I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
The methods of hiding the bias have got better but it's still there.
Quote from: The Subbie on October 01, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
The methods of hiding the bias have got better but it's still there.
I think so too. RTE is a key part of the status quo.
One thing that is different is that there doesn't seem to be any affable unionist on telly these days like Ken Maginnis 20 years ago.
The Indo group also ensure nobody steps out of line.
There is no need for an affable unionist to step up to the plate on rte & reassure everyone that it's all themmuns, there is an entire cohort of Demi unionists falling over each other to do it for rte, most of them seem to hang round the canteen in donnybrook hoping for the tap on the shoulder to trot out a different varient of the same aul sh1te to align with the story de jour.
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South.Both parts of the island sadly move further apart in terms of culture and outlook.For example Catholicism is still very strong in the North but almost extinct in the south.We are practically different peoples now sadly
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
Ken Maginnis "affable". That's a new one!
He sure is! I've been in his company a few times and he can (could?) crack jokes, risque ones at that, with the best of 'em.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South.Both parts of the island sadly move further apart in terms of culture and outlook.For example Catholicism is still very strong in the North but almost extinct in the south.We are practically different peoples now sadly
Tony , Nordies are just as sloppy, as weak on attention to detail and as suspicious of authority as people down South ;)
It doesn't really matter how much BBC you Watch, culture goes far deeper than telly or flags
I would argue there is a greater similarity of culture between London and Dublin than South and North.Greed,right wing government,atheism,underclass
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:58:02 PM
I would argue there is a greater similarity of culture between London and Dublin than South and North.Greed,right wing government,atheism,underclass
London also has jellied eels
England is less sure of itself, hostile to the EU, more private, a bit more organised, "straight", will answer questions with "yes" or "no", doesn't think in minority terms, militaristic, less friendly.
Which of these would be shared with Northern catholics ?
The irony now is that generally speaking Nothern Protestants and Catholics respectively have very little in common, culturally with either the UK or the South,yet paradoxically they still owe unflinching allegiance to London or Dublin.
Hence my contention that the best way forward now is to develop a new common Northern Irish identity shedding the toxic and obsolete unionist and nationalist dimensions.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 04:45:39 PM
The irony now is that generally speaking Nothern Protestants and Catholics respectively have very little in common, culturally with either the UK or the South,yet paradoxically they still owe unflinching allegiance to London or Dublin.
Hence my contention that the best way forward now is to develop a new common Northern Irish identity shedding the toxic and obsolete unionist and nationalist dimensions.
Outline how the school history books would look
I recommend you read Patrick Murphy today in Irish News.He explains how Ireland twice ceded sovereignty,to EEC in 1973 and to the British in 1998,and places the blame on the Brexit implications firmly on the shoulder of so called Nationalist parties North and South,who agreed that Britain has a right to rule the North.Hard to argue with that.
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2016, 03:15:15 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
Ken Maginnis "affable". That's a new one!
He sure is! I've been in his company a few times and he can (could?) crack jokes, risque ones at that, with the best of 'em.
Nasty f**ker in my experience which is personal too
Totally agree. Lets not forget he was a Major in the UDR, who rank below Auschwitz Guards as Military murderers.
Quote from: Windmill abu on October 01, 2016, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 06:01:38 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on October 01, 2016, 03:15:15 PM
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
Ken Maginnis "affable". That's a new one!
He sure is! I've been in his company a few times and he can (could?) crack jokes, risque ones at that, with the best of 'em.
Nasty f**ker in my experience which is personal too
Totally agree. Lets not forget he was a Major in the UDR, who rank below Auschwitz Guards as Military murderers.
And he has a penchant for pulling down the Irish Tricolour
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
I have always felt betrayal, bias and exclusion by certain elements of the south. The most disgusting, insulting and sickening aspect is that the North is managed under foreign policy. Thankful for the GAA - at least they didn't turn their back on us.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb2bz39fXSQ
RTE television was only widely available in the North in the early 80s.Visual has much more influence than audio.It brought home that the North went largely ignored on the Southern media and if it was alluded to it certainly wasnt favourable to Northern Catholics.
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 12:19:35 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on October 01, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
The methods of hiding the bias have got better but it's still there.
I think so too. RTE is a key part of the status quo.
One thing that is different is that there doesn't seem to be any affable unionist on telly these days like Ken Maginnis 20 years ago.
