Might as well get it started......
Two of the most unpredictable teams in Ireland. Will home advantage be enough?
Very hard to pick the starting 15 for Tyrone.
I see Justin McMahon played for Omagh at the weekend.
At the start of the year all the Tyrone talk was about the new emerging talent - Grugan, PJ Lavery, D McNulty, returning N McKenna etc etc whereas now most of us are yearning for the return of the old brigade - Gormley, McMahons, SON, Penrose etc. It was a frustrating league campaign from a Tyrone perspective. Its hard to know where we are at. Mickey has a lot of work to do between now & May 18th. I think the most disappointing aspect of our league campaign is that for the second successive year we are no closer to finding our strongest 15. A leaky defence & the form of Sean Cavanagh are both worrying signs.
I think this year will stand to Grugan as he has featured quite a bit. Why has Lavery not got more chances recently and is McNulty off the squad completely? Is he now injury free?
Quote from: tyroneman on April 15, 2014, 06:58:12 AM
Might as well get it started......
Two of the most unpredictable teams in Ireland. Will home advantage be enough?
I'd say in championship anyway Tyrone haven't been unpredictable in recent years. We've only been knocked out by the top teams - Donegal, Dublin, Mayo and Kerry. We've beaten every team we'd expect to beat below the very top level - Monaghan, Kildare, Meath, Armagh etc. The big thing now is to push on and take out a top team or 2 this year.
Quote from: tyroneman on April 15, 2014, 06:58:12 AM
Might as well get it started......
Two of the most unpredictable teams in Ireland. Will home advantage be enough?
Home advantage will be more than enough. Tyrone by 8.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on April 15, 2014, 11:38:01 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 15, 2014, 06:58:12 AM
Might as well get it started......
Two of the most unpredictable teams in Ireland. Will home advantage be enough?
Hom advantage will be more than enough. Tyrone by 8.
With 15 Down men behind the ball, Tyrone might not even get to 8 points, let alone win by 8.
I can see a 0-0 draw.
Quote from: nrico2006 on April 15, 2014, 09:08:38 AM
I think this year will stand to Grugan as he has featured quite a bit. Why has Lavery not got more chances recently and is McNulty off the squad completely? Is he now injury free?
McNulty off the squad.
I think Down could pinch this.
Down arent at the same level as Tyrone. There will be no repeat of 08 in omagh/Newry. Simply our forwards arent good enough they are afraid to take a shot at the posts have to try and work it as close to the sticks as possible before taking a pop. Far too small also. Had a poor league, without a last minute winner in Armagh we may be playing Division 3. Its been a tough 20 years follwing Down and it doesnt look like its getting any easier any time soon.
Will still make the journey to Omagh regardless more in hope than anything else
Tyroneman, you started this thread early in the morning?
Kids, Cows or what were you minding when you started typing?
It's great we're at this stage of the year already and yes whilst us TyrMoanies are all a bit worried about the season ahead, we should trust in Mickey as he knows what's brest for Tyrone and look where he took us last year with a much more limited forward line.
Ye can say what you like about bringing back the "oldies" but you're in total denial if you don't think SON, Gormley, the 2 McMahons and Penrose would not be automatic starters if at all fit.
I think Mickey has done a good job bringing in the young lads and giving them plenty of "game time" like Dublin and Cork have done as well as other teams. AFAIK Donegal have played with their basic 12-13 starting lineup and maybe have unearthed 1 or 2 others.
I'd be pretty happy with the shape we're in and think we've more to choose from than last year.
Big Sean was easing himself back into the game after his latest injury and Joey & Justy are always best suited to the hard ground with their dodgy hammies.
Hopefully SoN will recover well enough from the surgery from that freak standing on the ball thing last year and the total rest he has had will be worth it. I for one have not written him off yet
Of course you'll get loads of Derry and Armagh wans saying all those players are done cos they want to believe that but I'd say Joey will be our POTY this year, unless I just cursed him of course.
Down certainly don't worry me as much as say Donegal or Derry. I think Donegal are happy to lye in the long grass and mug all us again with their super defensive style as we have all moved on to open football again
I can see another back door route but maybe we'll get to the Ulster final.
Speaking of which, could this be the year for the first ever Derry v Tyrone final? Hmmmm...
First ever Derry v Tyrone Ulster Final??? I don't think so.
1957 - Colour clash so Derry wore blue (!) and tyrone wore Ulster Amber.
Tyrone won.
Quote from: Fuzzman on April 15, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
Tyroneman, you started this thread early in the morning?
Kids, Cows or what were you minding when you started typing?
It's great we're at this stage of the year already and yes whilst us TyrMoanies are all a bit worried about the season ahead, we should trust in Mickey as he knows what's brest for Tyrone and look where he took us last year with a much more limited forward line.
Ye can say what you like about bringing back the "oldies" but you're in total denial if you don't think SON, Gormley, the 2 McMahons and Penrose would not be automatic starters if at all fit.
I think Mickey has done a good job bringing in the young lads and giving them plenty of "game time" like Dublin and Cork have done as well as other teams. AFAIK Donegal have played with their basic 12-13 starting lineup and maybe have unearthed 1 or 2 others.
I'd be pretty happy with the shape we're in and think we've more to choose from than last year.
Big Sean was easing himself back into the game after his latest injury and Joey & Justy are always best suited to the hard ground with their dodgy hammies.
Hopefully SoN will recover well enough from the surgery from that freak standing on the ball thing last year and the total rest he has had will be worth it. I for one have not written him off yet
Of course you'll get loads of Derry and Armagh wans saying all those players are done cos they want to believe that but I'd say Joey will be our POTY this year, unless I just cursed him of course.
Down certainly don't worry me as much as say Donegal or Derry. I think Donegal are happy to lye in the long grass and mug all us again with their super defensive style as we have all moved on to open football again
I can see another back door route but maybe we'll get to the Ulster final.
Speaking of which, could this be the year for the first ever Derry v Tyrone final? Hmmmm...
Can't see Joey being available for the Down game. Has done nothing training wise due to a serious groin injury. Could be a bit of a non-runner of a season for him.
Home advantage in Omagh means diddly squat to Tyrone.. It seems they get beat there more often than they win these days.. Usually play better away from home.. Saying that I expect Tyrone to win but probably by 2 or 3 points.. Of course the usual injury jinx could strike between now and then and we will not have a clue as to who will line out... Wouldn't have it any other way haha
Whoever wins plays Monaghan. A tough road ahead.
I expect Tyrone to pinch this but only just. I'd have Derry, Donegal and Monaghan as the top three in the province with ourselves, Cavan and Down in that order following them.
Looking at the power of Dublin last weekend throws the spotlight on how physically light our lads are in comparison, apart from a couple of players.
There have been ups and downs during the league with the Dublin game probably a reflection of it. Conceding 2 soft goals and getting run over have been concerns during the league. However we did manage to get back from a 10 point deficit out playing the all Ireland champions for 45 minutes and score more often than them in the game.
We've scored heavily during the league and competed apart from a half v Kerry with the top teams despite never having the strongest team available. Sean cavanagh our best player missed pre season and played a key position throughout the league despite not being fit. I suspect he'll return to close to his best for the championship.
If everyone is fit I'd be surprised if I haven't got 11 or 12 starters below:
Morgan
Pj
Mcnamee
McKenna
Clarke
Donnelly
Gormley
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Penrose
Mark d
Mccurry
Coney
Mcaliskey
Morgan
Quinn
Clarke
Gormley
Harte
Donnelly
McNamee
Cavanagh Colm
Mc Mahon Joe
Penrose
Ronan ONeill
Mark Donelly
McCurry
Sean Cavanagh
Ronan McNabb
Play McNabb along the half back line to help and shore up that space.
Quote.Tyroneman, you started this thread early in the morning?
Kids, Cows or what were you minding when you started typing?
Isn't everyone up at that time? Days half over ;)
Still think Donegal are the team to beat in Ulster. Have the physicality for Derry and everyone writing them off already.
I would probably expect:
1. Morgan
2. McNamee
3. Clarke
4. McRory
5. McGinley
6. Gormley
7. Harte
8. Colm Cavanagh
9. Sean Cavanagh
10. Penrose
11. Ronan O'Neill
12. Mattie Donnelly (expect him to come to MF to release SC coming forward)
13. McCurry
14. Coney
15. McAliskey
If Joe was fit I'd have him at 3 with Clarke pushing to CB.
Quote from: Under Lights on April 16, 2014, 07:53:39 AM
I would probably expect:
1. Morgan
2. McNamee
3. Clarke
4. McRory
5. McGinley
6. Gormley
7. Harte
8. Colm Cavanagh
9. Sean Cavanagh
10. Penrose
11. Ronan O'Neill
12. Mattie Donnelly (expect him to come to MF to release SC coming forward)
13. McCurry
14. Coney
15. McAliskey
If Joe was fit I'd have him at 3 with Clarke pushing to CB.
I think this is the closest I have seen yet.
1 morgan
2 mcrory
3 r mcnamee
4 r mc kenna
5 clarke
6 mattie
7 harte
8 cavanagh
9 cavanagh
10 mcginley
11 shay
12 duckie donnelly
13 mcaliskey
14 kyle if fit
15 mccurry
i have little faith in our full back line but these are the guys that are getting chosen so thats what we've to go with.
Just to keep our side up:
1) McVeigh
2) Dan
3) Brendy
4) Costello
5) McKernan
6) Aidan Carr
7) Garvey
8)Ambrose
9) Mallon
10) O'Hanlon
11) Poland
12) Laverty
13) Donal
14) Madine
15) Benny
Any new stars breaking through in Down?
Tyrone V Down minors on this saturday in the league.
Quote from: Under Lights on April 16, 2014, 04:56:08 PM
Any new stars breaking through in Down?
Tyrone V Down minors on this saturday in the league.
ryan treanor, son of shorty treanor is a real prospect and kory colgan from an riocht is also showing well. both feature prominently for down minors.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on April 16, 2014, 04:53:13 PM
Just to keep our side up:
1) McVeigh
2) Dan
3) Brendy
4) Costello
5) McKernan
6) Aidan Carr
7) Garvey
8)Ambrose
9) Mallon
10) O'Hanlon
11) Poland
12) Laverty
13) Donal
14) Madine
15) Benny
id be very surprised if peter turley wasn't on the starting team. ryan boyle, connor maginn and Darren O'Hagan ( if fit ) are also probable starters.
Def think Pete Turley , Maginn and poss O Hagan should start . With some of the players missing ( through Aussie rules , soccer , immigration , injury and non committal ) I was very worried at the prospect of this Down side travelling to Omagh looking for a result !
However , recent events show some of these Tyrone men perhaps have a preference for using the back door and it maybe presents faint hope for a victory . 8)
On league form, Maginn and Turley are very likely to start in Omagh. Benny and O'Hanlon are at opposite ends of their careers, and would be expected to be on the bench. It would be great to see Mallon back, although flying him back from Brussels will not be easy. We could also be doing with big King in there.
Unusually, we have decent competition for places in defence, with Boyle, O'Hagan and Rooney all pushing hard for a spot. The chances of big Dan joining them do not look great.
Though it pains me to say it lads,we are simply not good enough to be competitive in Ulster this year. What is worse is that we are so far behind in terms of development, even the next few years look very bleak. Tyrone are at present out off our league
When Tyrone had lethal sides in 03 and 08, Down Drew with them twice, lost one and won one.
Down have a big life.
This has the potential to be a classic. A lot of Down support aren't optimistic but I've a feeling we can go to Omagh and turn them over. Provided we have all our main men available.
Down as always are unpredictable - and this leads to the slight pessimism amongst us so that we dont really expect to win, to outsiders anyway. In house, I think we all harbour hopes and expectations. In James's years at the helm, we have played in Div 1 & 2 play offs, Ulster Finals, All Ireland Finals, and also got a few real hammerings against us thrown in too. which emphasises our ups and downs. We dont have the quality of a few years ago with the Clarkes, Murtagh, McCumiskey, Big Dan etc no longer around so our team is weaker. However, so is Tyrones so this is far from a sure thing for the red hands.
It would be great for Down to win in Omagh but I just can't see it. Outside of O'Hare its hard to see where are scores are going to come from. A fit Ambrose would offer some threat from midfield but he may not be ready in time.
A team with no defence plays a team with a swaggery attack on an early summers day in Omagh. Im not saying Down are the finished article but my head says they are a championship team and with no expectation, yet just 3 years after playing an an all ireland final. Do you down men think we Tyrone men are complete gullible eejits. We go hard into this one or we'll be holidaying in Carlow and Leitrim over the summer....
Sean Cavanagh seemed to be in a bit of form over the weekend for the Moy.
Paddy McNiece for Na Fianna as well.
Noticed Penrose didn't play for Carmen.
Justin McMahon continues his comeback with Omagh. Under a month now to this game.
Quote from: rrhf on April 17, 2014, 09:36:20 PM
Do you down men think we Tyrone men are complete gullible eejits.
:-X ;D
How did Justin play? Was Clarke and Ronan playing too?
What's the latest on Joey's injury?
Usually it's around this time of the year that we get hit with BIG injury bad news.
I really hope McNabb can stay injury free and get a run in the team.
I still can't decide where is the best place to play Clarke?
Could he be a good corner forward come 3rd MF like McGinley
Cant see Mallon starting. Ambrose looked OK in a club game at the weekend, he also scored 2 45s on the first half. Turley must start.
Fully fit but not available players for Down:
Marty Clarke
Caolan Mooney
Dan Gordon
Paul McComiskey
Danny Hughes
Ryan Mallon (probably unavailable)
Kalum King (probably)
Every one of these players would start if available. That's half a team better than team we have now.
Keith Quinn also.
Quote from: PAULD123 on April 23, 2014, 12:53:54 PM
Fully fit but not available players for Down:
Marty Clarke
Caolan Mooney
Dan Gordon
Paul McComiskey
Danny Hughes
Ryan Mallon (probably unavailable)
Kalum King (probably)
Every one of these players would start if available. That's half a team better than team we have now.
Outside Clarke and Mooney what are the issues with the others.
won too many medals
Quote from: rrhf on April 24, 2014, 12:27:35 AM
won too many medals
No, away to London to, ahem, earn a wage.
Quote from: Under Lights on April 23, 2014, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on April 23, 2014, 12:53:54 PM
Fully fit but not available players for Down:
Marty Clarke.....
Every one of these players would start if available. That's half a team better than team we have now.
Outside Clarke and Mooney what are the issues with the others.
Marty Clarke - Australia Rules
Caolan Mooney - Australia Rules
Dan Gordon - Recovered from broken foot but hasn't chosen to rejoin panel
Paul McComiskey - Went travelling last year (back now but not rejoined panel)
Danny Hughes - Has opted out to concentrate on club football
Ryan Mallon - Working in Brussels
Kalum King - Says he is too busy at work to join panel
Shay McCartan - Playing football for Accrington Stanley
I added Shay McCartan (forgot him of the initial list)
If all those players were available then only Poland would be likely to retain his place from Number 8 to 15. Maybe Laverty instead of McCartan but I doubt it.
In defense apart from Dan Gordon I believe Niall McEvoy wasn't overly interested in playing for the county (but I'm willing to be corrected)
That's a serious list of quality footballers missing from Down's squad.
For how many more years are you likely to moan about this shite?
All too easy to come out with that line DuffleKing when ye don't have such players missing from your team.
When you know you're going into a new season with such a plethora of talent missing that could make you into possible 1/4 finalists if not beyond, it is VERY frustrating.
Tyrone don't currently have the same talent they did in the noughties but often they had serious injury lists and other counties had the attitude "Ahh sure they can still absorb that and sure haven't they loads of talent coming through"
It doesn't work like that and so it must be very annoying to see top players like Gordon, Danny Hughes and McComiskey choosing not to line out for their county. At one stage lining out for Down was a total honour and a chance to follow in so many greats footsteps.
It's not that long ago since this county were in an AI final
Id be inclined to agree with the applemuncher.
Its a bit tired to be rolling out the same oul shite every year
If yer granny had balls hed be yer granda.
fellas are missing every year because of circumstance, just get on with it.
Concentrate on the fellas who actually are available and training their cahonas off!
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on April 25, 2014, 09:58:53 AM
Id be inclined to agree with the applemuncher.
Its a bit tired to be rolling out the same oul shite every year
If yer granny had balls hed be yer granda.
fellas are missing every year because of circumstance, just get on with it.
Concentrate on the fellas who actually are available and training their cahonas off!
I'm getting tired of this phrase! It seems to be everywhere on this board lately.
Mooney and McCartan did nothing at senior level, they might not have became anything other than decent. I rarely here Tyrone fans moaning about Niall McGinn being absent. Also, Danny Hughes must be one of the most over-rated players about. Had one decent season and that was about it.
Nrico obviously thinks that, because he did not see much of Danny Hughes before and after the 2010 AI final, he must be an ordinary player. In fact, Hughes, together with Benny Coulter, spent years running himself into the ground for limited Down teams which were stranded in the lower divisions and never managed a run in the championship. He won a well deserved All Star in 2010 when he finally got the chance to play in a decent side, and there was no doubt he was the best in the country in his position at that stage, but has had one injury after another since then.
Nrico also believes that Caolan Mooney and Shea McCartan `did nothing' at senior level, but they both actually left home at 18 to pursue sporting careers overseas. Mooney was briefly brought into the Down squad before he left, and scored a goal a matter of minutes after making his championship debut as a sub at Casement Park, but it might be reasonable to judge him if and when he ever starts a senior match for us.
See MH has to deny that Justin McMahon was off the panel. He said neither McMahon is likely to be involved in this game though.
I think I've seats in section M - any good?
Is this an all ticket match? What about the terrace?
By the way I wasn't moaning that Down were missing so many players. All teams have their issues. I was just highlighting what a pity it is for us not to be able to see our best team fielded. Especially when they are all fit and playing sport but just not available to our county selectors.
But on that point I forgot to add Keith Quinn and Gerrard McCartan who are both playing for New York instead of Down. McCartan probably wouldn't be on the team but two years ago he was a first choice starter. Quinn I think would have an excellent chance of starting at wing back due to his fielding ability (though he may be edged out by Garvey-Carr-McKernan).
So that's nine players I reckon would claim a starting spot that are not going to be stripping out. However I heard that McComiskey may be back in the fold, can anyone else say they heard the same?
Haven't heard anything bout McCumiskeys possible return but would be a big boost considering two of our main score getters would be rated as doubtful.
Would also be more inclined to think that the half back line would be Garvey, Carr, Rooney/Boyle with McKernan in the forward line.
I see SoN made his comeback last weekend for us
Scored two points in the second half
Down flying in training. Tyrone still don't have all their men back.
2008, Down beat Tyrone when Tyrone had a serious team.
I asked on the Tyrone thread if anyone knew how the county players got on for Tyrone at the weekend? Cavanaghs played well for the Moy, Ronan O'Neill flying for Omagh and most players seem to be fit and playing with the exception of Joe McMahon. Good to see McNabb, Justy, Stevie and Coney all playing at this time of year. Though this game may come too soon for Justy and Stevie.
Kyle Coney and Shay McGuigan are playing very well for Ardboe.Ronan O'Neill seems to be in great form also.
Quote from: whitegoodman on May 02, 2014, 11:25:15 AM
Haven't heard anything bout McCumiskeys possible return but would be a big boost considering two of our main score getters would be rated as doubtful.
Would also be more inclined to think that the half back line would be Garvey, Carr, Rooney/Boyle with McKernan in the forward line.
I also expect McKernan will play in the forwards or maybe midfield. But if we had all the players I listed previously then I think he would be in the halfback line in place of Rooney/Boyle. It's a serious amount of fully fit forwards that for one reason or another are not available.
Il have a stab at James first fifteen for Omagh
McVeigh
McCartan McArdle Boyle
Garvey Carr Rooney
McKernan Turley
McGinn Poland Rodgers
Laverty Madine Ohare
I dont think it will be far away from his selection, Mckernan and Rodgers might switch. Did McPartland from Glenn ever recover from his injury a good 12 or more months ago? I thought he looked very promising.
Colm Cavanagh with a mystery injury. Young McKenna spiked his tay.
I wonder how many of the 'old guard' will we see return for thus game.
Its strange how things change in that last year we were struggling for score taking forwards whereas this year (hopefully) we seem to have several in McCurry, RoN, Coney, Mattie, Sparky and even SoN coming back.
As many have already said It will be how our defence shapes up and do we have a plan in place. Will Block, Justy and maybe later Joey tighten things up.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Penrose back on our 40 helping out which to be honest I dread but we'll see.
I'd like to see
Morgan
PJ
Justy
McNamee
Clarke
Gormley
McNabb
Cavs x 2 or Joey
Petey
RoN
Mark D
McCurry
Coney
An other...He usually starts each year and plays well
I know I'm forgetting loads but am just awake
McNamee said to be out with a shoulder injury.
And no Joe according to the news this morn
tyrone have played alot of football this year without joe and mc namee, i think colm cavanagh not fully fit is the big issue for tyrone.
Colm really has been fantastic over the last 2 years and has blunted plenty of sharp tongues in the process. His covering work allowed Sean to shine last year and he'll be a big miss. We need a Sean Cavanagh on full throttle to stand a chance of progressing to latter stages of the AI. Hopefully Colm can shake off the niggle for the Down game.
Will I need a ticket for my 3 year old son for this game?
In the last 10 seasons Tyrone Down and Donegal have contested 5 out of 10 all Ireland finals.
Up Ulster!
Ardtole's predicted Down team looks a reasonable bet in most positions. However, Costello started the last five league games at corner back and has looked increasingly comfortable there. Boyle's pace is an asset at wing half and he may well squeeze out Rooney, who has only had an occasional run. James also likes to groom a fresh face for the championship. Very few people thought Madine would start our first match last summer, but he has certainly nailed down a place now. It would be no surprise if another newcomer appeared in Omagh.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 07, 2014, 09:51:21 PM
Ardtole's predicted Down team looks a reasonable bet in most positions. However, Costello started the last five league games at corner back and has looked increasingly comfortable there. Boyle's pace is an asset at wing half and he may well squeeze out Rooney, who has only had an occasional run. James also likes to groom a fresh face for the championship. Very few people thought Madine would start our first match last summer, but he has certainly nailed down a place now. It would be no surprise if another newcomer appeared in Omagh.
I'd hazard a punt that Burren's Conor Toner could be in from the start.
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 07, 2014, 03:26:43 PM
Colm really has been fantastic over the last 2 years and has blunted plenty of sharp tongues in the process. His covering work allowed Sean to shine last year and he'll be a big miss. We need a Sean Cavanagh on full throttle to stand a chance of progressing to latter stages of the AI. Hopefully Colm can shake off the niggle for the Down game.
Will I need a ticket for my 3 year old son for this game?
All ticket game!
Quote from: DownFanatic on May 07, 2014, 10:04:01 PM
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 07, 2014, 09:51:21 PM
Ardtole's predicted Down team looks a reasonable bet in most positions. However, Costello started the last five league games at corner back and has looked increasingly comfortable there. Boyle's pace is an asset at wing half and he may well squeeze out Rooney, who has only had an occasional run. James also likes to groom a fresh face for the championship. Very few people thought Madine would start our first match last summer, but he has certainly nailed down a place now. It would be no surprise if another newcomer appeared in Omagh.
I'd hazard a punt that Burren's Conor Toner could be in from the start.
You mightn't be far away with that punt. I'd also hazard a punt that one of the 6 forwards named by James will def not start !!!!
I thought about Costello alright, but in general there is not a whole lot of competition for places. Going by Irish News today the Tyrone game will probably be a bit early for OHagan, possibly a role from the bench for him. A bit unfortunate with injuries this year and loss of players for one reason or another. But in the bigger picture bar the top 5/6 counties at most, are players now beginning to priortise other things in their life, given the commitment that is now expected from county players. I think King, McCommiskey and Mallon couldnt commit for career/job reasons and you couldnt blame them.
We might be at a stage were the average player will commit for 5 years at most before standing aside due to the commitment required. There will always be lads too like Benny, laverty, mckernan who are there year in year out but they could become increasingly rare.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 07, 2014, 07:45:02 AM
I wonder how many of the 'old guard' will we see return for thus game.
Its strange how things change in that last year we were struggling for score taking forwards whereas this year (hopefully) we seem to have several in McCurry, RoN, Coney, Mattie, Sparky and even SoN coming back.
As many have already said It will be how our defence shapes up and do we have a plan in place. Will Block, Justy and maybe later Joey tighten things up.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Penrose back on our 40 helping out which to be honest I dread but we'll see.
I'd like to see
Morgan
PJ
Justy
McNamee
Clarke
Gormley
McNabb
Cavs x 2 or Joey
Petey
RoN
Mark D
McCurry
Coney
An other...He usually starts each year and plays well
I know I'm forgetting loads but am just awake
We've struggled with our work rate and ball winning ability in half forward line so I'd be happy enough to see Penrose start there. I also think Ronan O'Neill may be better suited to 15 coming out. Looking forward to seeing him as sounds like he's hit form at right time. If Coney can stay fit it must be the first time he's entered championship fit and ready to start.
You forgot to add Mattie Donnelly into your team. Also it sounds like McNamee is out injured and can't see Justy being up to speed just yet to start. So expect McBride to be full back. The corners appear to be a battle between PJ, McKenna and McRory. Carlin could have an outside chance but it appears unlikely based on the league. I think your full back line could be the best option if all fit.
Can't believe I missed Mattie but I knew I was missing a few others.
Despite the fact that we're all worried about our defensive capabilities if everyone was fit we've quite a bit of strength in depth now
Possible defenders pushing for a starting place
McGinley
McBride
Tierney
Carlin
Ryan McKenna
McCrory
McCann
Possible forwards pushing for a starting place
Penrose (I suspect Mickey will use him a lot this year to bolster the defence)
McAliskey (Seems to have fallen down the pecking order now that Coney is on form)
N.McKenna (I fear another frustrating season but who knows)
S.McGuigan (Personally I don't think he has done enough as yet to deserve his place)
PJ Lavery (Didn't get many chances in the league but I'd like to see more of him)
McNeice (Sorry Paddy but I can never see why you get so much chances compared to some)
Grugan (talented player but still to light for MF but maybe a sub CF or HF sub)
SoN (I think (biasedly) Stevie can maybe be our supersub this year & great man if he's not treble marked)
Being honest and not cutehooristic I think we will beat Down with a bit to spare. Of course MF again could be our downfall and the days of our half backs & HFs making up for a weak MF are long gone I fear. I really wish Joey would play there more but yes we'll miss Colm if he's out
I can see Penrose/Sparky and Petey playing wing forward so they can drop back like last year.
I think Mickey has got his reaction from the fans that he wanted during the league in that he tried the open style and yes we played much nicer football and hit big scores but it has made us all worried about going man to man and so he has the licence to revert to a defensive system again.
Then again who knows what Mickey will do from game to game.
I would be interested to hear what people's best starting 15 would be and maybe why you pick some people over others.
Lets say everyone was fit including Joey, Justy & Stevie.
If everyone was fully fit I think my team would look something like this:
Morgan
PJ Quinn
Justy
McNamee
McNabb
Gormley
Harte
Colm C
Joe Mc
Sean C
Mattie D (Playing deeper role running at defenses and leaving room for Ronan O'Neill to come out into)
Penrose
McCurry
Stevie O'Neill (assuming could get back on first half of last years form)
Ronan O'Neill
People would probably question some positions there but numbers on the team don't necessarily mean they'd play there. Joe would sit back round the centre of defence with Sean C spending good bit of time round the middle. If that team was fully fit and players on form it would give the All Ireland a rattle. However, as has been seen in recent years this is very unlikely. Of that team Justy, Joe, McNabb and O'Neill struggle to be consistently fit.
If they were fit it would leave great options on the bench like Clarke, Coney, McAliskey, Mark D etc.
Will this game be televised do you think?
Quote from: bogball88 on May 09, 2014, 08:54:13 AM
Will this game be televised do you think?
I think its on BBC anyway.
what is the first game that Sky are showing?
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 09, 2014, 08:57:38 AM
Quote from: bogball88 on May 09, 2014, 08:54:13 AM
Will this game be televised do you think?
I think its on BBC anyway.
what is the first game that Sky are showing?
KK and Offaly.
Redhand Santa's team
Morgan
PJ Quinn
Justy
McNamee
McNabb
Gormley
Harte
Colm C
Joe Mc
Sean C
Mattie D (Playing deeper role running at defenses and leaving room for Ronan O'Neill to come out into)
Penrose
McCurry
Stevie O'Neill (assuming could get back on first half of last years form)
Ronan O'Neill
I like the look of that team alright RHS, especially Joey at MF as not only is he a big lad who can field he can kick immense scores from far out and has good vision and passing as well. We know he can take his goal chances when they come and so whilst he's a great FB and CHB and sweeper too, he brings so much more to the attack when he's pushing forward. Even Clarke gets forward well and can kick points but Joey has that wee bit of finesse.
With Colm & Joey at MF we wouldn't be a push over any more in that sector which I think is crucial now as like I said before we don't have the Doohers, Jordan or anyone (maybe with the exception of Penrose) to hoover up breaking ball any more.
If you watch Colm he often goes up to punch with one hand and uses the other hand to hold a man off.
I expect another summer of wondering who is our best 6 defenders and where is the best positions for Big Sean, Mattie & Peter Harte again. All great players on their day and match winners but with all the chopping and changing they rarely get settled into one position. When Penrose first came on the scene he was quite prolific like McCurry but then he was brought back to help defend more and more.
Looking forward to the match on Sunday week as I was there in 2005 and there in 2008 v Down so hopefully history repeats itself. ;D
I think we've a better squad than we did last year and I hope we continue playing the more direct attacking style that we've saw in the league. However, should we get that far, I fear matches v Monaghan, Derry and Donegal will all be VERY tough battles and I won't lose too much sleep if we go back door again. Ulster plays Leinster this year in the AI semis so I'd rather be playing Dublin in the final as opposed to the semifinal. ;)
I hope McCurry stays fit and continues where he left off in the league. I'd love to see him, RoN, Coney, Mattie and even Stevie all competing for top scorer and being our new attacking threat for the years ahead.
No harm to the Tyrone lads but the two McMahons will never be at the level they where at in 08. Its wishful thinking talking about them making any lasting meaningful contribution, same with O'Neill too. For there own benefit they would be best away from the county setup and trying to get a run of games for Omagh under their belts.
Thanks Oakleafgael
I'll pass that on to Mickey as he probably doesn't see them as often as you or know what their capable of.
There's a number of ye from Derry sor and Armagh that can't wait to get rid of the two McMahons, Gormley and Stevie.
Is it just for the players own welfare that ye are all concerned for?
It is just one injury after another for those boys it seems. I wouldn't agree about Joe McMahon but the other two really struggle. What's the longest run of games O'Neill has had in the last say 5 years? Must be half a dozen max and that'd be round mckenna cup / early league? They're in a perpetual injury cycle. Justin McMahon pretty similar.
It's disappointing as I'd love to see O'Neill especially at the top of his game again.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 09, 2014, 11:59:20 AM
Thanks Oakleafgael
I'll pass that on to Mickey as he probably doesn't see them as often as you or know what their capable of.
There's a number of ye from Derry sor and Armagh that can't wait to get rid of the two McMahons, Gormley and Stevie.
Is it just for the players own welfare that ye are all concerned for?
No need for the attitude but over the last 3 or 4 years through injury they have contributed very little in Championship.
Im not included in that number.
I can only speak for myself but I think its not a great sight to see a topclass footballer struggling with injury/form.
Surely its the failure of Harte not to address these injury issues with able replacements post 08?
I would be extremely doubtful if Joe can get back to a level to be able to play county football this year.
Is Mickey able to add players to his squad or is it too late? Would like to see a few different defenders in
Quote from: WT4E on May 09, 2014, 02:12:24 PM
Is Mickey able to add players to his squad or is it too late? Would like to see a few different defenders in
Name them please.....
Jaysus lads either I've gone mad or ye know nothing about Tyrone players
Yes we all want the new lads to do well and Mickey has given them plenty chances during the league but I bet you it will be like last year where Gormley & Joey will be by far our best two defenders.
Yes Justy has had a horrid time since 08 and so it's hard to say how he'll do this year or will his dodgy hammies go again
All I'm saying it's that a bit like when Canavan retired all the Armagh boys were very relieved and when Oisin retired we all held a party too. ;D
Conor Gormley in my eyes is the only cute defender we have that can mix the ugly with the good football. Too many of our new bunch are all fine ball players but are far too nicey nice., esp the McMahons and Cavanaghs, possibly our 4 biggest men,
Yes the black card will take that to a new level now but teams like the Dubs will run straight through you if you have a few tough nuts in your team.
I really hate Donegal's style of play but there's one thing McGuiness has done to them and that's tightened up their defence. With the 2 McGees, McGlynn, Lacey and even Tompson they have some tough tackling defenders in there.
Teams who have done their homework will now know to run at Tyrone and go for goals. I think that's why it's crucial that we play more rugged hard hitting defenders who might lack the finesse of others. Look at Philly McMahon for the Dubs and even Cooper. Not shrinking violets by any means.
Quote from: Mikhailov on May 09, 2014, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 09, 2014, 02:12:24 PM
Is Mickey able to add players to his squad or is it too late? Would like to see a few different defenders in
Name them please.....
Id add one player.
Dean McNally, Kildress
are centra supervalue doing tickets for this game. im assuming its all ticket
The one defender that should be added is Marty Swift from Killyclogher.
Quote from: snoopdog on May 09, 2014, 10:18:26 PM
are centra supervalue doing tickets for this game. im assuming its all ticket
It is all ticket and as far as I know they are. Also sold through the gaa website.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 10, 2014, 05:19:53 PM
The one defender that should be added is Marty Swift from Killyclogher.
Assume he's back playing for Killyclogher then? Was a decent defender and if fully fit would be worth his place in the squad.
I picked my best team last week if everyone was fit. I'd say the following will be very close to the actual line out next week barring any further injuries:
Morgan
McRory
Clarke
McKenna
Gormley
Mattie D
Harte
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Penrose
McGuigan
Mark D
McCurry
Coney
R O'Neill
He could also be tempted with McBride and full back. Other than that based on the league its hard to see that selection being that far away. It wouldn't be my choice of full back lines. And I'd be very tempted to push Mattie Donnelly up the pitch.
I'll be very surprised if McGuigan starts and hope to God those two corner backs don't start and think McKenna might but Mc Crory not. Think PJ is our only decent man marker we have.
Some of the soundbites from players have been interesting lately. I've read a couple who openly discuss how susceptible they are defensively. I like that. Suggests the elephant in the room isn't going unnoticed.
Given that you cannot turn water into wine in terms of individuals, what do you think is the gameplan this year -
1 - 15 v 15 and attempt top outscore the opposition in a shoot-out
2 - Back to the noughties and flood the defence, leaving two forwards to do their work
No 1 will work against all but the top 6 sides.
Which would you rather see O'Neill?
I suspect Mickey will start of 15 v 15 but if a team has an outstanding forward that is doing massive damage then I'd expect a man to be sacrificed from the forward line to double mark him or play a sweeper.
Do you remember how he used to handle marking Paddy Bradley where he would play a man in front of him to cut of the supply. I don't mind playing a sweeper as long as we then kick pass the ball more directly when we get possession and not this bloody rugby league style sh*te of running the ball up the field.
I'd like to see Coney start on Sunday and I'd also see McBride get a run as I've yet to see him.
I know he's big and strong but would he be any good in the corners at marking a man.
How long is McNamee out for? What's the latest on Colm Cav?
Conor G played in the wing a lot last year. Do ye think he's better there than in the middle?
Why did Mickey move him out of CHB?
Out of the team that played Derry in the 1st league game, how many are potential starters this weekend?
I think McGinley will get a starting jersey in the half back line. Gormley may start on the bench, although he may be named in one of the corners.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on May 12, 2014, 11:59:23 AM
Out of the team that played Derry in the 1st league game, how many are potential starters this weekend?
Tyrone: N Morgan, A McCrory, C Clarke, B Tierney, C McGinley, P Harte, R McNabb, D McBride, C Grugan, N McKenna, S McGuigan, PJ Lavery, D McCurry, M Donnelly, P McNeice.
Out of that team I'd say certain starters would be:
Morgan
Clarke
Harte
McCurry
Mattie Donnelly
Maybes:
McCrory
McGinley
McNabb
McGuigan
Would be very surprised if any of the rest make the first 15.
Quote from: God14 on May 09, 2014, 03:19:49 PM
Quote from: Mikhailov on May 09, 2014, 02:41:49 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 09, 2014, 02:12:24 PM
Is Mickey able to add players to his squad or is it too late? Would like to see a few different defenders in
Name them please.....
Id add one player.
Dean McNally, Kildress
I was thinking of dean McNally. He played corner back on the county star studded jordanstow. Team this year didn't he. Also swift should come back in. Big problems in defence this year!!
Up Down.
Classic Jinx. Never heard that wan before.
Are you going UP to it?
Should be a good day out.
The minors usually serve up a classic game
Hope Down minors give Tyrone minors a better game than they did in the Ulster league. Was at the game and Down minors didn't look as strong as last years team and thought Tyrone looked every bit as good as the previous year. Although teams always seem to find a little bit extra come championship time. Hopefully we see two good games of football.
Justin with a big shout to start this weekend. Been playing well in club games and upped his game at county training.
There will be one or two surprises in the team this weekend.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 13, 2014, 08:15:23 AM
Justin with a big shout to start this weekend. Been playing well in club games and upped his game at county training.
There will be one or two surprises in the team this weekend.
Justin the nick of time :-)
Tyrone by 7 :-(
Summers on us men, thank christ
Conor Deegan, the cute hoor...
Conor Deegan downbeat about Down's Ulster championship hopes
Former All-Ireland winning player believes size of panel will hamper county's gameplan
Seán Moran
Down All-Ireland winner Conor Deegan believes his county is up against it in next weekend's opening Ulster championship match against Tyrone in Omagh. He sees his county's problems as being largely linked to resources and feels the team and manager James McCartan haven't done badly in the context of its limitations.
"To be honest I thought it was as much as Down would have done this year," he said in response to a question about the county's season to date, a comfortable finish in Division Two that fell short of promotion. "I think they've done quite well in many ways. James has them playing at the moment to their max so it is what I had expected this year.
"We don't have the numbers of players coming through – we can't afford injuries and we can't afford one or two players dropping off and things of that nature. It'll be difficult and you'd fancy Tyrone to beat them but with the forwards that we have, you never know; you always have a chance."
It's 20 years since McCartan and Deegan played pivotal roles in Down's most recent All-Ireland success, McCartan the goal scorer in the final win against Dublin and Deegan hugely effective having been switched from full back, where he won an All Star in 1991, to centrefield.
Down beat Tyrone in that year's Ulster final but the county – the province's most successful in modern times – hasn't added a provincial title in the meantime although in McCartan's first year as manager they reached the All-Ireland and ran Cork very close.
Player losses
That team fell prey to injury and emigration and a couple of up-and-coming players – most notably 2010 All Star Martin Clarke – ended up in Australia with AFL clubs. The Down tradition of accomplished forward play has had to give way to harsher realities. "If you look at last year," says Deegan, "James went ultra-defensive and started dropping bodies back. It should suit them. Down notoriously has liked to play an expansive style of football and I would suggest that that's dependent on your having the players available to do that.
"We're running off a very small panel and if one or two players aren't playing well or are injured they start to struggle. Being very blunt I can't see them winning Ulster this year.
"You always hope they'd produce a big performance on a good day and you'd hope the sun was out and it wasn't wet and give them half a chance because there's no doubt that Down produce good footballers . . . but I think defensively we're not as strong as we need to be to compete with the big boys. I think that's pretty evident."
Down have suffered from the premature break-up of their 2010 team and although the county can draw on two famous football academies in Newry, St Colman's and Abbey CBS – "but they would have developed half of Armagh as well," points out Deegan – and a decent minor tradition, under-age success comes only sporadically.
"It is every now and then and I think that's the problem," he says. "If we want to be realistic about it we have to start looking at the developmental side of things, what the big counties are doing. Obviously I live in Dublin so I know what Dublin are doing and they're just producing development squad after squad after squad.
'Numbers games'
"That's why they've won three of the last five 21s, why in recent years they're competing at minor level. That's the recipe but again that's a numbers game and being able to keep throwing numbers at it. Down's a small county from a playing point of view and it's very hard to keep pushing it."
Deegan has been involved in Dublin football since coming south and manages his own club Kilmacud Crokes. He is also an analyst for Newstalk radio. Whatever about his concerns for Down, he sees a bright future for their opponents next Sunday. "Tyrone are not going to be far away this year, certainly in Ulster. They've a fantastic manager who knows how to get the best out of them. I believe they've a team that will cause problems this year for somebody in the latter stages of the championship."
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/conor-deegan-downbeat-about-down-s-ulster-championship-hopes-1.1792565
I see in the IN today Morgan says Tyrone will not be reverting to a sweeper system.
He also says he will be trying to focus on his own game from now on and not be playing to the crowd.
I'd so love to see Mickey shock us all and play Justy at MF.
