The Overachievers v Underachievers
1st Round v more underachievers
Semi-final v Messers/Nonachievers
Final v A BIG GUN.
Easy ::)
Am I wrong? But it seems that Down have been in the Preliminary round more times than any other county in the last few years. And is it not a statistic often quoted that no county has ever won Ulster when starting from the Preliminary round?
Armagh won it a few years ago.
Class teams like Armagh and Cavan have won Ulster from the preliminary round, can't see it happening next year though.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 09, 2008, 12:04:54 AM
Class teams like Armagh and Cavan have won Ulster from the preliminary round, can't see it happening next year though.
When did Cavan do it? I thought that that recent one by Armagh was the first time.
Fermanagh by 10 points
So who was in the preliminary round this century?
2009 Fermanagh v. Down
2008 Antrim v. Cavan
2007 Cavan v. Down
2006 Down v. Cavan
2005 Armagh v. Fermanagh (Armagh win championship)
2004 Tyrone v. Derry
2003 Monaghan v. Armagh
2002 Donegal v. Cavan
2001 Donegal v. Fermanagh
2000 Monaghan v. Fermanagh
In the last 4 years Down and Cavan have been there 3 times each !!
In the last decade.....
Cavan 4
Fermanagh 4
Down 3
Monaghan 2
Armagh 2
Donegal 2
Tyrone 1
Derry 1
Antrim 1
QuoteWhen did Cavan do it?
1945 I think
References to Armagh being the first were generally lazy.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 09, 2008, 12:21:57 AM
QuoteWhen did Cavan do it?
1945 I think
References to Armagh being the first were generally lazy.
Spot on armaghniac 8) http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0723/armagh.html (http://www.rte.ie/sport/2005/0723/armagh.html)
The team that cant score v the team that cant defend. Then Cavan in the next round.
i know its a long way away, but would any of ya's hazard a guess as to what date this match will be on??
Quote from: Down Gael on October 09, 2008, 10:23:22 AM
The team that cant score v the team that cant defend. Then Cavan in the next round.
So it's the team that can't score v the team that can't defend, playing in the next round against the the team that simply just can't.
bad draw for Fermanagh in my eyes. need to win 3 games to reach an Ulster Final, never mind win it. never happened before and unless we can come across a prodigy of a full forward in the next 6 months we'll struggle. after last year it would be awful to go into the back door in one of the first weekends of the new championship season.
Quote from: bridgegael on October 09, 2008, 11:05:25 AM
i know its a long way away, but would any of ya's hazard a guess as to what date this match will be on??
10th or 17th of May would be my guess.
My only concern is who do Down meet in the Ulster Semi Final?
I dont agree with the format of preliminary round.
It worked out relatively ok this year as ulster champions or last years preliminary round teams arent in.
The draw for the preliminary should be made excluding the above 3 teams, this year being, Antrim, Cavan and Armagh.
Although saying that, i looked forward to the Down Cavan matches, the championship started early for us and they were usually quit entertaining!
Down to win Ulster this year (the only team i can't see us beating is Fermanagh as we're likely to underestimate them and go out and not play like we did against Wexford)
Good Luck Down.
Would love to see a Down, Derry Ulster final!
Quote from: Down Gael on October 09, 2008, 01:22:02 PM
My only concern is who do Down meet in the Ulster Semi Final?
That's it. get it started good and early.
Down should really be All Ireland champions. Sure they are the only team this year to beat Tyrone.
You boys getting Shane King out of retirement for this one??
Paddy O'Rourke used Shane King against Fermanagh a few years ago to good effect. The Fermanagh players seemed more interested in getting a few digs at King that winning the game. It might work again!
Quote from: amallon on October 09, 2008, 02:04:12 PM
Paddy O'Rourke used Shane King against Fermanagh a few years ago to good effect. The Fermanagh players seemed more interested in getting a few digs at King that winning the game. It might work again!
As far as i mind, we should have won that game if we would have played football, instead of trying to have a go at
Judas Shane :P.
Only messsing about Shane, he could have played for Tyrone, which would have been alot worse
McCluskey got sent off that day too.
I think the year was 2003 and it was Mickey Linden's last game for Down.
Quote from: amallon on October 09, 2008, 02:30:33 PM
I think the year was 2003 and it was Mickey Linden's last game for Down.
It was 2003, but Mickey made an appearance in the drawn Ulster final. 9 points up and instead of throwing on an extra midfielder or defender Paddy put on a forward. Then again if Canavan hadnt gone down like he had been taken out by a sniper we would have won that game easily.
Still every cloud has a silver lining, look who lost the AIF in 2003 ;)
Preliminary round is crap...people are stuck in the middle of exams in May and so won't be able to drive up and down...and our crappy TV service has BBC1 NI but not BBC2 NI...so all I can do is pray RTE will televise it :'( :'( :'(
i know exactly what you mean about exams downgirl, but surely like i you will sacrifice one day of study to see benny in action? mc grath vs gordon will be an excellent contest, with big dan shading it
If I can then yea I will defo go up for it...but it's a long drive from Cork to Fermanagh!!!! And yes seeing Benny in action is definitely a must!!! :D
Not entirely unhappy with the draw. Will give us a clear indication of where we are. Sometimes we really raise our game against favourites like Armagh and that, but this should tell us a lot about the belief and where the team want to go.
Right about the midfield dodgy it could be a cracker. Mark Murphy should hold his place as well in there and hopefully build on some real promising displays this year.
What's the word on Ambrose? Will he make a full recovery and play for the county again?
Decent draw for both counties. I'm sure both counties will fancy their chances of getting to an Ulster final having avoided Armagh, Tyrone and Derry on the other side of the draw. I know history means very little but Fermanagh have a poor record against Down in the Ulster championship. Both teams are very evenly matched though. It's a hard one to call and I suppose we'll just have to see how things go in the NFL before any match predictions are made.
Quote from: FermPundit on October 09, 2008, 08:19:15 PM
Decent draw for both counties. I'm sure both counties will fancy their chances of getting to an Ulster final having avoided Armagh, Tyrone and Derry on the other side of the draw. I know history means very little but Fermanagh have a poor record against Down in the Ulster championship. Both teams are very evenly matched though. It's a hard one to call and I suppose we'll just have to see how things go in the NFL before any match predictions are made.
In fairness lads this quote shows how far Down have slipped down the pecking order. In all my days watching Down Fermanagh were never a threat.....Ferm Pundit says both teams are evenly matched and he is 100% correct....long gone are the days when we were evenly matched with Kerry and Dublin. We will not get it easy against Fermanagh in this game but I really do think that Ross and co will have learnt an enormous amount from the 2008 campaign...we need to build on it.....good luck lads we'll all be behind yiz.
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 09, 2008, 08:36:34 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on October 09, 2008, 08:19:15 PM
Decent draw for both counties. I'm sure both counties will fancy their chances of getting to an Ulster final having avoided Armagh, Tyrone and Derry on the other side of the draw. I know history means very little but Fermanagh have a poor record against Down in the Ulster championship. Both teams are very evenly matched though. It's a hard one to call and I suppose we'll just have to see how things go in the NFL before any match predictions are made.
In fairness lads this quote shows how far Down have slipped down the pecking order. In all my days watching Down Fermanagh were never a threat.....Ferm Pundit says both teams are evenly matched and he is 100% correct....long gone are the days when we were evenly matched with Kerry and Dublin. We will not get it easy against Fermanagh in this game but I really do think that Ross and co will have learnt an enormous amount from the 2008 campaign...we need to build on it.....good luck lads we'll all be behind yiz.
Do you think Down will be at a disadvantage playing Division 3 football next season? From a Fermanagh perspective we would like to think that playing harder more competitive football in Division 2 will stand to us come the summer time.
Would love to see Fermanagh win an Ulster title, hate being the County to deny them, but what must be must be
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 09, 2008, 08:36:34 PM
In fairness lads this quote shows how far Down have slipped down the pecking order. In all my days watching Down Fermanagh were never a threat.....Ferm Pundit says both teams are evenly matched and he is 100% correct....long gone are the days when we were evenly matched with Kerry and Dublin. We will not get it easy against Fermanagh in this game but I really do think that Ross and co will have learnt an enormous amount from the 2008 campaign...we need to build on it.....good luck lads we'll all be behind yiz.
5 Sams, much as I hate to say this, Kerry and Dublin are no longer the top teams in the country. Kerry have shown time and again that they dont have the stomach for Ulster teams time and again they come up short. Yes they have some of the finest footballers in the country, but they play as individuals not as a team. Dublin are nothing but hype. Media hype, hype from the hill, hype from Pillar, hype from wherever. They have no substance. No All Irelands in 13 years and meaningless provincial titles with facile victories over the likes of Louth and Wexford count for nothing on the third Sunday in September.
Down in a way are a bit like Dublin in the fact that they havent won anything since the mid 90s, but Down beat Tyrone in this years Championship, in fact only for some ludicrous refereeing decisions we would have beat them out the gate in both games. You can make all the excuses you want for this Tyrone team, but Down were a superior side over 2 games and extra time. Tyrone had a lot of luck on their way to this years All Ireland, the extra weeks rest before the Dublin game being their biggest break.
Now lets look at Fermanagh, they play the worst brand of football in the country, they make Armagh look positive. They couldnt score in the Ballymac at grab a granny night and they make the Down side look like giants. Although Down will be playing their football in Division 3 next year, I believe they are a vastly superior side to Fermanagh. Down will beat Fermanagh next may with a bit to spare. They wont win Ulster, but they are well capable of making the quarter finals of the All ireland in 2009.
Quote from: Pangurban on October 09, 2008, 10:31:13 PM
Would love to see Fermanagh win an Ulster title, hate being the County to deny them, but what must be must be
fermanagh have no Ulster or All Ireland wins for a reason. They will never win an Ulster title playing the brand of football that they play. First things first and Fermangh havent copped on to this yet, but to win anything, even an U12 game you must outscore your opponents. In fact you must score.
Down Gael, first things first means that you start at the back and not the front. We have had a woeful defence for most of the last 14 years, and the wheels came off completely against Wexford at Croke Park this summer. Until we get things right there, we are going nowhere.
I think we are capable of improving, but Fermanagh's defence has been far better than anything we could field for several seasons now. They would certainly have won the Ulster title this year if they had a reliable free-taker.
However, the preliminary round game could go either way and the winners will have an excellent chance of getting to the Ulster final in 2009. If we avoid last year's injuries, and produce at least two new defenders, we are in with a shout.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on October 10, 2008, 12:08:43 AM
... We have had a woeful defence for most of the last 14 years, and the wheels came off completely against Wexford at Croke Park this summer. Until we get things right there, we are going nowhere.
I disagree, I think the wheels came off everywhere else against Wexford, and your defence were left with an impossible brief.
Nowhere functioned for you that day, and it's a cop-out to lay it all at the defence's door.
FoSB, you might have a point if the display at Croke Park had not been exactly in line with almost every other Down performance in 2008. We managed one clean sheet in seven league games, and one in six championship matches. Most of the goals were similar to those in the Wexford game - simple high balls down the middle which we could not deal with.
I agree that the entire team must share responsibility, but for most of the season we had an outstanding midfield and a promising attack.
Whether we pulled extra players back, or went man to man, our defence never really looked up to the job. It has to be strengthened, and we are not without hope there.
If Howard, Turley and Carr keep developing, if Cole and Doyle recover fully from injury, and new faces like Duffin and Garvey take their chance, we will be heading in the right direction, even if we have a long way to go.
However, we were badly hampered at Croke Park because big Dan, for really the only time all season, was below par after the business over his on/off suspension. He will be back to his best in 2009, and I only hope Ambrose is fit to join him.
With only 4 weeks to go, I've thought it was time to revisit this thread.
From a Fermanagh perspective, we have had a very poor league campaign. Confidence is low and there isn't much optimism within the county for the forthcoming Ulster Championship. With promotion to Division 2 and with their U21's progressing to the All Ireland final, things are looking rather rosy in the Mourne county. Although things haven't gone well this year for Fermanagh, if we can get a few key personnel back in the next few weeks, I would be hopeful that we can give Down a decent game. We also have home advantage which has to mean something. A victory against Down and the poor league campaign will all be forgotten about. How are Down folk feeling about this game?
Cagey.
Malachy O'Rourke would be respected and you were much better organised than us in the last league game last year.Also, I have no great memories of going to Fermanagh in the championship - the worst was after lifting the National League in 83 , and our current minor manager telling supporters from the presentation box that he would see us all here in September, and 2 weeks later we were out on our holes .However FP is right that things are pretty good in Down- today was vintage - and it might take a Saturday night replay at Parc Esler , but we should get through
Quote from: Dubh driocht on April 18, 2009, 08:40:48 PM
Cagey.
Malachy O'Rourke would be respected and you were much better organised than us in the last league game last year.Also, I have no great memories of going to Fermanagh in the championship - the worst was after lifting the National League in 83 , and our current minor manager telling supporters from the presentation box that he would see us all here in September, and 2 weeks later we were out on our holes .However FP is right that things are pretty good in Down- today was vintage - and it might take a Saturday night replay at Parc Esler , but we should get through
That's a good point you made about Malachy O'Rourke. Tactically, Malachy is one of the best managers around. He'll set up this Fermanagh team to be highly defensive. I know we'll be criticised for it, but when you're struggling for decent forwards there aren't many alternatives. O'Rourke has mentioned in the local press that one or two new faces might be brought into the squad in the next weeks. Hopefully we'll unearth a gem of a forward, but it's very unlikely.
4 weeks until the big day and we have an AIF to look forward to in the mean time. Anyone like to take a stab at Downs starting 15.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on April 18, 2009, 11:16:20 PM
4 weeks until the big day and we have an AIF to look forward to in the mean time. Anyone like to take a stab at Downs starting 15.
My choice of a starting XV at the moment:
B.McVeigh
C.McGovern
P.Turley
L.Howard
A.Carr
K.McKernan
P.Murphy
P.Fitzpatrick
D.Gordon
D.Hughes
S.Kearney
A.Rogers
P.McComiskey
B.Coulter
R.Murtagh
My team at moment would be:
1 B McVeigh
2 L Howard
3 C Garvey
4 D Rafferty
5 A Carr
6 D Rooney
7 P Murphy
8 P Fitzpatrick
9 D Gordon
10 A Rodgers
11 K McKernan
12 D Hughes
13 P McComiskey
14 B Coulter
15 R Murtagh
My money's on Down, think Fermanagh went through a purple patch last year like they did in 2004, it'll be 2012 again when they come up trumps! :-* Na all joking aside, think Down might actually win that side of the draw outright and find themselves in an Ulster Final, Fermanaghs form of late has been relatively poor with their league campaign and their less than impressive exit to last years championship. I think they peaked last year with promotion and an Ulster Final.
Quote from: DownFanatic on April 19, 2009, 02:21:09 AM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on April 18, 2009, 11:16:20 PM
4 weeks until the big day and we have an AIF to look forward to in the mean time. Anyone like to take a stab at Downs starting 15.
My choice of a starting XV at the moment:
B.McVeigh
C.McGovern
P.Turley
L.Howard
A.Carr
K.McKernan
P.Murphy
P.Fitzpatrick
D.Gordon
D.Hughes
S.Kearney
A.Rogers
P.McComiskey
B.Coulter
R.Murtagh
any word on how hes doing?
Well we should have McCluskey back which will help.
The new rules not being introduced will help us. Should mean that McGrath will now play a full 70 minutes.
Daryl Keenan has a good addition this year and we may see Tom Brewster returning to the panel soon which will help.
Shane O'Brien has played well this year as well and can hit a free. But a fully fit Ciaran O'Reilly would really help in that department.
Rory Foy has been another option to be unearthed in defence and the possibility of playing McCluskey at CHF may be explored
Confidence in Down will be high after winning promorion and the current success of their U-21's.
Gordon has not played much for Down this year, so to get promoted without a key man like him playing says alot for them.
Still would not be convinced about the down defence and in particular there full back line.
I cannot believe i am typing this but McBarron could make a nuisance of himself at Full forward. If Owens was only fit for a substitute
appearance, then he could do damage at Full forward in the last 20.
From the talk of some of the Down folk here, they would not think and Ross and DJ are the dream ticket.
But with Paddy Tally training this team, they will be flying come mid May
McCluskey returns to Fermanagh fold
Fermanagh's Ulster SFC hopes have been given a massive lift with the return of star defender Ryan McCluskey to the fold.
The Enniskillen Gaels clubman missed the ill-fated league campaign due to his commitments with Irish League First Division outfit Portadown, but is now back training with Fermanagh one night a week as the soccer season nears it climax, and will be devoting all his time to GAA when the season ends next month.
In a further boost for manager Malachy O'Rourke, former All-Star full back Barry Owens has resumed light training, but may not be ready for the Ulster SFC opener against Down in three weeks' time.
Owens suffered a cruciate ligament injury in last year's Ulster SFC final replay defeat to Armagh and Fermanagh captain Martin McGrath explained: "Barry is doing a bit there now, just working his way back.
"Hopefully, come the championship, he will be there or thereabouts. It is taking time but he'll be a good addition when he's back.
"Ryan is back with us now. He is just finishing off with the soccer at the minute. They (Portadown) are at the top of the table, chasing promotion. He is back working with us, though. It is a new face back in training and that freshens things up as well."
Great news to see Clucker back in the Fermanagh squad. His experience will be a reall bonus against Down. By the looks of the above article it doesn't look like Barry Owens will be fit for the Championship but he does appear to be on the right road to recovery. There's a full round of club fixtures tomorrow night. Hopefully we don't pick up any more injuries.
Good to see Clucker back. But Owens, Womble and McCabe are looking unlikely to be back.
You're right FP. We need to ensure Clucker and Mcgrath are fit for the Down match if we are to have any chance.
After all the rotating in the McKenna Cup and League we have no more of a view of what the team is likely to be. Aside from one or two of Daryl K, O'Brien and Carson starting it's probably going to be a similar team to last year's championship (minus the aforementioned players)
It doesn't really have the makings of a classic this one....
For the love of God, don't be putting Fermanagh on the TV again this year. I'd rather watch re-runs of the Antiques Roadshow outtakes.
Quote from: Caid on April 28, 2009, 11:09:10 PM
Good to see Clucker back. But Owens, Womble and McCabe are looking unlikely to be back.
You're right FP. We need to ensure Clucker and Mcgrath are fit for the Down match if we are to have any chance.
After all the rotating in the McKenna Cup and League we have no more of a view of what the team is likely to be. Aside from one or two of Daryl K, O'Brien and Carson starting it's probably going to be a similar team to last year's championship (minus the aforementioned players)
It doesn't really have the makings of a classic this one....
I can't see too many changes from last year's team as well. Hopefully Marty will start at midfield allowing Ryan Carson to move to full forward. He showed well against Armagh in the league in this position so he could cause the Down full back line one or two problems.
Quote from: ONeill on April 28, 2009, 11:11:40 PM
For the love of God, don't be putting Fermanagh on the TV again this year. I'd rather watch re-runs of the Antiques Roadshow outtakes.
Now don't be silly, O'Neill. We all know that secretly you're a big fan of Fermanagh football and their style of play. Nothing would make you prouder than seeing the Erne county winning its first ever Ulster title ;)
jesus fermanagh lads dont see where all the pessimisim is coming from, i would say there will be little more than a point or 2 in it either way, both sides seem in a similar position, fermanagh playing higher class of opposition and demoted, down playing 'lower' opposition and promoted, neither with a settled team, both with injuries and imho the fermanagh 15 that finished the league are at least as good as the down 15.... so it must be mind games from the fermanagh lads!!
Yeah I would have Fermanagh to win this by three as it stands.
Quote from: Mid Down Gael on April 19, 2009, 12:16:22 PM
My team at moment would be:
1 B McVeigh
2 L Howard
3 C Garvey
4 D Rafferty
5 A Carr
6 D Rooney
7 P Murphy
8 P Fitzpatrick
9 D Gordon
10 A Rodgers
11 K McKernan
12 D Hughes
13 P McComiskey
14 B Coulter
15 R Murtagh
How about:
McVeigh
Cole
Garvey
Howard
Murphy
Turley
Duffin or Rafferty
Gordon
Fitzpatrick
Maginn
Rodges
Hughes
McComiskey
Coulter
Carr (playing as a 3rd midfielder)
I think Leo's team is pretty close to our strongest line-up, although we should probably have experimented with Carr as a third midfielder during the league and not left it until the championship. I also think that starting Fitzpatrick at midfield in his championship debut would be a big gamble. Kearney was average against Tipperary but had a reasonable league, so it might make more sense to keep him beside Dan and move Fitzpatrick to CHF.
I'd love to see Ambrose in there, but, as he could not manage even ten minutes against Tipp, he must be more likely to come off the bench. Although Maginn has been excellent for the u21s, he looked lightweight during his senior games so far. I would be more inclined to take a chance on Michael Magee, who is not only a decent size but gives us a left-sided option from both frees and play, with Hughes as the other wing forwrd.
However, given his recent selections, I would not be surprised if Ross starts McGovern ahead of Cole at corner back and finds a place for Murtagh up front. I don't think either of those guys will let anyone down, but their league form was mixed at best.
Depending on how things go in the u21 final, Murney and O'Reilly could also be in the shake-up. Ireland is another possibility, as we are short of left-footers and he was one of the few who did well against Tipp.
I`ll go with
McVeigh
Cole, Garvey, Howard.
Carr, Murphy, Duffin.
Fitzpatrick, Gordon.
Maginn, Coulter, Ireland.
Hughes, McComiskey, J O`Reilly
I think Coulter will be wasted in the full forward line if we aren't getting a good supply of ball into him and Maginn, O`Reilly and Hughes would get great supply from him, with McComiskey and O`Reilly playing as a 2 man full forward line. I haven't included any of the injured players as we have shown that throwing players into big games while they aren't fully recovered isn't the answer.
Failing that I would just put out the U21 team with Coulter and Gordon included. They have shown they can shoot from distance, unlike most of the senior panel and are not afraid of the likes of Armagh and Tyrone.
I see the match is live on RTE 3.30pm. Hopefully be a decent match or Joe Brolly (although i like him) will take great delight in slating both teams. The 1st round game The Winners v Cavan is also on live RTE 7pm sat 6th June.
If Fitzpatrick continues playin the way he is for the U21s and has a great final, himself + Dan Gordon in midfield on 17th May will be a great pairing. He's still young but think he's levelheaded, experienced and strong enough to make the transition to senior championship football. Think we will win this one by 3-4 points, Down will not play like they did against Tipp last week...massive difference in a Division 3 League Final in front of 300 in Longford and championship football in Brewster Park with an attendance in the region of 15-18000!
Heard that the match will be all-ticket.
Quote from: downgirl on October 09, 2008, 07:25:50 PM
Preliminary round is crap...people are stuck in the middle of exams in May and so won't be able to drive up and down...and our crappy TV service has BBC1 NI but not BBC2 NI...so all I can do is pray RTE will televise it :'( :'( :'(
Live on RTE for those with misplaced loyalty :P
Not sure whats gonna happen. I don't think Fermanaghs league form is to be unduly worried about - lot of experimentation, and just the wrong side of a few close results. Nothing expected going into championship, perfect for fermanagh. Havent seen much of down - very bad at the back against tipp who always seemed to have a free man on the overlap, but they've a few to bring back, and if they're let play they certainly will. Think they still lack the quality through the team though, and hopefully fermanagh can contain the big threats.
I'm expecting a good game though, contrary to the opinions of those who swiftly jumped off the bandwagon after the defeat by kildare last yr.
Quote from: haranguerer on April 30, 2009, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: downgirl on October 09, 2008, 07:25:50 PM
Preliminary round is crap...people are stuck in the middle of exams in May and so won't be able to drive up and down...and our crappy TV service has BBC1 NI but not BBC2 NI...so all I can do is pray RTE will televise it :'( :'( :'(
Live on RTE for those with misplaced loyalty :P
Not sure whats gonna happen. I don't think Fermanaghs league form is to be unduly worried about - lot of experimentation, and just the wrong side of a few close results. Nothing expected going into championship, perfect for fermanagh. Havent seen much of down - very bad at the back against tipp who always seemed to have a free man on the overlap, but they've a few to bring back, and if they're let play they certainly will. Think they still lack the quality through the team though, and hopefully fermanagh can contain the big threats.
