Its been just over a year since I went Veggie. Curious to know if there are any other Veggies on the board?
I was massive meatie before turning veggie and had a big soft spot for chorizo.
Changed because of the horrible way in which meat is produced, cruel and horrible unethical. Meat is very unenvironmentally friendly.
Since turning I have never felt healthier, have reduced cholesterol and have lost weight.
Half of me wants to ridicule you, the other half is saying fair play.
I don't know how you do it, I love meat. I try to eat healthy so I try to avoid a lot of stuff and stick to white meats and fish. The odd time though I will pig out with a fry or steak and chips.
Do you never get tempted..?
Have became more and more veggie of late. Could seriously see myself going down that route some time.
Do meat free Mondays - which is basically from seeing an online campaign to raise awareness of food shortages.
I think what puts people off at home is the lack of variety in salads etc. Greek, Turkish, Lebanese food all do fantastic salads with great flavour.
Probably more boys on here love the beef than those who don't.
Quote from: topcuppla on June 19, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Probably more boys on here love the beef than those who don't.
youre top of the pile ye closet shirt lifter
Each to their own but I can't understand anyone who doesn't eat meat.
I'd eat steak for breakfast.
+1
Im a complete Tyrannosaurus Rex.
Cant live without meat. Love salads alright but cant do without meat.
No offence either, but in my experience any vegetarians ive ever had pleasure of meeting have always been complete doses.
Probably tarrin them all with one brush but they have always been these arty-farty, bohemian, groovy types that are a pain in the hole.
Been a veggie for 20 odd years now. Turned off by the cruelty of the meat industry. The first year, I missed it a bit from time to time, but never since. Bought myself a decent vegetarian cookbook and learned how to cook. I've eaten a much more varied diet than I would have if I'd stayed a meat eater.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJMV6neT0dsiwD1VrfWTqnPpeHUSN4Sufnm39xBX3NYZ1nZwpPaQ)
My idea of heaven. I respect the idea of why some people see the industry as cruel but I could not give up my steak.
Are two vegetarians allowed to marry each other...?
They shouldn't be. It's not normal. Down with that sort of thing.
Quote from: general_lee on June 19, 2015, 02:15:08 PM
Half of me wants to ridicule you, the other half is saying fair play.
I don't know how you do it, I love meat. I try to eat healthy so I try to avoid a lot of stuff and stick to white meats and fish. The odd time though I will pig out with a fry or steak and chips.
Do you never get tempted..?
No to be honest, The other half is a meatie. I'd occasionally cook her the odd bacon buddy, never been tempted to have bite.
As Jell says, change to a veggie diet encourages a much more varied diet.
Its much easier than to do than people think it is.
Eating out can be a bit of pain
Quote from: laoislad on June 19, 2015, 02:33:30 PM
Each to their own but I can't understand anyone who doesn't eat meat.
I'd eat steak for breakfast.
I regularly do
Quote from: pullhard on June 19, 2015, 03:16:36 PM
Quote from: general_lee on June 19, 2015, 02:15:08 PM
Half of me wants to ridicule you, the other half is saying fair play.
I don't know how you do it, I love meat. I try to eat healthy so I try to avoid a lot of stuff and stick to white meats and fish. The odd time though I will pig out with a fry or steak and chips.
Do you never get tempted..?
No to be honest, The other half is a meatie. I'd occasionally cook her the odd bacon buddy, never been tempted to have bite.
As Jell says, change to a veggie diet encourages a much more varied diet.
Its much easier than to do than people think it is.
Eating out can be a bit of pain
Asian food is the way to go for eating out. Lots of vegetarian choices in Indian, Chinese, Thai etc... without shortchanging the carnivores. Italian and Mexican are good options in the same way.
Asian food is the way to go for eating out. Lots of vegetarian choices in Indian, Chinese, Thai etc... without shortchanging the carnivores. Italian and Mexican are good options in the same way.
[/quote]
AGREE +1
While some on here could eat steak for breakie, I regularly have curry for breakfast :)
As I get older I make smarter choices about food. Less red meat (maybe once a week now), more chicken and turkey and more veggies. I'm more or less dairy free and slowly weaning off wheat and grains. I've cut salt to a minimum and take very little extra sugar. I know the benefits of going vegetarian/vegan - i just would miss a good steak or sausages wrapped in bacon too much. I've learned I can't go cold turkey on any food source - but I can make smarter choices about portions and frequency.
Fair play on going full veggie - you'll gain extra years from it I'm sure!
There is cruelty in almost every industry, doesn't stop you wearing clothes, or spending money. Pile of shite IMO.
Went veg a few times when travelling because of food cleanliness issues. Saw it as a type of necessity at that time but it didn't save me from getting sick and left me feeling weak and lethargic so I probably won't do it again.
Think much of it is misguided especially the health stuff especially now that fat (especially animal fat) is no longer the enemy ....its actually sugar, which comes from a plant. I also think that many plant foods are bad for our digestive system as they take so long to process. For example compare how long it takes your stomach to process a leaf of lettuce compared to a lump of steak, now compare their nutritional value, the steak is way better for you.
Also India has a very high proportion of veggies and it has a lot of mineral deficiency diseases, like rickets and so on. Not necessarily the only factor of course. Of course there is also diseases like Scurvy which are caused by lack of fruit however all meat diets never have scurvy as a problem
Also meat has been the main source of energy for us since b4 we were even humans there is not one thing that you eat is better you than better for you than meat...the clue is in the taste, what tastes better than a lump of steak or some pork fat? hell have you ever tasted chips cooked in lard vs veg oil? they are like night and day.
Ethical issues is something for yourself I suppose, don't really understand it myself considering human history has centered around hunting until the advent of civilisation when it centered around farming.
In saying all of that Im not even saying don't be veggie, the only thing I would say is don't eat processed food.
Could never do it.
I'd kill someone for a rasher of bacon.
The wife was a veggie when I first met her. She came over from the States with the oul hippy attitude, soon knocked that out of her and she chowing down on the old cookstowns like they were going out of fashion! (no comment needed)
Been putting more veggies into the diet recently, but still need the fish, chicken and red meat to keep myself balanced at least. Steak, spinach and oatmeal for breakfast.
Have been paying a little extra for wild caught salmon and tuna, non hormone pumped chicken, and grass fed beef.
I've been eating a very balanced, yet strict diet for the last 16 days and am down 9lbs.
Quote from: Puckoon on June 19, 2015, 05:11:40 PM
Been putting more veggies into the diet recently, but still need the fish, chicken and red meat to keep myself balanced at least. Steak, spinach and oatmeal for breakfast.
Have been paying a little extra for wild caught salmon and tuna, non hormone pumped chicken, and grass fed beef.
I've been eating a very balanced, yet strict diet for the last 16 days and am down 9lbs.
If you lived in a civilised country, all of the beef would be grass fed.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 19, 2015, 05:11:40 PM
Been putting more veggies into the diet recently, but still need the fish, chicken and red meat to keep myself balanced at least. Steak, spinach and oatmeal for breakfast.
Have been paying a little extra for wild caught salmon and tuna, non hormone pumped chicken, and grass fed beef.
I've been eating a very balanced, yet strict diet for the last 16 days and am down 9lbs.
