Unless my eyes are deceiving me, this thread was removed!
So what you think lads? ;D
Admins - an explanation would be nice.
The match is all ticket.
Jayz there was a fair bit of good discussion amongst that thread. we're all capable of stepping between 5times posts are we not?
I think Armagh are happy to be as far as they are. A first round win and a couple of wins in the back door will constitute good progress for peter mcdonnell this year.
At all cost armagh football could do without taking a pasting from the resurgent mourne men. that could set our rebuilding back 10 years.
Quote from: Uladh on June 17, 2008, 09:45:11 PM
Jayz there was a fair bit of good discussion amongst that thread. we're all capable of stepping between 5times posts are we not?
I missed that Uladh - what was the problem?
Do the sell the northern buckfast or the stinky southern stuff in Clones?
Quote from: Uladh on June 17, 2008, 09:45:11 PM
Jayz there was a fair bit of good discussion amongst that thread. we're all capable of stepping between 5times posts are we not?
I think Armagh are happy to be as far as they are. A first round win and a couple of wins in the back door will constitute good progress for peter mcdonnell this year.
At all cost armagh football could do without taking a pasting from the resurgent mourne men. that could set our rebuilding back 10 years.
and your own!
Quote from: fred the red on June 17, 2008, 09:54:20 PM
Do the sell the northern buckfast or the stinky southern stuff in Clones?
The latter, absolutely stinking
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on June 17, 2008, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 17, 2008, 09:45:11 PM
Jayz there was a fair bit of good discussion amongst that thread. we're all capable of stepping between 5times posts are we not?
I missed that Uladh - what was the problem?
I read it before it was taken off - 5times was calling some armagh players knackers / gypseys and generally not getting the tongue in cheek "tone" of the thread. not for the first time either.
i'd imagine he's suspended
I asked how Francie had 'judiced' Mickey Linden...
Never got a chance to read any reply!
Hearty - McVeigh
Mallon - Howard
Bellew - McCartan
Moriarty - Rafferty
Kernan - Carr
O'Rourke - Doyle
McKeever - Murphy
McGrane - Gordon
Toner - Lynch
Vernon - Rodgers
McKeever - Murtagh
O'Rourke - Hughes
McDonnell - Clarke
Clarke - Coulter
Kernan - Sexton
Free taking - Down
Management - Armagh
11 - 3 to Armagh with 3 draws
I'd take Dan Gordon!
Possibly Doyle also... but i'll reserve judgement til the end of the year!
That would be subbing Toner & AOR.
Thats a big call Armagh's management over Downs.
In fairness, at least McDonnell has worked out that you should play defenders in the half back line
Ach the thread was all a bit of fishing.
Agreed Corn. It completely ruins the fun if you have to explain when you're taking the piss.
Hearty - McVeigh
Mallon - Howard
Bellew - McCartan
Moriarty - Rafferty
Kernan - Carr
O'Rourke - Doyle
McKeever - Murphy
McGrane - Gordon
Toner - Lynch
Vernon - Rodgers
McKeever - Murtagh
O'Rourke - Hughes
McDonnell - Clarke
Clarke - Coulter
Kernan - Sexton
I have it 8-4 to Armagh with three draws.
Or Mano a mano
Hearty - McVeigh
Mallon - Sexton
Bellew - Coulter
Moriarty - Clarke
Kernan - Rodgers
O'Rourke -Murtagh
McKeever - Hughes
McGrane - Gordon
Toner- Lynch
Vernon - Carr
McKeever - Doyle
O'Rourke - Murphy
McDonnell - McCartan
Clarke - Rafferty
Kernan - Howard
Free taking - Down
Management - Down
Preparation - Down
Tradition - Down
Class - Down
Buckfast Consumption Arma
Passedit,
thats a very unbiased post
do you actually believe it though
also sent you an email last week, still waiting on reply ;)
Quote from: Uladh on June 18, 2008, 12:45:02 PM
Agreed Corn. It completely ruins the fun if you have to explain when you're taking the piss.
I'm not convinced that 5times was taking the piss.
Passedit, Murphy over O'Rourke? You are on the wind-up surely?
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on June 18, 2008, 01:12:33 PM
Passedit,
thats a very unbiased post
do you actually believe it though
also sent you an email last week, still waiting on reply ;)
Of course. (well maybe not about the buckfast, that's a tight one) ;)
just replied on that info address.
Corn Murphy v MOR = murphy in my book, look what he did to Dooher.
Ah yes but one swallow does not make a summer. Maybe I am biased but I would give MOR the nod.
Quote from: corn02 on June 18, 2008, 01:30:13 PM
Ah yes but one swallow does not make a summer. Maybe I am biased but I would give MOR the nod.
Ah but two swallies = a pint half full. ;D
He done him min the drawn game as well, we're talking current championship form here. And yes you are biased, aren't we all?
Did anyone else notice in the interview after the Cavan game the Armagh players showing off the Club Energize bottles again?
Quote from: southdown on June 18, 2008, 01:33:30 PM
Did anyone else notice in the interview after the Cavan game the Armagh players showing off the Club Energize bottles again?
No, did you?
Yes
Lads for the definitive view on how this match will pan out, I present the following All Ireland odds, at 1pm to-day, from Hughes Bookmakers Portadown
To win All Ireland Senior Football Championship
14/1 Armagh
40/1 Down
An adequate and true reflection on the respective merits of both teams, I would say
Hearty - McVeigh
Mallon - Howard
Bellew - McCartan
Moriarty - Rafferty
Kernan - Carr
O'Rourke - Doyle
McKeever - Murphy
McGrane - Gordon
Toner - Lynch
Vernon - Rodgers
McKeever - Murtagh
O'Rourke - Hughes
McDonnell - Clarke
Clarke - Coulter
Kernan - Sexton
Actual match betting - 8 - 13 Armagh, 7 - 1 the draw, 7 - 4 down.
Agree with THE GAA!
Thats not a true reflection you idiot a true reflection would be the match betting of 8/13 armagh 7/4 down
And then maybe look at the ulster betting of 7/4 Armagh 9/2 Down!
You're running away with your little mind looking at all ireland odds...it's a marathon not a sprint...ever here of the tortoise and the hare :D :D :D :D :D :D
And I meant HEAR not HERE ;D
I think this semi final has the makings of a really good game. When confidence is high in Down they present a very different opposition. Its been a long time since i've seen a hint of optimisim in their county. That said, I was pleased with Armaghs performance, (though Cavan were pretty clueless, so can't read too much into it) & I feel they fuction more as a team than Down.
The difference will be Mc Donnell & Clarke in my opinion.
Mid Field - against CavanToner & Mc Grane were excellent (Down will provide a sterner test though)
Vernon, Moriairty & Tony Kernan played well on debuts, though the Down game will be a couple of notchs up in terms of tempo & intensity. Role on Clones... can't wait ;D
Armagh by 2 poins
I work in Down and you can already feel the buzz. As expected the match is ticket and should be near a full house.
Without sounding patronisging, I think the Downen feel they have a chance where as in the last five or six years they would have expected to have been beaten by us.
berfarmagh, i agree totally with what you have said, and its a v decent first post.
i believe armagh will beat down by at least 4 points, but hope its a real cracker.
welcome to the board Berfarmagh,
Armagh cant afford to miss the chances they missed against Cavan, any chance they get they will need to make sure they score, because you can bet your bottom dollar that Coulter and co will be up for this and if they get as much as a sniff on goal it will be buried, their tails are up after beating tyrone confidence is high and why not? fair play to them, but i am really looking forward to it,
What was the wide count against Cavan, I can't imagine it being high? The goal chances as you say Onion can not be missed again.
not 100% sure of the wides, what i was more concerned about was the goal chances but also the balls dropping short into the keepers hands, it happened at least 2-3 times during the game,
Carr has eight-week ban quashed
Down manager Ross Carr has been cleared to run the sideline after having an eight-week suspension quashed by the Disputes Resolution Authority.
Carr was banned for criticising a referee after his team's National League defeat by Fermanagh in April.
An initial appeal was turned down before he was granted 'interim relief' to be in the Down dugout for the Ulster SFC games against Tyrone.
A further appeal was upheld by the DRA on Wednesday night.
Carr will now be on the sideline for the Ulster SFC semi-final against Armagh on 29 June.
Tickets now on Ticketmaster.ie for Hill terrace and O Duffy terrace behing the goal. Ordered my Hill ticket there now, 18 Euro plus p+p. Cant wait.
Proper order.
...about Carr, not South Down's tickets.
Southdown just tell me your 100% before I order tickets for my family! Bloody eejits dont pay their membership so cant get tickets from club, and now they want to go and be in same area as me. Ive requested for the hill...that is definitely behind the pat mcgrane stand isnt it? Then behind the goals is the duffy terrace? Thanks :)
Quote from: D4S on June 19, 2008, 01:05:20 PM
Southdown just tell me your 100% before I order tickets for my family! Bloody eejits dont pay their membership so cant get tickets from club, and now they want to go and be in same area as me. Ive requested for the hill...that is definitely behind the pat mcgrane stand isnt it? Then behind the goals is the duffy terrace? Thanks :)
Correct.
spot on
Grand job just noticed that ticketmaster had a seating chart too anyway :) Thanks
Down 1-12 Armagh 0-13 is my latest prediction!!!
Could some of the Armagh lads give me directions for Clones please. I'll be travelling from Belfast. Thanks.
I think that alot of the down fans in general will be looking for directions to Clones ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Real1995 on June 19, 2008, 01:23:40 PM
I think that alot of the down fans in general will be looking for directions to Clones ;D ;D ;D
Hahahahahaha very funny!!! As a Down man with a keen interest in all things GAA I will be fine for directions as Ive been to clones quite a few times over the last few years....although in fairness that's cos my womans from tyrone :D
Unlike the typical armagh fan who only attend the glory matches. The Down fan supports their county through the good times and the bad.
As for directions for Clones, I think we remember how to get there, since it was only 2005 when the minors won the All Ireland, and 2003 the last time we were robbed of an Ulster Final! However do the Armagh fans remember how to get there or would you's prefer to get the match moved to Croke Park!
To be honest lazer, we are sick of being in croke park, We would prefer clones, Oh i nearly forgot to say, Its Euro now in the south not Punt ;)
Quote from: Lazer on June 19, 2008, 02:14:40 PM
Unlike the typical armagh fan who only attend the glory matches. The Down fan supports their county through the good times and the bad.
You want to back this up with some evidence buck?
Like I said, I'm a real supporter and have been in the 26counties many times recently for the National League matches, so am well aware what the currency is!
And, the great thing about the match being in Clones, will be the glorious drive home through Armagh, with the Down flags flying to celebrate our win!
Remind me again - how many times have Armagh won the All Ireland?
My moneys on Down, to win by the slightest of margins
Once.
Remind me again Lazer, when was the last time Down beat Armagh in a competitive match, how many All-irelands we won is as relevant as that.
Quote from: Lazer on June 19, 2008, 02:23:13 PM
Like I said, I'm a real supporter and have been in the 26counties many times recently for the National League matches, so am well aware what the currency is!
And, the great thing about the match being in Clones, will be the glorious drive home through Armagh, with the Down flags flying to celebrate our win!
Remind me again - how many times have Armagh won the All Ireland?
Listen lazer, i see you are just going on 2 your 3rd post on the board so you are a wee bit wet behind the ears on the whole thing, you are going to have to relax and get used to the banter,
I'd be hopeful of an armagh win but in reality there won't be the kick of the ball between them. free kicks, refereeing and the bit of luck will all be decisive factors when two teams are well matched.
it's going to be a classic clash of styles with Down's dynamic all out attack running game against Armagh's stoic defence and long deliveries into the full forwarda line.
If armagh can be the physical and technical tacklers of old i think they will win the game. if not, down will cut them to ribbons.
Jay-sus!!!! Laser calm down only a bit of slagging, I think it the punt comment was tongue in cheek! Hilarious I laughed when I read it....I think you may be about 17...too many hormones flying around, I have a 17 year old sister it's like walkin on eggshells when you speak to her :)
Calm down...count to 10 >:( >:( :( :( ??? ??? ??? :-\ :-\ :-\ :) :) :) ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D There see!
Quote from: D4S on June 19, 2008, 02:48:21 PM
Jay-sus!!!! Laser calm down only a bit of slagging, I think it the punt comment was tongue in cheek! Hilarious I laughed when I read it....I think you may be about 17...too many hormones flying around, I have a 17 year old sister it's like walkin on eggshells when you speak to her :)
Calm down...count to 10 >:( >:( :( :( ??? ??? ??? :-\ :-\ :-\ :) :) :) ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D There see!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I wish i was still only 17!!
If i was 17 i probably wouldnt remeber the Down glory days!
Remind me lazer, when were the down glory days?
Quote from: Lazer on June 19, 2008, 02:58:41 PM
I wish i was still only 17!!
If i was 17 i probably wouldnt remeber the Down glory days!
Very good im wrong then :D! Can't wait until sunday week should be a cracker we can definitely do it!! Hope you can see more glory days :)!!!
What about a get together of all the gaaboard guys in the beer garden for a session and chin wag ;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 19, 2008, 03:01:42 PM
Remind me lazer, when were the down glory days?
C'mon Onion Bag we've made our point no need to get niggly ;)!
You know fine well we have had 2 spells of glory days the 60s and the 90s, I remember the 90s they were glorious, we got 2 all irelands then!
Quote from: Uladh on June 19, 2008, 02:43:35 PM
I'd be hopeful of an armagh win but in reality there won't be the kick of the ball between them. free kicks, refereeing and the bit of luck will all be decisive factors when two teams are well matched.
it's going to be a classic clash of styles with Down's dynamic all out attack running game against Armagh's stoic defence and long deliveries into the full forwarda line.
If armagh can be the physical and technical tacklers of old i think they will win the game. if not, down will cut them to ribbons.
One of the things that impressed me most in both the games against Tyrone was the increased physicality with and without the ball right to the end from Down, whether the improvement is enough for arma remains to be seen but the intensity of the two tyrone games will have brought them on a bucketful. This is in stark contrast to the armawans who, whatever way you dress it, strolled through the Cavan game.
I have always been a great admirer of Mc Grane but now with OFT catching up with him I believe he could be the key to a down victory. It's shite or bust time for Dan Gordon, he should take Mc Grane on head to head and try to outfield him and run him into the ground. If i'm wrong and he still has another year in the legs then fair fcuks to him arma will probably win whether Dan takes him on or not, however i don't think arma could cope tactically or mentally with him getting cleaned.**
** I know he was mom v cavan, but i could still look good v those statues.
But our masks would be off....and then we could no longer make random comments that we aren't held accountable for ;D ;D
Would be great craic there will be many of us there, we should all wear a headband tied round our necks in the paragon beer garden as a sign we are gaaboard members...without revealing our identities :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: D4S on June 19, 2008, 03:08:16 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 19, 2008, 03:01:42 PM
Remind me lazer, when were the down glory days?
C'mon Onion Bag we've made our point no need to get niggly ;)!
You know fine well we have had 2 spells of glory days the 60s and the 90s, I remember the 90s they were glorious, we got 2 all irelands then!
D4S i was only tryng to see if lazer would take the bait, I remember the 90s myself, Sam Maguire made an appearance in our school,
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 19, 2008, 02:43:35 PM
I'd be hopeful of an armagh win but in reality there won't be the kick of the ball between them. free kicks, refereeing and the bit of luck will all be decisive factors when two teams are well matched.
it's going to be a classic clash of styles with Down's dynamic all out attack running game against Armagh's stoic defence and long deliveries into the full forwarda line.
If armagh can be the physical and technical tacklers of old i think they will win the game. if not, down will cut them to ribbons.
One of the things that impressed me most in both the games against Tyrone was the increased physicality with and without the ball right to the end from Down, whether the improvement is enough for arma remains to be seen but the intensity of the two tyrone games will have brought them on a bucketful. This is in stark contrast to the armawans who, whatever way you dress it, strolled through the Cavan game.
I have always been a great admirer of Mc Grane but now with OFT catching up with him I believe he could be the key to a down victory. It's shite or bust time for Dan Gordon, he should take Mc Grane on head to head and try to outfield him and run him into the ground. If i'm wrong and he still has another year in the legs then fair fcuks to him arma will probably win whether Dan takes him on or not, however i don't think arma could cope tactically or mentally with him getting cleaned.**
** I know he was mom v cavan, but i could still look good v those statues.
Do not even attempt to go the the paragon beer garden, its full of young uns absolutely plastered and you cant hear yourself think with the rave music, The best one is the Rooster beer garden at the bottom of the town on past the paragon on the right, That paragon is a shite hole,
I know its a shithole! The cul darach beside it is a good wee pub or else packie willies up in the diamond...on a good day there'll be ahuge crowd outside it!
Thankfully I dont remember the 60's glory days! The glory days are here again.
To quote a tyrone supporter after the match on Saturday night,
"you'd think they'd just won the all ireland"
We take our glory anywhere we can get it these days!
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 19, 2008, 03:08:04 PM
What about a get together of all the gaaboard guys in the beer garden for a session and chin wag ;)
Sounds good. I'll bum a lift with Lecale to give directions.
Quote from: Uladh on June 19, 2008, 03:13:32 PM
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 19, 2008, 02:43:35 PM
I'd be hopeful of an armagh win but in reality there won't be the kick of the ball between them. free kicks, refereeing and the bit of luck will all be decisive factors when two teams are well matched.
it's going to be a classic clash of styles with Down's dynamic all out attack running game against Armagh's stoic defence and long deliveries into the full forwarda line.
If armagh can be the physical and technical tacklers of old i think they will win the game. if not, down will cut them to ribbons.
One of the things that impressed me most in both the games against Tyrone was the increased physicality with and without the ball right to the end from Down, whether the improvement is enough for arma remains to be seen but the intensity of the two tyrone games will have brought them on a bucketful. This is in stark contrast to the armawans who, whatever way you dress it, strolled through the Cavan game.
I have always been a great admirer of Mc Grane but now with OFT catching up with him I believe he could be the key to a down victory. It's shite or bust time for Dan Gordon, he should take Mc Grane on head to head and try to outfield him and run him into the ground. If i'm wrong and he still has another year in the legs then fair fcuks to him arma will probably win whether Dan takes him on or not, however i don't think arma could cope tactically or mentally with him getting cleaned.**
** I know he was mom v cavan, but i could still look good v those statues.
I take it you're keeping that there for posterity so I can't edit away my rashness uladh. :)
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 03:08:51 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 19, 2008, 02:43:35 PM
I'd be hopeful of an armagh win but in reality there won't be the kick of the ball between them. free kicks, refereeing and the bit of luck will all be decisive factors when two teams are well matched.
it's going to be a classic clash of styles with Down's dynamic all out attack running game against Armagh's stoic defence and long deliveries into the full forwarda line.
If armagh can be the physical and technical tacklers of old i think they will win the game. if not, down will cut them to ribbons.
One of the things that impressed me most in both the games against Tyrone was the increased physicality with and without the ball right to the end from Down, whether the improvement is enough for arma remains to be seen but the intensity of the two tyrone games will have brought them on a bucketful. This is in stark contrast to the armawans who, whatever way you dress it, strolled through the Cavan game.
I have always been a great admirer of Mc Grane but now with OFT catching up with him I believe he could be the key to a down victory. It's shite or bust time for Dan Gordon, he should take Mc Grane on head to head and try to outfield him and run him into the ground. If i'm wrong and he still has another year in the legs then fair fcuks to him arma will probably win whether Dan takes him on or not, however i don't think arma could cope tactically or mentally with him getting cleaned.**
** I know he was mom v cavan, but i could still look good v those statues.
McGrane was brutal and 100% cleaned out by Fennell in the Dublin league game, cant remember what way that game finished up ???
QuoteMcGrane was brutal and 100% cleaned out by Fennell in the Dublin league game, cant remember what way that game finished up Huh
I wasn't at that game benny, so i'm struggling with the mental image of fennel tearing towards goal with Mc Grane in his wake.
If Down beat arma decisively at midfield they'll beat them full stop as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Armagh will bate that shower by four to five points, end of.
Quote from: stew on June 19, 2008, 05:57:44 PM
Armagh will bate that shower by four to five points, end of.
We all know that Stew but it's still nice to string them along in the lead up to the game. We want to make sure loads of them turn up so we can watch them headin for the exits 15 minutes before the end.
As some wag said in 1999 as the Down fans were leaving early - "Lock the feckin gates and make them suffer!"
Quote from: SouthArmaghBandit on June 19, 2008, 06:05:28 PM
Quote from: stew on June 19, 2008, 05:57:44 PM
Armagh will bate that shower by four to five points, end of.
We all know that Stew but it's still nice to string them along in the lead up to the game. We want to make sure loads of them turn up so we can watch them headin for the exits 15 minutes before the end.
As some wag said in 1999 as the Down fans were leaving early - "Lock the feckin gates and make them suffer!"
Keep whistling past the graveyard lads.
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
QuoteMcGrane was brutal and 100% cleaned out by Fennell in the Dublin league game, cant remember what way that game finished up Huh
I wasn't at that game benny, so i'm struggling with the mental image of fennel tearing towards goal with Mc Grane in his wake. If Down beat arma decisively at midfield they'll beat them full stop as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Midfield is not the be all and end all, Tyrone won 2 All-Irelands without one.
Quote from: stew on June 19, 2008, 05:57:44 PM
Armagh will bate that shower by four to five points, end of.
Fcukit Stew...I hope it's that close ;) ;)
As some wag said in 1999 as the Down fans were leaving early - "Lock the feckin gates and make them suffer!"
As most things from armagh, hardly original as this staement was coined many years before by Cork. How many times up to that could the same sentiment have been reversed!!
Hopefully this match will be just as intense and exciting as both Down V Tyrone matches, hopefully with less decisions against us with a few minutes to go (i.e. soft free given against i think it was paul mccomiskey resulting in the equalising score to push to extra time). Armagh did look good against Cavan but its hard to judge with Cavan not being great opposition, but Armagh could still have been better. However should be a good match, hopefully the result will go our way...I really do think Down have the hunger to win they showed it against Tyrone that they will never give up!! ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on June 19, 2008, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
QuoteMcGrane was brutal and 100% cleaned out by Fennell in the Dublin league game, cant remember what way that game finished up Huh
I wasn't at that game benny, so i'm struggling with the mental image of fennel tearing towards goal with Mc Grane in his wake. If Down beat arma decisively at midfield they'll beat them full stop as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Midfield is not the be all and end all, Tyrone won 2 All-Irelands without one.
I know that Benny, but Tyrone were always set up that way, down won the midfield battle decisively in both games yet were fortunate enough to win in the end. Midfield is more important to both Down and Arma as they both have vulnerable backlines to protect and forward lines who thrive on quick ball. I just think that if Dan wins plenty of ball on Mc Grane and takes him on a tour of Clones when we have it, it could be decisive. Then again i could be talking bollox. we'll know on sunday week
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Now your surely on the wind-up?
I think this is Down's game to lose. They have been quietly building for a number of years and have a solid team. They may not be the most stylish of Down teams but they have very few weak links. If Armagh can more than break even in the middle I think the FF line will have enough to win the game, but I don't know if McGrane can have as good a game again. Lets face it Cavan midfield were shocking and Gordon will pose a very much improved threat. Any team that subs a midfielder and then throws him back on can only be weak there.
As much as it pains me I think Down will shade midfield and win by a Coulter goal :(
all im hoping for is a good game, would like to see down win, at least they go out to play football something armagh have never done
Don't be le sulk!
Sadly I think that the Armagh defence might be shown up against Down - the odd time Cavan ran at Armagh they caused problems.
Btw will McCumiskey start?
Listen lads - Armagh has been there, done that and got the T-Shirt, its up to Down to turn up and put it up to Armagh. WHich I think they will. BTW don't worry about Paul Mc Grane, hes well fit for Dan Gordon. Mc Granes up there with Cavanagh, O Se & WHelan as one of the best mid fielders of his generation.
Looks like theres huge interest in the game, which should make for a class day in clones...
Bring it on ;D
Down have been there and worn the tshirt as well mate! Armagh are in transition still a few old faces with a blend of youth thrown in like young toner. Many of our boys have tasted success also as minor all ireland winners in 1999 and 2005 so no need to patronise my friend ;)
We expecting a full house?
Armagh 15k
Down 14k
Tyrone 5/600
Cavan 3/400
nuetrals 1k
Just scraping 30k or so.
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 08:59:05 AM
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Now your surely on the wind-up?
corn there's serious question marks over every armawan from MF back and the Cavan match didn't resolve any of them. Now for a bit of fun imagine the arma team is a garage and i'm round kicking tyres, heres my take on the back nine.
Hearty - fck me where do you start, might get something for scrap, i'd take the other one over there though.
Mallon - hasn't been on the road much recently has it?
Bellew -up on blocks for a year and still a lot of miles on the clock
Moriarty - hmmm, acceleration isn't great is it? has it been properly road tested yet?
Kernan - No reverse gear
O'Rourke - Lot of miles on the clock, can it still get into fifth?
McKeever - Great engine, likely to end up in the ditch though
McGrane - a classic but how would it stand up against one of those new sporty models?
Toner - hasnt been out of second yet, give it a good spin till we see.
armagh have one the strongest backline's in ulster if not the best. Theres three allstars in there. they'l be well capable of handling downs forwards. what about downs backline do you think they'l cope with the deadly duo???
What about the fowards passedit?
Vernon - New motor on the forecourt, runs smoothly albeit with some small technical cliches
McKeever - a bit unreliable, sometimes load bearing can be a problem, but when is running well is delightful to enjoy
Kernan - a slow mover at the start as was carrying a heavy weight. Has shed some baggage and now developing into a nice runner with lots of style and panache
O'Rourke - a bit like an army jeep, not the easiest on the eye but does a lot of dirty jobs
McDonnell - the Ferrari of the forward line, quick, stylish, flashy but has substance behind the glitz.
Clarke - "O Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz" - strong, fast, classy and reliable
RE D4S:
My are'nt we touchy. Down have not been there, get off your high horse... Micky Linden & the Blaneys of this world are long gone & that was when you last contested anything. Minor titles mean feck all, we are talking senior champioship football here. The Armagh team is littered with Club & inter county honours.
Its good to see you down folk come out of the shadows again, I missed your arrogance :o One win does'nt mean you are back! Enjoy the qualifiers
These are hardly words of wisdom but was it not Ricey that won the game for Down? I don't understand why so much is being made about a Down team that has done nothing for the last 10 years.
Beating Tyrone, in my opinion is nothing this year, they are severly underperforming - Laois beat them a couple of years ago when Tyrone were in the same position, everyone lauded Laois's return they they got mauled by Mayo!!
On any given day things can go a teams way so I'm not saying that Down will be making up the numbers next week, I just think they should manage they're own expectations - Armagh have been dominating Ulster for nearly a decade, Down have a bit of fizz about themselves but it's more than likely that Armaghs experience and apathy to what's going on outside of the pitch will secure a win.
I hope it's a good game, I think Down will throw caution to the wind (and should do) and play the way Fermanagh did in 2004.
Quote from: passedit on June 20, 2008, 11:31:33 AM
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 08:59:05 AM
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 04:44:08 PM
as arma's backline is as dodgy as down's
Now your surely on the wind-up?
corn there's serious question marks over every armawan from MF back and the Cavan match didn't resolve any of them. Now for a bit of fun imagine the arma team is a garage and i'm round kicking tyres, heres my take on the back nine.
Hearty - fck me where do you start, might get something for scrap, i'd take the other one over there though.
Mallon - hasn't been on the road much recently has it?
Bellew -up on blocks for a year and still a lot of miles on the clock
Moriarty - hmmm, acceleration isn't great is it? has it been properly road tested yet?
Kernan - No reverse gear
O'Rourke - Lot of miles on the clock, can it still get into fifth?
McKeever - Great engine, likely to end up in the ditch though
McGrane - a classic but how would it stand up against one of those new sporty models?
Toner - hasnt been out of second yet, give it a good spin till we see.
You can sum up that Down team with (i hope im still under warranty, will some of ye lads give me a push)
Quote from: Take Your Points on June 19, 2008, 08:47:39 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on June 19, 2008, 01:20:52 PM
Could some of the Armagh lads give me directions for Clones please. I'll be travelling from Belfast. Thanks.
Lecale, your best bet is to take the M1 to Dungannon, then on to Ballygawley, up to Fivemiletown, Brookeborough, Lisnaskea, Newtownbutler,Clones. A bit longer than through Armagh and Monaghan but it avoids all of the traffic from Armagh and Down and without the traffic the AA reckons it should take only 20 minutes more.
At Broadway Roundabout take the 2nd exit onto the M1 (signposted The West, Dublin, Craigavon) M1 1.53
37.57 Continue forward onto the A4 (signposted Enniskillen, Omagh) A4 39.10
2.72 At roundabout take the 2nd exit onto Woodlough Road - A4 A4 41.82
10.68 At Ballygawley Roundabout take the 1st exit onto Annaghilla Road - A4 A4 52.50
4.60 Continue forward onto Annaghilla Road - A4. Entering Augher A4 57.10
1.44 Continue forward onto Crossowen Road - A4. Entering Clogher A4 58.54
6.89 Continue forward onto Ballagh Road - A4. Entering Fivemiletown A4 65.43
0.10 Arrive at Fivemiletown,Dungannon A4 65.53
- Section time 1:17, Total time 1:17 - -
0.00 Start out at Fivemiletown,Dungannon A4 65.53
8.64 Branch left, then merge onto Brookeborough Road Brookeborough Road 74.16
0.22 Continue forward onto Brookeborough Road. Entering Maguiresbridge Brookeborough Road 74.38
0.31 Turn left onto Lisnagole Road - A34 A34 74.69
2.38 Continue forward onto Lisnagole Road - A34. Entering Lisnaskea A34 77.07
0.07 At roundabout take the 2nd exit onto Lisnagole Road - A34 A34 77.14
0.69 Continue forward onto Main Street - B127 B127 77.83
0.25 Continue forward onto Moorlough Road - A34 A34 78.08
5.59 Continue forward onto High Street - A34. Entering Newtownbutler A34 83.67
4.77 Continue forward onto Newtownbutler Road (You are entering the Republic of Ireland) Newtownbutler Road 88.45
0.32 Continue forward onto Newtownbutler Road. Entering Clones Newtownbutler Road 88.76
0.65 Bear left onto Fermanagh Street Fermanagh Street 89.41
0.03 Turn left onto Lower Fermanagh Street Lower Fermanagh Street 89.44
0.06 Turn right onto Roslea Road Roslea Road 89.49
0.09 Arrive at Clones,Monaghan Unclassified 89.59
TYP, there is a shorter route from Fivemiletown, but it can be daunding as it takes you over the hills to the south of Fivemiletown.
take a left when going through the town, on the one way street shortly before the roundabout on the far side of the town.
follow this road straight until you come right into Clones.
the road to travel can be narrow and windy, with a few staggered crossroads, but basically it is one straight road.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=54.314921,-7.279129&spn=0.284783,0.598755&z=11 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=54.314921,-7.279129&spn=0.284783,0.598755&z=11)
click this link and just zoom in. Clones is at the bottom where the Orange road joins the green one right at the bottom of the screen.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on June 20, 2008, 12:40:22 PM
RE D4S:
My are'nt we touchy. Down have not been there, get off your high horse... Micky Linden & the Blaneys of this world are long gone & that was when you last contested anything. Minor titles mean feck all, we are talking senior champioship football here. The Armagh team is littered with Club & inter county honours.
Its good to see you down folk come out of the shadows again, I missed your arrogance :o One win does'nt mean you are back! Enjoy the qualifiers
Jaysus BerfArmagh you call me touchy :D What I said was intended to also be taken with a pinch of salt I said you were patronising! Yes we haven't anything to shout about in recent years regards our senior team, but I for one have attended as many mckenna cup and national league games in the past few seasons as I could possibly get to, and knew that with a bit of belief this current down setup could progress! Key word is
progress That is all we want in Down we know we are no worldbeaters, but at least we are competing now and showing a bit of pride, passion and belief...So I am happy with that for now, if we're beaten next week and play the shirts off our backs like we did against tyrone I'll be disappointed yet satisfied that things are on the up as we now have a team willing to fight! Cya in CLones for a pint after the match Down 1-12 Armagh 0-13 ;) Take it easy, good luck, slán slán!