Can't see it though
Maybe he'll heed the Derry wans sor and retire the two aul McMahons for glue
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 13, 2014, 02:41:26 PM
I see in the IN today Morgan says Tyrone will not be reverting to a sweeper system.
He also says he will be trying to focus on his own game from now on and not be playing to the crowd.
I'd so love to see Mickey shock us all and play Justy at MF.
Can't see it though
Maybe he'll heed the Derry wans sorry and retire the two aul McMahons for glue
Would love to see both back fully fit. Always thought justy was the more naturally gifted of the two but Joe the more effective. What age is Joe now? 30?
Joe is 30.
I don't like the look of the team Archer has picked in the Irish News
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 13, 2014, 08:26:20 PM
I don't like the look of the team Archer has picked in the Irish News
Name it.
I will have a stab at the team- not the time Under Lights would pick but the one I think MH will.
1. Morgan
2. Aidan McRory
3. Justin McMahon
4. Ryan McKenna
5. Ciaran McGinley
6. Matthew Donnelly
7. Peter Harte
8. Connor Clarke
9. Colm Cavanagh
10. Martin Penrose
11. Sean Cavanagh
12. Patrick McNeice
13. Darren McCurry
14. Niall McKenna
15. Kyle Coney
Personally I would have Ronan O'Neill, Conor McAliskey and Conor Gormley starting but I just have a hunch about someone like McKenna at full forward- alternatively he could revert Mattie back to FF and bring in Gormley but I just don't think he will start Gormely.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 13, 2014, 08:26:20 PM
I don't like the look of the team Archer has picked in the Irish News
Name it.
I will have a stab at the team- not the time Under Lights would pick but the one I think MH will.
1. Morgan
2. Aidan McRory
3. Justin McMahon
4. Ryan McKenna
5. Ciaran McGinley
6. Matthew Donnelly
7. Peter Harte
8. Connor Clarke
9. Colm Cavanagh
10. Martin Penrose
11. Sean Cavanagh
12. Patrick McNeice
13. Darren McCurry
14. Niall McKenna
15. Kyle Coney
Personally I would have Ronan O'Neill, Conor McAliskey and Conor Gormley starting but I just have a hunch about someone like McKenna at full forward- alternatively he could revert Mattie back to FF and bring in Gormley but I just don't think he will start Gormely.
Mark Donnelly injured?
That team is rank
Quote from: Wee Roddy on May 14, 2014, 09:19:37 AM
That team is rank
Just a hunch. A HUNCH.
As I said not the team I would pick. I would probably go for Morgan, Conzo, Justin, McRory, McGinley, Gormley, Harte, Colm, Sean, Mattie Donnelly, Ronan O'Neill, Penrose, McCurry, Coney, McAliskey.
i don't think there will be much change to the tyrone team from the teams that had been chosen towards the end of the league. The full back line is the worry if we have a fairly protective half back line that will gain posession it will make a big difference. The midfield will pick its self and who ever starts in the forwards can be replaced with a decent sub if that guy isn't up to much on the day.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 13, 2014, 08:26:20 PM
I don't like the look of the team Archer has picked in the Irish News
Name it.
I will have a stab at the team- not the time Under Lights would pick but the one I think MH will.
1. Morgan
2. Aidan McRory
3. Justin McMahon
4. Ryan McKenna
5. Ciaran McGinley
6. Matthew Donnelly
7. Peter Harte
8. Connor Clarke
9. Colm Cavanagh
10. Martin Penrose
11. Sean Cavanagh
12. Patrick McNeice
13. Darren McCurry
14. Niall McKenna
15. Kyle Coney
Personally I would have Ronan O'Neill, Conor McAliskey and Conor Gormley starting but I just have a hunch about someone like McKenna at full forward- alternatively he could revert Mattie back to FF and bring in Gormley but I just don't think he will start Gormely.
Your doing to much talking to people close to the set up to be posting on here mate
I think last years championship highlighted Tyrone's need for a ball winning full forward and allow others to feed off that. I like the way Donnelly worked in that role in the league but I also feel we need him out around the middle. That's why I have a feeling that he could go for someone like McKenna who has been doing this for Donaghmore- he kicked 1-6 last week against Killyclogher and seems in great shape- I would love to see Sean in at 14 with Ronan O'Neill at 11 but again I think MH would want Cavanagh out around the middle and to run at teams.
Corner backs are hard to pick. With Justin playing well for Omagh last few weeks I'm just hazarding he will be fit enough, still think he's the best we have- Joe missing is a big loss too. Our midfield options are actually limited if you don't just play the two cavanaghs in there. Suppose McKenna could be out around the middle to free up Sean. I would like to see Connor Clarke there but he hasn't really been used there in the league so bit of a punt for me there.
Down are 25/1 for the Ulster Championship.
That is all.
So much chit chat about Tyrone and nathin about Down.
Probably the way Wee James would prefer it.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 10:31:13 AM
I think last years championship highlighted Tyrone's need for a ball winning full forward and allow others to feed off that. I like the way Donnelly worked in that role in the league but I also feel we need him out around the middle. That's why I have a feeling that he could go for someone like McKenna who has been doing this for Donaghmore- he kicked 1-6 last week against Killyclogher and seems in great shape- I would love to see Sean in at 14 with Ronan O'Neill at 11 but again I think MH would want Cavanagh out around the middle and to run at teams.
Corner backs are hard to pick. With Justin playing well for Omagh last few weeks I'm just hazarding he will be fit enough, still think he's the best we have- Joe missing is a big loss too. Our midfield options are actually limited if you don't just play the two cavanaghs in there. Suppose McKenna could be out around the middle to free up Sean. I would like to see Connor Clarke there but he hasn't really been used there in the league so bit of a punt for me there.
I think his catching could let him down if he went to midfield. He seems to break it more than ever grabbing a high ball with both hands. I Clarke is fit he has to play.
Did Clarke play at number 3 against Kildare in the league this year ?
Fancy this game to go down to the wire and Down at 7/2 to win this game are a huge price.
I really can't see Mickey leaving out Justy or Gormley. Both would add great experience to the defence which is lacking in solidness.
I am a bit surprised how many of ye are naming McCrory before PJ Quinn or even Carlin.
I think Mickey successfully used a good smattering of younger lads in the league and we almost made the playoffs.
I expect on Sunday to say at some stage of the game
Morgan
???
Clarke to start and Justy to come on
PJ
McGinley
Gormley
Harte
Cavanaghs x 2
Penrose
Mattie
Mark D (McKenna coming on)
McCurry
Coney (SON) coming on
Ronnie McAliskey coming on
I will be very annoyed if McNeice gets on before any of those listed above and I'll become Mickey's new midnight caller
Huge lift for Down with new of Dan Gordan's, would be shocked if he started though, he will probably play last 20mins or so depending on how the game is going!
Are Down playing this sunday too?
Or is it just Tyrone.
Sure tomorrow night will end all the speculation.
Quote from: sensethetone on May 14, 2014, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 10:31:13 AM
I think last years championship highlighted Tyrone's need for a ball winning full forward and allow others to feed off that. I like the way Donnelly worked in that role in the league but I also feel we need him out around the middle. That's why I have a feeling that he could go for someone like McKenna who has been doing this for Donaghmore- he kicked 1-6 last week against Killyclogher and seems in great shape- I would love to see Sean in at 14 with Ronan O'Neill at 11 but again I think MH would want Cavanagh out around the middle and to run at teams.
Corner backs are hard to pick. With Justin playing well for Omagh last few weeks I'm just hazarding he will be fit enough, still think he's the best we have- Joe missing is a big loss too. Our midfield options are actually limited if you don't just play the two cavanaghs in there. Suppose McKenna could be out around the middle to free up Sean. I would like to see Connor Clarke there but he hasn't really been used there in the league so bit of a punt for me there.
I think his catching could let him down if he went to midfield. He seems to break it more than ever grabbing a high ball with both hands. I Clarke is fit he has to play.
SenseTheTone Slates Conzo ClarkeAvid Tyrone fan SenseTheTone, 34, sent shockwaves through the county today with a sentential outburst against one of his counties own players.
The GAAboard contributor questioned Conor 'Conzo' Clarke's ability to adjust to the haven that is intercounty midfield stating that 'his catching could let him down'.
The Tone, as he is known by friends, alluded that he believed Conor was more of a spoiler and out to break up play than trying to play himself.
Clarke burst unto the county scene in 2012 and was deemed to be able to hold his own against some of the country's best players. Despite The Tone's opinion many real fans of Tyrone will hope that Clarke can go on to be a regular fixture in the team no matter what the position.
Under Lights reporting.
Quote from: Ed Hardy on May 14, 2014, 04:20:51 PM
Huge lift for Down with new of Dan Gordan's, would be shocked if he started though, he will probably play last 20mins or so depending on how the game is going!
he is starting
cant decide which of the teams I want to lose the most
both are a hateful shower ;D
Mickey is wiser than Yoda and has the patience of Job.
Wee James has the patience of a doorman in the Canal Court and is about as wise as the hallions they put out of the CC for fighting.
Don't think there's much doubt re the outcome on Sunday.
I hear Justin Gormley is in and looking to pick up Benny Coulter.
Is it true that Jamie Clarke & Seanie Johnston have both got new jobs in GAP in the outlet in Banbridge this week and both hope to line out this Sunday in Omagh wearing the aristocats ref and white outfit.
Both we're brought in quickly as a new advertising venture from GAP this week as an opportunity was spotted in the Tyrone defence from the last two months.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 04:27:08 PM
Sure tomorrow night will end all the speculation.
Quote from: sensethetone on May 14, 2014, 11:07:22 AM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 10:31:13 AM
I think last years championship highlighted Tyrone's need for a ball winning full forward and allow others to feed off that. I like the way Donnelly worked in that role in the league but I also feel we need him out around the middle. That's why I have a feeling that he could go for someone like McKenna who has been doing this for Donaghmore- he kicked 1-6 last week against Killyclogher and seems in great shape- I would love to see Sean in at 14 with Ronan O'Neill at 11 but again I think MH would want Cavanagh out around the middle and to run at teams.
Corner backs are hard to pick. With Justin playing well for Omagh last few weeks I'm just hazarding he will be fit enough, still think he's the best we have- Joe missing is a big loss too. Our midfield options are actually limited if you don't just play the two cavanaghs in there. Suppose McKenna could be out around the middle to free up Sean. I would like to see Connor Clarke there but he hasn't really been used there in the league so bit of a punt for me there.
I think his catching could let him down if he went to midfield. He seems to break it more than ever grabbing a high ball with both hands. I Clarke is fit he has to play.
SenseTheTone Slates Conzo Clarke
Avid Tyrone fan SenseTheTone, 34, sent shockwaves through the county today with a sentential outburst against one of his counties own players.
The GAAboard contributor questioned Conor 'Conzo' Clarke's ability to adjust to the haven that is intercounty midfield stating that 'his catching could let him down'.
The Tone, as he is known by friends, alluded that he believed Conor was more of a spoiler and out to break up play than trying to play himself.
Clarke burst unto the county scene in 2012 and was deemed to be able to hold his own against some of the country's best players. Despite The Tone's opinion many real fans of Tyrone will hope that Clarke can go on to be a regular fixture in the team no matter what the position.
Under Lights reporting.AKA Paddy Hunter[
my post should have read If Clarke is fit he has to play, I think he's best used in the half back line
Try and get behind the team Tone instead of running down our lads. Thanks.
Sky Sports News have done a small piece on the game!
http://www1.skysports.com/gaelic-football/news/30543/9311516/gaa-down-captain-mark-poland-targets-winning-start-against-tyrone-in-ulster-opener
This could be a classic on Sunday. But very unlikely.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 14, 2014, 04:21:13 PM
Are Down playing this sunday too?
Or is it just Tyrone.
Brick,
Down are playing and in the words of Mr Keegan.........
(http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/keeganrant_450x300.jpg)
Aristo if you click that image icon under the Bold button and put that link inside the tag your PIC will show up.
I think the Down fans must be all Liverpool fans as they've learnt to keep their powder dry this time.
The Mayo lads told me last year what's the point in playing the cute hoor game and not enjoying all the games up to the final.
Do you really believe fans on here mouthing off makes one but of difference to how the teams play nowadays.
I'd say most Down fans expect a bit of a roasting as they don't have all their big players any more. Of course I remember 08 and 05 but do you also remember the replay in Clones in 03 was it?
I think you will see 4 Omagh lads named tonight with Tierney getting the corner back slot.
Ive already set the TV to record SideBum Silky Stories
Bit of a debate on the cards up at Garvaghey tonight for the Club Tyrone members' evening. Sean O'Neill will be debating the game with Enda McGinley, with Conal Martin the man in the middle.
Mickey will come in and name the starting team then and answer a few questions.
Should be fun.
Should be a handy enough win for Tyrone. Can see a much better and tighter defence and a big score racked up.
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 15, 2014, 01:55:02 PM
Should be a handy enough win for Tyrone. Can see a much better and tighter defence and a big score racked up.
Ah I enjoy you nrico.
Big blow in the build up to the game, it seems big Sean has transferred to Derry :'(
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/
Ahh that's why the Derry WANs Hi are so plucky recently.
What sort of a deal did ye offer him Walt?
Is he in to help yer shooting or last ditch tackling?
His brother is the better of the two anyway so we're both happy.
Good luck v Funegal. Who do you want in the qualifiers?
Feel confident for Down this weekend. Lot of work going into it from what I gather and lets face it, this is not the Tyrone team who won the All Irelands. Yes they are organised and hard working, but they have yet to show the same qualities that the great teams did. Hard to beat the Championship weekend!!!
Down team named on Destination Newry as McVeigh; McCartan, McArdle, Boyle; Rooney, Carr, Garvey; Turley, Rogers; Maginn, Poland, McKernan; O'Hare, Madine, Coulter.
It's not clear if Gordon is even in the squad after all the talk, although James does like to make a late change or two.
Quote from: Mourne Rover on May 15, 2014, 08:14:08 PM
Down team named on Destination Newry as McVeigh; McCartan, McArdle, Boyle; Rooney, Carr, Garvey; Turley, Rogers; Maginn, Poland, McKernan; O'Hare, Madine, Coulter.
It's not clear if Gordon is even in the squad after all the talk, although James does like to make a late change or two.
He wasn't too sure about his subs though! Either that or thats where he's keeping the surprises.
ta fuzz
I'd say Benny better enjoy this game as I'd say from here on he'll have swarm defence
Fcuk sake lads it's wee James we're talking about here. There's more chance of Liverpoo winning the league than that team starting.
Can't believe it
McNeice again and Niall McKenna at FF
What does he see in McNeice? Will he play defensively
Am surprised no Mark D.
Funny when Mickey started saying this is a dummy team as Sean ONeill is here listening
Very surprised at Niall McKenna at FF. How do ye expect him to play there or will he move out around the middle.
Comórtas: Craobh na Sinsear
Cluiche: Tír Eoghain v An Dún
Ionad: Páirc Uí hÉilí, An Omaigh
Dáta: 18-05-14
1 - Niall Morgan - Éadan na dTorc
2 - Aidan McCrory - Aireagal Chiaráin
3 - Danny McBride - An Srath Ban
4 - Barry Tierney - An Omaigh
5 - Tiernan McCann - Coill an Chlochair
6 - Matthew Donnelly - Trí Leac
7 - Peter Harte - Aireagal Chiaráin
8 - Colm Cavanagh - An Mhaigh
9 - Conor Clarke - An Omaigh
10 - Patrick McNeice - Oileán a'Ghuail
11 - Sean Cavanagh - An Mhaigh
12 - Ciaran McGinley - Aireagal Chiaráin
13 - Darren McCurry - Éadán na dTorc
14 - Niall McKenna - Domhnach Mór
15 - Kyle Coney - Ard Bó
16 - Michael O'Neill - Cluain Eo
17 - Dermot Carlin - Coill an Chlochair
18 - Mark Donnelly - An Charraig Mhór
19 - Conor Gormley - An Charraig Mhór
20 - Conan Grugan - An Omaigh
21 - Peter Hughes - Eiscreach
22 - Plunkett Kane - Oileán a'Ghuail
23 - PJ Lavery - Cluain Eo
24 - Connor McAliskey - Cluain Eo
25 - Shay McGuigan - Ard Bó
26 - Emmett McKenna - Eaglais
Hmmm...Ronan O'Neill out?
Hard to know what to believe, naming teams a bit of a waste of time. Suppose it gives us something to talk about.
Hoganstand saying this will be Coney's Championship debut, can that be right?
Very surprising team.
Sounds like a dud side.
Quote from: ONeill on May 15, 2014, 10:24:24 PM
Hmmm...Ronan O'Neill out?
Subs done alphabetically (apart from sub keeper)
Really surprising team and certainly wouldn't be one I'd be picking. I just can't see what McNeice has ever done in a county senior jersey to be starting. Similarly McKenna is very lucky to be starting after never really taking his chances. Hope both can prove me wrong and have big games. At the minute I'm very surprised they're both on ahead of Ronan O'Neill.
I thought Tierney was a decent prospect earlier in the year but he hasn't been seen since his man got 3 goals in the Kerry game so wasn't expecting to see him. Clarke at 9 and Cavanagh at 11 didn't happen during the league. Although who knows if that's where they'll play. Would be surprised to see Coney playing at left corner forward so perhaps he's dropping out.
Although I'm a bit disappointed with the team there is plenty of options on the bench if under pressure.
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
Quote from: ONeill on May 15, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
From the first 15 though....odd.
True, something of the decoy about that named team though.
Mickey not a decoy sorta fella. Not sure of side I'd imagine, probably down to niggles. Niall at FF? I think he played there v Derry in the NFL a few years ago. McBride at FB was predicted but why not Clarke....suggests he wants power from 8-15 by having him alongside Colm....worried about a cleaning out around the middle? A few riddles indeed.
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
It's well seen Niall McKenna is full forward - you've been questioning his selection for years! I'm not convinced with the team and a lot of aspects of it but happy to let Harte do his job. For years everyone questioned the wisdom of Colm Cavanagh being on and he eventually proved his worth. Even the likes of Mark Donnelly was criticised before he started playing at a decent standard.
If county managers really wanted to confuse each other they should just name the teams they want to start with. No one would expect that
May as well give Clarke a chance at midfield, he's a big strong athlete so has all the physical attributes in an area where we have struggled a bit - I'm actually quite interested to see how he gets on out there. My main concern would be that full back line, I would imagine it will be well protected by our wing forwards.
The build up to this game in Down has unbelievably low key.
Always feel It's important not to criticise players before the game as they need confidence to succeed. For some of them players it is praise they need not negative stuff sant.
quote author=Redhand Santa link=topic=24536.msg1352080#msg1352080 date=1400191575]
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
It's well seen Niall McKenna is full forward - you've been questioning his selection for years! I'm not convinced with the team and a lot of aspects of it but happy to let Harte do his job. For years everyone questioned the wisdom of Colm Cavanagh being on and he eventually proved his worth. Even the likes of Mark Donnelly was criticised before he started playing at a decent standard.
[/quote]
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 11:14:13 PM
Always feel It's important not to criticise players before the game as they need confidence to succeed. For some of them players it is praise they need not negative stuff sant.
quote author=Redhand Santa link=topic=24536.msg1352080#msg1352080 date=1400191575]
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
It's well seen Niall McKenna is full forward - you've been questioning his selection for years! I'm not convinced with the team and a lot of aspects of it but happy to let Harte do his job. For years everyone questioned the wisdom of Colm Cavanagh being on and he eventually proved his worth. Even the likes of Mark Donnelly was criticised before he started playing at a decent standard.
[/quote]
Feck, RRHF, we've won All-Irelands whilst being written off on the gaaboard (and even RTE). I don't think the squad is glued to this thread.
The way I'm reading that team is that Tyrone could well start with a fairly defensive set up. Paddy McNeice when Harte has used him in the championship usually drops fairly deep. The other wing forward, Ciaran McGinley, is naturally a defender and Niall McKenna's usually happier operating around midfield. It wouldn't surprise anyone if he was opting to give the full back line more cover would it?
Mickey Harte IS as likely to change a team before throw in as any other manager in the country. He could make changes, but when he names a team as different as that it might well be the team to start.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 15, 2014, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
It's well seen Niall McKenna is full forward - you've been questioning his selection for years! I'm not convinced with the team and a lot of aspects of it but happy to let Harte do his job. For years everyone questioned the wisdom of Colm Cavanagh being on and he eventually proved his worth. Even the likes of Mark Donnelly was criticised before he started playing at a decent standard.
How long are you happy for MH to do the job? We have won nothing since 2010 and been hammered by all the top teams.
Noel McGinn was saying on Teamtalk afterwards that McKenna scored 1.05 from FF for his club recently. I'd say Mickey is picking the team on current form and he said they play a lot of in house games so he sees a lot more than we do.
I bet that time does start but am shocked at some of the bug names that missed out. But with 6 dubs now maybe he's thinking of his finishing team. Who will pick up Coulter?
McBride or Tierney?
Mickey will determine when its time to leave I'd say. It will be a brave man to ask him to step down.
Where can you Down lads see ye winning this game?
MF? Scoring goals against a very inexperienced defence.
Our forwards will score goals, if we can get good quick delivery to them. Hope Down throw caution to the wind and go for an all out attacking game,keep Tyrone on the back foot as much as possible
Down (SFC v Tyrone) - Brendan McVeigh; Daniel McCartan, Brendan McArdle, Ryan Boyle; Declan Rooney, Aidan Carr, Conor Garvey; Peter Turley, Ambrose Rogers; Conor Maginn, Mark Poland, Kevin McKernan; Donal O'Hare, Niall Madine, Brendan Coulter.
The fact the MH can't pick his match day squad really grinds my gears. Ronan O'Neill is likely to get on but not officially named in the programme. Tyrone are fined for this I believe. It's not the fine that bothers me but its the fact that MH can't just grow a set and pick the 26.
I take it that all the experts on here attend all the in house games where the team selection takes place?
Maybe we should wait until Sunday to see 1 the team that starts and 2 the result.
Sometimes you wonder what use the League is - if we look at our spine we pick a full back who had 1 game there. A midfielder who played at full back during the league, a centre half forward who hasn't played there before plus a full forward who didn't play there in the league. We have 3 chfs in the squad and none of them are picked. We've 2 half forwards who are going to end up playing half back so we've got to assume that either the ball's going to be hoist long to the full forward line or Sean Cavanagh is going to end up being a very tired link man. Given that the half forwards won't be up in attack then Down can sacrifice a man to stick tight to Sean. All our attacking problems over the last few years have been down to not having half forwards which kept the oppositions half backs honest. Hopefully I've read this all wrong - Still expect to win but it looks like we've gone back into the laager
Horses for courses I would imagine will be the order of the day in a lot of championship matches this summer.
Quote from: orangeman on May 16, 2014, 09:53:54 AM
Horses for courses I would imagine will be the order of the day in a lot of championship matches this summer.
I would agree with that. I don't think this is the team Mickey would pick against Monaghan / Derry / Donegal but at home against a smaller team who don't play a blanket defence he may see this as a chance to try something which is working in training.
Quote from: reddgnhand on May 16, 2014, 12:01:40 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 15, 2014, 11:06:15 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 15, 2014, 10:50:26 PM
Strongest spine on a Tyrone team I've seen for a couple of years. Good luck to the lads., lot of men here think they know more than mickey so ill sit back and listen to their wisdom. Down won't be easy. Keep the faith Santa.
It's well seen Niall McKenna is full forward - you've been questioning his selection for years! I'm not convinced with the team and a lot of aspects of it but happy to let Harte do his job. For years everyone questioned the wisdom of Colm Cavanagh being on and he eventually proved his worth. Even the likes of Mark Donnelly was criticised before he started playing at a decent standard.
How long are you happy for MH to do the job? We have won nothing since 2010 and been hammered by all the top teams.
A lot of teams have won nothing from 2010. Are our players that much better?
Mickey is not infallable anad has got it spectacularly wrong on occasion but I would let him do the job until someone else comes along and proves himself, e.g. wins an All-Ireland u-21. We have had a number of management set-up's which have failed to win with good minor teams at this transition stage.
I am told that this is virtually the same team that was selected last week as the first team in a training game. The subs beat them apparently so the hints from various sources on here all week from a Tyrone perspective were correct. When we were winning stuff, the panel was tight and no one could second guess Tyrones team. A lot of the speculation was coming from our Omagh posters and they got a couple of surprises correct. Perhaps someone from Omagh needs to keep the gob quiet when he comes home from training
Quote from: Knock Yer Mucker In on May 14, 2014, 10:11:38 AM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 14, 2014, 08:46:54 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 13, 2014, 08:26:20 PM
I don't like the look of the team Archer has picked in the Irish News
Name it.
I will have a stab at the team- not the time Under Lights would pick but the one I think MH will.
1. Morgan
2. Aidan McRory
3. Justin McMahon
4. Ryan McKenna
5. Ciaran McGinley
6. Matthew Donnelly
7. Peter Harte
8. Connor Clarke
9. Colm Cavanagh
10. Martin Penrose
11. Sean Cavanagh
12. Patrick McNeice
13. Darren McCurry
14. Niall McKenna
15. Kyle Coney
Personally I would have Ronan O'Neill, Conor McAliskey and Conor Gormley starting but I just have a hunch about someone like McKenna at full forward- alternatively he could revert Mattie back to FF and bring in Gormley but I just don't think he will start Gormely.
Your doing to much talking to people close to the set up to be posting on here mate
As I said you doing to much talking on here, and have been talking to someone close to the camp.
I think that's as weak a Tyrone team as I've seen in the Championship for a long time I reckon Sunday will be interesting!
I have to agree with wee roddy on someone keeping the gob shut. I've known some Tyrone players in the past and they give very little away when your talking to them and anything they would give away I would generally keep quiet until after the game!
I have concerns about the team as have most, I hope I'm proved wrong but worried about the following:
FB Line (particularly McBride)
T McCann
P McNeice
No harm to those above but I think there are better options on the bench and I fully expect Harte not to change his team before the throw in. One of the things I think MH is about is the fact that if he hears that people want him to do something he will do the opposite.
After seeing the team Down look great value at 4/1 even though I wouldn't have the heart to do it!
Hopefully Tyrone win and Dan McCartan gets a lovely roasting that would be the ideal for me!!!
Think that's roughly 12 of the team that played Derry in Celtic Park at the start of the league. I wouldn't think Derry had 12 of their championship team on that night.
Why do ye not like Dan McCartan?
Regarding team selection? How would it matter if someone guesses the team a few days before announcement? McKenna full forward for Donaghmore this year- kicked 1-6 against Killyclogher.
Matty Donnelly CHB last few games of the league.
I actually don't know anyone personally that is on the Tyrone panel. Heard during the week that McKenna playing well at full forward at in house games and that Conzo was midfield in the A team last weekend. As you all know these things have a habit of getting out and it was discussed in many places- offices, message forums, social networks.
I hope my guessing the few positions on a tuesday before the team named doesnt stop Tyrone winning.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 11:11:16 AM
Why do ye not like Dan McCartan?
Remember him in his student days in Belfast - Couldn't warm to him - nothing major! lol
Did ye know him personally or just make a judgement from afar.
Just curious.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 11:55:52 AM
Did ye know him personally or just make a judgement from afar.
Just curious.
I made a judgement from afar Dan - I'm sure your dead on really! :D
Quote from: WT4E on May 16, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
I have to agree with wee roddy on someone keeping the gob shut. I've known some Tyrone players in the past and they give very little away when your talking to them and anything they would give away I would generally keep quiet until after the game!
I have concerns about the team as have most, I hope I'm proved wrong but worried about the following:
FB Line (particularly McBride)
T McCann
P McNeice
No harm to those above but I think there are better options on the bench and I fully expect Harte not to change his team before the throw in. One of the things I think MH is about is the fact that if he hears that people want him to do something he will do the opposite.
After seeing the team Down look great value at 4/1 even though I wouldn't have the heart to do it!
Hopefully Tyrone win and Dan McCartan gets a lovely roasting that would be the ideal for me!!!
I have to disagree with you there, out of that full back line selected, i would have the least concern about mcbride!
Im not sure what that says though....
McBride is a potential long term full back. Strong, athletic and good on the ball. If anything I am glad to see him there.
I could see Marty Swift joining up with the panel in the near future.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 16, 2014, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 16, 2014, 10:38:41 AM
I have to agree with wee roddy on someone keeping the gob shut. I've known some Tyrone players in the past and they give very little away when your talking to them and anything they would give away I would generally keep quiet until after the game!
I have concerns about the team as have most, I hope I'm proved wrong but worried about the following:
FB Line (particularly McBride)
T McCann
P McNeice
No harm to those above but I think there are better options on the bench and I fully expect Harte not to change his team before the throw in. One of the things I think MH is about is the fact that if he hears that people want him to do something he will do the opposite.
After seeing the team Down look great value at 4/1 even though I wouldn't have the heart to do it!
Hopefully Tyrone win and Dan McCartan gets a lovely roasting that would be the ideal for me!!!
I have to disagree with you there, out of that full back line selected, i would have the least concern about mcbride!
Im not sure what that says though....
I think Tierney is the best of the three - just unfortunate that Harte saw fit to let him suffer at the hands of o'donoghue in the league.
I'm just not convinced by McBride (I could be totally wrong and hope I am) I haven't seen much of him in a Tyrone jersey but any time I saw him play for Strabane I was never that impressed!
What about Gallagher Newtownstewart - I saw him play a couple of times recently and he looked to be in great form!
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 15, 2014, 10:00:33 PM
Comórtas: Craobh na Sinsear
Cluiche: Tír Eoghain v An Dún
Ionad: Páirc Uí hÉilí, An Omaigh
Dáta: 18-05-14
1 - Niall Morgan - Éadan na dTorc
2 - Aidan McCrory - Aireagal Chiaráin
3 - Danny McBride - An Srath Ban
4 - Barry Tierney - An Omaigh
5 - Tiernan McCann - Coill an Chlochair
6 - Matthew Donnelly - Trí Leac
7 - Peter Harte - Aireagal Chiaráin
8 - Colm Cavanagh - An Mhaigh
9 - Conor Clarke - An Omaigh
10 - Patrick McNeice - Oileán a'Ghuail
11 - Sean Cavanagh - An Mhaigh
12 - Ciaran McGinley - Aireagal Chiaráin
13 - Darren McCurry - Éadán na dTorc
14 - Niall McKenna - Domhnach Mór
15 - Kyle Coney - Ard Bó
16 - Michael O'Neill - Cluain Eo
17 - Dermot Carlin - Coill an Chlochair
18 - Mark Donnelly - An Charraig Mhór
19 - Conor Gormley - An Charraig Mhór
20 - Conan Grugan - An Omaigh
21 - Peter Hughes - Eiscreach
22 - Plunkett Kane - Oileán a'Ghuail
23 - PJ Lavery - Cluain Eo
24 - Connor McAliskey - Cluain Eo
25 - Shay McGuigan - Ard Bó
26 - Emmett McKenna - Eaglais
Just noticing - must be better defenders in the west and better forwards in the east!! :D Any thoughts?
Quote from: Wee Roddy on May 16, 2014, 10:28:51 AM
I am told that this is virtually the same team that was selected last week as the first team in a training game. The subs beat them apparently so the hints from various sources on here all week from a Tyrone perspective were correct. When we were winning stuff, the panel was tight and no one could second guess Tyrones team. A lot of the speculation was coming from our Omagh posters and they got a couple of surprises correct. Perhaps someone from Omagh needs to keep the gob quiet when he comes home from training
I wouldn't be surprised if the subs did beat them when you consider the sub 15 could have been something like this:
O'Neill
PJ
Gormley
McKenna
McNabb
Carlin
PJ Lavery
Justy
Grugan
Mark D
McGuigan
Penrose
Stevie
Ronan O
McAliskey
It's definitely not the strongest 15 available on Sunday but I'm sure Harte has reason behind it. I think the 15 that finishes will more than likely be a stronger team. Going to be interesting to see what the tactics are. Would be great to see some of the boys who we're all writing off pushing on and doing well.
The team that played in last years AI semi final.
Only 7 survivors and only 2 of those playing in the same position.
massive changes in a year
Tyrone: P McConnell, R McKenna, C Clarke, C McCarron, C McGinley (0-01), P Harte, C Gormley, C Cavanagh, S Cavanagh (0-02, 1f), Mattie Donnelly, Mark Donnelly, Joe McMahon, D McCurry (0-04, 2f), S O'Neill (0-01), C McAliskey (0-02).
Subs: D Carlin for Harte, R O'Neill (0-01) for S O'Neill, R McNabb for McMahon, A Cassidy (0-01) for Mattie Donnelly, K Coney (0-01) for R O'Neill
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 16, 2014, 02:59:10 PM
It's definitely not the strongest 15 available on Sunday but I'm sure Harte has reason behind it. I think the 15 that finishes will more than likely be a stronger team. Going to be interesting to see what the tactics are. Would be great to see some of the boys who we're all writing off pushing on and doing well.
I suspect Mickey is keeping his powder dry for bigger games later in the summer whilst at the same time keeping panel members happy with starts and game time. It's called management....
Why not play your strongest team to ensure you win the game.
The more I read through this thread and subsequent other bullshit threads, the more I think that Tyrone folk are maybe taking this game and their opposition a little lightly. Seems to be an attitude of 'sure we can experiment in this game and try few things out..keep the poweder dry for later in the summer'.
Surely this might be tad dangerous. You might not be around later in the summer.
Quote from: Under Lights on May 16, 2014, 01:50:27 PM
I could see Marty Swift joining up with the panel in the near future.
Again UL you are giving too much information away here - did you not previously state that McKenna hit Swift for 1-06 in a league game in 30 minutes - surely that is not county defending....
You are obviously in the 'know' with someone involved if this is the case.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 03:24:12 PM
Why not play your strongest team to ensure you win the game.
The more I read through this thread and subsequent other bullshit threads, the more I think that Tyrone folk are maybe taking this game and their opposition a little lightly.Seems to be an attitude of 'sure we can experiment in this game and try few things out..keep the poweder dry for later in the summer'.
Surely this might be tad dangerous. You might not be around later in the summer.
I think that is exactly the thinking and why not?
Tyrone will win.
That may be the case. But I find it all very arrogant and presumptuous.
Im sure the players don't share the same sentiment. And if they do then that's just being very complacent and foolish.
Stunning arrogance in the above post!
Some would call it arrogance... Some would call it confidence.. ;)
Some would call it being a shit head too.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 03:38:56 PM
Some would call it being a shit head too.
You're in fierce form today. Lighten ta feck up ya bollix.
Don't like the arrogance from some posters and to suggest Harte is experimenting because he thinks they'll win anyway is far of the mark. The more likely thing is that some of the guys like Penrose, Mark Donnelly, Justy and Gormley who may be taking some of the players places weren't about for all the league and may not be fully fit for 70 minutes so he wants to finish with his strongest team. The player on the bench who I'd have most like to have seen start based on recent form is Ronan O'Neill.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 03:38:56 PM
Some would call it being a shit head too.
I'm just being honest. I think Tyrone will win. I might be wrong but that is what I think. I could not be bothered with the holding back bull that goes on in here. What I or anyone else on here thinks will have no bearing on the game. May the best team win.
We can't wait to get out of the Ulster cauldron asap. With Monaghan up next. Then armagh and then Donegal or Derry we wanna go the easier scenic route and maybe get to bring Kerry back to Omagh.
Ye could be out of that Ulster Cauldron sooner than ye think and away down the country for yer next match.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 16, 2014, 04:48:06 PM
We can't wait to get out of the Ulster cauldron asap. With Monaghan up next. Then armagh and then Donegal or Derry we wanna go the easier scenic route and maybe get to bring Kerry back to Omagh.
Right enough when you say it like it that it would be some Ulster title to win for either Down or Tyrone. Its no wonder the Ulster championship remains a special prize when you see that.
Ahh now... the Dubs have a tricky path as well
Home to Laois or Wicklow
Home to Wexford or Offaly/Longford
Home to Carlow in the final.
I think you need to keep the head a bit there Brick.
Naturally enough Tyrone are favourites but as you are seeing on here a lot of us are NOT impressed by that team Mickey has named. Do you really think Mickey is experimenting and not playing what he thinks is the best team. He said there are a few wee niggles here and there and so is holding back a few players.
I for one do not underestimate the threat Down pose but I do think we will win on Sunday without playing the usual silly cute hoorism games.
It's hard to believe Ronan O'Neill can't get on our starting 6 forwards they way he has been playing the last few months but in Mickey we trust but yes he does get it wrong the odd time
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 16, 2014, 04:49:42 PM
Ye could be out of that Ulster Cauldron sooner than ye think and away down the country for yer next match.
Such arrogance.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 16, 2014, 04:48:06 PM
We can't wait to get out of the Ulster cauldron asap. With Monaghan up next. Then armagh and then Donegal or Derry we wanna go the easier scenic route and maybe get to bring Kerry back to Omagh.
Now that would be some craic of a Saturday evening in July!
If we lose this game, Harte should be roaded on Sunday night.
It's a shocking team selection with a lot of very inconsistent players, who can
Be hot or cold. He has the tools at his disposal but picking boys like Paddy McNeice,
Ahead of the likes of Ronan O'Neill, McNabb, Penrose, McAliskey Is just shockin
It's ok having good players on the bench but only 5 can be used
And you have to hold at least two back in case of black cards.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 16, 2014, 10:19:38 PM
It's ok having good players on the bench but only 5 can be used
6
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 16, 2014, 10:19:38 PM
If we lose this game, Harte should be roaded on Sunday night.
It's a shocking team selection with a lot of very inconsistent players, who can
Be hot or cold. He has the tools at his disposal but picking boys like Paddy McNeice,
Ahead of the likes of Ronan O'Neill, McNabb, Penrose, McAliskey Is just shockin
It's ok having good players on the bench but only 5 can be used
And you have to hold at least two back in case of black cards.
Ffs, some people watch too much Premier League soccer - will you be hiring a plane with a "Mickey Out" banner to fly over Healy Park? I've got my issues with some of the selections but I'm also sensible enough to realise that Mickey sees the players a lot more than me. This sorta oul shite from Tyrone men before a championship ball is even kicked is just embarrassing!
Getting the road..... crazy.
Some Tyronies think it amusing to get the Mickey out.
We can't wait until this game either as we have no fear of Tyrone,
If Mickey was sacked would he be replaced as manager by one of the Moy's Davids?
Tyrone 2-12
Down 1-10
I'm going for a nip and tuck game until the last 10 when, hopefully, we'll pull away when our subs enter the fray.
Tyrone 1-14 Down 0-15
By the way, looks like the weather is going to be pretty poor. Disappointing after the last few days. Hard to beat a bit of heat and sun for the first round of the championship!
Looking at the teams have to say my down neighbours will give the tyronnies all they want.
Fancy a draw with down winning the replay.
A bit of Philomena to get us in the mood - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/gaelic-games/27423238
Quote from: ONeill on May 17, 2014, 01:08:00 PM
A bit of Philomena to get us in the mood - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/gaelic-games/27423238
Excellent.
A week ago, i didnt give Down much chance travelling to Omagh. But the closer it gets to Sunday and since the teams were announced im a lot more optimistic. If the game was in Newry, id be confident of a win, but our away form recently is shocking but it has to improve sometime and hopefully it is Sunday.
It will be interesting to see what 15 take the pitch and how they line out.
Monaghan folk I have spoken to are expecting to travel to the Marshes for the quarter-final. And it will be more in hope for them than expectation.
Down to win both games and push her on for Ulster glory.
is it a sell out. Tickets.ie have nothing available
Mickey us proving that when you have the players you can win things and when you haven't the players you don't. A good question to ask is...if Mickey had taken the Donegal team of two seasons ago would he won an All Irealnd, especially considering where they were before McGuiness got them. Personally I doubt it. Would Mc Guiness have won an All Ireland with the Tyrone team considering the players that were there, again I am certain he would have.
And btw I think the team selection for Sunday sucks.
I agree completely, he has done nothing since 2008.
In fact Tyrone have under achieved since then.
The team selection for tomorrow baffles me, would not be surprised if
We take a pasting!
Could some of you not at least wait to we get beat in the championship before starting this over the top nonsense. Harte has a done a good job keeping tyrone competitive and consistently in quarter finals during a period of transition. I'm not overly impressed with the team but think we'll have a big championship and push on from last year.
Quote from: snoopdog on May 17, 2014, 02:34:48 PM
is it a sell out. Tickets.ie have nothing available
They're available on the day. Don't think it'll be close to sold out especially with a poor day given.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 17, 2014, 04:40:34 PM
I agree completely, he has done nothing since 2008.
In fact Tyrone have under achieved since then.
The team selection for tomorrow baffles me, would not be surprised if
We take a pasting!
Sounds like your hoping that we are beat tomorrow! You are going on like a soccer supporter!
When is it ok for a Tyrone man to critise the manager? Inevitable onslaught on here if you do.
I'm holding back here... but it's beyond dispute now that Mickey has no idea of his best starting 15. Experimenting again at full back, midfield, CHF, FF
We've paid Down a real lack of respect frankly with a lucky bag team selection
How many appearances has Paddy McNiece had? Out of that figure how many times has he impressed?
It's a shocking team selection. Thankfully no man on here is trying to defend it.
