The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Is your wan Jones not an OWC fan?
surely then she depicts the episode from the home sides point of view.
Yes indeed, shocking as the dramatisation of the events from that November night were in the much acclaimed one-man play, surely it does bear some consideration that she actually painted the NI supporters in a more gentle colour.
The boul Tony F was a lot to say on this issue and was recommending the show to all....
Quote from: Main Street on September 27, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Its laughable how much hatred there was there.......some one said in a thread about how far NI supporters have come...........doesnt really take a lot compared to that.......not taking a pop here but that was terrible!!
My sisters B/f is a big NI fan and tells me its getting better now but just not for me!!
Were planning to take him to Croke for the Cyprus match......I've told him theres more people in the toilet there than there is in WP....LOL
Quote from: Main Street on September 28, 2008, 02:11:43 AM
Yes indeed, shocking as the dramatisation of the events from that November night were in the much acclaimed one-man play, surely it does bear some consideration that she actually painted the NI supporters in a more gentle colour.
As far as I know, she is only a recent recruit of the GAWA so when the play was written she wouldn't have been worrying about how much shite she put in it.
Her one-man play has been acclaimed by critics from Belfast to Bombay.
Marie Jones has been attending WP games for a few years now and appears not to be afflicted with bigotry denial.
Belfast Telegraph
"The play is loosely based on real-life events which took place in November 1993 when a World Cup qualifying match between Northern Ireland and the Republic was dogged by racism and sectarianism".
It will be interesting to see this documentary on Kielty and how he came to terms with his first big theatrical role and a one-man role at that.
Quote from: Main Street on September 27, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Though the RoI's
team's choice of, ahem, musical entertainment does spring to mind...
See, two can stir that pot of yours if you want to :P
Quote from: MW on September 28, 2008, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 27, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Though the RoI's team's choice of, ahem, musical entertainment does spring to mind...
See, two can stir that pot of yours if you want to :P
Seriously MW is that the best you can come back with.
Admit the obvious you have a bigotted support (and this shite about it being a small section is bollocks, I´ve been around the University area pre-match and it at isn´t nice!),.
Yes you are trying to change, but it´s a slow process and youse have a hell of a lot of loyalist hangers on baggage.
QuoteAdmit the obvious you have a bigotted support
How much of it is bigoted?
Im often round the uni area pre game and its usually dead on, bar the occasional locked arsehole- what bit do you have trouble with? There have been incidents (not all ni fans - a few incidents involving a well known antrim gaa player/egomaniac spring to mind!) but in recent times it hasnt seemed like much trouble.
Reference .. was there not a thread on this last year some time? BasicallY it went through the following ... The Queen, No Surrender during the Queen, Union Flag, 'Ulster Flag', Windsor Cold House, More Linfield scarfs than NI scarfs, loads of clean-faced Christians attending games, Ulstermen, Keith Gillespie is a nasty bit of work etc.... Paddy Kielty's career is on the ropes if he has to dig this dated play up........ Marie Jones wee lad is in the GAWA and brought his Ma along..... she thought it was gr8 .. Might I make an observation here .. there is no doubt that things have changed at WP.... but the fact is that times have changed .. that game in 93 was played less than a month after the Shankill bomb and Greysteel .... today there is none of that shite to tarnish things... However, the day that I travel to an away game and feel confident that someone will not take offence as my name is not Norman, Billy or Sammy, well then times will have changed...
If you don't support NI football team, why bother going to WP.
If you go as a curious neutral, you will live to tell the tale without having to go through a physical or a damaging emotional assault.
If you go as a NI fan, you'll suffer the football but enjoy the atmosphere.
This is just simply a thread announcing that the BBC are screening this documentary about the scenes behind the staging of the November Night in the Cauldron of Bigotry on prime time. This story just will not go away.
Should be interesting.
The play is based on events.
Belfast people are portrayed stereotypically, give or take a few irrelevant technical arguments over what was or what was not chanted.
Republic fans are portrayed as a bunch of stereotypical football drunks on a constant bender.
But I don't hear Republic fans whining like a bunch of sissies about the play.
I thought it was only people like the Reverend Glass got all hysterical with protesting about the medium of theatre.
Quote from: Main Street on September 28, 2008, 11:13:01 PM
If you don't support NI football team, why bother going to WP.
If you go as a curious neutral, you will live to tell the tale without having to go through a physical or a damaging emotional assault.
If you go as a NI fan, you'll suffer the football but enjoy the atmosphere.
This is just simply a thread announcing that the BBC are screening this documentary about the scenes behind the staging of the November Night in the Cauldron of Bigotry on prime time. This story just will not go away.
Should be interesting.
The play is based on events.
Belfast people are portrayed stereotypically, give or take a few irrelevant technical arguments over what was or what was not chanted.