If you lived in a civilised country, all of the beef would be grass fed.
All American beef is grass fed until its goes for finishing...same as Irish beef
Unless you live in Argentine or South Africa or somewhere you will have great dificulty getting beef that is exclusively grass feed
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 19, 2015, 05:32:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 19, 2015, 05:11:40 PM
Been putting more veggies into the diet recently, but still need the fish, chicken and red meat to keep myself balanced at least. Steak, spinach and oatmeal for breakfast.
Have been paying a little extra for wild caught salmon and tuna, non hormone pumped chicken, and grass fed beef.
I've been eating a very balanced, yet strict diet for the last 16 days and am down 9lbs.
If you lived in a civilised country, all of the beef would be grass fed.
All American beef is grass fed until its goes for finishing...same as Irish beef
Unless you live in Argentine or South Africa or somewhere you will have great dificulty getting beef that is exclusively grass feed
Irish beef eats some grass and some grain, US beef does also, but the proportions are different.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2015, 06:12:53 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 19, 2015, 05:32:30 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 19, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 19, 2015, 05:11:40 PM
Been putting more veggies into the diet recently, but still need the fish, chicken and red meat to keep myself balanced at least. Steak, spinach and oatmeal for breakfast.
Have been paying a little extra for wild caught salmon and tuna, non hormone pumped chicken, and grass fed beef.
I've been eating a very balanced, yet strict diet for the last 16 days and am down 9lbs.
If you lived in a civilised country, all of the beef would be grass fed.
All American beef is grass fed until its goes for finishing...same as Irish beef
Unless you live in Argentine or South Africa or somewhere you will have great difficulty getting beef that is exclusively grass feed
Irish beef eats some grass and some grain, US beef does also, but the proportions are different.
That might be true but the point is neither are exclusively grass fed. In fact much American beef is ranched so they consume wild natural grass unlike in Ireland where much of the grass is grass is pumped up with artificial fertilizer.
Overall tho Irish beef is probably better considering the use of growth hormones. Would be hard to differentiate in taste tho in my experience. However the wild beef in SA & Argentina tastes phenomenal.
Quote from: pullhard on June 19, 2015, 01:58:22 PM
Its been just over a year since I went Veggie. Curious to know if there are any other Veggies on the board?
I was massive meatie before turning veggie and had a big soft spot for chorizo.
Changed because of the horrible way in which meat is produced, cruel and horrible unethical. Meat is very unenvironmentally friendly.
Since turning I have never felt healthier, have reduced cholesterol and have lost weight.
Im also a vegetarian and have been for thirteen years, for the exact same reason as you stated. Was always a big meat eater up to that, until one lent i decided to give up white meat. After lent i decided not to go back to eating white meat and gave up red meat as well.
I get my protein from eggs, spinach, cheese etc (not vegan).
My diet plan is simple eat like a king in the morning. Eat like a queen in the middle of the day and eat like a popper at night. Usually in the evening I drink a nutria bullet shake. Which consists of super foods like broccoli mixed with fruit and omegas like chia seed. These give you and incredible lease of life.
Im now 41 and heading off to play hurling in indianapolis in the morning. I believe 90% of being "fairly" active is due to diet.
Now and then but less and less I have a taste for meat. Whole foods super market beside where I live sell non gmo substitute
meat and I will take that instead.
Every day I try to take vitamins (if I don't run out) especially B12 which I think we all should take very good for the heart.
My kids go to a montessorri school where they teach children what they are eating. I think thats the way it should be.
Quote from: general_lee on June 19, 2015, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: topcuppla on June 19, 2015, 02:25:52 PM
Probably more boys on here love the beef than those who don't.
youre top of the pile ye closet shirt lifter
Oh I see the way you took that comment now, each to his own, you go for it kid.
I am a vegetarian since my mature age of 15. No meat, eggs and something else I forget.
My shit sure smells sweet and even the guys on the cesspit emptier truck come out and double check that they are connected to the right hole in the ground.
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
I am a vegetarian since my mature age of 15. No meat, eggs and something else I forget.
My shit sure smells sweet and even the guys on the cesspit emptier truck come out and double check that they are connected to the right hole in the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7pWhXv4ZVE
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 19, 2015, 09:15:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
I am a vegetarian since my mature age of 15. No meat, eggs and something else I forget.
My shit sure smells sweet and even the guys on the cesspit emptier truck come out and double check that they are connected to the right hole in the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7pWhXv4ZVE
Surely you don't expect a man of my refined tastes to listen to that stuff.
Though I could extrapolate that the message you wanted to convey was that shít is shít no matter whose bum it drops out off?
If you had claimed that all hip hop sounds the same when coming out through the same loudspeaker, your opinion might have resonated in a way I could relate to.
Quote from: Main Street on June 20, 2015, 02:15:58 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 19, 2015, 09:15:35 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 19, 2015, 09:11:42 PM
I am a vegetarian since my mature age of 15. No meat, eggs and something else I forget.
My shit sure smells sweet and even the guys on the cesspit emptier truck come out and double check that they are connected to the right hole in the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7pWhXv4ZVE
Surely you don't expect a man of my refined tastes to listen to that stuff.
Though I could extrapolate that the message you wanted to convey was that shít is shít no matter whose bum it drops out off?
If you had claimed that all hip hop sounds the same when coming out through the same loudspeaker, your opinion might have resonated in a way I could relate to.
Hmm yeah well double entendre then ehh
Although I sorta liked Outkast
i never heard of Farney vegeterian tho I presume they ran you out of it years ago?
Meat-free for three-and-a-half years. Can't say I miss it in a big way. I get a bit nostalgic for bacon the odd time but that's about it.
I'd been steadily reducing my meat intake over the years for one reason or another. Actually went veggie before when I was a student but didn't stick it for very long because the meat substitutes weren't great back then and my culinary skills had been built around meaty dishes. When the mad cow thing came to light I cut back on the beef.
When I first came to the states I had to eat out non-stop for the first month or two because I was living out of a hotel, and my guts started hurting so I knew something was up. I found it harder to keep the weight off, but I found that if I went without meat for a few days my weight would settle and my guts would feel better. I read Fast Food Nation and that was enough to all but kill my habit of eating fast food.
I gradually just reduced meat out of my diet, but a turning point came when I was seeing a girl who was vegan. She introduced me to some new recipes which I adopted, and at that point I just went for it and tried the vegan thing. Had a little ceremony of emptying all animal products out of the fridge and freezer. When we broke up I resumed the yoghurt and cheese which I was fond of, but stuck to the almond milk which I found was nicer than dairy milk anyway. Since then I've cut back on cheese which I find hard to digest, and yoghurt which is all loaded with sugar anyway. I still like eggs and French toast for my breakfast a few times a week, so I'm not completely vegan by any means. If someone comes up with a decent egg substitute then I'll give it a go.
My most recent dietary adjustment is eliminating most processed foods. I live close to the shops so I might as well make use of that and eat fresh. The company I'm working for now has a good cafeteria that serves delicious fresh food every day. My guts feel a lot better for it, and I can't say I have any trouble with nutrition. As far as I know I don't have rickets and my muscles seem to get enough protein to recover from exercise. I eat out less than I used to, but when I do I actually find it helps to be a veggie because it takes less time to pick from the menu since there's only a handful of options, unless you're in a vegetarian restaurant.
