Surprised there wasn't a proper thread on one of Europe's largest community festivals! Was anyone at West Belfast Talks Back last night? Any sparks between Brolly and Gregory Campbell?
There will be some holiday homes bought on the back of it
QuoteThere will be some holiday homes bought on the back of it
Explain please?
Quote from: balladmaker on August 11, 2016, 11:48:50 PM
QuoteThere will be some holiday homes bought on the back of it
Explain please?
Where do you think the "profits" go ?
havent been to it but was led to believe that it isnt being overly well attended. that right? Kooks dropping out was a blow i'm sure. Wolfe Tones will be packed out no doubt.
Yes, The Wolfe Tones was jammed ...
https://www.facebook.com/415698980175/videos/10157226769740176/
Quote from: balladmaker on August 16, 2016, 09:44:25 PM
Yes, The Wolfe Tones was jammed ...
https://www.facebook.com/415698980175/videos/10157226769740176/
Barstool republicanism enjoying a renaissance .
Quote from: balladmaker on August 16, 2016, 09:44:25 PM
Yes, The Wolfe Tones was jammed ...
https://www.facebook.com/415698980175/videos/10157226769740176/
We're you there gazing adoringly at your heroes?
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
There'll be a statement from Larne today saying he's gone I reckon. I'm surprised there hasn't been one already.
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
What was this about?
How the feck does that guy expect to play for Larne, yes Larne, doing that.
Anyone wearing one of those t shirts is a clown.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Wolfe Tones is guaranteed 10k people at £25 a pop, that's why it's the Wolfe Tones
Quote from: AustinPowers on August 15, 2022, 09:57:47 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
What was this about?
The T-Shirt I think says "Tiochfaidh ar La" in the shape of a Gun with "ooh ah up the Ra" underneath
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia
People? Or a person?
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 10:29:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia
People? Or a person?
Definitely people... I've seen a few different pics of ones wearing the Up the Ra headbands as well as the T-shirt Herron was wearing.
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Wolfe Tones is guaranteed 10k people at £25 a pop, that's why it's the Wolfe Tones
I know that but to be honest we need to move away from that shite.
Rebel songs have been sang since day dot, 10k people in the Falls Park for Wolfe Tones, out of ear shot and out of sight of any potential Loyalist who might be offended. Where do we go from here, ban rebel songs? Ban the Wolfe Tones?
For balance, every summer hundreds of parades take place consisting of militant bands that have more than a sneaking regard for the UVF, UDA, RHC or whatever Loyalist paramilitary group holds sway in their local area. Most if not all of these blood and thunder thugs are explicitly linked or supportive of loyalist paramilitaries. Its funny how there's not a peep out of those having their annual hissy fit over the Féile
Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
Rebel songs have been sang since day dot, 10k people in the Falls Park for Wolfe Tones, out of ear shot and out of sight of any potential Loyalist who might be offended. Where do we go from here, ban rebel songs? Ban the Wolfe Tones?
For balance, every summer hundreds of parades take place consisting of militant bands that have more than a sneaking regard for the UVF, UDA, RHC or whatever Loyalist paramilitary group holds sway in their local area. Most if not all of these blood and thunder thugs are explicitly linked or supportive of loyalist paramilitaries. Its funny how there's not a peep out of those having their annual hissy fit over the Féile
There it is . . . "sure they do it as well so what are you complaining about"
Nobody should be doing it is the point. As Newtown Emerson rightly put it SF and DUP agree funding for the Twelfth and the Feile then each complain about the other over the course of the summer.
Feile is publicly funded so it needs to move away from the IRA stuff.
If we're going to have a United Ireland with Unionists in it we can't be going around singing Up the Ra and f**k your Union Jack!
Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
Rebel songs have been sang since day dot, 10k people in the Falls Park for Wolfe Tones, out of ear shot and out of sight of any potential Loyalist who might be offended. Where do we go from here, ban rebel songs? Ban the Wolfe Tones?
For balance, every summer hundreds of parades take place consisting of militant bands that have more than a sneaking regard for the UVF, UDA, RHC or whatever Loyalist paramilitary group holds sway in their local area. Most if not all of these blood and thunder thugs are explicitly linked or supportive of loyalist paramilitaries. Its funny how there's not a peep out of those having their annual hissy fit over the Féile
It's okay if we behave like c***ts, for themmuns over there are bigger c***ts and that's the real problem.
Pretty much Nationalism's stock answer to the Unionist mantra that they will happily sleep in a bed of shit as long as Nationalist beds are even shittier.
What a place the six counties is.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Wolfe Tones is guaranteed 10k people at £25 a pop, that's why it's the Wolfe Tones
I know that but to be honest we need to move away from that shite.
I totally agree but they are running it as a business
if a united ireland is ever voted on then how can we keep these types from turning into a gloating session which will mean a retaliation from loyalists groups.
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Wolfe Tones is guaranteed 10k people at £25 a pop, that's why it's the Wolfe Tones
I know that but to be honest we need to move away from that shite.
I totally agree but they are running it as a business
It's supposed to be a Charity is it not?? Publicly funded as well!!
Also surely they could get another popular band who won't cause the same issues?
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 11:22:41 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 11:12:16 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 10:45:27 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 10:12:33 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 09:45:37 AM
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
Feile taking an absolute hammering on Social Media. . . hard to argue with most of it when people are walking around wearing Up the Ra paraphernalia and the Wolfe Tones are belting out Go on Home British Soldiers.
In this day and age it doesn't really help anyone!!
The Larne player wearing that T-Shirt. More brains in a false face.
People really need to grow past this shite. I wouldn't personally go to a Wolfe Tones concert if it was in my back garden. They are symptomatic of a period in our history which is no longer relevant. Young ones who weren't even born in 1998 when the GFA was signed running around with Up the Ra bandanas. They really need to wise up. By all means close the week out with an Irish band but by god move away from the Ra shit!
Wolfe Tones is guaranteed 10k people at £25 a pop, that's why it's the Wolfe Tones
I know that but to be honest we need to move away from that shite.
I totally agree but they are running it as a business
It's supposed to be a Charity is it not?? Publicly funded as well!!
Also surely they could get another popular band who won't cause the same issues?
Well it's de facto run by Sinn Fein but it's not a charity in the normal sense, probably more to do with auditing and accounting with "charity" status
Sadly theres too much money to be made for venues when they book these artists. Republican leaders need to speak to this and move what it is to be a republican to a different way of being (and banish this sort of stuff to the past) IF they are interested in bringing as many people with them on the UI journey...... I thought that was what it was all about :-\
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 11:03:51 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
Rebel songs have been sang since day dot, 10k people in the Falls Park for Wolfe Tones, out of ear shot and out of sight of any potential Loyalist who might be offended. Where do we go from here, ban rebel songs? Ban the Wolfe Tones?
For balance, every summer hundreds of parades take place consisting of militant bands that have more than a sneaking regard for the UVF, UDA, RHC or whatever Loyalist paramilitary group holds sway in their local area. Most if not all of these blood and thunder thugs are explicitly linked or supportive of loyalist paramilitaries. Its funny how there's not a peep out of those having their annual hissy fit over the Féile
There it is . . . "sure they do it as well so what are you complaining about"
Nobody should be doing it is the point. As Newtown Emerson rightly put it SF and DUP agree funding for the Twelfth and the Feile then each complain about the other over the course of the summer.
Feile is publicly funded so it needs to move away from the IRA stuff.
If we're going to have a United Ireland with Unionists in it we can't be going around singing Up the Ra and f**k your Union Jack!
You seem to miss the point, Wolfe Tones can be cancelled for 2023.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 15, 2022, 11:08:27 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 15, 2022, 10:58:37 AM
Rebel songs have been sang since day dot, 10k people in the Falls Park for Wolfe Tones, out of ear shot and out of sight of any potential Loyalist who might be offended. Where do we go from here, ban rebel songs? Ban the Wolfe Tones?
For balance, every summer hundreds of parades take place consisting of militant bands that have more than a sneaking regard for the UVF, UDA, RHC or whatever Loyalist paramilitary group holds sway in their local area. Most if not all of these blood and thunder thugs are explicitly linked or supportive of loyalist paramilitaries. Its funny how there's not a peep out of those having their annual hissy fit over the Féile
It's okay if we behave like c***ts, for themmuns over there are bigger c***ts and that's the real problem.
Pretty much Nationalism's stock answer to the Unionist mantra that they will happily sleep in a bed of shit as long as Nationalist beds are even shittier.
What a place the six counties is.
You seem to miss the point, Wolfe Tones can be cancelled for 2023.
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 11:37:16 AM
Sadly theres too much money to be made for venues when they book these artists. Republican leaders need to speak to this and move what it is to be a republican to a different way of being (and banish this sort of stuff to the past) IF they are interested in bringing as many people with them on the UI journey...... I thought that was what it was all about :-\
These events will all be in Casement if/when it's rebuilt
If casement were rebuilt then I don't think the likes of wolfe tones would be there if it attracted this kind of publicity. Ground would be owned by ulster council and I suspect they would want to avoid that kind of PR.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2022, 12:04:57 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 15, 2022, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 11:37:16 AM
Sadly theres too much money to be made for venues when they book these artists. Republican leaders need to speak to this and move what it is to be a republican to a different way of being (and banish this sort of stuff to the past) IF they are interested in bringing as many people with them on the UI journey...... I thought that was what it was all about :-\
These events will all be in Casement if/when it's rebuilt
Wouldn't that be seen as the cherry on the Republican terrorist cake, hosting it in a ground named after Roger Casement?
Yeah but I think it's a certainty Feile events will be based there when it's rebuilt with Feile more than likely based there too, it's fairly obvious to anyone that has been paying attention the last few years of the "get Casement built" era
One sure thing is they will go all out to ensure Casement doesn't receive any additional funding to get it built to the approved design. Little sympathy for the GAA suits mind you.
Suspended pending an investigation
https://www.larnefc.com/club-statement-john-herron/
What exactly are they investigating??
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 12:24:24 PM
Suspended pending an investigation
https://www.larnefc.com/club-statement-john-herron/
What exactly are they investigating??
This is Larne he's playing in. The one with the crown roundabout and the banner saying "welcome to loyalist larne" as you go into it. For his own personal safety he'd be as well just call it quits with them now.
As an event with public funding there should be more checks and balances. Unfortunately it is a SF run thing and the leadership on the ground over there should start reading the room and realise that there's a real opportunity to make a difference here. Step away from the whatabout politics and show leadership.
On top of all of that Wolfe Tones are pure dung! I know a few bars of some of the songs but genuinely couldn't sing one the whole way through....thankfully!
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 12:24:24 PM
Suspended pending an investigation
https://www.larnefc.com/club-statement-john-herron/
What exactly are they investigating??
If he has one brain cell.
could it be the beginning of the end for the feile
If we want to win the border poll when it eventually comes around, we are going to have to hold the hand of moderate unionists, in order to succeed.
The likes of Bryson will never be won over, but I'd like to think as a community, we hold ourselves to a higher moral standard than what we witness at the various bonfires on the 11th night, and what we witnessed in the orange Hall with the Micheala song.
That is up to the organisers of these events and leaders in our community to set the example. There will always be the eejit in the crowd, but on the whole I don't think it would be a huge loss if there was an alternative to the wolfetones next year.
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
Embarrassing event in many ways, young lads who were not even about back in the day getting brainwashed. All these events including those here in Derry are just big SF money grabbing sessions. Jobs for the boys. Donegal for me every day of the week
The Feile could turn in the Nationalist Twelfth. AKA a hatefest. Which is a pity as from what I can gather it is a pretty well run festival that is overshadowed by this shite every year.
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2022, 12:24:24 PM
Suspended pending an investigation
https://www.larnefc.com/club-statement-john-herron/
What exactly are they investigating??
To see if he has a brain ?
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
As a whole it is great but I think that the Wolfe tones concert is backward looking in terms of the perception of the event and in the eyes of the public negates all the good that happens at it. Of course there is a demand among the general public in the area for them to play but there is a bigger picture here. As someone said above we need to take the middle ground with us to the negotiating table. In my work the 'truth' in the middle is the real truth and that is where we need to end up. Playing Up the Ra songs won't get us there. Let the loyalists be the haters and let's make use of that education that we got from the CCMS schools. f**k sake, can people not see that?
Quote from: Eire90 on August 15, 2022, 01:06:18 PM
could it be the beginning of the end for the feile
Not when SF control the funding levers
Let's bin the "dance night too, loads of pissed up/E'd up underage teens
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:11:30 PM
The Feile could turn in the Nationalist Twelfth. AKA a hatefest. Which is a pity as from what I can gather it is a pretty well run festival that is overshadowed by this shite every year.
FFS.
Ok Jamie, whatever you say.
The Tones won't be able to play/perform that's if they're still alive by the time Casement is built so you won't have to worry about them playing there.
I'd say 50% of the people in attendance were under 22 and majority of them don't even know what they're singing about...they're there for a good time and to get off their faces on whatever they use.
My mate from Larne sent me the photo of the two Larne players at the festival...One was dressed with no colours at all the other in full green, white & orange top with Tiocfaidh Ar La written across it in the shape of an Armalite which won't go down well in Larne but it'll blow over in a few weeks
that larne player seems to have no awareness people have phones everywhere these days did he not think someone might get a photo of it and he plays for larne not exactly a republican friendly place.
Quote from: illdecide on August 15, 2022, 01:22:45 PM
The Tones won't be able to play/perform that's if they're still alive by the time Casement is built so you won't have to worry about them playing there.
I'd say 50% of the people in attendance were under 22 and majority of them don't even know what they're singing about...they're there for a good time and to get off their faces on whatever they use.
My mate from Larne sent me the photo of the two Larne players at the festival...One was dressed with no colours at all the other in full green, white & orange top with Tiocfaidh Ar La written across it in the shape of an Armalite which won't go down well in Larne but it'll blow over in a few weeks
It definitely won't blow over. He'll not play for Larne again and might not play Irish League again.
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
QuoteWolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Theres obviously a demand for Para flags.... is this really an argument for keeping with traditions which alienate? Have we learned nothing looking at 'themmuns' and their antics?
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 01:26:24 PM
QuoteWolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Theres obviously a demand for Para flags.... is this really an argument for keeping with traditions which alienate? Have we learned nothing looking at 'themmuns' and their antics?
Excellent reply
Cant take Kneecap at all. Glorifying drugs, violence and anti social behaviour. Knew one of the lads before he was in band-not very friendly tbh
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:32:26 PM
Cant take Kneecap at all. Glorifying drugs, violence and anti social behaviour. Knew one of the lads before he was in band-not very friendly tbh
I'm sure they'll be gutted to hear this.
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
Reminds me of this old joke:
Giuseppe and Luigi are sitting on the bluff overlooking the village and harbor below.
Giuseppe turns to Luigi and says...
"Luigi, look down on the village below.
"You built almost every house in the village.
"And you, they call 'Luigi the House Builder.'
"Now, look down at the harbor.
"See all those boats there?
"I built almost every one of them.
"So, you think they'd call me 'Giuseppe the Boat Builder,' right?
"But you f**k one goat..."
just seen that he played 2 games for Celtic. i'd never heard of him until today.
Well Im fluent gaeilge speaker but aye I dont do drugs or smash and burn stuff for the craic
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:32:26 PM
Cant take Kneecap at all. Glorifying drugs, violence and anti social behaviour. Knew one of the lads before he was in band-not very friendly tbh
I'm sure they'll be gutted to hear this.
You are just the sort of tit who be into them though, I kook forward to the day when you find out you wain blasts
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Nothing to see here.
The unionist woke bet wetters were always going to be out in force crying, just like they do every year. Didnt see them crying about UVF flags in Derry the other day or about stuff burnt on bonfires a few weeks ago. Only when it suits them, let them cry away.
As you were, hopefully the tones are playing again next year.
Having the same conversations every year about the wolf tones and the bad publicity that comes with it, why is anyone shocked that unionism is up in arms about these t shirts and songs?
It takes away from the outrage over Michaela McAreavey and burning effigies of local politicians and gaa people, I've said before we are very good and shooting ourselves in the foot and all the good thats done is lost, aping loyalist will continue to divide this place and you'll never ever win over the middle of the road unionist, maybe SF don't want a united Ireland
Can the Wolfe tones not just be taken out of the festival? I am sure they could play at a stand-alone event not linked to the festival. But the videos are cringy and the oohh ahh up the raa stuff needs to stop.
Question: - Would the defenders of the 'oh ah up the RA'ers' right to express themselves, be willing to leave that tradition to the past IF doing so helped persuade enough fence sitters that would bring about the unification of Ireland?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:37:44 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:32:26 PM
Cant take Kneecap at all. Glorifying drugs, violence and anti social behaviour. Knew one of the lads before he was in band-not very friendly tbh
I'm sure they'll be gutted to hear this.
You are just the sort of tit who be into them though, I kook forward to the day when you find out you wain blasts
Never mind the Irish, you'd need to get a grip on the English language.
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Old IRA, new IRA?
Were the RUC, BA and UDR terrorists?
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on August 15, 2022, 02:22:58 PM
Nothing to see here.
The unionist woke bet wetters were always going to be out in force crying, just like they do every year. Didnt see them crying about UVF flags in Derry the other day or about stuff burnt on bonfires a few weeks ago. Only when it suits them, let them cry away.
As you were, hopefully the tones are playing again next year.
100%.
They can celebrate the terrorists of the RUC and UDR etc. every November.
Next thing is a few lads on here will be asking GAA clubs like Kevin Lynch's, Pádraig Pearses, Wolfe Tones and Casements etc. to change their names of the clubs.
I'll not be lectured to by unionists who have over 3000 parades, a lot in nationalist areas every year.
Belfast City Hall and Stormont is littered with unionist icons and ideology etc.
Look at Antrim Camogie team.
As I say, no lectures.
Quote from: Truth hurts on August 15, 2022, 02:32:18 PM
Can the Wolfe tones not just be taken out of the festival? I am sure they could play at a stand-alone event not linked to the festival. But the videos are cringy and the oohh ahh up the raa stuff needs to stop.
The Wolfe Tones should be taken out of the festival because they are absolutely done. Seen them a good few times down the years and always enjoyed the show. Saw them at Felie 4-5 years back and the voices are gone and they totally rely on crowd singalong now. Time to hang up the banjo.
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 02:35:28 PM
Question: - Would the defenders of the 'oh ah up the RA'ers' right to express themselves, be willing to leave that tradition to the past IF doing so helped persuade enough fence sitters that would bring about the unification of Ireland?
Question: Do you really think that unionists will vote yes in a ref. just because the Wolfe Tones stop playing at Féile?
No matter what nationalists do will not be good enough - simple as.
As we see from recent events, the Irish language, GAA, pollsters, academia, Fleadh and politicians etc.etc. are all targets for unionists.
There's an orchestrated campaign, which will crank up over the next year.
For the people here who want to cancel the Wolfe Tones (btw, they're well past their sell-by-date), where do you stop?
Other rebel bands?
Do we cancel Grace and Joe Mc Donnell?
Do we write to Limerick Co. Boardand say stop playing/singing Sean South in the changing rooms/homecoming when they will the AI?
Do GAA clubs change their names?
Do we stop bi-lingual street names as unionists find it controversial?
Where do we stop?
You and others seem to be missing the point that it's an "easy hit" due to the amount of public/rate payer money it receives
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 03:19:14 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on August 15, 2022, 02:35:28 PM
Question: - Would the defenders of the 'oh ah up the RA'ers' right to express themselves, be willing to leave that tradition to the past IF doing so helped persuade enough fence sitters that would bring about the unification of Ireland?
Question: Do you really think that unionists will vote yes in a ref. just because the Wolfe Tones stop playing at Féile?
No matter what nationalists do will not be good enough - simple as.
As we see from recent events, the Irish language, GAA, pollsters, academia, Fleadh and politicians etc.etc. are all targets for unionists.
There's an orchestrated campaign, which will crank up over the next year.
For the people here who want to cancel the Wolfe Tones (btw, they're well past their sell-by-date), where do you stop?
Other rebel bands?
Do we cancel Grace and Joe Mc Donnell?
Do we write to Limerick Co. Boardand say stop playing/singing Sean South in the changing rooms/homecoming when they will the AI?
Do GAA clubs change their names?
Do we stop bi-lingual street names as unionists find it controversial?
Where do we stop?
You are right of course hard line Unionists are using all the above as a stick to beat Nationalists with but not having rebel music and "Up the Ra" merchandise at a publicly funded festival is quite an easy one to fix.
You can't cancel rebel bands or their songs but they shouldn't be part of a festival that receives public money.
Limerick can do what they want.
GAA Clubs up here I think will change their names eventually over time.
Bi-lingual street signs aren't that big an issue I don't think.
The less things they can complain about the better. You are putting off small u unionists with the kind of shit we saw over the weekend and they'll be needed in a unity referendum if the business case is put to them correctly. You have to be able to convince them they won't be demonised or made to feel unwelcome in a New Ireland.
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 03:00:29 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on August 15, 2022, 02:22:58 PM
Nothing to see here.
The unionist woke bet wetters were always going to be out in force crying, just like they do every year. Didnt see them crying about UVF flags in Derry the other day or about stuff burnt on bonfires a few weeks ago. Only when it suits them, let them cry away.