"I don't understand why so much is being made about a Down team that has done nothing for the last 10 years."
Did you even watch the match last week and the week before?? The Down team have a fighting spirit! They believe thay can do it, their fans believe thay can do it.
And as for the last ten years, we've made a lot of progress in the last few years, including winning the McKenna cup this year!
Ross Carr and DJ Kane deserve a lot of credit for what they've done with the Down team.
why do you think i stopped at nine BC? ;)
No arguement about the last three, but questions enough about the first three.
Both teams will know a whole lot more about themselves after this game, but Down have already had a thorough road testing agin Tyrone, Armagh haven't really bin outta the garage yet.
Before you negative people come back and say 'Who cares about the McKenna Cup!!'
Well if it was good enough for Mickey Harte and Tyrone....then it's good enough for us :)
It's a stepping stone hopefully to move on to something better...and if it instills confidence and belief in players then it can only be a good thing!
Quote from: Lazer on June 20, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
Did you even watch the match last week and the week before?? The Down team have a fighting spirit! They believe thay can do it, their fans believe thay can do it.
Kilkenny footballers might have a fighting spirit too.
Very good!! They probably do but I don't think Kilkenny footballers would beat Tyrone though :)
Fair enough D4S.
Actually one pace I think Down do have an advantage over Armagh is on the sideline (I have been very impressed with DJ & Ross carrs decision making so far) Mc DOnnell for me is still very much untested...
Quote from: BerfArmagh on June 20, 2008, 01:31:58 PM
Fair enough D4S.
Actually one pace I think Down do have an advantage over Armagh is on the sideline (I have been very impressed with DJ & Ross carrs decision making so far) Mc DOnnell for me is still very much untested...
Our managment have done well with their decisionmaking so far but I wonder will we ever have the 2 on the sideline at the 1 time!!
McDonnell is a good successor to Big Joe and if you beat us next sunday I would strongly tip armagh to go very far in this years championship as you will improve with each game!
Glad we've cleared the air BerfArmagh and we can be friends ;)
Quote from: D4S on June 20, 2008, 01:22:36 PM
Very good!! They probably do but I don't think Kilkenny footballers would beat Tyrone though :)
They'd probably give that half-a-Tyrone team you beat a run ok I'd imagine.
That half a Tyrone team couldnt have become bad overnite they are the reigning ulster champions. They fought to the final whistle, you obviously were at neither game, if you had of been you would have seen that there is plenty left in that team yet! For the record we were also short our best defender (which we cant afford to be missing) and DJ Kane's inspirational half time teamtalks ;D Evens out!!!!
I was at the first game and there is no way you can say the forward line was in the same league as the Tyrone teams of 05 and 03.
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 02:59:39 PM
I was at the first game and there is no way you can say the forward line was in the same league as the Tyrone teams of 05 and 03.
No O'Neill and the rest are on the downward slope
No O'Neill, Canavan or Mulligan. A McGuigan who is nowhere near his best (not his fault) and Dooher who got showed up by a poor mans Marty O'Rourke.
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 03:13:47 PM
Dooher who got showed up by a poor mans Marty O'Rourke.
This is actually a topic I brought up at home. I think MOR picks up more breaking ball than any one I've ever seen, & he never loses possession through a tackle, however Dooher, in my opinion, would have better feet, & so is able to score more & pick out better passes.
In any case... I know who I'd rather in my team this year!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 20, 2008, 03:20:15 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 03:13:47 PM
Dooher who got showed up by a poor mans Marty O'Rourke.
This is actually a topic I brought up at home. I think MOR picks up more breaking ball than any one I've ever seen, & he never loses possession through a tackle, however Dooher, in my opinion, would have better feet, & so is able to score more & pick out better passes.
In any case... I know who I'd rather in my team this year!
Goats man don't let yourself down, there is only one winner and thats Dooher. MOR couldn't lace his boots (obviously when fully fit) I know what you're saying about O Rourke and it's true but skill wise and for getting you scores MOR is not in Doohers league.
In their peak or at present? At present it is a no-brainer.
Im not saying the current team is in the same league of 2003 or 2005, they are a team in transition! Theyve lost canavan and oneill to retirement,there's nothing they can do about that (unless o'neill changes his mind of his own accord) they have a few injuries....that doesnt mean we only beat half a tyrone team...Tyrone are not as strong as they were but you cant fault their workrate and endeavour in the 2 games against us at all.
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 03:25:18 PM
In their peak or at present? At present it is a no-brainer.
Agreed!
Stats from Armagh v Cavan showed MOR won 3 break balls, SK won 2 and McKeever (I think) won 3.
Think McKeever had two. Not bad from O Rourke in a game with little break ball, but I would expect the figure to be a lot higher against Down.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 20, 2008, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 20, 2008, 03:25:18 PM
In their peak or at present? At present it is a no-brainer.
Agreed!
Well thats why i put in brackets if fully fit, Dooher def looks of the pace and it doesn't take Einstien to work out that he is not over his latest setback. I prob jumped the gun a we bit there but if both fully fit and injury free i'd pick Dooher
Yeah I would pick Dooher at his peak too. The man is unreal in full flow, a sight we will never see again.
I really believe that this game is too close to call. If I were a betting man (which I'm not!) I would suggest a draw. It really is to hard to call IMO.
Quote from: Aristotle Flynn on June 20, 2008, 07:38:53 PM
I really believe that this game is too close to call. If I were a betting man (which I'm not!) I would suggest a draw. It really is to hard to call IMO.
a battle hardend down team should win the midfield battle and run at an armagh team that keeps men standin infront of ther full back line. Mournemen through to ulster final
Dodgy, you've been listening to Martin McHugh for too long. They keep A O'Rourke in front of the FB line, could you name me a team that don't play a sweeper in front of the FB line? Seanie Johnstone only started to do damage once he came out to the HF line as he could get no change out of Andy Mallon who is one of the top CBs in the country. My concern is that there is no obvious match up for Francie (like McCabe was).
Midfield will be an important battle with Down supporters concentrating on McGrane, Kieran Toner will have a big say on proceedings too.
Francie will be moving nowhere, Ard Mhacha will play the system and let down try and crack it. Francie mightn have the pace but he is rarely exposed 1 on 1 as the defensive unit around him offer such protection. Downs only hope i believe is to take Coulter out the field and Down to attack Armagh at speed to try and create the overlap.
Cant see there being as many clean catches as previous weeks so its down to winning the dirty ball. If Armagh get enough of this and put in to Clarke and Mc Donnell, Armagh should prevail.
Quote from: mackers on June 20, 2008, 10:02:58 PM
Dodgy, you've been listening to Martin McHugh for too long. They keep A O'Rourke in front of the FB line, could you name me a team that don't play a sweeper in front of the FB line? Seanie Johnstone only started to do damage once he came out to the HF line as he could get no change out of Andy Mallon who is one of the top CBs in the country. My concern is that there is no obvious match up for Francie (like McCabe was).
Midfield will be an important battle with Down supporters concentrating on McGrane, Kieran Toner will have a big say on proceedings too.
i would make a point of not listening to martin mc hugh. the useless balls cavan hit in to their full forward line that dropped short to be picked up by the sweeper was ridiculous, and you can be sure it wont happen with down. theyll run at armagh, draw a few frees, easily slotted over by carr/doyle
Whoever comes out on top between McGrane and Gordon will decide who wins this game. McGrane over the last 10 years has been the second best midfielder in the country to Darragh O'Se, he put on a master class against Cavan (albeit not the toughest game he ever had) and as for Dan Gordon in my opinion has been Downs best player the last few years.
There is no doubt that midfield will be important but it will not decide the game on it's own. Tyrone won no ball yet still should have beat down only for ricey to give benny an early christmas present. I have no doubt that D Hughes and co will give the Armagh defence plenty to think about but on the balance I still think Armagh have too much for down. Armagh by3/4 pts
I just think there is no point in Down turning up to face a county with such an impressive record of success over the life of the association.
They are just too powerful all over the field, on the terraces and on message boards
Scentofsam, it took you nine pages to catch on to that! ;)
I just love the Down accusations of Armagh arrogance, even some of the Down posters' names make me laugh, ye beat a tired Tyrone team and now we have scentofsam, D4S and a few others!! Brilliant!!
Quote from: mackers on June 21, 2008, 01:23:50 PM
Scentofsam, it took you nine pages to catch on to that! ;)
I just love the Down accusations of Armagh arrogance, even some of the Down posters' names make me laugh, ye beat a tired Tyrone team and now we have scentofsam, D4S and a few others!! Brilliant!!
i think you'll find these boys were member before the tyrone game. Down by 4!
I am actually a Derry Man living in Down
That makes it worse!! They have you brainwashed!!
If the match was decided on paper, Armagh would walk it. However, it is not decided on paper, and as usual these days, it will probably be decided by the referee. If Armagh can get the ball into their full forward line, they have the potential to destroy Down. If Down can get the ball into their full forward line, they do NOT have the potential to destroy Armagh, imho.
I was at both Down v Tyrone games, and especially last Saturday night I was hearing Benny this and Benny that, when really Liam Doyle was the man who was keeping Down in the game. Only for the fluke goal handed to Coulter on a plate, he would have had an extremely average game.
If both teams play to their potential, Armagh will win, but it is all to play for.
The arrogance from Armagh is unreal. They have been as poor as Down in the last couple of years. Armagh are a team on their knees hoping for one last howray.
Yes Down are a division 3 team, Armagh should have no difficulty in winning if league form is to be believed.
The thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title. The fear of the Red and Black tide swelling will provide many sleepless nights in the orange county this next week.
Down have nothing to lose.
An Dun abu.
QuoteThe thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title. The fear of the Red and Black tide swelling will provide many sleepless nights in the orange county this next week.
Down have nothing to lose.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ::)
Red Army.
That has to be the most arrogant post in quite a while. Down had a great victory against Tyrone but one swallow doesn't make a summer. They may well beat Armagh but I still think they are still a couple short of being All Ireland contenders. To get that far they would need a lot of luck with injurys - similar to 1991 when they could play the same team nearly the whole way through. Also if Armagh have been as poor as down in the last two years how is it that they won Ulster two years ago?
As for next Sunday I think it will be close. My hope for Armagh is that they have more options on the bench than for a number of years eg Donaghy and McNulty in defence, O'Neill, Courtney and Swift for midfield and McConville, Kernan and Mallon in the forward line. If things are going wrong we can change things. Can Down? Have they as many options? I do not know. I will be going with hope rather than confidence!
Quote from: Red Army on June 21, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
The arrogance from Armagh is unreal. They have been as poor as Down in the last couple of years. Armagh are a team on their knees hoping for one last howray.
Yes Down are a division 3 team, Armagh should have no difficulty in winning if league form is to be believed.
The thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title. The fear of the Red and Black tide swelling will provide many sleepless nights in the orange county this next week.
Down have nothing to lose.
An Dun abu.
:D :D
You must be having a laugh
Armagh as poor as Down in the last couple of years ???
Must be a WUM
Had a feeling that would stir the old pot again ;D. Realistically, cant wait until next sunday, i hope it has the makings of a classic in the same way as the 2 tyrone games.
My worry is Downs inexperience, i just hope we perform to our capabilities. Hope the ref doesnt kill the game. anyone know who it is yet.
The Wexford ref gave Derry a very soft penalty tonight which could have killed the game.
This tie has been a while in the coming.
Jaysus lads....this could be the easiest Ulster of the lot
Cavan, Down and Fermanagh - Carlsberg dont do Ulster Championships, but if they did....... ;)
Quote from: Red Army on June 21, 2008, 06:40:31 PM
Had a feeling that would stir the old pot again ;D. Realistically, cant wait until next sunday, i hope it has the makings of a classic in the same way as the 2 tyrone games.
My worry is Downs inexperience, i just hope we perform to our capabilities. Hope the ref doesnt kill the game. anyone know who it is yet.
The Wexford ref gave Derry a very soft penalty tonight which could have killed the game.
This tie has been a while in the coming.
inexperience wont be much of a problem given the two battles against tyrone this month
I predict an Arma cakewalk.
Their defense will stifle anything the Down attack can produce and their classy forwards will have a field day against a dodgy Down defense.
Our only hope is for mercy and that the officials open the gates early so we can leave before the suffering gets too much.
Quote from: Yes I Would on June 21, 2008, 04:35:06 PM
That makes it worse!! They have you brainwashed!!
A nicer place to live you couldn't find anywhere. The local club here in Downpatrick are a fantastic group of people. no brainwashing, just genuinely decent people
Throw Ball, every successful All Ireland team has to cope with injuries. Down went into the 1991 championship with a first choice midfield of Ambrose Rogers and Liam Austin. Ambrose was injured before the first round, and missed the entire Ulster championship. Big Austin took a knock against Derry in the drawn semi final which meant that he was unavailable for both the replay and the Ulster final. Both were only fit for the bench in the AI semi and final. Given that we had otherwise a generally very young side, and had not won a provincial title in the previous ten years, those were major losses. We were outsiders in every game we played that summer, so Sam came home strictly on merit.
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 21, 2008, 09:42:22 PM
I predict an Arma cakewalk.
Their defense will stifle anything the Down attack can produce and their classy forwards will have a field day against a dodgy Down defense.
Our only hope is for mercy and that the officials open the gates early so we can leave before the suffering gets too much.
Got to agree, dont even think I will venture to Clones, sure you see more on the telly. Armagh by 10 points.
armagh don't hammer teams its always a tight enough game i think armagh will win by five points and will control the game.
Do the trains still run to Clones, its that long from we had a day out in Clones i cannot remember.
Does 'red and black army ' just enjoy writing crap to try & get his number of posts of the mark?Having joined yesterday he has so far contributed 4 posts containing the biggest load of bullshit, maybe the hoganstand site has crashed & thats why this board now has the pleasure of his company ;D
Mourne Rover. I was not saying the 1991 team were not worth their All Ireland. After they limped past Armagh in the Marshes I cheered them on . My point was that I do not remember them using more than 18 or 19 players that year. To go far this year I believe they will have to do something similar. By 1994 I thought they were a better team. Besides I have always believed that Down had that admirable ability of getting the best out of the players they had. For Armagh's sake I hope they have lost this!
There can be little doubting that the mourne county have produced some of the finest teams to come out of the province over the last 60 years.............. their 5 All Ieland Senior titles have stood the test of time.
However since 1994 they have not lifted an ulster title, Embarrassed by the brilliance of the oisin McConville and Diarmuid Marsden double Act in 1999 and then slaughtered in a replay by eventual All Ireland Champions Tyrone in 2003.
Apparently a new breed has emerged in 2008.......... a team that wont lie down as they have already shown twice this summer, Once in Omagh and Once Newry............... However it would be fickle to assume the glory days have returned on such events................ Like Derry this group of players have found expectation heavy on their sholders............. werent we told that Derry had turned the corner after showing such fighting qualities to firstly sink kerry after trailling heavily in the first half and then after an indifferent first half showing against donegal they turned on the power to see the opposition off in the second half. The Derry we had grown acustomed to had turned it around...... or so we thought.
Fermangah out thought, outbattled. outplayed and manged to beat the same derry team who had been talked up as potential all ireland champions.
Similarities between Down and Derry could and in all probability will continue on sunday.............. Expect the Arrogance of the down support to leave clones next week with their tail between their legs.............. have they encountered a forward line with the understanding, predatorial instincts and power of McDonnell and Clarke??? .......... Whilst Dan Godon is on top of his game at this moment......... the midfield battle is not the forgone conclusion most are assuming......... McGrane will be ably assisted by Toner in this sector.......... The defense includes 4 All Stars and thats not to mention the colossus that is Ciaran McKeever ......... so any notion that Down forwards will rack up a fantasy tally is certainly wide of the mark...................... but crucially This is an Armagh team playing without the pressure of previous years and that for me spells trouble for Down.
Armagh to pull away in the last ten minutes in what should be an absorbing contest
Quote from: ric flair on June 22, 2008, 08:19:59 PM
The defense includes 4 All Stars
I don't think that's right?
Anyone know who the referee will be? The forecasted bad weather for next weekend will also be a big factor.
Quote from: mackers on June 21, 2008, 01:23:50 PM
Scentofsam, it took you nine pages to catch on to that! ;)
I just love the Down accusations of Armagh arrogance, even some of the Down posters' names make me laugh, ye beat a tired Tyrone team and now we have scentofsam, D4S and a few others!! Brilliant!!
Just looged on after a hectic weekend to see this comment! Come on mackers how can you single down supporters out and me in particular for this sort of name on this board :D Everyone's at it, it doesnt mean I think we're going to win an allireland this year it's a bit of craic and major positive thinkin :D Also for the record I joined this board BEFORE we beat Tyrone. See you in clones big guy :P
Its great to see the armagh confidence! there is a sense of dejavu. tyrone fans were very confident 3 weeks ago , derry fans were confident til saturday evening. Down fans have a fear of being over confident this year because of years of failure. It was very evident during the game in newry last week as it took the goal to get the crowd believing. I expect an electric atmosphere this wknd in clones and I also expect to see this down team live up to its potential. Down will not be worried about the armagh gameplan, why would we , we have already beaten the top team in ulster.
Throw Ball, your point was not about the quality of the 91 Down team but that they were lucky with injuries. The long-term loss of key players like Ambrose Rogers and Liam Austin that summer suggests otherwise. In the famous drawn game against Derry, Greg Blaney was also unluckily sent off at a crucial stage. You have to deal with these things if you want to win an all Ireland.
QuoteIts great to see the armagh confidence!
Stiff Breeze.....if any team goes into a Championship game with no confidence, then they should not be there. Of course Armagh will be confident, why wouldn't they? There is a difference between confidence and complacency, and I do not expect Armagh to be complacent. Armagh learned their lesson about complacency a few years back against Fermanagh in the Q/Final.
who sadthey weather wood ne realy bad next week end? Its 2 far away 2 no. It wont matter anyway cause theres only 1 winner in this game. Long time sinse Armagh an Down played in the champioship an im lookin forward 2 it so i am.
Ar we all meetin up for a pint b4 the game??? it wood be grate to hav a meetin up
I see this game as a fascinating battle between the old and the the new rich. Between Good and evil and between fine silk threads and a stolen jumper. Armagh are in dreamland - the country is talking about them, which is alll they wanted anyway, and they have had to play very little football to have this reputation. Armagh will be very concious that they have now won an awful lot of Ulster titles and yet have consistently failed to get it up on the big occasion.
Put this into context - Armagh have won 6 of the last 9 ulsters, have appeared in 2 all Irelands and one of them they took the back door route, Deep in their psychie will be the knowledge that Armagh footballers have an underachieveing gene in their make up - and that cant be nice. Armagh will be happy enough to plod away through the back door after this weekend where a meeting with Tyrone awaits them.
Down by 5
Quote from: feetofflames on June 23, 2008, 10:26:04 AM
I see this game as a fascinating battle between the old and the the new rich. Between Good and evil and between fine silk threads and a stolen jumper. Armagh are in dreamland - the country is talking about them, which is alll they wanted anyway, and they have had to play very little football to have this reputation. Armagh will be very concious that they have now won an awful lot of Ulster titles and yet have consistently failed to get it up on the big occasion.
Put this into context - Armagh have won 6 of the last 9 ulsters, have appeared in 2 all Irelands and one of them they took the back door route, Deep in their psychie will be the knowledge that Armagh footballers have an underachieveing gene in their make up - and that cant be nice. Armagh will be happy enough to plod away through the back door after this weekend where a meeting with Tyrone awaits them.
Down by 5
you think armagh would be happy enough to loose on sunday???????
Should Coles ban not run out on Sunday?
This thread is virtually unreadable with all the sh1te on it.
I was just asking about Cole's ban.....
General observation, not intended for you.
I know was only joking. Maybe their shoulkd be a serious discussion thread and a banter thread?
Is it true whoever gets knocked out on sunday will be in the same qualifier draw along with the teams that got knocked out in the last round. If so thats rediculous, whats the point in getting to the semi if your still only at the same level as Longford and Roscommon.
So by that, we could see Down v Tyrone or Armagh v Cavan again.
The GAA havent been clear on this.
Aidan O'Rourke 02
Andy Mallon 05
Francie Bellew 03
Aaron K 05 Young player of the year
Quote from: PatDaly on June 22, 2008, 09:49:47 PM
Anyone know who the referee will be?
Joe McQuillan, An Cabhán
young poty is not an all-star.
Is Enda not an all-star of the past?
Did not start against Cavan, but should be back to full fitness and pushing I would imagine.
QuoteDid not start against Cavan, but should be back to full fitness and pushing I would imagine.
Couldn't see Enda starting Corn. McDonnell hasn't given me a go at all since he gave away the free that lost the Monaghan match. If there's to be a change in the full back line, Donaghy's more likely to come in. I'd say he'll start the same 3 though. In fact I think he'll start the exact same XV though Paddy McKeever would be very lucky to get a start.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 23, 2008, 07:15:41 PM
. McDonnell hasn't given me a go at all since he gave away the free that lost the Monaghan match.
:o
Jaysus TAM, you kept that well hidden over the years, all those reports on St Pats were a good cover. ;)
I agree with you though, the back 3 won't be touched with only Paddy McKeever under threat for his place and Donaghy has moved up the pecking order ahead of Enda, the foul fest in Clones against Monaghan would appear to have been the last straw.
Is Oisin going to be back on the panel for Sunday? He'd love to come against the Down men!
Red Army, it's been announced that, of all the teams in the qualifiers, only the beaten provincial finalists are exempt from the first round. It includes 16 teams, in an open draw. The surviving eight teams then go into another open draw for the second round, and the four left standing then take on the four beaten provincial finalists in the third and last round.
Is Oisin going to be back on the panel for Sunday? He'd love to come against the Down men!
[/quote]
Sorry, meant to say he'd love to come IN against the Down men! :o
Heads up Francie.
Rumour has it some Mayobridge men will be looking to right the wrongs of an Ulster Club championship from a few years ago.
Down are the make weights and an Arma cakewalk is written all over this one. The Arma defense will stifle anything the Down attack can produce and their classy forwards will have a field day against a very dodgy Down defense.
Our only hope is for mercy and that the gate men open the gates early so we can leave before the suffering gets too much. Can't understand why I have bought a ticket.
Never mind Onionbag, you will have plenty of time to follow Glenavon after Sunday, it will suit you better as you obviously no little about Gaelic Football
Pangur----I think you'll find that ITOB is jesting.
Oops, should have spotted that, irony is lost on me, thanks Wobbler, apologies ITOB
Quote from: Orior on June 23, 2008, 09:44:22 PM
Heads up Francie.
Rumour has it some Mayobridge men will be looking to right the wrongs of an Ulster Club championship from a few years ago.
That will cause many sleepless nights in cross between now and match ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A wee word to all the Down fans.....
Be sure to get your half time ice creams early. This will save you having to try and eat and walk at the same time as you leave the ground just after half time as you did at the 1999 Ulster Final :D :D :D :D
QuotePosted on: Today at 09:07:06 PMPosted by: mackers
Insert Quote
Jaysus TAM, you kept that well hidden over the years, all those reports on St Pats were a good cover.
I agree with you though, the back 3 won't be touched with only Paddy McKeever under threat for his place and Donaghy has moved up the pecking order ahead of Enda, the foul fest in Clones against Monaghan would appear to have been the last straw.
Is Oisin going to be back on the panel for Sunday? He'd love to come against the Down men!
Posted on: Today at 07:52:52 PMPosted by: corn02
Insert Quote
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on Today at 07:15:41 PM
. McDonnell hasn't given me a go at all since he gave away the free that lost the Monaghan match.
Clearly I have delusions of grandure!
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 23, 2008, 10:56:47 PM
Down are the make weights and an Arma cakewalk is written all over this one. The Arma defense will stifle anything the Down attack can produce and their classy forwards will have a field day against a very dodgy Down defense.
Our only hope is for mercy and that the gate men open the gates early so we can leave before the suffering gets too much. Can't understand why I have bought a ticket.
Why are you trying to be me, "in the onion bag"
Hard to see Armagh making any changes, McDonnell does seem cautious by nature and it would be a huge surprise if he were to make changes, in theory Paddy McKeever & Moriarity should be the most likely to lose out in any reshuffle, although his predilection for Mo is well known by now and he did nothing wrong against Cavan. A repeat MF performance would do lovely but more is required from our HB & HF lines, our MF dominance the last day possibly disguised a weakness or two elsewhere. Down aren't any great shakes but this game moreso than Cavan should let us no where we are at the minute.
Don't believe for a second that Ambrose Rodgers wont play and if I were a Down man I'd be screaming for McComiskey to start – what is the story there??
was at friends of armagh corporate day at down royal and the story doing the rounds was that donaghy would start with francie going on a man to man job on coulter( coulter to play in the corner), source to be fair wasnt ithat reliable in the past .
also the south armagh contingent let holywood and mc donnell know in no uncertain terms that down have to be put to the sword
Quote from: naka on June 24, 2008, 11:49:38 AM
was at friends of armagh corporate day at down royal and the story doing the rounds was that donaghy would start with francie going on a man to man job on coulter( coulter to play in the corner), source to be fair wasnt ithat reliable in the past .
also the south armagh contingent let holywood and mc donnell know in no uncertain terms that down have to be put to the sword
Dont beleive that, i honestly dont think Francie is speedy enough for Coulter, Listen the way i look at it, if our MF and that diamond of players get plenty of possesion then we wont have to worry about coulter cause he wont be getting the supply
do all the talking and build up you want Lads. Down have already beaten the best in Ulster. We will do our talking on the field. We have nothing to lose unlike Armagh. After all we are only a little division 3 team.
So keep building Armagh up, as they have done so much to deserve it.
QuoteListen the way i look at it, if our MF and that diamond of players get plenty of possesion then we wont have to worry about coulter cause he wont be getting the supply
First thing is that I can't see us lording midfield the way we did against Cavan. I'd say there'll be a lot of breaking ball and hopefully Martin O'Rourke can utilise his greatest strength sweeping up loose possession. We need a big performance and a shut mouth from O'Rourke. If we break win or slightly get on top at midfield I think we'll win for the simple reason that Clarke and McDonnell are more dangerous than the players Down have inside.
That siad, the issue of who will mark Coulter is a tricky one. Mallon doesn't have the height and Francie may struggle for pace although it'll depend how closely Benny sticks to the square. If DOnaghy is fit, he's probably the best bet but since I can't see any changes in the backs, I'd start Francie on him and take in Donaghy if it isn't working early on.
QuoteDon't believe for a second that Ambrose Rodgers wont play and if I were a Down man I'd be screaming for McComiskey to start – what is the story there??
Its crazy not starting McComiskey. Superb footballer. If he's good enough int he last 15, he's good enough from the start. Don't buy into this impact sub thing at all, particularly not in gaelic Football.
After watching the Cavan game, and in particular the preformance of Martin O Rourke, I think its vital that players such as Murtagh and Sexton really step up to the mark and be counted on Sunday, as breaking ball will be key to this game. If MOR is able to win as much possession as he did against Cavan Down will struggle badly.
Quote from: Red Army on June 24, 2008, 12:10:29 PM
do all the talking and build up you want Lads. Down have already beaten the best in Ulster ??? ???. We will do our talking on the field. We have nothing to lose unlike Armagh. After all we are only a little division 3 team.
So keep building Armagh up, as they have done so much to deserve it.
If Tyrone are the best in Ulster how come they wont even be in the final?
Down beat a very understrength Tyrone team. Dont get me wrong i really hope Down win on Sunday as that would be deadly for ulster football to have them and Fermanagh in the final, but Tyrone are def not the best team in Ulster at the min with the injury list they have and the form they have been showing this year - so far.
All the best on sunday though it is the year of the underdog and Armagh are not what they were but will still be dangerous all the same.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 24, 2008, 12:18:04 PM
QuoteListen the way i look at it, if our MF and that diamond of players get plenty of possesion then we wont have to worry about coulter cause he wont be getting the supply
First thing is that I can't see us lording midfield the way we did against Cavan. I'd say there'll be a lot of breaking ball and hopefully Martin O'Rourke can utilise his greatest strength sweeping up loose possession. We need a big performance and a shut mouth from O'Rourke. If we break win or slightly get on top at midfield I think we'll win for the simple reason that Clarke and McDonnell are more dangerous than the players Down have inside.
That siad, the issue of who will mark Coulter is a tricky one. Mallon doesn't have the height and Francie may struggle for pace although it'll depend how closely Benny sticks to the square. If DOnaghy is fit, he's probably the best bet but since I can't see any changes in the backs, I'd start Francie on him and take in Donaghy if it isn't working early on.
QuoteDon't believe for a second that Ambrose Rodgers wont play and if I were a Down man I'd be screaming for McComiskey to start – what is the story there??
Its crazy not starting McComiskey. Superb footballer. If he's good enough int he last 15, he's good enough from the start. Don't buy into this impact sub thing at all, particularly not in gaelic Football.
I would have thought that Mallon would mark Coulter, Francie has lost whatever yard of pace he had.
I'd be delighted to see McComiskey among the subs
All the talk is who is going to pick up Benny but who is going to mark Messrs Clarke and Mc Donnell :-\
Personally I'd put Ciaran mc Keever on him, follow him all over the pitch
Exactly, Howard, Rafferty or McCartan would all badly struggle. Maybe Ross will drop someone like Murphy in front of the FB line. Our FB line is by far our major weakness, I fear what Clarke and McDonnell could do.
McComiskey has to start, simple as.
QuoteAll the talk is who is going to pick up Benny but who is going to mark Messrs Clarke and Mc Donnell
Sure Down aren't going to be worrying about a team like Armagh, whoever the Mourne men play will be well fit for anybody the Orchard county have. After all, Down have won five All Ireland's and Armagh only have one. That's all that matters.
Quote from: southdown on June 24, 2008, 03:54:17 PM
Exactly, Howard, Rafferty or McCartan would all badly struggle. Maybe Ross will drop someone like Murphy in front of the FB line. Our FB line is by far our major weakness, I fear what Clarke and McDonnell could do.
McComiskey has to start, simple as.
I think this would be a foolish ploy! - The way to beat Armagh is attack them! IMO
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 24, 2008, 03:56:00 PM
QuoteAll the talk is who is going to pick up Benny but who is going to mark Messrs Clarke and Mc Donnell
Sure Down aren't going to be worrying about a team like Armagh, whoever the Mourne men play will be well fit for anybody the Orchard county have. After all, Down have won five All Ireland's and Armagh only have one. That's all that matters.
And you forgot to mention that they have already beat the best in Ulster. ??? ???
Quote from: southdown on June 24, 2008, 12:22:48 PM
After watching the Cavan game, and in particular the preformance of Martin O Rourke, I think its vital that players such as Murtagh and Sexton really step up to the mark and be counted on Sunday, as breaking ball will be key to this game. If MOR is able to win as much possession as he did against Cavan Down will struggle badly.
I tohught Marty had one of his poorer games against Cavan, expecting a lot more on Sunday.
MOR won very little break ball against cavan compared to his norm.
Coulter was playing centre half forward against tyrone iin the replay.
Down don't have anyone capable of marking either McDonnell or Clarke...
Down really dont have a suitable marking duo for McDonnell and Clarke. Id expect Howard to pick up McDonnell while McCartan is probably better suited to Clarke.
To be honest Id be happy enough to let Clarke and McDonnell tear away. Id be confident in our middle diamond winning enough possession to supply our forwards with enough ball to win the game by 3 or 4 points.
No matter who they are up against, Clarke and McDonnell are going to get big scores. If McCartan and Howard can niggle and make things awkward for them then that would be all the better.
