...or geniui (sp) for youse pedantic hoors...
Who are the people who will be talked about on boards like this in 50 years time for their acheivements..not only football...
IMHO
Maurice Fitzgerald
Liam Og O Flionn
Gooch, best yet to come
Its Scary Gerry how good he's gonna be!!
I reckon he's already as good as any forward from the golden years.......he hasnt just done some of the outrageous stuff Mo Fitz has.
But apart from football who are the people we will be raving about in 20 or 30 years time. Music, business, art, whatever
i think he is a class act for his age, just think what he be in a few years with hopefully with no injuries. Love to watch all county players play with his ability and think to myself wished he played for us. or i say to my son " you keep at it and you could be like him"
Cooper will never be a Fitz nor a Canavan. He's an exceptional finisher but I saw enough in 2002, 2003 and 2005 to see he's not a 'great'.
Jasus he only 24. Sure pete gots us a ulster and a nearly an all ireland at tha age, But give him time .
DICK CHENEY, He made bush look smart for a while there, that took doing.
woody allen.
I was a big fan of Cantona's - he took no shit!
(http://www.uit.no/mancity/pictures/cantona2.jpg)
Tiger Woods
It must be taken into consideration that Cantona was one of the top players in the Premiership at a time when it was well below the level of other European leagues. Cantona wouldn't have made as much of an impact if he was playing now. That said he was a very good player and will go down as a Man Utd great but he was never anywhere near world class or a genius.
Tiger Woods, Lionel Messi (he will be spoke of in the same breath as Maradona in 5 years time).
That man in the weelchair hes a real living genius
Quote from: Armagh4SamAgain on December 01, 2007, 12:51:55 PM
That man in the weelchair hes a real living genius
Agree A4SA I loved the way he solved those cases
Quote from: Armagh4SamAgain on December 01, 2007, 12:51:55 PM
That man in the weelchair hes a real living genius
Just who I was going to say, Stephen Hawkings.
Quote from: ziggysego on December 01, 2007, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Armagh4SamAgain on December 01, 2007, 12:51:55 PM
That man in the weelchair hes a real living genius
Just who I was going to say, Stephen Hawkings.
So its not Ironside then! ;)
Quote from: hardstation on December 01, 2007, 01:59:27 PM
That would be bait, ziggy.
I'm in West Tyrone, bates to me boy!
Thats who i ment. He talks funny but hes a real genuis so he is.
Nelson Mandella
Thought about that Ziggy, but what defines a genius? someone who is smarter than others? someone who does things better than most? george Best/Pele/Maradona all footballing Genises(sp) Bill Gates computer genius Mandella political/reforming genius.
Bill Gates, Michael Dell, Warren Buffet and maybe Stephen Spielberg,
could list a bunch of sport stars but they would hardly be the true definition
of a genius even if they did excel in their respective fields.
Quote from: Square Ball on December 01, 2007, 03:43:53 PM
Thought about that Ziggy, but what defines a genius? someone who is smarter than others? someone who does things better than most? george Best/Pele/Maradona all footballing Genises(sp) Bill Gates computer genius Mandella political/reforming genius.
Someone (not sure who) once said that the line between genius and insanity is measured only by success.
There are a bunch of people who will attain genius status, many of them in areas we have never heard of. Scientists, engineers, mathematicians.
Sporting and musical and nerd genii who attain huge levels of business success are always going to steal the limelight from the rest of them.
Speaking of football legends...
(http://www.thisisanfield.com/pics/dalglish.jpg)
Quote from: ziggysego on December 01, 2007, 01:56:40 PM
Quote from: Armagh4SamAgain on December 01, 2007, 12:51:55 PM
That man in the weelchair hes a real living genius
Just who I was going to say, Stephen Hawkings.
Hawking is not really regarded as the genius in his field. His celebrity, partially due to his illness (and his success in continuing his career despite it) and the very popular "A Brief History of Time", have probably given the general public a distorted view of his standing. Many physicists disagreed with his positions over the years, and in the end he had to concede that his long-held views on black holes were wrong. He is probably similar to Stephen Jay Gould, who, supremely gifted popular science writer though he was, was not that highly regarded within the academic world of evolutionary biology, despite being publicly regarded, especially in America, as one of the leading minds in and
the public voice of the field.
