I think it's mentioned elsewhere but it merits it's own thread.
It's not before time someone called them out.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0903/1224303425786.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0903/1224303425786.html)
Great article hits the nail on the head with his comparissons of each pundit from sundays game to their own careers but different eras which makes it hard to compare
so does to wrongs make a right?no matter what way you dress it up and try and compare from mathes in the past nothing gets past the point that last sundays match was the worst match to be ever played in croke park,those example of matches were one offs and totally unlike donegal who played exactly the same every match they played this year, i said it at half time and i will say it again if donegal had got to the final i would have missed the first final in 20 years and every other neutral beside was saying exactly the same so brolly,Spillane and O'Rourke were only saying what everybody else was thinking.and all this conspiracy crap about bias towards Dublin is just pure B S and just lazy journalism IMO.
Great article.
Quote from: isourboydownyet on September 03, 2011, 03:24:05 PM
so does to wrongs make a right?no matter what way you dress it up and try and compare from mathes in the past nothing gets past the point that last sundays match was the worst match to be ever played in croke park,those example of matches were one offs and totally unlike donegal who played exactly the same every match they played this year, i said it at half time and i will say it again if donegal had got to the final i would have missed the first final in 20 years and every other neutral beside was saying exactly the same so brolly,Spillane and O'Rourke were only saying what everybody else was thinking.and all this conspiracy crap about bias towards Dublin is just pure B S and just lazy journalism IMO.
Agree 100%. Hand picking a few bad games and low scoring games from the past does not have anything to do with this game in which 1 team plays 14 men behind the ball.
To be honest, I think he's looking at the analysis of the Donegal game as the straw that broke the camels back.
Spillane is at the same craic every week.
Constantly running down players and teams, saying they don't have the basic skills and spend too much time in the gym.
It's the tried and tested RTE model, be it Gaelic games, soccer or rugby.
Employ pundits to say controversial things, ruffle a few feathers and get the great unwashed chattering.
Spillanes nonsense about "Shi'ite football" was a contemptible piece of soundbite manufacturing, even by his own pathetic standards.
Newstalk have shown how the games can and should be presented.
Intelligent, young, enthusiastic contributors and analysts that actually provide some genuine insight.
No ham-fisted attempts at yokelry, no irrelevant facts about where the players great-grandparents are from.
I can guarantee you'll never hear the phrase 'kick-passing' on Newstalk.
The Sunday Game is geared towards the older generation and people with only a passing interest in the games.
That approach has a limited life-span in an age where there are hundreds of thousands of young, educated people playing and watching the games, who are tired of the same tired old rubbish week in week out.
If the Newstalk lads ever get a television platform to work off, they'll wipe TSG out.
Fantastic read the Sunday game panel have short memories.
Keith Duggan's from Donegal isn't he? or am I mistaken.
Read that article this morning and found myself nodding to myself as I read through it. Brolly is the only one on TSG who provides a bit of insight and fed up to the back teeth of Spillane and his kick passing. Davis is infuriating to listen to as well, it's just a stream of unconsious thoughts that flow out of his gob, which is an unmistakable Cork trait. He wouldn't even let Jason Ryan finish his point the other night before butting in with his waffle. Toss up between himself and Marty for most annoying gobdaw in RTE.
I think his overall point is correct. If Donegal came out and played a 15 v 15 man game the last day they wouldn't have stood a chance. In fact if they played that way they wouldn't be in a semi if we judge them on their last 20 yrs worth of performance.
McGuinness set them up they way he thought got the most out of them. And he's not far wrong. People can call it negative and that ideally its not the way to play football but Donegal don't exist in an ideal world. And Lacey going off was probably a bigger turning point than the sending off but got very little coverage.
And for Spillane to call it Shi'ite and war crimes and stuff like that is insensitive and insulting to a large minority of people. I can't believe he gets away with this cringeworthy stuff that passes as analysis.
Also history has turned the Meath team of O'Rourke's era into heroes despite a style of playing that was distasteful too many. Why is that? Because the won? Or because of a Leinster bias? I don't know.
Donegal aren't the harbingers of Armeggedon any more than Tyrone or Armagh or Meath or anyone else. Generally the best team in the country wins the AI and every other one tries their best along the way but ultimately they fail. And for whats its worth I believe we do have the two best teams in the country in the AI final.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on September 03, 2011, 04:35:42 PM
Keith Duggan's from Donegal isn't he? or am I mistaken.
Yes pretty sure he is Gbb. But his article is spot on and they definately lack class, sitting above in their studio getting their money and having a go at players . Jesus some sunday's it like watching Curley , larry and Moe with the three of them trying to out do each other talking shite
Duggan is from Domnegal but he is also an advocate for the little man and the underdog. Just read "House of Pain and you'll see his affinity with the under achiever.
Wonderful bit of writing.... it was the ABC of journalism... articulate, had bullocks and a bit of class.
One crucial thing to be remembered here is that McGuinness and Donegal are not in the entertainment business.... Spillane et al are.
The three amigos in the studio have an paid obligation to provide some for of entertainment for the masses but McGuinness and Donegal do not have any obligation to entertain the three amigos.
The did what they felt they had to do in order to achieve as much as they felt they were capable of doing.
In my book.... job well done Donegal..... and I am sure that if Jim McGuinness was relived of his duties in Donegal tomorrow more than one county board chairman would be making a call to Glenties to see how the waters lie.
unfortunately duggan will have to go down as yet another journalist who is incapable of addressing a subject in a dispassionate manner. Awful article.
Quote from: irunthev on September 03, 2011, 05:08:31 PM
Duggan is from Domnegal but he is also an advocate for the little man and the underdog. Just read "House of Pain and you'll see his affinity with the under achiever.
Wonderful bit of writing.... it was the ABC of journalism... articulate, had bullocks and a bit of class.
One crucial thing to be remembered here is that McGuinness and Donegal are not in the entertainment business.... Spillane et al are.
The three amigos in the studio have an paid obligation to provide some for of entertainment for the masses but McGuinness and Donegal do not have any obligation to entertain the three amigos.
The did what they felt they had to do in order to achieve as much as they felt they were capable of doing.
In my book.... job well done Donegal..... and I am sure that if Jim McGuinness was relived of his duties in Donegal tomorrow more than one county board chairman would be making a call to Glenties to see how the waters lie.
That's the problem, he will infect some other county with his anti football tripe.
People are getting too hung up on the Donegal angle.
I don't think the article is pro-Donegal so much as it is anti-TSG.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 03, 2011, 05:20:23 PM
unfortunately duggan will have to go down as yet another journalist who is incapable of addressing a subject in a dispassionate manner. Awful article.
Agreed. Completely biased and self serving in sucking up to his own county. Everyone knows Spillane, O'rourke and Brolly are hypocritical and look back with rose tinted glasses. But the that had nothing to do with the shite Donegal served up last Sunday and for most of the 2011 season. Kerry matches of 70s/80s were often one sided and Meath/Cork matches often filthy but neither side ever set out their stall like McGuinness did. It was within the rules but horrible to look at and deserves to be called out for what it was.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 03, 2011, 05:28:13 PM
People are getting too hung up on the Donegal angle.
I don't think the article is pro-Donegal so much as it is anti-TSG.
+1
I'd be interested to see his analysis of TV3's punditry.
Are they setting about developing a siege mentality in Donegal for next year then?
Fair play to KD. Self-serving or not, he's dead right to stick up for his own county.
Quote from: Denn Forever on September 03, 2011, 05:45:55 PM
I'd be interested to see his analysis of TV3's punditry.
I like TV3's analysis to be honest.
David Brady is the only soundbite merchant.
Some people think Hayes is too, but I genuinely think Hayes just says what he thinks.