I'm expecting a good game though, contrary to the opinions of those who swiftly jumped off the bandwagon after the defeat by kildare last yr.
Good point, haranguerer. The crowds at the NFL games fell off badly as Fermanagh struggled through the league. Hopefully everyone turns out to support the boys on the 17th May, even if the game in on TV.
Quote from: D4S on April 30, 2009, 11:53:14 AM
massive difference in a Division 3 League Final in front of 300 in Longford and championship football in Brewster Park with an attendance in the region of 15-18000!
I honestly can't see an attendance as big as this. I would suggest a crowd of around 10-13,000 would be more realistic.
I think Fermanagh will win this. I don't think Down have the same work rate or intensity as Fermanagh. I also think that Down are liable to implode when the pressure is put on. The game is in enniskillen which is a hateful place to go to get a result. Saying that I'd like Fermanagh to win as I'd like Cavan to have a home game against the winners (if Down win the next game is in Newry).
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 30, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
I think Fermanagh will win this. I don't think Down have the same work rate or intensity as Fermanagh. I also think that Down are liable to implode when the pressure is put on. The game is in enniskillen which is a hateful place to go to get a result. Saying that I'd like Fermanagh to win as I'd like Cavan to have a home game against the winners (if Down win the next game is in Newry).
Have Fermanagh played Cavan since the All Ireland Qualifier in 2003? They probably have but I can't remember it
Quote from: FermPundit on April 30, 2009, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 30, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
I think Fermanagh will win this. I don't think Down have the same work rate or intensity as Fermanagh. I also think that Down are liable to implode when the pressure is put on. The game is in enniskillen which is a hateful place to go to get a result. Saying that I'd like Fermanagh to win as I'd like Cavan to have a home game against the winners (if Down win the next game is in Newry).
Have Fermanagh played Cavan since the All Ireland Qualifier in 2003? They probably have but I can't remember it
They haven't met in league and championship since then but maybe they did in the McKenna cup or a challenge.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 30, 2009, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on April 30, 2009, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 30, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
I think Fermanagh will win this. I don't think Down have the same work rate or intensity as Fermanagh. I also think that Down are liable to implode when the pressure is put on. The game is in enniskillen which is a hateful place to go to get a result. Saying that I'd like Fermanagh to win as I'd like Cavan to have a home game against the winners (if Down win the next game is in Newry).
Have Fermanagh played Cavan since the All Ireland Qualifier in 2003? They probably have but I can't remember it
They haven't met in league and championship since then but maybe they did in the McKenna cup or a challenge.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. We've had some great matches with Cavan over the years. Here's hoping we have another one this summer!
Quote from: haranguerer on April 30, 2009, 01:29:33 PM
Quote from: downgirl on October 09, 2008, 07:25:50 PM
Preliminary round is crap...people are stuck in the middle of exams in May and so won't be able to drive up and down...and our crappy TV service has BBC1 NI but not BBC2 NI...so all I can do is pray RTE will televise it :'( :'( :'(
Live on RTE for those with misplaced loyalty :P
Not sure whats gonna happen. I don't think Fermanaghs league form is to be unduly worried about - lot of experimentation, and just the wrong side of a few close results. Nothing expected going into championship, perfect for fermanagh. Havent seen much of down - very bad at the back against tipp who always seemed to have a free man on the overlap, but they've a few to bring back, and if they're let play they certainly will. Think they still lack the quality through the team though, and hopefully fermanagh can contain the big threats.
I'm expecting a good game though, contrary to the opinions of those who swiftly jumped off the bandwagon after the defeat by kildare last yr.
I know...I shouldn't even be allowed to watch it!! :P
Quote from: mylestheslasher on April 30, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
I think Fermanagh will win this. I don't think Down have the same work rate or intensity as Fermanagh. I also think that Down are liable to implode when the pressure is put on. The game is in enniskillen which is a hateful place to go to get a result. Saying that I'd like Fermanagh to win as I'd like Cavan to have a home game against the winners (if Down win the next game is in Newry).
I'd haved to disagree with this statement. Down on their day (championship football)can match anyones wokrate, eg Tyrone in Omagh + Newry last year. The problem is putting a string of good performances together. Went out against Armagh in semi final last year with a lacklustre performance knowhere near that which was reached against Tyrone. Lifted it again for the qualifiers all be it against weaker opposition and then imploded in Croke Park. Hopefully something has been learned from last years championship and we can get a run this year of consistent performances! Better to get beat playing well and go out with a bit of self respect than getting beat knowing you underperformed!
Despite not really setting the world alight during the league at least Down got promotion and that was achieved despite having nowhere near a championship 15 out for the majority of games. I would fancy Down to beat Fermanagh. I always fancy Down to win anyway. Just something about the championship that you always expect Down to raise their game and do it, whether justified or not. But for an opening game in enniskillen against a well organised fermanagh i expect down's first 15 to have too much for them and raise their game to get the job done.
I think Fermanagh will have absolutely no fear playing Down on 17th. Despite all Fermanagh's woes in the league, as someone said earlier, we were there or there about in most games. Down are something of an unknown quantity, and granted we hadnt beat them until that time in the qualifiers, but I think these people that say "you expect Down to win in the Championship" are sadly misguided these days given Tyrone/Derry/Monaghan/Armagh would all be favourites in a game against Down and Fermanagh/Donegal would be a bit of a coin toss (but on recent years form you would not favour Down). Few expected Down to beat Tyrone in the first round and this time more people seem to be tipping Fermanagh than Down, probably due to home advantage. A few years ago you might have been worried about going up against Benny Coulter and Dan Gordon but i'd be relatively confident that Lyons/Goan and Marty will be able to keep them quiet enough. Danny Hughes sounds to be Down's highest scoring forward these days but I don't know too much about him. Aidan Carr looks like a grand player and he could be the one to keep tabs on. Its weird as he'll presumably be in the half back line but it might be worth putting someone like Tommy Mc on him to keep tight to him on his forward runs (i'll happily sacrifice the points in the Gaelic Life comp if he's kept scoreless!). This aside there's always the U-21 effect to take account of and that could be a factor here.
I have a feeling this game could come down to how many scoreable frees Fermanagh miss and how many scoreable frees Fermanagh give away.
Nonetheless, Brewster Park should see us through, Fermanagh by 2
Caid like i said rightly or wrongly i expect down to win every time i go to watch them in the championship. whether that be the build up to the game during the week or whatever and the excitement playing a part i don't know but i always feel confident. thats no disrespect to fermanagh or any other team. last year i expected down to beat tyrone and they did. I expected them to beat armagh and wexford aswell and they didn't. I was merely reflecting on what i feel about the current side that on there day if they click and get a bit of luck in a c'shp game they could beat most sides. I'd rather go to a game confident than expecting defeat
Any of the Down posters have any idea what kind of shape Kevin McKernan and Liam Doyle are in?
Quote from: No1 on May 07, 2009, 09:27:51 AM
Any of the Down posters have any idea what kind of shape Kevin McKernan and Liam Doyle are in?
Heard a rumour a few weeks back that Liam Doyle is unlikely to ever play football again as his knee will not be strong enough. Now my source for this has a reputation for the odd porkie but he seemed genuine enough about this.
Quote from: DownFanatic on May 07, 2009, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: No1 on May 07, 2009, 09:27:51 AM
Any of the Down posters have any idea what kind of shape Kevin McKernan and Liam Doyle are in?
Heard a rumour a few weeks back that Liam Doyle is unlikely to ever play football again as his knee will not be strong enough. Now my source for this has a reputation for the odd porkie but he seemed genuine enough about this.
I heard the same thing about Doyle months ago, a good friend of mine would be friendly with Liam and he said it wasn't looking good. I haven't had any updates in the last few months but I`ll ask again next time I am in Liatroim.
If that turns out to be the case that is terrible news for the fella, he's been so unlucky. So much potential too.
The Down team really could be anything at this stage, which is kind of worrying:
1. Brendan McVeigh
2. Ciaran McGovern OR Martin Cole OR Damien Rafferty
3. Aidan Carr OR Paul Murphy OR Peter Turley OR Conor Garvey
4. Luke Howard
5, 6 and 7. Three from Aidan Carr, Paul Murphy, Damien Rafferty, Peter Turley, Conor Garvey, Declan Rooney, Brendan McArdle, Kevin Duffin
8. Peter Fitzpatrick OR Stephen Kearney OR Joe Ireland OR Ambrose Rogers
9. Dan Gordon
10, 11 and 12. Three from Daniel Hughes, Ronan Sexton, John Boyle, John Fegan, Brendan McArdle, Conor Maginn, Peter Fitzpatrick, Stephen Kearney
13. Benny Coulter
14. Ronan Murtagh OR Cathal Magee
15. Paul McComiskey
I'm assuming that Kevin McKernan is out injured, and the likes of Timmy Hanna, Jamie O'Reilly and Colm Murney won't force their way in now.
It would be easier to pick this week's lotto numbers than guess what team will line out. Out of our central spine, only Dan Gordon is a sure pick in one position.
My take on the match is that bar 2-3 key exceptions, Down will have better individuals throughout the field - but that Fermanagh will be more tactically aware, better prepared, and their players will have a greater understanding of their role in success, not to mention homefield advantage. If it's a nice warm day, Down's natural flair should be too much, as Fermanagh would need to dominate midfield thoroughly to outscore Down. But anything else will see this one going right down to the wire, and I'd say a replay in Newry is a very realistic possibility.
Cathal Magee, Luis Sloan, Rory Simpson and Kevy Anderson all of the Down panel
My Down team would be:
1 McVeigh
2 Cole
3 Turley
4 Howard
5 Carr
6 Garvey
7 Murphy
8 Gordan
9 Fitzpatrick
10 McArdle
11 Rodgers
12 Maginn
13 Hughes
14 Coulter
15 McComiskey
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2009, 02:17:04 PM
The Down team really could be anything at this stage, which is kind of worrying:
1. Brendan McVeigh
2. Ciaran McGovern OR Martin Cole OR Damien Rafferty
3. Aidan Carr OR Paul Murphy OR Peter Turley OR Conor Garvey
4. Luke Howard
5, 6 and 7. Three from Aidan Carr, Paul Murphy, Damien Rafferty, Peter Turley, Conor Garvey, Declan Rooney, Brendan McArdle, Kevin Duffin
8. Peter Fitzpatrick OR Stephen Kearney OR Joe Ireland OR Ambrose Rogers
9. Dan Gordon
10, 11 and 12. Three from Daniel Hughes, Ronan Sexton, John Boyle, John Fegan, Brendan McArdle, Conor Maginn, Peter Fitzpatrick, Stephen Kearney
13. Benny Coulter
14. Ronan Murtagh OR Cathal Magee
15. Paul McComiskey
I'm assuming that Kevin McKernan is out injured, and the likes of Timmy Hanna, Jamie O'Reilly and Colm Murney won't force their way in now.
It would be easier to pick this week's lotto numbers than guess what team will line out. Out of our central spine, only Dan Gordon is a sure pick in one position.
My take on the match is that bar 2-3 key exceptions, Down will have better individuals throughout the field - but that Fermanagh will be more tactically aware, better prepared, and their players will have a greater understanding of their role in success, not to mention homefield advantage. If it's a nice warm day, Down's natural flair should be too much, as Fermanagh would need to dominate midfield thoroughly to outscore Down. But anything else will see this one going right down to the wire, and I'd say a replay in Newry is a very realistic possibility.
Cathal Magee has left the panel so we will probably see Coulter and McComiskey in the full forward line with either Murtagh or Hughes on the edge of the square. More than likely Murtagh.
Carr seems to have a fair bit of faith in John Fegan and id expect him to start on one of the wings. With Murtagh likely to start at full forward he'll probably go with Hughes at No.11. The other wing position is a toss up and if he goes with Fitzpatrick in midfield, I can see Kearney taking up the number 10 shirt. If Kearney is drafted in to the middle, he may indeed plump for Benny McArdle. However, id prefer Ronan Sexton in there.
Gordon is the only certainty at midfield. A fit Ambrose would be his obvious partner but if he isnt fit Id throw Fitzpatrick in to the mix. He's the man for the big occasion.
I wouldnt know where to start with the backiline. McVeigh will be between the sticks and Id say Ross will go for Howard and McGovern in the corners. Garvey may well be the full back.
In the halfback line Aidan Carr is a definite while I wouldnt be suprised if Declan Rooney took up the centre and Murphy was placed on the wing.
At the moment this is what I think Carr may be edging toward:
1. Brendan McVeigh
2. Ciaran McGovern
3. Conor Garvey
4. Luke Howard
5. Aidan Carr
6. Declan Rooney
7. Paul Murphy
8. Dan Gordon
9. Peter Fitzpatrick
10. Stephen Kearney
11. Daniel Hughes
12. John Fegan
13. Benny Coulter
14. Ronan Murtagh
15. Paul McComiskey
My starting 15:
1. B. Mc Veigh
2. Luke Howard
3. Conor Garvey
4. Monk Cole
5. Paul Murphy
6. Peter Turley
7. Declan Rooney
8. Peter Fitzpatrick
9. Dan Gordan
10. Michael Magee
11. Aidan Carr
12. Stephen Kearney
13. Danny Hughes.
14. Benny Coulter
15. Paul Mc Comiskey
16. M Mc Allister
17. D Rafferty
18. C Mc Govern
19. C Murney
20. A Rodgers
21. J O Reilly
22. R Murtagh
23. J Fegan
24. C Poland.
Well according to the impartial we best Louth last week in a friendly by a goal.
I think that the winners of this game will progress to an Ulster final.
Down have great options upfront and as a Fermanagh man, we would take either Micky Walsh or John Clarke( and they cannot even make the Down panel).
But we have a great defence and should be able to contain them.
Gordon is as good as any midfielder in Ireland but McGrath should be able to at least break even against him.
Upfront we are very limited but Down have a poor defence. Carson will do damage at full forward. Sure McBarron destroyed them last year in the league in Newry.
So the teams are pretty evenly match IMO.The Fermanagh backs, Gordon and McGrath at midfield with the Down forwards would be some team
The crucial difference between the two teams is the management. Here i think that Fermanagh have the better management team and i think that's what could swing the game in our favour.
1. B. Mc Veigh
2. Luke Howard
3. Conor Garvey
4. Monk Cole
5. Paul Murphy
6. Declan Rooney
7. Aidan Carr
8. Ambrose Rogers
9. Dan Gordan
10. Ronan Murtagh
11. Benny Coulter
12. Fegan
13. Danny Hughes
14. Paul Mc Comiskey
15. D Rafferty
Thats my starting 15. Not sure if Ambrose is injured or not?? but if he's fit he has to start! He was awesome in last years championship. Full back line is grand, good man markers in there. Half back is a bit dodgey with very attacking minded footballers. Murphy can foul quite a bit but then again Fermanagh didn't really have a free taker last year. Will always rise to the big occassion though! Aidan Carr has to start also, plays well in big games. Murtagh at 12 because he loves winning break ball. Benny is a nightmare for any team bombing down their throats and we all know what mccomiskey and danny can do on their day with decent ball in. Not sure about D rafferty. Put him in there because no one else. John Clarke if available but he's obviously not going to be putting on a jersey this summer.
Really think ross should swallow a bit of pride. Colgan, Clarke and Mickey Walsh are 3 quality quality players that Down could do with and it's obviously a personal issue with all 3.
Down to win by 4 points
Quote from: buglebhoy on May 08, 2009, 02:17:14 PM
1. B. Mc Veigh
2. Luke Howard
3. Conor Garvey
4. Monk Cole
5. Paul Murphy
6. Declan Rooney
7. Aidan Carr
8. Ambrose Rogers
9. Dan Gordan
10. Ronan Murtagh
11. Benny Coulter
12. Fegan
13. Danny Hughes
14. Paul Mc Comiskey
15. D Rafferty
Thats my starting 15. Not sure if Ambrose is injured or not?? but if he's fit he has to start! He was awesome in last years championship. Full back line is grand, good man markers in there. Half back is a bit dodgey with very attacking minded footballers. Murphy can foul quite a bit but then again Fermanagh didn't really have a free taker last year. Will always rise to the big occassion though! Aidan Carr has to start also, plays well in big games. Murtagh at 12 because he loves winning break ball. Benny is a nightmare for any team bombing down their throats and we all know what mccomiskey and danny can do on their day with decent ball in. Not sure about D rafferty. Put him in there because no one else. John Clarke if available but he's obviously not going to be putting on a jersey this summer.
Really think ross should swallow a bit of pride. Colgan, Clarke and Mickey Walsh are 3 quality quality players that Down could do with and it's obviously a personal issue with all 3.
Down to win by 4 points
Thats abit of an insult to the rest of the forwards on the panel. Looking at this thread most fellas havent a starting place for rafferty in the defence never mind attack.
Wise up bugleboy.Do you even realise that D Raff is a back,not a free scoring corner forward.
sorry didn't state the obvious there bitta-banter, Play him as extra defender!! I'll spell it out for you clearer the next time. obviously not gonna be the team but we're all allowed an opinion!!
Quote from: buglebhoy on May 08, 2009, 02:17:14 PM
Really think ross should swallow a bit of pride. Colgan, Clarke and Mickey Walsh are 3 quality quality players that Down could do with and it's obviously a personal issue with all 3.
If any of you were picking the team, who would you pick. You still have to take into account the players that are injured and are unlikely to feature, but you can pick the likes of Clarke, Colgan and Walsh.
Chattin two oul Leitrim men tonight who reckoned home adv would see Fermanagh through...hard to know...but I can't wait...Championship Sunday is the best and ye know when we win Ulster we will appreciate it so much for all the Championship Sunday's that have gone before that have broke our hearts, Right no more drink for me
Quote from: Caid on May 10, 2009, 01:43:18 AM
Chattin two oul Leitrim men tonight who reckoned home adv would see Fermanagh through...hard to know...but I can't wait...Championship Sunday is the best and ye know when we win Ulster we will appreciate it so much for all the Championship Sunday's that have gone before that have broke our hearts, Right no more drink for me
I know what you mean, Caid. The excitement you get the week leading up to Championship Sunday is something special. It doesn't matter how poorly your county has played in the NFL, you always get the feeling that this could be your year.
The build up to the Down game has been very low key in Fermanagh. Not much expectation which suits us down to the ground. We had a very poor league campaign back in 2004 but ended up having a brilliant summer. Maybe we can surprise a few people this summer as well.
What club is Peter Turley from?,if any of yous Down posters could let me know?
DOWNPATRICK
Quote from: souljaboy on May 10, 2009, 05:13:57 PM
DOWNPATRICK
Cheers Soulja,now get your own Avatar-Freddie Prince Jnr is my idol. :D :D :D
Down team id go with;
1. B. Mc Veigh
2. Luke Howard
3. Conor Garvey
4. Martin Cole
5. Paul Murphy
6. Declan Rooney
7. Aidan Carr
8. Peter Fitzpatrick
9. Dan Gordan
10. Kevin Mc Kernan
11. Ambrose Rogers
12. Steven Kearney
13. Danny Hughes
14. Benny Coulter
15. Paul McComiskey
I'd be happy enough with this team starting, only concern would be a left footed free taker, big Magee is the only real option as Doyle is still out. but I think its a bit too much for him to start.
What is the craic with Benny then??
Odds from Spoilsports :
Fermanagh 5/4
Down 4/5
Draw 7/1
Down by 5
ive just moved to canada. does anyone know how i can watch the match online anywhere as RTE dont broadcast outside of Ireland.
The game is All Ticket :o
Looking forward to this one, should be a close one. Fermanagh after the league dont look like they are poised to repeat last years Ulster run but Championship is a different kettle of fish.
Quote
ive just moved to canada.
Check out Setanta, they usually have games that are on TV, you can pay for individual games online in N America or Irish pubs show it in major cities.
Quote from: downman on May 12, 2009, 05:50:06 AM
ive just moved to canada. does anyone know how i can watch the match online anywhere as RTE dont broadcast outside of Ireland.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=12230.0
From a Fermanagh point of view I would be confident of a result (always am at this time of year). Line up as follows;
1. Gallagher
2. Goan
3. Lyons
4. Jones
5. Kelly
6. McCluskey
7. T.McElroy
8. McGrath
9. Sherry
10. O'Brien
11. C.McElroy
12. Little
13. Maguire
14. Carson
15. D.Keenan
Following Benny's injury, there is even worse news emerging today for Down supporters. According to the five-day weather forecasts, it is likely to be a cloudy and wet day in Enniskillen on Sunday with a 95 per cent chance of showers during the afternoon. By my reckoning, the last time we won a championshp match in the rain was against Donegal in Clones in the preliminary round of 1996. Even then, we had an extra man from the first minute, we were awarded a freak goal when Gary Walsh was ruled to have carried the ball over his line and we still only scraped home by a point. Should we even bother turning up on Sunday ?
My Fermanagh team
1. Gallagher
2. Goan
3. Lyons
4. Jones
5. Kelly
6. McCluskey
7. Foy(if fit)
8. McGrath
9. Sherry
10.Maguire
11.O'Brien
12. Little
13. T McElroy
14. Carson
15. D.Keenan
That would be the team that i would line out.
If Foy is fit, push Tommy into the forwards and give him a free role.
Would leave a 2 man Full forward line of D Keenan and Carson. Down Full back line is not good and will be suspect under the high ball.
D Keenan is raw but he played well the last couple of league game and he can hit a free
Bring Eamonn out to the CHF line and with Lyttle they sould win a good amount of break ball, and act as extra defenders in our swarm defence
If fit, Foy should start as well IMO. Was playing very well before the injury.
Its going to be interesting to see if Benny takes part on Sunday. Id say he will and Id expect him to start.
There are also strong rumours going around that Peter Turley is to slot in at full back.
Also, it would be nice to see the Minors getting a win. I have heard glowing reports about the young lad Caolan Mooney from Rostrevor. Supposedly he is still only 16 but he is going to be one of the best to emerge since Marty Clarke.
Quote from: FermGael on May 12, 2009, 02:40:12 PM
My Fermanagh team
1. Gallagher
2. Goan
3. Lyons
4. Jones
5. Kelly
6. McCluskey
7. Foy(if fit)
8. McGrath
9. Sherry
10.Maguire
11.O'Brien
12. Little
13. T McElroy
14. Carson
15. D.Keenan
That would be the team that i would line out.
If Foy is fit, push Tommy into the forwards and give him a free role.
Would leave a 2 man Full forward line of D Keenan and Carson. Down Full back line is not good and will be suspect under the high ball.
D Keenan is raw but he played well the last couple of league game and he can hit a free
Bring Eamonn out to the CHF line and with Lyttle they sould win a good amount of break ball, and act as extra defenders in our swarm defence
If fit, Foy should start as well IMO. Was playing very well before the injury.
Damien Kelly has been struggling with injury lately and hasn't trained according to O'Rourke in the IN today. Hopefully he makes it but those teams look close enough to what I'd expect. Really hope Blobby stays in at 14 all game. He could be the target man we've been looking for and he can really take a score himself. He's been called out to midfield to fight fires throughout the league but he could really test a poor Down full-back line.
Big day for Micky Jones at corner-back too. Can't see Tommy that far forward Fermgael.
Surprised it's all ticket? Will be travelling home on the day, presume the tickets will be on sale at the ground on the day too?
Not gonna sell out in a hundred years.
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
That's exactly what you are doing.
That is not nor would ever be my intention, i am merely acknowledging Fermanaghs current difficulties, compounded by growing injury list of key players. In view of this anything less than a comprehensive win for Down would and should be considered failure.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
Comments like this sum up Down football and their mentality.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
The game is in Enniskillen, in all probability it will rain and despite promotion we had an extremely poor league campaign against very poor opposition. We lost to Tipperary a couple of weeks ago, we have no full back, the rest of the defence is shaky to say the least and the main players are either injured or returning from long spells on the sideline and the likes of John Clarke, Michael Walsh and James Colgan will watch the game from the stand or even on TV, none of this bodes well for Sunday. A one point win would be a great result in my opinion.