The Indo group also ensure nobody steps out of line.
Maginnis was not and is not an affable unionist. He appeared affable only because those that you might compare him with. And he was a solid supported of the Ireland Rugby team.
There are loads of affable unionists on TV. Some are politicians (Danny Kinahan, Doug Beattie and the Alliance party)
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South.Both parts of the island sadly move further apart in terms of culture and outlook.For example Catholicism is still very strong in the North but almost extinct in the south.We are practically different peoples now sadly
I would contend that it is impossible o argue that Catholicism is strong on NI.
What is happening attendences? Of those that do attend how many follow catholic dogma on attending confessions, not using contraception, no riding before marriage??
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2016, 09:09:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
I have always felt betrayal, bias and exclusion by certain elements of the south. The most disgusting, insulting and sickening aspect is that the North is managed under foreign policy. Thankful for the GAA - at least they didn't turn their back on us.
Where else would it be managed?
Does anybody in the south seriously want to pay for a whole government department dedicated solely to RoI's limited role in the affairs of NI?????
Smelmoth your questions are impossible to answer.But Catholicism in the North is far stronger than it is in the South.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 08:59:55 AM
Smelmoth your questions are impossible to answer.But Catholicism in the North is far stronger than it is in the South.
How would you measure it?
Mass attendance,relative importance of catholic schools,significant level of dissatisfaction with Northern Nationalist political parties in failing to defend Catholic teaching,vibrant St Vincent De Paul,Kinights of Columbanus societies?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
Mass attendance,relative importance of catholic schools,significant level of dissatisfaction with Northern Nationalist political parties in failing to defend Catholic teaching,vibrant St Vincent De Paul,Kinights of Columbanus societies?
You think this is the job of politicians? And at the same time you think the future is in a "shared identity" in a "new Northern Ireland"?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
Mass attendance,relative importance of catholic schools,significant level of dissatisfaction with Northern Nationalist political parties in failing to defend Catholic teaching,vibrant St Vincent De Paul,Kinights of Columbanus societies?
Sectarian schools in a dysfunctional education system prove nothing. SVP is strong in Mexico too.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
Mass attendance
Is this strong? Are attendance levels holding up?
Are attendance levels a measure of strength? i.e. are the attendees actually practicing catholic doctrine or do they show up on a sunday?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
relative importance of catholic schools
??????? Catholic schools seem pretty important in the south. In the north they seem more ethnic or cultural (i.e. what sports they play in PE and competitively) rather than anything to do with faith. Most of my friends are atheist or agnostic yet most of their kids went to or go to catholic maintained schools.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
significant level of dissatisfaction with Northern Nationalist political parties in failing to defend Catholic teaching
Has this contention been recently bestowed upon you from the anus of a sexually mature male bovine or are you going to actually back it up with some evidence?? I have a funny feeling its the former
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
vibrant St Vincent De Paul
More vibrant in the north than anywhere else? Anyway why can't SVP and Barnados get their shit together and merge. They could achieve so much more and that is surely their purpose??
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 12:27:56 PM
Kinights of Columbanus?
Presumably rhetorical as well as mis-spelt?
I was asked to provide evidence of how vibrant Catholicism is in the North as opposed to the South,which I believe I've genuinely done.
Er 1981 is the early 80s
Quote from: AQMP on October 01, 2016, 02:54:27 PM
Ken Maginnis "affable". That's a new one!
He wasn't too affable when he was getting his pan knocked in the Chinese in Dungannon by a man half his size
Funny that,it wasn't even available in Belfast and N Antrim until Sky digital.Portadown is less than 30 miles from Carlingford and the whole area, (and presumably all of East and Mid Ulster) didn't get access to RTE until the early 80s.
Nonsense. It was available in belfast and north antrim long long before sky digital.
I seem to recall not too long ago,complaints from SDLP about inaction from the British government to facilitate RTE reception in various areas of the North
There are a couple of blind spots with the digital. Analogue was available long before sky digital in the likes of north antrim and i think belfast.
(I don't think they are small blind spots mind you and that needs improved)
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
I was asked to provide evidence of how vibrant Catholicism is in the North as opposed to the South,which I believe I've genuinely done.
another matter of faith.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2016, 07:54:12 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
I was asked to provide evidence of how vibrant Catholicism is in the North as opposed to the South,which I believe I've genuinely done.
another matter of faith.
