Because of the day that is in it, what are people's memories of that dreadful day?
For me:
(1) The anticipation of the match - two great attractive teams at the time was Forest and Liverpool. At the time RTE carried live a semifinal.
I recall Tommy Gaynor from Limerick starting for Forest that day.
(2) Beardsley hitting the bar - I think that was my only memory of the actual time that was played. It seemed to take forever to go from his boot to the crossbar.
(3) The rising death toll - 5 o'clock it was around ten, then 6 pm, up to 20 and so on up into the 60s and 70s. As the numbers went up, the enormity of what had happened deepened.
(4) Pictures on the paper next day - always remember this picture of a woman squeezed up against the fence with her face jammed against the grill. That was the one memory that will be forever imprinted on my brain. At the time we were all told that all English football supporters were animals and all I could think of was she looked like an animal trapped.
For me it was the togetherness of football fans from all over. I took my three daughters to Anfield the next day to pay our respects and we got talking to people from clubs all over the country, every single one of them knew there was something drastically wrong.
We all get very excited about spurious rivalries between football teams....Down hate Armagh....Tyrone hate everybody ;->..Kerry Cork.....soccer rivalries...Utd hate the Scousers...Celts hate the Rangers ...etc...all bulllshit. When it comes down to real life...What happened today is what matters...the 96 got justice.
Quote from: 5 Sams on April 26, 2016, 09:33:50 PM
We all get very excited about spurious rivalries between football teams....Down hate Armagh....Tyrone hate everybody ;->..Kerry Cork.....soccer rivalries...Utd hate the Scousers...Celts hate the Rangers ...etc...all bulllshit. When it comes down to real life...What happened today is what matters...the 96 got justice.
No everyone hates us :). But you are right. The fact that it took 27 years for this verdict is a total disgrace. The British ruling class will stop at nothing to cover up wrong doing by the establishment. I've often wondered if it had happened to a London club would the cover up have happened. After seeing Kelvin McKenzie interviewed today I hope he has a long slow lingering death.
Quote from: reddgnhand on April 26, 2016, 09:46:12 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on April 26, 2016, 09:33:50 PM
We all get very excited about spurious rivalries between football teams....Down hate Armagh....Tyrone hate everybody ;->..Kerry Cork.....soccer rivalries...Utd hate the Scousers...Celts hate the Rangers ...etc...all bulllshit. When it comes down to real life...What happened today is what matters...the 96 got justice.
No everyone hates us :). But you are right. The fact that it took 27 years for this verdict is a total disgrace. The British ruling class will stop at nothing to cover up wrong doing by the establishment. I've often wondered if it had happened to a London club would the cover up have happened. After seeing Kelvin McKenzie interviewed today I hope he has a long slow lingering death.
+1.
My best memory is coming in after being out helping my dad all day, and putting the TV on. John Barnes was on Question of Sport or some other TV show, and a message kept coming up on screen that the show was recorded before today's incident. This was obviously before Internet and 24hr news, so I was wondering what the incident was, and I didn't find out until the news came on later that night.
I was 10 and I remember it vividly.We only had one telly at the time and it was in the kitchen,a small 14inch black diamond tv.
I remember getting dressed up in my full Liverpool kit that morning and counting down the hours until kick off. I was a huge John Aldridge fan and I couldn't wait to see him play. I had been devastated the year before when he missed a penalty v Wimbledon.
I do remember someone hitting the crossbar early on in the game.
When the trouble started I didn't really understand what was happening but I remember running out to my Da who was cutting grass or one of the hedges or something and telling him that there was fighting at the match and they were all coming out onto the pitch.
Was watching myself at home in Sligo. Initially like Laoislad I thought it was trouble and I was pissed off cos I wanted to see the game. Quickly it became clear though that something was seriously wrong. Even to my 13 year old self the lies put forward in the following days didn't tally with what I saw on TV.
I was in the Canal End for a few All Ireland finals in the early to mid 1990's and it was hairy enough at times. Can only imagine what that day with 90000 in the 60's was like.
Quote from: laoislad on April 26, 2016, 10:49:18 PM
I was 10 and I remember it vividly.We only had one telly at the time and it was in the kitchen,a small 14inch black diamond tv.
I remember getting dressed up in my full Liverpool kit that morning and counting down the hours until kick off. I was a huge John Aldridge fan and I couldn't wait to see him play. I had been devastated the year before when he missed a penalty v Wimbledon.
I do remember someone hitting the crossbar early on in the game.
When the trouble started I didn't really understand what was happening but I remember running out to my Da who was cutting grass or one of the hedges or something and telling him that there was fighting at the match and they were all coming out onto the pitch.
I reckon you still do that.
I only remember the aftermath. Didn't see it live. Horrifying though looking back on the footage, even now.
My Granny was a massive Liverpool fan so watched it there. I recall the confusion and Des Lynam. It's all a bit hazy after that as it was so shocking, but I recall how eerie MOTD. The FA Cup Final was very emotional that year and a great match to boot :'(
I was home from college (Easter holidays?) and really looking forward to a good open game.
I think I remember a fan running over to Grobbelaar asking for help but I know I have heard him tell this, so I can't be certain.
I remember initially they thought it was crowd trouble and the Forest fans were booing. But then Liverpool supporters were carrying people on advertising hoarding out of the ground past the Forest supporters, who then started applauding the Liverpool fans. They knew something terrible had happened but that news wasn't filtering through to the commentators.
I remember looking at the line of police horses along the halfway line, to keep the peace between the opposing fans, and thinking that they were missing the point. Safety has to be above everything, including security.
Afterwards I couldn't understand how, if there had been crowd trouble, then why were there no arrests? Because I am certain that those cops would have arrested anyone for hooliganism back then, especially if it was involving the police.
The other thing that struck me as the numbers started to climb, was how few ambulances got onto the pitch.
My memory of the time was not this incident in particular but of generally watching the results coverage on a Saturday afternoon and waiting for reports of crowd violence at whichever game succumbed to the organised violence that week.