Not mad about Matt Cooper though.
His constant questioning tone annoys me.
Keith has got it right- I am tired of their lazy analysis,limited awareness ,knee-jerk comments, inconsistencies, arrogance and self-righteousness.No great fan of defensive football but glad someone had the courage to say enough is enough.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2011, 05:23:27 PM
Quote from: irunthev on September 03, 2011, 05:08:31 PM
Duggan is from Domnegal but he is also an advocate for the little man and the underdog. Just read "House of Pain and you'll see his affinity with the under achiever.
Wonderful bit of writing.... it was the ABC of journalism... articulate, had bullocks and a bit of class.
One crucial thing to be remembered here is that McGuinness and Donegal are not in the entertainment business.... Spillane et al are.
The three amigos in the studio have an paid obligation to provide some for of entertainment for the masses but McGuinness and Donegal do not have any obligation to entertain the three amigos.
The did what they felt they had to do in order to achieve as much as they felt they were capable of doing.
In my book.... job well done Donegal..... and I am sure that if Jim McGuinness was relived of his duties in Donegal tomorrow more than one county board chairman would be making a call to Glenties to see how the waters lie.
That's the problem, he will infect some other county with his anti football tripe.
I invested 14 years of my life playing, training and being involved with London. In all that time I probably experienced the taste of victory no more than 6 times, usually in some meaningless league game against Carlow or Kilkenny. What I would have given for someone who had the tactical ability to help us scrape out a few more 0-6 to 0-5 wins to make the whole effort worthwhile.
As an underdog myself, I applaud McGuinness's angle on football and Duggan for defending it... be it biased or not, be it pretty to watch or not. And in the same way that I would have craved just a few more wins with London, so too the Donegal players, the Hegartys , Toyes and Cassidys are glad that McGuinness came along when he did and helped them put an Ulster medal in their pockets.
Further to that, in my time in London week after week Spillane commented in the paper that London shoudn't be in the league because we were hopeless and the games we played in were a waste of time and one-sided... this because we weren't competitive and this from a man who had never seen us play a game in his life.
During that same time in London Jim McGuinness took the opportunity to come and train along with us and provided us with support and the benefit of his knowledge..... albeit only for a few weeks. But at least he had the decency to see what we were all about.
Spillane spouted a few years back about coming over to train London for a few weeks.... Did he? Did he bollix.
He was like the girl I knew way back in my teens...... she talked a good ride.
And I'd happily repeat that to his face.
The Sunday Game pundits can be annoying with some of their analysis but this article is fairly uninteresting. Not really worth the reading time to be honest.
Sure if you gave Spillane 13 rugby league players and two good forwards he'd win the All-Ireland!
Does he even coach anyone these days?
Heard he threw his hat in the ring for the u-21 job in Kerry and didn't get it.
Outstanding piece of writing. For too many years RTE have employed pundits who are selective in their analysis and demeaning of the efforts of the less successful counties.
Are ye so naive that you think this article is just about being critical of Spillane and co?? If Duggan wanted to be critical of them he could have done it last week, last month or last year. But he didn't of course. He only did it when they went to town on his own Donegal, when they said that their brand of football was shite and at the end when they were all delighted Donegal were bet. Apart from a few odd balls on here, they said what everyone in the country was also saying (at least those who hadn't turned over to watch the premiership). This pathetic article is an attempt to defend Donegal by attacking the pundits who slated them instead of addressing what the pundits were saying.
Quote from: irunthev on September 03, 2011, 06:23:09 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2011, 05:23:27 PM
Quote from: irunthev on September 03, 2011, 05:08:31 PM
Duggan is from Domnegal but he is also an advocate for the little man and the underdog. Just read "House of Pain and you'll see his affinity with the under achiever.
Wonderful bit of writing.... it was the ABC of journalism... articulate, had bullocks and a bit of class.
One crucial thing to be remembered here is that McGuinness and Donegal are not in the entertainment business.... Spillane et al are.
The three amigos in the studio have an paid obligation to provide some for of entertainment for the masses but McGuinness and Donegal do not have any obligation to entertain the three amigos.
The did what they felt they had to do in order to achieve as much as they felt they were capable of doing.
In my book.... job well done Donegal..... and I am sure that if Jim McGuinness was relived of his duties in Donegal tomorrow more than one county board chairman would be making a call to Glenties to see how the waters lie.
That's the problem, he will infect some other county with his anti football tripe.
I invested 14 years of my life playing, training and being involved with London. In all that time I probably experienced the taste of victory no more than 6 times, usually in some meaningless league game against Carlow or Kilkenny. What I would have given for someone who had the tactical ability to help us scrape out a few more 0-6 to 0-5 wins to make the whole effort worthwhile.
As an underdog myself, I applaud McGuinness's angle on football and Duggan for defending it... be it biased or not, be it pretty to watch or not. And in the same way that I would have craved just a few more wins with London, so too the Donegal players, the Hegartys , Toyes and Cassidys are glad that McGuinness came along when he did and helped them put an Ulster medal in their pockets.
Further to that, in my time in London week after week Spillane commented in the paper that London shoudn't be in the league because we were hopeless and the games we played in were a waste of time and one-sided... this because we weren't competitive and this from a man who had never seen us play a game in his life.
During that same time in London Jim McGuinness took the opportunity to come and train along with us and provided us with support and the benefit of his knowledge..... albeit only for a few weeks. But at least he had the decency to see what we were all about.
Spillane spouted a few years back about coming over to train London for a few weeks.... Did he? Did he bollix.
He was like the girl I knew way back in my teens...... she talked a good ride.
And I'd happily repeat that to his face.
While your dedication to football in London is commendable, in my opinion your view of this is much too narrow-minded. You, as a player, would have done anything to win including packing your defense if your manager thought it a good idea. Fair enough. The player is there to follow through with a game plan and not decide to change it off their own bat. You also have a severe dislike of Spillane due to some of the things he said about London - I don't blame you. However, just because Spillane has got it wrong before does not mean he is always wrong. I will say it again. Who will watch this sport of ours if more and more teams play like Donegal - cynical, ugly, negative, low scores, no fielding, hardly a score from play etc etc. Will that type of game inspire the young of Ireland to play an amateur game over the professional games like soccer and rugby. Will neutrals tune in on the TV? If not how will the GAA pay for the grounds, the promotion.
I truly believe the vast majoirty of GAA folk do not want their game to go down this road and, with respect, the hunger of a player or players to win can not be allowed to change how the game is played to something that is against what the ordinary members of the association want. I believe that we will see a raft of rule change proposals to try and stop this garbage ever been seen again and I just hope that the all ireland semi final of 2011 has given the GAA rule makers a glimpse of what is down the road unless some rules are introduced to prevent Donegal clones from appearing.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2011, 08:35:48 PM
Are ye so naive that you think this article is just about being critical of Spillane and co?? If Duggan wanted to be critical of them he could have done it last week, last month or last year. But he didn't of course. He only did it when they went to town on his own Donegal, when they said that their brand of football was shite and at the end when they were all delighted Donegal were bet. Apart from a few odd balls on here, they said what everyone in the country was also saying (at least those who hadn't turned over to watch the premiership). This pathetic article is an attempt to defend Donegal by attacking the pundits who slated them instead of addressing what the pundits were saying.
Great post Myles. Its a shit article. You cant compare London to Donegal. Donegal have players available to them other counties would kill for them. They simply chose not to use them.
