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I thought they got £130m for Rio? Best deal ever. How come that didn't bail them out? I'll never kick a man when he's down. Leeds are down.

AZ is right, and the Rio deal represented a rare piece of good business - bought for £18 million and sold for a profit of £12 million after getting a couple of very good years out of him! Unfortunately £30 million ain't much good when the debt is £100 million plus.

[By the way, I'm not sure if these were the only two this happened to.]

A few things Rufus (for some reason I always had a soft spot for Leeds - I remember being bitterly disappointed when, in 1987, they lost the FA semi final as a 2nd div team to Coventry 3-2 AET)

1. If Leeds had qualified for the CL that season they lost to Cardiff, would they still have avoided the money problems?
2. Are you annoyed that Keane & co are still being paid by Leeds? Could they help Leeds out in this respect or is it down to the clubs they're playing with now?

1. Good question ONeill, the answer to which we will probably never know. The spending really was high wire stuff without a safety net. They finished fourth that year (and only the top three qualified), but it would have meant entering again at the qualifier stage if they had finished third. If memory serves me well, they needed to get to at least the second stage proper (second group stage) to cover the costs, and of course do that on a regular basis. Ridsdale appears to have had absolute blind faith that this would happen - which probably led to the phrase 'living the dream'.
2. Very much so - but not with the two Robbies - more with the muppets that allowed such a situation to happen. I'd say the two Robbies don't like to see the state that Leeds are in, but Leeds were desperate to sell to get any money. City and Spurs were only wiling to offer something like half the wages. The two Robbies were not keen to take a drop of 20/30k a week. Leeds were therefore that desperate that the only way out was to agree to keep paying the difference until the end of the contract. By the way, I'm not sure if these were the only two this happened to.

I thought the figure was closer to 12 and included among other Stephen McPhail

You're probably right SS - I do know that the two Robbies were the most high profile! Eirik Bakke as an example didn't want to leave the Club this season, despite Leeds desperation to get rid. This snippet from wikipedia gives an idea of what was happening;

Speculation continued as to Bakke's future when Eirik was left out of the Leeds United squad for the match against Sheffield Wednesday on 27 August 2006 with some in the press and supporters speculating that this was due to an imminent transfer. A Club statement was released on 29 August 2006 by Leeds United effectively stating that Eirik had played his last game in Leeds United colours [1]. Bakke however stated he would like to stay at the club [2] and still trained with the club, despite not playing, not wanting to return to playing in Norway at that point in time [3]. The problem occurred due to Eirik's £23,000 a week wages and £4,000 appearance fees[4] which were originally agreed during Ridsdale's "Living The Dream" yet the club could no longer afford to pay those type of wages in the league they were currently playing in. Leeds tried to resolve the issue attempting to meet the player half way so that Eirik could stay at the club on lesser wages but Bakke's agent stated he wanted ALL of his money[4]. The situation didn't look good for Eirik with current Leeds chairman Ken Bates already having terminated Seth Johnson's contract due to excessive wages since he has been at the club, determined to make Leeds a successful and profitable club once more.

.   

"WE ALL HATE LEEDS SCUM, WE ALL HATE LEEDS SCUM!!!"

Only jokin' tis a shame the way they have fallen so far. Clubs seem to be able to take the pish with Leeds though...if Kilgannon was sold 3/4 years ago...they'd have got more money!

Do they own Elland Rd??

No - it was sold like everything else! 

A few things Rufus (for some reason I always had a soft spot for Leeds - I remember being bitterly disappointed when, in 1987, they lost the FA semi final as a 2nd div team to Coventry 3-2 AET)

1. If Leeds had qualified for the CL that season they lost to Cardiff, would they still have avoided the money problems?
2. Are you annoyed that Keane & co are still being paid by Leeds? Could they help Leeds out in this respect or is it down to the clubs they're playing with now?