English football had to change completely with regard to spectator safety because of the Hillsborough Tragedy. All seater stadiums and segregation of supporters now being the norm.
All these years later, we as GAA fans can still travel to Croke Park and watch our games from the terraces and without segregation from opposing fans.
I think that soccer support in the 1980's regarded the police as the enemy, whereas GAA supporters now and then give the Guards the respect they deserve and work with them to ensure crowd safety.
I mind I had stuff to do for me Da and was bummed that I didnt get to see the start of it.
Switched on the box and was greeted to the now infamous scenes. I was really confused but then even my Ma started to watch I knew something was seriously wrong
It was a steep learning curve in terms of things being more important than sport. It had a big effect on me to take sport at face value and go hell for leather at it but its not the most important thing in the world.
Another steep learning curve was to not listen to everything you hear, from the police to the BBC to the worst ofthe lot... the SUN
I remember Heysel and people making a connection. There was contempt for soccer fans. I don't remember much about the match other than it was abandoned. England was weird in the late 80s. There were a lot of tragedies. The Herald of Free Enterprise, Bradford, Hillsborough etc. The miners strike was earlier . I always had the feeling the police were not on the side of the people. I never felt that about the Gardai when I was growing up.
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 05:57:01 AM
I remember Heysel and people making a connection. There was contempt for soccer fans. I don't remember much about the match other than it was abandoned. England was weird in the late 80s. There were a lot of tragedies. The Herald of Free Enterprise, Bradford, Hillsborough etc. The miners strike was earlier . I always had the feeling the police were not on the side of the people. I never felt that about the Gardai when I was growing up.
I remember nothing about the game but I remember the horror and confusion that was going on, it was awful and initially I believed the official story until I saw supporters being interviewed and they were obviously telling the truth and the powers that be were lying, Thatcher must have a special room in hell for evil scum because from this disaster, to the way she destroyed the NHS, to her handling of the minors to the lies about the Belgrano, to the disgusting way she treated the hunger strikers, to me she is one of the most repugnant women in the history of the world.
The odious toads minions are going to need to answer for the murder of 96 people and they need to spend the rest of their miserable Tory gives in prison.
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 05:57:01 AM
I remember Heysel and people making a connection. There was contempt for soccer fans. I don't remember much about the match other than it was abandoned. England was weird in the late 80s. There were a lot of tragedies. The Herald of Free Enterprise, Bradford, Hillsborough etc. The miners strike was earlier . I always had the feeling the police were not on the side of the people. I never felt that about the Gardai when I was growing up.
I remember nothing about the game but I remember the horror and confusion that was going on, it was awful and initially I believed the official story until I saw supporters being interviewed and they were obviously telling the truth and the powers that be were lying, Thatcher must have a special room in hell for evil scum because from this disaster, to the way she destroyed the NHS, to her handling of the minors to the lies about the Belgrano, to the disgusting way she treated the hunger strikers, to me she is one of the most repugnant women in the history of the world.
The odious toads minions are going to need to answer for the murder of 96 people and they need to spend the rest of their miserable Tory gives in prison.
agree with all you say about the tories and Thatcher. Sadly I cant see anyone seeing the inside of a cell. I was 8 when it happened and remember not fully realising what was going on but eventually that it was something awful
Quote from: JBM on the 21 on April 26, 2016, 07:27:54 PM
Because of the day that is in it, what are people's memories of that dreadful day?
I remember intending to watch the first 15 - 20 minutes of the game before I had to go out. If I recall correctly, the game was on live on RTE2, and Johnny Giles was the co-commentator / summarizer, and in the early minutes of the event, before it became clear just how awful the tragedy would become, he made a remark along the lines of, "I wouldn't want anyone belonging to me to be in there."
I remember it vividly. I was 16 at the time. I was down at a friend's house, and we were watching the game on RTE. I remember the brilliant sunshine, and Beardsley's shot hitting the crossbar. Then the pandemonium, and the obvious fear that it was more hooliganism. The shame of Heysel was still a very fresh and raw thing at that time. The Forest fans booed I remember, because they thought it was 'trouble'. But they quickly stopped as they, and we at home, realised something horrible was going on, and it wasn't crowd trouble. I vividly recall people being carried away on advertising hoardings, others trying desperately to rip down the cages at the Leppings lane end. I remember the huge damburst of people when the police finally opened the pens, and I recall the people reaching down from the top tier, and trying to drag fellow supporters up from below.
Above all this, I remember that horrible photo the next day in the paper, of a girl, probably about 15 or 16, being crushed to death and it was haunting, and still is a horrific memory in my minds eye.
And since that day, any time I have gone to a terrace where I know there's a big crowd (hill 16, the miracle match in Thomond Park, the old Canal End, Semple Stadium, wherever) I always make sure I stand in front of a crush barrier, rather than behind it, and I try to be up the terrace as far as I can. If I have my young lad with me, I make double sure that I have an exit path, and protection from behind if there is a crush. And that whole thought process is because of that one horrible day, 27 years ago, and those horrible images that are burned on my memory.
Sorry for going off track, but IF, and I mean IF there was overcrowding on the Hill in the future, what would happen, there'd be no way the 'patrons' would be allowed on the pitch, despite what could happen. I know that it won't happen again due to Health and Safety, but there were reports that there was overcrowding at last year's first semi between Mayo and Dublin. I did mention reports, so it might not be true.
Home from college for the weekend.
Just me and my ma in the house and as usual she was in the kitchen.
When it became apparent from the images and the commentary that this was not just crowd trouble I called my ma in to watch.
We just sat there in quiet disbelief at what we were witnessing just the two of us. We didn't say a word for ages.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 27, 2016, 10:26:26 AM
Sorry for going off track, but IF, and I mean IF there was overcrowding on the Hill in the future, what would happen, there'd be no way the 'patrons' would be allowed on the pitch, despite what could happen. I know that it won't happen again due to Health and Safety, but there were reports that there was overcrowding at last year's first semi between Mayo and Dublin. I did mention reports, so it might not be true.
