Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
They should make the Ulster Final. There might be a kick in them yet.
If they don't make the final then it will be disappointing. Could be facing 3 teams from division 3 this year
Honestly wouldn't be confident we'd beat Cavan in Breffni, should beat Antrim.
You're hard on yourselves. Cavan wouldn't be anywhere near Armagh's level.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2023, 11:34:58 PM
Honestly wouldn't be confident we'd beat Cavan in Breffni, should beat Antrim.
Cavan lost to Antrim and Fermanagh in Division 3 of the League. Catch yourself on!
Cavan have a huge and talented central seam, and would give any team in Ireland a game if they're focused, and especially if it's inclement weather. If they push up on Armagh's kick outs and force it long, they'll have more than enough ball to win that match.
If they push up on Armagh's kick outs and force it long, they'll have more than enough ball to win that match.
;D ;D
Knowing Armagh they won't reach the Ulster final even though should be capable of beating the pick of Antrim,Donegal,Down,Cavan and then go on to have a better championship than all four and bow out at the All Ireland quarter final stage whereby pushing a top four team all the way in Croke Park.
This thread seems unnecessary. Revisit in June.
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 26, 2023, 11:49:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2023, 11:34:58 PM
Honestly wouldn't be confident we'd beat Cavan in Breffni, should beat Antrim.
Cavan lost to Antrim and Fermanagh in Division 3 of the League. Catch yourself on!
They were already up by that stage
McGeeney's teams play the way he talks.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2023, 11:27:30 PM
Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
Who would you have in instead of McGeeney?
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 26, 2023, 11:49:27 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 26, 2023, 11:34:58 PM
Honestly wouldn't be confident we'd beat Cavan in Breffni, should beat Antrim.
Cavan lost to Antrim and Fermanagh in Division 3 of the League. Catch yourself on!
Wouldn't be reading too much into that as were up already and ran the squad a bit and tried a few positional changes. Final next weekend will show you more where they're at
Sure it's only the league
D2 isn't a big deal.
Armagh will be there or thereabouts at the business end of the championship.
They are a top 8 team. They were rated 6 on the OTB Fuball power rankings last week.
A combination of unfortunate circumstances led to them being relegated.
I haven't been impressed with Armagh at all over the league. For all the obvious talent they have in individual players , they are collectively lesser than the sum of their parts. They play in fits and starts where they look like they could blow teams away and then spend long periods phaffing about, over complicating things. I see them against Monaghan and that summed them up - despite largely dominating the game against a very understrength Monaghan team, they won via a double f**k up from Rory Beggan and were pushed all the way when they really should have been out of sight.
They somehow got a draw against Mayo (and didn't deserve it), played very defensively in next few games trying not to lose and paid the price for it. I think for Cavan a lot will depend on whether Dara McVeety is fit or not. With the way the game is now, McVeety playing from CHB plays a vital role in breaking up play and arriving late for scores. I think Cavan have the players to match up to Armagh and the last two results for them don't matter a whole lot. Could be wrong and next weeks Div 3 final will tell where Cavan are at.
Silly thread. We got relegated. We are not one of the top teams. Disappointing but hardly a mess.
Quote from: An Watcher on March 26, 2023, 11:34:17 PM
If they don't make the final then it will be disappointing. Could be facing 3 teams from division 3 this year
I don't think they'll beat Cavan though will unfortunately likely beat Antrim.
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2023, 09:47:27 AM
Sure it's only the league
D2 isn't a big deal.
Armagh will be there or thereabouts at the business end of the championship.
They are a top 8 team. They were rated 6 on the OTB Fuball power rankings last week.
A combination of unfortunate circumstances led to them being relegated.
Yes it's unfortunate they didn't win more games.
Star will hardly get his bonus now
Honestly thought both Tyrone and Armagh were poor enough yesterday.
Armagh seem to focus on being physical first and playing football second - that's probably a McGeeney thing.
Both teams struggled defensively I thought whilst at the same time not creating that much up front.
Peter Harte was the difference with some monster scores.
With Rian O'neill available Armagh would have probably nicked that game.
I don't think they are in a mess, but I also don't think they are as good as some make them out to be. Top 8-10 is probably about right and on their day could turn anyone over. Just a little too inconsistent so far this year.
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
D2 will be easier next year with Dublin and Derry gone. Meath and Kildare are nothing special. Donegal need a rebuild. Louth and Cork are D2 level. Armagh should be able for Fermanagh and Cavan.
Armagh were beaten in the u20 championship and also beaten in the league by Down on Saturday in u17s.