Republic fans are portrayed as a bunch of stereotypical football drunks on a constant bender.
But I don't hear Republic fans whining like a bunch of sissies about the play.
I thought it was only people like the Reverend Glass got all hysterical with protesting about the medium of theatre.
wtf? ...
We cant read minds here,
is there anything in there worth reading about?
its a shit play.Badly written ill conceived and basically dishonest as this crime against theatre was committed by a staunchly nationalistic crew masquerading as unionists and it sole attraction is playing to the prejudices of even the most mildly nationalist audience members.eg. the only way for a prod to become a decent man was to abandon his people and take up with the morons that populated Jack charltons band of plastic paddies .
Avoid at all costs
Stones in their Pockets is little better
I must say, the OWC and Unionist arguments have probably done more for this play, sales wise, than any advertising.
I certainly would be interested in seeing the play thats causing all the fuss to be honest.
Me too and only because of the huffing and puffing from certain quarters.
This play not only represents accurately the bigotry and sectarianism at Windsor Park but goes beneath the skin to explore the reasons for it,,ie the British Xenophobia of unionists and the superiority complex that leaves a lot of them surprised to discover that fenians do not in fact house pigs in the parlour or keep coal in their baths.
Also the contrasts in being a North of Ireland fan at a game (grim faced, wear your political allegiance on your sleeve, in contrast with the craic as a real Ireland fan, where you leave your political allegiances outside the gate) are also dramatically and accurately portrayed.
Saw it in Dublin, in the Tivoli, about ten years ago and I would thoroughly recommend it to anyone.
Quotebeing a North of Ireland fan at a game (grim faced, wear your political allegiance on your sleeve
:D
The more things changes, the more they stay the same.
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=2553.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=2553.0)
Surely you can recognise that Tony, a hardy veteran from the Republic's soccer path of bigotry redemption, has evolved into a better rounded man just like we have to assume Kenneth did when he came home after his USA trip.
if you want to test the non biggoted nature of the average irish soccer fan try going to the the shamrockrovers or fai team match in a linfield jersey .
Probably best to use your mobile to update this site on your progress
Jaysus the poor auld Rovers fans get an awful hard time on here ;D
I don't know rosnarun, you could nearly compete with them all, just on your own.
is there anywhere to watch this show?
is it worth catching?
A fascinating insight into how this was put together and the background of the main players. What came across was the shame of Marie Jones' (as if she was to blame for the bigots at Windsor Park just be coming from the same background) and Kielty definitly came across in a new light, an extremely talented and thoughful performer. He actually faced a dilemma performing this play (the Loughinisland massacre is referred to at the end) in Dublin on the 20th anniversary of his own father's assassination at the hands of unionist paramilitaries and spoke very well about this. I defy anyone to watch this and not see Patrick Kielty in a whole new light. He is unquestionaly a very talented and intelligent individual and from the excerpts shown he could make it easily as a serious actor.
Jones talent as a playwright also shone through. The end of the play when the character has watched Ireland beat Italy in Eamon Doran's bar in New York was drawn from her own experience (she watched the game there herself) then goes out into the streets of Manhatten full of joy with other Irish people to be told by a New York Cop about the Loughinisland massacre. As Jones said in the interview she expereinced in 5 minutes the extremes of the joy Irish people could bring and the shame and horror of what the lowest form of life can visit on this island
Also a new one on me was the chants at the 1993 game itself of Greysteel 7 Ireland 0. I had heard all about Trick or Treat but surely this 7-0 chant is the lowest form of scumbaggery one could get. >:(
much and all as i disliked the show at least when i saw dan gordon in it, i could half believe he was a unionist . but Kielty has so much public baggage it impossible to take it seriously . a play pretending to be a social commentary has a duty to b honest instead what we get a natioanalist pretendiing to be a unionist who doesn't like unionists . alarm bells should ring when you see names like robert ballagh involved. this is basicly a dishonest play about a turncoat bandwagon jumper but its greatest offence is that it is poorly written
Tony, the Greysteel chant was a new one to me also, was the background sounds for the play taken from the actual game?
Don't know. During last nights documentary they showed footage from the game and this chant was clearly audible. Marie Jones more or less said that it was this chant that motivated her to write the play
Clealry audible you say?
What tune was this Greysteel 7 Ireland 0 based upon?
Help us all out here, Mr Bigot.
I has been convinced by the OWC brigade that these chants never took place. Now I'm being told by another unreliable source that they could be heard on the footage shown last night.
Any chance this is to be repeated any time soon so I can decide for myself if I can hear them or not?
Its on the BBC i-player (I cant access it at work) and its being repeated on Thursday night on BBC2 at 9
Quote from: Square Ball on September 30, 2008, 01:56:49 PM
Its on the BBC i-player (I cant access it at work) and its being repeated on Thursday night on BBC2 at 9
Cheers Square ball.
