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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: seafoid on October 26, 2011, 10:43:16 PM

Title: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 26, 2011, 10:43:16 PM
I came across a Tyrone lineout where they gave the names of the players and the clubs in Irish and I was wondering if
other counties up north do the same . Some of the translations are very interesting - eg MacDhonaill is McConnell
not McDonnell . And Cookstown is An Chorra Chriochach. And Coill an Chlochair is Killyclogher etc

http://www.tyronegaa.ie/2011/03/tyrone-v-kildare-team-named/

1. Pascal Mac Dhónaill An Baile Nua

2 Mairtín Ó Fuada  Coill an Chlochair

3 Seosamh Mac Mathúna  An Omaigh     

4 Damán Mac Camhaoil Domhnach Mór

5 Daithí Ó hAirt Aireagal Chiaráin

6 Conchúr Ó Garmaile an Charraig Mhór

7 Riain Mac Meanmán  An Droim Mhór

8 Caoimhín Ó hAodha Cill Íseal

9 Aodhán Ó Casaide Eochar

10 Colm Caomhánach An Mhaigh

11 Brian Mag Uiginn Ard Bó

12 Seán Caomhánach An Mhaigh

13 Mairtín Penrose Achadh Uí Aráin

14 Stiofán Ó Néill Clann na nGael

15 Eoin Ó Maolagáin   Chorra Chriochach
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

What does Killyclogher mean in English ? Where did the names of most of the places in the wee 6  come from ?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

What does Killyclogher mean in English ? Where did the names of most of the places in the wee 6  come from ?

The same place as most of the names in the big 26 came from!  FFS just because there was a border imposed in 1920 doesn't mean that the names of all the places were suddenly changed ::)
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Canalman on October 27, 2011, 10:47:54 AM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 10:32:23 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

What does Killyclogher mean in English ? Where did the names of most of the places in the wee 6  come from ?
Coill is a forest
Clochar is a convent but also the name of a diocese.
Wiki says - Rocky forest. I wouldn't be so sure.

I always liked the Irish for Pomeroy.


Probably Cill an Chlochair..................... Convent Church.  Cill is an old Irish word for Church/Oratory.

I stand corrected though.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 11:21:49 AM
The vast majority of place names in Ireland come from Irish origins.

Béal Feirste - Mouth of the Sandbars
Doire - Oak Grove
Craigavon - Place of the roundabouts
Ómaigh - the virgin plain (now there's a lie and a half)

Not sure what the ancient policy was outside the 6 counties...
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

What does Killyclogher mean in English ? Where did the names of most of the places in the wee 6  come from ?

The same place as most of the names in the big 26 came from!  FFS just because there was a border imposed in 1920 doesn't mean that the names of all the places were suddenly changed ::)

Eamonn doesn't think they should have an Irish spelling. That is the FFS.
Virtually all the placenames in Ireland are from Irish. The main exception is modern housing estates. 
Anyway what about the other counties up north ? Do all the clubs have an Irish spelling  ?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 01:50:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

You're not one of the Wright's from South Armagh by any chance? A load of them boys used to be interested in all things like that. I've not heard from them in a while though.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 04:04:24 PM
Quote from: hardstation on October 27, 2011, 01:38:32 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 01:32:30 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:07:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

What does Killyclogher mean in English ? Where did the names of most of the places in the wee 6  come from ?

The same place as most of the names in the big 26 came from!  FFS just because there was a border imposed in 1920 doesn't mean that the names of all the places were suddenly changed ::)

Eamonn doesn't think they should have an Irish spelling. That is the FFS.
Virtually all the placenames in Ireland are from Irish. The main exception is modern housing estates. 
Anyway what about the other counties up north ? Do all the clubs have an Irish spelling  ?
I'm not sure what you mean.

Is it just Tyrone that publishes the names in Irish ? 
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Magicsponge on October 27, 2011, 04:24:20 PM
I think most counties will randomly print out team sheets in Irish. Sometimes the names are in English and sometimes they are in Irish. I guess it depends on people bothering to translate the names and hand them into the county that way.

I'm pretty sure must clubs have Irish spelling. On the back of most club Jersey's the club name is printed in Irish
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 06:25:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

Apples and oranges: the vast majority of Gaelic players' names are actually translations, or transliterations, of the original Gaelic, not the other way about; ergo 'tis the English versions that are the impostors, not the Gaelic.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: andoireabu on October 27, 2011, 06:32:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 01:32:30 PM
Do all the clubs have an Irish spelling  ?
My own club has Suiatreach on the jersey and the village would be Baile an tSuaitrigh in Irish.  Wiki says it means "town of the billeted soldier". Not sure about the team sheet.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 09:44:38 PM
Dear God I wish people would read the posts a bit more carefully before making fools out of themselves in their replies.  I'm going to spell this out a bit more clearly for the benefit of those who cannot read:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 09:56:57 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 09:44:38 PM
Dear God I wish people would read the posts a bit more carefully before making fools out of themselves in their replies...

So what's this piece of nonsense about:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

Delgado was always Delgado; Murphy wasn't always Murphy.