I think patrons would be allowed on the pitch if it became a major issue. That's part of the famed Plan B I think.
Quote from: magpie seanie on April 26, 2016, 11:05:59 PM
Was watching myself at home in Sligo. Initially like Laoislad I thought it was trouble and I was pissed off cos I wanted to see the game. Quickly it became clear though that something was seriously wrong. Even to my 13 year old self the lies put forward in the following days didn't tally with what I saw on TV.
I was in the Canal End for a few All Ireland finals in the early to mid 1990's and it was hairy enough at times. Can only imagine what that day with 90000 in the 60's was like.
Indeed. Firmly believe that swift action by the Gardai in letting fans onto the sidelines of the pitch during the 1993 AIF saved another incident.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 27, 2016, 10:26:26 AM
Sorry for going off track, but IF, and I mean IF there was overcrowding on the Hill in the future, what would happen, there'd be no way the 'patrons' would be allowed on the pitch, despite what could happen. I know that it won't happen again due to Health and Safety, but there were reports that there was overcrowding at last year's first semi between Mayo and Dublin. I did mention reports, so it might not be true.
The barriers in the Hill nowadays are way more numerous and look much stronger than certainly the old Canal End in the 1980s.
(http://www.bancrete.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Croke.jpg)
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 05:57:01 AM
I remember Heysel and people making a connection. There was contempt for soccer fans. I don't remember much about the match other than it was abandoned. England was weird in the late 80s. There were a lot of tragedies. The Herald of Free Enterprise, Bradford, Hillsborough etc. The miners strike was earlier . I always had the feeling the police were not on the side of the people. I never felt that about the Gardai when I was growing up.
I remember nothing about the game but I remember the horror and confusion that was going on, it was awful and initially I believed the official story until I saw supporters being interviewed and they were obviously telling the truth and the powers that be were lying, Thatcher must have a special room in hell for evil scum because from this disaster, to the way she destroyed the NHS, to her handling of the minors to the lies about the Belgrano, to the disgusting way she treated the hunger strikers, to me she is one of the most repugnant women in the history of the world.
The odious toads minions are going to need to answer for the murder of 96 people and they need to spend the rest of their miserable Tory gives in prison.
I was thinking of Thatcher as well stew. Odious bitch with pure hatred for working class communities.
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: stew on April 27, 2016, 07:34:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 05:57:01 AM
I remember Heysel and people making a connection. There was contempt for soccer fans. I don't remember much about the match other than it was abandoned. England was weird in the late 80s. There were a lot of tragedies. The Herald of Free Enterprise, Bradford, Hillsborough etc. The miners strike was earlier . I always had the feeling the police were not on the side of the people. I never felt that about the Gardai when I was growing up.
I remember nothing about the game but I remember the horror and confusion that was going on, it was awful and initially I believed the official story until I saw supporters being interviewed and they were obviously telling the truth and the powers that be were lying, Thatcher must have a special room in hell for evil scum because from this disaster, to the way she destroyed the NHS, to her handling of the minors to the lies about the Belgrano, to the disgusting way she treated the hunger strikers, to me she is one of the most repugnant women in the history of the world.
The odious toads minions are going to need to answer for the murder of 96 people and they need to spend the rest of their miserable Tory gives in prison.
I was thinking of Thatcher as well stew. Odious bitch with pure hatred for working class communities.
Thatcher backed the South Yorkshire police to the hilt as she was indebted to them for battering the Coal miners into submission a few years earlier..
There's most definitely a place in hell for her..
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 27, 2016, 08:57:41 AM
Quote from: JBM on the 21 on April 26, 2016, 07:27:54 PM
Because of the day that is in it, what are people's memories of that dreadful day?
For me:
(1) The anticipation of the match - two great attractive teams at the time was Forest and Liverpool. At the time RTE carried live a semifinal.
I recall Tommy Gaynor from Limerick starting for Forest that day.
(2) Beardsley hitting the bar - I think that was my only memory of the actual time that was played. It seemed to take forever to go from his boot to the crossbar.
(3) The rising death toll - 5 o'clock it was around ten, then 6 pm, up to 20 and so on up into the 60s and 70s. As the numbers went up, the enormity of what had happened deepened.
(4) Pictures on the paper next day - always remember this picture of a woman squeezed up against the fence with her face jammed against the grill. That was the one memory that will be forever imprinted on my brain. At the time we were all told that all English football supporters were animals and all I could think of was she looked like an animal trapped.
There's a video on YouTube showing the RTÉ coverage from just before kick-off until just after the referee calls the players off the pitch. The Daily Mirror also ran a double-front page photo showing supporters trapped up against the fence. I'd advise discretion in looking at the video and image of the front page below, particularly the image.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SdGtCWrvlo
http://www.galleonnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2872998856_856c925dfb_z.jpg
dear christ, I haven't looked at that photo in a long long time. Frig. I was 15 at the time. Zero memory of any of the match, but of people , so many people in one area, some eventually spilling onto the pitch to the left of Brucie's goals as the camera was looking, some struggling to get a foothold to get over the fence, some grabbing others in desperation. The 1 ambulance, 1! Advertising boards as make shift stretchers. The eerie mood in school the next day, teachers and pupils alike knowing an unimaginable tradegy had befallen ordinary folk
I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.
If 96 people had died at Twickers it would not have taken 27 years to get to the truth
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:31:36 PM
I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.
very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 27, 2016, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:31:36 PM
I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.
very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?
I think it does a bit. We are used to this from the British, as colonial power we have had bloody Sunday and the like, but to do it to their own is a bit surprising.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 27, 2016, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:31:36 PM
I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.
very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?
I think it does a bit. We are used to this from the British, as colonial power we have had bloody Sunday and the like, but to do it to their own is a bit surprising.
I don't think so.
It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.
