So...surely there's 100 pages in this one given the history!
It's funny, wouldn't half as confident as I was of a win going into the 2021 Semi final. But can see us winning if David Cliff, Seánie and Paudie are on song. Midfield area is the big concern for me. And who is going to mark Darragh Canavan. Tom Sull would normally take McCurry with Foley on Donnelly but Tom may need to take Darragh Canavan. Don't see another viable option.
Going to be interesting as always anyway!
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Have beaten Kerry twice in the league since that 2021 championship meeting. In March against a full strength Kerry 1-15 to 2-8
And last year in Killarney 1-15 to 2-11 the only league or championship defeat Kerry had in 2022.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Imho, Tyrone have better backs, midfield and both teams have some very tasty forwards
Fully expect Darragh to be taken out of it early on .........again. Kerry have a habit of that
Tyrone to win by 3
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
That often gets overlooked. People said Kerry were unlucky that day however they failed to acknowledge that Tyrone played with 14 men for 20 minutes.
However given the Tyrone panel is lighter this year I would say Kerry will win it.
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 26, 2023, 08:02:53 PM
Imho, Tyrone have better backs, midfield and both teams have some very tasty forwards
Fully expect Darragh to be taken out of it early on .........again. Kerry have a habit of that
Tyrone to win by 3
Because that's not something that Tyrone would do at all, at all..
I agree Tyrone midfield is stronger possibly. It's not really about who has stronger "backs" these days so much as how quickly can you get your cover in place or even more importantly that you don't give away shabby turnovers like we did in 2021. The McKenna and McShane goals in that game were shocking from a defensive viewpoint.
Quote from: Dire Ear on June 26, 2023, 08:02:53 PM
Imho, Tyrone have better backs, midfield and both teams have some very tasty forwards
Fully expect Darragh to be taken out of it early on .........again. Kerry have a habit of that
Tyrone to win by 3
Think you might be right here. Calling that Kerry forwards gets at least 2 yellow cards for cynical tackles and a bad challenge on a Tyrone player which the ref will cop out and give a yellow for
Where we are is a bonus and I couldn't be prouder of this group of lads... the likes of Mattie Donnelly, Hampsey,Harte and Mc Curry have led so well and brought what was a tired team back to Croker. I fully expect Kerry to justify their hot favourites tag and have them backed all year for 2 in a row. A step too far perhaps for our warriors but if you are going to beat you might as well be beat by Kerry...
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Did you watch Kerry v Mayo match a few week ago? If Kerry defend as poorly again Tyrone will win this game.
Tyrone as a team don't have the energy of Kerry as a team. If Kerry win this all Ireland they will be well on their way to team of the decade and I for one would be the first to applaud them...
This game is probably the toughest of all to call, both teams know each other so well. Both Kerry and Tyrone will have been timing their tilt at Sam. And can see the all ireland 🇮🇪 champions coming from this match. Easy the most exciting two sides left chasing Sam.both teams have great players throughout and I hope either side win the All Ireland.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Yawn 🥱 🎣
Are the buckfast buses booked yet
This Kerry team is not as good as the 00's team, the presence of Clifford makes a massive difference but if he gets injured they fucked. Midfield likely be better if J Barry not on, he's good man marking Fenton but against most other opposition, he plays poor enough.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Yeah two men black carded and a month of disrupted training leading up to it (nights with only 14/15 training) - everything really went their way to fluke the win. Bit of ignorance round Armagh as to how things work at the business end of the season.
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
I agree 100%. Who would be Tyrone's best option to man mark DC? Hampsey & McNamee are 2 outstanding defenders but i dont think they've the legs for him. Mckernan gets a yellow within 2 minutes.
Looks like a job for Meyler from my outsider's eye viewpoint.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising.
As others have pointed out, Tyrone's preparations were not ideal to say the least, Tyrone were down to 14 for 20 minutes and Kerry should have had multiple black cards too.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
This is the sort of discourse which we saw in the 00s too. Yes, Tyrone doesn't have anyone quite as good as Clifford, but outside of that it's foolish to say Kerry are man for man better. It's debatable at best.
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
He played well in the 2021 game too, but he also gave away the balls which directly led to Tyrone's goals. Worth noting he only scored 0-3 and 0-1 from play in the league matches against Tyrone since 2021.
I don't think it's that simple, he can still play well and end up losing. Tyrone have plenty of firepower up front too and have mostly been playing man to man this year. It's an intriguing battle.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on June 26, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
So...surely there's 100 pages in this one given the history!
It's funny, wouldn't half as confident as I was of a win going into the 2021 Semi final. But can see us winning if David Cliff, Seánie and Paudie are on song. Midfield area is the big concern for me. And who is going to mark Darragh Canavan. Tom Sull would normally take McCurry with Foley on Donnelly but Tom may need to take Darragh Canavan. Don't see another viable option.
Going to be interesting as always anyway!
Why do you have Tyrone on a 'Throne'?! Freudian slip?!!!
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2023, 10:04:38 PM
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
I agree 100%. Who would be Tyrone's best option to man mark DC? Hampsey & McNamee are 2 outstanding defenders but i dont think they've the legs for him. Mckernan gets a yellow within 2 minutes.
Looks like a job for Meyler from my outsider's eye viewpoint.
Probably Hampsey but he's not in form this year.
Meyler a great spoiler but more a man to take a playmaker out of it rather than a sharp scoring forward. Paudie Clifford went to bed after the league match in Omagh picking Meylers Ginger hairs out of his teeth.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2023, 10:04:38 PM
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
I agree 100%. Who would be Tyrone's best option to man mark DC? Hampsey & McNamee are 2 outstanding defenders but i dont think they've the legs for him. Mckernan gets a yellow within 2 minutes.
Looks like a job for Meyler from my outsider's eye viewpoint.
I'd presume Hampsey. Hampsey is actually very quick. I'll be interested to see what Tyrone do. You'd assume there would be a sweeper, but Tyrone have tended to go man for man. I'm not sure who has been on Clifford in the two league games since 2021, but he scored 0-3 and 0-1 from play in those games. So I'd assume whatever was done on those days will be deployed again.
Interesting to see what Kerry do with Tyrone's forwards. They have to somehow keep both canavans and McCurry quite. Not to mention petey and Mattie who usually pop up for a few scores. Throw in a rotation of either Kennedy or Kilpatrick now and again in the forward line and Kerry have their work cut out.
Huge pressure on Kerry imo (already crying abut covid protocols from 2 years ago on socials) - Tyrone have Beaten Kerry in the last 4 games. (League in Edendork '20, AISF'21, League in Killarney '22 and this year), defending AI champs, they need to beat Tyrone and Jack really needs it as well. Tyrone have been stammering through the year and whilst Donegal have been a basket case it was a game they where expected to win well and it was the first time they have shown their teeth did what was expected. The matchups look to be class contests, McNamee and 3 others on DC, Meyler and Paudie, Hampsey on O'Shea, Foley on Donnelly, but the key matchup is who do Kerry match O'Sullivan on he's different class.
Personally if (and its a big if) they can keep Clifford hassled and crowded, then he tends to run out of steam abit, coupled with a tally of around 2-18 and the sight of the green and gold, Tyrone by 3-4
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 26, 2023, 10:24:10 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2023, 10:04:38 PM
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
I agree 100%. Who would be Tyrone's best option to man mark DC? Hampsey & McNamee are 2 outstanding defenders but i dont think they've the legs for him. Mckernan gets a yellow within 2 minutes.
Looks like a job for Meyler from my outsider's eye viewpoint.
I'd presume Hampsey. Hampsey is actually very quick. I'll be interested to see what Tyrone do. You'd assume there would be a sweeper, but Tyrone have tended to go man for man. I'm not sure who has been on Clifford in the two league games since 2021, but he scored 0-3 and 0-1 from play in those games. So I'd assume whatever was done on those days will be deployed again.
Hampsey was one the picking him up in Omagh this year in the league
Mayo showed how to play Kerry a month ago. Just accept that Clifford is going to get 7-10 scores. Don't worry about that, for it's inevitable. Just make sure everyone else gets on top of their opponent, and keep them on the back foot.
Tyrone are well fit for this, especially now Darragh Canavan has blossomed, and McCurry continues to put up big numbers in an oddly anonymous sort of way. Clifford is the best player I've ever seen, but two free scoring forwards is better than one.
I think it will be Hampsey on D Clifford (which will decide the match), with Meyler on Paudie.
Mental how Tyrone are going for 5 in a row against Kerry in all competitions. Must be a first surely.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2023, 10:04:38 PM
Quote from: WT4E on June 26, 2023, 09:59:07 PM
For me it all hinges on David Clifford.
If he can be nullified Tyrone will win
If he's at the races Tyrone are goosed.
It's that simple IMO
I agree 100%. Who would be Tyrone's best option to man mark DC? Hampsey & McNamee are 2 outstanding defenders but i dont think they've the legs for him. Mckernan gets a yellow within 2 minutes.
Looks like a job for Meyler from my outsider's eye viewpoint.
I don't think the job on Clifford decides the match. I honestly think nobody can mark him out of the game if he's on song, so the key for Tyrone is doing their best with Clifford but trying to shut down O'Se and Paudie. If Clifford kicks 0-9 then so be it, the difference will be if O'Se and Paudie chip in with 8 or 9 between them, then we're in trouble. We have done a decent job of snuffing them out in recent games and nobody else in the Kerry forward line or midfield really worries me. The question is, what are Kerry going to do about the Canavan's, McCurry, Donnelly and the Tyrone midfield?
People seem to be forgetting the 6 goal hiding we took before the championship in 2021. Therefore Tyrone have won 4 out of 5 against Kerry so far this decade.
Quote from: restorepride on June 26, 2023, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on June 26, 2023, 07:37:37 PM
So...surely there's 100 pages in this one given the history!
It's funny, wouldn't half as confident as I was of a win going into the 2021 Semi final. But can see us winning if David Cliff, Seánie and Paudie are on song. Midfield area is the big concern for me. And who is going to mark Darragh Canavan. Tom Sull would normally take McCurry with Foley on Donnelly but Tom may need to take Darragh Canavan. Don't see another viable option.
Going to be interesting as always anyway!
Why do you have Tyrone on a 'Throne'?! Freudian slip?!!!
Because that's how it sounds when a lot of people say it! To my ears anyway..
Quote from: clarshack on June 26, 2023, 11:08:56 PM
People seem to be forgetting the 6 goal hiding we took before the championship in 2021. Therefore Tyrone have won 4 out of 5 against Kerry so far this decade.
Cant believe I forgot that - My bad!! thanks for correcting
Quote from: thewobbler on June 26, 2023, 10:40:43 PM
Mayo showed how to play Kerry a month ago. Just accept that Clifford is going to get 7-10 scores. Don't worry about that, for it's inevitable. Just make sure everyone else gets on top of their opponent, and keep them on the back foot.
Tyrone are well fit for this, especially now Darragh Canavan has blossomed, and McCurry continues to put up big numbers in an oddly anonymous sort of way. Clifford is the best player I've ever seen, but two free scoring forwards is better than one.
Kerry was wide open defensively for that game the very opposite to what they were on route to winning the All Ireland last year maybe they haven't had time to correct those issues since but Mayo played against teams that was harder to break down after that Kerry match and scored 0-14,1-11 and 1-10.
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Is Tally coaching Kerry this season?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Agree entirely re O'Shea
By rights Kerry should be winning this handy. Tyrone with 2 wins out of 7 in the Cship against Fermanagh and half a Donegal team in disarray.
Having said that Kerry Tyrone games take on a life of their own and there's a slim chance they could win but I can't see it.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 26, 2023, 08:50:15 PM
This Kerry team is not as good as the 00's team, the presence of Clifford makes a massive difference but if he gets injured they fucked. Midfield likely be better if J Barry not on, he's good man marking Fenton but against most other opposition, he plays poor enough.
Jack Barry carving out a 7+ year career in the prestigious green and gold is a hard one to get the head around. BANG average, and provided a shocking mistake in 2021 for McKenna to rip the net. I give kerry the edge but feel a lot better heading down on Saturday in comparison to how I felt in 2021, and we just about nicked that one. Hopeful more than confident.
Thankfully Tyrone v Kerry game should be a cracker, I do believe in particular Tyrone bring a different dynamic and excitement of any the northern teams to croke pk, I wouldn't rate derry,Armagh too boring for my liking, mind ya monaghan can entertain and l would ove to see them have a cut.
Ever since that Westmeath free went inches wide , I've had a bad feeling about Tyrone this year
They're like that Voldemort fella. You need to really kill them off, otherwise they could come back and do the unthinkable.
If Breffni Park had Hawkeye, J Heslin's score could well have been given.
I think the refereeing standard in the westmeath v Tyrone game was outrageously disgusting where he kept westmeath in the game with a blatant penalty neck drag down, rewarded with yellow card and free and numerous easy frees anywhere close to goal for westmeath, Tyrone could not buy a free that evening. That referee should never be allowed to ref again.
Kerry couldn't beat us in the Championship in the Noughties, we couldn't beat them in the Tens, and this is now our decade again, with the Kingdom unable to turn us over in the Twenties.
Sin é. ;)
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
Quote from: clarshack on June 26, 2023, 11:08:56 PM
People seem to be forgetting the 6 goal hiding we took before the championship in 2021. Therefore Tyrone have won 4 out of 5 against Kerry so far this decade.
Yes let's not forget....I just think we should salute that the character and bravery shown by the covid 15 when facing unbelievable odds never mind go out and down the kingdom.
All you hear is league means nothing, then nxt thingy is, oh we beaten this team how many times recently in the league. Make your mind up.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2023, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
The way McGeary has played since he got poty he absolutely would get a place in the Tyrone half forward line.
Quote from: statto on June 27, 2023, 09:00:22 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2023, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
The way McGeary has played since he got poty he absolutely would get a place in the Tyrone half forward line.
Would agree on McGeary til last day out. Noticed a marked improvement in him against Donegal - maybe finding form at the right time?
Was totally down about the whole thing after Westmeath game but now feeling confident enough. Amazing what a week can do.
The loser of this game should be cheering on the winner to go on and win the All-Ireland.
The 4 times Tyrone won the All-Ireland, Kerry won the following year.
The last time Kerry won 2 in a row, Tyrone won the following year and their 2 in a row before that, Tyrone went 7 pts up in the following final, albeit ended up losing by 8, however I'm sure if Tyrone went 7 pts up in the 2024 final they'd go on to win it, plus if they were awarded a penalty they wouldn't take their point.
Quote from: blanketattack on June 27, 2023, 09:28:36 AM
The loser of this game should be cheering on the winner to go on and win the All-Ireland.
The 4 times Tyrone won the All-Ireland, Kerry won the following year.
The last time Kerry won 2 in a row, Tyrone won the following year and their 2 in a row before that, Tyrone went 7 pts up in the following final, albeit ended up losing by 8, however I'm sure if Tyrone went 7 pts up in the 2024 final they'd go on to win it, plus if they were awarded a penalty they wouldn't take their point.
wtf are you on about?
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 09:10:22 AM
Quote from: statto on June 27, 2023, 09:00:22 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2023, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
The way McGeary has played since he got poty he absolutely would get a place in the Tyrone half forward line.
Would agree on McGeary til last day out. Noticed a marked improvement in him against Donegal - maybe finding form at the right time?
Was totally down about the whole thing after Westmeath game but now feeling confident enough. Amazing what a week can do.
Tyrone certainly produced their best performance to date at the weekend, Donegal were awful I thought though. Kerry intensity was noticeably improved the last day out too and will probably have to go up a few levels again at the weekend.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on June 27, 2023, 08:57:30 AM
All you hear is league means nothing, then nxt thingy is, oh we beaten this team how many times recently in the league. Make your mind up.
You hear this nonsense of the league not mattering every year at this stage. Yet its six 2024 Division 1 and 2 Divison 2 teams in the quarter finals. Funny that.
If teams don't try in the league then Kerry should be worried that Tyrone beat them without trying.
2 flawed teams. Neither has really got going this year.
I agree.... my money is on Galway.
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 26, 2023, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Have beaten Kerry twice in the league since that 2021 championship meeting. In March against a full strength Kerry 1-15 to 2-8
And last year in Killarney 1-15 to 2-11 the only league or championship defeat Kerry had in 2022.
The game that was a dead rubber for Kerry where they rested lots of players and had the league final the following week, and that's somehow supposed to play a factor?
Quote from: blanketattack on June 27, 2023, 10:37:54 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 26, 2023, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Have beaten Kerry twice in the league since that 2021 championship meeting. In March against a full strength Kerry 1-15 to 2-8
And last year in Killarney 1-15 to 2-11 the only league or championship defeat Kerry had in 2022.
The game that was a dead rubber for Kerry where they rested lots of players and had the league final the following week, and that's somehow supposed to play a factor?
It'll play no factor but that's not exactly right about resting lots of players. They were happy to relegate Tyrone and 9 outfield starters from the All Ireland final started the match (including Clifford) and another three came of the bench.
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 10:27:34 AM
2 flawed teams. Neither has really got going this year.
By that rationale who isn't flawed?
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 27, 2023, 10:50:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 10:27:34 AM
2 flawed teams. Neither has really got going this year.
By that rationale who isn't flawed?
Nobody. That's the beauty of it. Following 6 years of Dublin the championship is really open this year
Quote from: kickingmule on June 27, 2023, 12:39:58 AM
Thankfully Tyrone v Kerry game should be a cracker, I do believe in particular Tyrone bring a different dynamic and excitement of any the northern teams to croke pk, I wouldn't rate derry,Armagh too boring for my liking, mind ya monaghan can entertain and l would ove to see them have a cut.
No excitement in the Armagh v Galway game last year?
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 27, 2023, 10:42:33 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on June 27, 2023, 10:37:54 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on June 26, 2023, 07:52:47 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Have beaten Kerry twice in the league since that 2021 championship meeting. In March against a full strength Kerry 1-15 to 2-8
And last year in Killarney 1-15 to 2-11 the only league or championship defeat Kerry had in 2022.
The game that was a dead rubber for Kerry where they rested lots of players and had the league final the following week, and that's somehow supposed to play a factor?
It'll play no factor but that's not exactly right about resting lots of players. They were happy to relegate Tyrone and 9 outfield starters from the All Ireland final started the match (including Clifford) and another three came of the bench.
Rested 6 = lots.
You think Kerry would prefer to relegate Tyrone than Dublin???
Quote from: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 10:27:34 AM
2 flawed teams. Neither has really got going this year.
all the teams left have their flaws. No stand out team, Dubs and Kerry probably slight favourites but neither close to the great Dub team of a few years back.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Tyrone inherited Down's attitude to Kerry. Ulster football was weak in the the 70s and 80s but otherwise the service has been decent since the 60s.
Interesting to see what Kerry do with Paudie Clifford. Meyler has got the better of this battle in recent times and that battle alone will have a big bearing on the game. Mattie Donnelly also was outstanding in the league game and handled serious ball in every game since.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Kerry beat Clare, Tipp and Cork enroute to the 2021 AI semi. So not surprising that they were steamrolling. Tyrone had to deal with several players recovering, training with just 15 men for most of that time and dealing with intense scrutiny around conspiracy theories. Yet, for some reason, Kerry having to train and prepare for an extra two weeks was the worse situation to be in?