We are not in a mess. However we had a relatively poor League campaign and I'd be worried that relegation is the start of a downward decline since we have a lot of players around the 30 mark for whom time is running out. In terms of the short term though (this years championship) it's not a complete disaster but you do wonder what the actual plan is as we have lost some of our identity during this years League and despite the denials I don't think morale can be that great after yesterdays relegation.
However I'm still hopeful that if we throw off the shackles that we will have a productive summer and get to an Ulster final at least given that we are in the easier half. But Cavan away from home could be a tricky match. Despite our relegation I still think we are a top 6 side around the same level as Tyrone, Roscommon, Derry but we need to make more use of our best players strengths rather than being too obsessed with stats, defence and team structure. I'd be a bit worried that management are still trying to overthink the gameplan after this length of time in charge. The supporters will respond in kind if they are given something to cheer but the last few months have not been good in that respect.
If you look at the big picture there is only one team in both Leinster and Munster. There are 2 if not 3 in Connacht. Last year there were 2 in Ulster. Tyrone were sleeping. For the quarter finals there are 3 slots for Ulster, say. Who will that be? Armagh will probably be in the mix with Derry and Tyrone.
Armagh aren't in a mess, they are just over hyped and need to lower their expectations. They are a top 8 team, not a top 4 team, so All Ireland 1/4 final and an Ulster final is their realistic target. They just aren't good enough to beat a Galway or a Kerry at the business end.
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2023, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
D2 will be easier next year with Dublin and Derry gone. Meath and Kildare are nothing special. Donegal need a rebuild. Louth and Cork are D2 level. Armagh should be able for Fermanagh and Cavan.
I could easily see Armagh losing 3 or 4 of those games the way they played this year.
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 01:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2023, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
D2 will be easier next year with Dublin and Derry gone. Meath and Kildare are nothing special. Donegal need a rebuild. Louth and Cork are D2 level. Armagh should be able for Fermanagh and Cavan.
I could easily see Armagh losing 3 or 4 of those games the way they played this year.
They lost several matches by 1 or 2 points. D2 is for teams that are less organised. Eg Meath. Armagh should go straight back up.
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 01:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2023, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
D2 will be easier next year with Dublin and Derry gone. Meath and Kildare are nothing special. Donegal need a rebuild. Louth and Cork are D2 level. Armagh should be able for Fermanagh and Cavan.
I could easily see Armagh losing 3 or 4 of those games the way they played this year.
They only lost 4 games this year in Division with much better teams and came close to good teams where they did not win. A continuation of this form would see them win most games in Div 2 as Dublin did this year,
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2023, 11:27:30 PM
Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
A well reasoned and argued contribution, backed up by analysis and facts, with some excellent insights into county management!
Relegation a disappointment for Armagh, but need some perspective. In a very competitive division, Armagh have been blighted by injury (and loss of form in some cases), throughout the league and have been robbing Peter to pay Paul in a number of important positions.
They were competitive in every game, with a score difference of -3. Not taking away from Monaghan's achievement, it may have been different had Mayo something to play for yesterday. But only 4 times in the last 10 years has 5 points been enough to keep you up, so we can have no complaints.
The negativity in the games v Galway and Kerry was disappointing. But in both cases, the opposition was also negative and as I said after the Galway match, it's like a zero sum game. When one team goes that negative now, the other will have to do likewise.
In terms of yesterday's game, it was probably the best Armagh played so far this year, despite some rustiness in the lads coming back from injury. The failure to push up and drive on in the second half manifested itself again after they went ahead with 10 minutes to go. Management must take some responsibility for this, but so too must the players. There needs to be better leadership and decision making on the pitch.
In the last five years, Dublin, Mayo, Roscommon and Galway have all been relegated and each have bounced back quickly and improved. Meanwhile, Kildare, Meath, Cavan, Cork and Down have stayed down. Armagh need to make sure to come back to the top table and they are well equipped to do so.
Finally, for all of the giving out about McGeeney and there has been some fair criticism, I'd be far more concerned about the lack of underage success in Armagh since 2009. The real concern is that the current competitiveness of this team is built on a house of sand and that when the elder statesmen of this team retire, that we haven't many replacements coming through. I think that is why some supporters are losing the run of themselves with impatience: they realise that we have a window to achieve something now, that will start to close in the next 18 months.
Soooooo, is it all Kieran's fault?
What about Kieran and Kieran.
Are they quiet wall flowers that just do what their master says?
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
We haven't had a good underage team in years but have still had a few handy players come through
Armagh roads are in a bigger mess than their gaa county team
Quote from: tonto1888 on March 27, 2023, 08:36:52 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on March 27, 2023, 11:24:21 AM
Getting out of divison 2 won't be handy either! Not a whole pile coming through at underage either.
We haven't had a good underage team in years but have still had a few handy players come through
As long as we have two or three coming through every year then the system is working.