I'm not sure this "evidence" wouod stand up in court ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 02, 2016, 07:17:09 PM
Nonsense. It was available in belfast and north antrim long long before sky digital.
One of my happiest memories is watching (black and white) all-ireland hurling finals in the seventies in Armoy (North Antrim). In fairness all the neighbours were in to watch the match so not everyone had rte but back then not every house had a TV. By the 1980s every house in Armoy could watch the Sunday game
Yes my original point stands.It was the 1980s before RTE TV was widely accessible in the North
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 11:44:38 PM
Yes my original point stands.It was the 1980s before RTE TV was widely accessible in the North
RTE ignores the North. They never talk about the courts for example
State telly is used to build the national memory and the North is excluded from that. Of course you have a few exceptions but it is not inclusive.
What is it like watching RTE in the north? .
I always thought BBC NI was not serious. How could bigging up the 6 counties be serious?
Both stations serve and reflect their prime constituencies and licence payers (RTE has no licence payers in the North,and the people of the South are and always have been indifferent to the North).I can't fault either broadcaster to be honest.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2016, 07:23:00 AM
Both stations serve and reflect their prime constituencies and licence payers (RTE has no licence payers in the North,and the people of the South are and always have been indifferent to the North).I can't fault either broadcaster to be honest.
That is a very partitionist attitude
RTE should make more of an effort. I wonder who designed RTE's rules and why.
I would feel a lot closer to Nordies including Prods than to Scots or Welsh but media framing is different. It is economically damaging.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
I was asked to provide evidence of how vibrant Catholicism is in the North as opposed to the South,which I believe I've genuinely done.
Vibrant my arse, I live in a parish where in my 50's I'm in the top 80% of the congregation when I go to mass, not a youngster over 16 in site. We have no priest because this so called vibrant church hasn't got any.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 07:00:10 PM
Funny that,it wasn't even available in Belfast and N Antrim until Sky digital.Portadown is less than 30 miles from Carlingford and the whole area, (and presumably all of East and Mid Ulster) didn't get access to RTE until the early 80s.
Bullshit again, I had family in Portadown with RTE TV in the '60's.
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
It is very strong in the Indo. I always laugh at the vitriol they have for Shinners compared to the respect for FF and the people who blew up the economy in 2008. Richie Boucher gets a free pass for example.
TV and Radio in the North from partition was there to reinforce the Britishness of Ulster. It has changed significantly but still has a way to go.
It still surprises me that BBC NI report the results of county finals in Monaghan, Cavan and Donegal. Pleasantly surprises me but surprises me none the less as I thought the unionist brigade would be up in arms.
FFS,apart from Seafoid,do you think the average person in the South gives two hoots about the North? And it seems to me any who do have arguably more sympathy with unionists, ask the Sindo,or
George Hook who has called for GSTQ to be played before Rugby Internationals at the Aviva,for Ireland home games.
A northern character appeared in Glenroe (written by a Northern Protestant) as a house burglar,and in Fair City there are occasional references to "Northerners" in deragotory tones.
What is it about the British right to rule the North is now constitutionally accepted by Nationalist Ireland North and South (dissident Republicans excepted),that you don't understand? Even before this Northern affairs were lumped under the Dublin Government's Foreign Affairs Dept. I remember reading about Charlie Haughey's ruse way back in the early 80s to play the Unitec Ireland card to win votes in a Southern General election only to be told by one of his floozys that "The people don't care about that,Sweetie!"
Get real,ffs
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
A survey carried out last week showed that the vast majority of citizens down South would not vote for a UI if it meant tax rises
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
Wait until Wall St blows up 2.0 muppet.
I was at a pensions conference last week. Blackrock is selling unpriceable illiquid credit yielding 4% in usd to Swiss pension funds.
Nothing could possibly go wrong
Quote from: T Fearon on October 02, 2016, 03:07:27 PM
I was asked to provide evidence of how vibrant Catholicism is in the North as opposed to the South,which I believe I've genuinely done.
The limitations of belief, genuine or otherwise, writ large
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2016, 07:17:35 PM
A survey carried out last week showed that the vast majority of citizens down South would not vote for a UI if it meant tax rises
I didn't see the survey but surely this is not a surprise. It doesn't make them bad people
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
Not sure I can agree with this.