Quote from: Puckoon on December 01, 2007, 06:17:49 PM
Quote from: Square Ball on December 01, 2007, 03:43:53 PM
Thought about that Ziggy, but what defines a genius? someone who is smarter than others? someone who does things better than most? george Best/Pele/Maradona all footballing Genises(sp) Bill Gates computer genius Mandella political/reforming genius.
Someone (not sure who) once said that the line between genius and insanity is measured only by success.
There are a bunch of people who will attain genius status, many of them in areas we have never heard of. Scientists, engineers, mathematicians.
Sporting and musical and nerd genii who attain huge levels of business success are always going to steal the limelight from the rest of them.
its a very thin line Puckoon, people you have mentioned do get very little recognition, Isambard Kingdom Brunell, Leonardo Da Vinci, Timothy Berners-Lee the Wright brothers were more than likely called insane in their day, and IMHO were Genii, oh and only one of these is still alive, i think
Were the likes of the Wright Brothers geniuses though? Their kind of work builds on the work of so many predecessors, that I don't think they could be regarded in the same (admittedly stratospheric) level as someone like Da Vinci. But then even Newtown did say "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."
Again what is the defination of Genius, I think the the Wright brothers would be classed a genius in the field of flight. These were all inventors I mentioned and were top of their given fields of expertise at that time, and that little streak of insanity pushed them further.
Roger Federer
Lionel Messi
Shane MacGowan
keano
I don't know if I'd agree with insanity, at least in the case of the Wright Brothers. Maybe they were very driven, and if the particular direction they took hadn't worked, they could have been branded as misguided for "wasting" their time, but innovation and invention is all about experimentation. There were numerous others, both predecessors and contemporaries, who worked or were working on the same problems. If the Wright brothers hadn't done it, its fairly certain someone else would have within a short time.
That goes for some like Darwin too (and he is a personal hero of mine). Darwin is rightly regarded as the father of modern biology and one of the greatest scientists and most influential men ever. But the state of knowledge at his time had advanced to such a stage that the discovery of natural selection was only a matter of time. Indeed, Alfred Russel Wallace independently came up with the idea in the 1850s, and his correspondence with Darwin was what finally forced Darwin to bite the bullet and finally publish "On the Origin of Species" after sitting on his ideas for two decades. Because Darwin had by that time marshalled the evidence, fleshed out his ideas and addressed them from every possible angle and objection, he is justly regarded as the more important of the pair, but if Darwin hadn't existed, Wallace might today occupy the exalted (or debased, if you're a religious fundamentalist in a state of denial and self-deception) position in general perception that Darwin does, as opposed to just being regarded within the field of biology as one of its most important founders.
Maybe that just means that both Darwin and Wallace were geniuses though! ;D
the very same, why?
Quote from: Square Ball on December 01, 2007, 09:01:49 PM
the very same, why?
Just surprised he is in a thread of "genius"
You think Mandella was a terrorist?
Freedom fighter?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 01, 2007, 09:10:31 PM
You think Mandella was a terrorist?
"Think"? He was, in his pre-meeting Blair, Spice Girls faze. Its no big secret.
:-\
What should he have done in SA? Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 01, 2007, 09:19:04 PM
:-\
What should he have done in SA? Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?
Was the discussion about Mandela? The point i am trying to make is people have short memories, he also continued to canvass for better prison conditions for one of the Libyans responsible for blowing up 300 people in the Lockerbie disaster. Tellingly Amnesty International removed him from their "prisoners of conscience" group in 1985 due to his "previous"........
I am fully aware of Mandellas past and still think the man was a genius, ones mans meat and all that.
I have no issue with anything Mandella done in his life. Although I wouldn't put him in "genius" category there is no doubt he's a hero.
I don't see what relevance his campaigning for better prison conditions has to do with anything.
Now, could you answer my questions.
What should he have done in SA? Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?
I didn't know people considered him as a terrorist anymore, at least not sane people. I'd be interested in your views.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 01, 2007, 09:27:28 PM
I have no issue with anything Mandella done in his life. Although I wouldn't put him in "genius" category there is no doubt he's a hero.
I don't see what relevance his campaigning for better prison conditions has to do with anything.
Now, could you answer my questions.
What should he have done in SA? Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?
