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Steven Kernan has the ability alright, it's just that it hasn't really happened at senior level yet. He was a key player for the u21 team, no doubt about that.  As BC says he's there on potential, rather than perfromances to date.  He also is benefiting from the fact that Armagh are not exactly flush in the CHF department, esp. with John McEntee retiring.  In comparison, Gareth Swift has lost his place due to the no. of possible choices all vying for one of two places in midfield (he could have been tried at full forward though, which is another debate).  Armagh are short on playmakers, and that would be the reason i would think that SK is still there.  He is 24 though now, and has been on the panel a couple of years. He will know himself that he needs to start showing a bit more if/when he gets his chance in the championship.  Marsden would be my no.1 choice to start at CHF in the championship. He has the vision and passing ability to still play this  role, and play it well for Armagh.  I would like to see a half forward line with himself and Toal and Vernon either side (Vernon tried on the left as a counter to Aaron Kernan attacking down the right). Joe also has the option of keeping Martin O'Rourke in there in place of Vernon or Toal for the hard graft and a bit more balance. I think we're fooked if he decides to play Paddy McKeever AND Martin O'Rourke in the same line.

We've got WAN All-Ireland to our name but dont think we are respected enuf"

You're mixing us up with Derry. Do you not know your dialects?

Disappointed that Swift and O'Rourke the younger haven't made the squad. McKenna and Hanratty are worth a look also. Big O'Neill could be tried as option on the square - has more physically about him than Loughran. Not so sure about Paul Kernan at this stage but then again, Donaghy and McCreesh haven't done much to inspire. 

Great to get the win against a good, pacy, motivated Monaghan side.  best for Armagh were Forker, Vernon, Courtney, McKenna, and Hanratty.  I thought Vernon was immense in the second half - really pegged Monaghan back time and again with his surging runs.  Really played to his strengths as a footballer during that half.  McKenna coming on in the last 15 mins changed the game for us. Brilliant display from him also.  Dyas and Hanratty started to play really well in the last 15 too. This games was in the melting pot with 15 mins to go, even though the flow of the game was with Armagh from half way through the first half.  Monaghan lived off a lot let possession and were very clinical with it esp early on. Their no. 13 was a real live wire and looks a really good prospect.

This team has done well for a squad , destroyed in Clones by Down in their last year at minor.

Judas, are you sure that many of the current U21 squad were on that minor team? I can only think of Vernon. Could be wrong though.  Many of that minor team did go on to play in the u21 winning side of 2004 though. The backbone of the current U21s is made up of the 2005 Ulster minor winning side.  Let's hope they can go a bit further this time.

They have a good spread of players from last years team and have just won their 4th Munster in a row(maybe the Kingdom tide is slowly turning).  Their forwards are free flowing and can rack up high scores.  The likes of Cathrach Keane, Fintan Goold and Daniel Goulding are all excellent ball players with senior experience.  If they get a run going they could rip a team apart. 

BC1, looks like it's going to be a tough encounter then! Been hearing good things about Cork on this board over the past few weeks, so it will take a top performance from Armagh.  Having won 4 Munsters on the trot Cork will be keen to get an AI to show for their efforts.  The Armagh full back line has looked ropey the past 2 games i've seen them, but maybe Paul Kernan starting in there will help cut down the spaces - he looks like a good tight marking defender.  IMO the likes of Donaghy stands far too much off his opponent.

Will be interesting to see how the management accommodate David McKenna. On the evidence of last Sat he is too good to leave out.  If Lavery is fully fit it leaves a selection dilemma, though a nice problem to have.

Are you on the happy pills Orior?!

Will be interesting to see how Marsden performs at CHF. Definitely worth trying him there.  It's hard to see where the scores are going to come from though, especially with Armagh needing to win by 6 - that forward line looks very toothless indeed.  I'd be worried too that Philly Loughran will have a largely anonymous game again in that type of roaming forward role that gives him a licence to stay completely out of it.  Need a big game from McKeever (start praying) and O'Rourke needs to release the ball a lot sharper and accurately.  i don't know what Westmeath's half  forwards are like, but i'd be worried about young Donaghy at wing back.  Armagh can win this game, but by 6?   

Not a great performance by Armagh, but always had that bit extra to win.  Armagh simply had more about them as a team whereas Derry were overreliant on Lynch, who is an exceptional athlete and footballer. He looked exhausted near the end of the game, not surprising considering the ground he covered.  The game was tight enough for long periods, but Armagh's greater amount of possession should have been reflected on the scoreboard. As Benny and others have said, there were a number of attempts early on at walking the ball into the net, where a few handy points should have been taken (take your points and the goals will come etc). On the  plus side Armagh are extremely strong down the middle and the right lay off would have seen us rattle up a good few scores.  Derry didn't have the ammunition to punish Armagh at  the other end though. Another team may well do so.  Agree also with Uladh, re. Lavery and a few of the other lads taking too much out of the ball.  Lavery just about got away with it in this game as on a few occasions he put the runner through with a decent pass, but he will get caught against different opposition. Certainly at senior level he'll get embarrassed if he overdoes the toe tapping thing against tight opposition. Thought himself, Vernon, O'Neill,  Courtney all had decent games.  With McKenna to come in, the future midfield options for the senior team look very promising - some giant blokes among that lot who can play a bit of football.   As said, Dyas really impressed also. He has great potential to be a really classy wing back in the years ahead.