As you were, hopefully the tones are playing again next year.
100%.
They can celebrate the terrorists of the RUC and UDR etc. every November.
Next thing is a few lads on here will be asking GAA clubs like Kevin Lynch's, Pádraig Pearses, Wolfe Tones and Casements etc. to change their names of the clubs.
I'll not be lectured to by unionists who have over 3000 parades, a lot in nationalist areas every year.
Belfast City Hall and Stormont is littered with unionist icons and ideology etc.
Look at Antrim Camogie team.
As I say, no lectures.
Spot on
On a note about the footballer. How is he going to back to Larne? Larne and that east coast of antrim is heavily controlled /influenced by loyalist paramilitaries. I would have thought he's as well off out of it for his own good.
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Old IRA, new IRA?
Were the RUC, BA and UDR terrorists?
So Whatabout? That's your argument?
So we get rid of the Wolfe Tones for Féile 2023. Then what?
How about getting a band that not going to make West Belfast just look like them muns in East Belfast. Seen the kaiser Chiefs there one year, no issues at all
bonfires with the queens picture on it in derry,
Quote from: Eire90 on August 15, 2022, 06:08:54 PM
bonfires with the queens picture on it in derry,
I don't agree with these bonfires.
If people remember, west Belfast, and north Belfast, to a lesser extent, were polluted (pun used) wirh bonfires for a long time. A group came together to improve the situation for these areas and Fèile came along.
Fantastic idea and work.
As for the lad playing for Larne, excately on what scale of stupid would he rate?
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2022, 05:43:02 PM
We keep the heads down and pretend not to be Irish or Republican or Nationalist for the next few years and we're a cert to hoodwink Unionists into wanting a United Ireland. Should have done it years ago.
Yeah, this naive idea that we stop the promotion of being Irish, or anything to do with being Irish i.e.Irish language, Fleadh, and GAA etc., then unionists will somehow want to become re-united Irelanders.
Get real.
The 6 counties was established on a sectarian headcount. Look at The Irish News' On This Day column and it goes back to 1922 etc. and mentions the pogroms in and around Belfast.
Yeah, stop The Wolfe Tones and that's a gamechanger alright. ???
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 15, 2022, 06:05:50 PM
How about getting a band that not going to make West Belfast just look like them muns in East Belfast. Seen the kaiser Chiefs there one year, no issues at all
Was there a band playing the night before?
I think the was an 80's or 90's type disco also on one of the nights but not sure.
Again, this is a Bryson/TUV type statement trying to demonise the people of west Belfast.
I posted earlier how many debates/discussions/events and sporting competitions etc. were taking place - hundreds while thousands attended or took part.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 15, 2022, 06:20:04 PM
As for the lad playing for Larne, excately on what scale of stupid would he rate?
Bit stupid alright.
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Old IRA, new IRA?
Were the RUC, BA and UDR terrorists?
So Whatabout? That's your argument?
Answer the question.
You didn't answer Snapchat's earlier.
If there were 10k at a concert elsewhere with chants of us the uda I think we know the reaction here. Whatever you think about the ira campaign, it was a serious business and should never be trivialised by some ridiculous soccer chant like ooh aah, up the Ra. Brainless.
As for the Wolfe Tonnes, anyone who has ever had dealings with them will know their only god is money and not 2 fucks do they care about a United Ireland or the kids chanting along to them. In fact if my imaginary loyalist concert doubled their fee I wouldn't be surprised to see them turn up in sashes singing up to our necks etc.
As republicans we need to better than this and not sink into the gutter and turn it into a republican 12th.
Quote from: Eire90 on August 15, 2022, 06:08:54 PM
bonfires with the queens picture on it in derry,
The 15th in Derry has nothing to do with the internment ones that Belfast had. It was a holy day event and has been going 100s years. Every street had their own usually few whin bushes and trees etc, when we were young you would never have seen that and that was during troubles. Few spuds in the bottom of the be bonfire was the highlight.Then there was a lad killed in early 90s in drunken stabbing. The wee bonfires were replaced slowly but surely by SF community events . We are now left with 2-3 disgusting things mimicking Unionists.
Btw Snapchat and Marty canny think for themselves
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 06:45:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 04:17:20 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Old IRA, new IRA?
Were the RUC, BA and UDR terrorists?
So Whatabout? That's your argument?
Answer the question.
You didn't answer Snapchat's earlier.
Why bring in the peelers into this discussion? It's been answered then you've asked another question about the peelers?
they carried out terrorism acts, but then that's a different question, not relevant to what was put up here.
I assume he's saying if you are not into violence and from a unionist background then shouting up the ra isn't a thing that would make you want to unite the island.
We'll not get one in your life time or kids if we don't have the small unionist on board. Trust me there will still be plenty of northern 'nationalists' who'll vote for the status quo, like they did in Scotland
That Wolfe Tones song should be banned for pronouncing Celts as selts. Seems targeted to the plastic paddies in Boston. Awful shite.
Quote from: weareros on August 15, 2022, 08:02:01 PM
That Wolfe Tones song should be banned for pronouncing Celts as selts. Seems targeted to the plastic paddies in Boston. Awful shite.
Not into cancel culture, however could we make a special case for the Wolfe Tones?
Utter scutter.
This all seems very convenient. For a society that prides itself on saying nothing, everyone is curtain twitching. A filth song in a pub. But whatabout the rappers. Bigoted bonfires, but whatabout a singsong at a gig.
Meanwhile you have no government. They are playing you with this divide and conquer.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2022, 01:24:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:11:01 PM
Embarrassing event in many ways, young lads who were not even about back in the day getting brainwashed. All these events including those here in Derry are just big SF money grabbing sessions. Jobs for the boys. Donegal for me every day of the week
I've read a few times about these young people "not being about back in the day". Is that something we're holding over them now?
If the Easter Rising centenary events were confined to those who were alive in 1916, you could have held them in my front room.
Ah but you see, that was different......
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
I said earlier, I think some parties on the nationalist side actually don't want a UI
The people doing the most for a UI are the DUP sure.
We shouldn't dampen down our culture however "up the 'ra" definitely a) isn't culture and b) definitely isn't mine.
The sectarian rhetoric has really cranked up especially with antics on bonfires etc so there is significantly more scrutiny these days and *anything* makes headline news too.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:04:31 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
I said earlier, I think some parties on the nationalist side actually don't want a UI
I'm not saying I agree with with you but our politicians are there to line their pockets. Same as everyone in a job. A UI would do two things:
- Remove one of the corner stone aims of their political party making them somewhat directionless having to deal with real complex issues as opposed to the current tit for tat outrage politics we see at the minute
- Instigate a complete restructure of the political institutes on the Island possibly resulting in less available seats
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:04:31 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
I said earlier, I think some parties on the nationalist side actually don't want a UI
I'm not saying I agree with with you but our politicians are there to line their pockets. Same as everyone in a job. A UI would do two things:
- Remove one of the corner stone aims of their political party making them somewhat directionless having to deal with real complex issues as opposed to the current tit for tat outrage politics we see at the minute
- Instigate a complete restructure of the political institutes on the Island possibly resulting in less available seats
Be the end of SF. Found out
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 16, 2022, 08:06:07 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2022, 01:24:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:11:01 PM
Embarrassing event in many ways, young lads who were not even about back in the day getting brainwashed. All these events including those here in Derry are just big SF money grabbing sessions. Jobs for the boys. Donegal for me every day of the week
I've read a few times about these young people "not being about back in the day". Is that something we're holding over them now?
If the Easter Rising centenary events were confined to those who were alive in 1916, you could have held them in my front room.
Ah but you see, that was different......
Absolutely no comparison between commemorating rising and running around singing pished up rebel songs when there has been no conflict for manys a year. By all means have a dignified commemoration but some of this stuff is just bargain basement stuff
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 09:37:25 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 09:31:08 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 16, 2022, 08:06:07 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 15, 2022, 01:24:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 15, 2022, 01:11:01 PM
Embarrassing event in many ways, young lads who were not even about back in the day getting brainwashed. All these events including those here in Derry are just big SF money grabbing sessions. Jobs for the boys. Donegal for me every day of the week
I've read a few times about these young people "not being about back in the day". Is that something we're holding over them now?
If the Easter Rising centenary events were confined to those who were alive in 1916, you could have held them in my front room.
Ah but you see, that was different......
Absolutely no comparison between commemorating rising and running around singing pished up rebel songs when there has been no conflict for manys a year. By all means have a dignified commemoration but some of this stuff is just bargain basement stuff
But "being around" for either of those things holds no relevance.
Someone who was alive during the troubles doesn't have more right to sing these songs than someone who wasn't.
Some of the songs are about 1916 and the Black & Tans ffs!
Right ok, I feel no affiliation to these songs ij the same way I did when the brits were sitting at my front door every morning, just fueling sectarianism, we live in better times now
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 09:27:13 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:17:40 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:04:31 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
I said earlier, I think some parties on the nationalist side actually don't want a UI
I'm not saying I agree with with you but our politicians are there to line their pockets. Same as everyone in a job. A UI would do two things:
- Remove one of the corner stone aims of their political party making them somewhat directionless having to deal with real complex issues as opposed to the current tit for tat outrage politics we see at the minute
- Instigate a complete restructure of the political institutes on the Island possibly resulting in less available seats
Be the end of SF. Found out
I wouldn't be so sure about that. If Sinn Féin were seen to be associated with delivering a United Ireland they would be the man who built the road and could live off it for a long time to come, regardless of anything else.
That type of thing has been the bedrock of Irish politics for over 100 years.
They live off opposing unionists in the north and govt in the south. Be all so different in a UI, big boy real world politics would kick in. We cant have likes of MON making real hard nosed economic decisions. Easy to rattle off woke agenda shite to give us all that warm fuzzy feeling
Would it not be right that some local MLAs head to these events like that bonfire in Derry and say we are making fools of ourselves and we need to not give any oxygen to them?
As for the Feile it's improving year on year but some more thought into keeping it as inclusive as they can and encouraging more cross community events (they probably do in fairness) then we can maybe get away from the tit for tat shit that goes on. The political void at the minute doesn't help
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 09:58:25 AM
I'm not disagreeing with you and in an ideal world being a competent politician should be a major factor in earning votes. Has that been your experience of politics across Ireland?
Not always but however much it pains me to say it most of the better more professional politicians are in the republic and in the govt parties with some notable exceptions in opposition parties
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 01:26:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:10:47 PM
Féile 2022
*100,000 People in Attendance
*350 Events *
85 Debates and Discussions
*28 Art Exhibitions
*4 10,000 Person Concerts
From Féile's Twitter account.
Not bad at all (considering what was going on 35+ years ago in West Belfast and surrounding area) I think.
Unfortunately, Screen Exile and the likes will focus on one thing in particular, out of the thousands of things that was on this past week or so.
Wolfe Tones are definately not my thing but the demand is there obviously. Sold out in record time.
Next thing is some of you'll want Grace and Come Out You Black and Tans banned. :o
This proves my point. Lots of positives but overshadowed by stupidity. Glorification of terrorism isn't ok. We wouldn't accept it if it was any other terrorist organisation they were singing about.
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
Ah. Every government ever .
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 16, 2022, 09:01:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 08:33:45 AM
I see the Derry bonfire making the headlines, aping the 12th bonfires...
Crazy own goals
Own goals is the most is the most apt way to describe it.
Unionism was on its knees 3 months ago, slowly but surely through incident after incident they're being handed political points. You can see the DUP's game clearly they never intended on forming an executive. They're aiming to make it to October for another election hopefully picking up as much support as they can regaining the first minister title. At the minute it's being made far too easy for them.
Too easy for them? To regain the First Ministers post? Are you wise at all? First off, in the election itself SF took a 29% share of the vote compared to the DUP's 23% and now the most recent opinion poll shows that since the election, SF's support has risen by a further 1.9% (putting them at 30.9%) and the DUP's has slipped by 1.2% (putting them at 20.1%).
I know the DUP wouldn't be known for their political nous, but I don't think even they are stupid enough to think they'll overturn that
growing deficit by October.
Quote from: clarshack on August 16, 2022, 10:21:17 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on August 15, 2022, 08:26:09 PM
This all seems very convenient. For a society that prides itself on saying nothing, everyone is curtain twitching. A filth song in a pub. But whatabout the rappers. Bigoted bonfires, but whatabout a singsong at a gig.
Meanwhile you have no government. They are playing you with this divide and conquer.
The real enemy are the globalists trying to destroy our way of life with their net zero fanaticism.
Fucccckkk off
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Nolan has been banging on about it all morning . . . Translink 'reviewing' their funding and I'd say there will be others!!
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 11:12:35 AM
Can't help thinking that this is going to backfire remarkably on the Billy boys.
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2022, 11:08:16 AM
Nolan has been banging on about it all morning . . . Translink 'reviewing' their funding and I'd say there will be others!!
Whats lost by private company funders will be made up at Belfast City Council level by SF
I particularly enjoyed a couple of years ago the city councillors had an excess of funding of about £500k and one of the options was to reduce the domestic rates for ratepayers or give it all to Feile & unionist groups for "bonfire diversion".
They chose the latter option funny enough
if rishi becomes pm will everyone at the feile be arrested and put into one of his british values camps
does sinn fein have no control in derry you would think one of thier represantives would be on the ground telling people to flags or pics off bonfire so they can take the moral high ground.
Quote from: Eire90 on August 16, 2022, 11:26:10 AM
does sinn fein have no control in derry you would think one of thier represantives would be on the ground telling people to flags or pics off bonfire so they can take the moral high ground.
They have no control of the young ones anymore. They planted Nunga McMonagle into council on an inside job(bonfire officer) of 35K(people of derry were fuming), he is now out in dubai with all the lackies that got SF bad name, set up as a security guard-thugs
Bonfires are a pain in the hole.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 11:40:53 AM
Does anyone? Is there any group in Derry that could prevent this from happening next year?
Dissidents. But they spend a lot of their time recruiting around waterloo street bars(banging out rebel tunes etc-which was my earlier point)
By all accounts Sinn Fein are a mess in Derry City sure Eastwood managed to get the Westminster seat there.
If SF had any halfway decent leadership in the City they could maybe do something but I think the Anderson/McCallion cartel made a complete mess of things and dissidents have been only too happy to fill the vacuum!
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2022, 11:42:56 AM
By all accounts Sinn Fein are a mess in Derry City sure Eastwood managed to get the Westminster seat there.
If SF had any halfway decent leadership in the City they could maybe do something but I think the Anderson/McCallion cartel made a complete mess of things and dissidents have been only too happy to fill the vacuum!
Replaced with Delargy now-young gay man, safer bet, he is much more affable to be fair
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 11:47:32 AM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 11:41:57 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 11:40:53 AM
Does anyone? Is there any group in Derry that could prevent this from happening next year?
Dissidents. But they spend a lot of their time recruiting around waterloo street bars(banging out rebel tunes etc-which was my earlier point)
I assume they're happy enough with the bonfires?
I take it the SDLP are as powder puff in Derry as they are everywhere else, despite the notion that it's where they're strong?
I dont think the age profile are the age who vote anyone, yes the dissies be happy for it to continue, they are the only ones who have the young lads ears
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2022, 11:42:56 AM
By all accounts Sinn Fein are a mess in Derry City sure Eastwood managed to get the Westminster seat there.
Were a mess. Not so much now if the Assembly election is anything to go by. Foyle is the SDLP's 'citadel' and they were aiming to top the poll and get three of the five seats. In the end, they only got two candidates across the line while SF topped the poll with a total newcomer and got a second candidate elected to the third seat of the five.
Bonfire in Derry City a mess. Don't agree with it at all. A crowd of hoods.
I heard Gary Midleton on the news giving out about respect etc. and a while back he was standing, in his orders' regilia under a Support Soldier banner with parachute emblems all over it.
You couldn't make it up.
As I say, don't be taking lectures from unionists about respect.
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
It's a false equivalence alright, but take that away from unionism and their media patsies and expose them for what they are.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 12:33:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
It's a false equivalence alright, but take that away from unionism and their media patsies and expose them for what they are.
You could, of course. But don't be fooled that they won't find some other false equivalence. I mean, at least the GAA isn't getting a touch this week.
Yeah, as I said yesterday, it's an ongoing process.
Féile this week, Fleadh last week, Irish language the week before and it'll be the GAA next week.
Don't be fooled. This is an organised campaign against anything Irish.
Times are a changing. Stay steadfast.
No lectures from unionism.
So, based on all that, would this be a good beginner's guide then?
"It is very much okay to be unapologetically Irish in the six counties, up to and including being openly hostile towards British people and institutions. But it's not okay to be unapologetically British, as that makes you a bigoted ****."
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
When ever ye get round to scaling down ir stopping mimicking "Loyalist" carry on can the first step be to abolish those godawful "republican flute bands"?
They're an insult to our thousands of years of great Irish music heritage.
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 12:33:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
It's a false equivalence alright, but take that away from unionism and their media patsies and expose them for what they are.
You could, of course. But don't be fooled that they won't find some other false equivalence. I mean, at least the GAA isn't getting a touch this week.
Yeah, as I said yesterday, it's an ongoing process.
Féile this week, Fleadh last week, Irish language the week before and it'll be the GAA next week.
Don't be fooled. This is an organised campaign against anything Irish.
Times are a changing. Stay steadfast.
No lectures from unionism.
It is, but don't make it easy for them by aping their "culture" and allowing them to use false equivalence about one bonfire vrs the dozens of 11th night bonfires.
Don't let them away with their hypocrisy either.
Unionism demands the moral high ground all the way from the outset of the troubles, they were set upon by these fanatical republicans who for no reason started an armed campaign as everything was rosey in the garden up to that point.
The RUC, UDR and British Army were neutral protectors of the peace even when there's evidence to the contrary but challenge them on that and we'll be accused of trying to re-write the history of this shíthole..
Repeat, be proud of our Irishness which manifests itself in a positive way, our language, our sport, our arts, our music, but leave the shíte of bonfires to them.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 01:42:54 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:38:43 PM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 12:33:36 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:22:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
It's a false equivalence alright, but take that away from unionism and their media patsies and expose them for what they are.
You could, of course. But don't be fooled that they won't find some other false equivalence. I mean, at least the GAA isn't getting a touch this week.
Yeah, as I said yesterday, it's an ongoing process.
Féile this week, Fleadh last week, Irish language the week before and it'll be the GAA next week.
Don't be fooled. This is an organised campaign against anything Irish.
Times are a changing. Stay steadfast.
No lectures from unionism.
It is, but don't make it easy for them by aping their "culture" and allowing them to use false equivalence about one bonfire vrs the dozens of 11th night bonfires.
Don't let them away with their hypocrisy either.
Unionism demands the moral high ground all the way from the outset of the troubles, they were set upon by these fanatical republicans who for no reason started an armed campaign as everything was rosey in the garden up to that point.
The RUC, UDR and British Army were neutral protectors of the peace even when there's evidence to the contrary but challenge them on that and we'll be accused of trying to re-write the history of this shíthole..
Repeat, be proud of our Irishness which manifests itself in a positive way, our language, our sport, our arts, our music, but leave the shíte of bonfires to them.
+1
The Wolfe Tones and a bonfire thrown up by a few wee scumbags from the Creggan are a small price to pay
To not do it just gives succour to the uneducated and unthinking 'one side is as bad as the other' brigade
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
Well obviously not everybody disagrees with it when there looked to be a few hundred at it.
Haven't heard from SF that they disagreed with it either!!
Quote from: Rossfan on August 16, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
When ever ye get round to scaling down ir stopping mimicking "Loyalist" carry on can the first step be to abolish those godawful "republican flute bands"?
They're an insult to our thousands of years of great Irish music heritage.
Absolutely, they're horrendous
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
You haven't answered the question. If I ask you if you believe the British Army were a terrorist organisation, then clearly I'm asking you about the British Army and not the IRA. At a loss as to why you won't state your opinion. If a terrorist organisation is one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims", does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
What are you raving about "hill to die on"? Not dying on any hill. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to say the IRA killed thousands. Now I understand that you'd prefer to get away with telling such a lie, but I think it was worth calling out, because it says something about you.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 15, 2022, 12:55:52 PM
As an event with public funding there should be more checks and balances. Unfortunately it is a SF run thing and the leadership on the ground over there should start reading the room and realise that there's a real opportunity to make a difference here. Step away from the whatabout politics and show leadership.
On top of all of that Wolfe Tones are pure dung! I know a few bars of some of the songs but genuinely couldn't sing one the whole way through....thankfully!
Apart from the Wolf Tones chorus bit, if it's a Sinn Féin run thing, then credit where credit is due to Sinn Fein. Feile an Phobail is about the best thing to emerge from the troubles, it is a hugely successful city festival of culture, tradition, language and progressive debate. An incredible amount of work must go into organizing such an event. Take out that one grand finale song from the Feile and what are you left with? would it still be a festival of hate and Sinn Fein to be begrudged?
