Unusual timing for such a documentary (sat evening) but that's what CH 4 went for in what I thought was an excellent documentary on the Ballymurphy Massacre of 1971, executed by the same parachute regiment that carried out the Bloody Sunday murders.
https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/ballymurphy-massacre-belfast-northern-ireland-troubles-bloody-sunday/
In the immortal words of Arthur Koestler, Kitson and his soldiers were the "scum of the earth".
Great programme.
Does anyone happen to have a link?
The Ballymurphy Precedent is also out in some cinemas.
Quote from: Oraisteach on September 09, 2018, 12:27:59 AM
Does anyone happen to have a link?
It's on Ch4 catch up for the next 4 weeks
There are two smaller scale but well made documentaries on You Tube
both named The Ballymurphy Massacre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOR0Ppfba_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ANOsYa1ZOU
It's shocking stuff.
One of the almost forgotten tragedies of the troubles.
I had never heard of it prior to Saturday night, shocking is an understatement.
I had heard of this a few times and of course knew that innocent people had been killed by the British Army, but until Saturday night i did not know the full extent of it. It was such a hard watch and impossible not to be moved by it.
Fair play to channel 4 for running this. Hopefully this massacre gets all the exposure it deserves and justice is served.
No coincidence that this sort of stuff is coming out now with that weasel bastard Carrington now dead. He was one of the main protagonists in cover ups and a real old school pompous Tory bastard. I worked with people who were directly impacted upon by this and it's horrific what they went through. There won't be any convictions but at least if they are exposed then the truth will release the families a bit from their pain
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
Highjacking of a topic?
I've posted an update of breaking news re the findings in a topic that has been dormant for two years.
The name Jean McConville is a household name in the Free State. The name of Joan Connolly would probably leaved perplexed looks. If you don't want to address those double standards then shame on you.
I hope the Ballymurphy families finally get their justice but it's not the way British do things.
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
it's hardly 'hijacking' to give an update on a topic that's in the news today ffs.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 26, 2021, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
it's hardly 'hijacking' to give an update on a topic that's in the news today ffs.
He did it to have a dig at the "sanctimonious free staters" ffs, he's like a child
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 06:53:48 PM
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 26, 2021, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
it's hardly 'hijacking' to give an update on a topic that's in the news today ffs.
He did it to have a dig at the "sanctimonious free staters" ffs, he's like a child
And?
You think the Free State will demand justice for the families of Ballymurphy with the same vigour they do victims of the IRA?
Hopefully the victims get some justice but your outage is absolutely embarrassing. You are utterly pathetic.
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 26, 2021, 06:17:30 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 26, 2021, 05:17:01 PM
Quote from: Angelo on March 26, 2021, 04:44:05 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ballymurphy-inquest-findings-to-be-published-in-belfast-in-may-1.4521079
Findings due in May.
50 years on and the families still searching for justice and you still have the sanctimonious Free Staters telling us to suck it up.
Nice hijacking of a topic, I'm sure you are in a bother about the Ballymurphy families
it's hardly 'hijacking' to give an update on a topic that's in the news today ffs.
Fr Hugh Mullan is from Portaferry and I'd know a few of his family. They'll not get justice but at least the story is being told and once again it was barbarism by those in British Army uniforms.
Big day today.
Hopefully some justice for the families but we've been here before and we know the British government will do everything in their power to suppress the truth.
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 09:09:44 AM
Big day today.
Hopefully some justice for the families but we've been here before and we know the British government will do everything in their power to suppress the truth.
They'll give with one hand in a court in Belfast and take with the other with the Queens speech in Westminster..
Be interesting how they spin the Westminster thing as it's also an amnesty for every combatant and not just soldiers and police..
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
https://twitter.com/FinucaneCentre/status/1392098882193137664
@FinucaneCentre 'All entirely innocent' #Ballymurphy #BallymurphyMassacre
50 years it took to acknowledge what the victims families have always known.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family? to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family? to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?
What sort of chance had any nationalist of justice pre GFA?