If I still lived in Europe I might have been slower to kick the meat habit, but the food supply here in the states is a different story. In the UK it's the supermarkets that call the shots, but here it's the food producers that have all the congressmen bought, so I just don't trust them. And if you drive by that enormous cattle feed lot by Interstate 5 on the way to LA, I'd be surprised if you ever ate beef again after the sight and the smell you get.
I've always been a bit queasy about the idea of killing animals for food. I know we had to in the early days of the species and it was a big factor in why we developed to be so dominant, but I think we've evolved to the point where we no longer need to eat animals. Our front teeth are good for chewing meat, but the molars at the back are good for grinding fruit and vegetables too. We can do both, we've always been adaptable. We understand a lot more now about where energy comes from and how nutrition works. Plus there's a huge environmental impact with animal agriculture. When sunlight's converted to nutrients in the plant, it's more efficient to eat the plant and get the energy direct than running plants through an animal for years to produce meat. In hunter-gatherer days you'd burn x number of calories chasing down your prey and exhausting it, get y calories from eating it, and come out ahead by z calories, so that made a lot of sense. The agricultural age changed all that though, and the industrial age has changed it again. With the way we've developed now and when you've got this many people in the world and all these animals using up so many resources to keep them fed, that's causing huge damage in terms of waste disposal, greenhouse gas emissions and more.
I could see vegetarianism becoming more common as time goes on, we might even evolve to the point where we stop eating meat altogether. But I'm certainly not going to berate anyone else's dietary choices, if people want to give up meat it's a decision they can only come to themselves. And I'm not going to make sweeping generalizations about the personality of meat eaters based on the ones I've met. Why would anyone be stupid enough to do that?
Eammon first off I would never want to judge your personality based on what your diet. Although I live beside a vegan restaurant and hate the sight of the hipster types that go there, with their prius cars and alternative looks, its kinda hard not to put them in a box where vegetarianism isn't just part of their fashionable self projection. Anyway I probably wont even notice them if they didnt keep taking a parking space outside my house!
Anyway its the ideology behind it that I can't get my head around. Now first off I am willing to let some cultures work away with whatever they are doing because I don't understand it. Take Indian culture for example they don't want to eat meat because of religious reasons, as it is possible that a animal may be a reincarnation of someone that died. Weirdly I am open to this reasoning as they have been doing it for thousands of years and who am I to start questioning a culture that I don't fully understand?
However the rise in popularity in vegetarianism in Western culture I feel I am better placed to question, as it has risen out of my culture and tradition. It seems there is two trains of thought, first one seems to be that its healthier. Now there is little or no evidence of this, and only after two or three generations of vegeterians pass will we be in a position to judge this. The logic that its healtier seems to be based on the fact we are told foods like fruit and veg are good for you so if you eat them all the time that must be even better for you. Sorry that just aint good enough evidence for me, it ignores the fact that the most nutrition rich foods are meats and fishes.
The second train of thought seems to be from an animal welfare point of view, which I find hard to rationalise also. Now while it is true that there are animals which we have emotional attachments to in western culture like dogs and horses and so on that we never eat. However it seems like that standard has been taken and applied to all animals no matter whether we traditionally ate them or not. In saying that I dont believe in bad treatment of animals that we do eat, it totally spoils the taste for a start. I've been up the 5 and seen those feed lots also, not pleasant I agree but never considered becoming veggie because of it. I would also take you up on the milk, the milk in America is rotten, ultra pasteurized rubbish coming from maize fed cows that never see the light of day, its night and day between that and Irish milk. Also it occurred to me that most Americans have never tasted cream, real proper whipping cream, the only thing they have had is that crap you get on top of your starbucks which has no taste whatsoever.
There is another train of thought emerging which you touched on that the planet is not going to be able to feed us all and I think you and I have been through this before. Which I find very hard to swallow considering the fact that countries India, China and Bangladesh are net exporters of food.
I am a great believer in tradition and that unless there is some other logical reasoning stick with what your traditions are so I see no reason why to change from the traditional diet I was feed with unless there is some proper scientific evidence.
On the other hand food fashions and marketing are a great example of how America has been completely shafted by not sticking to their traditions. Nutritionists told the public they should eat this and that and food marketing told them the same thing, the public followed suit believing that their diets were old fashioned, bad for you and boring. However after a generation or two the nutritionists found that the processed foods they championed were lacking in the nutrients that the traditional diets had and they began to fortify the processed foods with vitamins and minerals, they also found that processed vegetable fat was killing people. And in the past few years regarding the obesity epidemic they have also found that animal fats cause little or no harm in this regard and almost all the problems comes from sugar...another plant. Anyway the point that I am trying to make is that the reason for America's fad/fashionable diets is a reaction to the loss of their traditional diets and coerced into unhealthy industrial diets.
You said you became vegetarian because you eat out for a month every meal. That doesn't make sense, you just should have stopped eating out, eating out in America is a processed fats and sugar extravagansa and that is more than likely what was causing your digestive system to react poorly. A more logical action might be to stop eating sugar and processed fats Also your point on the hunter-gathers expending more energy, may be true however the calories in does not equal calories out especially when you are eating meat which has zero sugar.
With all that said tho the biggest problem I have with veggie food is that its bland and disgusting, I am sure you could used to it but for me taste experience is one of the great things about life and would find it hard to give that up for misplaced reasoning
Now with all that said tho, I don't think vegetarianism is necessarily bad or unhealthy but we will find out in a few generations as it whether it is or not, I'm just not willing to be part of an experiment with flawed reasoning.
I know that vegetables get sprayed with all sorts of pesticides and stuff, but I'd still rather take my chances with them than with meat. The chances of fecal contamination in meat are pretty high, not so much with vegetables because overworked and underpaid workers on a meat processing production line have to quickly separate the shit-containing guts from the muscle when they're processing meat, no so much when handling spinach.
I don't subscribe to the idea that we're running out of food, I'm well aware of our ability to innovate and keep ahead of demand. My environmental concern is with the effect on climate change. Meat-based agriculture is a huge contributor to greenhouse gases. If you bypass the meat and get your energy directly from the plant, you reduce greenhouse gas emissions as well as cutting out a lot of other pollution problems.
My view of animals has changed quite a bit in recent years. I used to ignore the suffering of animals, but I can't any longer. They say that pigs are as intelligent and capable of forming relationships with humans as dogs are, but whether it's through judging by their appearance or tradition or whatever, we aren't conditioned to think of them in the same way we think about dogs, cats and horses. Maybe it's because companion animals had other roles to play in history and they were more use to us alive, and they've gotten a pass as a result.
I don't subscribe to 'fad' diets either. In fact I've never 'gone on a diet.' I make subtle adjustments to my eating habits, which is much easier to keep up.
The big sugar problem in America right now is refined sugar, specifically High Fructose Corn Syrup. This is part of the same problem of the lobbying power of Big Agriculture that has politicians in its pocket. If the corn farmers of Iowa had less political clout thanks to that state's early start in the presidential election cycle, less of the food supply would be infested with that garbage. The best way to avoid it is to avoid processed foods, meat-containing or otherwise. Refined sugar is not a vegetarian problem, it's a processed foods problem.
