Hogan Stand:
QuoteFeile future under threat
27 February 2013
The future of the renowned Feile competitions is under threat because some clubs are too competitive.
GAA officials have raised concerns on the matter as Feile heads into its 42nd year as they feel that the competition has lost its ethos.
Feile is a competition at under-14 level that covers hurling, football, camogie and girls' football and it has become an important part of the GAA's culture.
At a recent Central Council meeting plans were discussed to remove the competitive element from Feile and also to ensure that clubs of every level get a chance to participate, rather than just the best teams in respective counties.
Reports of teams staying in hotels and warm weather training in an attempt to win the national Feile competition have lead to the current discussions.
I nearly choked when I saw the "too competitive" part. Kids around the age of 12 and over love competition. Nothing wrong with it IMHO. There's a place for competitive games and there's a place for non-competitive games.
And what's wrong with teams staying in hotels? Would you prefer them to camp in tents in a field?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2013, 01:45:09 AM
Hogan Stand:
QuoteFeile future under threat
27 February 2013
The future of the renowned Feile competitions is under threat because some clubs are too competitive.
GAA officials have raised concerns on the matter as Feile heads into its 42nd year as they feel that the competition has lost its ethos.
Feile is a competition at under-14 level that covers hurling, football, camogie and girls' football and it has become an important part of the GAA's culture.
At a recent Central Council meeting plans were discussed to remove the competitive element from Feile and also to ensure that clubs of every level get a chance to participate, rather than just the best teams in respective counties.
Reports of teams staying in hotels and warm weather training in an attempt to win the national Feile competition have lead to the current discussions.
I nearly choked when I saw the "too competitive" part. Kids around the age of 12 and over love competition. Nothing wrong with it IMHO. There's a place for competitive games and there's a place for non-competitive games.
And what's wrong with teams staying in hotels? Would you prefer them to camp in tents in a field?
I have an issue with the whole "too competitive" angle and I agree with you that the Feile is one of those jewels where the competitive edge is part of the ethos but I do have an issue with teams staying in hotels. As a former player on the Feile weekend and now father of a player who played 2 summers ago, part of the joy of the event is the whole 'community' aspect whereby the teams stay with local clubs. That builds friendships and ongoing relationships and should be made a central element of the whole weekend. The players will stay in enough hotels over their lives, this is a chance to build friendships.
QuoteAs a former player on the Feile weekend and now father of a player who played 2 summers ago, part of the joy of the event is the whole 'community' aspect whereby the teams stay with local clubs. That builds friendships and ongoing relationships and should be made a central element of the whole weekend. The players will stay in enough hotels over their lives, this is a chance to build friendships.
Agree 100%. U14 is about development and learning about teamwork etc
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on February 28, 2013, 08:39:57 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2013, 01:45:09 AM
Hogan Stand:
QuoteFeile future under threat
27 February 2013
The future of the renowned Feile competitions is under threat because some clubs are too competitive.
GAA officials have raised concerns on the matter as Feile heads into its 42nd year as they feel that the competition has lost its ethos.
Feile is a competition at under-14 level that covers hurling, football, camogie and girls' football and it has become an important part of the GAA's culture.
At a recent Central Council meeting plans were discussed to remove the competitive element from Feile and also to ensure that clubs of every level get a chance to participate, rather than just the best teams in respective counties.
Reports of teams staying in hotels and warm weather training in an attempt to win the national Feile competition have lead to the current discussions.
I nearly choked when I saw the "too competitive" part. Kids around the age of 12 and over love competition. Nothing wrong with it IMHO. There's a place for competitive games and there's a place for non-competitive games.
And what's wrong with teams staying in hotels? Would you prefer them to camp in tents in a field?
I have an issue with the whole "too competitive" angle and I agree with you that the Feile is one of those jewels where the competitive edge is part of the ethos but I do have an issue with teams staying in hotels. As a former player on the Feile weekend and now father of a player who played 2 summers ago, part of the joy of the event is the whole 'community' aspect whereby the teams stay with local clubs. That builds friendships and ongoing relationships and should be made a central element of the whole weekend. The players will stay in enough hotels over their lives, this is a chance to build friendships.
Good stuff, the clubs here in Warwickshire that send teams over to Ireland can/are very competitive but as you say the 'community' feeling is a major aspect of the event. It is also good for the morale of GAA people over here to realise their children are going to be looked after by like minded families, and also to be able to reciprocate the hospitality awarded their teams whenever the occasion arises.
By too competitive they mean how a number of Dublin clubs have brought their U14 team over to Spain for a week of warm weather training prior to the competition. That's too competitive for my liking.
Quote from: blanketattack on February 28, 2013, 12:17:02 PM
By too competitive they mean how a number of Dublin clubs have brought their U14 team over to Spain for a week of warm weather training prior to the competition. That's too competitive for my liking.