Bloody Sunday
Majella O'Hare
Aidan McAnespie
Paddy McElhone
Ballymurphy
etc
etc
All cold blooded murders of civilians committed by the British state that took 40-50 years for the British State to acknowledge what they were.
It's an emotional day for the families (those of whom are still around) to finally hear this but it's beyond shocking it took so long.
I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. - as if it took the people 30 odd years to know a crime had been committed. They knew that day ffs
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family? to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?
Maybe from 1998 people could have started seeing it for what it was? It was always a state sponsored killing spree, the naming of it is irrelevant.
Your response simply backs up what is often said. No where did I mention 'scummy free staters' but I will categorically point the finger at the fact that I personally was treated differently by people who were born on the same island as me, who purport to have the same ideological or at least a similar ideology to me in that we perceive ourselves to all be Irish, yet there is either and antipathy or worse still in the case of some, a downright dislike for nationalist/republicans from the north. Successive governments have continued to tip their hats to London when it comes to atrocities in the north, and the south when you consider the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, yet people in the MSM simply point the fingers at SF and castigate them.
Today is another example of how ordinary, normal people in this small pet of our island were targeted by state sponsored killers. They committed war crimes and should face sanctions as a result. They won't. Does that sit well with you and should the Irish government support citizens of this island that they would hope to one day rule, or are they happy to leave us to our own devices like they have done for the last 100 years?
Quote from: An Watcher on May 11, 2021, 02:24:33 PM
I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. - as if it took the people 30 odd years to know a crime had been committed. They knew that day ffs
Obviously the families knew their family member was murdered on that night, is that what you're struggling to expresss?
How long did it take the families to recognise that it was a concerted masssacre and start a campaign for justice? The news report claimed it started in 1998
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family? to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?
Maybe from 1998 people could have started seeing it for what it was? It was always a state sponsored killing spree, the naming of it is irrelevant.
Your response simply backs up what is often said. No where did I mention 'scummy free staters' but I will categorically point the finger at the fact that I personally was treated differently by people who were born on the same island as me, who purport to have the same ideological or at least a similar ideology to me in that we perceive ourselves to all be Irish, yet there is either and antipathy or worse still in the case of some, a downright dislike for nationalist/republicans from the north. Successive governments have continued to tip their hats to London when it comes to atrocities in the north, and the south when you consider the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, yet people in the MSM simply point the fingers at SF and castigate them.
Today is another example of how ordinary, normal people in this small pet of our island were targeted by state sponsored killers. They committed war crimes and should face sanctions as a result. They won't. Does that sit well with you and should the Irish government support citizens of this island that they would hope to one day rule, or are they happy to leave us to our own devices like they have done for the last 100 years?
The adjective scummy was my description of the attitudes of those southern people you referred to
In the time scale of events, it is significant that the Ballymurphy massacre was not publicly known as a massacre even in the North until 1998. By that time it had become a legacy event to southerners something that happened from the past to be put behind us. I would even hazard a guess that many nordies on this board were not aware of the extent of the details of the masssacre until viewing that C4 documentary. For myself I was not aware of the piece by piece account until I stumbled upon some documentaries on You Tube a few years ago.
Thankfully what everyone knew has been legally stated now.
So, since the ten people killed were entirely innocent, that means state forces were entirely guilty.
So, this is only the beginning. Those who murdered them are guilty, and need to face court/sentencing.
But, like Bloody Sunday, I won't be holding my breath for that.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: Main Street on May 11, 2021, 02:02:21 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
110% correct. Will never be justice for the innocent.
That's all well and good to point fingers at scummy free staters but at what time in history was the Ballymurphy massacre recognised as a massacre? I heard a news report on RTE this morning that the 'family victims' came together almost by accident when attending a Forgotten Victims event, part of the West Belfast festival in 1998 and they only connected the similarities and timing of the murders when one by one each of the families gave account of the murders. Up to that point the murdered were stigmatised as being IRA members, including a priest on his way to render last rites to one of the murdered.
