Letter from Peter Makem, once Armagh manager. This version published in the Irish Times.
Madam, - The back door is now the front door. After Tyrone's defeat of Dublin in Croke Park in the All Ireland quarter-finals it is more and more obvious that progress in the championship comes down to peaking in mid-August instead of June or July. In other words it means getting out of the provincial championship as early as possible with minimum fuss and setting out on the lucrative back-door route. With the exception of Cork, all the other three provincial champions, Armagh, Galway and Dublin, have been decisively eliminated at the quarter-final stage.
It is now beyond dispute that if a county wants to go far in the All Ireland championship, the last thing they need is a provincial title. Armagh, Dublin and Galway have all peaked far too early and have paid the penalty for taking the provincial championships seriously.
In recent years, Kerry appear to have have simply handed the Munster final to Cork under the pretence of "being out of form" or having "lost their appetite for championship football". They led at half time against Cork by nine points in the most recent Munster final - a similar sort of situation to the previous year - and "collapsed" in the second half, trying to convince everybody that they were in decline and that an era was over.
But in reality they were postponing their championship surge until August, getting another month out of their annual bye into the quarter-finals which they have enjoyed for over 100 years. The back door system is a further blessing to Kerry's position of privilege. Apart from some annual first round bit of shooting practice against Waterford or Limerick, they can now leave the Munster championship to Cork and start things in earnest at the beginning of August when provincial champions have already exhausted themselves. Kerry's last two All Irelands were from the back door, and Galway and Tyrone each have a back-door All Ireland.
It could well be that last year's Ulster champions, Tyrone, finally decided that if they wanted to give the All Ireland another tilt, winning Ulster was, to put in mildly, not that important.
The back door gives space to grow, for the Tyrone side who lost to Down in June and the Tyrone who annihilated Dublin in August are an ocean apart. Dublin's four successive Leinster titles have proved to be a millstone round their necks, as have Armagh's recent Ulster wins.
People talk about the back door giving weaker teams much more championship exposure etc, but it merely lengthens their walk along the plank.
It was set up solely to bring in more revenue, for it is hard to believe that any organisation could propose and pass such a pathetic system for the sake of the game. The old provincial system was of course a very bad system of one-round knock-outs and needed to be replaced by giving every team a series of games with equality of opportunity for all. The reality now is that one bad system is being destroyed by an even worse system. - Yours, etc,
PETER MAKEM, Armagh Rd, Newry.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 25, 2008, 11:01:04 PM
Letter from Peter Makem, once Armagh manager. This version published in the Irish Times.
Madam, - The back door is now the front door. After Tyrone's defeat of Dublin in Croke Park in the All Ireland quarter-finals it is more and more obvious that progress in the championship comes down to peaking in mid-August instead of June or July. In other words it means getting out of the provincial championship as early as possible with minimum fuss and setting out on the lucrative back-door route. With the exception of Cork, all the other three provincial champions, Armagh, Galway and Dublin, have been decisively eliminated at the quarter-final stage.
It is now beyond dispute that if a county wants to go far in the All Ireland championship, the last thing they need is a provincial title. Armagh, Dublin and Galway have all peaked far too early and have paid the penalty for taking the provincial championships seriously.
In recent years, Kerry appear to have have simply handed the Munster final to Cork under the pretence of "being out of form" or having "lost their appetite for championship football". They led at half time against Cork by nine points in the most recent Munster final - a similar sort of situation to the previous year - and "collapsed" in the second half, trying to convince everybody that they were in decline and that an era was over.
But in reality they were postponing their championship surge until August, getting another month out of their annual bye into the quarter-finals which they have enjoyed for over 100 years. The back door system is a further blessing to Kerry's position of privilege. Apart from some annual first round bit of shooting practice against Waterford or Limerick, they can now leave the Munster championship to Cork and start things in earnest at the beginning of August when provincial champions have already exhausted themselves. Kerry's last two All Irelands were from the back door, and Galway and Tyrone each have a back-door All Ireland.
It could well be that last year's Ulster champions, Tyrone, finally decided that if they wanted to give the All Ireland another tilt, winning Ulster was, to put in mildly, not that important.
The back door gives space to grow, for the Tyrone side who lost to Down in June and the Tyrone who annihilated Dublin in August are an ocean apart. Dublin's four successive Leinster titles have proved to be a millstone round their necks, as have Armagh's recent Ulster wins.
People talk about the back door giving weaker teams much more championship exposure etc, but it merely lengthens their walk along the plank.