If you read the excellent http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Barbados-Ethnic-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870 (http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Barbados-Ethnic-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870) it becomes obvious (to me at least) that they didn't care whether they sent Irish, Scots, Welsh or even English slaves (the latter usually taken from prisons). What they had in common was that those sent to The Caribbean as slaves were all beneath the important people.
To me this is a major theme of Hillsborough.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.
Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.
The story here is not of British establishment protecting itself but the greater issue of how institutions seek to cover up wrongdoing . This has happened in this state , America, the Catholic Church , the republican movement .
The need to protect the institution trumps the truth.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:54:37 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on April 27, 2016, 12:38:39 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 12:31:36 PM
I saw a tweet with a relevant point. When a state can lie about its own citizens for several decades, at an event on live TV with thousands of witnesses, we should all be worried.
very true but does it really surprise anyone how they dealt with it?
I think it does a bit. We are used to this from the British, as colonial power we have had bloody Sunday and the like, but to do it to their own is a bit surprising.
The miners got it as well. The British state will shaft anyone.
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 01:46:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.
Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.
That is precisely the point.
They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.
It is all about class to them.
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 01:46:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.
Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.
That is precisely the point.
They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.
It is all about class to them.
who is they, Muppet? Ordinary English people do not view Irish people as lower class, in my experience
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 02:41:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 02:12:17 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 27, 2016, 01:46:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 01:42:09 PM
It was never about race (anti-Irish etc) with the British. It was always about class.
Not one of your more insightful comments.
The British regard all Irish people as inferior.
That is precisely the point.
They see us as a lower class. Just as they view Scots, Welsh and any other nation as a lower class.
It is all about class to them.
who is they, Muppet? Ordinary English people do not view Irish people as lower class, in my experience
Many do in my experience, but that is not what I was getting at.
The point was someone was surprised that they shafted their own regarding Hillsborough, i.e. football supporters from the North. That doesn't surprise me in the least as the wealth in England would view those supporters as way beneath them, just as they did the miners. They certainly shafted the Irish, but they were not averse to shafting their own lower classes too.
Thus I am making the argument, certainly for those in power, it was all about class, social status, or rank in Britain.
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day.
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 27, 2016, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day.
While it would be nice for him to come out and accept the findings, we all know what would actually happen, He would ignored the findings and continue to dispute what happened. So I think it's less said the better for him. I get visions of the candyman, and that calling him out 3 times and he'll suddenly appear on the thread. And that's not something I particular want. I'd leave him to it, unless he has the good grace to admit where he was wrong.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 27, 2016, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on April 27, 2016, 03:46:42 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
For a man that usually has a lot to say about ethics and morality, he's notably missing from discussions of this subject in the past day.
While it would be nice for him to come out and accept the findings, we all know what would actually happen, He would ignored the findings and continue to dispute what happened. So I think it's less said the better for him. I get visions of the candyman, and that calling him out 3 times and he'll suddenly appear on the thread. And that's not something I particular want. I'd leave him to it, unless he has the good grace to admit where he was wrong.
That's exactly what he did on the Liverpool thread yesterday evening.
'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.'
Daniel Patrick Moynihan: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1745-everyone-is-entitled-to-his-own-opinion-but-not-to (http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1745-everyone-is-entitled-to-his-own-opinion-but-not-to)
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
Well said. Some individuals aren't worth conversing with. Best to stay well clear and leave the crackpots and fantasists to themselves.
Keep a box of hankies handy :'(. Some of this can't be unseen. Page 1 of 39 was enough for me. How those coppers slept at night is beyond me when you see the carnage.
f**king hell a poxy 3" wide gate to let people out of the pens onto the pitch. >:(.
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/hillsborough-disaster?sort=mostpopular&excludenudity=true&mediatype=photography&phrase=hillsborough%20disaster&family=editorial (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/hillsborough-disaster?sort=mostpopular&excludenudity=true&mediatype=photography&phrase=hillsborough%20disaster&family=editorial)
Quote from: Armamike on April 27, 2016, 07:17:07 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on April 27, 2016, 02:06:04 PM
I was at home, watching it with my brothers, one of whom was a Liverpool fan. He would have had the Candy jersey on. An absolutely beautiful day, the doors opened to the back garden so we were running in and out, playing ball. Then the dawning realization that something was wrong. I just felt numb, I was 13 at the time, and it was very hard to process how quickly it went from a joyful event, to a grim faced Des Lynam giving death tolls.
Just to mention - there was a vile thread on this board, a few years back, started by a particular poster who is most notable by his absence today - it ran to over 40 pages of what could only be described as desecration of the memories of 96 innocent victims and the blackening of the reputation of an entire city. You can guess who it was. And people like him perpetuated the lie, despite the inescapable facts that were available to all, even as early as 1991 and the Taylor report.
Well said. Some individuals aren't worth conversing with. Best to stay well clear and leave the crackpots and fantasists to themselves.
I find it hard to believe that some of the respected posters on here seem to be actually friendly with this vile individual.
Don't be so Savage >:(
I never thought I'd agree with David Vance who tweeted today that if Liverpool's supporters put as much effort into obtaining justice for Heysel victims they might actually gain more credit.
While I have once again every sympathy for the Hillsborough victims,none of whom were involved in any misbehaviour,I will pose this question.If every so called Liverpool supporter behaved in a reasonable fashion at Hillsborough that day,would this tragedy have happened?
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 08:34:09 PM
Don't be so Savage >:(
I never thought I'd agree with David Vance who tweeted today that if Liverpool's supporters put as much effort into obtaining justice for Heysel victims they might actually gain more credit.
While I have once again every sympathy for the Hillsborough victims,none of whom were involved in any misbehaviour,I will pose this question.If every so called Liverpool supporter behaved in a reasonable fashion at Hillsborough that day,would this tragedy have happened?
No comment.
Just quoting it because he will try to delete it later.
I will not delete it.At the end of the day the Police and any other statutory agencies should be held to account for their failings,but if everyone had behaved responsibly that day,their failings wouldn't have happened.
Just as I believe that Brendan Smyth was ultimately responsible for his vile behaviour, not Sean Brady,and that those who planted the bomb in Omagh are ultimately responsible,not the RUC/Garda who failed to intercept the bomb.
