4 Language schools have closed their doors in the last few weeks in Dublin. It has always seemed pretty evident that these were being run by gangsters who are only marginally up the ladder from pimps in their human trafficking escapades.
I can't see how you're studying if you're working in Charlies II
Is it time in Ireland to have a serious debate about immigration and 1 year working holiday visas without the whole "you're being racist" accusation being thrown at anyone who questions it?
And apologies to anyone who opened this thread thinking it was about Carlow IT ;D
So what are you objecting to? Immigration or gangsters taking advantage?
This is only peripherally concerned with immigration. Ireland has a legitimate business providing educational services internationally and these gangsters are tarnishing that reputation and need to be stopped.
I didn't say I was objecting to anything - I said I think it's time for a reform of how immigration actually works in Ireland.
Surely there are some checks done on these schools to make sure that the "students" are actually attending and don't just disappear.
Anyone who's had a working visa to Australia knows the procedure. No entry prior to screening and even at that you only get one year. Renewals for further years depend on your attendance at the course.
The schools themselves need to be affiliated with proper language institutes.
Is it a school's responsibility to make sure a student attends? I don't remember UCD taking roll calls in the years I was there (might have helped me get out a wee bit faster if they had! :P)
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2014, 09:39:34 PM
Is it a school's responsibility to make sure a student attends? I don't remember UCD taking roll calls in the years I was there (might have helped me get out a wee bit faster if they had! :P)
You obviously weren't on a grant....
I think there is a certain responsibility of the school to ensure that their programs aren't being abused - unless the owners are themselves behind the ruse, as is the case with today's shenanagins with Millennium College.
The owners can't be contacted, I wonder why.
Quote from: J70 on May 16, 2014, 09:39:34 PM
Is it a school's responsibility to make sure a student attends? I don't remember UCD taking roll calls in the years I was there (might have helped me get out a wee bit faster if they had! :P)
Colleges have gone mad on roll calls recently. I remember even almost every lecture had a sign in sheet going around, nevermind the lab classes.
Quote from: Syferus on May 16, 2014, 10:16:52 PM
Colleges have gone mad on roll calls recently. I remember even almost every lecture had a sign in sheet going around, nevermind the lab classes.
We had a roll call in the morning and afternoon. I think if we didn't claim the grant it went to the college's bank account...
UUJ.
St. Jarlath's College
Quote from: foxcommander on May 16, 2014, 09:09:34 PM
Is it time in Ireland to have a serious debate about immigration and 1 year working holiday visas without the whole "you're being racist" accusation being thrown at anyone who questions it?
So what is your view on immigration?
IMO
1.We need a green card system to control immigration before we are in the sihte like England with black market workers and unscrupulous businessmen
( with pseudo colleges as a front to enable foreign kids to come and work and exploit them)
2.And/or We need to address eligibility for benefits
3?We need to create a quality assurance/accreditation system for certain industries - such as construction - something akin to the safe pass system for health and safety
Only this accreditation requires a candidate to pass a required standard
We need to apply 2&3 for Irish nationals as well as any foreign immigrants
A green card system only expands the work already being done here where companies can import required workers where skill shortages apply - eg computer programming
The fake college lark is rampant in England and obv the founders of such colleges spotted the opportunity here are most of these businessmen are British based
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 16, 2014, 09:09:34 PM
Is it time in Ireland to have a serious debate about immigration and 1 year working holiday visas without the whole "you're being racist" accusation being thrown at anyone who questions it?
So what is your view on immigration?
fairly straightforward.
If you are in a country illegally then you should be turfed out immediately. No appeals etc.
No benefits for minimum 1 year, you come to work if you get a visa. If it runs out tough - you gotta go.
Throwing citizenship around like confetti these days. Spongers galore around who shouldn't be in the country taking the piss.
Quote from: foxcommander on May 17, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 02:21:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 16, 2014, 09:09:34 PM
Is it time in Ireland to have a serious debate about immigration and 1 year working holiday visas without the whole "you're being racist" accusation being thrown at anyone who questions it?
So what is your view on immigration?
fairly straightforward.
If you are in a country illegally then you should be turfed out immediately. No appeals etc.
