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I thought this would be interesting. Local rivals . Which is more likely to win the all Ireland before the other? Monaghan have never won Sam. Cavan have 5 but the last one was decades ago. Both are football mad and in D1 next year.

If Monaghan had 2 forwards they could do it. An awful pity Nudie never made it . And Monaghan have more ulsters than Armagh.  Tyrone and down. But Cavan have the uaisleacht.

Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

It's in the blood lad.

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:40:29 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

It's in the blood lad.

I appreciate that but blood has to be in the memory, and can anyone remember what Cavan did during WW2 or the immediate aftermath?
I can faintly remember Ray Carolan and Charlie Gallagher.
Thats about it.
Cavan have to create new memories.

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 11:09:17 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:40:29 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

It's in the blood lad.

I appreciate that but blood has to be in the memory, and can anyone remember what Cavan did during WW2 or the immediate aftermath?
I can faintly remember Ray Carolan and Charlie Gallagher.
Thats about it.
Cavan have to create new memories.

Blood is in the blood. Many a man prays to Jesus, don't know of anyone who met him. That's what ye Monaghan men will need to do to win Sam. Pray like there us no tomorrow.

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 11:23:27 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 11:09:17 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:40:29 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

It's in the blood lad.

I appreciate that but blood has to be in the memory, and can anyone remember what Cavan did during WW2 or the immediate aftermath?
I can faintly remember Ray Carolan and Charlie Gallagher.
Thats about it.
Cavan have to create new memories.

Blood is in the blood. Many a man prays to Jesus, don't know of anyone who met him. That's what ye Monaghan men will need to do to win Sam. Pray like there us no tomorrow.

It might be in the blood but after a certain amount of generations I doubt that will matter much.

For what it's worth I don't see either team winning Sam anytime soon, so it's anyone's guess. Our best chance is in this current period, but we're short a top midfielder and another scoring forward for a start. As for Cavan, well they've had some good wins at underage but that's no guarantee of senior success. An Ulster in the next few years would be a fine achievement but tough, winning an All-Ireland is a completely different proposition though.

What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?
Actually I checked it up and by my reckoning it was Offaly in 1982. For this reason alone I can't see either of these counties making a breakthrough in the foreseeable future. Both counties doing excellent work and overachieving massively and deserve great credit.

The only negative is that failed drugs test of the Monaghan panelist last year which still doesn't sit well with me and puts a slight seed of doubt at to whether it was encouraged for prospective panelists to bulk up by whatever means necessary. We will never know though.

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?

Offaly? Would Armagh have 100K of the right religion ?

I reckon Armagh would probably just have 100k who might be amenable to the GAA alright.

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:40:29 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 04, 2016, 10:21:06 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 04, 2016, 10:06:53 PM
Monaghan will never win Sam. Never.

But you still have a realistic hope for Cavan?  ;D

It's in the blood lad.

You're dwindling toward homeopathic levels of dilution at this stage. ;D

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?
Actually I checked it up and by my reckoning it was Offaly in 1982. For this reason alone I can't see either of these counties making a breakthrough in the foreseeable future. Both counties doing excellent work and overachieving massively and deserve great credit.
.

That's a good point.

Its one of the strange things about sport, how teams and their supporters are generally reasonably content with the status quo and the hierarchy of expectations.

I'd be delighted if Donegal could keep up their recent (small sample) rate of a Sam every two decades, with a few Ulster titles and AI semis thrown in as well. Leitrim beside us would probably bite your hand off for a Connacht final appearance every decade.

Whereas Kerry and Dublin would consider anything other than two or three AI titles a decade as a slump.

Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2016, 01:48:21 AM

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?
Actually I checked it up and by my reckoning it was Offaly in 1982. For this reason alone I can't see either of these counties making a breakthrough in the foreseeable future. Both counties doing excellent work and overachieving massively and deserve great credit.
.

That's a good point.

Its one of the strange things about sport, how teams and their supporters are generally reasonably content with the status quo and the hierarchy of expectations.

I'd be delighted if Donegal could keep up their recent (small sample) rate of a Sam every two decades, with a few Ulster titles and AI semis thrown in as well. Leitrim beside us would probably bite your hand off for a Connacht final appearance every decade.

Whereas Kerry and Dublin would consider anything other than two or three AI titles a decade as a slump.

Leitrim people will bite your hand off if you say hello to them.