If you think vegetarian food doesn't taste good then the problem isn't that you've been trying vegetarian food. You've simply been trying food that doesn't taste good. There's plenty of meat-based dishes that I never liked, God knows I was always repulsed by fish. I you tried some of my sister's cooking (vegetarian since the 80s) you'd change your mind on that point. She sometimes cooks vegetarian dishes and feeds them to unsuspecting carnivores who don't know they're eating a meat-free meal until she tells them. Her stuff is delicious, and there's plenty of vegetarian restaurants that serve great-tasting food that's worth eating for its flavor in its own right.
QuoteYou said you became vegetarian because you eat out for a month every meal.
Pardon?
Don't agree with you regarding the pigs, just cause they might be able to form relationships with humans doesnt change their current relationship which is that we have been farming eating them for milenia, that they taste good, constitute a good portion of our diet and are good for us. Wouldn't like to tell your theory to a neighbour of mine who got his boyo bit of by a boar years ago!
Comparing pesticides which are guaranteed to be on non-organic plant foods with the remote chance of fecal matter getting on meat is not a fair comparison. Spinach?? come on...I eat a lot of it but its best described as a herb or spice....there to deflect and enhance flavours, its got no protein fat or starch so its practically useless to us nutritionally apart from the minerals and vitmains, which you could get anyway from meat. BTW I highly recommend cooking it in pork fat, delicious
Didnt you say eating out for a month started you on the veggism? Also just for clarification I was including all non traditional diets in the fad diets category which include veggie and vegan diets, probably could throw in the mainstream American diet to that as well.
True I may have been eating the wrong veggie meals or whatever but I have eaten various meals that veggies have who said it was good and well to put it simply they werent. Although TBF I often have that problem in America with all meals, some of the shit they eat here is just rotten! Not that I dont think that its possible to make good veggie meals or that I haven't had any, but my point is that it is harder to make veggie food taste good and a very good veggie meal will never compare to a very good nonveg one. You cant conjure up the taste of lamb for example, or something something as refined as foie gras. Here's another one, roast potatoes in goose fat, absolutely divine.
Its true that refined corn sugars may be worse for us than cane or beet sugar but too much sugar in any form helps cause dietary diseases.
Your right tho about the global warming, no doubt that beef farming emits more greenhouse gases and the science is starting to point very firmly towards their contribution to global warming. Tho I don't think farming is the main culprit, Im sure you havent given up driving your car for example.... but thats another debate.
Here's the deal Eamonn I have no problem with you doing it, its just I cant see the reasoning in it, but perhaps the crucial factor is I wouldn't be prepared to give up an experience that I love for it.
I'd imagine most people are vegetarians because they are uncomfortable with the cruelty of modern farming practices and it has very little to do with being healthy. It's not hard to understand why someone would want to be a vegetarian though to someone who is used to a carnivorour diet (me) I think it would be a struggle to give up eating meat completely.
What I read OmaghJoe, is a shock exclusive, a tyrone man is a carnivore.
That he has little awareness of cuisine outside his tradition, possibly has little culinary imagination and competence.
That he is compliant to his judean- christian tradition and evidently hasn't a clue about Hinduism, honestly admits he hasn't a clue.
yet still expresses some silly schoolyard prejudiced myths about Hindu spiritual beliefs re vegetarianism and reincarnation.
That you are deficient in the scientific matters, that you doggedly hold onto your belief system and refuse to change ways.
Is that close to the mark ;D
Quote from: Main Street on June 21, 2015, 09:56:27 AM
What I read OmaghJoe, is a shock exclusive, a tyrone man is a carnivore.
That he has little awareness of cuisine outside his tradition, possibly has little culinary imagination and competence.
That he is compliant to his judean- christian tradition and evidently hasn't a clue about Hinduism, honestly admits he hasn't a clue.
yet still expresses some silly schoolyard prejudiced myths about Hindu spiritual beliefs re vegetarianism and reincarnation.
That you are deficient in the scientific matters, that you doggedly hold onto your belief system and refuse to change ways.
Is that close to the mark ;D
Do you not think it ironic that you a vegetarian is calling me out on doggedly holding onto a belief system? I eat all types of cuisines including vegetarian. I often cook from other ethnic cuisines but I mostly prefer to eat and cook from my own.
I am not entirely sure what religion has to do with this, I merely pointed out that in Indian culture vegetarianism is observed and I don't fully understand it so I wouldn't wish to cast judgement on it, unlike its emergence in Western Culture where I feel I am better placed to examine the rational behind it. Regarding the statement linking vegetarianism to reincarnation I was specifically told this by a Hindu, that the killing and eating of animals is considered bad for your soul or karma because they could be the reincarnation of their ancestors. However if you wish to enlighten us further go ahead..
Although just to update you the Judeo/Christian term has been superseded by Abrahamic these days, not that I was talking about that umbrella term when talking about tradition. I was refering about the specific tradition that was handed down to me from my parents, not Abrahamic, Christian, Western, Irish or even Tyrone, although it could be argued that it falls into all of these.
If you wish to address any of my actual points on vegetarianism tho go ahead, and if you wish to start a new thread about religion tho you are free to do that also.
I am well convinced that you were run out of Monaghan along time ago tho eh?......? Maybe your hanging around a certain island in Fermanagh? ;)
Yikes Joe, you have a serious issue with veggies. Was that car parking space that important that you still bear such a grudge? Are you a closet Veggie? You make some fairly swiping statements and come across as closed minded (I'm sure you not), backed up by hearsay and pseudo science; do you work for the Daily Mail?
I was hoping this thread could shed a bit of light on the topic, but this is not productive at this point.
Think you are right E thanks your insight and philosophy behind you vegetarianism
P.s. your sis sounds like an amazing chef!
Listen lads I am only trying to ask a few questions behind the thinking behind it, as you can probably tell from my posts I am greatly interested in this subject area of food and diet and I feel that it is a subject area that needs questions to be asked off, all diets that is! This thread is a public forum on vegetarianism and just because I am asking questions into the logic of it does not mean I do not like veggies.
I have no grudge against veggies, indeed I have a great many friends who are, however when I ask questions about it they get defensive almost like I have questioned their right to exist. That's fine tho because they don't overly advertise the fact that they are veggies so I usually let the subject lie, although its hard not to when food comes up. This however is a public forum on vegetarianism so I feel I should be able to ask questions and get some answers on it without people becoming defensive.
True Main St and I have got into a little spat but that's more about personalities and a bit of slagging no need to take that seriously in regards to the questions I have asked about vegetarianism.
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
See what I mean?
Don't get me wrong. I'm sure you're dead on and not like that. Sure it's only my experience.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Well bloody said.
See you vegetarians - you'll be responsible for the destruction of the human race. We only got to this point by ruling the roost over other animals. If we start having a conscience about chewing on meat then before you know it you'll have gangs of pigs and cows roaming the neighbourhood eating you. It's survival of the fittest on this spinning rock and we're only on it for a while and you might as well be king dick and dominate other animals. You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless. Pigs, cattle, fish, birds - they all know it. You know it. As soon as they get a whiff that we're having doubts about devouring them they'll eat us. Remember the dinosaurs etc.