No benefits for minimum 1 year, you come to work if you get a visa. If it runs out tough - you gotta go.
Throwing citizenship around like confetti these days. Spongers galore around who shouldn't be in the country taking the piss.
If the discussion is about illegal aliens then I agree they should be dealt with. However as members of the EU we signed up to certain rules on migration. EU citizens are neither illegal in Ireland, nor receiving citizenship. They are also entitled to much the same as we are. So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?
Those who claim social welfare on both sides of the border are as big a problem as anyone imho.
To be fair muppet I don't see anywhere that foxcommander mentioned anything about eu citizens!!
Though some take the p**s a bit - no more than our own native dole-ies!
Personally I'd be reducing benefits and where possible putting the able bodied long term unemployed to work ( on landscaping, state child care/crèches type work!)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:01:45 PM
To be fair muppet I don't see anywhere that foxcommander mentioned anything about eu citizens!!
Though some take the p**s a bit - no more than our own native dole-ies!
Personally I'd be reducing benefits and where possible putting the able bodied long term unemployed to work ( on landscaping, state child care/crèches type work!)
He didn't.
That's why I said this: "So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?"
Quote from: hardstation on May 17, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Hmm, I seem to have stumbled into the BNP annual conference.
You lefty shinners eh?!!
It might be a different story if you were down here and in the 'being screwed for tax' bracket.
Fair is fair but scroungers and those paying tax to fund the rest of the country is a bit of a sore topic. I'm happy to do so if the system wasn't being so blatantly being abused.
The blame lies with civil service and lack of proper policy, procedures, regulations , decent info database and fecking desire to actually do their fecking job!
A lot of the sf crew are gradually migrating from the left down here!
So those shinner Marxists in the 06 will be far removed from the southern counterparts in the not too distant future IMO ( especially if they continue as is and look to get into gov )
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:03:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:01:45 PM
To be fair muppet I don't see anywhere that foxcommander mentioned anything about eu citizens!!
Though some take the p**s a bit - no more than our own native dole-ies!
Personally I'd be reducing benefits and where possible putting the able bodied long term unemployed to work ( on landscaping, state child care/crèches type work!)
He didn't.
That's why I said this: "So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?"
Jeez - why would you presume otherwise chief- were you looking to find offence to go all caped crusader !!
Is it a bird or a plane no it's a semi accurate half forward captain claremorris !!
;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:11:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:03:28 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:01:45 PM
To be fair muppet I don't see anywhere that foxcommander mentioned anything about eu citizens!!
Though some take the p**s a bit - no more than our own native dole-ies!
Personally I'd be reducing benefits and where possible putting the able bodied long term unemployed to work ( on landscaping, state child care/crèches type work!)
He didn't.
That's why I said this: "So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?"
Jeez - why would you presume otherwise chief- were you looking to find offence to go all caped crusader !!
Is it a bird or a plane no it's a semi accurate half forward captain claremorris !!
;)
Are we not saying the same thing? :o
We are I think
I'm just wondering how you arrived at even asking that question!
Maybe you'd prefer 'captain clew bay'
- the choice of underpants to wear outside your trousers is yours - though I suspect green and red - with a bit of brown around September...!!
Sorry I couldn't resist!!
;)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:16:15 PM
We are I think
I'm just wondering how you arrived at even asking that question!
Maybe you'd prefer 'captain clew bay'
- the choice of underpants to wear outside your trousers is yours - though I suspect green and red - with a bit of brown around September...!!
Sorry I couldn't resist!!
;)
At this stage I will leave you to your worrying about my underpants.
I have a '9 years of no trophy' to re-calibrate and a run to prepare for tomorrow.
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:16:15 PM
We are I think
I'm just wondering how you arrived at even asking that question!
Maybe you'd prefer 'captain clew bay'
- the choice of underpants to wear outside your trousers is yours - though I suspect green and red - with a bit of brown around September...!!
Sorry I couldn't resist!!
;)
At this stage I will leave you to your worrying about my underpants.
I have a '9 years of no trophy' to re-calibrate and a run to prepare for tomorrow.