Quote from: Syferus on April 05, 2016, 02:32:15 AM

Quote from: J70 on April 05, 2016, 01:48:21 AM

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?
Actually I checked it up and by my reckoning it was Offaly in 1982. For this reason alone I can't see either of these counties making a breakthrough in the foreseeable future. Both counties doing excellent work and overachieving massively and deserve great credit.
.

That's a good point.

Its one of the strange things about sport, how teams and their supporters are generally reasonably content with the status quo and the hierarchy of expectations.

I'd be delighted if Donegal could keep up their recent (small sample) rate of a Sam every two decades, with a few Ulster titles and AI semis thrown in as well. Leitrim beside us would probably bite your hand off for a Connacht final appearance every decade.

Whereas Kerry and Dublin would consider anything other than two or three AI titles a decade as a slump.

Leitrim people will bite your hand off if you say hello to them.

Never mind hello, it's thanks you should be saying to them after last Sunday's farce.

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:18:09 AM
I reckon Armagh would probably just have 100k who might be amenable to the GAA alright.

What are the GAA populations of the occupied counties ?

Monaghan are so dependent on yer man. He scored half of their total in the league. That is not sustainable.  A real pity cos I would love to see them winning an all Ireland.

in the queue of counties to win the AI, Monaghan are ahead of their subordinate  neighbours, Cavan.
But that doesn't mean very much.

Quote from: Main Street on April 05, 2016, 11:04:44 AM
in the queue of counties to win the AI, Monaghan are ahead of their subordinate  neighbours, Cavan.
But that doesn't mean very much.

I don't think so, we've a VIP pass that get us up the Queue.

Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2016, 09:57:46 AM

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:18:09 AM
I reckon Armagh would probably just have 100k who might be amenable to the GAA alright.

What are the GAA populations of the occupied counties ?

The total population of County Armagh is 174,000.  It is made up of 3 different areas, Armagh City & District Council area which is about 50% Catholic, most of Craigavon Council area which would be about 40% Catholic, and the South Armagh portion of Newry Council which is about 85% Catholic. 
The South Armagh area is the least populated part as there are no major towns. 

As a guess I would estimate that the Catholic percentage for the county as a whole is approx 55%, which would leave the population in GAA terms more similar to Laois, Offaly and Westmeath.

Feckit - maybe you should encourage the 45% of people to play instead of ruling them out. As more advanced Ulster counties have done. Armagh has a 174k people. Cavan has 70k odd I think.

I knew some w**ker would say this!  If you want to join me in encouraging cross community relations in the North then please do.  I have been working at this for years.  I'm not ruling them out, I'm just replying to Seafoid's question.

Our neighbouring Ulster County of Monaghan have at least 3 or 4 Protestant players on their panel, and it would be fantastic if Armagh could same day have the same.

Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2016, 12:12:44 AM

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM
What is the last county with a population of less than 100k to win an AI?

Offaly? Would Armagh have 100K of the right religion ?

Right religion? I did not realise we were bringing bigotry into this now.

Quote from: Feckitt on April 05, 2016, 03:20:55 PM
I knew some w**ker would say this!  If you want to join me in encouraging cross community relations in the North then please do.  I have been working at this for years.  I'm not ruling them out, I'm just replying to Seafoid's question.

Our neighbouring Ulster County of Monaghan have at least 3 or 4 Protestant players on their panel, and it would be fantastic if Armagh could same day have the same.

You are very angry, are you sure you should be involved in encouraging cross community relations. Maybe that's why it is so unsuccessful in Armagh. Sure didn't Willie Frazer used to play GAA and look what ye turned him into.

No, I just don't like someone inferring that I am a bigot that's all.

There is nothing bigoted in acknowledging that if you went into Markethill, Tandragee, Hamiltonsbawn, Richhill, Bleary and many other towns and villages in Co Armagh you would have great difficulty gathering up 15 footballers.  That's not bigoted, that's not ruling out Protestants, that is just being realistic.

Quote from: Feckitt on April 05, 2016, 03:50:27 PM
No, I just don't like someone inferring that I am a bigot that's all.

There is nothing bigoted in acknowledging that if you went into Markethill, Tandragee, Hamiltonsbawn, Richhill, Bleary and many other towns and villages in Co Armagh you would have great difficulty gathering up 15 footballers.  That's not bigoted, that's not ruling out Protestants, that is just being realistic.