I still think we will sneak a victory after a big scare. Benny Coulter a cert for a 3 pointer at some stage too.
Since 08 we've won 2 ulster titles and got to 2 semi finals and appeared in quarter finals 2 other years. Not bad for a team going through massive changes.
We could win well tomorrow and talk will then change to the strong squad and massive competition for places. I'm interested to see how McKenna goes at full forward. Has never convinced out the pitch but who knows could excel there.
Gutted, cant get home now for game. Have my season ticket print out here and no takers at home. If anyone needs it, give me a bell on 07980423556. Ticket is free.
Why are people picking on paddy mc niece ? He is a really good footballer who is as deserving of his chance as most. He is at least as good as mc aliskey, coney mc guigan or mc ginley
I have watched Paddy McNeice play sine U21 level, he has never done anything of note and has never mpressed.
To be fair he has always been played out of position, Harte plays him as a sweeper or half forward. when is is a full forward.
If you want a man to do that job why not play someone like McNabb.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 17, 2014, 05:52:02 PM
We could win well tomorrow and talk will then change to the strong squad and massive competition for places. I'm interested to see how McKenna goes at full forward. Has never convinced out the pitch but who knows could excel there.
It's good to give all the lads in the jersey our backing. C Mon Tyrone
Quote from: time ticking away on May 17, 2014, 07:13:16 PM
Why are people picking on paddy mc niece ? He is a really good footballer who is as deserving of his chance as most. He is at least as good as mc aliskey, coney mc guigan or mc ginley
Because he seems to get more chances than any other player who doesn't deliver.
I can't remember one performance that left me thinking he should keep his place.
Young mc neice started the season very strong. The lad is only starting out in the jersey.
We Down Boys are lying low and saying nothing, that is when we are at our most dangerous. Expect a few big changes in our line-out tomorrow
Linden in baggy shorts
Cmon Tyrone. Get wired into the stoops.
That's more like it. The fcukers gotta pay. They can afford it too.
Killyleagh. Crossgar. Ballynahinch. Fcuk them.
Tomorrow's a big day. Exactly 25 years since the Grimley hit the lynch. Mr Kenna broke down the Armagh door at half time and asked was any man gonna take him on. Ref told me Kenna he would stay blind for a minute after half time to sort it out. Tyrone won like men. Come on Tyrone let's do the same to down tomorrow. Mr Kenna junior take note.
Quote from: rrhf on May 17, 2014, 11:23:10 PM
Tomorrow's a big day. Exactly 25 years since the Grimley hit the lynch. Mr Kenna broke down the Armagh door at half time and asked was any man gonna take him on. Ref told me Kenna he would stay blind for a minute after half time to sort it out. Tyrone won like men. Come on Tyrone let's do the same to down tomorrow. Mr Kenna junior take note.
One myth after another there.
Tyrone 1-15 Down 0-14 i reckon.
Down 1-15 Tyrone 0-14 for me.
I'm looking forward to a meaty game, the first such game of the Championship year.
Down have it all to do playing in Tyrone, but this Tyrone team is a shadow of former years, like an ageing actress battling father time. I'm quite prepared to watch how the dice rolls, as to who Monaghan will meet.
Where's (angry ant) Carlin?
Quote from: Main Street on May 18, 2014, 12:05:04 AM
I'm looking forward to a meaty game, the first such game of the Championship year.
Down have it all to do playing in Tyrone, but this Tyrone team is a shadow of former years, like an ageing actress battling father time. I'm quite prepared to watch how the dice rolls, as to who Monaghan will meet.
Where's (angry ant) Carlin?
They're holding him back for the Monaghan game.
Quote from: Gaffer on May 17, 2014, 11:39:47 PM
Quote from: rrhf on May 17, 2014, 11:23:10 PM
Tomorrow's a big day. Exactly 25 years since the Grimley hit the lynch. Mr Kenna broke down the Armagh door at half time and asked was any man gonna take him on. Ref told me Kenna he would stay blind for a minute after half time to sort it out. Tyrone won like men. Come on Tyrone let's do the same to down tomorrow. Mr Kenna junior take note.
One myth after another there.
Sometimes the myth makes more interesting reading.
Quote from: ONeill on May 17, 2014, 11:09:24 PM
Killyleagh. Crossgar. Ballynahinch. Fcuk them.
"Get wired into the Stoops?"
Go to Castlewellan, Newry, Loughinisland, Kilcoo, etc, etc, and say that.
An Dún Abú.
I was on night duty last night. Non stop heavy rain and gives it to continue through the morning, what's the chances of it being called off?
Was out in Strabane last night with FoSB for wan and everyone I talked to was raging about the team named. They had a big picture on the wall of Dooher with the Anglo Celt in 2010. Got me hungry for Ulster again so no more on the road talk this year.
Well at least not til 5.30
Yeah crazy rain last night here for hours but its stopped now. forecast terrible again today. Hope my ticket is for the stand. I haven't got it yet.
Maybe they'll move it to Aughabrack.
Tyrone by a point with a lot of relieved but angry fans
4 black cards and Brolly struggling to keep the head with Spillane about Ulster football
Quote from: Mikhailov on May 16, 2014, 03:25:46 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 16, 2014, 01:50:27 PM
I could see Marty Swift joining up with the panel in the near future.
Again UL you are giving too much information away here - did you not previously state that McKenna hit Swift for 1-06 in a league game in 30 minutes - surely that is not county defending....
You are obviously in the 'know' with someone involved if this is the case.
When swift moved onto McKenna he won the battle easily. Mckenna did score a goal from open play, but it was a defensive error by a different killyclogher defender. Think that was the only score from play whilst. On swift.
Down never win in the rain. Not looking good.
They beat Donegal last year in the rain.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 08:45:35 AM
They beat Donegal last year in the rain.
[/quote
NO WE Didnt]
Dunno why I thought that, was a game ye should have won
good luck to both down teams today. we can do this. c'mon te feck down!!!!!!!!!!
Best of luck to the Red Hands today.Unlike others I'll reserve judgement on the team until I see how they get on.Hopefully I'm not back here at 6 o'clock this evening giving out ;D
Big Match Day.
Any word of the minor team? I have a few gripes with Mickey Donnellys handling of the minors. Word is that the panel was cut after the league finished and 6 had to go. Just 6. The 6 lads found out they didn't make it by the internet- panel annouced on the website on the monday night. Surly Donnelly would have a responsibility to give these 6 lads a personal call and give them the news like a man. Real cop out. These are young lads that had done 5 months training and played in all the league games like. I could see pasr using the internet method for cutting the panel from 60 to 40 in January.
Some of the 6 under age next year-and some coulld make the grade at 21s in a few years time. At least MH had the balls to ring lads at the start of this year that were no longer part of his plans.
Mon Tyrone.
Quote from: ONeill on May 17, 2014, 11:00:41 PM
Cmon Tyrone. Get wired into the stoops.
[/quote
On the beer last night?
Quote from: Lecale2 on May 18, 2014, 08:42:22 AM
Down never win in the rain. Not looking good.
1994 AIF???
If you think that is bad. He called up a player last week for trial and he starts today! To be fair he is probably the best forward in county at the minute, how he was not included in the
Original squad is a mystery.
But still it's a bad message to others, when a lad gets called in with a week to go to championship
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:36:31 AM
Big Match Day.
Any word of the minor team? I have a few gripes with Mickey Donnellys handling of the minors. Word is that the panel was cut after the league finished and 6 had to go. Just 6. The 6 lads found out they didn't make it by the internet- panel annouced on the website on the monday night. Surly Donnelly would have a responsibility to give these 6 lads a personal call and give them the news like a man. Real cop out. These are young lads that had done 5 months training and played in all the league games like. I could see pasr using the internet method for cutting the panel from 60 to 40 in January.
Some of the 6 under age next year-and some coulld make the grade at 21s in a few years time. At least MH had the balls to ring lads at the start of this year that were no longer part of his plans.
Mon Tyrone.
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 18, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
If you think that is bad. He called up a player last week for trial and he starts today! To be fair he is probably the best forward in county at the minute, how he was not included in the
Original squad is a mystery.
But still it's a bad message to others, when a lad gets called in with a week to go to championship
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:36:31 AM
Big Match Day.
Any word of the minor team? I have a few gripes with Mickey Donnellys handling of the minors. Word is that the panel was cut after the league finished and 6 had to go. Just 6. The 6 lads found out they didn't make it by the internet- panel annouced on the website on the monday night. Surly Donnelly would have a responsibility to give these 6 lads a personal call and give them the news like a man. Real cop out. These are young lads that had done 5 months training and played in all the league games like. I could see pasr using the internet method for cutting the panel from 60 to 40 in January.
Some of the 6 under age next year-and some coulld make the grade at 21s in a few years time. At least MH had the balls to ring lads at the start of this year that were no longer part of his plans.
Mon Tyrone.
Who is that? Kavanagh from Errigal?
Feeling quiet confident about today , think Tyrone maybe underestimating us , we also have a lot more experience in our starting 15 . It's a joke that we are away again !! Bring on Monaghan at home next
Quote from: Club Rossa on May 18, 2014, 09:11:54 AM
Best of luck to the Red Hands today.Unlike others I'll reserve judgement on the team until I see how they get on.Hopefully I'm not back here at 6 o'clock this evening giving out ;D
+1.Believe and support all the sqad.
When was the last time we played at Healy Park in the championship? Armagh back door game 3 years ago?
I'll not be back giving out about Mickey one way or the other. (Please note - I didn't say I wouldn't be back giving out about certain players who have unfortunately flattered to deceive) Always thankful for the many days out we have had for years because of the teams Mickey puts out. Hope they win today, if they don't so be it.
I think a lot of players owe Mickey a performance for the faith he has put in them today!
Paddy McNeice to bag 1-03 and the MOTM award.
Drying up nicely in Strabane - hope Omagh is similar for my terrace viewing position.
Hay fever hitting the last two days - it is definitely Championship time!
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 11:05:17 AM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 18, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
If you think that is bad. He called up a player last week for trial and he starts today! To be fair he is probably the best forward in county at the minute, how he was not included in the
Original squad is a mystery.
But still it's a bad message to others, when a lad gets called in with a week to go to championship
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:36:31 AM
Big Match Day.
Any word of the minor team? I have a few gripes with Mickey Donnellys handling of the minors. Word is that the panel was cut after the league finished and 6 had to go. Just 6. The 6 lads found out they didn't make it by the internet- panel annouced on the website on the monday night. Surly Donnelly would have a responsibility to give these 6 lads a personal call and give them the news like a man. Real cop out. These are young lads that had done 5 months training and played in all the league games like. I could see pasr using the internet method for cutting the panel from 60 to 40 in January.
Some of the 6 under age next year-and some coulld make the grade at 21s in a few years time. At least MH had the balls to ring lads at the start of this year that were no longer part of his plans.
Mon Tyrone.
Who is that? Kavanagh from Errigal?
He is over age.
Quote from: CD on May 18, 2014, 11:27:46 AM
I'll not be back giving out about Mickey one way or the other. (Please note - I didn't say I wouldn't be back giving out about certain players who have unfortunately flattered to deceive) Always thankful for the many days out we have had for years because of the teams Mickey puts out. Hope they win today, if they don't so be it.
I think a lot of players owe Mickey a performance for the faith he has put in them today!
I'll go along with that. Not the team I expected and I'm a little disappointed that we are again in this situation of a number of unexpected changes for the championship. Personally, I'd prefer if Mickey made less changes from game to game through the league, resulting in a more settled team by this time of year. His most successful teams were based on this format, albeit they were certainly easier to pick in those days of exceptional players.
Whatever, Mickey is the boss and has more than earned the right to do it his way. Never easy against Down (except the 2003 final replay ;D) and expecting a very close game. Good luck to the boys.
Would expect Mark Donnelly to start for sure!
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 11:30:42 AM
Paddy McNeice to bag 1-03 and the MOTM award.
He'll have to do it from the bench, replaced by Mark Donnelly according to RTE.
stream
http://cricfree.tv/live-tennis-streaming-ch3.php (http://cricfree.tv/live-tennis-streaming-ch3.php)
Quote from: gerry on May 18, 2014, 03:54:42 PM
stream
http://cricfree.tv/live-tennis-streaming-ch3.php (http://cricfree.tv/live-tennis-streaming-ch3.php)
Watching it on RTE player and it's well behind that stream!
Even after just 5 mins I can see Tyrone hammering Down here.
Hawkeye wouldn't have given Cavanaghs point.
Terrible game
How was that not a black card as well as a penalty?
Poor stuff so far.
A terrible advert for Ulster championship football. Horrific stuff.
Down's passing has been shocking.
Poor stuff but hard to see Tyrone losing
Oh oh Brolly will be going Ape shit with the quality of football.
Down look like a very weak team, always spilling the ball in contact. Tyrone don't look anything special either. I expect Monaghan to beat either of them
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 18, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
Poor stuff but hard to see Tyrone losing
I've seen Down play an awful first half and boss the second half against us twice in the last few years. I wouldn't write them off just yet.
Why wasn't a black card given for the penalty?
Quote from: clarshack on May 18, 2014, 04:44:23 PM
Why wasn't a black card given for the penalty?
It's a championship match clarshack.
Quote from: clarshack on May 18, 2014, 04:44:23 PM
Why wasn't a black card given for the penalty?
Because the ref didn't follow the rule.
Why was it a penalty? Has the new version of the advantage rule been forgotten already in all the black card hype?
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
Why was it a penalty? Had the new version of the advantage rule been forgotten already in all the black card hype?
Yeah by right the goal should have been allowed and the down player given a black card.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on May 18, 2014, 04:50:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
Why was it a penalty? Had the new version of the advantage rule been forgotten already in all the black card hype?
Yeah by right the goal should have been allowed and the down player given a black card.
Can a player get a black card while also allowing the advantage?
Good old consistent refereeing.
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on May 18, 2014, 04:50:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
Why was it a penalty? Had the new version of the advantage rule been forgotten already in all the black card hype?
Yeah by right the goal should have been allowed and the down player given a black card.
Can a player get a black card while also allowing the advantage?
Yes.
What was that from Cavanagh? Wild writhing on the ground like a grounded eel. Will Brolly renew his assault on his manhood?
Ah you have to love it! The Black card is a mess. Gaa Referees have too many cards to deal with!
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 05:10:12 PM
What was that from Cavanagh? Wild writhing on the ground like a grounded eel. Will Brolly renew his assault on his manhood?
Lazarus like recovery, good point.
G after the beauty of the national league i forgot how shit ulster championship football is, awful game, mostly cause down are that poor and Tyrone seem to be in 2nd gear.
Don't know what game the ref is watching . How did he give a free out there . While the gaa is at it they should give the premiership referees a shout as well.
That Coney lad is shite, always said it.
Game of the season so far.
Dive at one end leads directly to goal at the other. But the powers that be see nothing wrong with this cancer in the game and know only one type of cynicism.
;D
Cathal McCarron only robbed a few houses and got run out of Tyrone, David Coldrick is robbing an entire county.
Only themsleves to blame, they should been a mile out of sight
Quote from: highorlow on May 18, 2014, 04:05:52 PM
Even after just 5 mins I can see Tyrone hammering Down here.
What can you see now highorlow ;)
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 18, 2014, 04:42:37 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 18, 2014, 04:36:57 PM
Poor stuff but hard to see Tyrone losing
I've seen Down play an awful first half and boss the second half against us twice in the last few years. I wouldn't write them off just yet.
You might have been on to something here Maguire. Interesting 10 minutes coming up.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 18, 2014, 05:12:30 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 05:10:12 PM
What was that from Cavanagh? Wild writhing on the ground like a grounded eel. Will Brolly renew his assault on his manhood?
Lazarus like recovery, good point.
Away with ye cynics, Sean is bravely playing on with 3 cracked ribs.
Great game, Ulster championship showing us what the game is all about again, passion, goals, excitement, this has it all. Pity you other poor f**kers with nothing better to do but sneer at it. You wish ya'd games like this on your doorstep.
Tyrone looked 10pts a better team, Tyrone took this game for granted at Halftime, abit like Derry leading by 5 at half time last year
Down on fire .
Tyrone going Down?
Quote from: trileacman on May 18, 2014, 05:25:06 PM
Great game, Ulster championship showing us what the game is all about again, passion, goals, excitement, this has it all. Pity you other poor f**kers with nothing better to do but sneer at it. You wish ya'd games like this on your doorstep.
hear hear
Huge dive by Laverty
Tyrone emptying the bench.
Quote from: AQMP on May 18, 2014, 05:28:07 PM
Huge dive by Laverty
Took a punch to the guts in fairness.
Another dive from Cavanagh and the fool of a ref gives a black card for what wasn't even a foul, never mind deliberate, never mind a pull to the ground.
That terrible miss from the free look like it could have cost Down the game
Absolutely brainless off the ball dig there, that and the missed free have cost Down dearly.
For fuke sake Down. Miss a sitter to go 3 up and give away two brainless frees to allow Tyrone back in.
Interesting to review thoughts on the performance on the line...
and it now looks like the missed down free has cost them the game
Tyrone show ref an OTR letter in added time!!
Game of the year, cracking finish, it'll be head-lining the Sunday game tonight, I'd say Sky will be raging they missed the chance of covering that game, probably get shafted by getting some Leinster dud where Dublin hockey the Meath junior B's.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 18, 2014, 05:34:56 PM
That terrible miss from the free look like it could have cost Down the game
That was Tyrones get out of Jail Card. Coupled with the free given at the end! Tyrone will benefit more from this. Down missed their chance to catch Tyrone on the hop!
Tyrone rape another county, Hartes team looked dead and buried.
Cavanagh conning referees yet again with his antics.
O'Hare will have nightmare's about the missed free, but fair play to Down for second half, great stuff. 1st half was atrocious. Tyrone are seriously dogdy at the back and bringing in Gormley just shows how desperate they are.
Still think Tyrone will improve and with dry ball if Coney and McCurry get enough they will win replay.
Woeful miss for a free to seal the game for Down and it came back to haunt them. I wouldn't subscribe to the theory that Downs chance has gone however. Tyrone are a fairly mediocre side who play far too many short fist passes to keep possession for the sake of it. When a team ups the pace and tempo (as Down did for 20 minutes in the second half) they struggle to cope. Morgan going off was a big blow for Tyrone as they lost about 5or 6 of their own kick outs in a row shortly after it. It was a very exciting second half nonetheless and a draw was probably a fair outcome. Some of the diving by Laverty and Cavanagh was disgraceful again today.
Oh ffs, just saw the replay..massive dive by Kavanagh and the ref bought it. :-\
Brolly didn't hold back on Cavanagh either! "If there's one man you don't want to put your hand on in Gaelic Football it's Sean Cavanagh, because he'll dive through the air with grace..."
Also liked Lyster's response when Brolly complemented Cavanagh on the equalising free, "It takes a man to do that"!
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
The highest rated referee in the sport was brutal today.
NO understanding if the advantage rule (at least two scoreable frees lost to Tyrone and one to Down) at the very least he doesn't know how long five seconds is!
NO interest in implementing the over-carrying rule (how many steps can McCurry take?)
Black card - Hello!! Does Coldrick even know the rules (and I'm a Down supporter saying that!!)
Does Coldrick not know that if a player is bending to lift the ball then an opposition player can not stick his foot in? A player could get hurt when this happens (both teams guilty)
None of these are particularly difficult rules to implement.
that dive was fairly poor alright, right in front of the ref which beats me,big strapping lad but the wind would blow him over somedays
Quote from: God14 on May 18, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
More like holding them together.
No reason why Down can't give Tyrone what they deserve next week
if I wasn't from tyrone I think I would really dislike Sean cavanagh. he seems to have gotten a reputation like 'the jurgen klinnsman of the gaa'. down were robbed at the end. I hate to say it but tyrone are mediocre. down exposed a lot of failings in our setup. down will win replay.
Quote from: Agent Orange on May 18, 2014, 05:41:27 PM
Tyrone rape another county, Hartes team looked dead and buried.
Classy from the bard of Armagh
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
Exciting game but two poor teams to be honest. Both teams probablythink they should have won/held on.
Some of the referees decisions were dubious to say the least, for both sides. I don't think Monaghan will be too concerned by anything they saw tonight.
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
I hope Big Sean posts the picture up on the internet, of that grievous wound inflicted on his body by pint size Laverty. I'd say the bruise must be pure black by now.
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Very poor from a Tyrone perspective. The changes failed to improve the defence from the league and reduced the attacking capabilties of the team. Down were rotten for about 55 minutes and yet they should have won the game.
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
We could introduce a rule whereby if you dive you get a pink card, after which you are carried off and have to stay in the stretcher for 10 minutes before being allowed back on.
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
Benny should have been playing at midfield for the past fifteen years for Down. It is where he made his name as a minor and he had become fairly redundant up front over the past few years. People may say he wasn't fit enough, but I think today shows us what we have missed with him being constantly played out of position.
Just in from the game - absolutely saturated right down to the socks. Having played on the Omagh pitch quite a few times I know from experience that it is a really greasy surface on a day like today. Down really struggled with that in the first half and were continually losing the ball in the tackle quite cheaply. Tyrone were unbelievably wasteful in the first half and should have been going in at half-time with a 10 point advantage.
Some of the posters on here clearly have a jaundiced view of the game for whatever reason. I agree that the referee was a bit inconsistent and he did let a few things go, but the surface was treacherous and if he blew up everything the game would have been horrendous. I was huddled in the terrace just beside the Cavanagh incident in the last minute - while he made a meal of the final contact - no doubt about that at all, he was hauled, tugged and impeded for 20 seconds right under the referee's nose prior to the award and the referee was actually shouting at the Down defender prior to awarding the free - did any of you who so clearly saw Cavanagh 'cheat' notice that the Down defenders didn't contest the decision?
A really gutsy second half performance from Down but they were horrendous for longer than Tyrone were abysmal. Two teams who won't make an impact in the latter stages of the 2014 AI!
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
As bad as cavanagh was , laverty was every bit as bad if not worse.
Like I said months ago, the black card encourages players to go to ground.but yet the most obvious black card offence of the day, the tyrone penalty, and the ref gives nothing.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 18, 2014, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
As bad as cavanagh was , laverty was every bit as bad if not worse.
Like I said months ago, the black card encourages players to go to ground.but yet the most obvious black card offence of the day, the tyrone penalty, and the ref gives nothing.
I was thinking that as well. Firstly he should have played advantage but went he did blow up for the penalty I was sure that the Down player would have gotten the black card. Is that not the same thing that Brolly nearly had a heart attack for last year over.
Quote from: tyronefan on May 18, 2014, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 18, 2014, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
As bad as cavanagh was , laverty was every bit as bad if not worse.
Like I said months ago, the black card encourages players to go to ground.but yet the most obvious black card offence of the day, the tyrone penalty, and the ref gives nothing.
I was thinking that as well. Firstly he should have played advantage but went he did blow up for the penalty I was sure that the Down player would have gotten the black card. Is that not the same thing that Brolly nearly had a heart attack for last year over.
The tackle on Donnelly was a blatant black card
Muppet. .just checked the rule book. No pink card as yet. Could be a runner. Maybe make the offending diver wear a tutu for the remainder of their teams run in the championship.
What time is the replay? Do the GAA have enough sense to make it 5pm?
Quote from: tyroneman on May 18, 2014, 07:29:35 PM
What time is the replay? Do the GAA have enough sense to make it 5pm?
Will it be on the TV?
A reality check for a few Tyrone posters on here after some of the tripe that has been written on here about Down. Should have won in the end.
Lota ppl commenting about two bad teams etc.. I recall the same being said after they met in 2008 and look where Tyrone went! Men shud just comment on today as teams change as the championship goes on. Great entertainment given the weather and same again next week. Tyrone do not like teams running at them and Down have the hands, off the shoulder running, and pace to trouble them again.
Lucky escape for Tyrone today, massive kick from Cavanagh to get the replay. It was no doubt a foul, even before the free in the build up was taken you could see clearly on the TV Cavanagh being pulled and dragged off the ball. In fairness for 35 mins Down were atrocious and purely from Tyrone's wastefulness managed to be still in the game at half time. Wee James changes at half time changed things. Would expect the finishing teams from both sides to be close to the starting teams on Saturday.
Crazy spills and thrills. Refereeing madness. Controversy. Tyrone and down are the best watch in town. I have seen down and Tyrone draw 4 times now in the championship.
Quote from: Hardy on May 18, 2014, 05:34:01 PM
Another dive from Cavanagh and the fool of a ref gives a black card for what wasn't even a foul, never mind deliberate, never mind a pull to the ground.
Fool of a ref is right, Meath fecker! Clueless, totally.
Danny McBride is terrible for Tyrone. Surely Justy, Block are better options
Can Tyrone play as bad next week......
Donnelly and Harte are excellent footballers. But to play with 5, 6 or 7 on your back you have to be a defender first. When teams run off the shoulder from midfield Tyrone are helpless to stop a tsunami raining down on the full back line. Dublin did it. Kerry did it. Down did it for 20 mins. The gaps were there in the first half too but Down hadn't the players to exploit it.
just back from a wet omagh and am proud and disappointed rolled into one. brilliant 2nd half fightback. o'hares missed free proved costly in the end but you couldn't be to critical as he doesn't miss many. felt the ref played for the draw and couldn't wait to give tyrone the free at the end. roll on next Saturday night, down have nothing to fear from tyrone.
Curates egg of a game. A few observations...
At half time Tyrone were comfortable with the match being played at McKenna cup pace and looked in no bother.
Poor shot selection at the start of the second half meant we didn't pull away and put the game to bed.
Black card was right decision for Morgan but Down player should have went for Tyrone pen. Coldrick very inconsistant.
S Cav was dragged and pulled all match. Ref was right to give that last free (I watched it again when I got in from the game)
For the last 2 Down goals P Harte looked to be at fault - way behind his man? For a keeper to be beaten at his near post (second Down goal) is criminal anyhow.
Morgans kick outs are great.....we lost vistually everything at MF when he went off. Kicking to a lone Colm Cav surrounded by 3 Down players was madness, yet happened time and time again.
Danny McBride..while game and went for everything.. won very little off his man....not the answer at FB.
Sean Cav is not a CHF. We lack someone with a bit of guile in there to feed the forwards.... hammering high hopefull balls inot McCurry and Coney is the road to nowhere.
McKenna..not a good day at the office..is he really a FF?
Both teams will feel they should have won this..both will fancy themselves in the replay.
Unles Tyrone improve that defence though.......Down will probably sneak it.
Will be very suprised if MH doesn't make at least 2-3 changes with Penrose and possibly Justy starting, Clarke moved to Wing back.
Not sure what 'facade' Down 'peeled' away (according to Brolly) - no one in Tyrone thinks now or thought beofre the game that we have an AI winning team on our hands with that defence..
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 18, 2014, 07:50:47 PM
Danny McBride is terrible for Tyrone. Surely Justy, Block are better options
Can Tyrone play as bad next week......
Can Down??
QuoteFor a keeper to be beaten at his near post (second Down goal) is criminal anyhow.
Very harsh, this isn't soccer. I wouldn't fault the goalkeeper for any of the goals.
Wasn't surprised we got a draw.Sure Down never win in the rain :P
Seriously,we were very fortunate to get another chance.Down should have closed it out.I'll watch the game before I comment again but I'm sick of this diving,no place for it in our games and it should be punished every time with a black card.Cavanagh and Laverty were at it and it's time something was done about it.
It was almost a carbon copy of the Derry match at Celtic Park in the National League.
Tyrone were 7/8 ahead missed a bag full and then Derry came steamrollering back. (even the goals were quite similar).
Has Harte not learned that when we have a big lead, its time to put a sweeper back and make sure we don't concede goals.
Quote from: tyroneman on May 18, 2014, 07:54:55 PM
Curates egg of a game. A few observations...
At half time Tyrone were comfortable with the match being played at McKenna cup pace and looked in no bother.
Poor shot selection at the start of the second half meant we didn't pull away and put the game to bed.
Black card was right decision for Morgan but Down player should have went for Tyrone pen. Coldrick very inconsistant.
S Cav was dragged and pulled all match. Ref was right to give that last free (I watched it again when I got in from the game)
For the last 2 Down goals P Harte looked to be at fault - way behind his man? For a keeper to be beaten at his near post (second Down goal) is criminal anyhow.
Morgans kick outs are great.....we lost vistually everything at MF when he went off. Kicking to a lone Colm Cav surrounded by 3 Down players was madness, yet happened time and time again.
Danny McBride..while game and went for everything.. won very little off his man....not the answer at FB.
Sean Cav is not a CHF. We lack someone with a bit of guile in there to feed the forwards.... hammering high hopefull balls inot McCurry and Coney is the road to nowhere.
McKenna..not a good day at the office..is he really a FF?
Both teams will feel they should have won this..both will fancy themselves in the replay.
Unles Tyrone improve that defence though.......Down will probably sneak it.
Will be very suprised if MH doesn't make at least 2-3 changes with Penrose and possibly Justy starting, Clarke moved to Wing back.
Not sure what 'facade' Down 'peeled' away (according to Brolly) - no one in Tyrone thinks now or thought beofre the game that we have an AI winning team on our hands with that defence..
Good points as usual. Would agree with most of that. Will be interested to see the goals on TV - crowd around me were on Petey Harte's back about a couple as he was the nearest defender but it's hard to know if he was at fault at pitch level and with rain in me eyes! The weather had a massive impact on the game and I'd say Tyrone definitely took their eye off the ball. A more clinical side would have been out of sight at HT.
Replay in Newry Saturday 7pm
Mc Kenna was giving his man to much space from the long kick pass prior to goal. As ONeill has said the half backs are all advancing and leaving acres of space for that long ball.
Were did Clarke play today? Can't recall him being on the ball to much, game seem to pass him by.
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
Quote from: orangeman on May 18, 2014, 08:08:18 PM
Replay in Newry Saturday 7pm
The GAA / Ulster council are one tran, useless bunch of feckers. A little nous would have let anyone with ( heaven forbid) an interest in other sports see the replay and the CL final.
Obviously the replay will take priority but a little sense would have been nice
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
morgans kick outs were brilliant and with his free taking abilities he is a big assett to tyrone, was glad to see him get the line.
yeah there would be some interest amongst Gaels in Tyrone / Down in a match between two spanish teams lol ;D ;D
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 08:19:45 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
morgans kick outs were brilliant and with his free taking abilities he is a big assett to tyrone, was glad to see him get the line.
Well, flight of the earls and all that jazz.
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
What a load of balls. Morgan is a fantastic keeper, easily in the top three in the country. McCurry has been our mist consistent forward this last two years. His finish today was top class.
Did anyone notice the Down backroom team member when Down were 2 up with the 35 minutes almost up, run out and floor the Down 10 in order to waste time ?
Novel tactics which nearly worked. That's bringing tactics to a new level.
Quote from: orangeman on May 18, 2014, 08:44:50 PM
Did anyone notice the Down backroom team member when Down were 2 up with the 35 minutes almost up, run out and floor the Down 10 in order to waste time ?
Novel tactics which nearly worked. That's bringing tactics to a new level.
I totally saw that! I wondered what he was up to, thought he was going to at least make the player sit down and feign cramp but he seemed to just run round him and back again.
You would have fancied Morgan to save at least one of those goals.
Surely Mickey O'Neill should have been given one or two games in the National League this season.
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
What a load of balls. Morgan is a fantastic keeper, easily in the top three in the country. McCurry has been our mist consistent forward this last two years. His finish today was top class.
Few questions for Coldrick?
What was he thinking for the Tyrone Penalty? How was it not a black card and where was the advantage?
Why did he give Conor Lavery a yellow card for striking SeanC?
Is the black card not for a deliberate foul? If so Morgan's foul wasn't deliberate, penalty yes but he had committed to spreading himself and had been sent the wrong way by the Down player, penalty yes but black card no!
Also why wait until Big Sean goes to ground to give him his free?
I will revert to M Harte's 10 year old sermon about consistently in referring must come first!
With all that said Tyrone's defence is a shambles and probably deserved to lose
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
What a load of balls. Morgan is a fantastic keeper, easily in the top three in the country. McCurry has been our mist consistent forward this last two years. His finish today was top class.
arsehole in the pub at my phone. .. loada balls your correct... never leave your phone when you go yo the toilet....fact....
Arguably Down were able to get back into the team when the Tyrone keeper got the black card.
Morgan's kick outs are brilliant.
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:49:00 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
What a load of balls. Morgan is a fantastic keeper, easily in the top three in the country. McCurry has been our mist consistent forward this last two years. His finish today was top class.
arsehole in the pub at my phone. .. loada balls your correct... never leave your phone when you go yo the toilet....fact....
Ah that old one ;-)
My Defence Next week
PJ Justy McCrory
Harte Donnelly McNabb
By the way, I thought Aidan McCrory was really good today, a lot (including myself) were questioning his place. Won nearly everything in his direction in the first half and made a fine run to set up McCurry's goal.
I thought Morgan should have got a red card for the foul. Didn't make any attempt to play the ball & just kicked the Down player. Cluxton got a red for less!
Clinton card what?
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:52:43 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:49:00 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:44:17 PM
Quote from: bigtogs on May 18, 2014, 08:12:48 PM
Morgan is a looney bin went a long way in beating tyrone last year.... And for what he done today was plain stupid..... Harte has never gave Mickey oneill any game time in the league for some experience for to be in a position to just to throw him in mid game is difficult for any goalkeeper Dublin had something similar when cluxtan got sent off....time and time again Mickey Harte is leaving more questions than answers with team selections...... My curry will never be a champ footballer when push come to shove either...
What a load of balls. Morgan is a fantastic keeper, easily in the top three in the country. McCurry has been our mist consistent forward this last two years. His finish today was top class.
arsehole in the pub at my phone. .. loada balls your correct... never leave your phone when you go yo the toilet....fact....
Ah that old one ;-)
lol
Proud of our comeback as first half was dire and Tyrone should have been further aheay at halftime. Good calls from James although I think Peter Turley was injured and Ambrose looked like he was carrying an injury also. Kilcoo men lifted us along with Benny's presence and Doyler's brains. Ten electric minutes of all that is good about Down football should have got us over the line but Donal didn't look confident and it was inevitable that the Coldrick/Cavanagh combination would produce a nice earner for the Ulster council. No-one outstanding for us but Carr, McKernan,Madine and especially Mc Ginn put in big shifts. Strange selection and tactics from Mickey, Morgan so important for them, Matty Donnelly and Coney are super footballers but unlike most here, I think Sean Cavanagh was superb. Jerome Johnston was the mentor who ran into McGinn but his boys had the balls for the fight. We had no fear of Omagh and we fear no-one in Newry.
That game today will help bring Tyrone along in their quest for the Anglo Celt, and a Saturday night in Newry packed to the rafters with Down Fans,and a Down team smelling blood, will bring them on further. You Tyronies may not respect us but at least you should thank us
Is it just me, or is Tyrone's annual circuit of Ireland starting earlier every year? At least they won't need a Sat nav to find Newry.
Replay clashes with champions league final.
So?
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
Few questions for Coldrick?
What was he thinking for the Tyrone Penalty? How was it not a black card and where was the advantage?
Why did he give Conor Lavery a yellow card for striking SeanC?
Is the black card not for a deliberate foul? If so Morgan's foul wasn't deliberate, penalty yes but he had committed to spreading himself and had been sent the wrong way by the Down player, penalty yes but black card no!
Also why wait until Big Sean goes to ground to give him his free?
I will revert to M Harte's 10 year old sermon about consistently in referring must come first!
With all that said Tyrone's defence is a shambles and probably deserved to lose
Ref got it completely wrong on penalty. Should have played advantage and/or black card. People make mistakes.
Morgan definitely appeared to be deliberate trip. Black card correct.
Big Sean goes to ground that quick that the referee doesn't have time to blow his whistle before he hits the ground.
Despite the criticism that will not be the worst refereeing performance of the year.
Thought both teams deserved to lose at one stage or other. Draw fair enough.
Quote from: Pangurban on May 18, 2014, 09:18:16 PM
That game today will help bring Tyrone along in their quest for the Anglo Celt, and a Saturday night in Newry packed to the rafters with Down Fans,and a Down team smelling blood, will bring them on further. You Tyronies may not respect us but at least you should thank us
I think you guys are closer to an Anglo than we are.
Quote from: God14 on May 18, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
Ooh how quickly you guys forget
If Armagh had Mickey we would have more than one all Ireland .
To the game, thought after first half Tyrone would push on, they were very poor in the second half,with down stepping it up and benny leading by example
Was in a pub full of Armagh men and to a man we were supporting our mourne neighbours, never saw as much venom against Tyrone before.
Hope down push on and beat them next week.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 18, 2014, 09:25:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
Few questions for Coldrick?
What was he thinking for the Tyrone Penalty? How was it not a black card and where was the advantage?
Why did he give Conor Lavery a yellow card for striking SeanC?
Is the black card not for a deliberate foul? If so Morgan's foul wasn't deliberate, penalty yes but he had committed to spreading himself and had been sent the wrong way by the Down player, penalty yes but black card no!
Also why wait until Big Sean goes to ground to give him his free?
I will revert to M Harte's 10 year old sermon about consistently in referring must come first!
With all that said Tyrone's defence is a shambles and probably deserved to lose
Ref got it completely wrong on penalty. Should have played advantage and/or black card. People make mistakes.
Morgan definitely appeared to be deliberate trip. Black card correct.
Big Sean goes to ground that quick that the referee doesn't have time to blow his whistle before he hits the ground.
Despite the criticism that will not be the worst refereeing performance of the year.
Thought both teams deserved to lose at one stage or other. Draw fair enough.
Appearing to be a deliberate trip I agree but after viewing the replay it defo wasn't a penalty yes but never a black card
Coldrick's reaction time must be super slow (a possibility) if it takes him 10 secs to blow a for a foul? Big S was fouled multiple times he didnt foul himself
Also do u actually think it was a bad refereeing performance? U seem to have justified most of his mistakes
Down v Tyrone & Down v Monaghan will be the next two matches in the Marshes.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 18, 2014, 09:21:45 PM
Is it just me, or is Tyrone's annual circuit of Ireland starting earlier every year? At least they won't need a Sat nav to find Newry.
one would need one to find the pass though, worst pitch in ulster, makes banbridge look like croke park.
I just love the way 20min of decent football has unleashed the famed Down 'swagger'
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
I don't understand why any Tyrone or Down fan would stay at home to watch two Spanish teams in a European final, instead of supporting their team in Newry.
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 09:34:55 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 18, 2014, 09:25:33 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
Few questions for Coldrick?
What was he thinking for the Tyrone Penalty? How was it not a black card and where was the advantage?
Why did he give Conor Lavery a yellow card for striking SeanC?
Is the black card not for a deliberate foul? If so Morgan's foul wasn't deliberate, penalty yes but he had committed to spreading himself and had been sent the wrong way by the Down player, penalty yes but black card no!
Also why wait until Big Sean goes to ground to give him his free?
I will revert to M Harte's 10 year old sermon about consistently in referring must come first!
With all that said Tyrone's defence is a shambles and probably deserved to lose
Ref got it completely wrong on penalty. Should have played advantage and/or black card. People make mistakes.
Morgan definitely appeared to be deliberate trip. Black card correct.
Big Sean goes to ground that quick that the referee doesn't have time to blow his whistle before he hits the ground.
Despite the criticism that will not be the worst refereeing performance of the year.
Thought both teams deserved to lose at one stage or other. Draw fair enough.
Appearing to be a deliberate trip I agree but after viewing the replay it defo wasn't a penalty yes but never a black card
Coldrick's reaction time must be super slow (a possibility) if it takes him 10 secs to blow a for a foul? Big S was fouled multiple times he didnt foul himself
Also do u actually think it was a bad refereeing performance? U seem to have justified most of his mistakes
Deliberate trip is black card. How would it not be one?
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
Quote from: naka on May 18, 2014, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: God14 on May 18, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
Ooh how quickly you guys forget
If Armagh had Mickey we would have more than one all Ireland .
To the game, thought after first half Tyrone would push on, they were very poor in the second half,with down stepping it up and benny leading by example
Was in a pub full of Armagh men and to a man we were supporting our mourne neighbours, never saw as much venom against Tyrone before.
Hope down push on and beat them next week.
+1
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
That shimmy of his is too many steps too, and should be clamped down on.
Quote from: naka on May 18, 2014, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: God14 on May 18, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
Ooh how quickly you guys forget
If Armagh had Mickey we would have more than one all Ireland .
To the game, thought after first half Tyrone would push on, they were very poor in the second half,with down stepping it up and benny leading by example
Was in a pub full of Armagh men and to a man we were supporting our mourne neighbours, never saw as much venom against Tyrone before.
Hope down push on and beat them next week.
LOL. Tyrone continuing to torture the Armagh ones. Class!!!
Quote from: Aaron Boone on May 18, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
Down v Tyrone & Down v Monaghan will be the next two matches in the Marshes.
Winners of Tyrone /Down play Monaghan in Clones!!!
What the people watching on TV don't see is the constant fouling of cavanagh of the ball. He was fouled at least twice before the final free and constantly pulled of the ball.