Lol
Maybe you mayO lads should think more about underpants, nappies and plan b so you's won't be 'caught short' again this sept!!
Didn't know you were an arsenal fan! Delighted for you!
Poor oul wenger gets some amount of IMO undue stick
Good luck in the run
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:26:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:21:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 17, 2014, 09:16:15 PM
We are I think
I'm just wondering how you arrived at even asking that question!
Maybe you'd prefer 'captain clew bay'
- the choice of underpants to wear outside your trousers is yours - though I suspect green and red - with a bit of brown around September...!!
Sorry I couldn't resist!!
;)
At this stage I will leave you to your worrying about my underpants.
I have a '9 years of no trophy' to re-calibrate and a run to prepare for tomorrow.
Lol
Maybe you mayO lads should think more about underpants, nappies and plan b so you's won't be 'caught short' again this sept!!
Didn't know you were an arsenal fan! Delighted for you!
Poor oul wenger gets some amount of IMO undue stick
Good luck in the run
Cheers, I am hoping to finish better than either Arsenal or Mayo.
Quote from: hardstation on May 17, 2014, 09:31:22 PM
How do the figures stack up? What percentage of people benefitting from the welfare state are "taking the piss"?
Typical cappo gurning. Be thankful for what you have. Millions would swap with you in the morning.
I'm dot disagreeing with you - yep I'm 'lucky' to be in a better position than a lot of poor unfortunates.
I'm not looking for a tax cut- well I'm happy to pay my bit , esp if it does benefit those who need it.
However I want my money and all money to go to those that need it - not to the scammers !
More money could benefit the genuine cases if these scamming parasites were cut out of the gravy train.
That and civil service to get off their holes to help such people.
Improve policies, procedures, take over unused housing for social needs families at least I'm the short term ( see late late show last night about that requirement)!
Excuse me. Civil servants can only do whats put in front of them. I know of one office involved in benefits work. They are so understaffed that they are just opening MARCH'S post now. Ten weeks behind in opening letters posted in march.. Never mind deal with the contents of that post.. Our politicians each and every party visited that particular rural based office prior to the last election canvassing for votes they are fully aware of the backlog and the demoralising pressure the staff work under but instead of fixing the problem they use the circumstances to fone up and que jump their friends or people who will vote for them. So we have files being pulled out of backllog piles taking workers away from their work to act as 'skivvy vote getters' for useless politicians trying to mske themselves look good so they can regain power and continue the flawed system.
Quote from: lawnseed on May 18, 2014, 04:50:10 AM
Excuse me. Civil servants can only do whats put in front of them. I know of one office involved in benefits work. They are so understaffed that they are just opening MARCH'S post now. Ten weeks behind in opening letters posted in march.. Never mind deal with the contents of that post.. Our politicians each and every party visited that particular rural based office prior to the last election canvassing for votes they are fully aware of the backlog and the demoralising pressure the staff work under but instead of fixing the problem they use the circumstances to fone up and que jump their friends or people who will vote for them. So we have files being pulled out of backllog piles taking workers away from their work to act as 'skivvy vote getters' for useless politicians trying to mske themselves look good so they can regain power and continue the flawed system.
Maybe that's the case in the north
In the south - I've first hand exp- there is a lack of desire to work.
Out if 100, you'd only hand pick about 25 to come and work for you.
There is a bit of a grey area between politicians and civil servants as to who drives requirement but the top brass in civil service is where the buck should stop
It it their responsibility - govs come and go and really only vote to approve things.
Eg water charges- who was leading this, over seeing the project - I'd say no one as the consultancy fees, overspend , lack of policy/procedure and lack of actually addressing the well known long problematic leaking water pipe system - is a disgrace.
Yes it's a new private company effectively - but this comes under civil service level which then comes under and reports to gov
Water charges only latest in long line of failures by out civil servants/bureaucrats
Certainly in the south
That office is in ulster. Lunch. But not the occupied six. Why do you assume its in the north?
Quote from: hardstation on May 17, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Hmm, I seem to have stumbled into the BNP annual conference.
That's exactly the sort of comment that stops debates for fear of being labeled. No politician will touch the subject either. I wonder why. Let's bury heads in the sand, pretend it doesn't happen and hand out money to those who shouldn't get it.