What is the obvious popularity of a AI party? Do people really want this or do they want it after the read into the detail of what would be required to make it work?
I do agree that the RoI establishment does not want the whiff of anything far left.
To go beyond your point I think it is possible for their to be a financially literate hard left alternative. SF fall down on the first bit
I still think it's time for a reality check.After a century of partition,the cultural gap between Nortn and South (even among "nationalists") is ever widening.So there is no cultural reason for unification.There is no economic reason for unification (bar wild assumptions and fantasies).It seems to me the height of folly to try to unify two by now essentially different peoples who don't understand each other and have less and less in common.
Similarly to assume the North is as British as Finchley is equally non sensical not to mention unworkable.
The only logical way forward is for the North to abandon outdated Irish Nationalism and Ulster Unionism and forge a new and unique Northern Irish identity.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2016, 09:20:40 PM
I still think it's time for a reality check.After a century of partition,the cultural gap between Nortn and South (even among "nationalists") is ever widening.So there is no cultural reason for unification.There is no economic reason for unification (bar wild assumptions and fantasies).It seems to me the height of folly to try to unify two by now essentially different peoples who don't understand each other and have less and less in common.
Similarly to assume the North is as British as Finchley is equally non sensical not to mention unworkable.
The only logical way forward is for the North to abandon outdated Irish Nationalism and Ulster Unionism and forge a new and unique Northern Irish identity.
Tony, time for you and a whole load more to have a reality check. If someone doesn't fine themselves as a united irelander then are they a nationalist? Is it not just lazy to call them nationalist?
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2016, 07:38:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
Wait until Wall St blows up 2.0 muppet.
I was at a pensions conference last week. Blackrock is selling unpriceable illiquid credit yielding 4% in usd to Swiss pension funds.
Nothing could possibly go wrong
The developing US pensions crisis is a massive set of dominos that will eventually fall.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4 (http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4)
However this doesn't justify a giant leap to the left. DB pensions for state-workers is hardly a right-wing policy, is it?
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2016, 07:38:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
Wait until Wall St blows up 2.0 muppet.
I was at a pensions conference last week. Blackrock is selling unpriceable illiquid credit yielding 4% in usd to Swiss pension funds.
Nothing could possibly go wrong
The developing US pensions crisis is a massive set of dominos that will eventually fall.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4 (http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4)
However this doesn't justify a giant leap to the left. DB pensions for state-workers is hardly a right-wing policy, is it?
It's about credibility. If pensions were to collapse under FG I think you would see seismic political changes.
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 02:12:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 04, 2016, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2016, 07:38:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 03, 2016, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 03, 2016, 04:19:35 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on October 01, 2016, 10:27:34 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 01, 2016, 03:03:19 PM
The advent of RTE in the North over 30 years ago opened our eyes to life in the South...
I don't get this.
Radio Éireann has been pretty much available throughout the north since the Athlone station started in 1933. Telefís Éireann was available in parts of the North from launch night in 1961 with coverage expanded the following year. The Clermont Carn TV station in Louth opening in 1981 brought new & improved coverage to many east of the Bann, but RTÉ telly was available in many parts of the north already.
Besides, culturally and socially the Republic is quite different from back in 1981 to what it is now.
It's typical Tony bullshit to fit in with his OWC one nation theory. I are up in the '60's listening to Gaybo and Larry Gogan. In the houses that had RTE we gathered to watch the AI finals. The rise in anti northern bias in the media in the South is fuelled by the rise of SF.
I think that's actually quite true. The 'establishment' are very nervous of Sinn Fein, and what they might bring to the table if they have a chance, so they seem to be very, very negative towards them, and by extension, northern Nationalism.
A party campaigning for a 32 county Ireland would obviously be very popular, but one that wants to tear everything up and introduce a new far-left society, is hardly going to be welcomed with open arms by any establishment unless it is already far-left.
Wait until Wall St blows up 2.0 muppet.
I was at a pensions conference last week. Blackrock is selling unpriceable illiquid credit yielding 4% in usd to Swiss pension funds.
Nothing could possibly go wrong
The developing US pensions crisis is a massive set of dominos that will eventually fall.
http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4 (http://www.businessinsider.com/us-government-7-trillion-pension-shortfall-2016-4)
However this doesn't justify a giant leap to the left. DB pensions for state-workers is hardly a right-wing policy, is it?