I'll engage you. In what way did the Liverpool fans behave irresponsibly?
Who caused the surges on the terraces?
I was in the West Stand that infamous night at Lansdowne Road when it all kicked off with Combat18. We all obeyed Gardai instructions to the letter and got out promptly and safely.
Tony would you ever just shut up the f**k
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/04/14-questions-hillsborough-justice-verdict-unfolded/
Can I refer you to the jury's findings, and especially to question 7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGI9L1wwlwY
that is a staggering read red hand man. Your man hasn't the ability to form a rational opinion so i wouldn't worry and little point engaging.
And every jury,in this case made up by lay people totally sympathetic to the civilians, is always 100% right? I do not want to sully the names of the victims who I accept were totally innocent (and I've visited the memorial at Anfield to pay my respects on a few occasions), but the Police were under extreme pressure that day and as a result made tragic and fatally wrong decisions.You have to ask what or who caused this abnormal pressure.
I shouldn't have engaged with you. But I will say this. Tony, I genuinely pity you.
Imagine being on a jury for 2 years.
It's a joke he's been allowed to peddle his bullshit on this place for so long.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2016, 10:04:40 PM
It's a joke he's been allowed to peddle his bullshit on this place for so long.
This issue is a real gamechanger I think
Point proven.
A person with the ability to form a rational opinion would have read that article.
They're even one word answers.
Anyway it is great justice has been done and hopefully there will be more of it wwith prosecutions.
The tory government and the sun newspaper can hang their heads in shame. Sadly i think we are only beginning to see the damage a tory government can do :(
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 27, 2016, 10:06:22 PM
Point proven.
A person with the ability to form a rational opinion would have read that article.
They're even one word answers.
Anyway it is great justice has been done and hopefully there will be more of it wwith prosecutions.
The tory government and the sun newspaper can hang their heads in shame. Sadly i think we are only beginning to see the damage a tory government can do :(
2600 disability suicides after benefit cuts.
As Sandi Toksvig said, the Tories put the n in cuts
Quote from: seafoid on April 27, 2016, 10:05:48 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2016, 10:04:40 PM
It's a joke he's been allowed to peddle his bullshit on this place for so long.
This issue is a real gamechanger I think
look at the nutjob he referenced agreeing with earlier - https://twitter.com/DVATW
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 27, 2016, 10:04:40 PM
It's a joke he's been allowed to peddle his bullshit on this place for so long.
Lads I have been on here from maybe 98 99. The board has gone through several changes in the way it has been administered and fair play to the lads that look after that. But what I don't understand is how this person has been allowed to express his warped and sometimes evil thoughts on here for so long without sanction.
I was 18 when this happened and so many of the victims were around that age (16 - 20). Because of that I think it probably resonates with a lot of people around that age group at the time. Young, not a lot a responsibilities and mad into football. In the intervening years they should have been going through the stages of their lives as we were. They would all be in their 40s now but because of such a needless tragedy.
What I don't understand is that if everybody is happy with the verdict why do my views (which are shared by thousands of others by the way) matter?
I commend Red for polite,thoughtful and respectful debate (unlike that Savage 5Sams),and while I don't share Red's views I respect both him and them.
Let's be quite clear Tony. I didn't "debate" anything with you. I merely offered you the chance to educate yourself with the facts of the jury's findings.
I never asked, nor wanted your respect.
You stated that the victims were innocent, as they were at the front and crushed to death.
The implication being that it was those who arrived late who had, in your words, behaved irresponsibly, and were responsible for the tragedy.
For your information Tony, 30 of the 96 victims were still outside the ground at 2.52pm, before being shepherded to their death.
Your comments, like so many that you've made before on here, lack a basis in fact. They have also displayed an almost inhumane lack of empathy to your fellow man. As I said previously, I pity you.
Quote from: Red Hand Man on April 27, 2016, 10:39:56 PM
Let's be quite clear Tony. I didn't "debate" anything with you. I merely offered you the chance to educate yourself with the facts of the jury's findings.
I never asked, nor wanted your respect.
You stated that the victims were innocent, as they were at the front and crushed to death.
The implication being that it was those who arrived late who had, in your words, behaved irresponsibly, and were responsible for the tragedy.
For your information Tony, 30 of the 96 victims were still outside the ground at 2.52pm, before being shepherded to their death.
Your comments, like so many that you've made before on here, lack a basis in fact. They have also displayed an almost inhumane lack of empathy to your fellow man. As I said previously, I pity you.
+1.
Tony I have also been about this board for longer than I care to remember.
You recent comments on this are a disgrace. End off.
They should not be tolerated.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 10:28:13 PM
What I don't understand is that if everybody is happy with the verdict why do my views (which are shared by thousands of others by the way) matter?
I commend Red for polite,thoughtful and respectful debate (unlike that Savage 5Sams),and while I don't share Red's views I respect both him and them.
Tony read this a few times. Here is the evidence of the Chief Superintendent in charge of Crowd Safety that day:
Duckenfield also agreed with Michael Mansfield QC, representing 75 families whose relatives were killed, that he was "practising and persisted in a far-reaching deceit" on the day, by lying to Football Association and football club officials about his actions. He admitted that until his evidence at these new inquests, he had not confessed to the series of mistakes he has now admitted.
"I am now very much older, very much wiser and very much more understanding of the events of the day and have decided to tell the whole truth," Duckenfield told the inquiry.He admitted the lie upon which your claims are still based. There is no disputing it anymore.
I hope the mods don't come on here deleting his posts,they should be left there for everyone to read and see what an ignorant oaf this guy is.
What a fcuked up individual. From blaming parents for the horrific sexual abuse their kids suffered at the hands of Priests to admitting he would disown his own flesh and blood if they were Gay and now to this,still blaming fans for Hillsborough even after a two year inquest has cleared them of any wrongdoing.
