Well deserved honour for this truly iconic figure who led a saintly life,and an example to all of us.I only learned recently that she studied to become a nun in Dublin and established a house near the peace line and lived there in Belfast for a couple of years in the early 1970s.
My only regret is that I am not in Rome for the ceremony today (and I commend RTE for its live coverage) though I will be in Rome in the latter part of this week.
Not another hotel misbooking I hope
While she deservedly won the NPP for her work for the poorest of the poor in Kolkata, the notion of Sainthood based on approved 'miracles' is ridiculous. Being made a 'saint' on the basis of her undoubtedly great work (despite antiquated and unhelpful views about divorce, abortion and contraception) is fine by me, but surely the church needs to let go of the whole miracle thing. I mean, come on!
Surprised the Pope didn't postpone the ceremony till Tony got there!? :o
Him and Jarlath couldve headed over together
Kolkata will take a century to recover from Mother Teresa
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/kolkata-will-take-a-century-to-recover-from-mother-teresa/articleshow/53990241.cms?from=mdr
Referring to the canonisation as a "black magic ceremony" and the Saint as a "medieval creature of darkness" says it all about this ego driven ("I sorted it all out in the last 25 years") envious ungrateful cretin😡
I can remember some of the Polemicists being less than impressed with her. Hitchens, Pilger or Chomsky.
Edit, Hitchens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The+Missionary+Position%3A_Mother_Teresa_in_Theory_and_Practice?wprov=sfla1
All anti catholics😠😠
I think the fact you started this thread as another means of winding people up in order to fuel your ego driven mentality speaks volumes about the pathetic hypocrite you are. You'd start a post about your late mother if you thought it would provoke a reaction. I feel sorry for you in many respects
Quote from: bennydorano on September 04, 2016, 12:42:38 PM
I can remember some of the Polemicists being less than impressed with her. Hitchens, Pilger or Chomsky.
Edit, Hitchens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The+Missionary+Position%3A_Mother_Teresa_in_Theory_and_Practice?wprov=sfla1
Yes, less than impressed just about sums it up all right.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2003/10/mommie_dearest.html)
If the church wants to elevate someone based on a life's work, great (I'm not judging THAT), but the Monica Besra "cure" on which this canonization is based is just ludicrous.
I can see why the Catholic Church are so keen, but when the f**k are people going to grow up?
But then I suppose anti-intellectualism, a lack of critical thinking and poor knowledge of science, statistics and logic is the order of day amongst many and getting worse in the era of Fox News and the internet.
I think while she made mistakes in her life,as everyone does,her lifelong commitment to the poorest of the poor is worthy of her canonisation.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 03:16:59 PM
I think while she made mistakes in her life,as everyone does,her lifelong commitment to the poorest of the poor is worthy of her canonisation.
Hahaha what a whitewash!
Will she do anything about climate change or is sainthood more like a frequent flyers club.
One of the greatest things Teresa did was refusing Hardstation a pastie supper in the chippy when she worked here part time whilst general nunning in the West Belfast area.
This "miracle" business starts at the level of horseshit and the church does not one single thing to elevate it above this level.
How can anybody take this nonsense seriously? and how anybody take these church figures and indeed church seriously when it weds itself to such obvious lies and fakery.
Anjezë Bojaxhiu did not perform any miracles. She devoted almost all of her time to doing what she thought was right to help those in desperate need. It is a great pity that she was horribly deluded in so many respects as to what these people actually needed and how best to help. It is a matter of deep concern that so many did so little to end the madness and put things right. It is a matter of acute embarrassment that so many cannot meaningfully engage in a genuine evaluation of what the woman did? what led her to do it and who should have intervened. To continue the evasion and carry through with the cannonisation is an exercise in screaming to the world that the minds running the church are entirely devoid of critical analysis and intelligent thought.
Don't you know faith is not amenable to reason or logic.If it were,it wouldn't be faith it would be either fact or fiction.
Miracles do happen,people recover from terminal cancer,or turn their lives around.Scientists are baffled too and frequently
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Don't you know faith is not amenable to reason or logic.If it were,it wouldn't be faith it would be either fact or fiction.
Miracles do happen,people recover from terminal cancer,or turn their lives around.Scientists are baffled too and frequently
yep there are plenty of stories of people being raised from the dead. FFS :D
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Don't you know faith is not amenable to reason or logic.
I know that people of faith are neither logical nor reasonable.
I know that you are a man of particularly strong faith and everything that goes wit it.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
If it were,it wouldn't be faith it would be either fact or fiction.
Faith does not sit outside fact/fiction. The things you believe in are either fact or fiction. Now what facts can you point to?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Miracles do happen,people recover from terminal cancer,or turn their lives around.Scientists are baffled too and frequently
Does does someone recovering from cancer make it a miracle?
Now limbs growing back. That would be a a miracle. How many times have people with these miraculous powers done that?
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
The current running total for cures claimed by the church is 4. All four are things that can go away (and have done so in people who haven't anywhere near the south of france). At least 3 of the people where receiving medical treatment for their complaint.
So how many legs have grown back? How many holes in the heart have repaired?
What is a "saintly life"? The serial denial of medical treatment to the dying? Would that be saintly?
If he'd any respect for the woman he wouldn't have started this thread, as he knew full well what would develop. A fraud of the highest order & I'm not talking about MT.
I started the thread to express my admiration and joy at this canonisation
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 10:11:03 PM
I started the thread to express my admiration and joy at this canonisation
Couldn't care why you started the thread. You openly admit to little grasp of either logic or reason so its not going to be easy to establish your motivations for anything.
So what is this admiration at this cannonisation lark?
Why admire any cannonisation? Surely all cannonisations are linked to this whole miracle bunkum? Surely each and every cannonisation just brings more ridicule on your church? Is it not just more evidence of the church having to hold to something that previous management signed up to and now they have to perpetuate the lie, no matter how cringe inducing to avoid admitting the whole thing is horseshit? Its like the "Jesus died to absolve us all of original sin" nonsense? Try getting someone to admit to to the existence of Adam & Eve and you will see how many people believe the original sin lie? But without the lie the whole "dying for our sins" skullduggery evaporates. And the hose of cards collapses?
Why admire this cannonisation? The woman was deeply flawed and needed to be stopped. To hang back and do nothing is bad. To laud the woman is in bad taste.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 04, 2016, 09:47:54 PM
If he'd any respect for the woman he wouldn't have started this thread, as he knew full well what would develop. A fraud of the highest order & I'm not talking about MT.
You're 100% right Benny. He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew the reaction it would provoke. As I said earlier he'd post about his late mother if he thought he could get a response.
What was the miracle?
Mayo winning Sam?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
Name some.
Links would be good as well.
Quote from: smelmoth on September 04, 2016, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
The current running total for cures claimed by the church is 4. All four are things that can go away (and have done so in people who haven't anywhere near the south of france). At least 3 of the people where receiving medical treatment for their complaint.
So how many legs have grown back? How many holes in the heart have repaired?
What is a "saintly life"? The serial denial of medical treatment to the dying? Would that be saintly?
Have you ever been to Lourdes? Genuine question. For me, and I've been 9/10 times and have yet to see someone get cured, the miracle is not in the cures but in the joy and happiness the place brings to people who have a lot of suffering in their lives. And to people who don't have as much suffering. Also on a personal note, one of my journeys there, a month after the death of my father, allowed to stay healing and that in itself was a miracle, tho not one the church would recognise.
Have been once,many years ago.Look if people get agitated by the canonisation of a nun who dedicated herself to the poor over a long life,and who had firm links to Ireland,then they have a serious problem🙄
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2016, 07:21:48 AM
Have been once,many years ago.Look if people get agitated by the canonisation of a nun who dedicated herself to the poor over a long life,and who had firm links to Ireland,then they have a serious problem🙄
Obviously her consorting with and defence of convicted fraudster Charles Keating does not bother you.
Or her acceptance of an honour from the utterly discredited Duvalier regime in Haiti?
Common link between both is the $$$.
Seems to me that Teasy wasn't particular in her acolytes morals as long as they were coming good with the dosh, similar modus operandi to Jimmy Saville , another notable Vatican honouree.
Didn't she refuse to help people who used contraception? Saintly my hole.
At best she would have, in political parlance if she were alive, 'questions to answer', despite the documented good she seems to have done.
At worst she was a charlatan.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2016, 11:58:49 AM
Didn't she refuse to help people who used contraception? Saintly my hole.
I see what you did there.
The Vatican is a joke at the best of times. Most of the Irish saints were not recognised by Rome. I think only Larry O'Toole and Olly P got the Vatican nod.
I've no doubt she did loads of good but refusing to help people because they didn't hold true to church teaching is not good in my view. The catholic church is really weird when it comes to sexual matters. Junkies and alcoholics - no problem. Condoms - go to hell.
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2016, 01:23:56 PM
I've no doubt she did loads of good but refusing to help people because they didn't hold true to church teaching is not good in my view. The catholic church is really weird when it comes to sexual matters. Junkies and alcoholics - no problem. Condoms - go to hell.
I agree with you Seanie 100%.
Yer man that doubts she did great work for the poor is a disgrace, she was a tremendous asset to people the world over, did she ever make miracles happen? probably not.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/aug/24/wasmotherteresaanatheist
Journalistic equivalent of the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch ...Tony won't like this
Having occasional doubts about God's existence? Wondering why he has forsaken her? Didn't his own son wonder similarly during the crucifixion? Perfectly natural human thoughts.
The Saint lived a good and holy life.If she shook despots for dirty money and used it for the poor fair play to her.
There was over 120,000 people in and around St Peters Square yesterday,and millions across the globe applauding and endorsing this canonisation.I haven't heard of any such commemoration in Dublin though (there was one in Belfast) despite the fact she studied there.Not surprising given the banality of life there and the moral and spiritual bankruptcy.If it had been two siblings coming back from the Olympics with second best medals or an international football team eliminated at the last 16 of a tournament coming home,or an ageing Monarch from across the Irish Sea,Dublin would have been thronged no doubt.
Maybe Irish people are sick to their holes of the self congratulations that a corrupt organisation lays upon itself as part of its mind control and mind f**king of the weak minded individuals across the world who don't have the wit to think for themselves? Maybe?
It wasn't always so,however
http://www.dublincity.ie/image/libraries/foc041-mother-teresa
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 05, 2016, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on September 04, 2016, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
The current running total for cures claimed by the church is 4. All four are things that can go away (and have done so in people who haven't anywhere near the south of france). At least 3 of the people where receiving medical treatment for their complaint.
So how many legs have grown back? How many holes in the heart have repaired?
What is a "saintly life"? The serial denial of medical treatment to the dying? Would that be saintly?
Have you ever been to Lourdes? Genuine question. For me, and I've been 9/10 times and have yet to see someone get cured, the miracle is not in the cures but in the joy and happiness the place brings to people who have a lot of suffering in their lives. And to people who don't have as much suffering. Also on a personal note, one of my journeys there, a month after the death of my father, allowed to stay healing and that in itself was a miracle, tho not one the church would recognise.
Pardon me for asking but what qualities/properties does Lourdes have that bestows this great healing power? Is it some sort of placebo effect (and who would begrudge anyone that feeling)? Do the claims of the church and the Lourdes Syndicat d'Initiative not go that bit further?
