How long before the uneven and unfair schedule gets discussed.
Of the teams that played yesterday, who end up in a preliminary Quarter final and win and then proceed to the Quarter finals, those teams will be forced to play (counting yesterday)five games in six weeks.
The speed of the game under the new rules, which IMO have greatly enhanced the game, take a significant toll on players unlike anything we have witnessed before. Gaelic football has become a speed game.
Given the above scenario, Why the GAA could not allow a two week break between the prelim Q final and the Q final is nuts.
It has effectively IMO significantly reduced the chances of any team not winning their group of not advancing, all because the All-Ireland final needs to be finished by July.
Jim McGuinness will be all over it when excuses needed
Clubs can play week on week why can't 40 man grant funded county panels?
What's the point in players 18-40 if you aren't prepared to consider throwing them in?
Exactly. Taper the training week on week and from match to match.
Mc Guinness needs someone/something to blame on.
Quote from: joemamas on May 25, 2025, 10:02:37 PMHow long before the uneven and unfair schedule gets discussed.
Of the teams that played yesterday, who end up in a preliminary Quarter final and win and then proceed to the Quarter finals, those teams will be forced to play (counting yesterday)five games in six weeks.
The speed of the game under the new rules, which IMO have greatly enhanced the game, take a significant toll on players unlike anything we have witnessed before. Gaelic football has become a speed game.
Given the above scenario, Why the GAA could not allow a two week break between the prelim Q final and the Q final is nuts.
It has effectively IMO significantly reduced the chances of any team not winning their group of not advancing, all because the All-Ireland final needs to be finished by July.
HQ could or should have adjusted that schedule after year one of the group stage but chose to ignore it. Topping the group and avoiding a play off game is enough of reward already. As you said with the new rules with a faster more energy sapping game it could well become a bigger issue than before leaving us with games in the business end that should be competitive but probably won't be with such advantages.
Quote from: joemamas on May 25, 2025, 10:02:37 PMHow long before the uneven and unfair schedule gets discussed.
Of the teams that played yesterday, who end up in a preliminary Quarter final and win and then proceed to the Quarter finals, those teams will be forced to play (counting yesterday)five games in six weeks.
The speed of the game under the new rules, which IMO have greatly enhanced the game, take a significant toll on players unlike anything we have witnessed before. Gaelic football has become a speed game.
Given the above scenario, Why the GAA could not allow a two week break between the prelim Q final and the Q final is nuts.
It has effectively IMO significantly reduced the chances of any team not winning their group of not advancing, all because the All-Ireland final needs to be finished by July.
Just to play devil's advocate:
Those who win their group should have an advantage.
Nearly every other national sport (albeit professional) plays every week, sometimes twice a week.
Clubs play every week.
Quote from: ONeill on May 25, 2025, 11:16:54 PMQuote from: joemamas on May 25, 2025, 10:02:37 PMHow long before the uneven and unfair schedule gets discussed.
Of the teams that played yesterday, who end up in a preliminary Quarter final and win and then proceed to the Quarter finals, those teams will be forced to play (counting yesterday)five games in six weeks.
The speed of the game under the new rules, which IMO have greatly enhanced the game, take a significant toll on players unlike anything we have witnessed before. Gaelic football has become a speed game.
Given the above scenario, Why the GAA could not allow a two week break between the prelim Q final and the Q final is nuts.
It has effectively IMO significantly reduced the chances of any team not winning their group of not advancing, all because the All-Ireland final needs to be finished by July.
Just to play devil's advocate:
Those who win their group should have an advantage.
Nearly every other national sport (albeit professional) plays every week, sometimes twice a week.
Clubs play every week.
Agree on first point, would a three week break suffice, not sure.
as Marty 34 agreed, this is a whole different game re energy levels.
Most games I have watched this year has seen numerous players just shagged out from the increased speed that is now involved. Just seems a tad punitive, that if you dont finish first in the group stages, your goose is pretty much cooked.
Jeopardy is finishing 2nd or 3rd.
Anyway there's a new system hext year.
We had I dunno what maybe 15 years of the back door system in AI Gaelic Football.