Tyrones 2 big problems are being wide open in defence and not contesting breaking ball for periods of games. The Sunday game highlighted tonight just how bad we were for a ten minute spell at kick outs. We don't catch many in midfield and aren't getting out caught so need bodies in fighting for ball. That's why I couldn't understand why penrose wasn't on earlier as he will win ballad why we constantly leave our midfielders isolated against multiple players from the other team.
We'll have the usual over reaction from some supporters but we always start the championship slow even during the 2000s. We had the exact same over the top reaction from many in 08. I'd like to see penrose in for mcginley and justy and Gormley in to shore up defence. A few changes and I'd be hopeful of a win next week. Stevie looked sharp enough coming on which could be a big plus.
Mcginley does a lot of running but doesn't really cover defence, offer a scoring threat or get stuck in for breaking ball. Will be lucky to start next week.
Can't believe people are criticising the 7pm start next week over a champions league game involving 2 Spanish teams. If be very surprised if it had any impact. Someone said it was unfair on sports fans. If that's the case it can't be at 5 as the Heineken cup final is on. Probably English soccer on earlier to with play offs so maybe it should just be called off? Also I'm sure people working on Saturday will prefer a 7 start.
Quote from: Gaffer on May 18, 2014, 10:24:46 PM
Quote from: naka on May 18, 2014, 09:30:21 PM
Quote from: God14 on May 18, 2014, 05:58:53 PM
Mickey Harte is holding Tyrone back at the moment.
Ooh how quickly you guys forget
If Armagh had Mickey we would have more than one all Ireland .
To the game, thought after first half Tyrone would push on, they were very poor in the second half,with down stepping it up and benny leading by example
Was in a pub full of Armagh men and to a man we were supporting our mourne neighbours, never saw as much venom against Tyrone before.
Hope down push on and beat them next week.
LOL. Tyrone continuing to torture the Armagh ones. Class!!!
Whereas Tyrone supporters always shout for Armagh?
Quote from: Gaffer on May 18, 2014, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on May 18, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
Down v Tyrone & Down v Monaghan will be the next two matches in the Marshes.
Winners of Tyrone /Down play Monaghan in Clones!!!
If Down win on Saturday the quarter-final is in Newry.
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:54:40 PM
By the way, I thought Aidan McCrory was really good today, a lot (including myself) were questioning his place. Won nearly everything in his direction in the first half and made a fine run to set up McCurry's goal.
I agree with that, i actually think he was tyrones best player today. Did very well to keep Poland quiet
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 18, 2014, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 18, 2014, 08:54:40 PM
By the way, I thought Aidan McCrory was really good today, a lot (including myself) were questioning his place. Won nearly everything in his direction in the first half and made a fine run to set up McCurry's goal.
I agree with that, i actually think he was tyrones best player today. Did very well to keep Poland quiet
Yeah for all the talk of Poland before the game, McCrory kept him very much in check.
Disappointed we didn't see anything of mcaliskey or Ronan oneill today. Still fancy Tyrone for the replay.
My team for next week:
Morgan
McCrory
Justy
Gormley
Harte
Matty Donnelly
Clarke
Colm C
Sean C
Mark Donnelly
Shay McGuigan/Ronan O'Neill
Penrose
McCurry
SON
Coney
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
who ta fk cares about two spanish teams playing each other...
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
So nobody will have an interest in the Cl final? yeah right ::)
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 18, 2014, 11:10:37 PM
who ta fk cares about two spanish teams playing each other...
Quite a lot of people. It's
only the European Cup final, like.
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
The crowd might be affected but I wouldn't think the GAA should be fixing its games on the basis of what other sports events might be on. Barring an Irish team getting to a major sporting event I would't think the GAA should concern itself about the CL or the like.
the only people impacted will be arm chair viewers who wouldnt be at the match anyway.They will have to switch over their remotes every ten minutes... The crowd wont be effected by this in any way...
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 18, 2014, 11:10:37 PM
who ta fk cares about two spanish teams playing each other...
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
The champions league final is the biggest club final in world sport. Possibly only the World Cup final is a bigger final. It doesn't matter if it is 2 Spanish sides involved. It is massive and it will have an impact on attendance. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Yes, that must be quite embarrassing for anyone from Tyrone.
Does anyone know why Ronan O'Neill wasn't involved? He has been in great form lately, surely worth a place in the starting 15 ahead of McKenna. Apart from Coney, McCurry and Big Sean, we have no men who can take a few scores from play. Defence was wide open today, McBride and Ryan McKenna well behind their men every time. Gormley, Justy and Penrose would all improve the team, question is whether they're fit for 70 minutes? And if not, does he start them or wait to have the best team on at the finish? My team for Saturday would be
1 Morgan 2 McCrory 3 Justy McMahon 4 Gormley/Tierney 5 McGinley 6 Matty Donnelly 7 Harte 8 Colm Cavanagh 9 Clarke 10 Mark Donnelly 11 Sean Cavanagh 12 Penrose 13 McCurry 14 Ronan O'Neill 15 Coney
Today's game was almost a repeat of this game in 2003 http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2003/0714/sport/red-hand-claw-their-way-backbr-638157431.html
Chris Lavin i think was dropped after that game. Mickey Harte will know tonight if they are to make an impact in this years championship they must improve their defence or defensive system again.
Quote from: clarshack on May 18, 2014, 11:25:42 PM
The champions league final is the biggest club final in world sport. Possibly only the World Cup final is a bigger final. It doesn't matter if it is 2 Spanish sides involved. It is massive and it will have an impact on attendance. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
People will have to make a choice, watch a game on TV between two teams they might have seen a few times before this year or their county team. The GAA shouldn't fix their games around the CL or Heineken cup finals, people simply have to make a choice.
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Watch the slow motion replay of that "tap" in the ribs. A punch to the ribs by a man of any size can take the wind and make a man howl like a big girl. I've been on the receiving end of a few in my time and it takes a few seconds to recover ....... But you do recover - I wouldn't say there's a big mystery to it. With the final free, Sean was getting dragged all over the show - if going to ground is the way to alert the (completely incompetent) ref to what's going on - then so be it.
As for the ref - I believe he was part of the team that put together the video explaining the new rules. Now, if he can't work out the black card and advantage rules then what chance have we got of getting any sort of consistency this year?
As for Tyrone, a bad day at the office - Fair play to Down for battling back but Tyrone have been slow starters in the championship in the last number of years, I think we will see a much improved performance next week. With potentially Justy and Gormley back in contention then maybe that will release Matty Donnelly back into the forward line? Good to see Stevie O'Neill back too and look fairly sharp. Plenty of room for optimism with two hard championship games behind us before the end of May.
My team for the replay:
Morgan
McRory
Gormley
McGinley
Clarke
Justy
Harte
C.Cavanagh
S.Cavanagh
Mark Donnelly
Ronan O'Neill
Matty Donnelly
McCurry
Coney
McAliskey
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Big Sean got a vicious cowardly dig in the ribs while he was coming through at full flight. There is history there between Lavery and him and it was no accident as the replay shows.
Question is why was Lavery booked for striking? SHOULD HAVE WALKED!
It's Laverty.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 18, 2014, 11:57:40 PM
It's Laverty.
Oh Sorry
"Cowardly little runt" will do him rightly
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Big Sean got a vicious cowardly dig in the ribs while he was coming through at full flight. There is history there between Lavery and him and it was no accident as the replay shows.
Question is why was Lavery booked for striking? SHOULD HAVE WALKED!
No. Lads get digs all the time. The question is why Cavanagh makes a spectacle of himself by performing convulsive gyrations on the ground fifteen seconds after the event as if he was being zapped by a couple of invisible 440KV electrodes. It's embarrassing. Act like a man, ffs.
Very disappointing display from Tyrone today, no passion, no system and a manager whose living in the
Dark ages. The game today has moved on.
Make no mistake Tyrone as always have some fantastic players, but in the name of god mickey harte
Has had plenty of time to get it right in defence, we have conceded more goals so far this season than any team
In the country, yet me included,
consider this team real all Ireland contenders ......... Something does not add up?
in my opinion ..... Today Tyrone played a 2ñd rate down rate team, who were all, bar 17 mins playing second fiddle,
We were ahead by 7 points , yet concede two goals with mindless defending and a manager standing motionless on the sideline .... Hardley something to give the real passionate supporters of Tyrone football to hang on to..... We deserve better than this,
At the end of the day, I expect Tyrone to win the replay @ a cander, bury a 3rd rate monaghan, and win the ulster final against whoever, .... But light years away from an all Ireland and looking for a new progressive manager.
we all need to move on. .............
John Wayne has nothing on Big Sean's true grit and ability to carry his severely wounded body through a game, as if he was merely ballet dancing. That was a stunning stoic performance right to the end, when Big Sean (all 100kg) was fearlessly willing to dive on damaged ribs to copper fasten the last chance free, get up on his feet with just a mere hint of a grimace and knock the (so called) pressure kick over the bar.
I hope he /wife /kids/cousins manage to dodge the inevitable slings and arrows directed his way after yet another Brolly vindictive indulgence.
They say the underdog's day has been lost after they let the fancied team off the hook to gain a draw, but I think in this case Down will feel okay about the replay and their chances of getting through.
Tyrone, more and more have to depend on cynical stunts just to stay in contention, whereas in the past they had a real football team to back up their cynical side.
Quote from: Hardy on May 19, 2014, 12:03:07 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 18, 2014, 11:54:01 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Big Sean got a vicious cowardly dig in the ribs while he was coming through at full flight. There is history there between Lavery and him and it was no accident as the replay shows.
Question is why was Lavery booked for striking? SHOULD HAVE WALKED!
No. Lads get digs all the time. The question is why Cavanagh makes a spectacle of himself by performing convulsive gyrations on the ground fifteen seconds after the event as if he was being zapped by a couple of invisible 440KV electrodes. It's embarrassing. Act like a man, ffs.
Have you ever got a dig in the ribs while in full flight? Yes well then you will know it is extremely painfull
Lets stick to the facts here.
Are you saying it was not a foul?
Are you saying that striking is not a red card offence?
Here's the facts:
It was deliberate, cowardly, dangerous and the perpertrator SHOULD HAVE WALKED
Quote from: Jinxy on May 18, 2014, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: PaddyP73 on May 18, 2014, 10:06:43 PM
Sean Cavanagh diving out there today was embarrassing out today.His brother Colm is just as bad,There getting away with this for years
He got a tap in the midriff in the 2nd half and I thought his spleen must have exploded going by his reaction.
It was not unlike that of a goldfish that had just been tipped out of it's bowl.
Ten seconds later he was up and about again without a care in the world.
Why does he do it?
Some of the Klinsmann like diving he gets up to is embarrassing alright. I suppose with his direct running and scoring threat he definitely gets a lot of close attention during matches. Continual fouling by the opposition throughout his career has undoubtedly led to this pavlovian conditioning. In fairness he was in good company out there . One of the Down defenders went down like a sack of sh*t after the slightest of touches from a Tyrone forward, the ref told him to get up, it was cringeworthy stuff.
shame shame and more shame - exactly the wrong example to teach anyone - there is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT DIVING - lets not pretend - that free at the end was a dive DIVE DIVE DIVE - Shame on that - defend all you want tyrone men - that was a DIVE
Quote from: Main Street on May 19, 2014, 12:15:34 AM
John Wayne has nothing on Big Sean's true grit and ability to carry his severely wounded body through a game, as if he was merely ballet dancing. That was a stunning stoic performance right to the end, when Big Sean (all 100kg) was fearlessly willing to dive on damaged ribs to copper fasten the last chance free, get up on his feet with just a mere hint of a grimace and knock the (so called) pressure kick over the bar.
I hope he /wife /kids/cousins manage to dodge the inevitable slings and arrows directed his way after yet another Brolly vindictive indulgence.
They say the underdog's day has been lost after they let the fancied team off the hook to gain a draw, but I think in this case Down will feel okay about the replay and their chances of getting through.
Tyrone, more and more have to depend on cynical stunts just to stay in contention, whereas in the past they had a real football team to back up their cynical side.
[/quote.
Get a grip you clown..
Quote from: Agent Orange on May 18, 2014, 05:20:51 PM
Cathal McCarron only robbed a few houses and got run out of Tyrone, David Coldrick is robbing an entire county.
INAPPROPRIATE >:(
Quote from: hectorsheroes on May 19, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
shame shame and more shame - exactly the wrong example to teach anyone - there is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT DIVING - lets not pretend - that free at the end was a dive DIVE DIVE DIVE - Shame on that - defend all you want tyrone men - that was a DIVE
If the ref gives the free for blatant hauling and dragging (cynical play) then the player doesn't have to go to ground. Why shouldn't he bring fouls to the attention of the referee? Should he let himself get dragged all over Healy Park, when his team need a score to stay in the championship just because the ref is turning a blind eye and to keep faceless internet warriors happy? Sean's our go to man in these situations and Down know it, I'm happy he did what he had to do. A foul occurred, we got the free, Sean showed his class to put it over and we are still in the championship. Maybe Down will think twice before they try their cynical fouling on him next week.
Terrific game. I was impressed by Down and they showed great character. I hope they win the replay, because that was a blatant dive at the end. Not nice to see.
Anyway, I think we can safely say that neither team will be winning Ulster, at least that's my own personal opinion. It's hard enough winning Ulster from the preliminary round without having to replay it.
Not only the free at the end. But the tyrone goal in the second half came from a dive from the tyrone full back, deceiving a poor referee which led to the goal. Im just after watching the game again and Coldrick was nothing short of dreadful throughout.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 19, 2014, 01:02:02 AM
Quote from: hectorsheroes on May 19, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
shame shame and more shame - exactly the wrong example to teach anyone - there is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT DIVING - lets not pretend - that free at the end was a dive DIVE DIVE DIVE - Shame on that - defend all you want tyrone men - that was a DIVE
If the ref gives the free for blatant hauling and dragging (cynical play) then the player doesn't have to go to ground. Why shouldn't he bring fouls to the attention of the referee? Should he let himself get dragged all over Healy Park, when his team need a score to stay in the championship just because the ref is turning a blind eye and to keep faceless internet warriors happy? Sean's our go to man in these situations and Down know it, I'm happy he did what he had to do. A foul occurred, we got the free, Sean showed his class to put it over and we are still in the championship. Maybe Down will think twice before they try their cynical fouling on him next week.
Here Here
Fact is Sean was fouled multiple times and didnt get a free. He hits the deck and he gets one, who's in the wrong
The offending player? YES
The referee? YES
Sean Cav NO
End of story!
Quote. . One of the Down defenders went down like a sack of sh*t after the slightest of touches from a Tyrone forward, the ref told him to get up, it was cringeworthy stuff.
Yeh. The fella marking Coney tried to hit him with a shoulder to the chest off the ball after Kyle popped over a nice score. Kyle stood his ground and yer man hit the deck
holding his head. Laughable.
Coldrick made a major balls with the (lack of) black card for the Tyrone pen, but sure it's par for the course for him when he referees us. Also remember Sparky nearly being decapitated late in the second half and not even a free.
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2014, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 18, 2014, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on May 18, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
Down v Tyrone & Down v Monaghan will be the next two matches in the Marshes.
Winners of Tyrone /Down play Monaghan in Clones!!!
If Down win on Saturday the quarter-final is in Newry.
I doubt that now. Probably Clones no matter who wins next week.
Quote from: Maguire01 on May 19, 2014, 07:33:36 AM
Quote from: Schkite on May 18, 2014, 10:33:29 PM
Quote from: Gaffer on May 18, 2014, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on May 18, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
Down v Tyrone & Down v Monaghan will be the next two matches in the Marshes.
Winners of Tyrone /Down play Monaghan in Clones!!!
If Down win on Saturday the quarter-final is in Newry.
I doubt that now. Probably Clones no matter who wins next week.
If Tyrone win match is in Clones if Down win match is in Newry due to Down being originally drawn away from home in Preliminary round, regardless of the fact the match went to a replay.
Watched the game in full there. Sorry if I'm only joining with a chorus.
While Down should be commended for getting back into a game they could have lost by half time, they'd have to be sick not to have won that with some of the chances in the last ten minutes. I've seen Meath do that in games recently that they could have won.
Tyrone were lucky of course. I can't say I'm completely au fait with the black card rule but surely Tyrone's keeper should have got a red, no?
I hate diving as much as anyone and I don't think we should explain it away or excuse it. Sean was far from the only one doing it, I guess it's just a bit more noticeable and comical when it's someone as big as him.
It's the next big challenge for the officials. Perhaps a pink card with a pansy on it. There's no punishment as such for getting the pansy card. Just shame on you and your family.
Quote from: ardtole on May 19, 2014, 02:18:45 AM
Not only the free at the end. But the tyrone goal in the second half came from a dive from the tyrone full back, deceiving a poor referee which led to the goal. Im just after watching the game again and Coldrick was nothing short of dreadful throughout.
That was one of the worst decisions I've ever seen. We often say 'he never touched him' as an exaggeration, but literally the fb bent down, lifted the ball of the ground and then fell, the down man just standing behind him with his hands up, and the ref gave a free out. I really hope these lads are made watch their performances and account for some of the decisions they're making, but I doubt it.
Jeez us Tyronies do some crying!! Cavanagh did dive for his free at the end and got us a draw...Who cares!!!?? How else where we going to score!! Also stop complaining about Laverty's dig to the ribs.. we've had defenders doing that for many of year! problem is we don have them now!! The down defender is the stupid one for giving the free away!! The important things from the game that worry me are our defence and how we were cleaned out in the middle. I question our system - why play with forwards who cant score and offer little threat - Mark Donnelly plays all his football in defence - Mc Ginley is a defender who should be in the half back line! Niall Mc Kenna's strength is fielding - not scoring - why does he start FF?? We have players like Ronie o Neill, Mc Alisky & She on the bench - Why not use them... We need to stop crying over silly things and look at the bigger picture...
Quote from: hectorsheroes on May 19, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
shame shame and more shame - exactly the wrong example to teach anyone - there is absolutely NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT DIVING - lets not pretend - that free at the end was a dive DIVE DIVE DIVE - Shame on that - defend all you want tyrone men - that was a DIVE
I certainly think cavanagh dived and made alot out of different challenges throughout the game, something I cant stand.
But make no mistake about it, the free at the end was a foul.
The referee warned the Down defender several times for holding him, he continued to do it.It was a definite foul.
Something does have to be done about diving, it happened all over the feild yesterday with Laverty & Cavanagh the most obvious culprits.
The most recent rule changes have increased the gains from diving if you get away with it, without adding any further punishment for doing it .
Ya'd have to laugh at some of the selective viewing some of the posters on here had of the game. Firstly anyone who things it wasn't a free at the end after watching the replays is deluded. The foul was going on for about 3-4 seconds before the free was actually given. It's fecking clear on the replays. While I'll completely admit Cavanagh goes down easy for frees, he was out in front of his man and as it was of the ball he wouldn't have had a clue where the ref was looking. It would have been a huge risk to take a dive especially as he was out in front and odds on to win the ball anyway.
As for the rest of the game. The first half was a tame affair by championship standards. Tyrone huffed and puffed and gave fleeting glimpses of potential. But the quality of football in general was terrible. Conditions weren't great, but I've seen club players handle worse conditions better. Still too much carrying of the ball into the tackle. I know playing against a packed defence means it can be hard to hit the ball into space, but carrying it repeatedly into tackles isn't the answer either. You just get swallowed up.
Changing of the game was the black card of Morgan. As has been mentioned, Tyrone lost all possesion when O'Neill came on. You'd feel sorry on him that he didn't get more time during the League and McKenna cup as he looked slightly lost. But Tyrone's midfield seemed to lose they're legs at this stage aswell which wouldn't have made it easy to pick out midfielders. The black card was the correct decision. Some calling for a red, possibly but think it would have been very harsh. For Tyrone's penalty, I think the ref had blown the whistle before Donnelly had got the kick away. So once it's blown he can't give advantage. And to be fair I didn't think Donnelly was going to get the kick away either so I wouldn't chastise him too much for not playing the advantage there. But he was definitely at fault for not giving the black card. It was a text book black card. And should have been a very easy call for the ref as he had a clear view. So I'm sure he'll get a slap on the wrist for that. And rightly so.
The second half was certainly more entertaining and the attacking play was better. But some of the defending was shambolic. Tyrone definitely need personell changes in there. Hopefully Justy and Conor can get a bit of fitness back and get in contention for a starting slot.
Another bug bear that came from the game yesterday is the lack of regulation on steps by refs this year. There was numerous times yesterday for both teams when they over ran the ball without punishment. It seems to have gotten looser this year than any other year. And this as well as the black card have tipped the advantage too much in favour of the attacker.
But fair play to Cavanagh for the free at the end. Huge kick under pressure.
We go again.
Any word on TV coverage for Saturday evening?
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
Heavens forbid that people be interested in both gaelic and soccer. If both games are on TV I would say a lot of people could be tempted to have the chance to watch both. By attending the Down Tyrone game you don't have that chance.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 09:01:34 AM
Ya'd have to laugh at some of the selective viewing some of the posters on here had of the game. Firstly anyone who things it wasn't a free at the end after watching the replays is deluded. The foul was going on for about 3-4 seconds before the free was actually given. It's fecking clear on the replays. While I'll completely admit Cavanagh goes down easy for frees, he was out in front of his man and as it was of the ball he wouldn't have had a clue where the ref was looking. It would have been a huge risk to take a dive especially as he was out in front and odds on to win the ball anyway.
As for the rest of the game. The first half was a tame affair by championship standards. Tyrone huffed and puffed and gave fleeting glimpses of potential. But the quality of football in general was terrible. Conditions weren't great, but I've seen club players handle worse conditions better. Still too much carrying of the ball into the tackle. I know playing against a packed defence means it can be hard to hit the ball into space, but carrying it repeatedly into tackles isn't the answer either. You just get swallowed up.
Changing of the game was the black card of Morgan. As has been mentioned, Tyrone lost all possesion when O'Neill came on. You'd feel sorry on him that he didn't get more time during the League and McKenna cup as he looked slightly lost. But Tyrone's midfield seemed to lose they're legs at this stage aswell which wouldn't have made it easy to pick out midfielders. The black card was the correct decision. Some calling for a red, possibly but think it would have been very harsh. For Tyrone's penalty, I think the ref had blown the whistle before Donnelly had got the kick away. So once it's blown he can't give advantage. And to be fair I didn't think Donnelly was going to get the kick away either so I wouldn't chastise him too much for not playing the advantage there. But he was definitely at fault for not giving the black card. It was a text book black card. And should have been a very easy call for the ref as he had a clear view. So I'm sure he'll get a slap on the wrist for that. And rightly so.
The second half was certainly more entertaining and the attacking play was better. But some of the defending was shambolic. Tyrone definitely need personell changes in there. Hopefully Justy and Conor can get a bit of fitness back and get in contention for a starting slot.
Another bug bear that came from the game yesterday is the lack of regulation on steps by refs this year. There was numerous times yesterday for both teams when they over ran the ball without punishment. It seems to have gotten looser this year than any other year. And this as well as the black card have tipped the advantage too much in favour of the attacker.
But fair play to Cavanagh for the free at the end. Huge kick under pressure.
We go again.
I agree with all of that, a good summary of the game.
Interesting that Brolly didnt mention the lack of balck card for mcginn. He certainly doesnt want 'his ' new rule to get any bad press.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 19, 2014, 09:11:32 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 09:01:34 AM
Ya'd have to laugh at some of the selective viewing some of the posters on here had of the game. Firstly anyone who things it wasn't a free at the end after watching the replays is deluded. The foul was going on for about 3-4 seconds before the free was actually given. It's fecking clear on the replays. While I'll completely admit Cavanagh goes down easy for frees, he was out in front of his man and as it was of the ball he wouldn't have had a clue where the ref was looking. It would have been a huge risk to take a dive especially as he was out in front and odds on to win the ball anyway.
As for the rest of the game. The first half was a tame affair by championship standards. Tyrone huffed and puffed and gave fleeting glimpses of potential. But the quality of football in general was terrible. Conditions weren't great, but I've seen club players handle worse conditions better. Still too much carrying of the ball into the tackle. I know playing against a packed defence means it can be hard to hit the ball into space, but carrying it repeatedly into tackles isn't the answer either. You just get swallowed up.
Changing of the game was the black card of Morgan. As has been mentioned, Tyrone lost all possesion when O'Neill came on. You'd feel sorry on him that he didn't get more time during the League and McKenna cup as he looked slightly lost. But Tyrone's midfield seemed to lose they're legs at this stage aswell which wouldn't have made it easy to pick out midfielders. The black card was the correct decision. Some calling for a red, possibly but think it would have been very harsh. For Tyrone's penalty, I think the ref had blown the whistle before Donnelly had got the kick away. So once it's blown he can't give advantage. And to be fair I didn't think Donnelly was going to get the kick away either so I wouldn't chastise him too much for not playing the advantage there. But he was definitely at fault for not giving the black card. It was a text book black card. And should have been a very easy call for the ref as he had a clear view. So I'm sure he'll get a slap on the wrist for that. And rightly so.
The second half was certainly more entertaining and the attacking play was better. But some of the defending was shambolic. Tyrone definitely need personell changes in there. Hopefully Justy and Conor can get a bit of fitness back and get in contention for a starting slot.
Another bug bear that came from the game yesterday is the lack of regulation on steps by refs this year. There was numerous times yesterday for both teams when they over ran the ball without punishment. It seems to have gotten looser this year than any other year. And this as well as the black card have tipped the advantage too much in favour of the attacker.
But fair play to Cavanagh for the free at the end. Huge kick under pressure.
We go again.
I agree with all of that, a good summary of the game.
Interesting that Brolly didnt mention the lack of balck card for mcginn. He certainly doesnt want 'his ' new rule to get any bad press.
it was definitely mentioned by the panelists, along with the advantage rule.
regardless of who was diving yesterday, its a hot topic now and hopefully the powers that be can dab off the marie rose sauce and get the fingers out
It was an interesting battle yesterday. I do worry for Tyrone, there didn't seem to be a plan B yesterday. One thing that did strike me was the 14 man-to-man marking, its been a while since we seen this in the championship.
Terrible team selection yesterday and two of the biggest calls (McGinley and McKenna) really back fired. McGinley looked lost when under pressure up front and missed a lot of easy chances, but he is a defender and not a forward. I thought that during the league Tyrone had gone away from this endless carrying the ball game, and instead were focused on playing quick foot passes into the forwards. Yesterday ti seemed like Tyrone had reverted back to their old ways, maybe that was in part due to the lack of space seen up front with the number of Down bodies back, I dunno. The one thing that does worry me is how easily the Tyrone defence is opened up when a ball is fed in to the opposition full forward line who recycles it to a player who is running through. One of the goals yesterday came from this and Johnston also nearly had one through the same tactic. Surely the prevention of this should have been really worked on in training as it was happening very often in the Mayo, Kerry and Dublin games in the league. As someone said, maybe we have too many offensive orientated players in defence. I think people are being hard on McBride too, you have to consider that this was his first Ulster Championship start for Tyrone yet I think he performed well, with his man scoring maybe a point.
Did someone from Down kick Martin McHugh's dog or what?
He hadn't a good word to say about them the whole game, granted he had a field day in the first half as Down were dire, but once the two Johnstons and Benny Coulter (pronounced cool-ter on RTE for some reason) were introduced and Kiernan pushed into midfield, Tyrone were all over the shop. The free given to the Tyrone fullback when Madine was standing over him and not touching him was laughable and as pointed out by sidey, but Martins response was something about it hard for the ref to see!!
Big Whelahan and McStay called it right on the cards front, Maginn should have got a black card for the futile rugby tackle, but Morgan should have gotten a red for his bringing down of Johnston.
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 19, 2014, 09:34:29 AM
Terrible team selection yesterday and two of the biggest calls (McGinley and McKenna) really back fired. McGinley looked lost when under pressure up front and missed a lot of easy chances, but he is a defender and not a forward. I thought that during the league Tyrone had gone away from this endless carrying the ball game, and instead were focused on playing quick foot passes into the forwards. Yesterday ti seemed like Tyrone had reverted back to their old ways, maybe that was in part due to the lack of space seen up front with the number of Down bodies back, I dunno. The one thing that does worry me is how easily the Tyrone defence is opened up when a ball is fed in to the opposition full forward line who recycles it to a player who is running through. One of the goals yesterday came from this and Johnston also nearly had one through the same tactic. Surely the prevention of this should have been really worked on in training as it was happening very often in the Mayo, Kerry and Dublin games in the league. As someone said, maybe we have too many offensive orientated players in defence. I think people are being hard on McBride too, you have to consider that this was his first Ulster Championship start for Tyrone yet I think he performed well, with his man scoring maybe a point.
when the defence is opened up like that, it is all to easy to blame the full back line, but alot of it came from runners not being tracked from deep.
The defensive frailties are as much down to the half back line/midfield switching off and exposing the FB line as anything else
Quote from: Under Lights on May 19, 2014, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
Heavens forbid that people be interested in both gaelic and soccer. If both games are on TV I would say a lot of people could be tempted to have the chance to watch both. By attending the Down Tyrone game you don't have that chance.
Loads of people work Saturdays (possibly even some of the players!), so 7pm is more suitable time in my opinion.
Can't wait for the replay and hopeful Down can do it!
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 19, 2014, 09:34:29 AM
Terrible team selection yesterday and two of the biggest calls (McGinley and McKenna) really back fired. McGinley looked lost when under pressure up front and missed a lot of easy chances, but he is a defender and not a forward. I thought that during the league Tyrone had gone away from this endless carrying the ball game, and instead were focused on playing quick foot passes into the forwards. Yesterday ti seemed like Tyrone had reverted back to their old ways, maybe that was in part due to the lack of space seen up front with the number of Down bodies back, I dunno. The one thing that does worry me is how easily the Tyrone defence is opened up when a ball is fed in to the opposition full forward line who recycles it to a player who is running through. One of the goals yesterday came from this and Johnston also nearly had one through the same tactic. Surely the prevention of this should have been really worked on in training as it was happening very often in the Mayo, Kerry and Dublin games in the league. As someone said, maybe we have too many offensive orientated players in defence. I think people are being hard on McBride too, you have to consider that this was his first Ulster Championship start for Tyrone yet I think he performed well, with his man scoring maybe a point.
Agree with most of this. The same weaknesses that Tyrone had during the NFL were witnessed yesterday too, and it's worrying that there appears to be neither (A) a plan to change things or (B) the personnel to change things and/ or implement a plan.
The FF line was decent enough yesterday when the ball went it. However I can't understand why Ronan O'Neill didn't get any game time, never mind start. Rumours of a fall out with Harte doing the rounds last week appear likely.
We have only a handful of real top notch players, Coney, Cavanagh (S), Morgan, Mattie Donnelly, McCurry on that XV yesterday so it can be no real surprise that we are where we are.
Who was the baldy boy on the line for Down yesterday?Him and Horse Devlin covered more ground than most of the players.
old guard sent on to retrieve the game all the hype about conveyor belt of young talent a myth still extra game will help to iron out problems
Quote from: johnneycool on May 19, 2014, 09:36:39 AM
Did someone from Down kick Martin McHugh's dog or what?
He hadn't a good word to say about them the whole game, granted he had a field day in the first half as Down were dire, but once the two Johnstons and Benny Coulter (pronounced cool-ter on RTE for some reason) were introduced and Kiernan pushed into midfield, Tyrone were all over the shop. The free given to the Tyrone fullback when Madine was standing over him and not touching him was laughable and as pointed out by sidey, but Martins response was something about it hard for the ref to see!!
Big Whelahan and McStay called it right on the cards front, Maginn should have got a black card for the futile rugby tackle, but Morgan should have gotten a red for his bringing down of Johnston.
That poor dog has been kicked by half the country at this stage.
I have a feeling Mickey Harte will end up getting the Boylan treatment and that this will presage a long return to mediocrity for the county , as is the ongoing Meath experience. They'll ask for his head and it'll be delivered on a plate and the rot will go on.
How Sean Cavanagh got the last free still hasn't been shown on RTE
Amazing, considering Tyrone players were falling to the ground all game 'engineering' frees
Quote from: Under Lights on May 19, 2014, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
Heavens forbid that people be interested in both gaelic and soccer. If both games are on TV I would say a lot of people could be tempted to have the chance to watch both. By attending the Down Tyrone game you don't have that chance.
Of course some people will be interested in both but I don't understand why you feel the GAA should be fixing it's games with other sporting occasions in mind, particularly between two teams with tiny support bases in this country.
Settle down soccer drones...replay at 12pm, not 7pm.
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/ (http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/)
Quote from: Zulu on May 19, 2014, 11:07:55 AM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 19, 2014, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: rodney trotter on May 18, 2014, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 10:54:00 PM
Quote from: Under Lights on May 18, 2014, 09:27:59 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 18, 2014, 09:24:12 PM
So?
Crowd could be affected.
For a soccer game between two Spanish sides?
2011 Champions league final was on the same time as Armagh and Down in Ulster first round, crowd was affected that day. Man Utd was one of the teams so wasn't all Spanish , but would imagine a lot would have an interest in the Cl final either way ..
Heavens forbid that people be interested in both gaelic and soccer. If both games are on TV I would say a lot of people could be tempted to have the chance to watch both. By attending the Down Tyrone game you don't have that chance.
Of course some people will be interested in both but I don't understand why you feel the GAA should be fixing it's games with other sporting occasions in mind, particularly between two teams with tiny support bases in this country.
Athletico are massive on the peninsula :)
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 19, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
Settle down soccer drones...replay at 12pm, not 7pm.
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/ (http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/)
That can't be right, can it?
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 19, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
Settle down soccer drones...replay at 12pm, not 7pm.
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/ (http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/)
I'd guess that their computer system needed a time to allow the fixture to be generated. There's way an Ulster championship match would start at noon on a Saturday surely?
Quote from: thewobbler on May 19, 2014, 11:23:38 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on May 19, 2014, 11:14:21 AM
Settle down soccer drones...replay at 12pm, not 7pm.
http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/ (http://www.gaa.ie/fixtures-and-results/national-fixtures/gaa-football-all-ireland-senior-championship/ulster/)
I'd guess that their computer system needed a time to allow the fixture to be generated. There's way an Ulster championship match would start at noon on a Saturday surely?
I'd say that's probably right enough but sure if it keeps a few lads quiet about the ol' ground ball for a while, can't we just pretend it's at 12?
Don't have much time for Cavanagh's antics but the decision to award the equalising free at the end was the correct one.
Quote from: neilthemac on May 19, 2014, 11:07:40 AM
How Sean Cavanagh got the last free still hasn't been shown on RTE
Amazing, considering Tyrone players were falling to the ground all game 'engineering' frees
It was shown a couple of times. And it was a stone wall free. Care to list the Tyrone Dives that were going on all game? The only clear one that I saw was McBride (How the ref gave it I don't know!!)
The worst dive in my opinion was Conor Garvey (nearly 100% is was him) after he dunted into Kyle Coney in the second half. Would have added at least 5 pages to this thread if it was Sean. Sean never does himself any favours with his propensity to hit the dirt, however, he was being fouled for at least 4/5 seconds before he finally went down for that last free, it was right in front of me.
You'd have to laugh at some of the posters on here. Had it been the other way about you would have heard about how cynical Tyrone were with the "of the ball" dragging and holding and that it served them right to conceed the free.
McGinn should not have got a black card because it should not even have been a penalty.
Donnelly had already taken 7 steps when McGinn rugby tackled him. Coldrick let players run 7-8 steps all day. If we have a rule then it should be used. Ok, maybe a fifth step if the player is under pressure and seriously trying to get rid of the ball is a fair relaxation. But by the time you are at 7 you have definitely fouled the ball.
Having said that once Coldrick had deemed that he didn't have to implement one of the long established rules in the rulebook, sure why should he then bother to comply with the rule on advantage play (does he actually know how long 5 seconds is???), nor why bother with black cards "Deliberately pull down an opponent"
Look the above comments are meant more in whimsy than to be taken seriously. The real point I am making is that there is little merit in commenting on Coldrick's refereeing of an individual incident when his refereeing in general was so poorly lacking technically all day. I accept referees make mistakes because they can't see everything but they should at least be technically correct. And he is meant to be the best in the country!!!
Not sure if I'm correct but I thought Benny footblocked that last ball into the sideline so it should have been a free in the first place instead of a line ball.
I genuinely want to see what the last free was given for?
Wasn't on the Sunday game last night, nor during the game yesterday.
The last free was given for pushing/pulling of Cavanagh. As for the Tyrone penalty, of course a player takes more steps when he is being fouled/pulled back. The referee gives the player in this instance a bit of leeway, common sense. Haven't heard anyone say that Donnelly shouldn't have won the penalty.
Quote from: highorlow on May 19, 2014, 12:03:43 PM
Not sure if I'm correct but I thought Benny footblocked that last ball into the sideline so it should have been a free in the first place instead of a line ball.
Thought same, it would have been a lot tougher than the one they were left with though
33 pages.
Really?
Quote from: Norf Tyrone on May 19, 2014, 09:43:09 AM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 19, 2014, 09:34:29 AM
Terrible team selection yesterday and two of the biggest calls (McGinley and McKenna) really back fired. McGinley looked lost when under pressure up front and missed a lot of easy chances, but he is a defender and not a forward. I thought that during the league Tyrone had gone away from this endless carrying the ball game, and instead were focused on playing quick foot passes into the forwards. Yesterday ti seemed like Tyrone had reverted back to their old ways, maybe that was in part due to the lack of space seen up front with the number of Down bodies back, I dunno. The one thing that does worry me is how easily the Tyrone defence is opened up when a ball is fed in to the opposition full forward line who recycles it to a player who is running through. One of the goals yesterday came from this and Johnston also nearly had one through the same tactic. Surely the prevention of this should have been really worked on in training as it was happening very often in the Mayo, Kerry and Dublin games in the league. As someone said, maybe we have too many offensive orientated players in defence. I think people are being hard on McBride too, you have to consider that this was his first Ulster Championship start for Tyrone yet I think he performed well, with his man scoring maybe a point.
Agree with most of this. The same weaknesses that Tyrone had during the NFL were witnessed yesterday too, and it's worrying that there appears to be neither (A) a plan to change things or (B) the personnel to change things and/ or implement a plan.
The FF line was decent enough yesterday when the ball went it. However I can't understand why Ronan O'Neill didn't get any game time, never mind start. Rumours of a fall out with Harte doing the rounds last week appear likely.
We have only a handful of real top notch players, Coney, Cavanagh (S), Morgan, Mattie Donnelly, McCurry on that XV yesterday so it can be no real surprise that we are where we are.
Ronan O'Neill should have wound his neck in and apologised. We all know MH is a man of principal.
Quote from: Aristo 60 on May 19, 2014, 12:11:11 PM
33 pages.
Really?
The last ten or so mostly made up of lads repeating what they heard Joe Brolly saying about diving.
zzzzz
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 19, 2014, 12:07:55 PM
The last free was given for pushing/pulling of Cavanagh. As for the Tyrone penalty, of course a player takes more steps when he is being fouled/pulled back. The referee gives the player in this instance a bit of leeway, common sense. Haven't heard anyone say that Donnelly shouldn't have won the penalty.
Martin McHugh said it yesterday almost as soon as the penalty had been awarded.
Anyway Donnelly had already taken 7 steps before he was fouled so how does that common sense rule of yours work
On that very point - where in the rulebook is that common sense rule you talk about? Rules say you don't take over 4 steps. McVeigh and McGinn had prevented Donnelly from shooting fairly and his time was up. But Coldrick allowed more steps so he could run round them. That is a hugely unfair advantage to the attacker and totally makes a mockery of the good blocking up to that point.
Look you seem to have missed the point (even though I literally spelled it out). The point is that he was poor over the whole game and that is more important than a single incident. Many failures to implement rules that, if taken literally, would totally change what happened next. Too much focus on one incident we should be talking about the many incidents where Coldrick failed miserably to follow the technical rules. If all our refs agreed at least to follow the
ALL rules then at least we would have the consistency Micky Harte was asking for.
Quote from: neilthemac on May 19, 2014, 11:07:40 AM
How Sean Cavanagh got the last free still hasn't been shown on RTE
Amazing, considering Tyrone players were falling to the ground all game 'engineering' frees
You'd think Tyrone invented the dive - Wee James was teaching everyone how its done properly many years ago! This is much worse than anything seen in Omagh yesterday. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/7438268.stm
Double header with the Tyrone V Monaghan minors this Saturday night.
I thought as a neutral it was an interesting game. The first half was dire, sloppy passing, poor shooting, simple turnovers, but the second was a lot better. I'm not sure how the Down #10 didn't get black carded for the penalty when Coldrick decided not to play advantage. That same lad scored the third goal I think. Mind you I think he is the one who got a black card near the end for a foul on Cavanagh.
Cavanagh is an awful messer with the diving, but he ships a lot of abuse. I think he probably ships even more now because he's starting to slow down a bit, relative to all these 22 and 23 year olds. Breakdancing on the floor after a belt in the ribs was a bit much. If he was that hurt I doubt he'd be able to move around so much, but he was fouled for the last free alright. Crazy defending by Down in that instance.
I thought the black card was correct for Morgan. Coldrick would have seen that as a deliberate trip, I'm sure, and so a black card. Some people might see it as a kick rather than a trip, but I'd have said that was harsh.