And no I haven't been to the town. Been to Pau though. Felt pretty good about it.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2016, 07:21:48 AM
Have been once,many years ago.Look if people get agitated by the canonisation of a nun who dedicated herself to the poor over a long life,and who had firm links to Ireland,then they have a serious problem🙄
Perfectly fine to point out the ludicrous nature of these cannonisations. One of these days the church will pipe up and say something that they feel will have some intellectual merit and it will be important to remember that there is a lunacy at the core of this organisation and its top brass.
As for Teresa it is important to examine the facts. She might of dedicated her time (fair play) but she was deluded and damaging and lessons need to be learned. I mean seriously if someone set about doing what she did today they would have to be stopped.
Quote from: stew on September 05, 2016, 01:28:14 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on September 05, 2016, 01:23:56 PM
I've no doubt she did loads of good but refusing to help people because they didn't hold true to church teaching is not good in my view. The catholic church is really weird when it comes to sexual matters. Junkies and alcoholics - no problem. Condoms - go to hell.
I agree with you Seanie 100%.
Yer man that doubts she did great work for the poor is a disgrace, she was a tremendous asset to people the world over, did she ever make miracles happen? probably not.
Its a bit more that doubt.
Its one things to not be able to afford medicines but to turn them away??? Some of the hallmarks of a dealt cult?
Its one thing to not be aware of the basics of medical cleanliness but to just reject it and then subject those you are responsible for to reused needles? This is form of madness. Dangerous madness.
It particular form of love could be dangerous and it certainly was not unconditional in the way that compassionate charities and aid workers are
Regardless,billions of people believe a man died on a cross,and rose again (amazing this "unlikely" story has so much currency over 2000 years on).
Of course this can neither be proved nor disproved.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 05, 2016, 08:02:35 PM
It wasn't always so,however
http://www.dublincity.ie/image/libraries/foc041-mother-teresa
That was before all the revelations about child rape.
And it is another generation. Who don't drink Harp. Or use chef salad cream. Things move on.
Yes,now HM Queen Elizabeth II is welcomed with open arms
Teasy's consorting with Licio Gelli must not bother you either Tony, a mason, ultra right wing failed Italian coup plotter, one of Mussolinis main men.
She also had a bit of time for the various Albanian despots, flew in on the private jets , hob nobbed with the Albanians and fucked off with the cash for a few photos, ignore the famine in her native land to f**k of back to Calcutta and preach her own brand of Opus Dei witch craft there.
Teasy had a bit of a thing for the right wing nut jobbery, I suppose they were rich, which ultimately was all Teasy was after, the wonga
And she used the money for what? Was it not to alleviate poverty? The Saint saw good in everyone.
She was a whore for despots and swindlers and western governments loved her for it.
In some ways I feel sorry for her, but the swindle that is Mother Teresa is another example of how the elite control the narrative
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 07:12:37 AM
And she used the money for what? Was it not to alleviate poverty? The Saint saw good in everyone.
She alleviated nothing of the sort you misguiding fool
"Poverty alleviation involves the strategic use of tools such as education, economic development, health and income redistribution to improve the livelihoods of the worlds poorest by governments and internationally approved organizations."
Quote from: theskull1 on September 06, 2016, 07:55:52 AM
She was a whore for despots and swindlers and western governments loved her for it.
In some ways I feel sorry for her, but the swindle that is Mother Teresa is another example of how the elite control the narrative
The elite always sanitize the Iconic figures, they wanted Mandela hung when he came out of jail and considered him and inspiration when dead.
The best example is the state 1916 commemorations this year, lets remember those brave men of Easter week who were wrong and it was Redmond was the hero of the day such twisted logic to suit current day politik.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 07:12:37 AM
And she used the money for what? Was it not to alleviate poverty? The Saint saw good in everyone.
That's all it was about.
If she was on a higher moral plane than the rest of us she would have thought " hold on a minute, this Charles Keating character has ripped off tens of thousands of ordinary hard working people, cleaned them of their life savings, decimated families and has never shown 1 seconds remorse for doing so, should I, the venerated one, be even acknowledging this creature let alone accepting his filthy millions?"
No Teasy said " thanks Charles, what time is the Gulf Stream landing at? I need to pop over and see the Duvailers, lovely people"
As far as I'm concerned she is on a par with a Deep South TV evangelical preacher, show me by your donation how much you love God, don't see those charlatans getting beatification.
A corrupt old woman is all she was.
Quote from: smelmoth on September 05, 2016, 08:25:09 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on September 05, 2016, 01:08:40 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on September 04, 2016, 09:33:10 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 09:26:56 PM
Believers obviously believe in the supernatural power of God,therefore when someone recovers from previously diagnosed terminal cancer for example,that is inexplicable to the medical profession,that in my opinion is a miracle.There have been numerous such cures,unexplained,at Lourdes for example.
But far more important for me anyway is the Saintly life led by Saint Mother Theresa,the main factor in her canonisation.
The current running total for cures claimed by the church is 4. All four are things that can go away (and have done so in people who haven't anywhere near the south of france). At least 3 of the people where receiving medical treatment for their complaint.
So how many legs have grown back? How many holes in the heart have repaired?
What is a "saintly life"? The serial denial of medical treatment to the dying? Would that be saintly?
Have you ever been to Lourdes? Genuine question. For me, and I've been 9/10 times and have yet to see someone get cured, the miracle is not in the cures but in the joy and happiness the place brings to people who have a lot of suffering in their lives. And to people who don't have as much suffering. Also on a personal note, one of my journeys there, a month after the death of my father, allowed to stay healing and that in itself was a miracle, tho not one the church would recognise.
Pardon me for asking but what qualities/properties does Lourdes have that bestows this great healing power? Is it some sort of placebo effect (and who would begrudge anyone that feeling)? Do the claims of the church and the Lourdes Syndicat d'Initiative not go that bit further?
And no I haven't been to the town. Been to Pau though. Felt pretty good about it.
What are the claims? I assume it's to do with miraculous cures? I've never seen anyone cured in Lourdes. We used to joke in the baths about how to get wheelchair people out. We would always say we don't need to, you chuck them in one end and they walk out the other. Like I said for me the miracle is in the happiness and peace it brings people.
As for healing, I can't answer your question. Maybe the answer is in the fact that I've seen the happiness brought to people in Lourdes. All I can say is after that particular trip I felt better and was able to start healing from the pain the death of my father brought.
Is she Saint Mother Teresa or just Saint Teresa? The "mother" seems superfluous? Unless it's for other saints - "that Teresa is one bad mother".
Oh by the way Tony, doubting God's existence for 50 years (which her own letters prove) definitely puts her at least on the agnostic side of things, rather than a true believer.
Not that makes her any worse a person mind you. It's just a bit mad the church canonising someone, claiming they performed miracles, when self same person spent the majority of her life wondering if it all wasn't just a bit of a cod.
She comes across as deeply, deeply unhappy in her own words.
Don't know anything about the other scandals as I never had much interest in her - but as for all us soulless Dubliners compared to the devout Belfast men, I think it's very telling that our secular attitude was closer to the reality of her inner life.
From my own experience ET, doubt does not mean lack of faith, in fact it means faith is all the stronger since you have considered other possibilities and still have the belief.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:18:37 AM
Well deserved honour for this truly iconic figure who led a saintly life,and an example to all of us.I only learned recently that she studied to become a nun in Dublin and established a house near the peace line and lived there in Belfast for a couple of years in the early 1970s.
My only regret is that I am not in Rome for the ceremony today (and I commend RTE for its live coverage) though I will be in Rome in the latter part of this week.
Iconic Saint my arse. Undoubtedly led a group of nuns that did some good work, raised a lot of dough, but then so do many charities. Miracles are bullshit a bit like moving statues. No wonder the Prods laugh at us.
Prods take the Bible seriously and the Gospels are full of miracles.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 06, 2016, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 04, 2016, 08:18:37 AM
Well deserved honour for this truly iconic figure who led a saintly life,and an example to all of us.I only learned recently that she studied to become a nun in Dublin and established a house near the peace line and lived there in Belfast for a couple of years in the early 1970s.
My only regret is that I am not in Rome for the ceremony today (and I commend RTE for its live coverage) though I will be in Rome in the latter part of this week.
Iconic Saint my arse. Undoubtedly led a group of nuns that did some good work, raised a lot of dough, but then so do many charities. Miracles are bullshit a bit like moving statues. No wonder the Prods laugh at us.
Are they? How do you know?
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 06, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Dunno
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 06, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Roscommon getting into Division 1
Treasa was a Rossie deep down
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2016, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 06, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Roscommon getting into Division 1
Treasa was a Rossie deep down
Surely Roscommon actually staying in Division 1 was the most recent miracle?
Of course she is a Saint, not a god, so isn't omnipotent. Hence Roscommon's championship form....
/Jim.
It is generally disturbing reading some of the comments on this thread.You could be forgiven for thinking Hitler instead of a Saintly nun,was the topic.
It is farcical,for anti Catholics even,to try to argue St Theresa of Calcutta (and I'm delighted to see death notices in the Irish News already pleading for her intercession) was any other than a holy and saintly woman who lived a blessed life.
Every human being,even dyed in the wool atheists,have doubts at times,and if she mixed with despots etc,well then Jesus did exactly the same.
You knew exactly the sort of comments the thread would generate, that's why you started it.
How could I predict comments from other posters.I was only expressing my happiness that a nun with strong links to Ireland North and South,was deservedly canonised.
That this precipitated such a venomous reaction is genuinely disturbing but is not my fault in any way shape or form.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:11:50 PM
It is generally disturbing reading some of the comments on this thread.You could be forgiven for thinking Hitler instead of a Saintly nun,was the topic.
It is farcical,for anti Catholics even,to try to argue St Theresa of Calcutta (and I'm delighted to see death notices in the Irish News already pleading for her intercession) was any other than a holy and saintly woman who lived a blessed life.
Every human being,even dyed in the wool atheists,have doubts at times,and if she mixed with despots etc,well then Jesus did exactly the same.
Tony, Herod was fulfilling Scripture, as was Judas, FFS
Judas always gets a bad rap but without him the story would not have happened and we might all be Zoroastrian.
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 06, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Fianna Fail in the polls.
Well in interacting with despots she was only following the example of Jesus.If she diverted their dirty money into helping the poor fair play to her.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
Well in interacting with despots she was only following the example of Jesus.If she diverted their dirty money into helping the poor fair play to her.
She wasn't fulfilling Scripture.
I agree with your sentiment but on previous experience you must have known it would generate the usual reaction from the usual suspects.
Although at the same time demonization is no reason to censor topics
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2016, 07:27:00 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
Well in interacting with despots she was only following the example of Jesus.If she diverted their dirty money into helping the poor fair play to her.
She wasn't fulfilling Scripture.
Is she supposed to be a prophet?
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on September 06, 2016, 06:00:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2016, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: Dire Ear on September 06, 2016, 04:05:58 PM
What would be the most recent and proven miracle ??
Roscommon getting into Division 1
Treasa was a Rossie deep down
Surely Roscommon actually staying in Division 1 was the most recent miracle?
Of course she is a Saint, not a god, so isn't omnipotent. Hence Roscommon's championship form....
/Jim.
All in the ha'penny place in comparison to Ray Silke, John Divilly of Seàn Ó Dòmhnall having AI medals.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
How could I predict comments from other posters.I was only expressing my happiness that a nun with strong links to Ireland North and South,was deservedly canonised.
That this precipitated such a venomous reaction is genuinely disturbing but is not my fault in any way shape or form.
Are you saying that the posts and links about letting people die without medical treatment and reject basic medical practices re hygiene and infection controls are venomous lies or are you accepting that they are true but that its venomous to point out the truth?