These Kerry and Tyrone teams have achieved the same number of finals and All-Irelands wins. Tyrone have been more inconsistent, but Kerry pretty have a by to at least the quarter finals every year. Tyrone have never had such luxury and every All-Ireland win has been hard fought.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 01:06:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Kerry beat Clare, Tipp and Cork enroute to the 2021 AI semi. So not surprising that they were steamrolling. Tyrone had to deal with several players recovering, training with just 15 men for most of that time and dealing with intense scrutiny around conspiracy theories. Yet, for some reason, Kerry having to train and prepare for an extra two weeks was the worse situation to be in?
These Kerry and Tyrone teams have achieved the same number of finals and All-Irelands wins. Tyrone have been more inconsistent, but Kerry pretty have a by to at least the quarter finals every year. Tyrone have never had such luxury and every All-Ireland win has been hard fought.
I don't really want to get drawn into the events around the whole Covid build up to that 2021 semi final again as they were debated to death at the time. I think this weekends games will answer a lot of those questions though with no excuses for either team this time.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 01:06:22 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Kerry beat Clare, Tipp and Cork enroute to the 2021 AI semi. So not surprising that they were steamrolling. Tyrone had to deal with several players recovering, training with just 15 men for most of that time and dealing with intense scrutiny around conspiracy theories. Yet, for some reason, Kerry having to train and prepare for an extra two weeks was the worse situation to be in?
These Kerry and Tyrone teams have achieved the same number of finals and All-Irelands wins. Tyrone have been more inconsistent, but Kerry pretty have a by to at least the quarter finals every year. Tyrone have never had such luxury and every All-Ireland win has been hard fought.
I don't really want to get drawn into the events around the whole Covid build up to that 2021 semi final again as they were debated to death at the time. I think this weekends games will answer a lot of those questions though with no excuses for either team this time.
Did it hurt that day YC?
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference. His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know.
Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance. At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack. Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts. Good teams make their own luck as they say.
That's a more balanced view of it and I wouldn't disagree with most of it. Dublin had dropped back a fair bit and left an opportunity, Mayo weren't at the same level they had been either. Tyrone had been consistently reaching the latter stages and had (have) some brilliant players, and with a crucial change in approach too they took their chance. It simply doesn't stand up for anyone to suggest they came from nowhere.
Clifford going off might have been crucial right enough. They missed a great goal chance in the first half too, that might have been crucial. Tyrone being reduced to 14 twice when other rather similar decisions weren't punished in the same way might have been crucial. Tyrone's covid hit buildup might have been crucial. We can argue those points, but Tyrone had been building for years and that summer, despite some serious handicaps, beat the reigning Ulster champions, the two other dominant Ulster sides of recent years, then beat Kerry and Mayo. The only side of note they didn't defeat was Dublin because they didn't play them.
The thing though that 2021 showed is the belief Tyrone have in themselves and the fact that they know how to win games. For example for me in the final from 15 minutes in there was only one winner whether that penalty that was missed was scored or not. They know how to suffocate teams when they get going.
Under Harte they were great at that but it usually took them a run of games to get that going.
You need more than belief against Kerry to beat them but it takes belief to not get flustered when the likes of Clifford is wreaking havoc.
With the new format this year I think it's been a very strange season so far with no team showing real good form.
Only Derry and Dublin remain unbeaten but with the Dubs having only drawn with the only Div 1 team they've met.
So many teams seem capable of beating each other as we've seen in the group stages and there has been an element of trying to get to the quarter finals with as little effort as possible or not showing too much of your hand.
A lot of talk about peaking at the right time, not coming in undercooked and can a team turn it on when needed.
Kerry have been getting to quarters and semis for years trying to peak for August football and Tyrone would appear to be trying to do the same this year with some very poor performances here and there.
I suppose Kerry will not be as naive as they were in 2021 where they seemed to be unprepared (again) for what Tyrone would throw at them. Until that game Kerry were scoring goals for fun whereas Tyrone couldn't buy a goal. That all changed that day.
We may have lost McKenna but we've gained two Canavans and Mattie seems to be back to his old self. So our forward line seems a lot more potent although our bench is weak in my eyes which was a huge factor in closing out games in 21.
Clifford is so far ahead of everyone else and if Kerry can find him with good ball he will win marks and score for fun.
I suppose it all comes down to how both teams play on the day but to me Tyrone aren't as bad as many "neutrals" think and maybe Kerry aren't as good as ye think either or at least haven't been so far.
Quote from: statto on June 27, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference. His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know.
Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance. At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack. Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts. Good teams make their own luck as they say.
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Yeah, that Donegal team weren't really up to much as was shown in the final, but Tyrone in 2021 showed their worth in the final.
That Donegal team were very good. For all the McGuinness plaudits he didn't know what to do when Fitzmaurice completely mirrored his gameplan but they did alright the rest of the year.
Jayas the bitterness is hanging out of of that boy yellowcard, Donegal and Tyrone have done their counties proud and won their all Ireland Titles in style. Maybe its time for the weaker counties of ulster to stop the thrash talk and get their act together.
Quote from: kickingmule on June 27, 2023, 05:06:33 PM
Jayas the bitterness is hanging out of of that boy yellowcard, Donegal and Tyrone have done their counties proud and won their all Ireland Titles in style. Maybe its time for the weaker counties of ulster to stop the thrash talk and get their act together.
He's on another thread saying Armagh only got relegated because Mayo put out a weak team v Monaghan. And Armagh only lost to Tyrone because they missed chances. He doesn't seem to get how sport actually works.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.
I think this is a bit revisionist too. Tyrone and Kerry were on similar levels in 2019. Tyrone were too defensive in 2017, but in 2019, McShane was right up there with the best forwards so there was more direct attacking threat. Tyrone were leading by 4 and dominating Kerry at the break and were in the lead up until the 55th minute, so it wasn't exactly 'staying' with them. Although the margins were similar, I think Tyrone were staying with Kerry in the 2015 game, but in 2019 they mismanaged a game they should have won and Kerry punished some bad mistakes.
By 2021, Tyrone had added Conor McKenna, Canavan, Kilpatrick and a few others, had a decent midfield and had started playing to McCurry's strengths. While it caught people off guard. It wasn't exactly a bolt from the blue to see a team that had been consistently competing for honours to beat another team which had been consistently competing for honours and who had recently contested a close championship game which either team could have won.
a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.
Quote from: WhoDat on June 27, 2023, 08:01:18 PM
a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.
I said the same thing on Sat after the Donegal game. Would have taken anyone in quarter final bar Kerry. Be interesting to see how it plays out.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2023, 03:33:34 PM
With the new format this year I think it's been a very strange season so far with no team showing real good form.
Only Derry and Dublin remain unbeaten but with the Dubs having only drawn with the only Div 1 team they've met.
So many teams seem capable of beating each other as we've seen in the group stages and there has been an element of trying to get to the quarter finals with as little effort as possible or not showing too much of your hand.
A lot of talk about peaking at the right time, not coming in undercooked and can a team turn it on when needed.
Kerry have been getting to quarters and semis for years trying to peak for August football and Tyrone would appear to be trying to do the same this year with some very poor performances here and there.
I suppose Kerry will not be as naive as they were in 2021 where they seemed to be unprepared (again) for what Tyrone would throw at them. Until that game Kerry were scoring goals for fun whereas Tyrone couldn't buy a goal. That all changed that day.
We may have lost McKenna but we've gained two Canavans and Mattie seems to be back to his old self. So our forward line seems a lot more potent although our bench is weak in my eyes which was a huge factor in closing out games in 21.
Clifford is so far ahead of everyone else and if Kerry can find him with good ball he will win marks and score for fun.
I suppose it all comes down to how both teams play on the day but to me Tyrone aren't as bad as many "neutrals" think and maybe Kerry aren't as good as ye think either or at least haven't been so far.
If McKenna had stayed and operated at 11 - Tyrones forward unit would be a scary prospect.
Meyler McKenna Ruairi
Darragh Mattie Dazzler
'DROOLING'
There's little point in arguing with a bigot
Who will never see the merits of your teams progress, it has taken years for sides like Tyrone setting up proper structures,coaching and looking after talent from the minute they're able to walk. So to be honest it comes down to shit talk, and total bitterness for fans to be jealous of your teams progress down through the years. ...eg: Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo ,Dublin , Down and caven/Donegal etc.
Quote from: WhoDat on June 27, 2023, 08:01:18 PM
a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.
I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.
Quote from: rrhf on June 27, 2023, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: WhoDat on June 27, 2023, 08:01:18 PM
a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.
I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.
Has "Covid" struck down the team AGAIN??!!
Quote from: screenexile on June 27, 2023, 11:06:50 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 27, 2023, 10:56:50 PM
Quote from: WhoDat on June 27, 2023, 08:01:18 PM
a game too soon for tyrone. they're only starting to scrape a bit of form together, i think they would have liked one more game to warm themselves up before facing kerry. if it was a semi and tyrone had won a game in croke park already this year, i would say it was 50/50, but as it stands, i think it's coming too soon for tyrone.
I think that's a fair point, but with a lighter panel the prospect of extra time or close end to end games could be our downfall and to progress much further it is all required. We don't have the same team energy levels as 2021. We have the will but I just can't see the way. I think we will hang in for about 45 mins and expect Kerry to finish the stronger, but I am just happy that some of these great servants to Tyrone football get to play at Croke Park again, particularly after last year. They deserve their swan song in Croke park.
Has "Covid" struck down the team AGAIN??!!
Good wan!! Don't tell Spillane!
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 27, 2023, 01:43:58 AM
If Breffni Park had Hawkeye, J Heslin's score could well have been given.
I was right behind it and it definitely was wide, Heslin himself was interviewed after the game and said it was wide too.
Quote from: omagh_gael on June 27, 2023, 11:40:51 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 27, 2023, 01:43:58 AM
If Breffni Park had Hawkeye, J Heslin's score could well have been given.
I was right behind it and it definitely was wide, Heslin himself was interviewed after the game and said it was wide too.
But if Hawkeye allowed it, it wouldn't matter what you saw! Conor Glsss and all that on a dodgy day in Croke Park.
Quote from: WT4E on June 27, 2023, 08:57:21 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 27, 2023, 03:33:34 PM
With the new format this year I think it's been a very strange season so far with no team showing real good form.
Only Derry and Dublin remain unbeaten but with the Dubs having only drawn with the only Div 1 team they've met.
So many teams seem capable of beating each other as we've seen in the group stages and there has been an element of trying to get to the quarter finals with as little effort as possible or not showing too much of your hand.
A lot of talk about peaking at the right time, not coming in undercooked and can a team turn it on when needed.
Kerry have been getting to quarters and semis for years trying to peak for August football and Tyrone would appear to be trying to do the same this year with some very poor performances here and there.
I suppose Kerry will not be as naive as they were in 2021 where they seemed to be unprepared (again) for what Tyrone would throw at them. Until that game Kerry were scoring goals for fun whereas Tyrone couldn't buy a goal. That all changed that day.
We may have lost McKenna but we've gained two Canavans and Mattie seems to be back to his old self. So our forward line seems a lot more potent although our bench is weak in my eyes which was a huge factor in closing out games in 21.
Clifford is so far ahead of everyone else and if Kerry can find him with good ball he will win marks and score for fun.
I suppose it all comes down to how both teams play on the day but to me Tyrone aren't as bad as many "neutrals" think and maybe Kerry aren't as good as ye think either or at least haven't been so far.
If McKenna had stayed and operated at 11 - Tyrones forward unit would be a scary prospect.
Meyler McKenna Ruairi
Darragh Mattie Dazzler
'DROOLING'
McKenna didn't seem half interested when he was finally settled back home and realised playing for Tyrone wasn't just as nice as the professional lifestyle in the sunny climates. He wasn't a guaranteed starter in the end.
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
Lot of giddy fans, Tyrone drew with a division 3 side and beat a poor Donegal side thats best players decided to stay at home this year.
Should be an intriguing game and genuinely can't call it. We all know how good Tyrone can be (unfortunately) but obviously depends which side turn up. Kerry will be out for revenge after 2021 for sure and should have no complacency this time. If we beat Monaghan I've a strong feeling we'll get the winner of this in the semi.
Kerry by 12 or Tyrone by 2.
Can't decide which one...
Quote from: Whishtup on June 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 28, 2023, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on June 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.
Joe Oguz is at least equal to Ben McDonnell IMHO. Certainly in any of the Errigal games I watched last year. Also Oguz did very well in the league game against Kerry this year, probably his best performance to date in the Tyrone senior jersey. He hasn't really got going in the championship as of yet, however we know from underage and the club scene... there is more to come
Quote from: Jerome on June 28, 2023, 10:25:42 AM
Lot of giddy fans, Tyrone drew with a division 3 side and beat a poor Donegal side thats best players decided to stay at home this year.
Keery lost to team who were beat by a division 2 team. That's much worse.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: statto on June 27, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference. His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know.
Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance. At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack. Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts. Good teams make their own luck as they say.
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
Regardless of why Clifford went off it is a degree of good fortune that a once in a generation player goes off when a game is in the melting pot. That would have had an impact on both teams mentally Tyrone in a positive light and Kerry negatively.
Quote from: statto on June 28, 2023, 11:31:07 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Quote from: statto on June 27, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference. His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know.
Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance. At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack. Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts. Good teams make their own luck as they say.
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
Regardless of why Clifford went off it is a degree of good fortune that a once in a generation player goes off when a game is in the melting pot. That would have had an impact on both teams mentally Tyrone in a positive light and Kerry negatively.
You could over analyse everything tho. Tyrone down to 14 men for over a quarter of the game. I'd argue that should have had a bigger impact than losing Clifford.
I still feel like Kerry will edge it and it's going to be feisty but couple points either way and wouldn't rule out a draw after normal time.
I'm not overly confident of our ability to change things during a game tho. So hoping for a good start.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 28, 2023, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on June 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.
I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game
Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!
https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour/gaahr-2662023192?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing (https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour/gaahr-2662023192?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing)
Quote from: Mikhailov on June 28, 2023, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 28, 2023, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on June 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.
I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game
He was replaced on the bench on Saturday night and has had a few injuries during the year.
Quote from: Mikhailov on June 28, 2023, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 28, 2023, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on June 28, 2023, 10:23:12 AM
There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard. These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion. The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor. My only concern is this. Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs. Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management. And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench. I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops. I hope I'm proven wrong.
It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.
I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game
McGleenan wasnt on the bench against Donegal. He was replaced at No 23 i think it was by Carrickmores Rory Donnelly prior to throw in. Sounds like injury?
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
Sludden and Oguz too. The bench hasn't had a big impact so far this year, but there are good players there. Hopefully McGleenan will be available. He's a good wild card to be able to play. I wouldn't be surprised to see Burns, Sludden or Oguz come in, Ruairí would be the most likely to lose out, but I don't want that nor do I expect it.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on June 28, 2023, 02:17:55 PM
Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!
He did start playing with the club again and got back into great form and that's why he was asked to come back for the county. Did you know he wouldn't accept his winners medal that year? Very humble guy.
WUM are in full force on most blogs, I suppose school must be out in Kerry.
Mod's do every genuine supporter/blogger a favor and cut it out.
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues? They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out. Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.
Quote from: statto on June 28, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues? They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out. Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.
Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 28, 2023, 03:08:04 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on June 28, 2023, 02:17:55 PM
Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!
He did start playing with the club again and got back into great form and that's why he was asked to come back for the county. Did you know he wouldn't accept his winners medal that year? Very humble guy.
I was going to say, I thought his club form at the time was part of the reason he was invited back in as he was racking up the scores.
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 28, 2023, 03:45:06 PM
Quote from: statto on June 28, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues? They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out. Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.
Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park
Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.
Sludden and McGeary were very active on the scoreboard back in '21. Often getting 2 or 3 points each but that has fallen away this year. Also think Petey doesn't seem to be shooting as much as he used to either.
McKernan seems to find himself up front quite a lot in games and has good feet.
Talking of Petey and that great run and shot v Armagh where he hit the post.
I'm surprised we don't try that more often. Remember C.Quinn got a lovely goal this year.
Darragh like his dad, is very good at making clever runs off the ball and if he had more off the ball runners he would have a lot more options.
As I said before, I wish we had more forwards on the sub bench. Imagine having Bradley to come in for last 20 mins.
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 04:21:11 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 28, 2023, 03:45:06 PM
Quote from: statto on June 28, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues? They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out. Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.
Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park
Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.
Is there any chance they will put Burns in front the start and leave Ruairi as a bench option?
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 28, 2023, 04:57:14 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 04:21:11 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 28, 2023, 03:45:06 PM
Quote from: statto on June 28, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 28, 2023, 02:34:55 PM
We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.
The lack of strength in depth on the Tyrone bench is what is going to cause them issues? They have a excellent keeper, fb line, midfield and ff line but at this level you are going to need more than players who are good at closing the game out. Donnelly for me has never really cut the mustard, Devlin and O'Donnell are untested at this level.
Sludden is an obvious player on bench who is out of form and would be a key man to come in. McShane is not the player to close out a game but does attract the ball in Croke Park
Thats my point. Our bench is grand when we are winning and need to make a few changes in the last 10 to defend a lead. The issue is on Saturday if we are chasing the game with 10/15 minutes to go. We will have no choice but to throw McShane in when we don't know what kind of form in basically because apart from Sludden he is our only forward option on the bench.
Is there any chance they will put Burns in front the start and leave Ruairi as a bench option?
Very good chance this happens, Burns was very good in the league game against Kerry playing in front of Clifford.
McShane doesn't become a bad player over night, he can cause serious damage coming off the bench to any team, the lad needs a chance, add to the that... mcgearey [ POTY 21] SLUDDEN MCGleenan, +two young lads O'Donnell, Devlin, and Richard Donnelly.
This bench is every bit as strong as 2021. Bar Canavan and mcshane who were these amazing subs coming on in 2021???.
Jack O'Connor
'We thought we were done with Peter Canavan, but now he's produced two sons,'
"Well sure, look, we had a fifty fifty chance of getting Tyrone or Monaghan. So it's Tyrone and, yeah, we'll have to prepare accordingly,"
"I never get too excited about that... When I heard it was Tyrone what do you do only just deal with the reality of it? At this stage of the championship anyway there's no easy teams.
"Tyrone certainly will be a tough assignment obviously, because they had a big win the last day above in Ballybofey [against Donegal], which isn't an easy place for any team to go to as we found out the first day of the year this year."
"Well I suppose the Kerry v Tyrone rivalry it's going on twenty years now," O'Connor noted.
"The rivalry started in 2003 and sure, look, I suppose they beat us in three championships '03, '05 and '08. Kerry supporters have a long memory and I was only saying a while ago we thought we were done with Peter Canavan, but now he's produced two sons that are ready to cut loose! It's amazing the way the tradition comes to the fore.
"How would I characterise the rivalry? It's certainly they were getting the better of us back then, but I saw somewhere today that we have beaten Tyrone in three of the last four championship meetings. So hopefully we'll try to keep that trend going."
"There were a lot of mitigating factors in the 2021 All Ireland semi final, that delay and all of it, but the bottom line was Tyrone got three goals on the day and Kerry got no goals and that was the deciding factor.
