Down were abysmal today and Munster counties are going well this year so hard to call when you factor in recovery and momentum, will be interesting and history favours Tipperary.
I don't know Dinny, Down were semi finalists in Div 1 of the National League, while Tipp were relegated from Div. 3. Tipp have improved an awful lot since then, but it is still a big gap to be bridged. Having said that however, the last time Tipp and Down played in the Div. 3 NFL Final in Longford in 2009, Tipp won by a point after extra time.
Tip will win.
Down are very inconsistent.
They put up half a good show today; but that'll be them for the year......mark my words!
Going to be difficult for Down to pick themselves up after today's demoralizing defeat and six days to recover won't help.
Down are a mediocre side but its still division one against division three. Would expect Down to get through this. Are these games neutral venues?
Incidentally is the QF a straight open draw, for instance could kerry play Cork again at this stage?
Quote from: yellowcard on July 22, 2012, 06:34:50 PM
Down are a mediocre side but its still division one against division three. Would expect Down to get through this. Are these games neutral venues?
Incidentally is the QF a straight open draw, for instance could kerry play Cork again at this stage?
I think rematches of games played earlier are to be avoided if at all possible.
I hope down win so that they can beat kerry later if
required
Quote from: CorkMan on July 22, 2012, 06:40:09 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 22, 2012, 06:34:50 PM
Down are a mediocre side but its still division one against division three. Would expect Down to get through this. Are these games neutral venues?
Incidentally is the QF a straight open draw, for instance could kerry play Cork again at this stage?
I think rematches of games played earlier are to be avoided if at all possible.
It's an open draw!
Was in Thurles yesterday and Tipp impressed me. If sort out their shooting could beat a dis-spirited Down surely
Down are deffo there for the taking after yesterday's hammering. Tipp's to loose.
Anyone know the venues for the next round. BBC reported that the Down Tipp game is in CLones. Surely that is not a neutral venue as far as Tipp are concerned?
Quote from: yellowcard on July 22, 2012, 06:34:50 PM
Down are a mediocre side but its still division one against division three. Would expect Down to get through this. Are these games neutral venues?
Incidentally is the QF a straight open draw, for instance could kerry play Cork again at this stage?
I think the provincial winners are kept apart until the semi finals (if they get there)
Quote from: borderfox on July 23, 2012, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 22, 2012, 06:34:50 PM
Down are a mediocre side but its still division one against division three. Would expect Down to get through this. Are these games neutral venues?
Incidentally is the QF a straight open draw, for instance could kerry play Cork again at this stage?
I think the provincial winners are kept apart until the semi finals (if they get there)
For the quarter finals the 4th round qualifier winners will be drawn out to face a provincial finalist each, but there can not be a repeat of a provincial final. So say if Down beat Tipp then they could play Mayo, Dublin or Cork but not Donegal. Kerry could play Cork because they lost to them in a Munster semi, not the final so a re-match is possible.
After that, the winner of the Cork quarter final will play the winner of the Donegal quarter final. The winner of the Dublin quarter final will play the winner of the Mayo quarter final
Quote from: In the Onion Bag on July 23, 2012, 09:23:16 AM
Down are deffo there for the taking after yesterday's hammering. Tipp's to loose.
Anyone know the venues for the next round. BBC reported that the Down Tipp game is in CLones. Surely that is not a neutral venue as far as Tipp are concerned?
The BBC reported this??? I would listen to a word that comes out of their mouthjs cause they dont have a clue
Always loved going to Clones for Ulster Finals. I have not been there for a good few years now, but can not see the Tipp v. Down game being played there. It is much too far away from Tipperary to be even considered. Really looking forward to the game, wherever it is played. Tipp are really in bonus territory now and despite yesterday's result Down are still a Div. 1 team and for people of my generation Down are very much a county that we admire for all the great players that they produce. I see that Paddy Power have Down at 2/5 and Tipp at 5/2 and I suppose that those odds are about right. Should be a good day.
Game 4 o clock saturday in Mullingar
Quote from: Onlooker on July 23, 2012, 12:25:02 PM
Always loved going to Clones for Ulster Finals. I have not been there for a good few years now, but can not see the Tipp v. Down game being played there. It is much too far away from Tipperary to be even considered. Really looking forward to the game, wherever it is played. Tipp are really in bonus territory now and despite yesterday's result Down are still a Div. 1 team and for people of my generation Down are very much a county that we admire for all the great players that they produce. I see that Paddy Power have Down at 2/5 and Tipp at 5/2 and I suppose that those odds are about right. Should be a good day.
