I know a lot of Arma boys will be making their way home tails between their legs but they need to ask themselves these questions.
8, 9 or maybe even 10 Ulster titles but shit all AIs to show for it. Similar to Derry in the 90s. The questions have to be:
· Was this just another ordinary team of under achievers or was there an AI in them?
· Can Arma ever recover respectability within football circles having been convincingly whipped by a hurling County at such a vital stage in the competition?
Earlier my Arma mate was seeking to trade 2 AI final hurling tickets for 2 football final tickets. Confidence or just silly cockiness?
who cares , better we dont have to see their ugly football for another year
Quote
· Can Arma ever recover respectability within football circles having been convincingly whipped by a hurling County at such a vital stage in the competition?
Well Wexford can't be that bad, they hammered Down just last week and we all know how great they are :D
I would have thought you'd be embarrassed enough last week without starting this thread to embarrass yourself further.
I think the great Armagh one in a row team has had it's day. They will be remembered for their All Ireland win but also as under achievers who could have won so much more.
The celebrations when they drew Wexford were over the top and disrespectful to Wexford. Will McDonnell stay for another year? Will he be welcome to stay? I think a great opportunity for Armagh was thrown away today.
Couldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
For POG. We haven't won whatever number of Ulsters you have but if we had I can guarantee we would have done more that your lot. PS: getting back to the question. Do you really think there was an AI in this boring team?
You are right. Wexford are not that bad, even with an injured Mattie they proved today they are very good. Consolate yourself with the knowledge that Dublin didn't get the paws on you.
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on August 09, 2008, 08:00:35 PM
Couldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
For POG. We haven't won whatever number of Ulsters you have but if we had I can guarantee we would have done more that your lot. PS: getting back to the question. Do you really think there was an AI in this boring team?
You are right. Wexford are not that bad, even with an injured Mattie they proved today they are very good. Consolate yourself with the knowledge that Dublin didn't get the paws on you.
And if your Granny had balls she'd be your Granda! What a completely stupid statement. How are you going to guarantee anything? Your team never got in that position so your argument is completely redundant!
QuoteCouldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
Is this from someone supporting the county who were part of one of the worse games seen in Croke Park?
Hehehe
Quote
For POG. We haven't won whatever number of Ulsters you have but if we had I can guarantee we would have done more that your lot. PS: getting back to the question. Do you really think there was an AI in this boring team?
:D
Go on amuse me, how could you guarantee that?
Wexford have over achived IMO rather than Armagh under achieving. You shouldn't take it away from them. They won it well on the park.
It says it all about the Armagh support when POG says he was waiting for the final. I'd say there was a fair few like him.
Just up to Tyrone to keep the Ulster flag flying.....
No Ulster teams in the semi for another :(
Quote
It says it all about the Armagh support when POG says he was waiting for the final. I'd say there was a fair few like him.
I can't afford to keep running to croke park, we've been doing it for years now, it's not a novelty.
???
Like I said, it says it all about Armagh supporters.
Screen Exile,
Thanks for the jib and am sorry for mentioning the Derry 90s team, didn't want to hurt you. Unlike Arma you have been through this pain before.
I could come back re your 'redundant arguments' comments but I have hurt you enough already it seems.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 08:12:10 PM
QuoteCouldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
Is this from someone supporting the county who were part of one of the worse games seen in Croke Park?
Hehehe
on a very poor day in dublin. otherwise we're said to be the "aristocrats" and we're known for playing good football.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on August 09, 2008, 08:25:57 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 08:12:10 PM
QuoteCouldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
Is this from someone supporting the county who were part of one of the worse games seen in Croke Park?
Hehehe
on a very poor day in dublin. otherwise we're said to be the "aristocrats" and we're known for playing good football.
Ok I'll let you in on a secret, when people say you're the "aristocrats" - they're kinda mocking you, it's sarcastic, we're all laughing at you.
Sorry.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 08:12:10 PM
QuoteCouldn't agree more DU. Arma have infected the great game with a serious degree of negative and sinister play. The quicker we weed that crap out of the game the better. Well done Wexford for finding the answer to it.
Is this from someone supporting the county who were part of one of the worse games seen in Croke Park?
Hehehe
No but it seems to come from a man whose county were represeted by the winning team in the two of the best games in modern football Down v Derry 1994 & Down v Tyrone 2008.