"This is another year, it's two years on, we'll be trying to put out our best version of ourselves and so will Tyrone, but once the game starts it's about the form you have this year not two years ago."
Quote from: kickingmule on June 28, 2023, 05:53:32 PM
McShane doesn't become a bad player over night, he can cause serious damage coming off the bench to any team, the lad needs a chance, add to the that... mcgearey [ POTY 21] SLUDDEN MCGleenan, +two young lads O'Donnell, Devlin, and Richard Donnelly.
This bench is every bit as strong as 2021. Bar Canavan and mcshane who were these amazing subs coming on in 2021???.
Subs used: Cathal McShane (1-03, 1f) for Kennedy (43) Tiernan McCann for O'Neill (56) Darragh Canavan for Sludden (64) Ben McDonnell for Kilpartrick (73) Liam Rafferty for Harte (76 mins) Mark Bradley for Sludden (76)
Bradley would be a significant upgrade on what is currently there from a scoring perspective. Highly unlikely Tyrone can spring 1-3 from one player from the bench at the weekend. McShane in 2021 was still a real force to be reckoned with but more questions than answers in 2023, same could be said of Sludden( great servant and player at his peak)
I would agree Bradley was a good option coming of the bench, but who's to say Mcshane, Sludden,Mcgearey etc can't hit rich vain of form mind ya it's not asif the team in general have been ripping it up. So all of a sudden the dynamic changes and we have a serious impact of the bench. Nothing would surprise me anymore regarding Tyrone.
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 02:45:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 27, 2023, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on June 27, 2023, 11:50:55 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: NotedObserver on June 26, 2023, 07:57:58 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 26, 2023, 07:41:27 PM
Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.
Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.
It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.
Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.
Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.
What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.
Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.
Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.
Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.
So now you've moved the debate onto the overall merit of that 2021 Tyrone team and not whether the actual result itself against Kerry was a bolt from the blue or a smash and grab. That's a different argument. Tyrone were a semi final team hovering around that sort of level for a good few years under Mickey Harte but never really looked like winning an AI title. Which is no slight given the strength of Dublin during this era but it was just a matter of fact. I thought their chance had gone after they were beaten in the final in 2018. In 2019 they stayed with a very young Kerry side for a good part of the game but were eventually over ran and deservedly beaten in the end. They wouldn't have beaten Dublin in that final in any case imo. After Harte was ousted I don't think anyone bar the most optimistic of Tyrone supporters, thought they could win an AI title certainly in the short term. To that extent it was a big surprise but the Kerry match itself given how strong they had looked that year was to my mind at least, a bit of a bolt from the blue. But none of that really matters anyway as the history books will show that Tyrone won the AI title in 2021 and you really shouldn't care how it happened or how they measure up against other winners.
Ultimately yellowcard - and this is based on your posts all year - I fear your personal feelings on Tyrone cloud your judgment to an extent that you can't judge things objectively at all. Either that or your football knowledge is horrific, but I'll be charitable and says it's the former. Regardless, we will never agree so I'll just wish Armagh all the best and hope you get the bolts from the blue, smash and grabs, and goals at the right time that will allow you to compete with the best teams.
The poster that said Tyrone by two or Kerry by 12, I can identify with that. Tyrone are capable of doing it but after such a prolonged spell of patchy form it's a big ask and it could conceivably go badly wrong. Lack of depth off the bench would be a worry for me.
All that seems to be talked about ongoing at the minute is this amazing strength in depth of certain teams in the pot for Sam, personally I think it's all a load of nonsense, I have yet to see any county blessed in any regard to a strong bench. At the end of the day all teams will have 15 players at any one time on the field of play.
Quote from: kickingmule on June 29, 2023, 10:59:46 AM
All that seems to be talked about ongoing at the minute is this amazing strength in depth of certain teams in the pot for Sam, personally I think it's all a load of nonsense, I have yet to see any county blessed in any regard to a strong bench. At the end of the day all teams will have 15 players at any one time on the field of play.
The bench is massive in todays games. Dubs, Tyrone and Kerry have massively benefited in recent years with impact of the bench. Mayo are playing at the moment with leaving an impact of the bench in mind.
Quote from: kickingmule on June 29, 2023, 10:59:46 AM
All that seems to be talked about ongoing at the minute is this amazing strength in depth of certain teams in the pot for Sam, personally I think it's all a load of nonsense, I have yet to see any county blessed in any regard to a strong bench. At the end of the day all teams will have 15 players at any one time on the field of play.
10 years ago I'd have agreed with you, but these days you've 13 players that sprint the full length of the pitch regularly depending on whether their team or the opposition team gets possession, plus keep ball is exhausting, particularly for the chasers, so some players will be absolutely beat after 55-60, plus injury time regularly extends the game to 77 minutes, so the fresh legs will be pivotal to a team.
At the same time, for a lot of the players just a fit workhouse is all that is needed to replace them. Someone who can run non-stop and handpass the ball accurately.
Quote from: blanketattack on June 29, 2023, 02:52:53 PM
Quote from: kickingmule on June 29, 2023, 10:59:46 AM
All that seems to be talked about ongoing at the minute is this amazing strength in depth of certain teams in the pot for Sam, personally I think it's all a load of nonsense, I have yet to see any county blessed in any regard to a strong bench. At the end of the day all teams will have 15 players at any one time on the field of play.
10 years ago I'd have agreed with you, but these days you've 13 players that sprint the full length of the pitch regularly depending on whether their team or the opposition team gets possession, plus keep ball is exhausting, particularly for the chasers, so some players will be absolutely beat after 55-60, plus injury time regularly extends the game to 77 minutes, so the fresh legs will be pivotal to a team.
At the same time, for a lot of the players just a fit workhouse is all that is needed to replace them. Someone who can run non-stop and handpass the ball accurately.
yeah I suppose very few teams have 1 Canavan never mind 2 of them.[jayas christ what a nightmare] a good fit or fit replacements should be all that's needed in todays game. Where fitness is a gimmie to any side with title aspirations.
Tyrone bench looks decent to me
Cathal McShane - all star winner
Frank Burns - all star winner
Niall Devlin - u20 AI winning captain
McGleenan - U20 AI winner
Niall Sludden - All star winner / experienced player
Richard Donnelly - experienced player / lot of big game experience
Oguz - Big Athletic player / decent season to date
O'Donnell - u20 - AI winner last year / lots of pace.
Clarke - don't know much about him but he did well v Westmeath
Prob a few others as well
Darragh has it - He has the xfactor. Ruairi on the other hand still has a lot to prove (which im in no doubt he will). This weekend will be a big test for him at his age. Dooher is a big fan of his wing forwards working back, tackling etc etc. Add in the Kerry factor, Gavin White, first game in croke park, Jack O Connor building pressure with his comments this week.
The younger lad the better fballer but he just that, young. Kerry should look at putting kickouts his way if Tyrone push up forcing the kickout.
Too much talk about Ruairi, only a cub. They are just giving him game time for next year or even the year after. Same with the likes of quinn. Rome wasn't built in a day but I think we have an exciting future if this year finishes this weekend.
Quote from: Quarterbackk on June 29, 2023, 07:11:38 PM
Darragh has it - He has the xfactor. Ruairi on the other hand still has a lot to prove (which im in no doubt he will). This weekend will be a big test for him at his age. Dooher is a big fan of his wing forwards working back, tackling etc etc. Add in the Kerry factor, Gavin White, first game in croke park, Jack O Connor building pressure with his comments this week.
The canavans and the Cliffords are the reason I want to get in early to see this match. Obviously there are other great players on both teams but those boys are stars; David and Darragh especially
Kerry team named. Begley and O'Brien still held in reserve which I'm a bit surprised with.
1 Shane Ryan
2 Graham O'Sullivan
3 Jason Foley
4 Tom O'Sullivan
5 Paul Murphy
6 Tadhg Morley
7 Gavin White
8 Diarmuid O'Connor
9 Jack Barry
10 Dara Moynihan
11 Seán O'Shea
12 Adrian Spillane
13 Paudie Clifford
14 David Clifford
15 Paul Geaney
16 Shane Murphy
17 Tony Brosnan
18 Mike Breen
19 Brian Ó Beaglaoich
20 Barry Dan O'Sullivan
21 Ruairí Murphy
22 Micheál Burns
23 Stephen O'Brien
24 Donal O'Sullivan
25 Dylan Casey
26 Seán O'Brien
Quote from: sam03/05 on June 29, 2023, 06:52:21 PM
Tyrone bench looks decent to me
Cathal McShane - all star winner
Frank Burns - all star winner
Niall Devlin - u20 AI winning captain
McGleenan - U20 AI winner
Niall Sludden - All star winner / experienced player
Richard Donnelly - experienced player / lot of big game experience
Oguz - Big Athletic player / decent season to date
O'Donnell - u20 - AI winner last year / lots of pace.
Clarke - don't know much about him but he did well v Westmeath
Prob a few others as well
I don't think people are doubting their ability as footballers but to come on and have an impact if we are losing the game or if for example Darragh Canavan god forbid gets injured in the first 10 minutes.
And not to be pedantic but Frank Burns didn't win an all star. Someone mentioned earlier he could start which in wouldn't be against at all for this game to be honest.
Seeing that Kerry team, I think a tenacious Tyrone performance will be seen as respectable. Just being in the quarters is bonus territory and keeps up our great record at reaching this stage.
Up against the reigning Champs is such a hard ask in hurling or football.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 29, 2023, 11:07:13 PM
Seeing that Kerry team, I think a tenacious Tyrone performance will be seen as respectable. Just being in the quarters is bonus territory and keeps up our great record at reaching this stage.
Up against the reigning Champs is such a hard ask in hurling or football.
WUM alert!
Jack Barry, Adrian Spillane and Paul Geaney, stealing a living on that Kerry team these days.
We seen alot better Kerry teams to be honest and if Clifford weren't there, Tyrone would been going into this game as favourites.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar.
Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game. Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
[/quote]
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
Quote from: Seamus on June 30, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
Have you a source for this?
I've never seen that reported anywhere.
If it was a dead leg, why was he trying to stretch it out? It was the only thing I ever saw reported.
Anywho, point was broadly that it's overly simplistic to claim that Kerry would have won if Clifford remained on. There's lots of what ifs from the match and both teams had moments where they could have kicked on and closed the game out. Both teams made silly mistakes at times and dominated in different areas. Clifford himself made mistakes which led to two of Tyrone's goals if I remember correctly and his marker scored and was influential going forward. If Tyrone had have lost, they could have pointed to certain key moments too.
And even more generally it's laughable to claim Tyrone's all-Ireland win was anymore lucky than any other teams, especially when you look at the route they had.
Looking forward to the game on Saturday at any rate.
It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 30, 2023, 06:18:46 AM
It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people
It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).
Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.
Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.
Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?
Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 30, 2023, 01:49:46 PM
Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.
Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?
Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?
Are the semi final pairings already made?
Quote from: BennyHarp on June 30, 2023, 02:20:44 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 30, 2023, 01:49:46 PM
Big prize for the winner with the easier tie v Derry in the semi, should they get past a very improved Cork team.
It will be interesting to see how both managers approach this game tactically especially around restarts and do the play a running game.
Clifford often wins a lot of marks so you'd imagine Kerry will kick the ball a lot more or will they learn from the traps set for them the last time?
Will Tyrone push up on the Kerry kickouts?
Will Morgan go short if Kerry back off?
Are the semi final pairings already made?
No not guaranteed. Depends on who gets through.
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 30, 2023, 12:59:02 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 30, 2023, 06:18:46 AM
It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people
It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).
Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.
Jesus anyone saying that is clueless. Canavan, O'Neill, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, McGuigan are some of the best players I've ever seen. The 2005 performances alone especially from quarter final on, were unbelievable. Still think that final is up there with the best games I've seen and that's with my team losing.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on June 30, 2023, 02:41:27 PM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 30, 2023, 12:59:02 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 30, 2023, 06:18:46 AM
It got tiresome a long time ago listening to people say Tyrone were lucky in 21 or whatever. I say that as an Armagh man. Dunno how tiresome it must be for Tyrone people
It is very tiresome. Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo had been the teams consistently reaching semis and finals. They beat two of those in 2021 along with Monaghan and Donegal who were no push overs either. It was also evident that Dublin were falling back (finally).
Same with the accusations that Tyrone don't / didn't play good football in their pomp. How can you argue that a team with Peter Canavan, Stephen O'Neill and Owen Mulligan as their full forward line didn't play good football, never mind the other great footballers. I've never seen another player kick the kind of scores O'Neill was consistently putting over the bar for fun in 05. There was some overly defensive at times in the latter Harte years, but they weren't anymore guilty than most teams, with some mitigation for what appeared less gifted panels and there was a great improvement on that front from 2019 onwards, especially 2021.
Jesus anyone saying that is clueless. Canavan, O'Neill, Jordan, Dooher, Kavanagh, McGuigan are some of the best players I've ever seen. The 2005 performances alone especially from quarter final on, were unbelievable. Still think that final is up there with the best games I've seen and that's with my team losing.
I think Kerry Galway last year was another cracker, Kerry Dublin 2011, the Mayo Dublin games and the Kerry Dublin all Ireland draw. Tomorrow can be a lot of things and has the potential to take on a walk of its own and be amazing stuff altogether, as a Tyrone man I love playing the best and Kerry are the best.
Quote from: Seamus on June 30, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.[/quote]
Thats an amazing insight into your thought patterns but Im not letting you create that narrative in this case. Do you believe Morgan shouldnt have went for the ball and let what was a wayward pass be won uncontested by Clifford. Even if that was the case why was he even stretching out cramp on the sideline by the way...
Yeah depends on who gets through but because there are a lot of ties that can't happen again then there are very likely semi final matchings.
If Derry and Tyrone win then they have to meet each other in the semi as neither can meet Armagh or Monaghan so the winners of Dubs v Mayo have to meet them.
If Derry, Kerry and the Dubs win then Derry could meet either Kerry or Dubs but not Armagh/Monaghan and this is why Derry fans will be supporting Tyrone on Saturday. ;D
If Derry, Kerry and Mayo win then Kerry can't play Mayo again and Derry can't play Armagh/Monaghan so it will have to be Derry v Mayo/Kerry and Mayo/Kerry v Armagh/Monaghan.
So it looks like Derry will probably be meeting Kerry or the Dubs/Mayo in the semi final.
Sorry Cork fans but if ye get through then ye can't meet Kerry or Mayo.
8)The support from the Derry ones is greatly appreciated... We would hope to return the compliment some day...
Don't hold your breath, at this stage it not matter who we play. Does the ulster championship come into to it, previous teams played. Still think you be looking at Kerry, Armagh, Derry, Not sure about Dublin/Mayo. Dublin always beating them outside of 2yrs ago.
Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 06:14:21 PM
Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.
They aren't good enough to add another Sam this year. You need around 25% extra to win the second year.
Tipperary and Tyrone struggle with this all the time as well.
Quote from: rrhf on June 30, 2023, 03:47:54 PM
8)The support from the Derry ones is greatly appreciated... We would hope to return the compliment some day...
Good luck to Tír Eoghain tomorrow. Have the talent to do the job.
It'll be good to have the support of Armagh and Monaghan ones as they filter into the ground during the match. 50 odd thousand supporters cheering for Tyrone.
Quote from: square_ball on June 30, 2023, 07:04:55 PM
It'll be good to have the support of Armagh and Monaghan ones as they filter into the ground during the match. 50 odd thousand supporters cheering for Tyrone.
Their hatred of Tyrone overrides their hatred of Kerry.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 30, 2023, 03:43:31 PM
Yeah depends on who gets through but because there are a lot of ties that can't happen again then there are very likely semi final matchings.
If Derry and Tyrone win then they have to meet each other in the semi as neither can meet Armagh or Monaghan so the winners of Dubs v Mayo have to meet them.
If Derry, Kerry and the Dubs win then Derry could meet either Kerry or Dubs but not Armagh/Monaghan and this is why Derry fans will be supporting Tyrone on Saturday. ;D
If Derry, Kerry and Mayo win then Kerry can't play Mayo again and Derry can't play Armagh/Monaghan so it will have to be Derry v Mayo/Kerry and Mayo/Kerry v Armagh/Monaghan.
So it looks like Derry will probably be meeting Kerry or the Dubs/Mayo in the semi final.
Sorry Cork fans but if ye get through then ye can't meet Kerry or Mayo.
If Derry win, then the semi-final:
Kerry/Tyrone v Mayo/Dublin
can't happen regardless of who gets through.
Quote from: clarshack on June 30, 2023, 07:43:32 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 30, 2023, 07:04:55 PM
It'll be good to have the support of Armagh and Monaghan ones as they filter into the ground during the match. 50 odd thousand supporters cheering for Tyrone.
Their hatred of Tyrone overrides their hatred of Kerry.
Anyone on here from Kerry - would the sight of a Tyrone jersey rev up the Kerry players more these days than a Cork or Dublin jersey?
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 06:14:21 PM
Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.
Any suggestions how?
Red card?
Quote from: square_ball on June 30, 2023, 07:04:55 PM
It'll be good to have the support of Armagh and Monaghan ones as they filter into the ground during the match. 50 odd thousand supporters cheering for Tyrone.
I'll be there for the Tyrone game cheering you on. Question is will Tyrone cheer on Armagh, Monaghan or neither?
Quote from: tonto1888 on June 30, 2023, 10:26:05 PM
Quote from: square_ball on June 30, 2023, 07:04:55 PM
It'll be good to have the support of Armagh and Monaghan ones as they filter into the ground during the match. 50 odd thousand supporters cheering for Tyrone.
I'll be there for the Tyrone game cheering you on. Question is will Tyrone cheer on Armagh, Monaghan or neither?
I've relations in Armagh so will give them my support.
All Ireland semi finals back in the day were always great with the minor game on before getting support from the county from the same province.
Quote from: Fuzzman on June 30, 2023, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on June 30, 2023, 06:14:21 PM
Take Clifford out of that Kerry side and they're ordinary. Very ordinary.
Any suggestions how?
Red card?
Paudie fcukin Hampsey
Safe travels to all.
Any lower Hogan tickets floating about the croke park hotel? Looking 2
15 mins played Kerry 0-4 Tyrone 0-2. Four difference forward scorers for Kerry so far.
No one standing in the Cusack corner of Hill 16. Are they deliberately keeping it empty
Kerry scores coming easier
30 mins played, cat mouse type of contest thus far. Kerry 0-7 Tyrone 0-6
Tyrone keeping it tight but you feel Kerry have another gear to go yet. Clifford's had a few bad misses.
Two very soft frees for Kerry.
3 in it now
Quote from: mrdeeds on July 01, 2023, 04:19:58 PM
Two very soft frees for Kerry.
Referee definitely very quick on the whistle for both teams so far.
Cawley telling PClifford to put the gumshield in, he points to Harte who doesn't have one either. Nothing done. Numerous others with no gum shield in. Must be frustrating for the one who gets picked for something like that.
Half time and deserved lead for Kerry 0-9 to 0-6. Best defensive performance from them since last year.
Quote from: Estimator on July 01, 2023, 04:22:42 PM
Cawley telling PClifford to put the gumshield in, he points to Harte who doesn't have one either. Nothing done. Numerous others with no gum shield in. Must be frustrating for the one who gets picked for something like that.
Didn't book him so why complain.