A person's measure is not the church they go to, we even accept people who do not go to church. but whether they vote for sectarian anti-Irish political organisations. There is a middle ground section in Armagh, like the other 6 counties, who might be attracted to the GAA and the GAA sometimes lacks a bit of imagination about doing this. But the notion that DUP voters can be attractedin any numbers  is nonsense. There are some Protestants in Cavan or Monghan, but limited numbers of them nowadays favour these sectarian organisations. That said, does Drum have a GAA club?

Quote from: armaghniac on April 05, 2016, 04:00:04 PM

Quote from: Feckitt on April 05, 2016, 03:50:27 PM
No, I just don't like someone inferring that I am a bigot that's all.

There is nothing bigoted in acknowledging that if you went into Markethill, Tandragee, Hamiltonsbawn, Richhill, Bleary and many other towns and villages in Co Armagh you would have great difficulty gathering up 15 footballers.  That's not bigoted, that's not ruling out Protestants, that is just being realistic.

A person's measure is not the church they go to, we even accept people who do not go to church. but whether they vote for sectarian anti-Irish political organisations. There is a middle ground section in Armagh, like the other 6 counties, who might be attracted to the GAA and the GAA sometimes lacks a bit of imagination about doing this. But the notion that DUP voters can be attracted in any numbers  is nonsense. There are some Protestants in Cavan or Monaghan, but limited numbers of them nowadays favour these sectarian organisations. That said, does Drum have a GAA club?

The population of Drum village is about 48, so no, it doesn't have a GAA club. Anyone in the outlying area interested in playing Gaelic Games would play for either Currin (to the west) or Killeevan (to the north). Irrespective of their religious persuasion they daren't head about a mile south, to Cavan, as that would be the work of the infidel.

Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
Feckit - maybe you should encourage the 45% of people to play instead of ruling them out.

Don't know where Cavan's moral high ground on this issue stems from.

Whatever about Monaghan's progressive inclusive nature I'd say if a Protestant tried to join the Cavan panel Gearoid McKiernan wouldn't be long putting him in his place.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30932364

Quote from: charlie linkbox on April 05, 2016, 04:52:46 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
Feckit - maybe you should encourage the 45% of people to play instead of ruling them out.

Don't know where Cavan's moral high ground on this issue stems from.

Whatever about Monaghan's progressive inclusive nature I'd say if a Protestant tried to join the Cavan panel Gearoid McKiernan wouldn't be long putting him in his place.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30932364

I think that is an outrageous slur to make against Gearoid McKiernan.  He made a sectarian comment in the heat of battle, I like most people agree that the ban should have been longer, but it is a hell of a leap to make that he would be opposed to Protestants in general.  I think you should delete your post.

There are protestants on the Cavan team too, none of them give a shite what Gearoid said.

Quote from: charlie linkbox on April 05, 2016, 04:52:46 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
Feckit - maybe you should encourage the 45% of people to play instead of ruling them out.

Don't know where Cavan's moral high ground on this issue stems from.

Whatever about Monaghan's progressive inclusive nature I'd say if a Protestant tried to join the Cavan panel Gearoid McKiernan wouldn't be long putting him in his place.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30932364

I was once playing a match and a lad gave me an ojus box in the jaw. When I got up I got in his face and said something along the lines of "I'm going to kill you, you cnuts baxtard". Later I apologised for saying he was the illegitimate child of a vagina, it was the first thing that popped into my mind you see.

"Heat of battle" is a lovely phrase to explain away any behaviour. "Freudian slip betraying a held prejudice" is another nice phrase.

I'll delete nothing. You jump all over my comment with your righteous indignation yet choose to ignore the insinuations in the comment below without knowing the circumstances of the young lad involved.

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:06:59 AM

The only negative is that failed drugs test of the Monaghan panelist last year which still doesn't sit well with me and puts a slight seed of doubt at to whether it was encouraged for prospective panelists to bulk up by whatever means necessary. We will never know though.

Where's your call for that to be deleted?

Quote from: Feckitt on April 05, 2016, 02:24:28 PM

Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2016, 09:57:46 AM

Quote from: Kuwabatake Sanjuro on April 05, 2016, 12:18:09 AM
I reckon Armagh would probably just have 100k who might be amenable to the GAA alright.

What are the GAA populations of the occupied counties ?