A number of Dublin clubs or one Dublin club?
I know its not uncommon for underage soccer teams to take trips abroad, so I don't see anything wrong with GAA teams doing likewise. Presumably its all self funded .
Warm weather training for an u-14 tournament, self funded or not, is ridiculous. There is an expectation placed on slender shoulders with that sort of treatment, a duty of care is required when dealing with lads.
Only the one Dublin club did that as far as I know.
Lads to my mind and in line with best coaching principles on the player athlete pathway as defined particularly for field sports the ages between 12-15 fall into the Training to Train section where emphasis should be on Structured activities, introduction to deliberate practice with greater emphasis on skill performance or as the handouts say - build 'the engine' and consolidate sport-specific skills
I use this as a reference quite a lot - http://www.coachingireland.com/files/NCTC_pathways_Report.pdf (http://www.coachingireland.com/files/NCTC_pathways_Report.pdf) and find it very useful.
I've recommended it to pushy parents in particular ;)
I've heard the Dublin club we're talking about is in a fairly well to do area with a very large catchment ...a few days away in malaga would be easy funded. They're only doing "their" best for their kids.
With a large catchment and well organised structured coaching (ignoring the warm weather training), they will always be really strong (age profile/size) compared to 99% of clubs who dont have these luxuries.
I'm sure it puts ordinary clubs competing in Div 1 off but not sure what you can do
Quote from: theskull1 on February 28, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
I've heard the Dublin club we're talking about is in a fairly well to do area with a very large catchment ...a few days away in malaga would be easy funded. They're only doing "their" best for their kids.
With a large catchment and well organised structured coaching (ignoring the warm weather training), they will always be really strong (age profile/size) compared to 99% of clubs who dont have these luxuries.
I'm sure it puts ordinary clubs competing in Div 1 off but not sure what you can do
The club in question don't seem to be doing too bad in what must be the most competitive county in Ireland, thank you very much.
The club wasn't and will not always be as successful. They've put massive work in across all levels of the club.
Fair dues to them.
If they've the money, good luck to them. Mightn't be mine or your cup of tea but there you go.
who is this dublin club?
whats the big deal with all the secrecy?
Quote from: clarshack on February 28, 2013, 01:25:52 PM
who is this dublin club?
whats the big deal with all the secrecy?
Read theSkull1's post. Turn it back to round and you should be able to work out the club in question. He couldn't be more wrong imvho.
A DUBLIN club has defended its decision to send their U14s to Portugal before last weekend's Féile tournament.
By Terry Reilly
Division 1 champions Ballymun Kickhams won the prestigious underage All-Ireland, a first national title in the club's history, on Sunday. The club had sent the U14s to Browns in the Algarve in Villamoura, a popular senior inter-county venue for pre-season training camps, three weeks before the event in Cork and had been accused of organising a training camp but manager Paddy Christie dismissed the notion.
"We went away for four days," said the former Dublin star.
"I've heard numerous things being said, saying we were taking advantage and were cocky booking it before we won the Dublin Féile.
"But we booked it January. It was not a pre-championship preparation. We would never do that. It was a social trip and there were 15 parents with us. There was no mad fitness training.
"You can see how situation developed. But I'd say we trained for 10% of time we were there. It was more for the kids. When you're training in January it's something to look forward to. If we were knocked out we would still have gone."
The club draws players from Glasnevin and Ballymun. Christie believed they have to manage their team differently from other clubs.
"We would be drawing from disadvantaged areas with social problems and all with it. Things like this all help the kids who are vulnerable and makes a big difference.
"As teachers we [the management] were interested in the good of the kids. I hope the kids stay playing, I hope it makes them better people and they're better for the last four years [under him]. I can see how they've come on from boys to young men."
In fact the only inside knowledge he had going to Cork was from his selector, Tomás Hayes, originally from Bishopstown. But beating St Michael's from Blackrock in Cork in the semi-final was bittersweet for one of Hill 16's favourite sons.
"Not many people know but I was born in Cork and spent the first four years of my life in Blackrock, it was strange."
The club beat St Finbarr's in the final on an impressive scoreline of 2-3 to 0-1 and hopes are high in Ballymun that they can go return to the halicon days of the '80s when Barney Rock and Dermot Deacy led them to two Dublin SFC titles.
Christie previously managed a Ballymun side from U10s up to U21s and last year 12 of that side started in the Dublin SFC while Philly McMahon and Alan Hubbard are on the current Dublin senior team. After helping them to two U21 titles in a row Christie returned to the U10s and has put in four years with this group.
However he has not set big targets for the youngsters.
"Two things at the start agreed on club never won a Dublin Division 1 Féile before and we achieved in April. The club has never won an U15 A either, we've won every other grade and that's the priority for next year."