What? So are you advocating censorship? The plain and simple fact is that the Police were placed under intolerable pressure and made wrong calls that sadly proved fatal. Their crime was in trying to cover this up retrospectively,which is unforgivable.
Also the anti Tory crap on this thread is hypocritical.If it wasn't for Heseltine back in the 1980s,the entire City of Liverpool would be a wasteland today.
Muppet I don't deny what you say.Cover ups in any organisation are wrong.But why did the Police make the wrong calls on this occasion? They had successfully policed FA Cup Semi Finals for decades at Hillsborough after all.
Quote from: laoislad on April 27, 2016, 10:58:27 PM
I hope the mods don't come on here deleting his posts,they should be left there for everyone to read and see what an ignorant oaf this guy is.
What a fcuked up individual. From blaming parents for the horrific sexual abuse their kids suffered at the hands of Priests to admitting he would disown his own flesh and blood if they were Gay and now to this,still blaming fans for Hillsborough even after a two year inquest has cleared them of any wrongdoing.
Don't forget calling Frank McGuigan a "Fat Alco"..
James O'Brien, presenter and journalist for national talk show LBC, getting wired into reviled former S*n editor Kelvin McKenzie's behaviour following the Hillsborough inquests
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-presenter-tears-cornered-rat-11251900 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-presenter-tears-cornered-rat-11251900)
Quote from: 5 Sams on April 27, 2016, 11:07:13 PM
Quote from: laoislad on April 27, 2016, 10:58:27 PM
I hope the mods don't come on here deleting his posts,they should be left there for everyone to read and see what an ignorant oaf this guy is.
What a fcuked up individual. From blaming parents for the horrific sexual abuse their kids suffered at the hands of Priests to admitting he would disown his own flesh and blood if they were Gay and now to this,still blaming fans for Hillsborough even after a two year inquest has cleared them of any wrongdoing.
Don't forget calling Frank McGuigan a "Fat Alco"..
And his f*gg*t joke on the gay marriage thread
I also notice he doesn't epouse his views from here on his social media accounts - I wonder why that is? ::)
Tony on some of these threads you'd be better keeping your opinions to yourself. On practically every thread there is someone talking bollocks on less emotive issues than this and child sexual abuse so maybe you could ply your trade elsewhere ;)
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 11:05:46 PM
Muppet I don't deny what you say.Cover ups in any organisation are wrong.But why did the Police make the wrong calls on this occasion? They had successfully policed FA Cup Semi Finals for decades at Hillsborough after all.
Hillsborough didn't hold an FA Cup semi-final for 5 years after this close call:
https://hotspurhq.com/2012/09/12/the-hillsborough-disaster-in-1981-it-could-have-been-tottenham/ (https://hotspurhq.com/2012/09/12/the-hillsborough-disaster-in-1981-it-could-have-been-tottenham/)
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 11:05:46 PM
Muppet I don't deny what you say.Cover ups in any organisation are wrong.But why did the Police make the wrong calls on this occasion? They had successfully policed FA Cup Semi Finals for decades at Hillsborough after all.
Really? So the police did a successful job when those 38 Spurs fans got injured on the same f**king terrace 8 years earlier?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2643060/Hillsborough-inquest-jury-shown-video-crush-Leppings-Lane-terrace-injured-38-fans-eight-years-fatal-1989-disaster.html
or the QF in 1987 - http://www.webcitation.org/6BPbJQpWX
or the SF weeks later - http://www.webcitation.org/6AhvAyZIM
Quote from: muppet on April 27, 2016, 11:13:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 11:05:46 PM
Muppet I don't deny what you say.Cover ups in any organisation are wrong.But why did the Police make the wrong calls on this occasion? They had successfully policed FA Cup Semi Finals for decades at Hillsborough after all.
Hillsborough didn't hold an FA Cup semi-final for 5 years after this close call:
https://hotspurhq.com/2012/09/12/the-hillsborough-disaster-in-1981-it-could-have-been-tottenham/ (https://hotspurhq.com/2012/09/12/the-hillsborough-disaster-in-1981-it-could-have-been-tottenham/)
Never mind the fact the Chief Police Officer in charge on the day had never been in charge of an event as big as that before. He admitted he had never even been to Hillsborough before that day.
If he had maybe he would have known to close the central pen before opening the gates like was done on previous occasions that they had to open the main gate.
https://youtu.be/5x2YBPd9hYk
Quote from: laoislad on April 27, 2016, 11:33:19 PM
https://youtu.be/5x2YBPd9hYk
Drunken yobs on top of those statues.
Jesus Tony son u have issues if you can come on here and even imply that the supporters were to blame. It wouldn't have mattered if it were man u fans or Arsenal fans the outcome would still have been the same. Get a grip of urself
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 09:07:05 PM
I will not delete it.At the end of the day the Police and any other statutory agencies should be held to account for their failings,but if everyone had behaved responsibly that day,their failings wouldn't have happened.
Just as I believe that Brendan Smyth was ultimately responsible for his vile behaviour, not Sean Brady,and that those who planted the bomb in Omagh are ultimately responsible,not the RUC/Garda who failed to intercept the bomb.
So, by your logic:
On Bloody Sunday, the citizens of Derry behaved in an unreasonable fashion, and because of this irresponsible behaviour, the British Army were forced into making mistakes, resulting in murdered innocent civilians.
Therefore the Bloody Sunday massacre was caused by the people of Derry, not the British Army?
Catch yourself on.
Rubbish.But the jury at the Birmingham Six trial found all the men guilty.Did you agree with that decision?
I have no love for any soccer club, but there is something criminally rotten about those who greyed the area, muddied the reporting, stained the character of Liverpool, and ultimately covered the asses of those responsible, in this case. As in any miscarriage of justice and similarly to many Irish people have suffered so often before, it is important that as much justice is served as possible in memory of those who lost their lives that day.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 28, 2016, 07:00:45 AM
Rubbish.But the jury at the Birmingham Six trial found all the men guilty.Did you agree with that decision?
Your views are evn hypocrtical of your own views.