I didn't know people considered him as a terrorist anymore, at least not sane people. I'd be interested in your views.
Pints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen", Mandela actually said in his book "Long Walk To Freedom" that he "signed off" terrorism after the ANC blew up 20 people in a car bomb in Church Street, he would have been released in 1985 if he renounced violence, he refused to. As for accepting minority rule, i cant really answer that question, there is no easy answer, but if blowing up innocent people got them what they wanted perhaps a certain kind of person could say the ends justified the means. I accept your opinion but i would never hold someone as a "hero" that murdered innocent people.
Quote from: SeanSouth on December 01, 2007, 09:23:35 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 01, 2007, 09:19:04 PM
:-\
What should he have done in SA? Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?
Was the discussion about Mandela? The point i am trying to make is people have short memories, he also continued to canvass for better prison conditions for one of the Libyans responsible for blowing up 300 people in the Lockerbie disaster. Tellingly Amnesty International removed him from their "prisoners of conscience" group in 1985 due to his "previous"........
I thought the "prisoners of conscience" thing happened in the 60s and was merely Amnesty not making an exception for someone like Mandela who thought violence against the Apartheid system was justified? And is it not telling that a couple of years back AI made Mandela an "Ambassador of Conscience"?
Mandela was also instrumental in getting Libya to hand over the Lockerbie suspects. And what is wrong with advocating that an prisoner be held in humane conditions. If any person would know anything about that, its Nelson Mandela.
QuotePints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen", Mandela actually said in his book "Long Walk To Freedom" that he "signed off" terrorism after the ANC blew up 20 people in a car bomb in Church Street, he would have been released in 1985 if he renounced violence, he refused to.
Why the hell would he?
Quote
As for accepting minority rule, i cant really answer that question, there is no easy answer, but if blowing up innocent people got them what they wanted perhaps a certain kind of person could say the ends justified the means. I accept your opinion but i would never hold someone as a "hero" that murdered innocent people.
:o
There is no easy answer? Why is there no easy answer? It's democracy - don't you agree with democracy?
Innocent people have been killed in wars since time began and sometimes the ends do justify the means.
I'll ask again, do you think the blacks in South Africa, and Mandella, should have accepted white minority rule? Yes or No?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on December 01, 2007, 09:41:23 PM
QuotePints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen", Mandela actually said in his book "Long Walk To Freedom" that he "signed off" terrorism after the ANC blew up 20 people in a car bomb in Church Street, he would have been released in 1985 if he renounced violence, he refused to.
Why the hell would he?
Quote
As for accepting minority rule, i cant really answer that question, there is no easy answer, but if blowing up innocent people got them what they wanted perhaps a certain kind of person could say the ends justified the means. I accept your opinion but i would never hold someone as a "hero" that murdered innocent people.
:o
There is no easy answer? Why is there no easy answer? It's democracy - don't you agree with democracy?
Innocent people have been killed in wars since time began and sometimes the ends do justify the means.
I'll ask again, do you think the blacks in South Africa, and Mandella, should have accepted white minority rule? Yes or No?
I dont think minority rule should be accepted anywhere,one thing i will ask is the country in a better state now than 20 years ago? We both know the answer to that. As for innocent people being killed "since time began" may well be the case, does that make it right? I just dont go along with the whole shite when people are asked for their dream dinner guests, and it goes something like "Mandela, Michael Jordan, Pele etc", its just lazy and the populist thing to say and nothing you say will make me believe otherwise. Rant over.
Quote
I dont think minority rule should be accepted anywhere,one thing i will ask is the country in a better state now than 20 years ago? We both know the answer to that. As for innocent people being killed "since time began" may well be the case, does that make it right? I just dont go along with the whole shite when people are asked for their dream dinner guests, and it goes something like "Mandela, Michael Jordan, Pele etc", its just lazy and the populist thing to say and nothing you say will make me believe otherwise. Rant over.
I don't know much about the current south africa but I would say that it's a better country than when it had white minority rule.
The deaths of innocents are always sad, the fact that people have to take up voilence is always sad but that does not mean we lie down and accept what's thrown at us and it does not mean blacks in SA should have lay down and accepted minority rule.
This is the third time I've asked now, what should Mandella and co have done in SA?