Not sure why all the smoke and mirrors stuff here but Ballymun u14's went away to Spain (I think it was) prior to their Feile win but I remember Paddy Christie saying this was a trip organised for the kids anyway and had nothing to do with Feile.
I see nothing wrong with bringing kids away on trips, in fact I'd encourage it, because I firmly believe that clubs should offer more than simply games and training if they can. If a club can afford to do something like a trip away then they should, if they can't they shouldn't. As long as the adults are keeping everything in perspective then there is no issue and I'm not sure CP should be getting too taxed about it. Feile should remain for the best teams in each county as U14 is the right age to introduce proper competition IMO.
EDIT: Just saw previous post.
That trip was organised aside from the Feile and was self-funded but the wider issue of teams taking the Feile far too serious is a concern.
In one Dublin club who had recent Feile success, one Juvenile manager is now being paid by a well known nightclub owner to be the clubs director of football. It's great that teams are preparing properly but this is madness.
Yeah this nonsense of teams booking out hotels and not allowing young lads enjoy themselves is nonsense. Yes the football is serious but if a lad has a burger the night before a game is that really going to harm his performance a lot?
The Feile is a great competition and it's funny that our loss in the Derry final still sticks with me to this day 17 odd years later.
QuoteIn one Dublin club who had recent Feile success, one Juvenile manager is now being paid by a well known nightclub owner to be the clubs director of football. It's great that teams are preparing properly but this is madness.
Madness that a guy is being employed to oversee underage development?
Quote from: Zulu on February 28, 2013, 02:58:55 PM
QuoteIn one Dublin club who had recent Feile success, one Juvenile manager is now being paid by a well known nightclub owner to be the clubs director of football. It's great that teams are preparing properly but this is madness.
Madness that a guy is being employed to oversee underage development?
Being paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
Are they the same club who sent their Féile team to Carton House for a training camp?
Quote from: heffo on February 28, 2013, 03:00:52 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 28, 2013, 02:58:55 PM
QuoteIn one Dublin club who had recent Feile success, one Juvenile manager is now being paid by a well known nightclub owner to be the clubs director of football. It's great that teams are preparing properly but this is madness.
Madness that a guy is being employed to oversee underage development?
Being paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
If he is doing a valuable job for the club and it isn't coming out of club coffers then what's the problem? If the man is qualified to do such a job and can help give direction to the other mentors, ensure that the work of one age group is building upon the work of another then I see no issue. If he is just getting paid because of who he is well as long as he isn't negatively impacting on the club good luck to him, it ain't costing the club a penny.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 28, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
Are they the same club who sent their Féile team to Carton House for a training camp?
Correct
Training and prerparation aside, I think its imperative and part of the whole occasion that the players stay with the host clubs as its very much part of the joy and benefits of Feile.
QuoteBeing paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
Agreed.
St Johns Belfast stayed in a hotel among other things......
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2013, 01:45:09 AM
Hogan Stand:
QuoteFeile future under threat
27 February 2013
The future of the renowned Feile competitions is under threat because some clubs are too competitive.
GAA officials have raised concerns on the matter as Feile heads into its 42nd year as they feel that the competition has lost its ethos.
Feile is a competition at under-14 level that covers hurling, football, camogie and girls' football and it has become an important part of the GAA's culture.
At a recent Central Council meeting plans were discussed to remove the competitive element from Feile and also to ensure that clubs of every level get a chance to participate, rather than just the best teams in respective counties.
Reports of teams staying in hotels and warm weather training in an attempt to win the national Feile competition have lead to the current discussions.
I nearly choked when I saw the "too competitive" part. Kids around the age of 12 and over love competition. Nothing wrong with it IMHO. There's a place for competitive games and there's a place for non-competitive games.
And what's wrong with teams staying in hotels? Would you prefer them to camp in tents in a field?
Has this story appeared anywhere else other than here? http://www.hoganstand.com/Waterford/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=186574
Don't know what they are basing this on. There are no quotes in this story, no byline for anyone to have to take responsibility for it, and only the vaguest hint of where it may have emanated from. 'A recent Central Council' meeting. I would not be taking anything from hoganstand.com seriously unless I saw it backed up somewhere else and names attributed to it. That story from the Examiner about Ballymun taking their Under 14s away is from nearly 2 years ago and there doesn't appear to be any connection to the Hoganstand's 'story'.
Move along, nothing to see here...
Quote from: heffo on February 28, 2013, 03:16:45 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on February 28, 2013, 03:06:24 PM
Are they the same club who sent their Féile team to Carton House for a training camp?
Correct
Maybe it's time to start splitting some big Dublin clubs instead of the County ???
We've been splitting Dubs for decades.
Quote from: Declan on February 28, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
QuoteBeing paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
Agreed.
+1
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2013, 09:37:24 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 28, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
QuoteBeing paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
Agreed.
+1
Reason????