My Starting Down XV for Sunday
1. B.McVeigh
2. L.Howard
3. D.McCartan
4. D.Rafferty
5. P.Murphy
6. L.Doyle
7. A.Carr
8. D.Gordon
9. A.Rodgers
10. R.Sexton
11. R.Murtagh
12. D.Hughes
13. J.Clarke
14. B.Coulter
15. P.McComiskey
Has the makings of a very good game and I'm sure there'll be a big crowd there to watch it. The midfield area is crucial in this game. Down beat Tyrone because they were able to dominate that area. I think they have the potential to at least break even against Armagh there to. There forwards are dangerous and they could put up a decent score and like any Down team they are much better when their confidence is high. My big worry for Down would be if they struggle and dont win the midfield battle. The full back line is bad and were lucky that Tyrone didnt get the ball up the field for long periods. I'm not sure if they've got a defender to mark McDonnell. A half decent day would help Down, if its wet Armagh will win.
Quoteif its wet Armagh will win
That's that then....forecast for the whole weekend is rain, rain and more rain.
The venue factor should not be underestimated. It is virtually a home venue for Armagh over the last 9 years or so, and it is a place they have had their fair share of success.
Irrespective of weather, venue etc., I predict Armagh to win easing off with a few points to spare. I think Armagh have the stronger backbone of a team and the forwards who will undoubtedly rack up a fair score. Arguably Armagh's strongest line, the full forward line, is coming up against arguably Down's weakest line, their full back line, it could be a torrid day for the Down backs. At the other end, I expect Coulter to be pretty anonymous, that's what Armagh teams tend to do to the big name forwards from the opposition. Midfield should be 50/50 with Armagh expected to hoover up the majority of the break ball. That's my opinion anyway....
Does anyone know roughly how long it takes ticketmaster to send out the tickets? Considering I ordered them on Thursday evening?
I am going to the match as a proud Down man. I am already satisfied because our boys wiill be pleased to for the chance to grace the same pitch as these Arma greats. After all look at Arma's achievements?
Down cannot realistically expect to match McGrane in midfield, McDonnell and Clarke upfront and wow betide us if Francie starts in defense. We should just satisfy ourselves by enjoying our day out, enjoy a few beers, the craic and bask in the reflective glow of the Arma titans as they steam roller over us. Look what Arma's achievements since history began in 2002 (or was it 03 - doesn't matter, a flash in the pan really).
To be well trashed and by this superior Arma team is an honour and right we have earned so we should be glad of it.
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Ps: I plan to take a detour on the way home and stop at the Cross to congratulate Arma on their fine win. Maybe meet a few of you there for a friendly pint?
QuoteDoes anyone know roughly how long it takes ticketmaster to send out the tickets? Considering I ordered them on Thursday evening?
I'd have thought you should have had them by now as Ticketmaster are usually pretty prompt. Give them to Thursday and get on the phone if they haven't arrived.
Random points.
Sunday will be interesting to see what sort of mental attitude Armagh have. I keep reading on another thread that Ulster titles no longer mean anything to these boys, but at the back of their minds they surely must know that there isn't an All Ireland in their team this year. This has to play on their minds in terms of motivation. On top of this, having not had a rivalry with them for years, do they even 'hate' Down anymore? Much like Tyrone against Down, Armagh couldn't be faulted for effort against Cavan, but the intensity of a few years ago wasn't there. The bloody mindedness and cockiness aren't seemingly as evident.
I would never, ever wish an injury on a player, but it would be very interesting to see how Armagh might adapt should either Clarke or McDonnell have to come off. Uladh or someone might be able to reel off real stats, but it seems to me that when one or the other has been missing in the past 3 seasons has correlated directly with indistinguished Armagh performances.
I sincerely hope that Ronan Murtagh and Ciaran McKeever line up as far away from each other as possible. Neither is likely to finish the game if they're in direct opposition.
As well as being better players than their direct opponents, Down's half-back line has a distinct aeriel advantage over Armagh's half-forward line. I would wager a week's wages that McVeigh's first 10 kick-outs will head towards Gordon (and why wouldn't they?), but this is a useful back-up plan. Armagh's defence is much stronger than Down's. We might need 60%+ possession at midfield to break even on the scoreboard.
Martin O'Rourke will, I imagine, be found spending quite a bit of this game standing in front of Benny Coulter. I'd suggest we do likewise with Murtagh or Sexton at the other end. Where Clarke and McDonnell are most dangerous of all is that they instinctively know how to time their runs and break the ball to each other...almost inevitably leading to goals. Just one more body back there, even if it has to be a forward, should be worth at least 3 points in Down's favour.
What a pity that Down wasted their time and energies winning All Irelands at the old bog football game. If like Armagh we had spent our time in the wilderness, inventing and perfecting the art of real football, we would now be worthy of respect and not bit part actors at Clones, gasping in awe at the sublime skills of our neighbours. But its never to late to learn, so come from every hamlet in Down, pay close attention As Bellew and Co. treat us to a demonstration of modern gaelic football and the skills required to succeed at it. What a wonderful privelege and opportunity for us to acquire the basics to hand on to our children. Maybe some day in the distant future, they too will be counted among the greats
Quote from: balladmaker on June 24, 2008, 08:51:55 PM
I expect Coulter to be pretty anonymous, that's what Armagh teams tend to do to the big name forwards from the opposition.
Someone should have mentioned that to Kieran Donaghy :D
(http://dynimg.rte.ie/0000960b10dr.jpg)
There's some God awful efforts at 'banter' on this thread.
I'd expect Down to be fired up for this game off the back of the Tyrone win and to be full of buzz and running early on. Wouldn't be surprised if they build up a healthy lead early on. But if Armagh can get a foothold around the middle and break even here, then that should be enough for a win as imo Armagh's forwards best line (full forward) will do a bit of damage to Down's worst (full-back). I'd like to see Charlie Vernon build on his performance against Cavan, and with a bit more belief in himself run at the Down defence and open things up for Clarke and O'Donnell. If things aren't going Armagh's way there are a few options to spring from the bench and i hope that Peter McDonnell won't be afraid to make the necessary switches. This is another big test for Armagh's new management and it will be interesting to see how he performs if the pressure is on.
Would expect Mallon to mark Coulter if he is in the full forward line, but if he moves out the field as he did against Tyrone Mc Keever should pick him up. Coulter will get the ball regardless of who is on him, but it is just a case of trying to limit his scoring chances - much the same as Mc Donnell & Clarke.
IMHO Down need to win at least 60% in the middle to have a chance of winning the game.
Although they were very good against Tyrone there, I cant see them dominating again.
Dont believe this sh1t about Ambrose & if Comiskey starts on the bench I will be delighted.
Armagh winning, but not by any great margin (3/4pts). Even if we dominate we just dont put teams away, bar '99 of course ;)
Quote from: DownFanatic on June 24, 2008, 06:14:36 PM
To be honest Id be happy enough to let Clarke and McDonnell tear away. Id be confident in our middle diamond winning enough possession to supply our forwards with enough ball to win the game by 3 or 4 points.
Lets hope ross feels the same way!
wobbler - do you really think armagh players are thinking that they've no chance of winning an all ireland and that this will somehow affect their mindest for sunday?
talk about tyrone all you like but there is only one "enemy" in armagh.
Is 5times still banned? i miss him... some of the clowns on this thread make him look positively charming
Quote from: Uladh on June 25, 2008, 12:23:09 AM
talk about tyrone all you like but there is only one "enemy" in armagh.
Correct
Dont know what it is but Tyrone just dont come close
I hope Benny starts at centre half forward and what i fear most about our back line is their height, Clarke and Stevie are great fielders of the ball, but in fairness there is nt much on the bench to rotate.. Colgan is a big lad but Clarke would skin him, he would have too much craft for him!!!
Quote
Sunday will be interesting to see what sort of mental attitude Armagh have. I keep reading on another thread that Ulster titles no longer mean anything to these boys, but at the back of their minds they surely must know that there isn't an All Ireland in their team this year. This has to play on their minds in terms of motivation. On top of this, having not had a rivalry with them for years, do they even 'hate' Down anymore? Much like Tyrone against Down, Armagh couldn't be faulted for effort against Cavan, but the intensity of a few years ago wasn't there. The bloody mindedness and cockiness aren't seemingly as evident.
Before the Derry Mckenna cup match, Peter McDonnell was asked what is expectations for the year were and he replied that the squad's own expectations were much higher than their supporters' expectation. Now this may have been a simple matter of saying the right things in public but I got the impression that McDonnell is aiming at the All Ireland. Of course, aiming and having the slightest chance of achieving are two very different things but when you look at the season ahead Kerry are clearly the best side in the country but I think they may be beaten somewhere along the way, Dublin are next best but have real flaws. After that, there's nobody who would stand out as a step above Armagh. An All Ireland is unlikely but its within the realms of possibility and I certainly wouldn't expect the team to believe they can't achieve it.
Quote
Martin O'Rourke will, I imagine, be found spending quite a bit of this game standing in front of Benny Coulter. I'd suggest we do likewise with Murtagh or Sexton at the other end. Where Clarke and McDonnell are most dangerous of all is that they instinctively know how to time their runs and break the ball to each other...almost inevitably leading to goals. Just one more body back there, even if it has to be a forward, should be worth at least 3 points in Down's favour.
Not sure that's how it'll pan out. Aidan is more likely to sweep back with Charlie providing the extra cover in defence if necessary. Martin O'Rourke will be needed for the breaking ball around the middle. One of the most encouraging things about Clarke and McDonnell against Cavan was that they weren't both automatically looking for each other but were being well supported by the half forwards.
Quote from: full back on June 25, 2008, 12:51:09 AM
Quote from: Uladh on June 25, 2008, 12:23:09 AM
talk about tyrone all you like but there is only one "enemy" in armagh.
Correct
Dont know what it is but Tyrone just dont come close
Depends where you are from I guess.
Being from the west of the county there is no question that I see Tyrone as more "hated" rivals than Down.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2008, 10:37:41 PM
Random points.
Sunday will be interesting to see what sort of mental attitude Armagh have. I keep reading on another thread that Ulster titles no longer mean anything to these boys, but at the back of their minds they surely must know that there isn't an All Ireland in their team this year. This has to play on their minds in terms of motivation. On top of this, having not had a rivalry with them for years, do they even 'hate' Down anymore? Much like Tyrone against Down, Armagh couldn't be faulted for effort against Cavan, but the intensity of a few years ago wasn't there. The bloody mindedness and cockiness aren't seemingly as evident.
I would never, ever wish an injury on a player, but it would be very interesting to see how Armagh might adapt should either Clarke or McDonnell have to come off. Uladh or someone might be able to reel off real stats, but it seems to me that when one or the other has been missing in the past 3 seasons has correlated directly with indistinguished Armagh performances.
I sincerely hope that Ronan Murtagh and Ciaran McKeever line up as far away from each other as possible. Neither is likely to finish the game if they're in direct opposition.
As well as being better players than their direct opponents, Down's half-back line has a distinct aeriel advantage over Armagh's half-forward line. I would wager a week's wages that McVeigh's first 10 kick-outs will head towards Gordon (and why wouldn't they?), but this is a useful back-up plan. Armagh's defence is much stronger than Down's. We might need 60%+ possession at midfield to break even on the scoreboard.
Martin O'Rourke will, I imagine, be found spending quite a bit of this game standing in front of Benny Coulter. I'd suggest we do likewise with Murtagh or Sexton at the other end. Where Clarke and McDonnell are most dangerous of all is that they instinctively know how to time their runs and break the ball to each other...almost inevitably leading to goals. Just one more body back there, even if it has to be a forward, should be worth at least 3 points in Down's favour.
Wobbler, is there history between these 2 boys? :D
Dear Ross, please put on James Colgan.
Cheers
Dear Ross
Please put on james colgan and let Clarke and McDonnell tear away. Id be confident in your middle diamond winning enough possession to supply your forwards with enough ball to win the game by 3 or 4 points.
Cheers
Is the Armagh full forward line that good ?
They dont have the pace that has really destroyed Down full back lines in recent times. Ok, they are strong in the air and Stevie might chip in with 4/5 points and Clarke 2 or 3 but that isnt a match winning score . The Down half back line will probably contribute something similar. Goals will be key ...as Mchugh has pointed out Armagh arent noted goal scorers . I expect Dan McCartan and Ronan will wrestle it out for 70 minutes and I am sure we can get someone to niggle away at Stevie. I would be more worried that Doyle will give Stephen Kernan too much room...mind you the opposite might be the case.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 24, 2008, 10:37:41 PM
Sunday will be interesting to see what sort of mental attitude Armagh have. I keep reading on another thread that Ulster titles no longer mean anything to these boys, but at the back of their minds they surely must know that there isn't an All Ireland in their team this year. This has to play on their minds in terms of motivation. On top of this, having not had a rivalry with them for years, do they even 'hate' Down anymore? Much like Tyrone against Down, Armagh couldn't be faulted for effort against Cavan, but the intensity of a few years ago wasn't there. The bloody mindedness and cockiness aren't seemingly as evident.
What planet do you live on? This is Armagh v Down, this is as big as it gets. Forget Derry v Tyrone forget Armagh v Tyrone, this is the biggest, oldest and fiercest rivalry in Ulster. This is war. Down havent beaten Armagh since they were reigining All Ireland champs in 1992. Down are out to avenge the 1999 hammering. Armagh are out to keep Down in their place. This is about bragging rights in the offices, factories, pubs and clubs in Newry. This victory will still be celebrated by one side or the other when the Schools return in September such is the rivalry. To suggest otherwise is idiocy.
Armagh are up for this game, make no mistake about it. This is a stepping stone to bigger and better things. Armagh didnt have to get motivated to beat Cavan, we didnt need to. We`ll show you bloody mindedness and cockiness about 5.30 on Sunday. Just make sure you hang around long enough to see it.
Thats the Spirit Double Cross. Armagh didnt get playin Down anywhere near enough over the last 15 years, and i think that motivation to beat them will still be very strong!!
Cannot see Armagh failing to find the net in this game. Armagh by 4!!
Mate you cannot come on here telling people who their biggest rivalry is with. You are obviously from South Armagh and so it makes sense that you would always want to get one over on Down due to possibly attending the same schools in newry etc etc. However, as a mid armagh man I can tell you that I would feel that Tyrone are the greatest 'enemy' in footballing terms to us. I have no resentment at all towards Down in that way.
Quote from: Scarface on June 25, 2008, 11:37:48 AM
Mate you cannot come on here telling people who their biggest rivalry is with. You are obviously from South Armagh and so it makes sense that you would always want to get one over on Down due to possibly attending the same schools in newry etc etc. However, as a mid armagh man I can tell you that I would feel that Tyrone are the greatest 'enemy' in footballing terms to us. I have no resentment at all towards Down in that way.
I'd agree, depends on where you live, who your neighbours/friends are & where you are schooled!
Am I the only one who wouldn't mind Enda starting, was Canavan's toughest opponent, would he be up to doing a job on Coulter. Benny is unreal in the air and that is Mallons weak point - people winninh high ball over him. Play low ball into Coulter and Mallon will break even, play high football and Mallon could be caught. Of course Armagh will have so many men back that high bal lwill probably be snuffed out.
DOWN made the first move with a victory over Tyrone and Armagh kept their half of the bargain with a four-point win over Cavan. This Sunday, the old rivals will get the chance to renew pleasantries at Clones.
There is a buzz around Down that has not been seen since they reached the 2003 Ulster final where they suffered a replay defeat to Tyrone.
Armagh have held the indian sign over the Mournemen for a number of years. Successive league defeats to their rivals in 2005, 2006 and 2007 would have hurt but not as much as the Championship defeats of 1998 and 1999 along with a qualifier loss in 2001 for good measure.
The red and black have been starved of success and this year's Dr McKenna Cup glory will do little to vanquish the hunger. They want real success; an Ulster title will suffice for now.
Momentum plays a big part in Ulster and Down hold that ace. The manner in which they disposed of Tyrone will add character and belief to the team. Four points down midway through the first half of extra-time, they looked dead and buried. The way they responded is very much indicative of the sort of persona Ross Carr and DJ Kane have developed for the team.
The county renowned as the aristocrats of gaelic football are suddenly rolling up their sleeves. When Armagh won Sam in 02 and Tyrone in 03 and 05, Kerry were victims in all three seasons.
The 03 semi-final was famously described as 'puke football' by Pat Spillane. Tyrone physically battered their rivals around the pitch. Kerry learned about blanket defences, they learned a bit of cynicism and through 'puke football', they are now looking for their third All-Ireland on the trot.
Down can relate to the Kingdom. Anyone who witnessed Down playing Armagh or Tyrone over the last few years will have witnessed The five-time All-Ireland champion's willingness to play attractive football ruthlessly quelled by their opponents. The Down team of 2008 is a
different proposition who are not afraid to deliver the big hits when needed.
A analysis of each team reveals that the Orchard certainly have a sizeable advantage in regards talent, so Down will have to get their tactics just right.
Jackie Lynch, Ambrose Rodgers and Dan Gordon are likely to play in the middle - this could backfire. A crowded midfield creates a lot of break ball. With Brian Dooher a shadow of his former self, it is fair to say that Armagh's Martin O'Rourke is the best break-ball winner in Ulster.
Even when playing well below his best against Cavan, the Dromintee man was still Armagh's best performer in this sector, mirroring their league campaign. Down may be advised to keep the midfield as deserted as possible, allowing Gordon to demonstrate his aerial abilities.
Aidan O'Rourke is likely to sit back and cover the space in front of Benny Coulter and Paul McCumiskey - if he starts. The simple way to eliminate the sweeper from proceedings is to deliver accurate, diagonal ball to Down's favoured two-man full-forward line.
Paul Murphy and Liam Doyle proved in the Tyrone matches that they are well capable of delivering the supply to the inside line. If they continue this against Armagh, O'Rourke could prove anonymous and Down could prosper.
Coulter was not at his best in the two games against Tyrone yet still hit 2-3. Andy Mallon will pick up the Mayobridge man and although he has snuffed out the likes of Seanie Johnston and Paddy Bradley, he may find Coulter a different proposition.
Coulter must rely on John Clarke and Daniel Hughes to assist in the scoring. McCumiskey, when he appears, will have a field day on Moriarty if he receives the supply he needs. Moriarty has a tendency to foul when rounded and the Dundrum man has the pace and intelligence to exploit this.
Down's biggest fear should be their porous full-back line. Martin Cole will be banned for the match so Daniel McCartan may take the number three jersey with Luke Howard and Damian Rafferty beside him.
The partnership of Stephen McDonnell and Ronan Clarke is well celebrated, but if the Down defence allow the duo to get the run on them, the Mournemen will be heading for the qualifiers.
Much has been made that this is an old Armagh team on the slide; The average age of the Armagh side who faced Cavan was slightly over 26.5, the average age of the Down side that lined out in Newry was just one year younger. Carr and Kane are too smart to believe the assumption.
Armagh's win over Down in the first round of the 1998 USFC championship was seen as both a stepping stone out of the doldrums and also proof that Armagh now had the edge over their rivals.
A win for Down on Sunday and the pendulum will have swung in the other direction. That outcome however, is unlikely. Armagh have a stronger team and should progress to the Ulster Final where Fermanagh lie in wait.
Verdict: Armagh by two and less than 30 men to be on the field at the game's conclusion.
Where's that article from Corn? The only point I would make is that Andy Mallon most defintely has never snuffed out Paddy Bradley - Bradley gave him a serious roasting in Casement, it was only when McNulty when on to him that Bradley disappeared.
I'm most defintely from the Tyrone hating part of Armagh, but I grew up with a healthy dislike like for Down as my da worked with "Down slabbers" a lot and a fair few south armagh men who must have educated him.
What must be really annoying to Armagh, no matter how much their fans are building the Team up for Sunday. Is the fact that no matter who they decide is their biggest Enemy, Tyrone have twice as many all Ireland Titles and Down have 5 times as many.
Best of luck on sunday Lads. Oh yeah you dont need it. It will obviously be a cake walk to the super power of Ulster football.
Tell me how does it feel to be the 4th Best team in Ulster and thats only because A comes before D.
Good article corn glad to see ur not tryin to please the locals with ur article ;)
Quote from: Red Army on June 25, 2008, 12:17:13 PM
What must be really annoying to Armagh, no matter how much their fans are building the Team up for Sunday. Is the fact that no matter who they decide is their biggest Enemy, Tyrone have twice as many all Ireland Titles and Down have 5 times as many.
Best of luck on sunday Lads. Oh yeah you dont need it. It will obviously be a cake walk to the super power of Ulster football.
Tell me how does it feel to be the 4th Best team in Ulster and thats only because A comes before D.
once again we see that some people continue to live on past glories..... ::)
QuoteAnyone who witnessed Down playing Armagh or Tyrone over the last few years will have witnessed The five-time All-Ireland champion's willingness to play attractive football ruthlessly quelled by their opponents.
Complete nonsense from whatever journalist wrote that. Armagh have played Down once in the championship this century, an open high scoring game in Casement Park, even if it was a little one sided.
Quote from: Real1995 on June 25, 2008, 12:17:53 PM
Good article corn glad to see ur not tryin to please the locals with ur article ;)
Keeping their feet on the ground!
Quote
Ruthlessly quelled?
I wouldn't call it ruthless. Just a poor side being well beaten by a vastly superior outfit. By a distance, the worst tackle in the game was from a Down man.
More physical than dirty I am sure it means, just like 01.
TAM, I doubt you could argue that in that game and in Down's recent games with Tyrone, they have not been physically able to compete?
QuoteTAM, I doubt you could argue that in that game and in Down's recent games with Tyrone, they have not been physically able to compete?
I don't doubt that. My problem is with a lazy journalists attempting to apply a crass generalisation to Armagh matches with Down when it simply doesn't apply, at least not in the championship.
Lazy? I attended both matches and was at plenty Tyrone - Down matches over the years. There is no doubt that they have physically been well behind both teams, no generilisation there.
what about the line up? donaghy, oisin, tony kernan?
Same as Cavan match.
Good effort corn, apart from the score prediction.
Spot on about the physicality, the evidence of the two tyrone matches is that this has at last been addressed. Hopefully the arma game will provide conclusive proof.
I think the McKenna Cup game in Omagh this year was Down laying Down a marker. Wrong result, but the Down team was not afraid to get phyiscal, something that had been missing the last few years.
A good start on Sunday (from Armagh) a few quick scores should be sufficient to raise the self doubts inherent within this Down team and ensure Armagh's calm safe passage to our first Ulster Final in Clones since 2002, and you all know what happened after that. ;D
Odds for Ulster Championship in Hughes Bookmakers, Portadown, to-day at 1.10pm
1/1 Armagh
6/4 Fermanagh
7/2 Down
Obviously Down men like Hughes don't fancy Down at all on Sunday ;D
Maybe Down men like Hughes is looking to make a few pound for himself.
That price will reflect the fact that of course Armagh are favorites to beat Down. So if you think of it as if Armagh get by Down they will be certs to beat fermanagh in the bookies eyes then 1/1 is a good price. Unlike you guys in Armagh we'll just take each game as it comes. The actual match betting is Armagh 4/7 Down 15/8 and 7/1 the draw...Same betting as the replay against Tyrone in Newry ;)! I'll take my 15/8 this week and worry about what price we are to win Ulster when/if we reach the final!
QuoteA good start on Sunday (from Armagh) a few quick scores should be sufficient to raise the self doubts inherent within this Down team and ensure Armagh's calm safe passage to our first Ulster Final in Clones since 2002, and you all know what happened after that. Grin
Odds for Ulster Championship in Hughes Bookmakers, Portadown, to-day at 1.10pm
1/1 Armagh
6/4 Fermanagh
7/2 Down
Obviously Down men like Hughes don't fancy Down at all on Sunday Grin
No value in that at all. I'd make us slight favourites on Sunday, and if we win, slight favourites again against Fermanagh but wouldn't back us at anything shorter than 4/6 against either side.
Agree there's no value in it, but it shows where the bookies think the Anglo Celt will end up, and they are seldom wrong. ;D
Wonder what price Armagh are on Sunday with a minus 3point handicap?
Interesting from a Fermanagh perspective, if Armagh win on Sunday Fermanagh will probably go out to 2/1 or 5/2 but if Down win it'll probably be an even money final. I'd hold off if I was an ernesider.
Quote
Wonder what price Armagh are on Sunday with a minus 3point handicap?
Armagh are 10/11 on betfair minus 2.5 points.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 25, 2008, 02:25:20 PM
Interesting from a Fermanagh perspective, if Armagh win on Sunday Fermanagh will probably go out to 2/1 or 5/2 but if Down win it'll probably be an even money final. I'd hold off if I was an ernesider.
if I was an ernesider, i'd be happier facing arma than Down as their make up is better suited to Fermanagh's style of play. And obviously the odds would be more enticing.
Quote from: passedit on June 25, 2008, 02:31:55 PM
if I was an ernesider, i'd be happier facing arma than Down as their make up is better suited to Fermanagh's style of play. And obviously the odds would be more enticing.
Interesting....
Who would Fermanagh rather play?
Armgh:
- Role of underdogs has done them well this year.
- Quick forwards coul give the Armagh defence the run around
-Owens could be the perfect man to foil Clarke
- 04 and 06 prove they can compete with them.
Down:
- McBarron could have a field day
- Would be entering the match with a 50/50 chance
Quote from: T Fearon on June 25, 2008, 02:21:44 PM
Agree there's no value in it, but it shows where the bookies think the Anglo Celt will end up, and they are seldom wrong. ;D
Hmmmmmmm, bookies seldom wrong! They were wrong in the Fermanagh Monaghan game, They were wrong in both the Down Tyrone games, They were wrong in the Fermanagh Derry game...proves they can get it wrong a lot when it comes to the ulster championship! Hope they get it wrong on sunday again ;D
As expectd, McConville will retire at the end of the year.
QuoteMcBarron would have a field day
Has McBarron ever had a field day?
He is due.
I'd wager he won't have one before he quits county football.
QuoteQuote
McBarron would have a field day
Has McBarron ever had a field day?
Have to say that was my reaction as well.
Corn, that story about McConville, is it not already common knowledge and something that's been publically announced?
Sure we will see if Down win on Sunday.
Coomon knowledge, don't know if it was publically announced - it is today anyway.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 25, 2008, 02:52:08 PM
QuoteMcBarron would have a field day
Has McBarron ever had a field day?
In fairness to the lad he couldn't score furniture.
I must say Armagh players/management saying they did not know the Down result and now McDonnell saying Down are favourites is sitting uncomfortable with me, looks foolish.
Likely in March - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7291393.stm
Confirmed today - http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mhgbqlmhsney/rss2/
Forecast for Sunday looks windy & showery, wont suit anybody I'd imagine
yeah the Armagh and Down ladies like the sun, the talent won't be the same :D
Quote from: T O Hare on June 25, 2008, 04:26:27 PM
yeah the Armagh and Down ladies like the sun, the talent won't be the same :D
Very little talent in Armagh, i always found the derry birds were always looking well when we went to matches
South Armagh women love the make up,but there will be plenty of birds in Clones with no interest in the football, mind you there will be plenty of fellas too!!!!!
Here are some of Paddy Power odds for Sunday.
http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=show_event_by_markets&chosen_ev_id=1142151&category=SPORTS&ev_class_id=&disp_cat_id=1 (http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=show_event_by_markets&chosen_ev_id=1142151&category=SPORTS&ev_class_id=&disp_cat_id=1)
I fancy Dan Gordan's long price to score a goal!
I generally find that women who go to matches are boggin
Did any of ya's see the Down Blade in Omagh with Down jersey Black ski pants and 6-8 inch high heels ? :o
Nope but id much appreciate a pic!
anybody know any news on mc Conville will he start, id rather see the same team line out.
Quote from: nutsy--1 on June 25, 2008, 07:39:09 PM
anybody know any news on mc Conville will he start, id rather see the same team line out.
Heard today that he will make an appearance at some stage
McConville won't start.
Given McDonnell got a decent performance and a win in his first outing with the 15 he selected against cavan, i'd imagine it would be hard for him to change. i'd like to see him sit francie down for this one and i don't think paddy McKeever does enough. i'd also have McNulty in for moriarty and McKinney in goals but that won't happen. realistically i hope he'll go for:
Hearty, Mallon, Donaghy, Moriarty, Kernan, O Rourke, McKeever, McGrane, Toner, Vernon, Mallon, O'Rourke, Kernan, Clarke, McDonnell.
nothing worse than a bird in a GAA Jersey. O'Neills dont do the ladies jerseys like the soccer and rugby crowd.
I think Tyrones lady following are pretty easy on the eye.
i take it from the comments about girls at matches im not welcome here :'(
Quote from: downgirl on June 25, 2008, 08:52:52 PM
i take it from the comments about girls at matches im not welcome here :'(
You are if you have a 38 inch chest, at least from what i've read on here. :-[
Always room for a Down girl.
i have a 38" waist (not surgically enhanced either) ;D, am i welcome here?
Quote from: downredblack on June 25, 2008, 07:22:09 PM
Did any of ya's see the Down Blade in Omagh with Down jersey Black ski pants and 6-8 inch high heels ? :o
walked past us was quite the site!
Possible teams doing the rounds -
Down - McVeigh, Howard, Colgan, Rafferty, Carr, Doyle, Murphy, Rodgers, Gordon, McKernan, Coulter, Murtagh, Hughes, Sexton, Clarke.
Armagh - Hearty, Mallon, Donaghy, Moriarty, Kernan, O'Rourke, McKeever, McGrane, Toner, Vernon, Mallon, O'Rourke, McDonnell, Clarke, Kernan.
The rumour from the previous poster is very close to the side which most Down supporters want to see. While Ross will be reluctant to change a winning line-up, the inclusion of Colgan and McKernan would be sensible in the circumstances. McComiskey probably did not do enough in the replay to justify starting, but he can have a huge impact coming off the bench. However, the team which is eventually named officially and the one which actually appears at Clones are not necessarily going to be the same.
I think the Armagh team will be:
Hearty
Mallon Bellew Finn
AK AOR McKeever
McGrane Toner
Vernon SK MOR
McDonnell Clarke TK.
Can anyone get odds on AOR for first goal, PP only does forwards and midfield.
Would Down seriously be considering playing Colgan at FB? Please god they will, Christmas & Birthday rolled into one for Clarke. I have watched that lad playing for St Louis, UUJ & Down and every time I watch him I cant understand how he got his reputation as a great footballer.
Does it matter who Down play at Full back? Christmas/Birthday etc all rolled in for Clarkie on Sunday regardless of the Down Full back's identity ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2008, 10:42:57 AM
Would Down seriously be considering playing Colgan at FB? Please god they will, Christmas & Birthday rolled into one for Clarke. I have watched that lad playing for St Louis, UUJ & Down and every time I watch him I cant understand how he got his reputation as a great footballer.
What he said.
id nearly bet my house on Dan mc Cartan picking up Clarke, the two have some history and know each other inside out at this stage.
If memory serves me it was a sigerson match at the dub where queens met st marys (incidentally clarke had just left queens to start studying at st marys, which probably would have grated with some of the queens boys) and throughout the match mc cartan proceeded to torture clarke on and off the ball and gave him an absloute torrid time of it, although clarke did do a bit of damage it was mc cartan who came out on tops but by pushing the boundaries to the very limit.
I think the two lived together at the time or shared digs and clarke was none too pleased by his housemates tactics in the game.. think the running joke was that clarke offered mccartan his togs after the match sayin that he seemed to want them so badly during the match he couldnt let go of them.
I expect this pair to do battle again with clarke havin a bit of revenge in mind, it could decide the outcome of the game. As a down man id be fairly confident of mccartan being ready for everythign clarke has to throw at him and as i said the two of them should know what to expect from each other, its stephen mc donell id be worried about, without monk cole we have nobody tall and strong enough for him.
on another note and somewhat disagreeing with what wobbler has said im hopin murtagh/sexton and mckeever are paired off, that should be fun.
anythehoo there has been alot of clap trap on here since this tie was decided a while ago and i dont want to get into a slanging match but at the end of the day on paper Armagh SHOULD win but i expect a close game and in reality past games/scorelines or history is completely irrelevant, 5 all irelands wont win Down the game and similarily a truck load of ulsters wont win the match for Armagh.
making a call id say Down 2-11 Armagh 1-14 or thereabouts with at least one sending off - and on that note i hope this game isnt ruined or decided by a refereeing performance.
good luck to both teams and sets of supporters and heres hoping for a great spectacle.