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
You haven't answered the question. If I ask you if you believe the British Army were a terrorist organisation, then clearly I'm asking you about the British Army and not the IRA. At a loss as to why you won't state your opinion. If a terrorist organisation is one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims", does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
What are you raving about "hill to die on"? Not dying on any hill. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to say the IRA killed thousands. Now I understand that you'd prefer to get away with telling such a lie, but I think it was worth calling out, because it says something about you.
I'm not raving. And it says far more about you than it does about me when you are an apologist for murderers.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Were the British Army* a terrorist organisation, Trailer?
*Note: My question is about the British Army, not the IRA.
Hopefully we might get a straight answer today.
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
Exactly, the irony of it all.
Imagine Gary Midleton tweeting that statement last night. Incidentially I think that bonfire is a joke. Run by dissoes probably and young hoods. I'd say it has 1% support in Derry city.
The symbolism of the north is british/unionist (look at City Hall and Stormont etc.) It's on say Level 10, whereas Irishness is on about Level 1.
As the demographics change in time, things change. Bi-lingual roads names is an issue for unionists now. The narrative for unionists nowadays is...if nationalists get something, then we must also get something therefor that gap will always exist in terms of symbolism as the gap was that big in the first place.
Isn't it ironic now that SF want this place to work while the DUP are doing their best not to make it work?
As I said yesterday, Féile has been fantastic for west Belfast. ...compared to what went before.
If the Wolfe Tones go, what will be next? Will there be a campaign to cancel a discussion on the causes of the conflict (if there's a debate next year)? Will there be a campaign to cancel a GAA blitz next year?
Where does it stop?
We see how Colin Harvey is treated, how your man Kelly of Manufacturing ni is treated when he said the protocol is good for business? We see it in the campaign to limit the movement of facultities away from Coleraine to Derry. We see it in the campaign to damage gaa clubs and their members.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:47:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
You haven't answered the question. If I ask you if you believe the British Army were a terrorist organisation, then clearly I'm asking you about the British Army and not the IRA. At a loss as to why you won't state your opinion. If a terrorist organisation is one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims", does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
What are you raving about "hill to die on"? Not dying on any hill. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to say the IRA killed thousands. Now I understand that you'd prefer to get away with telling such a lie, but I think it was worth calling out, because it says something about you.
I'm not raving. And it says far more about you than it does about me when you are an apologist for murderers.
Were the British Army* a terrorist organisation, Trailer?
*Note: My question is about the British Army, not the IRA.
Were the IRA?
Quote from: screenexile on August 16, 2022, 01:56:55 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 12:18:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 16, 2022, 12:13:39 PM
Plenty of hypocrisy to go round in this place, that never changes but making it easy for them needs to change and that goes for the Wolfe Tones at the Féile and the bonefire in Derry.
One tiny bonfire in Derry City (which afaik, everybody disagrees with) in comparsion to hundreds every 11th night in the north - with everything irish on top, from politicians' posters, religious statues, gaa posters and much more.
Yeah, we must talk alright. Ffs.
Well obviously not everybody disagrees with it when there looked to be a few hundred at it.
Haven't heard from SF that they disagreed with it either!!
I'm sure they'd say it's time for that annual bonfire to go. It benefits no-one.
Féile shows how a proper programme of events can be organised and developed over time.
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 16, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
When ever ye get round to scaling down ir stopping mimicking "Loyalist" carry on can the first step be to abolish those godawful "republican flute bands"?
They're an insult to our thousands of years of great Irish music heritage.
Absolutely, they're horrendous
I agree 100%.
Quote from: marty34 on August 16, 2022, 03:05:40 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:57:24 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 16, 2022, 01:40:42 PM
When ever ye get round to scaling down ir stopping mimicking "Loyalist" carry on can the first step be to abolish those godawful "republican flute bands"?
They're an insult to our thousands of years of great Irish music heritage.
Absolutely, they're horrendous
I agree 100%.
Fully agree. Penalty of death for anyone found guilty
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:47:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
You haven't answered the question. If I ask you if you believe the British Army were a terrorist organisation, then clearly I'm asking you about the British Army and not the IRA. At a loss as to why you won't state your opinion. If a terrorist organisation is one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims", does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
What are you raving about "hill to die on"? Not dying on any hill. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to say the IRA killed thousands. Now I understand that you'd prefer to get away with telling such a lie, but I think it was worth calling out, because it says something about you.
I'm not raving. And it says far more about you than it does about me when you are an apologist for murderers.
Were the British Army* a terrorist organisation, Trailer?
*Note: My question is about the British Army, not the IRA.
Were the IRA?
Stop ducking and diving. Were the British Army a terrorist organisation?
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 03:04:50 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:47:11 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:40:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:27:43 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
I have answered the question. If I call the British Army a terrorist organisation or not, does not change that the IRA are a terrorist organisation.
You haven't answered the question. If I ask you if you believe the British Army were a terrorist organisation, then clearly I'm asking you about the British Army and not the IRA. At a loss as to why you won't state your opinion. If a terrorist organisation is one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims", does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 02:06:56 PM
Quote
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Weird hill to die on, but ok.
What are you raving about "hill to die on"? Not dying on any hill. I merely pointed out that you were wrong to say the IRA killed thousands. Now I understand that you'd prefer to get away with telling such a lie, but I think it was worth calling out, because it says something about you.
I'm not raving. And it says far more about you than it does about me when you are an apologist for murderers.
Were the British Army* a terrorist organisation, Trailer?
*Note: My question is about the British Army, not the IRA.
Were the IRA?
Stop ducking and diving. Were the British Army a terrorist organisation?
He's been asked that 3 or 4 times now but no answer.
Although he gives a real definate answer on the IRA.
Not sure if he was talking about the 'old IRA' or the 'new IRA' though.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Brainwashed? So I'm wrong when I say the IRA didn't kill "thousands"?
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Brainwashed? So I'm wrong when I say the IRA didn't kill "thousands"?
You are pathetic
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Brainwashed? So I'm wrong when I say the IRA didn't kill "thousands"?
You are pathetic
You're weird.
Taking to a few the day about the Wolf Tones, and there honest opinion is when the f**k are people gonna grow up, with that chanting. The majority who weren't around durig the troubles and a band bleeding dry the public for old tunes, then piss off back south not giving a shit about the fall out after it. I honestly starting to put it down to a city thing, city people mentality to townies, or country people, just different. Until we sort out our own issues, with the past especially too many, with blinkers on We never be in a position to point out the pure shit storm farce, of what Unionism is. Honestly think if a united Ireland (which I vote for) happened in the morning, I wouldn't give a f**k. Ireland just descend into the mess that happened Britain's withdrawn from India and Palestine which still has fall out 70yrs later.
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
There are many thousands of British, Unionist people who aren't belligerent, intransigent, right wing etc. A lot of people on here tend to tar all Unionists with the same loyalist brush.
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on August 16, 2022, 04:52:37 PM
Do you imagine those chanting the same song at The Boe Inn in Dromore during the Ulster Fleadh were city folk?
Or indeed, the Tyrone senior football team returning from a game on the bus?
Similarly, I think you would find quite a few people from the city who would associate this type of behaviour with country folk, having only experienced it when passing through the holylands of a night.
But I think to suggest that there aren't plenty of young people in places like Dunloy, Ballinderry, Galbally, Kilcoo, Killeavy or Derrygonnelly who would enjoy such, then I believe that you may be very much mistaken.
There are only so many times we can sing Friends In Low Places in one night to be fair.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Brainwashed? So I'm wrong when I say the IRA didn't kill "thousands"?
You are pathetic
You're weird.
What kinda weirdo makes a hallow political point in the manner you did . So so pathetic. It just reads who gives a feck aboit the 1700 as long as it wasn't 2000. Absolute tool, sick actually
Worked in Belfast for 17yrs in ever area of Belfast, and to be honest I didn't think too much of Belfast, (Only Larne, Ballymena, Drumahoe been worst areas) with the M2 out of it been the best thing about it.
Quote from: michaelg on August 16, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
There are many thousands of British, Unionist people who aren't belligerent, intransigent, right wing etc. A lot of people on here tend to tar all Unionists with the same loyalist brush.
Funny you mention it that does my nut in. The likes of binlid Bryson talks about the PUL community like a) they're all the same and b) he represents them all.
This thread illustrates the wide range of views on nationalism with some being none too favourable and some being fine - unionism has that too.
There is some acronym you can see them starting - I think CNR. It's the for us or against us culture. It's the same with the woke thing and right wing thing now. Load of ballix.
Belfast is very good in areas and rough as in some too. It's just the way any city is.
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 06:06:44 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 04:08:09 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 02:42:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 16, 2022, 02:37:20 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 01:35:13 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 16, 2022, 01:20:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 16, 2022, 10:44:03 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 15, 2022, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 15, 2022, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Define terrorist.
A person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
So the British Army weren't terrorist because their violence and intimidation has the legal backing of the state?
Hello? Trailer??
Hello what?
The IRA are a terrorist organisation who murdered 1000s of people many from their own communities. It was nothing more than a bunch of hard men talking about freeing Ireland but in reality its only aims were to enrich themselves and carry out mass murder. Women, Children, Innocent people it didn't matter.
Other terrorist organisations did the same. The British government waged hell on the people here. But yet peace won out eventually. Men and Women of peace.
Now were talking about a United Ireland but can't even unite here to condemn sicking chanting and pro terrorist songs ffs. It not culture, it's not tradition, it sicking glorification of murder. We need to legislate so that those who engage in it are charged with a hate crime. Stamp it right out.
That's a veeeery long winded way of not answering the question. I'll try again:
You define a terrorist group as one that "uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims". Does that mean the British Army was not a terrorist group because it's violence and intimidation enjoyed the legal backing of the state?
P.s. You remind me of Colm Eastwood who last week also claimed that the IRA killed "thousands". Which is of course, a lie.
Naw you are right they only killed 1700-sweet jesus catch yerself on man, 50%
So not thousands. But I suppose when you want to score points, who cares about lying about the deaths of hundreds of people, eh?
Redner for you, totally brainwashed
Brainwashed? So I'm wrong when I say the IRA didn't kill "thousands"?
You are pathetic
You're weird.
What kinda weirdo makes a hallow political point in the manner you did . So so pathetic. It just reads who gives a feck aboit the 1700 as long as it wasn't 2000. Absolute tool, sick actually
So it's OK to lie about who killed over 300 people, it's "sick" to challenge someone who for telling the lie? Hmmm
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
Trans link are now reviewing their sponsorship of the teddy bears picnic.
Seriously.
World has gone mad.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
More just accepting off it than fine tbh. I've had many a nights craic singing the tunes. Wouldn't dream of it now, cringe at the thought. I'll not be anywhere hearing uvf chants but no doubt it exists. As years go on it will lessen. My point maybe poorly made is just let it reach it's natural conclusion.
Ach its still hard to beat an aul Rebs session Charlie, (in the right environment of course!!)
Quote from: Targetman on August 16, 2022, 10:53:57 PM
Ach its still hard to beat an aul Rebs session Charlie, (in the right environment of course!!)
A slow boat on the Irish sea.
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
More just accepting off it than fine tbh. I've had many a nights craic singing the tunes. Wouldn't dream of it now, cringe at the thought. I'll not be anywhere hearing uvf chants but no doubt it exists. As years go on it will lessen. My point maybe poorly made is just let it reach it's natural conclusion.
Things will eventually reach their natural conclusion, and the inevitable is happening, but if we are to move into a New Ireland we need to make concessions, as do the unionist/loyalists. For too long we have lived in a nose thumbing society which basically says we will do what we want and you have to just suck it up. Whilst that may be more from one side of the fence than the other that doesn't mean it doesn't happen from everywhere. I want my children to grow up where this is all part of history. 2 of them are studying history in school and they are doing the Troubles up to the GFA. This is now 'history'. Let's consign the whole lot to history and try to have an accommodation in the way we live. It won't happen the other way too easily but that's the last bark of the crying dog. Be the grown ups and lead it out.
Quote from: michaelg on August 16, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
There are many thousands of British, Unionist people who aren't belligerent, intransigent, right wing etc. A lot of people on here tend to tar all Unionists with the same loyalist brush.
I'm not tarring anyone. I know many Unionists who are nothing of the sort, although they aren't as insecure as to describe themselves as "unapologetically British".
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
You make the equivalence of "kids shouting UVF" when the proper equivalence is the local flute band which will either be UVF or UDA orientated. They don't have to worry about who they are or what they represent because it's seen as perfectly normal for them to go about expressing their culture in public, more often than not in areas they're not even from. Perfect example is that that mob from Larne who had special uniforms made for their wee day in Derry a few years ago.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 17, 2022, 08:19:31 AM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 10:10:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
More just accepting off it than fine tbh. I've had many a nights craic singing the tunes. Wouldn't dream of it now, cringe at the thought. I'll not be anywhere hearing uvf chants but no doubt it exists. As years go on it will lessen. My point maybe poorly made is just let it reach it's natural conclusion.
Things will eventually reach their natural conclusion, and the inevitable is happening, but if we are to move into a New Ireland we need to make concessions, as do the unionist/loyalists. For too long we have lived in a nose thumbing society which basically says we will do what we want and you have to just suck it up. Whilst that may be more from one side of the fence than the other that doesn't mean it doesn't happen from everywhere. I want my children to grow up where this is all part of history. 2 of them are studying history in school and they are doing the Troubles up to the GFA. This is now 'history'. Let's consign the whole lot to history and try to have an accommodation in the way we live. It won't happen the other way too easily but that's the last bark of the crying dog. Be the grown ups and lead it out.
Precisely. Let's not accuse one "side" of doing something and then do exactly the same ourselves. There is plenty of room for both cultures.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 16, 2022, 09:21:00 PM
Trans link are now reviewing their sponsorship of the teddy bears picnic.
Seriously.
World has gone mad.
That's thon Nolan p***k stirring shit again. How dare you give Teddy bears to a bunch of fenian kids.
In fairness holding a review is the equivalent of doing nothing and I fully expect Translink to let it slide for 6 months then continue.
Quote from: general_lee on August 17, 2022, 08:28:06 AM
Quote from: michaelg on August 16, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
There are many thousands of British, Unionist people who aren't belligerent, intransigent, right wing etc. A lot of people on here tend to tar all Unionists with the same loyalist brush.
I'm not tarring anyone. I know many Unionists who are nothing of the sort, although they aren't as insecure as to describe themselves as "unapologetically British".
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
You make the equivalence of "kids shouting UVF" when the proper equivalence is the local flute band which will either be UVF or UDA orientated. They don't have to worry about who they are or what they represent because it's seen as perfectly normal for them to go about expressing their culture in public, more often than not in areas they're not even from. Perfect example is that that mob from Larne who had special uniforms made for their wee day in Derry a few years ago.
So its ok then? Whatever spin you want to put on it, mine was a direct link to thousands shouting up the ra and other kids shouting up the UVF if we say "ach sure its only a bitta craic" but have an opinion when kids from the other side are doing it its a bit daft don't you think?
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 08:56:10 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 17, 2022, 08:28:06 AM
Quote from: michaelg on August 16, 2022, 05:34:18 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 16, 2022, 01:25:19 PM
The thing is, "Unapologetically British" in a 6 county context tends to mean being a belligerent, intransigent, right wing, anti-Irish supremacist.
The brass neck of DUP and other Loyalist politicians bemoaning one single bonfire in Derry when it's exactly the same thing they get up to every July on a much larger scale is almost unbelievable. Loyalist culture seems to be sacred - you can't challenge, criticise or oppose it without them going into full siege mentality.
There are many thousands of British, Unionist people who aren't belligerent, intransigent, right wing etc. A lot of people on here tend to tar all Unionists with the same loyalist brush.
I'm not tarring anyone. I know many Unionists who are nothing of the sort, although they aren't as insecure as to describe themselves as "unapologetically British".
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 16, 2022, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on August 16, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
If/when there is a UI. I'd like to think the OO no matter what we think of them would be accommodated to continue their culture. The band scene is a big part of PUL culture and isn't going away. There is a dodgy element at them parades. Growing up in a majority loyalist area I've witnessed it first hand. Things have changed though. My kids can walk around in gaa tops etc. The Wolfe Tones craic is a fugazi. No one really cares really. A load of kids shouting up the raa. They aren't running off to join the alphabet raa the next day. It's a reality of this place. I get the whole moral high ground thing but as someone else said it will be forgotten about in a few days when the next moral outrage comes along. Maybe we just accept these things will linger for a while yet. The broad black brimmer and the sash have certainly stuck around.
And it's also fine for thousands of kids to shout uuuvf!! If you are fine with that continuing then we've no problems at all
You make the equivalence of "kids shouting UVF" when the proper equivalence is the local flute band which will either be UVF or UDA orientated. They don't have to worry about who they are or what they represent because it's seen as perfectly normal for them to go about expressing their culture in public, more often than not in areas they're not even from. Perfect example is that that mob from Larne who had special uniforms made for their wee day in Derry a few years ago.
So its ok then? Whatever spin you want to put on it, mine was a direct link to thousands shouting up the ra and other kids shouting up the UVF if we say "ach sure its only a bitta craic" but have an opinion when kids from the other side are doing it its a bit daft don't you think?
It's not spin, it is fact. The IRA for all intents and purposes are defunct. Neither the UDA nor the UVF are; and if reports are to be believed there are some 12,500 members of Loyalist paramilitaries. Kids on the other side dont have to shout UVF, they just put on their band uniform and go marching. That is them saying up the UVF.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Agreed
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Totally agree.
These are the same people who compare the OO to the GAA.
Same as the bonfire in Derry City - was that the only one this year? People comparing it with hundreds of bonfires on the 11th night with anti-Irish stuff on top on them.
When unionists are down to one bonfire, then they can talk.
But this 'they're as bad as each other' narrative must be pulled up.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
If the only way to define a terrorist organisation is whether or not they ever targeted civilians, then can you name for me a single armed group anywhere that wasn't "terrorist"? Were the allied forces in WW2 terrorist? After all, they carpet bombed the densely populated city of Dresden for three days, dropping 3,900 tonnes of explosives on it, killing 25,000 people.
And lived experience doesn't alter basic facts. The IRA over the course of the conflict is estimated to have detonated approximately 19,000 bombs/IEDs. The overwhelming majority were directed at british security force personnel/infrastructure. Less than 1% of them resulted in civilian deaths. So if you believed that IRA campaign was directed at civilians, you'd have to say they were pretty awful at it. To quote the widely respected veteran BBC journalist Peter Taylor:
"by and large, the IRA tactic was not to kill civilians... Al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic state deliberately set out to kill as many innocent people as possible and that's epitomised by Al-Queda's attack on New York and Washington on 9/11.
In contrast the IRA's cardinal policy was not to deliberately go out and massacre civilians. Now I accept and I also qualified it with notable exceptions such as Tullyvallen Orange Hall and Whitecross massacre when protestant workmen were gunned down by the IRA, so there are notable exceptions.
With regard to Enniskillen the bomb was planted in a position to target security forces. The bomb was placed in a position where civilians were watching and whether or not that was deliberate, I very much doubt it.
It didn't actually pay the IRA to massacre and kill civilians...the IRA used violence primarily against security forces"Singing along to a rebel songs isn't the same as sectarian gloating over the murder of an innocent woman. No matter how how try to spin it.
Some people really need to drop the tribalism and look at things objectively. If you can't take the blinkers off and see how songs about the ra can be offensive to victims then I myself really do despair.
We are talking a lot lately about how better educated we are, how the status in the nationalist community as a whole has improved considerably.
We should have the confidence to call out the ooh aah, up the ra chants. Its so fuc###g cringey if nothing else, surely we have enough genuine culture and musical tradition, than to roar this shite at the end of another successful Feile.
The same goes for the bonfire in the bogside, I see some people saying, the loyalist/unionist community have 500 bonfires, we only have 1. 1 is too bloody many, it was embarrassing looking at pictures off it. People in the UK and down south look at the bonfires in disbelief.
We should have enough confidence in our own community, to celebrate our own culture without filling the pockets of the likes of the Wolfetones, who are well known to be mercenary, going back a long, long time.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Some people really need to drop the tribalism and look at things objectively. If you can't take the blinkers off and see how songs about the ra can be offensive to victims then I myself really do despair.
I agree 100% with BC1's previous comment on how this 'chant' belongs to a different era but we can't let loyalism/ hardline unionism drive the criticism.
We are giving them the perfect platform to criticise us, despite how hypocritical it may well be. Their culture of, bands, marching, bonfires and the orange order is rooted in hatred and tribalism, we should be able to rise above all that.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Some people really need to drop the tribalism and look at things objectively. If you can't take the blinkers off and see how songs about the ra can be offensive to victims then I myself really do despair.
Straw man argument. The point I made (as I'm sure you understood) is around the equivalence you attempted to draw between singing rebel songs and singing a song gloating about Michaela McAreavey's murder on honeymoon.
Did the Wolfe Tones pick a random innocent Protestant murder victim (one which took place long after the end of the Troubles) and lead a singsong gloating about it, with the crowd singing along? Of course they didn't. To imply that what they
did sing was just as bad, is just absolutely ridiculous.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Some people really need to drop the tribalism and look at things objectively. If you can't take the blinkers off and see how songs about the ra can be offensive to victims then I myself really do despair.
