I think football has benefitted from a lot of the recent rule changes. The games are more free flowing, high scoring and watchable.
What changes would be useful in hurling?
- The hooter would be good.
- Maybe keep 4 up in the opposition half too?
- Get rid of short puck outs.
Tap and go frees and 2 pointers aren't needed in hurling though.
The main thing for me would be something that could bring about consistency with hand passing. Either scrap it completely and allow throws or really clamp down on it. There's a school of thought that some people don't like people whinging about it as why not encourage quick, attacking movement but then it's ruled on an inconsistent basis.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on June 30, 2025, 11:29:28 AMI think football has benefitted from a lot of the recent rule changes. The games are more free flowing, high scoring and watchable.
What changes would be useful in hurling?
- The hooter would be good.
- Maybe keep 4 up in the opposition half too?
- Get rid of short puck outs.
Tap and go frees and 2 pointers aren't needed in hurling though.
what would the hooter add to hurling? we dont need it, id argue its brutal in football aswell. why would we need the 4 up rule? hurling doesnt have a problem with teams dropping players back given that players can score from their own half so it would be pretty stupid thing for a coach to do. short puc outs are perfectly fine given that we have plenty of long ones as well.
Hurling is perfectly fine as it is, id be more inclined to tidy the rules around tackling and hand passing than anything else
The Handpass does need a good looking at.. Playing a handpass off the stick would be the only one that is really legal, the obvious throws are when a player is running off the shoulder, but unless I've seen it as a throw I won't call it all the time, the ones you call are if he's on the ground surrounded and the ball is thrown out, as he will struggle to get that connection needed.
Obviously the moving the ball forward for dissent is brilliant ;D
But to be fair in hurling, mouthing isn't really a thing in my experience, players will question and won't like that they feel in was a foul or it wasn't a foul, but I'll take a bit of that in comparison to how footballers get on.
Not sure there is much more to change hurling to improve it. The short puck outs bring some jeopardy, I don't see them as beneficial and very rare would you see the defensive madness of how football was being done, its generally man to man or a sweeper role of one person
Spare arm tackling, steps and throwing the ball all need addressing.
I'd propose that all three issues are linked in some way.
The old ability to dispossess a player with the ball isn't coached anymore as it is negated by overcarrying so defending with the spare arm is deployed. The spare arm tackling leads to more bunching and rucks where throwing is most prevalent but not exclusively.
I'd relax the shoulder charge rule slightly, and also allow a lad to pull on the ball in the ruck.
That'd speed the game up even further :D
Quote from: johnnycool on June 30, 2025, 02:31:00 PMSpare arm tackling, steps and throwing the ball all need addressing.
I'd propose that all three issues are linked in some way.
The old ability to dispossess a player with the ball isn't coached anymore as it is negated by overcarrying so defending with the spare arm is deployed. The spare arm tackling leads to more bunching and rucks where throwing is most prevalent but not exclusively.
I'd relax the shoulder charge rule slightly, and also allow a lad to pull on the ball in the ruck.
That'd speed the game up even further :D
Pulling on the ball is, and always was allowed, ya just gotta make contact ;)
The problem is players are conditioned to win possession and 9 times out 10 the pulling of the ball goes to the opposition
I've been pulling the spare are now more often. It's probably there to mainly slow a player down but the cry I'm only trying to stand him up, I would come back with, you're playing the man not the ball.
As for the steps, I'm generous, I feel they should look at it for time rather than steps... lets start with 5 seconds for instance and count it out you'll get more distance for your steps than I would so it's very heightish ;D
5 seconds?
You could run 20 metres in that time and you wouldn't need to be Usain Bolt.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 30, 2025, 02:45:36 PM5 seconds?
You could run 20 metres in that time and you wouldn't need to be Usain Bolt.
You couldn't, but I get your point.. Its 4 steps or the time it takes to take four steps..
Its got to come down to application of the rules and a revisit by the administration to get them to stick with it. The players will adopt quickly enough as they did with the football rules..
I'm still old school with breaking the tackle and allowing the extra step ;)
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on June 30, 2025, 01:12:43 PMQuote from: Ash Smoker on June 30, 2025, 11:29:28 AMI think football has benefitted from a lot of the recent rule changes. The games are more free flowing, high scoring and watchable.
What changes would be useful in hurling?
- The hooter would be good.
- Maybe keep 4 up in the opposition half too?
- Get rid of short puck outs.
Tap and go frees and 2 pointers aren't needed in hurling though.
what would the hooter add to hurling? we dont need it, id argue its brutal in football aswell.