And from that time onwards the campaign for justice began in earnest.
If one is to talk about justice, what is the first major step in that process for for a family? to have the murdered cleared of all stigma and declared not just innocent but murdered in cold blood?
Maybe from 1998 people could have started seeing it for what it was? It was always a state sponsored killing spree, the naming of it is irrelevant.
Your response simply backs up what is often said. No where did I mention 'scummy free staters' but I will categorically point the finger at the fact that I personally was treated differently by people who were born on the same island as me, who purport to have the same ideological or at least a similar ideology to me in that we perceive ourselves to all be Irish, yet there is either and antipathy or worse still in the case of some, a downright dislike for nationalist/republicans from the north. Successive governments have continued to tip their hats to London when it comes to atrocities in the north, and the south when you consider the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, yet people in the MSM simply point the fingers at SF and castigate them.
Today is another example of how ordinary, normal people in this small pet of our island were targeted by state sponsored killers. They committed war crimes and should face sanctions as a result. They won't. Does that sit well with you and should the Irish government support citizens of this island that they would hope to one day rule, or are they happy to leave us to our own devices like they have done for the last 100 years?
Great post.
You go over to the Indo thread and you see it so explicitly from the likes of Rossfan, Hound, Clonadmad and Mouview.
The same chaps are happy to defend those who committed sectarian murder in their name but want to lecture others then on similar incidents.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 11, 2021, 03:01:58 PM
So, since the ten people killed were entirely innocent, that means state forces were entirely guilty.
So, this is only the beginning. Those who murdered them are guilty, and need to face court/sentencing.
But, like Bloody Sunday, I won't be holding my breath for that.
The Coroner seems to have done a superb job. Pulled no punches. Obscene massacre.
No doubt orders from on high to shoot on sight!
Listen to radio Ulster now. Families speaking. Heart wrenching
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Great post. The dismissive comments from unionism and supporters of British forces is one thing but from fellow Irish people is very saddening.
The f**king Parachute Regiment according to an Irish Times piece.
Wonder how many of the same boys were in Derry on Bloody Sunday?
Quote from: GJL on May 11, 2021, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Great post. The dismissive comments from unionism and supporters of British forces is one thing but from fellow Irish people is very saddening.
Absolutely 💯
At least its out there in the open now, gutless cowardly British soldiers sniping and "murdering" innocent civilian is the reality of what happened. What incredible people the families of the victims are, who kept going to get to where we are today. I hope they take millions of the brits in civil cases now.
This is not a surprise, irrespective of what happened today everyone knows these people were innocent. At least people around the world will now know the truth. What is almost worse than the shootings is the treatment these people received in the immediate aftermath. Disgusting behaviour that some of the relatives mentioned today. This from what was supposed to be one of the greatest armies in the world. I think not, hang your head in shame.
Listening to sport radio in England earlier, of course they just had to say "killed when the army were involved in a gun battle with the IRA" ... scumbags of the highest order
Quote from: tiempo on May 11, 2021, 09:57:00 PM
Listening to sport radio in England earlier, of course they just had to say "killed when the army were involved in a gun battle with the IRA" ... scumbags of the highest order
What station was that? Dreadful and should be reported.
Today shows the value of proper public inquiries. Criminal trials are going to be near impossible even before the proposed legislation gets passed but no reason why more of this type of inquiry can't be progressed whilst there is still time
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 11, 2021, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Great post. The dismissive comments from unionism and supporters of British forces is one thing but from fellow Irish people is very saddening.
Absolutely 💯
A few great posts this last couple of pages BCB. Fair play.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on May 12, 2021, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 11, 2021, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Great post. The dismissive comments from unionism and supporters of British forces is one thing but from fellow Irish people is very saddening.
Absolutely 💯
A few great posts this last couple of pages BCB. Fair play.