Straw man argument. The point I made (as I'm sure you understood) is around the equivalence you attempted to draw between singing rebel songs and singing a song gloating about Michaela McAreavey's murder on honeymoon.
Did the Wolfe Tones pick a random innocent Protestant murder victim (one which took place long after the end of the Troubles) and lead a singsong gloating about it, with the crowd singing along? Of course they didn't. To imply that what they did sing was just as bad, is just absolutely ridiculous.
I never tried to say they were equally bad, of course the McAreavey song is worse.
Both are wrong, that is my point. Do you really not see the issue with shouting up the ra in public in 2022??
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
If the only way to define a terrorist organisation is whether or not they ever targeted civilians, then can you name for me a single armed group anywhere that wasn't "terrorist"? Were the allied forces in WW2 terrorist? After all, they carpet bombed the densely populated city of Dresden for three days, dropping 3,900 tonnes of explosives on it, killing 25,000 people.
And lived experience doesn't alter basic facts. The IRA over the course of the conflict is estimated to have detonated approximately 19,000 bombs/IEDs. The overwhelming majority were directed at british security force personnel/infrastructure. Less than 1% of them resulted in civilian deaths. So if you believed that IRA campaign was directed at civilians, you'd have to say they were pretty awful at it. To quote the widely respected veteran BBC journalist Peter Taylor:
"by and large, the IRA tactic was not to kill civilians... Al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic state deliberately set out to kill as many innocent people as possible and that's epitomised by Al-Queda's attack on New York and Washington on 9/11.
In contrast the IRA's cardinal policy was not to deliberately go out and massacre civilians. Now I accept and I also qualified it with notable exceptions such as Tullyvallen Orange Hall and Whitecross massacre when protestant workmen were gunned down by the IRA, so there are notable exceptions.
With regard to Enniskillen the bomb was planted in a position to target security forces. The bomb was placed in a position where civilians were watching and whether or not that was deliberate, I very much doubt it.
It didn't actually pay the IRA to massacre and kill civilians...the IRA used violence primarily against security forces"
Singing along to a rebel songs isn't the same as sectarian gloating over the murder of an innocent woman. No matter how how try to spin it.
The IRA. "Be thankful! At least we're not Al Queda"
Please everyone ignore Snapchat. He is brainwashed. He would put his hand in the fire if Michelle O' Neill asked him. A throwback. Most of us grew up in the last 30 years
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
If the only way to define a terrorist organisation is whether or not they ever targeted civilians, then can you name for me a single armed group anywhere that wasn't "terrorist"? Were the allied forces in WW2 terrorist? After all, they carpet bombed the densely populated city of Dresden for three days, dropping 3,900 tonnes of explosives on it, killing 25,000 people.
And lived experience doesn't alter basic facts. The IRA over the course of the conflict is estimated to have detonated approximately 19,000 bombs/IEDs. The overwhelming majority were directed at british security force personnel/infrastructure. Less than 1% of them resulted in civilian deaths. So if you believed that IRA campaign was directed at civilians, you'd have to say they were pretty awful at it. To quote the widely respected veteran BBC journalist Peter Taylor:
"by and large, the IRA tactic was not to kill civilians... Al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic state deliberately set out to kill as many innocent people as possible and that's epitomised by Al-Queda's attack on New York and Washington on 9/11.
In contrast the IRA's cardinal policy was not to deliberately go out and massacre civilians. Now I accept and I also qualified it with notable exceptions such as Tullyvallen Orange Hall and Whitecross massacre when protestant workmen were gunned down by the IRA, so there are notable exceptions.
With regard to Enniskillen the bomb was planted in a position to target security forces. The bomb was placed in a position where civilians were watching and whether or not that was deliberate, I very much doubt it.
It didn't actually pay the IRA to massacre and kill civilians...the IRA used violence primarily against security forces"
Singing along to a rebel songs isn't the same as sectarian gloating over the murder of an innocent woman. No matter how how try to spin it.
The IRA. "Be thankful! At least we're not Al Queda"
Lol
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
If the only way to define a terrorist organisation is whether or not they ever targeted civilians, then can you name for me a single armed group anywhere that wasn't "terrorist"? Were the allied forces in WW2 terrorist? After all, they carpet bombed the densely populated city of Dresden for three days, dropping 3,900 tonnes of explosives on it, killing 25,000 people.
And lived experience doesn't alter basic facts. The IRA over the course of the conflict is estimated to have detonated approximately 19,000 bombs/IEDs. The overwhelming majority were directed at british security force personnel/infrastructure. Less than 1% of them resulted in civilian deaths. So if you believed that IRA campaign was directed at civilians, you'd have to say they were pretty awful at it. To quote the widely respected veteran BBC journalist Peter Taylor:
"by and large, the IRA tactic was not to kill civilians... Al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic state deliberately set out to kill as many innocent people as possible and that's epitomised by Al-Queda's attack on New York and Washington on 9/11.
In contrast the IRA's cardinal policy was not to deliberately go out and massacre civilians. Now I accept and I also qualified it with notable exceptions such as Tullyvallen Orange Hall and Whitecross massacre when protestant workmen were gunned down by the IRA, so there are notable exceptions.
With regard to Enniskillen the bomb was planted in a position to target security forces. The bomb was placed in a position where civilians were watching and whether or not that was deliberate, I very much doubt it.
It didn't actually pay the IRA to massacre and kill civilians...the IRA used violence primarily against security forces"
Singing along to a rebel songs isn't the same as sectarian gloating over the murder of an innocent woman. No matter how how try to spin it.
The IRA. "Be thankful! At least we're not Al Queda"
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 11:57:51 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Some people really need to drop the tribalism and look at things objectively. If you can't take the blinkers off and see how songs about the ra can be offensive to victims then I myself really do despair.
Straw man argument. The point I made (as I'm sure you understood) is around the equivalence you attempted to draw between singing rebel songs and singing a song gloating about Michaela McAreavey's murder on honeymoon.
Did the Wolfe Tones pick a random innocent Protestant murder victim (one which took place long after the end of the Troubles) and lead a singsong gloating about it, with the crowd singing along? Of course they didn't. To imply that what they did sing was just as bad, is just absolutely ridiculous.
I never tried to say they were equally bad, of course the McAreavey song is worse.
Both are wrong, that is my point. Do you really not see the issue with shouting up the ra in public in 2022??
I didn't make any comment on the rebel singing, other than to say that the equivalence you drew was just absurd. Glad to see you back-tracking at least because your initial post was very clearly an attempt at drawing a parallel where none existed.
You want my two cents on the rebel singing? You book a rebel band to play in an exclusively republican area at a concert which, due to the band in question, only nationalists/republicans will attend anyway? I'm not one bit bothered. Book a band to play in Belfast City centre and they start belting out rebel songs? Not appropriate. Worth remembering though, that is that while the Wolfe Tones concert didn't receive public funding, the council does fund British Army parades which do take over the city centre. So we live in a statelet where only one of those events is allowed to be termed offensive, hence my reluctance to indulge/be conned by the latest "unionist fury" media campaign (which I think I'm correct in saying is the fourth one in the last fortnight - two of which were fury around events that didn't even happen). If you think this campaign is anything other than an attempt to brand and criminalise an entire community, then just consider that a BBC radio presenter is gloating on twitter that his show has managed to push Translink to reviewing sponsorship of a children's Teddybear's Picnic because it was a Féíle an Phobail event.
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 11:13:49 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:58:31 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:32:29 AM
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 10:26:29 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Unbelievable to think there are nationalists out there who are so conned by the latest media facilitated "unionist fury" campaign, that they would actually attempt to draw an equivalence between the singing of rebel songs and the singing of a sectarian song celebrating the murder of an innocent woman on her honeymoon.
Not sure I agree with you there Snapchat. It's not being conned, it's being able to look at things objectively. We can't cry that singing of that song in Dundonald was abhorrent and in the same breath sing songs that glorify a terrorist organisation that killed hundreds of civilians. Murder is murder
You might call the IRA a terrorist organisation. I most certainly would not. They were no more a terrorist organisation than were the Volunteers of 1916 or the Tan War. But that's neither here nor there - singing along to a rebel song is not the same as singing a song which gloating about a death of a Catholic girl who was murdered on her honeymoon. If you really believe that they are equivalents, I really do despair.
You're fully entitled to hold that opinion. Not sure why you would despair at what my beliefs are. Everyone's beliefs are formed through their upbringing and life experiences.
IRA murdered innocent civilians in the protestant community (and our own) - Nationalists and Republicans sing songs glorifying them
Catholic girl murdered on her honeymoon - Unionists / Loyalists singing songs glorifying them
If the only way to define a terrorist organisation is whether or not they ever targeted civilians, then can you name for me a single armed group anywhere that wasn't "terrorist"? Were the allied forces in WW2 terrorist? After all, they carpet bombed the densely populated city of Dresden for three days, dropping 3,900 tonnes of explosives on it, killing 25,000 people.
And lived experience doesn't alter basic facts. The IRA over the course of the conflict is estimated to have detonated approximately 19,000 bombs/IEDs. The overwhelming majority were directed at british security force personnel/infrastructure. Less than 1% of them resulted in civilian deaths. So if you believed that IRA campaign was directed at civilians, you'd have to say they were pretty awful at it. To quote the widely respected veteran BBC journalist Peter Taylor:
"by and large, the IRA tactic was not to kill civilians... Al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic state deliberately set out to kill as many innocent people as possible and that's epitomised by Al-Queda's attack on New York and Washington on 9/11.
In contrast the IRA's cardinal policy was not to deliberately go out and massacre civilians. Now I accept and I also qualified it with notable exceptions such as Tullyvallen Orange Hall and Whitecross massacre when protestant workmen were gunned down by the IRA, so there are notable exceptions.
With regard to Enniskillen the bomb was planted in a position to target security forces. The bomb was placed in a position where civilians were watching and whether or not that was deliberate, I very much doubt it.
It didn't actually pay the IRA to massacre and kill civilians...the IRA used violence primarily against security forces"
Singing along to a rebel songs isn't the same as sectarian gloating over the murder of an innocent woman. No matter how how try to spin it.
The IRA. "Be thankful! At least we're not Al Queda"
Ah Trailer, welcome back. Maybe you might finally grow a pair and answer this straight forward question: Were the British army terrorist?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get at a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
Dont dispute figures with Fear.
"Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage".
Re: SF a few months backs and when asked to come up numbers a few times etc. unsurprising he didn't/couldn't.
Caught spoofing on the price of student rooms/houses in the Holylands a while back also until a few lads pulled him up on it.
Once again I ask, if the Wolfe Tones are cancelled, what other groups/bands do get cancelled?
Are we going to do a list of songs that are allowed? Which ones are allowed and not allowed?
Do up a list.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on August 17, 2022, 12:55:37 PM
It's simple - if you hold a group of non-PLUs to a different standard (usually higher) that your own PLU, then don't be surprised if at least some people pull you up on it.
* PLU - People Like Us, not PUL!
Kinda my very point. If you are a unionist politician/BBC presenter who thinks it's OK for the British Army, including the UDR (of all regiments), to parade through the shared space of the city centre (at the expense of the taxpayer) and you refuse to accept that this might be offensive to nationalists; then you're in no position to cry about being offended when a rebel band plays rebel music in an exclusively republican area with to an exclusively republican audience, paid for without public money.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
No you didnt, you said Eastwood said thousands and got wile annoyed, wise up
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Quote from: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
Dont dispute figures with Fear.
"Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage".
Re: SF a few months backs and when asked to come up numbers a few times etc. unsurprising he didn't/couldn't.
Caught spoofing on the price of student rooms/houses in the Holylands a while back also until a few lads pulled him up on it.
Once again I ask, if the Wolfe Tones are cancelled, what other groups/bands do get cancelled?
Are we going to do a list of songs that are allowed? Which ones are allowed and not allowed?
Do up a list.
Spoofing is a wee bit of an exaggeration. Anyhow you are another boy who would shite in his pants and sit in them all day if SF asked. You probably call MMcG "Our Chieftain" Redner
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
No you didnt, you said Eastwood said thousands and got wile annoyed, wise up
I said it reminded me of Eastwood, who recently came out with the same lie. Just a statement of fact. Doesn't alter my point which is that it's wrong to lie about who killed over 300 people in the conflict, and it's twisted to refer to someone as a "sick", "twisted", "shallow", heartless" "gimp" for saying it's wrong.
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 01:38:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
No you didnt, you said Eastwood said thousands and got wile annoyed, wise up
I said it reminded me of Eastwood, who recently came out with the same lie. Just a statement of fact. Doesn't alter my point which is that it's wrong to lie about who killed over 300 people in the conflict, and it's twisted to refer to someone as a "sick", "twisted", "shallow", heartless" "gimp" for saying it's wrong.
You are all of the above. Take yer oil
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Like I said they (not all) carried out some wicked terrorists attacks, I'd have been witness to some of that... But the regular squaddie was just trying to keep his head down and get his tour done and out ta feck..
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 01:38:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
No you didnt, you said Eastwood said thousands and got wile annoyed, wise up
I said it reminded me of Eastwood, who recently came out with the same lie. Just a statement of fact. Doesn't alter my point which is that it's wrong to lie about who killed over 300 people in the conflict, and it's twisted to refer to someone as a "sick", "twisted", "shallow", heartless" "gimp" for saying it's wrong.
You are all of the above. Take yer oil
You abused me earlier using the term "gimp" and had your post deleted by the mods. Now that you have not only repeated that abuse, but added additional abusive slurs, I can only hope you have earned yourself a ban.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Like I said they (not all) carried out some wicked terrorists attacks, I'd have been witness to some of that... But the regular squaddie was just trying to keep his head down and get his tour done and out ta feck..
Similarly, the regular Volunteer was just trying to get the British out ta feck and had no interest/desire to target civilians.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 01:38:53 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
This has nothing to do with a political party. Trailer overstated the number of people killed by the IRA by the tune of at least 300 people. I called out that as a lie, given that the truth of who killed who is, to most people (and especially to those who lost someone) deeply important. For simply calling out the lie, you called me "sick", a "gimp" and now added to that "shallow" and "heartless"
So which is more "shallow and heartless": lying about who killed over 300 people, or challenging someone who lies about their deaths?
No you didnt, you said Eastwood said thousands and got wile annoyed, wise up
I said it reminded me of Eastwood, who recently came out with the same lie. Just a statement of fact. Doesn't alter my point which is that it's wrong to lie about who killed over 300 people in the conflict, and it's twisted to refer to someone as a "sick", "twisted", "shallow", heartless" "gimp" for saying it's wrong.
You are all of the above. Take yer oil
You abused me earlier using the term "gimp" and had your post deleted by the mods. Now that you have not only repeated that abuse, but added additional abusive slurs, I can only hope you have earned yourself a ban.
Ye big cry a baby tout, youve called me worse
Good man, keep the abuse coming.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Firstly this requires a lot of explanation and I do not live on this board like yourself so here is a very brief answer, but in an ideal world and if I had more time on my hands I would like to develop the points further.
I can already pre-empt your response, West Brit, Stoop, Brit, and probably much worse, don't worry, I don't care. It's my opinion and view.
The British Army would say that they had the legitimacy from their government and of course that government was democratically elected so that would not make them a terrorist organisation per se. Whether you or I like it, they view the six counties as British. Did they commit awful crimes against the population here? Absolutely. Did they commit war crimes? Absolutely. Will they ever face justice? Not a chance and the exact same goes for the IRA.
The IRA deliberately target civilians no matter what you say. Detonating a bomb in a public space will kill innocent people. Only a buffoon would say it wouldn't regardless of who it was meant to target. The IRA also made use of Human Bombs. There is nothing that you can say that will ever justify what they did. And for what? To call a ceasefire and then administer British Power? It makes no sense to me.
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
I do not live on this board like yourself
lol Is that right? You've been a member for four years less than I have and still managed to post 3,415 more posts than me.
Trailer:POSTS: 4165 (2.502 per day)
Snapchap:POSTS:1200 (0.428 per day)
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
so here is a very brief answer, but in an ideal world and if I had more time on my hands I would like to develop the points further.
I can already pre-empt your response, West Brit, Stoop, Brit, and probably much worse, don't worry, I don't care. It's my opinion and view.
The British Army would say that they had the legitimacy from their government and of course that government was democratically elected so that would not make them a terrorist organisation per se.
I didn't ask if the British Army would view itself as a terrorist organisation. I asked if you view them as such. You were able to give a one word reply to whether the IRA were terrorists. Why don't you do the same for the British Army?
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
The IRA deliberately target civilians no matter what you say. Detonating a bomb in a public space will kill innocent people. Only a buffoon would say it wouldn't regardless of who it was meant to target. The IRA also made use of Human Bombs. There is nothing that you can say that will ever justify what they did. And for what? To call a ceasefire and then administer British Power? It makes no sense to me.
The IRA actively targeted civilians in a miniscule proportion of instances though, that's the bit you don't seem to want to accept because that would leave your narrative in tatters. As I said, they are estimated to have detonated 19,000 IEDs with only around 1% of these resulting in civilian deaths. Most of those were not deliberate. If you call them terrorists because of the number of civilians they targeted, then it's all the more baffling that you refuse to call the British Army terrorists, given that a majority of it's victims actually were civilians.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Like I said they (not all) carried out some wicked terrorists attacks, I'd have been witness to some of that... But the regular squaddie was just trying to keep his head down and get his tour done and out ta feck..
Reads like a statement from the nio office.
Keeping the peace between two warring factions.
A few rotten eggs...ffs.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
Dont dispute figures with Fear.
"Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage".
Re: SF a few months backs and when asked to come up numbers a few times etc. unsurprising he didn't/couldn't.
Caught spoofing on the price of student rooms/houses in the Holylands a while back also until a few lads pulled him up on it.
Once again I ask, if the Wolfe Tones are cancelled, what other groups/bands do get cancelled?
Are we going to do a list of songs that are allowed? Which ones are allowed and not allowed?
Do up a list.
Spoofing is a wee bit of an exaggeration. Anyhow you are another boy who would shite in his pants and sit in them all day if SF asked. You probably call MMcG "Our Chieftain" Redner
What an embarrassing post.
Caught spoofing a few times and when called out on it, retorts with childish insults.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
I do not live on this board like yourself
lol Is that right? You've been a member for four years less than I have and still managed to post 3,415 more posts than me.
Trailer:
POSTS: 4165 (2.502 per day)
Snapchap:
POSTS:1200 (0.428 per day)
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
so here is a very brief answer, but in an ideal world and if I had more time on my hands I would like to develop the points further.
I can already pre-empt your response, West Brit, Stoop, Brit, and probably much worse, don't worry, I don't care. It's my opinion and view.
The British Army would say that they had the legitimacy from their government and of course that government was democratically elected so that would not make them a terrorist organisation per se.
I didn't ask if the British Army would view itself as a terrorist organisation. I asked if you view them as such. You were able to give a one word reply to whether the IRA were terrorists. Why don't you do the same for the British Army?
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
The IRA deliberately target civilians no matter what you say. Detonating a bomb in a public space will kill innocent people. Only a buffoon would say it wouldn't regardless of who it was meant to target. The IRA also made use of Human Bombs. There is nothing that you can say that will ever justify what they did. And for what? To call a ceasefire and then administer British Power? It makes no sense to me.
The IRA actively targeted civilians in a miniscule proportion of instances though, that's the bit you don't seem to want to accept because that would leave your narrative in tatters. As I said, they are estimated to have detonated 19,000 IEDs with only around 1% of these resulting in civilian deaths. Most of those were not deliberate. If you call them terrorists because of the number of civilians they targeted, then it's all the more baffling that you refuse to call the British Army terrorists, given that a majority of it's victims actually were civilians.
Like if you seriously can't see what is wrong with this statement I despair.
The IRA wasn't even any good as a terror group. They achieved exactly zero of its aims unless they were to just casually murder people, sell drugs and rob banks. They certainly didn't "get the brits out" which was their sole aim.
They were riddled with informers. Many were on the British Army's payroll. Scap, Donaldson, McGartland. And that's only who we know about who else was informing that we didn't know about? How did the SAS know about Loughgall?
And gobshites going around singing songs about them? I would f**king deny I knew anything about them!
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 03:24:49 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
I do not live on this board like yourself
lol Is that right? You've been a member for four years less than I have and still managed to post 3,415 more posts than me.
Trailer:
POSTS: 4165 (2.502 per day)
Snapchap:
POSTS:1200 (0.428 per day)
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
so here is a very brief answer, but in an ideal world and if I had more time on my hands I would like to develop the points further.
I can already pre-empt your response, West Brit, Stoop, Brit, and probably much worse, don't worry, I don't care. It's my opinion and view.
The British Army would say that they had the legitimacy from their government and of course that government was democratically elected so that would not make them a terrorist organisation per se.
I didn't ask if the British Army would view itself as a terrorist organisation. I asked if you view them as such. You were able to give a one word reply to whether the IRA were terrorists. Why don't you do the same for the British Army?
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:45:35 PM
The IRA deliberately target civilians no matter what you say. Detonating a bomb in a public space will kill innocent people. Only a buffoon would say it wouldn't regardless of who it was meant to target. The IRA also made use of Human Bombs. There is nothing that you can say that will ever justify what they did. And for what? To call a ceasefire and then administer British Power? It makes no sense to me.
