http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=95&si=1739623&issue_id=14990
A fairly predictable list
1 Kerry
2 Tyrone
3 Armagh
4 Mayo
5 Dublin
6 Cork
7 Galway
8 Laois
9 Donegal
10 Derry
11 Offaly
12 Wexford
13 Fermanagh
14 Meath
15 Westmeath
16 Kildare
17 Down
18 Monaghan
19 Louth
20 Limerick
21 Roscommon
22 Cavan
23 Longford
24 Sligo
25 Leitrim
26 Clare
27 Tipperary
28 Antrim
29 Carlow
30 Wicklow
31 Waterford
32 London
Looks about right.
And yes Tyrone fans, we know you had an injury plagued year!!!
Is 24th not a bit harsh on us when you look at Westmeath at 15th!
I would say 23th for longford is harsh.
And galway at 7th is too generous.
There are not many teams u would put below ye that are above ye seanie, with possibly the exception of down
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 11, 2006, 04:20:44 PM
Is 24th not a bit harsh on us when you look at Westmeath at 15th!
Is 15th not a bit harsh on us when you look at Galway at 7th???
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 11, 2006, 04:20:44 PM
Is 24th not a bit harsh on us when you look at Westmeath at 15th!
They did make the 1/4 finals in fairness
Quote from: dubnut on December 11, 2006, 04:54:33 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on December 11, 2006, 04:20:44 PM
Is 24th not a bit harsh on us when you look at Westmeath at 15th!
They did make the 1/4 finals in fairness
I think Seanie's still eating them sour grapes he was sampling during the summer! ;)
Longford 23rd is a fcuk up, Sligo probably better than 24th too (as any Down man will tell you).
Quote from: dubnut on December 11, 2006, 04:18:39 PM
Looks about right.
And yes Tyrone fans, we know you had an injury plagued year!!!
Personally, I think we're a little high on that list. Top 5 maybe.
I don't think there's all that great a difference in standard between any of the teams outside the top 3/4 and bottom 6/7, and most in that middle territory could make a case to be higher up the list.
Quote from: AN other on December 11, 2006, 05:25:49 PM
I don't think there's all that great a difference in standard between any of the teams outside the top 3/4 and bottom 6/7, and most in that middle territory could make a case to be higher up the list.
True, its an impossible task except for maybe the very top and very bottom
the ranking is based on Martin Breheny's opinion rather than performance in this years league and championship. The performance table has Kerry, Mayo, Dublin and Armagh as the top 4. If Tyrone had not the injuries they would be definately higher than 10th (in truth probably 2nd). So all in all it is a fairly accurate however. Cork are a team i think could be in the reckoning next year too.
13th is respectable but surely we should be higher in the rankings than Derry and Wexford??
How are these rankings arrived at?
QuoteHow are these rankings arrived at?
Out of the depths of Martin Breheny's skull.
Just his own opinion. No reason to get worked up about them IMO.
Apart from the top 4 or 5 teams in the country the next 15 after that could all beat each other on any given day so you could stick them in any order really.
yep, very true
17th is awfully high for county Down. ;)
Quote17th is awfully high for county Down
If you get a reputation for early rising, you can stay in bed until noon......
Some of you boys get very worked up about rankings. There's no medals for being ranked highly. The only rank that matters is when you're climbing the steps in the Hogan in September. I couldn't care less if Tyrone was ranked 34th - it's how we perform in 2007 that I care about.
when we haven't won anything rankings become very important!! ;D
Rankings smankings. When Tyrone won in 2003 and 2005 they were never top of the rankings list. When Armagh won it they weren't top. When Kerry won it this year I'd say many wouldn't have had them top at the start of the year.
However tis all a bit of craic. A bit like Celebrity Come Dancing.
Its exactly like strictly come dancing, couldn't have come up with a better analogy ;)
On performance Tyrone would be down the list due to the obvious situation last year. But on opinion surely Tyrone should be number 1, they have beat Kerry in their last 2 championship meetings in 03 and 05. and with a fully fit team next year Id be confident they will do it again. The only other change I would make would be to swicth fermanagh and wexford, irrespective of the championship win they would be a better side, and I dont particularly like them even. But Derrys ranking as higher than fermanagh is just!
Has the GAA Board rankings thread been moved over from the old board. From memory Its fairly comparable to Brehenys.. Did the auld tart copy it?