As we now apparently have three identities on this island now, Irish, British and Northern Irish ... I'd add a fourth as well i.e. the Irish British ... like it or not folks there are some in the south who are swayed by British media, are anti-northern, who deny the nationalist struggle in the north, who have anti-northern sentiments towards nationalists from the north. I received that same treatment from a minority, of supposedly well educated people whilst working in the south .... snide northern comments were never far away. So when it comes to showing support for a northern massacre, that is just too much to ask of some south of the border, and many of whom are in the political elite. It does not suit the FF/FG narrative to proactively reference British atrocities in the north, nor does it suit the national broadcaster to be doing so ... oh no, we can't be highlighting that, no smoke without fire, they surely weren't shot for no reason .... they should hang their heads in shame!
It was powerful to see Colum Eastwood read the names of the victims in the HOC yesterday and state that they were entirely innocent.
Quote from: balladmaker on May 12, 2021, 08:28:38 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on May 12, 2021, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: Dire Ear on May 11, 2021, 06:52:00 PM
Quote from: GJL on May 11, 2021, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
I know some had a cut across Angelo earlier in the thread but he is absolutely right about the lack of knowledge of this massacre in the minds of many. This was a massacre, an unadulterated massacre. The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims. I'll be honest it is part of the revisionism of history of the Troubles that sickens me. The lack of empathy and understanding from many quarters of what happened up here is astounding. I think about it now and then and realise what we grew up in and think how could someone a few miles down the road dismiss it? And they did as I often found out as a teenager playing schools football and being called an orange, Nordie, Brit bastard.
The hierarchy of victims in the eyes of the media sickens my hole. The British army murder 11 innocent people nearly 50 years ago. Each one who pulled a trigger that day and each commanding officer over them is guilty of a war crime and should be tried accordingly. I would love to hear my fellow 'Irish men' call that out
Great post. The dismissive comments from unionism and supporters of British forces is one thing but from fellow Irish people is very saddening.
Absolutely 💯
A few great posts this last couple of pages BCB. Fair play.
As we now apparently have three identities on this island now, Irish, British and Northern Irish ... I'd add a fourth as well i.e. the Irish British ... like it or not folks there are some in the south who are swayed by British media, are anti-northern, who deny the nationalist struggle in the north, who have anti-northern sentiments towards nationalists from the north. I received that same treatment from a minority, of supposedly well educated people whilst working in the south .... snide northern comments were never far away. So when it comes to showing support for a northern massacre, that is just too much to ask of some south of the border, and many of whom are in the political elite. It does not suit the FF/FG narrative to proactively reference British atrocities in the north, nor does it suit the national broadcaster to be doing so ... oh no, we can't be highlighting that, no smoke without fire, they surely weren't shot for no reason .... they should hang their heads in shame!
When we were first able to get a TV that picked up RTE when I was in my mid teens, late 80's or so I was shocked at how RTE news represented the news from here. This was the time when Sinn Feín members voices couldn't be heard on the TV, apart from the stupidity of dubbing over the voices and what that was meant to achieve the slant of the bulletins was slightly at odds with my perception of what was happening based on what older ones in the community would tell you of their experiences working in areas a lot more impacted than our area..
That lack of understanding of what was happening up here was re-enforced when you'd go to concerts in the south, or games and get talking to people from the likes of Cork, or Dublin or wherever and they'd no understanding at all. I'd a Cork girl ask me who the fenians were, she was a looker I was trying to suck the face off so tolerated her in her moment of weakness.
On Fr Mullan, he's from my part of the world and my dad would have known him and his family and we were talking about it last night and he said two things, the family were asked would it be OK for the army to escort his body down to his family in Portaferry, the brazen fúckers, the mother told them on no uncertain terms what to do with themselves.. and also Bishop Philbin didn't cover himself in glory at the time and never came out in support of Fr Mullan which is staggering but unsurprising as both he and Cathal Daly were British apologists..
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
And that sums it up....even Stephen f**king Nolan is on their side this morning, though he is playing to the crowd
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
Won't be long before Lickspittle Leo proposes a day of remembrance for the paratroopers. w**ker.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 12, 2021, 10:58:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
Won't be long before Lickspittle Leo proposes a day of remembrance for the paratroopers. w**ker.