It's about credibility. If pensions were to collapse under FG I think you would see seismic political changes.
It's about spoofing.
If you are far-left, pretend everything is the fault of the the far-right and insist that very soon everything will prove you right. If you are far-right pretend that everything is the fault of the far-left and very soon everything will prove you right.
If you are Donald Trump, blame everyone and insist that if you are elected, everything will be great.
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 08:36:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2016, 07:17:35 PM
A survey carried out last week showed that the vast majority of citizens down South would not vote for a UI if it meant tax rises
I didn't see the survey but surely this is not a surprise. It doesn't make them bad people
Surveys are easily manipulated. An experiment in the UK asked punters 2 questions
1. Should the NHS be free at point of entry. Majority yes
2 Should junkies and criminals and othet deplorables have to pay for their treatment. Majority yes
If Irish people were asked "Would you support a UI if it was good for the economy" most would say yes.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 03, 2016, 09:20:40 PM
I still think it's time for a reality check.After a century of partition,the cultural gap between Nortn and South (even among "nationalists") is ever widening.So there is no cultural reason for unification.There is no economic reason for unification (bar wild assumptions and fantasies).It seems to me the height of folly to try to unify two by now essentially different peoples who don't understand each other and have less and less in common.
Similarly to assume the North is as British as Finchley is equally non sensical not to mention unworkable.
The only logical way forward is for the North to abandon outdated Irish Nationalism and Ulster Unionism and forge a new and unique Northern Irish identity.
It already exists in the flag waving, billy boy singing, marching Orange cultural bandwagon, that you appear to be on. If you think that Unionists are going to stand for any thing that dilutes their sense that NI is British then you are deluded. Arlene is already forging this NI OWC identity but it includes no sense of Irishness. Try selling this guff up at Tir Na Nog on the Garvaghy Road and Brendy McKenna will run you out of town.
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
Money wise, I've family that live in Cork and they are paying more tax now than they ever dd and had a freeze on their wages for long periods and their retirement pans have been altered now and they are going to have to work a lot longer to get the pension they were promised before Ireland nearly went bankrupt .. So why would anyone want to leave the North and work in the South?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
So why would anyone want to leave the North and work in the South?
I'd say most graduates would be more than happy to; and plenty are. It's either that or be unemployed if they stay put
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
Money wise, I've family that live in Cork and they are paying more tax now than they ever dd and had a freeze on their wages for long periods and their retirement pans have been altered now and they are going to have to work a lot longer to get the pension they were promised before Ireland nearly went bankrupt .. So why would anyone want to leave the North and work in the South?
I live in the north and it has been the same for me.
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2016, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
exactly and salaries tend to reflect the economy, a colleague doing the exact same job as me in the ROI is earning €20k more than me so he can afford more tax.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
So why would anyone want to leave the North and work in the South?
I'd say most graduates would be more than happy to; and plenty are. It's either that or be unemployed if they stay put
Quote from: general_lee on October 04, 2016, 09:33:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 09:24:58 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 03, 2016, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 01, 2016, 04:00:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 11:31:09 AM
I started reading In search of a state. Catholics in NI by Fionnuala O Connor. Published 1994. Loads of stuff in it about betrayal, RTE bias, being excluded. Also about NI education meaning people didn't know much about the South.
Have things changed since? There are more people from the North working in the South now for example.
Plenty southerns working in the North two, why anyone would want to work down south is beyond me
What does this mean?
So why would anyone want to leave the North and work in the South?
I'd say most graduates would be more than happy to; and plenty are. It's either that or be unemployed if they stay put
you are talking about a particular group, like i said my realitives have said about the higher tax on everything and the pensions, you'd be a complete fool not to take a job if offered in these times but if given the opportunity to work in the South v the North then I'd say most would take the North or England for that matter, Brexit of not...
The South has better productivity, public finances, trade situation, growth prospects and more stable politics than the UK. Over time it should become more attractive.
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 10:47:09 AM
The South has better productivity, public finances, trade situation, growth prospects and more stable politics than the UK. Over time it should become more attractive.
I can only tell you what someone from Cork told me very recently, who has worked in a public sector job for forty years
Since the Tories have come into power in 2010 one of the first things they did was "reform" public service pensions. So anyone working in the public sector in the north will also be paying more into their pension & working longer for a reduced pension.