Did someone say Kerry are an average team without Clifford? He's barely touched it yet they're 3 in front, better set up defensively is the difference thus far.
Kerry just a bit slicker moving the ball up the pitch
Kerry defenders giving Tyrone forwards plenty of it. Matching them physically. Clifford and O'Shea should get more space in this second half and they'll have 6+ to spare in the end.
Quote from: Estimator on July 01, 2023, 04:22:42 PM
Cawley telling PClifford to put the gumshield in, he points to Harte who doesn't have one either. Nothing done. Numerous others with no gum shield in. Must be frustrating for the one who gets picked for something like that.
Maybe ref pulled him because he was mouthing off to ref, it fairly shuts them up with the gum shield in
Kerry slightly better at the minute however would say Tyrone are finding it harder to get frees than kerry
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 01, 2023, 04:25:33 PM
Kerry just a bit slicker moving the ball up the pitch
I don't think it's that. It's Kerry defensive set up. The Canavans scored 3 very good points, they would have several more if Kerry were set up like Tyrone at the back.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 01, 2023, 04:21:18 PM
Paudie Clifford is a knob.
Yep, a fckin dose I'd say. A pure mouth, will get himself into trouble if the rest of them can't keep him under control
Ye had of offered me that at ht i would have taken it. Tyrone well in this
Strong wind, in Tyrone's favour now
Quote from: blasmere on July 01, 2023, 04:25:03 PM
Did someone say Kerry are an average team without Clifford? He's barely touched it yet they're 3 in front, better set up defensively is the difference thus far.
Lazy analysis whereby someone is probably too influenced by the remarks of Joe Brolly. Key to Kerry winning the All Ireland last year was team play,workrate and defensive improvement. In that 1st half Kerry have produced their defensive performance this year.
Debatable frees given to both sides not a surprise with Brendan Cawley in charge.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2023, 04:32:42 PM
Strong wind, in Tyrone's favour now
Isn't the wind swirling rather than directly favouring one end
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2023, 04:32:42 PM
Strong wind, in Tyrone's favour now
More of cross wind in that first half.
Kerry to win by 4-6. Cawley will need to watch kerry off the ball antics.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 01, 2023, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: blasmere on July 01, 2023, 04:25:03 PM
Did someone say Kerry are an average team without Clifford? He's barely touched it yet they're 3 in front, better set up defensively is the difference thus far.
Lazy analysis whereby someone is probably too influenced by the remarks of Joe Brolly. Key to Kerry winning the All Ireland last year was team play,workrate and defensive improvement. In that 1st half Kerry have produced their defensive performance this year.
Debatable frees given to both sides not a surprise with Brendan Cawley in charge.
Wouldn't say debatable, just soft. And the game hasn't turned nasty until they all decided to leave pitch at the same time and get personal in the tunnel.
As for watching off the ball, he's already yellow carded 2 players for off the ball stuff, so we'll done on that shite
This ref is an eejit
Jack Barry v lucky. Think if he wasn't booked, he would've been there.
Quote from: Saffrongael on July 01, 2023, 04:42:43 PM
This ref is an eejit
So easy to just delay the whistle there a second or 2 and then bring it back. Madness
Ref having a nightmare. Kerry getting far too many handy frees
Quote from: Estimator on July 01, 2023, 04:44:00 PM
Jack Barry v lucky. Think if he wasn't booked, he would've been there.
Defo a note, I'd say he's gone next challenge, so either take him off or run risk of getting a second yellow
Tyrone midfield, which should be one of their advantages, turning it over very sloppily a good few times.
Jason Foley,Tom O'Sullivan and Diarmuid O'Connor among the stand out players for Kerry today. 44 mins played Kerry 0-13 Tyrone 0-6.
Tyrone decision making in general is absolutely brutal. Giving lads hospital passes and constantly asking them to go and win 50/50s.
Quote from: gallsman on July 01, 2023, 04:48:31 PM
Tyrone midfield, which should be one of their advantages, turning it over very sloppily a good few times.
Kennedy last time, this time Kilpatrick. Must be 5/6 times between them trying to just charge through.
A lot to ask of McShane having ignored him all year.
Will Tyrone score this half?
Turnover after turnover.
Kerry doing to Tyrone what Tyrone did to Donegal last week.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2023, 04:54:12 PM
Will Tyrone score this half?
They've one point since young Canavans brilliant dummy and score to make it 05-05.
Quote from: gallsman on July 01, 2023, 04:48:31 PM
Tyrone midfield, which should be one of their advantages, turning it over very sloppily a good few times.
Being by passed ...not in it at all
Would love an apple turnover
Goal for Kerry. 1-14 to 0-6
Lovely goal
Couldn't really understand how Tyrone were being talked about in this conversation ... they've a long way to go to get back!!
Kerry not taking Tyrone on in midfield is the winning of it and I don't know why Tyrone have been giving the ball up short all day MF is their strongest line.
they win one match against donegal and media and people said they were back
Thats the last of the poor teams out it should be a good competition from here on
Tyrone have been awful. Kerry concede the kick out drop everyone back and just wait for Tyrone to mess up their attack. It's like a team playing against a defensive set up 10 years ago.
2nd Kerry goal, Sean O'Shea. The fat lady is singing.
Clifford😲
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on July 01, 2023, 05:07:09 PM
Thats the last of the poor teams out it should be a good competition from here on
They are as bad as Laois last week ;D
Kerry utterly dominant and they've barely had to break a sweat.
Tyrone have been absolutely dreadful.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 01, 2023, 05:07:44 PM
2nd Kerry goal, Sean O'Shea. The fat lady is singing.
She sang long, long before that goal.
Will the Tyrone ones stay on?
Statement performance from the reigning champions. I can only see Dublin living with them for the seventy minutes.
Kerry excellent here but Tyrone awful. Game not lost today so much as over the past two years and the lack of direction in the team. It was always a massive ask to hope that a team who have been so patchy could suddenly step up to the extent required. Possible, but unlikely. Dooher and Logan did a fantastic job in 2021 to come in and take Mickey's model and add that little bit of freedom which put the team up a level. Unfortunately Tyrone have been a rudderless ship since and that has to go on the management. They more than earned their place in Tyrone GAA history but with the term up it's time for a change, the panel is capable of much more.
All the credit to Kerry on the day. Defence in particular was excellent and built the foundation for all the good stuff further up. There will be tougher tasks ahead but this level of performance will be extremely hard to beat.
Tyrone playing here like Down when they all kind of knew were on their way out.
Good.
Quote from: screenexile on July 01, 2023, 04:59:58 PM
Couldn't really understand how Tyrone were being talked about in this conversation ... they've a long way to go to get back!!
Kerry not taking Tyrone on in midfield is the winning of it and I don't know why Tyrone have been giving the ball up short all day MF is their strongest line.
It's a pity John Heslin missed that free. Westmeath might've made a game out of this.
No need for new rules.
Kerry was outstanding in defence today, it's that type of defending that won them the All Ireland last year and from a number of turnovers in defence they scored a lot of their scores from. FT Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12. Worst defeat and performance in the championship for Tyrone since the AI semi final in 2017 when they lost 2-17 to 0-11 to Dublin?
Lot of call to be red carding lads there.
As close to perfection as you're gonna see from Kerry today, everything going right for them. Will be huge favourites for semi
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:24:04 PM
Lot of call to be red carding lads there.
As close to perfection as you're gonna see from Kerry today, everything going right for them. Will be huge favourites for semi
Did he give Clifford a straight red or yellow and then red?
Quote from: grounded on July 01, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:24:04 PM
Lot of call to be red carding lads there.
As close to perfection as you're gonna see from Kerry today, everything going right for them. Will be huge favourites for semi
Did he give Clifford a straight red or yellow and then red?
second yellow. Thought ref was poor enough, luckily it didn't matter
Mentioned it before on another thread, no idea why so many pundits/fans were raving about such an inconsistent team, and picking them as dark horses. Tyrone havnt been at the races all year. Few old hands may move on, as well as management perhaps?
Kerry were brilliant all around the pitch, as easy they got their scores, their turnovers won the game. Should be hard to stop.
That performance was probably coming from Tyrone, you can't perform like they have and expect to magically turn the tap on. In fairness the clued in Tyrone supporters on here (there are a few) seemed to know this may have been coming today
Good interview with Clifford.
It was their own fans raving, nobody else.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on July 01, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:24:04 PM
Lot of call to be red carding lads there.
As close to perfection as you're gonna see from Kerry today, everything going right for them. Will be huge favourites for semi
Did he give Clifford a straight red or yellow and then red?
second yellow. Thought ref was poor enough, luckily it didn't matter
Ref had no impact on this game as Tyrone were so poor, watching as a neutral there was nothing out of the ordinary either from his calls
Great to see the schadenfreude. Must be doing something right to have so many haters.
Disappointed in the discipline today. We'll reassess and be back next year.
Tailteann Cup contenders after that performance ;)
No excuses today. Well done Kerry.
The extra week looking like a big bonus now, think I'll plum my winnings on Armagh
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 05:36:36 PM
Great to see the schadenfreude. Must be doing something right to have so many haters.
Disappointed in the discipline today. We'll reassess and be back next year.
you's will be back unfortunately. Plenty of quality there still and plenty coming through. 2 Canavans only cubs yet and 2 serious ballers.
No fight in Tyrone at all.
Kerry head and shoulders the better side and look impressive.
Will be very hard to beat.
Mccurry was a luck boy, particularly poor from him today.
Will that be the end of this tyrone management team?
Certainly think in general they could have a few retirements now.
I wouldn't want to meet Kerry in that form though.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2023, 05:35:28 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: grounded on July 01, 2023, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 01, 2023, 05:24:04 PM
Lot of call to be red carding lads there.
As close to perfection as you're gonna see from Kerry today, everything going right for them. Will be huge favourites for semi
Did he give Clifford a straight red or yellow and then red?
second yellow. Thought ref was poor enough, luckily it didn't matter
Ref had no impact on this game as Tyrone were so poor, watching as a neutral there was nothing out of the ordinary either from his calls
I've no idea what these lads are on about.
Mccurry will likely get a retrospective ban. Kerry basically out tyroned Tyrone there with the way they played. Defensive masterclass.
No complaints. Kerry miles ahead in second half. Will be hard stopped.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 01, 2023, 05:14:20 PM
Will the Tyrone ones stay on?
I wonder who they will cheer for
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 05:36:36 PM
Great to see the schadenfreude. Must be doing something right to have so many haters.
Disappointed in the discipline today. We'll reassess and be back next year.
Who's "hating" ffs. Most people just calling a spade a spade.
Even though it was tight in the first half, it still felt off from a Tyrone point of view. Tyrone were too passive in defending and attacking. When a Tyrone team is going well it is full of energy and intensity. They kept Clifford quiet to start with but their whole team got confidence from being able to shut out a ponderous and slow Tyrone attack and other men breaking forward for Kerry. Once Kerry got to 5 points, it felt over. Barry was very lucky to not see the line at the start of the second half as there were much softer yellows given in the match, though I still think Kerry would have won.
I believe there are very much still the players there in Tyrone and more coming through, but there definitely needs to be a shake up which may need to start with the management. They need to take this loss and use it to drive them next year and beyond.
Tyrone had no answers today in terms of slick football being played against them. Kerry better all over the pitch in a powerpacked performance. Some of the Kerry passing & movement was a joy to watch and could have had another 3 goals easily.
Tyrone have been playing a long time as a team without a definitive style or system of play.They've serious talent available to them and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind Mickey Harte would have that side uber organised and in the top 3 for a decade.
Will Tyrone be looking Malachy O' R in??
Quote from: bennydorano on July 01, 2023, 06:43:53 PM
Tyrone have been playing a long time as a team without a definitive style or system of play.They've serious talent available to them and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind Mickey Harte would have that side uber organised and in the top 3 for a decade.
You can have the best system in the world but if you don't have the players willing to really put it in its a waste of time. Tyrone have had no grit for the last 2 years. As a couple have mentioned already, you just can't switch it on
Enjoyed Jack O'Connor doing his best Fr Austin impression after the game... "I'm absolutely delighted...."
said earlier in the week it was a game too soon for tyrone. they looked knackered. not remotely at the pitch.
They's always one dickhead floating around with a comment after a poor day @ office. We'll move on and learn from this this, unfortunately clowns like you and and your team never do.
Quote from: WhoDat on July 01, 2023, 06:53:15 PM
said earlier in the week it was a game too soon for tyrone. they looked knackered. not remotely at the pitch.
They were simply hammered all over the pitch by a better team on the day.
Quote from: kickingmule on July 01, 2023, 07:05:07 PM
They's always one dickhead floating around with a comment after a poor day @ office. We'll move on and learn from this this, unfortunately clowns like you and and your team never do.
Have you any more clichés in the locker?
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
Fair play Kerry. Miles ahead. Double looks likely.
Tyrone, poor in so many ways. New management required and hopefully a new drive. Our play out of defence today was painful compared to Kerry's.
Congrats Kerry.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Kerry clearly still having PTSD from 2021. I think it was a big driver behind their performance today.
Kerry defence won their battles in the first ten minutes, it was ominous for Tyrone at that stage.
And Kerry midfield won their battle.
Top performance by the Kingdom really.
Yep, that Tattyreagh man had the Kerry defence so well drilled, however, just too good for us today, and well done Kerry.
Hard to be positive after that. The complete lack of scoring threat when darragh is shackled, our inability to kick the ball, our inability to shoot. Our selections at 5, 6. If roaring in players faces is what we think will get it done in Croke Park we may forget it.
Unfortunately we cannot say Tyrone rip, only an idiot would claim that. Tyrone were handed an abject lesson today, to which they will respond to, all in good time.
Quote from: Tubberman on July 01, 2023, 07:09:12 PM
Quote from: kickingmule on July 01, 2023, 07:05:07 PM
They's always one dickhead floating around with a comment after a poor day @ office. We'll move on and learn from this this, unfortunately clowns like you and and your team never do.
Have you any more clichés in the locker?
They're obliviously lost on you.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 01, 2023, 08:27:38 PM
Yep, that Tattyreagh man had the Kerry defence so well drilled, however, just too good for us today, and well done Kerry.
Tattyreagh??
Quote from: Quarterbackk on July 01, 2023, 08:59:26 PM
Hard to be positive after that. The complete lack of scoring threat when darragh is shackled, our inability to kick the ball, our inability to shoot. Our selections at 5, 6. If roaring in players faces is what we think will get it done in Croke Park we may forget it.
Correct 5 & 6 offer absolutely nothing.
Quote from: reddgnhand on July 01, 2023, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 01, 2023, 08:27:38 PM
Yep, that Tattyreagh man had the Kerry defence so well drilled, however, just too good for us today, and well done Kerry.
Tattyreagh??
Paddy Tally, yes, long past time he returned to the Tír Eoghain fold, IMHO.
Where long Covid does sound like a cliche, if u had it like myself(for a Yr) it doesn't sound remotely funny.
Could be worse, you could lost on penalties, and not accept it part of the game now. I expect to find, Derry come out the mor and, Armagh doing a sit down protest on the field from the night before
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 01, 2023, 09:53:22 PM
Quote from: reddgnhand on July 01, 2023, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 01, 2023, 08:27:38 PM
Yep, that Tattyreagh man had the Kerry defence so well drilled, however, just too good for us today, and well done Kerry.
Tattyreagh??
Paddy Tally, yes, long past time he returned to the Tír Eoghain fold, IMHO.
Galbally is he not?
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 01, 2023, 09:59:31 PM
Could be worse, you could lost on penalties, and not accept it part of the game now. I exiect to find, Derry come out the mor and, Armagh doing a sit down protest on the field from the night before
Covid didn't affect your wit. LOL
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
It's what really irks me about some Kerry people at times. They've just hammered Tyrone and are reigning All-Ireland champions along with their other dozens of titles, why is there a need to be so petty? Smaller teams who win nothing or win rarely you can understand...
Similar with claims of Tyrone being defensive over the years or being cynical. Kerry were as defensive, mouthy and as cynical as any team you will see this year. That's what good teams do generally. Tackling with intensity is not unique to Tyrone. When Kerry do it it's apparently 'Out Tyroning Tyrone' or framed as some sort of come uppance. What Tyrone did in 2003 was unique, but it's been 20 years and plenty of other tactics have been adopted.
Tyrone weren't at the pitch of the game today and Kerry put them to the sword. You can maybe point to leggyness and not having long to prepare, but it was very disappointing to see such a limp performance by Tyrone given the pedigree the team has.
When Tyrone are on form there is no team can bring an intensity like them hence the out tyroning Tyrone comment. Kerry brought an intensity to that game that I haven't seen from a Kerry team before.
Agreed - they are a very cynical bunch too. Media people seem to gloss over it. Dublin were like that too.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 01, 2023, 10:33:25 PM
When Tyrone are on form there is no team can bring an intensity like them hence the out tyroning Tyrone comment. Kerry brought an intensity to that game that I haven't seen from a Kerry team before.
Agreed - they are a very cynical bunch too. Media people seem to gloss over it. Dublin were like that too.
Just lazy journalism!
tyrone player needs a 5 match ban
Watched the first half, Tyrone played decent enough, thus must be a horror show starting the 2nd Half.
I just get the feeling Kerry have raised themselves too much for big bad tyrone and will be caught at a lower intensity.
Quote from: Eire90 on July 01, 2023, 10:52:05 PM
tyrone player needs a 5 match ban
Which infraction carries a 5 match ban?
Quote from: JoG2 on July 01, 2023, 11:06:47 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 01, 2023, 10:52:05 PM
tyrone player needs a 5 match ban
Which infraction carries a 5 match ban?
I find it's usually the same one that people play down when it's one of their own county/club players involved.
Kerry were fitter, faster, stronger and simply better than Tyrone. Very disappointing from a Tyrone perspective. A few players had their moments but there has to be a serious rebuild now heading into 2024.
Take, Canavan and, McCurry out of the team, what else have they, Tyrone been very poor this Yr, with only a hard fought game in Salthill, a man down, their only decent performance. It's still the same team that couldn't put Westmeath away 2 wks back.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2023, 01:29:47 AM
Take, Canavan and, McCurry out of the team, what else have they, Tyrone been very poor this Yr, with only a hard fought game on Salthill a man down their only decent performance. It's still the same team that couldn't put Westmeath away 2 wks back.
Morgan, Mattie Donnelly, Hampsey and McKernan have performed to a standard. Midfielders too have generally competed.
Having little scoring threat from half back and half forward line is criminal hence why r canavan had to be drafted in. Aaron Kernan picked out Michael Oneill in the first half following a run forward with a ball and how it wasn't simply upto standard. Gone are the driving runs of Harte McCann sludden and mcgeary with each of them able to kick their own score.
Donnelly and Harte are done, have slowed up too much.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2023, 02:00:54 AM
Donnelly and Harte are done, have slowed up too much.
Donnelly looked done today. Which was actually sad to see
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals since 2013. That team had a ceiling in the form of the Dublin 6 in a row team. In the normal course of events they might have been expected to win an all Ireland in 2016 or 2017. As it happened they were like a small farmer who got married very late in life. 2021 was towards the end of the life of the team. Dooher said at the time that you have to seize the moment. They will have to build a new team around the Canavans.
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Kerry are bad losers but even worse winners. Marc O'Shea laughing and joking about covid was extremely poor from him.