This needs a straight answer
According to The Bible, Tony, and indeed all Christians, are saints.
According to the Catholic Church, one must be canonised to become a Saint.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:11:50 PM
It is generally disturbing reading some of the comments on this thread.You could be forgiven for thinking Hitler instead of a Saintly nun,was the topic.
It is farcical,for anti Catholics even,to try to argue St Theresa of Calcutta (and I'm delighted to see death notices in the Irish News already pleading for her intercession) was any other than a holy and saintly woman who lived a blessed life.
Every human being,even dyed in the wool atheists,have doubts at times,and if she mixed with despots etc,well then Jesus did exactly the same.
Why would this make you "delighted"? Seriously?????
It shows devout Catholics acknowledging the new Saint and their confidence in her
So what? Why does that delight you? Would them asking other Saints not delight you? Or not delight you as much?
As usual you're just exaggerating to get a reaction and I'm a dick for giving you one. Delighted - my hole. Wise up.
looks like teasy will have to get her finger out 5th miracle required to get mickey a contract extension down tyrone way. does the continued belief in the miracle not underpin catholicism and even the paul daniels bit on a sunday.
Look,the Pope is infallible and always acting under the direct influence of God.If he determines the
that Mother Theresa should be canonised then this is a decision directly influenced by God Almighty.Miracles are really irrelevant.
It is heartwarming to see the Faithful interceding to St Theresa for their loved ones in Death Notices.This shows unfettered faith.
Why would anyone look for interceding from a woman who regularly wrote that she was not a true believer?
You probably have more faith than Teasy ever did, even if it is misguided at times and runs to attempting g to defend the Catholic Church's multiple disgusting trangressions over the years.
Quote from: LCohen on September 06, 2016, 10:31:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
How could I predict comments from other posters.I was only expressing my happiness that a nun with strong links to Ireland North and South,was deservedly canonised.
That this precipitated such a venomous reaction is genuinely disturbing but is not my fault in any way shape or form.
Are you saying that the posts and links about letting people die without medical treatment and reject basic medical practices re hygiene and infection controls are venomous lies or are you accepting that they are true but that its venomous to point out the truth?
This needs a straight answer
Anyway when are you gonna deign to give an answer to LCohen's perfectly reasonable question?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 07, 2016, 07:24:50 AM
Look,the Pope is infallible and always acting under the direct influence of God.If he determines the
that Mother Theresa should be canonised then this is a decision directly influenced by God Almighty.Miracles are really irrelevant.
It is heartwarming to see the Faithful interceding to St Theresa for their loved ones in Death Notices.This shows unfettered faith.
Protestants ditched that nonsense almost 500 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64EF3OpA
The papacy is about power. If you ain't playing power you are in the wrong place
Ask any child raped by a priest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3vvn2qOh58
While I don't agree that any of the posts here about Mother Teresa's feet of clay were over the top, could I just point out to all our outraged Catholic posters (a dwindling bunch) that the fury that some apply to religious icons is equal to or less than the vast cynicism and/or perverted glee that Mr Fearon displays in manipulatively using said icons to provoke arguments.
Say what you like about Mother Teresa, I don't think she deserved to end up being slavered over by the ring master of Monsieur Fearon's Macabre Religious Freakshow (TM).
The pope is not infallible. He is human after all. And before you have a pop tiny about me being a non believer or whatever, i am a practising Catholic.
QuoteLook,the Pope is infallible and always acting under the direct influence of God
Rubbish.
The Pope is deemed infallible when "he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church"
So I am afraid making an ethnic Albanian nun with question marks hanging over her a saint doesn't really fall under this remit.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Crm3_W0WYAE8Xl-.jpg)
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 07, 2016, 01:40:11 PM
QuoteLook,the Pope is infallible and always acting under the direct influence of God
Rubbish.
The Pope is deemed infallible when "he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church"
So I am afraid making an ethnic Albanian nun with question marks hanging over her a saint doesn't really fall under this remit.
What's her ethnicity got to do with the price of turnips?
Anyway, is she Saint Mother Theresa, or just Saint Theresa?
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2016, 09:42:56 AM
Protestants ditched that nonsense almost 500 years ago.
Yes they realised that brainwashing works a lot better if the crap your spouting doesn't insult the basic intelligence of the target market.
No wonder Catholicism thrives amidst horrible uneducated poverty.
Quote from: The Gs Man on September 07, 2016, 01:42:50 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Crm3_W0WYAE8Xl-.jpg)
Gimme Shelter Sister.
That version had access to better drugs
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/14212154_300474426992297_8689017304070370199_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=6d628dc520debd67dfdab3718d159ef7&oe=5838972F)
The creation of Saints is not and should not be in the gift of any church or person. If you are a practising catholic you would also understand that prayer should only be offered up to God and not to Saints. Yes it is possible to ask for a Saints intersession, but so many Catholics give devotion to and whorsip Saints in a way that should be reserved for God. Talk of miracles is pure and utter bullshit and I challenge anyone here who thinks otherwise to give me categoric and indisputable proof that any miracle was due to any Saint.
How do we know who is indirectly responsible for miracles or whether an intercession persuaded God? It is a matter of faith and can neither be disproved or proved.
Saint Theresa of Calcutta is now a Saint and accepted as such by billions of Catholics across the globe.Time for the haters to stop hating.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 07, 2016, 06:39:24 PM
How do we know who is indirectly responsible for miracles or whether an intercession persuaded God? It is a matter of faith and can neither be disproved or proved.
Saint Theresa of Calcutta is now a Saint and accepted as such by billions of Catholics across the globe.Time for the haters to stop hating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIQn8pab8Vc
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 07, 2016, 04:22:28 PM
The creation of Saints is not and should not be in the gift of any church or person. If you are a practising catholic you would also understand that prayer should only be offered up to God and not to Saints. Yes it is possible to ask for a Saints intersession, but so many Catholics give devotion to and whorsip Saints in a way that should be reserved for God. Talk of miracles is pure and utter bullshit and I challenge anyone here who thinks otherwise to give me categoric and indisputable proof that any miracle was due to any Saint.
I thought it was more down to the miracle was by God and through the saint rather than by the actual saint
BTW "indisputable proof"??? .....does that exist for anything?
What about all the money though? Where has that gone? Tucked away in a nice wee Vatican account, the true cost of a sainthood
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 07, 2016, 06:39:24 PM
How do we know who is indirectly responsible for miracles or whether an intercession persuaded God? It is a matter of faith and can neither be disproved or proved.
Saint Theresa of Calcutta is now a Saint and accepted as such by billions of Catholics across the globe.Time for the haters to stop hating.
Haters keep hating...f*cking those models but obviously in the Church it isn't models...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh2FRFhS7QY
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
You honestly believe that Tony? You honestly cannot in any way countenance that somewhere along the line there might have been some siphoned off for ahem other purposes?
Is Tony Fearon a saint ? It is a faith thing so there is no logic involved.
Quote from: The Subbie on September 08, 2016, 08:01:43 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
You honestly believe that Tony? You honestly cannot in any way countenance that somewhere along the line there might have been some siphoned off for ahem other purposes?
Taken from Stern magazine
The Angel of the poor died some years ago. Donations still flow in to her Missionaries of Charity like to no other cause. But the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize vowed to live in poverty. What then, happened to so much money?
If there is a heaven, then she is surely there: Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu from Skopje in Macedonia, better known as Mother Teresa. She came to Calcutta on the 6th of Januray 1929 as an 18 year old sister of the Order of Loreto. 68 years later luminaries from all over the world assembled in Calcutta in order to honour her with a state funeral. In these 68 years she had founded the most successful order in the history of the Catholic church, received the Nobel Peace Prize and became the most famous Catholic of our time.
Are doubts permitted, regarding this "monument"?
In Calcutta, one meets many doubters.
For example, Samity, a man of around 30 with no teeth, who lives in the slums. He is one of the "poorest of the poor" to whom Mother Teresa was supposed to have dedicated her life. With a plastic bag in hand, he stands in a kilometre long queue in Calcutta's Park Street. The poor wait patiently, until the helpers shovel some rice and lentils into their bags. But Samity does not get his grub from Mother Teresa's institution, but instead from the Assembly of God, an American charity, that serves 18000 meals here daily.
"Mother Teresa?"says Samity, "We have not received anything from her here. Ask in the slums — who has received anything from the sisters here — you will find hardly anybody."
Pannalal Manik also has doubts. "I don't understand why you educated people in the West have made this woman into such a goddess!" Manik was born some 56 years ago in the Rambagan slum, which at about 300 years of age, is Calcutta's oldest. What Manik has achieved, can well be called a "miracle". He has built 16 apartment buildings in the midst of the slum — living space for 4000 people. Money for the building materials — equivalent to DM 10000 per apartment building — was begged for by Manik from the Ramakrishna Mission [a Indian/Hindu charity], the largest assistance-organisation in India. The slum-dwellers built the buildings themselves. It has become a model for the whole of India. But what about Mother Teresa? "I went to her place 3 times," said Manik. "She did not even listen to what I had to say. Everyone on earth knows that the sisters have a lot of money. But no one knows what they do with it!"
In Calcutta there are about 200 charitable organisations helping the poor. Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity are not amongst the biggest helpers: that contradicts the image of the organisation. The name "Mother Teresa" was and is tied to the city of Calcutta. All over the world admirers and supporters of the Nobel Prize winner believe that it must be there that her organisation is particularly active in the fight against poverty. "All lies," says Aroup Chatterjee ( truthweb@writeme.com . The doctor who lives in London was born and brought up in Calcutta. Chatterjee who has been working for years on a book on the myth of Mother Teresa, speaks to the poor in the slums of Calcutta, or combs through the speeches of the Nobel Prize winner. "No matter where I search, I only find lies. For example the lies about schools. Mother T has often stated that she runs a school in Calcutta for more than 5000 children. 5000 children! — that would have to be a huge school, one of the biggest in all of India. But where is this school? I have never found it, nor do I know anybody who has seen it!" says Chatterjee.
Compared to other charitable organisations in Calcutta, the nuns with the 3 blue stripes are ahead in two respects: they are world famous, and, they have the most money. But how much exactly, has always been a closely guarded secret of the organisation. Indian law requires charitable organisations to publish their accounts. Mother Teresa's organisation ignores this prescription! It is not known if the Finance Ministry in Delhi who would be responsible for charities' accounts, have the actual figures. Upon STERN's inquiry, the Ministry informed us that this particular query was listed as "classified information".
The organisation has 6 branches in Germany. Here too financial matters are a strict secret. "It's nobody's business how much money we have, I mean to say how little we have," says Sr Pauline, head of the German operations. Maria Tingelhoff had had handled the organisation's book-keeping on a voluntary basis until 1981. "We did see 3 million a year," she remembers. But Mother Teresa never quite trusted the worldly helpers completely. So the sisters took over the financial management themselves in 1981. "Of course I don't know how much money went in, in the years after that, but it must be many multiples of 3 million," estimates Mrs Tingelhoff. "Mother was always very pleased with the Germans."