And before the Dublin behemoth came along, year on year the narrative would change. Some years everyone would tell you that the teams that arrived through the front door were fresher and had an advantage. Some years everyone would you that the teams that arrived through the back door, they were battle hardened and had an advantage.
My conclusion, then as now, is that "everyone" is full of shit; "everyone" just doesn't want to accept that the reason their team didn't win was because on any given day in knockout football, anything should be able to happen.
Basic summary of what I'm trying to say is, rules don't beat you. Competition formats don't beat you. Sometimes you're just not quite good enough. Don't blame the format. Regroup. Go again.
Supporters are fickle, managers are full of shit, these are universal constants
The cribbing and crying about having to play games is beyond a joke, it's a simple case of get on with it, heaven forbid you might even enjoy it and get a win or 2 along the way
Quote from: Rossfan on May 25, 2025, 11:48:13 PMJeopardy is finishing 2nd or 3rd.
Anyway there's a new system hext year.
That's it in a nutshell, win your games and get the rewards.
Unfortunately we're taking a backward step next year, hopefully not for too long though.
The biggest problem with the current system is the seeding that losing provincial finalists get. Seed the winners and all other seeds should be on the basis of league rankings and we've got a pretty equitable system.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 26, 2025, 12:07:29 AMWe had I dunno what maybe 15 years of the back door system in AI Gaelic Football.
And before the Dublin behemoth came along, year on year the narrative would change. Some years everyone would tell you that the teams that arrived through the front door were fresher and had an advantage. Some years everyone would you that the teams that arrived through the back door, they were battle hardened and had an advantage.
My conclusion, then as now, is that "everyone" is full of shit; "everyone" just doesn't want to accept that the reason their team didn't win was because on any given day in knockout football, anything should be able to happen.
Basic summary of what I'm trying to say is, rules don't beat you. Competition formats don't beat you. Sometimes you're just not quite good enough. Don't blame the format. Regroup. Go again.
👏👏👏
One thing that could be changed is the number of subs allowed, especially now that the clock is stopped for subs is to increase it to 6, 7 or even 8 subs allowed.
Would probably need to be some rule about doing them in batches and giving advantage to doing them at half-time to limit the number of stoppages but if you had 8 subs with a rule that each team was only allowed stop the clock 4 times in a game for subs [any subs made at half-time wouldn't count towards the 4 stoppages], it would make very little difference to the game but would allow managers make a fair bit more use of their squads.
Looking at match reports it's fairly rare to see an intercounty side not use their full allocation of subs in a championship game.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 26, 2025, 11:10:23 AMOne thing that could be changed is the number of subs allowed, especially now that the clock is stopped for subs is to increase it to 6, 7 or even 8 subs allowed.
Would probably need to be some rule about doing them in batches and giving advantage to doing them at half-time to limit the number of stoppages but if you had 8 subs with a rule that each team was only allowed stop the clock 4 times in a game for subs [any subs made at half-time wouldn't count towards the 4 stoppages], it would make very little difference to the game but would allow managers make a fair bit more use of their squads.
Looking at match reports it's fairly rare to see an intercounty side not use their full allocation of subs in a championship game.
A number of managers called for that change and has fallen on deaf ears.
Even with all using pretty much all of their full allocation of subs it's clear watching games that teams even the ones that are considered ultra fit and conditioned are running on empty in the final quarter of games.
While 6 unused lads sit on a bench....
I'd suggest 7.
Otherwise what about interchange??
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 26, 2025, 12:40:37 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on May 26, 2025, 11:10:23 AMOne thing that could be changed is the number of subs allowed, especially now that the clock is stopped for subs is to increase it to 6, 7 or even 8 subs allowed.
Would probably need to be some rule about doing them in batches and giving advantage to doing them at half-time to limit the number of stoppages but if you had 8 subs with a rule that each team was only allowed stop the clock 4 times in a game for subs [any subs made at half-time wouldn't count towards the 4 stoppages], it would make very little difference to the game but would allow managers make a fair bit more use of their squads.
Looking at match reports it's fairly rare to see an intercounty side not use their full allocation of subs in a championship game.
A number of managers called for that change and has fallen on deaf ears.
Even with all using pretty much all of their full allocation of subs it's clear watching games that teams even the ones that are considered ultra fit and conditioned are running on empty in the final quarter of games.