Talking about worst game in Croke Park. The greatest humiliation in history for an Ulster team. September 1977
[
Quote from: SCENTOFSAM on August 09, 2008, 08:41:39 PM
Talking about worst game in Croke Park. The greatest humiliation in history for an Ulster team. September 1977
1977 doesn't count. It was before football was invented.
sorry. forgot about that
QuoteNo but it seems to come from a man whose county were represeted by the winning team in the two of the best games in modern football Down v Derry 1994 & Down v Tyrone 2008.
Are Down really reduced to talking about good games they've played in?
Awe Com'om lads and lassies, This in not meant to be a slag off Arma thread. Let s return to the original question. Was there an Ai in the 2008 Arma team or were they just kidding themselves?
There was never an All-Ireland in Armagh this year. 2005 was their last hurrah in terms of landing Sam. Francie has now contributed heavily to Armagh's most recent quarter finals losses, although shadowing Donaghy (06) and Forde (08) was a mighty task. You could also add O'Neill (05) to that. His cult status even affected the Armagh management.
From BBC Web
"Wexford had the temerity to move into the lead on the half-hour thanks to their first score from play as PJ Banville pointed.
The Armagh performance didn't improve after half-time with Wexford moving into a 0-8 to 0-7 lead after 49 minute."
Who would belive it?
Armagh have proven to be one of the Best teams of the past 10 years. The back door did Armagh no favours and surely if the old system was still there they would have won more titles. Unlike Kerry and Cork who have a cosy arrangement which sees them every year in the last 12, Armagh has to slug it out in Ulster with 3/4 games before they reach the last 12. Well done Armagh for setting standards of consistently being at the top table for the last number of years.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 08:47:35 PM
QuoteNo but it seems to come from a man whose county were represeted by the winning team in the two of the best games in modern football Down v Derry 1994 & Down v Tyrone 2008.
Are Down really reduced to talking about good games they've played in?
And your point is?
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 09, 2008, 10:29:05 PM
Armagh have proven to be one of the Best teams of the past 10 years. The back door did Armagh no favours and surely if the old system was still there they would have won more titles. Unlike Kerry and Cork who have a cosy arrangement which sees them every year in the last 12, Armagh has to slug it out in Ulster with 3/4 games before they reach the last 12. Well done Armagh for setting standards of consistently being at the top table for the last number of years.
Forgive me but I remember Big Joe deliberately choosing the back door one year and it failed.
"Best team in the past 10 years". Where do you get that from? I would say Arma have been one of the best also-rans in the past 10y.
Quote from: SCENTOFSAM on August 09, 2008, 10:32:46 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on August 09, 2008, 08:47:35 PM
QuoteNo but it seems to come from a man whose county were represeted by the winning team in the two of the best games in modern football Down v Derry 1994 & Down v Tyrone 2008.
Are Down really reduced to talking about good games they've played in?
And your point is?
That Down are so poor they are reduced to talking about good games of football they played in (one of them 14 years ago) ::)
A Wexford fan starts this nthread you would have to grin and accept it, a Tyrone man you would consider a sly dig but you would let them away with it, but a bunch of Down men on here slagging is incredible.
Armagh were not good enough to win this year
They have got it wrong with the style - they lack pace enough to win.
I think they are very close though - just two positions needed changing - 2 faster wing backs are needed - and drop one of the two O'Rourkes - they are both carrying weight in the ar*e.
Armagh have enough good forwards to beat anyone - they lack speed enough - tho the new corner back and MAllon added that.
Bringing McNulty on was a BAD mistake - what kind of a message does that give out?
So 09 .... Peter ... here's the instructions
- Get two faster wing backs
- Move Aaron to the half foward line
- Drop one or both O'Rourkes
- Loose the Mullaghbawn bias
- Inject some speed into the team
Any more help wanted just ask
Come on now lads. You are allowing this thread to degenerate. Can't understand why are Down are featuring so much in the replies, the thread isn't about Down. Instead it is meant to stimulate serious comment on whether the 2008 Arma team had an AI in them or note or did they just have a bad day at the office today?. What might have been had they won today?
Don't let those Down bards get to you - lets have some serious discussion here. To get back to serious discussion, was Francie's ineptitude against a superior footballer exposed today?
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 10:51:40 PM
Armagh were not good enough to win this year
They have got it wrong with the style - they lack pace enough to win.
I think they are very close though - just two positions needed changing - 2 faster wing backs are needed - and drop one of the two O'Rourkes - they are both carrying weight in the ar*e.
Armagh have enough good forwards to beat anyone - they lack speed enough - tho the new corner back and MAllon added that.
Bringing McNulty on was a BAD mistake - what kind of a message does that give out?