The Tories are not good for OWC
No matter what the South has it still doesn't want the North.This reality must be swallowed.
N Irish identity is not in any way synonymous with a DUP or Unionist outlook.It is ironically the best way to discard these two obsolete viewpoints,which,like their obsolete Irish nationalist outlooks,survive and thrive on division.
So if you want to see a strong DUP just keep the status quo.
So when are you starting the " NorthernIreland National non Unionist non Nationalist neither Irish or British Party" ? ;D
How would an independent Northern Ireland look Tony?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2016, 06:12:32 PM
No matter what the South has it still doesn't want the North.This reality must be swallowed.
N Irish identity is not in any way synonymous with a DUP or Unionist outlook.It is ironically the best way to discard these two obsolete viewpoints,which,like their obsolete Irish nationalist outlooks,survive and thrive on division.
So if you want to see a strong DUP just keep the status quo.
How can the UI view be obsolete? Ireland has been partitioned for less than 2% of its recorded human history.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2016, 07:17:59 PM
How would an independent Northern Ireland look Tony?
Like North Korea.
Brexit has opened the door for major political changes. However no party has provided a realistic plan for a united Ireland that would maintain economic well being across the island
I am not advocating an independent N Ireland.Apart from economic inviability an independent NI tomorrow would still be tribal and polarised.
I am advocating the end of the sham tussle between unionism and nationalism,which is unwinnable by either side,in favour of a common N Irish identity.This would still constitutionally be part of the U.K. (the same as present ,which has been endorsed by Dublin,SF and SDLP) but could also in time be part of a United Ireland,where the focus would still be on the primacy of a N Irish identity
What would a northern Ireland identity look like?
Outstretched red hand
Holding a net
to catch yourself on
A pocket for grievances
Fermanagh is the west
Donegal becomes land of the setting sun
One newspaper which is half marching news half GAA
All those will be part of a new Irish identity too,in the highly unlikely event of a United Ireland
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2016, 08:38:35 PM
tussle between unionism and nationalism,which is unwinnable
...
This would still constitutionally be part of the U.K.
So a win for unionism then?
No,it is just a reality.We are not capable of sustaining ourselves currently and the Dublin Government neither wants nor can afford us.No other option I'm afraid
Bit ironic that Newry was steadfastly opposed to Brexit but is now facing a boom due to shoppers from the South availing of favourable exchange rates,with Damolly retail park selling for millions and The Quays enlarging and about to open new stores.
The owner of the Quays, from the nationalist community,was interviewed on the news last night talking about "N Ireland and the rest of the U.K.!"
Exchange rates are a temporary benefit for Newry, a case of making good speed towards the ice berg.
What will they call their State when Scotland pulls out?
Scotland won't pull out.SNP fast losing credibility.Just like Sinn Fein powerful as a protest party,not so good in Government
How long have the SNP been running Scotland now?
The 62% who voted to stay in the EU might decide they want to pull out if the "United Kingdom" - shouldn't it be called the " United Kingdoms" (of Scotland and England plus a biteen of the former kingdom of Ireland)?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 10:47:09 AM
The South has better productivity, public finances, trade situation, growth prospects and more stable politics than the UK. Over time it should become more attractive.
I can only tell you what someone from Cork told me very recently, who has worked in a public sector job for forty years
Has it occurred to you that the Cork person didn't want you to stay? ;D
I have lived in the North, England and obviously Ireland. There is no contest as to where I want to live.
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 06:38:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 10:47:09 AM
The South has better productivity, public finances, trade situation, growth prospects and more stable politics than the UK. Over time it should become more attractive.
I can only tell you what someone from Cork told me very recently, who has worked in a public sector job for forty years
Has it occurred to you that the Cork person didn't want you to stay? ;D
I have lived in the North, England and obviously Ireland. There is no contest as to where I want to live.
And that's great, you lived in those other countries for work reasons? Is immigrating due to no work slowed down now?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 04, 2016, 11:13:06 PM
Scotland won't pull out.SNP fast losing credibility.Just like Sinn Fein powerful as a protest party,not so good in Government
It's a long play, Tony. The economic system is breaking down. Whoever can harness public anger coherently will win .
The Tories can't.