Murtagh would probably be favourite to get sent off for Down, looses all sense against Armagh.
Had a chat with a certain person yesterday and he was speaking with Ross Carr on monday.... Carr was so surprised Tyrone didnt try any off the ball/underhand tactics but he fully expects Armagh to and is prepared for it?!?!?!?!?!?!? :o
Hearsay!
Anyone know who the ref is for Sunday?
QuoteIf memory serves me it was a sigerson match at the dub where queens met st marys (incidentally clarke had just left queens to start studying at st marys, which probably would have grated with some of the queens boys) and throughout the match mc cartan proceeded to torture clarke on and off the ball and gave him an absloute torrid time of it, although clarke did do a bit of damage it was mc cartan who came out on tops but by pushing the boundaries to the very limit.
I think the two lived together at the time or shared digs and clarke was none too pleased by his housemates tactics in the game.. think the running joke was that clarke offered mccartan his togs after the match sayin that he seemed to want them so badly during the match he couldnt let go of them.
Aye they'd some battle that day. Was that 05 or 06. Was it the game that put St Mary's out of their own sigerson weekend? From what I can remember St Mary's where denied a goal that had definately crossed the line as well.
How do you prepare for off the ball/underhand tactics ?
Quote from: Sandy Hill on June 26, 2008, 12:01:53 PM
Anyone know who the ref is for Sunday?
joe mc quillan from cavan
Quote from: Candyman on June 26, 2008, 11:58:42 AM
Had a chat with a certain person yesterday and he was speaking with Ross Carr on monday.... Carr was so surprised Tyrone didnt try any off the ball/underhand tactics but he fully expects Armagh to and is prepared for it?!?!?!?!?!?!? :o
So the certain person that had the conversation with Ross on Monday will be thinking highly of you
coming on here slabbering about it.Idiot!
ha ha don't be worrying, it was Adrian Logan! :P
Quote from: corn02 on June 26, 2008, 09:10:32 AM
I think the Armagh team will be:
Hearty
Mallon Bellew Finn
AK AOR McKeever
McGrane Toner
Vernon SK MOR
McDonnell Clarke TK.
Can't see two kernans starting in the forwards Corn - it would leave the scoring unit short of ball winning and physicality. one only i'd imagine
I agree, this is what I am expecting though.
I'll be very surprised if there are any changes in the Armagh line up. Good performance the last day, they've all earned another go.
The jersey's that seem up for grabs as far as this thread goes anyway...
Paddy McKeever - His experience & strength will prove valuable, especially against a shrewd operator in Doyle. I expect Paddy to have a good game & prove the critics wrong on Sunday. Brian Mallon, Tony K, & Oisin will be pushing!
Finn Mo - Had a fine game v Cavan & has earned another start, though I would imagine Brendan Donaghy is biting at his heels, if he has a bad start on Sunday. I'm hoping Enda McNulty isn't finished here either!!
Great to see options from the bench this year!
QuoteI'll be very surprised if there are any changes in the Armagh line up. Good performance the last day, they've all earned another go.
The jersey's that seem up for grabs as far as this thread goes anyway...
Paddy McKeever - His experience & strength will prove valuable, especially against a shrewd operator in Doyle. I expect Paddy to have a good game & prove the critics wrong on Sunday. Brian Mallon, Tony K, & Oisin will be pushing!
Finn Mo - Had a fine game v Cavan & has earned another start, though I would imagine Brendan Donaghy is biting at his heels, if he has a bad start on Sunday. I'm hoping Enda McNulty is finished here either!!
Great to see options from the bench this year!
I'd like him to start Brian Mallon instead of Paddy McKeever but I'm expecting the same team as the Cavan match. One thing I'm hoping is an improved use of the sub's bench. As people have pointed out, we have more options on the line this year but that's no good if you only throw them on for 5 minutes as an afterthought.
I'm not sure doing enough to earn another go should come into the thinking for championship matches.
It isn't like club football where you are limited in your resources. at county level you have good players on the squad with strengths in different areas and selection decisions should be taken with an eye on the opposition. that in itself should ensure consistency of performance for fear of changes.
Some or all of Moriarty, Bellew, McKeever and possibly s kernan should be under review
Quote from: wobbller on June 26, 2008, 01:57:49 PM
Quote from: Candyman on June 26, 2008, 11:58:42 AM
Had a chat with a certain person yesterday and he was speaking with Ross Carr on monday.... Carr was so surprised Tyrone didnt try any off the ball/underhand tactics but he fully expects Armagh to and is prepared for it?!?!?!?!?!?!? :o
So the certain person that had the conversation with Ross on Monday will be thinking highly of you
coming on here slabbering about it.Idiot!
Wind yer neck in MORON!!
Im sure Ross Carr is really worried about what an "idiot" like me posts on a discussion board.... It'll really upset all his plans id imagine! ::)
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Some or all of Moriarty, Bellew, McKeever and possibly s kernan should be under review
Why would/should Kernan be under review uladh?
Quote from: full back on June 26, 2008, 02:59:49 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Some or all of Moriarty, Bellew, McKeever and possibly s kernan should be under review
Why would/should Kernan be under review uladh?
Because he stole his sweets when they were wee lads at a blitz somewhere and he has never forgiven him ::)
I agree that the other 3 have to be looked at as possible weak links. I would however only change one in the FB line and put Mallon in for McKeever. The FB line is the most important line on a team in my view and should only be changed sporadically. I would bring in Toner, probably for Moriarty as slow and all as Francie is( ::)) he adds strenght and experience and this will be vital also.
I certainly wouldn't change him but i can see why he might be. Ironically it could possibly by the younger brother or mallon who might fit the bill there. Steven's strength is in finding space and using it well but he doesn't do well in traffic. he struggles to hold onto the ball or use it when there are bodies around him and i can't see down allowing the same time on the ball as cavan did.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 26, 2008, 03:06:19 PM
I would bring in Toner, probably for Moriarty
Presume you mean donaghy?
SK has won me over this spring with his league form and i have him down as a starter. however his frailties in certain areas remain - every player has frailties.
Quote from: passedit on June 19, 2008, 03:08:51 PM
One of the things that impressed me most in both the games against Tyrone was the increased physicality with and without the ball right to the end from Down, whether the improvement is enough for arma remains to be seen but the intensity of the two tyrone games will have brought them on a bucketful. This is in stark contrast to the armawans who, whatever way you dress it, strolled through the Cavan game.
I have always been a great admirer of Mc Grane but now with OFT catching up with him I believe he could be the key to a down victory. It's shite or bust time for Dan Gordon, he should take Mc Grane on head to head and try to outfield him and run him into the ground. If i'm wrong and he still has another year in the legs then fair fcuks to him arma will probably win whether Dan takes him on or not, however i don't think arma could cope tactically or mentally with him getting cleaned.**
** I know he was mom v cavan, but i could still look good v those statues.
Realistically, neither man will allow the other to dominate. it is relatively easy for men of their stature to stop another midfielder catching. one worry i would have here is that mcgrane very rarely goes to break and always seems to think he'll catch. thats when dan could get a few fetches. dara o'se in 2006 benefitted from mcgrane's over confidence in this regard, when breaking the ball would've gotten armagh an even footing around the middle. running mcgrane into the ground also won't happen. he has a fierce engine and whatever about the age difference its one area he won't be found wanting. i could see scope for a cute man coming late onto attacks could find joy though. mcgrane will tend to charge about and make tackles and might take his eye off his man
in short, McGrane will not be cleaned out
I think that Donaghy is the man to mark Coulter, as some have said earlier in the thread Andy Mallon would have the pace to mark Coulter but not the physical presence, and Francie is the other way round, i.e. has the physical presence but not the pace. For me, Donaghy has both and would get my vote. I will also be seriously worried if I see Finn Mo going to pick up Danny Hughes after the roasting he got from him a couple of years ago in the league. Andy Mallon would be the man for that job.
Tonight's team sheet will probably be the same as it was for the Cavan game but I think our FB line needs a re-jig with the opposition in mind.
Why the concern about Coulter FFS? When did he last have a really good game? He must be the most over rated player in Ulster.
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Why the concern about Coulter FFS? When did he last have a really good game? He must be the most over rated player in Ulster.
I think Down people don't rate him as highly as he's rated outside the county.
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 03:10:09 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 26, 2008, 03:06:19 PM
I would bring in Toner, probably for Moriarty
Presume you mean donaghy?
SK has won me over this spring with his league form and i have him down as a starter. however his frailties in certain areas remain - every player has frailties.
A bit of a blond moment with the Toner thing!!!
I actually think Stephen will thrive in this type of game and will be vital in providing the ammo for the FF line. He is good at floating around, picking the ball off the likes of MOR and picking his passes. I have a notion that will be the case in this game as tehre will be lots of break ball and lose marking around the middle diamond.
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Why the concern about Coulter FFS? When did he last have a really good game? He must be the most over rated player in Ulster.
Your right Tony, overrated as hell !!!!!!!!
Quote from: T O Hare on June 26, 2008, 04:02:14 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Why the concern about Coulter FFS? When did he last have a really good game? He must be the most over rated player in Ulster.
Your right Tony, overrated as hell !!!!!!!!
Give him hell T O Hare, how dare he call your clubman overrated!
I know what he means about some down people saying he's overrated, I honestly think down people say this to other counties so that they don't think we are just a 1 man team...which we certainly are not. But Coulter would get on any team in the country in the full forward line, he can have moments of sheer brilliance...eg his 1armed catch followed by a goal in breffni park last year...and the way he pounced on the goal opportunity in newry saturday week ago! He is a class act without a doubt...but it's hard to be a class act for 70mins in every match you play!
He also scored 2-3 I think or 2-4 correct me someone against tyrone and it is thought he played well below par! I think we will see some moments of brilliance in Clones this Sunday from Benny!
Good man Tony, going by some of your previous posts, he's sure to score 2-6 against us now!! As a biased Armagh man I think we have a better team than Down but I would recognise that they have some excellent individuals who could beat us on a given day (Coulter, Gordon, Hughes, and McComiskey). I think that if we can keep those individulas quiet then we will win.
Coulter is no Paddy Bradley or Stephen O'Neill ffs. Realistically Down have not one consistently good forward that should unduly trouble our defence, on any normal day. Bookies rate the game as 4/7 Armagh and 15/8 Down and are quoting Armagh as 11/10 with a -2 point handicap. Barring a disastrous day that sounds like good value to me.
Get on it then Tony or you waiting for a freebie...
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 04:20:55 PM
Coulter is no Paddy Bradley or Stephen O'Neill ffs. Realistically Down have not one consistently good forward that should unduly trouble our defence, on any normal day. Bookies rate the game as 4/7 Armagh and 15/8 Down and are quoting Armagh as 11/10 with a -2 point handicap. Barring a disastrous day that sounds like good value to me.
What price is Coulter for the first goalscorer?
still fancy armagh by 5
Quote from: thebandit on June 26, 2008, 04:48:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 04:20:55 PM
Coulter is no Paddy Bradley or Stephen O'Neill ffs. Realistically Down have not one consistently good forward that should unduly trouble our defence, on any normal day. Bookies rate the game as 4/7 Armagh and 15/8 Down and are quoting Armagh as 11/10 with a -2 point handicap. Barring a disastrous day that sounds like good value to me.
What price is Coulter for the first goalscorer?
7s on pp
Just got an email from ticketmaster saying they are doing a 2-for-1 deal on tickets for the Munster Final, I wonder will they do the same for the Ulster Final???
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 03:41:53 PM
in short, McGrane will not be cleaned out
I thought he was cleaned out in the League game against Meath. For me the Cavan game was his best ever performance for Armagh. I honestly didn't think he could perform like that, admittedly against a poor enough Cavan performance in this sector. A match up with Gordon will be facinating and wouldn't like to call it, though I have seen McGrane break quite a few balls when he is behind his man.
Quote from: downgirl on June 26, 2008, 04:59:40 PM
Just got an email from ticketmaster saying they are doing a 2-for-1 deal on tickets for the Munster Final, I wonder will they do the same for the Ulster Final???
Doubt it.
Tickets will be like gold dust if Down get through.
Quote from: D4S on June 26, 2008, 04:07:41 PM
he can have moments of sheer brilliance...and the way he pounced on the goal opportunity in newry saturday week ago!
Are you f**king serious D4S?
You have to be a wind-up merchant?
FFS Ricey dropped the ball onto his lap
He didnt f**king pounce on it - anyone could have scored it
BTW, he is a class act & regardless of what Big Fearon says about him I would have him on my team any day
SK has to start uladh, although you may not rate him in this type of game he had a very good game last day out, and I hope he keeps the form up for this game. IMHO the midfield area will be saturated and if we release any break ball quickly Kernan should be the man to take it forward and/or put it in.
Big difference between championship and league football imposerous.
Quote from: full back on June 26, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
SK has to start uladh, although you may not rate him in this type of game he had a very good game last day out, and I hope he keeps the form up for this game
Eh, i agree...
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 03:10:09 PM
SK has won me over this spring with his league form and i have him down as a starter.
like the look of clarke at 7/1 first goal, armagh will try and exploit the weakness/inexperience in down ful back line. he wil be the man closest to the down goal and with armagh favourites think good price. coulter is always good bet for 1st goal but he may play further out the field sunday and cant see andy mallon doing a ricey! ;)
If space is tight in this game, i'd worry about SK's ability to get into it and it would mark a bit of a turning point for him if he was able to impose himself. This will be a big game for him and hopefully he will be able to respond. He's 25 so it's now or never! Big game as well for the likes of Charlie Vernon. If he believes in his own ability a bit more he could run Down ragged.
Agree with Uladh's points that McDonnell should be looking to put out his best side to beat Down, not worrying about giving certain lads another chance because they did ok against Cavan. Horses for courses. Paddy McKeever has had more than his fair share of chances over the years. Assuming he starts - if he doesn't perform early on, McDonnell shouldn't be afraid to try out one or 2 other options he can spring from the bench.
hope mcdonnell is brave if things arent going our way early on and makes changes rather than holding on. i no that against cavan the result for most of game wasnt in doubt but he never produced subs to very late on and it was obv mckeever was struggling
Dow have named an unchanged side for Sundays game.
Quotehope mcdonnell is brave if things arent going our way early on and makes changes rather than holding on. i no that against cavan the result for most of game wasnt in doubt but he never produced subs to very late on and it was obv mckeever was struggling
McDonnell has an astute football brain, he won't be found wanting on the sideline.
No word of the Armagh team yet.........Uladh you're normally the first man in with the lineups??
QuoteNo word of the Armagh team yet.........Uladh you're normally the first man in with the lineups??
Usually announced after Thursday night training so I'd assume word will start to filter through in the next couple of hours.
I usually get the lineups on here lads - the inside info isn't as easy to come by now that i'm not at home
Down Team for Sunday :
Brendan McVeigh,
Luke Howard, Daniel McCartan, Damien Rafferty,
Aidan Carr, Liam Doyle, Paul Murphy,
Dan Gordon, Jack Lynch,
Ronan Murtagh, Ambrose Rodgers,Danny Hughes,
John Clarke, Brendan Coulter, Ronan Sexton
Armagh Team for Sunday
Paul Hearty,
Andy Mallon, Francie Bellew, Finnian Moriarty,
Aaron Kernan, Aidan O'Rourke, Ciaran McKeever,
Paul McGrane, Kieran Toner,
Charlie Vernon, Paddy McKeever, Martin O'Rourke,
Steven McDonnell, Ronan Clarke, Stephen Kernan
Ard Mhacha 2-10
An Dun 0-13
No big suprise, but I would guess we'll be seeing a few subs quicker than the last day.
Would have liked to have seen Donaghy start as he is probably more mobile than francie for the Down forwards. But still should be strong enough on Sunday.
Hearing stories of Arma clubs not getting all the tickets they requested whereas Down clubs got all they asked for.
The smell of easy Down blood has created extraordinary high demand for tickets in Arma.
This fact plus the convincing weight of argument on this thread, all pointing to Down massacre and the shivering fear of another trouncing by the all conquering Arma has convinced me & 25 of me mates to accept our fate and we have decided to watch the tennis instead. Our bus has been cancelled so now we have 25 tickets available.
In the interests of good neighbourliness any Arma men needing tickets and willing to sit in the Down section can have ours at the following fair prices
Stand ticket - 40g clean diesel.
Terrace Ticket - 20g clean diesel.
ITOB I was just thinking of your situation and perhaps the relevant people should cancel the TV coverage, call off
the match and we should all watch the tennis because as you say there,s no point turning up to be stuffed by
the all conquering Armagh team that have won 6 ulsters and 6 oops sorry 1 All-Ireland.Call this fiasco off now before
someones get hurt. Hail the mighty Armagh
Quote from: T Fearon on June 26, 2008, 04:20:55 PM
Coulter is no Paddy Bradley or Stephen O'Neill ffs. Realistically Down have not one consistently good forward that should unduly trouble our defence, on any normal day. Bookies rate the game as 4/7 Armagh and 15/8 Down and are quoting Armagh as 11/10 with a -2 point handicap. Barring a disastrous day that sounds like good value to me.
Tony has a point here. Coulter does not generally contribute the points from feet at intercounty level that you would expect from a player with his reputation. There is also a tendency to mooch in behind the defence waiting for a defenders mistake...as in Ricey's gift. I would prefer to see him attack the ball in the air more ...he has a mighty leap when he gets it right. Still his fisted point against Tyrone in replay was best score of its type in championship and he seems to be linking up better with rest of forward line than previous years. Bellew might bring the best out of him. As Kerry/Donaghy showed two years ago if you can move the cornerstone Bellew the whole house falls.
bit surprsed to greg loughran back n bench, i see that Forker, Shannon and O'neill miss out...
Quote from: Real1995 on June 27, 2008, 10:10:53 AM
bit surprsed to greg loughran back n bench, i see that Forker, Shannon and O'neill miss out...
I see that. McDonnell has rotated his subs throughout, still would of expected them on the second 15.
Quote from: full back on June 26, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
Quote from: D4S on June 26, 2008, 04:07:41 PM
he can have moments of sheer brilliance...and the way he pounced on the goal opportunity in newry saturday week ago!
Are you f**king serious D4S?
You have to be a wind-up merchant?
FFS Ricey dropped the ball onto his lap
He didnt f**king pounce on it - anyone could have scored it
Calm the head full back! F**king there flat out! You took a small excerpt out of what I said in your comment! Yes coulters goal was opportunistic but many a lesser experienced player would have tried to catch it and kick it which was what I meant, he is a quick thinker! Maybe I could have thought of better examples but that 1 sprung to mind as it was recent... I notice you didnt highlight the point about his 1armed catch and goal against cavan last year! As I said before I guarantee you will see some moments of brilliance from him on sunday provided big francie doesnt try to take him out in the first half like he did to mickey linden in casement!!!
Now now D4S, you arent allowed to criticise Francies tackle on this site, everyone knows a shoulder in the face is a fair tackle........... in Armagh.
I just hope Francie goes one to one on Benny, but I dont think the Armagh managment will allow Francie to get that exposed.
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 12:45:30 AM
This fact plus the convincing weight of argument on this thread, all pointing to Down massacre and the shivering fear of another trouncing by the all conquering Arma has convinced me & 25 of me mates to accept our fate and we have decided to watch the tennis instead. Our bus has been cancelled so now we have 25 tickets available.
Emmm there's no tennis on the middle sunday at wimbledon ;) Maybe have a carryout watch the downarmagh match then germany spain could be a good option! Great deal with the diesel :D :D
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 10:45:28 AM
Now now D4S, you arent allowed to criticise Francies tackle on this site, everyone knows a shoulder in the face is a fair tackle........... in Armagh.
I just hope Francie goes one to one on Benny, but I dont think the Armagh managment will allow Francie to get that exposed.
Apologies for my ignorance :-X!
Down 1-12 Armagh 0-13 ;)
Quote from: Real1995 on June 27, 2008, 10:10:53 AM
bit surprsed to greg loughran back n bench, i see that Forker, Shannon and O'neill miss out...
where did you read that real?
Overal we have to be happy with the team though i'd have worries about bellew at the back and McKeever at 11 for pace and work rate respectively. hopefully both lads prove themselves capable. i'd imagne there might be a change or two to that down team before throwin.
Armagh site.
Those of you that are hoping that the Bould Francie will get cleaned are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Francie will have no bother against these boys. The most overrated forward line in Ireland. Down have a decent midfield, but there backs are so bad they make the forwards look good.
In all seriousness, Armagh will win by 5 or 6 points
::)
Its the Aristocracy v Nouveau Riche. A team that wants to play fast flowing, attractive football v puke football. Down play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Armagh think they invented football in 2002. The tide is turning in Ulster, the favourites are dropping like horses at the canal turn on Grand National day. proper order to be restored on Sunday evening. Down by 5 points.
The consolation for Down is that at least they won't get dumped out of the qualifiers by Sligo this year as they're in the Tommy Murphy Cup ;D
T. Fearon, your predictions are normally spot on :D How are you doing in the Bele Tele predictions competition?
It occurs that i should point out to you down gael that the great down teams of the 90s and particularly the 60s played with great style and panache but this down team's style is the very antipathy of that.
armagh are much closer to the style of those teams as they attempt to kick the ball. rugby league style running of the ball was never down's style.
Available at http://armagh-gaa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=184:armagh-team-to-play-down&catid=7:football&Itemid=110
Martin Ferris and Conor Clarke would have as much chance of getting a game as meself.
Exactly Benny where as ONeill probably would have a very slight chance.
QuoteITOB I was just thinking of your situation and perhaps the relevant people should cancel the TV coverage, call off
the match and we should all watch the tennis because as you say there,s no point turning up to be stuffed by
the all conquering Armagh team that have won 6 ulsters and 6 oops sorry 1 All-Ireland.Call this fiasco off now before
someones get hurt. Hail the mighty Armagh
As I've pointed out many times on this thread, Down's 5 All Irelands, one of which was only 14 years ago, are by far the most relevant factor in analysing who's going to win this match.
Was looking at the Armagh bench on Orchard County.com. With players like,
Oisin
Enda
T Kernan
Donaghy
B Mallon
McKinney
D McKenna
etc,
This looks very very strong. I think that most of these lads should get a run out against weaker counties in the next two matches versus Down & Fermanagh. They need to be blooded for tougher challenges that lie ahead.
Typical BBC website, they mention that Dan McCartan has held his place at FB, then they go and name Martin Cole at FB :D
BBC website is spot on 99% of the time. It's lazy to slag them off for every minor thing they get wrong.
As for UTV.... ::)
Stated all along, best Armagh squad since 02.
The BBC also ran a tv ad last night plugging its live coverage of this David V Goliath clash, and spoiled it all at the end with a board caption reading "Antrim" V Down :o. Does no one even carry out basic checks before these things go to air?
Quote from: T Fearon on June 27, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
The BBC also ran a tv ad last night plugging its live coverage of this David V Goliath clash, and spoiled it all at the end with a board caption reading "Antrim" V Down :o. Does no one even carry out basic checks before these things go to air?
(http://badidea.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/egg_on_the_face.jpg)
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 11:34:30 AM
::)
Its the Aristocracy v Nouveau Riche. A team that wants to play fast flowing, attractive football v puke football. Down play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Armagh think they invented football in 2002. The tide is turning in Ulster, the favourites are dropping like horses at the canal turn on Grand National day. proper order to be restored on Sunday evening. Down by 5 points.
They also seem to think that the history of the GAA began circa 1999 and that nobody else ever won anything :o :o :o
Think game on sunday will be a close one as most derbies are and if Down start well up front Armagh could be in trouble. However I would have great reservations about how that dodgy defence of downs will cope with the pace and power of McDonnel and Clarke if they are getting quick quality ball from middle third.
Gordon and McGrane should be a fine battle and will have a major say in who comes out on top.
I would love to see a Down Fermanagh final as it would be very good for football and would again demonstrate to the rest of the country how strong and competitive Ulster is, but i think Armagh are the better balanced team (Mainly because they have a defence that can defend) and have as much firepower as Down if they receive good ball.
My heart says Down but my head says Armagh
Down by 2
f**k it!!
Dam Heart always wins :D
Good luck to both teams
PS. After the lesson they gave us last week I will be supporting Fermanagh in the final no matter who comes thru this one.
Quote from: man in black on June 27, 2008, 12:44:42 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 27, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
The BBC also ran a tv ad last night plugging its live coverage of this David V Goliath clash, and spoiled it all at the end with a board caption reading "Antrim" V Down :o. Does no one even carry out basic checks before these things go to air?
(http://badidea.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/egg_on_the_face.jpg)
Which of the Derry management team is that i cant make him out right! :D
(My fellow Derry men will shoot me for that)
BANG
Why is everyone so insistent that the Down Defence is bad! It maybe was in the past.
However, the Irish news give man of the match to Paul Murphy for the Down Tyrone replay, as he managed to contain Dooher so hopefully he can contain the oh so magnificent Armagh forwards too.
Since Ross Carr took over and moved Laim Doyle to the half back line, the defence is beginning to come together, and everyone who insists on rubbishing the down defence, wake up and start watching them instead of living in the past.
The Down defence used to be the weak link in the team, but now they are just the weakest part of a great team!
Quote from: T Fearon on June 27, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
The BBC also ran a tv ad last night plugging its live coverage of this David V Goliath clash, and spoiled it all at the end with a board caption reading "Antrim" V Down :o. Does no one even carry out basic checks before these things go to air?
That's what u get when Mervyn from Newtownards is left in charge of details.
Quote from: Lazer on June 27, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
Why is everyone so insistent that the Down Defence is bad! It maybe was in the past.
However, the Irish news give man of the match to Paul Murphy for the Down Tyrone replay, as he managed to contain Dooher so hopefully he can contain the oh so magnificent Armagh forwards too.
Since Ross Carr took over and moved Laim Doyle to the half back line, the defence is beginning to come together, and everyone who insists on rubbishing the down defence, wake up and start watching them instead of living in the past.
The Down defence used to be the weak link in the team, but now they are just the weakest part of a great team!
" A great team" - You on the jungle juice already Lazer??
Well vastly imporved team anyway!
I'm saving going on the juice for the celebrations on sunday night!
Quote from: corn02 on June 27, 2008, 11:48:15 AM
Exactly Benny where as ONeill probably would have a very slight chance.
i think Conor Clarke would make more of an impact than O'Neill if he got the chance, Armagh has cover for midfield and the only other place for O Neill would be full forward!!
Lazer, can you explain the Down full-back line performance in Omagh then?
QuoteWhy is everyone so insistent that the Down Defence is bad! It maybe was in the past.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the Down defence is particularly bad, just that the full back line may struggle with an on-form Clarke and McDonnell, as would most full back lines in the country.
Think it will be a battle of how down defence deal with the aerial threat and how the armagh defence cope with the running of the down forward's.
Moriarty and Bellew may be exposed on this front. Im a big admirer of bellew but small, nippy forwards interchanging will not suit.
McCartan will be close to Clarke but Clarke will always get chances, showed glimpses that he is back to his best against Cavan. Makes for a great game.
Armagh to shade it by 2.
clubs happy with ticket allocation since or people struggling to get tickets?
The likes of Clarke and McDonnell are almost impossible to mark, but Coulter falls into the same category and maybe even McComiskey, when he appears. Down fans are hoping for the lions share of midfield posession, which will severly effect the amount of ball going towards Clarke and McDonnell.
But the bookies are rarely wrong and Armagh are raging hot favourites for this game and indeed Ulster ;)
Quote from: Lazer on June 27, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
Irish news give man of the match to Paul Murphy for the Down Tyrone replay, as he managed to contain Dooher so hopefully he can contain the oh so magnificent Armagh forwards too.
There are so many flaws in your assessment i don't know where to start, but... Murphy didn't play in defence against tyrone for a start.
Quote from: Kentucky Blue on June 27, 2008, 02:23:11 PM
clubs happy with ticket allocation since or people struggling to get tickets?
Our own club had very few tickets, hope they got a second allocation. UC selling anyway.
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 02:29:12 PM
Quote from: Lazer on June 27, 2008, 01:17:18 PM
Irish news give man of the match to Paul Murphy for the Down Tyrone replay, as he managed to contain Dooher so hopefully he can contain the oh so magnificent Armagh forwards too.
There are so many flaws in your assessment i don't know where to start, but... Murphy didn't play in defence against tyrone for a start.
Where did he play then? I thought he played in the half back line and followed Dooher about, granted Dooher may have had to drop deep at times to get the ball, but Murph spent more time defending than he did going forward, but you seem to view Down games different to most ::)
anyone know what the weather's like for sunday in clones?we won't see big dan catch as many clean balls if it stays the way it is!!
don't think getting tickets will be a problem with a few lady supporters changing their minds. you'll def not see the girl with the 6 inch heels and jockey pants at it that someone was talking about!
Down to win by a point
Bellew to go off (if he can climb out of bennys pocket) with a fake injury because he's getting roasted
Ambrose will get man of the match with 4 points from play
Paul McGrane to announce his retirement after the game.......... again!!!
Quote from: buglebhoy on June 27, 2008, 02:42:51 PM
anyone know what the weather's like for sunday in clones?we won't see big dan catch as many clean balls if it stays the way it is!!
don't think getting tickets will be a problem with a few lady supporters changing their minds. you'll def not see the girl with the 6 inch heels and jockey pants at it that someone was talking about!
Down to win by a point
Bellew to go off (if he can climb out of bennys pocket) with a fake injury because he's getting roasted
Ambrose will get man of the match with 4 points from play
Paul McGrane to announce his retirement after the game.......... again!!!
Gives showers all wekend,
Benny will be going of early with his teeth shattering from francie getting stuck, faking injury because hes actually scared shitless
Armagh to win by 3 ;)
i'd genuinely forgotten the cockiness of Down fans. Dj kane doesnt play anymore does he. We'll be grand then.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 02:57:11 PM
i'd genuinely forgotten the cockiness of Down fans. Dj kane doesnt play anymore does he. We'll be grand then.
I know what you are saying harp.
I almost forgot what they were like before.
At least in times gone by they had something to mouth about, now it is just a chane to spout off after all these barron years ;)
think it's called having a bit of banter!! and no DJ def doesn't play now
Quote from: full back on June 27, 2008, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 02:57:11 PM
i'd genuinely forgotten the cockiness of Down fans. Dj kane doesnt play anymore does he. We'll be grand then.
I know what you are saying harp.
I almost forgot what they were like before.
At least in times gone by they had something to mouth about, now it is just a chane to spout off after all these barron years ;)
Priceless , who do you boys think ya's are Kerry ? Armagh have won Sam once , so what about your barron years ? ::)
Quote from: full back on June 27, 2008, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 02:57:11 PM
i'd genuinely forgotten the cockiness of Down fans. Dj kane doesnt play anymore does he. We'll be grand then.
I know what you are saying harp.
I almost forgot what they were like before.
At least in times gone by they had something to mouth about, now it is just a chane to spout off after all these barron years ;)
Well yous had plenty of barron years so you should know all about it! Armagh WILL NOT stay at the top forever, someone will take them off their pedestal at some stage...all we're saying is why not Down? You've a short memory things go in swings and roundabouts..when armagh won ulster in 1999 it ended our successful team of the 90s who won 2 all irelands in their short period at the top, maybe now we can end your successful spell before god forbid you get a 2nd all ireland out of this team that has been so successful for the last 9years!!
Quote from: D4S on June 27, 2008, 03:16:34 PM
Quote from: full back on June 27, 2008, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 02:57:11 PM
i'd genuinely forgotten the cockiness of Down fans. Dj kane doesnt play anymore does he. We'll be grand then.