Thought it was a really good show, and Paddy Kielty is gorgeous too. He is the future husband if Benny doesn't work out.
Was amazing the way he talked about the murder of his father that he doesn't hold a grudge.
Quote from: his holiness nb on September 30, 2008, 01:27:24 PM
I has been convinced by the OWC brigade that these chants never took place. Now I'm being told by another unreliable source that they could be heard on the footage shown last night.
Any chance this is to be repeated any time soon so I can decide for myself if I can hear them or not?
Please do watch it and listen for yourself
You'll get some idea of how people tell bare-faced lies as Fearon has.
If you can't see it on BBC2, here's a link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00dskfx/b00dsk9q
Go to 15 minutes 20 seconds.
Then, perhaps, wonder about Tony's gall.
Myself, I'm more concerned with the gall of Marie Jones.
By the way on the whole "Kenneth being so shocked at the chant he walked out" thing...
It occurred to me watching the documentary that here's an odd case of 'art' imitating life in a twisted form here.
I remember reading the fanzine 'Arconada...Armstrong' at the next NI game, and the editor (really decent guy who basically ran the fanzine as a one-man show) said that he didn't hear the chant that was alleged to have happened. He said that if he had, he liked to think that he would have left the stadium there and then.
Quotea play pretending to be a social commentary has a duty to b honest instead what we get a natioanalist pretendiing to be a unionist who doesn't like unionists
I think its called "acting". A bit like getting an Australian to play a Scottish folk hero.
Watched the show last night, meant to see the play when it was in belfast to see what the fuss was about but never got around to it. Thought Keilty came across reasonably well though I've always been a fan of his.
What is the allegation of the Greysteels chant based on? Marie Jones seemed to suggest it was reports in the Irish Sunday papers? I'd doubt if any NI fan would admit it at this stage even if they had heard it so I suppose it'll remain unproven.
would there be no copy of the game available anywhere?
surely it would be available from the bbc or rte archives?
Quote from: downgirl on September 30, 2008, 02:13:10 PM
Thought it was a really good show, and Paddy Kielty is gorgeous too. He is the future husband if Benny doesn't work out.
Was amazing the way he talked about the murder of his father that he doesn't hold a grudge.
After watching it on the i-player think Paddy is my ideal man.
Also cant believe it was on for 7weeks in the west end and i didnt have a clue bout it.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on September 28, 2008, 07:50:59 PM
Quote from: MW on September 28, 2008, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 27, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Though the RoI's team's choice of, ahem, musical entertainment does spring to mind...
See, two can stir that pot of yours if you want to :P
Seriously MW is that the best you can come back with.
Admit the obvious you have a bigoted support (and this shite about it being a small section is bollocks, I've been around the University area pre-match and it at isn't nice!),.
Yes you are trying to change, but it's a slow process and youse have a hell of a lot of loyalist hangers on baggage.
Gonna get an answer?
Will give you that things are changing at WP but youse still have problems there!
Admit that and we can start to move forward - or are you of the Limavady unionist persuasion?
Quote from: maggie on September 30, 2008, 11:55:38 PM
Quote from: downgirl on September 30, 2008, 02:13:10 PM
Thought it was a really good show, and Paddy Kielty is gorgeous too. He is the future husband if Benny doesn't work out.
Was amazing the way he talked about the murder of his father that he doesn't hold a grudge.
After watching it on the i-player think Paddy is my ideal man.
Also cant believe it was on for 7weeks in the west end and i didnt have a clue bout it.
Maggie I'd say he will take a Down girl over a Tyrone girl :P
And yea I didn't realise it had such a long run in the West End either!
Quote from: MW on September 30, 2008, 09:52:34 PM
By the way on the whole "Kenneth being so shocked at the chant he walked out" thing...
It occurred to me watching the documentary that here's an odd case of 'art' imitating life in a twisted form here.
I remember reading the fanzine 'Arconada...Armstrong' at the next NI game, and the editor (really decent guy who basically ran the fanzine as a one-man show) said that he didn't hear the chant that was alleged to have happened. He said that if he had, he liked to think that he would have left the stadium there and then.
Occurred to you or someone else on OWC?
Watched the tv programe, thought it was good. One thing that stuck out was Marie Jones telling of her son urging her to come along to see how much NI supporters had changed since she wrote the play. So she went.....to a game against cyprus. If the republic visit soon we'll really see how much change there has been.
The fact that this was 14 long years ago was also repeatedly brought up, as though nothing had happened since. Neil Lennon??!
And while I'm on a rant, Jackie Fullerton is such an apolgist for much of the bad behaviour of NI fans, that he should be banned from tv - that clip of him trying to say there were more cheers than jeers for Neil Lennon on that night was reminescent of Comical Ali claiming the allies were been held back from Baghdad, just as an American tank drove by in the background.