"But on opinion surely Tyrone should be number 1, they have beat Kerry in their last 2 championship meetings in 03 and 05"
Kerry are the champs, Tyrone lost their first game and then went out of the championship in the play offs this year.
And did feck all in the league.
Yes they had injuries but you cant honestly put them as no1 on that basis.
Based on who beat who last I could argue that Dublin be ahead as they beat Tyrone in the last competitive game and made the semis.
But you cant judge it on beating a team ahead of you.
then Derry can claim to be ahead of Tyrone, and Longford to be ahead of Derry and therefore Tyrone who Derry beat.
Its not an accurate way of judging.
If Tyrone come back injury free and prove they dont need Canavan then maybe you will have a case this time next year.
Quote from: FermPundit on December 11, 2006, 05:45:13 PM
13th is respectable but surely we should be higher in the rankings than Derry and Wexford??
How are these rankings arrived at?
Why would ye be higher than Derry??
limerick's position is probably just about right.
There's a great view from up here on our lofty perch....but its a quick fall back down to Cork's level,
so we will enjoy it while we have it.
As someone else said, its having Sam Maguire for the year that really matters.
as a lily i have to say longford are well below us but def would have taken us last year. to be fair though once you go down the numbers there is little between the teams.
Dubnut, as it was stated these are opinion, not based on last years champions but on the best team. So I was simply stating that Tyrone are the better side, they are in at 2 in the rankings, and that is nothing to do with last years, otherwise on facts they would be around 10/11. But why put them at 2 and not 1, as on their day they are probably the best. We've heard it b4 about injuries, and it is a fact. Tyrone cant be judged on games such as derry/louth/laois when they were missing up to 7/8 starting players from their best side. They had a poor start the league, but turned it around and had some good wins, notably over a full strength kerry. As for the Canavan debate, he was/is a great player. But lots of people are making an issue out of how tyrone will cope without him. In 2005 he rarely played, he hit 1-1 in the final which was great but I think tyrone showed they can survive without him. The Ulster finals of that year against armagh, canavan wasnt involved in PLAY, and against urselves.
Nrico, I just dont agree that form from a year and a half ago should mean they rank no 1 now.
Simple as that.
They may well win next year with a full team, or may not.
As you say, its all about opinions and this talk of ranking can only cause arguments, and doesnt mean a thing.
I'm sure Kerry wouldnt be upset to be at no2 on this list while Sam is in their possesion.
QuoteThe Ulster finals of that year against armagh, Canavan wasnt involved in PLAY
Indeed. I don't suppose the fact that Tyrone didn't win those games sheds any light on how they perform without their God.
Tyrone are a good team without Canavan, there isn't much clear evidence that they are No 1 though.
Tyrone played the majority of matches last yr without canavan. In the drawn ulster final and replay. He was wrongly sent off within a minute of coming on in that game. In the dub games also, he wasnt on and look how well tyrone played, and in the subsequent semi he came on and hit the free. I dont think tyrone need to prove they can play without him, cos they have already shown they can. As u say dubnut, opinion is going to lead to arguments. My opinion is that tyrone are the best when they are at full strength, simple as that. Kerry would be second. But on the facts, no matter what the circumstances were last year, kerry are no1 now, with mayo 2nd and so on.
Here's how that list compares to my statisitical rankings
Indo ranking on left, mine on right:
1 Kerry - 1
2 Tyrone - 2
3 Armagh - 3
4 Mayo - 4
5 Dublin - 5
6 Cork - 7
7 Galway - 11
8 Laois - 6
9 Donegal - 8
10 Derry - 10
11 Offaly - 13
12 Wexford - 15
13 Fermanagh - 9
14 Meath - 14
15 Westmeath - 12
16 Kildare - 22
17 Down - 16
18 Monaghan - 19
19 Louth - 23
20 Limerick - 17
21 Roscommon - 24
22 Cavan - 21
23 Longford - 18
24 Sligo - 20
25 Leitrim - 26
26 Clare - 25
27 Tipperary - 28
28 Antrim - 29
29 Carlow - 27
30 Wicklow - 30
31 Waterford - 31
32 London - 32
if the ranking are based on results in the championship
then surely Derry should be above tyrone (and longford above Derry !)
but I would expect this is a subjective table that is based on gut feeling as much as results etc
and not too far off the mark
except that Derry are imo higher than their performances suggested imo
Star spangler - I'd love to see Tyrone ranked 34th
Jeez the whinging out of you boys then would be something else! :D
I think ye are all missing the point the man made on these rankings. The rankings in the independent I thiought anyway were a look forward to 2007. He then went on to name the counties in their order that he thought had a chance of winning the All Ireland next year and he then gave a small CV of each county, but both the ranking and the reference to each team referred to 2007.
