Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!
aye seen it and completely agree maybe i am being bitter now but it did seem a slightly one sided view!
thought j nesbit came across quite well!
Aye watched that myself last night and couldn't agree more...did you hear him in that taxi about driving thru the Falls Road and then when he got back to the Lower Shankill he said he felt much better now and i think I'll go the Rangers club for a pint...Out of all the celebs interviewed he def came across as the most bitter...
Quote from: BennyHarp on October 29, 2008, 12:10:42 PM
Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!
Seen it, Kielty and Jimmy Nesbitt both came across very well and spoke very candidly, I agree Charlie Lawson couldn't hide his true feelings, one quote from him which I picked up on as he came back into a loyalist area after leaving a republican area and he said 'its great to see the red white and blue above the NI supporters club' most celebrities in the public eye would be keen to disassociate themselves from that sort of tripe but not our Charlie.
He sickened me to be honest with his luvvie attitude to it all, he must have had a very tough upbringing during the 'troubles' in his Country Estate in Fermanagh.
Charlie Lawson seemed honest more than bitter, and if you turned his views around to the other side I'm sure alot of people watching would have similar feelings i.e. feeling more at home on the Falls road and likely to hit the Celtic supporters club for a pint. I think its just natural to what side you are from to feel a warm affiliation to certain emblems and colours moreso than others.
Nesbitt came across well but I sort of expected him to be like that given his history and I like Kielty when he isn't acting the clown. Courageous of him to speak about that on national TV.
Eamonn has turned into a real honey monster!
Quote from: BennyHarp on October 29, 2008, 12:10:42 PM
Not sure if this was shown earlier in Northern Ireland, but did anyone watch "The Troubles I've seen" shown last night on ITV with Eamonn Holmes talking to "celebrities" from Northern Ireland about the Troubles! Thought Paddy Kielty came across very well and Jim McDonald seemed liked the most bitter and twisted yet least affected by the troubles in his big house and campbell college education!
Perhaps you mean the most partisan of the contributors, but tbh, if Charlie Lawson was truly "bitter and twisted", I suspect he wouldn't have bothered appearing on such a programme in the first place, being seen having an amicable relationship with Eamonn Homes. Nor would he have accepted e.g. the role of a hunger striker in the play from a few years back, which he referred to.
Rather, what I took from his contribution was the simple exposition that he feels comfortable in his "own" community and uncomfortable in the "other" community. Now as an educated man, who has had the opportunity to escape such a mindset, I would certainly hope for better from him. But in truth - and he was nothing if not truthful - his reaction is no different from that of the majority of people in NI and, I'd guess, the overwhelming majority of people living in the Shankill and Falls on either side of the Peaceline [
sic].
And whilst I try hard to avoid the same "ghetto mentality" myself, I don't actually see his comments as being substantially different from e.g. those of President McAleese, when for instance she compared the upbringing and education of Protestant children in NI to the indoctrination of German children during the Third Reich. (And before anyone accuses me of "whataboutery", I quote this not in order to defend Lawson or condemn McAleese; rather, it is to put his views in context i.e. he and McAleese are only two sides of the same, sorry coin, and both should know better)
P.S. Agree that Kielty came across very impressively.
My point about Charlie Lawson is that - unless i missed something - he wasnt necessarily affected by the troubles in the way that for example paddy kielty was. So to see him drive down the shankill road and say it felt like home - then to show his actual home in the Enniskillen countryside, it all seemed a little bit put on to be honest rather than from the heart. He seemed to want to tell stories about how difficult the troubles where for him - but didnt actually have any true stories to tell. So he referred to type and came across as bitter and twisted because that looked like he was emotionally affected! Kielty was genuinely honest when asked if he could forgive the men who killed his father - but didnt look bitter about it.
Quote from: BennyHarp on October 29, 2008, 01:22:38 PM
My point about Charlie Lawson is that - unless i missed something - he wasnt necessarily affected by the troubles in the way that for example paddy kielty was. So to see him drive down the shankill road and say it felt like home - then to show his actual home in the Enniskillen countryside, it all seemed a little bit put on to be honest rather than from the heart. He seemed to want to tell stories about how difficult the troubles where for him - but didnt actually have any true stories to tell. So he referred to type and came across as bitter and twisted because that looked like he was emotionally affected! Kielty was genuinely honest when asked if he could forgive the men who killed his father - but didnt look bitter about it.
If by "not affected by the Troubles" you mean he didn't e.g. lose a father, like Kielty, or live in a Belfast ghetto like many another, then you are correct.
But surely that is missing the point. In fact, he was directly "affected" by the Troubles in that he was moved to associate with hardline loyalism, rather than e.g the more liberal and detached politics one might expect from someone with his background. Indeed, if he were totally "unaffected", he wouldn't give a stuff about NI at all; instead, he would happily live in a big house in England, partying with his "luvvie" friends from showbusiness etc.
By agreeing to be filmed in his big house in Fermanagh and Campbell College, then moving to his "spiritual home" on the Shankill Road, he was merely reflecting just how complicated the Troubles were, and why we shouldn't deal in simple stereotypes about "Ussuns" and "Themmuns". As such, I daresay hardline Republicanism has many in its ranks who come from privileged and educated backgrounds, too.
