https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-mayo-now-on-a-familiar-but-unforgiving-road-1.3494910
The other important element is the dink-ball, as I call it, with the third man runner off it; that kicked pass inside bouncing in front of the receiving player is hugely important. It was a massive strategy for Jack O'Connor's All-Ireland winning Kerry teams and I feel it has become a central element of Dublin's game. And this is important. Dublin don't just want players supporting the ball in an ad-hoc way. In my opinion, it is a requirement of management that three players be involved in every attack. In other words, nothing happens in isolation.
In coaching speak, they play in pods. Dublin play in pods of three; the kicker, the man who wins the ball and, crucially, the third man runner. If you go back to Sunday's game in Castlebar, that is where the Galway goal came from. If you go Ballybofey, that is where the Cavan goal came from. Why is it so important as a tactic? For me, it is because it plays on human nature. We are naturally programmed to anticipate danger. All eyes are drawn to the man kicking the ball and the man catching it. These are the primary threats. The reality is that nobody thinks about the third man runner. If we are being honest - hands on heart - certainly from my point of view watching the game and, I imagine, everyone in the ground, who among us saw Johnny Heaney's first steps and said: oh, there's a goal on here. People watch the players on the ball and then this strike runner comes from nowhere. By the time you identify that he is the threat, it is too late. And I think this is a primary reason Dublin have been so successful.
And trust me: it is very hard to cancel out. Even if you know that the player you are marking is a strike runner, it is very hard. In Donegal we put a huge emphasis on 'anticipate the anticipator.' But from four years of age, players are thought to focus on the man on the ball. Your attention is drawn to what you perceive as being the threat and is about to hurt you. The third man runner - the real danger - can be 15 metres away, about to take off. For me, it is the most difficult attack to defend against in Gaelic football.
I found that very interesting. It was a much better column than McGuinness normally comes out with. Of course, he might be inclined to try a bit harder since the China gig went wallop. Looking forward to seeing if he keeps it up now over the summer.
After yesterday will people need to revise their take on Jimmy McGuinness's tactics?
He had no ability to change plan when Kerry got on top.
Well if one team in history have that dink ball its Kerry, so he must have forgotten his own advice.
They were done twice with short kick passes into Geaney and D Clifford. Then down the far end they were trying to get those balls into Murphy but he couldn't gather. In one case the Kerry defender blasted through him and tore up the field.
I wouldn't mind if they went proper old scholl they could have let in high to Murphy where he would have an advantage. He was barking in instructions all day, but not sure how he could look at the lack of contact or press and not see it wasn't working.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 28, 2025, 04:55:16 PMWell if one team in history have that dink ball its Kerry, so he must have forgotten his own advice.
They were done twice with short kick passes into Geaney and D Clifford. Then down the far end they were trying to get those balls into Murphy but he couldn't gather. In one case the Kerry defender blasted through him and tore up the field.
I wouldn't mind if they went proper old scholl they could have let in high to Murphy where he would have an advantage. He was barking in instructions all day, but not sure how he could look at the lack of contact or press and not see it wasn't working.
Tried a couple into Murphy I thought but they were brutal and there was one he didn't even attempt to go for.
Ah sure he doesn't have the legs for those little passes and as I said the Kerry boys ran round and through him. The aerial threat was still an option but they never lashed any in. Christ they had a template from the 2012 final when he buried one!
Was there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point, one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
Speaking to a Donegal man at half time and he was convinced they were told not to. I mentioned elsewhere O'Baoill had space where he could have ran up and pulled the trigger but he just slowed down and strolled up to the arc. Like they can kick them, but not ever try for one or two...
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point, one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
You can't just move any free outside the arc to go for a 2pointer.
That's only allowed for frees awarded when ref brings the ball up 50m e.g. breach of the 3-up rule.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point, one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
You need to reread the FRC new rules guidelines
McGuinness has never looked as flustered on the sideline ever before.
Visible panic and anxiety, even in the first half.
Looked absolutely shell shocked in the RTE interview after.
In all of Kerrys dominance, Donegal brought it back to 4 and had possibly 3 easy enough chances to reduce the lead further...and that was with them not playing well
whilst kerry was excellent on the day, donegal will regret not really having a go..the biggest surprise for me was their lack of pace on the attack, it was too slow and predictable...
Conor O'Donnell was the only man who really went at pace at the kerry defence
is there another year in Murphy, McBrearty and mchugh ???
long way back considering the regime Jim runs....