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 06:23:27 AM
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals since 2013. That team had a ceiling in the form of the Dublin 6 in a row team. In the normal course of events they might have been expected to win an all Ireland in 2016 or 2017. As it happened they were like a small farmer who got married very late in life. 2021 was towards the end of the life of the team. Dooher said at the time that you have to seize the moment. They will have to build a new team around the Canavans.
That's a pretty good summary. A plethora jumped ship after the 2021 AI. They knew they had sneaked in and stole an AI and that there was not going to be any more rewards. They were also previously part of a Mickey Harte system, that did not look like to be fun to play especially for forwards. Mickey stayed too long and smothered the team with his system.
Quote from: clarshack on July 02, 2023, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Kerry are bad losers but even worse winners. Marc O'Shea laughing and joking about covid was extremely poor from him.
Bit like Tomas O Se's words in the Indo this week, real lack of class and just shows how much previous defeats to Tyrone got to those lads. You'd hope somebody would have a word with them, it's not a good look.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 02, 2023, 10:57:15 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 02, 2023, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Kerry are bad losers but even worse winners. Marc O'Shea laughing and joking about covid was extremely poor from him.
Bit like Tomas O Se's words in the Indo this week, real lack of class and just shows how much previous defeats to Tyrone got to those lads. You'd hope somebody would have a word with them, it's not a good look.
One thing was clear yesterday. Kerry hate Tyrone a lot more than tyrone even think about Kerry
I see the revisionism is in full flight.
Tyrone couldn't get over the all conquering Dublin, but I'd argue that the failure to compete was down to the limitations of Harte or rather the limitations of his approach. We had good players and forwards, but he wouldn't put the trust on them. McCurry is a prime example, he wouldn't have stayed on if Harte was there in 2021, but was one of the best in 2021. That said Tyrone offered something in 2019 with McShane and Donnelly inside and should have beat a young Kerry in that year's semi. There was something lacking which was a consistent theme.
The majority of the players who left after 2021 were all fringe players who had been around for years and were at the age where they didn't want to devote so much time. There were no starters who left. I think the pandemic encouraged many a player to consider their priorities. Tyrone don't allow players to play for the clubs while they are in the panel. Ronan O'Neill wrote well about his struggles during this time.
Mattie Donnelly has been putting in massive performances all season, so to say he's done is lazy. He just had a newborn this week which might be a reason he was so subdued and the same reason we might not see him again. He, like the whole of the Tyrone team, was outmatched yesterday. P. Harte does look to have slowed up and the lack of scoring power in the half backs will have to be addressed, but there's some good players like Niall Devlin who should come good in a year or two.
There's a good smattering of ages on the Tyrone squad and players available, so there's no excuse for a performance like yesterday. Most of the players should be at their peak. Whatever happens there needs to be a serious rethink.
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2023, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
Yikes
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 02, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 06:23:27 AM
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals since 2013. That team had a ceiling in the form of the Dublin 6 in a row team. In the normal course of events they might have been expected to win an all Ireland in 2016 or 2017. As it happened they were like a small farmer who got married very late in life. 2021 was towards the end of the life of the team. Dooher said at the time that you have to seize the moment. They will have to build a new team around the Canavans.
That's a pretty good summary. A plethora jumped ship after the 2021 AI. They knew they had sneaked in and stole an AI and that there was not going to be any more rewards. They were also previously part of a Mickey Harte system, that did not look like to be fun to play especially for forwards. Mickey stayed too long and smothered the team with his system.
Christ of almighty. This shite again. Not only was it a lucky All Ireland but now they've sneaked in and stole one.
Quote from: square_ball on July 02, 2023, 11:08:23 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 02, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 06:23:27 AM
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals since 2013. That team had a ceiling in the form of the Dublin 6 in a row team. In the normal course of events they might have been expected to win an all Ireland in 2016 or 2017. As it happened they were like a small farmer who got married very late in life. 2021 was towards the end of the life of the team. Dooher said at the time that you have to seize the moment. They will have to build a new team around the Canavans.
That's a pretty good summary. A plethora jumped ship after the 2021 AI. They knew they had sneaked in and stole an AI and that there was not going to be any more rewards. They were also previously part of a Mickey Harte system, that did not look like to be fun to play especially for forwards. Mickey stayed too long and smothered the team with his system.
Christ of almighty. This shite again. Not only was it a lucky All Ireland but now they've sneaked in and stole one.
Does this mean Tyrone are still only on 3 All Ireland wins? ;)
Quote from: Keane on July 02, 2023, 11:07:59 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on June 27, 2023, 06:25:15 AM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on June 27, 2023, 12:04:40 AM
Controversial opinion. Seanie Shea (as they like to call him) is hugely over rated (from open play). Tyrone will shut him down fairly easily. As for the other lad....where do ye even start!
Not at all controversial. He wouldn't get on the Tyrone team.
Yikes
They didn't age well
Quote from: HokeyPokey on July 02, 2023, 11:05:30 AM
I see the revisionism is in full flight.
Tyrone couldn't get over the all conquering Dublin, but I'd argue that the failure to compete was down to the limitations of Harte or rather the limitations of his approach. We had good players and forwards, but he wouldn't put the trust on them. McCurry is a prime example, he wouldn't have stayed on if Harte was there in 2021, but was one of the best in 2021. That said Tyrone offered something in 2019 with McShane and Donnelly inside and should have beat a young Kerry in that year's semi. There was something lacking which was a consistent theme.
The majority of the players who left after 2021 were all fringe players who had been around for years and were at the age where they didn't want to devote so much time. There were no starters who left. I think the pandemic encouraged many a player to consider their priorities. Tyrone don't allow players to play for the clubs while they are in the panel. Ronan O'Neill wrote well about his struggles during this time.
Mattie Donnelly has been putting in massive performances all season, so to say he's done is lazy. He just had a newborn this week which might be a reason he was so subdued and the same reason we might not see him again. He, like the whole of the Tyrone team, was outmatched yesterday. P. Harte does look to have slowed up and the lack of scoring power in the half backs will have to be addressed, but there's some good players like Niall Devlin who should come good in a year or two.
There's a good smattering of ages on the Tyrone squad and players available, so there's no excuse for a performance like yesterday. Most of the players should be at their peak. Whatever happens there needs to be a serious rethink.
If you take another rising team like Derry who are probably less talented than peak Tyrone- if they lost say 3 semi finals most players would probably walk away.
Tyrone had great resilience but the system didn't care about them as long as Dublin were magnificent. The team would have won more all Irelands but everything was stacked against them. Kerry came later so they still have energy. In terms of where Tyrone are at are they look like Meath 2002 or 3.
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 11:28:56 AM
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Well right back at you, yesterday was Kerrys first win over Tyrone in 5 attempts, with Tyrone winning the last 4. It was overdue.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 11:28:56 AM
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Well right back at you, yesterday was Kerrys first win over Tyrone in 5 attempts, with Tyrone winning the last 4. It was overdue.
The league, really?
(https://images.tedium.co/2017/06/tedium060617.gif)
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 11:28:56 AM
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Well right back at you, yesterday was Kerrys first win over Tyrone in 5 attempts, with Tyrone winning the last 4. It was overdue.
The league, really?
(https://images.tedium.co/2017/06/tedium060617.gif)
Yes, really. The League standings are a good indicator for championship football. When was the last time a division 2/3/4 team won the all ireland? Cork 2010 maybe? When was the last before that?
You maybe just tune in from May onwards?
gaa is full of cliché merchants its a load of sh1te
The biggest cliche at the minute seems to be that Tyrone won/stole/lucked an All Ireland in 2021.
It was there to be won. They beat 2 of the top 3 teams en route and every other team had the same chance to win it at the start of the year, but didn't.
They deserved thier win. Pure and simple.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 11:28:56 AM
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Well right back at you, yesterday was Kerrys first win over Tyrone in 5 attempts, with Tyrone winning the last 4. It was overdue.
The league, really?
(https://images.tedium.co/2017/06/tedium060617.gif)
Yes, really. The League standings are a good indicator for championship football. When was the last time a division 2/3/4 team won the all ireland? Cork 2010 maybe? When was the last before that?
You maybe just tune in from May onwards?
If Dublin beat Mayo, none of the top 4 of Div 1 will have made the last 4 of the Championship.
Good indicator me hole.
Ask any Kerry or Tyrone player or supporter if they played each other in the league 5 times and the C'ship (knockout) once, which they'd prefer, 5 league victories and a loss in the C'ship or vice-versa and virtually everyone would pick the one C'ship win.
Are Tyrone's last 4 league victories really worth bragging about after yesterday?
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 02, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 02, 2023, 06:23:27 AM
Tyrone were in 5 semi finals since 2013. That team had a ceiling in the form of the Dublin 6 in a row team. In the normal course of events they might have been expected to win an all Ireland in 2016 or 2017. As it happened they were like a small farmer who got married very late in life. 2021 was towards the end of the life of the team. Dooher said at the time that you have to seize the moment. They will have to build a new team around the Canavans.
That's a pretty good summary. A plethora jumped ship after the 2021 AI. They knew they had sneaked in and stole an AI and that there was not going to be any more rewards. They were also previously part of a Mickey Harte system, that did not look like to be fun to play especially for forwards. Mickey stayed too long and smothered the team with his system.
Well go out and win one if it's that easy.
Tyrone were extremely disappointing.
Quote from: tonto1888 on July 02, 2023, 11:04:50 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 02, 2023, 10:57:15 AM
Quote from: clarshack on July 02, 2023, 10:36:30 AM
Quote from: Whishtup on July 01, 2023, 08:02:51 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 01, 2023, 07:40:54 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
Hilarious. Marc O Se made a similar tasteless joke live on air after the match. Maybe it's not as funny to the Tyrone players who suffered from it in 2021. Or the millions around the world who died.
That was particularly hateful. The other pundits were embarrassed for him.
Kerry are bad losers but even worse winners. Marc O'Shea laughing and joking about covid was extremely poor from him.
Bit like Tomas O Se's words in the Indo this week, real lack of class and just shows how much previous defeats to Tyrone got to those lads. You'd hope somebody would have a word with them, it's not a good look.
One thing was clear yesterday. Kerry hate Tyrone a lot more than tyrone even think about Kerry
Seen a former All-Ireland final referee calling Tyrone scum several times online yesterday.
Quote from: WT4E on July 01, 2023, 10:58:02 PM
I just get the feeling Kerry have raised themselves too much for big bad tyrone and will be caught at a lower intensity.
In 2012 we saw Paul Galvin blubbering like a baby on TV after they had hammered Tyrone in Killarney and then Donegal knocked them out shortly afterwards.
I'd be surprised if they have the same intensity in the Derry game and if that's the case then Derry have a real chance.
Quote from: clarshack on July 03, 2023, 09:25:27 AM
Quote from: WT4E on July 01, 2023, 10:58:02 PM
I just get the feeling Kerry have raised themselves too much for big bad tyrone and will be caught at a lower intensity.
In 2012 we saw Paul Galvin blubbering like a baby on TV after they had hammered Tyrone in Killarney and then Donegal knocked them out shortly afterwards.
I'd be surprised if they have the same intensity in the Derry game and if that's the case then Derry have a real chance.
I don't think Kerry broke sweat in that game at the weekend, I'd say they'll have plenty of intensity as will Derry, its a semifinal they'll be at it hammer and tongs from the get go
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 01:13:02 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 12:00:52 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 02, 2023, 11:31:45 AM
Quote from: blanketattack on July 02, 2023, 11:28:56 AM
I wonder if Tyrone meet Kerry again in next year's Championship will we hear the same BS rhetoric we always hear before Kerry-Tyrone games? e.g. "Tyrone have a hoodoo over Kerry", "Tyrone always raise their game against Kerry".
Even though Kerry have won 4 of their last 5 C'ship games against Tyrone, with margin of victories of 12 pts, 10 pts, 4 pts and 3 pts while Tyrone's win was a 1 pt win AET when Kerry's MOTM had gone off injured.
A lot of journalists and content providers are stealing a living with the same clichés before every game.
Well right back at you, yesterday was Kerrys first win over Tyrone in 5 attempts, with Tyrone winning the last 4. It was overdue.
The league, really?
(https://images.tedium.co/2017/06/tedium060617.gif)
Yes, really. The League standings are a good indicator for championship football. When was the last time a division 2/3/4 team won the all ireland? Cork 2010 maybe? When was the last before that?
You maybe just tune in from May onwards?
Cork won Division 1 in 2010. And again in 2011 and 2012.
Personally feel that as good as Kerry were, Tyrone were nowhere near a decent performance.
Too many slower players relying on moments of brilliance from individuals.
Bott canavans look like they will be class, but as tyrone found out in the 90s you win nothing with 1 star player.
I can't see this particular group of players scaling the heights because they are just too long in the tooth and don't have the quality any more.
The minor team from last year and the emergence potentially of Donaghmore as senior club contenders is probably where the next group of players will come from.
Remains to be seen if they'll be good enough.
Whilst kerry looked awesome, they'll have a different prospect against derry.
Will flair beat the system? On paper you'd go for Kerry.
Quote from: tbrick18 on July 03, 2023, 11:59:41 AM
Personally feel that as good as Kerry were, Tyrone were nowhere near a decent performance.
Too many slower players relying on moments of brilliance from individuals.
Bott canavans look like they will be class, but as tyrone found out in the 90s you win nothing with 1 star player.
I can't see this particular group of players scaling the heights because they are just too long in the tooth and don't have the quality any more.
The minor team from last year and the emergence potentially of Donaghmore as senior club contenders is probably where the next group of players will come from.
Remains to be seen if they'll be good enough.
Whilst kerry looked awesome, they'll have a different prospect against derry.
Will flair beat the system? On paper you'd go for Kerry.
Lets frame this one.
Very disappointed in the performance on Saturday.
We always seem to have those flat performances in us and we seem to be waiting for someone else to be a game changer (particulary around the middle 8).
Myler did as good as anyone has on P Clifford.
Surprised R Canavan was hooked.
McShane still looks off the pace.
Overall Kerry were much the superior team but we let them play - I would have loved to have seen how they reacted if we had a right cut at them.
They matched fire with fire and that seemed to put us off.
CP was full of pissheads on Saturday - one county seemed to have the majority of them but then again that may have been because they had the majority of supporters there. No county can claim to be angels here mind you.
It is a major problem for cship games - stewards need to start refusing permission
Ruairi Canavan came off with an injury according to Dooher.
Quote from: Taylor on July 03, 2023, 12:28:52 PM
Very disappointed in the performance on Saturday.
We always seem to have those flat performances in us and we seem to be waiting for someone else to be a game changer (particulary around the middle 8).
Myler did as good as anyone has on P Clifford.
Surprised R Canavan was hooked.
McShane still looks off the pace.
Overall Kerry were much the superior team but we let them play - I would have loved to have seen how they reacted if we had a right cut at them.
They matched fire with fire and that seemed to put us off.
CP was full of pissheads on Saturday - one county seemed to have the majority of them but then again that may have been because they had the majority of supporters there. No county can claim to be angels here mind you.
It is a major problem for cship games - stewards need to start refusing permission
Walking out of the ground before final whistle in Tyrone Match was a breath taking site. Monaghan supporters coming in very happy and sober whilst Armagh where majority legless! I take it this i the county you refer to. And yes they have to take a hold on this.
Quote from: Taylor on July 03, 2023, 12:28:52 PM
Very disappointed in the performance on Saturday.
We always seem to have those flat performances in us and we seem to be waiting for someone else to be a game changer (particulary around the middle 8).
Myler did as good as anyone has on P Clifford.
Surprised R Canavan was hooked.
McShane still looks off the pace.
Overall Kerry were much the superior team but we let them play - I would have loved to have seen how they reacted if we had a right cut at them.
They matched fire with fire and that seemed to put us off.
CP was full of pissheads on Saturday - one county seemed to have the majority of them but then again that may have been because they had the majority of supporters there. No county can claim to be angels here mind you.
It is a major problem for cship games - stewards need to start refusing permission
Conor Meyler was continually fouled , even when the match was long over - cynical behaviour .
Quote from: Taylor on July 03, 2023, 12:28:52 PM
Very disappointed in the performance on Saturday.
We always seem to have those flat performances in us and we seem to be waiting for someone else to be a game changer (particulary around the middle 8).
Myler did as good as anyone has on P Clifford.
Surprised R Canavan was hooked.
McShane still looks off the pace.
Overall Kerry were much the superior team but we let them play - I would have loved to have seen how they reacted if we had a right cut at them.
They matched fire with fire and that seemed to put us off.
CP was full of pissheads on Saturday - one county seemed to have the majority of them but then again that may have been because they had the majority of supporters there. No county can claim to be angels here mind you.
It is a major problem for cship games - stewards need to start refusing permission
Not half as drunk as you writing this post lol
I headed to Croke Park on Saturday knowing it was going to be a tough ask but expecting to make Kerry work hard for it if they were to win. Such a shocking performance from the boys, sitting in the stand it came across as a real lack of fight and desire. I know Logan & Dooher are getting the brunt of the blame but I think there's a real softness and attitude problem with some of those players that need weeded out.
As others have mentioned, alot of Armagh supporters made a complete show of themselves. The bus to Drumcondra was full of idiots half-tanked dishing out abuse to anyone wearing a Tyrone top in front of families with young children. Says it all about these idiots that one of them asked me then was this the stop to get off for Croke Park. Kerry supporters around me in the stadium were actually mortified for them as the match neared the end and were far more classy.
Quote from: TyroneGael89 on July 03, 2023, 06:26:19 PM
I headed to Croke Park on Saturday knowing it was going to be a tough ask but expecting to make Kerry work hard for it if they were to win. Such a shocking performance from the boys, sitting in the stand it came across as a real lack of fight and desire. I know Logan & Dooher are getting the brunt of the blame but I think there's a real softness and attitude problem with some of those players that need weeded out.
As others have mentioned, alot of Armagh supporters made a complete show of themselves. The bus to Drumcondra was full of idiots half-tanked dishing out abuse to anyone wearing a Tyrone top in front of families with young children. Says it all about these idiots that one of them asked me then was this the stop to get off for Croke Park. Kerry supporters around me in the stadium were actually mortified for them as the match neared the end and were far more classy.
Would Fully agree with the softness. Over the last 5-8 years alot of the players seem more concerned with their image rather than winning a dirty ball. Think Sean Cavanagh touched on it in his book as well. I don't think dooher management style would suit these lads either as I would doubt if they appreciate the tough love approach.
Tyrone ones probably should expect a difficult few years ahead.
Quote from: TyroneGael89 on July 03, 2023, 06:26:19 PM
I headed to Croke Park on Saturday knowing it was going to be a tough ask but expecting to make Kerry work hard for it if they were to win. Such a shocking performance from the boys, sitting in the stand it came across as a real lack of fight and desire. I know Logan & Dooher are getting the brunt of the blame but I think there's a real softness and attitude problem with some of those players that need weeded out.
As others have mentioned, alot of Armagh supporters made a complete show of themselves. The bus to Drumcondra was full of idiots half-tanked dishing out abuse to anyone wearing a Tyrone top in front of families with young children. Says it all about these idiots that one of them asked me then was this the stop to get off for Croke Park. Kerry supporters around me in the stadium were actually mortified for them as the match neared the end and were far more classy.