The IRA actively targeted civilians in a miniscule proportion of instances though, that's the bit you don't seem to want to accept because that would leave your narrative in tatters. As I said, they are estimated to have detonated 19,000 IEDs with only around 1% of these resulting in civilian deaths. Most of those were not deliberate. If you call them terrorists because of the number of civilians they targeted, then it's all the more baffling that you refuse to call the British Army terrorists, given that a majority of it's victims actually were civilians.
Like if you seriously can't see what is wrong with this statement I despair.
The IRA wasn't even any good as a terror group. They achieved exactly zero of its aims unless they were to just casually murder people, sell drugs and rob banks. They certainly didn't "get the brits out" which was their sole aim.
They were riddled with informers. Many were on the British Army's payroll. Scap, Donaldson, McGartland. And that's only who we know about who else was informing that we didn't know about? How did the SAS know about Loughgall?
And gobshites going around singing songs about them? I would f**king deny I knew anything about them!
Asked yet again to give YOUR opinion on whether the British Army were terrorists, and all you can do, again, is go on a rant about the IRA. Enough waffling. Answer the question once and for all.
Snapchap has put in some shift since the weekend
Quote from: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 03:20:08 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:45:08 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 12:32:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 17, 2022, 12:10:18 PM
We didnt kill 2000 we only killed 1700 lol
Remember when the British Army and RUC conspired to erroneously place the blame for the McGurks Bar massacre on the IRA? 15 people died and families spent 40 years campaigning for the state to admit that it deliberately lied about who was responsible? The truth about who was responsible for what is actually important to people. And when you call me "sick" and a "gimp" for calling out the specific lie you and trailer attempted to peddle about the deaths of around 300 people, it makes me wonder were the 15 who died at McGurks Bar among the 300 victims you think it's ok to lie about.
You are making absolutely no sense. You didnt call out any specifics and I didnt peddle anything or dispute any figures, you are the only one doing that, only to get a a political party, you are more interested in that than anything else, mask slipped, shallow and heartless. Anois imigh leat
Dont dispute figures with Fear.
"Biggest landlord party in the North, not sure about the south. Very few dont have a second home in Donegal, hard on an industrial wage".
Re: SF a few months backs and when asked to come up numbers a few times etc. unsurprising he didn't/couldn't.
Caught spoofing on the price of student rooms/houses in the Holylands a while back also until a few lads pulled him up on it.
Once again I ask, if the Wolfe Tones are cancelled, what other groups/bands do get cancelled?
Are we going to do a list of songs that are allowed? Which ones are allowed and not allowed?
Do up a list.
Spoofing is a wee bit of an exaggeration. Anyhow you are another boy who would shite in his pants and sit in them all day if SF asked. You probably call MMcG "Our Chieftain" Redner
What an embarrassing post.
Caught spoofing a few times and when called out on it, retorts with childish insults.
Another big pair of knickers
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 17, 2022, 03:43:01 PM
Snapchap has put in some shift since the weekend
Just trying to reach Trailer levels of posts. Well maybe not Trailer. He seems to live on the board.
Can we not just agree that different people will have different views on the topic? ;D
It just shows the level of disparity in views held within our own community never mind cross community.
Quote from: Throw It Up Ref on August 17, 2022, 03:49:33 PM
Can we not just agree that different people will have different views on the topic? ;D
It just shows the level of disparity in views held within our own community never mind cross community.
Of course we can agree that people have different views. The problem is that Trailer won't actually
state his view is whether the British Army are terrorists!
Does anyone think they could convince small u unionists (the ones we want to work with to bring about in a United Ireland of equals) that they shouldn't really have an negative visceral reaction when they hear Oh ah up the ra songs sung by thousands of the next generation of nationalists.
As I've said ... some things should be left in the past if we want to bring about the future we'd all like to see. My worry is we're cutting our nose off to spite our faces the same as hardline unionism is doing.
Quote from: marty34 on August 17, 2022, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 17, 2022, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 17, 2022, 02:11:17 PM
What's 300 dead bodies between enemies.
Stay classy.
Were the British Army terrorist, Trailer?
For me there a lot of terrorist acts carried out by the army, there was also a lot of normal duties carried out by the army on behalf of the governments that put them their.. Do you view the UVF as terrorists?
Either they are all terrorist or they were just combatants of a war.. A very dirty war, the saying one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
If you were born up the street or around the corner or in another village based on your religion we'd be viewing things very different.
Accident of birth
Of course these things are complicated. The issue for trailer however, is that he posted a rigid definition of what makes a group "terrorist", and was most unequivocal in stating that he regarded the IRA as terrorists but yet seems determined to avoid answering whether or not the British Army were terrorists.
Like I said they (not all) carried out some wicked terrorists attacks, I'd have been witness to some of that... But the regular squaddie was just trying to keep his head down and get his tour done and out ta feck..
Reads like a statement from the nio office.
Keeping the peace between two warring factions.
A few rotten eggs...ffs.
Ok let me ask you a question did you back all the acts carried out by the IRA
Quote from: theskull1 on August 17, 2022, 03:54:47 PM
Does anyone think they could convince small u unionists (the ones we want to work with to bring about in a United Ireland of equals) that they shouldn't really have an negative visceral reaction when they hear Oh ah up the ra songs sung by thousands of the next generation of nationalists.
As I've said ... some things should be left in the past if we want to bring about the future we'd all like to see. My worry is we're cutting our nose off to spite our faces the same as hardline unionism is doing.
It's all about compromise. To make the whole place work we all have to make compromises. At the minute it's not even the small u Unionists who have to buy into the notion of a new Ireland, it's a lot of southern minds and middle of the road nationalists in the north who may not necessarily agree with a lot of what is going on. The demographic over the next 10 years will see a shift to a Protestant/unionist minority, but only a minimal minority. While the GFA may state 50% + 1 the reality is that will not work, as can be seen by Brexit. There needs to be a wider buy in and that all starts with optics, win the hearts and minds. Let the hard line unionists keep going the road they are going, it's a road to no town. The reality is that once there is a majority who will vote for a UI, by law it has to happen. Law does not win hearts and minds though and that's where the work needs to be done
Brexit was still forced on us and is here to stay.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Can we stop playing into the orangemen's hands in saying about ignoring the fleadh, the event that that happened at was nothing to do with the fleadh, it was run by a pub in the same town and time as the fleadh events were happening but it had absolutely nothing to do with the fleadh which was a superbly run week long event that was a cross community event which included Protestant marching bands
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 17, 2022, 09:44:19 AM
I think the Michaela McAreavey chant this summer was a watershed moment.
Sing songs are not being tolerated anymore by anyone. Even in my own experience from one's at work, friends etc, they would have went to the Wolfe Tones unapologetically in previous years, yet now cringe at the thought of it.
Can we really ignore the Fleadh and Wolfe Tones chants after the (completely justified) outrage at Dundonald Orange Hall?
Nordies are genetically tuned into outrage, get emotional about some event, jump up on the pulpit and be outraged, from Ulster to the Appalachians. Even some rap group were the object of Ulster outrage, what were they called, nutjob or kneecap? ffs a rap group? isn't that what rap/punk/protest music groups do? How did the Clash survive the outrage of the brethren with their London's Burning and become a pop standard?
If a few bell-ends sing some stupid rotten ditty about Michaela, why the compulsion to be outraged by their utter idiocy as if that idiocy was a reflection of society that needed to be called out?
As General Lee (I infer) was writing about, why not focus on the many positives in NI's society since the ceasefire and the utter lack of support for a return to old ways, not least the utter lack of support for loyalist pogroms.
A whole week of a fantastic gaelic cultural festival and in reality is the byline that it was a festival of hate? How can one measure that amount of cynicism about such a successful a gaelic cultural event, and the contrived controversy caused by a folk band who should already be in their grave, such is their lack of cultural / political relevance.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/as-an-east-antrim-protestant-im-just-jealous-we-dont-have-something-like-feile-an-phobail-says-regular-attendee-of-west-belfast-festival-41916483.html
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaYxavrWAAIo4tW?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: johnnycool on August 18, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaYxavrWAAIo4tW?format=jpg&name=small)
Holy f**k. I can't believe the IN printed that shite.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 18, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaYxavrWAAIo4tW?format=jpg&name=small)
There are some good points in it but I do think we should be calling out this "ooh aah up the ra" bullshit for what it is. Idiocy and unhelpful. We want to attract moderate unionists to think about joining us in a united Ireland this stuff is damaging and plays into the hands of those on the other side who would seek to harden the outlook of their moderates.
Even forgeting the unionists for a moment. Its just f**king stupid to be chanting like that about an armed group like they were some sort of football team.
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 18, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaYxavrWAAIo4tW?format=jpg&name=small)
Holy f**k. I can't believe the IN printed that shite.
1. Which bit is inaccurate and why?
2. Still waiting on you to state if you believe the British Army were terrorists?
If anyone still thinks there is genuine outrage about this and that it's not just a unionist fury campaign being facilitated by the media, consider:
1. At the Apprentice Boys Parade in Derry, stalls were selling Parachute Regiment flags just yards from where the Paras claimed some of their victims on Bloody Sunday. There has been no widespread, lengthy media coverage around this.
2. At the same event, Derry reporter Steve Bradley said that he had to endure and hour of sectarian singing about "Fenians, the Pope, the Virgin Mary, the UDA and UVF" from crowds of loyalists. The DUP MLA Gary Middleton (who the previos day was calling for funding to be withdrawn from the Féile) described the Apprentice Boys event where these chants were heard, as "one of the best there has ever been". No media outlet that I can see has reported on the sectarian singing and chanting. They're all too busy rounding on Féile an Phobail.
3. There was a succession of justified condemnation for a bonfire on the Bogside which burned unionist emblems. Media outlets covered the story extensively. What none of them reported was that loyalists built a bonfire bedecked in triclours on the same night in the Fountain Estate. As far as I can see, not one media outlet has even mentioned it.
Agreed .... I wouldn't trust mainstream media as far as I can throw them. They will over egg stories when it suits them and this is one of those stories, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is still an own goal.
To be honest there was alot of coverage of the flags on sale. Maybe not on Nolan, I only listen to the bollacks in small doses. Without division up here he have no programme as he have nothing to talk about.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 18, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
2. At the same event, Derry reporter Steve Bradley said that he had to endure and hour of sectarian singing about "Fenians, the Pope, the Virgin Mary, the UDA and UVF" from crowds of loyalists. The DUP MLA Gary Middleton (who the previos day was calling for funding to be withdrawn from the Féile) described the Apprentice Boys event where these chants were heard, as "one of the best there has ever been". No media outlet that I can see has reported on the sectarian singing and chanting. They're all too busy rounding on Féile an Phobail.
You are a nationalist Gary Middleton though. Do you really not see it? You turn a complete blind eye to your own sides antics whilst chastising themmuns for doing the same thing.
Also can we stop calling them "young people" when the majority of them look to be in their 20s at least. Fully grown adults ffs.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 18, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
If anyone still thinks there is genuine outrage about this and that it's not just a unionist fury campaign being facilitated by the media, consider:
1. At the Apprentice Boys Parade in Derry, stalls were selling Parachute Regiment flags just yards from where the Paras claimed some of their victims on Bloody Sunday. There has been no widespread, lengthy media coverage around this.
https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2022/08/15/news/bloody_sunday_victim_s_brother_hurt_by_sale_of_uvf_and_parachute_regiment_flags_in_derry-2798492/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2022/08/15/news/bloody_sunday_victim_s_brother_hurt_by_sale_of_uvf_and_parachute_regiment_flags_in_derry-2798492/content.html)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sale-parachute-regiment-flags-derry-24758954.amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sale-parachute-regiment-flags-derry-24758954.amp)
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html (https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html)
https://www.derrydaily.net/2022/08/14/police-seize-items-from-derry-stall-over-uvf-flag-for-sale/ (https://www.derrydaily.net/2022/08/14/police-seize-items-from-derry-stall-over-uvf-flag-for-sale/)
https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/888329/concerns-over-derry-parades-being-brought-before-council.html (https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/888329/concerns-over-derry-parades-being-brought-before-council.html)
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 18, 2022, 11:27:02 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 18, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
If anyone still thinks there is genuine outrage about this and that it's not just a unionist fury campaign being facilitated by the media, consider:
1. At the Apprentice Boys Parade in Derry, stalls were selling Parachute Regiment flags just yards from where the Paras claimed some of their victims on Bloody Sunday. There has been no widespread, lengthy media coverage around this.
https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2022/08/15/news/bloody_sunday_victim_s_brother_hurt_by_sale_of_uvf_and_parachute_regiment_flags_in_derry-2798492/content.html (https://www.irishnews.com/paywall/tsb/irishnews/news/northernirelandnews/2022/08/15/news/bloody_sunday_victim_s_brother_hurt_by_sale_of_uvf_and_parachute_regiment_flags_in_derry-2798492/content.html)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sale-parachute-regiment-flags-derry-24758954.amp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sale-parachute-regiment-flags-derry-24758954.amp)
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html (https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html)
https://www.derrydaily.net/2022/08/14/police-seize-items-from-derry-stall-over-uvf-flag-for-sale/ (https://www.derrydaily.net/2022/08/14/police-seize-items-from-derry-stall-over-uvf-flag-for-sale/)
https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/888329/concerns-over-derry-parades-being-brought-before-council.html (https://www.derrynow.com/news/local-news/888329/concerns-over-derry-parades-being-brought-before-council.html)
Two Derry regional papers and a facebook page.
Let's examine the Belfast Telegraph's coverage since the weekend of the two incidents:
Féile:https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-an-phobail-branded-a-hate-fest-after-video-shows-pro-ira-chanting-at-wolfe-tones-concert-41912431.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-an-phobail-branded-a-hate-fest-after-video-shows-pro-ira-chanting-at-wolfe-tones-concert-41912431.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wolfe-tones-silent-over-ira-chants-at-feile-an-phobail-gig-41916753.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wolfe-tones-silent-over-ira-chants-at-feile-an-phobail-gig-41916753.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-an-phobail-stop-booking-the-wolfe-tones-says-dup-after-embarrassing-pro-ira-chanting-41914148.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-an-phobail-stop-booking-the-wolfe-tones-says-dup-after-embarrassing-pro-ira-chanting-41914148.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-sponsors-come-under-pressure-following-pro-ira-chanting-at-wolfe-tones-gig-41915386.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-sponsors-come-under-pressure-following-pro-ira-chanting-at-wolfe-tones-gig-41915386.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wolfe-tones-frontman-responds-to-criticism-over-ira-chants-at-feile-gig-were-entitled-to-our-culture-41918274.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/wolfe-tones-frontman-responds-to-criticism-over-ira-chants-at-feile-gig-were-entitled-to-our-culture-41918274.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/watch-pro-ira-chants-during-feile-wolfe-tones-concert-41911883.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/watch-pro-ira-chants-during-feile-wolfe-tones-concert-41911883.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mla-calls-on-feile-an-phobail-to-detail-mitigations-on-stopping-pro-ira-chanting-at-sundays-wolfe-tones-concert-41907603.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mla-calls-on-feile-an-phobail-to-detail-mitigations-on-stopping-pro-ira-chanting-at-sundays-wolfe-tones-concert-41907603.html)
(https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-an-phobail-director-defends-popular-wolfe-tones-concert-as-dup-hits-back-at-claims-of-funding-carve-up-41915117.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-pro-ira-chanting-prompts-unionist-councillor-to-call-on-public-money-to-be-withdrawn-from-event-40756634.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/feile-pro-ira-chanting-prompts-unionist-councillor-to-call-on-public-money-to-be-withdrawn-from-event-40756634.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/comment/like-their-flags-the-full-horror-of-iras-war-is-above-their-heads-41914015.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/where-do-belfasts-biggest-community-festivals-get-their-funding-41916762.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/where-do-belfasts-biggest-community-festivals-get-their-funding-41916762.html)
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/calls-for-political-leadership-after-incidents-spark-outrage-41912443.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/calls-for-political-leadership-after-incidents-spark-outrage-41912443.html)
https://belfasttelegraph/posts/belfasts-feile-an-phobail-is-facing-questions-over-its-funding-after-a-video-sho/10160033693553819/ (https://belfasttelegraph/posts/belfasts-feile-an-phobail-is-facing-questions-over-its-funding-after-a-video-sho/10160033693553819/)
Para Flag in Derry at Apprentice Boys March:https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/police-seize-items-from-stall-after-report-of-paramilitary-flag-for-sale-41910022.html)
How about BBC Radio Ulster's flagship current affairs programme The Nolan Show:
Féile:3 days of coverage
Para Flag in Derry at Apprentice Boys March:0 days of coverage
Can you direct me to any news articles from any of the main news outlets about what Steve Bradley describes as an hour of sectarian singing about "Fenians, the Pope, the Virgin Mary, the UDA and UVF" at the Apprentice Boys parade which, unlike the Wolfe Tones concert, happened in a mixed area?
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 18, 2022, 11:17:43 AM
You are a nationalist Gary Middleton though. Do you really not see it? You turn a complete blind eye to your own sides antics whilst chastising themmuns for doing the same thing.
Really? Did I not only a couple of posts ago criticise the sectarian bonfire in the Bogside? Where have I criticised unionists for doing "the same thing" ref the Wolfe Tones? If loyalists want to get together in a loyalist area and sing loyalist songs, let them at it. You won't see me condemning them for it. As I said yesterday, I've no issue with the Wolfe Tones playing rebel music in a republican area to a crowd of paying republicans. I wouldn't endorse rebel music being played on stage in a mixed area like the city centre. Ditto loyalist/British Army parades through mixed areas, or loyalists singing about killing Fenians at an apprentice boys parade in Derry city centre.
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
I don't accept that for one minute. Where unionism/the media doesn't have an excuse to manufacture a 'unionist fury' story, they will just make one up. It's only a week since there was widespread unionist outrage about two events which didn't even happen.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Obviously. Anyone who calls themselves a nationalist and goes building bonfires to burn flags and emblems for instance is just a knuckle-dragging lowlife.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Snapchats argument is "Whatabout" ... watch here he comes... Whatabout the British Army.... takes responsibility for nothing, blames everyone else.
Snapchat is about 18 I'd say.
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Snapchats argument is "Whatabout" ... watch here he comes... Whatabout the British Army.... takes responsibility for nothing, blames everyone else.
Yes what about the British Army, do you regard them as terrorists, Trailer?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 18, 2022, 12:48:44 PM
Snapchat is about 18 I'd say.
Mods, how come this clown hasn't been banned after repeated instances of personal abuse yesterday? ???
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Snapchats argument is "Whatabout" ... watch here he comes... Whatabout the British Army.... takes responsibility for nothing, blames everyone else.
you could have just answered him
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2022, 01:51:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Snapchats argument is "Whatabout" ... watch here he comes... Whatabout the British Army.... takes responsibility for nothing, blames everyone else.
you could have just answered him
I did. He didn't like the answer so he continues to ask it. You can't teach stupid as they say.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 18, 2022, 01:15:16 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 18, 2022, 12:48:44 PM
Snapchat is about 18 I'd say.
Mods, how come this clown hasn't been banned after repeated instances of personal abuse yesterday? ???
lol, you must be 12 ye big crier, "mammy look at what he done". Up the back of the Creggan shops for you
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Agnew Group (Mercedes) have suspended a female ? Same one?
Quote from: Kidder81 on August 18, 2022, 02:40:45 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Agnew Group (Mercedes) have suspended a female ? Same one?
Yes, Loyalist investigators have been at their work. Mercedes Portadown.
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 02:18:37 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2022, 01:51:39 PM
Quote from: trailer on August 18, 2022, 12:45:21 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 18, 2022, 12:07:03 PM
But you accept that if we starve them of oxygen then it will give them no fuel?
Its not even that difficult to work out.. stop aping Loyalists
Surely we'd like to think we are above that, and after 30 years of Feile an Phobail (and I was there at Springhill, when you had, well I'll not mention) the place is in a far better position than those dark days
Snapchats argument is "Whatabout" ... watch here he comes... Whatabout the British Army.... takes responsibility for nothing, blames everyone else.
you could have just answered him
I did. He didn't like the answer so he continues to ask it. You can't teach stupid as they say.
You didn't. You told me the British Army doesn't see itself as terrorist. That doesn't tell us whether YOU see them as terrorist. Do you?
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Presumably the Celtic Symphony (oh ah up the ra)
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Presumably the Celtic Symphony (oh ah up the ra)
Jamie Bryson will be defending her, so she'll be grand
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Presumably the Celtic Symphony (oh ah up the ra)
One wonders why exactly you would post a video of yourself singing up the Ra if you worked in Portadown.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
I think she would have been grand if she was singing any of those songs in the video . . .
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Presumably the Celtic Symphony (oh ah up the ra)
One wonders why exactly you would post a video of yourself singing up the Ra if you worked in Portadown.
Young and immature would be my guess.
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 04:11:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 03:23:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 03:04:52 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 18, 2022, 02:49:32 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 18, 2022, 02:34:24 PM
I see a girl is getting her P45 after posting herself singing at WT gig...