With the hooter, at least teams would know exactly what's left. No more playing for the draw by the ref.
I like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
Quote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 02:43:15 AMI like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
Indirect frees have been in place for many many years.. You must not watch too many games
As for frees, there are sharp shooters in football that never miss 21 yard frees, I'd say the 65 now in hurling would be the same as a 21 yard free for football in terms of difficulty, not sure why you'd have a lesser player taking free's though, its specialised to the point that I'd take a dead eye free taker on the pitch who wouldn't really contribute to the game but managed to knock over every free or 65'
Taking time keeping away from the ref would have seen Cork win the 2013 All Ireland. Brian Gavin kept playing until Clare equalised. :o
Quote from: Lamps on July 01, 2025, 09:20:23 AMTaking time keeping away from the ref would have seen Cork win the 2013 All Ireland. Brian Gavin kept playing until Clare equalised. :o
And if the wee dog hadn't of shít, it would have burst...
Quote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 02:43:15 AMI like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
I can't see the folks at Croke Park going along with your lets make a game with less scoring cause that's what the people want idea.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2025, 08:48:06 AMQuote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 02:43:15 AMI like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
Indirect frees have been in place for many many years.. You must not watch too many games
As for frees, there are sharp shooters in football that never miss 21 yard frees, I'd say the 65 now in hurling would be the same as a 21 yard free for football in terms of difficulty, not sure why you'd have a lesser player taking free's though, its specialised to the point that I'd take a dead eye free taker on the pitch who wouldn't really contribute to the game but managed to knock over every free or 65'
Actually I've seen every game this year and any game I could see going back to 2012. At no time have I heard a commentator state a free taker could NOT shoot for a point. Perhaps you did not understand what I meant by Indirect Free.
I already wrote why I would want a lesser player taking frees. It was more a historical question: why is hurling different from basketball.
Quote from: Lamps on July 01, 2025, 09:20:23 AMTaking time keeping away from the ref would have seen Cork win the 2013 All Ireland. Brian Gavin kept playing until Clare equalised. :o
I remember it well. Quite a point too! I also remember Cork getting just enough time to tie the game in the Munster Final this year. The hooter would eliminate such controversies. That's the best reason for it.
Quote from: SaffronSports on July 01, 2025, 10:08:04 AMQuote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 02:43:15 AMI like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
I can't see the folks at Croke Park going along with your lets make a game with less scoring cause that's what the people want idea.
I agree because it's not just GAA. Every sport has this idea that record scoring is a great way to sell the game. Thus we're seeing it in just about every sport.
Just to clarify, it may or may not be what the people want(sports fans have diversified tastes) however it is what AUTHORITY wants. Just ask the FRC.
Quote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 12:01:59 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2025, 08:48:06 AMQuote from: EoinW on July 01, 2025, 02:43:15 AMI like the hooter as teams will know exactly when the game ends. It takes pressure off the referee.
Has hurling ever had indirect frees? There's quite a few judgement calls when teams are fighting for possession. I hate it when those borderline calls lead to an easy point. Is it unreasonable to suggest making possession calls indirect frees?
Also wondering: has hurling always had one designated free taker on each team? In basketball, the player fouled takes the free.
Not complaining as hurling is in great shape. I do find that scores come too easily at times. Might be more interesting to make 30+ games a rarity, rather than the norm.
Indirect frees have been in place for many many years.. You must not watch too many games
As for frees, there are sharp shooters in football that never miss 21 yard frees, I'd say the 65 now in hurling would be the same as a 21 yard free for football in terms of difficulty, not sure why you'd have a lesser player taking free's though, its specialised to the point that I'd take a dead eye free taker on the pitch who wouldn't really contribute to the game but managed to knock over every free or 65'
Actually I've seen every game this year and any game I could see going back to 2012. At no time have I heard a commentator state a free taker could NOT shoot for a point. Perhaps you did not understand what I meant by Indirect Free.
I already wrote why I would want a lesser player taking frees. It was more a historical question: why is hurling different from basketball.
You said 'Has hurling ever had indirect frees?' yes they have for many years
Fighting for possession? is this when the 'scrum' is happening or when?
Indirect frees come about from a player being injured and the ref blows his whistle to have the injured player attended to, and the in possession can have a non scoreable free
The natural free taker isn't going back to the full back line to take a free, so other players do take free's. Some teams have the big hitting free takers, Limerick have that, and it works well enough for them, so a long distance free taker and the Gillane up front for the short ones, Cork many years ago had the same set up..