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:03:28 PM
He didn't.
That's why I said this: "So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?"
Absolutely - people within the EU have rights to be in the country and work. We have the same in theirs.
There is a finite amount of people the EU can support as well as how many Ireland can look after. We aren't doing a great job looking after our own to begin with
Quote from: foxcommander on May 20, 2014, 03:50:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on May 17, 2014, 09:03:28 PM
He didn't.
That's why I said this: "So I have to presume we are talking about immigrants from outside the EU?"
Absolutely - people within the EU have rights to be in the country and work. We have the same in theirs.
There is a finite amount of people the EU can support as well as how many Ireland can look after. We aren't doing a great job looking after our own to begin with
If some of these colleges are abusing their positions and the immigration procedures they should be dealt with.
Regarding immigration overall I am caught between the 'I have to pay for these people' and the 'but Ireland send more immigrants out to the world than most countries' arguments.
Quote from: muppet on May 21, 2014, 02:45:18 PM
If some of these colleges are abusing their positions and the immigration procedures they should be dealt with.
Regarding immigration overall I am caught between the 'I have to pay for these people' and the 'but Ireland send more immigrants out to the world than most countries' arguments.
I'd have the same attitude to any irish person who is in the USA/Canada/Australia/other illegally. If they haven't got the proper authorisation to be there then they should be turfed out.
I don't know of irish claiming welfare benefits/housing when going to other countries though. Maybe someone can correct me.
Did you write this?
(http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/pastedimage-22480-630x472.png)
Quote from: armaghniac on May 21, 2014, 05:33:41 PM
Did you write this?
(http://f0.thejournal.ie/media/2014/05/pastedimage-22480-630x472.png)
Ha! no, but it's realistic in my own lifetime. 2050 might not be so ambitious for the lefty, educate-together crew!
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
Obv sham college 'graduates' :D
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
Only in their 'OW' country.
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Have a good guess..
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Have a good guess..
Well there aren't many serious commentators blaming immigration for the astonishing rise in unemployment in the 26.
So i'm guessing the 6?
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Have a good guess..
Well there aren't many serious commentators blaming immigration for the astonishing rise in unemployment in the 26.
So i'm guessing the 6?
26. maybe because no-one wants to admit it - the government seem to keep it quiet.
or maybe you've missed the fact that 250,000 have left the country due to lack of work?
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Have a good guess..
Well there aren't many serious commentators blaming immigration for the astonishing rise in unemployment in the 26.
So i'm guessing the 6?
26. maybe because no-one wants to admit it - the government seem to keep it quiet.
or maybe you've missed the fact that 250,000 have left the country due to lack of work?
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:54:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 05:48:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:45:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 04:52:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 03:48:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 22, 2014, 03:08:25 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 21, 2014, 06:16:54 PM
Is it that all the nazi nutjobs are illiterate or all the illiterates are nazi nutjobs?
In fairness, the immigration of educated foreigners often diminishes the prospects of illiterate locals.
Yes and this can provide a fruitful bounty for ultra-nationalist movements.
Which is why a balanced approach to immigration is required to ensure that the local population have a fair shot at gaining employment for jobs they are capable for and to earn a decent wage. Mass immigration drives down wages due to cheap labour. I know many people who lost their jobs because of this.
You would see less resentment from local populations if they had a fair chance.
What country would that be in?
Have a good guess..
Well there aren't many serious commentators blaming immigration for the astonishing rise in unemployment in the 26.
So i'm guessing the 6?
26. maybe because no-one wants to admit it - the government seem to keep it quiet.
or maybe you've missed the fact that 250,000 have left the country due to lack of work?
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
You catch on quick.
It has certainly had a knock-on effect on employment prospects for the indigenous population
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
You catch on quick.
It has certainly had a knock-on effect on employment prospects for the indigenous population
I met this sort of abuse when I moved to Dublin.
I guess I should see it as progress that I am no longer targeted for taking someone else's job.
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 06:30:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
You catch on quick.
It has certainly had a knock-on effect on employment prospects for the indigenous population
I met this sort of abuse when I moved to Dublin.