This sums up in in line the point I initially tried to make.
This is unlike any other championship we have witnessed,
Ok free pass to the powers that be in year one, but they should acknowledge the new game, and give teams reasonable time between the latter stages of the championship.
Not too digress, but new rules have really enhanced the game. Why the rush to end it.
Quote from: twohands!!! on May 26, 2025, 11:10:23 AMOne thing that could be changed is the number of subs allowed, especially now that the clock is stopped for subs is to increase it to 6, 7 or even 8 subs allowed.
Just suits the bigger better Counties with deeper panels, rugby moved to greater subs and it's made a balls of their game.
Players being tired means space opens up and things happen. If mgrs don't want players so knackered maybe tell them to kick the ball instead of running about the pitch like a 6 yr old at lunchtime.
Quote from: BigGreenField on May 27, 2025, 01:16:35 PMQuote from: twohands!!! on May 26, 2025, 11:10:23 AMOne thing that could be changed is the number of subs allowed, especially now that the clock is stopped for subs is to increase it to 6, 7 or even 8 subs allowed.
Just suits the bigger better Counties with deeper panels, rugby moved to greater subs and it's made a balls of their game.
Players being tired means space opens up and things happen. If mgrs don't want players so knackered maybe tell them to kick the ball instead of running about the pitch like a 6 yr old at lunchtime.
Agreed 100%.
So no subs and Laythrum win Sam.... ::)
Quote from: Rossfan on May 27, 2025, 03:54:18 PMSo no subs and Laythrum win Sam.... ::)
An interesting question, who'd win it with no subs permitted.
One of the same 6 as would no matter how many subs.
Digressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Quote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Yeah let's go back to having a month between provincial finals and the All Ireland semis, and the same again between the semis and the AI final.
That'll help with whatever it is you think we need help with.
Yeah that's what we need.
Super idea.
Quote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Some of us follow club football...
Quote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
There's more football than ever for all teams. What precisely are you asking for? The current schedule to be spread out longer? Or for the championships to be made even more convoluted and have everyone play even more games?
I follow club fball, plenty games on at the moment but not as good as watching county fball.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2025, 08:37:54 AMI follow club fball, plenty games on at the moment but not as good as watching county fball.
Club championship in Tyrone is as good for rivalry and excitement as county championship. It will start after the county championship so the schedule works OK. Previously club championship was totally squeezed into couple of weeks.
TS - I agree with you on club football but when it comes to watching club games people will be saying league games dont matter and group matches in the championship are a sham. So anything other than a straight knock out championship match seems to be regarded as a waste of time. Meaning 50% of club teams would play one meaningful match in a year. It is another product that the GAA (or perhaps supporters) don't fully promote.
As good as the county football season has been the rules and structures could be tweaked to make it even better.
There is definitely a cohort of people in 'big counties' as in counties that do well that wouldn't be at their club ground all year unless they are going well in the club championship, I know there are various reasons for this, some may not live near their club and so on..
Personally I find that the club should be the heart of your passion, as it was the beginning of your journey so the roots and attention should be there, the county has its place no doubt and the big days are great, though long in the memory for us Antrim folk but I'm old enough to remember the good days of heading to Croke Park, but in the main, give me a good club championship game when its all on the line, the passion is through the roof!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 02, 2025, 08:37:54 AMI follow club fball, plenty games on at the moment but not as good as watching county fball.
Inter-county championship and club league should be incomparable
Inter-county championship and club league should be incomparable
Circle round in 6 months when the club championship finished and report back if you'd favour club championships or national league fayre
Quote from: marty34 on May 25, 2025, 11:03:43 PMExactly. Taper the training week on week and from match to match.
Mc Guinness needs someone/something to blame on.
Exactly. Play week on week and cut down the endless training.
The likes of McGuinness always has his ready made excuse for injuries, schedules to blame nothing to do with his over training of players of course.
The talk of what we might prefer in terms of a product is not something I'm swayed by. We would all love to see the best teams playing classic games at inter-county but we will follow our own clubs and counties no matter how crap or the level they play at.
The GAA should not be making decisions based on fans and armchair supporters. As it stands the players all love games week in week out. The managers can manage their workload and are more than happy to flog them for months on end and would stick in a few challenge matches if they could.