P.S. It occurs to me that if Lawson did come across as "bitter and twisted", it was not in his relation with those on the Falls etc. Rather, he was much more angry with his fellow Britons in England, who were totally ignorant of the situation in NI and treated him as "just another Paddy" when he first went across the water. It was they whom he wanted to punch, not Eamonn Holmes.
Not a fan of kielty in terms of comedy, but I think he did very well.
Obviously an awful topic for him but I was impressed by the way he handled it.
Enjoyed the programme to be honest, it was very well put together and i think the lads speaking on it came across well. I couldnt argue with any other posters comments on here either.
Isnt it great though in a few generations it all be pretty much dliuted all that pain and suffering. And hopefully a United Ireland will follow when the next boom comes around in the south and we can afford to regenerate the North ourselves.
I know where Lawson is coming from...of course anyone would feel more comfortable in their own area ( blue or green) i just got the impression from him that he was still a real true blue (if you know what i mean)
Quote from: illdecide on October 29, 2008, 02:15:23 PM
I know where Lawson is coming from...of course anyone would feel more comfortable in their own area ( blue or green) i just got the impression from him that he was still a real true blue (if you know what i mean)
I got the same impression aswell but its just the way he is, you could see right thorugh him. I used to be as bitter on the other side of coin so wouldnt hold it against him. Were all human.
meant to watch this but missed it, anyone know newhere you can catch it online?
It was a lot of nonsense, made for the UK audience. Didn't really cover any issues in great details.
Paddy and James spoke powerful well. As for "Jim", well I will go against the grain of everyone complaining about him. At least he was honest about his feeling, though from his background, how close to it all was he really?
QuoteAs for "Jim", well I will go against the grain of everyone complaining about him. At least he was honest about his feeling, though from his background, how close to it all was he really?
Ziggy, thats the point i'm trying to make about him!
Quote from: ziggysego on October 29, 2008, 03:06:17 PM
It was a lot of nonsense, made for the UK audience. Didn't really cover any issues in great details.
I'm glad someone said it. Pile of pish - I turned over to the Blame Game after five or ten minutes. Eammon Holmes of all people asking a bunch of privileged C-List celebs how they survived the Troubles when they all lived abroad anyway (apart from Paddy). Yeah right Eamo...
Quote from: Donagh on October 29, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 29, 2008, 03:06:17 PM
It was a lot of nonsense, made for the UK audience. Didn't really cover any issues in great details.
I'm glad someone said it. Pile of pish - I turned over to the Blame Game after five or ten minutes. Eammon Holmes of all people asking a bunch of privileged C-List celebs how they survived the Troubles when they all lived abroad anyway (apart from Paddy). Yeah right Eamo...
Now Donagh, in fairness Gloria Hunniford had a very tough time living in Hillsborough during the troubles i'll have you know.
Quote from: Donagh on October 29, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on October 29, 2008, 03:06:17 PM
It was a lot of nonsense, made for the UK audience. Didn't really cover any issues in great details.
I'm glad someone said it. Pile of pish - I turned over to the Blame Game after five or ten minutes.
So you condemn it on the basis of "five or ten minutes" viewing?
Quote from: Donagh on October 29, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
Eammon Holmes of all people
I actually missed the first few minutes(!), where I believe it was disclosed that Eamonn's family was forced out of their home by sectarian violence. Of all people.
Quote from: Donagh on October 29, 2008, 03:49:54 PM
a bunch of privileged C-List celebs how they survived the Troubles when they all lived abroad anyway (apart from Paddy). Yeah right Eamo...
I assume by those "C-List celebs living abroad" you include the following:
Gloria Hunniford. As a reporter on local television, one of her earliest stories was to go to the scene of the Abercorn Restaurant*, where terrorists planted a no-warning bomb in a busy restaurant, thereby murdering two people and maiming 130 other men, women and children. Presumably you missed her describing seeing womens tights and hangbags in the debris. And although she didn't mention it last night, you will be aware that by marrying someone from "the other side" in the Portadown of the 1960's, she was exposed to all sorts of sectarianism?
James Nesbitt. Described how his father went into town one afternoon, parked his car in a public car park, left the scene only to hear the car next to it explode.
Andrea Catherwood. Daughter of one of NI's leading and most prominent industrialists who as such, was considered a "legitimate target" by the IRA, and required armed protection. Gave the impression (it wasn't quite clear) that her family moved home for a safer location due to this. Lived in NI from her birth in 1967 until going to University in Manchester to study law in the mid 1980's. On graduating, returned to NI to work as a journalist for UTV. Since then, has reported from other trouble spots around the world, including:
"In November 2001 she was the first British journalist into Mazari Sharif after the Northern Alliance captured the city from Taliban forces. She produced a number of reports, which received wide coverage in the British press. Catherwood was reporting from inside the prison at the beginning of the Taliban prisoners uprising when one exploded a concealed grenade that killed five people. Catherwood was injured in the knee by shrapnel"What the Hell would people like that know about the Troubles, eh?