There isn't a star forward in this team which on the face of it is not good, but then again the team will be hard stopped if scores are contributed from a number of different players rather than relying on 1 or 2 for the majority.  Forker disappointed me in the first half but improved a good bit in the second - took some really good frees and from play.  O'Rourke is a very skillful player and can open up defences by running at them - but the end product could be better.  The other forwards didn't make much of an impression.  Hopefully Johnny Hanratty will offer more attacking threat if he's slotted in at the half forwards.  What's happened JJ Clarke? I can't believe he's not worth even a sub's appearance. Has he gone back that much since minor?

I'd be a bit worried about the management's team selection. The team lacked balance. Starting McKenna in  the half forwards was a strange one (a) he doesn't play this position and (b) only 3 days after the club final.  Vernon was out of position also at wing forward. Thought also they left Donaghy? on far too long on the blondie Derry forward - it was only by pure good forture that he wasn't taken to the cleaners on the scoreboard (as he was in play).

Hopefully they'll have learnt a bit more from this game (esp. on the attacking front) and be well prepared for a tough one against Monaghan in the final.

Brokencrossbar, i wasn't just referring to the rough stuff, more the general level of fouling that went on all over the pitch which left both games very stop start. It looked to me like Crokes weren't even bothered with trying to tackle at times, particularly up the pitch - just foul and stop the man coming out with the ball, stopping any degree of momentum being built up.  Maybe i'm niaive but it seemed a bit extreme.

Well, I had the oul radio on yesterday and thon man Tigger's a legend commentating on the Cross game. Get him on the tv.

Ah Christ, you've got to be taking the piss!  I was driving in the car listening to his 'commentary' of the Armagh Laois game and never heard the like of it.  It was (unintentionally) funny though.

The Sunday Sport coverage is pathetic.

How good must it feel to be from Crossmaglen!  A fully deserved win. I got the impression that no matter what Crokes threw at them, Cross would not be beaten and if they were to play a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th replay it would pretty much end the same way.  Crokes had their purple patches in both matches, but over the full hour in each they couldn't get the scores on the board to put Cross away.  In yesterday's game Cross got 13 scores (from a number of players) to Croke's 6. Says it all.  Thought the MOTM award to Aaron Kernan was generous. David McKenna was inspirational for Cross.

For all Croke's talk the past few weeks about Cross being a physical side, i thought that over the 2 games they (Crokes) were one of the most cynical sides i've seen in club football in recent years.

The lack of scoring power is a problem that won't be solved easily and Tony Kernan's absence won't help.  What has happened to Ronan Clarke's younger brother - he was the main forward on the minor team that won the Ulster title in 05 and should be starting to come good at this level.  That minor side of 05, though a good side, were not prolific in the scoring stakes either.

Having the U21 and senior matches on the same day would be farcical. With most counties the two panels are closely linked in terms of playing resources and management.  There's also the other matter of supporters getting to see both matches.  It would hurt both Derry and Armagh.

Our Seniors are playing Collegeland this Sunday in a Friendly. Does anybody have any directions to here from Newcastle/Dundrum? Also what standard of they of? Division 3?

Handy enough to find it.  Coming from Newry direction head through Armagh, for the Moy Road. Straight out the Moy road for about 6 miles until you come to Charlemont. Take a right in Charlemont and you are there - the football grounds are on the left. Collegeland are in division 3 and at junior level. They have 1 or 2 players in their ranks by the name of McGeary! 

Decent game and a relief to get a badly needed 2 points for Armagh. Bit of a mixed bag for Armagh, some excellent performances and some dreadful ones. Our big problem areas again were half backs and half forwards. Down started well, running in droves at the Armagh defence, but there wasn't a tackle being put in.  The game changed when Armagh started to close the spaces.  Martin O'Rourke very nearly single handledly lost us the game with his aimless solo running which slowed any momentum way down and meant that an on fire McDonnell wasn't getting the amount of ball he deserved.  He got 1-6 i think living off scraps and poor ball. Scary to think what he would have scored if the ball had gone in much sooner and of a much better quality. Paddy McKeever was missing in action again.  I think only the no. of injury induced subs meant he stayed on the pitch.  Phily Loughran was ineffective. I know he's just back from injury but this has been the story with him for a long time.  In contrast Lavery and Toner were excellent around the middle.  These young lads are 2 very good prospects. It was great to see young Toner gather the ball on his own goal line and bomb up the pitch, setting up the move for a McDonnell point.

Ciaran McKeever's a fool and a liability i'm sorry to say. His stupidity is something that will keep costing the team, and unfortunately he doesn't seem to be learning. As someone else has said here before about him, he doesn't understand the difference between being hard/dirty.

I think come championship the half back line will get sorted out but the half forwards is going to be the big problem yet again. We don't have a CHF and we can't afford to carry the likes of Paddy McKeever.  Peadar Toal will be in with a shout of a place.

What is with the injuries this year? Unbelievable amount of them each game and the likes of Swift, young O'Rourke, Donnelly, Toal etc never seem to be able to get a good run out without limping off?

Overall, an improvement on the Derry game, but then again Derry were a much better team than Down were yesterday.  Will need another significant improvement in order to beat Laois in Laois. If the U21 game isn't moved then it's hard to see that happening.

Great result and a timely boost!  Surprised to hear that Tony Kernan started - thought he would have been ruled out with all the other Cross players.  Very encouraging result given the difficulties facing the management this year in getting a settled team, and the absence of a few very useful Cross players.