And by the way, eating meat makes you stronger and fitter. Any vegetarians I know look sick and are dicks.
If vegetarians are all assholes and all meat eaters are dead on, this isn't a very representative thread. Is it? So far all the abuse has been coming our way. I've yet to lecture anyone with the "meat is murder" talking point, and yet I'm being made to feel like I have to defend my dietary choice or my view of animals.
The missus is a vegetarian. I love steak and bacon like there's no tomorrow. But one thing I notice is how defensive people get when herself says she is a vegetarian, many ready to argue with her. She does it for humane reasons and does not wear leather in any way (bag, shoes, etc). But does nor rub it in any faces. Still there's always someone ready to argue, often a family member. "Never saw a healthy vegetarian" etc. Then you have the ones who will stick a fork of meat in her face. All great craic of course. Now where's my Moby records...
Quote from: pullhard on June 21, 2015, 08:12:16 PM
Yikes Joe, you have a serious issue with veggies. Was that car parking space that important that you still bear such a grudge? Are you a closet Veggie? You make some fairly swiping statements and come across as closed minded (I'm sure you not), backed up by hearsay and pseudo science; do you work for the Daily Mail?
Huh? Grudge? Sorry if I came off the wrong way but I defo don't, just want to get into the rationale behind it
Swiping or sweeping statements? Which ones?
Closed minded? Please explain...
What exactly is the hearsay and Psuedo science?
Your post is coming off as a bit of a personal broadside pullhard
Quote from: Olly on June 21, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Well bloody said.
See you vegetarians - you'll be responsible for the destruction of the human race. We only got to this point by ruling the roost over other animals. If we start having a conscience about chewing on meat then before you know it you'll have gangs of pigs and cows roaming the neighbourhood eating you. It's survival of the fittest on this spinning rock and we're only on it for a while and you might as well be king dick and dominate other animals. You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless. Pigs, cattle, fish, birds - they all know it. You know it. As soon as they get a whiff that we're having doubts about devouring them they'll eat us. Remember the dinosaurs etc.
And by the way, eating meat makes you stronger and fitter. Any vegetarians I know look sick and are dicks.
This is one of ths funniest posts ever put on this board
Quote from: Nigel White on October 14, 2015, 11:44:33 PM
Quote from: Olly on June 21, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Well bloody said.
See you vegetarians - you'll be responsible for the destruction of the human race. We only got to this point by ruling the roost over other animals. If we start having a conscience about chewing on meat then before you know it you'll have gangs of pigs and cows roaming the neighbourhood eating you. It's survival of the fittest on this spinning rock and we're only on it for a while and you might as well be king dick and dominate other animals. You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless. Pigs, cattle, fish, birds - they all know it. You know it. As soon as they get a whiff that we're having doubts about devouring them they'll eat us. Remember the dinosaurs etc.
And by the way, eating meat makes you stronger and fitter. Any vegetarians I know look sick and are dicks.
This is one of ths funniest posts ever put on this board
PMSL, I love this part most of all "
You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless.Brilliant stuff. Well done Shane.
Quote from: Olly on June 21, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Well bloody said.
See you vegetarians - you'll be responsible for the destruction of the human race. We only got to this point by ruling the roost over other animals. If we start having a conscience about chewing on meat then before you know it you'll have gangs of pigs and cows roaming the neighbourhood eating you. It's survival of the fittest on this spinning rock and we're only on it for a while and you might as well be king dick and dominate other animals. You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless. Pigs, cattle, fish, birds - they all know it. You know it. As soon as they get a whiff that we're having doubts about devouring them they'll eat us. Remember the dinosaurs etc.
And by the way, eating meat makes you stronger and fitter. Any vegetarians I know look sick and are dicks.
I am sure youi have eaten plenty of meat in your time Shane/Olly.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 22, 2015, 12:34:22 AM
If vegetarians are all assholes and all meat eaters are dead on, this isn't a very representative thread. Is it? So far all the abuse has been coming our way. I've yet to lecture anyone with the "meat is murder" talking point, and yet I'm being made to feel like I have to defend my dietary choice or my view of animals.
You do not have anything to defend and there is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian.
My eldest has been one since she was three, when we asked her why she did not want to eat meat she declared" if God wanted us to eat meat, he would have grown it on trees".
I am amazed that some eejits have issues with you being a vegetarian, the mind boggles.
Quote from: Olly on June 21, 2015, 11:33:17 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on June 21, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Il admit personality has alalot to do with it. Any veggies I know just happen to be self righteous, groovy, hippy fcukwits that love to advertise it or pontificafe about it. They be full of shit usually and think they occupy some sort of higher stream of thought.
Well bloody said.
See you vegetarians - you'll be responsible for the destruction of the human race. We only got to this point by ruling the roost over other animals. If we start having a conscience about chewing on meat then before you know it you'll have gangs of pigs and cows roaming the neighbourhood eating you. It's survival of the fittest on this spinning rock and we're only on it for a while and you might as well be king dick and dominate other animals. You people make me sick. You sit there in your houses with your wifi and the only reason you have those luxuries is because over thousands and maybe hundreds of years we got to the top of the food chain by being ruthless. Pigs, cattle, fish, birds - they all know it. You know it. As soon as they get a whiff that we're having doubts about devouring them they'll eat us. Remember the dinosaurs etc.
And by the way, eating meat makes you stronger and fitter. Any vegetarians I know look sick and are dicks.
Good man Olly. Which particular spinning rock are you on as a matter of interest?
:o :o
Seen Mary Robinson is telling the world to turn Vegan, inc developing countries
Seriously irresponsible...Italy just made it a crime for children as they had a spate of undernourished vegan children needing hospital treatment
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
Millions of Indians are vegan and they get on fine
Dairy based diets are not natural in huge swathes of the world
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
Millions of Indians are vegan and they get on fine
Dairy based diets are not natural in huge swathes of the world
Aye cos Indian is a case study for other countries when it comes to a well nourished population
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
Millions of Indians are vegan and they get on fine
Dairy based diets are not natural in huge swathes of the world
Aye cos Indian is a case study for other countries when it comes to a well nourished population
Japan would also work if you want OECD
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
Millions of Indians are vegan and they get on fine
Dairy based diets are not natural in huge swathes of the world
Aye cos Indian is a case study for other countries when it comes to a well nourished population
Japan would also work if you want OECD
Fish part of vegan diet now is it?
I've cut out red meat and may go further. Have been challenged to do the whole of November on a vegan diet. Would like to but not sure I could do it. Anyone on here vegan?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 06:54:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 06:50:24 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:12:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 01, 2016, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on September 30, 2016, 09:06:34 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 08:59:45 PM
Did they actually make it a crime or was it just under discussion?
Plenty of kids are raised vegan/vegetarian with no problems. Could have been parents who didn't know enough about nutrition on a vegan diet in the cases in Italy.
http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers (http://www.eatright.org/resource/food/nutrition/vegetarian-and-special-diets/feeding-vegetarian-and-vegan-infants-and-toddlers)
Yeah looks like your right its still waiting to pass.
No one really knows enough about nutrition to allow a child to go vegan, and certainly not in the developing world
Millions of Indians are vegan and they get on fine
Dairy based diets are not natural in huge swathes of the world
Aye cos Indian is a case study for other countries when it comes to a well nourished population
Japan would also work if you want OECD
Fish part of vegan diet now is it?