FermPundit, you should realise that Pangurban is a regular critic of the Down management, as is his right, and is setting them up for a fall. After the Tipperary game, he came on this board to predict an early championship exit for us. He has now modified this to suggest that anything less than a convincing win in Enniskillen would be a bad result. Most Down fans, comparing the championship record of the two teams over the last five years, would take a draw now, even before they saw the weather forecast.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
Down have done nothing in recent years to suggest that they are significantly better than Fermanagh. In fact, Fermanagh have a much more impressive recent championship pedigree. I'm struggling to understand this mentality, at the minute it just seems like blind arrogance TBH :-\
A one point win would be a great result in my opinion.
The above statement from Trevor Hill is what is really wrong with Down Football and our current mentality. It reflects low self belief and limited ambition. Get a grip man, we are not facing Tyrone or Kerry, this match will be a walkover. Cast out your demons or you will be hyping the likes of Antrim to the status of dangerous opponents next
Quote from: AFS on May 12, 2009, 10:02:49 PM
I'm struggling to understand this mentality, at the minute it just seems like blind arrogance TBH :-\
Its not arrogance, it is the stupidity of one poster, do not tar us all with the one brush. I doubt Pangurban has been too many games this year, if he had been to a few games he would not be quite so cocky.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:44:26 PM
That is not nor would ever be my intention, i am merely acknowledging Fermanaghs current difficulties, compounded by growing injury list of key players. In view of this anything less than a comprehensive win for Down would and should be considered failure.
That's not confidence or self-belief, it's delusional.
In my honest opinion Ronan Gallagher, Shane Goan, Tommy McElroy, Ryan McCluskey, Marty McGrath, Mark Little and Eamon Maguire would walk onto the Down team. All those should play at the weekend an those are just the ones I'm 100% certain about, you could make a case for a few others, Barry Owens and Mark Murphy are the two real losses to Fermanagh. Fair enough we'll work hard, be well organised, and probably defensive, but we've more than enough quality to beat Down. A lot of those players have beaten their Down and indeed Tyrone and Armagh counterparts many times at McRory level.
In saying that we might also score five points and get well beaten.
Think it's a great test of two fairly evenly matched teams, if one side can't beat the other then there's no complaints and not much point in a long drawn out summer.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
I just hope Mal sees this and pins it up on the wall, its arrogance like this that holds Down back. Why Down think they are superior to Fermanagh is def something I cant understand. Down have shown little over the last few years, and I wud actually make fermanagh slight favorites but just.
Ill warrant i have been to more games than you this year Trevor, and i am telling it like it is , The current Fermanagh team have good players, but injuries ,poor results, and loss of key men like Barry Owens has sapped their confidence. Forget the league, Down are a championship team , and our current squad though weak in some vital areas, have too much for Fermanagh or even Cavan to cope with. Should the unthinkable happen and Fermanagh win, i will be the first to congragulate them, but it would be a major shock, and only someone who does not know football would think differently
Hope te fcuk Down put us out of our misery and get Fermanagh off the screen and into that backdoor asap and then they'll draw Carlow and it won't be televised.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 10:28:46 PM
Ill warrant i have been to more games than you this year Trevor, and i am telling it like it is , The current Fermanagh team have good players, but injuries ,poor results, and loss of key men like Barry Owens has sapped their confidence. Forget the league, Down are a championship team , and our current squad though weak in some vital areas, have too much for Fermanagh or even Cavan to cope with. Should the unthinkable happen and Fermanagh win, i will be the first to congragulate them, but it would be a major shock, and only someone who does not know football would think differently
What evidence do you have to support such a statement? I assume your memory have blocked out the last 15 years of championship football.
Quote from: ONeill on May 12, 2009, 10:36:25 PM
Hope te fcuk Down put us out of our misery and get Fermanagh off the screen and into that backdoor asap and then they'll draw Carlow and it won't be televised.
:D You're an ass
Pangurban, after our last match, against Tipperary, you confidently predicted an early championship exit for Down. Since then, Benny's injury has failed to respond to treatment and Liam Doyle has been confirmed as a definite non-starter. However, you are now saying that we will be far too strong for Fermanagh and and should beat Cavan as well. If you are not simply trying to wind people up, would you care to tell us why you have changed your mind so quickly ?
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 10:28:46 PM
Ill warrant i have been to more games than you this year Trevor, and i am telling it like it is
Ross Carr hasn't been to as many games as me this year ;) As a season ticket holder I have been to every league game, every U21 game and even some of the minor league games and I can tell you that this is a poor Down team, with no gameplan and no idea how to defend. Granted Fermanagh are crap also, they couldn't score in a brothel with a bag of fiver's, but they have a system and they can defend and they will be well prepared.
Down are leaderless both on and off the field and it is the lack of leadership off the field that is holding this current side back. There are no set rules within the county set up. One player cannot go to his club dinner dance, while another can go skiing to Cloisters. Then again Pangurban, you probably don't know much about current events, you think admission should be £6 and you also think Down are still a Championship team. You my friend are living in the past, something that I as a Down man am often accused of.
I wish Down all the best on Sunday and I think they will just about beat Fermanagh, but I don't think we will have a long summer.
Good question Mourne Rover. When i predicted an early championship exit, i did not appreciate just how far Fermanagh and Cavan had deteriorated in terms of competiveness. While they have certainly gone backward, Down have improved slightly, and been give a further boost by the performances of the U21s. I can now see us reaching an Ulster Final, where we are likely to be hammered. I still believe we are a poor team but with a potential to be better under different management
Although Down supporters went to Omagh last year with more hope than expectation after failing to gain promotion from Division 3, they came away with much optimism. Promotion was achieved this year, but still go to Enniskillen with more hope than expectation. The reason being that the team is less settled. Everyone and his dog knew what the starting team was going to be last year, but not this year. There are still too many questions that have not been answered fully, none more so than full back.
Here is last years team v. Tyrone in Omagh
B McVeigh;
L Howard, M Cole, C Murney;
A Carr, L Doyle (0-2, 2f), D Rafferty;
D Gordon (0-2), J Lynch;
J Fegan, R Murtagh, D Hughes;
J Clarke, R Sexton (0-1), B Coulter (1-0).
Substitutes: P Murphy (0-1) for Murney (31); A Rodgers (1-1) for Lynch (HT); K McKernan for Fegan (HT); P McCumiskey (0-1, 1f) for Clarke (47)
Lynch and Clarke are no longer on the panel, and Doyle, Coulter, McKernan and Rodgers are not available through injury
Trying to guess what Ross will go for this Sunday is harder than picking a winner of the game! My guess he will go for something like this.
1. Brendan McVeigh
2. Ciarán McGovern
3. Conor Garvey
4. Luke Howard
5. Declan Rooney
6. Aidan Carr
7. Damien Rafferty
8. Peter Fitzpatrick
9. Dan Gordon
10. John Fegan
11. Stephen Kearney
12. Daniel Hughes
13. Benny McArdle
14. Ronan Murtagh
15. Paul McComiskey
16. McAllister, 17. Paul Murphy, 18 Peter Turley, 19. Cole, 20 Kevin Duffin, 21. Colm Murney
22 John Boyle, 23. Ronan Sexton, 24. Jamie O'Reilly, 25. Conor Maginn,
The most likely deviations from the staring 15 are possibly McVeigh, Rooney making way in defence, and perhaps Boyle or O'Reilly being preferred over either McArdle or Fegan in attack.
(Assumes Doyle, Coulter, McKernan and Rodgers are not available through injury)
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 11:55:05 PM
Good question Mourne Rover. When i predicted an early championship exit, i did not appreciate just how far Fermanagh and Cavan had deteriorated in terms of competiveness. While they have certainly gone backward, Down have improved slightly, and been give a further boost by the performances of the U21s. I can now see us reaching an Ulster Final, where we are likely to be hammered. I still believe we are a poor team but with a potential to be better under different management
And who would this different Management be that you so crave?
I'd go for
McVeigh
Cole
Turley /Garvey
Howard
Carr
Rooney
Murphy
Fitzpatrick
Gordon
Kearney
McKernan
Rodgers
McComiskey
Murtagh
Hughes
The Down team for Sunday is really anyones guess and i'm sure ross is still chopping and changing. I imagine he'll announce it tonight though! I think Down will have this team out.
McVeigh
Howard
Peter Turley
Monk
Carr
Conor Garvey
Rooney
Dan
Kearney
Carr
Benny
Fegan
Danny
Murtagh
McComiskey
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 09:28:08 PM
Lets cut the hype and bullshit lads. Down will win this easily, and in saying that i am not disrespecting Fermanagh, who in their current form and with their list of injuries, will do well to keep the score respectable. I dont underestimate the ability of the current Down team and management to c**k things up, but to lose this one would be difficult even for them
Quote from: Pangurban on May 12, 2009, 10:28:46 PM
Ill warrant i have been to more games than you this year Trevor, and i am telling it like it is , The current Fermanagh team have good players, but injuries ,poor results, and loss of key men like Barry Owens has sapped their confidence. Forget the league, Down are a championship team , and our current squad though weak in some vital areas, have too much for Fermanagh or even Cavan to cope with. Should the unthinkable happen and Fermanagh win, i will be the first to congragulate them, but it would be a major shock, and only someone who does not know football would think differently
Those 2 quotes are hilarious. Cannot take you seriously after that.
We are underdogs again, at home and we have the aristocrats of Ulster football visiting on Sunday.
Should we even turn up?? ;)
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 12, 2009, 06:26:13 PM
Damien Kelly has been struggling with injury lately and hasn't trained according to O'Rourke in the IN today. Hopefully he makes it but those teams look close enough to what I'd expect. Really hope Blobby stays in at 14 all game. He could be the target man we've been looking for and he can really take a score himself. He's been called out to midfield to fight fires throughout the league but he could really test a poor Down full-back line.
Big day for Micky Jones at corner-back too. Can't see Tommy that far forward Fermgael.
Surprised it's all ticket? Will be travelling home on the day, presume the tickets will be on sale at the ground on the day too?
Not gonna sell out in a hundred years.
Very surprised its all ticket Exiled.
It will never sell out. With it being on TV and bad weather forecast, will be lucky if there is 15000 there.
I would say its safe to assume that tickets for behind the goals will be on sale on the day.
Covered stand NO. Not to sure about the uncovered seating on the sideline though.
Will find out
Carson will have a huge role to play. Hopefully he is kept in at full forward.
The Down full back line can be exposed. McBarron had a field day against them last year in the League
Benny coulter writes a column every week in the Newry Democrat. In this weeks column benny said the following, "My injury has cleared up, and myself and the panel cannot wait until sunday, this is a massive game for us and it is imperative that we win" Does this mean Benny will play?
Quote from: meatsy86 on May 13, 2009, 11:30:48 AM
Benny coulter writes a column every week in the Newry Democrat. In this weeks column benny said the following, "My injury has cleared up, and myself and the panel cannot wait until sunday, this is a massive game for us and it is imperative that we win" Does this mean Benny will play?
Benny will start. The whole will he/wont he saga is just a sideshow.
with a fairly miserable day forecast and the game being on the box, d'ya think will there be many spare tickets floating around in Enniskillen on Sunday?
should be a VERY tight encounter, the 7/1 on the draw could be a good bet imo as both teams will be fighting tooth and nail to get through as Cavan and Donegal will hold no fear for either of them (sorry for dismissing Antrim but they won't be Donegal in a month of Sundays)
FermGael is right not to take Pangurban too seriously, especially after his explanation for his change of heart over Down's prospects. Pangurban is now claiming that Down have improved since the Tipperary game, and says that when he made his predicition of an early exit for Down he did not realise how much Fermanagh and Cavan had deteriorated. Given that none of the teams in question have played a competitive match since then, Pangurban must be a regular attender at training sessions.
The evidence is that Pangurban is having a pop at the Down management, which he is entitled to do, and also trying to wind up the Fermanagh fans along the way, which is also his right.
Down supporters will probably be more concerned about our team selection. Ross and DJ took a while to work out their strongest line-up last summer, and it was alarming that Murney and Fegan started in Omagh, when they were not yet ready for the big stage, while Murphy and Ambrose were left on the bench. Having had six championship games in 2008, we should be stronger this time round, but only the managers know how fit some of our key figures are for Sunday.
If Benny, Ambrose and McKernan are there or thereabouts, we will be in a decent position. Without those three, anything could happen.
Well said. Pangurban must be in school this morning.
Paddy McEvoy in the Mourne Observer thinks Down will line out as follows:
Brendan McVeigh
Ciaran McGovern
Conor Garvey
Luke Howard
Aidan Carr
Peter Turley
Declan Rooney
Dan Gordon
Peter Fitzpatrick
Ronan Sexton
Conor Maginn
Jamie O'Reilly
Ronan Murtagh
Benny Coulter
Paul McComiskey
Thats not a bad side paddy has lined out there although i'd have hughes in the half forward line ahead of jamie o'reilly!!!
Daniel Hughes will be a definite starter, I wouldnt start with Murtagh though.
Based on all the selections from Ross this year, Hughes and almost certainly Kearney as well will start. Most Down supporters would see Murphy and Cole as automatic choices, but the evidence is that Ross does not necessarily agree. He could pick them both, or he might go with McGovern and Rooney instead.
The big uncertainty is our half forward line. You could make a case for at least eight players there, in terms of form, fitness or experience. I think we would be taking a huge risk by going without a left-footed free taker, but there is no guarentee that Magee is ready for the job.
I think we also need to appreciate the pressure Ross is under. He is a third-season manager, so he knows this is judgment time. If Fermanagh win on Sunday, we will face a break of almost seven weeks before the qualifiers. There is an obvious danger that we could lose confidence and momentum, leading to a first round exit there as well. Key figures on the county board want Pete McGrath back anyway, so there is a lot at stake in Enniskillen.
Pete McGrath is not the answer to the current problems with the senior panel. But lets not forget that there is a game to be played on Sunday and we should all be there to support the team and hopefully we`ll come away with a victory.
Anyone lookin to stop if in good time on Sunday, McKennas Bar on the Main Street in Augher does excellent Guinness! I'm livin up around there myself + will be heading back after the match!
QuoteAnyone lookin to stop if in good time on Sunday, McKennas Bar on the Main Street in Augher does excellent Guinness! I'm livin up around there myself + will be heading back after the match!
Living up there? You must be at the owner with a blatent plug like that!
Jesus Caid what an accusation ::) It's the owners daughter actually ;)
I drink there all the time, I'm a Down man living in Tyrone (not too many of us), just lookin to see a few local faces after the match, nothin wrong with that!
QuoteI'm a Down man living in Tyrone (not too many of us)
In these hard times it is always good to be reminded that there are always more unfortunate people in the world.
Quote from: imdagaffer on May 13, 2009, 08:21:38 PM
How come Lynch is not on he panel?
That was the "news" doing the rounds. But it appears to be inaccurate as the 2009 championship panel has just been posted on An Dún website today and he is included in the 36
http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t11.php?countyid=10&sportid=1&clubid=&club_id=&userid=10&newsstory=9159 (http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t11.php?countyid=10&sportid=1&clubid=&club_id=&userid=10&newsstory=9159)
What is Downs scoring average per game in championship/league compared to Fermanaghs?
Does anyone have comparisons on where they finished/got knocked out in these competitions over past few years also?
Interested to know what the two records look like side by side ???
Cannot answer your question wanderer. However a glance at their league stats in their respective divisions shows up a big discrepancy in goals scored and conceded.
Position P W D L F A +/- Pts
7th Fermanagh 7 1 1 5 7-66 2-100 -19 3
1st Down 7 5 0 2 4-97 5-72 22 10
I fancy Fermanagh strongly. Don't think Down have the stomach for the war of attrition fermanagh will throw at them. Can only get 3/2 on them to win with paddy power.
3/2 ain't bad on for the home team in such a tight game imo
while you are at it, have a bet on the score!
Fear Manach 1-09
An Dún 0-13
If Mourne Rover and a few other posters wish to dispute my views, they could at least do me the courtesy of quoting me accurately. I never said that Down had improved from the Tipp game, or that Fermanagh opr Cavans Deterioration dated from end of league campaign. I was judging them all in the round , based on whole league campaign and happening within their respective camps. Sunday will prove me correct, this is no contest, a Down win is assured, Fermanagh will as always resist bravely , but they lack the man power and fire power to sneak a result
I would not like to see any poster quoted inaccurately. So for the record....
Quote from: Pangurban on May 14, 2009, 01:14:17 AM
If Mourne Rover and a few other posters wish to dispute my views, they could at least do me the courtesy of quoting me accurately. I never said that Down had improved from the Tipp game, or that Fermanagh opr Cavans Deterioration dated from end of league campaign. I was judging them all in the round , based on whole league campaign and happening within their respective camps. Sunday will prove me correct, this is no contest, a Down win is assured, Fermanagh will as always resist bravely , but they lack the man power and fire power to sneak a result
Quote from: Pangurban on April 26, 2009, 12:07:12 AM
... I still believe this squad has potential, but they will never realise it while Ross and DJ remain in charge. Expect an early exit from championship
So if Down win, you were proven correct. And if Down lose, you were proven correct. Better hope it is not a draw ;)
The Down team will be announced live on BBC Newsline tomorrow night from the Club Down golf day in Warrenpoint. It will appear on the Down website simultaneously.
I'd go for
McVeigh
Cole
Garvey
Howard
Carr
Rooney
Murphy
Lynch
Gordon
Kearney
Coulter
Rodgers
McComiskey
Fitzpatrick
Hughes
Lynch played at midfield in a challenge game on saturday with Fitzpatrick at full forward.
Who is the Down minor manager??
He gave an interview to our local paper at home(The Fermanangh Herald).
If the fermanagh players read it, they will need no more motivation
QuoteDown management confident of the win
BY GARETH MCCULLOUGH
After a less than inspiring Ulster Minor League where Down only managed one win from five outings to finish bottom of their section, manager Dessie Kennedy is remaining confident ahead of Sunday's Ulster Championship opener against Fermanagh in Brewster Park (throw-in 1.45pm).
A win for Kennedy's side in this preliminary round tie will set up a clash with Cavan in Armagh on May 30th but Kennedy is naturally not looking that far ahead.
In fact, while Kennedy is confident that his side can do the business at the weekend, he wishes that he had more time to spend with the players; a gripe that all Minor managers would appear to have.
"The powers that be at Croke Park didn't permit us to train collectively prior to the first of March," explained Kennedy.
"With Minor, you only get three or four months with them. It's not like the Senior panel where you have them for three, four, five or six years. When you're not allowed to train collectively, it makes things very difficult for you.
"We were like a lot of other counties in that we used the league as a trial basis.
"Everybody was the same in that we don't know who is strong and we don't know a lot about other counties.
"We don't know anything about Fermanagh but anyone you meet in the Ulster Championship is going to be formidable opposition."
The unpredictability of the Ulster Minor Championship means that it's an extremely hard level to predict at this early stage but Kennedy feels that, despite the short time that the squad has been training together, he knows that Down can make the most of the talent they have at their disposal.
MINEFIELD
"It's a total minefield out there, anybody can win on any given day," he said.
"If you look at any records for the Ulster Championship, you will see that there are only usually a few points between the two sides," he said.
"We have to go and play in the Preliminary round, which makes it that bit more difficult. It's psychological getting through the first one but all we can do is prepare the lads physically and mentally on the day and I think we're getting there.
"We had maybe over a hundred players to look at in a very short space of time in the league, so hopefully we've got the right blend and the right guys."
Kennedy, who has pinpointed Ryan Doran, Ross McGarry and Mattie Bagnall as his men to watch, knows what his side is capable.
"You have to be confident (as a management team). If we're not confident then that will run off on the players. We've every confident in the players we have picked and we're confident that the players can do the job," the Down manager said.
"No disrespect to Fermanagh, but if you had looked at the draw on paper, the team we probably would have wanted would have been them. Now that we've got that draw,we have to go out and do the business of beating them.
"No Ulster Championship match is easy but we'll prepare the lads and hope on the day that everything goes right. After that, who knows what could happen."
Quote from: sammymaguire on May 13, 2009, 11:37:25 AM
with a fairly miserable day forecast and the game being on the box, d'ya think will there be many spare tickets floating around in Enniskillen on Sunday?
should be a VERY tight encounter, the 7/1 on the draw could be a good bet imo as both teams will be fighting tooth and nail to get through as Cavan and Donegal will hold no fear for either of them (sorry for dismissing Antrim but they won't be Donegal in a month of Sundays)
Was thinking would be close, but now you've tipped a draw sammy i know for certain not to back it - i've seen your tips on the horse racing thread... :-\ ;D
Its a 7/1 shot haranguerer - hardly a nailed on cert
as for the horses, I'm taking a break from the thread, thankfully I've been having some winners amongst the "triers" I have been given which have flopped so no need for the dig ;)
Quote from: buglebhoy on May 13, 2009, 10:43:27 AM
The Down team for Sunday is really anyones guess and i'm sure ross is still chopping and changing. I imagine he'll announce it tonight though! I think Down will have this team out.
McVeigh
Howard
Peter Turley
Monk
Carr
Conor Garvey
Rooney
Dan
Kearney
Carr
Benny
Fegan
Danny
Murtagh
McComiskey
Has Ross declared himself available
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on May 14, 2009, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: buglebhoy on May 13, 2009, 10:43:27 AM
The Down team for Sunday is really anyones guess and i'm sure ross is still chopping and changing. I imagine he'll announce it tonight though! I think Down will have this team out.
McVeigh
Howard
Peter Turley
Monk
Carr
Conor Garvey
Rooney
Dan
Kearney
Carr
Benny
Fegan
Danny
Murtagh
McComiskey
Has Ross declared himself available
No, its Alan the comedian - as instructed by RTE to tell some jokes when Fermanagh start thier shite negative defensive tactics and bore us all to death!
Can't wait until sunday evening when the
Sunday Game Project goes out on air, who's replacing Justin Lee Spillane anyway? Such a funny show!
Quote from: FermGael on May 14, 2009, 10:27:57 AM
Who is the Down minor manager??
He gave an interview to our local paper at home(The Fermanangh Herald).
If the fermanagh players read it, they will need no more motivation
QuoteDown management confident of the win
BY GARETH MCCULLOUGH
After a less than inspiring Ulster Minor League where Down only managed one win from five outings to finish bottom of their section, manager Dessie Kennedy is remaining confident ahead of Sunday's Ulster Championship opener against Fermanagh in Brewster Park (throw-in 1.45pm).
A win for Kennedy's side in this preliminary round tie will set up a clash with Cavan in Armagh on May 30th but Kennedy is naturally not looking that far ahead.
In fact, while Kennedy is confident that his side can do the business at the weekend, he wishes that he had more time to spend with the players; a gripe that all Minor managers would appear to have.
"The powers that be at Croke Park didn't permit us to train collectively prior to the first of March," explained Kennedy.
"With Minor, you only get three or four months with them. It's not like the Senior panel where you have them for three, four, five or six years. When you're not allowed to train collectively, it makes things very difficult for you.
"We were like a lot of other counties in that we used the league as a trial basis.
"Everybody was the same in that we don't know who is strong and we don't know a lot about other counties.
"We don't know anything about Fermanagh but anyone you meet in the Ulster Championship is going to be formidable opposition."
The unpredictability of the Ulster Minor Championship means that it's an extremely hard level to predict at this early stage but Kennedy feels that, despite the short time that the squad has been training together, he knows that Down can make the most of the talent they have at their disposal.
MINEFIELD
"It's a total minefield out there, anybody can win on any given day," he said.
"If you look at any records for the Ulster Championship, you will see that there are only usually a few points between the two sides," he said.
"We have to go and play in the Preliminary round, which makes it that bit more difficult. It's psychological getting through the first one but all we can do is prepare the lads physically and mentally on the day and I think we're getting there.
"We had maybe over a hundred players to look at in a very short space of time in the league, so hopefully we've got the right blend and the right guys."
Kennedy, who has pinpointed Ryan Doran, Ross McGarry and Mattie Bagnall as his men to watch, knows what his side is capable.