I guess I should see it as progress that I am no longer targeted for taking someone else's job.
You shouldn't have been targeted. That is shameful.
You seem to miss the point of my argument though if this is your comeback.
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 06:30:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
You catch on quick.
It has certainly had a knock-on effect on employment prospects for the indigenous population
I met this sort of abuse when I moved to Dublin.
I guess I should see it as progress that I am no longer targeted for taking someone else's job.
You shouldn't have been targeted. That is shameful.
You seem to miss the point of my argument though if this is your comeback.
If your point is that the immigrants are to blame for high unemployment, then yes it is a point that I missed.
We have seen this ideology before where the majority blames an easy target minority for its woes.
To be fair muppet there is/was some merit in what he is saying in relation to the building game
Bad enough we had unskilled irish chancers taking jobs of skilled tradesmen because they were 'cheaper' but this was made worse by foreign lads adding to it.
Then he housing bust really kicked in and everyone lost out
These jobs the gov are supposedly creating
- it will be interesting to see ( in light of priory hall as just one of many examples) if the builders/sub contractors hire experienced tradesmen to do a quality job, or will they hire cheaper inexperienced but willing workers.
I'd not be confident to be honest!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 22, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
To be fair muppet there is/was some merit in what he is saying in relation to the building game
Bad enough we had unskilled irish chancers taking jobs of skilled tradesmen because they were 'cheaper' but this was made worse by foreign lads adding to it.
Then he housing bust really kicked in and everyone lost out
These jobs the gov are supposedly creating
- it will be interesting to see ( in light of priory hall as just one of many examples) if the builders/sub contractors hire experienced tradesmen to do a quality job, or will they hire cheaper inexperienced but willing workers.
I'd not be confident to be honest!
Indeed, but the job losses were hardly the fault of immigrants.
The jobs were lost, that is not the same as saying locals were displaced by foreigners.
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 09:13:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 22, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
To be fair muppet there is/was some merit in what he is saying in relation to the building game
Bad enough we had unskilled irish chancers taking jobs of skilled tradesmen because they were 'cheaper' but this was made worse by foreign lads adding to it.
Then he housing bust really kicked in and everyone lost out
These jobs the gov are supposedly creating
- it will be interesting to see ( in light of priory hall as just one of many examples) if the builders/sub contractors hire experienced tradesmen to do a quality job, or will they hire cheaper inexperienced but willing workers.
I'd not be confident to be honest!
Indeed, but the job losses were hardly the fault of immigrants.
The jobs were lost, that is not the same as saying locals were displaced by foreigners.
I'm against unskilled people in skilled jobs.
So IMO immigrants, local chancers and sc**bag sub contractors/builders are all equally to blame
IMO there needs to be a system where tradesmen must pass a practical test in their trade.
Only then can this be eradicated!
There should be a green card system also- plus a revamp of the welfare and taxation systems!
IMO
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 22, 2014, 09:28:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 09:13:08 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 22, 2014, 08:52:34 PM
To be fair muppet there is/was some merit in what he is saying in relation to the building game
Bad enough we had unskilled irish chancers taking jobs of skilled tradesmen because they were 'cheaper' but this was made worse by foreign lads adding to it.
Then he housing bust really kicked in and everyone lost out
These jobs the gov are supposedly creating
- it will be interesting to see ( in light of priory hall as just one of many examples) if the builders/sub contractors hire experienced tradesmen to do a quality job, or will they hire cheaper inexperienced but willing workers.
I'd not be confident to be honest!
Indeed, but the job losses were hardly the fault of immigrants.
The jobs were lost, that is not the same as saying locals were displaced by foreigners.
I'm against unskilled people in skilled jobs.
So IMO immigrants, local chancers and sc**bag sub contractors/builders are all equally to blame
IMO there needs to be a system where tradesmen must pass a practical test in their trade.
Only then can this be eradicated!
There should be a green card system also- plus a revamp of the welfare and taxation systems!
IMO
I would agree with you completely.
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 07:04:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:41:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 06:30:36 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 22, 2014, 06:18:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 22, 2014, 05:58:37 PM
Ah right.
So the high unemployment in the south is down to immigrants and the Government want to 'keep it quiet'.
