So Connor Murphy has decided to introduce Water Charges in the North. Supported by Wee Jeffery on BBC NI tonight. Pathetic. Have they no integrity? I attach a picture of them pulling down their "No Water Charges" Posters from Connolly House in Andersonstown. Bastards. They sold us all out. I'm sick of them. Cue Donagh telling us why it's ok.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2281/1692131720_c4d9006a70.jpg?v=1193065743)
I am still waiting for them to speak up in support of Margaret Richie for withdrawing the UDA's gravy. Mc Guinness has said "the executive" does not support them getting the money but it would be interesting to hear the party stance.
Is it not til 2009 that we start paying? Also, I think that instead of London's £300-odd pounds recommendation for here, it's closer to a third of that.
Hey I think thats me about to drive past!
Can you read O'Neill - "No water charges - your money down the drain!". They fought the last election on no water charges.
Quote from: Guillem2 on October 22, 2007, 10:54:29 PM
So Connor Murphy has decided to introduce Water Charges in the North. Supported by Wee Jeffery on BBC NI tonight. Pathetic. Have they no integrity? I attach a picture of them pulling down their "No Water Charges" Posters from Connolly House in Andersonstown. Bastards. They sold us all out. I'm sick of them. Cue Donagh telling us why it's ok.
Very good Guillem2. I'm not that keen on paying water charges myself but unless Connolly House has been replaced since I was up last week collecting my wages and receiving the latest propaganda line, you've got your photos a bit mixed up there. Maybe you were lost? Looks to me like the one in Ardoyne that had a big mural painted on the side a few weeks back, so I assume you were lost in time as well as space when you snapped that one?
I was starting to doubt myself too.....
We are still waiting for you to tell us its ok Donagh..............A lying politician, who would have thought
Quote from: Balboa on October 22, 2007, 11:12:52 PM
We are still waiting for you to tell us its ok Donagh..............A lying politician, who would have thought
You own your own house then Balboa - you're a lucky chap.
So that's OK then? We're not paying water charges? ???
Is that a Sinn Fein Poster or not? Sell out. The bastards lied and sold us all out. We will be paying Water Charges in 18 months. Connor Murphy lied.
Quote from: hardstation on October 22, 2007, 11:17:28 PM
Quote from: drici on October 22, 2007, 11:15:13 PM
Orior has a red car.
Bet ya it's filled with red deisel too.
Thats just beside the Hole in the Wall, a dirty Tyrone supporting pub.
What's wrong with paying for water?
So what will Crystal Alliance do now? Perhaps the Government could let them rob a bank and then ride off into the english sunset. And Xansa will also want paid, and Steria too.
In most societies people pay for water. It costs money to purify it and deliver it to your tap. Sinn Fein were just lying when they said "No Water Charges". Connor Murphy has let everybody down. As has Sinn Fein.
They knew all along that water had to be paid for. As did the other Northern parties. Just another case of them wanting something for nothing.
BTW what happened to the great "Peace dividend" that Adam's promised? The Peace Dividend was going to pay for everything. Instead, Northern rate payers will pay for everything. You have all been sh*te upon in the North.
Good lad, on form like a true t**ker, never miss the opportunity...
Quote from: Sky Blue
Re: Non-Payment of water charges - only way to defeat them?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2007, 10:31:25 PM»
Another example of northerners not being prepared to pay their way! They pay these charges in Scotland, England & Wales. Why are you special? Pay your way you bunch of spongers!! Always standing with your hands out to Dublin, London & Brussels saying "give us something for nothing because we had the "troubles". Well I've news for ye. The world isn't interested any more! Things have moved on. There will be no more hand outs. GO AND GET PROPER JOBS AND PAY FOR YOUR OWN SERVICES!!
Water has to be paid for. We all knew that Connor didn't mean what he said at the election. If we don't pay for it who will?
Mind you Sinn Fein could have told us this earlier? ??? Peace divedend? What's that?
I think Sky Blue doesn't like the North?? >:(
Quote from: Guillem2 on October 22, 2007, 11:09:44 PM
Can you read O'Neill - "No water charges - your money down the drain!". They fought the last election on no water charges.
He he. You voted for them because you thought you wouldn't be paying for water eventually? Do you understand politics or electioneering at all?
If I were you, I'd invest in a bubble. Then I'd move in. You might find Narnia in there too.
I understand the difference between the truth and a lie.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2281/1692131720_c4d9006a70.jpg?v=1193065743)
Quote from: Guillem2 on October 23, 2007, 12:03:54 AM
I understand the difference between the truth and a lie.
So when you said "I attach a picture of them pulling down their "No Water Charges" Posters from Connolly House in Andersonstown"...