"You have to be confident (as a management team). If we're not confident then that will run off on the players. We've every confident in the players we have picked and we're confident that the players can do the job," the Down manager said.
"No disrespect to Fermanagh, but if you had looked at the draw on paper, the team we probably would have wanted would have been them. Now that we've got that draw,we have to go out and do the business of beating them.
"No Ulster Championship match is easy but we'll prepare the lads and hope on the day that everything goes right. After that, who knows what could happen."
Kennedy is the selector. Turley is the manager. I think Kennedy is being very honest in this peice. Of course Down were happy that they pulled Fermanagh out of the hat for the MFC. Fermanagh have done next to nothing in the Minor grade for quite a while now and they would of been the team that most counties probably would have wanted to draw in Ulster.
Quote from: DownFanatic on May 14, 2009, 05:20:33 PM
I think Kennedy is being very honest in this peice.
I would agree with that. It's the same as say Tyrone drawing Antrim in the Seniors and Mickey Harte saying "on paper it's the draw we would have wanted but we still have to go out and beat them and no game is easy in Ulster". F
ew manager's show this honesty and in actuality Mickey Harte is more likely to say "Antrim would have to be favourites with their league form being better than ours, but with luck our side, and if God allows it, we'll give them a good game"
I think the Down team will show a few surprises and should line out as follows:
1) Brendan McVeigh
2) Ciaran McGovern
3) Peter Turley
4) Luke Howard
5) Declan Rooney
6) Conor Garvey
7) Kevin Duffin
8) Aidan Carr
9) Dan Gordon
10) Ronan Sexton
11) Benny Coulter
12) Danny Hughes
13) Paul McComiskey
14) Peter Fitzpatrick
15) Stephen Kearney
This would be the best Down team for a number of reasons. Aidan Carr at midfield for the simple reason that he can't defend, but is still Downs best playmaker in the absence of Liam Doyle, so at midfield he will have a greater influence and can roam where he wants without the additional pressures of marking a man. Kearney would obviously be played out around the middle, as Fermanagh are likely to crowd the middle third, and on a potentially wet day, his extra physicality will be important. With Fermanagh playing a blanket defence, Benny should be lined out at half forward, where he can't be double marked as easily. He will also be a big presence from kick-outs, and will help Down gain primary possession, particularly if marking the much smaller McCluskey. Sexton and Hughes are both foragers, who will get through a mountain of work between the 50's, and this will also help combat Fermanaghs running game, as both Hughes and Sexton have the fitness to keep up with anyone in the country, and are strong tacklers, despite their size. Fitzpatrick at full forward offers the long ball option if things get slowed up around the middle, while still being well capable of taking a score off either foot. Really hope Murtagh doesn't start, one of the greediest players I've seen in a long time, and against 12 Fermanagh defenders, this would get severly exploited just like it was against Armagh last year. Duffin should start at 7. Terrific passer of the ball, and unlike Carr, is more than capable of defending. All in all I think this is Downs best team for Enniskillen. Any thoughts?
I only heard this today. I'm surprised I didn't know it already.
From today's Impartial Reporter
"If the sides are level at the end of normal time then two ten minute periods will be played after which if they still can not be separated there will be a replay. The same also applies to the minor game which will commence at 1.45pm"
Quote from: FermPundit on May 14, 2009, 09:33:00 PM
I only heard this today. I'm surprised I didn't know it already.
From today's Impartial Reporter
"If the sides are level at the end of normal time then two ten minute periods will be played after which if they still can not be separated there will be a replay. The same also applies to the minor game which will commence at 1.45pm"
From Down website:
Fermanagh v Down Brewster Park, Enniskillen (Replay 23rd May - Extra Time must be played if needed in all games up to and including the quarter finals. Replay if needed will take place the following Saturday in all cases apart from the Semi Finals & Final).
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 14, 2009, 09:20:03 PM
I think the Down team will show a few surprises and should line out as follows:
1) Brendan McVeigh
2) Ciaran McGovern
3) Peter Turley
4) Luke Howard
5) Declan Rooney
6) Conor Garvey
7) Kevin Duffin
8) Aidan Carr
9) Dan Gordon
10) Ronan Sexton
11) Benny Coulter
12) Danny Hughes
13) Paul McComiskey
14) Peter Fitzpatrick
15) Stephen Kearney
This would be the best Down team for a number of reasons. Aidan Carr at midfield for the simple reason that he can't defend, but is still Downs best playmaker in the absence of Liam Doyle, so at midfield he will have a greater influence and can roam where he wants without the additional pressures of marking a man. Kearney would obviously be played out around the middle, as Fermanagh are likely to crowd the middle third, and on a potentially wet day, his extra physicality will be important. With Fermanagh playing a blanket defence, Benny should be lined out at half forward, where he can't be double marked as easily. He will also be a big presence from kick-outs, and will help Down gain primary possession, particularly if marking the much smaller McCluskey. Sexton and Hughes are both foragers, who will get through a mountain of work between the 50's, and this will also help combat Fermanaghs running game, as both Hughes and Sexton have the fitness to keep up with anyone in the country, and are strong tacklers, despite their size. Fitzpatrick at full forward offers the long ball option if things get slowed up around the middle, while still being well capable of taking a score off either foot. Really hope Murtagh doesn't start, one of the greediest players I've seen in a long time, and against 12 Fermanagh defenders, this would get severly exploited just like it was against Armagh last year. Duffin should start at 7. Terrific passer of the ball, and unlike Carr, is more than capable of defending. All in all I think this is Downs best team for Enniskillen. Any thoughts?
i think there is some merit to what you suggest but trying this out for the first time in the championship would be too risky
Fermanagh team to play Down in the Ulster SFC at Brewster Park, Sunday, 3.30pm:
Chris Breen,
Peter Sherry, Shane Lyons, Hugh Brady,
Damien Kelly, Shane McDermott, Tommy McElroy,
Martin McGrath, James Sherry,
Ryan Keenan, Ciaran McElroy, Mark Little,
Daryl Keenan, Ryan Carson, Eamon Maguire,
O'Rourke has picked a good mix of youth and experience in the starting line-up, good choice having Carson in full forward although if Daryl Keenan is gonna be the free taker can he stand up to the pressure now associated with this responsibility in the Fermanagh senior team?
McCluskey, Shane Goan, Enda Ferris on the bench gives some limited options
Quote from: Down Gael on October 09, 2008, 10:23:22 AM
The team that cant score v the team that cant defend. Then Cavan in the next round.
spot on
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 15, 2009, 09:42:06 AM
Quote from: Down Gael on October 09, 2008, 10:23:22 AM
The team that cant score v the team that cant defend. Then Cavan in the next round.
spot on
or put another way...
The team that can score v the team that can defend. Then Cavan in the next round.
Both these teams are clean useless. Down will win and then beat Cavan who are also crap then 75% of Down will lose the run of thenselves dreaming of Ulster finals and the glory days of 91 & 94 only for the team to go out with a whimper against an average Donegal team and be beaten by another average team in the qualifiers. Same shite every year!
Hopefully the minors win on sunday as they have some good young players even though the management selections leave you scratching your head!
Quote from: sammymaguire on May 15, 2009, 08:53:03 AM
Fermanagh team to play Down in the Ulster SFC at Brewster Park, Sunday, 3.30pm:
Chris Breen,
Peter Sherry, Shane Lyons, Hugh Brady,
Damien Kelly, Shane McDermott, Tommy McElroy,
Martin McGrath, James Sherry,
Ryan Keenan, Ciaran McElroy, Mark Little,
Daryl Keenan, Ryan Carson, Eamon Maguire,
O'Rourke has picked a good mix of youth and experience in the starting line-up, good choice having Carson in full forward although if Daryl Keenan is gonna be the free taker can he stand up to the pressure now associated with this responsibility in the Fermanagh senior team?
McCluskey, Shane Goan, Enda Ferris on the bench gives some limited options
Whats wrong with Ronan Gallagher? f**k sake, only one week in and boys off my fantasy football team are already getting dropped. I hope Down score 7 goals now.
Chris Breen,
Peter Sherry, Shane Lyons, Hugh Brady
Damien Kelly, Shane McDermott, Tommy McElroy
Martin McGrath, James Sherry
Ryan Keenan, Ciaran McElroy, Mark Little
Daryl Keenan, Ryan Carson, Eamon Maguire
Interesting selection. Surprised Gallagher hasn't made it but Breen is a top class keeper so wouldn't be too concerned ther. Would have concerns about the full-back line and centre half back as regards pace though. Very surprised Goan isn't there, especially with Danny Hughes in decent form. Would have thought he's an ideal man to pick him up, if Benny doesn't play. We know what we'll get from Frog at No 6. Seriously strong, will carry the ball out and a decent passer, who will be at No 11 for Down and what would his game be? I'd still be amazed if Clucker isn't in there somewhere come Sunday (maybe depending on Down team).
Two wing backs are excellent and good for an odd score. Half-forwards are all work horses but hopefully a few of them maintain some position in the attacking half to give us a decent platform to attack. Really like the look of the full-forward line, we could cause them real problems with a combination of pace, brains and a little power in there. A lot of it will come down to midfield, people are billing it as Dan v Marty but Sherry will have the bigger say I think. Just depends on whether he's up for it on the day and gets stuck in. It's been said a hundred times but he's definitely good enough for this level, O'Rourke has played him all year and he needs to believe it now too and repeat some of his from of old and start doing the ugly things right.
We can win this, narrowly.
Quote from: sammymaguire on May 15, 2009, 08:53:03 AM
Fermanagh team to play Down in the Ulster SFC at Brewster Park, Sunday, 3.30pm:
Chris Breen,
Peter Sherry, Shane Lyons, Hugh Brady,
Damien Kelly, Shane McDermott, Tommy McElroy,
Martin McGrath, James Sherry,
Ryan Keenan, Ciaran McElroy, Mark Little,
Daryl Keenan, Ryan Carson, Eamon Maguire,
O'Rourke has picked a good mix of youth and experience in the starting line-up, good choice having Carson in full forward although if Daryl Keenan is gonna be the free taker can he stand up to the pressure now associated with this responsibility in the Fermanagh senior team?
McCluskey, Shane Goan, Enda Ferris on the bench gives some limited options
why does o'rourke even bother giving out a team to the press? Goan will start.sherry and kelly have both been carrying injuries and cannot see both them starting..nice to see breen getting his chance in goals.McCluskey should start because he is a class act but may have to make do with a place on the bench due to his soccer committments.
Down team for Sunday, no Coulter, though it would be a shock if this team actually starts as lined out.
B McVeigh
L Howard
K McKernan
D Rafferty
A Carr
C Garvey
D Rooney
D Gordon
A Rogers
B McArdle
J Boyle
S Kearney
D Hughes
R Murtagh
P McComiskey
Quote from: Trevor Hill on May 15, 2009, 06:22:01 PM
Down team for Sunday, no Coulter, though it would be a shock if this team actually starts as lined out.
B McVeigh
L Howard
K McKernan
D Rafferty
A Carr
C Garvey
D Rooney
D Gordon
A Rogers
B McArdle
J Boyle
S Kearney
D Hughes
R Murtagh
P McComiskey
For a fact it wont. Benny McArdle is out with a hamstring injury.
So Coulter could start, if he is fit, with Daniel Hughes dropping back into the half forward line? I`d prefer to see McKernan and Garvey swap places as well.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on May 15, 2009, 06:36:49 PM
So Coulter could start, if he is fit, with Daniel Hughes dropping back into the half forward line? I`d prefer to see McKernan and Garvey swap places as well.
Id say what you have predicted will likely be the case come sunday. Heard Peter Fitzpatrick was also due to start.
Can anyone clarify the John Clarke Situation? I hear he went to see Marty at a get together against Ross's Wishes and was told not to come back!
And who writes Downs Team Sheet on the website.
Paul McCumiskey?
Both teams will probably have some changes on Sunday, but there are still plenty of talking points. Cole and Murphy are our two most experienced, and, in the eyes of many supporters, most capable defenders, but they have not made it. While McKernan will not let anyone down, he is only back after a reasonably serious injury. There must also be some doubts about Ambrose's match fitness as well, although it is great to see him back.
We still have a decent line-up, which will be stronger again if Benny starts, although there is no left-footed free taker, and we should be capable of making our presence felt in Enniskillen.
Have to agree with the Murphy, Cole comment, but also hoping not to be proved right. The half forward line is also very inexperienced and I just pray to God that there isnt high ball pumped into that full forward line. Good early quick ball in will be the key, there is definately a bit of pace in there to cause problems.
Just dont see anyone in the team that will win lots of breaking ball around the middle, if as predicted the weather is bad this will be a key factor as high Fielding will be at a premium I reckon.
I still think that team is more than capable of putting on a performance and hopefully shading what is sure to be a tight game.
What is the pub situation up near Brewster? memory is a bit shady from the last time ???
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 15, 2009, 07:00:32 PM
although there is no left-footed free taker,
Have every confidence in Carr and Mccomiskey delivering. Last year U21's used McComiskey alot on the right hand side and Carr hit a few good frees from that side.
So far this year though I'd say frees haven't been an issue, and there haven't been enough to justify it being an issue. Possibly an argument for the new rules? It's not that bad though, BBC websites report to day was that fermanagh needed any one to kick frees left or right footed.
Few decent pubs across the road from Dunnes as you approach ground. You'll probably have no park somewhere near there anyway, Willie Ramblers and Railway (the latter does food). bout halfway between there and the ground on the left is the Fort Lodge hotel. Will be packed and is five minute walk from ground, also does food and would probably be the best/handiest spot. Think ther Gaels clubhouse open the bar too behind main stand but not too sure of the story there.
Can any of you Dwon experts tell me what type of player John Boyle is?
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 15, 2009, 07:50:27 PM
Can any of you Down experts tell me what type of player John Boyle is?
Someone wrongly compared him to Greg Blaney. Hes not a bad footballer, but he can disappear from games for long periods, he touched the ball once in the opening half against Tipperary recently and he isn't the fastest man on the team, but at other times he can really get involved and he has kicked a few excellent long range scores. He seems to fancy himself as a free taker, but he has missed more than he has scored.
I still think he has the makings of a good footballer, he is on a steep learning curve at the minute. I don't know wether he will be suited to the type of game that Fermangh play though.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on May 15, 2009, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 15, 2009, 07:50:27 PM
Can any of you Down experts tell me what type of player John Boyle is?
Someone wrongly compared him to Greg Blaney. Hes not a bad footballer, but he can disappear from games for long periods, he touched the ball once in the opening half against Tipperary recently and he isn't the fastest man on the team, but at other times he can really get involved and he has kicked a few excellent long range scores. He seems to fancy himself as a free taker, but he has missed more than he has scored.
I still think he has the makings of a good footballer, he is on a steep learning curve at the minute. I don't know wether he will be suited to the type of game that Fermangh play though.
John Boyle sums up the majority of players on the Down team at the moment. Excellent club players but maybe just below the mark in terms of county standard.
Boyle is a handy play maker and his good on the ball but Id rather see him introduced against a tiring team in the last ten minutes.
He is an average club player and the fact that we have a natural free scoring playmaker suited purely for centre half foward in maginn just defies belief. By the way did anyone see the news tonight when austin o'callaghan held up the document with the top secret down team wrote on it, laughable or what?
Maginn is a great prospect, but he still needs to fill out and during his league outings he looked more likely to play senior championship football in 2010 rather than 2009. Against bigger and stronger opponents in the u21 final against Cork, he only played in flashes and failed to score. Boyle has yet to convince in the same position, but he is capable of winning the ball.
Boyle has yet to prove himself at county level. tommorrow is his big chance. he has been playing centre half back for the point in last few years. ID be worried about our half forward line. Kelly and McElroy will attack plenty and have a lot of pace where as we are the opposite in this line. The Fermanagh line up is weak if truth be told so i expect a Down victory. No Barry Owens, Ryan McCuskey, Shane McCabe, Sean Doherty, Tom Brewster, Mark Murphy and shane Goan in starting team. We have everyone available thats selected for squad apart from Liam Doyle so i would be confident of a Down victory. We have Paul Murphy, Monk Cole, Ronan Sexton, Benny Coulter on bench with loads of experience and talented younger players so if management get it right with tactics and decision making in making changes then role on Cavan in 4 weeks.
It is noteworthy that Conor Garvey (making his championship debut) is the only Mayobridge player on the Down starting 15, despite Mayobridge being the most dominant club in the county. (Of course Benny Coulter would also be on if not injured).
13 clubs are represented in the starting 15 players.
And in the 2003 final more than 4 bridge men started.
As Mid Down Gael says, Boyle has yet to prove himself, he may just do that tomorrow who knows. He has only played in 5 or 6 games this year, some of those games he was used as a substitute, so we haven't really seen the best, or worst of him yet. What worries me is the standard of opposition that we faced in Division 3, it was dire to say the least and he didn't exactly cover himself in glory, but championship football can bring out the best in players and I hope, for Downs sake as well as John Boyles sake that we are calling him the next Greg Blaney tomorrow evening. Who knows.
I would be worried about the half forward line and probably the half and full back line as well. I would like to see John Fegan in the half forward line. He covers a lot of ground and we will need someone like that tomorrow against a half back line that will come forward at speed whenever they get the chance. Daniel Hughes will also play out around the half forward line, but I am not as convinced of his defensive abilities and while we are on the subject of Daniel, which Daniel will be in Enniskillen tomorrow. The Daniel who can take scores off either foot from distance and go past defenders like they weren't there or the Daniel that seems to disappear somewhere between midfield and the opposition goal?
That will leave a 2 man full forward line of McComiskey and Murtagh, good quality, early diagonal balls will be the order of the day and hopefully Ronan won`t think that he owns the ball and actually pass the odd time instead of running into trouble after being in acres of space. The big question on everyone mind is Coulter, will he wont he. Only one man on this forum can answer that for definite and he has already said Benny wont start, Ross Carr backed that up yesterday when naming, the team, but we live in hope of seeing him at some stage, he is our match winner.
As was said on the first page of this thread, its the team that cant defend against the team that cant score, I think we`ll out score them, just.
Really lads, even mentioning John Boyle in the same breath as Greg Blaney is taking the pi**. He reminds me of the old KitKat ad that now seems to sum up Down team selection ... "you can't mark, you can't tackle, you look like a journeyman club player .... you'll definitely get selected for Down" ....
Nothing personal but be serious - Boyle? Murtagh? Sexton? - we will win NOTHING with these type of players.
Leo no matter who gets selected at No11 for Down they will be compared to Blaney in one way or another, in my opinion no one will ever replace Greg Blaney unless Martin Clarke gets bored in Oz, but we have to move on and make the best of what we have got. The one thing that really pisses me off about a lot of the so called Down support is their tendency to turn on their own players, in this case before a ball is kicked. Ross Carr has selected 15 players to go out and represent us and it is our duty as Down men to go to Enniskillen tomorrow and give those boys our support.
Have Down or Fermanagh been playing any challenge games over the past few weeks. How have they got on?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on May 16, 2009, 03:40:08 PM
Leo no matter who gets selected at No11 for Down they will be compared to Blaney in one way or another, in my opinion no one will ever replace Greg Blaney unless Martin Clarke gets bored in Oz, but we have to move on and make the best of what we have got. The one thing that really pisses me off about a lot of the so called Down support is their tendency to turn on their own players, in this case before a ball is kicked. Ross Carr has selected 15 players to go out and represent us and it is our duty as Down men to go to Enniskillen tomorrow and give those boys our support.
Well said Trevor Hill!
Lookin forward to the game and i've every faith in the lads selected. Will be surprised though if Ambrose starts as he's still not 100%.
Get some score predictions on!
Down 1-13
Fermanagh 1-9
Fermanagh 1-12
Down 0-10
Quote from: FermGael on May 16, 2009, 05:25:19 PM
Fermanagh 1-12
Down 0-10
Enough about the minors, how do you think the senior game will go? :D
Quote from: Trevor Hill on May 16, 2009, 05:33:09 PM
Quote from: FermGael on May 16, 2009, 05:25:19 PM
Fermanagh 1-12
Down 0-10
Enough about the minors, how do you think the senior game will go? :D
Hilarious
would anyone give me odds that the down team thats named is not the one that starts tomorrow?
i was surprised peter turley wasnt included in the team. same with paul murphy. would have liked to see murphy and duffin getting a chance tomorrow as both are comfortable on the ball.
i would expect peter fitzpatrick to start, maybe ambrose will be tried at full forward seeing as i wouldn't expect him to be fully fit.
anyway, best of luck to the lads tomorrow. looks like we'll get a serious soaking anyway for our trouble. surely things cannot be as bad as longford.
Quote from: Leo on May 16, 2009, 12:53:53 PM
Nothing personal but be serious - Boyle? Murtagh? Sexton? - we will win NOTHING with these type of players.
Harsh.
Murtagh and sexton are some of the few players that are capable of taking it to teams.
Sexton can produce absolute brilliance which is more than can be said for a lot of players in the panel.
Quote from: behind the wire on May 16, 2009, 05:39:28 PM
would anyone give me odds that the down team thats named is not the one that starts tomorrow?
i was surprised peter turley wasnt included in the team. same with paul murphy. would have liked to see murphy and duffin getting a chance tomorrow as both are comfortable on the ball.
i would expect peter fitzpatrick to start, maybe ambrose will be tried at full forward seeing as i wouldn't expect him to be fully fit.
anyway, best of luck to the lads tomorrow. looks like we'll get a serious soaking anyway for our trouble. surely things cannot be as bad as longford.
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Well the big day is almost here. Expectations within Fermanagh are very low, considering our Ulster campaign last year and a lot of the "sunshine fans" have came and gone. Fermanagh's team lineout is quite surprising but I would expect a change or 2 to the 15. Damian Kelly has a late fitness test so if he doesn't make it Ryan McCluskey will probably come in. Reading through some of the comments from the Down posters on here it is apparent that there is a fair degree of confidence, if not arrogance, amonsgt the Down support. Anyway heres hoping for a dry day and an entertaining day ending in Fermanagh victories for both Minor and Seniors ;D
Quote from: down6061689194 on May 16, 2009, 06:59:48 PM
Quote from: Leo on May 16, 2009, 12:53:53 PM
Nothing personal but be serious - Boyle? Murtagh? Sexton? - we will win NOTHING with these type of players.
Harsh.
Murtagh and sexton are some of the few players that are capable of taking it to teams.
Sexton can produce absolute brilliance which is more than can be said for a lot of players in the panel.
Ive yet to see it from Sexton at county level.
think the down team named is just a cover for press purposes, carr keeping his cards close to his chest, reckon there will be at least 5 changes to that team named!
Quote from: Emmett on May 16, 2009, 07:18:39 PM
Well the big day is almost here. Expectations within Fermanagh are very low, considering our Ulster campaign last year and a lot of the "sunshine fans" have came and gone. Fermanagh's team lineout is quite surprising but I would expect a change or 2 to the 15. Damian Kelly has a late fitness test so if he doesn't make it Ryan McCluskey will probably come in. Reading through some of the comments from the Down posters on here it is apparent that there is a fair degree of confidence, if not arrogance, amonsgt the Down support. Anyway heres hoping for a dry day and an entertaining day ending in Fermanagh victories for both Minor and Seniors ;D
I'd be extremely surprised if Ryan McCluskey doesn't start tomorrow. I know he played soccer during the NFL, but he is a class act and we need his experience on the half back line. In fairness I don't think too many of the Down posters have been overly arrogant this week, well one or two maybe. However, given the performance of both teams over the winter, it's hardly surprising that they fancy their chances against Fermanagh. But sure don't us Fermanagh men love being the underdog? Tomorrow our disappointing league campaign can be forgotten about. It's all about 70 minutes of championship football between two evenly matched sides. I honestly think there will be no more than one or two points in it at the end.
The Down team that is named will be nothing like the one that takes the field tomorrow. McKernan isnt fit, Ambrose isnt fit, Brendan McArdle is nowhere near championship fitness. Duffin will start at 7, along with Turley in the full back line and Carr at midfield. I expect Fitzpatrick will start, and Benny will be out around the '40. Don't know why Down never just name the team that is starting!!! ???