I have no idea as to what goes on in WP as I have very little interest in NI soccer. All I know is most of whats been said on here, and I saw some flags with Union jacks on the tv for their last game when I switched over to see the score.
Its hard to know who to believe to be honest, but a lot of bad things have happened there, thats for sure.
I agree that comparing a game against cyprus against one against the Republic is hardly a fair comparison.
We wont really know if things have changed until the Republic play a competitive game of similar importance to the last one in WP.
I'm sure Aidan McGeady cant wait. ;)
If the FAI team played at Windsor Park tonight you would see little change since 1993.
Until the IFA divorces itself from political unionism and loyalism there will be no change.
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croke Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
If the Republic was playing the North why would there be a problem?
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croke Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
They have already allowed it, all that needs to happen now is for them to arrange the match. There was no specifications when opening as to who can and cant play.
By the way, what makes you think it was so "hard to swallow" when GSTQ was played?
For many many GAA folk this wasnt a problem at all. Its is Englands national anthem after all! :o
Of course many had their issues with the England anthem that day. Watching yer man McGurk and the RTE rugby coverage before the game you would have thought that the world was about to end...but it was played and the Republic gave itself a pat on the back for respecting GSTQ.
Not sure Northern Ireland would be accepted at GAA HQ though. I think that might be a step too far, given the official support for the struggle for national liberation (or whatever the exact wording was).
I suppose you'd have to see Kielty do it in the theatre. Looking at it on the TV, I thought he overplayed Kenneth.
Listening to Marty Maguire speak Kenneth's lines, he brought a bit more wisdom to the acting of that character.
Marie Jones sounds an interesting lively person.
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 07:26:49 PM
Not sure Northern Ireland would be accepted at GAA HQ though. I think that might be a step too far, given the official support for the struggle for national liberation (or whatever the exact wording was).
Iluvni, it already has been "accepted" by the GAA.
Otherwise they would have put a stipulation that NI couldnt play there, they didnt. So as much as you would like to think them big bad republicans in the GAA wouldnt have your sort there, you are wrong.
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croaker Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
as hh already said the gaa in essence have allowed it. in all honesty i had no problem whatsoever with gstq or england playing in cp, hope they do it regularly. personally i would however have a major problem with ni playing there. i'm not going to be arsed debating the rights or wrongs of that but thats how i would feel
Big difference with GTSQ in England is that it is THE National Anthem there and everybody is content with that.
In the 6 NE Counties of Ireland 45% of the poulation have A na bFhiann for a National Anthem yet the (NE)IFA insists on using the National Anthem of the other 55% as their team's anthem.
Anyway you couldnt have the 6 Cos team in Croke Park - the size of the crowd would cause them all to die of fright. I think the RDS would do in the unlikely event of the situation arising.
Quote from: Donagh on October 01, 2008, 09:37:33 AM
Quote from: MW on September 30, 2008, 09:52:34 PM
By the way on the whole "Kenneth being so shocked at the chant he walked out" thing...
It occurred to me watching the documentary that here's an odd case of 'art' imitating life in a twisted form here.
I remember reading the fanzine 'Arconada...Armstrong' at the next NI game, and the editor (really decent guy who basically ran the fanzine as a one-man show) said that he didn't hear the chant that was alleged to have happened. He said that if he had, he liked to think that he would have left the stadium there and then.
Occurred to you or someone else on OWC?
No, to me. You've read my post on OWC then?
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on September 28, 2008, 07:50:59 PM
Quote from: MW on September 28, 2008, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on September 27, 2008, 08:32:53 PM
The torture never stops :)
BBC NI Mon 21.00 Patrick Kielty and A Night in November
Blurb:
"A behind the scenes look at the 2007 production of Marie Jones one-man play, based on events ;D surrounding the 1993 WC Qualifying match."
I'm glad to hear that they are behaving themselves these days. Fortunately throughout those bad old days (before that atmosphere was totally transformed) the good reputation of the Republic fans never suffered by (name) association. Rather, it was enhanced by comparisons.
Though the RoI's team's choice of, ahem, musical entertainment does spring to mind...
See, two can stir that pot of yours if you want to :P
Seriously MW is that the best you can come back with.
Admit the obvious you have a bigotted support (and this shite about it being a small section is bollocks, I´ve been around the University area pre-match and it at isn´t nice!),.
Yes you are trying to change, but it´s a slow process and youse have a hell of a lot of loyalist hangers on baggage.
I won't admit we "have a bigotted support". It
is a small section who are a problem, and they have been silenced at matches for the last few years - and hopefully at least some of them have actually seen the error of their ways.