You catch on quick.
It has certainly had a knock-on effect on employment prospects for the indigenous population
I met this sort of abuse when I moved to Dublin.
I guess I should see it as progress that I am no longer targeted for taking someone else's job.
You shouldn't have been targeted. That is shameful.
You seem to miss the point of my argument though if this is your comeback.
If your point is that the immigrants are to blame for high unemployment, then yes it is a point that I missed.
We have seen this ideology before where the majority blames an easy target minority for its woes.
Immigration is to be welcomed if there is a need for the numbers. If there aren't enough jobs to go around there is little point in inviting more people in.
I don't blame immigrants for high unemployment although their presence and price point are driving factors in having a growing section of irish people out of work. That said, the irish themselves got a bit above their station during the "boom" and won't get out of bed for some menial jobs, which in turn supports demand from other countries.
What I am trying to say is that we should be mindful of getting our own citizens as close to full employment as possible. The knock on effect if we don't is more numbers on the dole and people who are working have to carry the can to support them. Wouldn't it be better if the welfare system would supplement a low income family who are trying to make ends meet by doing an honest days work rather than just give handouts to all and sundry.
I've no time for those who want to sit home and watch Jeremy Kyle every day. Community service after a year if you don't find a job or benefits cut.
It's about everyone pulling their weight.
Quote from: foxcommander on May 23, 2014, 04:25:02 AM
Immigration is to be welcomed if there is a need for the numbers. If there aren't enough jobs to go around there is little point in inviting more people in.
I don't blame immigrants for high unemployment although their presence and price point are driving factors in having a growing section of irish people out of work. That said, the irish themselves got a bit above their station during the "boom" and won't get out of bed for some menial jobs, which in turn supports demand from other countries.
What I am trying to say is that we should be mindful of getting our own citizens as close to full employment as possible. The knock on effect if we don't is more numbers on the dole and people who are working have to carry the can to support them. Wouldn't it be better if the welfare system would supplement a low income family who are trying to make ends meet by doing an honest days work rather than just give handouts to all and sundry.
I've no time for those who want to sit home and watch Jeremy Kyle every day. Community service after a year if you don't find a job or benefits cut.
It's about everyone pulling their weight.
You see this is a different issue entirely. Are immigrants taking locals jobs, or is the problem that are they just sitting idle on the welfare system?
The reality is that we had 'full employment'. Because of that, and the idiotic ideology of Bertie, McCreevy and Harney, we held recruitment fairs around the world looking for more workers to fuel our boom. This short term thinking was quite successful. The vast majority of these people came to work, not to join 'all and sundry' on welfare. Since the crash the number of immigrants has fallen 4 out of the last 5 years.
we still get immigrant workers in- there is a shortage in certain IT sectors so the companies have to apply for and usually get the visa's to bring in non EU people.
I know a good few, and some of these have ended up staying and are eligible after 6 or 7 years to become IRish citizens.
that's not something we can do in USA since they changes their eligibility laws unfortunately.
don't know about Australia or Canada.
anyhow we will prob need more workers to come in to fill the void in IT for example until the surge in stufents doing computer based courses graduate and gain experience and maturity in the workforce!
muppet- you'll love this
half watching tv3 this morning and they were showcasing (the morning breakfast show is really one long advert show with the news every 30 mins) some Irish tanning stuff.
the CEO or whatever she was , at great emphasis said that it was an Irish owned, Irish run and fully Irish staffed company.
I thought the emphasis on Irish staffed was actually quite wrong.
it might be but the way she said it , just didn't sit right.
imo
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 11:53:36 AM
we still get immigrant workers in- there is a shortage in certain IT sectors so the companies have to apply for and usually get the visa's to bring in non EU people.
I know a good few, and some of these have ended up staying and are eligible after 6 or 7 years to become IRish citizens.
that's not something we can do in USA since they changes their eligibility laws unfortunately.
don't know about Australia or Canada.
anyhow we will prob need more workers to come in to fill the void in IT for example until the surge in stufents doing computer based courses graduate and gain experience and maturity in the workforce!
muppet- you'll love this
half watching tv3 this morning and they were showcasing (the morning breakfast show is really one long advert show with the news every 30 mins) some Irish tanning stuff.
the CEO or whatever she was , at great emphasis said that it was an Irish owned, Irish run and fully Irish staffed company.