I have no doubt SF, as the DUP, as the SDLP, were against water charges. Unfortunately, it has become clear after the recent independent review that unless we wanted to drink and wash in rat's piss over the next 30 years we need to raise the money somewhere, and we're talking about many many millions here (3bn). You'll be taxed somehow. We've known since March this was happening in 2009. Did you not believe it?
We all knew the £300-odd average was a red-herring to get the DUP/SF into talks. We're doing Ok. You and me pay half the UK average on water and council tax.
They lie just like them all. Sinn Fein said - "No water charges - your water down the drain!" Water charges introduced by Connor Murphy SF Minister for Water Charges.
Sure there's no need for Fianna Fail to come North. Sinn Fein are the new Fianna Fail. Lieing bastards!
Political Party in lying to the electorate shocker :o ::)
To be fair to poor auld Conor, his hands are pretty much tied - whoever finished up with the Regional Development brief was going to have to introduce water charges no matter what and anyone who thought otherwise may move into O'Neill's bubble.
Sinn Fein also said "Brits Out"
Lying bastards.
Paisley once said - 'No surrender to the IRA!'
Lying bastard.
I can appreciate the fact that some form of rating has to be introduced to cover water charges.
My main gripe however is....in my case and plenty of others, I'm a single person living on my own - WHY would I need to pay the same amount as the family of 4 or 5 who live next door to me ? I will use nowhere near half the amount of water an average sized family will use but I still will be paying the same. That's unfair.
If a meter is installed by someone all well and good but I can see myself not paying anything until the whole thing is made fair and the only way to do that is meter everyone.
It works for electricity - if i was told to pay the same every year in electricity charges as what the family next door of 4 or 5 pay then there'd be uproar.
Wee Conor can bring in the water charges and even trot out the standard party line crap. However, it is beyond him (and incredibly adolescent of him not) to actually to say the name of the water company that he is in overall charge of.
The EU Water Framework Directive means that everyone in the EU will (eventually) have to pay for thier mains water - it's a bit disingenuous to be campaigning against water charges.
We have been paying "water rates" for years, its just they have been hidden away in our rates. We will now be paying for it twice.
Quote from: Abble on October 23, 2007, 08:25:36 AM
My main gripe however is....in my case and plenty of others, I'm a single person living on my own - WHY would I need to pay the same amount as the family of 4 or 5 who live next door to me ? I will use nowhere near half the amount of water an average sized family will use but I still will be paying the same. That's unfair.
If a meter is installed by someone all well and good but I can see myself not paying anything until the whole thing is made fair and the only way to do that is meter everyone.
It works for electricity - if i was told to pay the same every year in electricity charges as what the family next door of 4 or 5 pay then there'd be uproar.
Excuse me! I live with my wife and her 3 younger sisters. All 5 of use regularly bath together to save water. And I've also started us all sleeping in the same bed to save on the electric blanket, but thats only when the wife is away.
Come on lads, who honestly thought that water charges would be scrapped - EVERY political party in the wee six campaigned on no water charges, and whoever got the post was going to have to impliment these charges. But why let that stop youse having the usual Sinn Fein bashing!!
I for one would rather pay £100 - £200 pa for a clean and efficient water service, rather then the other options whereby we let the situation get worse (which the brits did for the last 40 years!) have more flooding, fines by EU for our sewage problems and have to drink bottled water!
I totally agree with meters, it would be costly for the supply and installation of meters to every home, but they should be free or else us each households first bill to pay for these. Meters would encourage people to stop wasting water as well.
By the way the photo is of the SF offices on the Antrim Rd, across from the waterworks.
The way I see it water charges are being introduced for home owners i.e. people who have already conceded the point that it is okay to profiteer from the buying and selling of what should be common to us all i.e. the land. So don't come crying when someone else takes this a step further and makes you pay for another common resource.
Quote from: 5iveTimes on October 23, 2007, 10:16:01 AM
Are the people in the North not already paying for their water in their annual rates bill?
Yes, but the money wasn't allocated to the water system. Hence this mess now.
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
The way I see it water charges are being introduced for home owners i.e. people who have already conceded the point that it is okay to profiteer from the buying and selling of what should be common to us all i.e. the land. So don't come crying when someone else takes this a step further and makes you pay for another common resource.
What a load of sh*te. You don't half come out with some boll*x.
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
The way I see it water charges are being introduced for home owners i.e. people who have already conceded the point that it is okay to profiteer from the buying and selling of what should be common to us all i.e. the land. So don't come crying when someone else takes this a step further and makes you pay for another common resource.
Non homeowners also have to pay them Donagh.......
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 23, 2007, 10:21:55 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
The way I see it water charges are being introduced for home owners i.e. people who have already conceded the point that it is okay to profiteer from the buying and selling of what should be common to us all i.e. the land. So don't come crying when someone else takes this a step further and makes you pay for another common resource.
What a load of sh*te. You don't half come out with some boll*x.