It's not a meat and dairy culture and not everyone eats fish
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 01, 2016, 02:19:56 PM
I've cut out red meat and may go further. Have been challenged to do the whole of November on a vegan diet. Would like to but not sure I could do it. Anyone on here vegan?
Mostly vegan the past two years. Occasional slice of pizza or non-vegan chocolate nowadays are my only cheats (and Guinness). Been a vegetarian over 20 years. Missed meat a fair bit most of the first year, but never since. Learn to cook, find some restaurants with good vegetarian options (asian restaurants are best imo for this) and you won't look back.
If you want to give it a shot, I would advise doing it gradually. Allow yourself dairy/eggs, to begin with, say. If you try to go completely vegan from a meat-based diet, you might find it too much of a change at the start.
As for that Italian nonsense, I've a nipper who's a veggie too, and he's about twice the size of the rest of the kids his age. There's plenty of malnutrition cases involving meat eating parents, and no-one is trying to legally ban feeding meat to kids as a result.
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 02, 2016, 03:10:05 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 01, 2016, 02:19:56 PM
I've cut out red meat and may go further. Have been challenged to do the whole of November on a vegan diet. Would like to but not sure I could do it. Anyone on here vegan?
Mostly vegan the past two years. Occasional slice of pizza or non-vegan chocolate nowadays are my only cheats (and Guinness). Been a vegetarian over 20 years. Missed meat a fair bit most of the first year, but never since. Learn to cook, find some restaurants with good vegetarian options (asian restaurants are best imo for this) and you won't look back.
If you want to give it a shot, I would advise doing it gradually. Allow yourself dairy/eggs, to begin with, say. If you try to go completely vegan from a meat-based diet, you might find it too much of a change at the start.
As for that Italian nonsense, I've a nipper who's a veggie too, and he's about twice the size of the rest of the kids his age. There's plenty of malnutrition cases involving meat eating parents, and no-one is trying to legally ban feeding meat to kids as a result.
Cheers mate. The challenge is for November so I've a month to cut the rest of the animal products out gradually.
I'm a veteran vegetarian.
I had a 2 month stint as a vegan when my broken leg was in a cast. Inside the cast, the leg would get hot, itchy and swelled to discomfort levels.
It all boiled down to a reaction to milk / milk products. I immediately cut out all milk, cheese, yoghurts, butter, chocolates, went the whole hog and took on an adversity towards any sugar and switched to fresh juices, algaes, fatty acids, soy and nut drinks, salads, cold pressed oils, breads any grains.
Daily exercise was energy expended using the crutches to move around. After one month the kilos dropped off to 'slim' levels, unbelievable.
Being 192cm tall, I went from 90/95 kg to about 75 -78kg 36" waist to 34" Not that that mattered to me but the raised energy levels /stamina were marked.
I suppose it was a relatively easy dietary choice as there was an immediate painful adverse reaction if I didn't follow the vegan path.
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
What politician is that now? Let me know so I follow him on twitter ::)
The only thing I subscribe to is that a vegan diet is bad for children and not suitable for adults either without like the article said, which you posted.
Animal products have been our most basic food stuff for millennia taking them out of our diets unsurprisingly leads to nutritional problems
Or do you disagree with nutrition experts?
Dont get me wrong if your doing it for "ethical" reasons more power to ye but lets not try and hide behind this "better for health" thing.
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
What politician is that now? Let me know so I follow him on twitter ::)
The only thing I subscribe to is that a vegan diet is bad for children and not suitable for adults either without like the article said, which you posted.
Animal products have been our most basic food stuff for millennia taking them out of our diets unsurprisingly leads to nutritional problems
Or do you disagree with nutrition experts?
Dont get me wrong if your doing it for "ethical" reasons more power to ye but lets not try and hide behind this "better for health" thing.
I wouldn't get too carried away with the aul meat. Them nutritional experts you are so fond off would tell you to limit your intake especially the red stuff. Zero processed meant and no more than 260g of the unprocessed stuff a week appears to be the best advice. Hardly a ringing endorsement
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 09:46:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
What politician is that now? Let me know so I follow him on twitter ::)
The only thing I subscribe to is that a vegan diet is bad for children and not suitable for adults either without like the article said, which you posted.
Animal products have been our most basic food stuff for millennia taking them out of our diets unsurprisingly leads to nutritional problems
Or do you disagree with nutrition experts?
Dont get me wrong if your doing it for "ethical" reasons more power to ye but lets not try and hide behind this "better for health" thing.
I wouldn't get too carried away with the aul meat. Them nutritional experts you are so fond off would tell you to limit your intake especially the red stuff. Zero processed meant and no more than 260g of the unprocessed stuff a week appears to be the best advice. Hardly a ringing endorsement
Yeah but is starting to come full circle now. Many nutritionists are advocating now the paleo diet, cures a whole range of conditions cos our gut react so badly to so many plants
Is this a consensus view? We can all get a report pointing to a stance but the quality and informed critical reception of report is key.
The biggest long term threat to the meat industry is economics. Not morals and not nutrition (although they are both real threats)
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You do get the difference between a single report that doesn't have the support of the experts and a peer reviewed report that passes the test? You do see that don't you?
You do get the difference between an independent report and one funded by a vested interest? Hence the need for peer review and consensus?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
I do.
You believe that with a growing world population, increasing aspiration in the developing world, a growing awareness of the environmental damage of turning over greater amounts of land to food production, greater awareness of the damage cause of the chemical tricks that support industrial farming that land will be used for the least efficient means of food production (in acreage terms) without an appropriate economic charge being applied to that land use?
Bring on your rationale?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
What politician is that now? Let me know so I follow him on twitter ::)
The only thing I subscribe to is that a vegan diet is bad for children and not suitable for adults either without like the article said, which you posted.
Animal products have been our most basic food stuff for millennia taking them out of our diets unsurprisingly leads to nutritional problems
Or do you disagree with nutrition experts?
Dont get me wrong if your doing it for "ethical" reasons more power to ye but lets not try and hide behind this "better for health" thing.
Who's hiding??
The article I lnked, contained quotes from the president of the Italian Society of Food Science, in order to pour mild scorn on your reference to the italian crime of veganism.
The rest of the article was not germane to that point.
However he did NOT say a vegan diet is bad for children or not suitable for adults as you have claimed.
He said the vegan diet for children CAN be imbalanced, it can be imbalanced which means it can be imbalanced under certain circumstances.
He then says that a risk of deficiency in a vegan diet is relatively easy to overcome with with the addition of natural foods and/or supplements.
He believes a balanced diet could be extracted from portions of vegetables, yoghurts and fish.
That's his expert opinion.
I am not a practicing vegan, but if I were to impose a vegan diet on my children, either through my choice or their necessity, then a minimum amount of good research points to that a vegan can obtain a complete diet within the confines of a vegan diet.
The length of time you need to spend on that research (2 minutes for me) would also depend on already acquired experience.
if I was so inclined to do that research, then it would be centered on the weight of evidence to support the choice. In other words, i want to try this or something like this, how can i make it work. There is no scientifically proven diet.