I thought the emphasis on Irish staffed was actually quite wrong.
it might be but the way she said it , just didn't sit right.
imo
I have no problem with that at all. In this PC world she would need to be careful how she phrased it, but I have no problem with it personally.
My issue is with some far left/right groups who target immigrants and blame them for everything. This happens in many countries but thankfully we seem to be above that in Ireland.
I thought it was completely inappropriate!
maybe it was I was just over tired!
I can remember about ten years ago Harney and the government saying we would need about 100,000 immigrants to fill the vacant jobs. So are these people supposed to just f**k off back where they came from after uprooting themselves to move to Ireland and build new lives because suddenly Irish people want those jobs back for themselves?
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
I can remember about ten years ago Harney and the government saying we would need about 100,000 immigrants to fill the vacant jobs. So are these people supposed to just f**k off back where they came from after uprooting themselves to move to Ireland and build new lives because suddenly Irish people want those jobs back for themselves?
http://irishecho.com/2011/02/business-briefs-ireland-needs-200000-workers-in-next-5-years-2/ (http://irishecho.com/2011/02/business-briefs-ireland-needs-200000-workers-in-next-5-years-2/)
Last weekend, while attending a jobs fair in South Africa, Tanaiste Mary Harney said she was considering allowing FAS, a government recruitment and training agency, as well as reputable private companies, to issue work permits directly.
Harney also said the State needs new labor to remain competitive, avoid a wage spiral and implement the National Development Plan. This would require an additional 200,000 workers by 2006, she said. FAS director general Roddy Molloy said there are now 40,000 vacancies in Ireland.
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
I can remember about ten years ago Harney and the government saying we would need about 100,000 immigrants to fill the vacant jobs. So are these people supposed to just f**k off back where they came from after uprooting themselves to move to Ireland and build new lives because suddenly Irish people want those jobs back for themselves?
IF we had a proper green card system in place, then immigrants would know the duration of their life in Ireland could be limited and tied to their job
its the same for others in places like usa and Australia
its similar for people working on contract jobs (ok not deported) - if they opt for working in contracts, they know when the job ends, that's that.
fellas in the building game followed the work. theyd be working in London, then Birmingham, Dublin, back to London etc as that's how it was
they've got way too soft in recent years, whinging about having to go to England or further abroad to get work.
that's the career they chose, that's the life.
I knew when I worked in the US that after my work ended my visa was up and I had to go home (I could have stayed illegally).
I don't think anyone would or could say that people in jobs should be kicked out of them to make room for unemployed Irish - that's the first mention I have ever heard of that. Maybe people are saying it around the country - its def a new thing to me and that wouldn't, wont and cannot happen.
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough cheap resources in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Fixed that for you
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 12:30:49 PM
I can remember about ten years ago Harney and the government saying we would need about 100,000 immigrants to fill the vacant jobs. So are these people supposed to just f**k off back where they came from after uprooting themselves to move to Ireland and build new lives because suddenly Irish people want those jobs back for themselves?
No but work is transient and anyone who moves to another country should know that. There is no obligation on the host country to provide citizenship or a safety net in such circumstances but employment law to ensure they are compensated correctly should be put in place. If you are bringing family with you then you know the risks that they may be uprooted again.
This is why work visas would help in such situations. You get granted a permit for say 2 years. You know the amount of time you have and can make plans accordingly. If you are in employment then you can re-apply after 18 months for extention for another 2 years. If you don't have work then give a 6 month extension to help you find work / give you time to move.
The government can then track the amount of positions that are legally filled by non-eu workers and plan services accordingly. Anyone who doesnt have a visa or is not a named dependent on the visa doesn't have rights to remain in the country.
Supply and demand.
Quote from: thebigfella on May 23, 2014, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough cheap resources in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Fixed that for you
Yourself and Lynchbhoy pretty much summed it up. Cheap non-eu labour being enticed into the eurozone. Same sort of thing happening in the USA as well. The numbers in poverty over there are growing steadily.