1. Good question ONeill, the answer to which we will probably never know. The spending really was high wire stuff without a safety net. They finished fourth that year (and only the top three qualified), but it would have meant entering again at the qualifier stage if they had finished third. If memory serves me well, they needed to get to at least the second stage proper (second group stage) to cover the costs, and of course do that on a regular basis. Ridsdale appears to have had absolute blind faith that this would happen - which probably led to the phrase 'living the dream'.
2. Very much so - but not with the two Robbies - more with the muppets that allowed such a situation to happen. I'd say the two Robbies don't like to see the state that Leeds are in, but Leeds were desperate to sell to get any money. City and Spurs were only wiling to offer something like half the wages. The two Robbies were not keen to take a drop of 20/30k a week. Leeds were therefore that desperate that the only way out was to agree to keep paying the difference until the end of the contract. By the way, I'm not sure if these were the only two this happened to.

Right - thought about putting this one in at the start of this season and then the notion went off me after a disastrous run! Was then encouraged to give it another rattle when someone put the thread up about which soccer team you supported/followed, and Leeds appeared to be joint third behind Liverpool and Manure. So there's a few other fools out there like Billys Boots and myself!

There used to be a show on Sky Sports called 'Hold the Back Page', in which three soccer journalists would sit with chairman Brian Woolnough, around a small table in a darkened room, and discuss in detail all the football issues of the day. It has been replaced in recent years by Jimmy Hill's Football Supplement.

Back in August/September 2001, Paddy Barclay of the Guardian (I think) stated on Hold the Back Page that Leeds were the next great thing. At the tail end of the preceding season, they had lost a Champions League Semi-Final to Valencia, with a young and ever increasing squad. Barclay's prediction looked about right as Leeds approached Christmas 2001 first in the Premiership. Indeed, if the results for the Calendar year of 2001 had been rattled up for every team, Leeds would have finished top by twelve clear points!

Early in the New Year of 2002, Leeds were away in the 3rd round of the FA Cup to Cardiff City, and despite taking the lead, lost two one. It was to be the start of a long downward spiral that continues to this day, with Leeds on the verge of a visit outside the top two leagues for the first time in their history!

After that Cup defeat, Leeds fell away badly in the league and missed out on the lucrative Champions League. The writing was now on the wall, as this Champions League qualification was essential to pay the huge debts. The following season they just stayed up by winning the second last game of the season away to Arsenal, but all the squad continued to be sold off, much of it for a pittance, and relegation followed the season after.

The first season in the Championship was mid table safety under a new manager, Kevin Blackwell, who had started the season with one professional player on the staff - Gary Kelly! The following season, last year, saw a push for promotion that resulted in a play off place and a heavy defeat to Watford in the play off final. This year the wheels have come off totally. Blackwell has got the sack and been replaced by Dennis Wise and Gus Poyet. That legend  Ken Bates has come in, bought the Club and invested sweet FA - the impression I get is that he wants to get another pay off like Chelsea, as there is no doubt there is great potential with Leeds, i.e. Leeds is the biggest city in the UK with only one football team.

Players are coming and going at an unbelievable rate. Leeds are about to acquire a new keeper who will be their fourth of the season but many of the players brought in are patently not good enough and as a consequence results continue to be dire. Throughout all of this, the family china continues to be sold off for a pittance,; witness Kilgallon's sale to Sheffield United for little over a million. It has reached the stage now where the assistant manager, Gus Poyet, looks like he might be in line for a run! 

This season was always going to be very difficult. This is the last season that Leeds continue to pay the wages (part of) of Robbie Keane and Robbie Fowler. However it coincided with the first season outside the Premiership without the parachute payments. Still and all, I could not see the season that is panning out, and for the first time I believe that they will probably go down, as they are currently six points off safety (effectively seven when goal difference is considered). The situation seems hopeless - new players are required and they need to get to know each other - unfortunately there is no time, and still no sign of replacements for problem positions such as centre half!