Quote from: muppet on October 05, 2016, 06:38:25 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 04, 2016, 11:41:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2016, 10:47:09 AM
The South has better productivity, public finances, trade situation, growth prospects and more stable politics than the UK. Over time it should become more attractive.
I can only tell you what someone from Cork told me very recently, who has worked in a public sector job for forty years
Has it occurred to you that the Cork person didn't want you to stay? ;D
I have lived in the North, England and obviously Ireland. There is no contest as to where I want to live.
That would be tainted a bit because Ireland is home to you . I feel more drawn to live in the north mainly due to family. To be honest there are parts of the south which I think could be better to live in but I wouldn't fancy having a mortgage to live in Dublin whereas Belfast is affordable. Somewhere like England wouldn't have that issue for me
I do think that any possible advantages living in the north may have financially will more than likely be negated, and then some, by this brexit nonsense though.
If Brexit goes the way people think it might then the best thing for the north would be unification in the short to medium term however that would not be the best thing for the south I suspect!
The Tories have a thing about Europe . It has been going on since 1979
It will break the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2016, 08:50:34 AM
The Tories have a thing about Europe . It has been going on since 1979
It will break the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No)
The
Tories Brits have a thing about Europe . It has been going on since
1979 the 1600s.
Quote from: Hardy on October 05, 2016, 11:26:06 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2016, 08:50:34 AM
The Tories have a thing about Europe . It has been going on since 1979
It will break the UK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuuObGsB0No)
The Tories Brits have a thing about Europe . It has been going on since 1979 the 1600s.
1500s. Henry buidin foolish 8 was an early version of Brexit , breaking with Rome and setting up the Church of England
Read Brian Feeney in Wednesday's IN, he succinctly sums up why Tony's NI project is a load of the usual guff.
My Northern Irish project would see both DUP and SF sidelined,and the focus on a truly shared future,not winding the other tribe up by renaming a fisheries boat,which seems to vex Brian,whose column is merely a weekly rant about Unionists and Unionism.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
My Northern Irish project would see both DUP and SF sidelined,and the focus on a truly shared future,not winding the other tribe up by renaming a fisheries boat,which seems to vex Brian,whose column is merely a weekly rant about Unionists and Unionism.
You have more chance of Mervyn Gibson saying mass in St Patricks than you have of selling your version of OWC to either tribe.
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2016, 12:35:28 AM
My Northern Irish project would see both DUP and SF sidelined,and the focus on a truly shared future,not winding the other tribe up by renaming a fisheries boat,which seems to vex Brian,whose column is merely a weekly rant about Unionists and Unionism.
This is comedy gold!
Anyone else you would like
'sidelined' in your
'shared future'? ;D ;D
Sterling fell significantly in a few minutes today. The UK is in serious, serious trouble. The Tory civil war and rule by swivel eyed loon is not good for OWC .
And Dublin with its bottomless pit of money stands by ready to come to our aid? ::)
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2016, 03:09:36 PM
And Dublin with its bottomless pit of money stands by ready to come to our aid? ::)
You want nothing to do with Dublin. You spend your days highlighting how much you despite the 26 counties. And you want my taxes to help you?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2016, 03:09:36 PM
And Dublin with its bottomless pit of money stands by ready to come to our aid? ::)
Get up off ye're lazy arses and work to pay ye're own way >:(
I'm only responding to Seafoid constantly banging on about the UK and the North being on the rocks.He infers therefore a United Ireland would be a better option for the North.I am asking if there's a bottomless pit of money in Dublin to pay for this?
Quote from: T Fearon on October 07, 2016, 06:58:05 PM
I'm only responding to Seafoid constantly banging on about the UK and the North being on the rocks.He infers therefore a United Ireland would be a better option for the North.I am asking if there's a bottomless pit of money in Dublin to pay for this?
You have to ask a country that has been bailed out by the IMF if it has a bottomless pit of money.
You are surviving, along with most of the UK, on the spoils of London City. We can see, looking at the pound for example, that Brexit (which still hasn't happened yet) is going to reduce those spoils substantially.
Think about it.....
I am not denying what you're saying.Again ask Seafoid why he bangs on about a United Ireland to save the North from financial ruin? Who is going to pay for it?
The problem is that the present bollix will only make it more difficult to do real business in NI and increase the need for handouts in a vicious cycle. Just more of the same is not a very promising course of action either.