Quote from: Zulu on March 01, 2013, 10:37:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on March 01, 2013, 09:37:24 AM
Quote from: Declan on February 28, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
QuoteBeing paid unsolicited by a third party in a club which already has dozens on unpaid Juvenile mentors.
The club already have paid coaches. This guy has won an AI medal and has kids playing for the club - he shouldn't be paid, no.
Agreed.
+1
Reason????
Maybe I'm being incredibly naive but has he no attachment to his club? He has a full time job, the role he's being paid for isn't full time and isn't more time consuming then the roles of dozens of people in the club.
IMO this is the sort of carry on that will divide a club. He has a skillset and should be giving his skills for free imo.
If a wealthy man is willing to pay someone to do something then surely that's his prerogative. I don't know the ins and outs of this situation but as the club aren't paying him then I don't see how any volunteer coaches can be upset. The reality is that many clubs would benefit from good coaches being fully employed to over see their underage development and if outside benefactors are willing to fund this then good luck to the club.
Quote from: Zulu on March 01, 2013, 11:07:02 AM
If a wealthy man is willing to pay someone to do something then surely that's his prerogative. I don't know the ins and outs of this situation but as the club aren't paying him then I don't see how any volunteer coaches can be upset. The reality is that many clubs would benefit from good coaches being fully employed to over see their underage development and if outside benefactors are willing to fund this then good luck to the club.
We'll agree to disagree Zulu!
One of the posters here is from the club and if he reads the thread he'll give us the inside track on the effects of it.
I was horrified reading this thread when I leanred rumours of an U-14 team "having training camp in Portugal" were true. When I read the article then I had no problem with it. Paddy Christie et al are working miracles in Ballymun and surrounds and fair play to them. Easy to see how the truth can be corrupted.
As Heffo mentioned though there is an issue here. Some clubs would need to cop themselves on. As someone who was lucky enough to play in this competition twice, winning our division the 2nd year (only Sligo team to do so ever!), I really feel the fun and community aspect needs to be maintained at all costs. We were very serious about winning but had great craic. It was brilliant.
Quote from: Massey-135 on February 28, 2013, 07:24:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on February 28, 2013, 01:45:09 AM
Hogan Stand:
QuoteFeile future under threat
27 February 2013
The future of the renowned Feile competitions is under threat because some clubs are too competitive.
GAA officials have raised concerns on the matter as Feile heads into its 42nd year as they feel that the competition has lost its ethos.
Feile is a competition at under-14 level that covers hurling, football, camogie and girls' football and it has become an important part of the GAA's culture.
At a recent Central Council meeting plans were discussed to remove the competitive element from Feile and also to ensure that clubs of every level get a chance to participate, rather than just the best teams in respective counties.
Reports of teams staying in hotels and warm weather training in an attempt to win the national Feile competition have lead to the current discussions.
I nearly choked when I saw the "too competitive" part. Kids around the age of 12 and over love competition. Nothing wrong with it IMHO. There's a place for competitive games and there's a place for non-competitive games.
And what's wrong with teams staying in hotels? Would you prefer them to camp in tents in a field?
Has this story appeared anywhere else other than here? http://www.hoganstand.com/Waterford/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=186574
Don't know what they are basing this on. There are no quotes in this story, no byline for anyone to have to take responsibility for it, and only the vaguest hint of where it may have emanated from. 'A recent Central Council' meeting. I would not be taking anything from hoganstand.com seriously unless I saw it backed up somewhere else and names attributed to it. That story from the Examiner about Ballymun taking their Under 14s away is from nearly 2 years ago and there doesn't appear to be any connection to the Hoganstand's 'story'.
Move along, nothing to see here...
This matter was discussed briefly at a Leinster games development meeting last Monday night. The representatives from various counties spoke in favour of maintaining the present system but were more or less told that any decision would be based on implementing National Games Development committee policy. What they propose for 2013 was that counties would preferably consider selecting a club which had not previously played in the national finals . From 2014 it is proposed that a team which had won a Feile in each county would be debarred from playing in the National final for 5 years. While it was recognised that there is problems regarding the cost of the weekend to clubs, the positives should be recognised I have been at 3 , 1 with my own club and 2 representing a county board in Derry and Laois and the experience at all 3 was positive . Again the feeling of the meeting was the problem stemmed from allegations of what has gone on in division 1 .
I know a family who hosted a few young lads from Kerry. There was an underage disco one of the nights for all the Feile crowd and the Kerry lads were not allowed to go, had to be in bed by 9pm because they had a game the next day. That sort of thing is absolutely mind bending stuff, can you imagine letting your kids participate under the guidance of a person who would prevent them from attending a kiddy disco because they had a game the next day?! Whoever made that decision should be shot with a ball of his own dung and barred from the GAA for life.
There was also something about special diets they were on or something I don't remember the details.