Quote from: ross matt on September 03, 2011, 05:30:17 PM
Agreed. Completely biased and self serving in sucking up to his own county. Everyone knows Spillane, O'rourke and Brolly are hypocritical and look back with rose tinted glasses. But the that had nothing to do with the shite Donegal served up last Sunday and for most of the 2011 season. Kerry matches of 70s/80s were often one sided and Meath/Cork matches often filthy but neither side ever set out their stall like McGuinness did. It was within the rules but horrible to look at and deserves to be called out for what it was.
Absolutely spot on Ross Matt.
Did Eamon Magee display any class when he rubbed Bernrad Brogans face in the turf after Brogan missed an early goal chance or when he sarcastically tapped Connolly on the back after he was sent off?
Did the bould McGuinnes himself and his mercenary sidekick Gallagher show any class when they ran on the field screaming at the referee that Cian O Sullivan had elbowed a Donegal Player? The ref booked O Sullivan but replays showed he did not elbow anyway?
Marty Boyle didn't show much class either when he conned the ref into sending Connolly off.
Donegal were cynical, cowardly and used unbelievablly negative tacticis last Sunday and this article is only trying to deflect blame. I've lost a lot of respect for Duggan after reading it
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 03, 2011, 08:35:48 PM
Are ye so naive that you think this article is just about being critical of Spillane and co?? If Duggan wanted to be critical of them he could have done it last week, last month or last year. But he didn't of course. He only did it when they went to town on his own Donegal, when they said that their brand of football was shite and at the end when they were all delighted Donegal were bet. Apart from a few odd balls on here, they said what everyone in the country was also saying (at least those who hadn't turned over to watch the premiership). This pathetic article is an attempt to defend Donegal by attacking the pundits who slated them instead of addressing what the pundits were saying.
Bullseye Myles. Well said.
Hasn't been all "puke football" from Donegal, apart from the 1st half of the Kildare v Donegal match it was arguably the most exciting & edge of the seat type of game this summer. In the final you can be sure Dublin will work to their strengths (strong defensive football,high levels of fitness) to try & beat Kerry.
Point is Donegal are only one year into this defensive style & in a few years don't be surprised if it's similar to Dublin's style now.
As one of the few Ulster posters who despise the Armagh inspired, Tyrone developed and Donegal perfected negative appraoch to gaelic football I have to say that Duggan's article stopped me in my tracks and I thought - yes - sh**e football started a lone time ago.
The TV remnants of the Kerry team who, let it be said, relied on the Bomber creating havoc so that lesser mortals could hand-pass the ball to the net, and the blatantly cynical Meath team which seems to have spawned more pundits than most, and the lucky Derry winners who benefited from Cork's "ultra of the time" diirty challenge that led to his much more effective teammate's dismissal and handed the oakleafers an all-ireland, these guys are (through the might of a very big television presence in a small pool) attemptimg to carve out for themselves some sort of celebrity status at the expense of amateur sportsmen who are entitled to a bit more respect.
And naive GAA clubmen up and down the country are craving to have these carpetbaggers as their "celebrity" guests at annual functions instead of some of the great but unsung footall and hurling heroes that do not crave such attention.
For Joe Brolly read Eamon Dunphy. O'Rourke thinks he is Johnny Giles. Spillane is ...... (fill in your own opinion).
A load of self serving rubbish from Duggan trying to defend his own county. Strange there's no mention in his article that he is from Donegal - at least that would have been honest of him.
Spillane, Brolly and O'Rourke are paid to voice their opinions. t's the nature of their business that they overstate their opinions from time to time as Dunphy does with soccer and Hook with rugby. In essence they were absolutely correct in regard to Doengal's negative approach and also in regard to the cynical bull sh*t behavious of many of the Donegal players from start to finish of that game.
It was the worst game of football I have ever attended and if football is going this direction myself, my kids and the lads I go to the games with will not be paying in to watch it.
Mr Duggan might try to look at the bigger picture and be a bit more honest about his motives in voicing his opinions.
Quote from: Leo on September 03, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
As one of the few Ulster posters who despise the Armagh inspired, Tyrone developed and Donegal perfected negative appraoch to gaelic football I have to say that Duggan's article stopped me in my tracks and I thought - yes - sh**e football started a lone time ago.
The TV remnants of the Kerry team who, let it be said, relied on the Bomber creating havoc so that lesser mortals could hand-pass the ball to the net, and the blatantly cynical Meath team which seems to have spawned more pundits than most, and the lucky Derry winners who benefited from Cork's "ultra of the time" diirty challenge that led to his much more effective teammate's dismissal and handed the oakleafers an all-ireland, these guys are (through the might of a very big television presence in a small pool) attemptimg to carve out for themselves some sort of celebrity status at the expense of amateur sportsmen who are entitled to a bit more respect.
And naive GAA clubmen up and down the country are craving to have these carpetbaggers as their "celebrity" guests at annual functions instead of some of the great but unsung footall and hurling heroes that do not crave such attention.
For Joe Brolly read Eamon Dunphy. O'Rourke thinks he is Johnny Giles. Spillane is ...... (fill in your own opinion).
Oh jesus.
Don't set Myles off.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 03, 2011, 10:15:11 PM
Quote from: Leo on September 03, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
As one of the few Ulster posters who despise the Armagh inspired, Tyrone developed and Donegal perfected negative appraoch to gaelic football I have to say that Duggan's article stopped me in my tracks and I thought - yes - sh**e football started a lone time ago.
The TV remnants of the Kerry team who, let it be said, relied on the Bomber creating havoc so that lesser mortals could hand-pass the ball to the net, and the blatantly cynical Meath team which seems to have spawned more pundits than most, and the lucky Derry winners who benefited from Cork's "ultra of the time" diirty challenge that led to his much more effective teammate's dismissal and handed the oakleafers an all-ireland, these guys are (through the might of a very big television presence in a small pool) attemptimg to carve out for themselves some sort of celebrity status at the expense of amateur sportsmen who are entitled to a bit more respect.
And naive GAA clubmen up and down the country are craving to have these carpetbaggers as their "celebrity" guests at annual functions instead of some of the great but unsung footall and hurling heroes that do not crave such attention.
For Joe Brolly read Eamon Dunphy. O'Rourke thinks he is Johnny Giles. Spillane is ...... (fill in your own opinion).
Oh jesus.
Don't set Myles off.
:D
The fact that Keith Duggan is from Donegal completely ruins the article for me.
This would have been a much more credible article had he written it before this year. Bottom line is that whilst Spillane is an absolute bollix, he has gained huge support this year with his forthright comments on Donegal... Most of the country agree with his sentiment apart from Donegal people and a few pockets within Ulster. With McGuinness at the helm Donegal are quickly becoming the most hated county in Ireland and one that many will enjoy beating. The likes of Donegal man Keith Duggan does little to alleviate this!
Proposal: That we ban the use of the lazy catchword "cynical" from this forum. We are better than that. If we want to be critical we have a duty to be original. Do I have a seconder?
Brolly and Spillane articulated, albeit in a typical headline grabbing RTE manner, what a lot of people were thinking during that first half. Perhaps Mr Duggan should save some of his ire for those peasants who shared their concerns about the manner of McGuinness' tactics. He mentions the 0-8 to 0-6 Derry/Donegal game. It was played in atrocious conditions. It was also played between the reigning All-Ireland champions and the future All-Ireland champions and no quarter given was the lasting memory. Real tough head-to-head football. And what has the poisonous atmosphere got to do with anything. Duggan completely veered off his initial point here, within a short paragraph. I also don't get the reasoning behind mentioning the Kerry dominance of the 80s and the same old faces.
He mentions the handpass tally RTE were regularly showing especially in the first half and attempts to compare that to Spillane's team's handpassed goals. There's no merit in this analogy. You were allowed to do that and it doesn't attempt to compare the quantity during a game.