It was set up solely to bring in more revenue, for it is hard to believe that any organisation could propose and pass such a pathetic system for the sake of the game. The old provincial system was of course a very bad system of one-round knock-outs and needed to be replaced by giving every team a series of games with equality of opportunity for all. The reality now is that one bad system is being destroyed by an even worse system. - Yours, etc,
PETER MAKEM, Armagh Rd, Newry.
Looks like this Peter boy should do a fact find before he writes in to the Times - poor knowledge of football from someone that should know about but I guess when you start whinging about poor armaghs lack of success compared to Kerry and Tyrone its hard to be reasonable! (he must have had a right oul cry with S McDonnell about the dreadful backdoor system!!!!!)
I don't think teams go out to lose but I honestly shook my head at the Armagh players and supporters who celebrated relatively wildly the Ulster titles recently, thinking it was a step closer to Sam. Steven McDonnell was gesturing like a man who'd won the lottery on the podium this year. For teams who harbour serious designs on Sam, provincial titles are simply gongs you pick up on the way but present a route that'll leave you under-prepared for teams who have been playing white heat games week-in week-out.
Unless you have exceptionally talented and manically driven players like Kerry have, you'll struggle to compete in August if you go the front door.
Alot of merit in what Makem says, although its debatable whether Armagh peaked at any stage this year.
QuoteIn recent years, Kerry appear to have have simply handed the Munster final to Cork.
Pure shite, Cork have won 4 Munster titles in the last 10 years. 1999, 2002 after a replay with Kerry, 2006 after another replay, and this year, we have won the others, hardly a team simply handing the Munster title to Cork. Winning the Munster title is still very important to Kerry, and some years Cork will beat us and Limerick have also given it a good rattle recently, but winning the Munster title gives the best and direct route of getting to a quarter final.
QuoteIt is now beyond dispute that if a county wants to go far in the All Ireland championship, the last thing they need is a provincial title
Ahem.............2004 & 2007 Kerry - Munster and All Ireland Champions.
QuoteThey led at half time against Cork by nine points in the most recent Munster final
T'was only 8 we wanted to give them some chance.
QuoteKerry's last two All Irelands were from the back door,
2006 yes correct, but in 2007 we won Munster but never mind the facts drive on with your rant.
Quotegetting another month out of their annual bye into the quarter-finals which they have enjoyed for over 100 years.
Surely if we were handing the Munster title to Cork we would then be into the qualifiers and not the bye into the quarter finals as stated. And as the quarter finals are only around since 2001 it make a total laugh of his statement.
Wait until Mike Sheehy gets hold of this article, lads ye are only throwing petrol on his fire.
The is the kind of crap that passes for letters in the Times these day. Can someone lock the door on this fool in the padded room and take the crayons off him before he harms himself.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on August 25, 2008, 11:24:30 PM
The is the kind of crap that passes for letters in the Times these day. Can someone lock the door on this fool in the padded room and take the crayons off him before he harms himself.
Another Armaghian has been getting away with it for years.
The editor of the Irish Times hates ye as well KM ;)
Even if I posted the letter, I don't really believe this myself. This should not turn into another thread about Armagh specifically, but winning Ulster did not stop us beating Wexford. Over the years there has been some problems with large gaps between games, but the Ulster replay ensured that this was not the case this year. The year Armagh did win Sam we played Tyrone in the first round, so much for taking it easy in the early stages. What has happened though is that Kerry do take it a bit easier in the Munster final, whatever KM says. Then other provincial champions ended up playing Kerry in the quarters, Armagh 2006 and Galway 2008 didn't reach the semi finals because Kerry had dropped into the qualifiers, had they been reached the semis they might have ended up being beaten by Kerry in the final instead, which would put a different look on things. Armagh may have been complacent against Wexford, but surely Tyrone had enough experience for Dublin not to underrate them, I am not sure that it is the fault of the Leinster championship.
Whatever about Munster, and the rest of the provinces, I think the fact that we were dumped out of the Ulster Championship by Down not only did that not harm our chances, it actually enhanced them very considerably (as I believe I said at the time). Suddenly, expectations were non-existent and the spotlight and pressure were off, which allowed the team to get down to the serious business in hand unhassled and unhindered, and just stocking up on the reserves of determination to prove the doubters and the pessimists wrong (job not nearly finished yet).