Edit: And it's not about translating anything - how can you call the original form of a name a translation?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
The "original form" of your name is what's on your birth certificate regardless of what its etymology is.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:10:54 PM
In your opinion. Birth cert names can be changed, very easily, the original can never be changed.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 27, 2011, 10:17:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
The "original form" of your name is what's on your birth certificate regardless of what its etymology is.

You know you have been in the States too long when...
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?

Eddie's
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?

Is the idiom lost on you?

By your reasoning, women should never change their surnames on marrying (since it won't match their birth certs); the GAA would never have been formed in the first place since those games of distant antiquity were not being played when the founders' birth certificates were drawn up, etc., etc.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:20:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 27, 2011, 10:17:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?

Eddie's

:D
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:30:28 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:20:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 10:15:52 PM
Of course it's my opinion. Who else's opinion would it be?

Is the idiom lost on you?

By your reasoning, women should never change their surnames on marrying (since it won't match their birth certs); the GAA would never have been formed in the first place since those games of distant antiquity were not being played when the founders' birth certificates were drawn up, etc., etc.

Is the smart alec intent of my reply lost on you?

Women change their surnames on marrying, I don't see them taking their current first name and translating it into another language so what that has to do with the price of fish I do not know.

And your last "point" about the GAA has got to be the most bizarre case of a straw man I have ever seen. How on earth you could interpret anything I said to mean "the GAA should never have been set up" is just beyond me. I'll have some of what you're smoking.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:51:54 PM
Yeah, I'm creasing up here at the brilliance of your 'wit'.

Call it reductio ad adsurdum re the founding of the GAA on my part, but to take the birth certificate as anything other than a record of a moment in (modern) time, a snapshot, betrays a shallowness of appreciation of tradition and awareness such that I would have assumed anyone who had an appreciation of the GAA to be simply incapable of.

Unless, of course, the original Irish form of your surname means something like the 'bald, fat, ugly insufferable fool'. I could understand your antipathy towards your origins in that particular case, certainly.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 11:32:49 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 27, 2011, 10:51:54 PM
Yeah, I'm creasing up here at the brilliance of your 'wit'.


I'd prefer it if you'd just bask in the glory of my magnificence since you know I'm right.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Aerlik on October 28, 2011, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 11:21:49 AM
The vast majority of place names in Ireland come from Irish origins.

Béal Feirste - Mouth of the Sandbars
Doire - Oak Grove

Craigavon - Place of the roundabouts :D

Ómaigh - the virgin plain (now there's a lie and a half)

Not sure what the ancient policy was outside the 6 counties...

Craigavon...Carraig Abhainn.  Rock in the river?

Aye lads, seriously that border thingy should be cleansed from your mind.  We in the 6 are as Irish as you in the 26
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: ONeill on October 28, 2011, 11:20:20 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 09:44:38 PM
Dear God I wish people would read the posts a bit more carefully before making fools out of themselves in their replies.  I'm going to spell this out a bit more clearly for the benefit of those who cannot read:

Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 27, 2011, 12:58:31 AM
I've never agreed with this practice of translating peoples' names into their Irish equivalents. Your name is what your parents gave you in whatever language they chose.   

I don't ever remember the anglophone media referring to the Spanish cyclist Pedro Delgado as "Peter Thin".

Horrible use of the apostrophe there.

Always loved McMenamin's name as Gaeilge.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: spuds on October 29, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
Quote from: Aerlik on October 28, 2011, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 11:21:49 AM
The vast majority of place names in Ireland come from Irish origins.

Béal Feirste - Mouth of the Sandbars
Doire - Oak Grove

Craigavon - Place of the roundabouts :D

Ómaigh - the virgin plain (now there's a lie and a half)

Not sure what the ancient policy was outside the 6 counties...

Craigavon...Carraig Abhainn.  Rock in the river?

Aye lads, seriously that border thingy should be cleansed from your mind.  We in the 6 are as Irish as you in the 26

How can New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia be considered Irish ?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: ballinaman on October 29, 2011, 01:15:21 PM
Quote from: spuds on October 29, 2011, 01:11:56 PM
Quote from: Aerlik on October 28, 2011, 06:58:56 PM
Quote from: sheamy on October 27, 2011, 11:21:49 AM
The vast majority of place names in Ireland come from Irish origins.

Béal Feirste - Mouth of the Sandbars
Doire - Oak Grove

Craigavon - Place of the roundabouts :D

Ómaigh - the virgin plain (now there's a lie and a half)

Not sure what the ancient policy was outside the 6 counties...

Craigavon...Carraig Abhainn.  Rock in the river?

Aye lads, seriously that border thingy should be cleansed from your mind.  We in the 6 are as Irish as you in the 26

How can New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia be considered Irish ?
Australian Capital Territory?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 28, 2011, 11:20:20 PM

Horrible use of the apostrophe there.

Correct use of the apostrophe. If it's the plural possessive then the apostrophe goes after the s.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Hardy on October 30, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2011, 05:51:55 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 28, 2011, 11:20:20 PM

Horrible use of the apostrophe there.