I couldn't believe how open Tyrone were at the back, and it was nothing to do with being afraid to tackle or black cards. Their positioning relative to their direct opponents was cat, and Peter Harte, who is *not* a wing back in my opinion, was exposed badly a couple of times. Very naive stuff, and surprising because of it.
To the Tyrone lads on here about Mickey Harte. I agree 100%, he's a joke. Send him down to Offaly please.
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 19, 2014, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 19, 2014, 12:07:55 PM
The last free was given for pushing/pulling of Cavanagh. As for the Tyrone penalty, of course a player takes more steps when he is being fouled/pulled back. The referee gives the player in this instance a bit of leeway, common sense. Haven't heard anyone say that Donnelly shouldn't have won the penalty.
Martin McHugh said it yesterday almost as soon as the penalty had been awarded.
Anyway Donnelly had already taken 7 steps before he was fouled so how does that common sense rule of yours work
On that very point - where in the rulebook is that common sense rule you talk about? Rules say you don't take over 4 steps. McVeigh and McGinn had prevented Donnelly from shooting fairly and his time was up. But Coldrick allowed more steps so he could run round them. That is a hugely unfair advantage to the attacker and totally makes a mockery of the good blocking up to that point.
Look you seem to have missed the point (even though I literally spelled it out). The point is that he was poor over the whole game and that is more important than a single incident. Many failures to implement rules that, if taken literally, would totally change what happened next. Too much focus on one incident we should be talking about the many incidents where Coldrick failed miserably to follow the technical rules. If all our refs agreed at least to follow the ALL rules then at least we would have the consistency Micky Harte was asking for.
Are you serious? So because McHugh says something then it must be true. It was as clear a penalty as there ever has been, see the following link and you will see he was bearhugged to the ground long before he got to his steps allocation. A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkMGN0EBZuM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkMGN0EBZuM)
s for common sense, every ref in the country applies it, although not all the time. When a player is being dragged back and goes over his 4 steps the referee would always have let them get away with a few more - that's common sense.
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 19, 2014, 11:58:49 AM
McGinn should not have got a black card because it should not even have been a penalty.
Donnelly had already taken 7 steps when McGinn rugby tackled him. Coldrick let players run 7-8 steps all day. If we have a rule then it should be used. Ok, maybe a fifth step if the player is under pressure and seriously trying to get rid of the ball is a fair relaxation. But by the time you are at 7 you have definitely fouled the ball.
Having said that once Coldrick had deemed that he didn't have to implement one of the long established rules in the rulebook, sure why should he then bother to comply with the rule on advantage play (does he actually know how long 5 seconds is???), nor why bother with black cards "Deliberately pull down an opponent"
Look the above comments are meant more in whimsy than to be taken seriously. The real point I am making is that there is little merit in commenting on Coldrick's refereeing of an individual incident when his refereeing in general was so poorly lacking technically all day. I accept referees make mistakes because they can't see everything but they should at least be technically correct. And he is meant to be the best in the country!!!
Do you seriously think Mark Donnelly took 7 steps before he was fouled? You do realise he didn't catch the ball clean? From the moment he had the ball in his hands until he was fouled he took 2 steps - you could maybe argue for 3. That YouTube video someone posted is as clear as day
Quote from: take_yer_points on May 19, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 19, 2014, 11:58:49 AM
McGinn should not have got a black card because it should not even have been a penalty.
Donnelly had already taken 7 steps when McGinn rugby tackled him. Coldrick let players run 7-8 steps all day. If we have a rule then it should be used. Ok, maybe a fifth step if the player is under pressure and seriously trying to get rid of the ball is a fair relaxation. But by the time you are at 7 you have definitely fouled the ball.
Having said that once Coldrick had deemed that he didn't have to implement one of the long established rules in the rulebook, sure why should he then bother to comply with the rule on advantage play (does he actually know how long 5 seconds is???), nor why bother with black cards "Deliberately pull down an opponent"
Look the above comments are meant more in whimsy than to be taken seriously. The real point I am making is that there is little merit in commenting on Coldrick's refereeing of an individual incident when his refereeing in general was so poorly lacking technically all day. I accept referees make mistakes because they can't see everything but they should at least be technically correct. And he is meant to be the best in the country!!!
Do you seriously think Mark Donnelly took 7 steps before he was fouled? You do realise he didn't catch the ball clean? From the moment he had the ball in his hands until he was fouled he took 2 steps - you could maybe argue for 3. That YouTube video someone posted is as clear as day
There wasn't any over carrying for that incident but Pauld123 is right that it was let go multiple times during the game. Really irriates me. You used to get 5 steps at a push, now you get 7 most times.
Nothing would suprise me with the Poison Dwarf, hes been at it a few years now.
No question of over carrying at all. It tells you more about any individual who subscribes to that idea in the first place, as noted above , clear as day on the youtube clip.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 19, 2014, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on May 19, 2014, 01:17:13 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 19, 2014, 11:58:49 AM
McGinn should not have got a black card because it should not even have been a penalty.
Donnelly had already taken 7 steps when McGinn rugby tackled him. Coldrick let players run 7-8 steps all day. If we have a rule then it should be used. Ok, maybe a fifth step if the player is under pressure and seriously trying to get rid of the ball is a fair relaxation. But by the time you are at 7 you have definitely fouled the ball.
Having said that once Coldrick had deemed that he didn't have to implement one of the long established rules in the rulebook, sure why should he then bother to comply with the rule on advantage play (does he actually know how long 5 seconds is???), nor why bother with black cards "Deliberately pull down an opponent"
Look the above comments are meant more in whimsy than to be taken seriously. The real point I am making is that there is little merit in commenting on Coldrick's refereeing of an individual incident when his refereeing in general was so poorly lacking technically all day. I accept referees make mistakes because they can't see everything but they should at least be technically correct. And he is meant to be the best in the country!!!
Do you seriously think Mark Donnelly took 7 steps before he was fouled? You do realise he didn't catch the ball clean? From the moment he had the ball in his hands until he was fouled he took 2 steps - you could maybe argue for 3. That YouTube video someone posted is as clear as day
There wasn't any over carrying for that incident but Pauld123 is right that it was let go multiple times during the game. Really irriates me. You used to get 5 steps at a push, now you get 7 most times.
I agree players are allowed to take too many steps - it's yet another rule not applied by referees and makes tackling very difficult.
However, to say that Mark Donnelly took 7 steps in that incident before being fouled is surreal. A few seconds beforehand Kyle Coney seemed to take a lot of steps in the incident that led to the sideline kick (which led to the goal) - I think a quick count was around 10 or so. That would have been a good example to use
At what point in time does it become apparent to the Tyrone faithful that Mickey Harte has now become and has been for sometime now the Achilles heal of Tyrone's championship aspirations ? It did not surprise me yesterday that Tyrone where incapable of beating a second rate Down team in their own back yard. Harte's team selection was bewildering. The full backline contained a lad who had suffered a potentially career ending embarrassment in Kerry earlier in the season. Anyone watching that game could see that young Tierney should have been taken off early in he first half as he was unable to handle the pace of his opponent. Mickey Harte left him on him for the entire game resulting in humiliation for himself and Tyrone. What did Tierney learn from this ? Barry did not get a sniff of a place for the rest of the league but come championship he is back in. McBride's selection at fullback was also very questionable he has little or no experience playing at county level at no 3. Clarke has played at 3 with varying degrees of success but is better suited at fullback than at mfield. Matty Donnelly is a half forward not a no 6 and his wiliness to go forward leaves massive holes in the Tyrone Defence. Peter Harte has had ample time to prove he is not a wing back again a player more suited to wing forward. Clarke is not a mid fielder. Playing McGinley at 12 made no sense what so ever and when he got into a number of easy scoring positions he demonstrated the folly of his selection in the forward position. Sean Cavanagh is not and never has been a creative player he is a finisher not a provider and should have been deployed on the square. Mckenna selection at 14 was also a poor decision by Mickey he is a more creative outfield player that Cavanagh and is also very good in the air better suited to the half forward line. Mickey Harte has been a great servant to Tyrone for the last 20 years and has helped bring massive success to the County but there does come a time when managers and players become stale. Harte achieved staleness some years ago and the erratic nature of his team selections is becoming a hindrance to Tyrone's future. I do not think Mickey is the type of man to walk away but for the good of football in Tyrone I hope the County board has the strength of character not to renew his contract at the end of his term.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 19, 2014, 02:12:25 PM
At what point in time does it become apparent to the Tyrone faithful that Mickey Harte has now become and has been for sometime now the Achilles heal of Tyrone's championship aspirations ? It did not surprise me yesterday that Tyrone where incapable of beating a second rate Down team in their own back yard. Harte's team selection was bewildering. The full backline contained a lad who had suffered a potentially career ending embarrassment in Kerry earlier in the season. Anyone watching that game could see that young Tierney should have been taken off early in he first half as he was unable to handle the pace of his opponent. Mickey Harte left him on him for the entire game resulting in humiliation for himself and Tyrone. What did Tierney learn from this ? Barry did not get a sniff of a place for the rest of the league but come championship he is back in. McBride's selection at fullback was also very questionable he has little or no experience playing at county level at no 3. Clarke has played at 3 with varying degrees of success but is better suited at fullback than at mfield. Matty Donnelly is a half forward not a no 6 and his wiliness to go forward leaves massive holes in the Tyrone Defence. Peter Harte has had ample time to prove he is not a wing back again a player more suited to wing forward. Clarke is not a mid fielder. Playing McGinley at 12 made no sense what so ever and when he got into a number of easy scoring positions he demonstrated the folly of his selection in the forward position. Sean Cavanagh is not and never has been a creative player he is a finisher not a provider and should have been deployed on the square. Mckenna selection at 14 was also a poor decision by Mickey he is a more creative outfield player that Cavanagh and is also very good in the air better suited to the half forward line. Mickey Harte has been a great servant to Tyrone for the last 20 years and has helped bring massive success to the County but there does come a time when managers and players become stale. Harte achieved staleness some years ago and the erratic nature of his team selections is becoming a hindrance to Tyrone's future. I do not think Mickey is the type of man to walk away but for the good of football in Tyrone I hope the County board has the strength of character not to renew his contract at the end of his term.
I actually would find it hard to disagree with a lot of that and was thinking alot of the same thoughts since yesterday.
Agree with skilful bill there.
I was just thinking though what is Tyrone's best 15 now? I was thinking he could change it again totally on sat and prob go for something like this (I've probably forgot about someone cause I was thinking quickly:
Morgan, McCrory, Clarke, Gormley, PJ Lavery, Mattie D, R McKenna, C Cavanagh, Justy Mc, Harte, S Cavanagh, Mark D, R O'Nell, Coney, McCurry
I was also thinking that the teams may be being picked by science and not running your eye over proceedings in training which if it is the case makes my heart sink!
Quote from: WT4E on May 19, 2014, 02:17:59 PM
Agree with skilful bill there.
I was just thinking though what is Tyrone's best 15 now? I was thinking he could change it again totally on sat and prob go for something like this (I've probably forgot about someone cause I was thinking quickly:
Morgan, McCrory, Clarke, Gormley, PJ Lavery, Mattie D, R McKenna, C Cavanagh, Justy Mc, Kane, Harte, Mark D, R O'Nell, Coney, McCurry
I was also thinking that the teams may be being picked by science and not running your eye over proceedings in training which if it is the case makes my heart sink!
maybe the man that 'earnt' you the replay?
Quote from: J OGorman on May 19, 2014, 02:22:38 PM
Quote from: WT4E on May 19, 2014, 02:17:59 PM
Agree with skilful bill there.
I was just thinking though what is Tyrone's best 15 now? I was thinking he could change it again totally on sat and prob go for something like this (I've probably forgot about someone cause I was thinking quickly:
Morgan, McCrory, Clarke, Gormley, PJ Lavery, Mattie D, R McKenna, C Cavanagh, Justy Mc, Harte, S Cavanagh, Mark D, R O'Nell, Coney, McCurry
I was also thinking that the teams may be being picked by science and not running your eye over proceedings in training which if it is the case makes my heart sink!
maybe the man that 'earnt' you the replay?
DOH!!! :-[ :-[ :-[ Revised it!LOL
Revised it
I would go for this:
Morgan, McCrory, Clarke, PJ Quinn, Harte, Gormley, PJ Lavery, Mattie Donnelly, S Cavanagh, McGuigan, R O'Neill, Mark Donnelly/Colm Cavanagh, McCurry, Coney, McAliskey.........................................................
Morgan
Aidan Mc Clarke Pj/Tierney
Gormley Matty Justin
Sean Colm
Penrose Mark D P Harte
RoN
McCurry Coney
Morgan
Mccrory. Clarke. Pj Quinn
McGinely. Gormley. Justy mcmahon
C.Cav Matty Donnelly
Coney. Harte. Mckenna
McCurry. S. Cav. R.Oneill
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 19, 2014, 03:00:34 PM
Morgan
Mccrory. Clarke. Pj Quinn
McGinely. Gormley. Justy mcmahon
C.Cav Matty Donnelly
Coney. Harte. Mckenna
McCurry. S. Cav. R.Oneill
Here's hoping ;-)
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 19, 2014, 02:48:44 PM
Morgan
Aidan Mc Clarke Pj/Tierney
Gormley Matty Justin
Sean Colm
Penrose Mark D P Harte
RoN
McCurry Coney
I reckon Penrose day is done! As Brolly was saying on Sunday in the paper he would be another example of Mickey changing a player. Remember him at youth football - was very dangerous and wracked up some big scores the when he went to the seniors turned into a man who was to run around like a blue ass fly breaking up play!
Morgan, Clarke, Justin, McRory, McGinley, Gormley, Harte, Matty Donnelly, Colm, Mark Donnelly, Sean Cav, Niall McKenna, McCurry, Coney, R O'Neill.
Morgan
McCrory. Harte. Clarke. Matty Donnelly Tierney
McGinley. Gormley. Mckenna. Justy mcmahon Coney. R.Oneill. S. Cav
.
C.Cav
McCurry.
1-5-7-1-0-1
We had our big post mortem in Fiddlers in Carrickmacross and I'm glad Frank McEnaney wasn't around as one of our more senior lads wanted to give him a box for the refs performance and the black card
I won't go into a full match summary or my opinions on a lot of things now as many have already expressed my opinion.
One thing I will say is that a lot of people are moaning and complaining about Sean Cavanagh and how he's a diving cheat who is way overrated etc etc
He scored 5 points yesterday and whilst a lot of yer biased opinions will disagree the man gets rightfully targeted every game he lines out. He is a VERY important player for Tyrone and I would say most managers think if you can stop Sean you can stop a lot of what Tyrone do.
Therefore he gets an amazing amount of pulls, drags (bites over the years) and often he runs at defences at pace. When yer a big lad and yer running at pace naturally enough if someone knocks you to one side with a challenge fair or otherwise you tend to fall down.
As someone said on here maybe it's cos he is a big chap and looks well built that many take exception how easy he goes to ground. It's a bit like Canavan in his day who put up with a HUGE amount of pulling and dragging as people trying to knock him off the ball and he too was adjudged by many to be a "DIVER".
IMHO I can see why he frustrates a lot of the opposition fans as they see him as a big player for Tyrone and that naturally enough they want him well marshalled and it put up to him. The fact that he falls over and wins a free really rubs people up the wrong way. I think there are definitely times when he falls over when fouled where other players might try to stay on their feet.
"Drawing a foul" has always been a tactic of many good forwards in the game and so if a defender is careless enough to make a rash tackle then should we punish the player for going down?
Many will say YES as it's cheating. He could have stayed up even though there was a "wee" push
The reaction on here and among others to the rabbit punch he got I think sums it up perfectly.
If Conor Gormley had of done that to Coulter there would have been uproar and possible a red card. If the excellent Coldrick thought there was a punch and so gave him a yellow card then why didn't he give him a red. What was the yellow card for?
It should have either been no card or else red. We've often seen this crap were a ref hasn't the balls to send a man off. Was this the only yellow card of the day? Unreal
What did Frank do to deserve a box?
Monaghan balax.
Tyrone need to look at a new mid field pair for the replay.
Maybe Peter Waterfield & Tom Daly?
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2014, 04:20:52 PM
Monaghan balax.
Monaghan have the hunger. Kavanagh would have called it a great hunger. Tyrone got fat on all those videos of the glory days in Porky Crokey. Now they are turning on Mickey Messiah. It's very biblical.
D'oh.
Of course I meant Frank Mitchell.
How was SideBums commentary yesterday.
I have it recorded so hope to watch it tonight.
David Moyes could be the man to sort out our defence
Too many attacking half backs is the problem and we were forced to run with it again rather than long kicks.
RON for keeper next Sat night or maybe McNeice
6.30pm now according to the main gaa site....
I haven't seen much of Tyrone this year but i thought they looked fairly slow in their build up yesterday, or as the RTE commentators called it - 'patient'. Has this been the way they've been playing all year or was it due to Down's numbers in defence? Tyrone used to play the game at breakneck speed but that doesn't seem to be the case any more, well not based on yesterday's performance anyway.
Yes Armamike this is my pet hate but in the league it was much more direct. Lots of long kicking but it seems like they change it once they see their attacking lines blocked off by sweepers. I think Mickeys team selection also was in response to how he expected Down to play.
I really hope Harte and RoN sort it out though I'd love to know what is was all about. Apparently nobody inside can talk to Mickey at all any more.
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:28:01 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on May 18, 2014, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 18, 2014, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
As bad as cavanagh was , laverty was every bit as bad if not worse.
Like I said months ago, the black card encourages players to go to ground.but yet the most obvious black card offence of the day, the tyrone penalty, and the ref gives nothing.
I was thinking that as well. Firstly he should have played advantage but went he did blow up for the penalty I was sure that the Down player would have gotten the black card. Is that not the same thing that Brolly nearly had a heart attack for last year over.
The tackle on Donnelly was a blatant black card
Muppet. .just checked the rule book. No pink card as yet. Could be a runner. Maybe make the offending diver wear a tutu for the remainder of their teams run in the championship.
Brilliant idea.
So it would go like this...
Player dives....
Pink card shown...
Player goes off for 10 minutes....
No replacement.....
After 10 minutes player returns wearing a tutu for the remainder of the game....
Now when is Congress?
Quote from: muppet on May 19, 2014, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:28:01 PM
Quote from: tyronefan on May 18, 2014, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on May 18, 2014, 07:14:54 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 18, 2014, 07:06:51 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on May 18, 2014, 06:52:46 PM
Quote from: our_fella on May 18, 2014, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 18, 2014, 06:22:03 PM
Cavanagh got a belt in the first half and went don't like he was having some sort of seizure only to jump up and run off without a bother 30 s later. His reputation as a great player in danger of being replaced by his reputation of being a cheat.
In fairness, he got a serious fist in the ribs from that wee rat laverty.
were you cheering on tyrone today? you are the f**king rat.
Who says i was cheering on anybody? Hope somebody absolutely mills him in replay.. No more diving for him.
Take your oil our fella, takes a certain kinda person to call some one a rat behind a fake name
Super 2nd half the day after a lack lustre first. Bit of drama, some great scores in the lashing rain and the usual few dives from the Tyrone men...The championship is back!
Benny the man of the match. Was sublime when he came on in the 2nd half. Was a calming influence and started so many of the attacks inc a super score out on the left.
PS..The diving lark has to be cut from the game immediately.
As bad as cavanagh was , laverty was every bit as bad if not worse.
Like I said months ago, the black card encourages players to go to ground.but yet the most obvious black card offence of the day, the tyrone penalty, and the ref gives nothing.
I was thinking that as well. Firstly he should have played advantage but went he did blow up for the penalty I was sure that the Down player would have gotten the black card. Is that not the same thing that Brolly nearly had a heart attack for last year over.
The tackle on Donnelly was a blatant black card
Muppet. .just checked the rule book. No pink card as yet. Could be a runner. Maybe make the offending diver wear a tutu for the remainder of their teams run in the championship.
Brilliant idea.
So it would go like this...
Player dives....
Pink card shown...
Player goes off for 10 minutes....
No replacement.....
After 10 minutes player returns wearing a tutu for the remainder of the game....
Now when is Congress?
Just after the other fella sees the tutu
Tutu must be Irish made.
This is a massive game for Tyrone on Saturday night in Newry. Not only do they need to win but they need a performance to build confidence and get the county behind them. I really don't think a back door run will do this team any good this year and a lot of the players need to start proving their worth in big championship games. The likes of Harte, Clarke, Coney and McCurry have been about long enough now and need to start showing they can dominate in big games. Even the 2 Donnellys for me have played their best football in the league in recent years without having real top quality games in the championship. Its time to step up and aim for an ulster title firstly.
Unlike some I do believe there is plenty of room for improvement. Tyrone have started slowly in a lot of championships in Harte's time but improved throughout it. I'd like to think there will be a reaction to Sunday's flat performance and a real high intensity performance this weekend. If they need any motivation they only need to watch Brolly or watch the anti Tyrone biased crap being put out on various forums.
I've put out the kind of team below I'd like to see. To me we need to get defenders in defence and shore it up and get a half forward line that will fight for breaking ball. We need to forget this tactic of singling out a man in the middle for kickouts and leaving them isolated. 90% of the time we're not catching them so need to crowd the middle and get in for the breaks. It was obvious on the Sunday game peace last night that our half backs and half forwards are heading for the wings instead of getting in and fighting for the ball.
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
I've picked Coney before McCurry because I'm not sure how McCurry would cope in a 2 man full forward line and would be a good impact sub. Would need to make sure any ball going into Coney was chest high or above as he can't get down for low ball at all.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
This is a massive game for Tyrone on Saturday night in Newry. Not only do they need to win but they need a performance to build confidence and get the county behind them. I really don't think a back door run will do this team any good this year and a lot of the players need to start proving their worth in big championship games. The likes of Harte, Clarke, Coney and McCurry have been about long enough now and need to start showing they can dominate in big games. Even the 2 Donnellys for me have played their best football in the league in recent years without having real top quality games in the championship. Its time to step up and aim for an ulster title firstly.
Unlike some I do believe there is plenty of room for improvement. Tyrone have started slowly in a lot of championships in Harte's time but improved throughout it. I'd like to think there will be a reaction to Sunday's flat performance and a real high intensity performance this weekend. If they need any motivation they only need to watch Brolly or watch the anti Tyrone biased crap being put out on various forums.
I've put out the kind of team below I'd like to see. To me we need to get defenders in defence and shore it up and get a half forward line that will fight for breaking ball. We need to forget this tactic of singling out a man in the middle for kickouts and leaving them isolated. 90% of the time we're not catching them so need to crowd the middle and get in for the breaks. It was obvious on the Sunday game peace last night that our half backs and half forwards are heading for the wings instead of getting in and fighting for the ball.
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
I've picked Coney before McCurry because I'm not sure how McCurry would cope in a 2 man full forward line and would be a good impact sub. Would need to make sure any ball going into Coney was chest high or above as he can't get down for low ball at all.
I mentioned something on the Down page about they tyrone players feeling the pressure but you explained it much better than me. Some of the younger lads especially have had a good few opportunities without convincing at the highest level. I think the tyrone lads will be under a lot more pressure than the Down lads, we will have a passionate crowd behind us, if down get a good start will the likes of coney, mccurry, mcniece etc be able to turn it around.
We thank Tyrone for the lesson in the finer arts of football. As you have seen we are quick learners, and look forward to welcolming you all to the Marshes to continue our education. Who knows ,it could be a case of the pupils teaching the Masters.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
This is a massive game for Tyrone on Saturday night in Newry. Not only do they need to win but they need a performance to build confidence and get the county behind them. I really don't think a back door run will do this team any good this year and a lot of the players need to start proving their worth in big championship games. The likes of Harte, Clarke, Coney and McCurry have been about long enough now and need to start showing they can dominate in big games. Even the 2 Donnellys for me have played their best football in the league in recent years without having real top quality games in the championship. Its time to step up and aim for an ulster title firstly.
Unlike some I do believe there is plenty of room for improvement. Tyrone have started slowly in a lot of championships in Harte's time but improved throughout it. I'd like to think there will be a reaction to Sunday's flat performance and a real high intensity performance this weekend. If they need any motivation they only need to watch Brolly or watch the anti Tyrone biased crap being put out on various forums.
I've put out the kind of team below I'd like to see. To me we need to get defenders in defence and shore it up and get a half forward line that will fight for breaking ball. We need to forget this tactic of singling out a man in the middle for kickouts and leaving them isolated. 90% of the time we're not catching them so need to crowd the middle and get in for the breaks. It was obvious on the Sunday game peace last night that our half backs and half forwards are heading for the wings instead of getting in and fighting for the ball.
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
I've picked Coney before McCurry because I'm not sure how McCurry would cope in a 2 man full forward line and would be a good impact sub. Would need to make sure any ball going into Coney was chest high or above as he can't get down for low ball at all.
Quote from: muppet on May 19, 2014, 07:47:51 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
Tutu must be Irish made.
Tútú?
Quote from: muppet on May 19, 2014, 07:47:51 PM
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
Tutu must be Irish made.
Tútú?
maithu
Quote from: ONeill on May 19, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
Tutu must be Irish made.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
This is a massive game for Tyrone on Saturday night in Newry. Not only do they need to win but they need a performance to build confidence and get the county behind them. I really don't think a back door run will do this team any good this year and a lot of the players need to start proving their worth in big championship games. The likes of Harte, Clarke, Coney and McCurry have been about long enough now and need to start showing they can dominate in big games. Even the 2 Donnellys for me have played their best football in the league in recent years without having real top quality games in the championship. Its time to step up and aim for an ulster title firstly.
Unlike some I do believe there is plenty of room for improvement. Tyrone have started slowly in a lot of championships in Harte's time but improved throughout it. I'd like to think there will be a reaction to Sunday's flat performance and a real high intensity performance this weekend. If they need any motivation they only need to watch Brolly or watch the anti Tyrone biased crap being put out on various forums.
I've put out the kind of team below I'd like to see. To me we need to get defenders in defence and shore it up and get a half forward line that will fight for breaking ball. We need to forget this tactic of singling out a man in the middle for kickouts and leaving them isolated. 90% of the time we're not catching them so need to crowd the middle and get in for the breaks. It was obvious on the Sunday game peace last night that our half backs and half forwards are heading for the wings instead of getting in and fighting for the ball.
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
I've picked Coney before McCurry because I'm not sure how McCurry would cope in a 2 man full forward line and would be a good impact sub. Would need to make sure any ball going into Coney was chest high or above as he can't get down for low ball at all.
That's a great post. The most disappointing thing for me was the sterile nature of the whole thing. Lads we know to have great flair didn't seem to be enjoying it or expressing themselves. That can always happen on the big day. But I also feel we played at least 3 men in positions they were uncomfortable in.
Agree with a lot of what you say Redhand Santa but there is no way you could leave McCurry off the starting 15.
I think a lot of ye forget how stubborn Mickey is and I'll be shocked if we see that many changes from yesterday's team. I'll be very shocked if RON plays any part but maybe SON might start on Sat if he's fit enough. How would Gormley do at MF for a half?
I was there in 08 and there's a very similar feeling about Mickey going into this game but maybe just with more people thinking it.
Is the game being televised?
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 19, 2014, 10:13:54 PM
I think a lot of ye forget how stubborn Mickey is and I'll be shocked if we see that many changes from yesterday's team. I'll be very shocked if RON plays any part but maybe SON might start on Sat if he's fit enough. How would Gormley do at MF for a half?
I was there in 08 and there's a very similar feeling about Mickey going into this game but maybe just with more people thinking it.
Big differance in 08 is that Mickey had a panel full of AI winners with their pride hurt. I agree Mickey's stubborness may see him starting near enough the same team again. This is the very reason he needs to go at the end of the season.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
I think nearly everyone would be pleased with that side - but it's not going to happen under Mickey. He has it in his head that Harte and Donnelly are best positioned behind midfield, even though it's crucifying us. Is Clarke mobile enough for wing half?
Harte has never been afraid to change things after poor performances. Throughout his managerial call he's made bit changes from game to game. I've no doubt he'll react to a below par performance with a few switches.
Pity he didn't do it before the game, as it was plain as the nose on your face with the team he selected. The man is stale. Leaving Mc Bride on Johnston and the wee Kilcoo man on Clarke in the FB line, two medium slow men on fast quick turners! like seriously, a decent club manager would have seen and fixed that. I give up.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2014, 07:47:27 PM
Morgan
McRory
Justy (hopefully fit enough but options limited)
Tierney (or PJ if fit enough)
Clarke (would love to see him throw his weight about a bit more)
Gormley
McNabb
Cavanagh
Cavanagh
Harte
Mattie D (playing a deeper role helping defence and running at teams from there)
Penrose
Coney
S O'Neill
R O'Neill (coming out to half forward line to ping balls in to O'Neill and Coney)
McCurry was our top-scorer the last day (and possibly all-year?), leaving him out of the side is akin to leaving Sean, Mattie or Morgan out. Those lads are now the spine of this team.
Clarke was very, very poor the last day. Anonymous in fact. He can't warrant starting again unless he plays anywhere other than full-back, his natural position. He hasn't played well there recently but so in essence he should be dropped. He's not mobile enough for MF or half-back at IC level.
For all this talk of us needing to win breaking ball at MF I can never think of a time when it was Penrose's forte. I don't understand this clamour. He's a top quality inside forward for Aghyaran/ Cmore and I always thought his skill was speed and defensive workrate. Dooher was the last quality breaking ball expert we've had.
I see Cormac Reilly is reffing this.
Here's a f**king crazy notion I just had but since I disagree with most lads cures for our problems I better offer something constructive for the rest of ya to tear to shite.
How about playing Mattie at MF, we seem to agree he's too attack minded to play CB or to cover the defence enough. When he's at FF he's too far from the play-making/ engine room to be as effective as he can be and we've a load of options in there anyway. He's strong enough, big enough, composed on the ball and has a decent engine, if we can give Clarke and Joe McMahon a go at MF then why not give Mattie a shot, at least we'd know if it would work and we've pretty much played him every other position on the field in front of the FB line.
Put Block to centre-back to Marshall the defence. Push Petey to Dooher's 10 role which I have always thought was the role he was born to play. McCrory in one corner (he is maybe our worst defender but had a fine game on Sunday). Pick a full-back form Clarke or Justy and let McBride (who had a good first half the last day in Omagh) PJ and Tierney (who had a poor game in both halves) fight it out for the other corner.
A huge part of our collapse the last day was the sending off of Morgan, we brought on a sub keeper who wasn't prepared to be just chucked into the mix, on and kick-outs and organisation in the back went to shit. I'd be less sore on McBride and McRory who had better than usual days in defence prior to that point. Donnelly, Harte and Tierney have less reason to be excused for their defensive lapses.
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2014, 12:35:23 AM
Here's a f**king crazy notion I just had but since I disagree with most lads cures for our problems I better offer something constructive for the rest of ya to tear to shite.
How about playing Mattie at MF, we seem to agree he's too attack minded to play CB or to cover the defence enough. When he's at FF he's too far from the play-making/ engine room to be as effective as he can be and we've a load of options in there anyway. He's strong enough, big enough, composed on the ball and has a decent engine, if we can give Clarke and Joe McMahon a go at MF then why not give Mattie a shot, at least we'd know if it would work and we've pretty much played him every other position on the field in front of the FB line.
Put Block to centre-back to Marshall the defence. Push Petey to Dooher's 10 role which I have always thought was the role he was born to play. McCrory in one corner (he is maybe our worst defender but had a fine game on Sunday). Pick a full-back form Clarke or Justy and let McBride (who had a good first half the last day in Omagh) PJ and Tierney (who had a poor game in both halves) fight it out for the other corner.
A huge part of our collapse the last day was the sending off of Morgan, we brought on a sub keeper who wasn't prepared to be just chucked into the mix, on and kick-outs and organisation in the back went to shit. I'd be less sore on McBride and McRory who had better than usual days in defence prior to that point. Donnelly, Harte and Tierney have less reason to be excused for their defensive lapses.
The TYRONE middle 8 didnt do any favours for the full back line
RUNNERS RUNNERS RUNNERS Tyrone seemed to get completely overrun, they need to improve their workrate and dig in
Thats if they have it which i dont
I think it became very apparent last weekend that MH should have given Mickey O'Neill a couple of games in the league.
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2014, 12:35:23 AM
Here's a f**king crazy notion I just had but since I disagree with most lads cures for our problems I better offer something constructive for the rest of ya to tear to shite.
How about playing Mattie at MF, we seem to agree he's too attack minded to play CB or to cover the defence enough. When he's at FF he's too far from the play-making/ engine room to be as effective as he can be and we've a load of options in there anyway. He's strong enough, big enough, composed on the ball and has a decent engine, if we can give Clarke and Joe McMahon a go at MF then why not give Mattie a shot, at least we'd know if it would work and we've pretty much played him every other position on the field in front of the FB line.
Put Block to centre-back to Marshall the defence. Push Petey to Dooher's 10 role which I have always thought was the role he was born to play. McCrory in one corner (he is maybe our worst defender but had a fine game on Sunday). Pick a full-back form Clarke or Justy and let McBride (who had a good first half the last day in Omagh) PJ and Tierney (who had a poor game in both halves) fight it out for the other corner.
A huge part of our collapse the last day was the sending off of Morgan, we brought on a sub keeper who wasn't prepared to be just chucked into the mix, on and kick-outs and organisation in the back went to shit. I'd be less sore on McBride and McRory who had better than usual days in defence prior to that point. Donnelly, Harte and Tierney have less reason to be excused for their defensive lapses.
I like the idea of Mattie helping around the middle to win breaking ball. But anyone who was at the Kerry game would have doubts about him actually starting midfield. It definitely wasn't all down to him but we totally collapsed in midfield against Kerry in the second half when he moved out there and Sean Cavanagh went to full forward.
I can understand people questioning leaving McCurry out. I just have a feeling he might cause more damage from defence. We're struggling to win our own ball in the full forward line and I just feel if we're going to leave two up he wouldn't be a good enough target. Would love to see him go out and have a big game on Saturday and kick 4 or 5 from play in a big game.
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2014, 12:35:23 AM
Here's a f**king crazy notion I just had but since I disagree with most lads cures for our problems I better offer something constructive for the rest of ya to tear to shite.
How about playing Mattie at MF, we seem to agree he's too attack minded to play CB or to cover the defence enough. When he's at FF he's too far from the play-making/ engine room to be as effective as he can be and we've a load of options in there anyway. He's strong enough, big enough, composed on the ball and has a decent engine, if we can give Clarke and Joe McMahon a go at MF then why not give Mattie a shot, at least we'd know if it would work and we've pretty much played him every other position on the field in front of the FB line.
Put Block to centre-back to Marshall the defence. Push Petey to Dooher's 10 role which I have always thought was the role he was born to play. McCrory in one corner (he is maybe our worst defender but had a fine game on Sunday). Pick a full-back form Clarke or Justy and let
A huge part of our collapse the last day was the sending off of Morgan, we brought on a sub keeper who wasn't prepared to be just chucked into the mix, on and kick-outs and organisation in the back went to shit. I'd be less sore on McBride and McRory who had better McBride (who had a good first half the last day in Omagh) PJ and Tierney (who had a poor game in both halves) fight it out for the other corner.
than usual days in defence prior to that point. Donnelly, Harte and Tierney have less reason to be excused for their defensive lapses.
What about Carlin is he even still on the squad? I would rate him more than most of those listed. Has anyone got a full list of the squad injured or not?
On another note - reading the Irish News yesterday - what did people make of Sean's comments re Cormac McAnallen? It just didn't sit with me that well, I'd be one for keeping things like that to myself if those thoughts were going on and if I was REALLY being cynical he may only have been doing it for a headline.
I remember back in March I said I couldn't believe that there were rumblings against Mickey Harte after his accomplishments in Tyrone. I was assured that this was not aimed at Mickey, it was all grand and people were just making fair analysis of the team. I think the posts since (and immediately before) Sunday prove that I was close to the mark back then. I still can't believe it to be honest, but if ye are intent on running him out of town, I think ye better be careful of what you wish for.
Tyrones build up is far too slow. The ball is moved into full forward line, the target man turns back and plays ball ball backwards. It then sideways for a series of about 5 hand passes. This allows the oppisition defence time to get all behind the ball.At the same time the half backs have moved into half forward line or more advanced. With aprox 20 players in total inside a space of 30 yds the play enevitably breaks down. There is then 60 metres between an exposed full back line and half back line.
A lot of this group of players have come through the development squads, great at underage and the organisation of the players stands out at that those levels, but an awful lot of these lads miss the creativity to make things happen. They are playing a game plan that looks like painting by numbers.
Also missing is a creative CHF who controls the spread of play. Tyrones variation is missing. The ball will come out of defence to about 50 metres, the player with the ball will then turn back and another will take in field. They will then turn play it back to the player on the sideline who will play it into the corner. the corner/full forward will collect ball and without looking automatically recycle 10 yds backwards and then there will be a procession of 4-5 cross field hand passes. In a cluttered potential scoring area and a lot of the time the ball will end with a half back rather that a shooter
Where did they get to last year?
Quote from: Bensars on May 20, 2014, 09:47:37 AM
Tyrones build up is far too slow. The ball is moved into full forward line, the target man turns back and plays ball ball backwards. It then sideways for a series of about 5 hand passes. This allows the oppisition defence time to get all behind the ball.At the same time the half backs have moved into half forward line or more advanced. With aprox 20 players in total inside a space of 30 yds the play enevitably breaks down. There is then 60 metres between an exposed full back line and half back line.
A lot of this group of players have come through the development squads, great at underage and the organisation of the players stands out at that those levels, but an awful lot of these lads miss the creativity to make things happen. They are playing a game plan that looks like painting by numbers.
Also missing is a creative CHF who controls the spread of play. Tyrones variation is missing. The ball will come out of defence to about 50 metres, the player with the ball will then turn back and another will take in field. They will then turn play it back to the player on the sideline who will play it into the corner. the corner/full forward will collect ball and without looking automatically recycle 10 yds backwards and then there will be a procession of 4-5 cross field hand passes. In a cluttered potential scoring area and a lot of the time the ball will end with a half back rather that a shooter
Agree with that. It was frustrating to watch. The forwards were just not showing for the ball.
Is the replay all ticket?
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 09:36:05 AM
I remember back in March I said I couldn't believe that there were rumblings against Mickey Harte after his accomplishments in Tyrone. I was assured that this was not aimed at Mickey, it was all grand and people were just making fair analysis of the team. I think the posts since (and immediately before) Sunday prove that I was close to the mark back then. I still can't believe it to be honest, but if ye are intent on running him out of town, I think ye better be careful of what you wish for.
Thats all fine coming from outside the county. I understand outside looking in it may be hard for people to understand but there is a growing sense of frustration within Tyrone at Mickeys tenure which extends to how clubs are treated and the weakness of the county board when dealing with Mickeys demands. These things can be swept under the carpet providing the county team is performing. Most people in GAA circles in the county were shocked at the team selection for sunday. Mickey helped deliver 3 AI's with exceptional talent available to him.
There is and has been a rich vain of talent in the county and the current management team has failed to deliver any return for now going on 6 years. How long would this situation be tolerated in any other county Dublin,Cork, Kerry, Mayo ?
Quote from: Bensars on May 20, 2014, 09:47:37 AM
Tyrones build up is far too slow. The ball is moved into full forward line, the target man turns back and plays ball ball backwards. It then sideways for a series of about 5 hand passes. This allows the oppisition defence time to get all behind the ball.At the same time the half backs have moved into half forward line or more advanced. With aprox 20 players in total inside a space of 30 yds the play enevitably breaks down. There is then 60 metres between an exposed full back line and half back line.
A lot of this group of players have come through the development squads, great at underage and the organisation of the players stands out at that those levels, but an awful lot of these lads miss the creativity to make things happen. They are playing a game plan that looks like painting by numbers.
Also missing is a creative CHF who controls the spread of play. Tyrones variation is missing. The ball will come out of defence to about 50 metres, the player with the ball will then turn back and another will take in field. They will then turn play it back to the player on the sideline who will play it into the corner. the corner/full forward will collect ball and without looking automatically recycle 10 yds backwards and then there will be a procession of 4-5 cross field hand passes. In a cluttered potential scoring area and a lot of the time the ball will end with a half back rather that a shooter
That is exactly how I see it. There is an awful lack of individual flair watching Tyrone teams play football over the last few years. They play an awful rigid, structured, low risk possession based game. Its a gameplan where possession is king, and its almost as though they are pre-programmed in their decision making before they take to the field. Its a classic case of players being over coached from an early age. In my opinion players should be taught all the basic skills from an early age but there has to be a freedom of expression for individuals to think outside the box and not constantly being forced to make movements or decisions based on what a coach tells them.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
Yeah it's all ticket Hereiam.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 20, 2014, 10:25:12 AM
Quote from: Bensars on May 20, 2014, 09:47:37 AM
Tyrones build up is far too slow. The ball is moved into full forward line, the target man turns back and plays ball ball backwards. It then sideways for a series of about 5 hand passes. This allows the oppisition defence time to get all behind the ball.At the same time the half backs have moved into half forward line or more advanced. With aprox 20 players in total inside a space of 30 yds the play enevitably breaks down. There is then 60 metres between an exposed full back line and half back line.