I'm not saying that MH went out to deliberately seek an early ejection, more that he very purposely did not attempt to peak for any of the Ulster games, and instead intended to use the games themselves primarily as a vehicle for fitness, and if an Ulster flowed from that then so be it. Similarly with the Qualifier games, again without any great pressure or weight of expectation, the fitness levels improved with each game until they reached something of an explosive peak against Dublin. High risk perhaps, in that had the Dublin game not been postponed by a week we may not have been as fresh, but a risk worth taking nonetheless.
So, whatever about the rest (of the provinces), the Ulster Championship is a definite handicap, it would appear.
Maybe the Ulster championship is a handicap, but there are no guarantees in the qualifiers either. Look at Monaghan this year: we're no worldbeaters ourselves, but we came very, very close to beating Monaghan, as did Derry, before Monaghan got stuck with Kerry again. Had Monaghan drawn Kildare instead of Kerry, there is a very strong chance that they would be in an All Ireland semi-final now (or at least would be licking their wounds after losing narrowly to Kerry on Sunday!). Now obviously the better teams will benefit from tough games, provided they win them of course, but this year's purge of provincial winners was at least partly down to the luck of the draw in Galway's (and probably Cork's) case, and complacency in Dublin and Armagh's (I'm not saying Tyrone would not still have won, but the Dubs are not 12 points the inferior of Tyrone).
QuoteWait until Mike Sheehy gets hold of this article, lads ye are only throwing petrol on his fire.
Yerra, these days there is no need to wind them up at all...they do it themselves....I'm not sure whether O'Mahoney deserves a boot up the hole for his actions on Sunday or a medal for his good work in winding up nordies ! Its hilarious :D
QuoteI'm not sure whether O'Mahoney deserves a boot up the hole for his actions on Sunday or a medal for his good work in winding up nordies ! Its hilarious
Now now Mikey it's plain for all to see that your "merchant material" took one hell of a beaten this past weekend :D
Think we'll leave any reversing, be it psychology or otherwise to Molly backing in to ye in the auld barn :-*
In the mean time, we'll all wait with abated breath for the day that you actually post something constructive on a
kerry thread
on this board and leave the obvious obsession with Tyrone behind ye...that's what's hilarious to all bar yourself :-*
Now in to your Peter the Great Jammies and off to bed with ye ;)
If Peter Makem is the first person in Armagh to realise this then hes also the shrewdest. Listen when Tyrone lifted the Anglo Celt last year half the crowd were already in their cars. Its meaningless these days to concentrate on Ulster if it stops you achieveing All Ireland winning momentum. Comapre this to the hysteria of Mc Donnell and Mc Keever doing the tango on the steps of the Gerry Arthurs in front of a packed pitch. This was Armagh saying we are satisfied and content weith our lot and happy to be the best team in the Ulster tournament. Note I said the tournament because I deem the Anglocelt as reduced to the level of a tournament which is nice to win fior a bit of bragging. (Heres one how many times have Armagh beaten Tyrone in the overall championship since 1999. Arm - 2 wins, Tyrone 3 wins with 1 draw) Im sure the Wexford manager Jason Ryan watched these celebrations, took out his notebook and pen and wrote down in 30 seconds how Wexford were going to beat Armagh. I fully expect in year 2 of O Donnells reign a much superior and focussed outfit but the fans must share in that focus and not lose the run of themselves at beating the Fermanaghs of this world in Ulster finals.
Quote from: ONeill on August 25, 2008, 11:18:00 PM
I don't think teams go out to lose but I honestly shook my head at the Armagh players and supporters who celebrated relatively wildly the Ulster titles recently, thinking it was a step closer to Sam. Steven McDonnell was gesturing like a man who'd won the lottery on the podium this year.
Quote from: feetofflames on August 26, 2008, 10:02:51 AM
Comapre this to the hysteria of Mc Donnell and Mc Keever doing the tango on the steps of the Gerry Arthurs in front of a packed pitch. This was Armagh saying we are satisfied and content weith our lot and happy to be the best team in the Ulster tournament.
Of course none of this actually happened, but don't let he facts get in the way of your rant lads....
It was a bit stupid of the Times to print Makem's reasonably argued letter yesterday, after the Cork had almost beaten a vastly superior Kerry the previous day in Croker.
A few of us were discussing this after the match on Sunday as I asked the question do you think Mickey Harte purposely planned to go back door this year.