I know what you are saying harp.
I almost forgot what they were like before.
At least in times gone by they had something to mouth about, now it is just a chane to spout off after all these barron years ;)
Well yous had plenty of barron years so you should know all about it! Armagh WILL NOT stay at the top forever, someone will take them off their pedestal at some stage...all we're saying is why not Down? You've a short memory things go in swings and roundabouts..when armagh won ulster in 1999 it ended our successful team of the 90s who won 2 all irelands in their short period at the top, maybe now we can end your successful spell before god forbid you get a 2nd all ireland out of this team that has been so successful for the last 9years!!
I think its more difficult now for weaker counties to get back to where they once were as opposed to a top 4 county sliding into oblivion. The bar has been raised in Armagh, whereas maybe they should raze a few bars in Down.
Armagh are not "at the top". they lost both of their championship games against donegal and derry last year and struggled by one of the worst two teams in the province in the first round.
however, we feel our nobodys should have enough to beat your nobodys
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
They may have 5 but how many of them saw their first. ;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
not edgy, just confident!!
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 02:51:47 PM
Benny will be going of early with his teeth shattering from francie getting stuck, faking injury because hes actually scared shitless
When's Francie gonna catch him to hit him? :D
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I love it! Did have a chuckle reading that very witty!
I definitley remember 91+94 and yes I wasnt able to celebrate in the pubs as I was only a teenager 1994, and I agree with you it would be massively different to celebrate an ulster or all ireland win as a man! Hopefully this year will be the year! Ive experienced what it could be like to an extent in 03+05 when Tyrone won their 2ALLIRELANDS this decade as my woman is a tyrone woman...If you can't beat them join them ;D
But I dont think I could ever celebrate with Amrmagh sorry ;)
I meant ARMAGH not amrmagh or however i spelt it there in previous post :)
Quotesomeone will take them off their pedestal at some stage...all we're saying is why not Down?
Because Down are a pretty average side, who beat a pretty average Tyrone team at the second time of asking.
If Down did qualify for an Ulster final, it would be music to the ears of Fermanagh.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 02:51:47 PM
Benny will be going of early with his teeth shattering from francie getting stuck, faking injury because hes actually scared shitless
When's Francie gonna catch him to hit him? :D
He caught Mivkey Linden one day and he was supposedly the quickest about ;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:42:56 PM
He caught Mivkey Linden one day and he was supposedly the quickest about ;)
True.
But any referee not suffering from 98% blindness would have sent Bellew off for that.
For anyone that didn't see it, you could draw parallels with the shoulder your dirty Australian f**ker hit Coulter with in the International rules.
Very very dangerous, and he should have walked for it IMO.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:42:56 PM
He caught Mivkey Linden one day and he was supposedly the quickest about ;)
True.
But any referee not suffering from 98% blindness would have sent Bellew off for that.
For anyone that didn't see it, you could draw parallels with the shoulder your dirty Australian f**ker hit Coulter with in the International rules.
Very very dangerous, and he should have walked for it IMO.
At worst a mark in the black book. If you yellow out you get hurt.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 03:46:59 PM
For anyone that didn't see it, you could draw parallels with the shoulder your dirty Australian f**ker hit Coulter with in the International rules.
Very very dangerous, and he should have walked for it IMO.
I am not one for defending Cross wans but comparing a hefty shoulder with a forearm smash is a bit stupid.
Quote from: balladmaker on June 27, 2008, 03:42:23 PM
Quotesomeone will take them off their pedestal at some stage...all we're saying is why not Down?
Because Down are a pretty average side, who beat a pretty average Tyrone team at the second time of asking.
If Down did qualify for an Ulster final, it would be music to the ears of Fermanagh.
Ive have many fermanagh friends from uni and they all would rather play armagh in the final as they see them as big and slow like derry, they know they can beat derry...they see us as similar to themselves..their words not mine!
QuoteIve have many fermanagh friends from uni and they all would rather play armagh in the final as they see them as big and slow like derry, they know they can beat derry...they see us as similar to themselves..their words not mine!
Ah...they're only humouring ye!
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 03:46:59 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:42:56 PM
He caught Mivkey Linden one day and he was supposedly the quickest about ;)
True.
But any referee not suffering from 98% blindness would have sent Bellew off for that.
For anyone that didn't see it, you could draw parallels with the shoulder your dirty Australian f**ker hit Coulter with in the International rules.
Very very dangerous, and he should have walked for it IMO.
Now now Radio, Sour Grapes, it was a fair shoulder, it was just that Mickeys jaw was in the wrong place at the wrong time ;)
Quote from: balladmaker on June 27, 2008, 03:58:16 PM
QuoteIve have many fermanagh friends from uni and they all would rather play armagh in the final as they see them as big and slow like derry, they know they can beat derry...they see us as similar to themselves..their words not mine!
Ah...they're only humouring ye!
You calling fermanagh people liars! They're a very honest hard working down to earth bunch of people...couldn't bate them!
They were deadly serious I had a drink with them after the match last saturday nite...it has no impact on sundays result but just replying to mr smug earlier making his comment about fermanagh loving it if down beat armagh!
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
At worst a mark in the black book. If you yellow out you get hurt.
Linden had the ball ye tool.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 04:12:24 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 03:52:52 PM
At worst a mark in the black book. If you yellow out you get hurt.
Linden had the ball ye tool.
And your point being? Francie hit him a fair shoulder, it was Linden that spun out of it.
Quote from: corn02 on June 27, 2008, 03:54:31 PM
I am not one for defending Cross wans but comparing a hefty shoulder with a forearm smash is a bit stupid.
The two incidents are very much comparable...
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 04:13:27 PM
And your point being? Francie hit him a fair shoulder, it was Linden that spun out of it.
A fair shoulder in the face?
You obviously didn't see it did you? Or are you partially sighted like the referee was?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 04:15:48 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 27, 2008, 04:13:27 PM
And your point being? Francie hit him a fair shoulder, it was Linden that spun out of it.
A fair shoulder in the face?
You obviously didn't see it did you? Or are you partially sighted like the referee was?
Calm the jets their Radio, Yes you are right Mickey did have the ball, but i'll ye something for sure he didnt have it after the 50-50 shoulder, ;)
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 27, 2008, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 27, 2008, 03:54:31 PM
I am not one for defending Cross wans but comparing a hefty shoulder with a forearm smash is a bit stupid.
The two incidents are very much comparable...
No they are not, don't be silly now.
yous are talking about two different tackles the forearm smash was on jordan the tackle on coulter was a shoulder in the face the same as the one on linden
Are the mayobridge boys still crying about that.
Anyone looking tickets for sun?
Quote from: crossfire on June 27, 2008, 06:50:36 PM
Are the mayobridge boys still crying about that.
I'm definitely not from mayobridge.
The last time I saw the Armagh fans this confident was after they got beat by Donegal last year. For some reason they took a lot of confidence from a close defeat to the league champions. Down by 4.
Quote from: D4S on June 27, 2008, 03:16:34 PM
Armagh WILL NOT stay at the top forever, someone will take them off their pedestal at some stage...all we're saying is why not Down? You've a short memory things go in swings and roundabouts..when armagh won ulster in 1999 it ended our successful team of the 90s who won 2 all irelands in their short period at the top, maybe now we can end your successful spell before god forbid you get a 2nd all ireland out of this team that has been so successful for the last 9years!!
It must be a very small pedestal that is made out of one solitary All Ireland. :D
Quote from: crossfire on June 27, 2008, 06:50:36 PM
Are the mayobridge boys still crying about that.
not from mayobridge either but it was a disgrace to see that vinnie jones wannabe knock one the legends of the game teeth out and get away with it. justice will be done on sunday. GO ON BENNY
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
Onion Bag (bye the way imitation is the most sincere form of flattery). Anyway, I'm about to raise the ante.
I consider myself young at heart and still playing, albeit 3rds. In my life time we have secured 5, five, cuig, fünf, cinco, vijf, (I love the way most Arma folk I encounter have difficulty believing this digit exists). Unfortunately for you this is something I have that you nor none of your widest extended family will ever experience, but you can dream. Call it smug if you like but you cannot take it away from me. Stop talking about such great things already, you nor no one you know is qualified on these matters.
Still and all, we can be content to gift you Sunday's game safe in the knowledge that, should you bt Fermanagh, you will again raise anxiousness as representatives of Ulster GAA by bringing puke football on to the hallowed turf plus with the added recurring risk of Ulster humiliation, embarrassing and ignominious failure yet again. Accept it, this has been your history.
I was interested by one of your posts which mentioned Sligo v Down and the Murphy cup. I love this craic. Talk about leading with your chin? (I though Arma men were wilier that that).
I remember being at Croker (or in Arma's case Choker) when yous grasped a lucky draw from the clutches of victory against who? SLIGO. O ye of the goldfish memories.
Aye, its a hard oul station
Don't you just love when all these Down fans have found their voice again after being sooo quiet for the last number of years.....these are the same fans who stick with their team through thick and thin.....like they would never leave a match b4 its over or even HALF TIME,,nahh..best fans in the country thats what i say ;)
Quote from: hardstation on June 27, 2008, 09:59:23 PM
You're still playing at (at least) 48?
What's your opinion for Sunday,Hardstation?
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
Anyway, I'm about to raise the ante.
I consider myself young at heart and still playing, albeit 3rds. In my life time we have secured 5, five, cuig, fünf, cinco, vijf, (I love the way most Arma folk I encounter have difficulty believing this digit exists). Unfortunately for you this is something I have that you nor none of your widest extended family will ever experience, but you can dream. Call it smug if you like but you cannot take it away from me. Stop talking about such great things already, you nor no one you know is qualified on these matters.
Still and all, we can be content to gift you Sunday's game safe in the knowledge that, should you bt Fermanagh, you will again raise anxiousness as representatives of Ulster GAA by bringing puke football on to the hallowed turf plus with the added recurring risk of Ulster humiliation, embarrassing and ignominious failure yet again. Accept it, this has been your history.
I was interested by one of your posts which mentioned Sligo v Down and the Murphy cup. I love this craic. Talk about leading with your chin? (I though Arma men were wilier that that).
I remember being at Croker (or in Arma's case Choker) when yous grasped a lucky draw from the clutches of victory against who? SLIGO. O ye of the goldfish memories.
Excellent, excellent post :D
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
Onion Bag (bye the way imitation is the most sincere form of flattery). Anyway, I'm about to raise the ante.
I consider myself young at heart and still playing, albeit 3rds. In my life time we have secured 5, five, cuig, fünf, cinco, vijf, (I love the way most Arma folk I encounter have difficulty believing this digit exists). Unfortunately for you this is something I have that you nor none of your widest extended family will ever experience, but you can dream. Call it smug if you like but you cannot take it away from me. Stop talking about such great things already, you nor no one you know is qualified on these matters.
Still and all, we can be content to gift you Sunday's game safe in the knowledge that, should you bt Fermanagh, you will again raise anxiousness as representatives of Ulster GAA by bringing puke football on to the hallowed turf plus with the added recurring risk of Ulster humiliation, embarrassing and ignominious failure yet again. Accept it, this has been your history.
I was interested by one of your posts which mentioned Sligo v Down and the Murphy cup. I love this craic. Talk about leading with your chin? (I though Arma men were wilier that that).
I remember being at Croker (or in Arma's case Choker) when yous grasped a lucky draw from the clutches of victory against who? SLIGO. O ye of the goldfish memories.
Jesus. i'm embarrassed for you with that post
Quote from: hardstation on June 27, 2008, 10:04:34 PM
There's a thread for aul eejits like you. :D
Hardstarion,
What are these threads you seem so knownlegable about? Please share?
Uladh as embarassed as you were when Armagh lost in the All Ireland final, or should that be finals? :D
The all ireland finals record of old men won't save ye sunday
Ulagh,
May I humbly ask that you grant me the privilege of feeling embarrassed for my own posts. your feeling do not come into it.
Bye the bye, what exactly is your problem with what I have posted?
You might as well have just posted "i know your team is better than ours but we were better years ago. ya boo."
HardBus Stop.
Sorry I am not the type to visit dodgy sites
There are no old men playing on Sunday, this is the new breed. Win lose or draw we`ll play in the same old Down way, its done us no harm in the past, it may serve us well again in the future.
Could you just explain one little thing to me. What was it like standing in Croke Park in 2003 watchin Peter Canavan lift Sam. What was it like to stand there as a loser. Was it as bad as 77 or 53 ? Is it worse to lose to another Ulster team in an All Ireland final than it is to our southern counterparts? Just explain to us Down men what its like :D
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 10:53:29 PM
There are no old men playing on Sunday, this is the new breed. Win lose or draw we`ll play in the same old Down way, its done us no harm in the past, it may serve us well again in the future.
What is the all ireland record (that you are so interested in) of the "new breed"?
This "new breed" play football nothing like the down teams of ancient times.
people who fixate on the past have no confidence in the present but as you are so entranced with all ireland medals - there are only celtic crosses on one side on sunday.
Keep at them ITOB--they're sh.ting themselves
To Ulagh and that other boy respectively.
Why is a Tyronie and someboby from somewhere else so offended by pure fact? Its not as if I'm sayi Down are3 going to win or anthing like that. Are you having a bad night or something?
Please explain?
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 10:53:29 PM
There are no old men playing on Sunday, this is the new breed. Win lose or draw we`ll play in the same old Down way, its done us no harm in the past, it may serve us well again in the future.
What is the all ireland record (that you are so interested in) of the "new breed"?
This "new breed" play football nothing like the down teams of ancient times.
people who fixate on the past have no confidence in the present but as you are so entranced with all ireland medals - there are only celtic crosses on one side on sunday.
celtic crosses didnt help you much last year , your arrogance is quite the spectacle though
can imagine some down player ambling onto this site to check out the debate on the game. what does he find? his supporters can't make even half an argument for his team winning. just to remember that when they get their asses handed to them, don't forget the lads in the 60s were good!
Uladh while nit-picking my post you failed to answer some questions. I`ll put it in plain simple english, if thats too difficult for you I am sure hardstation could translate it to Irish for you.
What does it feel like losing an All Ireland Final? Maybe we in Down are a bit slow but no one has ever told us what its like. We all know you were there in `03 and you were probably there in `77. I was there for both, sadly I didnt make it in 1953, but i doubt you were there either. Come on Uladh tell us, we`re all dying to know ;D
Quote from: hardstation on June 27, 2008, 10:57:06 PM
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 10:53:04 PM
HardBus Stop.
Sorry I am not the type to visit dodgy sites
Hmm. Are you the type to get full drunk and post on here?
ITOB has got the Arma.. men wound up as well as our Antrim visitor
Quote from: hardstation on June 27, 2008, 10:57:06 PM
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 10:53:04 PM
HardBus Stop.
Sorry I am not the type to visit dodgy sites
Hmm. Are you the type to get full drunk and post on here?
Hardshit. Take a chill pill please before the nurses come. Consider yourself lucky I may (or may not be) pissed. Like the AI greatness, I mentioned in my first post, you will never know understand no matter how you try.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 27, 2008, 11:02:43 PM
celtic crosses didnt help you much last year , your arrogance is quite the spectacle though
Tus only the down men who can't make an argument interested in all ireland medals this week. ironic that they are oblivious to the fact that with the people who matter, there is only pedigree on one side.
none of that will matter when our lads do what has become the norm and saunter past the famous red and black.
when did down last beat armagh in a competitive game?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 11:03:58 PM
What does it feel like losing an All Ireland Final? Maybe we in Down are a bit slow but no one has ever told us what its like. We all know you were there in `03 and you were probably there in `77. I was there for both, sadly I didnt make it in 1953, but i doubt you were there either. Come on Uladh tell us, we`re all dying to know ;D
you must have missed my answer so -
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 10:57:27 PM
people who fixate on the past have no confidence in the present but as you are so entranced with all ireland medals - there are only celtic crosses on one side on sunday.
Come on... one of ye is bound to be able to make an argument for this current team. at least do them the service of trying lads...
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:03:46 PM
can imagine some down player ambling onto this site to check out the debate on the game. what does he find? his supporters can't make even half an argument for his team winning. just to remember that when they get their asses handed to them, don't forget the lads in the 60s were good!
The only person get their ass handed to them is you Uladh, on this thread, you are fighting a lone battle.
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:06:40 PM
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 27, 2008, 11:02:43 PM
celtic crosses didnt help you much last year , your arrogance is quite the spectacle though
Tus only the down men who can't make an argument interested in all ireland medals this week. ironic that they are oblivious to the fact that with the people who matter, there is only pedigree on one side.
none of that will matter when our lads do what has become the norm and saunter past the famous red and black.
when did down last beat armagh in a competitive game?
what are you talkin about u big ejit, our key players are minor all ireland medalists, we have u21 all iireland finalists on the bench and paul mc comiskey was noted for being one of the top young players in the country. enough pedigree to put u late comers of championship glory in your place
being surrounded by blubbering idiots on a down thread is nothing new sir. i am serene in the knowledge that there ain't an articulate nor thoughtful cell amongst you. we got 5 all irelands in the 40s so we'll win sunday. that'll work.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 27, 2008, 11:10:20 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:06:40 PM
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 27, 2008, 11:02:43 PM
celtic crosses didnt help you much last year , your arrogance is quite the spectacle though
Tus only the down men who can't make an argument interested in all ireland medals this week. ironic that they are oblivious to the fact that with the people who matter, there is only pedigree on one side.
none of that will matter when our lads do what has become the norm and saunter past the famous red and black.
when did down last beat armagh in a competitive game?
what are you talkin about u big ejit, our key players are minor all ireland medalists, we have u21 all iireland finalists on the bench and paul mc comiskey was noted for being one of the top young players in the country. enough pedigree to put u late comers of championship glory in your place
so nothing byond schoolboy football then?
Ulagh,
You are missing the point. We gentle Done folk accept our fate. Only glad we will not shame ourselves later on in the usual Arma fashion
noone is in school when theyre u21. held back a few years were u?? would make sense
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:11:45 PM
being surrounded by blubbering idiots on a down thread is nothing new sir. i am serene in the knowledge that there ain't an articulate nor thoughtful cell amongst you. we got 5 all irelands in the 40s so we'll win sunday. that'll work.
noones saying wer goin to win cause we have 5 all irelands and you have one, we are jus belittling your claim to be the superior county, is short memory the reason you were held back in school an extra 3 years??
:D
pair of Idiots. this was easier than i expected. my work here is done
Hardstation. Keep taking the pills they will work eventually
I love fishing on a Friday
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:16:36 PM
:D
pair of Idiots. this was easier than i expected. my work here is done
what a poor reply. saying nothing would have been better for you
Uladh, I feel for you, I really do. While a lot of the posters on this thread will be meeting up for a few pints in various pubs around Clones, you`ll be sitting at home watching the game on the telly with yer mammy. Maybe you`ll spot your oul mate Tony Fearon in the crowd and that might make your day.
Uladh you still havent answerd my question, go on, we`re all waiting, forget 53 and 77 just tell us about 2003. Forget wee peters speech and all that. Give us it from the heart Uladh, what was it like. Losing to tyrone? Will losing on Sunday be worse or maybe winning will take away some of the pain. Come on Uladh we`ll all be friends if you just tell us. :D
Jeysus,
Armagh were easy batin in this row. Hope they are so easy on Sunday.
Should'nt get so hopeful though. Although my Friday fishing was good but I think I only caught tiddlers, (no offence Ulagh and Hardwhatever).
Good night and god bless all on this board.
Looks like Uladhs not playing anymore ::) Must be past his bedtime.
Quote from: Uladh on June 27, 2008, 11:16:36 PM
my work here is done
A womans work is never done Uladh :D
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 11:37:15 PM
Looks like Uladhs not playing anymore ::) Must be past his bedtime.
maybe someone who knows him took his computer off him before he did any more damage to his countys followers credability
Did they ever have any credibility ;)
good point! if they did it was for a very short time and noone else knew a thing about it
I see Ross Carr said to TV3's championship show that Armagh are one of top 2 or 3 teams in the country.
He's as bad with the mind games as most of this thread!
Drinking and posting should be banned!
For down to have a realistic chance tomorrow they'll need to score 2-3 goals. mcdonnell and clarke will bag at least one and armagh will kick 10-12 points minimum. i can't see down scoring 12 points never mind 15. much will depend on armagh's ability to take he ball off down because i believe down have a greater ball winning capacity around the middle. armagh 2-13, down 1-09.
dodgy umpire, Down Gael and In the Onion Bag were obviously on the beer and represent the confused element of the modern down supporter. i fail to see how you can take comfort in not being very good now by lamenting better days.
Quote from: Malone Aristocrat on June 28, 2008, 08:31:42 AM
dodgy umpire, Down Gael and In the Onion Bag were obviously on the beer and represent the confused element of the modern down supporter. i fail to see how you can take comfort in not being very good now by lamenting better days.
I certainly wouldnt describe myself as an element of the modern supporter, far from it. I am a lifelong pioneer. Why drink when you can get as much craic talking the piss out of the likes of Uladh. Looks like he got the message last night anyway, hopefully he`ll get the same message tomorrow in Clones ;)
Trying to decipher the message you're trying to get across, i'd have to agree that only being able to talk about former glories is an attempt to disguise the lack of quality the current team has.
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:07:16 AM
hopefully he`ll get the same message tomorrow in Clones ;)
That will probably still be the message.
Oh yes, the current Down team lacks quality. Liam Doyle, All ireland minor winning captain in 1999, probably playing his best football to date. Dan Gordon, lorded it at midfield over a highly fancied Tyrone side. Sexton and Murtagh another of the 1999 side. Benny Coulter, well he hardly needs an introduction. Daniel Hughes another fine footballer. Ambrose rodgers finally living up to the name, probably turned the game against Tyrone. Paul Murphy, now free from injury, I can now see why the Ballyholland men rated him so highly, was Dooher playing? Paul McComiskey, probably the most exciting young player in the country at the minute. John Clarke, Downs top scorer in the league, very intelligent footballer. Another of the 99 team. Yes we really lack quality ;). A managment duo with not 1, but 2 All Irelands. How many Armagh men can say that. Tomorrows games is a game between a more skilful, fast moving Down side against a team not really renowned for skill, a team more known for its brute force and ignornace approach to football. Armagh may smother Downs game tomorrow, but we will never sink to your level.
In saying that Armagh have some very talented players on their team. McDonnell is one of the best forwards in the country with Clarke not far behind, but Armagh werent tested in their previous game. Cavan were so poor they made McGrane look good, that says more about Cavan than it does about Armagh.
FFS, all these new down posters coming out of the woodwork for the big game ::)
If you lose, no doubt it will be a 'sure we are only a young team etc etc'
Can any 'honest' down poster say they expect to win tomorrow?
BTW, lay off uladh ye bunch of inbreds :D
cavan made mc grane look good?? He's armagh most needed player this year. How many allstars have down got and ulster titles and all ireland medals in this team? i hope armagh destroy a very average down team.
Quote from: full back on June 28, 2008, 11:05:53 AM
BTW, lay off uladh ye bunch of inbreds :D
Isnt Uladh the result of inbreeding?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
Liam Doyle, All ireland minor winning captain in 1999, probably playing his best football to date.
What has he done in about 8 years as a senior intercounty footballer?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
Dan Gordon, lorded it at midfield over a highly fancied Tyrone side.
highly fancied by who? any tyrone man will tell you they are at a low ebb with injuries and irrespective have one of the worst midfields in the country. catch yerself on.
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
Sexton and Murtagh another of the 1999 side. Benny Coulter, well he hardly needs an introduction.
coulter has produced flashes of brilliance but what have the other two done in more than 5 years of senior county football?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
Ambrose rodgers finally living up to the name.
Paul Murphy, now free from injury, I can now see why the Ballyholland men rated him so highly
Yet neither could get a start for the championship opener
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
Paul McComiskey, probably the most exciting young player in the country at the minute.
not even on the team
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
John Clarke, Downs top scorer in the league, very intelligent footballer. Another of the 99 team.
another schoolboy protege who has done absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
A managment duo with not 1, but 2 All Irelands.
is this the same management who were barracked through the league campaign by their own supporters and who the county board are maneuvering to replace?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 10:53:24 AM
How many Armagh men can say that. Tomorrows games is a game between a more skilful, fast moving Down side against a team not really renowned for skill, a team more known for its brute force and ignornace approach to football.
Yeah thats true because the clatter of ulster, all ireland and national league medals have, not to mention all stars are handed out for fcuk all.
catch a grip and make a decent argument.
Down are a fast, fit and mobile outfit who have potentially as good a forward line as is in the country. the work extremely hard and make life very uncomfortable for their opponents. if they can sustain 70 minutes of the intensity they produced in newry last week then they have a real chance. before that, subduing clarke and McDonnell and at least breaking even around the middle are the two platforms down have to focus on to allow their forwards to have a good rattle at armagh.
Quote from: full back on June 28, 2008, 11:05:53 AM
FFS, all these new down posters coming out of the woodwork for the big game ::)
If you lose, no doubt it will be a 'sure we are only a young team etc etc'
Can any 'honest' down poster say they expect to win tomorrow?
What a fuckin stupid comment! Down posters coming out of the woodwork...sure isnt our team only coming out of the woodwork! Did you want us on here the past couple of years giving our input on armagh v donegal, and tyrone v derry etc...We would have been laughed at and told to f**k off! Yes the volume of down posts is of course going to go up when we are still in the championship!
And honestly I do think we can win tomorrow, if you look back through my posts you will see I predicted we would win by a point against tyrone after extratime in a replay...this time I predict we'll do it first day out
Down 1-12 Armagh 0-13
Quote from: Malone Aristocrat on June 28, 2008, 11:32:35 AM
Yeah thats true because the clatter of ulster, all ireland and national league medals have, not to mention all stars are handed out for fcuk all.
A clatter of All Irelands and National Leagues? Since when did
1 of anything make a clatter of anything?
1 All ireland and lets be honest, Kerry lost it more than Armagh won it and
1 National League, does anyone know who won this years League or moreover does anyone care. Catch yourself of FFS.
QuoteWhat a fuckin stupid comment! Down posters coming out of the woodwork...sure isnt our team only coming out of the woodwork!
So Down didn't play any matches in 06 or 07? Genuine supporters support their team no matter how they're doing.
QuoteA managment duo with not 1, but 2 All Irelands.
Your last manager was an All Ireland winning captain but was still driven out by your supporters.
Ya havta love Mourne folk. All their success, all their All Irelands, wins against Kerry, unbeaten record in AI finals, yet no matter how much success they've had, they simply can't stand it when their poor unillustrous neighbours rule the roost over them for a few years. Most counties would look at it as a minor inconvenience but for Down people, nothing bothers them more. There's a generation of supporters who, for most of the time when they have been attending intercounty matches, Armagh have been superior to Down. We've enjoyed the last decade and, with a wee bit of luck, we might even be fit to extend it for another year.
Just another thought that's struck me, the first time I was ever told by Down man that we were on the way down and they'd pass us out on the way back up was at the Ulster final in Clones in 2002. They've been waiting a few years yet and might even have to wait another year or two. Still yis have your 5 All Irelands lads.
Quote from: Down Gael on June 28, 2008, 12:09:05 PM
Quote from: Malone Aristocrat on June 28, 2008, 11:32:35 AM
Yeah thats true because the clatter of ulster, all ireland and national league medals have, not to mention all stars are handed out for fcuk all.
A clatter of All Irelands and National Leagues? Since when did 1 of anything make a clatter of anything? 1 All ireland and lets be honest, Kerry lost it more than Armagh won it and 1 National League, does anyone know who won this years League or moreover does anyone care. Catch yourself of FFS.
eh, there'll be about 8 all ireland, 16 national league and about 70 ulster medals rattling around the armagh dressing room
Jeysus yous Arma wans need to relax a bit. Why are you all gettin so uptight - sure its only Down you play 2moro. I have zero hopes for a Down win (as my previous posts will confirm) see the copy below.
QUOTE: "I am going to the match as a proud Down man. I am already satisfied because our boys will be pleased to for the chance to grace the same pitch as these Arma greats. After all look at Arma's achievements?
Down cannot realistically expect to match McGrane in midfield, McDonnell and Clarke upfront and wow betide us if Francie starts in defense. We should just satisfy ourselves by enjoying our day out, enjoy a few beers, the craic and bask in the reflective glow of the Arma titans as they steam roller over us. Look what Arma's achievements since history began in 2002 (or was it 03 - doesn't matter, just a flash in the pan really).
To be well trashed and by this superior Arma team is an honour and right we have earned and we should be glad for it.
Ps: I plan to take a detour on the way home and stop at the Cross to congratulate Arma on their fine win. Maybe meet a few of you there for a friendly pint?" (END QUOTE)
Now, could a Down man be humble more than that? On a more serious note though. I am a really bad traveller and will need to break up the journey to Clones. Wonder if there are any Sth Arma Samaritans out there who would put me up for the night?
You could stay here. At least they would keep you away from the drink.
(http://www.southerntrust.hscni.net/images/St%20Lukes.jpg)
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on June 28, 2008, 12:26:08 PM
QuoteWhat a fuckin stupid comment! Down posters coming out of the woodwork...sure isnt our team only coming out of the woodwork!
So Down didn't play any matches in 06 or 07? Genuine supporters support their team no matter how they're doing.
What a dick you are :o :o
I f u read my whole post you would see I was referring to the volume of post here which is obviously likely to increase if we are still in the championship..which we hadn't been in previous years!!! I went to as many national league games this year I could get to and I was at 4mckenna cup matches! You say how genuine supporters support their team no matter how well they are doing...Where were all the armagh supporters last year when you got beat in ballybofey!! They attendance of armagh support that day was a disgrace!!! 1st round game in omagh this year was probably 60-40 tyrone support...ballybofey last year was a joke as you wren't expected to win..the support was about 90-10 in favor of donegal!
Quote from: SouthArmaghBandit on June 28, 2008, 12:55:30 PM
You could stay here. At least they would keep you away from the drink.
(http://www.southerntrust.hscni.net/images/St%20Lukes.jpg)
I believe Uladh`s room is free this weekend, maybe he would rent it out for the night. he could buy a few more bottles of buckie for the lads before the game ;)
QuoteWhat a dick you are
I f u read my whole post you would see I was referring to the volume of post here which is obviously likely to increase if we are still in the championship..which we hadn't been in previous years!!! I went to as many national league games this year I could get to and I was at 4mckenna cup matches! You say how genuine supporters support their team no matter how well they are doing...Where were all the armagh supporters last year when you got beat in ballybofey!! They attendance of armagh support that day was a disgrace!!! 1st round game in omagh this year was probably 60-40 tyrone support...ballybofey last year was a joke as you wren't expected to win..the support was about 90-10 in favor of donegal!
Come on D4S, you're from a county that's won 5 All Irelands. Don't be letting people from insignificant little counties with only 1 All Ireland annoy you.
Quotethe support was about 90-10 in favor of donegal
Accuracy clearly isn't your strong point.
80-20 then at best! Just trying to illustrate my point...you said about supporting all the time..I was saying where were yous last year when you weren't fancied in ballybofey???
Swings and Roundabouts my friend! Some people have short memories!
This thread has disintegrated into crap. Compared to the Down Tyrone thread a few weeks ago it lags way behind. What happened to proper discussion? The behaviour of the majority of posters of late in getting into silly arguments has served to discourage the more knowledgeable and insightful posters from saying anything at all. FFS lads sort it out. Down to win 2-11 to 0-15.
Quote from: Minus15 on June 28, 2008, 02:25:03 PM
This thread has disintegrated into crap. Compared to the Down Tyrone thread a few weeks ago it lags way behind. What happened to proper discussion? The behaviour of the majority of posters of late in getting into silly arguments has served to discourage the more knowledgeable and insightful posters from saying anything at all. FFS lads sort it out. Down to win 2-11 to 0-15.