Perhaps the most lucrative branch of the organisation is the "Holy Ghost" House in New York's Bronx. Susan Shields served the order there for a total of nine and a half years as Sister Virgin. "We spent a large part of each day writing thank you letters and processing cheques," she says. "Every night around 25 sisters had to spend many hours preparing receipts for donations. It was a conveyor belt process: some sisters typed, others made lists of the amounts, stuffed letters into envelopes, or sorted the cheques. Values were between $5 and $100.000. Donors often dropped their envelopes filled with money at the door. Before Christmas the flow of donations was often totally out of control. The postman brought sackfuls of letters — cheques for $50000 were no rarity." Sister Virgin remebers that one year there was about $50 million in a New York bank account. $50 million in one year! — in a predominantly non-Catholic country. How much then, were they collecting in Europe or the world? It is estimated that worldwide they collected at least $100 million per year — and that has been going on for many many years.
While the income is utter secret, the expenditures are equally mysterious. The order is hardly able to spend large amounts. The establishments supported by the nuns are so tiny (inconspicuous) that even the locals have difficulty tracing them. Often "Mother Teresa's Home" means just a living accomodation for the sisters, with no charitable funstion. Conspicuous or useful assistance cannot be provided there. The order often receives huge donations in kind, in addition to the monetary munificence. Boxes of medicines land at Indian airports. Donated foograins and powdered milk arrive in containers at Calcutta port. Clothing donations from Europe and the US arrive in unimaginable quantities. On Calcutta's pavement stalls, traders can be seen sellin used western labels for 25 rupees (DM1) apiece. Numerous traders call out, "Shirts from Mother, trousers from Mother."
Unlike with other charities, the Missionaries of Charity spend very little on their own management, since the organisation is run at practically no cost. The approximately 4000 sisters in 150 countries form the most treasured workforce of all global multi-million dollar operations. Having taken vows of poverty and obedience, they work for no pay, supported by 300,000 good citizen helpers.
By their own admission, Mother Teresa's organisation has about 500 locations worldwide. But for purchase or rent of property, the sisters do not need to touch their bank accounts. "Mother always said, we don't spend for that," remembers Sunita Kumar, one the richest women in Calcutta and supposedly Mother T's closest associate outside the order. "If Mother needed a house, she went straight to the owner, whether it was the State or a private person, and worked on him for so long that she eventually got it free."
Her method was also successful in Germany.In March the "Bethlehem House" was dedicated in Hamburg, a shelter for homeless women. Four sisters work there. The archtecturally conspicuous building cost DM2.5 million. The fortunes of the order have not spent a penny toward the amount. The money was collected by a Christian association in Hamburg. With Mother T as figure head it was naturally short work to collect the millions.
Mother Teresa saw it as as her God given right never to have to pay anyone for anything. Once she bought food for her nuns in London for GB£500. When she was told she'd have to pay at the till, the diminutive seemingly harmless nun showed her Balkan temper and shouted, "This is for the work of God!" She raged so loud and so long that eventually a businessman waiting in the queue paid up on her behalf.
England is one of the few countries where the sisters allow the authorities at least a quick glance at their accounts. Here the order took in DM5.3 million in 1991. And expenses (including charitable expenses)? — around DM360,000 or less than 7%. Whatever happened to the rest of the money? Sister Teresina, the head for England, defensively states, "Sorry we can't tell you that." Every year, according to the returns filed with the British authorities, a portion of the fortune is sent to accounts of the order in other countries. How much to which countries is not declared. One of the recipients is however, always Rome. The fortune of this famous charitable organistaion is controlled from Rome, — from an account at the Vatican bank. And what happens with monies at the Vatican Bank is so secret that even God is not allowed to know about it. One thing is sure however — Mother's outlets in poor countries do not benefit from largesse of the rich countries. The official biographer of Mother Teresa, Kathryn Spink, writes, "As soon as the sisters became established in a certain country, Mother normally withdrew all financial support." Branches in very needy countries therefore only receive start-up assistance. Most of the money remains in the Vatican Bank.
STERN asked the Missionaries of Charity numerous times for information about location of the donations, both in writing as well in person during a visit to Mother Teresa's house in Calcutta. The order has never answered.
"You should visit the House in New York, then you'll understand what happens to donations," sayssays Eva Kolodziej. The Polish lady was a Missionary of Charity for 5 years. "In the cellar of the homeless shelter there are valuable books, jewellery and gold. What happens to them? — The sisters receive them with smiles, and keep them. Most of these lie around uselessly forever."
The millions that are donated to the order have a similar fate. Susan Shields (formerly Sr Virgin) says, "The money was not misused, but the largest part of it wasn't used at all. When there was a famine in Ethiopia, many cheques arrived marked 'for the hungry in Ethiopia'. Once I asked the sister who was in charge of accounts if I should add up all those very many cheques and send the total to Ethiopia. The sister answered, 'No, we don't send money to Africa.' But I continued to make receipts to the donors, 'For Ethiopia'."
By the accounts of former sisters, the finances are a one way street. "We were always told, the fact that we receive more than other orders, shows that God loves Mother Teresa more. ," says Susan Shields. Donations and hefty bank balances are a measure of God's love. Taking is holier than giving.
The sufferers are the ones for whom the donations were originally intended. The nuns run a soup kitchen in New York's Bronx. Or, to put in straight, they have it run for them, since volunteer helpers organise everything, including food. The sisters might distribute it. Once, Shields remembers, the helpers made an organisational mistake, so they could not deliver bread with their meals. The sisters asked their superior if they could buy the bread. "Out of the question — we are a poor organisation." came the reply. "In the end, the poor did not get their bread," says Shields. Shields has experienced countless such incidents. One girl from communion class did not appear for her first communion because her mothet could not buy her a white communion dress. So she had to wait another year; but as that particular Sunday approached, she had the same problem again. Shields (Sr Virgin) asked the superior if the order could buy the girl a white dress. Again, she was turned down — gruffly. The girl never had her first communion.
Because of the tightfistedness of the rich order, the "poorest of the poor" — orphans in India — suffer the most. The nuns run a home in Delhi, in which the orphans wait to be adopted by, in many cases, by foreigners. As usual, the costs of running the home are borne not by the order, but by the future adoptive parents. In Germany the organisation called Pro Infante has the monopoly of mediation role for these children. The head, Carla Wiedeking, a personal friend of Mother Teresa's, wrote a letter to Donors, Supporters and Friends which ran:
"On my September vist I had to witness 2 or 3 children lying in the same cot, in totally overcrowded rooms with not a square inch of playing space. The behavioural problems arising as a result cannot be overlooked." Mrs Wiedeking appeals to the generosity of supporters in view of her powerlessness in the face of the children's great needs. Powerlessness?! In an organisation with a billion-fortune, which has 3 times as much money available to it as UNICEF is able to spend in all of India? The Missionaries of Charity has have the means to buy cots and build orphanages, — with playgrounds. And they have enoungh money not only for a handful orphans in Delhi but for many thousand orphans who struggle for survival in the streets of Delhi, Bombay and Calcutta.
Saving, in Mother Teresa's philosophy, was a central value in itself. All very well, but as her poor organisation quickly grew into a rich one, what did she do with her pictures, jewels, inherited houses, cheques or suitcases full of money? If she wished to she could now cater to people not by obsessively indulging in saving, but instead through well thought-out spending. But the Nobel Prize winner did not want an efficient organisation that helped people efficiently. Full of pride, she called the Missionaries of Charity the "most disorganised organisation in the world". Computers, typewriters, photocopiers are not allowed. Even when they are donated, they are not allowed to be installed. For book-keeping the sisters use school notebooks, in which they write in cramped pencilled figures. Until they are full. Then everything is erased and the notebook used again. All in order to save.
For a sustainable charitable system, it would have been sensible to train the nuns to become nurses, teachers or managers. But a Missionary of Charity nun is never trained for anything further.
Fueklled by her desire for un-professionalism, Mother Teresa decisions from year to year became even more bizarre. Once, says Susan Shields, the order bought am empty building from the City of New York in order to look after AIDS patients. Purchase price: 1 dollar. But since handicapped people would also be using the house, NY City management insisted on the installation of a lift (elevator). The offer of the lift was declined: to Mother they were a sign of wealth. Finally the nuns gave the building back to the City of New York.
While the Missionaries of Charity have already witheld help from the starving in Ethiopia or the orphans in India — despite having received donations in their names — there are others who are being actively harmed by the organisation's ideology of disorganisation. In 1994, Robin Fox, editor of the prestigious medical journal Lancet, in a commentary on the catastrophic conditions prevailing in Mother Teresa's homes, shocked the professional world by saying that any systematic operation was foreign to the running of the homes in India: TB patients were not isolated, and syringes were washed in lukewarm water before being used again. Even patients in unbearable pain were refused strong painkillers, not because the order did not have them, but on principle. "The most beautiful gift for a person is that he can participate in the suffering of Christ," said Mother Teresa. Once she had tried to comfort a screaming sufferer, "You are suffering, that means Jesus is kissing you." The sufferer screamed back, furious, "Then tell your Jesus to stop kissing me."
The English doctor Jack Preger once worked in the home for the dying. He says, "If one wants to give love, understanding and care, one uses sterile needles. This is probably the richest order in the world. Many of the dying there do not have to be dying in a strictly medical sense." The British newspaper Guardian described the hospice as an "organised form of neglectful assistance".
It seems that the medical care of the orphans is hardly any better. In 1991 the head of Pro Infante in Germany sent a newsletter to adoptive parents:"Please check the validity of the vaccinations of your children. We assume that in some case they have been vaccinated with expired vaccines, or with vaccines that had been rendered useless by improper strotage conditions." All this points to one thing, something that Mother Teresa reiterated very frequently in her speeches and addresses — that she far more concerened with life after death than the mortal life.
Mother Teresa's business was : Money for a good conscience. The donors benefitted the most from this. The poor hardly. Whosoever believed that Mother Teresa wanted to cahnge the world, eliminate suffering or fight poverty, simply wanted to believe it for their own sakes. Such people did not listen to her. To be poor, to suffer was a goal, almost an ambition or an achievement for her and she imposed this goal upon those under her wings; her actual ordained goal was the hereafter.
With growing fame, the founder of the order became somewhat conscious of the misconceptioons on which the Mother Teresa phenomenon was based. She wrote a few words and hung them outside Mother House:
"Tell them we are not here for work, we are here for Jesus. We are religious above all else. We are not social workers, not teachers, not doctors. We are nuns."
One question then remains: For what, in that case, do nuns need so much money?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 07, 2016, 06:39:24 PM
How do we know who is indirectly responsible for miracles or whether an intercession persuaded God? It is a matter of faith and can neither be disproved or proved.
Saint Theresa of Calcutta is now a Saint and accepted as such by billions of Catholics across the globe.Time for the haters to stop hating.
I am no hater, but she ain't no Saint
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Trocaire money goes to pay the inflated wages of its executive's , like most Irish "charity" organisations.
Interesting article Subbie.
I looked up Stern to see what sort of publication it is and I can't make my mind up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_(magazine) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_(magazine))
I remember a leadership course I was on years ago. We were asked who we would rather have as a leader, Mother Teresa, Norman Schwartzkopf or some other famous person at the time. Most people said Mother Teresa. After a presentation on each of the three, we were asked again. No one said Mother Teresa.
That is not to say she wasn't a good leader. She was a phenomenal leader. But I wouldn't want to work for her.
Quote from: The Subbie on September 08, 2016, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Trocaire money goes to pay the inflated wages of its executive's , like most Irish "charity" organisations.
Trocaire is fairly decent compared to other charidees
Regarding papal infallibility
"She was pronounced clinically dead on December 3rd last, her condition is deteriorating and she displays puffiness of the torso, an open head wound, rotting brain, and also has several infections. A number of medical experts have said the prospect of the foetus surviving intact is small even if treatment continues."