If we went back and just dragged the season out more there would be more dead rubbers. Going way back to straight knock-out times I don't remeber anyone saying that it was awful a team had no games fo X months after all they put in.
There are plenty of games now but I do like the idea of an odd gap as we get to the business end of it. Like who are we tweaking this for? Thousands of kids go to the nuerseries around the country to actually play the games. Then they might go home an watch Liverpool...what harm there? Isn't the main thing that they are playing the games?!
I'll never buy the exposure arguement when most county managers don't let their lads near a mic or do any promo content.
Two weeks in a row at the start of the league Donegal had injuries, week 1 Jim blamed the new rules, week 2 he blamed the drive to Kerry, neither week did he (who is in control of workload and warm up) consider the content he's putting on as being root cause
2 weeks ago Caolan McGonagle went off injured v Tyrone, at the weekend he wasn't named in the panel for the game v Cavan, then he starts the match, in the role of god-like guru these are the kind of inner workings of the mind that give an edge it seems
Quote from: tiempo on June 02, 2025, 10:20:55 AMTwo weeks in a row at the start of the league Donegal had injuries, week 1 Jim blamed the new rules, week 2 he blamed the drive to Kerry, neither week did he (who is in control of workload and warm up) consider the content he's putting on as being root cause
2 weeks ago Caolan McGonagle went off injured v Tyrone, at the weekend he wasn't named in the panel for the game v Cavan, then he starts the match, in the role of god-like guru these are the kind of inner workings of the mind that give an edge it seems
This is something I NEVER understand. Why don't any GAA journalists or pundits mention the facs of 100s of training sessions and no real recovery?!
As I said if they have a gap week they are driving around the country looking for behind closed doors games.
The GPA never seem to mind these demands as they frame it as 'the GAA' - Jarlath has them running on the beaches at 7am seemingly...
GPA are interested in billables, faux outrage and pushing a narrative on populist issues
I think a big hand in Dublins glory years was the fact their players will have done comparatively less travelling for training and games through the season, slept in their own beds the night before big games at Croke and so on
Up the country you have to cut your cloth accordingly, lads are due time off to unplug and decompress from the rigors of competition, even during a competition, at the end of the day people-athletes are driven in large part by hormones, burning the candle at both ends is going to come back to bite you in the ass, you can't be 100% wired in/in the zone ready for battle 5-6-7 days a week
Really and truly between the Tyrone and Cavan games if Jim had said right lads take the week off, bar rehab we'll convene on Sunday for the game there's every chance they still win the game, this hundreds of sessions malarkey and alpha guru thing is overblown at times
Quote from: thewobbler on June 02, 2025, 06:49:32 AMQuote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Yeah let's go back to having a month between provincial finals and the All Ireland semis, and the same again between the semis and the AI final.
That'll help with whatever it is you think we need help with.
Yeah that's what we need.
Super idea.
yep, that was exactly my point, have a month between all games, ::)
I should have spelt it out, that extending the intercounty season by ONE or TWO weeks, would not hurt.
I feel the whole thing is too condensed.
That was my point.
Quote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 02:26:59 PMQuote from: thewobbler on June 02, 2025, 06:49:32 AMQuote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Yeah let's go back to having a month between provincial finals and the All Ireland semis, and the same again between the semis and the AI final.
That'll help with whatever it is you think we need help with.
Yeah that's what we need.
Super idea.
yep, that was exactly my point, have a month between all games, ::)
I should have spelt it out, that extending the intercounty season by ONE or TWO weeks, would not hurt.
I feel the whole thing is too condensed.
That was my point.
So, in essence, the complaining is about making it all a week or two longer? That's it?
Pre groups/back doors, super 8's and all the other stuff we had was you at most would play 5 games if in Ulster and it started in mid June and over in September, most counties got one game and it wasn't broken in my mind at the time, now we have multiple games which extend the year in terms of games the jeopardy is gone as the stronger teams have an opportunity to get back in, the reality is, when you strip it all back is money, revenue from all the games and TV rights
I personally think there are too many games, an over saturation of the games isn't necessary a good thing but, I've enjoyed most of the games this year, maybe the new rules have jazzed it up
I know there is an argument/narrative starting to develop that canning this group phase format is a terrible idea as it's great and there's some good games etc etc..but do people not think that Round of 16 knockout leading to Quarter finals will 1)Give Teams a bit more recovery time in between games and 2)Allow a better build up to big games, more promotion of them etc?