I know I have been part of the backbiting but jesus it's hard not to when you read some of the drivel! I have been thinking exactly what you said how it doesnt compare to the tyrone-down thread...there were 91 pages i think over the 2matches. But it probably goes to show the rivalry between the 2 counties how much it annoys people when the other county says anything against the opposing team, or supporters, or honours etc. There is fierce reaction! I'll give my prediction again as I like how it loks when I write it...this is probably the 6th time ive wrote it on this thread!
Down 1-12 Armagh 0-13
Having read with interest the posts on the Down v Armagh game on Sunday, i am sure i could be forgiven for thinking i had logged onto another site (h_ganstand), any chance of a little bit of intelligent/constructive debate or am i asking too much?
should we make much of this coulter groin problem?
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 28, 2008, 02:45:20 PM
should we make much of this coulter groin problem?
He does genuinely have a niggly groin strain but he'll definitely still play and I don't think it'll hamper him too much..he has played through the pain barrier for his club and county before.
with that in mind would playin him at centre half be such a good idea, he would have to run as much in the FF line?
* wouldnt have to run as much
Coulter strikes me as the type of lad that would play no matter what.
Was it the county final or Ulster club that he appeared in and he could hardly f**king walk.
We just have to keep the ball away from him
true hes a mans man, not one of these spice boys with the white boots and socks pulled up. would hope for a big game outa john clarke tomro, see suma that league form. apparently the game is gonna be delayed by 15 mins due to the 36 000 strong crowd
Coulter came on in the county final last year in the replay against longstone, and only for coulter coming on and scoring his goal for them to win by 2points, it would have been longstones day! He played with a bad injury and through taking injections for the pain supposedly, all because he wanted mayobridge to win 4 county titles in a row...You have to respect him!
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 28, 2008, 03:07:36 PM
would hope for a big game outa john clarke tomro, see suma that league form.
Seen Clarke in the Div 1 league final & he looked good before he was sent off for fcuk all
Havent seen him do much in the championship yet though
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 28, 2008, 03:07:36 PM
apparently the game is gonna be delayed by 15 mins due to the 36 000 strong crowd
Is it really a sell out? I was thinkin there might be 30000 there but didnt think it would be a sellout! Hope it is the atmosphere would be electric if the bloody rain stays away and we're not all soaked ala omagh 2005!
A draw: Armagh 0-15 Down 2-9
Danny Murphy was quoted in the papers this week that they had set the capacity at 33,000 and that they expected to sell all those tickets
QuoteCoulter strikes me as the type of lad that would play no matter what.
Was it the county final or Ulster club that he appeared in and he could hardly f**king walk.
We just have to keep the ball away from him
It is poor management that allows a man who can hardly walk to play in a game!
I thought Coulter was not at his fittest in the replay against Tyrone, he seemed to be hampered by something.
Just listened to Martin McHugh on Radio Uladh on the way home. Unsurprisingly he is going for Armagh. Thinks they have too much experience for this Down team.
Pete McGrath on RTE went for Down, and of course he is unbiased. In any case may the best team win. Given the weather I would say only one thing whether you are from Armagh, Down or anywhere else
Leave your f***ing umbrella at home.
QuoteLeave your f***ing umbrella at home.
Well said that man! If you don't want to get wet wear a coat with a hood!
I have really enjoyed the banter on this thread.
To those of you 'superior brains' on this thread seeking intellectual, cultured debate and taking it all too seriously, I say wise up and take a reality check. Its only a game between two amateur teams (albeit Counties who love to hate each other).
Do you really think the crap you put on here makes a difference? If you are in doubt about this I can solve it for you. Get back in touch with a real life.
I genuinely agree with armaghniac's advice "don't take umbrellas". I'm on the terrace and if someone stands in front of you with one its a real a piss off which usually takes cross words to resolve.
I also think the banter on this thread is ending the proper way. Both sets of supporters are now settling down and looking forward to what, hopefully will be a really good entertaining and competitive game. This is all I am hoping for. My only fear is that Down will fold under the Arma's superior presence.
PS- I am still looking for a bed in Sth Arma 2more nite to break my journey. Any one help me out?
Very well said ITOB. Some of the posters with a high post count think their views are more important than us lesser mortals. Its a bit of crack. A wind up, only people like Uladh think this is reality. maybe its all the poor lad has, who knows?
Anyway, enjoy the game, win lose or draw we`ll all shake hands afterwards and head for a few drinks. I will have my umbrella with me tomorrow. Just in case.
awful amount of shite talked on this thread, from both sides!! just getting ready to go to clones, hopefully the match lives up to its hype. there won't be a kick of the ball in it, but i have a feeling that down will win it. Big Ambrose to get man of match, he has been playin now for down like he has been playin for the stone, thats only a good thing!! Down by 1.
Have to go for Down in this one and hope that Tyrone minors can take Cavan. Hope the rain stays away also.
Would appreciate help with following: what radio station(s) will be broadcasting the game. Thanks!!
Quote from: woodfield on June 29, 2008, 12:56:05 PM
Would appreciate help with following: what radio station(s) will be broadcasting the game. Thanks!!
You'l get a bit of coverage from rte, think www.highlandradio.com will have the whole thing on radio. check out thread about internet access.
Expect a draw today; with Armagh getting a last second equaliser, then they'll (Armagh) pull clear in the replay.
Serious traffic in Monaghan Clones today, looks like there'll be a big attendance.
Hope Down can really put it up to them. Aaron Kernan out apparently.
Armagh 0-1 Down 0-0
Paddy McKeever misses free
Armagh 0-1 Down 0-1 (Danny Hughes) 10mins
Armagh 0-2 Down 0-1 (Ronan Clarke) 10mins
Half-time: Armagh 1-05, Down 0-05. Armagh well on top for most of it, but Down battling well late on. Liam Doyle off for Down with a knee injury.
shooting is brutal, is wind that bad
Quote from: joemamas on June 29, 2008, 04:41:07 PM
shooting is brutal, is wind that bad
After a feed of beans it can be murder!
Was a second yellow. Probably right.
Armagh 1-8 Down 0-9 (about 15mins to go)
Armagh 1-9 Down 0-9
Awful game. Armagh miles better.
due to really unforseen circumstances, couldn't get to game. listen armagh were better team, i'm sure some armagh ones will be on here gloating(why not). down were never really in the game, and anyone that says armagh are not contenders for all ireland are completly wrong. MOR was harsly sent off, f**k me anytime you foul somebody your booked!! hopefully down will bounce back for qualifers.
QUESTION?? can down meet tyrone again in qualifier??
Did you see the heck of the interviews with McGrane, McDonnell and Clarke after the match on the BBC? The BBC must have employed the Chuckle Brothers to put up the advertising banner behind them. Some craic.
Awful game, ball handling atrocious.
hard to see either of being involved come late august.
Cannot but have a lot of admiration for Stephen Macdonnell. I hope he plays until he is 38.
Down's lack of good forwards cost them, why can we not shoot from 30 yards out? Why cant Benny turn it on when needed?
Defence and midfield held up well. Thought the ref was too fond of the book.
Quote from: joemamas on June 29, 2008, 05:51:36 PM
Awful game, ball handling atrocious.
hard to see either of being involved come late august.
Cannot but have a lot of admiration for Stephen Macdonnell. I hope he plays until he is 38.
armagh will be there late august! they won't blow teams away, they'll beat them by 2/3 points, thats what there all about.
ya's can slag off both teams, somehow or another i get the feeling the two teams will be there come august!!!! IMO
Quote from: hardstation on June 29, 2008, 05:48:50 PM
Quote from: bridgegael on June 29, 2008, 05:44:31 PM
QUESTION?? can down meet tyrone again in qualifier??
I think so, yes. Open to correction on that though.
Ay totally open draw though Tyrone are going to get Derry.
SPIRIT!! what do you want benny to do??win his own ball and then kick it in to himself?? theres more than him on the team!!! as usual the best players get the blame when their team doesn't win. PS your a bad umpire!!!!!!
our forwards were very poor and only for Carr taking the frees kept in touch, Doyle's injury was a big factor, he would have landed at least three of the frees we missed. We all probably expect Benny to play the way he does at club level, awesome, and get carried away, he is obviously carrying a injury though.
Always great to see Down put in their place.
I bet all Irelands fifty years ago was some confort on the way out the gate :D
Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 29, 2008, 06:17:39 PM
Always great to see Down put in their place.
I bet all Irelands fifty years ago was some confort on the way out the gate :D
pints, fair play armagh won fair and square, but f**k me some people are bad winners!!!
i know some Down ones were one here talking shite, fair majority of down folk will say Armagh won fair and square.
holy f**k!! this is what i hate already few down ones talkin bout, 'he or him' shouldn't' be on!! were were these 'supporters' when we played limerick/fermanagh in the league!! anyone the says any intercounty player is shite, shoud realise these boys give a lot of their time and effort!!!!!! all the best to armagh!
Quote from: bridgegael on June 29, 2008, 06:56:10 PM
holy f**k!! this is what i hate already few down ones talkin bout, 'he or him' shouldn't' be on!! were were these 'supporters' when we played limerick/fermanagh in the league!! anyone the says any intercounty player is shite, shoud realise these boys give a lot of their time and effort!!!!!! all the best to armagh!
Think your out of order mate, this is a discussion board in case you forgot.
Thought it was a poor enough game today with Armagh full value for their win. Thought McKeever was excellent today on coulter. Ref was very poor although I have no complaints about O Rourke getting sent off. Both teams will have to improve to challenge for honours this year. Also thought Stephen Kernan had as good a game as I have seen from him today
Quote from: David McKeown on June 29, 2008, 08:06:48 PM
Thought it was a poor enough game today with Armagh full value for their win. Thought McKeever was excellent today on coulter. Ref was very poor although I have no complaints about O Rourke getting sent off. Both teams will have to improve to challenge for honours this year. Also thought Stephen Kernan had as good a game as I have seen from him today
Armagh are still the class of the field in Ulster and are only going to get better. Why MOR was playing in the second half is beyond me as he looked like it wasnt going to take much more until he got his marching orders.
We squandered a lot of chances today and still won handily enough. Fermanagh are a lively outfit and they will be ready to go on Ulster Final day given that they have never won the Ulster.
Down were what I thought they were, an improved team who have potential but one that would be unable to get past any team with a decent shot at winning the AI, Down are at best a lower second tier team which is a marked improvement on where they have been since the early nineties.
Down needed Liam Doyle and Benny Coulter firing on all cylinders, and that they did not have.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on June 29, 2008, 08:28:11 PM
Down needed Liam Doyle and Benny Coulter firing on all cylinders, and that they did not have.
Agree totally but as we have been saying for the last number of years its about time the others stepped up to the plate. Yes Liam and Benny are two of the most quality ball players in the modern game but if we are honest we are carring a few who dont seem to want to roll the sleeves up when the pressure is on. IMO hughes, murtagh rafferty etc, have all had too many chances and although still young have been great servants, however, is there any others in the county that could replace them?
Quotean improved team who have potential but one that would be unable to get past any team with a decent shot at winning the AI
::)
A Team that won..........................how many Championship games last year, are now in with a decent shot at the AI?????? Kerry would have put double between them and Down.
Fair play to Armagh - seasoned campaigners who gave Benny the "treatment" and Down's attack floundered after that - 2 points from play in 70 - 75 minutes football from Doown tells it all.
Down never looked in the game today at all, not at one stage did i think they were able to win the game after the first 5mins.
Both teams hit a few bad wides, the referee was pretty poor also.
After the helter skelter game against Tyrone, this was back down to earth with a bump.
though was poor game today. mor acting the idiot 2day hardly saw that coming!! clarke gave dan mccarten a torrid time why did carr not change this?thugh mckeever had a good game and mallon did well on mccomiskey when came on!
some idiots at the game 2day. my mate saw 2 lads beating eachother around 1330 and there was a few people put out of the hill i think 4 same reason.
Quote from: tyroneman on June 29, 2008, 08:40:22 PM
Quotean improved team who have potential but one that would be unable to get past any team with a decent shot at winning the AI
::)
A Team that won..........................how many Championship games last year, are now in with a decent shot at the AI?????? Kerry would have put double between them and Down.
Funny, I didnt know that Kerry played in the Ulster championship!
Armagh lost both championship matches last year by a single point, does an off year automatically preclude you from winning the AI the following year?????
Armagh are in with a decent shot at winning the AI, they are a quality team who will put it up to any team with the possible exception of Kerry. At this stage they have won two games, dominated posession for the most part and have been let down by some poor shooting, in other words they havent hit their stride yet and are comfortably in the Ulster final.
Tyrone to me are still a threat in the AI series, they are a class outfit who can beat anyone on their day. I think your Tyrone bias has terminally affected your judgement when it comes to your neighbours across the Blackwater. :-[
QuoteReferee was very inconsistent and picky. Kept Down in the game at times with soft frees.
Agree...I thought the ref gave Down numerous handy frees that kept them in touch with Armagh. I was just waiting for Down to get near the penalty area and that ref would definitely have given a penalty given half a chance.
For GAA to be a contact sport, referees such as the one today (and McEneaney in Newry 2 weeks ago) are doing their best to prevent contact of any sort.
Armagh good value for their win but big improvement is needed. Although, they will have plenty of opportunity to improve in the coming games. I think they have the potential to go a long way in this years championship.
Armagh deserved to win today, much better team on the day. We missed Liam Doyle as a left footed free taker. Down dominated midfield for long periods but failed to put the scores on the board.
Thought o`Rourke deserved to go, but the sending off lifted Armagh when Down were beginning to get back into the game. Down failed to use the extra man, I thought we should have threw caution to the wind and used an extra attacker in the last 10 or 15 minutes, rather than defend a 3 point defecit ???
I thought the difference between the sides should have been bigger. Armagh have a top class FF line, a decent midfield but a defense that could lose a big game for them for persistant fouling.
The kit is terrible though. Half of the players look totally unfit because of it.
Down will be disappointed but I think they are coming good again and will do very well in a year or two.
very poor game 2day, Down never got started! I cant understand what Ross was thinking about leavin Dan Mc on the that long, got roasted! Benny is def. not fully fit and shuld have been played closer to goal! Armagh very strong and organized as expected!
There shouldn't be really any complaints from Down - they were beat by a well drilled and seasoned if sometimes cynical Armagh side who will give a lot of trouble this year to most teams.
Quote from: muppet on June 29, 2008, 09:10:33 PM
The kit is terrible though. Half of the players look totally unfit because of it.
Which Kit? What you on about man?
Poor enough game where Armagh pulled awat when they needed to. Thought Brian Mallon made a big difference when he came on! thought Defence was sound throughout! very hardworking and never looked under real threat! The game bypassed midfield and for the life of me I cannot understand why they stopped kicking the ball into Clarke and Stevie. Jesus they were destroying them!
MOM for me was Clarke follwed very very closely by Ciaran McKeever
Down didnt have a plan B
Armagh well worth their win and was a carbon copy of Cavan: Done what they had to do with no big fuss!
Referee was a complete joke!
A combination of experience and cynicism won the match for Armagh today.
There is no doubting the class of Clarke and McDonnell, and that Armagh's defence is well-organised and physically imposing. they also move the ball forward quite quickly and efficiently.
But they did get cleaned out at midfield for 50 odd minutes today, and it's truly remarkable that a team cleaned out at midfield could only concede 2-3 scores from play. Except it's not. Down may have flapped around a bit, but they were also taken out by the roots before a third pass could ever hit a teammate.
I haven't seen a defence collectively spoil a team so well since Derry put a barbed wire wall in front of Tyrone in 2006.
I'm not complaining by the way. Fair dues to the orange men, they knew what they had to do, and they did it.
I wish though that their supporters (leaving the ground, and now on here) would stop complaining about the referee penalising them so much. Here's a basic lesson in mathematics Armagh fans: the more often you foul, the more frees you will concede. And from the 20th minute onwards today, all your team did was foul. Down weren't weak-bodied and the referee wasn't soft.
Once again Tyroneman proves he has no GAA knowledge, good work again. I look forward to you making an idiot of yourself again soon.
Thoughts on the match.
A team that dominates midfield, plays against 14 for half the match and has the referee gifting them free and still looses by four are a poor team. Very dissapointing.
I thought MOR deserved the second yellow but everyone I spoke to disagreed.
Gordon was superb, a good run in the qualifiers and it is all-star time, excellent display.
Coulter was in McKeever's pocket for 70 minutes. A real display from the Cullyhanna man.
Clarke won EVERY ball ahead of McCartan, he did not even break one.
Wobbler any Down man who disagrees with the fact they got soft frees is living in dreamland.
To the Down fans with the sign slagging McConvilles gambling habit - classy
To the Armagh fans booing every free and cheering every wide - well done
Attended today's game as a neutral (a genuine neutral this time - applauding good moves and scores from both sides!).
I have to say, i think the ref did a decent job and was well on top of the game. Armagh fans boo'ed a lot of his decisions (maybe just more noticeable as they were the larger/more vocal set of supporters), but he was bang on for most of them. And I'm not in the habit of praising a Cavan man!
As for the game, Armagh were always on top and deserved winners. Down never looked like getting anywhere near the goal, despite doing pretty well in midfield. As someone said already, a good run in the qualifiers and Dan Gordon would be an allstar nominee. He would be a household name by this stage if he played for any of the bigger teams in the country.
It's not dreamland Corn. Armagh's tactic was to deliberately prevent Down from gaining any momentum, by whatever means necessary. Down were rarely allowed to get any pace on the ball, having been pulled out by the roots before they could accelerate. As a result there were very few big hits. But almost every one of their frees was a foul. Maybe you folks don't agree, and maybe you're right; maybe our amateur GAA players should have to semi-decapitated before winning a free. The rulebook doesn't see it that way though.
Well done Arma. It became evident there would be one winner in this game from the early stages.
Clarke and McDonnell are top class acts. The Arma defense was so well organised that Down never looked like getting a break.
Still, I am content as I predicted much worst for Down. To come within two kicks of a good Arma team at this stage is progress.
I do not fancy our chances in the qualifiers though as Down do not do back doors very well even though I think this team's development would benefit greatly from a good back door run.
When will Armagh learn?
They'll be appearing in their 7th Ulster Final in 10 years, having won the other 6. Yet only one Sam, and that was with 2 replays.
Armagh's best football was played in 2003 when they were playing regularly. Sitting on their hole for 5 weeks out of 7 is a disastrous scenario for a side like Armagh that lack natural pace and rely on brute strength.
Congratulations to Armagh, who had the physique and the quality in key areas to give them the edge on the day and continue their amazing record against us. We have lost every competitive match against them in the championship, league and McKenna Cup since I think 1994. They expect to beat us and it showed today.
We had to get a goal to stand a chance, and Hearty did not really have a save to make. In our last attack of the first half, we had two men free but a pass which I think was from Murphy went astray and the chance was lost. The big problem today was our attack, rather than, as most of us had feared, the defence. Our starting six forwards today got a total of two points from play, which will never win any game.
Armagh, by contrast, could easily have had other goals, although the one they got owed a lot to Doyle's injury.It's easy to be wise after the event, and he is a very important player for us, but he was clearly struggling, with what looked like a hamstring, and Armagh would probably not have got the goal if he had been replaced immediately.
The only criticism I would make of Armagh would be over the repeated follow-through on a man who had just played the ball. It happened throughout the match, and O'Rourke could have few complaints about his red card.
When he walked, we were clearly in with a chance. We did not take it, and we were not quite good enough on the day.
I actually thought Luke Howard had a good game 2day. McDonnell got to the ball first on every occasion but how many times did he pass Howard? Think it's the 1st time in a long time he's been kept scoreless from play.
Quote from: The Corporal on June 29, 2008, 10:45:07 PM
I actually thought Luke Howard had a good game 2day. McDonnell got to the ball first on every occasion but how many times did he pass Howard? Think it's the 1st time in a long time he's been kept scoreless from play.
have to agree, young howard had a good game along with gordon and rodgers. maybe time to give benny a rest let him recover from his nocks and strains. was a pity we insisted on giving hospital handpasses all day
well done Armagh, you deserved your win. Now this may sound like sour grapes, but i assure you all it is not. If i were an Armagh man, i would be seriously concerned that for extremely long periods you were held scoreless by an under-performing Down team. The failure to fully utilise your excellent FF line, the number of frees you are conceding. On todays performance i would very confidently expect Fermanagh to be crowned Ulster champions, if there is not a marked improvement in your play.
Down defense was not physically strong enough. McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long. Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball. Was like minors against seniors.
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 29, 2008, 11:16:27 PM
Down defense was not physically strong enough. McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long. Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball. Was like minors against seniors.
defence were superstars in comparison to the forwards play
The ball into the armagh forwards was very good, by contrast down delayed the ball into their forwards by a fraction and thats why the armagh backs were up the holes of benny & co. That combined with poor passing & no left footed free taker for the 2nd half made it an extremley difficult game for down to win. anyone else think playing your free man in the full back line when chasing a game was a good idea?
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 29, 2008, 11:19:01 PM
Quote from: Maiden1 on June 29, 2008, 11:16:27 PM
Down defense was not physically strong enough. McDonnell, Clarke and Kernan all could beat there man all day long. Down men couldn't get a hand on the ball. Was like minors against seniors.
defence were superstars in comparison to the forwards play
Forwards only scored 2 points from play so where very poor, the full back line where all giving away about 3 inches and about 2 stone on there man, it was too easy for Armagh to just kick the ball in. Will struggle against physical teams.
Quote from: kumquat on June 29, 2008, 11:25:10 PM
The ball into the armagh forwards was very good, by contrast down delayed the ball into their forwards by a fraction and thats why the armagh backs were up the holes of benny & co. That combined with poor passing & no left footed free taker for the 2nd half made it an extremley difficult game for down to win. anyone else think playing your free man in the full back line when chasing a game was a good idea?
Best post so far.
Clueless use of the "extra man" when Down needed to punish Armagh and had the midfield superiority to do it. Saw McCartan remosnstarting with Ross - clearly didnt know what to do. Should have immediately introduced McComiskey to use as an extra forward.
I am beginning to seriously question the Coulter factor. So many wrong options today - made a mug of by Mckeever on more than one occasion when Benny seemed intent on playing the man and not the ball. Meeting his own on-coming player when he should be making the option further afield, too close receiveing , giving his marker every chance to bottle him in, all very unproductive. This sacrilege does not go down well in Down but for a long time I've argued that his talents are just not properly used and now I just don't know about him at all and I wonder do some of his Down colleagues feel the same.
Dan Gordon majestic again but poor support and abysmal performance on the breaking ball. Murtagh and Sexton should have gone long before Clarke.
I am one of the few who like and rate Aidan Carr but today he was all over the place - except marking his man. Not a wing half after all.
But all of these issues can be addressed - what we cannot do is continue to turn out a game but totally inadequate (in physical and intelligence terms) full back line. The WORST in Ireland, sad to say. All good guys, all game boys - just ask any Armagh player what their forward game plan was - target the full back line. That's your answer.
Go back a few years
Cole Molloy Scullion
I'd have that one anytime.
you must have been some footballer LEO. again another one of these slag the boys off if they get beat!! cop on lads!!
The reason Down were not getting the ball into Benny etc was because Armagh physically dominated the middle sector when a Down player was in possession. At times the Mourne man was isolated with 4 Armagh players smothering and hounding him, usually resulting in the Down man fouling the ball or a turn-over. The key to beating this system is not to short-pass backward and then hold on to the ball. Easier said than done but swift forward movement is the key to unlocking the intimidating suffocating tactics of the Armagh 5-12.
Armagh have the best defensive system when up against players who dither.
Leo, you should ask yourself how many championship games we actually won with the full back line-up you praise. Molloy was a fine player who did best for us at corner back or even midfield. He struggled every time he was switched to full back, and he retired two years ago.
Scullion was a decent enough defender who still gave away a huge amount of frees. He walked away from the county squad 18 months ago, was asked back, walked again and does not even play club football for Carryduff any more even though he is still in his 20s. There is very little point in putting him forward as a solution to our problems,
Cole was very unlucky to get suspended for two championship games over a relatively minor incident, but he will be back for the next match.
I would agree that Rafferty was poor against Armagh, although McCartan, as always, did his level best against an opponent who is possibly the best in Ireland in his position.
Howard had an outstanding game, kept McDonnell scoreless from play and has nailed down his place in the team. Our full back line is obviously not our strongest sector, but we did not lose the game there in Clones.
Quote from: bridgegael on June 30, 2008, 12:15:33 AM
you must have been some footballer LEO. again another one of these slag the boys off if they get beat!! cop on lads!!
"Own-club" complex makes no contribution to a true assessment of player and team performance. If you take the parochial blindfold off you will see that credit was given where it was due and questions were asked in a genuine attempt to understand under-performance, even if that means tackling scared cows..
Quote from: Mourne Rover on June 30, 2008, 12:25:14 AM
Leo, you should ask yourself how many championship games we actually won with the full back line-up you praise. Molloy was a fine player who did best for us at corner back or even midfield. He struggled every time he was switched to full back, and he retired two years ago.
Scullion was a decent enough defender who still gave away a huge amount of frees. He walked away from the county squad 18 months ago, was asked back, walked again and does not even play club football for Carryduff any more even though he is still in his 20s. There is very little point in putting him forward as a solution to our problems,
Cole was very unlucky to get suspended for two championship games over a relatively minor incident, but he will be back for the next match.
I would agree that Rafferty was poor against Armagh, although McCartan, as always, did his level best against an opponent who is possibly the best in Ireland in his position.
Howard had an outstanding game, kept McDonnell scoreless from play and has nailed down his place in the team. Our full back line is obviously not our strongest sector, but we did not lose the game there in Clones.
MR, I never once suggested we bering back that full back line. INdeed at the time it was constantly pillioried by many Down supporters as being the worst ever. My point is that it wasn't worse than this one, and more importantly, my point is that everyone has known this glaring weakness yet we are now worse than when we started. They ARE game lads, but they are a problem and not a solution and maybe none of us know the answer but we are kidding ourtselves if we think we can progress despite such a glaring inadequacy in this line.
Quote from: Take Your Points on June 29, 2008, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: orangeman on June 29, 2008, 08:44:30 PM
Fair play to Armagh - seasoned campaigners who gave Benny the "treatment" and Down's attack floundered after that - 2 points from play in 70 - 75 minutes football from Doown tells it all.
What does this say about Tyrone?
:D.....Was wondering how long that would take.. I had the opportunity to be at the 2nd Tyrone game and Down really could do no wrong imo, I think the difference was that Down had
been training for and had their homework done on Tyrone for months and by the way they were celebrating after the win cemented that for me, it was like an all Ireland to them.
I congratulated all around me but could only hope that they'd carry a little momentum into the next game but that didn't happen, Donegal rings a bell here.
Regarding the Down supporters, they really do have some winners amongst them alright, Booing Free kicks, cheering wides and one gobshite behind me berating the ref at one point
for giving a wide and not a
corner :D :D.. just about summed up the experience for me.
Well done the Orchard lads... Fermanagh for the next one though :P
Leo,
do you think Armagh would've left McComiskey unmarked in forwards as extra man?
The team with 14 can ultimately decide who spare player is. Don't think 2 more players front of Armagh goals was gonna help Down.
Armaghs best twelve would have beaten that crowd today.
Down are stsrting to come but they dont know how to sustain form as of yet, they are far too inconsistent to be considered a real threat yet but they are coming.
We have owned them for nearly two decades. ;D
Fermanagh will be a good test for armagh however the big occasion should suit Armagh and I fully expect us to win another Ulster.
The real work begins post Ulster championship.
First & foremost, I'm delighted with the win. I'd much prefer Armagh to be winning ugly & by a couple of points, than to be racking up huge scores... at this stage of the season! We'll hopefully peak at the right time!
I thought we were cleaned out around the middle in the second half, which cut up the supply Ronan & Stevie were getting in the first half. This was partly to do with big Dan, but also due to the fact we'd lost our main forager around the middle, in Martin O'Rourke. I thought it was a harsh decision to send him off, he was in the air, attempting to win the ball, only for his momentum to carry him on (in to Rafferty? – who was a disgrace for the way he went down!) – Furthermore, the referee had already turned his back, to follow the ball, before MOR landed on Rafferty. He saw the Newry man on the deck & has presumed MOR has done something!
Interestingly, Peter had Brian Mallon warming up in the 1st half, to replace MOR, only to hold back once the goal went in.
I also thought that the Down forwards in possession lacked options, so they were running down blind alleys, outnumbered, going to ground and winning frees. A stronger referee would have seen this!
To say Howard had an outstanding game seems strange, I don't recall him dispossessing Stevie or getting a ball ahead of him once in the game! Stevie doesn't go past players anymore; he wins the ball & lays it off! – How many scores was he involved with?
Ronan again was immense, a pleasure to watch! Our defence too was first class!
I was a strange game in some respects.
Armagh totally owned the ball for the first 10 - 15 minutes and went 3 points up playing against a very strong breeze. However, after that time we barely won a ball in midfield all day - Dan Gordon was immense.
It was worrying from an Armagh point of view that management felt we didn't have a midfielder worth bringing on with fresh legs (despite the fact that we have 4 or 5 on the bench). If neither Toner or McGrane was replaced yesterday, then quite simply they will not be replaced all year - I just felt we should have done something at midfield to try to shake things up.
Ronan Clarke was immense (quite simply the best full forward in Ireland), he won every single ball and his shooting was immense - his second point with the outside of the right boot was unbelievable, closely followed by his left footed point when there was just a point in it (I think) in the middle of the second half.
I was surprised that Ross Carr was happy for McCartan and Howard to pick up Clarke and McDonnell by themselves without dropping a 3rd man back there, because quite simply this was where Armagh won the match yesterday.
I'd say that Benny Coulter was happy at 5.35pm yesterday evening to be able to run more than 3 yards away from Ciaran McKeever. McKeever was obviously just intent on spoiling Coulter all day, and you would have to say that it worked.
Not quite sure why Brendan Donaghy was the first man called ashore, I thought he had a great game, and given where Francie played most of the match I would have been replacing Francie.
Charlie Vernon is an enigma, going forward there is no one stronger and more powerful, but he seems to make "stupid" mistakes like a bad toe tap or easily losing possession.
Paddy McKeever will be lucky to wearing the number 11 jersey against Fermanagh and Stephen Kernan showed tremendous skills and vision with the ball in hand, so no doubt that he is worthy of his place.
Aidan O'Rourke - to think that JK thought we could do without him last year ::)
All in all Armagh did what we had to do, though midfield still worries me. We were atrocious at midfield during the league, and were again today. Now we'll not come up against Dan Gordon every week, but at the same time we'll not meet anything as weak as the Cavan midfield either.
Quote from: Lazer on June 19, 2008, 02:23:13 PM
And, the great thing about the match being in Clones, will be the glorious drive home through Armagh, with the Down flags flying to celebrate our win!
Remind me again - how many times have Armagh won the All Ireland?
Quote from: Red Army on June 21, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
Armagh are a team on their knees hoping for one last howray.
Yes Down are a division 3 team, Armagh should have no difficulty in winning if league form is to be believed.
The thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title.
Quote from: feetofflames on June 23, 2008, 10:26:04 AM
I see this game as a fascinating battle between the old and the the new rich. Between Good and evil and between fine silk threads and a stolen jumper. Armagh are in dreamland - the country is talking about them, which is alll they wanted anyway, and they have had to play very little football to have this reputation. Armagh will be very concious that they have now won an awful lot of Ulster titles and yet have consistently failed to get it up on the big occasion.
Put this into context - Armagh have won 6 of the last 9 ulsters, have appeared in 2 all Irelands and one of them they took the back door route, Deep in their psychie will be the knowledge that Armagh footballers have an underachieveing gene in their make up - and that cant be nice. Armagh will be happy enough to plod away through the back door after this weekend where a meeting with Tyrone awaits them.
Down by 5
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 11:34:30 AM
Its the Aristocracy v Nouveau Riche. A team that wants to play fast flowing, attractive football v puke football. Down play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Armagh think they invented football in 2002. The tide is turning in Ulster, the favourites are dropping like horses at the canal turn on Grand National day. proper order to be restored on Sunday evening. Down by 5 points.