Point of order:
Michael dell and bill gates are business superstars, and although gates is an accomplished nerd, dell's genius lies solely in his business acumen
South Africa is far better than it was 20 years ago. Yes, crime is a major problem but it was back then and at least now the populace have equality before the law. Proof of Mandela's enduring genius.
No answer Sean South?
QuoteSouth Africa is far better than it was 20 years ago. Yes, crime is a major problem but it was back then and at least now the populace have equality before the law. Proof of Mandela's enduring genius.
Sorry deisach but this is a complete non sequitur.
Ireland is far better than it was 30 years ago, Proof of Patrick Hillery's enduring genius
Quote from: heganboy on December 02, 2007, 04:54:13 PM
Ireland is far better than it was 30 years ago, Proof of Patrick Hillery's enduring genius
:D Fair enough. I offer as evidence towards the idea that Mandela is a genius that South Africans of all races enjoy equality before the law, in no small part due to the efforts of Mandela. Suggestions that the levels of crime diminish Mandela's genius ignore that crime was bad back in the apartheid days.
As for Patrick Hillery, he certainly contributed to the enduring gaiety of our nation with his Ard Fheis attack on Kevin Boland: "you can have Boland, but you can't have Fianna Fáil!"
Quote from: SeanSouth on December 01, 2007, 09:36:03 PM
Pints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen"
I have to ask - if not in reference to Sean South of Garryowen - than which Sean South is your username in reference to?
Suprised nobody has mentioned Michael Jordan yet. As sporting genius' go he has very few peers.
People mentioning Keane, Daglish et al as genius' need their head examined - good, maybe even great players but genius' FFS ::)
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
Larry Bird
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
NOO, Chris Rea is miles better
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
NOO, Chris Rea is miles better
I might start listening to Chris Rea when I am 40. It is sign of hitting midlife when you buy one of his CDs for the car.
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
NOO, Chris Rea is miles better
I might start listening to Chris Rea when I am 40. It is sign of hitting midlife when you buy one of his CDs for the car.
I think you will find Dylan has never created anything to match the genius of 'Driving home for Christmas'
He was (just) before my time so I wouldn't offer any personal testimonials, but any Red over the age of 25 in Liverpool would go ballistic at the suggestion that Kenny Dalglish was anything other than a soccer genius. Even the Blues would raise their eyebrows.
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
NOO, Chris Rea is miles better
I might start listening to Chris Rea when I am 40. It is sign of hitting midlife when you buy one of his CDs for the car.
I think you will find Dylan has never created anything to match the genius of 'Driving home for Christmas'
Well f**k that anyway!
You mean to tell me all me time has been wasted?
I'd love to have been a fly on the wall when the muse first moved Chris Rea to write Driving Home For Christmas
Bean Counter: "Chris, I'd suggest you get a reliable annual hit on the radio for your pension fund"
Chris Rea: "Hmm, let me think . . . Eureka!"
And the rest is artistic integrity
Alex Ferguson.
Hateful hoor though he is what he has accomplished is astonishing and not even the great Robert Paisley comes close.
The man has won everywhere he has been and bringing Schmichel to OT for peanuts has to go down and one of the best signings of all time. Cantona was signed for a million and what a buy he turned out to be.
Jack O'Shea. The best all round player I ever saw. Pure genius.
John Morrison. Say no more.
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 01:53:24 PM
Alex Ferguson.
Hateful hoor though he is what he has accomplished is astonishing and not even the great Robert Paisley comes close.
The man has won everywhere he has been and bringing Schmichel to OT for peanuts has to go down and one of the best signings of all time. Cantona was signed for a million and what a buy he turned out to be.
Jack O'Shea. The best all round player I ever saw. Pure genius.
Paisley was a bit of a letdown alright, in 9 seasons as manager he had the following Ron Atkinson-esque record -
6 League Championships
3 European cups
1 Uefa Cup
3 League Cups
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 01:47:58 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:57:17 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 11:49:36 AM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on December 04, 2007, 11:18:15 AM
Quote from: Great Leap Forward on December 04, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Bob Dylan has to be included. The finest songwriter ever in many peoples opinion, including myself.
NOO, Chris Rea is miles better
I might start listening to Chris Rea when I am 40. It is sign of hitting midlife when you buy one of his CDs for the car.