Thank you for that informed retort Chris. I see you are working hard to maintain your previous high standards. ::)
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
Non homeowners also have to pay them Donagh.......
Do they? I didn't realise - I thought they were being lumped in with the rates (which are only paid for by homeowners). Well booo!!!!! Off with Murphys head!!!!!
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 23, 2007, 10:20:32 AM
Fianna Fail - middle class Unionism's direct line into the global economy
You do flatter me Chris - you want yo go on a date? :-*
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:26:33 AM
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
Non homeowners also have to pay them Donagh.......
Do they? I didn't realise - I thought they were being lumped in with the rates (which are only paid for by homeowners). Well booo!!!!! Off with Murphys head!!!!!
Rates are not only paid for by homeowners, my sister rents a house and her rates are included in her rent.
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:27:58 AM
Quote from: Chrisowc on October 23, 2007, 10:20:32 AM
Fianna Fail - middle class Unionism's direct line into the global economy
You do flatter me Chris - you want yo go on a date? :-*
Call it an under-hand left wing* tribute.
* I know you'll be touched by the left wing bit ;)
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:29:27 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:26:33 AM
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
Non homeowners also have to pay them Donagh.......
Do they? I didn't realise - I thought they were being lumped in with the rates (which are only paid for by homeowners). Well booo!!!!! Off with Murphys head!!!!!
Rates are not only paid for by homeowners, my sister rents a house and her rates are included in her rent.
Ahh... sounds like the landlord trying to make out he's doing her a favour. Rates are paid by the owner of the house only - there's no obligation on a tennant to pay them.
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:41:05 AM
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:29:27 AM
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:26:33 AM
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
Non homeowners also have to pay them Donagh.......
Do they? I didn't realise - I thought they were being lumped in with the rates (which are only paid for by homeowners). Well booo!!!!! Off with Murphys head!!!!!
Rates are not only paid for by homeowners, my sister rents a house and her rates are included in her rent.
Ahh... sounds like the landlord trying to make out he's doing her a favour. Rates are paid by the owner of the house only - there's no obligation on a tennant to pay them.
Talkin sh*te im afraid, she rents it from the housing executive.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 09:59:03 AM
Come on lads, who honestly thought that water charges would be scrapped - EVERY political party in the wee six campaigned on no water charges, and whoever got the post was going to have to impliment these charges. But why let that stop youse having the usual Sinn Fein bashing!!
You call it Sinn Fein bashing. I call it the cut and thrust of everyday politics. Maybe the Shinners thought they were going to be able to use the "playing politics with the peace process" line ad infinitum. As the general election in the Republic showed, this is not the case.
Quote from: Donagh on October 23, 2007, 10:18:48 AM
The way I see it water charges are being introduced for home owners i.e. people who have already conceded the point that it is okay to profiteer from the buying and selling of what should be common to us all i.e. the land. So don't come crying when someone else takes this a step further and makes you pay for another common resource.
Newsflash: communism doesn't work.
Deiseach, did you bother to read my post or just that one line! ::)
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 11:09:47 AM
Deiseach, did you bother to read my post or just that one line! ::)
Yes, I read the post, and your defence of water charges is not the point. The Shinners said they would not introduce water charges, and they have. It may make perfect sense, but you can't seriously expect SF's political opponents to pass up on an opportunity to have a pop at them, can you?
Quote from: deiseach on October 23, 2007, 10:48:46 AM
Newsflash: communism doesn't work.
Your entitled to your opinion on that deiseach, but I didn't mention communism. Just the way I see things morally.
Quote from: Balboa on October 23, 2007, 10:46:06 AM
Talkin sh*te im afraid, she rents it from the housing executive.
As I said, she doesn't get a rates bill from the Council. If the HE want to fool her into thinking she's getting something for nothing that between her and them.
Nobody gets a rates bill from the Council
Its not a bill as such, it is included in the breakdown of her rent. So i would imagine it is the yearly rates bill divided by 12.
Quote from: A Quinn Martin Production on October 23, 2007, 01:01:30 PM
Nobody gets a rates bill from the Council
Well if you want to be pedantic about it, okay the Council sets the rate and it's collected by some underworked civil service employee in between his holidays and sick days.
Lads to suggest this isnt Sinn Fein bashing is silly, look at the thread title ffs!
Did they bring it in on their own?
Councils set the district rate only. Rates are collected by the Rate Collection Agency which is part of the Dept of Finance & Personnel headed up by Robbo, so Peter Punt gets all the rate money and then he divvies it up. Housing Executive tenants do pay rates otherwise they wouldn't be eligible for rate relief.
Quote from: deiseach on October 23, 2007, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 11:09:47 AM
Deiseach, did you bother to read my post or just that one line! ::)
Yes, I read the post, and your defence of water charges is not the point. The Shinners said they would not introduce water charges, and they have. It may make perfect sense, but you can't seriously expect SF's political opponents to pass up on an opportunity to have a pop at them, can you?