Quote from: buglebhoy on June 27, 2008, 02:42:51 PM
Bellew to go off (if he can climb out of bennys pocket) with a fake injury because he's getting roasted
Ambrose will get man of the match with 4 points from play
Paul McGrane to announce his retirement after the game.......... again!!!
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 10:53:29 PM
Could you just explain one little thing to me. What was it like standing in Croke Park in 2003 watchin Peter Canavan lift Sam. What was it like to stand there as a loser. Was it as bad as 77 or 53 ? Is it worse to lose to another Ulster team in an All Ireland final than it is to our southern counterparts? Just explain to us Down men what its like :D
Obviously most of these contributions came in the final few days when the dawning of reality led the kids to cling to whatever they could – ancient history.
Like Goats, I agree it is good at this stage to win ugly, but what would worry me about yesterday was that they could not get more out of a poor back line. An incident that sticks out in my mind and sums up the forward play was Vernon's shot on goal which McVeigh saved. The move up to it was lovely, intricate and Vernon made a great burst through the middle into space. After having done all the hard work he shot straight down McVeighs neck. At training we always tell lads to take the keeper on and make it easy for yourslef. Everything was done right up to the last minute when the wrong option was taken. Too many wrong decisions were made which left a game which could have be easly won a harder task.
Overall, the backs were solid, McKeever was excellent on Coulter, but you have to factor in how poor tyhe Down forward line were. They offered no threat whatsoever, and that is not just reflective of how well Armagh played.
Midfield were second best for long periods but for all Gordon's ball winning they had very little end product. I agree that there should have been a change and McKenna or O'Neill could have nicely slotted in their, or Vernon moved out and Mallon brought on earlier.
In the forwards, Stephen, Steven and Clarke played well, Clarke is playing a la 2002 only he is stronger. Vernon got plenty of ball but his decision making is questionable. McKeever looks very unfit and seems like he is a stone overweight, maybe it is the new kit ;). MOR is a pain. He does all the right stuff, winning ball playing it off easy, maybe not scoring but setting up plenty. Then he does something ridiculous like yesterday and thsi will end up causing Aragh in the long run. It wasn't harsh, if you see the replay he clearly follows through and he did so very dangerously and could have caused serious damage. It was a minimum yellow and I have seen people getting red for ones mnot much more serious than yesterday. It Armagh see themselves as serious contenders they need him to soften his niggly side and focus on the foraging that he does so well.
All in all it was satisfactory but unspectacular. Fermanagh will be an odd challenge and it will be a good measure of Peter's motivational abilities to see where he has them in 3 weeks.
A very fair assessment brokencrossbar1, and especially refreshing to see an Armagh supporter give ann honest assessment of the MOR- Rafferty incident which was actually very serious and the type of tackle that needs to be eliminated from the game. Imputations that Rafferty made a meal of it (a la that clown Davis on RTE) are so wide of the mark and unjust on an honest young player who needed intensive medical treatment on the spot and is doubtful for the qualifiers.
Those who can't tsee the seriousness of high and reckless follow-throughs are either clowns or hopelessly blinkered partisans.
Well done to a much better team on the day, and better prepared! More pysically suited to the modern game, well conditioned and tactically aware. They will beat Fermanagh.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 30, 2008, 08:45:56 AM
First & foremost, I'm delighted with the win. I'd much prefer Armagh to be winning ugly & by a couple of points, than to be racking up huge scores... at this stage of the season! We'll hopefully peak at the right time!
I thought we were cleaned out around the middle in the second half, which cut up the supply Ronan & Stevie were getting in the first half. This was partly to do with big Dan, but also due to the fact we'd lost our main forager around the middle, in Martin O'Rourke. I thought it was a harsh decision to send him off, he was in the air, attempting to win the ball, only for his momentum to carry him on (in to Rafferty? – who was a disgrace for the way he went down!) – Furthermore, the referee had already turned his back, to follow the ball, before MOR landed on Rafferty. He saw the Newry man on the deck & has presumed MOR has done something!
Interestingly, Peter had Brian Mallon warming up in the 1st half, to replace MOR, only to hold back once the goal went in.
I also thought that the Down forwards in possession lacked options, so they were running down blind alleys, outnumbered, going to ground and winning frees. A stronger referee would have seen this!
To say Howard had an outstanding game seems strange, I don't recall him dispossessing Stevie or getting a ball ahead of him once in the game! Stevie doesn't go past players anymore; he wins the ball & lays it off! – How many scores was he involved with?
Ronan again was immense, a pleasure to watch! Our defence too was first class!
As far as the Martin O'Rourke sending off incident it was about time the dirt ball got the red card he has benn deserving to get all his career especially the elbow he did in the first half.
Watched the match with great interest yesterday as I feel Armagh are very definite contendors for this year's All Ireland and while The Cavan match had me convinced they were this matchshowed me that Armagh have a long long way to go to be considered contendor's again.
Against Cavan Armagh looked comfortable throughout and I always felt they had too much for them. Down yesterday were woeful and yet they kicked a bagful of wides and still had a chance in the game right to the end.
Armagh's inability to pull away from teams will ultimately be their downfall. They will own possession and Stevie and Ronan will get some great scores but unless they can capitalise more on their advantage they will lose games. Last year Armagh were head and shoulders above both Derry and Armagh yet they just hung into both games and because they weren't put away Donegal got their sucker punch goal and Derry their sucker punch point to beat them.
As Brolly has said Fermanagh are an awful team to play against, awkward and sticky and plenty of hunger and belief in themselves. Derry should've put them away after 20 mins in Omagh but when they didn't Fermanagh were able to come back strong. If Armagh aren't 5/6 points up with 5/10 to go they could find themselves in severe trouble again although I still fancy that their experience will carry them through the Ulster Final... it won't be wnough for the AI though.
Does anyone know what the story is with McDonnell's inability to take a man on and draw a free. Even last year, he seemed to have lost the edge to run at defenders, try to get around them, and at least draw a free.
Oisin McConville is the master at this, but I was concerned by Stevie running up blind alleys as he appeared to have no where else to go.
similar to the dublin game, i thought it was an incredibly disappointing game. Armagh are fouling incessantly when there is no need to especially when they have a good defenisve structure.. However there midfield will prevent them landing the Big One this season. You'd wonder will anyone mount a challenge to Kerry this season.
A few points (from a Down perspective):
1. I counted 5 or 6 times down gave the ball to Armagh with a poor pass, and the result was an Armagh point. Some very sloppy passing, and pass selection.
2. Midfield was excellent for most of the game in terms of winning the ball. Distribution was not so hot.
3. The use of the extra man was extremely poor. Damien Rafferty was deployed within the full back line, not 10-15 yards ahead of it. There is no point having two fellas make the exact same tracking run. Eventually they moved him outfield, but it was a little late.
4. More poor shooting (and to an extent free taking). Yesterdays team had essentially two free takers, Aidan Carr and Liam Doyle, when Doyle got injured that was just one (right footed free taker), down suffered as a result of a right footer trying to hit over from the right side of the pitch.
5. The pass in to the inside forwards from the midfield half backs was frequently poor, too high or with too much backspin inducing a big bounce. The hesitation gave the Armagh full backs time to nail the Down forwards. In contrast, McDonnell and Clarke were getting high quality passes properly weighted.
Armagh had that bit more composure under pressure ( and Stephen Kernan). I dont think they are anything like as good as the 1999- 2003 version and to be fair players of the quality of McGeeney/McConville/ Marsden/ McEntees dont grow on trees ( except maybe in Kerry). Ultimately with Doyle going off the anticipated Down advantage in free taking did not materialise and probably proved decisive.
Ambrose and Gordon ( though both occasionally wasteful in front of posts) should give Down a solid midfield for seasons ahead . There is also some hope that our much maligned defence is improving. Armaghs total was not exceptional and Down were undone by a lack of fire power and composure up front.
Expectations of Benny are too high and his record does not match the legend. His average score in championship football is 0.5 goals-01 points per game ..ie 2.5 points per game. Its only adequate. His kicking from feet is probably below average for an inter county forward and the speed which made him in his youth is in decline. Still I have no doubt he is trying his best and wouldnt question his selection. He works hard. Some of his and Colgans pass choices yesterday were shocking. I would perserve with Colgan ...he had a poor start but got up to the pace of the match as it progressed and wsa picking up a bit of ball near the end.
All in all not too disappointed ...Down are on an upward move and if they can keep Doyle fit and get Cole back might manage some run in the qualifers. It would be worth it just to spite da bollix from Donegal ( mind you he would probably claim credit then).
Agree with a lot that has been said by the Armagh posters here, concerns over the midfield sector throughout the league resurfaced yesterday. Gordon always seemed to be in position for the catch before McGrane and therefore left McGrane jumping behind him. MOR getting sent off left us with our main breaking ball winner on the line and it could've cost us the match. I have sung his praises quite a bit on the board but yesterday he showed all his negative points. Like Goats I noticed that Brian Mallon was ready to come on presumably for MOR as it was obvious that the red mist had descended and it was only a matter of time before he was sent off. Benny O'Kane was constantly running over to him to try to settle him.
Thought that Aidan started off poorly but as the game went on he became very influential. Charlie Vernon started off like a house on fire but several big hits took it out of him and eventually he blew a gasket. Yes, he does make a few mistakes but Jaysus lads it was his second championship match, he's still settling in, give him time, bit like Stephen Kernan who's just now starting to show what a good player he is.
Ronan Clarke was awesome and as somebody else said he is the best full forward in Ireland (and that includes Kieran Donaghy).
Ciaran McKeever had a great game and showed that he can play as well as a defensive stopper as he can as an attacking wing back, he really has it all. See the Irish News and a few posters on here calling him cynical but him and Coulter were at it all the way through the match.
I am concerned about the Fermanagh match as they will run at us in the same way as Down did and we need to be more disciplined in our tackling, haven't got a chance to watch the rerun but it felt at the time that McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees. We may face the same scenario in the final.
Maybe it's just that I'm dismayed at the concentrated efforts to remove all physicality from the game, but again I find myself almost alone in defending a player for a physical clash. I don't know if my vision is totally skewed at this stage, but I seem to have seen it differently to most here. (I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so excuse me if I'm missing something).
The way I saw it was that O'Rourke made a legitimate and admirable effort to block the pass, jumping a huge height, but failing to reach the ball. Now he's airborne. How is he supposed to change direction in mid-air? He's not fitted with ailerons and a rudder. He goes where his momentum takes him, which happens to be straight into the player who's wide open after delivering the pass. If he had done anything to make the impact worse, he'd have deserved the card, but he didn't move hand, arm, elbow, boot or leg. He just crashed into Rafferty and hurt him. He was as likely to hurt himself. I could see no evidence of intent.
It's it used to be a physical game.
BC - you're too long in Cork already. I'll have to give you a few tips about immunising yourself against Cork football do-not-touch culture. :)
Speaking of the Ulster Final if the CDC were watching the video of yesterdays match a few of the Armagh players should be getting a few suspensions for blatant elbows and a few other off the ball challenges.
Quote from: mackers on June 30, 2008, 10:22:06 AM
Agree with a lot that has been said by the Armagh posters here, concerns over the midfield sector throughout the league resurfaced yesterday. Gordon always seemed to be in position for the catch before McGrane and therefore left McGrane jumping behind him. MOR getting sent off left us with our main breaking ball winner on the line and it could've cost us the match. I have sung his praises quite a bit on the board but yesterday he showed all his negative points. Like Goats I noticed that Brian Mallon was ready to come on presumably for MOR as it was obvious that the red mist had descended and it was only a matter of time before he was sent off. Benny O'Kane was constantly running over to him to try to settle him.
Thought that Aidan started off poorly but as the game went on he became very influential. Charlie Vernon started off like a house on fire but several big hits took it out of him and eventually he blew a gasket. Yes, he does make a few mistakes but Jaysus lads it was his second championship match, he's still settling in, give him time, bit like Stephen Kernan who's just now starting to show what a good player he is.
Ronan Clarke was awesome and as somebody else said he is the best full forward in Ireland (and that includes Kieran Donaghy).
Ciaran McKeever had a great game and showed that he can play as well as a defensive stopper as he can as an attacking wing back, he really has it all. See the Irish News and a few posters on here calling him cynical but him and Coulter were at it all the way through the match.
I am concerned about the Fermanagh match as they will run at us in the same way as Down did and we need to be more disciplined in our tackling, haven't got a chance to watch the rerun but it felt at the time that McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees. We may face the same scenario in the final.
::) ::) ::) ::) Of course he is! I mean playing well against Cavan and Down is the same as being undoubtedly the best FF in 2 Championship seasons whilst winning the AI in both!
My twopence.
Just after Armagh scored the goal, we stopped winning any ball in the midfield. It was a smart move by Carr bringing Rodgers out, very worrying for Armagh. Part of the problem was down to the absence of MOR in the second half but also a lack of vision accuracy by Hearty. After about the fourth win by Down he should have known or been told to vary it.
I didnt think Vernons goal attempt was at the keeper. More like to his left and low, and therefore it was a great save to get down there.
I also thought the Armagh substitutions were well timed, but the wrong people were substituted. Why bring off Donaghy? Aaron was responsbile for letting a Down man catch a free near the square then pass it out for a handy point. Aaron didnt look very mobile. But at least we survived and the run out will do these fellas a lot of good.
Finally finally, we mentioned this last year too, but where has Armaghs orange jersy's gone? The "orange" tops and orange socks dont match!
Yesterday was a fairly disappointing day for Down, to many mistakes and the wrong options taken on too many ocassions. Armagh were the better team and Down can have no complaints. Down are improving thats for sure. I hope Down can do something in the qualifiers, but Downs attitude towards the qualifers hasn't always been what it should if past years are anything to go by.
Quote from: Orior on June 30, 2008, 10:51:22 AM
I didnt think Vernons goal attempt was at the keeper. More like to his left and low, and therefore it was a great save to get down there.
Orior, I was in the McGrane stand looking straight down the line of Vernon's shot. From my viewpoint it appeared to be straight at McVeigh.
Quote from: Hardy on June 30, 2008, 10:38:06 AM
Maybe it's just that I'm dismayed at the concentrated efforts to remove all physicality from the game, but again I find myself almost alone in defending a player for a physical clash. I don't know if my vision is totally skewed at this stage, but I seem to have seen it differently to most here. (I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so excuse me if I'm missing something).
The way I saw it was that O'Rourke made a legitimate and admirable effort to block the pass, jumping a huge height, but failing to reach the ball. Now he's airborne. How is he supposed to change direction in mid-air? He's not fitted with ailerons and a rudder. He goes where his momentum takes him, which happens to be straight into the player who's wide open after delivering the pass. If he had done anything to make the impact worse, he'd have deserved the card, but he didn't move hand, arm, elbow, boot or leg. He just crashed into Rafferty and hurt him. He was as likely to hurt himself. I could see no evidence of intent.
Orior, I have to disagree with you about Vernon's shot. It was hit at the nice level for a keeper. If you are shotting for goal from that distance you either hit it Liam Hayes style into the top corner, or cut the daisies off the grass. A foot or two off the ground make keepers look good.
It's it used to be a physical game.
BC - you're too long in Cork already. I'll have to give you a few tips about immunising yourself against Cork football do-not-touch culture. :)
Here, Hardy, I like you am dismiayed at the lack of physicality in the game, come to our next championship game and you will see a club team in Cork being built on the Cross model :P I have to disagree with you in regards to MOR. If you watch him jumping to "block" the pass by Rafferty. At no time had he his eyes anywhere near where the ball was. He was totally focused on clattering him. It may seem rich to some people who know me on here, but this bugs me. It is one thing to stop a runner, but this was just an attempt to hurt someone. I have no problem with someone giving another player a reasonably fair belt but there are limits to which I will condone playing on the edge. I think he took it over the edge this time, and thankfully it didn't cost us, but it will in the long run, either by him (or another player being sent off) or by returning a ref against us in a tense match.
Hardy, I make you right to an extent. But we've all been in that position, and you've got three basic ways to react.
1. Do your best to minimise contact.
2. Continue as if the man doesn't exist and whatever happens, happens.
3. Make sure the man bears the brunt of your body weight by angling yourself in such a way to cause damage.
Number one is out for everyone except pussyfooting groundball players.
Number two is the acceptable option.
Number three is no different to assaulting someone on the street.
The problem exists that in a lot of cases, the line between two and three is quite abritrary. Only the individual knows for sure. In my opinion O'Rourke didn't go to 'do' Rafferty, but he certainly went in hard. That puts him on the line between two and three, which kind of has to be a yellow card in my book, as a third man tackle should be at least a tick by itself.
can someone answer me a question please.
Hugh Davey??(and yes its a question)
is someone having a laugh re: the amount of shamrocks players on that down panel.
I missed the sending off yesterday, I was following the ball.
Just seen it on rte's web stream.
I think it was harsh. It wasn't as if O'Rourke carried alot of forward speed into it, and once he is airborne, what is he meant to do.
I think the referee thought he led with the forearm/elbow, and that is why he booked him. Replays will show that was not the case.
Fair points lads. BC - not looking at the ball is probably circumstantial evidence of intent, OK and I'd missed that. But I doubt if that's what the referee based his decision on. To borrow O'Neill's modest proposal elsewhere, it's better for the game that an odd lad here and there gets broke up than that we turn it into netball.
And you can forget about introducing physical contact into Cork football. You'll be hounded out of the county, vilified in de paypur and denounced as a savage who doesn't appreciate "nice flowing football".
Quote from: Hardy on June 30, 2008, 11:38:22 AM
Fair points lads. BC - not looking at the ball is probably circumstantial evidence of intent, OK and I'd missed that. But I doubt if that's what the referee based his decision on. To borrow O'Neill's modest proposal elsewhere, it's better for the game that an odd lad here and there gets broke up than that we turn it into netball.
And you can forget about introducing physical contact into Cork football. You'll be hounded out of the county, vilified in de paypur and denounced as a savage who doesn't appreciate "nice flowing football".
That has already started, and that is just within the club!!! We won "ugly" last week and were villified for being too negative and cynical by our own club men!
As regards MOR it was a booking in my view and no more. The game can be physical without late hits.
The weaknesses of the Down full back line have been well documented, but when Armagh's new corner forward Francie Bellew, beats them to the race for an incoming ball, picks up and delivers his pass, then it is time for the Down lads to pack their bags and call for a taxi.
btw, this is not a backhanded criticism of the Bould Francie. Leg-end.
I burst into laughter when he came out of full forward to win that ball... how did he sneak up there withough anyone noticing!!? He was free again after that, but wasn't supplied...imagine the cheers he'd get if he took a score!
He played a more roving role yesterday, as he stook to John Clarke. I think Down's tactic was to draw him out, but he's farily comfortable on the ball!
For me it was yellow-card. Could of went either way but I don't think he can have many com plaints, we barely won a break-ball without him though. The one thing I would say is that the ref had it for MOR from the start. Has sent him off before and he didn't even see the incident, just seen the Down man on the ground and produced the yellow.
SK continues to prove myself and others very wrong and I am delighted about it.
Wobbler you are well off the mark, I did not see many Down people being near decapitated. Bellews 50/50 ball, MOR over carrying, AOR getting pushed in the back and the one McKeever getting a tick were all examples of very soft Down frees.
I would have liked to have seen Dongahy move in and Bellew taken ff for Aaron, but of course Donaghy had a yellow which played a part in the decision.
Difference in class was quite evident for me.
Hey corn post me your article on sundays game when you have it done...good result yest..heard the commentry...better than nothin thou i suppose
Will do chap.
I believe text updates were slow arriving to you?
yeah... i am actually only afetr gettin a text 5min ago from 10mins gone in the game ;D cheers
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 30, 2008, 11:23:31 AM
can someone answer me a question please.
Hugh Davey??(and yes its a question)
is someone having a laugh re: the amount of shamrocks players on that down panel.
Great call here brick i would like to know the same, why are there so many shamrocks boys on the panel? Obviously DJ aswell as having a laugh is also getting a back hander from someone. You would see it if they were anyway half decent but they would struggle to get into many of the Div. 1 teams in the county and that isnt exactly gracious is it!
have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on armagh's style we will never get anywhere.
we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.
we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.
ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!
Have to compliment Armagh on the huge support they bring - they must have outnumbered Down 4 to 1 yesterday.
Quote from: goldenyears on June 30, 2008, 01:31:02 PM
have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on armagh's style we will never get anywhere.
we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.
we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.
ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!
i would have hoped that this soccer type business of blaming the manager when things go wrong wouldnt have spread to the analysis of yesterdays game. the players didnt cut the mustard and doyler got injured. nothing ross could have done about that
Anyone know why Jackie Lynch didnt start?
Quote from: Down Gael on June 30, 2008, 02:00:54 PM
Anyone know why Jackie Lynch didnt start?
because hes crap?
Unless Jackie was injured he should have started yesterday. One of the few physical players we have.
fair enough hes physical but hes not much else!
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Down Gael on June 30, 2008, 02:00:54 PM
Anyone know why Jackie Lynch didnt start?
because hes crap?
I thought he played very well in Cross in the league last year!
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Down Gael on June 30, 2008, 02:00:54 PM
Anyone know why Jackie Lynch didnt start?
because hes crap?
Dodgy Umpire , If you don't rate the lad fair enough but there is no need for that carry on . As wee James said to someone in the crowd yesterday "I'm not playing today , support the ones that are "( or words to that affect ). I know Lynch didn't play yesterday but the point is the same if these boys are giving up their time and putting the effort in then I think the least we can do is give them a fair crack .
Massive disappointment yesterday , hope Ross can lift the lads and they give the qualifiers a good go this year . Any word on Liam Doyle ? knee heavily strapped going into the game and didn't look good coming off .
Thought the support was fairly even Orangeman.
Quote from: downredblack on June 30, 2008, 02:20:15 PM
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
Quote from: Down Gael on June 30, 2008, 02:00:54 PM
Anyone know why Jackie Lynch didnt start?
because hes crap?
Dodgy Umpire , If you don't rate the lad fair enough but there is no need for that carry on . As wee James said to someone in the crowd yesterday "I'm not playing today , support the ones that are "( or words to that affect ). I know Lynch didn't play yesterday but the point is the same if these boys are giving up their time and putting the effort in then I think the least we can do is give them a fair crack .
Massive disappointment yesterday , hope Ross can lift the lads and they give the qualifiers a good go this year . Any word on Liam Doyle ? knee heavily strapped going into the game and didn't look good coming off .
hes had his fair crack and he hasnt done much. jackies a big lad im sure he'll not loose too much sleep over whats being said by myself and others. just because someone puts in time and effort doesnt mean any ill talk of them should be censored. we all play/played football and when we are poor we can accept that, why should county players be different?
Dodgy Umpire you are out of order. Big Jackie is a good player who works hard. If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace.
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute. I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally. And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you wouldn't say to his face that he is crap.
Get a life you coward
Quote from: goldenyears on June 30, 2008, 01:31:02 PM
have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on armagh's style we will never get anywhere.
we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.
we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.
ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!
I don't think there needs to be a major tactical overhaul. What happened yesterday was just as I'd feared.
Player for player, I think we were capable of matching Armagh, but I always knew that if it came down to a battle of wits, that Armagh would win because Peter McDonnell is a very shrewd tactician.
Having said that, I don't think we need to ape Armagh to get success. Ok, we need a plan B, but I still think we should play to our strengths which is essentially a running game and quick movement. It's no coincidence that we ruled midfield in the two Tyrone games, yet still got more joy out of the passes down the channels to our half-forwards and the quick interchanging of passing.
There's no point in adapting a rigorous defensive style when we simply don't have that type of player in the county.
Looking at the qualifiers and I think we have been lucky to draw one of the few counties with a worse record than us in the qualifiers.
We are a better team than we were in the division 2 final against them in 2004 and they have gone in the opposite direction.
Yesterday was a big letdown, but I think it will give the managment the chance to front up to some things the Tyrone win maybe papered over. However, as I say, no major change needed and with Cole back at FB, we should have a more settled look in defence.
Dodgy umpire
I don't think comments such as yours adds anything to the Down cause and I'm sure you would agree that sacrifices made by the county panel would far outweigh those of the average club player . It's easy to name call from behind your desk, Lynch and others have the balls to go out and give it a go .
Quote from: orangeman on June 30, 2008, 01:42:35 PM
Have to compliment Armagh on the huge support they bring - they must have outnumbered Down 4 to 1 yesterday.
I was at the match to watch Cavans minors and I thought Down had way more support. Anyway, I thought the best team won. Down huffed and puffed just like cavan did against Armagh but just didn't have the quality to make it count. Armagh had two forwards that were just too good. I though Clarke was outstanding yesterday. He was being double marked most of the game but his movement and the timing of the balls into him is tremendous. Down just don't have forwards of that ability. It never looked like Down could get back to level terms in the 2nd half and their short hand passing around Armagh 45 was just bringing the ball into contact which mostly meant a turnover. One thing I'd be worried about was Armaghs tackling. I thought it was very poor and over aggressive and gifted Down frees, which was the only thing that kept them in touch at all. I think Fermanagh will be a harder team for Armagh and I wouldn't be surprised if Fermanagh won that encounter.
regarding Doyle, he had a late fitness test on saturday evening in Derryleckagh playing fields and didnt come through it with much success, he shouldnt have started really, it was a risk i guess and seems it has backfired.
whatever about the management, if our players miss kickable frees, squander numerous scoring opportunities, turn the ball over when in possession, give loopy hospital handpasses, persist in hugging the ball /run into traffic and in general choosing the wrong option nearly 60% of the time then how can you expect to win?
I feel the team that started (and possibly finished) had enough quality to win that match yesterday without a doubt and were in no menas up against a good team and thats what makes the defeat all the more galling. Armagh did what they had do and have become experts at their system, whereas we were quite mediocre in most things we did, some of the Down players looked like wee boys at different stages and one or two have been very disappointing this year so far. That doesnt mean i think there should be overhaul in management or player personnel or radical surgery, basically the best footballers in Down are on that panel with the exception of a few (ref newry shamrocks).
on the other hand if i were an armaghh man i wouldnt be too confident or bullish about long term chances of silverwear based on that performance. Alot of mediocre players on that team and a few passengers too allied to a few older guys that are done doesnt bode well in my eyes. Without Clarke and mc donnell they are mediocre at best. Basically Clarke was the difference yesterday. hard to arugue agaisnt that.
Quote from: Feckitt on June 30, 2008, 02:51:52 PM
Dodgy Umpire you are out of order. Big Jackie is a good player who works hard. If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace.
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute. I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally. And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you wouldn't say to his face that he is crap.
Get a life you coward
i didnt say it is a disgrace hes on the team i simply said what many believe: he is no good. i am behind my team ive stuck up for the management (unlike some) ive praised the defensive efforts etc. how is it out of order to say someone is crap. i dare say that if i did say it to jackies face he wouldnt whinge about like you are.
Quote from: downredblack on June 30, 2008, 02:55:44 PM
Dodgy umpire
I don't think comments such as yours adds anything to the Down cause and I'm sure you would agree that sacrifices made by the county panel would far outweigh those of the average club player . It's easy to name call from behind your desk, Lynch and others have the balls to go out and give it a go .
granted the sacrifices far outwiegh mine or anyone elses playing club football, i dont understand what you mean they have the balls to go out and give it a go though, is it not the case that you have to be given the oppertunity by selectors and management, which many great players arent?
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 03:03:13 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on June 30, 2008, 02:51:52 PM
Dodgy Umpire you are out of order. Big Jackie is a good player who works hard. If he is not good enough for his place amongst Dan Gordon, Ambrose and Colgan, then that is no disgrace.
Get behind your team, and try and positively contribute. I am an Armagh man, but I know Jackie personally. And I bet you Ten thousand pound to one, that you wouldn't say to his face that he is crap.
Get a life you coward
i didnt say it is a disgrace hes on the team i simply said what many believe: he is no good. i am behind my team ive stuck up for the management (unlike some) ive praised the defensive efforts etc. how is it out of order to say someone is crap. i dare say that if i did say it to jackies face he wouldnt whinge about like you are.
I dare say that if you did say it to Jackie's face then you'd get a shlap for your trouble
yes and quite rightly so as it would be rude to say the least to walk up to a fellow gael and say "your crap". however if he asked me what i thought of him i wouldnt lie to the man , but like i said i doubt hes overly fussed.
i apologise. perhaps i could have used more politically correct language. to rephrase :jackie lynch is a hard worker and a great role model to all, however he maybe shouldnt start due to a lack of pace and skill
Good lad
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 03:13:18 PM
it would be rude to say the least to walk up to a fellow gael and say "your crap".
Not to mention baffling. "You're crap" would be rude as well.
what can i say, im tired after yesterday
On the day, Down just weren't good enough, but I don't think there's really much between the 2 teams - Doyle having to go off was a huge blow to down, both from open play in terms of his astute positional play and distribution from CHB, but also from left-footed frees, a number of which he probably would have slung over that Carr missed. Sexton and Murtagh failed to contribute much yesterday, and I would have to ask is there room for the two of them on the same team? Would have to agree that John Clarke i not the answer at corner forward, though I would like to see him moved out to wing-half-forward, where he would give us a more physical presence. I would say the time has come against Offaly for McComiskey to be given a chance from the start to show what he's capable of.
As for the final, I can't see Fermanagh making much headway against the Armaghmen. Fermanagh may have a stronger defence than Down, but I can't see their forwards outscoring the Armagh ones. They might manage 1-9 or something to that effect, but in a tight game, I could well see McDonnell and Clarke scoring just about enough to see Armagh home. Down were no worldbeaters after having beaten Tyrone the last day, nor are they suddenly crap after being beaten by a fine Armagh team. The team have genuinely moved forward, we are now competing ith the top teams in Ireland as not before in the last number of years. If anything this current Down team reminds me of the Armagh team of the late 90s who went close against Tyrone in 97' and then Derry in 98' before making their breakthrough in 99. Down followers should not be disheartened for this team is really not too far away.
QuoteI could well see McDonnell and Clarke scoring just about enough to see Armagh home
Why all the continued talk about Clarke and McDonnell....should it not be Clarke, McDonnell and S. Kernan, following Stephen's performance yesterday?
Cant see armagh not beating fermanagh... they will have another gear 2 go 2 if need be!!
Quote from: goldenyears on June 30, 2008, 01:31:02 PM
have to be critical of the management team lads - i really think down have the crux of a team that should progress to the last 8 on a regular basis, but without a system of play based on arm's style we will never get anywhere.
we dominated midfield for the best part of 3 games, and when its an old fashioned shoot em up, we are just about ok, but will always struggle with the lack of quality out and out defenders. instead when we come against an armagh style game plan, we have no plan B in attack, no alternative at all, and our defence is left exposed time and time again.
we need to adopt a defensive style game plan ASAP or else we face another 10 yrs in the wilderness.
ps why didnt we throw ambrose or someone like into num14 when running the ball in wasnt working. lets have 2 or 3 big men in there and launch the ball in on the full back line. jesus at least give it a try when plan A doesnt work!
It seemed to me Ross didn't make the right calls yesterday. Down continuously ran into an Armagh wall yesterday about thirty yards out from goal and turned over possesion. Ambrose or Dan Gordon on the edge of the square for the last twenty mins may have offered a different dynamic.
More concerning was the use of Down's spare man. Down should have had a ball player in and around the midfield-half forward line capable of causing damage. Armagh were starting to give away a lot of frees in this area and if we had of had a spare man taking passes off the shoulder in this section of the pitch we could have caused a lot of damage. Our 'sweeper' through no fault of his touched the ball about three times in the last 25 mins. You would expect the extra man to be constantly on the ball causing a nuisance. Even on our own kick outs we did not use the extra man because of his proximity to our own goal. In effect we wasted a chance to take the game to Armagh.
