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Not exactly a load of sweeping changes in the two lines that cost us against Derry - half back and half forwards.  Still no McGeeney at CHB. Ciaran McKeever would need to start proving himself in this position at this level.  Can't imagine Loughran having much impact at CHF.  Can we carry both him and Paddy McKeever in that line?  But good to see Micheal O'Rourke at corner forward.

are the McEntees defo off the panel?

Not a great game, but picked up a bit in second half.  Probably a fair result on the  day. Crokes will be deflated for letting it slip while Cross will be relieved to get another chance but annoyed with themselves for some of the chances they blew.  Cooper looked to me to be behind every score Crokes got, even though he didn't score heavily himself.  Cross will have to mark him much more closely out the field the next day.  What more can you say about McConville? Class goal and real leadership to eek out that equalising point with time just about up.  Hard to call a winner the next game, but Cross look to have more improvement in them.

You make a lot of sense Uladh.  There's a lack of effort and organisation about the team at the moment that doesn't augur well. There is a lot of improvement needed.  Players don't seem to be played in positions that play to their strengths. I would like to see Lavery kept at midfield, with Toal as a corner forward, Vernon as a half forward dropping back and Swift tried at full forward. Swift did fine at FF last year in a few league games but got absolutely no support. IMO neither he nor Vernon are anywhere near being midfielders.  O'Rourke and Toal have plenty of football in them, it's a matter of getting the best out of them. McGeeney has to come back to CHB. I don't see anyone else capable of playing this position at the moment. The two lines IMO at the moment needing major rethinking are the half backs and half forwards. The half forwards got caught in no man's land against Derry - neither defended from the front nor provided any support going forward.

Very poor display by Armagh, and would have expected much better from players and management. Derry played quite well, but were made to look good. Basically, they just had too much time and space on the ball.  If only it was a dour struggle after all! Hard to know where to start to make sense of it.  Derry were comfortable, too comfortable, all over the pitch for the full 70 mins (forget about the mini revival last 10 mins). Starting at the back the keeper had one of his poorer games, full backs did okay, but the half back line was nowhere - no cover at all for the full back line.  Far too open down the middle.  Looks like McGeeney is needed at CHB asap.  Didn't win enough of the breaking ball around the middle and the 2 midfielders didn't get any help here from the half backs and half forwards. Lavery started very well with a few good catches but faded badly.  Half forwards were as poor as the half backs.  In hindsight, Charlie Vernon was on a hiding to nothing up against Lockhart. Maybe wing forward is the best place to play him.  Paddy McKeever and Martin O'Rourke (first half) can have no excuses though.  Our full forwards didn't get out in front of their men and didn't win enough of the high ball, though to be fair the ball going in to them was very poor. I would like to have seen Toal and O'Rourke tried out, but i'm not sure they would have got much joy out of that Derry full back line which was excellent. 

Armagh have been here before at this time of the year and improved a lot later in the year.  At this stage they have to try to get back to the basics, starting with tightening up in the half back line.

Looks like we will do very well to avoid division 3.

Got a feeling Liverpool will win the return leg quite well.

 Liverpool 2 Barcelona 1

f**king hilarious alright 

C'mon the reds.

At last, a bit of good news this year. It's a no lose situation for all concerned imo. For people who actually follow Armagh football on a regular basis (i.e. excluding the thryronies on this thread), Marsden is well able to still hack it at county level. He was easily the best club footballer in Armagh last year and shone in the county final vs Crossmaglen, so he's back on merit - not sentiment.  He's kept himself in very good shape since leaving the county and he isn't that much older than the likes of spring chickens Dooher and Cavlan who seem to be still getting rave reviews from our neighbours. I think it's a boost, no more no less, given all the recent injury woes in the panel, and Marsden's presence and knowledge will greatly help the development of our younger forward talent coming through, the likes of Toal and O'Rourke (guys who already have AI underage medals but need to make the step up still).  They'll learn a hell of a lot from him in training and on matchdays.  I'm looking forward to the reception he'll get on his reappearance.

The ref gave a few very dubious frees to St Brigids either side of half time that resulted in 3 scores. I don't think they can have too many complaints.

About to give out now: you can get some meaningless English/Scottish third division result on RTE but not the final score in the junior or intermediate club all-Ireland, national broadcaster my arse...and I'm not even looking for highlights....

Exactly. RTE (and UTV/BBC i think) never give the results of the junior and intermediate games. Bit of a disgrace really.

As for Armagh Club football being strong.  Do any of our other esteeemed Armagh contributors wish to back Uladh up on this?  Im waiting!!!!

RRHF - how are you measuring the strength of the club scene?
Armagh currently mightn't be the strongest, compared to Derry for instance, but it's not exactly the weakest either. Armagh's senior club won Ulster and is in the AI final (4th time in 10 years). The intermediate club reached the Ulster final and only last narrowly after a replay to Coleraine, who are now in the AI final. Didn't fare as well on the junior front, though An Portmor didn't disgrace themselves, winning their first round game and then only narrowly beaten (while missing 2-3 key players).   

For fear of being tarred anti-Tyrone here, i agree with Uladh re. Mickey Harte's total disdain for the rules of the McKenna cup.  It's not just the McKenna cup though, he's been acting a law onto himself this past couple of years. This is just another case of Mickey trying to bend/break the rules to suit himself.  Inevitably the Tyrone posters here will defend his right to do so to the hilt, while some of the rest of us might view his actions in a slightly different light.

They both win too? Couldn't see the result on teletext earlier.Great weekend for Ulster clubs.

what does PC say in his article?

Looks like the Tyrone county board have shot themselves in the foot with this one, giving a lesson in how to alienate  your football and hurling panels, the GAA hierarchy and the GPA in one fell swoop.  Will be interesting to see if they stand their ground over the next while or start to backtrack.

Well done to Crossmaglen.  A lot of the personnel may have changed since their last AI final appearance, but the team ethic and style of play is still the same.  I thought the difference in the teams was the range of scoring options Cross had, with St Brigids over reliant on Dolan for frees.  McConville was key again, but the younger guys like McNamee, Hanrarry, McKenna and Murtagh did the business when needed. John McEntee had his best game (at any level) in a long time.  Donal Murtagh seems to have something about him as a manager - making the right switches at the right time.  Has the makings of a good  final, regardless of who gets through from the  replay.