I think the general consensus was that yes it is harder to come out of Ulster and then re-motivate yourself for the AI quaterfinal against a team who probably got beaten the Sunday before whilst you havent played now for 3 or 4 weeks and have another wee medal in your pocket
I reckon Mickey Harte thought to himself Kerry have won the Most AIs and most of them required them to play 2 or 3 good games tops
So whilst he creates a decoy story of how the current format isn't fair to provincial winners, Micky is cleverly lowering expectations up til July and then upping the ante and self belief in the squad whilst motivating them with lines like "Are we gonna prove these lads wrong that we're has beens"
Of course its a risky game but Harte can be a shrewd ruthless man and whilst he may not purposely go out to lose matches early in the summer he certainly looks to have his team playing only at a fraction of what they can
Question is of course can they turn it on and off like a tap when they need to or is all this a bunch of crap and just a manipulation of the truth depending on results.
Had Tyrone lost the 2005 final jouranlists would have written Yes Tyrone were tired from their 10 match marathon whereas when they won it was like...
Kerry hadn't come thru the wars like Tyrone and weren't battle hardened.
there is no way on this earth that any manager plans to go the back door route. if you find yourself there then fair enough, you adapt and make the most of it, including the beneficial run of games.
Thats just naivity, It takes a hell of a lot of effort to win Ulster - the effort expended cost both Armagh and Fermanagh dearly this year.
It's reality
no its naivity
That you believe that explains a lot of your posts
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 26, 2008, 04:46:33 AM
QuoteWait until Mike Sheehy gets hold of this article, lads ye are only throwing petrol on his fire.
Yerra, these days there is no need to wind them up at all...they do it themselves....I'm not sure whether O'Mahoney deserves a boot up the hole for his actions on Sunday or a medal for his good work in winding up nordies ! Its hilarious :D
What game were you watching? I thought Kerry were playing Cork in the one I watched? What part of the North are they from?
I found O'Mahoney's antics highly amusing, but I would imagine it was Cork people who were wound up by it.
Anyway watching the replay it is clear the whole thing was instigated and managed by Donaghy, a Tyrone plant whose mission is to destroy the purity of Kerry football. It's time you saw through this rouse and sent him back up to us?
Quote from: Take Your Points on August 26, 2008, 07:49:21 PM
The whole "Mickey is the best, knows how to get AI through backdoor, etc" will look a bit stupid if Wexford manage to put one over Tyrone on Sunday. Will all theories change with a Wexford win. I knew Tyrone would beat Dublin but while Wexford are not the best they will put up more of a fight against Tyrone given the confidence gained in beating Armagh. All this theorising would be best left until 23rd September.
These warnings would be better heeded if you didn't admit you were planned Monday as a holiday.
Quote from: feetofflames on August 26, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
Thats just naivity, It takes a hell of a lot of effort to win Ulster - the effort expended cost both Armagh and Fermanagh dearly this year.
So, what exactly are you saying....that MH did plan to go the back door route ?
That Peter Makem is a sincere man and does care about his football is a no-brainer. He makes his case here and he does indeed highlight negative aspects of the back door system. I have no problem with that.
However, if somebody else takes a counter view about the same system, I've no doubt at all that an equally valid case can be argued.
People talk about the back door giving weaker teams much more championship exposure etc, but it merely lengthens their walk along the plank.
I can't deny that to be a fact;-Kerry or other heavyweight sides can't be gotten rid of if they happen to misfire on a given day. The system is weighed in favour of the stronger teams. But for all its faults, the back door does offer hope to so-called weaker counties as well.
It is most unlikely that Wexford would be appearing in Croke Park this weekend if it wasn't for the system and their chances of appearing in a semi final at any time in the foreseeable future would have remained very slim indeed if it wasn't for the self same system.
Sligo certainly made the headlines back in the early noughties for a time after the same backdoor was introduced. Monaghan at present have been consistently punching above their traditional weight. The same applies to Fermanagh.
There are many counties for whom the new system is the only hope of ever getting at least to a Croke Park appearance. It's not without its pitfalls either.
Mayo got walloped in Salthill last year in late May and then had seven weeks to wait for their next game. This year Kildare had four straight weeks of competitive football.
The new setup has its own potential drawbacks for all counties.
It is now beyond dispute that if a county wants to go far in the All Ireland championship, the last thing they need is a provincial title.
Zat so? I think quite a few All Ireland winners have gone the provincial crown route without apparent harm.
They led at half time against Cork by nine points in the most recent Munster final - a similar sort of situation to the previous year - and "collapsed" in the second half, trying to convince everybody that they were in decline and that an era was over.
That's a serious allegation and is not backed up by any sort of evidence. Did Kerry just 'collapse' in the second half without a thought for their supporters or the public at large and the cost and effort of attending a game that Kerry knew full well they were going to lose? I think Makem makes an unfounded allegation here.