The association football and baseball point has no relevance to gaelic football. Finally, if he thinks Spillane et al should apologise to McGuinness, do we all have to as well - or those who felt the same way?
By the way - Myles, do you ever get invited to parties?
In Meath?
Posted this on another forum,sums up my feelings on the matter. I'm not a particular fan of Spillane's pre-prepared lines and schtick either by the way and he should be told to give that stuff a rest.
There's a huge amount in that piece that I disagree with to be honest. Some of it is right of course..the non-showing of the hit on Lacey was just another in the line of errors and coverage mistakes by RTE.
Duggan has got on his high horse a bit here and needs a reality check..99% of people if asked straight after that game last Sunday to sum up the game in one sentence would have said "that was sh*t" or words to that effect, and it WAS really dire stuff. I understand why Donegal did it,but I am glad it didn't succeed. The RTE panel are paid to give their views on the game (and not to be reserved lets be honest) and in this case I happen to agree with their verdicts, even if there was extravagant terms used by Spillane as usual to describe it.
The digs Duggan has at the 3 amigos are fairly weak aswell.
Spillane - Played a semi final once that had a paltry attendance?
Brolly - Once played an Ulster final in a monsoon that had the same score as last Sunday??
O'Rourke - Played in a All Irelands that were very physical/dirty with Meath.?
Even at their most tense and edgy in 1990, Cork and Meath scored 11 and 9 points respectively and produced some good passages of football...there was very little good to take out of the game last Sunday.
Quote from: Hardy on September 04, 2011, 12:14:53 AM
By the way - Myles, do you ever get invited to parties?
I've told you before I'm not your type. Try Jinxy or Joe shierdan, they might go with you!
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 04, 2011, 03:50:12 AM
Posted this on another forum,sums up my feelings on the matter. I'm not a particular fan of Spillane's pre-prepared lines and schtick either by the way and he should be told to give that stuff a rest.
There's a huge amount in that piece that I disagree with to be honest. Some of it is right of course..the non-showing of the hit on Lacey was just another in the line of errors and coverage mistakes by RTE.
Duggan has got on his high horse a bit here and needs a reality check..99% of people if asked straight after that game last Sunday to sum up the game in one sentence would have said "that was sh*t" or words to that effect, and it WAS really dire stuff. I understand why Donegal did it,but I am glad it didn't succeed. The RTE panel are paid to give their views on the game (and not to be reserved lets be honest) and in this case I happen to agree with their verdicts, even if there was extravagant terms used by Spillane as usual to describe it.
The digs Duggan has at the 3 amigos are fairly weak aswell.
Spillane - Played a semi final once that had a paltry attendance?
Brolly - Once played an Ulster final in a monsoon that had the same score as last Sunday??
O'Rourke - Played in a All Irelands that were very physical/dirty with Meath.?
Even at their most tense and edgy in 1990, Cork and Meath scored 11 and 9 points respectively and produced some good passages of football...there was very little good to take out of the game last Sunday.
great post to be fair, totally agree. i too thought he was grasping at straws in those highlighted parts
Quote from: Jinxy on September 03, 2011, 04:21:12 PM
To be honest, I think he's looking at the analysis of the Donegal game as the straw that broke the camels back.
Spillane is at the same craic every week.
Constantly running down players and teams, saying they don't have the basic skills and spend too much time in the gym.
It's the tried and tested RTE model, be it Gaelic games, soccer or rugby.
Employ pundits to say controversial things, ruffle a few feathers and get the great unwashed chattering.
Spillanes nonsense about "Shi'ite football" was a contemptible piece of soundbite manufacturing, even by his own pathetic standards.
Newstalk have shown how the games can and should be presented.
Intelligent, young, enthusiastic contributors and analysts that actually provide some genuine insight.
No ham-fisted attempts at yokelry, no irrelevant facts about where the players great-grandparents are from.
I can guarantee you'll never hear the phrase 'kick-passing' on Newstalk.
The Sunday Game is geared towards the older generation and people with only a passing interest in the games.
That approach has a limited life-span in an age where there are hundreds of thousands of young, educated people playing and watching the games, who are tired of the same tired old rubbish week in week out.
If the Newstalk lads ever get a television platform to work off, they'll wipe TSG out.
TV3 should poach McDevitt from Newstalk as their GAA anchor. Good as Matt Cooper is on the last word, he is obviously a sports fan but not insightful enough. Canavan is good, Dara O'Se would be a good addition as a pundit and Kieran Shannon formerly of the Tribune.
This line up would wipe the floor with RTE.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 04, 2011, 03:50:12 AM
Posted this on another forum,sums up my feelings on the matter. I'm not a particular fan of Spillane's pre-prepared lines and schtick either by the way and he should be told to give that stuff a rest.
There's a huge amount in that piece that I disagree with to be honest. Some of it is right of course..the non-showing of the hit on Lacey was just another in the line of errors and coverage mistakes by RTE.
Duggan has got on his high horse a bit here and needs a reality check..99% of people if asked straight after that game last Sunday to sum up the game in one sentence would have said "that was sh*t" or words to that effect, and it WAS really dire stuff. I understand why Donegal did it,but I am glad it didn't succeed. The RTE panel are paid to give their views on the game (and not to be reserved lets be honest) and in this case I happen to agree with their verdicts, even if there was extravagant terms used by Spillane as usual to describe it.
The digs Duggan has at the 3 amigos are fairly weak aswell.
Spillane - Played a semi final once that had a paltry attendance?
Brolly - Once played an Ulster final in a monsoon that had the same score as last Sunday??
O'Rourke - Played in a All Irelands that were very physical/dirty with Meath.?
Even at their most tense and edgy in 1990, Cork and Meath scored 11 and 9 points respectively and produced some good passages of football...there was very little good to take out of the game last Sunday.
My thought's exactly. Thanks for saving me the bother. The bit I've put in bold is the key for me. FWIW, I actually think Donegal will refine this approach next year, to be a bit more dangerous offensively, so this might be the low water mark for Donegal.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 04, 2011, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 04, 2011, 03:50:12 AM
Posted this on another forum,sums up my feelings on the matter. I'm not a particular fan of Spillane's pre-prepared lines and schtick either by the way and he should be told to give that stuff a rest.
There's a huge amount in that piece that I disagree with to be honest. Some of it is right of course..the non-showing of the hit on Lacey was just another in the line of errors and coverage mistakes by RTE.
Duggan has got on his high horse a bit here and needs a reality check..99% of people if asked straight after that game last Sunday to sum up the game in one sentence would have said "that was sh*t" or words to that effect, and it WAS really dire stuff. I understand why Donegal did it,but I am glad it didn't succeed. The RTE panel are paid to give their views on the game (and not to be reserved lets be honest) and in this case I happen to agree with their verdicts, even if there was extravagant terms used by Spillane as usual to describe it.
The digs Duggan has at the 3 amigos are fairly weak aswell.
Spillane - Played a semi final once that had a paltry attendance?
Brolly - Once played an Ulster final in a monsoon that had the same score as last Sunday??
O'Rourke - Played in a All Irelands that were very physical/dirty with Meath.?
Even at their most tense and edgy in 1990, Cork and Meath scored 11 and 9 points respectively and produced some good passages of football...there was very little good to take out of the game last Sunday.
My thought's exactly. Thanks for saving me the bother. The bit I've put in bold is the key for me. FWIW, I actually think Donegal will refine this approach next year, to be a bit more dangerous offensively, so this might be the low water mark for Donegal.
they arent capable AZ without a complete overhaul of the team.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 03, 2011, 04:53:33 PM
Read that article this morning and found myself nodding to myself as I read through it. Brolly is the only one on TSG who provides a bit of insight and fed up to the back teeth of Spillane and his kick passing. Davis is infuriating to listen to as well, it's just a stream of unconsious thoughts that flow out of his gob, which is an unmistakable Cork trait. He wouldn't even let Jason Ryan finish his point the other night before butting in with his waffle. Toss up between himself and Marty for most annoying gobdaw in RTE.