So 09 .... Peter ... here's the instructions
- Get two faster wing backs
- Move Aaron to the half foward line
- Drop one or both O'Rourkes
- Loose the Mullaghbawn bias
- Inject some speed into the team
Any more help wanted just ask
Are you a WUM
MOR was one of our best players today
What is this Mullaghbawn bias you speak of, because I have no idea what you are on about ???
I agree he played well - but the problem is that you can only have so many of one type of player on the field or the whole thing slows too much.
I think that with too of them on it the team dynamic is slowed ... don't you agree?
Do you not think that two faster wing backs would have a greater and faster effect on attacking?
I think this is the biggest wekaness Armagh have and Fermangh tried to expliot it by attacking the wings in the first game and nearly did it.
All jking aside ... don't you agree?
For the past decade Armagh have been a good team, they were never a great one. I believe they have over-achieved rather than underachieved given their limitations. While i supported them today and hate to see an Ulster team being beaten in Croker, it will perhaps inject some sense of reality and humility into the boastful arrogant Armagh posters on this forum who are always so quick to denigrate others and celebrate their misfortunes. You are now on the way down lads and its a long road back, dont be in any hurry, you wont be missed, football will survive and prosper without you, and we will perhaps get more games of the quality served up by Kerry and Galway today, counties who have achieved greatness
Are Armagh really on the way down? Down from what? I think they can win Ulster every year if they are fully fit and motivated.
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 11:19:10 PM
I agree he played well - but the problem is that you can only have so many of one type of player on the field or the whole thing slows too much.
I think that with too of them on it the team dynamic is slowed ... don't you agree?
Do you not think that two faster wing backs would have a greater and faster effect on attacking?
I think this is the biggest wekaness Armagh have and Fermangh tried to expliot it by attacking the wings in the first game and nearly did it.
All jking aside ... don't you agree?
Dont agree with you
What is this Mullaghbawn bias you are on about?
Dream on O Neill, unless you are referring to Road Bowls
What makes you think McDonnell, Clarke, the Kernans, McKeever, Vernon, Hearty, O'Rourke, the Mallons etc cannot win Ulster again?
Quote from: full back on August 09, 2008, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 11:19:10 PM
I agree he played well - but the problem is that you can only have so many of one type of player on the field or the whole thing slows too much.
I think that with too of them on it the team dynamic is slowed ... don't you agree?
Do you not think that two faster wing backs would have a greater and faster effect on attacking?
I think this is the biggest wekaness Armagh have and Fermangh tried to expliot it by attacking the wings in the first game and nearly did it.
All jking aside ... don't you agree?
Dont agree with you
What is this Mullaghbawn bias you are on about?
(Apolgies Dromintee not Mullagahbawn)
I think the overall team dynamic - certainly in defence - has shifted from a balance of pace and strength to a more laboured and slowed movment
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 11:36:31 PM
Quote from: full back on August 09, 2008, 11:23:53 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 11:19:10 PM
I agree he played well - but the problem is that you can only have so many of one type of player on the field or the whole thing slows too much.
I think that with too of them on it the team dynamic is slowed ... don't you agree?
Do you not think that two faster wing backs would have a greater and faster effect on attacking?
I think this is the biggest wekaness Armagh have and Fermangh tried to expliot it by attacking the wings in the first game and nearly did it.
All jking aside ... don't you agree?
Dont agree with you
What is this Mullaghbawn bias you are on about?
(Apolgies Dromintee not Mullagahbawn)
I think the overall team dynamic - certainly in defence - has shifted from a balance of pace and strength to a more laboured and slowed movment
Thats the end of that then....
So on all else we agree? lol! ;)
I think Armas future at the top will be assured providing the rest of the club teams rise to the fantastic example set by Cross over the past decade, but can they?
There is no doubt we are losing a number of key men, McGrane, Oisin, Francie, Enda etc. Great men who have gave us great service but it is now time to introduce the new breed in full, Vernon, Donaghy, Lavery, Kernans etc. We will be competitve but won't compete for AI for the foreseeable future. The new breed need time remember the 02 team was made up of men that hadn't won a championship game for 6/7 years before the great run from 99 on.
There is potential in this team, where was the league performance against Dublin when we played a great expansive and running game. Stayed for the 2nd game yesterday and it was great to see 2 teams going toe to toe with no sweeper in sight. Time to change
Don't feed the troll!!
B Tierney,
J McNulty, E McNulty, F Bellew,
A O'Rourke, K McGeeney, A McCann,
P McGrane, J Toal,
P McKeever, J McEntee, O McConville,
S McDonnell, R Clarke, D Marsden.