Quote from: theskull1 on April 27, 2016, 11:08:52 PM
James O'Brien, presenter and journalist for national talk show LBC, getting wired into reviled former S*n editor Kelvin McKenzie's behaviour following the Hillsborough inquests
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-presenter-tears-cornered-rat-11251900 (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/watch-presenter-tears-cornered-rat-11251900)
skewered
Reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Cmzvt549Y
You're in good company with David Vance Tony, with your cretinous views.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 27, 2016, 11:05:46 PM
Muppet I don't deny what you say.Cover ups in any organisation are wrong.But why did the Police make the wrong calls on this occasion? They had successfully policed FA Cup Semi Finals for decades at Hillsborough after all.
If you read as much as you claim to have done about this, you would understand that: (a) the man in charge of the Police on the day had not visited the Hillsborough Ground before the match, (b) the man in charge of the Police operation on the day had been in his job for a fortnight before the game, and (c) the man he had replaced had been done so because it was felt he was too onerous in putting public safety aspects in place (i.e. costing too much money). It is pretty clear that the Police officer in charge did not know what he was doing, and had vastly reduced resources as a (Thatcherite) cost-cutting measure. And that, in a nutshell, is what happened. The scandal is that this supposed public service then decided to blame the people they were supposed to protect for the atrocity, rather than accepting the blame. Does that answer your questions?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tony-blair-rejected-hillsborough-inquiry-6067392
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/poet-laureate-carol-ann-duffy-3334921
THE Cathedral bell, tolled, could never tell;
nor the Liver Birds, mute in their stone spell;
or the Mersey, though seagulls wailed, cursed, overhead,
in no language for the slandered dead...
not the raw, red throat of the Kop, keening,
or the cops' words, censored of meaning;
not the clock, slow handclapping the coroner's deadline,
or the memo to Thatcher, or the tabloid headline...
but fathers told of their daughters; the names of sons
on the lips of their mothers like prayers; lost ones
honoured for bitter years by orphan, cousin, wife -
not a matter of football, but of life.
Over this great city, light after long dark;
truth, the sweet silver song of the lark.
Quote from: FermGael on April 27, 2016, 10:43:31 PM
Quote from: Red Hand Man on April 27, 2016, 10:39:56 PM
Let's be quite clear Tony. I didn't "debate" anything with you. I merely offered you the chance to educate yourself with the facts of the jury's findings.
I never asked, nor wanted your respect.
You stated that the victims were innocent, as they were at the front and crushed to death.
The implication being that it was those who arrived late who had, in your words, behaved irresponsibly, and were responsible for the tragedy.
For your information Tony, 30 of the 96 victims were still outside the ground at 2.52pm, before being shepherded to their death.
Your comments, like so many that you've made before on here, lack a basis in fact. They have also displayed an almost inhumane lack of empathy to your fellow man. As I said previously, I pity you.
+1.
Tony I have also been about this board for longer than I care to remember.
You recent comments on this are a disgrace. End off.
They should not be tolerated.
Correct
Quote from: general_lee on April 28, 2016, 08:20:57 AM
You're in good company with David Vance Tony, with your cretinous views.
And McKenzie..the three of them would be well suited together
It's ill formed opinions on things which have ruined peoples lives again. Facts are irrelevant to the opinion held.
I don't know if it's a wind up or not but it's disgusting.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 28, 2016, 07:00:45 AM
Rubbish.But the jury at the Birmingham Six trial found all the men guilty.Did you agree with that decision?
If I was allowed to falsify evidence as I wished, I'd get a jury to find you guilty of anything, even decency.
QuoteThe plain and simple fact is that the Police were placed under intolerable pressure and made wrong calls that sadly proved fatal.
THEY WERE NOT PLACED UNDER INTOLERABLE PRESSURE TONY!!!!!!!!In one of his columns in the Daily Mirror, Brian Reade who was at the match wrote about that day.
QuoteIt was the second year running we'd been drawn to play Nottingham Forest in an FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough and those of us in that red procession which snaked along the M62 to Sheffield had few worries about reaching Wembley again.
But different kinds of doubts were creeping in.
Major roadworks, an accident and persistent police checks were causing delays, and fears spread that the kick-off might be missed.
On reaching Hillsborough those fears were realised.
At 2.30pm, Leppings Lane, the entry point for all Liverpool fans, was human gridlock.
No police or stewards were on hand to filter the thousands of fans into queues.
The only visible authority was half-a dozen forlorn figures in blue on horseback and a few on the ground, screaming at the swaying crowd to back away from the turnstiles.
For the second year running, and despite protests, Liverpool were given 4,000 fewer tickets and the smaller end of the ground - despite having a much bigger following than Forest.
Geographically it made the police job of getting fans in and out of Sheffield easier.
Ensuring safety is how they termed it. It meant all 24,000 Liverpool ticket-holders, whether in Leppings Lane or the West and North stands, had to pass through 23 turnstiles, most so old they constantly jammed.
At the much newer Kop end Forest had 60 modern turnstiles. As the ground erupted with expectation at the entry of the teams, outside in Leppings Lane there was pandemonium.
Fans, angry at the lack of movement and organisation, berated the police, some of whom were screaming into their radios for assistance.
Many of us moved away from the turnstiles and looked on from a distance, convinced the kick-off would be put back while they sorted out the chaos.
Instead, at 2.52pm a huge blue exit gate opened and 2,000 of us poured in. At the back of the Leppings Lane terrace, stewards who were supposed to be dispersing the supporters evenly into five pens had vanished.
Consequently the bulk of fans ignored the lesser populated pens at the sides of the terrace and headed into the two central ones behind the goal, already over-crowded.
Those at the front became packed tighter and tighter.
The game was now under way and fans at the back, ignorant of the crush, concentrated on trying to get a view of the pitch.
They weren't to know that ahead of them on this shallow-sloping concrete there was panic, fear, hyper-ventilating, fainting, hair drenched in sweat and vomit matting on the metal fencing.