If you want to eat pork then the Pork Association will inform you that eating porky the pig will do you the world of good and if you don't want to eat pork then PETA will inform you of just how good that choice is.
I'd put PETA on a par with the NRA. Just for the record.
Quote from: Main Street on October 04, 2016, 12:27:01 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 01, 2016, 01:30:15 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 30, 2016, 11:59:55 PM
I'll take the advice of nutrition experts on this one.
Like this one :)
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/ (http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/08/news/vietare_dieta_vegana_ai_figli_l_esperto_espone_a_carenze_e_a_rischi_-145616570/)
The Italian Society of Food Science rejecting Savino's (the reactionary Italian populist politician) assertions, with president Andrea Ghiselli telling La Repubblica that diets containing excessive sugar and fat were of greater concern than the risks of deficiency of a vegan diet.
Wouldn't disagree with that but rather amazingly your leaving out the main point of the article which is that Vegan diets are not suitable for children. ??? ??? ??? ???
The nutrition experts also tell us that they are not suitable for adults either and the diet has to be supplemented.
The main point I was making was the expert rebuttal to the nonsense hysteria about the dangers of a vegan diet by one loony politician, a hysteria which you had subscribed to.
What politician is that now? Let me know so I follow him on twitter ::)
The only thing I subscribe to is that a vegan diet is bad for children and not suitable for adults either without like the article said, which you posted.
Animal products have been our most basic food stuff for millennia taking them out of our diets unsurprisingly leads to nutritional problems
Or do you disagree with nutrition experts?
Dont get me wrong if your doing it for "ethical" reasons more power to ye but lets not try and hide behind this "better for health" thing.
Who's hiding??
The article I lnked, contained quotes from the president of the Italian Society of Food Science, in order to pour mild scorn on your reference to the italian crime of veganism.
The rest of the article was not germane to that point.
However he did NOT say a vegan diet is bad for children or not suitable for adults as you have claimed.
He said the vegan diet for children CAN be imbalanced, it can be imbalanced which means it can be imbalanced under certain circumstances.
He then says that a risk of deficiency in a vegan diet is relatively easy to overcome with with the addition of natural foods and/or supplements.
He believes a balanced diet could be extracted from portions of vegetables, yoghurts and fish.
That's his expert opinion.
I am not a practicing vegan, but if I were to impose a vegan diet on my children, either through my choice or their necessity, then a minimum amount of good research points to that a vegan can obtain a complete diet within the confines of a vegan diet.
The length of time you need to spend on that research (2 minutes for me) would also depend on already acquired experience.
if I was so inclined to do that research, then it would be centered on the weight of evidence to support the choice. In other words, i want to try this or something like this, how can i make it work. There is no scientifically proven diet.
If you want to eat pork then the Pork Association will inform you that eating porky the pig will do you the world of good and if you don't want to eat pork then PETA will inform you of just how good that choice is.
The article says a vegan diet exposes a child to deficiencies and these can be overcome by a professional, not by parents reading the internet. It would follow from that, that it would be unsafe to allow a child to be forced into a vegan diet by the general populace.
As you say there is no scientifically proved diet however something that is agreed upon is that the modern Western diet is not good for our health and as a general rule the further back in time we go the better our diet gets. And it turns out we came from an almost exclusive meat diet. And when people replicate this diet today a whole multitude of diseases fade away like diabetes, obesity, auto immune diseases, allergys. It flies in the face of conventional wisdom that if you eat fat you'll get fat, but its not the case as our body knows what to do with it as we have been eating it for a long time. Carbs and sugar on the other hand are so rare in natural foods that our body craves and stores it.
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 11:05:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You do get the difference between a single report that doesn't have the support of the experts and a peer reviewed report that passes the test? You do see that don't you?
You do get the difference between an independent report and one funded by a vested interest? Hence the need for peer review and consensus?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
I do.
You believe that with a growing world population, increasing aspiration in the developing world, a growing awareness of the environmental damage of turning over greater amounts of land to food production, greater awareness of the damage cause of the chemical tricks that support industrial farming that land will be used for the least efficient means of food production (in acreage terms) without an appropriate economic charge being applied to that land use?
Bring on your rationale?
Its still an appeal to popularity, do a bit of your own research and reach your own conclusions. Our spend your time finding out what the consensus diet is then, you will quickly find there's none, and that prior "consensus diets" brought a premature death to millions.
Slowing world population, and increased food market liberalisation should keep the market supply consistent. And yields should improve with a warmer wetter climate and higher C02 levels, and also with the more widespread use of improving agriculture methods. Overall these things should sustain food prices around their current level and will likely lower them.
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2016, 07:26:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 11:05:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You do get the difference between a single report that doesn't have the support of the experts and a peer reviewed report that passes the test? You do see that don't you?
You do get the difference between an independent report and one funded by a vested interest? Hence the need for peer review and consensus?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
I do.
You believe that with a growing world population, increasing aspiration in the developing world, a growing awareness of the environmental damage of turning over greater amounts of land to food production, greater awareness of the damage cause of the chemical tricks that support industrial farming that land will be used for the least efficient means of food production (in acreage terms) without an appropriate economic charge being applied to that land use?
Bring on your rationale?
Its still an appeal to popularity, do a bit of your own research and reach your own conclusions. Our spend your time finding out what the consensus diet is then, you will quickly find there's none, and that prior "consensus diets" brought a premature death to millions.
Slowing world population, and increased food market liberalisation should keep the market supply consistent. And yields should improve with a warmer wetter climate and higher C02 levels, and also with the more widespread use of improving agriculture methods. Overall these things should sustain food prices around their current level and will likely lower them.
Are you dismissing the whole idea of peer reviewing and of research that is supported by other research?
Tell me about the slowing world population? When will the world population fall? Surely that is the important thing? No reference to increased affluence and aspiration in the developing world?
Market liberalisation will keep the market supply consistent? Which foods and where?
Will planet earth be warmer and wetter? And more importantly will this to the right degree in the right location for food production? Important detail.
More importantly my point was the production of one type of food over another. Farmed meat is the least efficient form if food production in acreage terms. Tell me why you believe that differential in efficiency will not be factored into food pricing?
Quote from: LCohen on October 05, 2016, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2016, 07:26:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 11:05:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You do get the difference between a single report that doesn't have the support of the experts and a peer reviewed report that passes the test? You do see that don't you?
You do get the difference between an independent report and one funded by a vested interest? Hence the need for peer review and consensus?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
I do.
You believe that with a growing world population, increasing aspiration in the developing world, a growing awareness of the environmental damage of turning over greater amounts of land to food production, greater awareness of the damage cause of the chemical tricks that support industrial farming that land will be used for the least efficient means of food production (in acreage terms) without an appropriate economic charge being applied to that land use?
Bring on your rationale?
Its still an appeal to popularity, do a bit of your own research and reach your own conclusions. Our spend your time finding out what the consensus diet is then, you will quickly find there's none, and that prior "consensus diets" brought a premature death to millions.
Slowing world population, and increased food market liberalisation should keep the market supply consistent. And yields should improve with a warmer wetter climate and higher C02 levels, and also with the more widespread use of improving agriculture methods. Overall these things should sustain food prices around their current level and will likely lower them.
Are you dismissing the whole idea of peer reviewing and of research that is supported by other research?