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2016, 09:45:22 AM
Quote from: The Subbie on September 08, 2016, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Trocaire money goes to pay the inflated wages of its executive's , like most Irish "charity" organisations.
Trocaire is fairly decent compared to other charidees
Let's face it, the bar , in that particular sector , is not high !
Quote from: The Subbie on September 08, 2016, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Trocaire money goes to pay the inflated wages of its executive's , like most Irish "charity" organisations.
Ah c'mon - you can't post stuff like that. Have you actually bothered your hole researching this?
Their annual report says 93% of their fundraising (i.e. 93% of €66mill) goes to chaitable causes. So, unless I am very much mistaken, your comment is nonsense.
Ciao from Roma.Heading up to Vatican later.Will pray for you all that your hard heartedness and cynicism may diminish.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 12:46:41 PM
Ciao from Roma.Heading up to Vatican later.Will pray for you all that your hard heartedness and cynicism may diminish.
Check out Grindr activity rates around the Citta for us, Tony . Apparently they are very high
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on September 08, 2016, 12:21:00 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on September 08, 2016, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 05:54:56 AM
The money was used to help the poor.No clergy benefited from it.You might as well ask where the Trocaire money goes.
Everyone with half a brain knows that the Trocaire money goes to pay the inflated wages of its executive's , like most Irish "charity" organisations.
Ah c'mon - you can't post stuff like that. Have you actually bothered your hole researching this?
Their annual report says 93% of their fundraising (i.e. 93% of €66mill) goes to chaitable causes. So, unless I am very much mistaken, your comment is nonsense.
Console probably made the same claims.
If I'm wrong , sound, in a way I hope I am , but I'm extremely cynical about anything to do with the charidee sector.
Too many of them are utterly utterly discredited in my eyes, far far too many failed politicos of all hues and their hangers on seem to do the rounds there and cream off a nice living there.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 08, 2016, 12:46:41 PM
Ciao from Roma.Heading up to Vatican later.Will pray for you all that your hard heartedness and cynicism may diminish.
I will let you know if your prayers work!
Anyway, hope you have a good time.
God Bless You! Good night in prospect! Nile Rogers playing free open air concert in Piazza Del Popolo!!🤗
Quote from: LCohen on September 06, 2016, 10:31:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
How could I predict comments from other posters.I was only expressing my happiness that a nun with strong links to Ireland North and South,was deservedly canonised.
That this precipitated such a venomous reaction is genuinely disturbing but is not my fault in any way shape or form.
Are you saying that the posts and links about letting people die without medical treatment and reject basic medical practices re hygiene and infection controls are venomous lies or are you accepting that they are true but that its venomous to point out the truth?
This needs a straight answer
Tony gone quiet in Rome. Maybe the boys that did for John Paul I have put an end to the Fearon embarrassment.
Back home late last night.Spiritually enriched after my visit.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 11, 2016, 10:17:45 PM
Back home late last night.Spiritually enriched after my visit.
And online and answering the questions obviously
Quote from: LCohen on September 06, 2016, 10:31:25 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 06, 2016, 06:21:57 PM
How could I predict comments from other posters.I was only expressing my happiness that a nun with strong links to Ireland North and South,was deservedly canonised.
That this precipitated such a venomous reaction is genuinely disturbing but is not my fault in any way shape or form.
Are you saying that the posts and links about letting people die without medical treatment and reject basic medical practices re hygiene and infection controls are venomous lies or are you accepting that they are true but that its venomous to point out the truth?
This needs a straight answer
I think Tony's failure to answer this question despite several reminders tells all that we need to know about Tony.
There is not a shred of integrity in that man
Was she clinically trained and fully aware of hygienic standards? Are these prevalent throughout the Third World? Did she have the resources for an all singing and dancing health system? Just think of the thousands of lives her intervention saved.
Tony, your ignorance is staggering
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
Was she clinically trained
You know that she wasn't. But then again nor am I but I know not to re-use needles. If I was in the position of "treating" a high volume of people, some of whom were known drug users then I would know the vital importance of sterilisation and disposability. And I am just a normal human. I'm not one of these people that god conducts miracles through
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
fully aware of hygienic standards?
I think we have to assume that she took her role seriously. Unless you are arguing otherwise?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
Are these prevalent throughout the Third World?
Knowledge of the practices is widely known. Mother Teresa was aware of them. But she argues that the people were sent to her to die and didn't need these practices
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
Did she have the resources for an all singing and dancing health system?
I think we can agree that Mother Teresa's decision to turn away offers of free medicines was staggering. When sat alongside her willingness to accept cash irrespective of the source then serious questions come to the fore
Quote from: T Fearon on September 16, 2016, 01:45:32 PM
Just think of the thousands of lives her intervention saved.
Name 1.
By her own admission she never tried to save a single life
You're caught my boy!
All crap from atheists trying to discredit here.The Nobel Peace Price is the secular world's true testimony to her saintly life marked by devotion to the poor and tending the sick
How anyone could say a bad word about this wonderful human being is beyond me, castigate mother Theresa and be a Hillary supporter speaks volumes about some on here!
Is it beyond you to find out why they might stew? Obviously is ::)
Quote from: theskull1 on September 19, 2016, 08:55:01 AM
Is it beyond you to find out why they might stew? Obviously is ::)
She was human and as such was flawed, made mistakes like anyone else, what you cannot take away from her is the fact she did much to help countless people in Calcutta and dedicated her entire life to serving the people of that city.
Her legacy is a great one, far better than the one I or anyone else on this board will ever leave, as for being a saint? Not for me but obviously for others.
Its sounds as if you can see why
Quote from: theskull1 on September 20, 2016, 10:47:53 AM
Its sounds as if you can see why
Some atheists cannot give credit to any person of faith no matter how much they contribute to the world! Pathetic really.
Christians, Muslims, Atheists and people from all races and creeds have contributed to the human condition, Mother Theresa leaves a tremendous Legacy and is a hero to many and deserves respect.
"Do you teach the poor to endure their lot?" She replied: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."
Her words
Anyone who believes this is not someone the poor need as their champion.
Quote from: stew on September 19, 2016, 03:18:39 AM
How anyone could say a bad word about this wonderful human being is beyond me, castigate mother Theresa and be a Hillary supporter speaks volumes about some on here!
Hillary is a saint. People often mention Jesus Christ when they think of her. She would make a wonderful Celtic manager
On the face of it this nun appears to have done a lot of good, which is in keeping with her calling. but a Saint? No and the Church is a laughing stock with the creation of all this latter-day supposed Saints.
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 06:09:08 PM
Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?
Can you point to that in the Bible?
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
Maybe in Calvinist churches, but not the Catholic church where scripture would be considered more in need of interpretation as it is all in context of time and situation
Papal infallibility is incompatible with bureaucracy and misogyny. JP2 was a chancer.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
Maybe in Calvinist churches, but not the Catholic church where scripture would be considered more in need of interpretation as it is all in context of time and situation
Why did Jesus leave so much open to interpretation according to some who interpret His word? Surely anyone can see that such system would be open to abuse.
Think about it, why is the greatest authority in the universe, i.e. The Word of God, left wide to open to interpretation by every crackpot ever born? What is the point of that? Why bother??
Well if it didnt need interpretation I would be spending my life making a needle large enough for a camel to pass thru and picking up rattling snakes like those eejits in the bible belt.
Everything needs interpretation some things more so than others
Besides the bible is not the only postulate for catholic doctrine,... faith is probably more important than scripture.
Your moving on with the why bother question? I bother because I have faith. How about you? Why bother with it if you arent bothered by it?
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
Maybe in Calvinist churches, but not the Catholic church where scripture would be considered more in need of interpretation as it is all in context of time and situation
Why did Jesus leave so much open to interpretation according to some who interpret His word? Surely anyone can see that such system would be open to abuse.
Think about it, why is the greatest authority in the universe, i.e. The Word of God, left wide to open to interpretation by every crackpot ever born? What is the point of that? Why bother??
The prophets operated between the bronze and iron ages.
They had a limited understanding of things
They probably were a great bunch of lads but I wouldn't live off a Bronze age diet
Climate change will destroy the monotheistic religions
Quote from: seafoid on September 21, 2016, 07:11:21 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:41:47 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:33:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
Maybe in Calvinist churches, but not the Catholic church where scripture would be considered more in need of interpretation as it is all in context of time and situation
Why did Jesus leave so much open to interpretation according to some who interpret His word? Surely anyone can see that such system would be open to abuse.
Think about it, why is the greatest authority in the universe, i.e. The Word of God, left wide to open to interpretation by every crackpot ever born? What is the point of that? Why bother??
The prophets operated between the bronze and iron ages.
They had a limited understanding of things
They probably were a great bunch of lads but I wouldn't live off a Bronze age diet
Climate change will destroy the monotheistic religions
You do come out with some good ones seafoid which I mostly ignore but you hooked me this time
I think Id rather live off a bronze age diet than a modern one to be honest. In fact arent we going even further back than that now with the paleo diet
Your last line is pretty funny. Although I suppose it fits in nicely on your belief that humans will be extinct in 100 years from climate change so I suppose all religions will go with them maybe your thinking the other ones will live on thru reincarnation?.
Why would you live off a Bronze Age religion?
As for the interpretation, the 'Eye of the Needle' is accepted as a metaphor from the era, by every religion I have heard of.
Unfortunately for lots of people down the ages, most of the rest of the Bible is not accepted as anything other than 'The Word of God'.
Joe the big 3 monotheistic religions all have this inbuilt notion of progress. And climate change will show that to be nonsense.
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2016, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on September 19, 2016, 08:55:01 AM
Is it beyond you to find out why they might stew? Obviously is ::)
She was human and as such was flawed, made mistakes like anyone else, what you cannot take away from her is the fact she did much to help countless people in Calcutta and dedicated her entire life to serving the people of that city.
Her legacy is a great one, far better than the one I or anyone else on this board will ever leave, as for being a saint? Not for me but obviously for others.
That bit is very much in doubt
Quote from: stew on September 20, 2016, 11:17:22 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on September 20, 2016, 10:47:53 AM
Its sounds as if you can see why
Some atheists cannot give credit to any person of faith no matter how much they contribute to the world! Pathetic really.
Christians, Muslims, Atheists and people from all races and creeds have contributed to the human condition, Mother Theresa leaves a tremendous Legacy and is a hero to many and deserves respect.
How do you account for the evidence to the contrary?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"
I find that view dangerous.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 06:09:08 PM
Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?
Does anyone understand papal infallibility?
Did it exist from the start? Some belting decisions of the pontifs are going to be difficult to reconcile with the infallibility tag?
Or did it only exist when Pius IX got a bit upity? How do we know we was being infallible when he reached this decision?
On a not directly related issue,my 87 year old father was recently honoured for 50 years service to St Vincent De Paul Society.He is to be featured in a forthcoming article in the Irish Catholic.Truly proud Moment for the family.He and my late mother were privileged to meet Pope John Paul II in Rome back in the late 80s.
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 08:14:46 PM
Why would you live off a Bronze Age religion?
As for the interpretation, the 'Eye of the Needle' is accepted as a metaphor from the era, by every religion I have heard of.
Unfortunately for lots of people down the ages, most of the rest of the Bible is not accepted as anything other than 'The Word of God'.
Maybe it was, maybe it wasnt, it certainly is these days due to interpretation as I said. And everything that Jesus said was all said within a certain context so that has to be weighed up as well.