A lot of this group of players have come through the development squads, great at underage and the organisation of the players stands out at that those levels, but an awful lot of these lads miss the creativity to make things happen. They are playing a game plan that looks like painting by numbers.
Also missing is a creative CHF who controls the spread of play. Tyrones variation is missing. The ball will come out of defence to about 50 metres, the player with the ball will then turn back and another will take in field. They will then turn play it back to the player on the sideline who will play it into the corner. the corner/full forward will collect ball and without looking automatically recycle 10 yds backwards and then there will be a procession of 4-5 cross field hand passes. In a cluttered potential scoring area and a lot of the time the ball will end with a half back rather that a shooter
That is exactly how I see it. There is an awful lack of individual flair watching Tyrone teams play football over the last few years. They play an awful rigid, structured, low risk possession based game. Its a gameplan where possession is king, and its almost as though they are pre-programmed in their decision making before they take to the field. Its a classic case of players being over coached from an early age. In my opinion players should be taught all the basic skills from an early age but there has to be a freedom of expression for individuals to think outside the box and not constantly being forced to make movements or decisions based on what a coach tells them.
Very true. It is also very noticeable that no Tyrone player (especially in the FF line) seems to get the ball and try and beat his man and run for goal. Every other county has players who do this game in game out, and we have the players so why aren't they doing it. The team seems to have really went stale from a tactical perspective under Harte, really think its time for a change.
There's a frankly ridiculous level of over-analysis on this thread from Tyrone supporters.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
What I'm saying I suppose, is that if Mickey thinks he can offer something, it would be a big move to oust him, and I'd love to see him in Offaly. Put it like that. I know eaten bread is soon forgotten, but people who say Tyrone would be better off without Harte are making a big statement in my opinion.
god himself couldnt turn offaly around im afraid
'You cannot award a free when the ball is out of play,' insists Bannon
Referees' committee turn to Croke Park to help clear up mess after controversial Ulster tie.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html)
Says you. We were winning All Irelands when ye were still scraping around Omagh looking for a pump for a ball. :D
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:
- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.
My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:
- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.
My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.
You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?
The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:49:24 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
What I'm saying I suppose, is that if Mickey thinks he can offer something, it would be a big move to oust him, and I'd love to see him in Offaly. Put it like that. I know eaten bread is soon forgotten, but people who say Tyrone would be better off without Harte are making a big statement in my opinion.
The issue is not a case of ''if Mickey thinks he has something to offer he should stay'' it should be what is best for Tyrone football at the moment it looks to me that Tyrone need a change in direction and new thinking. The quality exists in the county and the structures/facilities are already in place there is no reason why a new management team would result in a decline.
Don't get me wrong, you can go on too long.
Pete McGrath would often be mooted as a prime example. It was tough on Pete though: he took on Down in 1990 when there was talent flowing throughout the county but no direction to it, and his job was to harness it - which he did. The next generation just weren't as talented.
But I'd observe that Pete didn't find a way to keep things ticking over, didn't find a way to blood players properly, couldn't find a way to phase old players out. And as a result Down went from winning Ulster Championship matches to being routinely destroyed in a rather short space of time.
Mickey Harte isn't doing that. He's managed to keep Tyrone hugely competitive, while phasing out almost the entire class of 2008. So if the likes of Conor McKenna and Lee Brennan step up to senior football in the next couple of years as they should, then it will be them adding spark to a team that knows how to play championship football.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 20, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:
- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.
My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.
You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?
The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.
When Tyrone are not making a big impact at U21 , it is probaly harder for those players to come through that quick. Tyrone have a big number of last years Minor team eligible this year, not sure who he could have brought into the Senior panel this year to be honest. Lee Brennan and Conor McKenna were their 2 best forwards last year, they are Minor this year
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:55:24 AM
As I said, how long do you hold that view for? It appears from what you are saying that he will be the Tyrone manager until he dies if he wants to be.
6 years without a decent championship scalp. Tyrone aren't getting into the championship top tier.
I'd trust the man to know when he feels he can do no more. I think he's earned that. Monaghan were the Ulster Champions when Tyrone beat them.
In 2009, Tyrone played 5 games, won Ulster and were beaten in the AI semi final. They beat Armagh, Derry, Antrim, Kildare and lost to Cork.
In 2010, Tyrone played 4 games, won Ulster and were beaten in the quarters by Dublin. They beat Antrim, Down and Monaghan. (Down got to the AI Final and lost by a point)
in 2011, Tyrone played 6 games, lost to Donegal in the Ulster semi final, Beat Longford, Armagh and Roscommon before losing to Dublin.
In 2012, Tyrone played 4 games, lost to Donegal again in Ulster, beat Roscommon and lost to Kerry.
In 2013, Tyrone again reached an All Ireland Semi Final, first time since 2009. Lost to bogey side Donegal (3 in a row) before beating Offaly, Roscommon, Kildare, Meath and Ulster Champs Monaghan before losing to Mayo.
That amounts to 26 games by my count, winning 69% (18 of 26). Won 2 Ulsters. They reached 2 All Ireland Semi Finals and regularly beat teams like Kildare, Down, Armagh, Roscommon and Monaghan.
I take your point that they've lost to Dublin, Mayo, Donegal (3 times!) Cork and Kerry but overall I'd say that's a good return on a team very much in transition.
Rodney everyone knows U21 is a load of nonsense anyway ;)
Quote from: Jinxy on May 20, 2014, 10:53:21 AM
'You cannot award a free when the ball is out of play,' insists Bannon
Referees' committee turn to Croke Park to help clear up mess after controversial Ulster tie.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html)
Ah, John Bannon. He obviously still has it out for Tyrone after he gave one of the worst displays of refereeing I have ever seen against Cork in 2009, and then stood by his decision to give John Miskella a yellow card when asked to review it despite it being a clear strike on Brian McGuigan. The man hasn't a clue.
Its very difficult to abondon the lads who have won All Irelands and who you can trust to perform on the biggest stage. Its great in hindsight to say that he should have just replaced these lads with younger players but how many here would have been happy if in 2010 Mickey suddenly dropped Ricey, Big Joe, Sean Cav, Phillip Jordan, Conor Gormley etc come a big championship game. The fact is we had great players and while they were still great players it was going to be difficult for yonger lads to force their way onto the team. Kerry had the same issue post 1986.
I personally think Mickey has done a great job keeping Tyrone competitive and would trust no other person in the county as much as Mickey to maintain us as a competitive force. 2 Ulster titles and 2 all ireland semi finals and a raft of quarters isnt a bad return since 2008 and the loss of so many players in a relatively short period of time.
One drawn performance v Down (remember we didnt lose the game) where a few things didnt quite work does not make Mickey a bad manager nor does i signal the end of Tyrone. I shall reserve judgement until this championship season ends. For some lads from Tyrone on here it appears that it cant come quickly enough as they want to get back to club action - which is fair enough, but for me, I expect a much improved Tyrone on Saturday night and I fully expect to be watching them as usual in Croker in August.
He clearly has issues with Croke park,he is regularly in the papers hammering his fellow former referees.
A team in transition that regularly beats the decent/strong teams, and loses to the very good teams, while winning Ulsters and getting to All Ireland semi finals and quarter finals is not exactly going through a terrible patch.
You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.
Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?
Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!
Tyrone won it this year - he is not a specialist in failure! :D
Quote from: screenexile on May 20, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
Is Mickey Harte the Arsene Wenger of the GAA world. . . if he wins the McKenna Cup next year that should offer him a reprieve!
He's a desperate stubborn/thick man by all accounts. What actually happened between him and Ronan O'Neill - for him not to be playing considering his form and effort is a unfair I think.
Also I heard at the start of the year county board tried to talk him into to letting someone within the setup talk to RTE and he refused very irately. He has a serious right to be annoyed about what happened but could not send someone out to deal with some questions?
Down got to the All Ireland final in 2010. And lost by a point. Tyrone beat them.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 11:35:38 AM
You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.
Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?
No, I said they haven't beaten any team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008.
If Tyrone are no longer contenders and are considered outside the top bracket of teams, then surely it should be deemed quite a success to regularly beat all the teams that are in the same bracket as you and maintain a level of competitveness that earns semi final places from time to time. I'd say the reality is that Tyrone are below the top 3 or 4 teams but will usuually beat the rest - in my opinion this is still fairly impressive given the turn over of players and the recent lack of competitive u21 teams.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 11:41:38 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 11:35:38 AM
You said 'since 2008'. So I took that as my sample size. If you mean since 2010 and you're talking about 2011, 12 and 13, then fair enough, but then last year would point to being an improvement. I'm not suggesting Tyrone are in the top 4 any more, but I think they are certainly in 5-8 and that's not bad when you consider the huge turnover.
Anyway, why are Offaly and Antrim men arguing over Tyrone football?
No, I said they haven't beaten any team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008.
Sure the Dubs were like that upto 2010. If you keep knocking, the door will open.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I think it would be fantastic if Banty was given the chance to do for Tyrone what he did for us.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 11:54:27 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
Malachy o'rourke would be the obvious one
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 20, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:
- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.
My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.
You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?
The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.
Seriously? You think a young fella from last years minor team should be on the Tyrone Senior panel this year? Tyrone won the Minor Championship in 2008 and 2010. There are at least 7 of last weeks starting team that were on those panels. Youth IS being brought through.
Quote from: EC Unique on May 20, 2014, 12:20:04 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 20, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:55:11 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 10:35:30 AM
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2014, 10:02:41 AM
AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare. :-\
AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.
You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.
Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:
- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.
My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.
You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?
The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.
Seriously? You think a young fella from last years minor team should be on the Tyrone Senior panel this year? Tyrone won the Minor Championship in 2008 and 2010. There are at least 7 of last weeks starting team that were on those panels. Youth IS being brought through.
Why not? Dublin brough Mannion, Mc Caffrey and Kilkenny through at 19. Tyrones best manager (thanks lads) is bringing through a raft of 19/20 year olds in Derry!
Well he did not really have much choice in Derry as there was feck all else to work with going by the results of the last few years!
Quote from: EC Unique on May 20, 2014, 12:57:19 PM
Well he did not really have much choice in Derry as there was feck all else to work with going by the results of the last few years!
And it'll result in us overtaking Tyrone :D
Jim Gavin will introduce Costello into a stellar forward line this year.
Sentiment will get you's nowhere!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 09:36:05 AM
I remember back in March I said I couldn't believe that there were rumblings against Mickey Harte after his accomplishments in Tyrone. I was assured that this was not aimed at Mickey, it was all grand and people were just making fair analysis of the team. I think the posts since (and immediately before) Sunday prove that I was close to the mark back then. I still can't believe it to be honest, but if ye are intent on running him out of town, I think ye better be careful of what you wish for.
AZ I normally look forward to reading your posts but as I came away from the match on Sunday and had a long drive on my own to Dublin I thought a lot about the game. I thought of how many old and young men who all seemed to be agreeing that Mickey is sure making some strange decisions. He usually throws in one or two curve balls in the first team of the year but for such a strange team to be named was exceptional. Then the story about Ronan O'Neill our top scorer I think from the league or maybe after McCurry with 4.24 I think approx.
I thought to myself when I post on the board tomorrow there will be a lot of non Ulster men thinking we're crazy talking about Mickey Harte and how he seems to have us playing a strange team with no evidence really of learning from our mistakes.
All the league we leaked goals and whilst we looked tighter the 1st half we were so so open the second. At one stage I started to look away after the kick outs as I knew another chance would be coming. Down could smell blood like sharks and there was no leadership anywhere in the team. There is nobody with the balls and drive to sort it out. Most of it was cos of our wing backs wanting to push up to support the attack. In my eyes Mickey is making these calls to play these types of players. Most are all good ball players but few are tough ballsy men who know how to hold a defence together. How many do you see eating the head of each other for letting a man go.
Did you see anyone giving out to whoever for not marking his man or letting him get goal side.
Jordan, Ricey, Dooher and Gormley would have went through you if you hadn't done your job.
Of course the players are mainly at fault but its the managers job to put it right after one or two games.
Team now know how open we are and so they go for the jugular. Mickey is slow to respond as he has been all year.
Do you not think we know that if it wasn't for Mickey Harte we would still probably have NO all Irelands. But that doesn't mean the man doesn't change and start making mistakes.
It's all to easy to be sitting in another county watching on in awe of a man who did a lot for Tyrone to say he can do no wrong and yis are some bunch to question him.
Yes he got us last year to the AI semi final which was a HUGE achievement but in my eyes the style of football he has us playing is awful to watch and as a few lads have been discussing here it is ruining the natural style that most players want to play.
I am not calling for Mickey's head as I don't know enough about how it all works but I just wanted to say don't say we have no right to discuss the pros and cons of the man and not just turn a blind eye to the man that will go down in Tyrone history as the best manager we ever had.
Fuzzman, it wasn't my intention at all to say you "have no right to discuss the pros and cons of the man and not just turn a blind eye to the man". What I'm saying is that I can't believe the outright calls for him to go. As you say, I'm in a different county, and I have huge respect for what he has done, but I don't know the ins and outs of the situation up there. What I will say, again, is be careful what you wish for. As far as I can see, from afar, Harte still has this bunch being very competitive if not at the absolute top any more. I'm sure he thinks he is building another team for Tyrone. The people who want to run him out of the job are basically saying that they don't trust him to do that anymore, and I find that a big call. But who am I to tell Tyrone fans what they have and have not the 'right' to do. It's your team, and your county. I'd just be careful about throwing the baby out with the bathwater if I were ye.
I will give it to the Tyrone boys - they love their football. Probably why they remain up there in the top 5-6 teams every year since 2003. Oh yeh, and also the fact that they have a brilliant manager who has revolutionised the Tyrone set up and team. Now, as we can see from the past 40 pages, being in the top 5-6 teams is no longer enough. Success is tough!!
Take a look at the number of Ulster and All Ireland minors we won compared to the other teams in Ulster in the last 16 yrs and that will tell why we are competitive, good players equals a good team as general rule.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:46:28 AM
There's a frankly ridiculous level of over-analysis on this thread from Tyrone supporters.
Totally.
Over the toip build up to the game all last week with some serious drivel posted.
This week the pitchfork brigade are in full flight.
There are some serious tactical geniuses and management/coach gurus on here from Tyrone.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 20, 2014, 02:11:28 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 20, 2014, 10:46:28 AM
There's a frankly ridiculous level of over-analysis on this thread from Tyrone supporters.
Totally.
Over the toip build up to the game all last week with some serious drivel posted.
This week the pitchfork brigade are in full flight.
There are some serious tactical geniuses and management/coach gurus on here from Tyrone.
Coney give you some run around anyway brick! :P lol
Kerry haven't won a minor since 1994. Gooch, Declan O'Sullivan, Tomás O'Sé, Darragh O'Sé, Paul Galvin and all the others have never won a minor. You need a few minors coming through to freshen up an existing team. Mickey's mistake may have been to hang on to too many of the noughties too long, and therefore have too much turnover in a short time. Nonetheless he is still trying to mould them into a new team right now.
If he did make that mistake, it's the same one Sean Boylan and Mick O'Dwyer made before him.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 02:14:57 PM
Kerry haven't won a minor since 1994. Gooch, Declan O'Sullivan, Tomás O'Sé, Darragh O'Sé, Paul Galvin and all the others have never won a minor. You need a few minors coming through to freshen up an existing team. Mickey's mistake may have been to hang on to too many of the noughties too long, and therefore have too much turnover in a short time. Nonetheless he is still trying to mould them into a new team right now.
If he did make that mistake, it's the same one Sean Boylan and Mick O'Dwyer made before him.
+1. What I alluded to earlier regarding his loyalty to the 97/98 and 01 minor teams over the 04, 08 and 10 winning sides. Now I'm not advocating that Jordan, Dooher, Mulligan etc should have been replaced but Mickey has been too loyal to average players Carlin, Penrose etc IMO.
I think thats a fair comment, and while some of the 2008 &2010 all ireland winning minors are coming through now, we got very little through from 04 who also won an allireland. This is possible due to the quality of players ahead of them at the time, but i think some of these players could certainly have been integrated a bit better.
Gonna hold my hands up here from what I said on yesterday. I was definitely wrong about any over-carrying for the Tyrone penalty. My bad!
Having said that there was a serious amount of over-carrying all day long and I hate to see it. It is unfair on defenders who make a good challenge, contain a player, and then five steps later are penalised themselves.
As for people calling for a red card for Morgan, There is no way it was a kick. it was a blatant trip. Red would have been more than harsh. Just cos it's a red card in soccer doesn't make it red in Gaelic. Black card was correct (well Coldrick couldn't have got everything wrong!!)
Is the replay on TV for those of us away from home?
Quote from: southdown on May 20, 2014, 03:07:12 PM
Is the replay on TV for those of us away from home?
no, i dont think it is
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 20, 2014, 02:18:04 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 02:14:57 PM
Kerry haven't won a minor since 1994. Gooch, Declan O'Sullivan, Tomás O'Sé, Darragh O'Sé, Paul Galvin and all the others have never won a minor. You need a few minors coming through to freshen up an existing team. Mickey's mistake may have been to hang on to too many of the noughties too long, and therefore have too much turnover in a short time. Nonetheless he is still trying to mould them into a new team right now.
If he did make that mistake, it's the same one Sean Boylan and Mick O'Dwyer made before him.
+1. What I alluded to earlier regarding his loyalty to the 97/98 and 01 minor teams over the 04, 08 and 10 winning sides. Now I'm not advocating that Jordan, Dooher, Mulligan etc should have been replaced but Mickey has been too loyal to average players Carlin, Penrose etc IMO.
Tyrone haven't won the u21 for a while
It has been obvious that Mickey has been reluctant to bring through minors straight away, whereas over the past few years Dublin have shown the other way to do it and brought good minors into the team straight away.
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 20, 2014, 03:33:59 PM
It has been obvious that Mickey has been reluctant to bring through minors straight away, whereas over the past few years Dublin have shown the other way to do it and brought good minors into the team straight away.
My granda used to say if you're good enough, you're old enough.
Quote from: orangeman on May 20, 2014, 03:36:52 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 20, 2014, 03:33:59 PM
It has been obvious that Mickey has been reluctant to bring through minors straight away, whereas over the past few years Dublin have shown the other way to do it and brought good minors into the team straight away.
My granda used to say if you're good enough, you're old enough.
How did he get on managing Tyrone?
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 03:38:09 PM
Quote from: orangeman on May 20, 2014, 03:36:52 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 20, 2014, 03:33:59 PM
It has been obvious that Mickey has been reluctant to bring through minors straight away, whereas over the past few years Dublin have shown the other way to do it and brought good minors into the team straight away.
My granda used to say if you're good enough, you're old enough.
How did he get on managing Tyrone?
Sacked for playing young cubs.
I have to laugh at some lads with the high and mighty attitude saying why are ye still chatting for 41 pages. Je4u$ lads it's a discussion forum where the emphasis is on discussion and sharing points and ideas. If you don't like it then don't read it and stop whinging.
I'm glad people can have a "Frank" discussion about this topic without getting accused of being on a witch hunt for Harte's head.
My biggest issue with Mickey these days is that to me (mainly from reading his books) he seemed to be a great man manager and knew that some players (like Mugsy) needed an arm around the shoulder and not a tough line attitude whereas others did. He kinda grew up as a manager with the 08 minor team and so probably had a lot of respect for them from an early stage.
It seems to me (but of course I'm not in the inside circle) that there is much more regimental structure in place now where Mickey isn't so forthcoming in his openness with the players and good communication isn't encouraged. From the outside it almost seems quite like a dictatorship mood and as an Everton fan I know what fear David Moyes brought to Everton and then to Man U
I just think Mickey has changed a lot in the last few years and is it any wonder. I think whilst he did well with the team last year despite playing a very negative style I think so far this year we've seen some very strange decisions and no real sign of trying to sow up a wide open defence.
Some players are good enough to play anywhere and chop and change but I think most players need stability from match to match and too many don't know themselves where is their best position cos we rarely see them play there two games in a row.
With the exception of maybe Colm Cavanagh and maybe McCurry I can't think of another player who regularly plays in the same position all the time. Is this good for the team and good for the players? Personally I think not but then again I've not won 3 AIs.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 20, 2014, 10:21:51 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2014, 09:36:05 AM
I remember back in March I said I couldn't believe that there were rumblings against Mickey Harte after his accomplishments in Tyrone. I was assured that this was not aimed at Mickey, it was all grand and people were just making fair analysis of the team. I think the posts since (and immediately before) Sunday prove that I was close to the mark back then. I still can't believe it to be honest, but if ye are intent on running him out of town, I think ye better be careful of what you wish for.
Thats all fine coming from outside the county. I understand outside looking in it may be hard for people to understand but there is a growing sense of frustration within Tyrone at Mickeys tenure which extends to how clubs are treated and the weakness of the county board when dealing with Mickeys demands. These things can be swept under the carpet providing the county team is performing. Most people in GAA circles in the county were shocked at the team selection for sunday. Mickey helped deliver 3 AI's with exceptional talent available to him.
There is and has been a rich vain of talent in the county and the current management team has failed to deliver any return for now going on 6 years. How long would this situation be tolerated in any other county Dublin,Cork, Kerry, Mayo ?
The issue with clubs is one the that some people in Tyrone keep throwing at Harte. As I've pointed out before in my opinion he's as reasonable if not more reasonable when it come's to county players than the average county manager. After Tyrone got knocked out in the league the players plaed with their clubs every week except for the week before the championship. They're due to play in the club championships next week which if Tyrone win on Saturday is just 2 weeks before the first round in Ulster. The county players will play 10 league games with their clubs plus championship and playoffs.
I think this attitude compares well to other top counties like Dublin and Mayo. Can anyone confirm? In Donegal they've games have been called of for training weeks and preparation for league finals. In Armagh county players haven't been allowed to play as far as I know for 4 or 5 weeks before the Cavan game.
As I say this is just one of the things thrown at Harte which in my opinion is unfair. I'd like to see clubs treated better but the problem is a national one and trying to compete with other counties and what they do as opposed to something Harte is doing wrong.
I also think a lot of Tyrone posters have become deluded from our 3 All Ireland wins and feel like we should be winning All Irelands every couple of years. We haven't won an All Ireland since 08 because we haven't been good enough.
People kept saying that after that win we were too slow to bring in new players but in my opinion they weren't there or ready to come in. That has been proven in the years after since the big name players retired. When a young player has showed promise Harte has never had an issue throwing them in - look at the likes of Harte, Mulgrew, McCurry etc.
Our track record at u21 level in recent years has been poor and Harte in my opinion has did a good job keeping us consistently as a top 8 team and challenging the top 5. I think we could have the potential to push on another bit but its down to the younger players really stepping up now.
The over the top reaction to a poor first round performance in a game that we didn't actually lose is comical. I'm very tempted to look back and pull out a few quotes from after the 08 first round game as I bet many are similar to now. Even if you look back to 03 I think Harte was getting plenty of stick after the Derry draw.
Time for Tyrone people to support the management and team in the middle of the championship instead of over the top criticism.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 20, 2014, 05:23:02 PM
I also think a lot of Tyrone posters have become deluded from our 3 All Ireland wins and feel like we should be winning All Irelands every couple of years. We haven't won an All Ireland since 08 because we haven't been good enough.
People kept saying that after that win we were too slow to bring in new players but in my opinion they weren't there or ready to come in. That has been proven in the years after since the big name players retired. When a young player has showed promise Harte has never had an issue throwing them in - look at the likes of Harte, Mulgrew, McCurry etc.
Our track record at u21 level in recent years has been poor and Harte in my opinion has did a good job keeping us consistently as a top 8 team and challenging the top 5. I think we could have the potential to push on another bit but its down to the younger players really stepping up now.
The over the top reaction to a poor first round performance in a game that we didn't actually lose is comical. I'm very tempted to look back and pull out a few quotes from after the 08 first round game as I bet many are similar to now. Even if you look back to 03 I think Harte was getting plenty of stick after the Derry draw.
Time for Tyrone people to support the management and team in the middle of the championship instead of over the top criticism.
+1 Well said!
To be fair not many inside the county are criticising Harte or saying he needs to go. It's alot of hot air from lads from counties that have been shitter than us for the last 10 years. I wouldn't pay much heed to a keyboard warrior from a GAA wasteland.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 20, 2014, 05:23:02 PM
I also think a lot of Tyrone posters have become deluded from our 3 All Ireland wins and feel like we should be winning All Irelands every couple of years. We haven't won an All Ireland since 08 because we haven't been good enough.
People kept saying that after that win we were too slow to bring in new players but in my opinion they weren't there or ready to come in. That has been proven in the years after since the big name players retired. When a young player has showed promise Harte has never had an issue throwing them in - look at the likes of Harte, Mulgrew, McCurry etc.
Our track record at u21 level in recent years has been poor and Harte in my opinion has did a good job keeping us consistently as a top 8 team and challenging the top 5. I think we could have the potential to push on another bit but its down to the younger players really stepping up now.
The over the top reaction to a poor first round performance in a game that we didn't actually lose is comical. I'm very tempted to look back and pull out a few quotes from after the 08 first round game as I bet many are similar to now. Even if you look back to 03 I think Harte was getting plenty of stick after the Derry draw.
Time for Tyrone people to support the management and team in the middle of the championship instead of over the top criticism.
I can tell you what was truely comical is Mickey's team selection on Sunday. Nothing to do with a manager keeping tyrone in top 8 or bringing young players in or anything other than reckless and stupid. It is the mark of a manager who appears to have lost sight of things. What was he trying to prove? that he could pick players out of sorts and out of position and still go on to beat a very average Down side. If any other manager had put out a side of a similar nature they would be torn apart on here but because it was Mickey Harte then it can be excused because he has kept us in the top 8. Tyrone where a top 8-10 teams in the country under Art McCrory so i dont see it as any achievement that we have been allowed to fall back into the chasing pack.
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2014, 05:54:50 PM
To be fair not many inside the county are criticising Harte or saying he needs to go. It's alot of hot air from lads from counties that have been shitter than us for the last 10 years. I wouldn't pay much heed to a keyboard warrior from a GAA wasteland.
Yes because the GAA started in 2003. Aren't you an opinionated keyboard warrior from a Rugby "wasteland"...
The problem with Mickey is that he didn't know when to get out. The criticism of Mickey Harte on here now isn't anything new. I've been hearing it for the past two years. What's changed now is that the Down game epitomised the problems with Tyrone over the past 5 years- and nothing seems to change.
Tyrone fans (myself included) have been more than happy to give Mickey and his backroom team time to bed new players in. The difference is that it's now 2014. Tyrone were in an All Ireland semi-final last year. They had shown that they could compete with the top couple of teams in the country. That upward trajectory seems to have stalled this year, truth be told at the minute Tyrone look like they've gone backwards.
Against Down, having had 12 games, 5 McKenna Cup and 7 League games, to come up with a settled team, Mickey picked an experimental line up. At no stage did Tyrone reach championship pace with what was truth be told a fairly average Down team. In fact when Down raised the tempo Tyrone looked lost. Defensively it's been clear for a couple of years that problems exist and next to nothing has been done to remedy it. On the line it was clear things were going against Tyrone but it took Down taking a two point lead before changes were made. A win on Sunday would have papered over cracks.
To clarify issues with team selection:
Barry Tierney (who Mickey, either through incompetence or choice, left on for 68 minutes in Killarney to get a roasting- something which helped neither Tierney nor the team) appeared in a Tyrone team for the first time since the Kerry game. Now I'm not criticising picking Barry Tierney, I like the fella, but he hadn't played a game with Tyrone since Killarney. Surely it would have made sense to give him some game time in the league after that to get some sort of confidence back into his play?
Danny McBride- Again I've no problem with Danny but had he been given a run of games (we had 12 after all) to settle into the full back role before Sunday? Surely that would have helped?
Matthew Donnelly- One of Tyrone's genuinely top class performers hasn't been given a settled position. He just seemed to be settling into full foward when he was moved to centre half back. He's being moved around to fill gaps. Give the man a position and let him play.
Ciaran McGinley- a defender and one who performed well last year at wing back is now being asked to play at wing forward, again out of position. Could he not have been left where he was?
Niall McKenna- during the league played at midfield and briefly at wing forward. Come the championship given his first start at full foward. Why not give him games there prior to Sunday?
Sean Cavanagh- one of the best midfielders of recent years, Player of the Year at full foward- given the centre half forward role on Sunday having played almost exclusively at midfield over the last couple of seasons.
These were just the fairly obvious problems with Sunday's team even before Tyrone played. There are long-standing issues that Tyrone having addressed and have almost ignored.
Man marking corner back- Tyrone still haven't found themselves one. It seems to be the management's policy that the best way to find one isn't to pick someone who's playing as a man marker for their club, rather to try and convert a natural half back into a corner back.
Where to use Peter Harte- He's been a regular fixture in the team from 2011 and on his day can be among the best in the country but no position has been found for him yet. He's too defensively lax to be playing in defence.
Find another 11- Brian McGuigan's don't grow on trees and that's accepted. But nobody has been given an extended run at 11 to try and settle into the position.
For a county of Tyrone's size and resources, I don't think it's unreasonable to be expecting to be competing at the highest level. We should be striving to win All Irelands and not saying, "wasn't it great back in the 2000s". Tyrone have been producing players of a high enough standard but in recent years they haven't been getting enough out of them. Donegal won an All Ireland two years ago. I don't think their players are any better than anything Tyrone have at their disposal.
There are too many people willing to make excuses and put things off to next year. I'm prepared to give Mickey time but he really needs to start getting a settled team
But there has to be a reason for the demise of great teams - As AZ and a couple of others have said, it happened to a lot of different managers - Pete McGrath, Billy Morgan, Sean Boylan, even Micko in the late eighties.
And the reason is, IMO, is how do you replace players that win All Irelands?
How could Down ever hoped to have replaced the forwared line containing Carr, Blaney, Mason, Linden & McCartan?
These players come along once in a lifetime - How do you replace Brian Dooher?
I remember wee Pete getting a lot of stick regarding holding on too long to old hands and I agreed with it.
In hindsight, who was going to come in and do a better job than, say, DJ or Barry Breen?! And I know for a fact the majority of them believed they had another AI in them.
I would agree with the Tyrone followers that Mickey makes strange decisions, but, believe me, changing the man does not mean an upturn in fortunes! And as a Down man I would give anything to have 2 Ulster Championships since 2008.
All teams go through it - Armagh can now breathe air as it cant get any worse for them, Down trundle along, in mediocrity, with Meath & Galway.
Hopefully this is the year we win the Ulster we require!
Its called Bismarcks Prussian Syndrome.
Quote from: barelegs on May 20, 2014, 06:36:38 PM
The problem with Mickey is that he didn't know when to get out. The criticism of Mickey Harte on here now isn't anything new. I've been hearing it for the past two years. What's changed now is that the Down game epitomised the problems with Tyrone over the past 5 years- and nothing seems to change.
Tyrone fans (myself included) have been more than happy to give Mickey and his backroom team time to bed new players in. The difference is that it's now 2014. Tyrone were in an All Ireland semi-final last year. They had shown that they could compete with the top couple of teams in the country. That upward trajectory seems to have stalled this year, truth be told at the minute Tyrone look like they've gone backwards.
Against Down, having had 12 games, 5 McKenna Cup and 7 League games, to come up with a settled team, Mickey picked an experimental line up. At no stage did Tyrone reach championship pace with what was truth be told a fairly average Down team. In fact when Down raised the tempo Tyrone looked lost. Defensively it's been clear for a couple of years that problems exist and next to nothing has been done to remedy it. On the line it was clear things were going against Tyrone but it took Down taking a two point lead before changes were made. A win on Sunday would have papered over cracks.
To clarify issues with team selection:
Barry Tierney (who Mickey, either through incompetence or choice, left on for 68 minutes in Killarney to get a roasting- something which helped neither Tierney nor the team) appeared in a Tyrone team for the first time since the Kerry game. Now I'm not criticising picking Barry Tierney, I like the fella, but he hadn't played a game with Tyrone since Killarney. Surely it would have made sense to give him some game time in the league after that to get some sort of confidence back into his play?
Danny McBride- Again I've no problem with Danny but had he been given a run of games (we had 12 after all) to settle into the full back role before Sunday? Surely that would have helped?
Matthew Donnelly- One of Tyrone's genuinely top class performers hasn't been given a settled position. He just seemed to be settling into full foward when he was moved to centre half back. He's being moved around to fill gaps. Give the man a position and let him play.
Ciaran McGinley- a defender and one who performed well last year at wing back is now being asked to play at wing forward, again out of position. Could he not have been left where he was?
Niall McKenna- during the league played at midfield and briefly at wing forward. Come the championship given his first start at full foward. Why not give him games there prior to Sunday?
Sean Cavanagh- one of the best midfielders of recent years, Player of the Year at full foward- given the centre half forward role on Sunday having played almost exclusively at midfield over the last couple of seasons.
These were just the fairly obvious problems with Sunday's team even before Tyrone played. There are long-standing issues that Tyrone having addressed and have almost ignored.
Man marking corner back- Tyrone still haven't found themselves one. It seems to be the management's policy that the best way to find one isn't to pick someone who's playing as a man marker for their club, rather to try and convert a natural half back into a corner back.
Where to use Peter Harte- He's been a regular fixture in the team from 2011 and on his day can be among the best in the country but no position has been found for him yet. He's too defensively lax to be playing in defence.
Find another 11- Brian McGuigan's don't grow on trees and that's accepted. But nobody has been given an extended run at 11 to try and settle into the position.
For a county of Tyrone's size and resources, I don't think it's unreasonable to be expecting to be competing at the highest level. We should be striving to win All Irelands and not saying, "wasn't it great back in the 2000s". Tyrone have been producing players of a high enough standard but in recent years they haven't been getting enough out of them. Donegal won an All Ireland two years ago. I don't think their players are any better than anything Tyrone have at their disposal.
There are too many people willing to make excuses and put things off to next year. I'm prepared to give Mickey time but he really needs to start getting a settled team
No its nothing new it started in 2003 at the start of the championship and is still continuing despite winning 3 All Irelands and 4 ulster titles and consistently getting to at least the quarter finals in the All Ireland. It reached a peak in 08 but stopped for a while after the 3rd All Ireland but has slowly built up since not winning the All Ireland. In my opinion no manager would have delivered an All Ireland since 08 and certainly not one from Tyrone.
I don't think everything he does is perfect and was unhappy with the selection last week myself. I also couldn't understand why he chose to play the likes of Tierney after not seeing him from the Kerry game. I'm sure he had reasons for his selections (for example McNamee his first choice was injured and hence the McBride selection) and I'm prepared to trust the man.
You have said we have regressed from last year but I don't think that can be judged until after the championship. Last year we posted a very disappointing performnace up in Donegal and still went on to reach the semi's. We have started the championship under Harte slowly a lot of years and without a fully settled side (albeit not as many changes as this year) so hopefully things will improve as time goes on.
I think there'll be an improvment come Saturday night and hope plenty of our so called supporters come out to support the team rather than sitting at home complaining on the internet.
I think there'll be an improvment come Saturday night and hope plenty of our so called supporters come out to support the team rather than sitting at home complaining on the internet.
[/quote]I agree with this and even if tyrone were to be lose on saturday,it would provide more matches for younger players to prove themselves.Plenty of time for this discussion off season.
Great drama on Sunday either way. Overall I think there maybe 1, at most 2 bad games in the Ulster championship every year and nobody ever knows whose gonna win it (reflected in bookmaker's odds). It's a rat rac as always and the bloody preliminary round hasn't even been settled yet.
I think whoever looses can still make a decent go of it in the back door, although in fairness it's am energy sapping summer going that route.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on May 20, 2014, 06:16:36 PM
Quote from: trileacman on May 20, 2014, 05:54:50 PM
To be fair not many inside the county are criticising Harte or saying he needs to go. It's alot of hot air from lads from counties that have been shitter than us for the last 10 years. I wouldn't pay much heed to a keyboard warrior from a GAA wasteland.
Yes because the GAA started in 2003. Aren't you an opinionated keyboard warrior from a Rugby "wasteland"...
;D. Can't believe he took the bait.
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the last 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
Quote from: thebuzz on May 20, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the last 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.
Minor manager 1991- 1998
Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98
U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01
Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08
Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.
But there has to be a reason for the demise of great teams - As AZ and a couple of others have said, it happened to a lot of different managers - Pete McGrath, Billy Morgan, Sean Boylan, even Micko in the late eighties.And the reason is, IMO, is how do you replace players that win All Irelands?How could Down ever hoped to have replaced the forwared line containing Carr, Blaney, Mason, Linden & McCartan?These players come along once in a lifetime - How do you replace Brian Dooher?I remember wee Pete getting a lot of stick regarding holding on too long to old hands and I agreed with it. In hindsight, who was going to come in and do a better job than, say, DJ or Barry Breen?! And I know for a fact the majority of them believed they had another AI in them.I would agree with the Tyrone followers that Mickey makes strange decisions, but, believe me, changing the man does not mean an upturn in fortunes! And as a Down man I would give anything to have 2 Ulster Championships since 2008.All teams go through it - Armagh can now breathe air as it cant get any worse for them, Down trundle along, in mediocrity, with Meath & Galway. Hopefully this is the year we win the Ulster we require!
Page after page of drivel and over analysis , Barry Breen in this post has hit the nail on the head 100 % correct
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 20, 2014, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on May 20, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.
Minor manager 1991- 1998
Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98
U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01
Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08
Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.
Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.
That's a complete f**king contradiction. So the reason Harte is successful is because of the players. Now that the team drew with Down it's all Harte's fault and nothing to do with the players.
Part of me wants to see Harte f**k the lot of ye and leave so that we can get slide into mediocrity like Down, Armagh, Meath and Glaway. Maybe then we won't have to listen to you crying f**kers who probably haven't even won a feile in your lifes never mind manage teams to win 6 All-Irelands.
lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.
Quote from: rrhf on May 21, 2014, 12:07:37 AM
lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.
When was the last time that has happened to us? Two draws I mean.
All Ireland minor semifinal 97. Before that national league semi final 1984.
A very good question there young O'Neill.
For the Championship, my records show it was in the 1933 series.
Tyrone 0-3 Antrim 0-3 in Coalisland
Antrim 3-5 Tyrone 3-5 in Belfast
Tyrone 1-8 Antrim 1-2 in Omagh.
Cavan went on to bate us 6-13 to 1-2.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 11:40:17 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 20, 2014, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on May 20, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.
Minor manager 1991- 1998
Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98
U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01
Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08
Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.
Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.
That is the sentimental response i would have expected. I would not try to down play Mickey's ability to get the best from that bunch of exceptional talent. I would however question his ability to do the same with another set of players who he has not the same connection to. No one on here has yet to give a resonable rational to sundays team selection or addressed his failure to convert a number of AI minor title winning teams of 04,08 and 10 into a team with AI credentials.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2014, 12:09:34 AM
Quote from: rrhf on May 21, 2014, 12:07:37 AM
lads stop talking all irelands and ulsters for a minute....both teams lets just win what will be one hell of a battle on saturday. dont rule out another draw.
When was the last time that has happened to us? Two draws I mean.
Was it not '08 - decided by extra time instead of a 2nd replay?
Mourne boys and their technicalities.
Quote from: trileacman on May 21, 2014, 12:02:28 AM
That's a complete f**king contradiction. So the reason Harte is successful is because of the players. Now that the team drew with Down it's all Harte's fault and nothing to do with the players.
Part of me wants to see Harte f**k the lot of ye and leave so that we can get slide into mediocrity like Down, Armagh, Meath and Glaway. Maybe then we won't have to listen to you crying f**kers who probably haven't even won a feile in your lifes never mind manage teams to win 6 All-Irelands.
I wish he would. I think he aready has delivered Tyrone into mediocrity we have failed to beat a top side in the championship since 08 so mediocrity is where its at.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 21, 2014, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 11:40:17 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 20, 2014, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on May 20, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.
Minor manager 1991- 1998
Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98
U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01
Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08
Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.
Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.
That is the sentimental response i would have expected. I would not try to down play Mickey's ability to get the best from that bunch of exceptional talent. I would however question his ability to do the same with another set of players who he has not the same connection to. No one on here has yet to give a resonable rational to sundays team selection or addressed his failure to convert a number of AI minor title winning teams of 04,08 and 10 into a team with AI credentials.
2013 Mayo
2012 Dublin
2011 Tipperary
2010 Tyrone
2009 Armagh
2008 Tyrone
2007 Galway
2006 Roscommon
2005 Down
2004 Tyrone
2003 Laois
2002 Derry
2001 Tyrone
2000 Cork
1999 Down
1998 Tyrone
1997 Laois
1996 Laois
So the list of AI winning minor teams since 1996 - how many of these counties have gone on to win Senior All Irelands? Only 2 other counties who have won minor championships have gone on to win senior All Irelands, it's no guarantee for success. In that time, under Mickey, Tyrone has won 3.
8 of the starting team in 2008 didn't start the 2003 final, so to say Mickey couldn't work with different players is just nonsense.