Would like an example possibly?
Most would agree theres not a lot wrong with hurling. But...the handpass has to be addressed soon. Its allowing a short passing game (throws) and the secondary effects of that are spare hand fouls, pulling and draging, rucks etc. The game needs to be cleaned up due to all the above and starting with banning the handpasses from the same hand as holding the ball is definately worth a try? At least a proper trial? Tackle should be hooking and blocking not using your hands to stop a player off loading a throw type handpass.
Something to discourage the rutting that takes place at the start of a half or whenever a sub comes in and "a marker has to be laid down". Or maybe just enforce the rules as the young lad from Tipp found out to his cost.
And definitely something must be done with the handpass. It's the one thing you hear most complained about at a match and is very difficult for the referee to police consistently.
Quote from: didlyi on July 01, 2025, 09:54:16 PMMost would agree theres not a lot wrong with hurling. But...the handpass has to be addressed soon. Its allowing a short passing game (throws) and the secondary effects of that are spare hand fouls, pulling and draging, rucks etc. The game needs to be cleaned up due to all the above and starting with banning the handpasses from the same hand as holding the ball is definately worth a try? At least a proper trial? Tackle should be hooking and blocking not using your hands to stop a player off loading a throw type handpass.
The handpass rule is that the ball must be released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand. If referees enforced this existing rule, there is no need for a new one.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 16, 2025, 04:20:34 PMQuote from: didlyi on July 01, 2025, 09:54:16 PMMost would agree theres not a lot wrong with hurling. But...the handpass has to be addressed soon. Its allowing a short passing game (throws) and the secondary effects of that are spare hand fouls, pulling and draging, rucks etc. The game needs to be cleaned up due to all the above and starting with banning the handpasses from the same hand as holding the ball is definately worth a try? At least a proper trial? Tackle should be hooking and blocking not using your hands to stop a player off loading a throw type handpass.
The handpass rule is that the ball must be released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand. If referees enforced this existing rule, there is no need for a new one.
The problem with the existing rule is that its not clear cut. Its what the ref sees as clear seperation and we know now that there are several pundits ready to slate a ref if he makes a tight call which is then highlighted in slo motion as incorrect. Some say the ref should lean twoards only calling it if hes 100% sure which has got us where we are now. If he leans tworads blowing all suspected passes then we have controverlsy galore. For me the throw type handpass (not all handpasses) should be banned. For me this type of hand pass, whether theres seperation or not, is nothing more than a glorified throw. There are several other more skilfull, more attractive and more legal ways of handpassing a ball.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 16, 2025, 04:20:34 PMQuote from: didlyi on July 01, 2025, 09:54:16 PMMost would agree theres not a lot wrong with hurling. But...the handpass has to be addressed soon. Its allowing a short passing game (throws) and the secondary effects of that are spare hand fouls, pulling and draging, rucks etc. The game needs to be cleaned up due to all the above and starting with banning the handpasses from the same hand as holding the ball is definately worth a try? At least a proper trial? Tackle should be hooking and blocking not using your hands to stop a player off loading a throw type handpass.
The handpass rule is that the ball must be released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand. If referees enforced this existing rule, there is no need for a new one.
Preach it brother
Refs enforcing rules in hurling = classic oxy moron
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2025, 09:21:29 PMRefs enforcing rules in hurling = classic oxy moron
Where's the fun in that? Be no chit chat afterwards.
Be a lot of angry men unable to vent their frustrations lol
Quote from: Ash Smoker on August 16, 2025, 04:20:34 PMQuote from: didlyi on July 01, 2025, 09:54:16 PMMost would agree theres not a lot wrong with hurling. But...the handpass has to be addressed soon. Its allowing a short passing game (throws) and the secondary effects of that are spare hand fouls, pulling and draging, rucks etc. The game needs to be cleaned up due to all the above and starting with banning the handpasses from the same hand as holding the ball is definately worth a try? At least a proper trial? Tackle should be hooking and blocking not using your hands to stop a player off loading a throw type handpass.
The handpass rule is that the ball must be released and struck with a definite striking action of the hand. If referees enforced this existing rule, there is no need for a new one.
I agree with this- if it was policed properly on the basis of there needing to be clear separation between hand and ball and a striking action then I expect we would find it reverts to a point where the hand passes are actually clear!
A slightly radical addition might be something like not being allowed more than x (say 2) hand passes in succession unless the ball hits the ground or an opponent touches it. A bit like not being allowed 3 times in the hand.