The last time I went to mass it was 21th century. Besides Christianity was born in the historical era not the Bronze age, and religion can be traced back to the birth of Civilization. I also drink beer and eat bread like those in the Bronze age, I presume you dont consume those?
Anyway Ive been through this numerous times with you I follow the religion because I feel it best reflects my faith and spirituality nothing to do with what era it came from.
And more to the point what has this got to do with the criteria for Mother Theresa's canonisation?
It appears that despite continually trying to divert every religious discussion into divulging personal aspects of my faith on the internet (which I am obviously quite willing to do) you continue to avoid the questions about your own faith? Perhaps you could give me a small insight... Do you believe that there is a spiritual aspect to yourself?
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 08:48:39 PM
On a not directly related issue,my 87 year old father was recently honoured for 50 years service to St Vincent De Paul Society.He is to be featured in a forthcoming article in the Irish Catholic.Truly proud Moment for the family.He and my late mother were privileged to meet Pope John Paul II in Rome back in the late 80s.
Actually it is "directly related". Its directly related to you and whats this thread all about??????
Quote from: smelmoth on September 21, 2016, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"
I find that view dangerous.
Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities
What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances
Quote from: seafoid on September 21, 2016, 08:17:10 PM
Joe the big 3 monotheistic religions all have this inbuilt notion of progress. And climate change will show that to be nonsense.
Progress, I do wonder if you are a bot sometimes
But would the end of the human race not be far bigger factor in their demise?
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 09:06:14 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on September 21, 2016, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"
I find that view dangerous.
Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities
What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances
The drugs were simple. Acute pain relief and anti-biotics.
The missionaries of charity operate at the same time and in the same locations as other charities. It had greater resources and yet spent less on medicine. Why would that be? This was the 1980s, 90s and into the current century. The drugs are well established, widely used and the missionaries of charity don't lack the resources to buy them never mind accepting donations.
Why provide aspirin to those in the throws of cancer but turn away donations of acute pain relief? Why not use pain relief even if it was bought?
Why turn away anti-biotics that can treat a disease when you also don't refer the patient to hospitals that do provide proper treatment? And more to the point why would be a policy of not referring on to the available hospitals? Is this lined to the dogma that poverty is a gift from god, necessary in building character and that the people were sent to her to die? There were and are hospitals available. Many operated by western charities. Why not use them if the defence is that we are not medically trained?
Why re-use needles? Why wash needles in cold water and not sterilise them? Its not as if the means was not available to the missionaries of charity
We don't even have to get into where the donations were coming from. After all Mother Teresa wasn't picky as to where the cash came from. And on't accept Tony's crap that MT was taking it from the gangsters to put it to good use. She did more than take their money. She shared the platform and spoke in the favour of barbarous tyrants. She helped them do their thing
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 08:48:39 PM
On a not directly related issue,my 87 year old father was recently honoured for 50 years service to St Vincent De Paul Society.He is to be featured in a forthcoming article in the Irish Catholic.
Fair play to him Tony, the organisation does good work.
Quote from: smelmoth on September 21, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 09:06:14 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on September 21, 2016, 08:35:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
So if someone set up a hospice today, staffed it with volunteers with little medical qualification and the proceeded to turn away medicines, turn away medical assistance even after been told that the medical and hygiene practices were not up to snuff and actually endangering life, withheld medicines and said that people were sent to the hospice by god to die and treatment was not necessary, you would say "crack on"
I find that view dangerous.
Thatnks for telling me my opinion. Obviously not in Ireland in the 21st century where those services are available. But we are talking about India in the mid 20th century where people would have been lying rotting in the street only for her charities
What was the drugs? Was there any1 in her facilities trained in administering them? Large pharmaceutical companies give away drugs to poor populations in the 3rd world before releasing them in the West as a sort of large scale trail? What was the circumstances
The drugs were simple. Acute pain relief and anti-biotics.
The missionaries of charity operate at the same time and in the same locations as other charities. It had greater resources and yet spent less on medicine. Why would that be? This was the 1980s, 90s and into the current century. The drugs are well established, widely used and the missionaries of charity don't lack the resources to buy them never mind accepting donations.
Why provide aspirin to those in the throws of cancer but turn away donations of acute pain relief? Why not use pain relief even if it was bought?
Why turn away anti-biotics that can treat a disease when you also don't refer the patient to hospitals that do provide proper treatment? And more to the point why would be a policy of not referring on to the available hospitals? Is this lined to the dogma that poverty is a gift from god, necessary in building character and that the people were sent to her to die? There were and are hospitals available. Many operated by western charities. Why not use them if the defence is that we are not medically trained?
Why re-use needles? Why wash needles in cold water and not sterilise them? Its not as if the means was not available to the missionaries of charity
We don't even have to get into where the donations were coming from. After all Mother Teresa wasn't picky as to where the cash came from. And on't accept Tony's crap that MT was taking it from the gangsters to put it to good use. She did more than take their money. She shared the platform and spoke in the favour of barbarous tyrants. She helped them do their thing
Im not saying they couldnt have improved their methods and management especially if they where doing things like washing dirty needles in cold water, but are we all not continually complaining about our own Health service? And was it policy to do this or was there just not a clear instructions, I doubt if they had too many detailed procedures in the place, in fact I am sure it would have fairly disorganised leading to mishaps and unintended consequences.
20th century 21 century people are still rotting in the streets in India.
Again what were the drugs and did they need a medical professional to administer them? Lots of those NGO hospitals are rife with the pharmaceutical companies testing Im talking about. And what was the exact circumstances and reason given for not moving patients on? Where patients never moved?
Is there an actual reason for some of the things that you are accusing or are you just lumping it all in to this suffering thing for handiness? It seems like there was a premeditated attempt to smear Mother Theresa as some sort of sadist by opportunistic antireligous journalists in England. It seems that there was no attempt to pursue explanations from the organisation or what their current policy is....... But more to the point there was no attempt to analyse how those people would have fared without their help.
And as I said Im not saying she or her organisation was perfect but what I am saying is that she did alot of good work in areas that needed her help and those people would have been a lot worse of than without their help. Im sure we can both agree to that?
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 06:18:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 21, 2016, 06:06:57 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 21, 2016, 05:56:34 PM
She appears to have met the churchs criteria for a saint so why would they not make her one?
Alot of shite talked here like Mother Theresa was a medical professional running a hospice or hospital. Her charities were performed by nuns with litle or no professional training so of course their medical services are not going to be on a a par with a modern hospital. But a medical hospital couldn't afford to provide the care coverage in the way her charities did.
As for her statement about the poor I dont agree with i,t but Im looking at it from a bigger picture than her. She is not a politician she was just someone who saw the poor and helped them so i understand where she was coming from. Imagine a Christian nurse wading into India and telling their culture and traditions need to be changed, she would likely have been burned out of it.
This is a good place to start.
Can you reference the Bible's criteria on saints?
Whats the bible got to do with it?
For a start, to answer Tony's question, Papal Infallibility cannot conflict with scripture. So that is why I was asking where the church's criteria for Sainthood comes from. Because if it isn't in the Bible, it is garbage under the church's own rules.
It is like employee of the month.
The Church''s audience is no longer in Europe despite the sterling efforts of Tony. It is in poorer countries in Latin America, Africa and bits of Asia where people are less likely to question the process.
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 06:09:08 PM
Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?
The Pope can only invoke infallibility on matters of faith, I didn't think that covered saints. But how f**king arrogant of any human being to take on the notion that he is infallible delusions of being God without any foundation in scripture and embarrassing.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 22, 2016, 08:58:11 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 21, 2016, 06:09:08 PM
Don't you understand Papal infallibility thus his unique powers to confer sainthood?
The Pope can only invoke infallibility on matters of faith, I didn't think that covered saints. But how f**king arrogant of any human being to take on the notion that he is infallible delusions of being God without any foundation in scripture and embarrassing.
Are all the popes infallible? What about the ones that covered up the child abuse or the Borgias who had mistresses and illegitimate children etc?
Some of the voices still revering MT despite the evidence and ethical arguments being put forward should remember that Jimmy Saville (he's the new hitler ya know ;) ) also helped a lot of people.
The evidence is she set up a religous congregation to assist people who where the the poorest of the poor in the poorest countires, and inspired many others to do the same.
I fail to see the connection to those motivated by ethnic cleansing and child abuse myself, but sure knock yerself out.
The connection is that you are choosing to cast your gaze only in certain directions so as to claim her saintliness as a person whilst at the same time giving no weight to the arguments that others are using to claim she is the opposite.
Similar to how someone would look at the thousands of people Jimmy Saville helped through all his fundraising and jim'll fix it's and chose to define him as a great person.
Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.
MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.
So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 03:11:29 PM
The evidence is she set up a religous congregation to assist people who where the the poorest of the poor in the poorest countires, and inspired many others to do the same.
I fail to see the connection to those motivated by ethnic cleansing and child abuse myself, but sure knock yerself out.
Personally I'm not disputing any of this. I do dispute the Pope's right to declare her a Saint.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.
MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.
So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.
Of course I'm not comparing like for like ... don't be silly man
MTs aim was to assist the poor and dying and as a result of her belief that suffering would be what Christ wanted for the poor, she was happy to draw the line at the level of care they provided and whore herself on the global stage with the highest bidder to pay for it giving no regard to where and who the money was coming from. That's a perserve form of kindness, to point of being sadistic if you ask me.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 22, 2016, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.
MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.
So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.
Of course I'm not comparing like for like ... don't be silly man
MTs aim was to assist the poor and dying and as a result of her belief that suffering would be what Christ wanted for the poor, she was happy to draw the line at the level of care they provided and whore herself on the global stage with the highest bidder to pay for it giving no regard to where and who the money was coming from. That's a perserve form of kindness, to point of being sadistic if you ask me.
Yeah so why use the Saville analogy?
And so now you've acceptted that its a load of tosh you decide to call a woman who remained celebaite her whole life a whore? Forgive me if I get the distinct impression that you are trying to castigate MT in a way that is contrary to what she actualy was.
While I would accept that the dying should have got pain relief and Im sure some at least probably did not, Ive never seen anyone say this was policy and to stretch this even further into the notion that it was a policy founded in MTs personal view on pain is putting 2 and 2 together to get 5.
As for using the funds to go globe trekking, she headed a global organisation and was the single best asset for raising funds and for spreading her message. If you are trying to depict her as some sort of international jet setter perhaps bare in mind when she started her work in the slums she had to beg herself.
But if you think MT was a sadist I'll disagree and say you'll entitled to your deluded opinion which I suspect is based mostly on a desire to deride and ridicule anything religous. Ill say my opinion is that she was a great philanthropist and humanitarian who was not without her faults like the rest of us... and we will leave it at that
With regard to MT and the level of care she provided I would point out the importance of suffering, pain, karma and reincarnation in all of this. Do you know that MT was often stopped by locals from helping the dying and the suffering? Why? Because it interfered with karma and reincarnation and natural death.
Do you know that today true Hindu's are a real struggle for modern health care practitioners? That they rarely allow medical intervention and only allow certain types of pain medication?
All this is a HUGE part of how MT approached the dying and what she was permitted to do.
Some of the comments on here are atrocious. I've seen people talk bad about a GAA man who died or a GAA man who turned to gay porn and the collective board were up in arms. MT was one of the greatest humanitarians we've seen - if you have nothing but hate or bad things to say then you're probably the very person she would have helped...
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."
You can do things which could be considered sadistic with an irrational mindset like this. Her belief system was rooted deeply in religious teaching, and 'explains away' why she wouldn't strive for the betterment of those she was caring for. I think we all know that those misguided beliefs brought cruelty to the poor (relative to the standard of care she should have been fighting for them).