Tipp and Down played a hurling quarterfinal in Clones a good few years ago, mid nineties possibly, so someone in Croke park must consider it a halfwayhouse, not sure how that works though!
I Believe the AI Hurling quarter final between Down and Clare is on before the Tipp Down game.
These young lads need the support so hopefully as many Down people as possible will aim to go for both. I know i will. might be the only Quarter Final we get to all year.
That Tipperary/Down hurling quarter final was in 1997, Johnneycool. Tipp had been beaten by Clare in the Munster Final and Down won the Ulster Championship. Mullingar it is next Saturday at 4 pm.
Quote from: snoopdog on July 23, 2012, 02:13:11 PM
I Believe the AI Hurling quarter final between Down and Clare is on before the Tipp Down game.
These young lads need the support so hopefully as many Down people as possible will aim to go for both. I know i will. might be the only Quarter Final we get to all year.
They will probably get some support from the Tipperary people that arrive early as well.
Realistically lads this will be a stroll in the Park for a Down team needing to salvage some pride. Tipp. a reasonable side but far behind Down in terms of ability
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2012, 09:47:11 PM
Good for football if Tipp can win this one and they have the opportunity to do it given the porous Down defence.
I guess you'd be equally supportive to Down's cause should they make a big break through and face tipp in the hurling next year??
Quote from: Pangurban on July 23, 2012, 07:29:19 PM
Realistically lads this will be a stroll in the Park for a Down team needing to salvage some pride. Tipp. a reasonable side but far behind Down in terms of ability
Down and Tipperary played 3 times in 2009 & 2010. Down won the Div. 3 NFL match in Thurles. Tipp won the Div. 3 Final in Longford (after extra time) and the Div. 2 NFL match in Newry was a draw. Down are favourites all right, but you should not be expecting any stroll in the park.
Anyone who thinks that Saturday will be a stroll in the park for Down needs to look at the record of beaten provincial finalists when they have a qualifier six days later. Only one county has managed win in those circumstances since the open draw was introduced in 2001. It is clear that losing a provincial title - and few teams will have taken a bigger thumping in a final than Down yesterday - has a draining effect, while the side progressing through the previous qualifying rounds has usually put together two or more consecutive victories and will be on a roll.
Tipperary are still a division three side, but when most of the same players were involved in the 2009 D3 play-off they deservedly beat us. The following year, the only game we failed to win in D2 was against Tipperary in Newry. They are among the favourites to retain the AI minor title they won last year, and are already introducing several of those youngsters at senior level.
While we should have more quality in our squad, we looked a tired and dispirited bunch in the final quarter at Clones and the management have a big task in lifting our heads. Hopefully, James will be bold, re-jig the defensive set-up, bring in some fresh legs and leave most of the injured veterans on the bench until if and when they are needed.
It will be a tight call between McVeigh and Harrison in nets, but both are fine keepers. Gordon was again effective at full back yesterday but he may be required to steady the ship at midfield in Mullingar, and McArdle should be capable of holding the square for us. Duffin and O'Hagan are not specialist corner backs, but they would offer pace and aggression against what will probably be two deep lying corner forwards.
Garvey is certain to get a recall, and Rooney and McParland would complete a physically strong half back line. Ambrose and Dan would work well at midfield, as King seemed to take a heavy knock in Clones and was a doubtful starter anyway.
Poland is assured of his place and taking off Carr was probably a mistake yesterday so he should return. The other half forward needs to act as a spare defender and support the midfield, so McKernan,who will be well aware of his flaws on Sunday, might get another chance. His best game so far this season was at wing half forward away to Laois, and we actually got worse after he went off yesterday.
Laverty is another certain starter, and Doyle could be named in the corner and given a free role. Benny needs to be held back, together with Hughes and Maginn, until fully fit, and, while McCartan did well after appearing at half-time, McConville is overdue his championship opportunity.
The suggestion therefore is McVeigh/Harrison; Duffin, McArdle, O'Hagan; McParland, Garvey, Rooney; Rogers, Gordon; McKernan, Carr, Poland; Laverty, McConville, Doyle; but there will be plenty of other opinions about.