Agreed! Any former player calling a team "losers" should be sacked. You would NEVER hear the hurling pundits describing a team in that way. Amazing how the "losers" knocked his team off their perch!
I don't know Indiana. Playing McBrearty, Murphy and McFadden as forwards might be the only tweak they need.
Quote from: oneoftheseyears on September 04, 2011, 12:35:27 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 03, 2011, 04:53:33 PM
Read that article this morning and found myself nodding to myself as I read through it. Brolly is the only one on TSG who provides a bit of insight and fed up to the back teeth of Spillane and his kick passing. Davis is infuriating to listen to as well, it's just a stream of unconsious thoughts that flow out of his gob, which is an unmistakable Cork trait. He wouldn't even let Jason Ryan finish his point the other night before butting in with his waffle. Toss up between himself and Marty for most annoying gobdaw in RTE.
Agreed! Any former player calling a team "losers" should be sacked. You would NEVER hear the hurling pundits describing a team in that way. Amazing how the "losers" knocked his team off their perch!
He didn't take too kindly to Brolly calling his beloved Cork a "dumb" team.
The contrast between the hurling and football pundits is stark. The hurling guys are nearly salivating at the skelping that is likely in the first 10 minutes or so. And pointing out that at the end everyone will shake hands and forget about it.
The football Nualas would be invoking our Lord, the saints and all the angels to prevent any raw emotion at all. And tonight, the football lads would glory in highlighting any malfeasance, while the hurlers will be going on about 'you get that in the heat of the moment' type of commentary.
I know which I prefer, and it isn't Pat, Colm and Joe.
Well said AZ Offaly.. Three Unhappy middle aged men ,mid life crisis exasperated that they have not produced heirs to their halos.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 04, 2011, 02:41:02 PM
The contrast between the hurling and football pundits is stark. The hurling guys are nearly salivating at the skelping that is likely in the first 10 minutes or so. And pointing out that at the end everyone will shake hands and forget about it.
The football Nualas would be invoking our Lord, the saints and all the angels to prevent any raw emotion at all. And tonight, the football lads would glory in highlighting any malfeasance, while the hurlers will be going on about 'you get that in the heat of the moment' type of commentary.
I know which I prefer, and it isn't Pat, Colm and Joe.
Brilliant. We needed a good hook.
Nuala Spillane.
Nuala O'Rourke.
Nuala Brolly.
;D
Quote from: samwin08 on September 04, 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Well said AZ Offaly.. Three Unhappy middle aged men ,mid life crisis exasperated that they have not produced heirs to their halos.
One of them has.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 04, 2011, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: samwin08 on September 04, 2011, 03:02:34 PM
Well said AZ Offaly.. Three Unhappy middle aged men ,mid life crisis exasperated that they have not produced heirs to their halos.
One of them has.
Not yet Jinxy. When Shane O'Rourke holds say Eoin Cadogan ( rather than Niall Cahalane) down on the ground with his left while thumping him with the right he will be his fathers heir.
Entirely in favour of this BTW.
Murphy was back on form today, great goal for Glenswilly to beat St Eunan's - see it here - http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5 (http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5)
Quote from: Any craic on September 04, 2011, 09:17:21 PM
Murphy was back on form today, great goal for Glenswilly to beat St Eunan's - see it here - http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5 (http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5)
Jerome, what on earth has your latest video got to do with this thread?!
Quote from: Any craic on September 04, 2011, 09:17:21 PM
Murphy was back on form today, great goal for Glenswilly to beat St Eunan's - see it here - http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5 (http://tinyurl.com/3u86zd5)
Must have been an own goal, doesn't he play full back these days.
there's a lot of talk about the beauty of the game being sullied, but i'm struggling to see what all that's about. as far as i can make out, there's not a lot of champagne football being consistently played by any county these days. this year, games between teams playing the traditional type of game, the type of game a lot of posters on here are protectiive off, have largely been uninspiring and underwhelming. most counties have one or two players that are good to watch, and of a game you'll see the odd flash of brilliance here and there, but the overall team performance has been wanting and these are not entralling games to watch. i find them like watching lower order semi-pro soccer sides trying and failing to get it all together. the standard is not something that takes your breath away. as contests, they just don't compel in terms of the skills on show, nor does the physical demands required jar you much at all. on the other hand, the hardest fought games have been wonderful to behold, full of drama and fantastic exhibitions of fitness and endeavour. tbh, most of the time i find the games played in the traditional way boring. there's nothing strategically interesting about them and a lot of it is just plain dull.
Quote from: oneoftheseyears on September 04, 2011, 12:35:27 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 03, 2011, 04:53:33 PM
Read that article this morning and found myself nodding to myself as I read through it. Brolly is the only one on TSG who provides a bit of insight and fed up to the back teeth of Spillane and his kick passing. Davis is infuriating to listen to as well, it's just a stream of unconsious thoughts that flow out of his gob, which is an unmistakable Cork trait. He wouldn't even let Jason Ryan finish his point the other night before butting in with his waffle. Toss up between himself and Marty for most annoying gobdaw in RTE.
Agreed! Any former player calling a team "losers" should be sacked. You would NEVER hear the hurling pundits describing a team in that way. Amazing how the "losers" knocked his team off their perch!
It was after the Cork game he called them "losers" though and imo he did it to rile them up ahead of the Kerry game. Out of order but he's only following Nuala Spillane's lead there in using his profile to try and influence a match. Speaking of which, can I propose Davis be formally admitted into the Football Nuala's on the basis of being a particularly annoying little bollox?
taking a step back from the 'debate' - for me the Sunday game and the punditry on it are really traditionally Irish.
If this scenario was transported to soccer or rugby etc , the pundits on telly would say almost the opposite of what spillane et all are moaning about.
the rugby guys would be applauding a 'new system' that has brought a team from nowhere to become contenders and maybe applaud how the game has been 're-invented' and create a few new buzz words to make the new style sound sexy and exciting in spite of the fact that it means there is less scores and less actual passages of entertaining play in the game than before.
In soccer - the dunphy giles mob would moan loudly at the new system and hurl abuse and most likely their glass tumblers at the big screen.
The Kenny cunningham , ronnie whelan etc mob would also applaud the new 'style' and claim the management are the new successors to Pep guardiola, fergie and wenger.
Only in Ireland do we run down new systems, innovation and success. Only in the GAA do we completely begrudge and bemoan such things (Dunphy is a Gaa follower as well).
Sunday game pundits are clowns, and are there to entertain. They couldnt coach feck all and despite success at schools , ORourke is mediocre as a manager at best. St Pats navan have the best players in co meath going to that school and their failure each season under Orourke is more f a disgrace than anything else given the talent they have !
rant over!
would be great to see the Newstalk lads on a TGAA/sports TV programme !
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on September 05, 2011, 11:22:05 AMSpeaking of which, can I propose Davis be formally admitted into the Football Nuala's on the basis of being a particularly annoying little bollox?
Davis is way beyond Nualadom. He'd be a Nuala's mammy.
Or an old spinster aunt.