You boys should be a bit more discerning when it comes to choosing who to hero worship
Whats irrational about it if that what she believes? Far more irrational for me would be to give up a cushy life as a teacher to go and work in disease ridden slums with nothing in return.
MT brought cruelty to the poor???? Ive heard it all now :D
Your obviously of the opinion that she shouldn't have bothered...left them to rot in the street?
As I mentioned before She didn't see herself as a politician or ending poverty as part of her remit. Rather she saw herself as someone who would assist and tend to the poor.
There could be countless reasons for this the most obvious to me would be getting involved in a culture clash with the locals or a distraction from her true vocation. Whatever the reason I fail to see what religious teaching would have to do with it as Catholic teaching would be very much pointed towards alleviating poverty.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 07:44:24 PM
Whats irrational about it if that what she believes? Far more irrational for me would be to give up a cushy life as a teacher to go and work in disease ridden slums with nothing in return.
MT brought cruelty to the poor???? Ive heard it all now :D
Your obviously of the opinion that she shouldn't have bothered...left them to rot in the street?
As I mentioned before She didn't see herself as a politician or ending poverty as part of her remit. Rather she saw herself as someone who would assist and tend to the poor.
There could be countless reasons for this the most obvious to me would be getting involved in a culture clash with the locals or a distraction from her true vocation. Whatever the reason I fail to see what religious teaching would have to do with it as Catholic teaching would be very much pointed towards alleviating poverty.
Sending them to a hospital where actual care was available would have been a good alternative, wouldn't you say?
Has this been posted yet? Sorry if it has, but it bears repeating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4)
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 07:44:24 PM
Whats irrational about it if that what she believes?
::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrationality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrationality)
Who's next to be revered?...... Annie Wilkes? ;D
Annie Wilkes: God came to me last night and told me your purpose for being here. I am going to help you write a new book.
Paul Sheldon: You think I can just whip one out?
Annie Wilkes: Oh, but I don't think Paul, I know.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 23, 2016, 08:51:30 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 07:44:24 PM
Whats irrational about it if that what she believes?
::)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrationality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrationality)
Who's next to be revered?...... Annie Wilkes? ;D
Annie Wilkes: God came to me last night and told me your purpose for being here. I am going to help you write a new book.
Paul Sheldon: You think I can just whip one out?
Annie Wilkes: Oh, but I don't think Paul, I know.
Conductors of genocide, Child abusers, pantomime serial killers anyone else you like to compare her to?
How do you rationalise the existence of poverty, their own doing? someone elses doing...your own doing? fates doing? no problem with it?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2016, 05:37:40 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 07:44:24 PM
Whats irrational about it if that what she believes? Far more irrational for me would be to give up a cushy life as a teacher to go and work in disease ridden slums with nothing in return.
MT brought cruelty to the poor???? Ive heard it all now :D
Your obviously of the opinion that she shouldn't have bothered...left them to rot in the street?
As I mentioned before She didn't see herself as a politician or ending poverty as part of her remit. Rather she saw herself as someone who would assist and tend to the poor.
There could be countless reasons for this the most obvious to me would be getting involved in a culture clash with the locals or a distraction from her true vocation. Whatever the reason I fail to see what religious teaching would have to do with it as Catholic teaching would be very much pointed towards alleviating poverty.
Sending them to a hospital where actual care was available would have been a good alternative, wouldn't you say?
For terminally ill poor in India was that an option?
Jesus guys a bit of perspective here, she was a nun, her order gave succour to the destitute and dying. If you look at the general living conditions of your average Indian in Calcutta or Mumbai the conditions she provided for her patients compares favourably. Judge from western standards they are poor granted but the vast majority of Indians live in what we would se as squalor. Was she a Saint? I'd say no, a sinner? like the rest of us most likely. jimmy Saville she was not. Did she use her image for benefit? most likely for personal benefit I'd say probably not as her life style was not one most of us would choose. Where I have the issues as I've stated is the Church talking about miracles and so called Sainthood and Tony talking shit about the Pope's infallibility none with a basis in scripture.
Did she campaign for or try to provide better standards of care? No
She was only interested in caring just enough to get them a ticket to heaven, which to her made perfect sense.... the suffering poor were down in the metaphysical engine room fueling god encouraging him to make the world a better place for those who lived in places where you didn't have to suffer to the same degree as the poor. Totally rational
MT was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. And she was a friend to the worst of the rich, taking misappropriated money from the atrocious Duvalier family in Haiti (whose rule she praised in return) and from Charles Keating of the Lincoln Savings and Loan. Where did that money, and all the other donations, go? The primitive hospice in Calcutta was as run down when she died as it always had been—she preferred California clinics when she got sick herself — and her order always refused to publish any audit. But we have her own claim that she opened 500 convents in more than a hundred countries, all bearing the name of her own order. Excuse me, but this is modesty and humility?
Christopher Hitchens, "Mommie Dearest:
Huh? She did improve the treatment of poor, she may not have helped them out of poverty but she certainly helped them in poverty.
Im amazed how you could take that from her statement of the poor. I would interpret it more that because the poor do not have many material possessions they are not as focused on their pursuit of them as the rest of us, and thus they are more intertwined with God and his attributes of forgiveness, humility, kindness, love etc and are therefore spread their example to the rest of us. I doubt very much that she meant your peculiar version
Mr Hitchens quite obviously has an agenda and thats to earn a living so fair play to him he found a market and exploited it with a band of people who were willing to lap up his tabloid sensationalism
So the cure to poverty is to reduce reproduction :D. Thats one of the funniest things Ive heard he obviously doesnt have a clue about economics, but sure it makes a good punch line so who cares?
Then he asks where here donations go and actually answers it himself with the 500 convents, but instead of accepting it as an answer declares it a boast, an example of her lack of humility. Weird in the extreme, it all comes across as an irrational personal broadside than anything of substance.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on September 22, 2016, 05:02:41 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 22, 2016, 04:21:06 PM
Actually Jimmy Saville was motivated to do "good things" to provide cover and access for his depraved needs.
MT aim was to assist the poor and dying and in doing so may have used some unconventional/poor practices.
So unless your suggesting MT's purpose was some sort of sadist whose goal was to inflinct suffering your anology is arse about face. Not to mention that your putting poor medical practices on a par with child abuse and giving 1st world kids treats is on a par with tending to the sick and dying in some of the worlds worst slums.
Of course I'm not comparing like for like ... don't be silly man
MTs aim was to assist the poor and dying and as a result of her belief that suffering would be what Christ wanted for the poor, she was happy to draw the line at the level of care they provided and whore herself on the global stage with the highest bidder to pay for it giving no regard to where and who the money was coming from. That's a perserve form of kindness, to point of being sadistic if you ask me.
Yeah so why use the Saville analogy?
And so now you've acceptted that its a load of tosh you decide to call a woman who remained celebaite her whole life a whore? Forgive me if I get the distinct impression that you are trying to castigate MT in a way that is contrary to what she actualy was.
While I would accept that the dying should have got pain relief and Im sure some at least probably did not, Ive never seen anyone say this was policy and to stretch this even further into the notion that it was a policy founded in MTs personal view on pain is putting 2 and 2 together to get 5.
As for using the funds to go globe trekking, she headed a global organisation and was the single best asset for raising funds and for spreading her message. If you are trying to depict her as some sort of international jet setter perhaps bare in mind when she started her work in the slums she had to beg herself.
But if you think MT was a sadist I'll disagree and say you'll entitled to your deluded opinion which I suspect is based mostly on a desire to deride and ridicule anything religous. Ill say my opinion is that she was a great philanthropist and humanitarian who was not without her faults like the rest of us... and we will leave it at that
Skull you are one sick, twisted individual, you have no shame at all, disgusting remarks on a woman who devoted her life to the poor, you are a disgrace!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2016, 05:40:12 AM
Has this been posted yet? Sorry if it has, but it bears repeating:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4)
Goddammitt Eamonn,I was wondering why this was bouncing around me head for the last hour.
End of every verse!So if its gonna be in my head all day its gonna be in yours,thems the rules!Strangely appropiate(title)however inadvertent. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch/fTH71AAxXmM (https://www.youtube.com/watch/fTH71AAxXmM)
Quote from: stew on September 23, 2016, 07:07:12 PM
Skull you are one sick, twisted individual, you have no shame at all, disgusting remarks on a woman who devoted her life to the poor, you are a disgrace!
Must be doing something right ;D
Quote from: The Iceman on September 22, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
With regard to MT and the level of care she provided I would point out the importance of suffering, pain, karma and reincarnation in all of this. Do you know that MT was often stopped by locals from helping the dying and the suffering? Why? Because it interfered with karma and reincarnation and natural death.
Total horse dung.
QuoteDo you know that today true Hindu's are a real struggle for modern health care practitioners? That they rarely allow medical intervention and only allow certain types of pain medication?
You profess to have a knowing that you wish to share? ;D
What's a true Hindu?
Do some research about India before writing such prejudiced, ignorant tripe.
Quote from: The Iceman on September 22, 2016, 06:36:50 PM
With regard to MT and the level of care she provided I would point out the importance of suffering, pain, karma and reincarnation in all of this. Do you know that MT was often stopped by locals from helping the dying and the suffering? Why? Because it interfered with karma and reincarnation and natural death.
Do you know that today true Hindu's are a real struggle for modern health care practitioners? That they rarely allow medical intervention and only allow certain types of pain medication?
All this is a HUGE part of how MT approached the dying and what she was permitted to do.
Some of the comments on here are atrocious. I've seen people talk bad about a GAA man who died or a GAA man who turned to gay porn and the collective board were up in arms. MT was one of the greatest humanitarians we've seen - if you have nothing but hate or bad things to say then you're probably the very person she would have helped...
I think the point is not people are making atrocious comments about "one of the greatest humanitarians we've seen" but rather they are airing legitimate doubts as to whether she actually was "one of the greatest humanitarians we've seen". These doubts seem legitimate and worthy of further investigation.
There also seems to be a growing trend to label anyone raising such doubts as "ant-religious" as if that in any way addresses the doubts or the reason for the doubts. Most of the defenders just home back with a "how dare you attack this saintly woman" response and offer no evidence that the doubts about her are groundless. Others such as yourself do at least come back with something but tends to be stuff like the post above which never rises above the level of horseshit and isn't backed up with anything.
Actually that's not the point Leonard, the point is people are saying that she done more harm than good and throwing about ridiculous comments like whore, and comparing her work to serial child abusers.
As for anyone "raising doubts" about her work I at least would welcome them and a bit of investigation tells us that the Vatican actually let these guys have their say as well. However we should bare in mind of what she seen as her remit and comparing her work to a modern hospital or NGO is a false analogy.
As for labeling or discrediting people who raise doubts I think Christopher Hitches does it all on his own with his sensationalist rubbish... "mommie dearest" and "hells angel" ???. And he was openly anti-religious so cant really relabel with that either. However probably more significantly he had to earn a living from his pieces so he had to make them sell.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 24, 2016, 10:26:57 PM
Actually that's not the point Leonard, the point is people are saying that she done more harm than good and throwing about ridiculous comments like whore, and comparing her work to serial child abusers.
As for anyone "raising doubts" about her work I at least would welcome them and a bit of investigation tells us that the Vatican actually let these guys have their say as well. However we should bare in mind of what she seen as her remit and comparing her work to a modern hospital or NGO is a false analogy.