It will be well worth getting there early to see a fine Down minor hurling team who will need all the support they can get against the hot favourites Clare in the AI quarter final.
tight call for goalkeeper!!! whats that all about. you,ve been knocking Brendy Mac on this board for a couple of years now, so wise up man and take your glassdrummond glasses off. Btw when did you figure out young Shane had a longer clearance than Brendy. He,ll get his chance, but will have to bide his time.
MR whilst i like the majority of your team I would have a couple of issues with it.
To me Dan Gordon has to stay at FB, he has been an immense presence for us there and I would argue that he is now a better FB than midfielder. (I await Leo's backlash) I would keep him there and play McArdle in the corner.
I would also keep Ohare in the full forward line as I think him and Laverty could give the Tipp defence the runaround like the fermanagh defence. I would hope there would be a bit more space for our smaller forwards this wk than there was against Donegal. My team would therefore be
McVeigh
OHagan
Gordon
McArdle
McParland
Rooney
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Carr
Poland
McKernan
OHare
Laverty
Doyle
Unfortunately i dont see James doing this and I dont think he will drop Dan McCartan or Brannigan and I dont see McParland or Rooney starting.
The starting line up imo is more likely to be
McVeigh
McCartan
Gordon
OHagan
Brannigan
McArdle
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Maginn/McKernan
Poland
Carr
Ohare
Laverty
Doyle
Its a toss up between Carr, McKernan and Maginn as to who starts at wing forward id say.
Extra Time, the post above says that Down are blessed with two fine goalkeepers, which is hardly a criticism of Brendy McVeigh who has been an outstanding servant for us. If he is selected for Saturday, he will be as reliable as ever between the posts.
However, it is a simple fact that any team which concedes 2-18 in an Ulster final needs to review all aspects of its defensive structure. Several young players, including Shane Harrison, are pushing hard for a starting spot against Tipperary, and that can only be a healthy development.
Reviewing the goalkeeping position is not our main priority, but it cannot be excluded from the discussion. We all know that some changes are essential, and, if we make the right decisions overall, we will be in an AI quarter final.
Whitegoodman is right to say that Gordon has been excellent at full back, but McArdle is also fully capable of playing there and we will need to get an immediate grip at midfield in Mullingar. King fairly clearly picked up an injury at Clones, and may be a better option coming off the bench.
As Laverty will again be a key figure for us, it will be taking a big chance to include another very light forward like O'Hare in the forward line against a physically strong Tipperary side. We have some very talented players up front, but we need to get the balance right.
whiteGM, in the end I have come round and you have convinced me to the idea of Gordon playing full-back. We need to stop goals going in. I have also finally accepted that McKernan can not be trusted in defence. He opened up the space to allow the Donegal runs down the middle. If we assume Hughes and Benny should be rested then we need a slight re-shuffle. Doyle is also carrying an injury but in his case I think match practice is more important. Also why develop players like McConville and McParland throughout the league only to discard them for the championship even though they have done nothing wrong? I would like to see:
McVeigh
McCardle - Gordon - O'Hagan
Garvey - Doyle - McParland
King - Rogers
Maginn/McKernan - Poland - Carr
Laverty - McConville - O'Hare
But I don't think shuffling the players or adjusting the starting line-up is the key issue. I think all the players listed between us are good enough to be picked. It is not the individual talent that is the problem but the attitude. The players have to be dedicated to a system and buy-in to it completely. Our players did not buy-in and when it went wrong they lost belief in it and turned into individuals. The management can not do anything when the players reject the plan and do not buy-in. The plan is there for good and bad to bring an eventual result it can not be abandoned just because the opposition have had a good ten minute spell. On Sunday we were 3 behind with over 15 to go, nearly 20 including injury time. My thinking is that lack of discipline cost us not bad player selection by the management.
Quote from: extra time on July 24, 2012, 11:06:13 AM
tight call for goalkeeper!!! whats that all about. you,ve been knocking Brendy Mac on this board for a couple of years now, so wise up man and take your glassdrummond glasses off. Btw when did you figure out young Shane had a longer clearance than Brendy. He,ll get his chance, but will have to bide his time.
Although you prob use
glassdrummond as part of you wum act the is no glassdrummond Sth Down as far as I know. You'll find one in Tyrone, Arma Sth, east Down and Fermanagh, etc.
Sth Down does however, have a
Glasdrumman meaning small green hill which anyone knowing the area will immediately know how accurate the original Irish was in describing places.
Sorry to be so sensitive about this important detail abut incorrect spelling reinforces ancient attempts to deny the Irish language heritage of the area.