Quote from: MW on October 01, 2008, 10:11:20 PM
they have been silenced at matches for the last few years
Look its easy to be silent playing the Czech republic, the only way to know if things have changed will be for the Republic to play a game of similar importance to the infamous one in WP. Only then can we actually compare.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 01, 2008, 10:40:50 PM
Quote from: MW on October 01, 2008, 10:11:20 PM
they have been silenced at matches for the last few years
Look its easy to be silent playing the Czech republic, the only way to know if things have changed will be for the Republic to play a game of similar importance to the infamous one in WP. Only then can we actually compare.
I can't conjure up hypothetical situations into reality.
I know this though - in the "normal" games back then there was sectarian singing, and there isn't now.
And even by a year later when NI played the RoI again, things were nowhere near as bad.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
Big difference with GTSQ in England is that it is THE National Anthem there and everybody is content with that.
In the 6 NE Counties of Ireland 45% of the poulation have A na bFhiann for a National Anthem yet the (NE)IFA insists on using the National Anthem of the other 55% as their team's anthem.
Anyway you couldnt have the 6 Cos team in Croke Park - the size of the crowd would cause them all to die of fright. I think the RDS would do in the unlikely event of the situation arising.
Is GSTQ England's national anthem. I was told by an English man that the proper anthem is Land of Hope and Glory. l
Quote from: reddgnhand on October 01, 2008, 11:25:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2008, 08:44:00 PM
Big difference with GTSQ in England is that it is THE National Anthem there and everybody is content with that.
In the 6 NE Counties of Ireland 45% of the poulation have A na bFhiann for a National Anthem yet the (NE)IFA insists on using the National Anthem of the other 55% as their team's anthem.
Anyway you couldnt have the 6 Cos team in Croke Park - the size of the crowd would cause them all to die of fright. I think the RDS would do in the unlikely event of the situation arising.
Is GSTQ England's national anthem. I was told by an English man that the proper anthem is Land of Hope and Glory. l
I wouldn't think England specifically has an official anthem. 'Land of Hope and Glory' is played for England's Commonwealth Games gold medallists.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 01, 2008, 10:40:50 PM
Look its easy to be silent playing the Czech republic, the only way to know if things have changed will be for the Republic to play a game of similar importance to the infamous one in WP. Only then can we actually compare.
It's hard work for these OWC boys to keep up their Mary Poppins image when they are venting their disgusted spleen at the Play, the BBC, Marie Jones, Republic fans.
It's all very reminiscent of right wing pressure groups that we have seen in the Republic.
Kielty understands that the play is about bigotry at that time and it would be stupid to change anything just because the nature of that bigotry changes or doesn't exist anymore. What did he say, something like, 'does someone go back and remove the nazis from the Sound of Music just because there are no more nazis'.
Quote from: magickingdom on October 01, 2008, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croaker Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
as hh already said the gaa in essence have allowed it. in all honesty i had no problem whatsoever with gstq or england playing in cp, hope they do it regularly. personally i would however have a major problem with ni playing there. i'm not going to be arsed debating the rights or wrongs of that but thats how i would feel
I suspect, despite what his holiness said, that there would indeed be ructions about the idea of NI playing. I agree no need to debate the reasons. We've heard them all before.
Secondly, how did the quote of my original comment see Croke Park changed to CroAker Park? I didnt spell the stadium name incorrectly.
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2008, 11:37:48 PM
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 01, 2008, 10:40:50 PM
Look its easy to be silent playing the Czech republic, the only way to know if things have changed will be for the Republic to play a game of similar importance to the infamous one in WP. Only then can we actually compare.
It's hard work for these OWC boys to keep up their Mary Poppins image when they are venting their disgusted spleen at the Play, the BBC, Marie Jones, Republic fans.
It's all very reminiscent of right wing pressure groups that we have seen in the Republic.
???
Quote
Kielty understands that the play is about bigotry at that time and it would be stupid to change anything just because the nature of that bigotry changes or doesn't exist anymore. What did he say, something like, 'does someone go back and remove the nazis from the Sound of Music just because there are no more nazis'.
My issue is more that the play is inaccurate with regards to "bigotry at that time", considering that the author claims it to have been factually based on this point.
My other issue with it, having seen the documentary is that it presents a trite, trashy two dimensional view along the lines of:
- Protestants (or NI fans) = dour, angry, bigoted, pretentious, hate-filled, joyless
- Catholics (or RoI fans) = happy-go-lucky, hard-drinking, always singing and joking
Kind of insulting to everyone.
Also the narrative appears to suggest that 'accepting Irishness' for a Northern Irish Protestant means turning your back on your background (excuse the pun), sporting a Tricolour and supporting the Republic of Ireland.