As for labeling or discrediting people who raise doubts I think Christopher Hitches does it all on his own with his sensationalist rubbish... "mommie dearest" and "hells angel" ???. And he was openly anti-religious so cant really relabel with that either. However probably more significantly he had to earn a living from his pieces so he had to make them sell.
That's not the point, the point was Iceman's ridiculous post.
I don't know what happened that brought that piece of ignorant prejudiced garbage into the saintly mother's thread.
Are those views expressed by Iceman shared by many?
It's depressing to think such ignorance about humanity exists, under the garb of pretentious religious piety.
I didn't call her a whore joe
I said she whored herself. Please tell me why I shouldn't have used the term in the context of which it was used
whore
hɔː/
verb
gerund or present participle: whoring
(of a woman) work as a prostitute.
"she spent her life whoring for dangerous men"
synonyms: work as a prostitute, prostitute oneself, sell one's body, sell oneself, walk the streets, be on the streets, solicit, work in the sex industry; More
(of a man) use the services of prostitutes.
noun: whoring
"he lived by night, indulging in his two hobbies, whoring and eating"
synonyms: use prostitutes; archaicwench
"the pilots whored and drank like madmen"
debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money.
"he had never whored after money"
Feedback
Quote from: theskull1 on September 23, 2016, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: stew on September 23, 2016, 07:07:12 PM
Skull you are one sick, twisted individual, you have no shame at all, disgusting remarks on a woman who devoted her life to the poor, you are a disgrace!
Must be doing something right ;D
Nope, just a hate filled atheist who has not the moral fibre to say a single good word about a devout woman who dedicated her life to the poorest of the poor.
You are completely devoid of character in my opinion,I am done here, you make me sick!
Quote from: Main Street on September 24, 2016, 11:33:49 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 24, 2016, 10:26:57 PM
Actually that's not the point Leonard, the point is people are saying that she done more harm than good and throwing about ridiculous comments like whore, and comparing her work to serial child abusers.
As for anyone "raising doubts" about her work I at least would welcome them and a bit of investigation tells us that the Vatican actually let these guys have their say as well. However we should bare in mind of what she seen as her remit and comparing her work to a modern hospital or NGO is a false analogy.
As for labeling or discrediting people who raise doubts I think Christopher Hitches does it all on his own with his sensationalist rubbish... "mommie dearest" and "hells angel" ???. And he was openly anti-religious so cant really relabel with that either. However probably more significantly he had to earn a living from his pieces so he had to make them sell.
That's not the point, the point was Iceman's ridiculous post.
I don't know what happened that brought that piece of ignorant prejudiced garbage into the saintly mother's thread.
Are those views expressed by Iceman shared by many?
It's depressing to think such ignorance about humanity exists, under the garb of pretentious religious piety.
Actually that was not the point what you are talking about is a side show your trying to start with Iceman.
However I will take you up on it as I had direct experience of it in India when a woman in bad straits who my wife took pity on being talked badly about. Now I dont know wether it was directly related to the notion of karma and reincarnation, the caste system, bad education or what but the chap who was a well dressed young chap and spoke pretty good English so I felt it ruled out the latter at least. Anyway he basically said that she was bad and dont worry about her.... she was deaf and homeless with 2 young kids.
Now I know this experience in no way represents all Indians, their culture or Hinduism and although it was probably the most explicit example of this type of attitude it was not isolated so it is certainly not inconceivable that Western missionaries and charities come up against this attitude. Again I stress I do not know the exact reason wether it be cultural religious or education but its certainly there in India.
Quote from: theskull1 on September 25, 2016, 01:20:24 AM
I didn't call her a whore joe
I said she whored herself. Please tell me why I shouldn't have used the term in the context of which it was used
whore
hɔː/
verb
gerund or present participle: whoring
(of a woman) work as a prostitute.
"she spent her life whoring for dangerous men"
synonyms: work as a prostitute, prostitute oneself, sell one's body, sell oneself, walk the streets, be on the streets, solicit, work in the sex industry; More
(of a man) use the services of prostitutes.
noun: whoring
"he lived by night, indulging in his two hobbies, whoring and eating"
synonyms: use prostitutes; archaicwench
"the pilots whored and drank like madmen"
debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money.
"he had never whored after money"
Feedback
I think I will leave you with stew
Bump. Some people on another thread have raised objections to me criticizing Mother Theresa. If you're offended by that comment then you might want to watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ0i3nCx60
Dead link
Thanks. Link updated.
so a documentary directed and produced by Christopher Hitchens (who isn't biased in any way of course against anything religious) claims that Mother Theresa was simply a product of accidental media hype.....I'll tell you one thing Eamonn - you're a piece of work lad. You point the finger at Tony but you're just as bad.
You should go and read some books on her. Watch the films about her. Hear people on the ground who worked with her and knew her. Research the other side of your beloved atheist argument.... She never claimed to be perfect. If you had even an inkling of her care for other people you'd be doing alright
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 06:58:52 PM
so a documentary directed and produced by Christopher Hitchens (who isn't biased in any way of course against anything religious) claims that Mother Theresa was simply a product of accidental media hype.....I'll tell you one thing Eamonn - you're a piece of work lad. You point the finger at Tony but you're just as bad.
You should go and read some books on her. Watch the films about her. Hear people on the ground who worked with her and knew her. Research the other side of your beloved atheist argument.... She never claimed to be perfect. If you had even an inkling of her care for other people you'd be doing alright
If only the pro-abortion brigade had been aborted themselves.
You're saying hitch has intentionally skewed his perspective to suit his own beliefs as have the testimonies of people in the documentary? Have you ever considered there could be some substance to the piece. Its very usual to blindly deny it if you don't want to open your eyes to that possibility.
Please forward links suiting your own perspective
come on lad you're better than that...please post links to argue with christopher hitchens...
please post your own links that prove Eamonn isn't a bollox....oh you can't then he must be?
eamonn is an angry atheist mad at God because he doesnt like the competition. surrounded by libtards in SFO who clink bluebottle coffee cups with him on park benches with mac workbooks on their laps "rar rar rar we're so intelligent...but we don't have a real job for any length of time....." sickens my hole
I was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
I think they only want to hear criticism of Mother Theresa from her supporters. Any criticism coming from her critics is invalid because they are critics.
I'd be happy to hear rebuttals to the claims Hitch made, if they come from reputable sources.
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
come on lad you're better than that...please post links to argue with christopher hitchens...
please post your own links that prove Eamonn isn't a bollox....oh you can't then he must be?
eamonn is an angry atheist mad at God because he doesnt like the competition. surrounded by libtards in SFO who clink bluebottle coffee cups with him on park benches with mac workbooks on their laps "rar rar rar we're so intelligent...but we don't have a real job for any length of time....." sickens my hole
I was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
PMSL ;D
More chance of finding the Loch Ness Monster!!
Quote from: foxcommander on January 04, 2018, 07:51:41 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
come on lad you're better than that...please post links to argue with christopher hitchens...
please post your own links that prove Eamonn isn't a bollox....oh you can't then he must be?
eamonn is an angry atheist mad at God because he doesnt like the competition. surrounded by libtards in SFO who clink bluebottle coffee cups with him on park benches with mac workbooks on their laps "rar rar rar we're so intelligent...but we don't have a real job for any length of time....." sickens my hole
I was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
PMSL ;D
More chance of finding the Loch Ness Monster!!
You must be some pup if you can pick holes in a woman like MT, these f**kers must be the athiest equivilent of the likes of...............................................Mother Theresa.
I am no fan of Catholicism but that woman was a brilliant, amazing human being and only total arseholes would try and tarnish her legacy.
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PMI was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
Imagine being so angry at online posts by someone you don't know - it gets to this :o
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2018, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PMI was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
Imagine being so angry at online posts by someone you don't know - it gets to this :o
So internet anonymity let's people away with persistent badgering? He was on a mission at the time with me and has since left me alone - but he was an annoying fecker for years and was well deserving of a clip. And you presume Gabe I don't know him.
Deadly
Quote from: The Iceman on January 05, 2018, 01:28:55 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on January 05, 2018, 01:22:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on January 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PMI was up in Seattle when the NA Championships were on and he didn't show - he was for the deadener then
Imagine being so angry at online posts by someone you don't know - it gets to this :o
So internet anonymity let's people away with persistent badgering? He was on a mission at the time with me and has since left me alone - but he was an annoying fecker for years and was well deserving of a clip. And you presume Gabe I don't know him.
You should maybe take some time off the internet if it's getting you this wound up.
Don't know much about mother Theresa... but if she was everything that she was cracked up to be, perhaps she wouldn't approve of people being so angry that they would hope that on a coincidental trip to a city, they might meet up with a lad who annoyed them on the internet, and give them a "deadener"??
I doubt Jesus would be too in to it either. You're better than that Iceman.
The exquisite torture of being Christian - turning the other cheek is part of the deal.
As for MT, I'd say she was much like any nun from that era - well meaning, convinced of her own righteousness, occasionally wrongheaded and damaging in her devotion to her dogma, but probably left Calcutta and the world a little better than she found it, even if that may have been unintentional at times.
Good enough for canonisation - a process which does rely on miracles, lest we forget.
"Deadener?" What's one of them? Some sort of free stater's threat?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 05, 2018, 09:20:17 PM
"Deadener?" What's one of them? Some sort of free stater's threat?
It's a shame you didn't get to find out.
Lethal thread. Two lads lukin boxin over Theresa.
Quote from: hardstation on January 05, 2018, 09:56:48 PM
Magic.
I remember Eamonn saying one time that Saint Brigid was nothing but an aul cnut.
That would have made her cross.
Oh aye .... typical Tony rushing in to support hardstation :)
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 05, 2018, 10:25:57 PM
Quote from: hardstation on January 05, 2018, 09:56:48 PM
Magic.
I remember Eamonn saying one time that Saint Brigid was nothing but an aul cnut.
That would have made her cross.
We have a winner here.
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
Lethal thread. Two lads lukin boxin over Theresa.
Two? I wouldn't want to hurt him!
What'd probably happen is we'd head for the beer tent and have a bit of crack, even if he is an oul bollox!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 05, 2018, 11:49:21 PM
What'd probably happen is we'd head for the beer tent and have a bit of crack, even if he is an oul bollox!
Shows what sort of company you're keeping. No wonder you're a democrat and a spokesperson for certain folk.
It would be better if he met you and broke your jaw. That would have been funny.
Foxy,
Remove that post man, no need for that at all
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2018, 12:37:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 05, 2018, 11:49:21 PM
What'd probably happen is we'd head for the beer tent and have a bit of crack, even if he is an oul bollox!
Shows what sort of company you're keeping. No wonder you're a democrat and a spokesperson for certain folk.
It would be better if he met you and broke your jaw. That would have been funny.
Defines the man.
Quote from: ONeill on January 05, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
Lethal thread. Two lads lukin boxin over Theresa.
LOLOLOLOL Right enough hi.
Quote from: foxcommander on January 06, 2018, 12:37:44 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on January 05, 2018, 11:49:21 PM
What'd probably happen is we'd head for the beer tent and have a bit of crack, even if he is an oul bollox!
Shows what sort of company you're keeping. No wonder you're a democrat and a spokesperson for certain folk.
It would be better if he met you and broke your jaw. That would have been funny.
Ach now c'mon man dear, I know all liberals deserve a slap but a broken jaw???? Thats a bit much even for me, actually thats a lot much tbh.
MT was a nun, human and a sinner, saint, I think not.