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Not true. Derry got caught out in the Ulster Championship last year because a wet weather game suited the Fermanagh defensive style better. And on the other side, Down are historically bad in the wet in Ulster Championship, and there is no reason that the current team will be any better with the style they try to play. So wet weather... advantage Fermanagh
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 16, 2009, 09:30:42 PM
The Down team that is named will be nothing like the one that takes the field tomorrow. McKernan isnt fit, Ambrose isnt fit, Brendan McArdle is nowhere near championship fitness. Duffin will start at 7, along with Turley in the full back line and Carr at midfield. I expect Fitzpatrick will start, and Benny will be out around the '40. Don't know why Down never just name the team that is starting!!! ???
It would be useful if, when posting, you said if this was a personal opinion of yours, or if you have some inside knowledge of facts ;)
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Not true. Derry got caught out in the Ulster Championship last year because a wet weather game suited the Fermanagh defensive style better. And on the other side, Down are historically bad in the wet in Ulster Championship, and there is no reason that the current team will be any better with the style they try to play. So wet weather... advantage Fermanagh
I dont agree. Throughout this year's NFL, Fermanagh tried to play an offensive style of football. This was probably a contributing factor to them getting relegated. Just because Fermanagh played a defensive system last year doesn't mean the same will happen again this year. Before 2008, especially in 2004, Fermanagh were praised for playing an attacking brand of football. In the words of John Maughan Fermanagh were a "breath of fresh air". Tactics and systems of play aren't set in stone. They evolve over time. Fermanagh have had to adjust their playing style according to the availability of players. On too many occasions in the NFL they were without key players, or during the matches lost players to the yellow card system gratefully deceased and consequently were seldom able to establish any coherent style of play. As to the wet weather suiting Fermanagh I ask you to cast your mind back to 2006 Ulster Championship and the dreadful performance against Antrim in the rain in Brewster Park. The rain does not suit Fermanagh full stop.
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Not true. Derry got caught out in the Ulster Championship last year because a wet weather game suited the Fermanagh defensive style better. And on the other side, Down are historically bad in the wet in Ulster Championship, and there is no reason that the current team will be any better with the style they try to play. So wet weather... advantage Fermanagh
I dont agree. Throughout this year's NFL, Fermanagh tried to play an offensive style of football. This was probably a contributing factor to them getting relegated. Just because Fermanagh played a defensive system last year doesn't mean the same will happen again this year. Before 2008, especially in 2004, Fermanagh were praised for playing an attacking brand of football. In the words of John Maughan Fermanagh were a "breath of fresh air". Tactics and systems of play aren't set in stone. They evolve over time. Fermanagh have had to adjust their playing style according to the availability of players. On too many occasions in the NFL they were without key players, or during the matches lost players to the yellow card system gratefully deceased and consequently were seldom able to establish any coherent style of play. As to the wet weather suiting Fermanagh I ask you to cast your mind back to 2006 Ulster Championship and the dreadful performance against Antrim in the rain in Brewster Park. The rain does not suit Fermanagh full stop.
Yep this one's all down to the rain!
Based on the science of these weather factors and the rain forecast tomorrow Down are fcuked!
However what if it is cloudy with sunny spells?
Or even sunny with showers in some places?
Who will win then?
Cos I'm just gonna ring the Enniskillen tourist office in the morning to get a weather report as it will save me the drive down in the morning (having already known the outcome giving the whole rain situation and all).
However I shall leave all this query for all you Gaelic Football weather anaylists:
With the effects of global warming and the sunnier/warmer climate it brings combined with the success of Down at u/21 level in recent years, can you predict an All-Irelnad final win for Down in the not to distant future?
It's just that I hav'nt yet signed up for my club Down membership and I might just save me self the fee!
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Not true. Derry got caught out in the Ulster Championship last year because a wet weather game suited the Fermanagh defensive style better. And on the other side, Down are historically bad in the wet in Ulster Championship, and there is no reason that the current team will be any better with the style they try to play. So wet weather... advantage Fermanagh
I dont agree. Throughout this year's NFL, Fermanagh tried to play an offensive style of football. This was probably a contributing factor to them getting relegated. Just because Fermanagh played a defensive system last year doesn't mean the same will happen again this year. Before 2008, especially in 2004, Fermanagh were praised for playing an attacking brand of football. In the words of John Maughan Fermanagh were a "breath of fresh air". Tactics and systems of play aren't set in stone. They evolve over time. Fermanagh have had to adjust their playing style according to the availability of players. On too many occasions in the NFL they were without key players, or during the matches lost players to the yellow card system gratefully deceased and consequently were seldom able to establish any coherent style of play. As to the wet weather suiting Fermanagh I ask you to cast your mind back to 2006 Ulster Championship and the dreadful performance against Antrim in the rain in Brewster Park. The rain does not suit Fermanagh full stop.
There's no doubt that Fermanagh played a defensive brand of football last season but I agree that a wet day and heavy pitch will not suit them. They are quite a light team and play better with a dry ball in their hands. I hope they are a lot more offensive tomorrow, teams have worked out Fermanagh and we need to mix it up a bit.
Quote from: inisceithleann on May 16, 2009, 10:38:05 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 10:09:18 PM
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:39:17 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 16, 2009, 07:00:17 PM
There has been some seriously heavy showers in Enniskillen today. I hope they're not as bad tomorrow. The wet conditions will suit neither side.
Not true. Derry got caught out in the Ulster Championship last year because a wet weather game suited the Fermanagh defensive style better. And on the other side, Down are historically bad in the wet in Ulster Championship, and there is no reason that the current team will be any better with the style they try to play. So wet weather... advantage Fermanagh
I dont agree. Throughout this year's NFL, Fermanagh tried to play an offensive style of football. This was probably a contributing factor to them getting relegated. Just because Fermanagh played a defensive system last year doesn't mean the same will happen again this year. Before 2008, especially in 2004, Fermanagh were praised for playing an attacking brand of football. In the words of John Maughan Fermanagh were a "breath of fresh air". Tactics and systems of play aren't set in stone. They evolve over time. Fermanagh have had to adjust their playing style according to the availability of players. On too many occasions in the NFL they were without key players, or during the matches lost players to the yellow card system gratefully deceased and consequently were seldom able to establish any coherent style of play. As to the wet weather suiting Fermanagh I ask you to cast your mind back to 2006 Ulster Championship and the dreadful performance against Antrim in the rain in Brewster Park. The rain does not suit Fermanagh full stop.
There's no doubt that Fermanagh played a defensive brand of football last season but I agree that a wet day and heavy pitch will not suit them. They are quite a light team and play better with a dry ball in their hands. I hope they are a lot more offensive tomorrow, teams have worked out Fermanagh and we need to mix it up a bit.
What if its a really sunny and dry day and somebody on the other team runs the ball under a tap, will Fermanah still get beat?
Hmmm, in the words of Keegan I would love it if we beat Down.
It's gonna be a dreadful day but a 1-9 to 0-10 win will do for me, Barry Owens off the bench for the winning goal.
ExiledGael we would all to see Fermanagh win an Ulster Championship, but it aint going to happen this year, nevertheless be assured of our support in your qualifiers campaign
I honestly fancy Fermanagh for this one...Don't be fooled by the league results, Championship is a different deal.
O'Rourke is no dummy and IMHO will have the homework done, these boy's well prepared and in tip top shape for the marra!
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 16, 2009, 09:30:42 PM
The Down team that is named will be nothing like the one that takes the field tomorrow. McKernan isnt fit, Ambrose isnt fit, Brendan McArdle is nowhere near championship fitness. Duffin will start at 7, along with Turley in the full back line and Carr at midfield. I expect Fitzpatrick will start, and Benny will be out around the '40. Don't know why Down never just name the team that is starting!!! ???
It would be useful if, when posting, you said if this was a personal opinion of yours, or if you have some inside knowledge of facts ;)
maybe he doesnt want to be seen as giving away vital info :D but yes i also heard 'rumours' of turley at fb and duffin in the half back line, along with fitzpatrick upfront and aidan car 'roaming'!!
The Championship is back!
Envious of the Down and Fermanagh folk making their way to the game - the sounds, smells and being ripped off.
Down with their big arses and thighs to emerge with a 4-point win.
It's dry here at the moment but looks like it is going to be showery.
Wee bit of a breeze blowing as well.
Im predicting a Down win here by 2 or 3 points.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2688809301_0d1980c3a0.jpg?v=0)
Best of luck Fermanagh today.
A Championship Down performance such as that against Tyrone '08 --> Down win
A Championship Down performance such as that against Wexford '08 --> Fermanagh win
Quote from: supersub on May 17, 2009, 01:46:54 AM
Quote from: western exile on May 16, 2009, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 16, 2009, 09:30:42 PM
The Down team that is named will be nothing like the one that takes the field tomorrow. McKernan isnt fit, Ambrose isnt fit, Brendan McArdle is nowhere near championship fitness. Duffin will start at 7, along with Turley in the full back line and Carr at midfield. I expect Fitzpatrick will start, and Benny will be out around the '40. Don't know why Down never just name the team that is starting!!! ???
It would be useful if, when posting, you said if this was a personal opinion of yours, or if you have some inside knowledge of facts ;)
maybe he doesnt want to be seen as giving away vital info :D but yes i also heard 'rumours' of turley at fb and duffin in the half back line, along with fitzpatrick upfront and aidan car 'roaming'!!
Yea, sorry about that... Its a wee bit of both... Also heard 'rumours' that was going to be the team, but McKernan, Ambrose or McArdle aren't fit, so I don't know why they are even named...
Bogue and McCloskey in for Fermanagh
Down changes almost as predicted
Good open game so far. Down look to have more scoring options in the forward line than Fermanagh although that was expected. Some good long point-taking from the Erne men with the half backs playing a blinder.
Coulter not at it.
Brolly is pulling Pat up on every little thing. Only right as he is spouting shite. As for that carney clown and his experimental rules comments. I still think Fermanagh will grind it out. Coulter won't last much of the 2nd half I don't think.
Lots and lots of aimless kicking
Any word on attendance? Doesn't look too full
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 04:31:53 PM
Lots and lots of aimless kicking
Any word on attendance? Doesn't look too full
10k according to rte.
Mark Little playing very poorly for Fermanagh giving it away a lot.
Some absolutely horrible football being played by fermanagh here.
Also, what has Fermanagh's number 15 got against haircuts?
Dire game of football, time for Pat to bring puke football out of retirement.
10 - 9 to Down, 54 mins. Pissing rain now, game gone to pot.
Fermanagh turn the screw 11-10 up. Big carson lad at FF coming out into half forward line and doing damage. 10 mins left.
Looks like game over fermanagh 13-10 up. 2 mins left.
Game over.
Fermanagh win 13 - 10. A strong last 1/4 did it. Down not up for the fight as myles predicted earlier.
57 frees! Jesus dire stuff
Poor game, I wouldn't be worried about meeting either team.
fair play to fermanagh, shows how important a decent free taker is with carsons contribution in 2nd half! Kudos to shane O briens last free kick, must have been tryin to get the ball as far away from down goals as possible to waste bit more time! ;D
In fairness Gnevin, and anyone else waiting to have their predictable pops at Ulster football, they were two very average teams playing in absolutely shite conditions. You were never gonna get a great free flowing game when good handling and keeping your footing was so difficult.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 05:10:55 PM
57 frees! Jesus dire stuff
Yeah, John Bannon is brutal.
Aidan Carr's foul was hardly worth a red card?????????
Quote from: thebandit on May 17, 2009, 05:14:06 PM
Poor game, I wouldn't be worried about meeting either team.
Assuming they beat Cavan and we get past Antrim, I would still expect a very tough, close game against Fermanagh in the semi. They're never easy to beat. And after this, they'd probably start as favourites.
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:15:56 PM
Aidan Carr's foul was hardly worth a red card?????????
Did he not strike?
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 05:15:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 05:10:55 PM
57 frees! Jesus dire stuff
Yeah, John Bannon is brutal.
:D
I'm just hoping, since he took charge of this one, he can't ref Armagh - Tyrone in a couple of weeks.
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:15:56 PM
Aidan Carr's foul was hardly worth a red card?????????
Did he not strike?
I thought it was just a tough shoulder??
Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
In fairness Gnevin, and anyone else waiting to have their predictable pops at Ulster football, they were two very average teams playing in absolutely shite conditions. You were never gonna get a great free flowing game when good handling and keeping your footing was so difficult.
I'll reserve judgement on Ulster until Tyrone and Armagh .
To be honest I never saw a replay and can't remember too well, but I thought he went after him and striked.
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 05:20:18 PM
To be honest I never saw a replay and can't remember too well, but I thought he went after him and striked.
Just saw it again there, maybe it was right...
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:15:56 PM
Aidan Carr's foul was hardly worth a red card?????????
On first look I thought was just a push and was a very harsh decision. Both RTÉ and BBC pundits thought he deserved it though. Very poor second half though Fermanagh never fail to surprise me - great performance from Carson up front. Think that was just 2 average enough teams but given the draw Fermanagh can definetly be aiming for another Ulster final.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
In fairness Gnevin, and anyone else waiting to have their predictable pops at Ulster football, they were two very average teams playing in absolutely shite conditions. You were never gonna get a great free flowing game when good handling and keeping your footing was so difficult.
I'll reserve judgement on Ulster until Tyrone and Armagh .
Thankfully the province of Ulster does not care too much for your judgement.
This, the province that has produced a team to win 4 out of the last 7 All-Ireland championships.
Leinster, on the other hand, are yet to win it this century.
I'll not even start on Dublin.
Yea TAM seemed like just a push to me too??? I dunno would like a bit of a closer look again
Well done to Fermanagh who once again stood up to the plate when asked of them, however to say Down were woeful is and understatement. They reminded me of that old kit kat ad, - you can't sing, you can't dance and you look awful. Down are a poor, poor football team who cannot do any of the basics of football at all.
None of Carson's frees were overly hard or in any way spectacular, but had he been playing last year Fermanagh would've won Ulster, all they needed was a decent free-taker.
Poor game in brutal conditions by two average enough teams, but as said before Fermanagh have a great opportunity of another Ulster final. Still think Donegal will get to the final though.
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
Yea TAM seemed like just a push to me too??? I dunno would like a bit of a closer look again
Think it def was a red, closed fist shove into back of mc graths head, pure petulance, plus he's on my fantasy football team so I'm personally disappointed >:(
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 17, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
Yea TAM seemed like just a push to me too??? I dunno would like a bit of a closer look again
Think it def was a red, closed fist shove into back of mc graths head, pure petulance, plus he's on my fantasy football team so I'm personally disappointed >:(
Mine too, arsehole >:( :P
Quote from: Zulu on May 17, 2009, 05:33:32 PM
Well done to Fermanagh who once again stood up to the plate when asked of them, however to say Down were woeful is and understatement. They reminded me of that old kit kat ad, - you can't sing, you can't dance and you look awful. Down are a poor, poor football team who cannot do any of the basics of football at all.
Totally agree with you there.In the first half in particular Down couldnt tackle,they had 2 players booked for high tackles that an under 12 wouldnt be stupid enough to make,they must have give away another 3 fouls for players coming in with their feet when a fermanagh man was bending down to pick the ball up.In the second half, the only tactic they had was to play a high ball into a half fit benny coulter and peter fitzpatrick.No down players were up there to support them.Ross will be gone after downs next defeat.Def a red card for A Carr
Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2009, 05:45:03 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 17, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
Yea TAM seemed like just a push to me too??? I dunno would like a bit of a closer look again
Think it def was a red, closed fist shove into back of mc graths head, pure petulance, plus he's on my fantasy football team so I'm personally disappointed >:(
Mine too, arsehole >:( :P
mine too >:( only consolation is that most people would have him. half back who takes frees
Quote from: DaUmpire on May 17, 2009, 05:56:31 PM
.Ross will be gone after downs next defeat.
Will he last that long?
After 3 wasted years why waste another 7 weeks?
As Bolly said on TV, Down are "managerless".
How many times do we have to prove that?
Aidan Carrs actions were a disgrace. It was a Fermanagh free, and he walked 5 yards and pushed Marty McGrath in the back of the head. It was a straight red. Fair play to McGrath who got straight back up, and no retaliation from the Fermanagh players but he definetley deserved to go.
As for the match, Down were, yet again, tactically outclassed. Fermanagh worked harder and had the more composure at the vital stage of the game and ran out thoroughly deserving winners. I'd imagine that will be Ross' last game in the Ulster Championship and Down could do with a Malachy O'Rourke as the next appointment. Danny Hughes was really the only positive. His energy and enthusiasm is a joy to watch at times, he covered some ground and can hold his head high, (which he probably will anyway). ;)
Donegal 95', Tyrone 96', Antrim 00', Tyrone 03', Tyrone 05', Tyrone 06', Wexford 08', Fermanagh 09'. Am I right in saying Downs last Championship win in the rain is the 1994 All Ireland Final?
That was a very abject performance from Down. Over the past couple of years on this board I have always voiced my support for Ross's regime. However, I expected more today. This was a perfect game for Down to emerge victorious from. Fermanagh are distinctly average at best and similarly I thought that our bunch of average players could have outwitted them.
I know that this Down team is very limited. The National League campaign proved that. However, I thought that we would have had 15 players to just about beat Fermanagh. Obviously not.
The team selection for todays game wasn't right. Kevin Duffin was given his Championship debut having hardly got a sniff of football during the League. Although he is probably our best option at full back, Peter Turley clearly wasnt up to match fitness as he was a non participant in the League. Conor Garvey was played at centre half back having been utilised at wing back and full back during the League. Aidan Carr was shunted to centre half forward having played at wing back for most of the League. Ronan Murtagh was lost around the middle and im struggling to find what he offers this Down team at the moment. Peter Fitzpatrick was used at full forward despite him being the best U-21 midfielder in the country this year while McComiskey was dragged out in the 2nd half and made to play in an un-customary wing forward role.
Danny Hughes' deployment out the field was about the only success in the re-jigged setup. Constantly changing player's positions is bound to affect their mental build up to games. It also stifles any chance of strategic patterns of play actually working.
The biggest c**k up of all was the persistent 'hail mary' ball in to Coulter and Fitzpatrick in the 2nd half. We went 25 minutes without scoring with that tactic but yet nothing changed. That was a managerial error of insurmountable proportions and one which went a long way in condemning us to defeat.
Fermanagh were an ordinary side. However, they seemed more organised, more comfortable on the ball and they tended to execute the basics to a better degree than Down.
The big question for us is where we go from here? It will take a big effort to keep boys interested now as there isnt a game for another 8 weeks. It will be great to see the boys back playing for their clubs but ultimately we would have rather wanted to be looking forward to a game against Cavan.
Ross and co have one last chance of redemption in the Qualifiers. However, I just cant see a long run in the back door ensuing. The future for our current crop of Seniors looks very bleak at the moment.
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 17, 2009, 06:32:10 PM
Aidan Carrs actions were a disgrace. It was a Fermanagh free, and he walked 5 yards and pushed Marty McGrath in the back of the head. It was a straight red. Fair play to McGrath who got straight back up, and no retaliation from the Fermanagh players but he definetley deserved to go.
As for the match, Down were, yet again, tactically outclassed. Fermanagh worked harder and had the more composure at the vital stage of the game and ran out thoroughly deserving winners. I'd imagine that will be Ross' last game in the Ulster Championship and Down could do with a Malachy O'Rourke as the next appointment. Danny Hughes was really the only positive. His energy and enthusiasm is a joy to watch at times, he covered some ground and can hold his head high, (which he probably will anyway). ;)
Donegal 95', Tyrone 96', Antrim 00', Tyrone 03', Tyrone 05', Tyrone 06', Wexford 08', Fermanagh 09'. Am I right in saying Downs last Championship win in the rain is the 1994 All Ireland Final?
Great second half performance by fermanagh, really stood up when it was needed and totally deserved their victory. Glad lads like Crason showed the promise that he has proven for many years in club football in the county. Other lads to step up to the plate today were James Sherry, Ryan Keenan and Tommy McElroy. Pete Sherry also had an extremely good second half, especially when most supporters would have felt that the loss of Clucker would have negatively affected the team.
As for Aidan Carr's sending off, it was hardly a disgrace dangerous person. It was pure frustration at the way the second half had panned out and while the ref had blown for a free he pushed marty in the back/neck, it was definately a yellow but not sure it warranted more than that. Wont matter anyway as by the time the qualifiers come it will be July and the suspension will be long up by that stage.
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 05:17:49 PM
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:15:56 PM
Aidan Carr's foul was hardly worth a red card?????????
Did he not strike?
I thought it was just a tough shoulder??
Sort of feel for Carr, McGrath & that other bollock McDermott were throwin sly digs all day and didn't get caught. Can't blame Ross Carr, he has about 5 inter county players to work with, the rest are average club players & average at that
Does Sexton not play for Down anymore ?
Quote from: Tommy Tibbs on May 17, 2009, 06:51:14 PM
Quote from: Dangerous Person on May 17, 2009, 06:32:10 PM
Aidan Carrs actions were a disgrace. It was a Fermanagh free, and he walked 5 yards and pushed Marty McGrath in the back of the head. It was a straight red. Fair play to McGrath who got straight back up, and no retaliation from the Fermanagh players but he definetley deserved to go.
As for the match, Down were, yet again, tactically outclassed. Fermanagh worked harder and had the more composure at the vital stage of the game and ran out thoroughly deserving winners. I'd imagine that will be Ross' last game in the Ulster Championship and Down could do with a Malachy O'Rourke as the next appointment. Danny Hughes was really the only positive. His energy and enthusiasm is a joy to watch at times, he covered some ground and can hold his head high, (which he probably will anyway). ;)
Donegal 95', Tyrone 96', Antrim 00', Tyrone 03', Tyrone 05', Tyrone 06', Wexford 08', Fermanagh 09'. Am I right in saying Downs last Championship win in the rain is the 1994 All Ireland Final?
Great second half performance by fermanagh, really stood up when it was needed and totally deserved their victory. Glad lads like Crason showed the promise that he has proven for many years in club football in the county. Other lads to step up to the plate today were James Sherry, Ryan Keenan and Tommy McElroy. Pete Sherry also had an extremely good second half, especially when most supporters would have felt that the loss of Clucker would have negatively affected the team.
As for Aidan Carr's sending off, it was hardly a disgrace dangerous person. It was pure frustration at the way the second half had panned out and while the ref had blown for a free he pushed marty in the back/neck, it was definately a yellow but not sure it warranted more than that. Wont matter anyway as by the time the qualifiers come it will be July and the suspension will be long up by that stage.
Maybe disgrace is a bit far, but for one of the more senior members of the team, he should have known better. It was petulent and cynical and I thought fully deserving of a red. We can't condone that sort of behaviour. Also, I think the rules are that he will have to miss at least one match for the county if there is no games during the course of the suspension, so he will miss the first round of qualifiers.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on May 17, 2009, 06:58:10 PM
Does Sexton not play for Down anymore ?
He is on the panel but doesnt start.
That was a deeply disturbing perfrormance.
There is a lot of merit in the idea of playing an early, direct ball into ball-winning forwards. What Down teams over the past five years, and especially so today, don't seem to understand is:
1. The only teams who have had genuine success with this tactic in the past decade were Armagh, Galway and Kerry. In each instance, they had a frontline partnership (McDonnell and Clarke, Joyce and Savage, Donaghy and Walsh), who worked together in training and throughout the winters to create an almost subconscious understanding of how to play with each other; their lines of running, when to break, where to break, when to shoot, where to shoot. Down went through 3 partners for Coulter today alone, and must be in double figures for the past 5 years. A two-man, ball-winning full-forward line works as the result of practice, patience and application, not from hope or desparation.
2. Teams these days do need a preferred tactic - Tyrone and Kerry are the perfect examples of how and why. But the point about Tyrone in particular is that it is a preferred tactic... and not the only tactic. One ball was pumped into Coulter today from 50 metres when there were four men surrounding him. Yes your managers want you to play the ball in long, but for fucks sake, when that option isn't actually an option, you don't have to pursue it! Carry the ball, hold it it up, dink it in front, whatever. It doesn't matter. Just don't kick aimless ball away in the name of tactics.