Singing what exactly? I'm not quite in the Wolfe Tones fan club, but you could sing the Streets of New York with the Wolfe Tones and it would hardly be offensive to anyone or The Black Velvet band.
Presumably the Celtic Symphony (oh ah up the ra)
One wonders why exactly you would post a video of yourself singing up the Ra if you worked in Portadown.
Young and immature would be my guess.
Looks like she videoed and posted it herself.
Like I said, the Dundonald Orange Hall incident was a watershed moment. Alot of people will think twice now before taking part in a sing song.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 18, 2022, 05:06:20 PM
Like I said, the Dundonald Orange Hall incident was a watershed moment. Alot of people will think twice now before taking part in a sing song.
Does it end now? Or do we wait for the Richard Jameson Lambeg drumming competition? Or the Brian Robinson memorial parade to start doxxing Loyalists and telling their employers they like to spend their free time glorifying terrorists?
One good thing , Unionists less likely to be having this internal debate, they have loads of Snapchats and Martys
Personal feuds seem to be appearing on this thread.
I'm asking everybody to cease the personal stuff, or all of you will get a week off the board.
No more warnings.
Will folk get suspended from their jobs if caught singing the Billy Boys? I'm not so sure.
Quote from: clarshack on August 18, 2022, 09:53:44 PM
Will folk get suspended from their jobs if caught singing the Billy Boys? I'm not so sure.
If you get enough of a social media pile on I'd say yeah. Especially a big outfit.
I see some genius has been prank calling Bryson with threats about his son... some great volunteers for the cause 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
It wouldn't be too hard for the Wolf to best to by pass that song when they do gigs up here. I remember Iron Maiden bypassing on the song the trooper for a few years, and at a actual gig having to call out some pricks (in his words using a album cover as their Shankill Mural)
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
It wouldn't be too hard for the Wolf to best to by pass that song when they do gigs up here. I remember Iron Maiden bypassing on the song the trooper for a few years, and at a actual gig having to call out some pricks (in his words using a album cover as their Shankill Mural)
The actual song ain't the problem, it has been performed at many, many venues across the north for the last 33 years with not a word said outside of Feile ... the problem is the faux outrage aided and abetted by the biased northern press led by Stephen Nolan. What is more shocking is how many from a supposed nationalist background on this board who have been swayed by the reporting of that same press. So you get rid of Celtic Symphony, then what ... Broad Black Brimmer ... Sean South, Come Out Ye Black 'n Tans ... Boys of the Old Brigade ... then when done with the songs, let's move on to renaming GAA clubs across the north?! The problem ain't the song when performed to 10,000 people in a park in West Belfast, none of whom in attendance took any offence to it ... the problem is the faux outrage from the usual suspects who were not in attendance, and they are best ignored. Andree Murphy hit the nail on the head in today's Irish News.
To those who make comparisons between a song written for Celtic FC's 100th Anniversary and performed across the world without issue, and a song being sung in an OO hall, written to mock the murder of a Catholic bride on honeymoon ... catch a grip.
Quote from: screenexile on August 18, 2022, 10:43:25 PM
Quote from: clarshack on August 18, 2022, 09:53:44 PM
Will folk get suspended from their jobs if caught singing the Billy Boys? I'm not so sure.
If you get enough of a social media pile on I'd say yeah. Especially a big outfit.
I see some genius has been prank calling Bryson with threats about his son... some great volunteers for the cause 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
For me Ooh ah up the Ra and the Billy Boys are on the same level. The Michaela McAreavey song was on a completely different level altogether.
It's a slippery slope, do we start cancelling people who were even at the concert at the weekend or any Wolfe Tones concert in the past? Where does it end?
It's simple and has nothing to do with WT's or any of their songs... if you want a UI then you'll not get it without the soft unionists. Now if you are happy with the way things are then hell yes blast those tunes out and give them what they are looking for, an excuse to stay in the UK.
You won't get a UI in your life time without a percentage of their vote, forget the census, like Scotland you'll get those that are only concerned with their own lives and how their lifestyles (in their own heads) would be changed
Stop aping them is a start...
But the division has cranked up because of social media, the pure rotten comments on social media pages has shown that it won't be happening any day soon.
In fairness I still think it's a fairytale, it's getting worse
Also you shouldn't really be singing "ooh ah up the Ra" in this day and age...
As for above "do people who attended the concert get cancelled?"
Well no the girl who lost her job was on video singing ooh ah up the ra and hasn't the brains to realise you can't do that anymore.
Times change billy boys and Celtic symphony aren't gonna cut it anymore.
Quote from: clarshack on August 18, 2022, 09:53:44 PM
Will folk get suspended from their jobs if caught singing the Billy Boys? I'm not so sure.
From now on yes I think they would.
Quote from: clarshack on August 19, 2022, 12:24:13 AM
For me Ooh ah up the Ra and the Billy Boys are on the same level.
Yes because as we all know, Celtic Symphony is a song about an imagined genocide too ::)
The Billy Boys is seen as perfectly acceptable, and to be honest if they want to sing a sectarian Rangers chant eulogising a fascist gang then let them tear away. They were doing it last weekend on the streets of Derry and they'll be doing at the next band parade no doubt.
I think anyone that posts anything sectarian on social media is fair game, these pile ons aren't new either. Has happened quite a lot between Celtic and Rangers fans. People either need to stop being bigots or else do so privately.
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 19, 2022, 06:24:05 AM
Quote from: clarshack on August 18, 2022, 09:53:44 PM
Will folk get suspended from their jobs if caught singing the Billy Boys? I'm not so sure.
From now on yes I think they would.
they shouldnt
In this case what was the person actually singing?
Quote from: balladmaker on August 19, 2022, 12:11:58 AM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2022, 10:55:32 PM
It wouldn't be too hard for the Wolf to best to by pass that song when they do gigs up here. I remember Iron Maiden bypassing on the song the trooper for a few years, and at a actual gig having to call out some pricks (in his words using a album cover as their Shankill Mural)
The actual song ain't the problem, it has been performed at many, many venues across the north for the last 33 years with not a word said outside of Feile ... the problem is the faux outrage aided and abetted by the biased northern press led by Stephen Nolan. What is more shocking is how many from a supposed nationalist background on this board who have been swayed by the reporting of that same press. So you get rid of Celtic Symphony, then what ... Broad Black Brimmer ... Sean South, Come Out Ye Black 'n Tans ... Boys of the Old Brigade ... then when done with the songs, let's move on to renaming GAA clubs across the north?! The problem ain't the song when performed to 10,000 people in a park in West Belfast, none of whom in attendance took any offence to it ... the problem is the faux outrage from the usual suspects who were not in attendance, and they are best ignored. Andree Murphy hit the nail on the head in today's Irish News.
To those who make comparisons between a song written for Celtic FC's 100th Anniversary and performed across the world without issue, and a song being sung in an OO hall, written to mock the murder of a Catholic bride on honeymoon ... catch a grip.
100%
Quote from: johnnycool on August 18, 2022, 09:25:39 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaYxavrWAAIo4tW?format=jpg&name=small)
That is a decent article, some rationality does exist in mainstream nordie media, we should listen to it instead of bellowing opinions from the pulpit.
Good article
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2022, 12:27:26 AM
It's simple and has nothing to do with WT's or any of their songs... if you want a UI then you'll not get it without the soft unionists. Now if you are happy with the way things are then hell yes blast those tunes out and give them what they are looking for, an excuse to stay in the UK.
I've not read this thread properly, nor do I intend to get into this whole, tired and tiresome "whataboutery" of who sang what and where etc.
But I was struck by that
one aspect of your otherwise measured and reasonable post(s).
Namely, Unionists don't "need an excuse" for staying in the UK. Rather we've got plenty of our own reasons for same, whether you appreciate them or not.
Rather, if there is to be a UI, then Nationalists need to offer us
reasons to join a UI.
Further, in your appeal to "soft Unionists", you don't seem to appreciate that the minute a Unionist - "soft" or otherwise - agrees to a UI, then that it is it, they are no longer a "Unionist" and have automatically abandoned their British identity.
And this last point is a crucial one, which even moderate Nationalists generally seem unable to comprehend. For when they say - sincerely no doubt - that Unionists will be welcome in any UI, they don't realise that
without the Union, there can be no Unionists, whether in the 6 northern counties or in the 32 counties as a whole. (Look to the Irish Free State post-1921 for proof of same)
Which gets us back to the need for Nationalists to provide positive, progressive reasons for Unionists to abandon the identity we've been holding on to for hundreds of years.
P.S. I would suggest to anyone on this board who is struggling with the above concepts, that they ask themselves the question: "What would it take* for me to abandon my Nationalist identity and throw my lot in fully with the UK?"
* - Another 800 years, perhaps? ;)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 03:43:33 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2022, 12:27:26 AM
It's simple and has nothing to do with WT's or any of their songs... if you want a UI then you'll not get it without the soft unionists. Now if you are happy with the way things are then hell yes blast those tunes out and give them what they are looking for, an excuse to stay in the UK.
I've not read this thread properly, nor do I intend to get into this whole, tired and tiresome "whataboutery" of who sang what and where etc.
But I was struck by that one aspect of your otherwise measured and reasonable post(s).
Namely, Unionists don't "need an excuse" for staying in the UK. Rather we've got plenty of our own reasons for same, whether you appreciate them or not.
Rather, if there is to be a UI, then Nationalists need to offer us reasons to join a UI.
Further, in your appeal to "soft Unionists", you don't seem to appreciate that the minute a Unionist - "soft" or otherwise - agrees to a UI, then that it is it, they are no longer a "Unionist" and have automatically abandoned their British identity.
And this last point is a crucial one, which even moderate Nationalists generally seem unable to comprehend. For when they say - sincerely no doubt - that Unionists will be welcome in any UI, they don't realise that without the Union, there can be no Unionists, whether in the 6 northern counties or in the 32 counties as a whole. (Look to the Irish Free State post-1921 for proof of same)
Which gets us back to the need for Nationalists to provide positive, progressive reasons for Unionists to abandon the identity we've been holding on to for hundreds of years.
P.S. I would suggest to anyone on this board who is struggling with the above concepts, that they ask themselves the question: "What would it take* for me to abandon my Nationalist identity and throw my lot in fully with the UK?"
* - Another 800 years, perhaps? ;)
As we're going to find out shortly there is neither a majority of unionists or nationalists, soft or otherwise in NI/6 counties with that trend only going in the one direction based on the age profiles of said groupings.
Unionist's hugging the east coast are oblivious to the growth in the Nationalist population around them.
Most of EG's post is pretty fair and we're probably mislabelling what will be called "former Unionists".
It is true that there will be a swathe of Unionists who if presented with the right case for a UI may well abandon their Unionist principles but as jc has pointed out the game is to convince the apathetic middle ground who have dropped the orange and green nonsense that a United Ireland is worth it.
Former Unionists need to be accommodated in a New Ireland absolutely and we can't make the mistakes made by Unionists of treating Catholics/Nationalists as second class citizens and less than. It has to start form the position of being a truly inclusive society and in time I think it will release the potential that's been here all along!
Quote from: screenexile on August 25, 2022, 04:12:34 PM
Most of EG's post is pretty fair and we're probably mislabelling what will be called "former Unionists".
It is true that there will be a swathe of Unionists who if presented with the right case for a UI may well abandon their Unionist principles but as jc has pointed out the game is to convince the apathetic middle ground who have dropped the orange and green nonsense that a United Ireland is worth it.
Former Unionists need to be accommodated in a New Ireland absolutely and we can't make the mistakes made by Unionists of treating Catholics/Nationalists as second class citizens and less than. It has to start form the position of being a truly inclusive society and in time I think it will release the potential that's been here all along!
Yes soft unionists is probably wrong, a protestant voter who wouldn't vote for UUP/DUP/TUV is probably best.. I'm a Nationalist which means I want to be in a UI .. how that comes about for me is through the ballot box, that sea of change, regardless johnny of this census will not be brought about by ignoring their views or how the numbers will add up, not all 'nationalists' catholics will vote to lose their current status
Quote from: screenexile on August 25, 2022, 04:12:34 PM
Most of EG's post is pretty fair and we're probably mislabelling what will be called "former Unionists".
It is true that there will be a swathe of Unionists who if presented with the right case for a UI may well abandon their Unionist principles but as jc has pointed out the game is to convince the apathetic middle ground who have dropped the orange and green nonsense that a United Ireland is worth it.
Former Unionists need to be accommodated in a New Ireland absolutely and we can't make the mistakes made by Unionists of treating Catholics/Nationalists as second class citizens and less than. It has to start form the position of being a truly inclusive society and in time I think it will release the potential that's been here all along!
He's overselling it. And by more than a little.
Firstly, the unionists that we'd be talking about are more than likely the Alliance voting type, whose unionist identity, whilst definitely relevant, is well down the pecking order in terms of things they hold dear.
Secondly, to say they'd have to "abandon" their British identity in a UI is nonsense. There are many nationalists currently living in the UK who have not abandoned anything. If anything, confidence in their identity has only grown in the past couple of decades. I'd suggest that any unionist who feels the need to abandon their identity in a hypothetical UI, wasn't that bothered about their identity to start with
And finally, with regard to his assertion that nationalists need to offer "reasons to join a UI" – there is some truth in this. But with the current behaviour of the DUP over here and the British govt pumping turds into rivers and displaying ever more fascist, inward-looking and corrupt behaviours, the reasons offered to get the fcuk out of this mess don't need to be particularly compelling
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 25, 2022, 04:29:46 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 25, 2022, 04:12:34 PM
Most of EG's post is pretty fair and we're probably mislabelling what will be called "former Unionists".
It is true that there will be a swathe of Unionists who if presented with the right case for a UI may well abandon their Unionist principles but as jc has pointed out the game is to convince the apathetic middle ground who have dropped the orange and green nonsense that a United Ireland is worth it.
Former Unionists need to be accommodated in a New Ireland absolutely and we can't make the mistakes made by Unionists of treating Catholics/Nationalists as second class citizens and less than. It has to start form the position of being a truly inclusive society and in time I think it will release the potential that's been here all along!
Yes soft unionists is probably wrong, a protestant voter who wouldn't vote for UUP/DUP/TUV is probably best.. I'm a Nationalist which means I want to be in a UI .. how that comes about for me is through the ballot box, that sea of change, regardless johnny of this census will not be brought about by ignoring their views or how the numbers will add up, not all 'nationalists' catholics will vote to lose their current status
Who mentioned anything about ignoring anyone?
I repeatedly said that a UI will come about by persuading that middle ground that a UI was in their best interests and I've always stated that SF are not the party to do that.
Just mentioning the census Johnny won't be the bit that'll get us over the line, I'm not say you are ignoring them but people feel this census is or will bring on a UI...
We could get there a lot sooner if there was a decent 'voice' that was able to bring a decent majority to the table..
Realistically it's taken nearly 60 years from the start of the troubles to now, could be another 60 to get over the line
Quote from: johnnycool on August 25, 2022, 04:06:18 PM
As we're going to find out shortly there is neither a majority of unionists or nationalists, soft or otherwise in NI/6 counties with that trend only going in the one direction based on the age profiles of said groupings.
Unionist's hugging the east coast are oblivious to the growth in the Nationalist population around them.
Ah, I see, you're another of those Nationalists who are now into their second "Century of Wishful Thinking"!
Lets get down to basics. It doesnt matter how you count the two tribes in a census - Prods, Unioniosts, Loyalists etc or RCs, Nats, Republicans etc.
Rather its about two things, how and whether they would vote in a Referendum.
And for the former ("how"), it's not about designation, policies, economics, personalities and tactical voting etc, i.e. the usual things which influence voters in a regular election. Rather, as eg the Scottish or Brexit referenda demonstrated, it's all about Identity.
On which point, whether "Unionists" vote TUV, DUP, UUP or Alliance etc, or (increasingly) don't vote at all normally, all the evidence suggests thay they will turn out solidly in any referendum to preserve their British identity, if only from "clinging to Nurse, for fear of something worse". For remember, Unionists have only to lose once, for it to be forever. So I have no doubt that there will be a big turnout of the 1m-odd "Unionists" in any referendum, and I am equally confident that very few, if any, would consider voting for a UI.
As for the latter ("whether" they vote ), while I'm confident of the Unionist turnout, I'm not nearly so worried about the Nationalist turnout. Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to the secrecy of the voting booth, those Nationalists who do turn out will so0lidly vote for a UI, rather than remain.
But I genuinely believe that a proportion of Nationalists sufficient to lose the vote for a UI simply will not bother to turn out, since the
status quo means Nationalists can continue to have their "NI cake" while also eating their "UI cake". That is, if staying in NI, they get to keep their more affordable housing, NHS, government jobs/pensions etc. While thanks to the GFA, they would still have their Irish (and EU) identity etc. (Think eg Ciara Mageean, or any number of "Nationalist" boxers competing in both the Commonwealth Games for NI, and in the Europeans for Ireland)
Which explains why when polled, so many "Nationalists", especially the younger ones, now tend to identify themselves as "Northern Irish", rather than "Irish". (Think eg Rory McIlroy, Michael ONeill or any number of young "Nationalist" soccer players who are quite happy to turn out for NI teams.).
Meaning that even if the new census indicates a "Nationalist" majority, I genuinely don't consider that this poses any real threat to the Union in a referendum and why I would actually call SF's bluff, in their regular, but embarrassingly half-hearted, calls for a border poll.
Of course I don't expect many (any?) on this board to agree with my reasoning - some won't even acknowledge it - but if it were within my gift to call a referendum, I'd say: "Bring it on!" 8)
Last I heard there were loads of jobs in the *26 Cos and people get pensions here too.
*A record number at work according to the News today with up to 400,000 of the 2.5m in Public or semi State jobs.
Public health waiting lists are about the same pro rata in the 6 as the 26 - nothing for either area to be proud of.
When the new All Ireland entity comes residents of the 6 Cos will still enjoy the right to either Irish or British (or Anglo Welsh if the majority of Scots realise Independence is nirmal) nationality.
12th July would of course be an All Ireland Bank Holiday and the monument in Crossmaglen will have Arlene Foster, Johnson, Truss added to it.
My sons a teacher in the ROI. Pay and conditions considerably better than up here. This idea that the ROI is a worse country to live in than this artificial statelet that is being kept going through an unsustainable reliance on an inflated public sector is just absolute nonsense. A UI is going to come, sooner rather than later and if Unionists had any sense they'd be negotiating now, while they've got some degree of strength rather that after they've lost a referendum and have no bargaining tools
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 25, 2022, 04:06:18 PM
As we're going to find out shortly there is neither a majority of unionists or nationalists, soft or otherwise in NI/6 counties with that trend only going in the one direction based on the age profiles of said groupings.
Unionist's hugging the east coast are oblivious to the growth in the Nationalist population around them.
Ah, I see, you're another of those Nationalists who are now into their second "Century of Wishful Thinking"!
Lets get down to basics. It doesnt matter how you count the two tribes in a census - Prods, Unioniosts, Loyalists etc or RCs, Nats, Republicans etc.
Rather its about two things, how and whether they would vote in a Referendum.
And for the former ("how"), it's not about designation, policies, economics, personalities and tactical voting etc, i.e. the usual things which influence voters in a regular election. Rather, as eg the Scottish or Brexit referenda demonstrated, it's all about Identity.
On which point, whether "Unionists" vote TUV, DUP, UUP or Alliance etc, or (increasingly) don't vote at all normally, all the evidence suggests thay they will turn out solidly in any referendum to preserve their British identity, if only from "clinging to Nurse, for fear of something worse". For remember, Unionists have only to lose once, for it to be forever. So I have no doubt that there will be a big turnout of the 1m-odd "Unionists" in any referendum, and I am equally confident that very few, if any, would consider voting for a UI.
As for the latter ("whether" they vote ), while I'm confident of the Unionist turnout, I'm not nearly so worried about the Nationalist turnout. Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to the secrecy of the voting booth, those Nationalists who do turn out will so0lidly vote for a UI, rather than remain.
But I genuinely believe that a proportion of Nationalists sufficient to lose the vote for a UI simply will not bother to turn out, since the status quo means Nationalists can continue to have their "NI cake" while also eating their "UI cake". That is, if staying in NI, they get to keep their more affordable housing, NHS, government jobs/pensions etc. While thanks to the GFA, they would still have their Irish (and EU) identity etc. (Think eg Ciara Mageean, or any number of "Nationalist" boxers competing in both the Commonwealth Games for NI, and in the Europeans for Ireland)
Which explains why when polled, so many "Nationalists", especially the younger ones, now tend to identify themselves as "Northern Irish", rather than "Irish". (Think eg Rory McIlroy, Michael ONeill or any number of young "Nationalist" soccer players who are quite happy to turn out for NI teams.).
Meaning that even if the new census indicates a "Nationalist" majority, I genuinely don't consider that this poses any real threat to the Union in a referendum and why I would actually call SF's bluff, in their regular, but embarrassingly half-hearted, calls for a border poll.
Of course I don't expect many (any?) on this board to agree with my reasoning - some won't even acknowledge it - but if it were within my gift to call a referendum, I'd say: "Bring it on!" 8)
Some of what you write I would say is wrong but a referendum wouldn't be won now or for a while because there is no great plan. It will be won in the future but in my view quite a while into the future. Michael O'Neill probably wouldn't vote the way you think he would and likewise for a lot of ones in the NI team. That kind of thing I would imagine, like the athletics, is a career thing.