I wasn't defending the water charges, but stating that IMO their inevitable arrival, your response was the usual Shinner bashing prevalent on this board. BTW you are entitled to "have a pop" but as I was also trying to say, it could have been any of the parties in the executive making this decision - it is inevitable that the charges will come in.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 01:30:02 PM
I wasn't defending the water charges, but stating that IMO their inevitable arrival, your response was the usual Shinner bashing prevalent on this board. BTW you are entitled to "have a pop" but as I was also trying to say, it could have been any of the parties in the executive making this decision - it is inevitable that the charges will come in.
*sigh* If it was inevitable, why did Sinn Fein campaign on the promise of preventing it? Might as well campaign on holding back the tide. I make no apologies for the 'usual Shinner bashing'. It's this brittleness in the face of proper parish pump politics that contributed to SF's dire performance in recent general election. Long may it continue
FFS deiseach if your tired go to bed - ;)
The reason SF campaigned against it was the same as the rest of the parties - popular support, it would have been political suicise for any of the parties to have been pro water charges before the election (thought that was pretty obvious!).
As for your continued reference to SF's performance in the recent general election, as you well know it came down to a dogfight between the "big two" FF & FG, the Shinners made alot of schoolboy mistakes, publically over estimating possible gains, not thought out (and in some cases, lack of) economic policies, poor media performances, putting MaryLou in Dublin Central etc, etc, etc.. (yes it's quite a long list ;)). But lessons will be learnt by the SF backroom team and the next campaign will be a better fought and thought out one.
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 02:00:20 PM
The reason SF campaigned against it was the same as the rest of the parties - popular support, it would have been political suicise for any of the parties to have been pro water charges before the election (thought that was pretty obvious!).
Are you telling me SF are JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER POLITICAL PARTY? Whatever happened to breaking the mould, an end to the tired old politics of division blah blah blah
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 02:00:20 PM
As for your continued reference to SF's performance in the recent general election, as you well know it came down to a dogfight between the "big two" FF & FG, the Shinners made alot of schoolboy mistakes, publically over estimating possible gains, not thought out (and in some cases, lack of) economic policies, poor media performances, putting MaryLou in Dublin Central etc, etc, etc.. (yes it's quite a long list ;)). But lessons will be learnt by the SF backroom team and the next campaign will be a better fought and thought out one.
So apart from attempting to foist a first-past-the-post rationale on a PR-STV system - people could vote for SF and transfer to one of the big two, they just chose not to vote for SF; the idea that you had to vote tactically like you might have to do to get rid of Willie Thompson is complete bunkum - you agree with me that SF's performance was dire.
What a senseless,thoughtless, irrational debate. Have you guys not yet realised that our so called politicians are not decision makers, they are merely administrators. The real decision makers reside far from these shores, in the IMF.,Corporate boardrooms, and the european commission. Our guys North and South could not lick a postage stamp without permission. The same is true of all western democracies,outside of the U.S.A. where real power lies. Using the home front as a illustration, would anyone seriously try to explain the difference in social and economic policy between FF and FG or the difference between SF.and the Dup, Tories or Labour. Minor readjustments of the distribution of G.N.P which do not alter the status quo. is all they can and do aspire to. Someone once said that if democracy changed anything, they would abolish it, never was a truer word spoken. Pay no more heed to these minnows and there pretend consultations and discussions, swallow your medicine and like it, its the price you have to pay to live in a materialist,consumer society.
Maybe the Sinn Fein poster should just be changed to say "Smaller Water Charges! Less of your money down the drain!"
Quote from: Gaoth Dobhair Abu on October 23, 2007, 01:30:02 PM
the usual Shinner bashing prevalent on this board.
Now that is funny. Sometimes this board looks like the online branch of SF. As witness the snapping to attention of the usual suspects when somebody meekly pointed out a piece of shinner hypocrisy. These are the same posters who rant and rail at the perceived corruption of all other political parties in these islands, yet when SF is pointed out as being just the same (with the extra leavening of hypocrisy provided by the contrast with their "breaking the mould" shite) the faithful are out in force to point out "sure it's usual to lie to get elected" and whinging about SF bashing.
In the old days it was depressing and despair-inducing. Now that the spawgs are under the table and the noses in the trough, it's just funny.
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 23, 2007, 09:09:20 AM
The EU Water Framework Directive means that everyone in the EU will (eventually) have to pay for thier mains water - it's a bit disingenuous to be campaigning against water charges.
yeah, I've heard talks have started down here about water charges too....
it was only a matter of time..
we have serious problems down south with the eventual water shortages plus the natioal grid not being able to supply enough electricity , this christmas meant to be the worst ever in terms of demand and (no) supply (in some areas)