Tyrone won that all Ireland at the latest possible moment. That team is in fade mode now. It happens to all teams. They are like Cork post 2012 or Donegal post 2014.
Very surprised with the ease of the Kerry win Saturday as many are. I knew Tyrone had difficulty with Westmeath but they aren't bad. Then Tyrone hammered Donegal so I guess no more than ourselves the form was patchy. However the lack of much intensity or even pace from Tyrone was shocking. David Cliff and Geaney missed a lot of shots that should really have been scores so on another day the margin could have been even wider.
I did think before the game that Tyrone's structure might be a problem for them in a way. Canvans, McCurry and Donnelly all starting and being out and out forwards didn't make sense with the overall plan. And that turned out to be the case in the game. Mattie Donnelly was well away from goal largely and Graham O'Sullivan made hay and was involved in loads of attacks. McCurry spent a lot of time running around out the field aswell but was well shackled by Jason Foley all day. Darragh Canavan kicked a great point in the first half and got one more but Tom O'Sullivan had every bit as much effect on the game. Ruari Canavan showed his class and that he's one for the future, gave Paul Murphy a bit of bother for a while. Was surprised he was taken off - someone said above he was injured which would make sense. Overall though the personnel and structure of Tyrone didn't seem to make total sense like it did 2 years ago to be fair. A lot of that down to McShane being out of course.
At half time, was happy enough but thought turning around against the wind we would be in for a bit of a battle but after 40 odd minutes it was all over really. How much Tyrone were effected by the 3 games in 3 weekends and/or just had a bad day I don't know. Kerry were good without being stellar in some departments. A tough test against Derry ahead, who certainly won't lack pace or drive. On form it looks like a Kerry v Dublin final on form BUT Derry would only love to ruin that narrative.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/03/mayo-people-will-put-up-with-a-lot-but-they-wont-accept-meek-surrender/
For Tyrone, there's no such comfort. They'll need to go diving deep into the basin to find the good in their season. The blooming of Darragh Canavan is an obvious highlight but even he was wiped out by Kerry on Saturday. Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly will both be 33 by the time next season starts. Kieran McGeary and Cathal McShane are ghosts of the players who won the All-Ireland two years ago, Conor McKenna is in Australia. Tyrone's year has very little to recommend it.
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: TyroneGael89 on July 03, 2023, 06:26:19 PM
I headed to Croke Park on Saturday knowing it was going to be a tough ask but expecting to make Kerry work hard for it if they were to win. Such a shocking performance from the boys, sitting in the stand it came across as a real lack of fight and desire. I know Logan & Dooher are getting the brunt of the blame but I think there's a real softness and attitude problem with some of those players that need weeded out.
As others have mentioned, alot of Armagh supporters made a complete show of themselves. The bus to Drumcondra was full of idiots half-tanked dishing out abuse to anyone wearing a Tyrone top in front of families with young children. Says it all about these idiots that one of them asked me then was this the stop to get off for Croke Park. Kerry supporters around me in the stadium were actually mortified for them as the match neared the end and were far more classy.
Tyrone won that all Ireland at the latest possible moment. That team is in fade mode now. It happens to all teams. They are like Cork post 2012 or Donegal post 2014.
Would Dublin's players not be in the fade mode either? Cluxton and co are some age for county set up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 07:34:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 06:55:55 PM
Quote from: TyroneGael89 on July 03, 2023, 06:26:19 PM
I headed to Croke Park on Saturday knowing it was going to be a tough ask but expecting to make Kerry work hard for it if they were to win. Such a shocking performance from the boys, sitting in the stand it came across as a real lack of fight and desire. I know Logan & Dooher are getting the brunt of the blame but I think there's a real softness and attitude problem with some of those players that need weeded out.
As others have mentioned, alot of Armagh supporters made a complete show of themselves. The bus to Drumcondra was full of idiots half-tanked dishing out abuse to anyone wearing a Tyrone top in front of families with young children. Says it all about these idiots that one of them asked me then was this the stop to get off for Croke Park. Kerry supporters around me in the stadium were actually mortified for them as the match neared the end and were far more classy.
Tyrone won that all Ireland at the latest possible moment. That team is in fade mode now. It happens to all teams. They are like Cork post 2012 or Donegal post 2014.
Would Dublin's players not be in the fade mode either? Cluxton and co are some age for county set up
I think so
Most of them took a break at some point. In Tyrone we keep expecting the guys to perform, from Mc Kenna cup throughout. How are we going to develop if we are so judgemental and critical all the time. Maybe some guys can't go the extra mile anymore. Would you have been happy if management binned them after last year. Look at Matty Donnelly. He came back before and put everything in he could... I'm still v glad he did and fair play to management for their loyalty. If the managements crime is believing that the group could rise again and they failed because of that, then I think they are in the best position to rebuild and they can be more objective going forward. to me it's about a fresh look at all the coaching again. From top to bottom of Tyrone inc academy. Gaelic football in 5 years time will be all about the exceptional forwards again. I firmly believe we need to ensure our youth teams have the skill developed to match the athleticism. Defenders will also be critical in the future. The likes of specialists like hampsey who can mark a man almost out of it, even one of the greatest ever...
Since the end of the 6 in a row things have returned to normal. There won't be one team dominating indefinitely. Dublin might win one more. Kerry will be there or thereabouts. It will come down to individual matches and clutch moments. Tyrone might need some time to get up to the right level but it will be worth it.
A lot of good teams scratching their heads these days . Credit Dublin Derry Kerry Monaghan. They adapted better to the new conditions and Monaghan had a great focus from their early round robin games.
I think if all stays the same next year, there will be an even more competitive ouch for the outright winning of the group. For everyone except Armagh there were obvious advantages with the extra week that helped their cause.
I'm getting more convinced that the reasons that Dub and Kerry have more all irelands is that they can Adapt quicker than the others whatever the environment.
The weeks rest for the group winners was overrated at the weekend. Dublin/Kerry are the 2 best teams in the country so therefore it wouldn't have mattered if they had 3 weeks rest or were out 3 weeks in a row. Derry are in the discussion for the 3rd best team in the country and got the draw they would have hand picked if given the choice so again the rest was irrelevant imo.
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2023, 11:53:49 AM
The weeks rest for the group winners was overrated at the weekend. Dublin/Kerry are the 2 best teams in the country so therefore it wouldn't have mattered if they had 3 weeks rest or were out 3 weeks in a row. Derry are in the discussion for the 3rd best team in the country and got the draw they would have hand picked if given the choice so again the rest was irrelevant imo.
This it it. I think you reverse it, give Tyrone and Mayo an extra wks rest, and we would be here discussing how much of a benefit it was to get a run of games as Kerry and Dublin still win well in my view. They're just better teams at the minute.
Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 11:20:25 AM
A lot of good teams scratching their heads these days . Credit Dublin Derry Kerry Monaghan. They adapted better to the new conditions and Monaghan had a great focus from their early round robin games.
I think if all stays the same next year, there will be an even more competitive ouch for the outright winning of the group. For everyone except Armagh there were obvious advantages with the extra week that helped their cause.
I'm getting more convinced that the reasons that Dub and Kerry have more all irelands is that they can Adapt quicker than the others whatever the environment.
I disagree with the adapt better comment, kerry and Dublin are the two best teams in Ireland this year, has little to do with adapting to the format.
Kerry and Dublin were not clearly the 2 best teams in Ireland all year or even up until 4 weeks ago. They have adapted well and now appear to be the best 2 teams in Ireland.
"You want the best version of each team in the qf. They need an extra weekend off
There was a lack of energy in pqf teams "
https://youtu.be/7-4bxDLKnZg
Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 01:18:36 PM
Kerry and Dublin were not clearly the 2 best teams in Ireland all year or even up until 4 weeks ago. They have adapted well and now appear to be the best 2 teams in Ireland.
So who were the best 2 teams going into the quarter finals at the weekend? And in what way have they adapted well to the new format that others haven't?
Quote from: blanketattack on July 01, 2023, 07:18:53 PM
Today showed what a nasty illness Long Covid is.
No need for comment like that.
Kerry hitting form at the right time. Killian Spillane to come back and Stephen O'Brien getting fitter. They will take stopping with Jack O'Connor to win his first back to back All Irelands.
Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 11:20:25 AM
A lot of good teams scratching their heads these days . Credit Dublin Derry Kerry Monaghan. They adapted better to the new conditions and Monaghan had a great focus from their early round robin games.
I think if all stays the same next year, there will be an even more competitive ouch for the outright winning of the group. For everyone except Armagh there were obvious advantages with the extra week that helped their cause.
I'm getting more convinced that the reasons that Dub and Kerry have more all irelands is that they can Adapt quicker than the others whatever the environment.
[/b]
I would say Kerry have been the masters of reinvention over the years. New rivals come and go and they learn and adapt. But both Dublin and Kerry have bigger picks than most and in Kerry's case an obsession with Gaelic football!
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
Might have but their neighbours Cork did them a huge favour on June 18th.
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
I believe that Kerry did coast through the League but losing to Mayo was certainly not in their plans and nor is there any real evidence to suggest that they have improved from last year. If Con O'Callaghan had been fit for last years AI semi final I believe that the Dubs would have won that AI title. That game I believe is still the most reliable form guide and the Dubs are very marginal favourites at the minute because of O'Callaghan and the other returning players. I certainly don't think either side will win it easily.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Paudie Clifford was definitely angry for one.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 04, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
I believe that Kerry did coast through the League but losing to Mayo was certainly not in their plans and nor is there any real evidence to suggest that they have improved from last year. If Con O'Callaghan had been fit for last years AI semi final I believe that the Dubs would have won that AI title. That game I believe is still the most reliable form guide and the Dubs are very marginal favourites at the minute because of O'Callaghan and the other returning players. I certainly don't think either side will win it easily.
Kerry were far better than the scoreline suggested against Dublin last year.
Kerry missed a penalty and O'brien missed a sitter. Should have been 12 points up instead of 6, then Kerry gift Dublin a goal and start to panic. The confidence that win has given Kerry is of great benefit though.
If Con O'Callaghan was missing for the Dublin-Mayo game in 2021 I bet most people would have said, "If Con wasn't missing Dublin would have won", so I don't buy the narrative that Dublin would have won that game with Con
Quote from: blanketattack on July 04, 2023, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 04, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
I believe that Kerry did coast through the League but losing to Mayo was certainly not in their plans and nor is there any real evidence to suggest that they have improved from last year. If Con O'Callaghan had been fit for last years AI semi final I believe that the Dubs would have won that AI title. That game I believe is still the most reliable form guide and the Dubs are very marginal favourites at the minute because of O'Callaghan and the other returning players. I certainly don't think either side will win it easily.
Kerry were far better than the scoreline suggested against Dublin last year.
Kerry missed a penalty and O'brien missed a sitter. Should have been 12 points up instead of 6, then Kerry gift Dublin a goal and start to panic. The confidence that win has given Kerry is of great benefit though.
If Con O'Callaghan was missing for the Dublin-Mayo game in 2021 I bet most people would have said, "If Con wasn't missing Dublin would have won", so I don't buy the narrative that Dublin would have won that game with Con
Slightly delusional stuff there -- if Niall Scully hadn't fluffed his wild effort at a point in the dying seconds of that Semi (which wouldn't have happened under Gavin, not a chance) allowing Kerry a kick-out and Seán Ó Shea's monster free, the SAM was destined elsewhere. But, them's the breaks, just like 2021! 😀
Quote from: blanketattack on July 04, 2023, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 04, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
I believe that Kerry did coast through the League but losing to Mayo was certainly not in their plans and nor is there any real evidence to suggest that they have improved from last year. If Con O'Callaghan had been fit for last years AI semi final I believe that the Dubs would have won that AI title. That game I believe is still the most reliable form guide and the Dubs are very marginal favourites at the minute because of O'Callaghan and the other returning players. I certainly don't think either side will win it easily.
Kerry were far better than the scoreline suggested against Dublin last year.
Kerry missed a penalty and O'brien missed a sitter. Should have been 12 points up instead of 6, then Kerry gift Dublin a goal and start to panic. The confidence that win has given Kerry is of great benefit though.
If Con O'Callaghan was missing for the Dublin-Mayo game in 2021 I bet most people would have said, "If Con wasn't missing Dublin would have won", so I don't buy the narrative that Dublin would have won that game with Con
It's only an opinion and nobody can know for sure but he was the form player in the country along with Clifford heading into last years semi final when Kerry were more dominant than they have been this season. I fancied Kerry to beat the Dubs before last years semi final but they stumbled over the line. This year I'm not so sure but it's still very much a toss of a coin until we see the semi finals. Kerry have youth on their side so Ibthink they'll win more AI titles in the years to come regardless. I'm not sure about the Dubs though they are more reliant on one last sting from a dying wasp.
Quote from: blanketattack on July 04, 2023, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 04, 2023, 05:59:49 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on July 04, 2023, 03:06:56 PM
Beat me to it again ArmaghMike. ;D
Kerry have always had great footballers over the years and haven't gone too many years barron of a top top player like Clifford, Gooch, Fitzy etc but like you said football skills wont win you an All-Ireland on it's own.
For years it was always the Dubs and Kerry were the main players and then somebody would come along and challenge them like Down in the 60s.
Kerry on Saturday looked like a team very focused with a lot of anger and revenge in their heads, hell bent in showing up these arrogant Northern lot for what they really see them as. O'Connor isn't everyone's cup of tea in Kerry I believe but he certainly knows how to get the job done. The lengths he went to last year to bring in the right people and as you said re-adapt to how the modern game is played now, whether you like it or not.
Kerry knew the early stages of this year meant nothing and losing to Mayo wouldn't define their season, in fact it was a bit like Tyrone losing to Kerry in the league in 21 and creating a false sense of where they were at.
I think they will win the AI this year with quite a bit to spare and believe they have improved from last year.
They showed on Sat that they aren't totally dependent on Clifford and can still put up a big score if he's well marshalled.
I believe that Kerry did coast through the League but losing to Mayo was certainly not in their plans and nor is there any real evidence to suggest that they have improved from last year. If Con O'Callaghan had been fit for last years AI semi final I believe that the Dubs would have won that AI title. That game I believe is still the most reliable form guide and the Dubs are very marginal favourites at the minute because of O'Callaghan and the other returning players. I certainly don't think either side will win it easily.
Kerry were far better than the scoreline suggested against Dublin last year.
Kerry missed a penalty and O'brien missed a sitter. Should have been 12 points up instead of 6, then Kerry gift Dublin a goal and start to panic. The confidence that win has given Kerry is of great benefit though.
If Con O'Callaghan was missing for the Dublin-Mayo game in 2021 I bet most people would have said, "If Con wasn't missing Dublin would have won", so I don't buy the narrative that Dublin would have won that game with Con
You fear for Dublin defence against kerry forwards. This Kerry team unlike the team naughties don't shit the bed in tight games. Kerry cynicism goes under the radar allowing them to get 15 behind the ball.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41174650.html
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2023, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Paudie Clifford was definitely angry for one.
He hasn't recovered from his sending-off acceptance speech. Did he serve a ban for that outburst yet? Maybe not because he is from Ciarraí, where long Covid is still a joke. Could come back to bite Clann Uí Shé. Serious issue for some.
Quote from: restorepride on July 04, 2023, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2023, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Paudie Clifford was definitely angry for one.
He hasn't recovered from his sending-off acceptance speech. Did he serve a ban for that outburst yet? Maybe not because he is from Ciarraí, where long Covid is still a joke. Could come back to bite Clann Uí Shé. Serious issue for some.
Jesus, you Tyroneies are soft as f**k
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 11:20:55 PM
Quote from: restorepride on July 04, 2023, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2023, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Paudie Clifford was definitely angry for one.
He hasn't recovered from his sending-off acceptance speech. Did he serve a ban for that outburst yet? Maybe not because he is from Ciarraí, where long Covid is still a joke. Could come back to bite Clann Uí Shé. Serious issue for some.
Jesus, you Tyroneies are soft as f**k
Restore is an oak leaf man
Quote from: rrhf on June 30, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 30, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
Thats an amazing insight into your thought patterns but Im not letting you create that narrative in this case. Do you believe Morgan shouldnt have went for the ball and let what was a wayward pass be won uncontested by Clifford. Even if that was the case why was he even stretching out cramp on the sideline by the way...
[/quote]
Not trying to create any narrative. I'm going by video evidence along with word from within the Kerry camp. Watch when the injury occurred here at the 1hr 19 minute mark. https://o-trim.co/yoGovq (https://o-trim.co/yoGovq)
Clifford had an ice pack on his thigh during extra time, clearly seen on television. Have a look at the recent Sunday Game, in the lead up to the Kerry/Tyrone highlights, the ice pack on his thigh is also shown. Just want to debunk this cramp myth as that is all it is, a myth. Absolutely, Niall Morgan did what he had to do in competing for the ball. It was 100% an accident. I'm not in one way trying to take away from Tyrone's AI win, it was fully deserved. All Ireland wins are hard earned, I hate it when counties are not given full credit. You seem to be a very decent poster so it came as a surprise that you of all people are trying to indicate that I'm attempting to create a narrative. Just as in all walks of life I only stick to the facts.
There is another Tyrone poster that I really take issue with though. He is constantly trying to create the narrative that Kerry are bad losers and even worse winners. This even seeps down to club level where he also made some crazy remarks on this year's junior final. County supporters who are used to winning and losing take it in their stride and that goes for every Kerry supporter I know. His hatred for Kerry knows no bounds. It's doubtful if he even knows one Kerry person. It is another myth that Kerry never gave Tyrone credit for their victories in '03, '05 and '08. This was all media driven. They had some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Peter Canavan may well be the best ever. There is no way that Dublin would have won 6 in a row, nor anywhere close, if that Tyrone team arrived at the same time.
The win on Saturday was special because of the respect we have for Tyrone. Sport is a lot about rivalry and should have nothing to do with hatred. If there is hatred in your heart keep away and find another hobby. Be the first to congratulate the winner and console the loser. A year is a very short time in sport, cherish the wins and don't get too down about the defeats. Tyrone will be back, Darragh and Ruairi Canavan as special players and Tyrone are recent U20 winners .
Quote from: restorepride on July 04, 2023, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: square_ball on July 04, 2023, 06:05:08 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 04, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
Do you really think Kerry looked focused and angry on Saturday? They didn't look too flushed or puffed out with effort, I think Tyrone just rolled over and allowed Kerry to tickle their bellies
Paudie Clifford was definitely angry for one.
He hasn't recovered from his sending-off acceptance speech. Did he serve a ban for that outburst yet? Maybe not because he is from Ciarraí, where long Covid is still a joke. Could come back to bite Clann Uí Shé. Serious issue for some.
Paudie Clifford didn't get ban for club final.
Quote from: Seamus on July 05, 2023, 01:24:42 AM
Quote from: rrhf on June 30, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 30, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
Thats an amazing insight into your thought patterns but Im not letting you create that narrative in this case. Do you believe Morgan shouldnt have went for the ball and let what was a wayward pass be won uncontested by Clifford. Even if that was the case why was he even stretching out cramp on the sideline by the way...