With Chuck Flanagan swinging in behind him....
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 12, 2021, 11:17:39 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 12, 2021, 10:58:11 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
Won't be long before Lickspittle Leo proposes a day of remembrance for the paratroopers. w**ker.
With Chuck Flanagan swinging in behind him....
Says it all that Arlene has made a respectable statement on the matter yet Leo does not see it as important enough to comment on.
For me FF/FG are as bad if not worse than unionism.
Happy to play politics, to use victims as pawns, to undermine justice for families and they do this with a conflict that had no direct impact on them.
The Free State government have actively thwarted the McAnespie family in their quest for justice and then why will roll out IRA victims in the pretence they are looking for justice. I don't know how someone like Armaghniac can consistently defend the likes of FF/FG on here.
I'm not sure what I am supposed to have said, the record of the Free state government on Ballymurphy is not good, and it is not just an anti nordie thing, they did nothing for the victims of the Dublin bombings either.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 11, 2021, 09:59:55 AM
The MSM in the south routinely bring out the names of Jean McConville, the treatment of Maria Cahill and the death of Paul Quinn but I have rarely, if ever, heard much support for the families of the Ballymurphy victims.
The Tanaiste, Leo Varadkar (the man who referred to FG having an "overseas branch" in Belfast) has still not made any response to yesterdays Ballymurphy findings. A quick search of his contributions to Dáil debates in his time as a TD shows that he has repeatedly brought up things like the Enniskillen Bombing etc, but has not once, in his entire Dáíl career, spoken about Bloody Sunday or Ballymurphy.
If there is no positive PR spin or political capital to be gained from it, then it's not worth doing in Leo's eyes.
It's rarely ever about simply doing the right thing with him, it's simply about being seen to do the right thing.
He's usually fairly opportunist on these things so mustn't see any opportunity in it for himself to say anything.
Quote from: Angelo on May 12, 2021, 11:24:44 AM
For me FF/FG are as bad if not worse than unionism.
Happy to play politics, to use victims as pawns, to undermine justice for families and they do this with a conflict that had no direct impact on them.
The Free State government have actively thwarted the McAnespie family in their quest for justice and then why will roll out IRA victims in the pretence they are looking for justice. I don't know how someone like Armaghniac can consistently defend the likes of FF/FG on here.
At least Unionists are plain and open about their anti Irish, pro Britishness which is absolutely fair enough. What you see is what you get. With the West Brits in the 26 and the Tories the only sure thing is that you can't trust them.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0519/1222582-ballymurphy/
Quote from: Rossfan on May 19, 2021, 01:31:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0519/1222582-ballymurphy/
"On behalf of successive governments, and to put on the record in this House, I'd like to say sorry to their families for how the investigations were handled, for the pain they've endured since their campaign began almost five decades ago."
That is not an apology for the murder by British Soldiers of 10 innocent civilians as I read it, more the inadequacy of the subsequent investigations.
The families should tell him to stuff it and don't start my on thon Cork lickspittle and his "situation".
In fact I've just watched it back there and he never mentioned once that they were murdered by the British Army but sure Claire Hanna thinks that's a good enough apology FFS.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 01:36:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 19, 2021, 01:31:31 PM
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0519/1222582-ballymurphy/
"On behalf of successive governments, and to put on the record in this House, I'd like to say sorry to their families for how the investigations were handled, for the pain they've endured since their campaign began almost five decades ago."
That is not an apology for the murder by British Soldiers of 10 innocent civilians as I read it, more the inadequacy of the subsequent investigations.
The families should tell him to stuff it and don't start my on thon Cork lickspittle and his "situation".
Shocking ... he couldn't even get the apology right! As you say, he isn't apologising for the actual murders in that text.
Like a child caught with his hand in the biscuit tin.
Pathetic. But, did we expect anything less? The British establishment, absolutely rotten to the core.