* - Abercorn Restaurant
On 4 March 1972 a bomb exploded in the Abercorn Restaurant in central Belfast killing two people and injuring over 130; many of the injured lost limbs. The nature of the bombing and the extent of the injuries suffered meant that the attack left a lasting impression on the public in Northern Ireland. No paramilitary organisation claimed responsibility but it is widely accepted that the Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA) was responsible for the bombing.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/glossary.htm
Thats right they all deserve medals for their heroic acts of gallantry during the troubles, can't have been easy for them.
I know, lets have a march from Havelock House to Ormeau Avenue for all these poor celebs who endured so much during the troubles, Jimmy Nesbitt can lead the parade driving his old fellas car that was 'nearly' blown up and Gloria can report on the parade drawing on her disturbing experiences.
Donagh can organise a protest at Donegall Pass against the brave Celebs of Ulsters third television. Sunday would be a great day for it sure.
The only person who merits any respect after the programme is Kielty, first hand experiences and an example to all in society of how to conduct themselves when discussing the 'conflict' without including conjecture and anecdotal evidence about so called celebs brushes with death.
Quote from: Doogie Browser on October 29, 2008, 04:54:48 PM
Thats right they all deserve medals for their heroic acts of gallantry during the troubles, can't have been easy for them.
I know, lets have a march from Havelock House to Ormeau Avenue for all these poor celebs who endured so much during the troubles, Jimmy Nesbitt can lead the parade driving his old fellas car that was 'nearly' blown up and Gloria can report on the parade drawing on her disturbing experiences.
Donagh can organise a protest at Donegall Pass against the brave Celebs of Ulsters third television. Sunday would be a great day for it sure.
The only person who merits any respect after the programme is Kielty, first hand experiences and an example to all in society of how to conduct themselves when discussing the 'conflict' without including conjecture and anecdotal evidence about so called celebs brushes with death.
Nobody is suggesting that any of them "deserve medals" for their experiences. Nor is anyone suggesting that any of them suffered so badly as Kielty, who has received virtually universal praise for the exemplary way he is dealing with his hurt.
But Donagh sneeringly suggested that the other individuals interviewed had no right to comment, since they were isolated from the Troubles, or even overseas entirely. Whereas, had he watched more than "the first five or ten minutes", he would have seen that each was affected to a greater or lesser extent, due to their having been born and brought up in NI during the Troubles, and also in some cases having worked as news reporters covering the Troubles.
This is blatant prejudice (literally) on his part, and could seriously mislead other posters who didn't actually see the programme. Like him.
Indeed, if you were to take Donagh's principle to its logical conclusion, no-one who wasn't born and brought up in the very heart of the Troubles is "qualified" to comment on them. Which would include half the Northern posters on this Board and pretty much all of the Southern posters.
Anyhow, the reason I missed the opening minutes was when I saw the write-up in the TV Guide, I assumed (like Donagh?), that it would just be Eamonn Holmes (whom I don't much like normally), chatting to a few of his NI "luvvie" mates, about how much they all suffered in the Troubles, for the titillation of his English "luvvie" mates etc.
However, when I saw that there was bugger-all else on, I gave it a chance. And I'm glad I did, since if it was hardly Pullitzer-Prize winning stuff, it was still interesting and thought-provoking, and a useful reminder to the rest of the UK of what things were like here, at a time when they need little or no excuse to forget about the whole place. And if it took "C List Celebrities" to attract their attention (indeed to get the programme made in the first place, I suspect), it was hardly any worse for that, since they each had an interesting story to tell.
Of course, that's only my opinion. Perhaps I might be better guided by someone whose views aren't contaminated or distorted by actually watching the programme... ::)
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 01:45:38 PM
...Britons in England,....treated him as "just another Paddy" when he first went across the water. It was they whom he wanted to punch
What did the effin eejit expect. He comes from Co Fermanagh,Ireland. ;D
Ye Unionists must have some awful bad schools . :-\
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 05:33:02 PM
And I'm glad I did, since if it was hardly Pullitzer-Prize winning stuff, it was still interesting and thought-provoking,
Eh? What original thoughts did it provoke?
Quote from: ONeill on October 29, 2008, 07:16:41 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on October 29, 2008, 05:33:02 PM
And I'm glad I did, since if it was hardly Pullitzer-Prize winning stuff, it was still interesting and thought-provoking,
Eh? What original thoughts did it provoke?
The Falls Road is a scary place. You'd be better off with a pint in the Rangers Supporters Club
QuoteEh? What original thoughts did it provoke?
Perhaps not thought provoking for those of us bought up in northern ireland, but you have to remember that it was aimed mostly at the English TV audience and speaking to a few of my work colleagues today it certaintly was thought provoking, for the simple fact that most of them never think about it!
remember reading somewhere that he got c-celebs to do it as most people would watch it. us ordinary people would not be able to potray ourselves well on TV 'like' and 'so i was' and 'heres bes me' all over the place.
as for the blame game Donagh, it's crap. the lad from the New lodge is rubbish