Ironically enough, Jones has now found that she can enjoy herself supporting Northern Ireland, go on away trips, have a drink and a singsong if she wants, all while dressed head to to in green if that floats her boat, and as a bonus her feeling of Irishness doesn't seem to be diminished while doing it. In its own way, as remarkable a journey as the fictional Kenneth McAllister...
So you keep repeating your opinions & your objections and your reasons for both
We do get it.
You are disgusted, insulted and illhumoured on the matter
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croke Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
Wouldn't bother me in the slightest from an idealogical perspective. I would however be concerned about the trouble that such an occasion would inevitably cause - I think all real Norn Iron fans would be grand but there would be quite a few that would describe themselves as fans but who would make the trip with the sole intention of causing as much damage to the stadium and the locality as possible. The same would go for certain sections of the English soccer support. I'm not sure that it would matter the game be held in Croke Park - I'd say any stadium in Dublin would do these boyos just fine
Quote from: MW on October 01, 2008, 11:48:39 PM
Also the narrative appears to suggest that 'accepting Irishness' for a Northern Irish Protestant means turning your back on your background (excuse the pun), sporting a Tricolour and supporting the Republic of Ireland.
I have to agree with this, thought it strange that kenny seemed to have an epiphany that he could be an 'Irishman' from Belfast(!!?) after all, didnt big Ian himself say recently he was proud to be an Irishman, and this clearly wasn't abandoning his own particular brand of culture....??
I would be categorically opposed to the North of Ireland soccer team playing in Croke Park. As one who was at the Omagh tribute game in 1999, at Lansdowne, when they besmirched our national anthem and generally set about antagonising everyone (one p***k at a chip van with his son was slagging a guy wearing a Celtic shirt about the Huns leading Celtic in the Scottish Cup Final), I would not be in favour of hosting them anywhere in Dublin.
In Croke Park, the occasion would undoubtedly be used as an excuse by the love Ulster crowd (who make up the majority of the North's support anyway) to make political points in an aggressive way and could well lead to a repeat of the Lansdowne Road riot in 1995.
I would not be opposed in any way to Northern Ireland playing at Croke Park. In fact I would go far as to say that if, for any reason, NI was left homeless for any period of time (i.e. if Windsor wasn't allowed to be used), then the GAA should offer Croke Park to the IFA for home matches. Of course, the same financial deal as that struck with the FAI and the IRFU should be used. That would at least stop the ferry and airline companies making a load of money out of the IFA and its supporters as they travel to a neighbouring country for matches.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2008, 09:05:42 AM
I would be categorically opposed to the North of Ireland soccer team playing in Croke Park. As one who was at the Omagh tribute game in 1999, at Lansdowne, when they besmirched our national anthem and generally set about antagonising everyone (one p***k at a chip van with his son was slagging a guy wearing a Celtic shirt about the Huns leading Celtic in the Scottish Cup Final), I would not be in favour of hosting them anywhere in Dublin.
In Croke Park, the occasion would undoubtedly be used as an excuse by the love Ulster crowd (who make up the majority of the North's support anyway) to make political points in an aggressive way and could well lead to a repeat of the Lansdowne Road riot in 1995.
Did you foam at the mouth this morning as you typed that?
iluvni - another WUM.
Bet you expected everyone to be typing like mad about NI playing in CP, saying no way etc etc
::)
Sorry lads, but I don't ever want to see or hear the following in Croke Park:
Bastardised Ulster Flags with the British crown superimposed, waved in a provocative manner
Union Jacks waved in a provocative manner
The English National anthem plagiarised by an Irish team wearing green, with the words "No Surrender" added.
Chants of Ulster 'Till I die.
And all four of the above and a helluva lot more if the FAI team was playing the IFA team
Quote from: full back on October 02, 2008, 10:18:24 AM
iluvni - another WUM.
Bet you expected everyone to be typing like mad about NI playing in CP, saying no way etc etc
::)
Some have, some havent. Most arent remotely intersted. I am, thats why I asked the question.
Your point?
Dalymount park would be more suitable for the crowd the north attracts....sure they were crying themselves to sleep at night at the idea of being dwarfed in the proposed 35,000 maze stadium! :D
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croke Park?
The above was your question....
My point is simple, very simple, they would be allowed to play if the Republic were fixed against them
There was no stipulation, regarding Rule 42, about the Northern Ireland soccer team
Hope this clears it up
Quote from: saffron sam2 on October 02, 2008, 09:42:29 AM
I would not be opposed in any way to Northern Ireland playing at Croke Park. In fact I would go far as to say that if, for any reason, NI was left homeless for any period of time (i.e. if Windsor wasn't allowed to be used), then the GAA should offer Croke Park to the IFA for home matches. Of course, the same financial deal as that struck with the FAI and the IRFU should be used. That would at least stop the ferry and airline companies making a load of money out of the IFA and its supporters as they travel to a neighbouring country for matches.