The total population of County Armagh is 174,000.  It is made up of 3 different areas, Armagh City & District Council area which is about 50% Catholic, most of Craigavon Council area which would be about 40% Catholic, and the South Armagh portion of Newry Council which is about 85% Catholic. 
The South Armagh area is the least populated part as there are no major towns. 

As a guess I would estimate that the Catholic percentage for the county as a whole is approx 55%, which would leave the population in GAA terms more similar to Laois, Offaly and Westmeath.

The Craigavon area would be the most populous area of the county but it has particular problems which in the past did not lend itself to improved GAA activities. As said the majority of the people would be of unionist persuasion with a fair amount very anti GAA. Add to that there is a big soccer tradition in the area. For many years playing Gaelic was a dangerous pastime in the area. In 2002 the Armagh team that won the All Ireland had 3 players from that area who featured on the day. Mullaghbawn, a small rural club in South Armagh, had 4 players, or former players, who featured. Work is going on in clubs to change this. Clann Eireann in particular are making great strides. However, it will be a number of years before this work bears fruit.

Quote from: Westside on April 05, 2016, 05:48:13 PM
There are protestants on the Cavan team too, none of them give a shite what Gearoid said.

How many protestants are on the cavan team? I cant think of any.

Due to demographic reasons the likes of Derry and Armagh wouldn't have massive GAA picks.

I believe the last player to play from Derry City for Derry is Martin McGuinness brother back in the 70s/80s. The city which probably has a population of circa 100k, heavily nationalist is soccer mad and the GAA has a minimal presence there, then you have the fact that a lot of areas in North Derry is heavily unionist - particularly round the Coleraine/Portrush/Limavady regions which have sizeable populations. I think Derry do really well for the numbers available to them when you take the unionist population and Derry City out of the equation.

Armagh as already commented on have a similar problem. Realistically to compare counties like Derry and Armagh to southern counterparts you'd probably be looking at mainly rural counties with populations of 70-80k. Down probably in and around the same bracket, mainly concentrated round the south and middle of Down and in the more rural, less populated areas. Tyrone would definitely fair the best in terms of playing numbers in the O6, it's majority Catholic, mainly rural county where there are a fair few clubs from strong nationalist communities across the county and no big cities or spanning urban areas where soccer dominates. Tyrone would probably be the equivalent to a county down south with a 100k population. On the balance of it, the Ulster counties fair an awful lot better with what they've got than their southern counterparts, Fermanagh being the prime examples of that, smallest playing numbers in the Championship yet well able to mix it at the top table.

Quote from: Feckitt on April 05, 2016, 05:26:50 PM

Quote from: charlie linkbox on April 05, 2016, 04:52:46 PM

Quote from: Itchy on April 05, 2016, 03:13:15 PM
Feckit - maybe you should encourage the 45% of people to play instead of ruling them out.

Don't know where Cavan's moral high ground on this issue stems from.

Whatever about Monaghan's progressive inclusive nature I'd say if a Protestant tried to join the Cavan panel Gearoid McKiernan wouldn't be long putting him in his place.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30932364

I think that is an outrageous slur to make against Gearoid McKiernan.  He made a sectarian comment in the heat of battle, I like most people agree that the ban should have been longer, but it is a hell of a leap to make that he would be opposed to Protestants in general.  I think you should delete your post.

It's an incident not worth repeating and Gearoid should be given the benefit of doubt that he has learned his lesson and matured in the meantime.
And there was an idiot from Magheracloone who also threw sectarian abuse against one of the Wylies in a  Monaghan club game.

Totally agree Main Street, the issue has been dealt with and is not worth repeating.

Back to the subject, it's hard to know who'd have a better chance of winning Sam. Both would have limited enough options compared to the bigger counties. Cavan have a good spread of players, from about 20 clubs, which is good going. Monaghan have been going well in the past few years, which is great..

Serious rivalry between the counties, which is healthy for the most part.. Probably the oldest rivalry in Ulster..

An Ulster Final meeting would be some craic, never mind Sam!

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on April 05, 2016, 04:47:31 PM
The population of Drum village is about 48, so no, it doesn't have a GAA club. Anyone in the outlying area interested in playing Gaelic Games would play for either Currin (to the west) or Killeevan (to the north). Irrespective of their religious persuasion they daren't head about a mile south, to Cavan, as that would be the work of the infidel.