I would qualify my comments though by saying that whilst I thought we could have made more use of the extra man, it is not a direct criticism of Ross Carr's management. He's the man for the job and like a lot of the Down players this year will have leaned a lot from three tough games. A lot has been said of how Armagh did not play well and still won the game, but by the same token Down were pretty poor and yet with more accurate free taking could have caused an upset. A bit of tweeking here and there and experience gleaned from these games should stand to us well in the qualifiers. For a few years now we have not even been competitive and at least now teams are very wary of us.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 30, 2008, 03:01:05 PM
regarding Doyle, he had a late fitness test on saturday evening in Derryleckagh playing fields and didnt come through it with much success, he shouldnt have started really, it was a risk i guess and seems it has backfired.
whatever about the management, if our players miss kickable frees, squander numerous scoring opportunities, turn the ball over when in possession, give loopy hospital handpasses, persist in hugging the ball /run into traffic and in general choosing the wrong option nearly 60% of the time then how can you expect to win?
were in no menas up against a good team and thats what makes the defeat all the more galling.
on the other hand if i were an armaghh man i wouldnt be too confident or bullish about long term chances of silverwear based on that performance. Alot of mediocre players on that team and a few passengers too allied to a few older guys that are done doesnt bode well in my eyes. Without Clarke and mc donnell they are mediocre at best. Basically Clarke was the difference yesterday. hard to arugue agaisnt that.
We easily beat a team, playing with 14 men for the half the match, what more do you want?
Delightful yesterday, 14 man Armagh beating 16 man Down( have you ever seen a more biased referee?) and all of my predictions coming true... a facile win for Armagh that should have been by a far greater margin and the vastly overrated Coulter anonymous.
Pleasure as always to meet Rufus after the game and as his companion rightly remarked we had forgotten how hate filled and vitriolic Down's supporters were as regards Armagh >:(
Quote from: T Fearon on June 30, 2008, 04:38:35 PM
Delightful yesterday, 14 man Armagh beating 16 man Down( have you ever seen a more biased referee?) and all of my predictions coming true... a facile win for Armagh that should have been by a far greater margin and the vastly overrated Coulter anonymous.
Pleasure as always to meet Rufus after the game and as his companion rightly remarked we had forgotten how hate filled and vitriolic Down's supporters were as regards Armagh >:(
down had the referee??? if a man is fouled he diserves a free, armagh fouled and conceeded frees. ive heard of bad loosers but bad winners?
Quote from: dodgy umpire on June 30, 2008, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 30, 2008, 04:38:35 PM
Delightful yesterday, 14 man Armagh beating 16 man Down( have you ever seen a more biased referee?) and all of my predictions coming true... a facile win for Armagh that should have been by a far greater margin and the vastly overrated Coulter anonymous.
Pleasure as always to meet Rufus after the game and as his companion rightly remarked we had forgotten how hate filled and vitriolic Down's supporters were as regards Armagh >:(
down had the referee??? if a man is fouled he diserves a free, armagh fouled and conceeded frees. ive heard of bad loosers but bad winners?
Well said dodgy umpire!!!!! they won and they are still complaining...can't please some people sure you can't!
Seem to remembert a lot of Down fans complaing about the ref after you defeated Tyrone in Newry?
dodgy umpire's point was that if a man is fouled he deserves a free, I was annoyed at the decision in Newry at the end of normal time when a free was awarded against paul mccumiskey when it really wasn't a free...check out this video of the match on you tube especially at about 1:58 it will show you exactly why I and many other Down supporters were annoyed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32oyPdlSfIQ
You said
"They won and they are still complaining..can't please some people sure you can't!"
Just asking you to point out the difference of what Armagh fans are posting about and what you are posting about after Tyrone and how it is ok for Down but not for Armagh? I really can't see a difference but please enlighten me.
Armagh fans shouldn't have anything to complain about the ref, he wasn't playing for a draw, gave each side cards where and when needed, thought he was decent enough to both sides
Whether we are right or not is not the point.
You made the point about us winning and complaining, I want you to explain the difference between that and what Down ones were saying after the Tyrone match.
Do you know what corn, forget it ok!!!!
Aha, admission that there is no difference.
It is not admission, I explained and you were asking me to explain again!!!!!!! The difference was in the quality of refereeing which is why I said what I said
No you said winning and still complaining.
Armagh won and fans complained...
Down won and fans complained..
No difference, you did not explain, you just pointed out where Down fans had a right. Therefore you are wrong.
QuoteOnce again Tyroneman proves he has no GAA knowledge, good work again. I look forward to you making an idiot of yourself again soon
Based on what exactly Corn?
Armagh failed to win a championship game in 2007.
They failed to get out of Div 2 in 2008.
They were last in an AI final in 2003
What evidence do you derive from beating Cavan and Down that Armagh are AI contenders? As afar as I can see they will cause big teams problems but more than likely fall short come QF / SF time.
Reasonsed and mature post though, espcecially when followed up with:
Quotehas the referee gifting them free
Quoteany Down man who disagrees with the fact they got soft frees is living in dreamland
Down won very few handy frees in that game. If you watch the replays. If you understand football.
You fail to mention Ronan Clarkes 9-10 steps each and every time he was on the ball. Funny no complaints that the ref failed to give that as a free.
You fail to mention McKeever kneeing Coulter's bandaged leg on the sideline after the ball went out of play. No soft free there either.
You fail to mention the O'Rourkes holding onto jerseys and falling at every opportunity to buy frees.
Armagh are a decent team, with 2 good forwards. They have an excellent defence (although anyone who rates Fin Mo up alongside Andy MAllon is crazy - the 2 are poles apart).
The Rolls Rocye of the Armagh team is not McDonnell or Clarke, or even Oisin. It's Aaron Kernan
Once agin the Down game showed that Armagh's defence wins games. For the amount of posession Armagh had in the first (especially) and second half the tally they racked up was criminal.
A poor Tyrone forward line put up a better score FFS and we were abject in defence and MF.
I'd be delighted if you could point out my deficeit of GAA knowledge though. Or if you want to have a proper discourse, feel free. I'd appreciate less of the patronising though, son.
I normally get great value out of debating football with my Armagh neighbours, shame you can't lose your arrogant streak long enough.
Having seen your discourse with Downgirl though being called an idiot by you just might be alright.............................
Thanks for proving my point.
Excellent. Truly excellent. ::)
Can't say anything intelligent, take the playschool route.
Coming from the man who posts they are not contenders and then expects them to get to the semi?
tyroneman - if you have a point to make, though i don't know what it is, do so with coherant and relevent arguments. discounting armagh's chances of challenging for sam in 2008 because "they came last in the 2003 all ireland final" illustrates perfectly your level of intellect. ridiculous points like that are as irrelevent as armagh men claiming to be better than tyrone because they comfortably despatched the team that beat them.
reading one of the last posts that sugested armagh would not beat any of the big teams........... apart from kerry who would be classed as a big team that armagh should fear???????
serious strength an depth in this armagh panel............ players that came in yday slotted in seemlessly and all played their part.............. trainin will no doubt be hot and heavy for next 3 weeks
yesterday proved that in ronan clarke and stephen kernan armagh have two of the most precosious talents in the country............. clarkes ball winning and shot selection allied to kernans incredible level of technique will continue to undo defenses well into the summer.
ur 5 AI didn win u the match yesterday boys!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
QuoteThe way I saw it was that O'Rourke made a legitimate and admirable effort to block the pass, jumping a huge height, but failing to reach the ball. Now he's airborne. How is he supposed to change direction in mid-air? He's not fitted with ailerons and a rudder. He goes where his momentum takes him, which happens to be straight into the player who's wide open after delivering the pass. If he had done anything to make the impact worse, he'd have deserved the card, but he didn't move hand, arm, elbow, boot or leg. He just crashed into Rafferty and hurt him. He was as likely to hurt himself. I could see no evidence of intent.
That was my take on the incident Hardy. Was Marty O'Rourke given a "straight" yellow or was he ticked as well in the first half. If so, a tick to follow the yellow card as a final warning could have sufficed.
We did enough yesterday, nothing more nothing less. Down were very poor. They had an extra man and a stranglehold at midfield in the second half and still didn't look like scoring much apart from the frees the ref was going to give them (many of which I felt were very debatable). Thought Down were very negative tactically with the extra man by placing him deep in the full back line when Down needed to get a few scores to get into the game.
Thought Ciaran had a great game yesterday. Excellent marking display. Our main problems were around the centre from after the goal. I thought Dan Gordon was well on top of McGrane whose lack of mobility was an issue I felt. None of the half forward line finished the game and that's something to worry about. I didn't think Paddy McKeever had a great game, Brian Mallon was much more effective when he came on. Aidan Carr caused Charlie Vernon a lot of problems I felt.
We didn't play particularly well but at least we got the win. Clarke was superb, McDonnell worked very hard and Stephen Kernan also played very well. Fermanagh are going to be a very difficult proposition but at least they shouldn't pose any surprises at this stage. We were victims of their big day in the Sun in 2004 so hopefully it'll be another side they win their first Ulster final again!
Had to grin hearing some of the Down crowd shouting for Fermanagh within half an hour of the final whistle.
Don't expect them to get to the semi, more the QF in all honesty.
But - it's a possibility though that with a win over Fermanagh and with a handy draw the SF could be on. It's the potential ability to get beyond that - into and winning the final that marks contenders out - and I cannot see Armagh doing that this year.
I think they will restrict most teams in scoring against them but do not have the nous at CHF (S Kernan needs another year or 2 championship football against Dublin / Kerry etc) or a free enough scoring forward unit that will do sufficient damage at the hard end of things.
Armagh traditionally get way too cocky after a couple of wins, it would do them more good to adopt the cute hoorism of Kerry rather than the chest beating routine normally employed.
We in Tyrone bought into the conveyor belt myth created by the pundits and press alike since 2003 and it's only now that we are catching on it's exactly that - a myth. We'll trouble a good team somewhere along the way but won't be booking any hotels come September. Ulster dominance is not all it's cracked up to be
Quote from: tyroneman on June 30, 2008, 08:40:07 PM
Don't expect them to get to the semi, more the QF in all honesty.
But - it's a possibility though that with a win over Fermanagh and with a handy draw the SF could be on. It's the potential ability to get beyond that - into and winning the final that marks contenders out - and I cannot see Armagh doing that this year.
Yes, we got that. now, as a discussion board we'd be eternally grateful for your reasoning.
Quotetyroneman - if you have a point to make, though i don't know what it is, do so with coherant and relevent arguments. discounting armagh's chances of challenging for sam in 2008 because "they came last in the 2003 all ireland final" illustrates perfectly your level of intellect. ridiculous points like that are as irrelevent as armagh men claiming to be better than tyrone because they comfortably despatched the team that beat them.
Maybe Uladh if you took the time to read in context, rather than lecture me on "coherant" argumnents, you would see the point I was actually making was that since 2003 Armagh have not appeared in an AI final. That's a long enough gap for a team, containing many of the same players, that are supposedly contenders in 2008.
Since 2003 they have been in 1 AI semi final, which they lost. They lost both games last year and have beaten Cavan and Down this year - neither team work beaters. Can you please tell me what marks them out as serious contenders on that basis?
QuoteYes, we got that. now, as a discussion board we'd be eternally grateful for your reasoning.
Again, if you take the time to read, I already gave you my reasoning - they don't have a good enough forward unit.
So if narrowly losing to two Ulster teams last year makes them non-contenders, surely beating two Ulster teams makes them contenders on your basis?
Quote from: tyroneman on June 30, 2008, 08:49:40 PM
the point I was actually making was that since 2003 Armagh have not appeared in an AI final. That's a long enough gap for a team, containing many of the same players, that are supposedly contenders in 2008.
How many of this team played in 2003?
Quote from: tyroneman on June 30, 2008, 08:49:40 PM
Can you please tell me what marks them out as serious contenders on that basis?
certainly i never claimed they were anything of the sort so its for those who did to justify it.
It does occur to me that you have gone a very long way out of your way, and onto an armagh thread, to make sure we all know that you think armagh won't win the all ireland. great to see the oul tyrone jealousy is alive and well whenever their confidence has gone.
My own tuppence worth -
Surprised by how poor Down were in the first 20 minutes especially. How in the name of allah did Armagh not finish the game off at this point? Where was the Down confidence from the Tyrone win? But Armagh always make it hard for themselves - it's been the same story since 1999.
Thought Clarke was the difference between the sides. Others did well, eg. Stephen Kernan, Ciaran McKeever, Charlie Vernon first half. Brendan Donaghy settled well on the wing. A very composed and athletic player, and a good ball player. He was harshly booked early on and i hope this is the only reason he was eventually subbed.
Over the past 2 games there have been positives and negatives for Armagh.
Positives: Under new management there was always the question whether Armagh would have the same organisation, drive and pure stubbornness that has characterised them since 1999. All of that still seems to be there and it's a very strong foundation to build on. Clarke seems to be taking up where he left off in 2006 and is virtually unmarkable. Other players, esp. Stephen Kernan are taking some of the scoring pressure off himself and McDonnell. The likes of Vernon and Toner are adding more to the team this year. There's a bit more variety to Armagh's play now- the direct kick into the 2 forwards is mixed a bit with the strong running of the likes of Vernon. The subs that came on did well and got us over the line. The subs bench looks better this year than it's been for a while.
Negatives: yesterday showed when Martin O'Rourke isn't there we struggle badly to win any breaking ball around the middle. This needs to be addressed. The final score tallies have been quite good, but some good possession has been wasted by overcomplicated play, wrong final pass, or wasteful shooting (similar in may ways to McDonnell's under 21 team of 2 years back). Could do with getting the ball in quicker at times to the 2 forwards - esp. yesterday when Clarke was winning everything at a canter -why hold it up? Lost the midfield battle after 20/25 mins yesterday. Maybe the management need to take a serious look now at whether McGrane can last the 70 minutes against a decent midfield? To be fair though, Down possibly have the best midfield(er) in the country at the minute. Too many frees are being conceded. I could see Fermanagh winning a load of frees in the final.
Overall, a solid if unspectacular performance by Armagh with some good elements and some bad - but not bad considering playing half the game with 14 men. Another step up in performance is needed to beat Fermanagh though and progress further this year, but i'd be hopeful that there's more in reserve.
Quote from: screenexile on June 30, 2008, 10:50:37 AM
Quote from: mackers on June 30, 2008, 10:22:06 AM
Agree with a lot that has been said by the Armagh posters here, concerns over the midfield sector throughout the league resurfaced yesterday. Gordon always seemed to be in position for the catch before McGrane and therefore left McGrane jumping behind him. MOR getting sent off left us with our main breaking ball winner on the line and it could've cost us the match. I have sung his praises quite a bit on the board but yesterday he showed all his negative points. Like Goats I noticed that Brian Mallon was ready to come on presumably for MOR as it was obvious that the red mist had descended and it was only a matter of time before he was sent off. Benny O'Kane was constantly running over to him to try to settle him.
Thought that Aidan started off poorly but as the game went on he became very influential. Charlie Vernon started off like a house on fire but several big hits took it out of him and eventually he blew a gasket. Yes, he does make a few mistakes but Jaysus lads it was his second championship match, he's still settling in, give him time, bit like Stephen Kernan who's just now starting to show what a good player he is.
Ronan Clarke was awesome and as somebody else said he is the best full forward in Ireland (and that includes Kieran Donaghy).
Ciaran McKeever had a great game and showed that he can play as well as a defensive stopper as he can as an attacking wing back, he really has it all. See the Irish News and a few posters on here calling him cynical but him and Coulter were at it all the way through the match.
I am concerned about the Fermanagh match as they will run at us in the same way as Down did and we need to be more disciplined in our tackling, haven't got a chance to watch the rerun but it felt at the time that McQuillan gave a lot of soft frees. We may face the same scenario in the final.
::) ::) ::) ::) Of course he is! I mean playing well against Cavan and Down is the same as being undoubtedly the best FF in 2 Championship seasons whilst winning the AI in both!
What are you talking about???? I think that Ronan Clarke has done a bit more that play well against Cavan and Down in his career!! Try out playing Seamus Moynihan in an AI final when he was 19, won us an Ulster title in 2006 virtually single handedly. Ask Armagh supporters whether they would swap Clarke for Donaghy and the majority would give you the same answer. No f**king chance!! Is it a coincidence that he was absent in our worst championship year for a decade? Would Donaghy have scored that point into the wind in the first half?
Quote from: downgirl on June 30, 2008, 06:04:40 PM
dodgy umpire's point was that if a man is fouled he deserves a free, I was annoyed at the decision in Newry at the end of normal time when a free was awarded against paul mccumiskey when it really wasn't a free...check out this video of the match on you tube especially at about 1:58 it will show you exactly why I and many other Down supporters were annoyed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32oyPdlSfIQ
Was wondering does that link show the point that was clearly wide in the 2nd half
against Tyrone, even the down lads around me were wondering why it was given,
were you as annoyed with anyone over that? swings and roundabouts my dear....
QuoteCan you please tell me what marks them out as serious contenders on that basis?
Who do you reckon are the contenders then?
Kerry, Mayo, Cork & Tyrone? (Going on previous finals??)
I'd be happy with Armagh's chances against 3 of those teams! ;)
Generally happy with the result but you still get the feeling there's a bit in the tank. difficult making proper assessments from watching on tv but any day we beat down is a good day's work.
it was pleasing that when the areas of the team that had functioned well against cavan dodn't against down others stepped up. The half back line had been generally poor against cavan but mckeever and o'rourke were excellent in their own way on sunday.
There are obviously worries after every game but generally the team is progressing well. the energy, movement and triple blanket defence that fermanagh will throw up is another puzzle that Peter McDonnell will have to solve but i think Armagh have the ability to beat them.
Quote from: Malone Aristocrat on June 30, 2008, 09:10:39 AM
Quote from: Lazer on June 19, 2008, 02:23:13 PM
And, the great thing about the match being in Clones, will be the glorious drive home through Armagh, with the Down flags flying to celebrate our win!
Remind me again - how many times have Armagh won the All Ireland?
Quote from: Red Army on June 21, 2008, 05:00:42 PM
Armagh are a team on their knees hoping for one last howray.
Yes Down are a division 3 team, Armagh should have no difficulty in winning if league form is to be believed.
The thing that kills Armagh people most is the fact they won only 1 sam in their so called period of dominance. Now that the sleeping Mourne giant is awakening and normal service is about to be resumed Armagh have nothing only one last shot at an Ulster title.
Quote from: feetofflames on June 23, 2008, 10:26:04 AM
I see this game as a fascinating battle between the old and the the new rich. Between Good and evil and between fine silk threads and a stolen jumper. Armagh are in dreamland - the country is talking about them, which is alll they wanted anyway, and they have had to play very little football to have this reputation. Armagh will be very concious that they have now won an awful lot of Ulster titles and yet have consistently failed to get it up on the big occasion.
Put this into context - Armagh have won 6 of the last 9 ulsters, have appeared in 2 all Irelands and one of them they took the back door route, Deep in their psychie will be the knowledge that Armagh footballers have an underachieveing gene in their make up - and that cant be nice. Armagh will be happy enough to plod away through the back door after this weekend where a meeting with Tyrone awaits them.
Down by 5
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 11:34:30 AM
Its the Aristocracy v Nouveau Riche. A team that wants to play fast flowing, attractive football v puke football. Down play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Armagh think they invented football in 2002. The tide is turning in Ulster, the favourites are dropping like horses at the canal turn on Grand National day. proper order to be restored on Sunday evening. Down by 5 points.
Quote from: buglebhoy on June 27, 2008, 02:42:51 PM
Bellew to go off (if he can climb out of bennys pocket) with a fake injury because he's getting roasted
Ambrose will get man of the match with 4 points from play
Paul McGrane to announce his retirement after the game.......... again!!!
Quote from: Down Gael on June 27, 2008, 10:53:29 PM
Could you just explain one little thing to me. What was it like standing in Croke Park in 2003 watchin Peter Canavan lift Sam. What was it like to stand there as a loser. Was it as bad as 77 or 53 ? Is it worse to lose to another Ulster team in an All Ireland final than it is to our southern counterparts? Just explain to us Down men what its like :D
Obviously most of these contributions came in the final few days when the dawning of reality led the kids to cling to whatever they could – ancient history.
Touche
Thought Colm O'Rourke blasted Down's illusions of grandeur out of the water beautifully. Paraphrasing obviously : Never been beaten by Kerry? that's because they haven't played them often enough - 5 All Irelands is all well and good but where were they the other 120 odd years. Aristocrats me hole (not his).
Did Colm mention that 5 will always be greater than 1 ;)
See, that sort of nonsense doesn't bother me, I was convinced I'd never see Armagh win an All Ireland and I did, so I'm happy enough. The standard of some of the Down postings on this site makes me think that not too many of them would remember Down's last win in '94.
Quote from: Down Gael on July 01, 2008, 02:54:03 PM
Did Colm mention that 5 will always be greater than 1 ;)
is there not a different type of drum for you hoors to bang this time of year.
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 02:53:04 PM
Some or all of Moriarty, Bellew, McKeever and possibly s kernan should be under review
You are a good judge of a footballer Uladh ??? ::)
Ah Crossfire if you followed closely you will see Uladh siad S kernan would not be under threat in his team. Read all the posts first mate.
once again you have demonstrated your inability to read...
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: full back on June 26, 2008, 05:49:00 PM
SK has to start uladh, although you may not rate him in this type of game he had a very good game last day out, and I hope he keeps the form up for this game
Eh, i agree...
Quote from: Uladh on June 26, 2008, 03:10:09 PM
SK has won me over this spring with his league form and i have him down as a starter.
Uladh,
I did not mention Stephen Kernan in my last post. You mentioned 4 players that should be under review and in my opinion they all performed very well.
Seeing you did mention S.K. I am glad that you have eventually seen the light!
Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material. Obviously yourself and a few others on this board are "slow learners".
Quote from Crossfire: "Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material".
Correct.
Stephen Kernan proved himself as an excellent footballer during Armagh's U21 success in 2004. It is no surprise that he is now shining in the senior jersey. For all players it takes a while to progress from U21 to senior. Stephen is a wonderful footballer who is a pleasure to watch with his accurate score taking and selling dummies to opponents to create space for himself. He is the master of selling a dummy in crowded areas to send his opponent the wrong way. Like his father Joe before him he wears the orange jersey with distinction.
Quote from: armawman on July 01, 2008, 10:33:49 PM
Quote from Crossfire: "Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material".
Correct.
Stephen Kernan proved himself as an excellent footballer during Armagh's U21 success in 2004. It is no surprise that he is now shining in the senior jersey. For all players it takes a while to progress from U21 to senior.
I have no problem with that. what i did have a problem was him geting the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him.
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 09:55:38 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 27, 2008, 03:26:41 PM
Jasus lads, everyone is getting a bit edgy, maybe its championship nerves, the banter here is great, you couldnt beat it with a big stick.
But seriously you down guys are banging on about all these all irelands and that way back when men wore caps while playing football and the goalies smoked pipes, and it was a pigs head or bladder was being booted round the field, the tv was black and white, i bet 90% of yous on here couldnt even enjoy the last in 94 becasue ye were only wee cubs still running round in nappies, for the older folk yes i can take on board their arguments but you boys really werent around to celebrate it properly like us Armagh men
;)
(Reply by Genuine Down Man)
I consider myself young at heart and still playing, albeit 3rds. In my life time we have secured 5, five, cuig, fünf, cinco, vijf, (I love the way most Arma folk I encounter have difficulty believing this digit exists). Unfortunately for you this is something I have that you nor none of your widest extended family will ever experience, but you can dream. Call it smug if you like but you cannot take it away from me. Stop talking about such great things already, you nor no one you know is qualified on these matters.
Still and all, we can be content to gift you Sunday's game safe in the knowledge that, should you bt Fermanagh, you will again raise anxiousness as representatives of Ulster GAA by bringing puke football on to the hallowed turf plus with the added recurring risk of Ulster humiliation, embarrassing and ignominious failure yet again. Accept it, this has been your history.
I was interested by one of your posts which mentioned Sligo v Down and the Murphy cup. I love this craic. Talk about leading with your chin? (I though Arma men were wilier that that).
I remember being at Croker (or in Arma's case Choker) when yous grasped a lucky draw from the clutches of victory against who? SLIGO. O ye of the goldfish memories.
The above exchange shut up Ulagh and his ilk last weekend. It still remains totally accurate today despite Arma's deserved win at the weekend. Although some of the simpler Arma men on this thread find this fact sickening its remains true.
Hope Arma don't shame Ulster again when they get to play at Choker.
:D
Ah, desperate posts like that make sunday all the more satisfying.
Nothing like graciousness in defeat Onion Bag!!
Quote from: crossfire on July 01, 2008, 09:30:26 PM
Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material. Obviously yourself and a few others on this board are "slow learners".
You my friend are a slow learner. I know plenty of good footballers who are genuine county material, I would not have them near the Armagh team yet.
I said:
Quote from Crossfire: "Most knowledgeable football followers were aware this past couple of years that he was a good footballer and genuine county material".
Correct.
Stephen Kernan proved himself as an excellent footballer during Armagh's U21 success in 2004. It is no surprise that he is now shining in the senior jersey. For all players it takes a while to progress from U21 to senior.
Uladh replied to this by saying:
I have no problem with that. what i did have a problem was him geting the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him.
You say you have no problem with the claim that Stephen was an excellent footballer at U21 level and with the claim that he is now shining in the Armagh jersey. But you have a problem that he got "the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him".
So you claim that there are "equally talented footballers" who didn't get the opportunity Stephen received. Stephen Kernan has scored 1 goal and five points in the two championship matches played this season. He is our top scorer from play – this is a huge achievement seeing that our team also includes Ronan Clarke and Stephen McDonnell. He was named man – of – the – match in The Irish News for Sunday's performance and has been warmly praised by media pundits. He has also been warmly praised by his colleagues – for example Ronan Clarke has heaped praise on him during post – match interviews. He was instrumental in the 2004 U21 success and highly regarded by manager peter Rafferty.
Yet you say that there are a number of "equally talented footballers" who should have had their chance before him. If that is the case, then Armagh must have a number of other players out there who could also give man – of – the – match performances, score a goal and five over two championship games, receive universal praise among media pundits and be instrumental to our success. How come Peter McDonnell doesn't know about them? How come he doesn't play them? Why are these "equally talented footballers" being hidden away somewhere and not getting their chance?
The reality is if any footballer in Armagh is "equally talented" to Stephen Kernan then he's one hell of a footballer. Stephen Kernan oozes class and it is a joy to watch him in the orange jersey. A man of this ability deserved every chance he got to make progress and Armagh fans should be eternally grateful that he was given these chances. The people who gave Stephen his chances knew he was a player of great potential and he has proved them 100% correct.
Jesus are you his spokesman or something?
Read through Uladh's posts one more time, he said he wants him on his team and he deserves to be there.
I think he believes, and many others, that his league form or previous games did not warrant a championship starting place last year. He had a great leaue campaign for Armagh this year and is worthy of his place. Read the posts properly before going on a rant.
In reply to Corn:
My last message referred solely to Uladh's previous post - I quoted from his post. I wasn't referring to any of his other posts, I was referring to this one. My whole message referred to this post from Uladh.
You then tell me to go and read his other posts. But I wasn't talking about them, I was dealing solely with the comments he made in his last post. You then, after making no specific reference to the points I have made, order me for my homework to "Read the posts properly before going on a rant". Could you point out where I've gone "on a rant" and which points I have made that are inaccurate?
If i explained it to you again you still wouldn't my point.
Players' girlfriends should be banned from posting
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2008, 01:23:52 PM
I know plenty of good footballers who are genuine county material, I would not have them near the Armagh team yet.
A bit of a contradiction there Corn.
Name the good footballers you are talking about
Quote from: Uladh on July 01, 2008, 11:30:20 PM
I have no problem with that. what i did have a problem was him geting the opportunity to fast track his progress before equally talented footballers and in front of players who were already at levels above him.
Name the equally talented footballers and also the players that you say were already at levels above S K
There's not much of an argument to be had on this. Stephen has done well this year and long may that continue. But he has been a slow burner on the senior set up - this is his fourth or fifth year on the panel and to put it kindly his performances before this year didn't set the world alight. It was only last year that he couldn't get on his club team (albeit a very good one!) so Armagh supporters were entitled to ask how he was getting appearances for the county.
SK didn't really impress with his performances last year, but the whole Kernan nepotism issue may have been a self fulfilling prophecy, he may feel under less pressure this year.
I've just watched the game on Setanta, the commentator pointed out that Down had suffered more championship defeats to Armagh than any other team, long may it last!!
Watched the game last night on setanta and was shocked at some of Down`s misses, also felt that throughout the game Down got the benefit from some handy frees which were given solely because they werent physically strong enough in the challenge,
after sunday`s game I felt that Armagh were woeful in midfield in the second half but when watching it again the reason why midfield looked so poor was because we were winning no breaking ball, credit to down for this.
On the sending off to me it looked a yellow card at the time and last night it still looked a late challenge so he should have no complaints
Quote from: crossfire on July 02, 2008, 10:00:08 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2008, 01:23:52 PM
I know plenty of good footballers who are genuine county material, I would not have them near the Armagh team yet.
A bit of a contradiction there Corn.
Name the good footballers you are talking about
Not really county material as in some day they may be good enoufg, as in S Kernan before this year. Doesn't mean they should start.
Armawman - it's called context dear, that's why you should read more than one post.
Stephen Kernan was one of a number of players coming out of those successful u21 sides who had the potential to make it at senior level.
For the following 2/3 years you would have a hard time seperating the likes of kernan, austin, loughran, swift, vernon, courtney, lavery, mackin and toal to name some of the potentials. It annonyed people that a similar level of potential from Stephen to the others merited constant national league and frequent championship appearances in that period when his performances at senior level did not merit them. The previously named players got much less opportunity to stake a claim and therefore develop into senior football.
The most annoying part came then when big joe felt that his previous potential merited championship inclusion in front of, not only those with similar potential, but also in front of players like paddy mc keever, marty o'rourke, etc. all of this before he had produced any sort of football for armagh.
thankfully now stephen has shown his worth throught the league and first two championship games and we, as armagh men, are all the better for it.
i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.
Well said The GAA.
The man is playing some stuff, long may it continue.
Quote from: The GAA on July 03, 2008, 02:41:51 PM
i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.
I think that is the best way of putting what people have being trying to say.
Quote from: The GAA on July 03, 2008, 02:41:51 PM
Stephen Kernan was one of a number of players coming out of those successful u21 sides who had the potential to make it at senior level.
For the following 2/3 years you would have a hard time seperating the likes of kernan, austin, loughran, swift, vernon, courtney, lavery, mackin and toal to name some of the potentials. It annonyed people that a similar level of potential from Stephen to the others merited constant national league and frequent championship appearances in that period when his performances at senior level did not merit them. The previously named players got much less opportunity to stake a claim and therefore develop into senior football.
The most annoying part came then when big joe felt that his previous potential merited championship inclusion in front of, not only those with similar potential, but also in front of players like paddy mc keever, marty o'rourke, etc. all of this before he had produced any sort of football for armagh.
thankfully now stephen has shown his worth throught the league and first two championship games and we, as armagh men, are all the better for it.
i believe he would have arrived at this point much earlier in his career had he not been fast tracked and and put in intolerably pressurised situations by his father before he was ready. he's in good form and lets hope the pressure of expectation does not dent that from now on.
Thats about right
Can we delete this thread yet????
Every time I log on and see it in the Gaa Discussion still so high up on the list of threads I feel sick and it take me back to a sad place in my life :'(
This is for the good of my sanity??? Any chance at all?
Thank you very much for your co-operation ;)
QuoteWatched the game last night on setanta and was shocked at some of Down`s misses, also felt that throughout the game Down got the benefit from some handy frees which were given solely because they werent physically strong enough in the challenge,
after sunday`s game I felt that Armagh were woeful in midfield in the second half but when watching it again the reason why midfield looked so poor was because we were winning no breaking ball, credit to down for this.
On the sending off to me it looked a yellow card at the time and last night it still looked a late challenge so he should have no complaints
Was the sending off not given for a second yellow card??
yes it looked a yellow at the time and it still looks like it deserved a yellow