Subs: B O'Hagan for McEntee, T McEntee for McKeever.
That was the 2002 vintage - Highly likely the 13 and 14 will be all that remains in 2009.
the rugby league world cup is on later this year.
im sure armagh will find their level somewhere in that.
Quote from: Stevie Nicks on August 10, 2008, 09:08:37 AM
There is no doubt we are losing a number of key men, McGrane, Oisin, Francie, Enda etc. Great men who have gave us great service but it is now time to introduce the new breed in full, Vernon, Donaghy, Lavery, Kernans etc. We will be competitve but won't compete for AI for the foreseeable future. The new breed need time remember the 02 team was made up of men that hadn't won a championship game for 6/7 years before the great run from 99 on.
There is potential in this team, where was the league performance against Dublin when we played a great expansive and running game. Stayed for the 2nd game yesterday and it was great to see 2 teams going toe to toe with no sweeper in sight. Time to change
Very fair post
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2008, 09:36:24 AM
B Tierney,
J McNulty, E McNulty, F Bellew,
A O'Rourke, K McGeeney, A McCann,
P McGrane, J Toal,
P McKeever, J McEntee, O McConville,
S McDonnell, R Clarke, D Marsden.
Subs: B O'Hagan for McEntee, T McEntee for McKeever.
That was the 2002 vintage - Highly likely the 13 and 14 will be all that remains in 2009.
And possibly just the number 14
Have to agree with Mohan U& O'Neill here. The pedigree that has been bred into Arma over the past 10y surely will not be wasted.
A couple of youthful changes here and there and Bobs your uncle, back to AI glory yet again.
Has this Armagh team found their level ?
Not yet, they still have a lot further to fall. Oisin has gone, quite a few of the old guard will follow him. They dont have ready made replacements, some of those guys are probably irreplaceable. Their manager had the benefit of basically using Big Joes team for this year, he doesnt seem to have any faith in the new breed at all. What will he do without the likes of Bellew and McGrane? So no Armagh havent found their level yet, not til they reach Division 4 ;)
Actually of all the older players I think Bellew is well able for another year.
If you (can) ignore the goal he had a pretty steady day I thought
Yes , until they find some forwards and inject some pace into the team.
Given that Armagh are likely to do better than any other Ulster team this year, our level isn't too bad yet.
QuoteFor the past decade Armagh have been a good team, they were never a great one. I believe they have over-achieved rather than underachieved given their limitations. While i supported them today and hate to see an Ulster team being beaten in Croker, it will perhaps inject some sense of reality and humility into the boastful arrogant Armagh posters on this forum who are always so quick to denigrate others and celebrate their misfortunes.
I see at least as much boasting and arrogance from Down posters on this forum. The only difference is that Down people boast about thing that ahppened a generation or more ago.
We should have won a second All Ireland. In 2004, I firmly believe we were the best team in the country. In 2005, we were better than Kerry and as good as Tyrone, we just won the wrong match. Since then we've been a steady downward curve but have done well to pick another 2 Ulster titles. We aren't genuine All Ireland contenders and may not be again for a while. But we'll always have the memories.
If Tyrone lose on Saturday, Ulster football will have a sort of 70s/80s look about it. So far, the closest an Ulster team has gotten to winning was the 3-point defeat of Monaghan.
QuoteI see at least as much boasting and arrogance from Down posters on this forum. The only difference is that Down people boast about thing that ahppened a generation or more ago.
We should have won a second All Ireland. In 2004, I firmly believe we were the best team in the country. In 2005, we were better than Kerry and as good as Tyrone, we just won the wrong match. Since then we've been a steady downward curve but have done well to pick another 2 Ulster titles. We aren't genuine All Ireland contenders and may not be again for a while. But we'll always have the memories.
ffs, you didn't even reach the AI semi Finals in 2004 :o :o ..honestly, do lads really believe this stuff..are ye that delusional ?
Look, you were lucky enough to win the AI that you did win so I wouldnt get into this type of speculation. In this parallel universe of "would've,could've,should've" revisionism Eoin Brosnan might have scored with that late attempt and you might end up with no AI at all.
Armagh will be back next year for definite. They have good players coming through and have bled a few the past year or two. Can't understand why the manager didn't put on McKenna earlier than the 70th minute - what was he going to achieve in a minute or two. He is a great runner and the kind of player they needed on Saturday.
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on August 11, 2008, 04:53:04 AM
QuoteI see at least as much boasting and arrogance from Down posters on this forum. The only difference is that Down people boast about thing that ahppened a generation or more ago.