This self flagellation thread looks very fishy. Is it being run out of Tyrone by any chance?
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
no wants to see or admit It just isnt working.
as for a replacement there are loads of armagh guys on the Circut
Mcentee Orourke and Mcconvill of the top of my head . all worh a go
Quote from: rosnarun on March 31, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
no wants to see or admit It just isnt working.
as for a replacement there are loads of armagh guys on the Circut
Mcentee Orourke and Mcconvill of the top of my head . all worh a go
hmmm
Quote from: rosnarun on March 31, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
no wants to see or admit It just isnt working.
as for a replacement there are loads of armagh guys on the Circut
Mcentee Orourke and Mcconvill of the top of my head . all worh a go
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
There is a hole in the bucket.
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 31, 2023, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 31, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
no wants to see or admit It just isnt working.
as for a replacement there are loads of armagh guys on the Circut
Mcentee Orourke and Mcconvill of the top of my head . all worh a go
hmmm
O'Rourke? Are you serious ?
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 31, 2023, 05:06:27 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 31, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Its the Problem of appointing a county Legend as manager .
no wants to see or admit It just isnt working.
as for a replacement there are loads of armagh guys on the Circut
Mcentee Orourke and Mcconvill of the top of my head . all worh a go
hmmm
His spell with Donegal could be his last inter county gig.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on March 27, 2023, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2023, 11:27:30 PM
Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
A well reasoned and argued contribution, backed up by analysis and facts, with some excellent insights into county management!
Well I think 1 Leinster U21 win in 16 years of county management is all the analysis and facts required. I think the fact that he's been in charge of the players that won the 2009 Minor All Ireland but has failed to win a single trophy is also worth taking into account.
Mc Geeney away with immediate effect..
A few random points to make, with apologies to those also on the Orchard Fans forum, who will have heard these before.
The whole issue of Geezer as manager seems to be becoming a major topic of discussion (again) within the County, with most people having a strong opinion on the matter and plenty supporting either side of the debate.
I have no doubt that almost any other manager would have been long gone by now if they had Geezer's record since starting.
A lot of those calling for Geezer's head have a higher opinion of the abilities of our current County Senior Squad than I have. I would have Armagh in and around 8 - 10 in terms of the country, which places us towards the bottom of Division 1 / top of Division 2.
Many of those calling for Geezer's head appear to think that following an All Ireland quarter-final appearance and retention of Division 1 status last year, we should be progressing further this year. For me, it simply does not follow and my sense is that Armagh might have reached their level in 2022, i.e. a top 8 - 10 team.
Our Senior Team's fortunes rely heavily on some influential players who are now reaching veteran status. Murnin, Soupy, Forker and Grugan. I also get a sense that their continued buy in and commitment is down to Geezer's commitment to them as a man manager. I would have worries if Geezer was to go that those players - and others - might call it quits, which would be a significant blow to our fortunes.
In the medium to longer term, I would fear for the future of our County Seniors. The standard of football is terrible in Armagh, and is accurately reflected in the fortunes of our Club Champions at Senior, Intermediate and Junior level and of our County Under 20 and Under 17 squads in Ulster. Last weekend, our Under 20s fell to yet another first round defeat whilst Tyrone were celebrating two underage All Ireland winning teams at Healy Park. The difference in terms of the pool of talent available is light years in distance. It could, and probably should, be argued that Geezer has Armagh boxing way above our weight at the moment.
I'd urge those calling for Geezer's head to be careful what you wish for.
I would expect Armagh to go further than Roscommon and Monaghan.
Quote from: seafoid on April 01, 2023, 02:40:15 PM
I would expect Armagh to go further than Roscommon and Monaghan.
Further in what?
Quote from: seafoid on April 01, 2023, 02:40:15 PM
I would expect Armagh to go further than Roscommon and Monaghan.
I'd say the 3 of us would be happy to reach the Quarter Finals and be competitive there.
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2023, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 01, 2023, 02:40:15 PM
I would expect Armagh to go further than Roscommon and Monaghan.
I'd say the 3 of us would be happy to reach the Quarter Finals and be competitive there.
Indeed, to reach the QFs and draw one of the other!
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2023, 05:13:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on April 01, 2023, 04:40:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 01, 2023, 02:40:15 PM
I would expect Armagh to go further than Roscommon and Monaghan.
I'd say the 3 of us would be happy to reach the Quarter Finals and be competitive there.
Indeed, to reach the QFs and draw one of the other!
Absolutely. Seafóid seems to have a bee in his bonnet with Monaghan.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2023, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on March 27, 2023, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2023, 11:27:30 PM
Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
A well reasoned and argued contribution, backed up by analysis and facts, with some excellent insights into county management!