I have my problems with some of the selections but I'm happy to admit that the management see more of the team than I do and are most likely looking at August with this squad rather than May. I fully expect a much better Tyrone on Saturday night, Mickey has a decent record in replays.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2014, 12:15:53 AM
A very good question there young O'Neill.
For the Championship, my records show it was in the 1933 series.
Tyrone 0-3 Antrim 0-3 in Coalisland
Antrim 3-5 Tyrone 3-5 in Belfast
Tyrone 1-8 Antrim 1-2 in Omagh.
Cavan went on to bate us 6-13 to 1-2.
Tyrone should have let Antrim bate them that day. It was great weather for a game or three that summer.
Aye I was reading there that an hour or so the Cavan game the Dungannon boys walked out in protest over a club decision and team selection, leaving Tyrone with less than 15 players. They pulled a few lads from the crowd.
Cavan went on to win the AI. The next year Tyrone ran them to a point.
Kerry stopped winning AIs for a while. So too Cork ( an awful long while the one came in 2010 ). Meath stopped too.
Since 2008, it's been Tyrone's turn - and it's not because of the manager Mickey Harte. Mickey and his backroom team have been simply brilliant. Had Harte not been around who knows, Tyrone might not have won any Sam Maguire cups. Tyrone were a brilliant outfit - but they had a brilliant manager - both complimented each other. The brilliant team is gone. The brilliant manager who is making the best of what he has, ( a national league final one point defeat to Dublin and a semi final loss to Mayo in 2013 is a mighty fine return having begun to rebuild after the hammering in 2012 in Killarney and the final break up of one of the finest teams to play football ) but the brilliant manager remains.
Harte is still keeping Tyrone at the top table and by his managerial brilliance, will continue to do so. Tyrone fans who are critical of Harte, here's some advice ( other counties have learnt the hard way ) - be careful for what you wish for.
Most other counties would give their right arm and leg to have Harte manage them.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 21, 2014, 12:34:49 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 21, 2014, 12:17:11 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 20, 2014, 11:40:17 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 20, 2014, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: thebuzz on May 20, 2014, 10:24:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on Today at 11:52:48 AM
A new voice and fresh ideas might pave the way for Tyrone to re-enter the top tier.
Fair enough - any suggestions?
I guarantee you if Tyrone are to win another All Ireland in the next five years the only way they'll do it is with Mickey Harte at the helm.
I'm very much in the AZOffaly camp. They mightn't even have won one in the luast 11 years if he hadn't been the manager.
This blind homage to Mickey is comical have people stopped to think the reason mickey has won so many AI's. Is it possible that it is more to do with the players he had available to him than any magical management ability he may have. Have a look at his record.
Minor manager 1991- 1998
Ulster titles won 93,97,98
AI's lost 97
AI's won 98
U21 manager 1999 - 2002
Ulster titles won 00,01, 02
AI's won 00,01
Senior manager 2003 - 13
Ulster won 03,07,09,10
AI's won 03,05,08
Mickey essentially has won all of his titles with one group of exceptional players. The vast bulk of these players have retired. Lets not forget that Art and mckenna had already made the break through by winning Tyrones first National Title in 02 with a div 1 win and whos to say AI success would not have followed. I dont buy into the idea that Harte is the only manager that can progress Tyrone towards another AI win in fact if you take his team selection of sunday into account I would say he may hinder their chances.
Yes, Mickey had good players but it was him who bought them through from 16/17 years of age. He moulded that bunch of young lads from talented young players into multiple All Ireland champions at all grades. Any attempt to down play that achievement is unfair and shows a lack of appreciation of what's involved in managing a group of young players. Do people say Micko was just an average manager of great players? Was Alex Ferguson "lucky" the class of 92 just came along? Young players all over Ireland don't fulfil their potential yet, Mickey managed to guide a bunch of lads (through all sorts of tragedies) to not only fulfil their own individual potential but to collectively become a great team. I for one will always appreciate that achievement regardless of what happens this year or next.
That is the sentimental response i would have expected. I would not try to down play Mickey's ability to get the best from that bunch of exceptional talent. I would however question his ability to do the same with another set of players who he has not the same connection to. No one on here has yet to give a resonable rational to sundays team selection or addressed his failure to convert a number of AI minor title winning teams of 04,08 and 10 into a team with AI credentials.
2013 Mayo
2012 Dublin
2011 Tipperary
2010 Tyrone
2009 Armagh
2008 Tyrone
2007 Galway
2006 Roscommon
2005 Down
2004 Tyrone
2003 Laois
2002 Derry
2001 Tyrone
2000 Cork
1999 Down
1998 Tyrone
1997 Laois
1996 Laois
So the list of AI winning minor teams since 1996 - how many of these counties have gone on to win Senior All Irelands? Only 2 other counties who have won minor championships have gone on to win senior All Irelands, it's no guarantee for success. In that time, under Mickey, Tyrone has won 3.
8 of the starting team in 2008 didn't start the 2003 final, so to say Mickey couldn't work with different players is just nonsense.
I have my problems with some of the selections but I'm happy to admit that the management see more of the team than I do and are most likely looking at August with this squad rather than May. I fully expect a much better Tyrone on Saturday night, Mickey has a decent record in replays.
The surprising thing about your list is how consistant Tyrone have been at winning minor titles in that period. The point is not that minor success in any one year guarantees senior titles but a sustained period of success should give you a pool of players who can give you the bases of an AI winning side. Mickey was able to do this with the 97/98 minor side as his base. In 08 the same base was there and a number of the 01 and 04 sides where added. What has happened with the 04/08 and 10 base ?
He's won All Irelands with 97/98 teams and then again with 01/04 vintage. So he's proved he can do it - twice! No other manager in Ireland has achieved that in recent years. Who is your suggestion to take over if Harte moves on?
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 21, 2014, 12:59:17 AM
He's won All Irelands with 97/98 teams and then again with 01/04 vintage. So he's proved he can do it - twice! No other manager in Ireland has achieved that in recent years. Who is your suggestion to take over if Harte moves on?
97/98 minor team was the base for 03/05 and 08. The 97/98 teams contained the golden generation. 01/04/08 and 10 have not fulfilled their potential under Mickey. After the 97/98 players faded the success has faded with it. O Rourke or McIvor/Gormely would be my preferance to take over but I am sure there would be a long list of suitable people interested given the talent and resources available within the county.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2014, 12:45:28 AM
Aye I was reading there that an hour or so the Cavan game the Dungannon boys walked out in protest over a club decision and team selection, leaving Tyrone with less than 15 players. They pulled a few lads from the crowd.
Cavan went on to win the AI. The next year Tyrone ran them to a point.
In that era did Tyrone wear the colours of the county champions?
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 21, 2014, 01:12:36 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 21, 2014, 12:59:17 AM
He's won All Irelands with 97/98 teams and then again with 01/04 vintage. So he's proved he can do it - twice! No other manager in Ireland has achieved that in recent years. Who is your suggestion to take over if Harte moves on?
97/98 minor team was the base for 03/05 and 08. The 97/98 teams contained the golden generation. 01/04/08 and 10 have not fulfilled their potential under Mickey. After the 97/98 players faded the success has faded with it. O Rourke or McIvor/Gormely would be my preferance to take over but I am sure there would be a long list of suitable people interested given the talent and resources available within the county.
The 1997/98 teams were great but your argument does not stack up. In the 2008 All Ireland final just 5 of the 97/98 team started. So 2/3's of the team were made up of players that didn't play on it. It would have been 11 only for the fact that John Devine was unavailable. I think 4 players played from the 2001 minor team in the 08 final which is the same number of outfield players as the 1997/98 team. But sure believe what you want to. In a few years time some of the people will forget their criticism of Harte and be begging for him to come back.
Whats it gonna be like on here when an average/medicore side like Down beat Tyrone on Saturday evening.
I wonder would any credit be due.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 21, 2014, 08:12:27 AM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 21, 2014, 01:12:36 AM
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 21, 2014, 12:59:17 AM
He's won All Irelands with 97/98 teams and then again with 01/04 vintage. So he's proved he can do it - twice! No other manager in Ireland has achieved that in recent years. Who is your suggestion to take over if Harte moves on?
97/98 minor team was the base for 03/05 and 08. The 97/98 teams contained the golden generation. 01/04/08 and 10 have not fulfilled their potential under Mickey. After the 97/98 players faded the success has faded with it. O Rourke or McIvor/Gormely would be my preferance to take over but I am sure there would be a long list of suitable people interested given the talent and resources available within the county.
The 1997/98 teams were great but your argument does not stack up. In the 2008 All Ireland final just 5 of the 97/98 team started. So 2/3's of the team were made up of players that didn't play on it. It would have been 11 only for the fact that John Devine was unavailable. I think 4 players played from the 2001 minor team in the 08 final which is the same number of outfield players as the 1997/98 team. But sure believe what you want to. In a few years time some of the people will forget their criticism of Harte and be begging for him to come back.
Alot of what he is saying doesnt stack up. There is 6 of the minor team from 2008 either starting or close to starting on Sunday (However, lads on here are heavily critical of at least 3 of them) and 3 of the 2010 team are there or there abouts. Bill, I would be interested to hear who else you think should be on the starting team from those panels that would turn the team into All Ireland champions?
So if you say that the 97/98 team was the base for the 2003 and maybe 2005 All Ireland wins, that gives 5 years between winning the 98 Minor and 2003 Senior All Irelands. So you would be expecting an All Ireland from the 2010 crop by 2015? Maybe getting to an All Ireland semi final by 2013 shows good progress? It is better prgress than the 98 crop acheived did under Big Art who never managed to get beyond the quarter final until Mickey took over. Remember in 2003 we also drew with Down and Derry in Ulster.
Anyone know if this game will be shown live on any channel this weekend?
Will there likely be a link thrown up Saturday evening for it..streamed??
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 21, 2014, 09:54:50 AM
Anyone know if this game will be shown live on any channel this weekend?
Will there likely be a link thrown up Saturday evening for it..streamed??
Radio Googoo or tv gaagaa
??Huh
Overseas for the weekend and wil miss game but just wondering where I could watch it or even online on the laptop.
Down lads/lassies, what's your thinking for Saturday evenings team? Will Benny start and come off or appear for 2nd half? A middle three of Benny, Ambrose and McKernan would be formidable.
Cant see that happening.
Benny isn't fit for full game and probably best used as an impact sub.
Ambrose likewise and with his history of injuries would be best suited to the half forward line.
if I had to guess id say the team that started last weekend wont be far off what will start this weekend, bar one or two enforced changes through injuries or niggles picked up last week.
Can't see Benny starting. Impact sub is a new agreed role for him. The bigger debates are if Turley will start? could Dan Gordon make an appearance? How will the Johnston brothers be used?
Brick, I am in the same boat, I cannot see anything to suggest it will be on tv/online.
Ive just been told that apparently the only way to get coverage of this game is through radio broadcast.
The RTÉ player used to stream all (or nearly all) the championship games live. Has this stopped?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BoJUe3yIQAAjMr1.jpg)
Surely the post above should be in the Are Tyrone Finished Thread ;D
That press building in Omagh looks like a huge Robot looking down on the field. Were the Kildare team there watching?
Cormac Reilly is doing the replay.It's a shame it's not live.
Only 45 pages, well I suppose there is a few days left before the replay.
The 2008 game got 89 pages of discussion, funnily enough most of it is the same as this thread
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=7477.1290
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Quote from: tyronebhoy on May 21, 2014, 02:01:31 PM
Only 45 pages, well I suppose there is a few days left before the replay.
The 2008 game got 89 pages of discussion, funnily enough most of it is the same as this thread
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=7477.1290
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
hopefully Tyrone will win the replay.
Quote from: ziggysego on June 16, 2008, 11:47:20 AM
Quote from: orangeman on June 16, 2008, 11:38:10 AM
The eternal optomist ! ;)
Gotta stick with the team through thick and thin. Have faith me old boy ;)
Fair play to you Zig, you called it back in the day. Bet you wish you'd put a ton on Tyrone to go the whole way in the bookies!
BTW heard you on talkback yesterday, you spoke well. Apart from missing the irony in the transit van comment ;)
I was at the last Down v Tyrone game in Park Esler last February in the league. It was a cracking match - Down conceded a dreadful goal and Tyrone had a bit of help from a great second half performance from Conor Clarke (and a not so great performance from Barry Cassidy!) I hope the game this Saturday is as spicy as that one was - the atmosphere that night was fantastic - hostile and intense. Tyrone were very lucky to get away with a win and I'd say it'll go either way this weekend as well.
Looking forward to it - either way, there'll be a long old summer ahead. I don't mind the 'back-door' at all - it means more games to go and watch and there's nothing wrong with that! We're not going to win Sam so why not have as many days out as possible?
Quick question regarding tickets. On the website it states that tickets are available for the Canal Terrace. Is this behind the goals or is there just the one terrace which covers 3 sides of the pitch?
Last time I was there, 2008, you could access all three terraces from one entrance.
Quote from: maco on May 21, 2014, 07:28:12 PM
Quick question regarding tickets. On the website it states that tickets are available for the Canal Terrace. Is this behind the goals or is there just the one terrace which covers 3 sides of the pitch?
the terrace tickets cover 3 sides of the ground, you're not restricted to a certain area e.g behind one of the goais.
Anyone know what section H is like in the stand? Hoping its not the very corner.
Wee James called it 15 months ago about Micky Hartes men and their diving! Looks like nothing has changed... Hope wee Laverty didn't hurt big Seans tummy and he's fit to play on Saturday!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KPsofCVUu8
Quote from: Just Puck It on May 21, 2014, 11:52:11 PM
Wee James called it 15 months ago about Micky Hartes men and their diving! Looks like nothing has changed... Hope wee Laverty didn't hurt big Seans tummy and he's fit to play on Saturday!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KPsofCVUu8
Wee James wrote the book on diving so he's bound to know.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 21, 2014, 11:56:14 PM
Quote from: Just Puck It on May 21, 2014, 11:52:11 PM
Wee James called it 15 months ago about Micky Hartes men and their diving! Looks like nothing has changed... Hope wee Laverty didn't hurt big Seans tummy and he's fit to play on Saturday!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KPsofCVUu8
Wee James wrote the book on diving so he's bound to know.
Cheeky little pup. Will be nice to see him defeated on Sat night.
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 21, 2014, 08:26:51 PM
Anyone know what section H is like in the stand? Hoping its not the very corner.
Section H is ok, Ideally you'd want an D, E, F or G but at this stage I'd settle for a H.
Section G for me on season tickets
Do you think there's any chance of getting tickets at the game?
I'm tempted to go up as it's on quite early
In 2008 I stayed around town after the game but is it a nightmare getting out of the place?
If I wanted to leave in a hurry towards Dublin would I be best to park miles away and walk down the Dublin road big hill?
Could be a long way back up it
I presume BBC can't show the replay?
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 22, 2014, 12:15:51 PM
Do you think there's any chance of getting tickets at the game?
I'm tempted to go up as it's on quite early
In 2008 I stayed around town after the game but is it a nightmare getting out of the place?
If I wanted to leave in a hurry towards Dublin would I be best to park miles away and walk down the Dublin road big hill?
Could be a long way back up it
I presume BBC can't show the replay?
Was just on gaa.tickets.ie - still tickets available for the terraced area so I'd imagine you'll have no bother picking them up in the marshes. I'm intending to do that myself
It looks like rain and the wife has plans for 9pm so I might have to leave it.
Gone are my days of being superstitious that my attendance decides the outcome.
Anyone want to risk picking Mickey's team tonight?
At least Suarez is out so that's one name we wont see
I expect the same FF line and maybe McGinley at wing back and Clarke at FB with Justy starting
Clarke's lack of pace and slow turning ability could be well targeted by that wee beardy Willow the Wisp
I take is there will be no big Club Tyrone night tonight to announce the team
See a lot of newspaper articles saying Joe McMahon is available / was added to squad last day out - anyone know what the story is?
I thought he had done his calf in.
Quote from: tyroneman on May 22, 2014, 05:32:54 PM
See a lot of newspaper articles saying Joe McMahon is available / was added to squad last day out - anyone know what the story is?
I thought he had done his calf in.
Tyrone need to slaughter a few sacred cows if they are to win on Saturday.
Team to be announced on Tyrone website@ 8.30pm Friday apparently.
Less time for blood pressures to rise I guess going by the last announcement ::)
Last Sunday threw up as many selection problems for McCartan as Harte, will either of the Johnsons start? do you keep Benny on the bench or bring him on, similar with Ambrose. Is Dan Gordon any closer to contributing some game time. Does he keep Madine in Ff or bring him out the field where he was more effective. Who starts in midfield? Id hazard a guess at
McVeigh
R Johnson
McArdle
Garvey
Rooney
Carr
Boyle
McKernan
Turley
Madine
Poland
Maginn
Laverty
Rodgers
O'Hare
I finally got around to watching the match again last night or at least the second half. Some of the defending for Tyrone is just unreal. One time I counted 7 men back and Poland passed and ran on and nobody followed him. Schoolboy stuff time and again. I presume they watch videos of it afterwards.
I see Brolly in the GL is heaping praise on Block for steadying the ship. He also praises Sean after saying how the big man rarely goes down in his own box.
I would say Down will have less fear and more belief this weekend. I still think they'll come up short this time though.
I wonder will Maginn be so abrasive this time as he could have been sent to the line much faster last Sunday. Even before the penalty.
There's no team like Down with their dander up. Always been like that since I can remember.
Is the unusual late team announcement a sign that mickeys just not sure about his choices anymore???
Quote from: WT4E on May 22, 2014, 11:49:36 PM
Is the unusual late team announcement a sign that mickeys just not sure about his choices anymore???
I believe he just draws lots these days ;)
Quote from: ONeill on May 22, 2014, 09:57:05 PM
There's no team like Down with their dander up. Always been like that since I can remember.
Just that cool confidence the Mournemen have when they know they are going to win.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 22, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
I finally got around to watching the match again last night or at least the second half. Some of the defending for Tyrone is just unreal. One time I counted 7 men back and Poland passed and ran on and nobody followed him. Schoolboy stuff time and again. I presume they watch videos of it afterwards.
I see Brolly in the GL is heaping praise on Block for steadying the ship. He also praises Sean after saying how the big man rarely goes down in his own box.
I would say Down will have less fear and more belief this weekend. I still think they'll come up short this time though.
I wonder will Maginn be so abrasive this time as he could have been sent to the line much faster last Sunday. Even before the penalty.
Thats the thing that cheeses me off as well - blanket defence being used and not one tackle being put in on the opposition while they score a point. Down were at it in the first half as well, almost looking for someone else to tackle for them.
Great interview with Mickey Linden - Legend.
In light of the Mickey Harte comments on here, there are interesting points made about being discarded from the Down set up by Paddy O'Rourke.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2014/0517/sport/the-mournersquos-supreme-athlete-269024.html
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on May 23, 2014, 07:24:44 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 22, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
I finally got around to watching the match again last night or at least the second half. Some of the defending for Tyrone is just unreal. One time I counted 7 men back and Poland passed and ran on and nobody followed him. Schoolboy stuff time and again. I presume they watch videos of it afterwards.
I see Brolly in the GL is heaping praise on Block for steadying the ship. He also praises Sean after saying how the big man rarely goes down in his own box.
I would say Down will have less fear and more belief this weekend. I still think they'll come up short this time though.
I wonder will Maginn be so abrasive this time as he could have been sent to the line much faster last Sunday. Even before the penalty.
Thats the thing that cheeses me off as well - blanket defence being used and not one tackle being put in on the opposition while they score a point. Down were at it in the first half as well, almost looking for someone else to tackle for them.
The was an couple of examples in the second half of Tyrone defending which summed up the old and the new. Johnstone, i think, on 3 occasions was carrying the ball on the left wing. On the first two occasions the was chased by Matty Donnelly and then Peter Harte, they both ran alongside him, tapping him with the near hand attempting no real tackle as he made 40 or 50 yeards progress. A few minutes later the same player was in possession again and Conor Gormley was the defender. He jockeyed him, made a well timed, hard tackle and came away with the ball, at a crucial time. Gormely shouldnt have had the pace of Harte or Donnelly but his understanding of the art of tackling was much superior. I think this exemplifies part of the problem our defence faces - we can still get back in numbers but the tackling isnt as effective as it has been in the past.
had a look at the guides, definitely not on the box lads?
Has all the makings of a facinating macth for the newt-eerls
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 23, 2014, 08:55:50 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on May 23, 2014, 07:24:44 AM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 22, 2014, 09:23:52 PM
I finally got around to watching the match again last night or at least the second half. Some of the defending for Tyrone is just unreal. One time I counted 7 men back and Poland passed and ran on and nobody followed him. Schoolboy stuff time and again. I presume they watch videos of it afterwards.
I see Brolly in the GL is heaping praise on Block for steadying the ship. He also praises Sean after saying how the big man rarely goes down in his own box.
I would say Down will have less fear and more belief this weekend. I still think they'll come up short this time though.
I wonder will Maginn be so abrasive this time as he could have been sent to the line much faster last Sunday. Even before the penalty.
Thats the thing that cheeses me off as well - blanket defence being used and not one tackle being put in on the opposition while they score a point. Down were at it in the first half as well, almost looking for someone else to tackle for them.
The was an couple of examples in the second half of Tyrone defending which summed up the old and the new. Johnstone, i think, on 3 occasions was carrying the ball on the left wing. On the first two occasions the was chased by Matty Donnelly and then Peter Harte, they both ran alongside him, tapping him with the near hand attempting no real tackle as he made 40 or 50 yeards progress. A few minutes later the same player was in possession again and Conor Gormley was the defender. He jockeyed him, made a well timed, hard tackle and came away with the ball, at a crucial time. Gormely shouldnt have had the pace of Harte or Donnelly but his understanding of the art of tackling was much superior. I think this exemplifies part of the problem our defence faces - we can still get back in numbers but the tackling isnt as effective as it has been in the past.
Bring back Paddy Tally!!!!
This is what amazes me lads
You've all these development squads and coaches and GAA camps etc etc and here we have our best 6 defenders in the county and how many of them know how to tackle properly. How to jockey until the right moment. How not to dive in and when they should dive in?
I was actually impressed with McCrory for the first time ever last Sunday. Thought he kept Poland very quiet bar that point.
There is a massive lack of leadership in defence. Nobody eats the head of anybody if their man lets a man go. Nobody hits anybody hard or off the ball any more. I know I know Black card and all that.
Too much shite talked about sure positions mean nothing any more and your wing backs could be your top scorers. We've lost the run of ourselves.
Team for Saturday, you heard it here first.
1)Morgan
2)McCrory
3)Conor Gormley
4)Conor Clarke
5)McGinley
6)Justy
7)Peter Harte
8)Colm Cav
9)Matty Donnelly
10)Penrose
11)Sean Cavanagh
12)Mark Donnelly
13)McCurry
14)Coney
15)Ronan O'Neill
Quote from: Christmas Lights on May 23, 2014, 02:00:04 PM
Team for Saturday, you heard it here first.
1)Morgan
2)McCrory
3)Conor Gormley
4)Conor Clarke
5)McGinley
6)Justy
7)Peter Harte
8)Colm Cav
9)Matty Donnelly
10)Penrose
11)Sean Cavanagh
12)Mark Donnelly
13)McCurry
14)Coney
15)Ronan O'Neill
Penrose in midfield surely?
Quote from: Christmas Lights on May 23, 2014, 02:00:04 PM
Team for Saturday, you heard it here first.
1)Morgan
2)McCrory
3)Conor Gormley
4)Conor Clarke
5)McGinley
6)Justy
7)Peter Harte
8)Colm Cav
9)Matty Donnelly
10)Penrose
11)Sean Cavanagh
12)Mark Donnelly
13)McCurry
14)Coney
15)Ronan O'Neill
I'd be happy with that team if Mattie Donnelly and Sean Cavanagh were switched about.
I'd be happy with that team as well but I will be shocked if that's what he names.
I am not happy though with Conor Clarke and corner back. He's grand if he's marking a big man his own size and speed but at one stage on Sunday young Wilo the Wisp was on him and I feared more goals.
Am very disappointed no SON, No Dooher. No Patsy Kerlin.
Disillusioned.
Would be much happier with that team. Would like to see Sean thrown in at FF with Coney and McCurry feeding off the breaks for a couple of ten minute spells to see what results. Defence looks a lot more solid aswell. Be interesting to see if that team Iis correct.
Guarantee you he names same 15 - with only possibility of 1 or 2 of the subs coming in as replacements before throw in.
Remember Micky is smarter than everyone else! :P
Did any of ye see Joey on Sunday. He looked kinda on the heavy side
Would McNamee be in with a shout again? Is Full back his new position?
Down (SFC replay vs Tyrone): Brendan McVeigh; Daniel McCartan, Brendan McArdle, Ryan Boyle; Declan Rooney, Aidan Carr, Conor Garvey; Peter Turley, Ambrose Rogers; Conor Maginn, Mark Poland, Kevin McKernan; Donal O'Hare, Niall Madine, Conor Laverty
Hardly likely to start like that?
I was just thinking there is there not a rule against sledging now?
Just remembering a bit of verbal's going on between Coney & McCartan on several occasions and then once Coney actually left McCartan for dead one time but missed the eventual shot so McCartan sprang up immediately and started the verbal's to which Coney responded!
Should either or both not have got black carded?
Depend on the aggressiveness of the chat and whether the ref heard it. I doubt anyone will get a black card for that type of stuff this year though.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 23, 2014, 03:09:50 PM
I'd be happy with that team as well but I will be shocked if that's what he names.
I am not happy though with Conor Clarke and corner back. He's grand if he's marking a big man his own size and speed but at one stage on Sunday young Wilo the Wisp was on him and I feared more goals.
Am very disappointed no SON, No Dooher. No Patsy Kerlin.
Disillusioned.
I'd be happy enough with that myself. Don't share your reservations about Conor Clarke however - there are 6 or 7 other lads there at the minute who I have greater doubts about on recent evidence! He'd be number 8 on my doubt list!! ;)
I'm anticipating changes....
1 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin
3 – Danny McBride – An Srath Ban
4 – Barry Tierney – An Omaigh
5 – Ronan McNabb – An Droim Mhór
6 – Mattie Donnelly – Trí Leac
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh
9 – Conor Clarke – An Omaigh
10 – Patrick McNeice – Oileán a'Ghuail
11 – Sean Cavanagh (c) - An Mhaigh
12 – Ciaran McGinley – Aireagal Chiaráin
13 – Darren McCurry – Éadán na dTorc
14 – Niall McKenna – Domhnach Mór
15 – Kyle Coney – Ard Bó
Poor selection again this week.
Really not sure about this at all. Of course Mickey knows infinitely more than all of us combined but that team doesn't fill me with cconfidence at all. McBride was given the run around when Madine pulled out the field, couldn't cope with the fast runners. I am worried.
Christmas lights, sack your source.
Oh dear. ???
He's named last weeks programme team with only change being an injury. I think there'll be changes on the night.
Quote from: EC Unique on May 23, 2014, 09:05:30 PM
Poor selection again this week.
+1 not surprised. If Down finish the job this week I fear the most loyal of Mickey's supporter's may find it difficult to defend him.
And if they win well playing great football I suspect the critics won't give Harte much praise.
Quote from: WT4E on May 23, 2014, 03:23:36 PM
Guarantee you he names same 15 - with only possibility of 1 or 2 of the subs coming in as replacements before throw in.
Remember Micky is smarter than everyone else! :P
TOLD U SO!!! Lol
He's a strange man!!!! I wonder if everyone was saying I hope he plays the same team again would there be mass changes!!!!! :o
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 23, 2014, 09:14:54 PM
He's named last weeks programme team with only change being an injury. I think there'll be changes on the night.
Yip i would be very surprised if there wasnt 3 or 4 changes to both sides before throw in.
If that team starts, hunt him.
I'd say this team is in response to McCartan naming an unchanged team. I'd suggest there is a bit of arse boxing going on here.
You'll just have to wait till throw in to be sure. It's best to reserve judgement.
Minor game off
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 23, 2014, 09:21:36 PM
And if they win well playing great football I suspect the critics won't give Harte much praise.
I'm sticking by Mickey through thick & thin. Top manager.
Minor game postponed until June 21st.
I'm sorry lads but that team is a bloody disgrace. Whether or not that's who plays or not there is a huge lack of respect to Down, to the Tyrone fans who put a lot of money into Club Tyrone and to the players themselves.
If we named our strongest 15 and defended properly we wouldn't be playing any replay or messing with team selections or players careers. Ronan O'Neill must be wondering WTF is going in having scored 4.24 in the Tyrone league so far in 5 games is it. He's hardly a trouble maker is he.
Quote from: orangeman on May 23, 2014, 09:41:27 PM
Quote from: Aristo 60 on May 23, 2014, 09:40:28 PM
Minor game off
Tyrone v Monaghan ??
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0523/619299-owen-bannigan/
His son is on the Monaghan minor panel.
Calm lads. If Tyrone get bate tomorrow night, come on and blow a fuse if you want.
Wow. Just wow. Just f**king wow.
I will be there to witness ............ Genius or madness......
Arseboxification
Quote from: Redhand Santa on May 23, 2014, 09:14:54 PM
He's named last weeks programme team with only change being an injury. I think there'll be changes on the night.
Oh lordie lordie i hope to f..k your right. If he fields that and gets beat. Not even you could defend it.
Quote from: tyroneboi on May 23, 2014, 09:02:39 PM
1 – Niall Morgan – Éadan na dTorc
2 – Aidan McCrory – Aireagal Chiaráin
3 – Danny McBride – An Srath Ban
4 – Barry Tierney – An Omaigh
5 – Ronan McNabb – An Droim Mhór
6 – Mattie Donnelly – Trí Leac
7 – Peter Harte – Aireagal Chiaráin
8 – Colm Cavanagh – An Mhaigh
9 – Conor Clarke – An Omaigh
10 – Patrick McNeice – Oileán a'Ghuail
11 – Sean Cavanagh (c) - An Mhaigh
12 – Ciaran McGinley – Aireagal Chiaráin
13 – Darren McCurry – Éadán na dTorc
14 – Niall McKenna – Domhnach Mór
15 – Kyle Coney – Ard Bó
Surely that team wont start. Expect at least 4 changes, namely mcbride, tierney, mcniece and mckenna. If that team does start I fear Mickey may have actually lost the plot. Its okay to say ah sure maybe these guys were playing well in training but we all seen what they were like last week (apart from mcniece) and everyone could see they are just not up to it.
Lads where is the east terrace in pairc esler?
I'm not being argumentative or shit stirring but honestly lads, at what stage do you draw the line with Mickey.
We all know he's came through a hard few years but the facts are he named that team for Sunday and we were all perplexed.
Now some of us predicted that he'd do this as he's got so stubborn.
No matter if they win or lose it just shows a lot about the mans state of mind I think. A big change from his 03 and 05 days when he valued all players opinions etc
If the defence gets tighter to thier men and the forwards don't waste thier chances that team named can
only improve. Simples.
Justy has played 4 league games for Omagh and looked in good touch there for the last 10 minutes on Sunday. He needs to start. I would have the block on as well. That man is required for what I think will be a feisty atmosphere. Jesus our defence is getting ripped open. Lets hope that team is mind games.
Mickey does not usually favour late changes but James does. Perhaps they will both surprise us tomorrow. Morgan's return will be a big boost for Tyrone, as O'Neill, although he had little chance with the three goals, struggled badly with his kick-outs. Against that, a packed Pairc Esler is a difficult place to go. It may not hit the heights of 2008 but it should be quite a night.
Tyroneman I agree with a lot of what you say. The previous 2 pages have been filled with all loads of dung being talked about Mickey and his decisions. For me, he probably is the best option. But for the people that continually throw out "sure who would do any better" argument, thats a ridiculous way to look at things. My problem with the whole thing is as follows.
Mickey runs the show, top to bottom. In any walk of life this can only be bad. He alone will decide when he packs it in. That is bullshit. Nothing happens of any substance regarding football in the county, without his say so. Again, total BS. He is accountable to nobody but himself. We are the only county in the country that operates this way ( with perhaps the exception of Donegal). I also think, we just dont simply have the players that we had 5 to 8 years ago. I dont like the way we are heading though....
ReplyQuoteNotify
I put this up on March 9th , wasn't received well. It's cancerous for one person to have as much power as he has. That applies to any walk of life, be it business or sporting.
Some of the melodramatic reactions here are embarrassing. It's a team selection that in all likelihood will not come tofrfruition tomorrow evening.
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 24, 2014, 12:06:13 AM
Some of the melodramatic reactions here are embarrassing. It's a team selection that in all likelihood will not come tofrfruition tomorrow evening.
Omagh_gael how sure would you be that Mickey won't put that team out ? Mickey was of the opinion last week that a similar team was enough to beat Down. By changing it for this week it would be an admission he got it wrong last week and that just can't happen in Mickey's world.
Cannot see either team starting as selected. About 4 changes each I would think. McMahon and Gormley will have to come into defence for Tyrone and surely if McNeice got injured last week it is a risk to play him. Ryan Johnston has to start for Down after the way he played last week
Quote from: Throw ball on May 24, 2014, 12:57:23 AM
Cannot see either team starting as selected. About 4 changes each I would think. McMahon and Gormley will have to come into defence for Tyrone and surely if McNeice got injured last week it is a risk to play him. Ryan Johnston has to start for Down after the way he played last week
1 change maximum for tyrone and it'll prob not be one of the ones you would think of, Micky has an attitude problem!!!
Any stateside posters know if this game is available anywhere? Not on RTE now mean it's not on at all?
I still see Tyrone just shading this. unfortunately I'm in Spain so gutted not to be in newry tonight. any links for watching or listening to this greatly appreciated. hope the good folk of Down fill esler and show the ulster council what they have been missing with drawing us away every ffin year. Come on Down tear into them. Down are too inconsistent to have any confidence of this game, but enjoy it if your head in to it. just to show how crazy the provincials are, after tonight Down and Tyrone will have played as many games as it will take either cork or Kerry to reach an all Ireland qf and the winner will still have to play 3 more tough games to get that far. but we love our uster championship. Best of luck Down
Quote from: Mr. Nakata on May 23, 2014, 11:14:33 PM
Justy has played 4 league games for Omagh and looked in good touch there for the last 10 minutes on Sunday. He needs to start. I would have the block on as well. That man is required for what I think will be a feisty atmosphere. Jesus our defence is getting ripped open. Lets hope that team is mind games.
I still think that this team is good enough to beat Down and if it's not, then championship is still on through the back door. Either way I expect to see Tyrone in Croke Park in August, if that means using our older players like Gormley and Justy who are more likely to pick up injuries a bit more sparingly in May then so be it.
The thing is that the majority of people giving out the most won't even bother going to newry to see the game. They'll say they won't go cause it's a bad team , the weather etc. Harte has put a lot into Tyrone football and deserves a bit more respect than he's getting. I'm not happy with the team at all but suspect there'll be changes.
A lot of the boys we all want on haven't played much all year so may not be up to 70 minutes and Harte prefers finishing with his strongest team. Doesn't explain the Ronan oneill omission though .
Really looking forward to the game. Will be a great atmosphere in newry and I think a fairly high scoring encounter. Hopefully an enjoyable game with Tyrone coming out on the right side.
Apologies, probably asked and answered already, but is this on BBC tonight?
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 24, 2014, 09:59:02 AM
Apologies, probably asked and answered already, but is this on BBC tonight?
no, not televised at all.
I think Down smell blood tonight, Ive a feeling more of the tyrone players are under pressure to perform, especially from their own supporters, the crowd in newry will be 100% behind Down. I wonder who will be asked to pick up Cavanagh? Garvey prehaps? he done a fantastic job on Declan OSullivan in 2010, he might be the man to keep him quiet.
Is this game on TV?
Case for the defence.
Tyrone's defence is problematic and a sign of the times, according to RTÉ analyst Colm O'Rourke.
Speaking ahead of this weekend's senior football action, including the replay between Tyrone and Down, O'Rourke said Down's remarkable comeback last weekend meant that power had shifted between the counties, but suggested Tyrone's problems stemmed from an insecure defence.
"There's no doubt that the power has shifted," O'Rourke told RTÉ. "But in saying that, Tyrone were the better team for quite a part of the game, and probably should have been out of sight.
"Their big problem is their defence. It was a problem during the league. It's not something you would associate with Tyrone in the past, who were the authors of the sweeper system – and sometimes two or three sweepers when the likes of Brian Dooher were around.
"It was a real sign of the times when they had to go back for the likes of Conor Gormley and Justin McMahon."
However, O'Rourke dismissed the notion that Down would start the replay as favourites. He said Tyrone would have been shocked by the game, and that he expected them to respond.
odds for tonights match are down 9/4 v tyrone 4/9 another draw 8/1. I reckon down+3 at 10/11 is a good bet. niall madine 1st goal @9/1.
I watched the second half and the analysis on RTE last night. The foul on big Sean at the end was just unreal.
It clearly shows Sean trying to wriggle free of his man and another Down player at least 3 times with Coldrick about 10 yards away watching it all but doing nothing until he's finally dragged down. Brolly said it was definitely a foul but then goes on a rant about how it was a dive and how if you put a hand on him he flies through the air. In fairness to Toma's OShea he didn't look impressed by Brolly who keeps pointing at Lyster and across O'Se chest. Some might laugh it all of but but there us nobody standing up for Sean or Tyrone's side if the story as Mickey has everyone under pressure not to talk to RTE.
Now the president has spoken out against him (wrongly) in mist peoples eyes yet its still more bad press for us.
Whether we agree or not the National media has us labeled as divers, whingers about the rules and cynical as with last years tactics.
I won't be going today cos I've four young kids and my wife is going out tonight so I had my fun last weekend.
I won't get peace to watch the CL final either as it's bedtime from 7.30 til 9 in our house.
You can understand then that when my time is so precious that when I DO manage to get to a Tyrone game these days that it would be nice to see our best 15 players on the pitch rather than in the stand with a grumpy face.
I
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 24, 2014, 12:02:26 PM
I watched the second half and the analysis on RTE last night. The foul on big Sean at the end was just unreal.
It clearly shows Sean trying to wriggle free of his man and another Down player at least 3 times with Coldrick about 10 yards away watching it all but doing nothing until he's finally dragged down. Brolly said it was definitely a foul but then goes on a rant about how it was a dive and how if you put a hand on him he flies through the air. In fairness to Toma's OShea he didn't look impressed by Brolly who keeps pointing at Lyster and across O'Se chest. Some might laugh it all of but but there us nobody standing up for Sean or Tyrone's side if the story as Mickey has everyone under pressure not to talk to RTE.
Now the president has spoken out against him (wrongly) in mist peoples eyes yet its still more bad press for us.
Whether we agree or not the National media has us labeled as divers, whingers about the rules and cynical as with last years tactics.
I won't be going today cos I've four young kids and my wife is going out tonight so I had my fun last weekend.
I won't get peace to watch the CL final either as it's bedtime from 7.30 til 9 in our house.
You can understand then that when my time is so precious that when I DO manage to get to a Tyrone game these days that it would be nice to see our best 15 players on the pitch rather than in the stand with a grumpy face.
I
was the referee right to award that free kick at the end. the sideline hadn't been taken therefore the ball was still out of play. if in theory a goalkeeper is waiting to take a kick out and the full forward at the other end of the field is being pulled and hauled can the ref give a free in without the kick out ever being taken?
and secondly can a 45 be moved forward? just wondering.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 24, 2014, 01:20:28 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 24, 2014, 12:02:26 PM
I watched the second half and the analysis on RTE last night. The foul on big Sean at the end was just unreal.
It clearly shows Sean trying to wriggle free of his man and another Down player at least 3 times with Coldrick about 10 yards away watching it all but doing nothing until he's finally dragged down. Brolly said it was definitely a foul but then goes on a rant about how it was a dive and how if you put a hand on him he flies through the air. In fairness to Toma's OShea he didn't look impressed by Brolly who keeps pointing at Lyster and across O'Se chest. Some might laugh it all of but but there us nobody standing up for Sean or Tyrone's side if the story as Mickey has everyone under pressure not to talk to RTE.
Now the president has spoken out against him (wrongly) in mist peoples eyes yet its still more bad press for us.
Whether we agree or not the National media has us labeled as divers, whingers about the rules and cynical as with last years tactics.
I won't be going today cos I've four young kids and my wife is going out tonight so I had my fun last weekend.
I won't get peace to watch the CL final either as it's bedtime from 7.30 til 9 in our house.
You can understand then that when my time is so precious that when I DO manage to get to a Tyrone game these days that it would be nice to see our best 15 players on the pitch rather than in the stand with a grumpy face.
I
was the referee right to award that free kick at the end. the sideline hadn't been taken therefore the ball was still out of play.
1) if in theory a goalkeeper is waiting to take a kick out and the full forward at the other end of the field is being pulled and hauled can the ref give a free in without the kick out ever being taken?
2)and secondly can a 45 be moved forward? just wondering.
Interesting, could someone also answer this one
3) before throw in referee spots the FB foul the FF on the 21, free in?