Well it has 4 churches, so perhaps there are more available on a Sunday. Apparently the Free Presbyterian pastor is a hurling snob, so perhaps the big wouldn't suit. I agree about the dangers of going towards Cavan though, they may have got the rear end of the Ulster plantation, but they escaped an even worse fate by not going the extra mile.

Whatever about Monaghan, the last thing the GAA needs is a resurgent Cavan.
Ignorant shower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__FpOhlzV7I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__FpOhlzV7I)

Quote from: Main Street on April 05, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
And there was an idiot from Magheracloone who also threw sectarian abuse against one of the Wylies in a  Monaghan club game.

Wasn't the whole reason for Magheracloone refusing to play games at any level because they were absolutely adamant that the player didn't say anything remotely sectarian? They won their appeal to the ulster council against a ban because there was no proof of any abuse.

Anyway back to the topic, Monaghan's best chance for an all-Ireland was probably last year to be honest. If they can actually put some good performances together in Croke Park you never know but they'd need a good bit of luck. Cavan are definitely going in the right direction but they're still a few years off yet.

Quote from: Niall8100 on April 06, 2016, 11:13:41 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 05, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
And there was an idiot from Magheracloone who also threw sectarian abuse against one of the Wylies in a  Monaghan club game.

Wasn't the whole reason for Magheracloone refusing to play games at any level because they were absolutely adamant that the player didn't say anything remotely sectarian? They won their appeal to the ulster council against a ban because there was no proof of any abuse.

Anyway back to the topic, Monaghan's best chance for an all-Ireland was probably last year to be honest. If they can actually put some good performances together in Croke Park you never know but they'd need a good bit of luck. Cavan are definitely going in the right direction but they're still a few years off yet.

I take your point and accept it, but I personally chose to believe the Ballybay men who I know would not make up serious stuff like that. But I was not there in person to hear it for myself.
When there is not enough supporting independent evidence, then it is a one person's word against another and that is not enough for a punishment. The punishment btw, is a mere one game ban for the offender.

Quote from: Niall8100 on April 06, 2016, 11:13:41 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 05, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
And there was an idiot from Magheracloone who also threw sectarian abuse against one of the Wylies in a  Monaghan club game.

Wasn't the whole reason for Magheracloone refusing to play games at any level because they were absolutely adamant that the player didn't say anything remotely sectarian? They won their appeal to the ulster council against a ban because there was no proof of any abuse.

Seems to be par for the course for the GAA.

An allegation is made, whether racial/sectarian/fill-in-blank verbal abuse/biting etc. Accused team circle the wagons, adamant nothing happened. Definitive proof either way can't be produced. GAA washes their hands of it.

Quote from: Main Street on April 06, 2016, 11:43:25 PM

Quote from: Niall8100 on April 06, 2016, 11:13:41 PM

Quote from: Main Street on April 05, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
And there was an idiot from Magheracloone who also threw sectarian abuse against one of the Wylies in a  Monaghan club game.

Wasn't the whole reason for Magheracloone refusing to play games at any level because they were absolutely adamant that the player didn't say anything remotely sectarian? They won their appeal to the ulster council against a ban because there was no proof of any abuse.

Anyway back to the topic, Monaghan's best chance for an all-Ireland was probably last year to be honest. If they can actually put some good performances together in Croke Park you never know but they'd need a good bit of luck. Cavan are definitely going in the right direction but they're still a few years off yet.

I take your point and accept it, but I personally chose to believe the Ballybay men who I know would not make up serious stuff like that. But I was not there in person to hear it for myself.
When there is not enough supporting independent evidence, then it is a one person's word against another and that is not enough for a punishment. The punishment btw, is a mere one game ban for the offender.

Fair point as well I wasn't at the game so I can't be sure, I know the player who was at the centre of the allegation and it just seems completely against his character and personality. That as well as extremity of Magheracloone's response to the 8 week ban makes me give him the benefit of the doubt, but I suppose nobody can know for sure.

Found a report on it here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/magheracloone-back-in-action-as-accused-player-fights-abuse-ban-29285950.html

Anyway I don't know how a fairly simple thread got onto the topic of sectarianism but sure anyway  :P In the short term I think Monaghan have a better chance of an all-Ireland but Cavan have improved a lot. Doesn't mean either will actually win one any time soon.

the player