There have been rumours about Armagh and Tyrone throwing provincial games for some years also. I don't know if those rumours are true and Makem offers no evidence to back up his claim but getting knocked out early is no sure-fire fire way to win an All Ireland either. For one thing, once you enter the back door you have little choice in selecting your next opponent.
I don't think Makem has made his case.
Quote from: Fuzzman on August 26, 2008, 02:09:12 PM
A few of us were discussing this after the match on Sunday as I asked the question do you think Mickey Harte purposely planned to go back door this year.
I think the general consensus was that yes it is harder to come out of Ulster and then re-motivate yourself for the AI quaterfinal against a team who probably got beaten the Sunday before whilst you havent played now for 3 or 4 weeks and have another wee medal in your pocket
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 26, 2008, 08:41:52 PM
Quote from: feetofflames on August 26, 2008, 02:31:58 PM
Thats just naivity, It takes a hell of a lot of effort to win Ulster - the effort expended cost both Armagh and Fermanagh dearly this year.
So, what exactly are you saying....that MH did plan to go the back door route ?
Was any of you actually the first round ulster championship matches between Tyrone and Down, If Tyrone were trying to get beat, they went a hard way about it.
If Kerry were out to deliberately lose the Munster final, why would they have run up such a big half-time lead?
Makem has just been on with Dunseith on Radio Uladh and he actually said and I quote,
"Kerry threw the last two Munster Finals". Unquote.
Dangerous talk
Makem has always been a loose cannon and really should be given a fool's pardon. Anyone who takes him seriously is as bad as he is. he wrote a letter in the cross examiner this week of equal nonsense content.
Who is this lad Makem ? Is he a singer or what ?
My fears for the status of the provincial titles are a little heightened after a few of this weeks events - including the picking of the all star team.
2 all stars for the 4 provincial champions is a poor return. One provincial champion in the AIF semi finals.
Added to Mickey Hartes comments on the 2009 Ulster championship draw in which he states:
"The way the draw has gone for us, Ulster isn't going to be easy. We play Armagh first and, if we are successful there, we meet Monaghan or Derry.
"So if you had to go to the pin of your collar to win Ulster, I don't think it would be a good idea because you are going to come in a tired team at a time in the championship when that matters most."
I would certainly wonder what shape the provincials will take on in the next 5 years. Surely there must be some bonus (for want of a better word) for making and winning the provincial title.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 16, 2008, 05:52:16 PM
Surely there must be some bonus (for want of a better word) for making and winning the provincial title.
There is. You get straight to the All Ireland Quarter Final.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 16, 2008, 05:52:16 PM
Added to Mickey Hartes comments on the 2009 Ulster championship draw in which he states:
"The way the draw has gone for us, Ulster isn't going to be easy. We play Armagh first and, if we are successful there, we meet Monaghan or Derry.
"So if you had to go to the pin of your collar to win Ulster, I don't think it would be a good idea because you are going to come in a tired team at a time in the championship when that matters most."
And that's exactly the perspective he had on this year's Ulster too Puck (as I said at the time), not overly fussed about winning it, and definitely not peaking for it (which is
not the same thing as going out to lose it).
Which sounds like a death knell to me - its the first time (that I recall) that a manager has publically acknowledged that the provincials arent the time of the championship "that matters most". Or maybe it will mean there will be some variety to the winners of the provincials.
In any way its a different way of thinking from his first few years in charge - where he wanted to win every game, and every competition.
But he's a pragmatist, and with the raw edge of experience he's now realistic enough to acknowledge that winning every game is not really a feasible aim with the current demands on players over a season.
The whole system as it stands is badly flawed. The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions.
An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.
I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year. The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that.
Open draw and may the best team win.
Quote from: balladmaker on October 16, 2008, 09:31:28 PM
The whole system as it stands is badly flawed. The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions.
An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.
I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year. The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that.
Open draw and may the best team win.
That appears to be the way we are headed/need to go - but what will be done with the provincials? Will they become the equivilent of the national league in terms of importance?
Quote from: balladmaker on October 16, 2008, 09:31:28 PM
The whole system as it stands is badly flawed. The provincial championships should be run completely seperately from the All Ireland, they should be two seperate and distinct competitions.
An open draw is one obvious way to go for the All Ireland or playing it as a Champions League style format where each team gets a series of games, therefore removing any perceived advantages for teams coming from weaker provinces, who only have to turn up to progress to the next round it seems.