After the beating Down got last week you would have to wonder whether the players wont be looking beyond Tipp and thinking whether they really want to face Cork Dublin or Mayo in a Quarter Final. Tipp are probably investing more into underage football than any county right now and are far from a pushover even if the Down boys can pick themselves up.
If Down were facing Wexford next week how confident would supporters be ?
Quote from: whitegoodman on July 24, 2012, 01:14:36 PM
MR whilst i like the majority of your team I would have a couple of issues with it.
To me Dan Gordon has to stay at FB, he has been an immense presence for us there and I would argue that he is now a better FB than midfielder. (I await Leo's backlash) I would keep him there and play McArdle in the corner.
I would also keep Ohare in the full forward line as I think him and Laverty could give the Tipp defence the runaround like the fermanagh defence. I would hope there would be a bit more space for our smaller forwards this wk than there was against Donegal. My team would therefore be
McVeigh
OHagan
Gordon
McArdle
McParland
Rooney
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Carr
Poland
McKernan
OHare
Laverty
Doyle
Unfortunately i dont see James doing this and I dont think he will drop Dan McCartan or Brannigan and I dont see McParland or Rooney starting.
The starting line up imo is more likely to be
McVeigh
McCartan
Gordon
OHagan
Brannigan
McArdle
Garvey
King
Rodgers
Maginn/McKernan
Poland
Carr
Ohare
Laverty
Doyle
Its a toss up between Carr, McKernan and Maginn as to who starts at wing forward id say.
Funny enough WGM despite my oft stated preference for A natural midfielder to be selected in that position, I have to admit that had Gordon been allowed to stay on the square on Sunday we would not have been suckered by so many readable moves through the big gap which we left in front of goal leading to easy scores for our opponents (not for the first time).
As for the suggested teams, I cant see O'Hare starting but McKernan (for all his failings) will along with his McCartan clubmates. The Burren man I'd really want to see on the field is Declan Rooney as per your selection - but is he fit?
Both your selections seem to be acknowledging that Hughes & Coulter are not fit - and should not have been used on Sunday. I am in grave danger of agreeing with you.
Lol u feeling alright Leo.
If coulter doesn't start which I don't think he should then I think ohare will start.
If Hughes doesn't start which I don't think he should the maginn or mckernan is likely to start.
On Rooney he started chb last night and played well, stood out a mile as I would think the Ballyholland lads on here would agree. However I think he is out of favour at the county and would be very surprised if he starts on Saturday.
Down team named
1 Brendan McVeigh An Ríocht
2 Darren O'Hagan Cluain Daimh 3 Dan Gordon Loch an Oileáin 4 Conor Garvey Droicheád MhaighEo
5 Aiden Branagan Cill Chua 6 Brendan McArdle Eanach Chluain 7 Aidan Carr Cluain Daimh
8 Ambrose Rogers Cloch Fhada 9 Kalum King Áth Bhriain
10 Kevin Duffin Caisleán an Mhuillin 11 Mark Poland Cloch Fhada 12 Conor Maginn Áth Bhriain
13 Eoin McCartan Boireann 14 Conor Laverty Cill Chua 15 Brendan Coulter Droichead MhaighEo
I see that Ciarán McDonald made the GAA team of the week. I wonder which Down forward he will be marking tomorrow, McCartan, Coulter or Laverty?
Tipp is unchanged from the team that beat Antrim -:
Paul Fitzgerald (Fethard)
Andrew Morrissey (Galtee Rovers)
Paddy Codd (Killenaule)
Ciaran McDonald (Aherlow)
Brian Fox (Eire Og)
Robbie Kiely (Arravale Rovers)
Alan Campbell (Moyle Rovers)
George Hannigan (Shannon Rovers)
Hugh Coghlan (Portlaoise)
Richie Ryan (Eire Og)
Philip Austin (Borrisokane) capt.
Donagh Leahy (Arravale Rovers)
Alan Moloney (Rockwell Rovers)
Peter Acheson (Moyle Rovers)
Michael Quinlivan (Clonmel Commercials)
Its nerve tingling.
In championship football I would expect Down to win 4 outta 5 but ..... coming off such a hiding 6days earlier I am really worried about this one.
Tipp have nadda to loose whereas Down have all the pressure on them.
Fingers & toes are crossed. Might even become a catholic again and do a novena.
Can anyone post a radio link for the game please ? Cheers
http://www.destinationnewry.com/radio/
Top right hand corner (red box click play)