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point,[/b] one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
What? He wouldn't have been allowed to take the ball out for a 2 pointer free, no rule to say you can unless the ball has been moved inside the arc for dissent. If the foul is inside you can only kick 1 pointer.
Quote from: Onthe40 on July 28, 2025, 05:31:57 PMIn all of Kerrys dominance, Donegal brought it back to 4 and had possibly 3 easy enough chances to reduce the lead further...and that was with them not playing well
whilst kerry was excellent on the day, donegal will regret not really having a go..the biggest surprise for me was their lack of pace on the attack, it was too slow and predictable...
Conor O'Donnell was the only man who really went at pace at the kerry defence
is there another year in Murphy, McBrearty and mchugh ???
long way back considering the regime Jim runs....
Exactly. McGuiness relies on total commitment and brutal training. If he doesnt win it within first 3 years he won't as players arent able to keep up the demands
Quote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point, one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
Donegal no two pointer yesterday from three attempts. Kerry scored 5 two pointers from 12 attempts. Both in the semi final scored 1 two pointer each.
Thompson going off was a blow as he is good for a few 2 pointers. Donegal had the wind in second half and made no difference.
With 10 minutes left and it's clear you won't close the deficit with singles, you have to start taking risks with 2 point attempts. Donegal never did.
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 28, 2025, 05:41:32 PMQuote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point,[/b] one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
What? He wouldn't have been allowed to take the ball out for a 2 pointer free, no rule to say you can unless the ball has been moved inside the arc for dissent. If the foul is inside you can only kick 1 pointer.
Has anybody a link to the explicit details of the new rules? I've not seen anything other than the brochure type summary. Why for example, can you pull your free back outside the arc when it was awarded for dissent only?
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 28, 2025, 06:43:23 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on July 28, 2025, 05:41:32 PMQuote from: johnnycool on July 28, 2025, 05:07:55 PMWas there a conscious decision by Donegal not to kick 2 pointers?
There were at least two occasions in the second half that Murphy had frees just inside the 40M D and rather than take a step or two outside the D to get the 2 points he took the 1 point,[/b] one in particular was pretty central and he put it over with plenty to spare, the other was the time Paul Murphy played the ball before it had left the 20 metre line from a kick out and was very tight angled so maybe more understandable.
I don't think Donegal scored any 2 pointers and maybe only went for one of two the whole day.
What? He wouldn't have been allowed to take the ball out for a 2 pointer free, no rule to say you can unless the ball has been moved inside the arc for dissent. If the foul is inside you can only kick 1 pointer.
Has anybody a link to the explicit details of the new rules? I've not seen anything other than the brochure type summary. Why for example, can you pull your free back outside the arc when it was awarded for dissent only?
Only if it was originally for a foul outside the arc and it was moved up. Otherwise every half decent free taker would take every free back out
Because, if you were awarded a free outside the arc, you have a chance of scoring a 2 pointer. Dissent would lead to the free being moved inside the arc which is only a 1 pointer. Therefore taking an opportunity for a bigger score away from you. So you have the choice in that case.
And of course, if it was the last kick of the game and you were 2 points down, it would encourage dissent.
Plus if you clearly break the 3 up / back rule you can take it outside the 40m arc
Quote from: nrico2006 on July 28, 2025, 06:43:23 PMHas anybody a link to the explicit details of the new rules? I've not seen anything other than the brochure type summary. Why for example, can you pull your free back outside the arc when it was awarded for dissent only?
https://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/rules-regulations
Pat Spillane having another cut at McGuinness and McGeeeney. You get the scutters listening to the lad. All smug with kerry winning All around them. He must have dirt on something that he broadcast all his drivel.
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/pat-spillane-the-caveman-tactics-of-the-past-that-operated-in-gaelic-football-are-now-like-the-dodo-extinct/a1425653003.html?fbclid=Iwb21leAP3SWZjbGNrA_dJXGV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHiJ8hixJNCIgD55dzZ3DO-vz6sLq4sHQZhUQqKwrbuOvDn5-AVUloWA4rYSJ_aem_bRARwvH8U-B0ZXyiYj8-lA
Does anyone pay heed to Spillane. He jas been irrelevant for a long time.
He stays relevant not because many people read him because they find him interesting or illuminating, or even entertaining, but to wind themselves up and prove their point to themselves that he is a p***k. Perversely, that keeps him relevant, and when you apply that across the board in media, it ensures a depressingly high proportion of low standards.
Does he respect anybody outside of Kerry?