Unfortunately the union isn't going away any time soon but the DUP have expedited the talk of the death of it by many many years. The biggest asset to nationalism here is the DUP.
TLDR: Unionists who consider voting for a UI are no longer Unionists but Nationalists (who want to have their NI cake AND UI cake) won't bother voting but will remain Nationalists.
Quote from: screenexile on August 25, 2022, 04:12:34 PM
It is true that there will be a swathe of Unionists who if presented with the right case for a UI may well abandon their Unionist principles...
Sorry, but it not "true" as in established fact, rather it is your opinion.
And while I'm not sure how many constitute a swathe", in my direct experience of that community, they are very few indeed.
Further, it is my opinion - backed up consistently by polling - that however many of these persuadable Unionists there are, they are outnumbered by the "swathe" of Nationalists who would not bother to vote, or might even vote to remain ("cake and eat it").
Moreover, as I've tried to argue, for Unionists it's not even a question of "principles", but of Identity. And I really cannot see many Unionists abandoning that identity lightly.
In fact, if a Yes vote to leave the UK could even remotely risk entering a united Ireland where SF could be the largest single party, then I don't think
any would take that chance.
(And if people on this forum have a problem with understanding that last point, just remember that your average Unionist holds SF in the same regard as your average Nationalist holds the DUP.)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 25, 2022, 04:29:46 PM
Yes soft unionists is probably wrong, a protestant voter who wouldn't vote for UUP/DUP/TUV is probably best..
People vote - or don't vote - in regular elections for a whole host of reasons. But that is very different from a Referendum likw this.
Look at Scotland, for instance. At the time of their vote, the SNP was riding high as the biggest party in the country, indeed the party of government. Yet the referendum was lost, since even some people who voted SNP for a variety of reasons could not all be relied on to come out and vote "Yes".
While if you look at the Brexit referendum, many people in constituencies with strong Labour or LibDem representatiion (i.e. Remain parties) , came out to vote Leave. Indeed, there were people who had never voted in an ordinary election who came out to vote, with a majority of them for Leave, which swung the vote.
I personally have little doubt that very many "Garden Centre Unionists" would make the effort to get out and vote in a Referendum, especially if they see SF stoking up the rhetoric on the other side. Ditto Alliance Party voters in predominantly Unionist* areas.
* - That is, 90% of them. ;)
You should tell all of this to some of your politicians who are being led by the hand by loyalists when it comes to the protocol. They don't want the 'other group' in the middle who might be persuaded either way to have a 'NI cake' and a 'UI cake'. They want the full fat Brexit cake complete with all of the warts.
You personally might welcome a border poll but for the vast majority of unionists it's fingers in the ear time and they won't even countenance mature debate on the issue.
Like I've said I don't see any result in a referendum being anything other than the status quo, I can't see it in my life time..
I've mentioned the Scottish one before and if held again I don't see that changing either..
Where I live though doesn't change your identity, if there is a push (fronted by SF) it will be defeated well enough imo
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
[EG is] overselling it. And by more than a little.
Firstly, the unionists that we'd be talking about are more than likely the Alliance voting type, whose unionist identity, whilst definitely relevant, is well down the pecking order in terms of things they hold dear.
On the contrary, Unionist voters who vote Alliance are just as likely to be entirely comfortable with their British identity as those who vote for overtly Unionsit parties, since they aren't "spooked" by the AP's efforts to ride both constitutional horses at once.
Or they are actively turned off by Unionist politicians, but living in predominantly Unionist areas, as the great majority do, means that they aren't persuaded to vote for an overtly Unionist party in order to keep SF/SDLP out.
Meaning that if you're looking to Allaince voters from a Unionist background/area to vote for a UI, then imo you're clutching at straws. And I say that as a (proudly British) Unionist who has never given the DUP so much as a 10th preference, but has voted Alliance, amongst others.
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
Secondly, to say they'd have to "abandon" their British identity in a UI is nonsense. There are many nationalists currently living in the UK who have not abandoned anything. If anything, confidence in their identity has only grown in the past couple of decades. I'd suggest that any unionist who feels the need to abandon their identity in a hypothetical UI, wasn't that bothered about their identity to start with
How can you continue to be British and a Unionist, in a United Ireland i.e somewhere which is neither British nor part of the Union?
Were we ever to have a UI, then the game would be up for Unionism. And considering how that British/Unionist identity has resisted eg countless rebellions, Partition, decades of severe civil strife, two world wars and the rise of the Celtic Tiger etc, over hundreds of years, what makes you think they're any less attached to their history andi dentity than, say, Irish nationalists, who have also faced all those challenges from the other side of the fence?
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
And finally, with regard to his assertion that nationalists need to offer "reasons to join a UI" – there is some truth in this. But with the current behaviour of the DUP over here and the British govt pumping turds into rivers and displaying ever more fascist, inward-looking and corrupt behaviours, the reasons offered to get the fcuk out of this mess don't need to be particularly compelling
Hang on.
Those examples of (negative) behaviour by the Brits/DUP etc are not the same as the (positive) inducements from Irish Nationalism needed to persuade Ulster Unionists to abandon their dearly held identity and throw their lot in with a UI.
Instead Unionists will just roll their eyes at the former, while still waiting for the latter, in the same way as Nationalists roll their eyes when their own representatives act the maggot, while ignoring the need to come up with the latter.
As you appear to do.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
Last I heard there were loads of jobs in the *26 Cos and people get pensions here too.
*A record number at work according to the News today with up to 400,000 of the 2.5m in Public or semi State jobs.
Public health waiting lists are about the same pro rata in the 6 as the 26 - nothing for either area to be proud of.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
My sons a teacher in the ROI. Pay and conditions considerably better than up here. This idea that the ROI is a worse country to live in than this artificial statelet that is being kept going through an unsustainable reliance on an inflated public sector is just absolute nonsense.
Nowhere have I denied the clear economic advantages which ROI has over NI. Rather my point was that if you're eg a middle class Nationalist in your 40's, with a secure Government/public sector job with indexed pension to match, (and maybe your spouse the same), 15 years still to go on your mortgage and a couple of kids soon to go to University etc, are you really going to risk all that for a UI which at best would struggle to subsidise the 6 counties and at worst could provoke another civil war?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
When the new All Ireland entity comes residents of the 6 Cos will still enjoy the right to either Irish or British (or Anglo Welsh if the majority of Scots realise Independence is nirmal) nationality.
12th July would of course be an All Ireland Bank Holiday and the monument in Crossmaglen will have Arlene Foster, Johnson, Truss added to it.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
A UI is going to come, sooner rather than later and if Unionists had any sense they'd be negotiating now, while they've got some degree of strength rather that after they've lost a referendum and have no bargaining tools
Re your
bold, there is no sign even of a referendum, never mind a 'Yes' vote, no matter how much you wish for it. Which is just another reason why Unionists don't have to worry about it.
And as I think I've mentioned on here before, it's not just me who says that, but the likes of Professor Brendan O'Leary, a noted psephologist who has worked for both the British Labour Party and SF, no less. Indeed a few years back he disclosed that with the Nationalist vote in NI having plateaued at around the 42% mark at the beginning of the centrury, he could perceive no prospect of a United Ireland in the foreseeable future. Consequently while he characterised a UI as "desirable", he thought it by no means "inevitable".
The amusing thing being that he made this disclosure from the platform of a SF fundraiser in New York, much to the discomforture of the assembled company, including one Gerry Adams!
Of course the party's clean-up squad immediately sprung into action to remove all evidence of same, but not before (I think) an Irish Times reporter in attendance had taken notes! :)
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html (https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html)
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 25, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
... a referendum wouldn't be won now or for a while because there is no great plan.
Why is there no great plan? I mean, Irish Nationalism has had 100 years to come up with one*, yet there is none in sight.
Or maybe you're waiting for Unionism to come up with one for you? :)
* - Unless you consider the IRA's (failed/abandoned) attempts to bomb us into a UI somehow consitituted a "plan"....
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 25, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
Unfortunately the union isn't going away any time soon but the DUP have expedited the talk of the death of it by many many years. The biggest asset to nationalism here is the DUP.
No doubt.Fortunately we've got an antidote.
https://www.sinnfein.ie/ (https://www.sinnfein.ie/)
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 11:05:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
[EG is] overselling it. And by more than a little.
Firstly, the unionists that we'd be talking about are more than likely the Alliance voting type, whose unionist identity, whilst definitely relevant, is well down the pecking order in terms of things they hold dear.
On the contrary, Unionist voters who vote Alliance are just as likely to be entirely comfortable with their British identity as those who vote for overtly Unionsit parties, since they aren't "spooked" by the AP's efforts to ride both constitutional horses at once.
Or they are actively turned off by Unionist politicians, but living in predominantly Unionist areas, as the great majority do, means that they aren't persuaded to vote for an overtly Unionist party in order to keep SF/SDLP out.
Meaning that if you're looking to Allaince voters from a Unionist background/area to vote for a UI, then imo you're clutching at straws. And I say that as a (proudly British) Unionist who has never given the DUP so much as a 10th preference, but has voted Alliance, amongst others.
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
Secondly, to say they'd have to "abandon" their British identity in a UI is nonsense. There are many nationalists currently living in the UK who have not abandoned anything. If anything, confidence in their identity has only grown in the past couple of decades. I'd suggest that any unionist who feels the need to abandon their identity in a hypothetical UI, wasn't that bothered about their identity to start with
How can you continue to be British and a Unionist, in a United Ireland i.e somewhere which is neither British nor part of the Union?
Were we ever to have a UI, then the game would be up for Unionism. And considering how that British/Unionist identity has resisted eg countless rebellions, Partition, decades of severe civil strife, two world wars and the rise of the Celtic Tiger etc, over hundreds of years, what makes you think they're any less attached to their history andi dentity than, say, Irish nationalists, who have also faced all those challenges from the other side of the fence?
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
And finally, with regard to his assertion that nationalists need to offer "reasons to join a UI" – there is some truth in this. But with the current behaviour of the DUP over here and the British govt pumping turds into rivers and displaying ever more fascist, inward-looking and corrupt behaviours, the reasons offered to get the fcuk out of this mess don't need to be particularly compelling
Hang on.
Those examples of (negative) behaviour by the Brits/DUP etc are not the same as the (positive) inducements from Irish Nationalism needed to persuade Ulster Unionists to abandon their dearly held identity and throw their lot in with a UI.
Instead Unionists will just roll their eyes at the former, while still waiting for the latter, in the same way as Nationalists roll their eyes when their own representatives act the maggot, while ignoring the need to come up with the latter.
As you appear to do.
1. With all due respect, someone like yourself is not among the target audience for this EG. You may have thrown an odd vote Alliance's way when it didn't really matter, but in your own words, you are "proudly British". I know from direct experience that there are plenty of Unionists who are most definitely not "proudly British" at the moment. And the behaviour of their so called leaders means that this cohort grows by the day.
2. You can't continue to be unionist. Like you say, the game is up. But you said that people would have to give up their British identity. That would certainly not be the case. (Unless of course, they wanted to...)
3. I'm not sure you get it. The masterclass in self-harm that the UK Gov't (and it's DUP lapdogs) have been engaged in for the past decade is creating these inducements faster than nationalists can point them out! The ace in the pack for remaining part of the UK is the NHS. These lunatics would have it sold off quicker than you could dial 999.
Anyway, that all said, I'll indulge you with some "inducements" Currently, Ireland betters the UK in the following areas;
Life Expectancy
GDP/capita
Social security (welfare) support
Infant Mortality rates
National debt levels (currently running a slight budget surplus)
Current economic growth rate
% risk of poverty
Industrial productivity/capita
Murder rate
Now this is far from an exhaustive list. And it's for the UK as a whole. You can imagine how the figures for the North might compare. ;D But, as stated earlier, people like yourself don't care - as, by your own admission, the fleg is what it's all about for you.
No amount of inducements will convince you and those like you... but that doesn't matter.
Don't see how a border poll can be denied once nationalist vote exceeds unionist vote. That may be 42% to 41% with another 17% or so designated other. But Alliance transfers went more nationalist than unionist so it would be against spirt of GFA if a border poll was denied when nationalist surpasses unionist. That could happen very soon forcing both London and Dublin's hand. The criteria was never outlined but nationalist vote surpassing unionist should be a straightforward reason. I would have also thought the recent Sunday Times Poll that has unity at 52% and UK at 44% if held in 15 years another strong indicator that those planning to vote UI in a future poll is stronger than those planning to maintain Union. The fact that several recent polls have put Union below 50% when people know what living in UK is like also shows a worrying decline if you are a Unionist.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
Last I heard there were loads of jobs in the *26 Cos and people get pensions here too.
*A record number at work according to the News today with up to 400,000 of the 2.5m in Public or semi State jobs.
Public health waiting lists are about the same pro rata in the 6 as the 26 - nothing for either area to be proud of.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
My sons a teacher in the ROI. Pay and conditions considerably better than up here. This idea that the ROI is a worse country to live in than this artificial statelet that is being kept going through an unsustainable reliance on an inflated public sector is just absolute nonsense.
Nowhere have I denied the clear economic advantages which ROI has over NI. Rather my point was that if you're eg a middle class Nationalist in your 40's, with a secure Government/public sector job with indexed pension to match, (and maybe your spouse the same), 15 years still to go on your mortgage and a couple of kids soon to go to University etc, are you really going to risk all that for a UI which at best would struggle to subsidise the 6 counties and at worst could provoke another civil war?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
When the new All Ireland entity comes residents of the 6 Cos will still enjoy the right to either Irish or British (or Anglo Welsh if the majority of Scots realise Independence is nirmal) nationality.
12th July would of course be an All Ireland Bank Holiday and the monument in Crossmaglen will have Arlene Foster, Johnson, Truss added to it.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
A UI is going to come, sooner rather than later and if Unionists had any sense they'd be negotiating now, while they've got some degree of strength rather that after they've lost a referendum and have no bargaining tools
Re your bold, there is no sign even of a referendum, never mind a 'Yes' vote, no matter how much you wish for it. Which is just another reason why Unionists don't have to worry about it.
And as I think I've mentioned on here before, it's not just me who says that, but the likes of Professor Brendan O'Leary, a noted psephologist who has worked for both the British Labour Party and SF, no less. Indeed a few years back he disclosed that with the Nationalist vote in NI having plateaued at around the 42% mark at the beginning of the centrury, he could perceive no prospect of a United Ireland in the foreseeable future. Consequently while he characterised a UI as "desirable", he thought it by no means "inevitable".
The amusing thing being that he made this disclosure from the platform of a SF fundraiser in New York, much to the discomforture of the assembled company, including one Gerry Adams!
Of course the party's clean-up squad immediately sprung into action to remove all evidence of same, but not before (I think) an Irish Times reporter in attendance had taken notes! :)
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html (https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html)
;D hard to know what way these 6 people would vote
Quote from: yellowcard on August 25, 2022, 10:35:31 PM
You should tell all of this to some of your politicians who are being led by the hand by loyalists when it comes to the protocol. They don't want the 'other group' in the middle who might be persuaded either way to have a 'NI cake' and a 'UI cake'. They want the full fat Brexit cake complete with all of the warts.
Whether you're a Unionist who rages at the Protocol, or supports it, or merely despairs at the whole fiasco, it isn't going to change how you will vote in a referendum.
For as I keep saying, it is about Identity, not Issues.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 25, 2022, 10:35:31 PM
You personally might welcome a border poll but for the vast majority of unionists it's fingers in the ear time and they won't even countenance mature debate on the issue.
Whether they want to countenance a poll or not is not relevant, the point being that they won't have to.
After all it must be for Nationalists to demonstrate why there should be one, yet they're not even campaigning for it.
And I don't consider eg the usual desultory and ritualised calls by SF at some tired old Republican commemoration to constitute a "plan", never mind a "campaign".
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 26, 2022, 12:11:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 25, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
... a referendum wouldn't be won now or for a while because there is no great plan.
Why is there no great plan? I mean, Irish Nationalism has had 100 years to come up with one*, yet there is none in sight.
Or maybe you're waiting for Unionism to come up with one for you? :)
* - Unless you consider the IRA's (failed/abandoned) attempts to bomb us into a UI somehow consitituted a "plan"....
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 25, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
Unfortunately the union isn't going away any time soon but the DUP have expedited the talk of the death of it by many many years. The biggest asset to nationalism here is the DUP.
No doubt.
Fortunately we've got an antidote.
https://www.sinnfein.ie/ (https://www.sinnfein.ie/)
The harm the DUP and the tories are doing to the "union" outweighs anything SF are doing on the other side by a good bit tbh despite every little thing SF do being called out and magnified to the nth degree.
It won't happen any time soon and tbh I think SF know it'd be wrong to call a border poll now. You talk about plans. Plans can happen.
The UK is a basket case and gets more and more so by the day. The longer the tories rule the more that is the case. That will sway small n nationalists and small u unionists.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 26, 2022, 12:11:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 25, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
... a referendum wouldn't be won now or for a while because there is no great plan.
Why is there no great plan? I mean, Irish Nationalism has had 100 years to come up with one*, yet there is none in sight.
This is often an argument against it, people North and South say we need to learn the lessons of brexit but how can you come up with a plan if half the assembly won't engage. Can you see the DUP or even UUP sitting down to discuss an all ireland health service, or education or policing. No chance. The will of the people will have to force their hand and that vote will need to pass with limited planning. How do you plan for something as big as unification anyway, even if you had engagement from all sides some things just won't be known in detail until it happens and then any issues are worked through.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 06:57:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 25, 2022, 04:06:18 PM
As we're going to find out shortly there is neither a majority of unionists or nationalists, soft or otherwise in NI/6 counties with that trend only going in the one direction based on the age profiles of said groupings.
Unionist's hugging the east coast are oblivious to the growth in the Nationalist population around them.
Ah, I see, you're another of those Nationalists who are now into their second "Century of Wishful Thinking"!
Lets get down to basics. It doesnt matter how you count the two tribes in a census - Prods, Unioniosts, Loyalists etc or RCs, Nats, Republicans etc.
Rather its about two things, how and whether they would vote in a Referendum.
And for the former ("how"), it's not about designation, policies, economics, personalities and tactical voting etc, i.e. the usual things which influence voters in a regular election. Rather, as eg the Scottish or Brexit referenda demonstrated, it's all about Identity.
On which point, whether "Unionists" vote TUV, DUP, UUP or Alliance etc, or (increasingly) don't vote at all normally, all the evidence suggests thay they will turn out solidly in any referendum to preserve their British identity, if only from "clinging to Nurse, for fear of something worse". For remember, Unionists have only to lose once, for it to be forever. So I have no doubt that there will be a big turnout of the 1m-odd "Unionists" in any referendum, and I am equally confident that very few, if any, would consider voting for a UI.
As for the latter ("whether" they vote ), while I'm confident of the Unionist turnout, I'm not nearly so worried about the Nationalist turnout. Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to the secrecy of the voting booth, those Nationalists who do turn out will so0lidly vote for a UI, rather than remain.
But I genuinely believe that a proportion of Nationalists sufficient to lose the vote for a UI simply will not bother to turn out, since the status quo means Nationalists can continue to have their "NI cake" while also eating their "UI cake". That is, if staying in NI, they get to keep their more affordable housing, NHS, government jobs/pensions etc. While thanks to the GFA, they would still have their Irish (and EU) identity etc. (Think eg Ciara Mageean, or any number of "Nationalist" boxers competing in both the Commonwealth Games for NI, and in the Europeans for Ireland)
Which explains why when polled, so many "Nationalists", especially the younger ones, now tend to identify themselves as "Northern Irish", rather than "Irish". (Think eg Rory McIlroy, Michael ONeill or any number of young "Nationalist" soccer players who are quite happy to turn out for NI teams.).
Meaning that even if the new census indicates a "Nationalist" majority, I genuinely don't consider that this poses any real threat to the Union in a referendum and why I would actually call SF's bluff, in their regular, but embarrassingly half-hearted, calls for a border poll.
Of course I don't expect many (any?) on this board to agree with my reasoning - some won't even acknowledge it - but if it were within my gift to call a referendum, I'd say: "Bring it on!" 8)
Identity is the overriding factor for the unionist and nationalist camps, no doubt about it, but as we're going to find out in the census that neither are over the 50% mark, so what you are left with is the pragmatic middle 10 to 15% who have decided not to align themselves with either camp and there is where the winning and losing of a UI will be.
Clinging to the status quo was a major issue for the SNP, plus people believing the lies of the Torys in London, that ship has sailed to an extent.
Lots being made here about the great NHS, not having to pay at the point of service for a GP and the likes, but you know what, the NHS here is on it's knees and anyone who can afford it are taking out private medical insurance anyway so would they notice any real difference in a UI?? Probably not.
Education and the economy are probably stronger down South, well the economy is for sure.
As for the Alliance vote and how that may split come the time, but look at the areas where they are strongest, mostly traditional unionist areas, Strangford, North Down, East Belfast, South Belfast etc etc. Basic perceptions are that these votes are disenfranchised unionists voting for them but I'd also suggest that these areas are now seeing growth in nationalists moving into them and voting tactically, that's what's certainly happening in Strangford.