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/TSGNualas3.jpg)
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 01:09:57 AM
there's a lot of talk about the beauty of the game being sullied, but i'm struggling to see what all that's about. as far as i can make out, there's not a lot of champagne football being consistently played by any county these days. this year, games between teams playing the traditional type of game, the type of game a lot of posters on here are protectiive off, have largely been uninspiring and underwhelming. most counties have one or two players that are good to watch, and of a game you'll see the odd flash of brilliance here and there, but the overall team performance has been wanting and these are not entralling games to watch. i find them like watching lower order semi-pro soccer sides trying and failing to get it all together. the standard is not something that takes your breath away. as contests, they just don't compel in terms of the skills on show, nor does the physical
demands required jar you much at all. on the other hand, the hardest fought games have been wonderful to behold, full of drama and fantastic exhibitions of fitness and endeavour. tbh, most of the time i find the games played in the traditional way boring. there's nothing strategically interesting about them and a lot of it is just plain dull.
If you believe that then you're no fan of football. There were a number of good games this year and loads last year. The worst thing about Donegal's style of play is that to beat it you have to mirror it. It's nonsense to claim inventive coaches can break it down as Donegal are simply filling up the scoring zone with bodies and won't come out. So to beat them you have to keep players back and hope you pick up a few handy frees or a goal to win the game.
There is nothing inventive, courageous or exciting about Donegal's tactics. It is simply filling up the scoring zone which reduces the need for individual defensive ability and needs no attacking strategy. The only good thing is it won't be successful in the longterm.
Steady on Zulu. Did you have a stroke? That was an abrupt end to the sentence :)
QuoteIf you believe that then you're no fan of football. There were a number of good games this year and l
I was hoping I'd have finished it off before anyone spotted it!! Have you no work to be doing??? :D
Keith Duggan is very sharp. He skewered O Rourke, Brolly and Spillane so elegantly.
The RTE coverage is really jaded. It's smugness all the way.
Spillane wouldn't get the job if it was private sector. He's a buffoon.
Gaelic football today is a real mess. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a sport.
Hurling is far more sure of itself.
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2011, 04:02:06 PM
Keith Duggan is very sharp. He skewered O Rourke, Brolly and Spillane so elegantly.
The RTE coverage is really jaded. It's smugness all the way.
Spillane wouldn't get the job if it was private sector. He's a buffoon.
Gaelic football today is a real mess. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a sport.
Hurling is far more sure of itself.
It isn't in Galway anyway. :P
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 01:09:57 AM
there's a lot of talk about the beauty of the game being sullied, but i'm struggling to see what all that's about. as far as i can make out, there's not a lot of champagne football being consistently played by any county these days. this year, games between teams playing the traditional type of game, the type of game a lot of posters on here are protectiive off, have largely been uninspiring and underwhelming. most counties have one or two players that are good to watch, and of a game you'll see the odd flash of brilliance here and there, but the overall team performance has been wanting and these are not entralling games to watch. i find them like watching lower order semi-pro soccer sides trying and failing to get it all together. the standard is not something that takes your breath away. as contests, they just don't compel in terms of the skills on show, nor does the physical
demands required jar you much at all. on the other hand, the hardest fought games have been wonderful to behold, full of drama and fantastic exhibitions of fitness and endeavour. tbh, most of the time i find the games played in the traditional way boring. there's nothing strategically interesting about them and a lot of it is just plain dull.
If you believe that then you're no fan of football. There were a number of good games this year and loads last year. The worst thing about Donegal's style of play is that to beat it you have to mirror it. It's nonsense to claim inventive coaches can break it down as Donegal are simply filling up the scoring zone with bodies and won't come out. So to beat them you have to keep players back and hope you pick up a few handy frees or a goal to win the game.
There is nothing inventive, courageous or exciting about Donegal's tactics. It is simply filling up the scoring zone which reduces the need for individual defensive ability and needs no attacking strategy. The only good thing is it won't be successful in the longterm.
i geddit. if i don't agree you, i'm no fan of football. what nonsense. being critical of something can come from a deep love of something to be all that it aspires to be and can be. your argument is like the one you hear from those who say being critical of a government is unpatriotic and therefore this criticism can only come from someone who doesn't belong to the country they are criticising.
and i disagree with you every thing else too btw. i can't even be bothered to say why i disagree with you because it's clear you've made your mind up about what attributes are worthwhile and what aren't.
some quotes for all the positive types on the board to get stuck into. enjoy!
http://www.quotegarden.com/change.html
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2011, 04:02:06 PM
Keith Duggan is very sharp. He skewered O Rourke, Brolly and Spillane so elegantly.
The RTE coverage is really jaded. It's smugness all the way.
Spillane wouldn't get the job if it was private sector. He's a buffoon.
Gaelic football today is a real mess. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a sport.
Hurling is far more sure of itself.
It isn't in Galway anyway. :P
I was trying to figure out what went wrong in Meath. Was it a misallocation of resources from fuball and teaching to shopping centre construction ?
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 05, 2011, 01:20:45 PM
(http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c358/AZOffaly/TSGNualas3.jpg)
Jebus! Nuala Brolly had a fake tan tsunami.
Some cleavage on O'Rourke though.
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
Well said zulu. Cadence is away with the fairies
These Nualas are using their "erotic capital" to earn €1000.00 to €1500.00 a shift of our TV licence. Shame on RTE for allowing this. [Edited Mod3].
Samwin08, I have no problems with people giving their opinion on these lads as pundits, and their style of punditry, but some things are out of bounds and that is one of them.
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
sorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
and just on the fitness. donegal are noticeably fitter and much better to watch nowadays as a consequence of the tactics than before. we have purpose and are organised, put it up to teams and play our football when we've earned our opportunities rather than leaving having opportunities in the lap of the gods of football. there's that added dimension of leaving every last ounce on the field, which doesn't happen if you're well beaten and have given up the ghost. mcguinness's tactics fail without supreme fitness and effort, and seeing this is absorbing.
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
sorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
and just on the fitness. donegal are noticeably fitter and much better to watch nowadays as a consequence of the tactics than before. we have purpose and are organised, put it up to teams and play our football when we've earned our opportunities rather than leaving having opportunities in the lap of the gods of football. there's that added dimension of leaving every last ounce on the field, which doesn't happen if you're well beaten and have given up the ghost. mcguinness's tactics fail without supreme fitness and effort, and seeing this is absorbing.
Well said Cadence . And not a Fairy in sight.
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2011, 05:24:03 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 05, 2011, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2011, 04:02:06 PM
Keith Duggan is very sharp. He skewered O Rourke, Brolly and Spillane so elegantly.
The RTE coverage is really jaded. It's smugness all the way.
Spillane wouldn't get the job if it was private sector. He's a buffoon.
Gaelic football today is a real mess. It doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a sport.
Hurling is far more sure of itself.
It isn't in Galway anyway. :P
I was trying to figure out what went wrong in Meath. Was it a misallocation of resources from fuball and teaching to shopping centre construction ?
Too many fancy dans.
Quotesorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
.
First off where have I told you what my idea of football is, so how do you know if I'm right or wrong? Secondly there are no tactics that can beat Donegal's style in a positive way, youngest have to dog it out them and hope you get 1-6 or 1-7 to win the scrap. Anyway you're defending Donegal's style by speculating it may make football better in the future is nonsensical.
Quote+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
I can only presume you're a wealthy man from betting on football if you knew the result of games played in the traditional manner? I've no problem with different tactics or innovators pushing the boundaries of the game but that's not what Donegal are doing. They are going for the easy option - fill up the scoring zone with players and turn the game into a dog fight, it's the tactics of a bad junior team. It's nonsense to presume Donegal would be beaten if they played a more open brand of football. Ye could have been beaten by both Kildare and Tyrone so no system guarantees anything but one which shows a bit of courage to go win a game will always give you a chance.
Donegal enjoyed a bit of success and fair dues to ye but don't try to convince us that yer tactics produce good games or are good for football. Enjoy your success but if ye continue to play football as ye have this year you will be the most unpopular team in recent GAA history. I know I won't be shouting for ye despite all that 'endeavour'.