We should have won a second All Ireland. In 2004, I firmly believe we were the best team in the country. In 2005, we were better than Kerry and as good as Tyrone, we just won the wrong match. Since then we've been a steady downward curve but have done well to pick another 2 Ulster titles. We aren't genuine All Ireland contenders and may not be again for a while. But we'll always have the memories.
ffs, you didn't even reach the AI semi Finals in 2004 :o :o ..honestly, do lads really believe this stuff..are ye that delusional ?
Look, you were lucky enough to win the AI that you did win so I wouldnt get into this type of speculation. In this parallel universe of "would've,could've,should've" revisionism Eoin Brosnan might have scored with that late attempt and you might end up with no AI at all.
Agree with you to an extent Mike - would've, could've, should've means diddley squat unfortunately. For Armagh - including us the supporters - there is a belief that we left one or two All Irelands behind and given we won the solitary one with our greatest ever team, that is a matter of serious regret. 2004 would be seen as one that got away. However it is done and dusted and the records cannot be changed. I would say though that Jack 0'Se said the exact same thing in his column in the Sunday Times last year, i.e. that the Fermanagh shock cost Armagh that years All Ireland. I assume you would make the same charge of self delusion at the great man?
As I said - it's a moot point anyway. It's long gone and one for us to look back on with regret.
Quoteffs, you didn't even reach the AI semi Finals in 2004 ..honestly, do lads really believe this stuff..are ye that delusional ?
Its hardly delusional. Armagh let a decent but limited Fermanagh team catch them on the hop in a q/final. Tyrone, for entirely understandable reasons weren't going well that year and Kerry had failed against Ulster sides in the previous two years and would do so again the following year, not beating Armagh or Tyrone until 2006 by which time Armagh had begun their decline. I honestly don't believe, taking the 04 Ulster final performance into acount, had Armagh produced what they were capable of, that any team could have lived with them. Its hardly delusion, its just a hypothetical view about a question we'll never have the answer to. But it is a discussion board after all so nothing wrong with a bit of discussion.
QuoteIn this parallel universe of "would've,could've,should've" revisionism Eoin Brosnan might have scored with that late attempt and you might end up with no AI at all.
And had Barry O'Hagan not dropped a shot into the goalkeepers hands in 2000 we might have ended up with more than 2. Nobody knows. And outside Armagh, I suppose nobody cares.
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 10:51:40 PM
Armagh were not good enough to win this year
They have got it wrong with the style - they lack pace enough to win.
I think they are very close though - just two positions needed changing - 2 faster wing backs are needed - and drop one of the two O'Rourkes - they are both carrying weight in the ar*e.
Armagh have enough good forwards to beat anyone - they lack speed enough - tho the new corner back and MAllon added that.
Bringing McNulty on was a BAD mistake - what kind of a message does that give out?
So 09 .... Peter ... here's the instructions
- Get two faster wing backs
- Move Aaron to the half foward line
- Drop one or both O'Rourkes
- Loose the Mullaghbawn bias
- Inject some speed into the team
Any more help wanted just ask
So which one of the ORourkes pissed on your children on Christman morning?
QuoteBut it is a discussion board after all so nothing wrong with a bit of discussion.
Exactly, if you just say x beat y, no further comment possible, then this would not be a busy board.
Quote from: corn02 on August 11, 2008, 12:58:25 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 09, 2008, 10:51:40 PM
Armagh were not good enough to win this year
They have got it wrong with the style - they lack pace enough to win.
I think they are very close though - just two positions needed changing - 2 faster wing backs are needed - and drop one of the two O'Rourkes - they are both carrying weight in the ar*e.
Armagh have enough good forwards to beat anyone - they lack speed enough - tho the new corner back and MAllon added that.
Bringing McNulty on was a BAD mistake - what kind of a message does that give out?
So 09 .... Peter ... here's the instructions
- Get two faster wing backs
- Move Aaron to the half foward line
- Drop one or both O'Rourkes
- Loose the Mullaghbawn bias
- Inject some speed into the team
Any more help wanted just ask
So which one of the ORourkes pissed on your children on Christman morning?
Mohan didnt know the difference between Dromintee & Mullaghbawn so I wouldnt pay any heed to his rants ::)
I think Wexford's experience in Croke Park this year stood to them. Armagh just didn't seem to have the legs for the big pitch.
One thing that was disappointing was Paul Mc Grane punching a couple of players near the end - this is not how it was supposed to have ended for such a great servant for Armagh but that's football.
They could be from Cross for all it matters - I don't think you can play that many slow men and expect to win an All Irealnd