Tell me about the slowing world population? When will the world population fall? Surely that is the important thing? No reference to increased affluence and aspiration in the developing world?
Market liberalisation will keep the market supply consistent? Which foods and where?
Will planet earth be warmer and wetter? And more importantly will this to the right degree in the right location for food production? Important detail.
More importantly my point was the production of one type of food over another. Farmed meat is the least efficient form if food production in acreage terms. Tell me why you believe that differential in efficiency will not be factored into food pricing?
This peer review thing is your little straw man Leonard, its about as relevant to this as my mention of Brexit. Hows your search for that consensus diet coming on?
Yeah the world population has been slowing for years, and during that time of rapid growth food has got cheaper.
As countries become more developed their production methods improve and become more efficent, this is also true for agriculture production.
All foods that are treated as commodity (so pretty much all foods) have had their markets liberalised and this looks set to continue unabated. Tho with Brexit, Trump and the rise of protectionism this could go into reverse. Also dont forget about all the land that it set aside each year
The global climate is set to become more favorable for crop growth, and new grazing pastures will likely become more viable in Australia, Sahel and Central Asia. In fact the high Co2 levels are already causing increased plant growth.
That differential is already worked into meat as its more expensive, that and the demand for it is higher.
Basically Leonard we dont know, but if I was a betting man I would follow the current trend and the conditions that created that trend look set to continue. Nothing you have mentioned would lead me to believe anything else. But its the future so who knows what could happen I was just asking you if you believe that meat will become economically nonviable in spite of the above?
By the way as Ive said before dont take my word for it on the paleo diet check it out for yourself
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 01, 2016, 02:19:56 PM
I've cut out red meat and may go further. Have been challenged to do the whole of November on a vegan diet. Would like to but not sure I could do it. Anyone on here vegan?
This is a good book for handy recipes, Tonto
https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fix-Vegan-Healthy-Homestyle-Minutes-ebook/dp/B005XXT0AK/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005XXT0AK&pd_rd_r=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48&pd_rd_w=RRtof&pd_rd_wg=7gqUy&psc=1&refRID=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48 (https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fix-Vegan-Healthy-Homestyle-Minutes-ebook/dp/B005XXT0AK/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005XXT0AK&pd_rd_r=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48&pd_rd_w=RRtof&pd_rd_wg=7gqUy&psc=1&refRID=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48)
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on October 06, 2016, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: tonto1888 on October 01, 2016, 02:19:56 PM
I've cut out red meat and may go further. Have been challenged to do the whole of November on a vegan diet. Would like to but not sure I could do it. Anyone on here vegan?
This is a good book for handy recipes, Tonto
https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fix-Vegan-Healthy-Homestyle-Minutes-ebook/dp/B005XXT0AK/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005XXT0AK&pd_rd_r=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48&pd_rd_w=RRtof&pd_rd_wg=7gqUy&psc=1&refRID=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48 (https://www.amazon.com/Quick-Fix-Vegan-Healthy-Homestyle-Minutes-ebook/dp/B005XXT0AK/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005XXT0AK&pd_rd_r=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48&pd_rd_w=RRtof&pd_rd_wg=7gqUy&psc=1&refRID=9QN0A85KJ8ZG91GS3F48)
cheers mate, i will see if i can get that
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 06, 2016, 06:18:49 AM
Quote from: LCohen on October 05, 2016, 10:27:56 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 04, 2016, 07:26:13 PM
Quote from: LCohen on October 03, 2016, 11:05:16 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
Consensus? Is that what governs whats correct or incorrect? (hooray for Brexit and soon to be pres Don they're correct choices cos their consensus ::)) I dont know if the nutritionists have had a vote on it. Check it out and decide for yourself.
You do get the difference between a single report that doesn't have the support of the experts and a peer reviewed report that passes the test? You do see that don't you?
You do get the difference between an independent report and one funded by a vested interest? Hence the need for peer review and consensus?
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 03, 2016, 10:52:15 PM
You believe that despite meat getting consistently cheaper over the past 50 years its going to get more expensive?
I do.
You believe that with a growing world population, increasing aspiration in the developing world, a growing awareness of the environmental damage of turning over greater amounts of land to food production, greater awareness of the damage cause of the chemical tricks that support industrial farming that land will be used for the least efficient means of food production (in acreage terms) without an appropriate economic charge being applied to that land use?
Bring on your rationale?
Its still an appeal to popularity, do a bit of your own research and reach your own conclusions. Our spend your time finding out what the consensus diet is then, you will quickly find there's none, and that prior "consensus diets" brought a premature death to millions.
Slowing world population, and increased food market liberalisation should keep the market supply consistent. And yields should improve with a warmer wetter climate and higher C02 levels, and also with the more widespread use of improving agriculture methods. Overall these things should sustain food prices around their current level and will likely lower them.
Are you dismissing the whole idea of peer reviewing and of research that is supported by other research?
Tell me about the slowing world population? When will the world population fall? Surely that is the important thing? No reference to increased affluence and aspiration in the developing world?
Market liberalisation will keep the market supply consistent? Which foods and where?
Will planet earth be warmer and wetter? And more importantly will this to the right degree in the right location for food production? Important detail.
More importantly my point was the production of one type of food over another. Farmed meat is the least efficient form if food production in acreage terms. Tell me why you believe that differential in efficiency will not be factored into food pricing?
This peer review thing is your little straw man Leonard, its about as relevant to this as my mention of Brexit. Hows your search for that consensus diet coming on?
Yeah the world population has been slowing for years, and during that time of rapid growth food has got cheaper.
As countries become more developed their production methods improve and become more efficent, this is also true for agriculture production.
All foods that are treated as commodity (so pretty much all foods) have had their markets liberalised and this looks set to continue unabated. Tho with Brexit, Trump and the rise of protectionism this could go into reverse. Also dont forget about all the land that it set aside each year
The global climate is set to become more favorable for crop growth, and new grazing pastures will likely become more viable in Australia, Sahel and Central Asia. In fact the high Co2 levels are already causing increased plant growth.
That differential is already worked into meat as its more expensive, that and the demand for it is higher.
Basically Leonard we dont know, but if I was a betting man I would follow the current trend and the conditions that created that trend look set to continue. Nothing you have mentioned would lead me to believe anything else. But its the future so who knows what could happen I was just asking you if you believe that meat will become economically nonviable in spite of the above?
By the way as Ive said before dont take my word for it on the paleo diet check it out for yourself
That wee drought might have an impact
Tonto if your doing it for ethical reasons fair enough, but if you are doing it for health reasons have a read of this...
https://zerocarbzen.com/
I challenge you to go zerocarb for December and tell us which you find is best...
Quote from: omaghjoe on October 06, 2016, 03:41:14 PM
Tonto if your doing it for ethical reasons fair enough, but if you are doing it for health reasons have a read of this...
https://zerocarbzen.com/
I challenge you to go zerocarb for December and tell us which you find is best...
not for health, Im fairly healthy although my diet does need tweaks. Itd be mostly for ethical reasons.
I am worried about protein, as I do a lot of weightlifting
Quote from: Puckoon on October 04, 2016, 12:59:27 AM
I'd put PETA on a par with the NRA. Just for the record.
You would be wrong to do so.