Conor Maginn might look out of his depth at senior level, but he's probably the only player in the squad who would have continued to play a sensible game instead of following orders that just weren't working.
And further to this, the points raised above about why players were selected today to play in positions that they have had no competitive action in, are completely on the mark. If Ross and DJ spent less time trying to bamboozle opposing managers with their selections, and more time focusing on making sure their own players are aware of their roles - not just for a y playergame, but for a whole campaign - then let's just say it would make a difference.
This ultimately is the difference between coaches like Mickey Harte, Joe Kernan, Jason Ryan and Malachy O'Rourke, and the vast majority of county managers, our current incumbents included. They don't leave it to chance and hope players can wing it on the day. They create a system and tell players what to do.
Down's players frankly looked lost today.
Carr has to take a good bit of the blame,
a Full Back who wasnt match fit
One of the best young midfielders in the game today at full forward
Starting Benny Coulter when he wasnt near fit and would have been much better suited to have been brought on in the second half.
Where are the likes of
Martin Cole
James Colgan
Michael Walsh
Ronan Sexton
John Clarke?????
I know Ambrose Rodgers and Liam Doyle are injured,but the 5 named are much better than some of the players down had playing today. Whats the problems there?
I tipped Fermanagh for the game based on what I seen when Cavan went over to Newry to play down with a team full of new, inexperienced players. It was a dirty wet windy evening and Down showed signs f not liking to get down and dirty and fight. Fermanagh are the opposite, they like a war. It is hard to come up with some tactic to beat Fermanagh out the gate in Enniskillen as they will get men behind the ball. Its all about attitude and work rate and balls at that stage. I questioned if Down had these skills and I think we know the answer today. The question is will Cavan be any different for Fermanagh and I'm not sure.
I dont think Down won a breaking ball through the whole game, either in the middle or in front of goals. They had Dan Gordon to win clean ball in the middle but Fermanagh spoiled most of the catches and the 2 forwards were far too isolated and it was easy enough for the Fermanagh backs to deal with. Fair enough Down had the winning of the game but Coulter despite his fantastic point from the corner, wasnt going to get to do much with the quality of ball that was going into him. Ryan Carson was a good find for Fermanagh, good ball winner and a reliable free-taker. Fermanagh aren't near the form of last year but considering the conditions aswell they will improve as the weeks go by.
From a fermanagh point of view a decent performance.
Great defensive performance. All the defenders played very well. H Brady played very well on a half fit Benny Coulter.
T McElroy never stopped running and Shane McDermott played very well.
James Sherry had a great game but Dan Gordon bossed midfield and Marty did not have one of his better days in a Green shirt.
Maxi dropped back and won an awful amount of dirty ball. Lyttle was quiet and R Keenan showed well.
Carson had a great debut and the wee man in the corner got through an awful amount of work.
Fermanagh have a game plan and its awful hard to play against.
Down played liked headless chickens in the second half. Their only tactic was to launch the ball on top of the full forward line.
Your management team was hopeless. How the Down full back stayed on the field is beyond me.
Now onto Cavan. Never beat them in the Ulster Championship. Have one of the best forwards in Ireland in Johnston.
They will be confident of beating us in their back patch and if we are to win an Ulster, it would make it all the sweeter if we beat
our neighbours on route.
Fermanagh will take alot of confidence form this victory
Barry Owens may be back, D kelly and Goan should be fit. Clucker will be a doubt.
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 05:24:34 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: AFS on May 17, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
In fairness Gnevin, and anyone else waiting to have their predictable pops at Ulster football, they were two very average teams playing in absolutely shite conditions. You were never gonna get a great free flowing game when good handling and keeping your footing was so difficult.
I'll reserve judgement on Ulster until Tyrone and Armagh .
Thankfully the province of Ulster does not care too much for your judgement.
This, the province that has produced a team to win 4 out of the last 7 All-Ireland championships.
Leinster, on the other hand, are yet to win it this century.
I'll not even start on Dublin.
But it cares a little? Great i'm making progress so . ::)
Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
In what way was a grame with 57 frees and terrible aimless kicking decent?
Congragulations Fermanagh on fully deserved win. Down were disorganised, at times dirty, sluggish and uncommitted. Resignation should not be an option for Carr at this stage, him and his team must be dismissed now, before we suffer further humiliation by losing to some team like Carlow in the qualifiers. He never had the ability to manage a football team at any level, and this should now be clear to all. If he is not removed before the qualifiers, then Down supporters should vote with their feet and stay home. It will be for the long term good of football in the County. Pete Mc Grath should be asked to take over for the remainder of what will be a short campaign, and try to restore a little credibility and pride.
Very Rarely are first round games classics Gnevin
Most teams havent had a "competitive" match in at least 3/4 weeks.
Always littered with mistakes.
Case in point
Last Year, Down/Tyrone draw in Omagh,while not a bad match was littered with too errors and mistakes,
The Replay in Newry the week after was for me the Best match of the year in the championship.
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 07:39:04 PM
Very Rarely are first round games classics Gnevin
Most teams havent had a "competitive" match in at least 3/4 weeks.
Always littered with mistakes.
Case in point
Last Year, Down/Tyrone draw in Omagh,while not a bad match was littered with too errors and mistakes,
The Replay in Newry the week after was for me the Best match of the year in the championship.
I didn't excpet a classic but a semi decent game of football would of been nice, the errors made too day would be called dire at Junior B level , let alone Inter County .
Not very inspiring. Inter county players who can't tackle or pass accurately- astonishing. Good God please bring back the experimental rules if thats all thats on offer.
For fighting spirit, determination and will to win Fermanagh deserved ti hands down. But the lack of the basics was beyond belief quite frankly from both teams. And down fans need to consider what happens their underage players at senior level. How can stars at u21 level look so average at senior level. Its an epidemic in down football at this stage.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
In what way was a grame with 57 frees and terrible aimless kicking decent?
f**k sake gnevin you've your opinion on the game and so do other people, you've made your point, leave it at that.
How can stars at u21 level look so average at senior level.
Simple answer.....Management, and the present Down Senior Management are so incompetent that a good U12 player should not be placed in their care
Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2009, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
In what way was a grame with 57 frees and terrible aimless kicking decent?
f**k sake gnevin you've your opinion on the game and so do other people, you've made your point, leave it at that.
Sorry ,I must be lost. Can you direct me to the
discussion board?
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2009, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
In what way was a grame with 57 frees and terrible aimless kicking decent?
f**k sake gnevin you've your opinion on the game and so do other people, you've made your point, leave it at that.
Sorry ,I must be lost. Can you direct me to the discussion board?
Yes, this is a discussion board, that's why youre free to say it was a shit game if that's what you think and someone else who enjoyed it can express their opinions.
Resorvoirdubs have a discussion board, but they rarely have much to discuss
Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2009, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on May 17, 2009, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 17, 2009, 06:40:31 PM
I was expecting that game to be dire but thought it was pretty decent. Down are an indisciplined shambles with no descernible game plan.
Has Pete McGrath been away long enough to be considered for a possible return?
In what way was a grame with 57 frees and terrible aimless kicking decent?
f**k sake gnevin you've your opinion on the game and so do other people, you've made your point, leave it at that.
Sorry ,I must be lost. Can you direct me to the discussion board?
Yes, this is a discussion board, that's why youre free to say it was a shit game if that's what you think and someone else who enjoyed it can express their opinions.
I see but I'm not allow to ask them why they thought it was good or too counter my points as to why I though it was bad? I see .
Quote from: Pangurban on May 17, 2009, 07:48:25 PM
How can stars at u21 level look so average at senior level.
Simple answer.....Management, and the present Down Senior Management are so incompetent that a good U12 player should not be placed in their care
I find it extraordinary in Down - I mean I couldn't believe I was watching the same players. from u21 level I would have though that being from Ulster was supposed to improve your tackling not make it worse. Just pure lazy at times.
I enjoyed the first half. The 2nd half was diabolical though- like watching a bad junior B game.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 17, 2009, 07:37:55 PM
Congragulations Fermanagh on fully deserved win. Down were disorganised, at times dirty, sluggish and uncommitted. Resignation should not be an option for Carr at this stage, him and his team must be dismissed now, before we suffer further humiliation by losing to some team like Carlow in the qualifiers. He never had the ability to manage a football team at any level, and this should now be clear to all. If he is not removed before the qualifiers, then Down supporters should vote with their feet and stay home. It will be for the long term good of football in the County. Pete Mc Grath should be asked to take over for the remainder of what will be a short campaign, and try to restore a little credibility and pride.
Its highly unlikely that Ross and Co. will leave or get ousted before the Qualifier game.
Quote from: DownFanatic on May 17, 2009, 07:55:51 PM
Quote from: Pangurban on May 17, 2009, 07:37:55 PM
Congragulations Fermanagh on fully deserved win. Down were disorganised, at times dirty, sluggish and uncommitted. Resignation should not be an option for Carr at this stage, him and his team must be dismissed now, before we suffer further humiliation by losing to some team like Carlow in the qualifiers. He never had the ability to manage a football team at any level, and this should now be clear to all. If he is not removed before the qualifiers, then Down supporters should vote with their feet and stay home. It will be for the long term good of football in the County. Pete Mc Grath should be asked to take over for the remainder of what will be a short campaign, and try to restore a little credibility and pride.
Its highly unlikely that Ross and Co. will leave or get ousted before the Qualifier game.
Sure what would be the point from what I seen today it would be unlikely anyone got improve Down in the 7 weeks they'd have. Best to leave them in and have someone new build for next year after the qualifiers .
Then that is a shame and disgrace
just in from enniskillen. embarrassed to be a down man. my reports on downs league games would apply nearly to the letter with for that performance. no game plan, no structure - don't even look like a team. as someone pointed out already junior B football. the biggest embarrassment was that the game was live on national tv.
referee was shocking but down deserved nothing more from the game.
downfanatic im sure even you (forever the optimist) wouldn't be confident going into the qualifiers.
It was apparent from the body language of the Down team as they stood for the Anthem that they were not there with any great belief. Fermanagh stood arm in arm, while the Down players slouched individually.
A poor quality game, it had preliminary round written all over it.
Have to agree with Brolly....Down were managerless. Another low for Down football. Would like to be a fly on the wall in the Carr household this evening.
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 07:39:04 PM
Very Rarely are first round games classics Gnevin
Most teams havent had a "competitive" match in at least 3/4 weeks.
Always littered with mistakes.
Case in point
Last Year, Down/Tyrone draw in Omagh,while not a bad match was littered with too errors and mistakes,
The Replay in Newry the week after was for me the Best match of the year in the championship.
I didn't excpet a classic but a semi decent game of football would of been nice, the errors made too day would be called dire at Junior B level , let alone Inter County .
Yes Gnevin, speaking of errors... ::)
First things first - congratulations to Fermanagh, who had a game plan, had the confidence to stick to it when things were not gong well, and finished the stronger and fitter team. They never played as well as they did last summer, but, in the final quarter at least, they did not have to.
From a Down point of view, it was another deeply frustrating and depressing day. We were in a winning position in the third quarter, and missed some simple chances which could almost have wrapped the game up, and then lost our way completely.
A couple of dodgy frees brought Fermanagh back into it, we fell apart and it was all very hard to watch. As everyone has been queuing up to point out, the long ball into an unfit Benny was not working but we stuck to it relentlessly. Our substitutions did not work, and arguably made matters worse, so it was a bad day for the management.
Naming a spoof team, and making wholesale changes before the throw-in, is a dubious approach, which was never going to confuse a shrewd operator like Malachy O'Rourke, and we end up with players switching to roles which they were never given the opportunity to try out in the league.
It's easy to be wise after the event, but throwing Benny on in the final quarter when we were struggling would have given us a big lift. He was pretty obviously only fit for around 20 minutes, he did get a wonder point shortly after the break but he looked a forlorn figure lolng before the end.
Our defence, amazingly enough, was reasonable until the closing stages, and Turley, given his lack of match practice, competed well. Howard and Rafferty were OK, and McVeigh did not have a shot to save and placed his kick-outs effectively.
Duffin was ordinary, Garvey had his moments but faded, and Rooney saw a lot of the ball but his only idea seemed to be finding a tightly marked Benny. Murphy, if he was fit, should have been in.
Dan was good in the first half, but probably was not fully match fit and his influence declined progressively. Kearney was in and out, took one good point and may have been taken off too soon.
Carr looked well out of sorts after his move to the attack, Murtagh worked hard without achieving too much and Hughes, despite a couple of misses, was probably our best player.
McComiskey had his moments, but did not really sparkle, and Fitzpatrick was excellent in the first half but his inexperience showed when he gave away possession cheaply on two crucial occasions in the second.
We have a friendly against Dublin next week to open the Carryduff pitch, but it will be a long tough wait until the qualifiers and we can only be apprehensive about our prospects.
Finally, in response to a query from a previous poster, the last time we won a championship match in the rain was against Donegal at Clones in the preliminary round of 1996. Some things never seem to change.
On another note, someone above suggested that Down have only 4 or 5 county standard players.
This is a load of nonsense.
Nearly every Down player today has played in All-Ireland finals at minor, under-21 or Sigerson level. Meaning that at least one stage they were as good as any of their peers in the country.
Quote from: Ping Pong Santa on May 17, 2009, 08:15:15 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on May 17, 2009, 07:42:29 PM
Quote from: BallyhaiseMan on May 17, 2009, 07:39:04 PM
Very Rarely are first round games classics Gnevin
Most teams havent had a "competitive" match in at least 3/4 weeks.
Always littered with mistakes.
Case in point
Last Year, Down/Tyrone draw in Omagh,while not a bad match was littered with too errors and mistakes,
The Replay in Newry the week after was for me the Best match of the year in the championship.
I didn't excpet a classic but a semi decent game of football would of been nice, the errors made too day would be called dire at Junior B level , let alone Inter County .
Yes Gnevin, speaking of errors... ::)
Well that's my argument shot to bits. I guess I'll have concede it was the best game of football ever now .
Quote from: behind the wire on May 17, 2009, 08:04:14 PM
just in from enniskillen. embarrassed to be a down man. my reports on downs league games would apply nearly to the letter with for that performance. no game plan, no structure - don't even look like a team. as someone pointed out already junior B football. the biggest embarrassment was that the game was live on national tv.
referee was shocking but down deserved nothing more from the game.
downfanatic im sure even you (forever the optimist) wouldn't be confident going into the qualifiers.
Not overly confident. We have one last go of it and hopefully we can learn from our mistakes. A settled starting XV is crucial. We may sneak a win or two in the backdoor but that will be the height of it.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2009, 08:18:55 PM
On another note, someone above suggested that Down have only 4 or 5 county standard players.
This is a load of nonsense.
Nearly every Down player today has played in All-Ireland finals at minor, under-21 or Sigerson level. Meaning that at least one stage they were as good as any of their peers in the country.
In fairness wobbler that doesn't make them IC standard senior players, I felt before today that Down were an average team, they were beaten by Tipp and Wexford in the past 12 months after all, but after today I'd have to say Down are a very poor team. It can't all be Carr's fault, you would expect senior IC players to modify the tactics if they are blatantly not working, you would expect IC players to be able to fist pass the ball accurately or to know when to fist or kick pass. Although I thought some of the frees Fermanagh got in the second half were soft the Down players were woeful in the tackle and it was quite easy for Fermanagh to get a run on them. Minor and U21 AI's are of little value if that is what is being produced at senior level.
Hope reigns eternal in Down Fanatics Heart and i applaud him for that, but when Ross and Co have learned nothing in 3 yrs. we are unlikely to see them find a Brain in 6 weeks
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2009, 08:18:55 PM
On another note, someone above suggested that Down have only 4 or 5 county standard players.
This is a load of nonsense.
Nearly every Down player today has played in All-Ireland finals at minor, under-21 or Sigerson level. Meaning that at least one stage they were as good as any of their peers in the country.
Perhaps that was me wobbler. I didn't mean it in a degrading way, but apart from the team which started today, Howard, Gordon, Carr, Hughes, Benny & McCommisky who else would you class as senior inter county players. producing it at minor & U21 level is a completely different ball game. The amount of time you have on the ball is that little bit less & less every grade you step up.
I was at the Tryone reply last year & they were brilliant that night in Newry & only for Darling Pat from Farney tryone would have been up the road much sooner, not that it meant much in September.
Pete McGrath isn't the answer either, there is to much baggage. A fresh face from outside the county is whats needed I think who has no agenda's regarding selections etc, which seem to have cost Down some of their better players in recent times.
Quote from: Zulu on May 17, 2009, 08:36:59 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 17, 2009, 08:18:55 PM
On another note, someone above suggested that Down have only 4 or 5 county standard players.
This is a load of nonsense.
Nearly every Down player today has played in All-Ireland finals at minor, under-21 or Sigerson level. Meaning that at least one stage they were as good as any of their peers in the country.
In fairness wobbler that doesn't make them IC standard senior players, I felt before today that Down were an average team, they were beaten by Tipp and Wexford in the past 12 months after all, but after today I'd have to say Down are a very poor team. It can't all be Carr's fault, you would expect senior IC players to modify the tactics if they are blatantly not working, you would expect IC players to be able to fist pass the ball accurately or to know when to fist or kick pass. Although I thought some of the frees Fermanagh got in the second half were soft the Down players were woeful in the tackle and it was quite easy for Fermanagh to get a run on them. Minor and U21 AI's are of little value if that is what is being produced at senior level.
I would agree with all of that but you would expect over a 10 year period - not all their underage players would dis-improve at senior level. Never seen anywhere like it.
Down dont hire managers from outside, and rightly so
Down for as long as ive seen them have always struggled when they come up against teams implementing any sort of efficient defensive system.
They have lots of players who are very good on the ball and have all the skills and if allowed the time and space to play,will play nearly any team off the park.
Last year against Tyrone in the replay,While Tyrone were no slouches,They werent as tight defensively as they were later in the year,
Down played Fabulous stuff that night.
However when put under serious pressure,a lack of a game plan,leads the same players to be made look very ordinary.
They have always played good stuff against Cavan,because of our lack of any defensive organisation , game plan and an absence of tight marking and willingness to participate in a shoot-out.
For Down to progress i believe they will have to look into adopting some parts of the defensive systems we have seen from Fermanagh/Tyrone/Armagh over the years,even if not to the extreme levels of say Fermanagh last year.
They have enough to work with in the county to be a damn sight better than they were today.
Defensive football has had its day as will be demonstrated during the Summer by some of the better attack minded teams
Aidan Carr's sending off looked shocking. Did I miss something ?
Quote from: Pangurban on May 17, 2009, 09:03:38 PM
Defensive football has had its day as will be demonstrated during the Summer by some of the better attack minded teams
You're leaving your options fairly open there, names?
it wasn't all good for fermanagh with down minors destroying them, here is the highlights of the game for those who missed it
Down destroyed Fermanagh Minors 1-12 to 0-4 (http://armaghgaa.info/forum/f11/fermanagh-vs-down-minors-highlights-152/)
Down seniors just weren't hungry enough to win it and tried long balls in during the second half to two of the smallest lads on the pitch. plan a didn't work and there didn't seem to be a plan b.
Very disappointing performance from Down. As Tipp showed in the league, if you run at that Down defence they fall to pieces. Some of the frees they conceded were simply down to a lack of ability and brain. It's ok tidily building from defence (as the Tally stamp showed), unless you can defend as well on the back foot you'll go nowhere.
Keeping Benny on was a major boob. But nothing surprises me anymore about Carr. Listening to the man last year in the Wellie Park was a real eye opener. He thinks he talks a good game. What he actually says is utter garbage, with little tactical basis. Great player, shit manager.
I do think Pete McGrath would've won that game today, although that's a step many Down men don't seem to want to consider. But, if you want a manager from within the county, he's your man.
Fermanagh - your manager is a shrewd operator. He knows how to win games, no matter the opposition. You could actually build up a wee head of steam here and make amends for last year. Baby-steps.
I don`t often agree with Brolly but he was correct when he said Down were managerless.
I rarely, if ever, miss a game and I posted a report on the first game of the national league where I was very critical of the Down display both on and off the field. Ross stood and watched the game go by in Thurles like a disinterested spectator, he has got worse as the season has gone on. DJ is a clown, plain and simple. He likes to be heard and give the impression of being the man, but in truth they are both out of their depth. I don't really know if Peter McGrath is the logical choice to replace them though. I have always thought that we need an outsider to try and whip us into shape, if the county board are not willing to appoint an outsider then for me Wee James can do no worse than what we have endured over the last 3 years and more.
The players also have to accept their share of the blame, its alright talking about systems and styles of play, but good players should be able to adapt quickly. The entire team today looked tired and uninterested at times. Down have been leaderless for too many games on the field and the high of beating Tyrone last year has been forgotten because of the displays against Armagh, Wexford and most of the Division 3 campaign.
I will be at the next game and I`ll be back for the Division 2 campaign next year, if Ross and DJ are stuck for a lift to the away games I`ll happily provide one. They have had their go and failed, its time for someone else to give it a shot. They have shown yet again that great players don't make great managers.
Aidan Carrs challenge was a rash one, but it didnt merit a red card. Maybe now the rest of the team will be allowed to take the odd free, its a wonder he doesnt take the kick outs as well. ::)
Well done to Fermanagh on a deserved victory. If your players had shown belief in their shooting last year like they did today you would have won Ulster, good luck in the rest of the campaign, you have my support.
Good win for the lads today. Carson looks handy if unspectacular as the free taker doubling as the big man up front. Anything keeping mcbarron out of the team is most certainly progress.
Anyone saying that defensive football has had it's day is just talking out of their hat, Fermanagh have a solid defense but little up front so what other way can you expect us to play, nobodies in the business of taking admirable five point defeats. Combine this with the fact that we have the smallest pick in Ireland (I think correct me if wrong...) and just competing will suffice, Shite football or not Gnevin...
My point precisely lol
General view today was Carr out. For a number of reasons
-faliure to take Aidan off.
-Leaving Mccomiskey on and taking Murtagh off!
-Lack of urgency in making changes
-unable to see that High ball wasn't working.
Personally I want Pete Mcgrath as I doubt the U21s would have won Ulster never mind coming a kick from All-Ireland without him. The 2nd half against Armagh was superb and some nice changes and tactics involved.
Ross is too long new a this stage.
The only decent thing about today was Peter Turleys performance, at last a strong defender. He may have only showed gilimirs.
And I'd bet money we get the losers of Tyrone Armagh or Dublin Meath, always the way.
Down out to 66/1 to bring Sam Maguire home to the Mournes in September.
Quote from: down6061689194 on May 17, 2009, 09:58:35 PM
General view today was Carr out. For a number of reasons
-faliure to take Aidan off.
-Leaving Mccomiskey on and taking Murtagh off!
-Lack of urgency in making changes
-unable to see that High ball wasn't working.
Personally I want Pete Mcgrath as I doubt the U21s would have won Ulster never mind coming a kick from All-Ireland without him. The 2nd half against Armagh was superb and some nice changes and tactics involved.
Ross is too long new a this stage.
The only decent thing about today was Peter Turleys performance, at last a strong defender. He may have only showed gilimirs.
And I'd bet money we get the losers of Tyrone Armagh or Dublin Meath, always the way.
FFS what match you watching turley fouled all day his man even got man of the match.
as a neutral i have to say the down management looked lost today. before the match i had a sneaky feeling they would win, and they probably would have if the right calls were made. don't think it was wise sacrificing a fully fit player to have benny coulter starting, can't for the world of me understand this mindset in down that they can't play/win without him ??? delivery into the forwards was useless and the fouling by the backs was pathetic. it seems to me down underestimated fermanagh in this respect, a man on his championship debut got motm and fair play, though it wouldn't have been the case if it was Tyrone/Derry/Monaghan or even Armagh that they were up against. ross carr talks a good game but the bluffings over, he has been found out - time to push on.