Well I think 1 Leinster U21 win in 16 years of county management is all the analysis and facts required. I think the fact that he's been in charge of the players that won the 2009 Minor All Ireland but has failed to win a single trophy is also worth taking into account.
"1 Leinster U21win in 16 years of county management is all the analysis and facts required" No its really not!
Don't care what he did or didn't do with Kildare.
Let's look at Armagh. His record in the Ulster championship is poor?
Has he had a team capable of winning an Ulster title?
Breaks my heart to say so but genuinely not.
How many of the current squad would make the team from 1999-2005?
Some would be squad players. No starters.
2009 minor team...how many are available to him. The 1992 minor finalists was in my humble opinion a far better team than the winning team of 2009.
When we were winning Ulster titles for fun and were serious All Ireland contenders we had 5/6 forwards ang one of whom was a match winner on their day.
Do we genuinely have 1 match winner in the squad now?
Armagh are ranked 7th by oddschecker.
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
7th isn't too far off. We were relegated because of the Mayo easing up in the last game, we might have survived. It would hardly be a shock if we reach the quarter finals, but perhaps a surprise if we get past that stage.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2023, 07:51:16 PM
7th isn't too far off. We were relegated because of the Mayo easing up in the last game, we might have survived. It would hardly be a shock if we reach the quarter finals, but perhaps a surprise if we get past that stage.
Before you lose the run of yourself. Mayo are Ranked 3! ::)
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 01, 2023, 08:00:37 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 01, 2023, 07:51:16 PM
7th isn't too far off. We were relegated because of the Mayo easing up in the last game, we might have survived. It would hardly be a shock if we reach the quarter finals, but perhaps a surprise if we get past that stage.
Before you lose the run of yourself. Mayo are Ranked 3! ::)
Which is higher than Monaghan, I expect.
Quote from: seafoid on April 01, 2023, 07:18:03 PM
Armagh are ranked 7th by oddschecker.
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/all-ireland-senior-football-championship/winner
Not rankings but odds based on provincial championship draws. Tyrone,Monaghan,Derry on the opposite side of the draw in Ulster.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on April 01, 2023, 06:48:21 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on April 01, 2023, 03:53:36 AM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on March 27, 2023, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2023, 11:27:30 PM
Holy God,the sooner that robot McGeeney does the decent thing and buggers off, the better. A complete waste of space
A well reasoned and argued contribution, backed up by analysis and facts, with some excellent insights into county management!
Well I think 1 Leinster U21 win in 16 years of county management is all the analysis and facts required. I think the fact that he's been in charge of the players that won the 2009 Minor All Ireland but has failed to win a single trophy is also worth taking into account.
"1 Leinster U21win in 16 years of county management is all the analysis and facts required" No its really not!
Don't care what he did or didn't do with Kildare.
Let's look at Armagh. His record in the Ulster championship is poor?
Has he had a team capable of winning an Ulster title?
Breaks my heart to say so but genuinely not.
How many of the current squad would make the team from 1999-2005?
Some would be squad players. No starters.
2009 minor team...how many are available to him. The 1992 minor finalists was in my humble opinion a far better team than the winning team of 2009.
When we were winning Ulster titles for fun and were serious All Ireland contenders we had 5/6 forwards ang one of whom was a match winner on their day.
Do we genuinely have 1 match winner in the squad now?
The difficulty in defending McGeeney's record is that Cavan and Derry have both come from nowhere to win Ulster the past three years. Neither had better players than Armagh, but had the conviction, belief, energy, discipline to ride the lightning.
——
There's an eerie similarity between current Armagh and Down in the early noughties. Big, loyal following home and away, check. All Ireland winning captain and all round legend as manager, check. Best players in the county committed to same manage, check. Strong forward line with a proper top class 14, check. Everyone wondering if said 14 should play out the field to get him on the ball more, check. Regularly decimated at midfield, check. A mixture of forwards and club standard players in defence, check. Tendency to flatline for long periods of games, conceding 6-8 scores in a row, check. Bouncing in and around D1 league football for years, check. Absolutely useless in the Ulster Championship, check. Club football reduced down to one dominant team and all the rest, check. County underage teams exiting regularly in round 1, check. A string of former county legends willing and ready to take on the management job, but with no particular CV to suggest they'll be an improvement, check.
And so on.
From a Down perspective, things did improve a little after Paddy O'Rourke was moved along. Carr and Kane were not an improvement but the team approached Tyrone differently under them; a monkey off the back. And Wee James by hook or crook built a team from embers to an AI final. But our juvenile production line stopped producing the goods around the same time, and really, Jim Gavin wouldn't have won us an Ulster in the past decade. That's just where we are.