The future? Well I would be a bit more optimistic. If Leeds do go down, I feel they will have reached such a low that someone somewhere will decide enough is enough and hopefully Bates will be bought out by people prepared to invest in the squad. There is huge potential within Leeds for those looking to speculate and I would hope that that might happen. Unfortunately though, it is likely that Leeds will need to reach a new low before that happens!! 

Any other Leeds fans out there with a view?     

Armagh Abu, what about the golf club on the newry road, or the bar in armagh city's social club?

Or the Hole in the Wall, or the British Legion?

Still, it's never been the same since the demise of The Plough!!

Bring back the Plough!!

Never graced these bars with my company over the years!

As I said earlier - the Plough was great!! 

If that pool table could talk - Rafferotti (wearing his favourite pair of Tom Kite slacks) and myself went eighteen games in a row undefeated - 22nd December 1992! I believe some Plough veterans are now asking for that date to be made a holiday!

Armagh Abu, what about the golf club on the newry road, or the bar in armagh city's social club?

Or the Hole in the Wall, or the British Legion?   

Still, it's never been the same since the demise of The Plough!!   

Bring back the Plough!! 

I like the picture of the Dubs in Killarney - I didn't realise Carrauntoohill (and Beenkeragh) were so clearly visible from the ground. Was only there once, and there was low cloud cover,  so I couldn't get an idea of my bearings! 

The fan will get no sympathy from me, bollocks probably deserved it.

whats the address to that rufus?

I think this is the relevant thread Pint

http://www.munsterfans.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2004&PN=1

I'd love to know what was said by the fan.

Check out the munster fans forum, AZ - there's plenty of discussion on there, a lot of it it has to be said is contradictory!

As I stated earlier in the thread, I thought they were dirty players, not hard. There is a difference. The only thing hard about most people from Armagh (city) is that they are very hard to listen to. 

I hear you! 

I'm away to my bed!

Sorry would you prefer if i`d lied and said the Grimleys were fantastic footballers who won numerous awards while playing with Armagh, Ulster and Ireland.

In a thread about hard men?!?! Why would you do that? 

Is it true that the harps are so pre occupied with the Ogs, that they could'nt give a toss what else goes on?

Yes.

Coulter is not relevant to this thread as it is about so called hard men, and not about the more skilfull footballers ever to have played, like Benny and plenty of other Down and Armagh players as well, but as you brought it up, Down won an All-Ireland minor title in 1999, inspired by Benny Coulter, something Armagh never achieved at any level while the Grimleys were playing.
Just because my opinion on this matters differs to yours doesnt mean that I am wrong. This is a discussion forum. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

Then why did you choose to denigrate the Grimleys' football ability on a thread about hard men!!  

Benny Coulter was introduced by myself as a parallel to highlight how ludicrous some of your statements are, i.e. Armagh's lack of success in the Grimleys' era is somehow proof of their footballing ability!! Jesus wept!!

And by the way Boss - 'discussion' entitles me to comment on your opinion!  

['Other than your ignorance, you have nothing much to offer.']

I always thought the Grimleys were more dirty than hard. They never had much footballing ability other than their size.

Can I suggest that you limit your thinking then! I would expect such a suggestion from someone who knows nothing about football - take of your blinkers please and don't trot out the usual stereotypes! 

Nothing blinkered about my thinking, the Grimleys were 2 big lads who could catch a highball, nothing more. Other than their size and their brute force and ignorance they had nothing much to offer. One earlier poster said they were on the Compromise Rules team, that is the sort of football that suits their skills. Incidentally what did Armagh win while they were playing? Exactly!!!
This isnt one of my usual anti-Armagh posts. Its just my opinion on their limited footballing ability.

What have Down won since Benny Couter has been playing with them?

Exactly - it thus follows that Benny has limited footballing ability - according to your logic that is! 

Allow me to finish, by amending a line provided by your good self - 'Other than your ignorance, you have nothing much to offer.'