Just home after a few celebratory post game pints. It is absolutely amazing what a good result for your county in the championship can do for spirits in the community. As for the match I thought it was a fairly decent standard considering the conditions and there were a few encouraging performances froma Fermanagh perspective. Ciaran McElroy got through an immense amount of work and won countless breaking balls, Blobby made a very good start as our answer to our FF and free taker problems, Tommy McElroy in my eyes is amongst the very best wing halfs in the game. Things are looking more positive than a few weeks back and we have Barry Owens and Ciaran O'Reilly to come into the mix. Can't wait til the next battle on 6th June. Another tough game awaits...............
I know howCarr and Kane must feel tonight but as a manager of a football team,and of a county football team you have to face up to standing watching for 25 mins the same mistake being made over and over again and not knowing that something has to be changed this is basic manegerial skills that are not being demonstrated so come on guys its hard to admit your wrong be even more demoralising to let this happen time and time again its time to face facts
Somewhere else on this thread before the game i had to challenge some idiot who suggested that John Boyle was the new Greg Blaney. I pointed out that he can't mark, cvan't tackle and when he does get the ball just wants to de wee soccer turns back twards his own goal.
Just the sort of player you want to bring on when you are playing sh**te against Fermanagh.
First action, a juvenile foul on the 21 in front of goal for an easy Fermanagh point.
Second action was more of a gesture to a Fermnagh player like an usher at a wedding than it was a tackle.
If our management think we can go anywhere with players of intermediate club standard while Walsh and Clark are at home and Cole is left warming his arse in the stand, then we deserve days like this.
And if they think you can take on a well organised tight outfit like Fermanagh with team selection gimmicks, untried players in infamiliar positions and brainless tactics, then I'm sorry but we should aspire to better in Down.
The season is over. For God's sake put the county out of its misery by bringing in new management now and building now for next season. To say there is no point in changing at this stage is to abandon any idea of rescuing anything from these dismal ashes.
It is beyond a joke at this stage.
I suspect most of those criticising Turley were watching on tv rather than attending the game. Watching from the stand you could see that he brought a physical presence to our defence which had been missing in the league, was solid under high balls and showed a fair amount of pace. Carson scored a single point from play against him, and got a couple of generous frees as well, but our problems today were much further out the field.
It was a strange sort of match in many ways, as the atmosphere was flat most of the time and between the rain and live tv coverage the ground was probably only around half full.
Fermanagh, if they can get Owens and McCluskey fit, and McCabe comes back as well, must have a decent chance of getting back to the Ulster final, but it is still hard to see them winning it.
Every other county will want Down in the qualifiers, although we should have a fully fit Dan, Ambrose and Benny by then. However, the combination of an under pressure management and a general lack of confidence all round is likely to mean a short summer for us.
Quote from: downgirl on May 17, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
Yea TAM seemed like just a push to me too??? I dunno would like a bit of a closer look again
was right in front of me i was in the 2nd row--was deffo a sending off--Carr went out of his way to follow McGrath and pushed him in the back of the head with 2 raised hands--not the worst strike ever(you couldnt even call it a strike) but he had no need to do it, followed McGrath raised both hands and pushed him to back of head--the ref had no other option than to send him off--Carr was purely frustrated and lost the head
Dark day for all Down men!!
Having been to game & watching it on tv there now Im convinced we had the game in the bag.
After half-time we had chance to pull away but poor decision making all day led to Fermanagh dominating the last quarter of the game.
Some of the players couldnt pass ball 10 yards today, conditions werent an excuse as Fermanagh had to deal with same!
The tactic of playing Benny backfired & Fitzpatrick was success in the 1st half but Fermanagh sorted it out in 2nd half!
McVeigh - Nothing to do all day, kickouts were good.
Howard - Solid enough at corner back
Turley - excellent 1st half found Carson harder to mark when he roamed about.
Rafferty - same as Howard.
Duffin - Struggled all day. Poor passing. Didnt look fit & was lucky to remain on pitch.
Garvey - Thought he kept his man generally quiet, but did little to get forward.
Rooney - Doesnt look fit & seemed slow. Murphy shouldve been used somewhere in HB line.
Gordon - Some great catches, good passer of ball & carries a lot of burden on young shoulders. Kicked couple of poor wides.
Kearney - Kicked great point but couldnt get in the game at all.
Carr - Thought he was poor. Poor passing, one out over end line he couldve fisted to Dan. Strruggled to make an impact in the game. Unfairly sent off.
Coulter - Clearly unfit. Unfair to play the lad full game even though he may have wanted to. Kicked a wonder point.
Murtagh - Goes through a serious amount of work but cant seem to get into games.
Hughes - I totally disagree that he was good today. Kicked first 2 passes out of play & to opposition. wasted chances & took wrong options a lot. Work ethic isnt in question but doesnt deliver enough.
Fitzpatrick - Excellent first 35 & used his frame well but ball in was very poor. Wereas Carson got ball in front early Fitzpatrick had to deal with Garryowen after Garryowen. Forced to try & feed off scraps.
McComiskey - Failed to deliver again. fumbled the ball too much. Couldnt get ball up off the floor & never took on his man all day.
Guervera, you are correct to say that our forward line as a unit did not work today, but Hughes, while he made a couple of mistakes, always made himself available, ran at the opposition and took a couple of great scores. McComiskey also made some handling errors, but he was given a poor supply on a wet day, and still managed to show his ability in flashes.
When we went two points up early in the second half, we had three relatively straightfoward chances for further scores and missed them all. I think Carr, Murtagh and Hughes were at fault, while Fitzpatrick, after starting well, had two dreadful attempts at passes.
If we had taken even one of those opportunities, we would probably have gone on to win, but the evidence is that we would have been papering over the cracks.
Our selection, tactics and substitutions were all flawed, and most of our players went missing when they were needed in the final quarter. It looks like it's back to the drawing board.
Great day, Fermanagh quite simply out fought and out played Down. They were easily the best team. Defensively Fermanagh were as solid as a rock, and finally our forwards started to show some sort of form. Down were awful but, they had no game plan and could not handle fermanaghs defensive system. Surely they had trained knowing Fermanagh were going to play this way. Anyhow my ratings for what they are worth
Breen 7.5: Done well, but in 2nd halfs some kick outs were poor
Brady 8: Did really well, dealed with everythinghe needed too
Lyons 8.5: After an average 1st half, he was excellent in 2nd, great high catching and running from defense
Bogue 7: 1st game for a long time, so done reasonably well.
Clucker 7: done ok, but not by his high standards
Shane 8: His best game in a Ferm jersey for a long time, excellent strength
Tommy McElroy 8: Great Running from defense, and excellent point
Marty 7: Struggled a bit but came good at the end
James Sherry 8.5: Excellent, some great points and great workrate
Little 6: his worst game for a long time, didnt look sharpe, but he tried hard and the next day he will be better
C McElroy 9: His best ever game for the county, worked so hard and excellent point
Ryan K 7.5: Tried hard, won alot of ball, but give too much of it away
Eamon 7.5: Won a ton of ball as usual, excellent workrate as usual
Blobby 9: Great 1st start, showed well for the ball, took on his man and kicked his frees, dream debut
D Keenan 7: Tried hard, got a point, and will improve, could become a star
Subs:
Pete Sherry 8.5: excellent, won every ball that came near him
A previous poster suggested to bring in the new manager now, would it be fair to ask Pete Mc Grath be able to deliver in just 7 weeks?
Quote from: rrhf on May 18, 2009, 08:47:17 AM
A previous poster suggested to bring in the new manager now, would it be fair to ask Pete Mc Grath be able to deliver in just 7 weeks?
If he came in he would have nothing to lose
A poor game IMHO, with no atmosphere
Seemed more like a league game than a championship with the lack of intensity in it
Terrible day for Down lads! hard to see where they can go from here. SOme of their play was simply awful. I thought the game was won from the line. ORourke proved to be much cuter than Carr and at least had a game plan. Im honestly not sure what Downs tactics were and what they were trying to do in the second half.
However, in Carrs defence I just dont think he has the players to work with to be honest.
Quote from: Leo on May 17, 2009, 11:13:55 PM
Somewhere else on this thread before the game i had to challenge some idiot who suggested that John Boyle was the new Greg Blaney. I pointed out that he can't mark, cvan't tackle and when he does get the ball just wants to de wee soccer turns back twards his own goal.
Just the sort of player you want to bring on when you are playing sh**te against Fermanagh.
First action, a juvenile foul on the 21 in front of goal for an easy Fermanagh point.
Second action was more of a gesture to a Fermnagh player like an usher at a wedding than it was a tackle.
If our management think we can go anywhere with players of intermediate club standard while Walsh and Clark are at home and Cole is left warming his arse in the stand, then we deserve days like this.
And if they think you can take on a well organised tight outfit like Fermanagh with team selection gimmicks, untried players in infamiliar positions and brainless tactics, then I'm sorry but we should aspire to better in Down.
The season is over. For God's sake put the county out of its misery by bringing in new management now and building now for next season. To say there is no point in changing at this stage is to abandon any idea of rescuing anything from these dismal ashes.
It is beyond a joke at this stage.
FFS Leo will you give over about John Boyle ? are you waiting for someone to say you were right about him all along ? If only our problems began and ended with one player .
I'll agree that the farce of naming Mickey Mouse teams is a complete waste of time and energy and the inclusion or not of Benny and Dan Gordan would be the only interest to opposing teams , managers or supporters when reading Down team selections . Name the team on a Thursday after training like everyone else and leave it at that , POR was crucified by everyone for not having a plan B , but here we are 3 yrs on and we are still lumping it in on top of Benny . We all know how special he is as a player for Down but when he is clearly not fit or on other days when he is being well marked the management have to be able to say right this isn't working .
I think I heard Pete McGrath's name mentioned about 5 times in the time it took to get from behind the goals to the gate yesterday , The supporters have clearly lost whatever confidence they had left in Ross and DJ and unless they put together a miracle run in the qualifiers you would have to say their time is up .
Congratulations to Fermanagh , fully deserved their win yesterday . Hope they can go on and win Ulster now .
I was a bit surprised at the poor fitness of the Down lads considering the training they did and the fact they had Paddy Tally on board.
Quote from: downredblack on May 18, 2009, 09:10:55 AM
FFS Leo will you give over about John Boyle ? are you waiting for someone to say you were right about him all along ? If only our problems began and ended with one player .
I'll agree that the farce of naming Mickey Mouse teams is a complete waste of time and energy and the inclusion or not of Benny and Dan Gordan would be the only interest to opposing teams , managers or supporters when reading Down team selections . Name the team on a Thursday after training like everyone else and leave it at that , POR was crucified by everyone for not having a plan B , but here we are 3 yrs on and we are still lumping it in on top of Benny . We all know how special he is as a player for Down but when he is clearly not fit or on other days when he is being well marked the management have to be able to say right this isn't working .
I think I heard Pete McGrath's name mentioned about 5 times in the time it took to get from behind the goals to the gate yesterday , The supporters have clearly lost whatever confidence they had left in Ross and DJ and unless they put together a miracle run in the qualifiers you would have to say their time is up .
Congratulations to Fermanagh , fully deserved their win yesterday . Hope they can go on and win Ulster now .
Have to agree with most of what you say (including rebulke to myself) but my main point at this stage is that Ross & DJ should not be given the option of taking the team to the qualifiers. We have learned all we need to know about this management and nothing is served by keeping them in place, quite the opposite. Having admired both as great players it is not easy to state this opinion but as the saying goes "facts is facts".
It is not a question of Pete or POR returning at this stage, it is a matter of damage limitation between now and the start of the next season. Ross & DJ have NOTHING to contribute to that process.
Seriously disappointed with the game lads. First off this ridiculing by some of individual players is highly uncalled for. Confidence is low enough I'm sure at the minute and I know many read this forum, so ridiculing them on here is uncalled for. They are being selected to play for Down, they aren't running up to the management + saying please pick me. If selected to play they then have to implement the managers team strategy and do what is asked of them. The team selection yesterday was wrong, and I'd imagine many of the players knew this themselves. So many playing out of position without any league game experience was a major risk. So many risks shouldn't be taken when it comes to the 1st round of the Championship because unless all the players have complete faith in themselves + the strategy you will get found out!
Unfortunately yesterday the long ball option never worked and was never changed which is ridiculous they never looked like a TEAM, whereas Fermanagh did. The buck has to stop with Ross + DJ. Seriously in 3 years we are no better than we were under Paddy O' Rourke. We all thought in Newry last June things were on the up they were going to change. Look where we are 11 months later. They've tried and failed, gave it 3 years now is the time to step aside. 1 thing that makes me angry though is the ommission of John Clarke + Michael Walsh from the panel never mind the starting 15, it's disgraceful. Confidence is going to be so low going into the qualifers, I believe a new manager ( Pete McGrath temporarily) over the next 6 or 7 weeks would get them motivated for a qualifier run if the draw is favourable, and get them boys at least in if they'll even come back at this stage. Thanks to Ross + DJfor all the time and effort they have put in over the last 3 years but it's just not working. Experience is needed at this stage.
Congratulations to Fermanagh you've done it again, you have belief, workrate, good management and now a free taker (although none were overly dificult). Really hope you go on to the Ulster Final this year and give it another rattle I wish you the best of luck! As for the Down boys head's down train like hell for the next 6 or 7 weeks and try to restore a bit of pride, and hope for a favourable draw. Good Luck.
PS I'm just about dried out, those showers were brutal!!
While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.
They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.
The county board will wait and see, but only an unexpected revolt by the players would produce some form of intervention now.
However, the Autumn, with Pete McGrath ready and presumably waiting, will be a different story.
I do think Ross could have shook McGraths hand though ... game was over.
D4S, you are dead right, no need to be criticising players on here. no player goes out to have a bad game. i think that the lack of game plan and the obvious confusion in the team means that the lads are always going to find it difficult to fulfill their potential in a county shirt.
the issues raised by posters following yesterdays game are exactly the same as the issues which were raised by the likes of trevor hill and panguarban during the league i.e. lack of settled team, any type of system and the fact that they don't even look like a team that has played together before.
having travelled to roscommon, longford and enniskillen i think i have completed my penance for the year and would very much doubt that i could endure sitting through a similar performance in the qualifiers (which looks inevitable at this stage)
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 18, 2009, 11:34:57 AM
While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.
They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.
I agree Mourne Rover I don't expect them to go, was just giving my opinion on the matter. Felt seriously sorry for the lads at fulltime yesterday as I know they were probably more frustrated and disappointed than any of the few thousand fans who did travel. Aidan Carrs frustration blew over with the incident with McGrath. Have to say I disagree with Ross saying he made a meal of it, he got straight back up, if someone shoves you from behind when you're not expecting it you will probably go down. However I thought the red was harsh!
Firstly I'm not from Down but my other half is. I've seen this team quite a number of times over the last five years and yesterday was a shambolic performance in championship football. No one Down player could walk off that field with his head held high and said he had given everything on the field. I think people totally misjudged how good Fermanagh are. Not the greatest of footballers but they have a very good team who are playing to their collective strengths. Their manager must be one of the best considering his playing pool. On paper Down are a superior team but paper counts for nothing.
Secondly what the hell was the team selection about, guys out of position, others wearing wrong jerseys etc etc , you could see that the players were very unsure of their positions throughout the game. It's impossible to win games with only 30-40% possession. Lond ball into a big full forward line is all well and good if the ball going in is of quality and if you have the Gooch!
Anyway let the players back to their clubs for the next few weeks, and play a few rounds of the club championship to get their appetite back. Last chance saloon for the management - the team yesterday was tactically confused and playing with no confidence. Thats the managemnets fault.
Very very dissappointing yesterday, yet again the same mistakes that have been occuring year after year now.
The obvious problem with this Down team is a pure lack of brains, they have loads of Ability - some quality accurate forwards, any number of strong midfielders and it appears now a decent looking defence.
The defence or lack of it has been murdered in the press for years now and to an extent rightly so. But looking back on last year against Armagh and Wexford and again yesterday it was our forwards particularly around the 40 that let us down. Down appeared to have nobody yesterday capable of picking a pass inside to Benny and McComiskey. The amount of ball given away in the Fermanagh half was unforgivable and as a consequence Fermanagh were able to mount attack after attack which was more obvious in the last quarter when they won the game.
Its simple if Down had Rodgers, Walsh and Doyle or even Clarke in the half forward line - players with composure and brains, Down would have won. But these lads were'nt available for selection yesterday and those who played instead just are not good enough. Whetheror not this is the managers fault will become irrelevant after the next defeat. (Unless maybe its an A/I final).
Here is my take on the team:
McVeigh: Nothing to do
Howard: Tight and Solid as usual
Turley: Despite giving away a couple of frees (out of 57) A good presence at f/b and his man only really had an influence on the game through his free taking.
Rafferty: Tight and solid as usual
Duffin: Not a bad debut for a youngster, looks rugged and uncompromising and kept his opponent close.
Rooney: This ones a bit of a puzzle, started off at CHB then midfield, and appeared in a wing half forward position a couple of times in the 2nd half. Clearly a decent player but whats his best position? Would prefer Murphy at half back.
Garvey: Like Duffin he is what we have been crying out for - a real defender. Did nothing special on the ball but never gave his man much room to make an impact.
Big Dan : Not at his best but still influnential in patches, probably shaded his battle with Murphy but it was probably the other Fermanagh midfielder that stole the show with his 3 pts from play.
Kearney: Did'nt offer much yesterday, one of those who seems to be lost out there at times
Murtagh: A great scoring f/f at club level with undoubted talent but was also lost out there. Can't fault his workrate and won some breaking ball, but gave the ball away too many times and ran into cul de sacs as always.
Carr: Sending off really summed up his day, one of the guys I thought capable of feeding our inside forwards with decent ball just did't turn up. Usually a consistant performer.
Hughes: The jury's still out on this one, his workrate was impressive and at times tortured the Fermanagh defence. But equally at times lost possession and ran into no mans land. Danny is as good as there is when driving down the wings, but when he's not doing that he's making frustrating mistakes.
McComiskey: Felt sorry for im - Starved of quality ball, will no doubt have bigger days ahead of him
Fitzpatrick: Good first half however had his work cut out trying to pick the nothing balls out of the sky in the 2nd half .
Benny: Should'nt have been near the place - clearly injured I just hope no futher damage has been done. Scored a wonder point.
Good luck to Fermangh, I hope they can go to an Ulster final however they will get it tight against some of the more composed and efficient teams.
You could see after 20 mins of the game that Fermanagh were going to win - they were playing like a team, Down weren't.
I'm on the wrong side of 40 now and i think this is the worst Down team i've ever seen, certainly since the first Down sides i saw in the late 70s.
Quote from: Armamike on May 18, 2009, 01:23:25 PM
You could see after 20 mins of the game that Fermanagh were going to win - they were playing like a team, Down weren't.
I'm on the wrong side of 40 now and i think this is the worst Down team i've ever seen, certainly since the first Down sides i saw in the late 70s.
Your probably right, defeats this year to Limerick, Cavan, Tipp and now Fermanagh would confirm this and throw in the defeat to Cross in a friendly. I know friendlies don't count for shit and Cross are a decent side, but they are a club side - a f**king club side!
I'm usually positive and try to refrain from critcising the players and management, but I like many attended all the above games (apart from Limerick) and kept telling myself it'll be all right we'll do the business in the summer as I have done for years now. But somethings drastically wrong, good underage teams, talented players but a senior side that looks lost, players that can't make the right decisions, no confidence, no ideas, no mangement, no gameplan, no settled or consistant player selection. Its all a bit chaotic to say the least.
Any way in the true tradition of the species that is the Down fan, if we have Ambrose,McKernan, Benny and Doyle back and fit for the qualifiers then we have a great chance of a decent run! Come Down get your bets on 66/1 for Sam - bet of the century!
Quote from: Fermanaghandsam on May 18, 2009, 12:05:21 AM
Breen 7.5: Done well, but in 2nd halfs some kick outs were poor
Some of the ones I saw (in between naps) from the hand in the 2nd half were excellent.
Found his man in plenty of space, which I suppose more reflects on the Down marking.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 17, 2009, 11:15:15 PM
I suspect most of those criticising Turley were watching on tv rather than attending the game. Watching from the stand you could see that he brought a physical presence to our defence which had been missing in the league, was solid under high balls and showed a fair amount of pace. Carson scored a single point from play against him, and got a couple of generous frees as well, but our problems today were much further out the field.
Well put. The ball he slapped from the man as soon as he got and busted to get to the break keep it in and pass it off was exactly what Down need in a defender. Nothing Fancy. Big Brute. Win the ball. Straight to half back. No questions asked.
I agree very much that
-New Managers in place before the next game, even if temporary.
-Walsh Clarke and Cole more involved, the latter 2 starting.
Aidan Carr Corner forward. I'm sure John Clarke was bemused.
Quote from: down6061689194 on May 18, 2009, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 17, 2009, 11:15:15 PM
I suspect most of those criticising Turley were watching on tv rather than attending the game. Watching from the stand you could see that he brought a physical presence to our defence which had been missing in the league, was solid under high balls and showed a fair amount of pace. Carson scored a single point from play against him, and got a couple of generous frees as well, but our problems today were much further out the field.
Well put. The ball he slapped from the man as soon as he got and busted to get to the break keep it in and pass it off was exactly what Down need in a defender. Nothing Fancy. Big Brute. Win the ball. Straight to half back. No questions asked.
I agree very much that
-New Managers in place before the next game, even if temporary.
-Walsh Clarke and Cole more involved, the latter 2 starting.
Aidan Carr Corner forward. I'm sure John Clarke was bemused.
here here, very much have to agree with this post, especially in relation to turley, it was clear to see from being at the game that he came out well for the ball and gave his man little room to play. On several occassions he dispossesd carson and the number 13 when they had got the ball first. And didnt i tell u that aidan carr would be 'roaming'!!!
Quote from: D4S on May 18, 2009, 11:59:51 AM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 18, 2009, 11:34:57 AM
While strange things sometimes happen with county managers, it is highly unlikely that Ross and DJ are going to walk at this stage. They will know, if they are honest with themselves, that they were part of the problem yesterday, and their pride alone will push them to at least some form of recovery in the qualifiers.
They will probably reckon that, with Dan, Benny and Ambrose regaining match fitness, a favourable draw will still present an opportunity. However, realistically, Sunday's display was so bad that only the remote prospect of a run to the quarter finals would keep them in charge next year.
I agree Mourne Rover I don't expect them to go, was just giving my opinion on the matter. Felt seriously sorry for the lads at fulltime yesterday as I know they were probably more frustrated and disappointed than any of the few thousand fans who did travel. Aidan Carrs frustration blew over with the incident with McGrath. Have to say I disagree with Ross saying he made a meal of it, he got straight back up, if someone shoves you from behind when you're not expecting it you will probably go down. However I thought the red was harsh!
I disagree. He was expecting it and threw himself up a bit before going down. Never a red card in a million years. I think Bannon thought the namby pamby rules were actually brought in at Congress.
All told a bit of a disaster for Down. Were in the box seat but Fermanagh's greater experience was the deciding factor. To lose 5-0 in the final minutes tells a tale.
Congratulations to Fermanagh. Yesterday proved again they are a tight unit , have a shrewd manager and some VG players. Let's remember Derry ( who were NFL champions) and Monaghan ( who have their best crop of players for 30 years) also fell victim to them last year and( as everyone has said) if they had Carson for the frees, they would have beaten Armagh to lift Ulster.
So , keep your nerves lads. The management and players will feel shite today.They know they let themselves and us down. There are clear areas for improvement but they are an honest group of men and I stand behind them.John Clarke may have added something but not sure if Mickey Walsh would have - our greatest loss is Liam Doyle .We got out of division 3 and can only improve with better opposition- if the qualifiers give us the enjoyment of Tullamore and Portlaoise , bring it on.Remember, you can't beat the AI champions every year.
Delighted to get the win yesterday, kind of forgot how it feels to win and that probably applies to the players too.
O'Rourke did superbly again, he has the players so committed to the system and they stuck to their guns relentlessly and Down eventually crumbled. Thought Ciaran McElroy was immense and Blobby was very encouraging up front. None of the frees were from great distance but he won a few of them himself. We don't need a Bryan Sheehan, just someone to knock over the simple ones on a consistent basis, and hopefully we have that. Quite confident Daryl Keenan will do similar if the frees fall on the other side next time.