Thousands of disgruntled fans were still outside as the match was about to get underway. This was not of their making.
They hadn't all come out of the nearest pubs or left it to the last minute to get parked.
Even in this column Reade acknowledges that the fans were angry and yes berated the police for their inaction.
BUT THE POLICE WERE NOT PLACED UNDER INTOLERABLE PRESSURE.Outside the ground, the fans were relatively safe. The may have missed some of the match but at least they were safe. No one was going to be crushed to death.
The police, the jury, even the Prime minister and for Christ sake even the man who gave the orders that day now admit and acknowledge that the actions were not only negligent but criminal.
Numerous quotes, articles, videos, case notes have now been produced to back up the jury's criminal verdict but you, you pugnacious person have not posted one shred of evidence to back up your warped, narrow mindset.
Post something up Tony to back up your claims or retract.
There is no point in asking him to retract. The church rape thing was exactly the same.
People expecting TF to see the errors of his ways and apologize - WTF!!
Great to see so many Irish men with 100% faith in the British judicial system. For what it's worth my position has changed.Up until recently I would have apportioned 100% of the blame on so called Liverpool supporters for this tragedy.It's not like they didn't have form in this regard, a mere four years on from Heysel. But there now seems to be substantial and irrefutable evidence that Police errors,and deficiencies in the stadium itself, were the major factor.
Having said that,I still do not believe that some Liverpool supporters are entirely blameless.If people behave and follow Police instructions, then the Police's job is made relatively easy.If not,mistakes will inevitably occur, as will knee jerk reactions etc, with, as in this case,occasionally catostrophic results.
The greatest legacy of the Hillsborough Victims is the state of the art current stadia and health and safety regulations.I don't intend to comment further on this matter.
QuoteI don't intend to comment further on this matter.
Good. f**k off then
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on April 28, 2016, 05:58:11 PM
QuoteI don't intend to comment further on this matter.
Good. f**k off then
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on April 28, 2016, 05:48:03 PM
Great to see so many Irish men with 100% faith in the British judicial system. For what it's worth my position has changed.Up until recently I would have apportioned 100% of the blame on so called Liverpool supporters for this tragedy.It's not like they didn't have form in this regard, a mere four years on from Heysel. But there now seems to be substantial and irrefutable evidence that Police errors,and deficiencies in the stadium itself, were the major factor.
Heysel has NOTHING to do with what happened at Hillsborough.
One entailed agro between fans escalating into Liverpool fans running at the Juve fans, backing them into a crush against a wall, and nearly 40 fans dying when the wall collapsed. The state of the stadium and organization and so on contributed, but the main blame lay with the Liverpool fans who chased the Juve fans. That was not the case at all at Hillsborough which was completely a result of incompetence and cynicism on the part of the authorities.
Further on Heysel, Liverpool fans were hardly unique in their actions that day - English fans of all clubs AND the national team were notorious around Europe in the 70s and early 80s. People always throw the "murderers" comment around and blame Liverpool for the European ban in the late 80s, but the fact is that something like Heysel was going to happen at some point, and the reason for the blanket ban was the Heysel was merely the tragic endpoint for what had been an ongoing and escalating cycle of violent behaviour by English football fans. Man United were kicked out the Cup Winners Cup in the 70s for hooliganism. Leeds and Rangers got turfed out of European competition back then too. Christ, a kid even died when a hooligan-caused crush caused a wall collapse at a Birmingham-Leeds match a few weeks before Heysel.
In fairness as I understand these people were hooligans who used football matches as a means of satisfying their thirst for violence rather than football fans
http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.
More lies from the authorities?
Quote from: T Fearon on April 29, 2016, 09:18:47 PM
http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.
More lies from the authorities?
Quote from the article linked...
"It was initially reported the pair were Liverpool fans on their way to Thursday night's Europa League semi-final first leg against Villarreal.
But passengers on board the plane said the men were in fact members of a stag party...".
Class Report: Must try harder.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 29, 2016, 09:18:47 PM
http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.
More lies from the authorities?
D- Tony
I would give them Z- for the week that's in it.Have they no respect for the Hillsborough victims?
Thought you werent postin here any more ye big c*nt
Even tho Tony's notions have obviously be dreamed up as part of some tribalist prejustice waffle from the Yid Army,a dissenting voice is sometimes important if even to rubbish some incorrect ideas that float around and inform the rest of us.
There has been no bigger supporter of the 96 than my own club,Celtic.They hosted Liverpool's first game post Hillsborough (which I was at) and there is a signed Framed Liverpool jersey on the wall in the interior at Celtic Park,with the number 96, signed by the King and a personal message of thanks from him.
Celtics position is not the same as your own then. I'd suggest that it's wrong to take credit for something you had fcuk all to do with. In the interests of decency Kiddo Keep the head down and leave this one alone.
Quote from: rrhf on April 30, 2016, 08:37:48 AM
Celtics position is not the same as your own then. I'd suggest that it's wrong to take credit for something you had fcuk all to do with. In the interests of decency Kiddo Keep the head down and leave this one alone.
+1.
Rest In Peace the 96.
With regards to that Fearon imbecile, everyone should copy and post the crap he spouts in here onto his Twitter to see how much support he gets! After all he does say in his account to give him credit for his posts on Twitter.
Quote from: T Fearon on April 29, 2016, 09:28:07 PM
I would give them Z- for the week that's in it.Have they no respect for the Hillsborough victims?
good man. Mock the dead now ::)
Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 29, 2016, 09:24:13 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on April 29, 2016, 09:18:47 PM
http://www.thelocal.es/20160428/drunk-liverpool-fans-booted-off-ryanair-flight-to-alicante.
More lies from the authorities?
Quote from the article linked...
"It was initially reported the pair were Liverpool fans on their way to Thursday night's Europa League semi-final first leg against Villarreal.
But passengers on board the plane said the men were in fact members of a stag party...".
Class Report: Must try harder.
;D
And even if it HAD been a pair of Liverpool supporters, what exactly would that have proven??