Not trying to create any narrative. I'm going by video evidence along with word from within the Kerry camp. Watch when the injury occurred here at the 1hr 19 minute mark. https://o-trim.co/yoGovq (https://o-trim.co/yoGovq)
Clifford had an ice pack on his thigh during extra time, clearly seen on television. Have a look at the recent Sunday Game, in the lead up to the Kerry/Tyrone highlights, the ice pack on his thigh is also shown. Just want to debunk this cramp myth as that is all it is, a myth. Absolutely, Niall Morgan did what he had to do in competing for the ball. It was 100% an accident. I'm not in one way trying to take away from Tyrone's AI win, it was fully deserved. All Ireland wins are hard earned, I hate it when counties are not given full credit. You seem to be a very decent poster so it came as a surprise that you of all people are trying to indicate that I'm attempting to create a narrative. Just as in all walks of life I only stick to the facts.
There is another Tyrone poster that I really take issue with though. He is constantly trying to create the narrative that Kerry are bad losers and even worse winners. This even seeps down to club level where he also made some crazy remarks on this year's junior final. County supporters who are used to winning and losing take it in their stride and that goes for every Kerry supporter I know. His hatred for Kerry knows no bounds. It's doubtful if he even knows one Kerry person. It is another myth that Kerry never gave Tyrone credit for their victories in '03, '05 and '08. This was all media driven. They had some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Peter Canavan may well be the best ever. There is no way that Dublin would have won 6 in a row, nor anywhere close, if that Tyrone team arrived at the same time.
The win on Saturday was special because of the respect we have for Tyrone. Sport is a lot about rivalry and should have nothing to do with hatred. If there is hatred in your heart keep away and find another hobby. Be the first to congratulate the winner and console the loser. A year is a very short time in sport, cherish the wins and don't get too down about the defeats. Tyrone will be back, Darragh and Ruairi Canavan as special players and Tyrone are recent U20 winners .
[/quote]
Well said Seamus, agree on all.
I agree Kerry had the motive, the weapons, and the know how and Tyrone were the innocent victims of a heinous event...
Quote from: Seamus on July 05, 2023, 01:24:42 AM
Quote from: rrhf on June 30, 2023, 03:37:37 PM
Quote from: Seamus on June 30, 2023, 01:50:42 AM
Quote from: HokeyPokey on June 27, 2023, 03:45:30 PM
Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.
Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.
Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.
Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?
FYI David Clifford did not suffer from cramp that day. He went off injured with a dead leg as a result of a knee to the thigh by Niall Morgan. He labored badly for at least the last 10 minutes of regulation. Conditioning was not the issue as you state.
Thats an amazing insight into your thought patterns but Im not letting you create that narrative in this case. Do you believe Morgan shouldnt have went for the ball and let what was a wayward pass be won uncontested by Clifford. Even if that was the case why was he even stretching out cramp on the sideline by the way...
Not trying to create any narrative. I'm going by video evidence along with word from within the Kerry camp. Watch when the injury occurred here at the 1hr 19 minute mark. https://o-trim.co/yoGovq (https://o-trim.co/yoGovq)
Clifford had an ice pack on his thigh during extra time, clearly seen on television. Have a look at the recent Sunday Game, in the lead up to the Kerry/Tyrone highlights, the ice pack on his thigh is also shown. Just want to debunk this cramp myth as that is all it is, a myth. Absolutely, Niall Morgan did what he had to do in competing for the ball. It was 100% an accident. I'm not in one way trying to take away from Tyrone's AI win, it was fully deserved. All Ireland wins are hard earned, I hate it when counties are not given full credit. You seem to be a very decent poster so it came as a surprise that you of all people are trying to indicate that I'm attempting to create a narrative. Just as in all walks of life I only stick to the facts.
There is another Tyrone poster that I really take issue with though. He is constantly trying to create the narrative that Kerry are bad losers and even worse winners. This even seeps down to club level where he also made some crazy remarks on this year's junior final. County supporters who are used to winning and losing take it in their stride and that goes for every Kerry supporter I know. His hatred for Kerry knows no bounds. It's doubtful if he even knows one Kerry person. It is another myth that Kerry never gave Tyrone credit for their victories in '03, '05 and '08. This was all media driven. They had some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Peter Canavan may well be the best ever. There is no way that Dublin would have won 6 in a row, nor anywhere close, if that Tyrone team arrived at the same time.
The win on Saturday was special because of the respect we have for Tyrone. Sport is a lot about rivalry and should have nothing to do with hatred. If there is hatred in your heart keep away and find another hobby. Be the first to congratulate the winner and console the loser. A year is a very short time in sport, cherish the wins and don't get too down about the defeats. Tyrone will be back, Darragh and Ruairi Canavan as special players and Tyrone are recent U20 winners .
[/quote]
All good craic.. To me the footballing moment of the year was David Clifford's pass. Only the best of the best could even attempt this... genuine privilege to be there to see it..
Quote from: Seamus on July 05, 2023, 01:24:42 AM
Not trying to create any narrative. I'm going by video evidence along with word from within the Kerry camp. Watch when the injury occurred here at the 1hr 19 minute mark. https://o-trim.co/yoGovq (https://o-trim.co/yoGovq)
Clifford had an ice pack on his thigh during extra time, clearly seen on television. Have a look at the recent Sunday Game, in the lead up to the Kerry/Tyrone highlights, the ice pack on his thigh is also shown. Just want to debunk this cramp myth as that is all it is, a myth. Absolutely, Niall Morgan did what he had to do in competing for the ball. It was 100% an accident. I'm not in one way trying to take away from Tyrone's AI win, it was fully deserved. All Ireland wins are hard earned, I hate it when counties are not given full credit. You seem to be a very decent poster so it came as a surprise that you of all people are trying to indicate that I'm attempting to create a narrative. Just as in all walks of life I only stick to the facts.
There is another Tyrone poster that I really take issue with though. He is constantly trying to create the narrative that Kerry are bad losers and even worse winners. This even seeps down to club level where he also made some crazy remarks on this year's junior final. County supporters who are used to winning and losing take it in their stride and that goes for every Kerry supporter I know. His hatred for Kerry knows no bounds. It's doubtful if he even knows one Kerry person. It is another myth that Kerry never gave Tyrone credit for their victories in '03, '05 and '08. This was all media driven. They had some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Peter Canavan may well be the best ever. There is no way that Dublin would have won 6 in a row, nor anywhere close, if that Tyrone team arrived at the same time.
The win on Saturday was special because of the respect we have for Tyrone. Sport is a lot about rivalry and should have nothing to do with hatred. If there is hatred in your heart keep away and find another hobby. Be the first to congratulate the winner and console the loser. A year is a very short time in sport, cherish the wins and don't get too down about the defeats. Tyrone will be back, Darragh and Ruairi Canavan as special players and Tyrone are recent U20 winners .
I don't hate anybody lol but I'll call a spade a spade and in the most recent case the behaviour of the O'Shea brothers at the weekend was unacceptable.
Quote from: clarshack on July 05, 2023, 09:07:26 PM
Quote from: Seamus on July 05, 2023, 01:24:42 AM
Not trying to create any narrative. I'm going by video evidence along with word from within the Kerry camp. Watch when the injury occurred here at the 1hr 19 minute mark. https://o-trim.co/yoGovq (https://o-trim.co/yoGovq)
Clifford had an ice pack on his thigh during extra time, clearly seen on television. Have a look at the recent Sunday Game, in the lead up to the Kerry/Tyrone highlights, the ice pack on his thigh is also shown. Just want to debunk this cramp myth as that is all it is, a myth. Absolutely, Niall Morgan did what he had to do in competing for the ball. It was 100% an accident. I'm not in one way trying to take away from Tyrone's AI win, it was fully deserved. All Ireland wins are hard earned, I hate it when counties are not given full credit. You seem to be a very decent poster so it came as a surprise that you of all people are trying to indicate that I'm attempting to create a narrative. Just as in all walks of life I only stick to the facts.
There is another Tyrone poster that I really take issue with though. He is constantly trying to create the narrative that Kerry are bad losers and even worse winners. This even seeps down to club level where he also made some crazy remarks on this year's junior final. County supporters who are used to winning and losing take it in their stride and that goes for every Kerry supporter I know. His hatred for Kerry knows no bounds. It's doubtful if he even knows one Kerry person. It is another myth that Kerry never gave Tyrone credit for their victories in '03, '05 and '08. This was all media driven. They had some of the greatest players to ever play the game. Peter Canavan may well be the best ever. There is no way that Dublin would have won 6 in a row, nor anywhere close, if that Tyrone team arrived at the same time.
The win on Saturday was special because of the respect we have for Tyrone. Sport is a lot about rivalry and should have nothing to do with hatred. If there is hatred in your heart keep away and find another hobby. Be the first to congratulate the winner and console the loser. A year is a very short time in sport, cherish the wins and don't get too down about the defeats. Tyrone will be back, Darragh and Ruairi Canavan as special players and Tyrone are recent U20 winners .
I don't hate anybody lol but I'll call a spade a spade and in the most recent case the behaviour of the O'Shea brothers at the weekend was unacceptable.
All good craic...it's part of the game
Commentators repeatedly said at the time it was cramp,
which i think is where it comes from, but they had got it wrong. It was from the accidental collision with Morgan.
There is a truth in the narrative that many Kerry people believe Tyrone is the big bad wolf who, when defeated, is taught a footballing lesson.
The truth on Saturday was in front of their faces. Kerry did everything Tyrone was lauded for two years ago and did it well. They defended with 15 in their own half, and attacked at pace when turned over. When Tyrone did manage to turn the Kerry attack over, the Tyrone runners were systematically fouled. I've no issue with that.
I met more than one Kerry supporter afterward who actually believed Tyrone were taught a footballing masterclass of attacking football. It's that blindness which grates.
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12
Quote from: screenexile on July 06, 2023, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12
Not sure the relevance of the score is to what I asked MR2?
Tyrone were hammered by a better team than them. MR2 said that 'Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough' and I'm asking him where is the evidence in the build up to the game for this logic?
Probably mentioned earlier on the in the thread but saw Clifford in the GAA team of the week but but thought it was the poorest I've seen him with his kicking, turns out he scored 1 point from play from 9 efforts.
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 06, 2023, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12
Not sure the relevance of the score is to what I asked MR2?
Tyrone were hammered by a better team than them. MR2 said that 'Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough' and I'm asking him where is the evidence in the build up to the game for this logic?
There was some posts regarding Tyrone's recent wins and the old wins back in the day.
As I said it's like Tyrone thought they'd have the Indian sign over them.
The sensitivity over what the brothers were saying is a bit over the top considering what's said on the pitch
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 06, 2023, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12
Not sure the relevance of the score is to what I asked MR2?
Tyrone were hammered by a better team than them. MR2 said that 'Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough' and I'm asking him where is the evidence in the build up to the game for this logic?
There was some posts regarding Tyrone's recent wins and the old wins back in the day.
As I said it's like Tyrone thought they'd have the Indian sign over them.
The sensitivity over what the brothers were saying is a bit over the top considering what's said on the pitch
What's said on the pitch?
I don't think Tyrone are the source of the idea that Tyrone had the Indian sign over Kerry.
Most of the Tyrone team had lost at least once to Kerry. Tyrone beat Kerry 3 times in the 00s. And Kerry won in 2012, 2015 and 2019. In 2015 and 2019, there wasn't much between them.
I think Tyrone people thought we could raise their game for Kerry and that Kerry could struggle when dealing with teams that don't stand off them and go at them with intensity. Good Tyrone teams react well when written off or talked down to etc. That obviously wasn't the case last weekend.
When Tyrone lost in those games and this game it was more irksome because of Kerry supporters and pundits narratives as others have talked about above. Tyrone just moved on and didn't try cry foul as Kerry people often did in the 00s and in 2021.
The conspiracies pushed around 2021 were bad enough at the time, but there's more than enough interviews been given since to refute that and plenty of basic reason like why medical professionals at the top of their field would risk their careers and names to pull a stroke for a football game. To make mean spirited and petty jokes about it and to push a narrative that Tyrone pulled a stroke is very insulting.
It was the media in general, egged on often by Kerry pundits who after the 2021 Tyrone win immediately jumped on the Indian sign bandwagon. Tyrone themselves seemed to have an issue beating the Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Donegal for a while. Many in Kerry seem to have an attitude that any championship loss to Tyrone is a great injustice or disturbance in the right order of things. It's odd that the pettiness remains, especially with all the years and all that has passed since and when you look at those 00s games which were in large were end to end games and accusing Tyrone, with a full forward line of O'Neill, Canavan and Mulligan of not being good footballers is madness. I don't think I've observed similar pettiness against other teams which has lasted as long, aside from local rivalries. 2021 was more relief for me to finally get over a big team and pride in their effort and to overcome the odds and proved their many detractors wrong. A win is sweeter against Kerry, but I think that's mostly down to the attitude shown by many Kerry pundits etc. towards Tyrone which sought to put an asterix beside every Tyrone win against them.
Quote from: ONeill on July 05, 2023, 11:33:31 PM
There is a truth in the narrative that many Kerry people believe Tyrone is the big bad wolf who, when defeated, is taught a footballing lesson.
The truth on Saturday was in front of their faces. Kerry did everything Tyrone was lauded for two years ago and did it well. They defended with 15 in their own half, and attacked at pace when turned over. When Tyrone did manage to turn the Kerry attack over, the Tyrone runners were systematically fouled. I've no issue with that.
I met more than one Kerry supporter afterward who actually believed Tyrone were taught a footballing masterclass of attacking football. It's that blindness which grates.
Exhibition of blanket defence by the Kingdom Boys. Throw in the sledging by some of their players.
Pat Spillange said in SW Kerry players felt their were blackguarded by Tyrone team because of the covid 19 delayed semi final in 2021.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 06, 2023, 01:15:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 11:27:03 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: screenexile on July 06, 2023, 09:32:22 AM
Quote from: square_ball on July 06, 2023, 08:54:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
Kerry don't like when teams try to out hoor them, the 'Covid' game was that.
We addressed it at the time and everyone had their views on it. Nothing changed so mentioning it or if they used that as another motivator so what? Teams inch out any form of motivation needed to get an edge, Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough.
Nonsense. Where's the evidence Tyrone thought that?
Kerry 2-18 Tyrone 0-12
Not sure the relevance of the score is to what I asked MR2?
Tyrone were hammered by a better team than them. MR2 said that 'Tyrone obviously thought having the Indian sign over Kerry would be enough' and I'm asking him where is the evidence in the build up to the game for this logic?
There was some posts regarding Tyrone's recent wins and the old wins back in the day.
As I said it's like Tyrone thought they'd have the Indian sign over them.
The sensitivity over what the brothers were saying is a bit over the top considering what's said on the pitch
What's said on the pitch?
Hello sir how are you? I really hope you have a nice day, fine weather we are having, I really hope this war in Ukraine ends peacefully..
That sort of stuff!
If you think for a second there are any pleasant conversations you've never played
What's said on the pitch is between the players. However nasty it gets, it's rarely if ever shared with the public.
The O Se brothers abused a public platform to make tasteless jokes about Tyrone and covid. Anybody interested in the football over the weekend tuned in to hear what the experts had to say would hear that. Many people found the comments offensive.
If you can't see the difference then there's no point in trying to reason with you.
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 05:30:10 PM
What's said on the pitch is between the players. However nasty it gets, it's rarely if ever shared with the public.
The O Se brothers abused a public platform to make tasteless jokes about Tyrone and covid. Anybody interested in the football over the weekend tuned in to hear what the experts had to say would hear that. Many people found the comments offensive.
If you can't see the difference then there's no point in trying to reason with you.
It was funny you lads need to lighten up!!
Quote from: screenexile on July 06, 2023, 07:36:02 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 05:30:10 PM
What's said on the pitch is between the players. However nasty it gets, it's rarely if ever shared with the public.
The O Se brothers abused a public platform to make tasteless jokes about Tyrone and covid. Anybody interested in the football over the weekend tuned in to hear what the experts had to say would hear that. Many people found the comments offensive.
If you can't see the difference then there's no point in trying to reason with you.
It was funny you lads need to lighten up!!
No it's awful a lot of those players that caught covid couldn't recover enough to play against Kerry, no wait, they did and Tyrone won, but the O'sheas are Cnuts ;D
Wise up!
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
So Tyroneies are offended about someone saying covid semi?
Personally, and at the time if part of the Kerry committee I would not have been offering to play the game. Yas pulled a fast one and it worked. Save me the concern about covid in general, as that wasn't the case here.
I can throw up plenty of posts from Tyrone posters who were not into buying into the real danger of covid but happy to get the extra weeks to have players 'with covid' ready.
And show me were I said it was funny? Piss takers? yes 100%
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
Not really! I had my own issues within my family over Covid but I can separate out a tongue in cheek comment with regard to Tyrone's postponement in 2021 versus someone who's actively trying to cause offence.
I don't really understand why others can't see it the same way!
Er no, if some lad gonna say something very offensive on a field. I no problem airing it in public, Limavady man called us all Tyrone men one time during a game. Lad never saw the finish.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 06, 2023, 10:07:19 PM
Er no, if some lad gonna say something very offensive on a field. I no problem airing it in public, Limavady man called us all Tyrone men one time during a game. Lad never saw the finish.
If it was Ballinderry he was right. Lol
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 06, 2023, 10:07:19 PM
Er no, if some lad gonna say something very offensive on a field. I no problem airing it in public, Limavady man called us all Tyrone men one time during a game. Lad never saw the finish.
That's below the belt. 52 week ban.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 06, 2023, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
So Tyroneies are offended about someone saying covid semi?
Personally, and at the time if part of the Kerry committee I would not have been offering to play the game. Yas pulled a fast one and it worked. Save me the concern about covid in general, as that wasn't the case here.
I can throw up plenty of posts from Tyrone posters who were not into buying into the real danger of covid but happy to get the extra weeks to have players 'with covid' ready.
And show me were I said it was funny? Piss takers? yes 100%
I asked a number of times back then and didn't get an answer but I'll ask again. What was the fast one that Tyrone pulled? What was it all about?
I said at the time, I felt that Tyrone used a covid situation to their advantage, if I'm the manager of a team and I am struggling to field at club level I'll bring in my reserves to play, Tyrone are picking from a county, they'd plenty to pick from.
Choose their path and that should have been the end of it
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 11:02:24 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 06, 2023, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
So Tyroneies are offended about someone saying covid semi?
Personally, and at the time if part of the Kerry committee I would not have been offering to play the game. Yas pulled a fast one and it worked. Save me the concern about covid in general, as that wasn't the case here.
I can throw up plenty of posts from Tyrone posters who were not into buying into the real danger of covid but happy to get the extra weeks to have players 'with covid' ready.
And show me were I said it was funny? Piss takers? yes 100%
I asked a number of times back then and didn't get an answer but I'll ask again. What was the fast one that Tyrone pulled? What was it all about?
I said at the time, I felt that Tyrone used a covid situation to their advantage, if I'm the manager of a team and I am struggling to field at club level I'll bring in my reserves to play, Tyrone are picking from a county, they'd plenty to pick from.
Choose their path and that should have been the end of it
They played the Ulster final with many missing with covid. The week delay was correct as was required and Tyrone won. Been poor since but won it fair and square
Careful Duine - MR2 will be saying you have special needs next like he was calling people in another thread.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2023, 07:24:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 11:02:24 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 06, 2023, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
So Tyroneies are offended about someone saying covid semi?