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 10:34:01 PM
Quotesorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
.
First off where have I told you what my idea of football is, so how do you know if I'm right or wrong? Secondly there are no tactics that can beat Donegal's style in a positive way, youngest have to dog it out them and hope you get 1-6 or 1-7 to win the scrap. Anyway you're defending Donegal's style by speculating it may make football better in the future is nonsensical.
Quote+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
I can only presume you're a wealthy man from betting on football if you knew the result of games played in the traditional manner? I've no problem with different tactics or innovators pushing the boundaries of the game but that's not what Donegal are doing. They are going for the easy option - fill up the scoring zone with players and turn the game into a dog fight, it's the tactics of a bad junior team. It's nonsense to presume Donegal would be beaten if they played a more open brand of football. Ye could have been beaten by both Kildare and Tyrone so no system guarantees anything but one which shows a bit of courage to go win a game will always give you a chance.
Donegal enjoyed a bit of success and fair dues to ye but don't try to convince us that yer tactics produce good games or are good for football. Enjoy your success but if ye continue to play football as ye have this year you will be the most unpopular team in recent GAA history. I know I won't be shouting for ye despite all that 'endeavour'.
ok, explain to me what you mean by... "The worst thing about Donegal's style of play is that to beat it you have to mirror it". i must have been mistaken before and that by this statement you meant it as a glowing reference. i'm sorry, but also, how is anyone supposed to take a statement like that seriously as if it's a proven fact! and on the subject of donegal's new tactics and whether we would have beaten kildare and tyrone playing without them and more open football, that's an impossible thing to prove either for or against, so why make such a comparison when it makes no sense. you could have chosen to see the advances that were made by donegal this year but you chose not to think about it positively and came up with an example of how donegal could have beaten tyrone and kildare in some parrallel universe with the old tactics that left us with bare cupboards for 19 years. necessity is the mother of invention as they say. + i'd say we're doing a darn sight better with jim this year. so forgive us for believing in jim and his bad junior side tactics as you see them.
finally, you don't convince me one bit that you are open to different tactics or innovators pushing the boundaries of the game. in fact, it's the absolute opposite. we can't just pick and chose who the innovators are because we don't like what they represent, or we don't understand them, or because we are being obstructive and negative purely because we wish to save face to avoid climbing down from our dug-in positions. whatever the reason is, we can try to prevent innovators from having their ideas become accepted for what they are, the new, but personal taste surely can't be a reliable assessment of their benefits. anyway, all the whinging and moaning and calling shite and bad and the ruination of all things good doesn't change the fact that these new ideas have changed how we think for good. so actually, whatever you think, it doesn't matter. it's like a finger trying to stop the already bursting dam.
Quote from: Goldengreen on September 05, 2011, 09:33:20 PM
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
sorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
and just on the fitness. donegal are noticeably fitter and much better to watch nowadays as a consequence of the tactics than before. we have purpose and are organised, put it up to teams and play our football when we've earned our opportunities rather than leaving having opportunities in the lap of the gods of football. there's that added dimension of leaving every last ounce on the field, which doesn't happen if you're well beaten and have given up the ghost. mcguinness's tactics fail without supreme fitness and effort, and seeing this is absorbing.
Well said Cadence . And not a Fairy in sight.
any of them biscuits?
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
sorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
and just on the fitness. donegal are noticeably fitter and much better to watch nowadays as a consequence of the tactics than before. we have purpose and are organised, put it up to teams and play our football when we've earned our opportunities rather than leaving having opportunities in the lap of the gods of football. there's that added dimension of leaving every last ounce on the field, which doesn't happen if you're well beaten and have given up the ghost. mcguinness's tactics fail without supreme fitness and effort, and seeing this is absorbing.
Ok, first off, as a neutral, Donegal were worse than I've ever seen to watch this year, they are a big, football focused county that have produced some fantastic players over the years and ironically this team contains some players who are as good as any out there, but this year, especially in the dublin game, they were atrocious to watch.
The bolded bits, are nonsensical.
There was nothing "complex or nuanced" about Donegal's tactics, in fact they ultimately cost Donegal the game. Havign 13 men in your own half of the field and one of the best full forwards in the country in your own half back line is not complex, it is just ultra negative, Its nothing new either, many teams have tried it and no team has ever won an All ireland with it.
You say "clever tactics" even the gap between teams? If Donegal had played football like they were doing for most of the league, they would have beaten Dublin in my opinion...they had Murphy at the edge of the square, McFadden feeding off him and they KICKED the ball a lot more...therefore, you can say that the tactic of Murphy not even entering the attacking half of the field more than 5 times looks pretty stupid in hindsight doesn't it?
Finally "what would be dull becomes something else altogether".??? You think the Dublin v Donegal game wasn't dull....what games have you seen that were dull in the semi final/final in recent years tell me? Because since the Mayo v Fermanagh game in 2004 I haven't seen a game nearly as bad as Dublin v Donegal.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 01:29:59 AM
There was nothing "complex or nuanced" about Donegal's tactics, in fact they ultimately cost Donegal the game. Havign 13 men in your own half of the field and one of the best full forwards in the country in your own half back line is not complex, it is just ultra negative, Its nothing new either, many teams have tried it and no team has ever won an All ireland with it.
have to say , while not as defensively pronounced as Donegal, I'd have to mention that Kerry and Tyrone spring to mind ...plus if Dublin win this season, this will be a third county- that plays a very defensive strategy- to win the AI....
Unless the rules are very badly skewed, sport tends to have a natural justice about it. Jim McGuinness seems like an intelligent man and he will realise that if he wants to progress with that Donegal team then what they produced against Dublin wont ever bring them an all ireland title. And I assume that has to be the ultimate ambition. I think he will use the confidence built up among his squad this season that they believe they are just as good as anyone else and the abuse that has been levelled at them as a motivator to bring their game to a different place next year. I would be pretty sure his strategic plan extended far beyond one year.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 01:29:59 AM
There was nothing "complex or nuanced" about Donegal's tactics, in fact they ultimately cost Donegal the game. Havign 13 men in your own half of the field and one of the best full forwards in the country in your own half back line is not complex, it is just ultra negative, Its nothing new either, many teams have tried it and no team has ever won an All ireland with it.
have to say , while not as defensively pronounced as Donegal, I'd have to mention that Kerry and Tyrone spring to mind ...plus if Dublin win this season, this will be a third county- that plays a very defensive strategy- to win the AI....
I'm sorry, but no..even at their most frenzied level of desperation to win an AI in 2003, Tyrone were not as bad as Donegal the last day IMO...And thats from a Kerry man who was disgusted coming out of croker when they beat us.
Kerry? The 2nd half of the '09 final is the only period I've ever seen Kerry go defensive, but there were always 3 attackers left up at least in that case also...and there was plenty constructive attacking play by them in that half also,therefore - no correlation whatsoever with Donegal.
Dublin will not win by being overly defensive either and I'm sure Gilroy will realise this...If they are to win, they need Connolly and the 2 Brogans firing on all cylinders within 40 yards of goal, NOT around the half back line!
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 01:29:59 AM
Quote from: cadence on September 05, 2011, 08:11:35 PM
Quote from: Zulu on September 05, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Eh???
You said you find 'traditional' games, which I presume you mean 15 v 15 games, uninspiring and that teams only have one or two skilful players. That sounds like a man who isn't much of a football fan. I never said it was because we disagree and only someone who wants to be insulted would interpret that way.
What else do you disagree with? You claim you can't be bothered because I've my mind made up yet you laud one kind of football and label other types boring, so which of us our mind made up?