I think you will find Dylan has never created anything to match the genius of 'Driving home for Christmas'
Well f**k that anyway!
You mean to tell me all me time has been wasted?
yes. bob packed it in when chris deburgh came on the scene anyway. said he couldn't handle the competition from the two chris'
QuotePaisley was a bit of a letdown alright, in 9 seasons as manager he had the following Ron Atkinson-esque record -
6 League Championships
3 European cups
1 Uefa Cup
3 League Cups
It is alright Sean. Sure no FA Cups ;)
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 01:53:24 PM
Alex Ferguson.
Hateful hoor though he is what he has accomplished is astonishing and not even the great Robert Paisley comes close.
Ferguson won 9 league titles and 1 European Cup in 21 years at Man U.
Paisley won 6 league titles and 3 European Cups in 9 years at Liverpool.
And Paisley's not even close?
there is only one real Sporting genius and this is Cassius clay/Mohommed ALI he truly shook the world and his effect can still be felt in the confidence he gave to people of all colours.
in pure talent terms the only one who comes close is Diego
Quote from: SeanSouth on December 04, 2007, 02:03:06 PM
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 01:53:24 PM
Alex Ferguson.
Hateful hoor though he is what he has accomplished is astonishing and not even the great Robert Paisley comes close.
The man has won everywhere he has been and bringing Schmichel to OT for peanuts has to go down and one of the best signings of all time. Cantona was signed for a million and what a buy he turned out to be.
Jack O'Shea. The best all round player I ever saw. Pure genius.
Paisley was a bit of a letdown alright, in 9 seasons as manager he had the following Ron Atkinson-esque record -
6 League Championships
3 European cups
1 Uefa Cup
3 League Cups
Paisley inherited a great team, ferguson forged great teams, therin lies the difference. I never said paisley was a letdown, I dont think he was half the manager Ferguson was, we will never know because Beefer Morrison could have managed that Liverpool team to greatness such was their dominance.
Quote from: rosnarun on December 04, 2007, 02:37:12 PM
there is only one real Sporting genius and this is Cassius clay/Mohommed ALI he truly shook the world and his effect can still be felt in the confidence he gave to people of all colours.
in pure talent terms the only one who comes close is Diego
Wayne Gretsky
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 02:43:52 PMPaisley inherited a great team, ferguson forged great teams, therin lies the difference. I never said paisley was a letdown, I dont think he was half the manager Ferguson was, we will never know because Beefer Morrison could have managed that Liverpool team to greatness such was their dominance.
What do figure 'dominance' to be? The Derby County team of the 70's won more league titles than Bill Shankly's 70's Liverpool team. It doesn't mean I think Paisley's achievements were greater than those of Ferguson, but no team ever dominated English soccer like Liverpool before Paisley, and despite the multiple successes of Madrid, Ajax and Bayern, only one manager (http://www.liverpoolheritageforum.org.uk/famous.php?id=55) has ever won three European Cups
Quote from: deiseach on December 04, 2007, 03:02:16 PM
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 02:43:52 PMPaisley inherited a great team, ferguson forged great teams, therin lies the difference. I never said paisley was a letdown, I dont think he was half the manager Ferguson was, we will never know because Beefer Morrison could have managed that Liverpool team to greatness such was their dominance.
What do figure 'dominance' to be? The Derby County team of the 70's won more league titles than Bill Shankly's 70's Liverpool team. It doesn't mean I think Paisley's achievements were greater than those of Ferguson, but no team ever dominated English soccer like Liverpool before Paisley, and despite the multiple successes of Madrid, Ajax and Bayern, only one manager (http://www.liverpoolheritageforum.org.uk/famous.php?id=55) has ever won three European Cups
Maybe so but again he didnt build that team, he was handed it and one number of men could have won with that team. Ferguson built his team, took them from mediocrity to now the most successful English team over the past twenty years.
Quote from: stew on December 04, 2007, 04:48:25 PMMaybe so but again he didnt build that team, he was handed it and one number of men could have won with that team. Ferguson built his team, took them from mediocrity to now the most successful English team over the past twenty years.
No less a figure than Shankly couldn't do it - they had their arse handed to them by Red Star Belgrade - so who these "number of men" who could have done it are, I'd like you to disclose.