I don't buy into the argument that the backdoor is there to give weaker counties greater exposure to championship games, rather than one game a year. The backdoor system is a money making venture for the GAA, and nothing more than that.
Open draw and may the best team win.
Agree with that, with the exception of the "money making venture" piece. The motives were pure enough, but it's neither fish nor fowl, and will continue to flounder until the bullet's bitten and the provincials as a knockout are completey disengaged from the round robin All-Ireland itself (as you say).
Quote from: Puckoon on October 16, 2008, 09:36:02 PM
That appears to be the way we are headed/need to go - but what will be done with the provincials? Will they become the equivilent of the national league in terms of importance?
In effect, yes. The League
per se, would disappear. In their place we'd have both the stand alone provincials, and the league portion of the All-Ireland (eight groups of four, or six of four and two of five).
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 16, 2008, 08:31:48 PM
But he's a pragmatist, and with the raw edge of experience he's now realistic enough to acknowledge that winning every game is not really a feasible aim with the current demands on players over a season.
i did notice one thing this year, from the westmeath game onwards, mickey appeared to be using players in a rotation system, eg. penrose,mellon,holmes,hughes along with brian mcguigan. ..i believe this is a different approach to burnout ...maybe players even getting tired or as the case may be ... peaking too soon.
lesser known squad players .... but still fine lads, can push for a place in early season games including the championship, i believe tyrone can win ulster with the squad system ..
your thoughts would be interesting:
Agree km, there definitely was a policy of (potentially) sacfricing results with the wider aim of bringing more of the squad up to the Championship mark. And that's an approach that will be expanded upon this coming season, I'd say -- MH was in something of unknown territory (abandoning the win-every-game mentality), and now that it has actually borne fruit, and with the dismal failures to successfully defend in '04 and '06 (unfavourable circumstances notwithstanding), he'll make it his business to be even more effective about it next year.
What's wrong with "the GAA" making money?
Nothing in the slightest Hardy, quite the reverse; but initiating something to make money, and making money as a result of initiating something -- Qualifiers, for example -- are not the same animal.
I'm quite sure the idea behind the qualifiers was to promote the games better and ensure that players werent training 6 months for 1 game. Money would not have been an issue - the people who came up with the system would not have received a penny from the extra revenue generated. Something tells me Art McCrory might have been involved in coming up with it - could be totally wrong.
Yeah Fear. i believe mickeys focus, may be on moving the game on in that regard, .. burnout, fitness and recurring injury problems to prominent players can be better addressed .... mickey harte is fierce professional in his approach to the game, and will keep pushing the boundries for the welfare of his players,
as regards winning your province.. it won't be the end of the world, but i still think deep down, he wants to achieve that goal, on his way to retaining sam, with his system in place of course.
getting straight throught to the quarters is the bonus, in my opinion ..... everybody knows the score ... go the scenic route and take your chances, and as for weaker counties get your grass roots sorted ...... tyrone went down that road.
Quote from: kickingmule on October 16, 2008, 10:57:39 PM
as regards winning your province.. it won't be the end of the world, but i still think deep down, he wants to achieve that goal, on his way to retaining sam, with his system in place of course.
getting straight throught to the quarters is the bonus, in my opinion ..... everybody knows the score ... go the scenic route and take your chances...
I agree, he'd love to win the province, but not at the expense of the Big Prize -- no comparison for him now.
It's not like say, 2002, where being beaten in the early stages of the Ulster was a crippling psychological blow (ultimately), rather it's something to be learned from now, and something from which to draw inspiration.
the man is a legend .... front door, back door and bejasus even the side door will do me grand!
roll on armagh!!!
Is this just a Mickyhartetyrone thread or can we all join in? :D
Leave your mucky shoes at the door and pull up a chair by all means.
Hey Mickey you're so fine, you're so fine, you blow my mind.
Yes Fear, I agree that the backdoor was not introduced to raise yearly gate takings, however I feel that due to the increase in takings since the backdoor's inception, it could be a stumbling block to having it removed.
Unless they can come up with something which will serve just as well from a financial perspective. Whatever happens, I'd be all for the provincials being detached from the All Ireland, and making the All Ireland an open draw.
Get rid of the provincials. They make no sense. 12 counties. 9 counties. 6 counties. 5 counties plus 2. Seriously warped system.
Quote from: ONeill on October 17, 2008, 09:42:33 PM
Get rid of the provincials. They make no sense.
Try telling that to Sligo in 2007;Westmeath in 2004 or Laois in 2003. And what if Fermanagh had won Ulster............ :'(