Strange that you think that all unionists will vote to save the union but not all nationalists will vote for a UI as they want their cake and eat it.
With Brexit and the DUP/Tories pushing hard to fúck up that very cake and if they succeed then expect that vote to harden and maybe persuade the Alliance/small u voters who want bread on their tables to change tack...
Unionism will then play it's trump card, the subvention from London, £8B per year or the likes as if it's something to be proud of, that we're such a basket case we need handouts...
The status quo has gone. Brexit has made sure of that. Even now the shortsightedness of Unionists in not embracing the protocol is unreal. Without Brexit I'd have agreed that an AI was at least a lifetime away. Now I don't think so. I've spoken with Businessmen who have been from a unionist who without the protocol may see their livelihoods go under. They don't need the secrecy of the ballot box, they have stated quite openly how this has impacted their view of the union. EG's flawed viewpoint is that all "unionists" (or people who would have traditionally voted unionist) would would still vote for the Union, while also thinking that not all nationalists will vote for a UI. The reality is that there will be pockets of both sides who will either abstain or vote against their usual direction due to financial reasons brought about by Brexit.
Even at this late stage I can't believe Unionists aren't doing all in their power to embrace the protocol. The writing was on the wall and it's giving them a chance to allow NI to prosper, their only hope in sustaining NI long term. Because as we know money talks loudly around here.
At the British Army's 'Palace Barracks' in Holywood, Co. Down, a memorial stone was erected this week to Dennis Hutchings, the retired British Soldier who was on trial for the shooting of John Pat Cunningham in County Tyrone in June 1974. John Pat was mentally disabled and was deemed to have the mind of a seven year old child. He was shot in the back. Hutching refused to cooperate with the RUC in the immediate aftermath. This memorial garden is one reserved for soldiers who were killed on duty. Hutching died of natural causes. As a statement yesterday from the Cunningham family pointed out:
"The only three plausible scenarios regarding the murder of John Pat all involve criminal behaviour by Hutchings. 1) He shot John Pat in the back and was guilty of murder. 2) A soldier under his command in in his presence murdered John Pat and Hutchings withheld this evidence from the RUC and more recently from the PSNI. or, 3) realising after the trial had started that he had offered no defence in interviews, he falsely accused a dead colleague who could no longer defend himself. ALL THREE SCENARIOS INVOLVE CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR"
Makes you wonder why, in a garden exclusively for memorials to soldiers who were killed on duty, an exception was made for one who died of natural causes whilst on trial for murdering an innocent Irish Catholic.
More so, it makes you reflect on the outrage from so many about Republicans singing rebel songs. Many on this thread talked about the offence the songs may have caused. If you think those claiming they were offended were being honest, then consider their silence on this memorial and reflect on whether their offence, and their claim to be concerned for victims, was genuine or not.
(https://belfastmedia.com/uploads/article/2022/8/15330/Hutchings_Memorial_Stone_.jpeg?t=1661432726)
Will be flooded with memorial stones from all sides now!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 10:58:44 AM
Will be flooded with memorial stones from all sides now!!
Totally
Flags and stuff generally don't bother me - it is just part of where we live but those paratrooper flags and that memorial too really irk me if I'm honest. The para flag is flown by people being completely antagonistically and it is two fingers up to people who have had innocent members of their family killed by the state. This memorial is also needless and completely antagonistic - it sets back bloody sunday stuff by a long way too. Other soldiers were not getting that so why this guy. It's two fingers up to victims and families of these things. It is one thing for a random joe to fly a para flag from their house but this memorial is again a state thing and they are again putting two fingers up here.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:45:43 AM
At the British Army's 'Palace Barracks' in Holywood, Co. Down, a memorial stone was erected this week to Dennis Hutchings, the retired British Soldier who was on trial for the shooting of John Pat Cunningham in County Tyrone in June 1974. John Pat was mentally disabled and was deemed to have the mind of a seven year old child. He was shot in the back. Hutching refused to cooperate with the RUC in the immediate aftermath. This memorial garden is one reserved for soldiers who were killed on duty. Hutching died of natural causes. As a statement yesterday from the Cunningham family pointed out:
"The only three plausible scenarios regarding the murder of John Pat all involve criminal behaviour by Hutchings. 1) He shot John Pat in the back and was guilty of murder. 2) A soldier under his command in in his presence murdered John Pat and Hutchings withheld this evidence from the RUC and more recently from the PSNI. or, 3) realising after the trial had started that he had offered no defence in interviews, he falsely accused a dead colleague who could no longer defend himself. ALL THREE SCENARIOS INVOLVE CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR"
Makes you wonder why, in a garden exclusively for memorials to soldiers who were killed on duty, an exception was made for one who died of natural causes whilst on trial for murdering an innocent Irish Catholic.
More so, it makes you reflect on the outrage from so many about Republicans singing rebel songs. Many on this thread talked about the offence the songs may have caused. If you think those claiming they were offended were being honest, then consider their silence on this memorial and reflect on whether their offence, and their claim to be concerned for victims, was genuine or not.
(https://belfastmedia.com/uploads/article/2022/8/15330/Hutchings_Memorial_Stone_.jpeg?t=1661432726)
Former soldier on Twitter saying he found this strange as only those who died in active service in The North got these memorials on the barracks site.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on August 26, 2022, 11:28:44 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 10:45:43 AM
At the British Army's 'Palace Barracks' in Holywood, Co. Down, a memorial stone was erected this week to Dennis Hutchings, the retired British Soldier who was on trial for the shooting of John Pat Cunningham in County Tyrone in June 1974. John Pat was mentally disabled and was deemed to have the mind of a seven year old child. He was shot in the back. Hutching refused to cooperate with the RUC in the immediate aftermath. This memorial garden is one reserved for soldiers who were killed on duty. Hutching died of natural causes. As a statement yesterday from the Cunningham family pointed out:
"The only three plausible scenarios regarding the murder of John Pat all involve criminal behaviour by Hutchings. 1) He shot John Pat in the back and was guilty of murder. 2) A soldier under his command in in his presence murdered John Pat and Hutchings withheld this evidence from the RUC and more recently from the PSNI. or, 3) realising after the trial had started that he had offered no defence in interviews, he falsely accused a dead colleague who could no longer defend himself. ALL THREE SCENARIOS INVOLVE CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR"
Makes you wonder why, in a garden exclusively for memorials to soldiers who were killed on duty, an exception was made for one who died of natural causes whilst on trial for murdering an innocent Irish Catholic.
More so, it makes you reflect on the outrage from so many about Republicans singing rebel songs. Many on this thread talked about the offence the songs may have caused. If you think those claiming they were offended were being honest, then consider their silence on this memorial and reflect on whether their offence, and their claim to be concerned for victims, was genuine or not.
(https://belfastmedia.com/uploads/article/2022/8/15330/Hutchings_Memorial_Stone_.jpeg?t=1661432726)
Former soldier on Twitter saying he found this strange as only those who died in active service in The North got these memorials on the barracks site.
But the Ra have boys who died in prison on roll of honor-blah, blah, blah
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Was this not placed in Stormont before being removed? The message is clear. This is what we do, we don't try and mend our differences we prefer to drive division..
My hope is the kids will find work in other countries and we can leave and join them there
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 12:30:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Was this not placed in Stormont before being removed? The message is clear. This is what we do, we don't try and mend our differences we prefer to drive division..
My hope is the kids will find work in other countries and we can leave and join them there
Would you not take the hint in the first place if they want to leave? ;D ;D
Quote from: johnnycool on August 26, 2022, 12:42:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 12:30:40 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Was this not placed in Stormont before being removed? The message is clear. This is what we do, we don't try and mend our differences we prefer to drive division..
My hope is the kids will find work in other countries and we can leave and join them there
Would you not take the hint in the first place if they want to leave? ;D ;D
I've invested a lot of money in them and will be looking payback lol!!
I would have encouraged my kids to find work here, bring your family up around us but seriously, its getting worse with the siege mentality and while we are not in the troubles you would have thought kids would cop on, but no. Seems its good 'business' to keep stoking the fires
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Absolutely, it's 100% a "f**k you". From who though is the real question. Can't imagine it was the family.
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Absolutely, it's 100% a "f**k you". From who though is the real question. Can't imagine it was the family.
His friends in NI? WTF
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Absolutely, it's 100% a "f**k you". From who though is the real question. Can't imagine it was the family.
His friends in NI? WTF
What friends?! I didn't see any unionist politicians at the unveiling. Who's been the driving force behind it?
Yes you have the exact questions I have. It's actually pretty sinister when you think about it. Very possibly the likes of that guy Mercer? or some of those Tory kinds. It's absolutely needless and I am surprised there isn't way more about it because it's horrendous.
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:33:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Absolutely, it's 100% a "f**k you". From who though is the real question. Can't imagine it was the family.
His friends in NI? WTF
What friends?! I didn't see any unionist politicians at the unveiling. Who's been the driving force behind it?
The Newsletter carried an article about the unveiling. It was attended by around 40 people including family members and ex-RUC members/British Soldiers. Incidentally, while The Newsletter found the time to contact John Ross, a former member of the Parachute Regiment to tell them how fitting a tribute the stone was to Hutchings, they did not find time to contact the Cunningham family to ask them their thoughts.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 01:39:02 PM
Yes you have the exact questions I have. It's actually pretty sinister when you think about it. Very possibly the likes of that guy Mercer? or some of those Tory kinds. It's absolutely needless and I am surprised there isn't way more about it because it's horrendous.
Mercer nothing to do with it I don't think. Otherwise would be all over his social media.
Surely someone local who's prime motivation is "stick it to those fenian bastards". As pointed out, very unusual to be driven from within Army or MOD given he didn't die in combat.
Quote from: Snapchap on August 26, 2022, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:33:13 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 26, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 26, 2022, 01:15:15 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 26, 2022, 12:16:57 PM
Read an interesting thread on it on twitter which I can't find now... It is an awful act this. Absolutely needless and blatantly a statement.
Absolutely, it's 100% a "f**k you". From who though is the real question. Can't imagine it was the family.
His friends in NI? WTF
What friends?! I didn't see any unionist politicians at the unveiling. Who's been the driving force behind it?
The Newsletter carried an article about the unveiling. It was attended by around 40 people including family members and ex-RUC members/British Soldiers. Incidentally, while The Newsletter found the time to contact John Ross, a former member of the Parachute Regiment to tell them how fitting a tribute the stone was to Hutchings, they did not find time to contact the Cunningham family to ask them their thoughts.
Attending the unveiling is one thing, but there's no unveiling without someone pushing for it in the first place.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 11:47:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
Last I heard there were loads of jobs in the *26 Cos and people get pensions here too.
*A record number at work according to the News today with up to 400,000 of the 2.5m in Public or semi State jobs.
Public health waiting lists are about the same pro rata in the 6 as the 26 - nothing for either area to be proud of.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
My sons a teacher in the ROI. Pay and conditions considerably better than up here. This idea that the ROI is a worse country to live in than this artificial statelet that is being kept going through an unsustainable reliance on an inflated public sector is just absolute nonsense.
Nowhere have I denied the clear economic advantages which ROI has over NI. Rather my point was that if you're eg a middle class Nationalist in your 40's, with a secure Government/public sector job with indexed pension to match, (and maybe your spouse the same), 15 years still to go on your mortgage and a couple of kids soon to go to University etc, are you really going to risk all that for a UI which at best would struggle to subsidise the 6 counties and at worst could provoke another civil war?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 25, 2022, 07:09:46 PM
When the new All Ireland entity comes residents of the 6 Cos will still enjoy the right to either Irish or British (or Anglo Welsh if the majority of Scots realise Independence is nirmal) nationality.
12th July would of course be an All Ireland Bank Holiday and the monument in Crossmaglen will have Arlene Foster, Johnson, Truss added to it.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 25, 2022, 07:31:14 PM
A UI is going to come, sooner rather than later and if Unionists had any sense they'd be negotiating now, while they've got some degree of strength rather that after they've lost a referendum and have no bargaining tools
Re your bold, there is no sign even of a referendum, never mind a 'Yes' vote, no matter how much you wish for it. Which is just another reason why Unionists don't have to worry about it.
And as I think I've mentioned on here before, it's not just me who says that, but the likes of Professor Brendan O'Leary, a noted psephologist who has worked for both the British Labour Party and SF, no less. Indeed a few years back he disclosed that with the Nationalist vote in NI having plateaued at around the 42% mark at the beginning of the centrury, he could perceive no prospect of a United Ireland in the foreseeable future. Consequently while he characterised a UI as "desirable", he thought it by no means "inevitable".
The amusing thing being that he made this disclosure from the platform of a SF fundraiser in New York, much to the discomforture of the assembled company, including one Gerry Adams!
Of course the party's clean-up squad immediately sprung into action to remove all evidence of same, but not before (I think) an Irish Times reporter in attendance had taken notes! :)
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html (https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~boleary/website/Welcome.html)
Provoke another civil war?? Who versus who?
Quote from: Evil Genius link=topic=27246.msg2146711#msg2146711 date=
Nowhere have I denied the clear economic advantages which ROI has over NI. Rather my point was that if you're eg a middle class Nationalist in your 40's, with a secure Government/public sector job with indexed pension to match, (and maybe your spouse the same), 15 years still to go on your mortgage and a couple of kids soon to go to University etc, are you really going to risk all that for a UI which at best would struggle to subsidise the 6 counties and at worst could provoke another civil war in actual fact a Unionist?
It really is that simple.
As for the civil war drivel, Jesus wept. Loyalist paramilitaries are little more than criminal gangs and haven't the capabilities (nor state assistance) to embark on anything that would sustain a civil war.
The public employee in the 6 Cos would of course be keeping their job in the new All Ireland entity.
Do Czechs and Slovaks get pensions?
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
The public employee in the 6 Cos would of course be keeping their job in the new All Ireland entity.
Do Czechs and Slovaks get pensions?
Do British citizens resident in Ireland get British state pensions?
Quote from: general_lee on August 27, 2022, 11:30:26 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius link=topic=27246.msg2146711#msg2146711 date=
Nowhere have I denied the clear economic advantages which ROI has over NI. Rather my point was that if you're eg a middle class Nationalist in your 40's, with a secure Government/public sector job with indexed pension to match, (and maybe your spouse the same), 15 years still to go on your mortgage and a couple of kids soon to go to University etc, are you really going to risk all that for a UI which at best would struggle to subsidise the 6 counties and at worst could provoke another civil war in actual fact a Unionist?
It really is that simple.
As for the civil war drivel, Jesus wept. Loyalist paramilitaries are little more than criminal gangs and haven't the capabilities (nor state assistance) to embark on anything that would sustain a civil war.
There would never be a civil war. Unionists are democrats, they've been telling us that for the last 100 years. On this basis I'm content that they'll accept the result of a referendum
Quote from: general_lee on August 27, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
The public employee in the 6 Cos would of course be keeping their job in the new All Ireland entity.
Do Czechs and Slovaks get pensions?
Do British citizens resident in Ireland get British state pensions?
Would it not be determined on where they worked? I think eligibility for state pension is determined by national insurance contributions rather than occupancy but I could be wrong
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 27, 2022, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 27, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
The public employee in the 6 Cos would of course be keeping their job in the new All Ireland entity.
Do Czechs and Slovaks get pensions?
Do British citizens resident in Ireland get British state pensions?
Would it not be determined on where they worked? I think eligibility for state pension is determined by national insurance contributions rather than occupancy but I could be wrong
That's it. I'm entitled to one both sides of the border as I've worked in both
All to do with where you paid PRSI or equivalent and how many contributions.
Fear Bun may only get a percentage of each..... if we haven't an All Ireland State by then.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on August 27, 2022, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 27, 2022, 01:12:39 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 27, 2022, 12:40:21 PM
The public employee in the 6 Cos would of course be keeping their job in the new All Ireland entity.
Do Czechs and Slovaks get pensions?
Do British citizens resident in Ireland get British state pensions?
Would it not be determined on where they worked? I think eligibility for state pension is determined by national insurance contributions rather than occupancy but I could be wrong
It is, you must have 35 years NI contributions I think for full state pension and it's pro rata then when you have less than 35 years. I think 10 years is the minimum you must have to get anything
Quote from: Franko on August 26, 2022, 12:12:37 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 25, 2022, 11:05:41 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
[EG is] overselling it. And by more than a little.
Firstly, the unionists that we'd be talking about are more than likely the Alliance voting type, whose unionist identity, whilst definitely relevant, is well down the pecking order in terms of things they hold dear.
On the contrary, Unionist voters who vote Alliance are just as likely to be entirely comfortable with their British identity as those who vote for overtly Unionsit parties, since they aren't "spooked" by the AP's efforts to ride both constitutional horses at once.
Or they are actively turned off by Unionist politicians, but living in predominantly Unionist areas, as the great majority do, means that they aren't persuaded to vote for an overtly Unionist party in order to keep SF/SDLP out.
Meaning that if you're looking to Allaince voters from a Unionist background/area to vote for a UI, then imo you're clutching at straws. And I say that as a (proudly British) Unionist who has never given the DUP so much as a 10th preference, but has voted Alliance, amongst others.
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
Secondly, to say they'd have to "abandon" their British identity in a UI is nonsense. There are many nationalists currently living in the UK who have not abandoned anything. If anything, confidence in their identity has only grown in the past couple of decades. I'd suggest that any unionist who feels the need to abandon their identity in a hypothetical UI, wasn't that bothered about their identity to start with
How can you continue to be British and a Unionist, in a United Ireland i.e somewhere which is neither British nor part of the Union?
Were we ever to have a UI, then the game would be up for Unionism. And considering how that British/Unionist identity has resisted eg countless rebellions, Partition, decades of severe civil strife, two world wars and the rise of the Celtic Tiger etc, over hundreds of years, what makes you think they're any less attached to their history andi dentity than, say, Irish nationalists, who have also faced all those challenges from the other side of the fence?
Quote from: Franko on August 25, 2022, 04:46:56 PM
And finally, with regard to his assertion that nationalists need to offer "reasons to join a UI" – there is some truth in this. But with the current behaviour of the DUP over here and the British govt pumping turds into rivers and displaying ever more fascist, inward-looking and corrupt behaviours, the reasons offered to get the fcuk out of this mess don't need to be particularly compelling
Hang on.
Those examples of (negative) behaviour by the Brits/DUP etc are not the same as the (positive) inducements from Irish Nationalism needed to persuade Ulster Unionists to abandon their dearly held identity and throw their lot in with a UI.
Instead Unionists will just roll their eyes at the former, while still waiting for the latter, in the same way as Nationalists roll their eyes when their own representatives act the maggot, while ignoring the need to come up with the latter.
As you appear to do.
1. With all due respect, someone like yourself is not among the target audience for this EG. You may have thrown an odd vote Alliance's way when it didn't really matter, but in your own words, you are "proudly British". I know from direct experience that there are plenty of Unionists who are most definitely not "proudly British" at the moment. And the behaviour of their so called leaders means that this cohort grows by the day.
2. You can't continue to be unionist. Like you say, the game is up. But you said that people would have to give up their British identity. That would certainly not be the case. (Unless of course, they wanted to...)
3. I'm not sure you get it. The masterclass in self-harm that the UK Gov't (and it's DUP lapdogs) have been engaged in for the past decade is creating these inducements faster than nationalists can point them out! The ace in the pack for remaining part of the UK is the NHS. These lunatics would have it sold off quicker than you could dial 999.
Anyway, that all said, I'll indulge you with some "inducements" Currently, Ireland betters the UK in the following areas;
Life Expectancy
GDP/capita
Social security (welfare) support
Infant Mortality rates
National debt levels (currently running a slight budget surplus)
Current economic growth rate
% risk of poverty
Industrial productivity/capita
Murder rate
Now this is far from an exhaustive list. And it's for the UK as a whole. You can imagine how the figures for the North might compare. ;D But, as stated earlier, people like yourself don't care - as, by your own admission, the fleg is what it's all about for you.
No amount of inducements will convince you and those like you... but that doesn't matter.
Jimmy Nesbitt certainly doesn't agree with your thesis anyway EG.
"People from the North, of my tradition, would feel that they have their identity, that it is in no way threatened, that they have an equal voice, that they are part of a society that is progressive, inclusive, diverse," Nesbitt said.
"That they have prosperity, that they're not marginalised, and that they can be proud to be from the north of Ireland in a new union of Ireland."
"Among my friends, who are all boys who are Protestants, well, men, we're all 54, they would really consider now what the notion of a new union of Ireland might look like, and I think there's a lot of people that think that."
Ffs, I didn't realise Nesbitt was doing to have to be part of it. Would make me question my desire for unity.
There will soon be no Union to be a part of. Scotland will vote to leave and from there everything will disintegrate. Unionist should be pragmatic and start planning for a settlement that sees them get some concessions.
Paul Brady singing "The Island" on the Late Late
Feile an Phobail take note
Quote from: theskull1 on September 23, 2022, 11:12:53 PM
Paul Brady singing "The Island" on the Late Late
Feile an Phobail take note
Paul Brady played this year's Feile.