Correct use of the apostrophe. If it's the plural possessive then the apostrophe goes after the s.

Incorrect. The plural is "people", not peoples. The possessive of people is people's. There is a word "peoples" as the plural for nations or races, as in "the peoples of Western Europe". The possessive of this would have the apostrophe after the "s" as in "These peoples' history".
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 30, 2011, 06:22:11 PM
Look like you're right. (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_plural_possessive_of_the_word_'people')
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: 5 Sams on October 30, 2011, 08:06:36 PM
One thing that bugs me is the obligatory translation of Irish names on teamsheets.....Another of the archaic rules of the GAA that should be done away with...will probably happen naturally when more eastern european and african lads and lasses come on board...agus tá míle fáilte rompu ...as for place names....leave them alone...an essential part of our heritage....very interesting stuff as well...e.g. find out what Sawel Mountain's Irish name is and then check out what it means :o :o
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: John79 on October 31, 2011, 01:08:01 AM
To go off on a sporting tangent, Brian Clough always referred to Teddy Sheringham as Edward, "Cos that's the name on you birth certificate son".

My parents named me John and that's the name on my birth certificate and passport. We are from North of the border - am I not really Irish because they decided that I'm not called Sean? Don't be daft
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 08:41:57 AM
Hildegarde Naughton, Mayor of galway. Need we say any more on the subject?
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 31, 2011, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 30, 2011, 08:06:36 PM
as for place names....leave them alone...an essential part of our heritage....very interesting stuff as well...e.g. find out what Sawel Mountain's Irish name is and then check out what it means :o :o

Cracker ;D. Bit like the Scottish mountain which is called Bod an Deamhain. Story goes that Queen Victoria asked a local what the name meant was and he told her the Devil's Point, which is what the mountain is now called in English. Poor translation though ;).
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: spuds on October 31, 2011, 10:31:23 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on October 31, 2011, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 30, 2011, 08:06:36 PM
as for place names....leave them alone...an essential part of our heritage....very interesting stuff as well...e.g. find out what Sawel Mountain's Irish name is and then check out what it means :o :o

Cracker ;D. Bit like the Scottish mountain which is called Bod an Deamhain. Story goes that Queen Victoria asked a local what the name meant was and he told her the Devil's Point, which is what the mountain is now called in English. Poor translation though ;).
There is a Mayo poster on this board that has similar notions of grandeur  :D
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: seafoid on October 31, 2011, 05:00:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 31, 2011, 08:41:57 AM
Hildegarde Naughton, Mayor of galway. Need we say any more on the subject?
Herterich's sausages
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 12:53:14 PM
One of the founding principles of the GAA is the fostering of Irish language and culture. in a society that is dominated by Anglo-American culture it is only right and proper that the GAA promote the language to young and old. If you don't like it then why not go and exclusively follow Anglo-American sports. I for one applaude and encourage the use of Irish in my club, albeit regrettably I am not fluent.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2011, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 12:53:14 PM
One of the founding principles of the GAA is the fostering of Irish language and culture. in a society that is dominated by Anglo-American culture it is only right and proper that the GAA promote the language to young and old. If you don't like it then why not go and exclusively follow Anglo-American sports. I for one applaude and encourage the use of Irish in my club, albeit regrettably I am not fluent.

The last four words of that post perfectly sum up just how effective this little name translation gimmick has been. I'm all in favor of promoting Irish. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The right way is to actually teach it to children when they're young. If the school system isn't going to do it then the GAA could step in and do it. Hell I first started learning Irish at classes hosted at my old GAA club and my only regret is that they didn't start sooner so I could have gotten those lessons when I was younger.

Translating names on team sheets?  I have my doubts about what that's going to do to increase the amount of Irish spoken on the street.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 04:38:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 02, 2011, 04:25:17 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on November 02, 2011, 12:53:14 PM
One of the founding principles of the GAA is the fostering of Irish language and culture. in a society that is dominated by Anglo-American culture it is only right and proper that the GAA promote the language to young and old. If you don't like it then why not go and exclusively follow Anglo-American sports. I for one applaude and encourage the use of Irish in my club, albeit regrettably I am not fluent.

The last four words of that post perfectly sum up just how effective this little name translation gimmick has been. I'm all in favor of promoting Irish. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The right way is to actually teach it to children when they're young. If the school system isn't going to do it then the GAA could step in and do it. Hell I first started learning Irish at classes hosted at my old GAA club and my only regret is that they didn't start sooner so I could have gotten those lessons when I was younger.

Translating names on team sheets?  I have my doubts about what that's going to do to increase the amount of Irish spoken on the street.
I totally disagree, learning even your name in Irish is better than none and our club encourages the use of even a cupla focal where appropriate.
Title: Re: 6 counties fuball and names in Irish
Post by: Applesisapples on November 03, 2011, 09:00:48 AM
Quote from: hardstation on November 02, 2011, 08:56:45 PM
Feeling the need to translate names into Irish for a teamsheet is one thing.

Getting annoyed about it when it isn't you who has to do it is another (or Duine Eile).
I have to do it and take great pleasure in it.