Tyrone to hockey Down,Down's 1st 40 minutes or so last week was one of the worst i've seen in the province in the past decade. They were then handed a lifeline and still threw it away. Tyrone to easily beat the handicap i'd suspect
When a team plays the ball over the sideline, a free kick from the hand(s) shall be awarded to the opposing team from outside the boundary line from the place where the ball crossed the sideline
If it is defined as a free kick...then surely it can be movied up......
Would be supported by:
For an opposing player to be nearer than 13m to the ball before a free kick or a sideline kick is taken.
PENALTY - Free kick 13m more advantageous than place of original kick -up to opponents' 13m line.
After the Tyrone keeper was black carded last week when Down were taking the penalty the keeper should not have been replaced until after the next break in play, technically Tyrone had one too many players on the field.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on May 24, 2014, 02:59:55 PM
After the Tyrone keeper was black carded last week when Down were taking the penalty the keeper should not have been replaced until after the next break in play, technically Tyrone had one too many players on the field.
That rule doesn't apply to keepers - just outfield players!
Just heading off to Newry here lads - visa stamped at the last minute - anyone with a spare ticket?- stand preferred as knee dodgy but will take a terrace.
Lucky you CD. Enjoy the game.
Here's hoping Tony Donnelly talked some sense into Mickey and we see Clarke out of MF, Justy and Block starting and RoN playing at some stage.
Full back needs an experienced no nonsense player who can be relied on. Its not like other positions where you can chop and change every match. Name me another county that does this.
What radio channel is it on?
RTE Radio 1 and Radio Ulster MW i think
In Manchester. Not much talk about the game here unless Down are the red devils.
5 changes to tyrone team justy and three ronans and mark donnelly
ONeill,
you didn't happen to be walking past Deansgate tesco an hour ago?
lol
can't see this game scheduled for radio commentary. will I be able to get it online outside of Ireland. could someone post a link.thanks
Bring a couple of layers. Cold in the stand!!! Brrrr
http://www.liveradio.fm/#!live/radios/q1012
Any were online to see the game ?
Dan Gordon in midfield and Ryan Johnston in.
Ronan O'Neill amongst 4 changes in the Tyrone team.
"can't see this game scheduled for radio commentary. will I be able to get it online outside of Ireland. could someone post a link.thanks"
streaming on rte radio 1 - Dan Gordon playing mid field for Down - Massive Tyrone changs
In England, listening via BBC NI sport page
Penalty from 1st attack.wow
Penalty for Down, saved by Morgan.
Some start
If anyone could see me
I have one kid watching the Lego movie on one laptop and the wee cutty watching sleeping beauty on the other laptop
I've got RTE radio one on sky on the TV
Hopefully the wife won't bring the other two kids home til full time
Interesting Emmet McKenna gets another chance
Sounds like a full house
Don't think so.Nothing mentioned. Mind you when Tommy Carr opens his mouth i kinda switch off
RON point after he got a belt said MM
Another RON point now.
A free u think
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 23, 2014, 11:06:45 PM
I'm not being argumentative or shit stirring but honestly lads, at what stage do you draw the line with Mickey.
We all know he's came through a hard few years but the facts are he named that team for Sunday and we were all perplexed.
Now some of us predicted that he'd do this as he's got so stubborn.
No matter if they win or lose it just shows a lot about the mans state of mind I think. A big change from his 03 and 05 days when he valued all players opinions etc
4 changes to the orginal team , you were quick getting the knife out
I was indeed but why could he not just swallow his pride and name his best team. Clarke at MF was terrible last Sunday
Sounds like we're playing well.
RON showing already that he's our best forward and should have played last week.
1.05 to 0.03
C.McGinley toe poke
Sounds like its very heated and much more lively than last week
Could someone post the two teams that started?
http://m.rte.ie/sport/touch/gaa/2014/0524/619411-saturdays-gaa-action/ (http://m.rte.ie/sport/touch/gaa/2014/0524/619411-saturdays-gaa-action/)
1.06 to 0.06
Sounds better than it is. Poor enough game. Conor lavery looking like ronaldo at a point. Worse dive ive ever seen on a gaelic pitch on 24 mins. Tyrone too slow in midfield. Oneill and mccurry frustrated.
Go on McGinley!!
Fair play to mcginley I doubted him and I was wrong. Takes a good player to score two majors in inter county championship!!!
Any fight left in Down or are Tyrone going to win pulling up?
Good man Mickey
I never doubted ye
McGinley the star
Well done to Mickey this evening made the right changes at the right times . Great result.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 24, 2014, 08:07:36 PM
Well done to Mickey this evening made the right changes at the right times . Great result.
You're some man..you had micky roaded all week
So you aren't for sacking him tonight Bill?
Rumours of our demise greatly exaggerated ... now for Donegal to beat the inbreds tomorrow and it will be a good weekend
Quote from: J OGorman on May 24, 2014, 08:10:17 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 24, 2014, 08:07:36 PM
Well done to Mickey this evening made the right changes at the right times . Great result.
You're some man..you had micky roaded all week
Still would but in fairness he made the right changes this week. No excuse for him last week thou.
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 24, 2014, 08:15:34 PM
Quote from: J OGorman on May 24, 2014, 08:10:17 PM
Quote from: SkillfulBill on May 24, 2014, 08:07:36 PM
Well done to Mickey this evening made the right changes at the right times . Great result.
You're some man..you had micky roaded all week
Still would but in fairness he made the right changes this week. No excuse for him last week thou.
gh
What happened to fortress Newry? Down players tried hard but they just don't have the players. :(
Th'on Harte hasn't a clue!!!!! ::)
One large bag of swagger reported missing in Newry.....
Will there be highlights on the website tonight I wonder.
You certainly wouldn't have expected McGinley to score 2.01 tonight. If we're all being honest most if us would have dropped him or played him wing back
How did Niall McK play when he came on?
I didn't really get to listen to the second half very well
Was Clarke MF today?
I still can't see us beating Monaghan in Clones even though we've two games under our belt now
At least they won't have McManus who would now love playing against our defence
That was a classic performance by the lads, the desire shown by both teams show why the Ulster championship is one of the best provincial championships. I would give Micky Harte a nighthood, but why did he take Coney off?? I thought he was doing great even when double marked.
Well done Mickey, i never doubted you, never, not for a moment, always had the faith, well done, good man Mickey see you in Clones.
I think I'm going to book my hotel for the All Ireland final! ;D
Big Dan was a menace all night for Down. Glad he didn have his kickin boots on.
Best team won. Down management lost this game, completely wrong tactics, juvenile defending high balls played in on top of Conor Laverty,ging him no chance. Every time got a low ball played in he toreTyrone apart, and eted scores.
A much improved performance and despite getting to the semis last year I enjoyed that more than most wins in recent years. Felt like a proper championship game and plenty of scores. The older boys shore up the defence considerably. Mcnabb also helped.
It's obvious Harte is trying to manage the likes of o'neill gormley justy mcnabb etc to try and get them fit for the height of summer.
Thought Marie Donnelly and Harte were very good as well as mcrory. Mcginley finished the goals really well and we could have had a few more. Cavanagh missed a lot. McKenna did really well coming on. That'll keep some of the know all's quiet for another few weeks.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 24, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
Will there be highlights on the website tonight I wonder.
You certainly wouldn't have expected McGinley to score 2.01 tonight. If we're all being honest most if us would have dropped him or played him wing back
How did Niall McK play when he came on?
I didn't really get to listen to the second half very well
Was Clarke MF today?
I still can't see us beating Monaghan in Clones even though we've two games under our belt now
At least they won't have McManus who would now love playing against our defence
McGinley had a strange game Fuzz - took his second goal and point well but dropped the ball, was indecisive around midfield and launched a few Down attacks. The crowd were actually getting on his back quite a bit. He tends to drop his head and forget about runners and was caught sleeping 4/5 times in the first half. Also hit a couple of poor wides. That said, the 1-1 he scored right after half time were clinical and really ended the contest.
McKenna played well when he came on although the game was over. Tyrone's best player over the 70 minutes was arguably Colin Cavanagh with special mentions for Matty Donnelly, Justy and Conor Clarke. Clarke played all over midfield, CHB and FB at times. Conor Gormley and Stevie were introduced at half time and both played really well.
Much better than last week but still huge doubts over the performances of a number of players - RON had a good first half but all threen lads in the FF line were starved of decent ball for long periods.
Still, the first win or two of a campaign are often ropey - we certainly aren't peaking too soon, that's for sure.
no complaints tonight, better team won. tyrone got the goals at vital times and killed the game off. the boys gave everything but we were always chasing the game and tyrone were able to pick us off at ease. a penalty, a 45, a free in front of the posts, all chances that were missed by down but clinically finished at the other end.
Quote from: BartSimpson on May 24, 2014, 08:45:35 PM
That was a classic performance by the lads, the desire shown by both teams show why the Ulster championship is one of the best provincial championships. I would give Micky Harte a nighthood, but why did he take Coney off?? I thought he was doing great even when double marked.
Because in the second half he got 3 balls played into him and he dropped each one. The 4th ball he managed to hold but then dropped it short into the keepers hands. He rightly got the curly finger shortly after. Wasn't a good night at the office for Kyle but worth persisting him IMO.
Those who were going OTT about last week and this week's team should have kept the powder dry and waited on the outcome of tonight's match.
Well done Mickey, backroom team and the players. The 8 point winning margin didn't flatter Tyrone - it could have been a bigger margin.
Good win for Tyrone, we had somewhere close to our best team on at the start of the second half, Mickey made the right calls taking off E. McKenna and McNamee. Thought Colm Cavanagh got through an immense about of work along with Mattie and Clarke was much improved. Good to see us creating goal chances, Cavanagh and Harte had 2 chances each that weren't put away. McKenna done well when he came on, set up the chance that lead to the penalty and took a good score. McGinley showed today he is well worth his place on the team with 2 well taken goals. Justy and McNabb should keep their places in the defence, both gave assured performances. Another step up needed for Clones.
That's the thing -tyrone won comfortably, missed a bagfull really and a few players were poor enough. If they do click, then we could be in croker in late august again. Here's hoping.
Hope Tyrone go on to win Ulster this year so we can avoid the hoors in the backdoor.
Firstly I'm delighted that we won so convincingly as it sounded like a hostile atmosphere and we didn't allow them to get back their swagger.
Some of ye seem to think that those of us who were questioning Mickey actually thought we wanted our team to lose tonight.
The fact that Mickey made such drastic changes before the game showed that he had the balls to admit he got his team selection wrong last weekend.
To play RON at FF was very interesting after not even giving him a run out last week.
I'm not in the business of silly point scoring or saying haha look I told you so. I want Mickey to be picking his best team for every game and not be doing things out of spite or Stubbornness.
We put up a big score again tonight without our FF line getting a lot of scores. I just hope he stops tinkering with the team now and especially let's the defence settle down and get used to playing with each other.
Come on the red hand defenders :o
Thon oul Gormley boy that came on for Tyrone has a bit of football left in him yet
Much improved performance tonight- what I was expecting in Omagh. For the first time all season Tyrone seemed to have some form of system in defence. The addition of Justin McMahon was a big boost and Ronan McNabb impressed.
If Tyrone can move the ball a little bit more directly into the full forward line then they can do damage in the championship. Let's just hope last Sunday was a wake up call and the lessons are learnt!
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 24, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
How did Niall McK play when he came on?
I didn't really get to listen to the second half very well...
I still can't see us beating Monaghan in Clones even though we've two games under our belt now
At least they won't have McManus who would now love playing against our defence
Niall McK was very impressive when he came on. McGinley had a very impressive spell too at the start of the second half.
As regards the next one, it's the opposition we (Monaghan) expected. And yes it'll be unfortunate that we don't have a full hand, but hey, shit happens. But I don't think we'll be as porous as Down tonight. McCartan (substituted) was one of their better defenders, but the set up was all wrong.
Cmon Tyrone, yer on yer own.
Hard to win Ulster ain't it. Kerry would be preparing for an AI QF now.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 24, 2014, 10:53:00 PM
Hope Tyrone go on to win Ulster this year so we can avoid the hoors in the backdoor.
We'll probably be playing Tyrone in the Connacht final somehow.
Would not get too carried away if I was a Tyrone man. Down have lost some amount of top players over the last while and are no great team. Monaghan will be a tougher ask but are missing McManus at least. The winners of that should make Ulster final. Can't see them going much further though.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 25, 2014, 01:31:52 AM
Would not get too carried away if I was a Tyrone man. Down have lost some amount of top players over the last while and are no great team. Monaghan will be a tougher ask but are missing McManus at least. The winners of that should make Ulster final. Can't see them going much further though.
There haven't been too many Tyrone men on here getting carried away! As pessimistic, realistic and cautious as I can remember.
Mc Manus is a huge blow for Ulster GAA fans - at the end of the day , when you go to watch these games you want to see the best players out there and McManus is a fabulous player.
Great result last night for us. I'm sure there are a few keyboard warriors a little sheepish today. There wasn't a chance that the team named was going to start.
That's two tough games under the belt now with three weeks to rest the bones before a massive clash with Monaghan. It sounded like we have started to tighten up in defence and win a whole pile more possession in midfield.
Couldn't make the game last night due to work but how'd Stephen O'Neill fare further out the field?
Quote from: omagh_gael on May 25, 2014, 07:24:49 AM
Great result last night for us. I'm sure there are a few keyboard warriors a little sheepish today. There wasn't a chance that the team named was going to start.
That's two tough games under the belt now with three weeks to rest the bones before a massive clash with Monaghan. It sounded like we have started to tighten up in defence and win a whole pile more possession in midfield.
Couldn't make the game last night due to work but how'd Stephen O'Neill fare further out the field?
He did well Gael. Got the ball inside much faster than in the first half and with great accuracy - a few brilliant passes - I only wish he could be on the end of them as well. Always a wee bit worried about his arm position when he's tackling!!
At the other end, Gormley was first class - you always know exactly what you're going to get with him.
Quote from: Throw ball on May 25, 2014, 01:31:52 AM
Would not get too carried away if I was a Tyrone man. Down have lost some amount of top players over the last while and are no great team. Monaghan will be a tougher ask but are missing McManus at least. The winners of that should make Ulster final. Can't see them going much further though.
Yes all the lads who wanted Mickey sacked now think we'll win the All Ireland. ::)
Will Big Joe get back to fitness this season or is he out for the forseeable future? He can play anywhere but he'd be some addition in defence if fully fit.
A few observations from the game.....
Morgan is invaluable. His free taking and, even more importantly, his kick outs were first class. I would be a bit wary of his sojourns up the pitch though. Might need to reign those in a bit as he was almost at half way with the ball on one run.
Sean Cav has one of his poorer games for most of last night. Hitting the bar with just the keeper to beat. Putting easy chances wide, turning over the ball and making a lot of silly decisions. BUT like all great players he kept looking for the ball, working hard and won some solid possession to keep Downs comeback in check.
Colm Cav was immense. Put some shift in. He has quietly gone from a very hit and miss player to being a key cog in this Tyrone machine.
Clarke was much improved. Roamed all over the diamond. Now if we could get him using that WWF physique a bit more.....
McNabb played well. Won ball in front of his man and linked play.
Harte drove the team on. When on form he is very hard to stop during a run. Still divides the support though as I heard some fairly uncomplimentary views being expressed in the crowd. IMHO well worth his place on tonight's showing
Forward line were...ok. RoN the pick. Shame he doesn't have just a little more pace but he played like a man proving a point to MH. Coney was subdued. Rushed shots and took wrong options. McCurry battled hard. Good free taking including another monster from the sideline but needs to start scoring from play.
McGinley is a curates egg. Took the scores well. Very very athletic. It looks like he is on fast forward when chasing players down. Still prone to poor passing though. With more work he could be a real prospect.
McCrory has now effectively shut down one of the best playmakers in football. Twice. Well done that fella.
McNamee. Not much to say. An upgrade on Tierney.
McKenna wasn't much to write home about. Still a place there for Joe if he ever gets fit.
The vets......do exactly what they need to do. SoN worked his ass off and played some lovely passes in. Justy was composed and gave real stability at the back. Block was...block. I don't think I have ever seen him have less than an 7/10 game. Just did the small things right. And kept those around him on point.
On the other subs...McAliskey nailed a great point on introduction, Penrose worked hard and mcBride was game.
McAliskey always seems to be a fella who will get between 1-3 points a game but never cuts loose like Coney or mcCurry can. But when those two are off form those 1-3 points could be invaluable. With RoN in the mix it will be interesting to see who MH goes for against Monaghan.
The defence overall was much better. No isolated Mano a Mano type play. Plenty of cover in the centre.
All in all a great night out.
Had a nice chuckle at Newry 'rocking' to The boys are back in town.......they sure were.
In all seriousness though - No one in Tyrone should get carried away. We are by no means the finished article. But it's nice to be finally moving in the right direction.
Nothing wrong with that Tyroneman.
It'd be nice if Clarke, McGinley Coney could do a Colm Cavanagh - go from being hit or miss to being a key cog. I think all three will get there.
Cheers for that Tyroneman. Always good to get level of detail if you didn't get to see the game.
Any comment on the referee? Q101 giving out quite a bit about him. Seemed to be extremely card shy. Not that that is a bad thing but rather it seemed to be reffed completely differently to the previous week.
Only for Sean Cavanagh there would gave been no last night. He pulled The game out of the fire last Sunday. He got a lot of "treatment" over the 2 games.
(http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/w540/Library/SF250/870767.jpg)
Did anyone notice James trying to compete with Paddy O'Rourke along the sideline last night ?. James to be fair was jumping a lot higher than Paddy did ever did.
Mickey Harte could never do that. Horse not bad at it either.
Genius Mickey, to contrive two valuable games out of that to compensate for failing to make the League Final as we head into the first round proper of the Ulster (not to mention letting the Dubs scrape by us by the bare minimum). :)
Don't be afraid Monaghan, don't be very afraid at all! :D
Sláinte tyroneman, great summary.
Excellent read Tyrone man and exactly what I was looking for. It seems balanced and not OTT.
Who do you think is our best option at MF now?
Is Justy back to his old self and will he stay at FB?
Was McNamee struggling for fitness?
I hope we don't have to listen to the others fans all year harassing Morgan. Has he done anything to annoy them or is it just cos he takes his time and is successful.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2014, 10:49:16 AM
Excellent read Tyrone man and exactly what I was looking for. It seems balanced and not OTT.
Who do you think is our best option at MF now?
Is Justy back to his old self and will he stay at FB?
Was McNamee struggling for fitness?
I hope we don't have to listen to the others fans all year harassing Morgan. Has he done anything to annoy them or is it just cos he takes his time and is successful.
Morgan is certainly a talent, and will probably be the best around in next 5-10 years. Fans probably slag him over the length of time he takes and his apparent cockiness. In saying that most sides would love to have him!
No complaints from a down perspective better team won. Early penalty miss certainly would have helped us on our way but in the end probably wouldn't have made a difference. Thought our forward line of Laverty, Johnston and O'Hare looked sharp and caused Tyrone problems with their pace but unfortunately when chasing the game we resulted to pumping high balls into Laverty which Tyrone mopped up with ease. Mickey learnt from last weeks mistakes by bringing on the experience heads of Gormley and SON at half time to steady the ship after Down ended the first half strongly. Thought the Tyrone FF line were superb, McCurry doesn't seem to miss while Coney and RON completely roasted their markers. I don't like to be critical of individuals on public forums like this as they give a huge amount of effort and commitment to represent our county but if Dan McCartan and Ryan Boyle are the two best corner backs that down football has to offer then we are in a seriously bad place. Whether it be through arrogance or naivety down decided not to bother to mark McGinley-a fairly ordinary player ended the game with 2-01. Early days yet but I think the Tyrone forward line as a unit are probably the best there is in Ulster. Obviously you always want to see your county win but an early exit for down in the qualifiers might not be a bad thing-let the boys get back to playing uninterrupted club football and try to build towards next year.
Forgot to mention 2 players...
Matty D. Excellent. This lad will be a key player for years to come. Has everything. Physicality. Attitude. Work rate. Can score. Marked Coulter out of it. I remember him taking time out to build himself up for county football. He looks like he could run through brick walls now (a la Seamus mcCallan for those that remember that bit of commentary ;) )
Niall McKenna. He looked a completely different player last night. Whether he got a bit of a rocket midweek and upped his game or took advantage of a wet and tired marker I don't know but he was excellent when he came on. Took his score well. Out in front of his man.
Referee was a curates egg. Thought both penalties were harsh though Harte maybe a little unlucky to be denied one in first half. Did well to keep cards in pocket and although he fell for a few soft frees - on both sides - he didn't fall for much play acting in terms of faking injury.
I still don't think we have found our best defence and with MH seeming to have a lot of time for mcNamee there will be further permutations ahead. It's a real conundrum. Justy should be nailed on FB when fit Block is still the best pure defender in the county. Joe when fit is a Rolls Royce ...but we need the next gen to stand up and be counted now.
Last night some did and some were evidently still a bit short.
Would be tempted to stick with Clarke at MF. He needs a run in the one position. Having said that I was always surprised Justy has never got a run there as some would suggest he is the answer.
I also wonder why we don't use a traditional CHF in the playmaker role. For all his great strengths Sean is not that. For packed defences we need someone to thread a pass. Maybe Shea will come on more next year.....hope so..or RoN will move there.
Morgan will always get stick but this year it doesn't seem to affect him. To be fair he just got on with it. No response to the crowd other than over the bar and play on.
While I don't think we are AI contenders just yet the glass is def half full..
Last nights result was what I expected the first day out. The extra game will do Tyrone the world of good. I think quite a few men need to admit that Ciaran Mc Ginley has proved them wrong and is worthy of his place. I fully expect Tyrone to win the Ulster Championship.
Sometimes gambling's very easy :D
I think it's fair enough to question Mickey's selection and tactics the first day as ,unfortunately, we saw a different animal altogether last night. Tyroneman and others are right to highlight Morgan's contributions. I really like what he does and no Down supporter near us gave him a hard time as he moves the all round contribution of goalkeepers to the level beyond Cluxton.I expect Tyrone to be the last Ulster men standing-again- and Morgan will make the difference in August or even September.In contrast, Down have gone through three(yes,three) league and Ulster campaigns without scoring a 45- last night the otherwise excellent Madine was the latest to miss a long distance scorable free. Dublin, Cork or Mayo don't have three forwards with the talent of Coney or the O'Neills ,Matty Donnelly and Cavanaghs are also best in class so good luck to Tyrone.
QuoteDublin, Cork or Mayo don't have three forwards with the talent of Coney or the O'Neills ,Matty Donnelly and Cavanaghs are also best in class
Are you claiming Tyrone have the best forward line in Ireland?
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
QuoteDublin, Cork or Mayo don't have three forwards with the talent of Coney or the O'Neills ,Matty Donnelly and Cavanaghs are also best in class
Dublin certainly have.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Coney, RoN and mcCurry have plenty of potential but have yet to take the championship by storm.
Cork have too. There's a few counties who have forwards of more proven class, though Tyrone may have a very good forward unit in the making. However for now, Tyrone forwards aren't a patch on Dublin's and are bit behind a few more.
Quote from: Zulu on May 25, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
QuoteDublin, Cork or Mayo don't have three forwards with the talent of Coney or the O'Neills ,Matty Donnelly and Cavanaghs are also best in class
Are you claiming Tyrone have the best forward line in Ireland?
[/quote. ]. No.The three teams I mentioned have one or two very talented forwards but none have three IMO.
Connolly, Flynn, Alan Brogan, Bernard Brogan are all better forwards than anything Tyrone have. O'Gara, McManamon, Andrews, Kilkenny and Costello would all be as good as most of them. Hurley, O'Neill and Kelly are as good as anything Tyrone have, Hurley and O'Neill are probably better. Tyrone have some very talented forwards but you are rating them way too highly at the moment, Coney has done little or nothing at senior IC yet for example, I'm not sure he'd even make the Dublin team, he certainly wouldn't be a certain starter.
Hope you enjoyed Newry last night Zulu, for such a learned post! :P ;)
Only listened on the radio FOSB but I'll wait a while before elevating your boys to the best in the country ;)
Anyone saying that, after last night, Tyrone's forwards are better than Dublin or Cork's are absolutely fooling themselves. Coney was rightly hooked and McCurry got little ball. Ronan O'Neill looked lively. Dublin have Dean Rock on their bench, who I would make a starter in any other Intercounty team. You lads must be kidding.
Quote from: stibhan on May 25, 2014, 05:59:29 PM
Anyone saying that, after last night, Tyrone's forwards are better than Dublin or Cork's are absolutely fooling themselves. Coney was rightly hooked and McCurry got little ball. Ronan O'Neill looked lively. Dublin have Dean Rock on their bench, who I would make a starter in any other Intercounty team. You lads must be kidding.
Few in Tyrone would say they are the finished article. Certainly a way to go to rival Dublin's forward unit.
We just hope the potential is there to rival the Canavan-Mugsy-SoN-mcGinley era forward lines sometime in the (hopefully near) years to come
I feel I've been over negative the last week so I'm trying to look more on the positive side of things.
However I just don't get this talk about our forwards.
Yes I'm excited about their potential but they've not done much so far this season.
McCurry has not scored from play yet or has he whereas I expected him to have a good few.
Coney looked very scared last week of being tackled yet he did get a few great scores. RON oozes class and if given good early ball will thrive but Monaghan & Donegal will probably struggle. If we continue with the short hand passing I'd worry for these potentially good young forwards as they need it fast and early.
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 25, 2014, 07:58:39 PM
I feel I've been over negative the last week so I'm trying to look more on the positive side of things.
However I just don't get this talk about our forwards.
Yes I'm excited about their potential but they've not done much so far this season.
McCurry has not scored from play yet or has he whereas I expected him to have a good few.
Coney looked very scared last week of being tackled yet he did get a few great scores. RON oozes class and if given good early ball will thrive but Monaghan & Donegal will probably struggle. If we continue with the short hand passing I'd worry for these potentially good young forwards as they need it fast and early.
Jaysus Fuzzman, is this you being more positive? :o
Anyone got the stats for our scores from play so far?
I suppose watching Donegal puts me in that sorta form. >:(
Naw Fuzz its like me, that game practically put me to sleep the day, though i remember it for one piece of magic from Murphy on the sideline, knew he put in over even before he hit it, had a great view sitting directly behind when he hit it
I thought last night Harte and Donnelly had their best championship performances for tyrone. It was also good to see our defence get stuck in. Justy Mcnabb and gormley make a huge difference. Keeping them fit would go a long way to solving our problems there.
Still a lot of work to do but hopefully the 2 games have set the team up well for Monaghan. That's going to be a cracking game in 3 weeks. I think this tyrone team will develop a lot more through the front door in high profile high intensity championship games so it's very important to win it. If we could keep everyone fit I think there is a big summer in the team but it's a big if.
I assume Harte see's his best team something close to last night. As gormley gets fitter he will end up starting. Possibly for mcnamee. Number 10 jersey is up for grabs. At the minute penrose would be my pick. If big joe can get fit he'll take it. A fit Stevie oneill will probably come into the full forward line.
I just watched the highlights there and it looked very one sided. Down looked very poor and we looked sharp. Great finishing by McGinley for both goals and I think he does deserve his place if he can stay more focused on marking his man and not abandoning him when he passes and runs on.
Did anyone else notice how most tackles on big Sean were all very high and almost around the back of his neck. Is thus similar to what the Dubs were doing in the league?
Also noticed N.McKenna's man came over and stood on his heel after he scored that good point
Good to see Justy back playing well and staying fit
Down will be happier away from Ulster pressure cooker I think
Just watched the Sunday game - in real time I couldn't understand why the Down and Tyrone penalties were given. Looking at the replays I'm still struggling - the Tyrone penalty was never a penalty. Or am I missing something ?.
Quote from: orangeman on May 26, 2014, 12:29:59 AM
Just watched the Sunday game - in real time I couldn't understand why the Down and Tyrone penalties were given. Looking at the replays I'm still struggling - the Tyrone penalty was never a penalty. Or am I missing something ?.
Was at the game, behind the goals, a short distance, among Down and Tyrone supporters. None of the Tyronies, supporter or player, called for a peno. It was a very strange call by the ref.
It wasn't the deciding factor in the result. Tyrone were better.
The Down one looked like Petey was making a slight tackle but if you watch Mcginns feet, one seems to get clipped by Petey at the last second or else he trips on his own leg.
Justy was lucky not to concede a peno as had both hands around the forward.
We created a lot more goal chances and was glad McKenna looked good when he came on
Did Emmet McKenna do much?
People said that Tyrone FF line were very good but on SG RON was the only one who seemed to get any airtime. The others didn't feature at all did they?
On that - Why does SG go to the bother of showing extensive highlights of the games that were live on RTE that day and then show minimal highlights of the others! FRUSTRATING!
I thought Coney and McCurry were quiet enough. RON was unmarkable.
Is there any highlights of this game online?
Sunday game last night showed brief highlights. It'll be on rte player
Quote from: Bensars on May 26, 2014, 10:12:55 AM
Sunday game last night showed brief highlights. It'll be on rte player
I can only seem to find the Sunday Game Live on Rte Player but not the highlights show.
I thought the Tyrone full forward line that started was quiet enough on Saturday. In the first half all three were out in front and getting on the ball.
Coney though dropped a few short into the keepers hand and kicked a wide or two.
O'Neill was dangerous and took on his man well, resulting in Down fouling him. (Similar to Laverty at the other end)
McCurry was good from the dead ball but not a major treat from open play.
In second half with rain, it was more difficult to win the ball first time. Coney dropped a few and wasn't really in it.
McCurry also went out of it. O'Neill was still dangerous but seem to tire a bit.
McKenna made a great impact, out in front winning every ball and the slippy conditions didn't effect him.
McAliskey first touch was a great score.
The introduction of Stevie also meant there were some great balls going in. If fully fit he should be the CHF.
On a another day Coney may have got five or six.
McAliskey and McKenna will have a good claim for a starting spot the next day. I guess the form in training the week before will decide which three will get on.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 26, 2014, 10:21:13 AM
Quote from: Bensars on May 26, 2014, 10:12:55 AM
Sunday game last night showed brief highlights. It'll be on rte player
I can only seem to find the Sunday Game Live on Rte Player but not the highlights show.
Go to that GAAGOOOOOOOGGOOO thing and you can pay a fiver to see it.
SON has shown before over the past few seasons that he is the most intelligent paser of the ball Tyrone have when played at number 11. Why he hasn't played there more often is bemusing. Did he not win the CHF All Star in 2001?
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 26, 2014, 12:57:08 AM
The Down one looked like Petey was making a slight tackle but if you watch Mcginns feet, one seems to get clipped by Petey at the last second or else he trips on his own leg.
Justy was lucky not to concede a peno as had both hands around the forward.
We created a lot more goal chances and was glad McKenna looked good when he came on
Did Emmet McKenna do much?
You may as well as had nobody on instead of Emmett McKenna
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 26, 2014, 10:48:58 AM
SON has shown before over the past few seasons that he is the most intelligent paser of the ball Tyrone have when played at number 11. Why he hasn't played there more often is bemusing. Did he not win the CHF All Star in 2001?
How can it be bemusing that one of the best players in Ireland with his back to goal has played most of his football at inside forward?
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 26, 2014, 10:48:58 AM
SON has shown before over the past few seasons that he is the most intelligent paser of the ball Tyrone have when played at number 11. Why he hasn't played there more often is bemusing. Did he not win the CHF All Star in 2001?
Its a fair old while since 2001 and he's had his fair share of injuries, putting him out round the middle into heavy contact zones and asking him to run around like a thoroughbred is sadly behind him, that said, a stint out there during a game might be an option. While he still has all the guile and class to make the impossible look routine I hope his role remains that of impact sub for the year similar to Brian McGuigan in 2008.
I can't see Stevie finishing games strong at the minute given his injuries, lack of game time (at any level, only returned for his club a month ago, played one or two games) and age, but what a sight for opposition defenders who have 60 mins in their legs to see a fresh SON coming on to wreck the joint!
I think bringing SoN and Block on at half time is the right decision at the moment anyway(yes a M.Harte compliment har har)
Stevie is one of those players that ye wish ye had two of them. A "bit" like Canavan you wish he was there to hit in the quality pass but also there to receive it and take on his man and score. I suppose the latter is the most important aspect as scores wins games and so that is why he has usually played at FF. A bit like Murphy if he's getting starved of possession then Mickey moves him out the field as he's well capable of taking a man on and soloing in and taking his score.
I just think the Monaghan match (and should we get there) and the Donegal match are totally different types of games where your attack minded footballers get swallowed up and it's totally a war of attrition. I'd say those young lads love playing with Stevie in the team as he knows himself what sort of ball they need hit into them and not to delay it. He knows when you make your run it's essential to get the ball there and then otherwise you stop making those runs after a while.
Another thing I was thinking about was Sean Cavanagh and who we use him. I notice most teams totally target him with often 2 men covering his runs. They block him off time and time again and try to use his "diving" reputation against him. There's a lad I play astro with and whilst he's a great player he is constantly looking for the ball. Even when he's got 2 men on him. He doesn't know when to NOT call for it and so often people pass to him and he loses it. Big Sean does this a lot too I think and the younger lads would find it hard NOT to pass to him. I just think we could be using him a lot better to make space for other lads.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 26, 2014, 10:21:13 AM
Quote from: Bensars on May 26, 2014, 10:12:55 AM
Sunday game last night showed brief highlights. It'll be on rte player
I can only seem to find the Sunday Game Live on Rte Player but not the highlights show.
It's up now.
http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10286668/
I believe Stevie is the best CHF on the panel. If he does not have 70 minutes in him (I think he does), do you start or finish with your best team?
McCartan shows an apparent lack of class again failing to congratulate Tyrone on their win yet again!!
Not really his form though. He's usually gracious in defeat and victory.
Can't understand how Tyrone got that penalty, even the Down one was soft. How pathetic a highlight show was that from RTE. Surely you try show more of the games that were not on live that day?
Down were denied a definite penalty when Jerome Johnston was rugby tackled in the box. The Tyrone penalty was a phantom. McNab totally missed the ball and he and McKernan collided as it was sailing out. McKernan made no contact whatsoever before McNab touched the ball.
The down penalty denial came before the Tyrone penalty was awarded The score was 2-8 to 0-8. So we went from potentially only three behind to suddenly being nine behind and dead ducks.
But all this counts for very little. Even if you scratch the Tyrone penalty and even if Down got theirs and actually managed to score it would have made no difference to the winner. It would only have changed the margin. I think with a bit of luck going their way regrading these events Down could have been a few points closer at the end and it wouldn't have looked so bad. I think the victory was deservedly Tyrone's but the margin should probably have been a bit closer. But no mistake, even if we had drawn level in the last minute of the game Tyrone would just have stormed up the field and banged over two points. Tyrone always had it in the tank to beat us. Cormac Reilly made two pretty bad calls but he didn't decide the winner.
I personally think Tyrone are the second best team in Ireland and although the diplays haven't been inspiring so far, they are only getting warmed up
Explain why Pauld
Paul. Peter Harte was denied a cert pen in the first half so things evened themselves out.
Quote from: EC Unique on May 26, 2014, 07:04:14 PM
Paul. Peter Harte was denied a cert pen in the first half so things evened themselves out.
That happened directly in front of me - I was sitting in the stand about 18 yards out - Peter Harte wasn't touched. He should have turned out or hit it first time but did neither. He threw himself down when he realised he had no angle and was running out of pitch. Was a wee tiny bit embarrassing in fairness - although nowhere near as embarrassing as Conor Laverty's swallow dive.
Down GAA Twitter account describing the 2 penalties on Saturday night. A totally unbiased view :
30 secs into the game and Conor Maginn brought down in the box by Justin McMahon, penalty for Down saved by Tyrone goalie
Then
Penalty for Tyrone dubious decision by ref
Quote from: orangeman on May 27, 2014, 12:22:25 AM
Down GAA Twitter account describing the 2 penalties on Saturday night. A totally unbiased view :
30 secs into the game and Conor Maginn brought down in the box by Justin McMahon, penalty for Down saved by Tyrone goalie
Then
Penalty for Tyrone dubious decision by ref
A correct summary though.
And that is from an Armagh man who hoped both teams would lose!
Quote from: Throw ball on May 27, 2014, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 27, 2014, 12:22:25 AM
Down GAA Twitter account describing the 2 penalties on Saturday night. A totally unbiased view :
30 secs into the game and Conor Maginn brought down in the box by Justin McMahon, penalty for Down saved by Tyrone goalie
Then
Penalty for Tyrone dubious decision by ref
A correct summary though.
And that is from an Armagh man who hoped both teams would lose!
Is that not incorrect - was the alleged foul not made by Harte?
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 27, 2014, 08:06:46 AM
Quote from: Throw ball on May 27, 2014, 12:38:51 AM
Quote from: orangeman on May 27, 2014, 12:22:25 AM
Down GAA Twitter account describing the 2 penalties on Saturday night. A totally unbiased view :
30 secs into the game and Conor Maginn brought down in the box by Justin McMahon, penalty for Down saved by Tyrone goalie
Then
Penalty for Tyrone dubious decision by ref
A correct summary though.
And that is from an Armagh man who hoped both teams would lose!
Is that not incorrect - was the alleged foul not made by Harte?
Mc Mahon wasn't near him and Harte didn't do much to concede the penalty in fairness.
i thought the tyrone one certainly wasnt a penalty and the down one was very soft.
The other down penalty appeal menton i dont think was a penalty either.
Johnson ran into bother and got bottled up and then when he realised he had no where to go, threw himself on the ground.
I watched all three incidents in Slow Mo several times
To me Maginn's foot definitely catches Harte's leg and so to me it was accidental but I can see why it might be given
The Tyrone one was a total joke and no way a penalty but to me Justy had his arms all over Johnston and if it had of been McCurry or someone I would have been looking for a penalty.
You can't have two arms around a man like that holding him back
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 26, 2014, 06:15:38 PM
Explain why Pauld
Explain what? I guess you mean my opinion of Tyrone as I already explained my opinion on the penalties and it seems you pretty much agree.
I think Tyrone are only getting warmed up because they always improve between the spring and summer. Also in the second game there was improved sharpness but way below the level that the individual skills of the players could produce. Harte freshened the team up and it made a big difference. Some players have moved position and are settling in to them now.
As for why I think they are the 2nd best team. Well I believe Dublin are the best. I assume most people right now would agree. After that lets look at the list - Cork, Mayo, Kerry, Derry, Donegal are the only serious contenders for Sam.
I see no reason why Tyrone is not every bit the equal of Donegal or Derry.
With Gooch gone Kerry have lost a bite that I believe effectively ends their serious challenge
Cork and Mayo are the two big possibilities. Mayo are impressive alright but how many times can they go to the well? I think cracks are already showing and frankly I can't see them maintaining it this year. Cork are not the same beast outside the South west.
Tyrone gave Dublin a ridiculous head start then totally out played them for the rest of the game. I think Tyrone have the best balance to stop Dublin.
In fairness perhaps my opinion should really be that Dublin currently have the edge on everyone else and after that Cork, Mayo and Tyrone are a chasing pack possibly with Donegal. There isn't much between them. The one thing is that Tyrone have a team of All-Ireland winners knowing full well how close to the end it is all getting and they are backing up young eager skillful players. They have a top drawer manager. In my opinion that gives them a slight edge over the rest of the chasing pack.
Quote from: PAULD123 on May 27, 2014, 06:18:39 PM
Quote from: Fuzzman on May 26, 2014, 06:15:38 PM
Explain why Pauld
Explain what? I guess you mean my opinion of Tyrone as I already explained my opinion on the penalties and it seems you pretty much agree.
I think Tyrone are only getting warmed up because they always improve between the spring and summer. Also in the second game there was improved sharpness but way below the level that the individual skills of the players could produce. Harte freshened the team up and it made a big difference. Some players have moved position and are settling in to them now.
As for why I think they are the 2nd best team. Well I believe Dublin are the best. I assume most people right now would agree. After that lets look at the list - Cork, Mayo, Kerry, Derry, Donegal are the only serious contenders for Sam.
I see no reason why Tyrone is not every bit the equal of Donegal or Derry.
With Gooch gone Kerry have lost a bite that I believe effectively ends their serious challenge
Cork and Mayo are the two big possibilities. Mayo are impressive alright but how many times can they go to the well? I think cracks are already showing and frankly I can't see them maintaining it this year. Cork are not the same beast outside the South west.
Tyrone gave Dublin a ridiculous head start then totally out played them for the rest of the game. I think Tyrone have the best balance to stop Dublin.
In fairness perhaps my opinion should really be that Dublin currently have the edge on everyone else and after that Cork, Mayo and Tyrone are a chasing pack possibly with Donegal. There isn't much between them. The one thing is that Tyrone have a team of All-Ireland winners knowing full well how close to the end it is all getting and they are backing up young eager skillful players. They have a top drawer manager. In my opinion that gives them a slight edge over the rest of the chasing pack.
Mate dont want to burst your wee bubble but its been 6 years since Tyrone last won Sam, and they havent contested a final since
Ricey is gone- he was absolutely fantastic as good as they come
Jordan - probably one of the greatest half backs of all time
i could go on and on Mulligan Canavan Dooher McGinley Hughes etc
I believe Tyrone should concentrate on the future, play more youth eg Ronan O Neill , took mickey the replay to make changes