Personally, and at the time if part of the Kerry committee I would not have been offering to play the game. Yas pulled a fast one and it worked. Save me the concern about covid in general, as that wasn't the case here.
I can throw up plenty of posts from Tyrone posters who were not into buying into the real danger of covid but happy to get the extra weeks to have players 'with covid' ready.
And show me were I said it was funny? Piss takers? yes 100%
I asked a number of times back then and didn't get an answer but I'll ask again. What was the fast one that Tyrone pulled? What was it all about?
I said at the time, I felt that Tyrone used a covid situation to their advantage, if I'm the manager of a team and I am struggling to field at club level I'll bring in my reserves to play, Tyrone are picking from a county, they'd plenty to pick from.
Choose their path and that should have been the end of it
It's not really a fast one. They had a covid situation, declared it and asked for an extra week. That's pretty upfront. The GAA could have refused.
And that's what happen, but don't tell me they didn't have players to fulfil the fixture.
If a team goes down with a stomach bug (which I think happened with Spurs one time, I could be wrong) was the game refixed?
Your club lost out a couple of years ago due to players playing injured and fixture pile ups, a week or two rest could have given them time to recover. In fairness they died with their boots on and Dunloy went on to win handy in final.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2023, 10:18:48 AM
They said there was no point fulfilling the fixture due to the amount of players missing. They pulled out of it. The GAA and Kerry gave them time to recover. Kerry could have advanced to the final.
I know, it was discussed at length at the time, my view as I said would be that Tyrone had players available and refused to play without their 'key' players, Croke allowed it to happen, it wouldn't have been a good look for Kerry to just advance to final, they took the popular choice.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 10:14:11 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 07, 2023, 07:24:42 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 11:02:24 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 06, 2023, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 06, 2023, 08:42:56 PM
Quote from: CK_Redhand on July 06, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
MR2 and Screenexile. You might have found the jokes funny. OK that's grand. Can you accept that a significant number of people have good reason to be offended? Yes or no
So Tyroneies are offended about someone saying covid semi?
Personally, and at the time if part of the Kerry committee I would not have been offering to play the game. Yas pulled a fast one and it worked. Save me the concern about covid in general, as that wasn't the case here.
I can throw up plenty of posts from Tyrone posters who were not into buying into the real danger of covid but happy to get the extra weeks to have players 'with covid' ready.
And show me were I said it was funny? Piss takers? yes 100%
I asked a number of times back then and didn't get an answer but I'll ask again. What was the fast one that Tyrone pulled? What was it all about?
I said at the time, I felt that Tyrone used a covid situation to their advantage, if I'm the manager of a team and I am struggling to field at club level I'll bring in my reserves to play, Tyrone are picking from a county, they'd plenty to pick from.
Choose their path and that should have been the end of it
It's not really a fast one. They had a covid situation, declared it and asked for an extra week. That's pretty upfront. The GAA could have refused.
And that's what happen, but don't tell me they didn't have players to fulfil the fixture.
If a team goes down with a stomach bug (which I think happened with Spurs one time, I could be wrong) was the game refixed?
Your club lost out a couple of years ago due to players playing injured and fixture pile ups, a week or two rest could have given them time to recover. In fairness they died with their boots on and Dunloy went on to win handy in final.
But it was the GAA's decision to reschedule not Tyrone's. Were the GAA being cute huirs?
Tyrone had little to no proper preparation. They took medical advice. Do people honestly think that those medical professionals at the top of their field would put their name and career on the line over this?
They were training with 10 or 15 for most of the period concerned and maybe had one or two training sessions with the full compliment. Kerry could have advanced to the final if they wanted to. It was their choice. They had no shortage of preparation.
It wasn't Tyrone's fault that Kerry didn't get the cake walk that they had expected.
Not to mention the extra week didn't weaken the Kerry team. Tyrone were just better on the day in 21. Would Kerry have gotten any satisfaction in a walk over given the circumstances. I doubt it. I think most Kerry people I spoke to were of the same view. Apart from a couple in the media, I don't think many had any qualms about it.
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
They said they didn't have 15 fit players, so no they couldn't field without bringing in from outside the panel.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
They said they didn't have 15 fit players, so no they couldn't field without bringing in from outside the panel.
So they had players to call on? That's all I'm saying, you've cleared that up
Tyron pulled out. The GAA and Kerry got together to create the delay and leave them no excuseTyrone then had to play the game and the rest is history.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
They said they didn't have 15 fit players, so no they couldn't field without bringing in from outside the panel.
So they had players to call on? That's all I'm saying, you've cleared that up
It's like talking to a 4 year old.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 02:22:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
They said they didn't have 15 fit players, so no they couldn't field without bringing in from outside the panel.
So they had players to call on? That's all I'm saying, you've cleared that up
It's like talking to a 4 year old.
Ah, so you disagree with someone and then run them down. And I'm the 4 year old!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 02:31:12 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 02:22:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 02:02:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 07, 2023, 12:37:42 PM
Could Tyrone field? That's all I'm asking. They put the ball back to crokes court and they made the call.
Kerry's prep isn't what I'm talking about. There are numerous incidents every year were a team is unable to field its best team. But games go on regardless
They said they didn't have 15 fit players, so no they couldn't field without bringing in from outside the panel.
So they had players to call on? That's all I'm saying, you've cleared that up
It's like talking to a 4 year old.
Ah, so you disagree with someone and then run them down. And I'm the 4 year old!
I should d have learned by now Tbf.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on July 07, 2023, 12:00:30 PM
Not to mention the extra week didn't weaken the Kerry team. Tyrone were just better on the day in 21. Would Kerry have gotten any satisfaction in a walk over given the circumstances. I doubt it. I think most Kerry people I spoke to were of the same view. Apart from a couple in the media, I don't think many had any qualms about it.
Don't know, I felt they believed they were going to walk over Tyrone. On hindsight they would have been happy with Mayo in the final.
So many Kerry supporters deep down were actually glad it happened because O Connor left Kildare to return to Kerry and the rest is history. They might not admit it though because it still suits to dismiss a sensational All Ireland win as a Covid win. They are only having the craic though and got a nice bit of revenge last Saturday. They may lose Paddy Tally in the long run though...
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.
There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 08, 2023, 09:43:03 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.
There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.
+1
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 08, 2023, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 08, 2023, 09:43:03 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.
There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.
+1
+2.
But the attempts to demean Tyrone success and Ulster football were not , are not confined to Kerry .
You lads complaining about a game 2yrs ago to overlook getting beat out of the field last week.
The bags of spuds are firmly back on the shoulders alright ;D
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
You lads complaining about a game 2yrs ago to overlook getting beat out of the field last week.
Not overlooking anything, Kerry were excellent and deservedly hammered a listless Tyrone. Indeed, the margin of defeat flattered Tyrone - it could have been worse. But that wasn't the point being discussed in the last few posts :)
Jesus christ this thread needs put to bed. Fed up looking at it
The bastid who's making you read it needs shot.
Haha, too right
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 08, 2023, 09:43:03 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.
There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.
Good post.
Remember when they tried to claim Stephen O'Neill tried to poison them in 2019? Some of them aren't even gracious winners.
Surely we sound as bad now as sore losers giving the complaining some posters do on here. There's times you would be cringing reading it. Reality is fans don't like losing. Tyrone, Kerry, Dublin it doesn't matter, some people just like an auld whinge to cheer them up after a loss.
Kerry has fans every bit as whingy as anyone else. But so do Tyrone.
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 08, 2023, 12:12:12 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 08, 2023, 11:37:51 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on July 08, 2023, 09:43:03 AM
Quote from: ONeill on July 07, 2023, 11:25:24 PM
I don't understand the Kerry mentality here. How does playing a game 7 days later weaken your chances of playing your best game?
Unfortunately the mentality among some Kerry GAA people is that prominent defeats have to be demeaned in some way or other. Easy enough to pull up plenty examples involving just Tyrone. Spillane's puke football jibe in 2003 which was seized upon, the county chairman the following year with the nauseating comments about Kerry saving football, the narrative pushed by some throughout that decade that it was a system or fitness that saw Tyrone win and that Kerry were the better footballers. And Covid in 2021, surely the strangest one yet given an extra week shouldn't have affected Kerry and Tyrone were still weakened. Kerry bounced back to win All Irelands on these occasions but that wasn't enough for some, they still had to try and talk down and cheapen the defeats suffered previously. Not a good look. But still a better one than using a global pandemic in which millions died for the cheapest of laughs.
There were Kerry folk in this era who stood above this - I remember Ger O'Keefe for example speaking with such class in 2005. Others in the county would do well to follow his example.
+1
+2.
But the attempts to demean Tyrone success and Ulster football were not , are not confined to Kerry .
Some people do seem to think, mainly among their own ranks, they are the saviours of football and any football they play is the way that football should be played but when anyone else does it then it's things like "puke football".
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Nearly?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 11, 2023, 11:46:42 AM
That 6 year spell in the noughties has had a serious lasting impact. Before then and since then Kerry have easily had the upper hand but Tyrone continue to live rent free in their heads.
It's odd.
Teams will always use something for motivation, and if this is it then its seems to be working....
Teams can get comfortable after winning games handy so he's just throwing in some comments, seems to have caught a few bites
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Nearly?9
A true coin flip my man! I live near the border with yous boys, if I was from up the west it might have been Derry all day without pause ;D
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 12:20:17 PM
Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 12:07:06 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Nearly?9
A true coin flip my man! I live near the border with yous boys, if I was from up the west it might have been Derry all day without pause ;D
Ach! Go on go on, you know you want to.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 11, 2023, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Kerry people have zero obsession with Tyrone but most Tyrone supporters want to believe that they do. What Jack said is 100% on the money, no bitterness involved whatsoever. In fact no matter what he says bad losers and bad winners will find a angle to attack him. That goes for any Kerry person in sports media, they are either cute hoors or arrogant. It is easy to know who is bitter, your two sentences are full of it.
Quote from: Seamus on July 12, 2023, 12:02:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 11, 2023, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Kerry people have zero obsession with Tyrone but most Tyrone supporters want to believe that they do. What Jack said is 100% on the money, no bitterness involved whatsoever. In fact no matter what he says bad losers and bad winners will find a angle to attack him. That goes for any Kerry person in sports media, they are either cute hoors or arrogant. It is easy to know who is bitter, your two sentences are full of it.
+1
Quote from: Seamus on July 12, 2023, 12:02:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 11, 2023, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Kerry people have zero obsession with Tyrone but most Tyrone supporters want to believe that they do. What Jack said is 100% on the money, no bitterness involved whatsoever. In fact no matter what he says bad losers and bad winners will find a angle to attack him. That goes for any Kerry person in sports media, they are either cute hoors or arrogant. It is easy to know who is bitter, your two sentences are full of it.
Bollox, I know a lot of Kerry people and there's no question but they've got a fear/respect for Tyrone that's unmatched.
I'd take it as a compliment.
Quote from: onefineday on July 12, 2023, 01:17:27 AM
Quote from: Seamus on July 12, 2023, 12:02:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 11, 2023, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Kerry people have zero obsession with Tyrone but most Tyrone supporters want to believe that they do. What Jack said is 100% on the money, no bitterness involved whatsoever. In fact no matter what he says bad losers and bad winners will find a angle to attack him. That goes for any Kerry person in sports media, they are either cute hoors or arrogant. It is easy to know who is bitter, your two sentences are full of it.
Bollox, I know a lot of Kerry people and there's no question but they've got a fear/respect for Tyrone that's unmatched.
I'd take it as a compliment.
Fear and respect for Tyrone, what has that to do with obsession and bitterness, seems to be the opposite to me? Kerry respect all opposition, fear has no place in sport. Fear of what, fear of losing? Keep fear out of our lives please, the main reason that the world is in the state it is in. We got plenty of that for the last three and a half years. Are you fearful of Kerry on Sunday?
The agony and ecstasy is all part of sport, the agony makes the ecstasy greater. If Kerry were winning all the time I would give up following the sport. Win or lose, shake the opponents hand and move on. It is just sport at the end of the day, far greater fish to fry.
I have to admit. the Kerry people I know love the rivalry and the passion and anger it brings out in them and their teams. They take losing bad and look for deflection and things they can blame. They are Tyrone people in green and gold. Love the lead up to a Kerry game and love the rivalry. Feckin hate the defeats and nowadays would see the rivalry as very respectful and aggerssive, which to me is the best rivalry.
Quote from: rrhf on July 13, 2023, 01:45:07 PM
I have to admit. the Kerry people I know love the rivalry and the passion and anger it brings out in them and their teams. They take losing bad and look for deflection and things they can blame. They are Tyrone people in green and gold. Love the lead up to a Kerry game and love the rivalry. Feckin hate the defeats and nowadays would see the rivalry as very respectful and aggerssive, which to me is the best rivalry.
Aside from the bolded bit which made me puke a little, would agree. It's a real rivalry and when the draw threw it up it was a bit of added buzz straight away. Despite whatever chip on the shoulder Thronies might have or despite the (largely) imagined sleights against them from Kerry people, we know Tyrone are a serious football county now at every level. And yes, it's a real rivalry, unlike some other so-called rivlaries that are totally one-sided.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 13, 2023, 02:57:58 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 13, 2023, 01:45:07 PM
I have to admit. the Kerry people I know love the rivalry and the passion and anger it brings out in them and their teams. They take losing bad and look for deflection and things they can blame. They are Tyrone people in green and gold. Love the lead up to a Kerry game and love the rivalry. Feckin hate the defeats and nowadays would see the rivalry as very respectful and aggerssive, which to me is the best rivalry.
Aside from the bolded bit which made me puke a little, would agree. It's a real rivalry and when the draw threw it up it was a bit of added buzz straight away. Despite whatever chip on the shoulder Thronies might have or despite the (largely) imagined sleights against them from Kerry people, we know Tyrone are a serious football county now at every level. And yes, it's a real rivalry, unlike some other so-called rivlaries that are totally one-sided.
Mayo Dublin being a prime example.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 11, 2023, 12:41:32 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
I hope Derry hammer them into the ground. If anything it might help them find a new county to be bitter over and help them get over a Tyrone obsession that is going 20 years strong now.
Your having a laugh
The usual resentment from the nordies again lol
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Jack just telling the truth (nearly, obviously.)
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/15/the-monaghan-man-who-brought-the-gaa-to-dublins-north-inner-city/
I'll tell you a story," he says. "Ach, I shouldn't be telling it but I will. I came across a fella by the name of Brother Ennis one time. He was involved in the school in Armagh – this was the late '90s and they were winning McRory Cups and that. Anyway, he brought them over to Boston and we put them up in the basement of the house. There was 29 of them! This is Cormac McAnallen and the boys.
"They were only youngsters at the time "so they couldn't go to the pub – you have to be 21 to drink here. So I says, 'Boys, move the mattresses there and we'll put on a disco.' And they were looking at me going, 'Sure what good is a disco if there's only us at it?' They had a point – so I rang up Au Pairs America and next thing you know, 25 women landed up to the house! That was a great night."
Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:44:51 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 11, 2023, 11:43:57 AM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/2023/07/11/news/derry_on_a_different_level_to_tyrone_says_kerry_boss_jack_o_connor_ahead_of_semi-final_showdown-3424905/
"We're approaching it in a very serious way in the sense that we're expecting a huge battle here, because all the evidence would point to the fact that Derry are better than Tyrone," O'Connor said.
"They've proved that by winning Ulster the last couple of years. They've also beaten Tyrone pretty comprehensively the last two times they met them.
"They're on another level to Tyrone; therefore, we're expecting a huge battle.
Jack with his usual par for the course swipe at Tyrone. Bitter bitter man. These comments, whether they are true or false, and perhaps they are a correct assessment, are hardly standard discourse from a county manager. How often do you see the previous opponent actually named out loud as being of a weaker standard, would the standard cliche'd "were going up a gear now" not have sufficed. I nearly hope Derry bate them.
Jack just telling the truth (nearly, obviously.)
I think this was more a case of getting into Derry heads here.
Tyrone are already beat, and disappearingon Jacks rear view mirror. This is mind games with the incoming contender.
Logan and Dooher seeking a new 3 year term according to the Irish News. Potentially good news for every county bar Tyrone.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 27, 2023, 06:48:54 PM
Logan and Dooher seeking a new 3 year term according to the Irish News. Potentially good news for every county bar Tyrone.
The lack of self awareness in here is breathtaking at times ;D
I'm fully aware of Armagh's situation and my position is extremely clear. I think Dooher & Logan coming back would be a huge mistake mistake for Tyrone. Not that complicated.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 27, 2023, 07:11:07 PM
I'm fully aware of Armagh's situation and my position is extremely clear. I think Dooher & Logan coming back would be a huge mistake mistake for Tyrone. Not that complicated.
I agree 100%
Quote from: bennydorano on July 27, 2023, 07:11:07 PM
I'm fully aware of Armagh's situation and my position is extremely clear. I think Dooher & Logan coming back would be a huge mistake mistake for Tyrone. Not that complicated.
Give it to Geeza and he'll get us back winning McKenna cups, sure what more could ye ask for eh Benny
Very surprised that Logan and Dooher are looking back in especially given the downward trajectory they have been on in the last few years. But will anybody else want the job now that they have put their cards on the table.
Think any management team that delivered AI at u21 and senior level deserves their chance to rebuild
But ultimately it doesn't really matter what us armchair pundits think really
Quote from: sam03/05 on July 28, 2023, 12:09:27 PM
Think any management team that delivered AI at u21 and senior level deserves their chance to rebuild
But ultimately it doesn't really matter what us armchair pundits think really
Can't imagine them not getting the 3 years given their history.
Would be very surprised if there is an All-Ireland win in Tyrone in the next three years.
Might manage an Ulster in that time.
Think Tyrone have to reset their goals somewhat with derrys emergence in recent years. Go full pelt for ulster and anything after that is a bonus. We've slipped down a peg or two in the race for sam
Would a year in Div2 been the worst thing? Or is it better for younger players to be tested against the best?
Done Dublin no harm
They've been able to strengthen their squad this year, I know players have come back in, but they have got more football into younger players
Quote from: smort on July 28, 2023, 04:29:14 PM
Done Dublin no harm
They've been able to strengthen their squad this year, I know players have come back in, but they have got more football into younger players
Dublins squad was mainly strengthen by those that returned. with a lack U20 success it makes me wonder where Dublin will be in the next couple of years once their many 30 year olds move on.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 28, 2023, 08:07:32 PM
Quote from: smort on July 28, 2023, 04:29:14 PM
Done Dublin no harm
They've been able to strengthen their squad this year, I know players have come back in, but they have got more football into younger players
Dublin were no bad team last year. The All Ireland champions beat them by a point in a game that could have gone either way.
I don't see how division 2 improves you.
Very true, only for Niall Scully's head-stagger in the dying embers to swing for that reckless point, giving Kerry the initiative to get the ball down the other end, where Seán Ó Sé delivered that exocet of a free to clinch it.
A county might use a sojourn in Div2 to give the young'uns a try, assuming they were fairly confident of coming straight back up again. I would have liked to see this for us this year.
Dessie didn't really do this though. The young lads typically were subbed in with only a few minutes of a game remaining. Insofar as Dublin have improved this season, it's due to the lads coming back from retirement/injury.