This has been said before I'm sure but 24 games for 16 teams to get rid of only 4 is an unnecessarily drawn out process. I think this current structure with top 2 going straight to Quarters would be better probably and if that leads to dead rubbers then so be it.
But the Round 2A/2B system for next year is worth trying. Ironically, Cork of all county's used to have this format for club championships a few years back and I thought it worked well. Teams next season have their provincial games, then have a back door game if they lose Rd1 of All Ireland series and if they lose Rd2B are out, so every team is getting a third chance. Can't complain too much about that? The winners of winners round 2A gets a break week (or 2?) ahead of Quarter finals.
All this being said I long for the day where we would have a complete open draw system for the All Ireland Series in an AFL type format. Teams play each other home and away. Miles off it at the moment because of provincial council power of course.
Quote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 02:26:59 PMQuote from: thewobbler on June 02, 2025, 06:49:32 AMQuote from: joemamas on June 02, 2025, 12:41:42 AMDigressing a bit, but still on point.
Everyone (well most) agree that football has been refreshingly good this year.
personally, I cannot watch enough of it, after years of almost giving up on it.
Ok, so if you are a company making a product, lets use Apple IPhone, and it is popular and everyone wants it, what would you do. Increase production, make it more available to consumers.
What do the GAA do, put a restrictive availability on their product.
Four week from today June 29th, there will be four teams left in the 2025 championship.
Six weeks from today, there will be two.
Eight weeks from today, it will be all over by July 27th.
You could not make it up.
Roll on the premier league and Rugby ::) ::)
Yeah let's go back to having a month between provincial finals and the All Ireland semis, and the same again between the semis and the AI final.
That'll help with whatever it is you think we need help with.
Yeah that's what we need.
Super idea.
yep, that was exactly my point, have a month between all games, ::)
I should have spelt it out, that extending the intercounty season by ONE or TWO weeks, would not hurt.
I feel the whole thing is too condensed.
That was my point.
But I think you might be missing a key point of what's so good, now that the competition format has blended with the new rules. Ie that as there's no elongated bloat between games all fans can look forward to more and get sated quickly, that injuries, tiredness and suspensions add significant jeopardy, that managers have so little time to prepare and reset for the opposition that they have to focus mainly on their own game.
I'm not saying it's perfect. But it is getting closer to what NFL (gridiron) has, which is the best competition format of all; one in which seeding clearly helps but doesn't determine your season, one in which winning comes to down to small margins (including luck), one which requires the "manliness" of playing through pain barriers, alongside skill and tactics, one that rides a wave of national attention for a short but very focused period.
More time would just be filled by more training or challenge games behind closed doors. Possibly this way players might get some time off to be fresh for games.
Complaints are really about a loss of control, the chaos in individual matches and from one week to the next is a good thing.
This may be the best thread to post this as its definitely a BIG elephant in the room.
Does anyone at the top care about club football?
3 stories I have read today:
A survey to be undertaken on the amateur status and all it talks about is county football. Do they not realise how much is being spent by each club? Overall it would dwarf what is spent on county teams. And the players are putting collosal effort in a lot of cases. Yet the amount of REAL games they get each year is embarrassing.
Tom Dempsey of Wexford saying the young people won't get a chance to see their heroes as Wexford are out of the hurling championship. Do these lads not play for their clubs? Can the young people not have local heroes and see and know them up close?
Poacher saying that the Leitrim lads can rest for a few weeks and then get onto S&C and get ready for next year. Do they not have clubs to go and play for?
All focus is on county football. When are clubs fighting back?
That's a fair point but I do think the GAA show their support for the clubs in terms of grants, coaching, etc. Look at the Cúl Camps - a huge movement and massive success that will have thousands of kids buzzing and in their gear.
But the national media and plenty in it barely have a clue of the Tailteann Cup or the likes, so what hope has the clubs.
County managers warring with clubs helped to push the split season and then some joirnos were not keen on split season as they would have to actually find stories (and there are so many great ones).