This would be a very interesting situation, primarily because I'm pretty sure the IFA would never seek to play in Croke Park - this would after all require their supporters to travel to the papists den...
On the contrary, some of the IFA players, including the Sunderland substitute (surely this guy should be close to qualifying for the Guinness Book of Records in terms of the number of times he's been a Premier League Substitute) David Healy, have positively drooled about the prospect of playing at Croker.
It must never happen and any suggestion of it happening must be challenged forthwith, for the reasons I have previously articulated. >:(
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2008, 12:54:00 PM
On the contrary, some of the IFA players, including the Sunderland substitute (surely this guy should be close to qualifying for the Guinness Book of Records in terms of the number of times he's been a Premier League Substitute) David Healy, have positively drooled about the prospect of playing at Croker.
It must never happen and any suggestion of it happening must be challenged forthwith, for the reasons I have previously articulated. >:(
Na tony most of his time on the sub bench has been in the lower leagues! :D
Fred :D
Then he qualifies for multiple entries into the Guinness Book of Records :D
Hes probably got a splinter from every league ground in england!
He gets more splinters from the various grounds than goals anyway
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2008, 12:54:00 PM
On the contrary, some of the IFA players, including the Sunderland substitute (surely this guy should be close to qualifying for the Guinness Book of Records in terms of the number of times he's been a Premier League Substitute) David Healy, have positively drooled about the prospect of playing at Croker.
It must never happen and any suggestion of it happening must be challenged forthwith, for the reasons I have previously articulated. >:(
Typical bigoted hatred coming from the same man who only a few months back was calling in the media for 'united' team to face Brazil at Croke Park. If the greatest goalscorer in Irish football history wouldnt be welcome there under your terms, who would be?
From the man who comes on claiming the GAA wouldnt have NI in their stadium when they have already given this the green light for this to happen, then tried to presume we all found GSTQ "hard to swallow" when played in CP.
Mock Tony all you want, you are just as bad.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 02, 2008, 02:06:07 PM
From the man who comes on claiming the GAA wouldnt have NI in their stadium when they have already given this the green light for this to happen, then tried to presume we all found GSTQ "hard to swallow" when played in CP.
Mock Tony all you want, you are just as bad.
Some would say worse! at least tony is on the wind up most of the time
Quote from: haranguerer on October 02, 2008, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: MW on October 01, 2008, 11:48:39 PM
Also the narrative appears to suggest that 'accepting Irishness' for a Northern Irish Protestant means turning your back on your background (excuse the pun), sporting a Tricolour and supporting the Republic of Ireland.
I have to agree with this, thought it strange that kenny seemed to have an epiphany that he could be an 'Irishman' from Belfast(!!?) after all, didnt big Ian himself say recently he was proud to be an Irishman, and this clearly wasn't abandoning his own particular brand of culture....??
Ian is politician, another day he is British, the next day Northern Irish.
The play isn't about abandoning a culture, it is about a man losing his bigotry.
That's the freedom our hero experiences at the end in a bad News situation experienced away from his home.
In this fable, Windsor Park and New York were just 2 of the background locations,
he also had his family, his workplace, his attitudes to fellow catholics, his golf club.
The issue was his institutionalised bigotry, he turned his back on bigoted habits.
Traveling Air Lingus broadened his mind, talking to people, experiencing people, getting an inkling for another culture
in another location all helped him expose his own bigotry to himself and set him up for losing it.
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 02, 2008, 02:06:07 PM
From the man who comes on claiming the GAA wouldnt have NI in their stadium when they have already given this the green light for this to happen, then tried to presume we all found GSTQ "hard to swallow" when played in CP.
Mock Tony all you want, you are just as bad.
I think from some of the responses to my questions, I was correct to assume there would be issues raised withing GAA circles about it.... as there were regarding GSTQ with England. Perhaps you prefer to ignore that or pretend questions werent raised but sure, thats up to you.
You defend Fearon as you wish.
The GAA have democratically decided to allow NI to play in Croke park, get that into your head.
Some people might dissaprove, but thats all they can do, its a done deal if they draw each other for a game.
I cant see how you think saying you are "as bad as Tony" is defending him btw ???
I am opposed to the appearance of this team in Croker simply because I do not wish for the hallowed environs to be used as a demonstration pad for unionist/loyalist triumphalism in the stands terraces and pitch (if Mr Healy is in a flute playing mood).
I have no objection against any individual attending Croke Park, regardless of their religious or political opinion, regardless of how distasteful that might be, to watch a GAA/Rugby or soccer game
I'd like to have seen your confidence in the GAA's 'democratic decision' put to the test, yer holiness.
Quote from: iluvni on October 02, 2008, 05:14:32 PM
I'd like to have seen your confidence in the GAA's 'democratic decision' put to the test, yer holiness.