It's amazing how many people can't see past the end of their own nose
Quote from: fearsiuil on May 17, 2014, 01:26:12 PM
St. Jarlath's College
I don't think anyone got this but it made me laugh. ;D
Quote from: thebigfella on May 23, 2014, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough cheap resources in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Fixed that for you
Are you a recruitment consultant ?
Ok the immigrants coming in might be a tad cheaper - but many experienced resources just can't be got in the EU!
IMO it's not to bring in cheap workers!
A proper green card system would keep everyone happy. No one could complain afterwards!
In this event you couldn't question that such people were cheap labour or not!
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 23, 2014, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on May 17, 2014, 01:26:12 PM
St. Jarlath's College
I don't think anyone got this but it made me laugh. ;D
The old CBS would have qualified as well.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on May 23, 2014, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough cheap resources in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Fixed that for you
Are you a recruitment consultant ?
Ok the immigrants coming in might be a tad cheaper - but many experienced resources just can't be got in the EU!
IMO it's not to bring in cheap workers!
A proper green card system would keep everyone happy. No one could complain afterwards!
In this event you couldn't question that such people were cheap labour or not!
Nope don't work in recruitment and certainly don't agree with foxdungmander.
I will say this, I have first hand experience of 3 multinationals paid huge innovation grants etc... to create jobs here and offshore everything to vendors. They are not a tad cheaper and not experienced but it's all about the bottom line with the bean counters. The quality is here and certainly in the EU.
Quote from: thebigfella on May 24, 2014, 12:43:09 AM
I will say this, I have first hand experience of 3 multinationals paid huge innovation grants etc... to create jobs here and offshore everything to vendors. They are not a tad cheaper and not experienced but it's all about the bottom line with the bean counters. The quality is here and certainly in the EU.
Is this supposed to be in English? Please decipher.
Quote from: thebigfella on May 24, 2014, 12:43:09 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 06:30:33 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on May 23, 2014, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 23, 2014, 02:46:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 23, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
But I thought the EU was all about open borders and no visas or work permits?
the people I am talking about are not EU citizens
but we need them as obv there are not enough cheap resources in EU to satisfy our IT requirements presently
Fixed that for you
Are you a recruitment consultant ?
Ok the immigrants coming in might be a tad cheaper - but many experienced resources just can't be got in the EU!
IMO it's not to bring in cheap workers!
A proper green card system would keep everyone happy. No one could complain afterwards!
In this event you couldn't question that such people were cheap labour or not!
Nope don't work in recruitment and certainly don't agree with foxdungmander.
I will say this, I have first hand experience of 3 multinationals paid huge innovation grants etc... to create jobs here and offshore everything to vendors. They are not a tad cheaper and not experienced but it's all about the bottom line with the bean counters. The quality is here and certainly in the EU.
Are these roles in the north? If so then I have only a bit of exp regarding recruitment there, but it wouldn't surprise me a lot with those multiple makey up jobs that are purely set up to obtain grants etc!
Where else would you get money to create an industry around accented English slang and call it alstar skats!!
Other jobs are to create employment - not necessarily profit or a product- usually the aim of a commercial company!
The whole equal employment thing immediately goes against recruiting the best person for the job mantra anyway ! IMO
Maybe the industry you are talking about is flouting decency if not the law by hiring cheap workers- which is why we need a proper green card system.
I know in the south for IT programmers and most IT areas, the experienced and quality people are not avail in Ireland or EU so non EU workers are the only alternative.
Yourself and mr fox are saying much the same thing- though he just sounds right wing in saying it. He hasn't said anything bad IMO.
No one here wants people kicked out of jobs. We all want proper immigration work system in place to give priority to citizens.
Exploitation of workers is also a portion of this that needs to be addressed as it still happens.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 23, 2014, 03:38:59 PM
Quote from: fearsiuil on May 17, 2014, 01:26:12 PM
St. Jarlath's College
I don't think anyone got this but it made me laugh. ;D
Any alum of a proper college like St. Nathy's would have got it. Jarlath's probably use Connacht titles for bike shed ash trays at this stage.