Why don't someone do a ranking on what county managers pocketed instead. I know one that got 100,000 a free car and a years free house rental in a smashing new house in a fine estate.
Can someone please tell me for the love of god why Meath football is ranked so high?
So what's the best way to rank counties?
League and championship performance together over a year, with increasing value for each win as the year progresses?
Say 1 point for league win, half point for draw, 2 bonus points for making league semi-finals, 2 points for league semi-final win, 5 for winning league.
Then 3 for each championship win, 5 for provincial title, 2 for each qualifier win, 7 for semi-final win, 10 for Sam.
Should a team get a bonus of 2 points for making a provincial final (hardly in Munster, but in Ulster it seems fair to do so).
The big question then becomes...who has time to figure all this out for 2006? and 2005? and 2004?
Let's agree on the points awarding method first, and we'll see from there.
Quote
The big question then becomes...who has time to figure all this out for 2006? and 2005? and 2004?
Hound, above, has already done this and a very good job it was. Hound's ranking reflects past performance, Brehony seems to be predicting the 2007 season, yet they are quite similar. The question for the front runners is whether Kerry are quite as good after some retirements, and whether Tyrone will get back the likes of McGuigan and whether they can really cope with the retirement of their deity.
Thanks armaghniac...Hound, what was your scoring system and the length of your timeframe? Diminishing points for previous years? Or just one year by itself?
Thanks, BH.
how in Gods name are Longford and Sligo ranked below us Cavan boys.... :o
On this years performances we should be about 26th with Clare and Leitrim ahead of us.
Ball Hopper, Hound will explain his own system, but it was based on diminishing weights over a 5 year period.
Looking forward to seeing it, at Hound's convenience of course.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on December 12, 2006, 05:26:44 PM
So what's the best way to rank counties?
I'd say you can go far wrong with hound's system
As with the FIFA rankings, there could be teams near the top that are consistently strong but you know there not much chance of them winning the world cup.
1 Brazil 1588
2 Italy 1560
3 Argentina 1551
4 France 1523
5 England 1359
6 Germany 1348
7 Netherlands 1305
Likewise in the AI it takes that little bit extra to push through and actually win it.
People will continue to say Mayo don't have the bottle to win it until they prove them wrong.
I've always found the Hound's ranking to be pretty realisitic and they are founded on a sound rationale. They look closer to the mark.
10 bonus points for Sligo !
Donegal 8th, possibly correct, but we will be a force to be reckoned with this season!!! ;)
Ran a test for 2005 and 2006 league and Championships. No weighting for 2006 being more recent (equal value for both years). My Rules were: Add total league points, with double for Div 1A and 1B; 2 points for losing league semi-final, 4 points for losing league final, 5 points for winning league. 3 points for provincial championship win, 5 points for provincial win. 2 points for every qualifier win. 5 points for quarter-final win, 7 for semi-final win, 10 for taking Sam home.
Here's the rankings with point totals:
1 Kerry 96
2 Mayo 74
3 Tyrone 72
4 Armagh 71
5 Dublin 60
6 Laois 51
7 Galway 50
8 Cork 47
9 Derry 43
10 Meath 39
11 Down 37
11 Wexford 37
13 Kildare 36
14 Donegal 34
15 Fermanagh 33
16 Offaly 32
17 Monaghan 29
18 Westmeath 28
19 Cavan 27
20 Louth 26
20 Limerick 26
22 Roscommon 22
23 Longford 21
24 Sligo 20
25 Clare 18
26 Leitrim 16
26 Carlow 16
28 Antrim 12
29 Tipperary 8
30 Wicklow 7
31 Waterford 6
32 London 0
All work filed under "Fodder for the Pub, Winter 2006".
Roscommon ahead of Sligo and Leitrim.... I don't think so! ???
What form is that based on?
Yeah i'd argee with Laois's position even though we had Mayo beaten with two minutes to go >:( and somehow fucked it up
Quote from: AhFeckRef on December 19, 2006, 08:11:18 PM
Roscommon ahead of Sligo and Leitrim.... I don't think so! ???
What form is that based on?
2006 League has Roscommon with 5 wins, Sligo 3, Leitrim 2. Leitrim has 1 win the last two championships.