Its not "confidence". the democratic decision has already been made!! ::)
If the Republic have a competitive game against the North during the period of time in which the GAA allow them in as tennants, the GAA cannot stop them playing as they have already said yes to any home competitive game.
But dont let that stop you making shite up.
Quote from: iluvni on October 02, 2008, 05:14:32 PM
I'd like to have seen your confidence in the GAA's 'democratic decision' put to the test, yer holiness.
Are you still talking sh1te?
Are you trying to say the rule would be changed if ROI played NI
If the 2 teams are to play each other & ROI are using CP then the game will be there.
Fearon might not like it, but that is the way it is
Holy fcuk, its like talking to a brick wall sometimes ::)
I think Iluvni is just ripping that there is more people from the north of ireland attend Internationals at croke park than at windsor! :D
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 11:43:09 PM
Quote from: magickingdom on October 01, 2008, 08:33:18 PM
Quote from: iluvni on October 01, 2008, 05:18:15 PM
Must ask the opinion here...
would the GAA allow Northern Ireland to play at Croaker Park?
Would that be harder to swallow than GSTQ when England rugby team played?
as hh already said the gaa in essence have allowed it. in all honesty i had no problem whatsoever with gstq or england playing in cp, hope they do it regularly. personally i would however have a major problem with ni playing there. i'm not going to be arsed debating the rights or wrongs of that but thats how i would feel
I suspect, despite what his holiness said, that there would indeed be ructions about the idea of NI playing. I agree no need to debate the reasons. We've heard them all before.
Secondly, how did the quote of my original comment see Croke Park changed to CroAker Park? I didnt spell the stadium name incorrectly.
dont know what happened iluvni u did indeed spell it correctly, i can only assume i hit the 'a' key accidently when i copied over your quote...
Quote from: his holiness nb on October 02, 2008, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: iluvni on October 02, 2008, 05:14:32 PM
I'd like to have seen your confidence in the GAA's 'democratic decision' put to the test, yer holiness.
Its not "confidence". the democratic decision has already been made!! ::)
If the Republic have a competitive game against the North during the period of time in which the GAA allow them in as tennants, the GAA cannot stop them playing as they have already said yes to any home competitive game.
But dont let that stop you making shite up.
Not making anything up, simply asking questions and voicing an opinion. You get all aggro if you wish though.
this is exactly why the FAI scum should have been kept out of croker in the 1st place . can you imagine 20,000 Loyalists coming down to watch the IFA V the FAI team . they'd shit all over the place and the norths supporters would be worse if the the stadium hadn't been despoiled by the English ruggerbugger some body might actually care
Quote from: iluvni on October 02, 2008, 03:25:17 PM
I think from some of the responses to my questions, I was correct to assume there would be issues raised withing GAA circles about it.... as there were regarding GSTQ with England. Perhaps you prefer to ignore that or pretend questions werent raised but sure, thats up to you.
You defend Fearon as you wish.
Lads who went on about GSTQ, rugby and respect etc. are a ticket. As far as I can see most of that discussion happen outside GAA circles. Any discussion about it happen before Congress voted to open Croker. Even the Cork delegate who was opposed to opening Croker stated that once it was open then it was up to the tenants to make such decision.
There was umpteen attempts to drag the GAA into whole thing but as our Uachtaráin pointed out that apart from the pre-paid corporate box advertising the stadium was rented "clean". What ads, anthems, flags, security goons etc.. are employed by the IRFU/FAI is there own business.
If the crowd at the Ireland/England rugby international had disrespected the anthem it would have been blamed on the GAA no doubt, even though it would have been rugby fans doing the disrespecting.
If the IFA XI were to play the FAI XI I, as a GAA member, would have concerns. This is not due to an inherent bigotry but due to the fact that there would be a certain element of the IFA XI support that would wish to take advantage of having access to the "Fenian GAA" HQ and a part of the FAI XI support who would respond in kind. However, I wouldn't expect the GAA to renege on prior agreements because of this.
What elements of Unionsim don't seem to grasp is that the Croke Park thing was sensistive to a wider community in Ireland than just the GAA due to fact that it was the scene of civilian deaths at the hands of British forces. However ignorance of such sensitivies has been displayed by the same elements with regard to another Bloody Sunday so it is hardly a surprise now is it?
/Jim.
Quote from: iluvni on October 02, 2008, 07:30:40 PM
Not making anything up, simply asking questions and voicing an opinion. You get all aggro if you wish though.
Not aggro just shocked at your failure to understand basic facts.
You say you would like to see my confidence in a democratic decision being put to the test.
The stupidity of this post is glaring. The democratic decision has already been made.
Theres nothing for me to have faith in, as its already taken place.
How can you want to see my confidence in something that DID happen already put to the test?
You arent making sense, then again, thats not suprising :o