Really happy to see James Sherry stand up and be counted, he's flattered to deceive too often. He has more natural ability than McGrath even and just needs to believe it and show more desire and agression. Hit a few great scores. Tommy is as godd a half-back as there is in Ulster right now. Frog did well too, showed real strength when it was needed, as did Lyons who carried the ball superbly out of defence. Hugh Brady also stuck to his plan and threw everything he could at stopping the deliveries to Coulter.
To win that without Owens, Womble (Murphy) and Clucker is a great result and hopefully we can really build on it now. Thought the sending off was harsh and very disappointed to hear Carr refused to shake hands with Marty McGrath afterwards. Disgusted even.
Certainly not a good day for the Down management and you'd have to wonder what went on the past month within the panel.
Anyone could tell you what way Fermanagh would play but they lacked any ideas at all. In saying that after the eighth long ball pumped in you'd have to ask questions of the players sending it in. No composure whatsoever which probably stems from the real lack of a gameplan. Anyway onwards and upwards hopefully.
Was a bit disappointed that I walked past 3 or 4 Down people on the way out of the ground who were balimng the referee for the defeat. Anyway, my ratings:
Harry - 6.5 - Little to do from open play. One good catch under pressure. Kick outs were won by Gordon in the first half. Directing the kick outs away from Gordon/Marty in the second half took Gordon out of the game completely and drove Fermanagh to victory
Bogie - 6.5 - started poorly giving McComiskey space. Got tighter as the game went on. Had a chance of a point but was afraid to shoot. Will probably keep his spot and do a man marking job on Seanie Johnston or Ger Pierson
Lyons - 8 - showed great leadership at the back. Gave Fitzpatrick very little and dealt admirably under the stream of high balls fired in. Has helped to make the loss of Barry Owens less of an issue - which is no mean feat. Also showed some strong forward runs
Hughie - 7 - I was worried about him before the match but his lack of pace wasn't a problem given he picked up Coulter for much of the match. Part of a fine full back line performance and didn't resort to his normal fouling. Malachy's biggest head ache is picking two corner backs from Goan/Bogue/Brady/Sherry and potentially Owens/Lyons later in the Summer
Clucker - 5 - Danny Hughes gave him a tough enough time in the first half. Caught out for not tracking back one time Didn't look match sharp and not sure WHB is his right position. Taken off for Sherry at half time with Hamstring injury
Frog - 7 - A decent game. Started on Coulter and could be faulted for not tracking his man for one of Coulter's scores. Improved in the second half when Fermanagh were on top and his strength on the ball was useful. Would still have concerns about his distribution sometimes
Tommy - 8 - Fine score at the start to get things going and settle Fermanagh. Always available and looking for the ball. Strong goign forward. At one point in the first half I was thinking to myself "if only we had 10 Tommy McElroy's" - you could play him anywhere
Marty - 7 - Was overshadowed in the first half by Gordon who won some clean catches - although McGrath did break some ball in the first half and Fermanagh were predominantly first to the breaks. Improved in the second half as he had little one on one catching contests with Gordon and was stronger than Gordon from open play. Got a score and probably could have had another. Decent performance
Sherry - 7 - Very strong start to the first half kicking two fine scores and winning some ball in midfield. Was less prominent in the second half but broke some good ball and generally had a decent game. As per Lyons/Owens his performance meant no one was saying "if only we had womble"
Keano - 7.5 - One of his best games in a long time. Got through a lot of work. Always made himself available. Part of a Fermanagh HF/HB sextet that won the majority of the breaks. Down lacked "scavangers" like Keenan/Macsy/Tommy etc yesterday and that was part of the difference
Macsy - 8 - Man of the match. Played in front of the half back line for the majority of the match in the sweeper style role Mark Little played last year. Won a lot of breaks, some clean catches, scored a point and was always available. Now a certain starter on any Fermanagh line up
Boiler - 5.5 - Looked of the pace and wasn't really in the game for long periods. Was substituted and may not start the next day
Daryl - 6 - Seemed a bit like a rabbit in the headlights in the first half and was probably too keen. Settled a bit thereafter and scored a point but always seemed a little nervous. Nonetheless will probably keep his place the next day
Blobby - 8 - MOM on the TV. His scores won the day and his second half performance when he was out in front constantly and used his strength well cause Down problems. His frees were all scoreable but last eyar we would have missed them. Could be an important player this summer but i'm not sure if he will repeat that performance the next day. I haven't gave him MOM as his sceond half performance was probably 9 but his first half only 7 whereas McElroy was probably 7.5 and 8.5 -> more consistent
Wee man - 7.5 - the perfect corner forward and a good foil for Carson. Won his fair share of the ball played in to him. Didn't score but this didn't reflect his workrate and threat. Had a pretty good contest with the Down corner back
Quote from: Caid on May 18, 2009, 09:18:31 PM
Was a bit disappointed that I walked past 3 or 4 Down people on the way out of the ground who were balimng the referee for the defeat. Anyway, my ratings:
Can I hazard a guess and say they were 20-23, fairly intoxicated and probabaly spent half the match also ridiculing our own players in Down?? Can't blame referee for the defeat, the bettre team won on the day, with the better managerial setup + gameplan. Good luck to you in Ulster!
I've just seen the highlights again on TG4 and even now I'm surprised at how far out some of Fermanagh's scores were in the first half. It just shows you what a bit of confidence and self belief can do. I was so glad to see so many players have a go and shoot. So what if they put it wide. I'd rather see them doing that than getting caught in possession. The players that really impressed me yesterday were Tommy McElroy and James Sherry. Tommy ran all day. His work rate is immense and he really leads by example. James Sherry at last has shown everyone how good a player he really is. He has had good games before so the challenge for him now is to back it up with a good performance against Cavan. Blobby was excellent in the second half as he grew in confidence when he started to slot over the frees. Although he did well, I hope we don't start bombing high balls into the sqaure the next day. Cavan will be ready for this so we'll have to ensure we vary our method of attack.
Ciaran McElroy was superb sweeping up around midfield and half back. He always looks composed on the ball and he really gives it away.
It's amazing how one victory can lift spirits. It's great to have a buzz back in the county. I was speaking to friends today who are arranging flights home from England for the Cavan game.
On the injury front hopefully Clucker's injury isn't too bad and maybe Barry Owens can play some part in the next game. Shane Goan will also come back into contention for the corner back position if he regains full fitness.
The boys showed yesterday that with work hard and team unity we're a match for most counties. Roll on the 6 June. I'm already looking forward to it.
i think the whole disaster of lumping hail marys on top of benny and fitzpatrick all day can also be attributed to poor decision making by the players individually. this has been the worn out, easily read tactic for the last number of years and standing behind the fermanagh goal in the second half yesterday it was clear that it was all the players were looking to do. whilst the management deserve criticism for a lack of Plan B, the current ploy seems to have been engraved on the players' mindsets.
a fresh approach is required, and while i would have reservations about selecting a manager from outside the county it could only be an improvement from ross and dj.
leo is 100% correct on john boyle, though its not boyles fault he is there
Quote from: FermPundit on May 18, 2009, 09:26:29 PM
I was speaking to friends today who are arranging flights home from England for the Cavan game.
Flights booked there. I've now spent around £150 following Fermanagh in this year's championship already :o But sure I suppose it's still cheaper than a weekend in London!
Quote from: Caid on May 18, 2009, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: FermPundit on May 18, 2009, 09:26:29 PM
I was speaking to friends today who are arranging flights home from England for the Cavan game.
Flights booked there. I've now spent around £150 following Fermanagh in this year's championship already :o But sure I suppose it's still cheaper than a weekend in London!
Caid, you can't put a price on county loyalty!
Quote from: FermPundit on May 18, 2009, 10:43:01 PM
Caid, you can't put a price on county loyalty!
About £40 for Down this year.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on May 18, 2009, 09:40:11 PM
i think the whole disaster of lumping hail marys on top of benny and fitzpatrick all day can also be attributed to poor decision making by the players individually. this has been the worn out, easily read tactic for the last number of years and standing behind the fermanagh goal in the second half yesterday it was clear that it was all the players were looking to do. whilst the management deserve criticism for a lack of Plan B, the current ploy seems to have been engraved on the players' mindsets.
a fresh approach is required, and while i would have reservations about selecting a manager from outside the county it could only be an improvement from ross and dj.
leo is 100% correct on john boyle, though its not boyles fault he is there
Dodgy while I apprecite the support on some of my observations, I cannot agree with the outside manager buisness. We need the beat odf the Down heart back at the heart of football in Down. This is about us ........
As if things weren't bad enough for Down, Ross Carr has come out and accused Marty McGrath of diving to get Aidan sent off!
Marty was pushed in the back or neck, and did not see it coming. He got straight back to his feet and made no fuss at all. I think Ross is letting himself down here. Marty is a player who I hold in the highest respect, he is hardworking and honest in the Francie mould.
Also, Marty once got hit on the back of the head by a digger and he recovered ok, so Aidan Carr is the least of his worries.
Fermanagh were well organized and disciplined and down were their usual rabble selves. actually, down were probably less organized than previous seasons. It's amazing that they had not planned for nor weren't able to deal with a sweeper.
Ross and dj will be gone after the qualifiers. i can't see down people settling for this. from the outside it looks like wee james might be the obvious next step?
I've always been surprised by the lack of muscle and power development of some of the Fermanagh forwards. I'm not a big fan of spending too much time in the gym over skill development as I've posed to that effect but some of the Fermanagh forwards have the same physique they had 5 years ago. Definitely a case where a few added kilos wouldn't do them any harm.
I though their forward play was very poor at the weekend bar Carson- couldn't physically impose themselves at all. 13 looked good as well- but they never gave him the ball. Thought Keenan was quiet by his standards. They should try and get Bradley back as well.
How Tommy Mc Elroy didn't get man of the match is beyond me. He's in the top 5 wing backs in the country for me. Their backs and midfield were first class for me.
Quote from: INDIANA on May 19, 2009, 12:39:12 PM
I've always been surprised by the lack of muscle and power development of some of the Fermanagh forwards. I'm not a big fan of spending too much time in the gym over skill development as I've posed to that effect but some of the Fermanagh forwards have the same physique they had 5 years ago. Definitely a case where a few added kilos wouldn't do them any harm.
I though their forward play was very poor at the weekend bar Carson- couldn't physically impose themselves at all. 13 looked good as well- but they never gave him the ball. Thought Keenan was quiet by his standards. They should try and get Bradley back as well.
How Tommy Mc Elroy didn't get man of the match is beyond me. He's in the top 5 wing backs in the country for me. Their backs and midfield were first class for me.
Would completely disagree with what you said there Indiana.
Fermanagh had Mike McGurn(last years Ireland Rugby fitness coach) devise them a weights programme last year. As far as i can remember they had 2 sessions every week.
They are a strong bunch of lads and it you watch some of our games over the last year or two, you will see the amount of big hits we put in.
I agree FermGael. I know for a fact they were on a pretty brutal weights programme twice a week.
I didn't see too many times on sunday where a Fermanagh forward was muscled off the ball.
Quote from: FermGael on May 19, 2009, 02:07:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on May 19, 2009, 12:39:12 PM
I've always been surprised by the lack of muscle and power development of some of the Fermanagh forwards. I'm not a big fan of spending too much time in the gym over skill development as I've posed to that effect but some of the Fermanagh forwards have the same physique they had 5 years ago. Definitely a case where a few added kilos wouldn't do them any harm.
I though their forward play was very poor at the weekend bar Carson- couldn't physically impose themselves at all. 13 looked good as well- but they never gave him the ball. Thought Keenan was quiet by his standards. They should try and get Bradley back as well.
How Tommy Mc Elroy didn't get man of the match is beyond me. He's in the top 5 wing backs in the country for me. Their backs and midfield were first class for me.
Would completely disagree with what you said there Indiana.
Fermanagh had Mike McGurn(last years Ireland Rugby fitness coach) devise them a weights programme last year. As far as i can remember they had 2 sessions every week.
They are a strong bunch of lads and it you watch some of our games over the last year or two, you will see the amount of big hits we put in.
I have watched them and I've yet to see some of your forwards break a tackle yet. And i emphasiase the term some ie not all. ;D.They look exactly the same size to me as they did 5 years ago with little if any improvement in power. Ryan Keenan looks to me to the only one who is noticeably bigger- where as the likes of Tommy Mc Elroy are unquestionably more powerful then they were. Just an observation not a criticism as its a happy balance between the two just that I think you'll really struggle against the likes of the Tyrone defence up front in terms of ball winning.
Quote from: Feckitt on May 19, 2009, 11:37:53 AM
As if things weren't bad enough for Down, Ross Carr has come out and accused Marty McGrath of diving to get Aidan sent off!
Marty was pushed in the back or neck, and did not see it coming. He got straight back to his feet and made no fuss at all. I think Ross is letting himself down here. Marty is a player who I hold in the highest respect, he is hardworking and honest in the Francie mould.
Also, Marty once got hit on the back of the head by a digger and he recovered ok, so Aidan Carr is the least of his worries.
Don't know if this is true or what but one thing is sure - Marty didn't cover himself in glory in this case. None of us want diving and play acting and he definitely embellished a harmless enough push. I have a lot of respect for McGrath but can we accept this kind of carry on? He didn't need to go to ground or maybe Aidan Carr is a lot stronger than he looks.
He was caught by surprise and he fell over. It was a stupid petulant act by Carr and he deserves exactly what he got. Typifies the complete lack of discipline in the Down team. How anyone can blame Mc Grath is beyond me.
Watched sundays game again there on Setanta. That was absolutly shocking. No game plan watsoever only hoof high aimless balls into Benny and Pete against 4 defenders. How Aidan Carr was not subtituted i will never know. I said before he gets preference on this team, but on Sunday he should have been taken off. In his defence it was unfair to play him half back in the league then change him to the forward line for championship. Peter Turley had some good moments but if he faced a top forward he would be roasted. Danny Hughes deserves special mention for giving his all and being our best player by some distance. I just cant understand why Sexton, Murphy and Cole where not used. Ross and DJ have had 3 years and as soon as we are put out they should do the honourable thing and resign. Under ORourke Down where enjoyable to watch, under this management its very difficult apart from Tyrone tie last year. Michael Walsh proved yet again last night he is the top number 11 in Down scoring 0-5 against Castlewellan for the Bridge. This man along with John Clarke and James Colgan are in our top 15 players and should be drafted in for qualifiers to give us some hope. I would like to see the following team for the first round in 7 weeks. 1. B McVeigh 2. L Howard 3. C Garvey 4. D Rafferty 5 P Murphy 6 J Colgan 7 K McKernan 8 D Gordon 9 P Fitzpatrick 10. A Rogers 11. M Walsh 12. D Hughes 13. J Clarke 14 B Coulter 15 P McComiskey. The chances of this happening are nil I know but i think it would be much more effective from anything we have seen in Division 3 this year and in sundays dabacle.
Very pleased after the game on Sunday. Would disagree on some points posted about the match, but am going to try to stick to the positives.
First off, was delighted with the showing from a team missing Gallagher, Goan, Owens, Kelly, Murphy and only getting a half each from P.Sherry and McCluskey. It would not be hard to argue that 4 or 5 of those players were among the most important to the cause last year. The lads who came in acquitted themselves well and people like McElroy (x2) and J.Sherry stepped up to the plate for leadership (even if its only one game so far, it is definite cause for optimism).
Was glad to see the first 2 points being hit from distance, as there are plenty of fellas capable of it. Last year it was repeated that often, it got accepted that Fermangh couldn't shoot from distance, and the longer it went on the more you could see the players starting to believe it. Although was slightly surprised that Little hit the 45 in the first half.
I've seen Little knock them over at club level but he's not a natural at striking the ball. Blobby could be given that responsibility but I suppose we don't want to overburden him. A few stray 50s and the confidence could plummit.
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 19, 2009, 10:08:09 PM
I've seen Little knock them over at club level but he's not a natural at striking the ball. Blobby could be given that responsibility but I suppose we don't want to overburden him. A few stray 50s and the confidence could plummit.
Daryl Keenan is a very decent free taker as well. Blobby won't have the sole responsibility of taking all frees, just the ones that suit a left footed player.
Any fool could see Benny wasnt fit to play, bad bad desicion to play him.
A few different people have said to me that Ross and Co got serious abuse from some Down "supporters" after the game on Sunday. I was right behind the dugout where they were and never heard a word.....anyone else?
Ross and to a lesser extent DJ have taken a bit of stick during the league, though I didn`t hear anyone shouting abuse on Sunday. Are they not abusing us by sending out ill prepared teams week in week out?
I know a lot has been said about the quality of players available to Down, that is fine if the players arent there but that Down team on Sunday were not physically conditioned to last 70 mins of championship football. Why are they not fit at the end of May, what have they been doing since Christmas? Question posed by MINDER
Sorry lads just wanted to put this post on this thread too, to see what discussion we might get. My response to the question in bold is below.
Maybe the boys are tired/demotivated because they didn't get a break like other counties, as Ross + DJ called training a week after last years all-ireland final and they trained through november + december ! Not that this is an excuse for the display on Sunday but all small things can build up an lead to an unmotivated panel of players?! How the hell are they supposed to peak in the summer? We are not as good as but why can't we learn from the likes of Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin. I'd be fairly sure none of these counties were training collectively in October, November, December! County training takes up so much time these days, rush home from work + out the door, or rush straight to training from work. Then after the training there's maybe a meal or a meeting. Fellas need a bit of down time too with friends + family? I'm sure some hated going out training in November + December, but did it because they knew if they didn't they wouldn't be playing championship football for Down this summer! Not the only or even the main reason for Sunday's defeat but as I said before small things can build up and make a panel of players unmotivated + resentful!
One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet, I was behind the goals on Sunday and before throw in, the Down players spent 10 minutes shooting practice, kicking the ball into the goals. We did this at underage level, I didnt notice the players at all trying to gee each other up, doing intense drills or looking like they were up for it. The only time in the game Down looked like playing with any urgency was in the 1st 10 minutes of the 2nd half. I believe it comes down to the management to have a team psyched up+motivated before + during the match. Why didn't these fellas play like a motivated team?
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 20, 2009, 09:08:04 AM
Any fool could see Benny wasnt fit to play, bad bad desicion to play him.
What
was really the extent of his injury?
Quote from: spiritof91and94 on May 20, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 20, 2009, 09:08:04 AM
Any fool could see Benny wasnt fit to play, bad bad desicion to play him.
What was really the extent of his injury?
He pulled his hamstring on Thursday night!!!!!
Quote from: T O Hare on May 20, 2009, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: spiritof91and94 on May 20, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: WhoAreYaWhoAreYa! on May 20, 2009, 09:08:04 AM
Any fool could see Benny wasnt fit to play, bad bad desicion to play him.
What was really the extent of his injury?
He pulled his hamstring on Thursday night!!!!!
I had heard this on Friday, but when I saw him line out Sunday I thought it must have been another story/rumour. Hope he hasn't done any further damage by playin!
From the Newry Democrat.
BENNY Coulter has admitted to the Democrat that it was a mistake to play in Sunday's Ulser Championship preliminary tie at Brewster Park.
The Down ace pulled a hamstring during Thursday's training session and, despite extreme physio treatment, the problem didn't quite clear up.
Still Benny felt he could do a job of some description.
But the injury curtailed his mobility, and against Fermanagh, he found he couldn't run or play to his potential.
Coulter also said that Sunday's defeat was one of the lowest moments he had every experienced in football.
Going into the match Mourne fans were optimistic that 2009 would be their year.
They were in the weaker half of the draw and missing giants such as Tyrone, Armagh and Derry until the Ulster final.
Now, although their dreams of a provincial triumph are shattered, there's still lots to play for.
After all when Tyrone left Pairc Esler last year with their tails between their legs, everyone wrote them off.
But an All Ireland title answered their critics.
Ross Carr and DJ Kane have six weeks to revive Mourne spirits, restore confidence and get the squad reinvigorated.
And the senior Down side can take inspiration from Mark Turley's mighty Minors who looked stunning as they knocked Fermanagh from the Ulster Championship.
Quote from: FermPundit on May 19, 2009, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: ExiledGael on May 19, 2009, 10:08:09 PM
I've seen Little knock them over at club level but he's not a natural at striking the ball. Blobby could be given that responsibility but I suppose we don't want to overburden him. A few stray 50s and the confidence could plummit.
Daryl Keenan is a very decent free taker as well. Blobby won't have the sole responsibility of taking all frees, just the ones that suit a left footed player.
Have seen Little take them plenty of times, but he never really convinces me. Keenan and Carson would both be decent at them but I can see why maybe they were kept clear of them on their debuts. If memory serves me right, is Ciaran McElroy not quite handy from 45's as well?
Quote from: D4S on May 20, 2009, 01:02:56 PM
I know a lot has been said about the quality of players available to Down, that is fine if the players arent there but that Down team on Sunday were not physically conditioned to last 70 mins of championship football. Why are they not fit at the end of May, what have they been doing since Christmas? Question posed by MINDER
Sorry lads just wanted to put this post on this thread too, to see what discussion we might get. My response to the question in bold is below.
Maybe the boys are tired/demotivated because they didn't get a break like other counties, as Ross + DJ called training a week after last years all-ireland final and they trained through november + december ! Not that this is an excuse for the display on Sunday but all small things can build up an lead to an unmotivated panel of players?! How the hell are they supposed to peak in the summer? We are not as good as but why can't we learn from the likes of Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin. I'd be fairly sure none of these counties were training collectively in October, November, December! County training takes up so much time these days, rush home from work + out the door, or rush straight to training from work. Then after the training there's maybe a meal or a meeting. Fellas need a bit of down time too with friends + family? I'm sure some hated going out training in November + December, but did it because they knew if they didn't they wouldn't be playing championship football for Down this summer! Not the only or even the main reason for Sunday's defeat but as I said before small things can build up and make a panel of players unmotivated + resentful!
One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet, I was behind the goals on Sunday and before throw in, the Down players spent 10 minutes shooting practice, kicking the ball into the goals. We did this at underage level, I didnt notice the players at all trying to gee each other up, doing intense drills or looking like they were up for it. The only time in the game Down looked like playing with any urgency was in the 1st 10 minutes of the 2nd half. I believe it comes down to the management to have a team psyched up+motivated before + during the match. Why didn't these fellas play like a motivated team?
i must have been pretty close to you as i was in the same position myself and was a little unnerved by the very casual attitude taken by the players prior to throw in. all well and good being relaxed and settling in hours before the match but the lack of focus/intensity 10 mins prior to throw in was a little odd.
in reference to the question: these are amateur players, training all year round is unnecessary, especially when you consider the other commitments of the u21s etc ( mc comiskey while showing glimpses of his full ability seemed done)
As a Down fan that was at the match I was surprised by Ross's reaction to his son getting sent off. Any other manager would have taken him off sooner but as he is the manager's son he will never be taken off no matter how bad he plays. Also Down were lucky not to have had a few more sent off namely Paul Mc Comiskey for the boot challenge which earned him a yellow card but as it was the 1st minute that probably saved him and secondly Stephen Kearney for the head high tackle which again earned him a yellow card.
McComiskey was deservedly booked for a high tackle, which was a typical forward's challenge and had nothing to do with a boot. There were plenty of other similar tackles from both sides, and the Fermanagh corner back had Benny's jersey almost hauled off his back throughout, but the only red card offence on display was unfortunately but definitely from Aidan Carr.
There was a moment in the 1st half summed it up for me - fermanagh had the ball around the midfield, and our two corner backs were on each other's men, both well out on the wings.
No problem as the two men were marked, irrespective of who was marking them...
But no, our lads decide to cross over the entire width of the field to get onto their own men... leaving the two Fermanagh fellas completely free with the ball (in Fermanagh's possession) not 30 yards away!
I'm sure the Fermanagh players couldn't believe it!
A f**king under-12 wouldn't have made such an inept decision! Not 1, but 2 of our county seniors do!
I don't know what is being told to the players - but by jesus it isn't working!
New management for the qualifiers please - and failing that definitely for next year.