You're a donegal man and it is understandable you might defend them but this isn't about Donegal but about the style of football they currently play. You can talk all you like about 'fitness and endeavour' but most of us want that and more and we can have it. Donegal's football is unimaginative and full of fear, the Kildare game was tremendous, the Dublin game was fascinating in some ways but most of Donegal's games lacked everything you claim they had.
sorry, but eh back! and excuse me for disagreeing, but your idea of how football should be played is wrong. it's too definitive to me. i would have thought that it must help teams and improve football to become better at attacking in the quest to find new ways to overcome these tactics. and that the game will evolve for the better because of this. so you know, perhaps the future of the game is in the safe hands, and that's in the hands of teams who want to win and be competitive. it is competitive sport we're talking about here, right?
+ regardless of what it is, there is less to be interested about something if you know how things will end. that's just the way it is and there just is limited interest in games where the usual tactics are played. of course there is something to keep the interest in any football game, that's a given. but this doesn't mean that the top end shouldn't be more complex and nuanced. and sticking to some perceived notion of what the definitive tactics should be is contrary to progression. i'm not saying that we don't have great games, but it's like hurling when you know who's going to win, it ultimately doesn't get your juices flowing. so clever tactics even things up and close the gap between sides. what would be dull becomes something else altogether. more tactically competitive games are what's called for, not the same as before.
and just on the fitness. donegal are noticeably fitter and much better to watch nowadays as a consequence of the tactics than before. we have purpose and are organised, put it up to teams and play our football when we've earned our opportunities rather than leaving having opportunities in the lap of the gods of football. there's that added dimension of leaving every last ounce on the field, which doesn't happen if you're well beaten and have given up the ghost. mcguinness's tactics fail without supreme fitness and effort, and seeing this is absorbing.
Ok, first off, as a neutral, Donegal were worse than I've ever seen to watch this year, they are a big, football focused county that have produced some fantastic players over the years and ironically this team contains some players who are as good as any out there, but this year, especially in the dublin game, they were atrocious to watch.
The bolded bits, are nonsensical.
There was nothing "complex or nuanced" about Donegal's tactics, in fact they ultimately cost Donegal the game. Havign 13 men in your own half of the field and one of the best full forwards in the country in your own half back line is not complex, it is just ultra negative, Its nothing new either, many teams have tried it and no team has ever won an All ireland with it.
You say "clever tactics" even the gap between teams? If Donegal had played football like they were doing for most of the league, they would have beaten Dublin in my opinion...they had Murphy at the edge of the square, McFadden feeding off him and they KICKED the ball a lot more...therefore, you can say that the tactic of Murphy not even entering the attacking half of the field more than 5 times looks pretty stupid in hindsight doesn't it?
Finally "what would be dull becomes something else altogether".??? You think the Dublin v Donegal game wasn't dull....what games have you seen that were dull in the semi final/final in recent years tell me? Because since the Mayo v Fermanagh game in 2004 I haven't seen a game nearly as bad as Dublin v Donegal.
have to disagree with you there. donegal lost it because we had nothing left in the tank and because we didn't press home when we had the advantage. it wasn't the tactics that were flawed or stupid. we had to sit back more as we became more tired. up until around the 60mins mark the players were able to go soak up any dublin attack and counter themselves. it only requires ten more minutes worth of pep in the tank is all. what we needed was to bring some steel into our game and we have it in spades now. although i was sad seeing our lads reduced to flesh and bone that wouldn't co-operate with them, the game plan was there to compete like that for the full 70. we also made some poor individual decisions when we had opportunities going forward, but that is all part of learning how to win at this level i think and we'll be better next time round.
the things you see as non-sensical are aspects of the game and sport in general that i love. it's personal taste. i like sport that has a tactical aspect to it that places doubt on the outcome purely because it's about out thinking the opponent by stopping them and imposing yourself. i also absolutely love sports that place huge physical demands on it's participants. let's see what they're made of when they're pushed to breaking point. that's when you find out a team's togetherness and resilience. and while of course donegal's tactics are influenced by others, mcguinness has taken it a step further. it mightn't be pretty and you mightn't like it, but this type of approach to football and sport in general is as valid nonetheless. tactical cleverness, will to win and effort is a potent combo in sport. what's not to like! those anti this type of football say it's nothing new and the tactics aren't innovative, but sure we all know it's something we haven't seen before. we've seen versions of it, but not exactly this before. if it was common practice there wouldn't be boys like you and me on internet forums arguing the toss about who's right and wrong.
Well put, cadence. For many people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.
If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.
But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Well put, cadence. For may people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.
If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.
But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.
Watching surgery can give you all that.
Some people find this hard to understand but Wimbledon in soccer, England in Rugby, the unexciting grinders in various sports such as tennis, golf etc, are all going to be less popular with most fans than say Barcelona, an attacking French rugby team, or a Woods, Mickleson or McEnroe.
Why are people insisting we all have to like a team that refuse to play?
If Donegal do persist with what they produced against Dublin and if they find that "10 minutes" of conditioning to shut teams out for an entire game an dwin next years All Ireland final on a scor 06-05.
The next step is very easy to predict. The rules will be changed.
Not because of fluffy spectators who should be watching the circus, but because the (mostly) men who are in charge of the GAA's future wont allow the game to develop along those lines.
I am old enough to remember Dublin-Kerry in the 70's Throw passes - throw scores - basketball - rule change.
Quote from: muppet link=topic=20176.msg1013506#msg1013506
Watching surgery can give you all that.
Perhaps, but for me it would lack that element of competition.
Quote
Some people find this hard to understand but Wimbledon in soccer, England in Rugby, the unexciting grinders in various sports such as tennis, golf etc, are all going to be less popular with most fans than say Barcelona, an attacking French rugby team, or a Woods, Mickleson or McEnroe.
I don't find it hard to understand at all. In fact that's pretty much my point. Spectacle is popular. Hence monster trucks and circuses. But, for me, it has little to do with the essence of sport, which, to put it at its simplest, is figuring out how to win, if you're a participant or watching competitors figure out how to win, if you're a spectator.
Quote
Why are people insisting we all have to like a team that refuse to play?
Again, not my point at all. Liking doesn't come into it. Wanting other people to like a team is a concept I can't come close to grasping. In fact, in general, the term "like" occurs in my attitude to sport when I tend to dislike teams people like. For one thing, they're seldom winners. People hate winners, as soon as they become winners. If you think Donegal are unpopular now ...
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 10:11:54 AM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 01:29:59 AM
There was nothing "complex or nuanced" about Donegal's tactics, in fact they ultimately cost Donegal the game. Havign 13 men in your own half of the field and one of the best full forwards in the country in your own half back line is not complex, it is just ultra negative, Its nothing new either, many teams have tried it and no team has ever won an All ireland with it.
have to say , while not as defensively pronounced as Donegal, I'd have to mention that Kerry and Tyrone spring to mind ...plus if Dublin win this season, this will be a third county- that plays a very defensive strategy- to win the AI....
I'm sorry, but no..even at their most frenzied level of desperation to win an AI in 2003, Tyrone were not as bad as Donegal the last day IMO...And thats from a Kerry man who was disgusted coming out of croker when they beat us.
Kerry? The 2nd half of the '09 final is the only period I've ever seen Kerry go defensive, but there were always 3 attackers left up at least in that case also...and there was plenty constructive attacking play by them in that half also,therefore - no correlation whatsoever with Donegal.
Dublin will not win by being overly defensive either and I'm sure Gilroy will realise this...If they are to win, they need Connolly and the 2 Brogans firing on all cylinders within 40 yards of goal, NOT around the half back line!
sorry chief, but while Donegal are more blatantly obviously defensive, kerry, dublin, tyrone, armagh, kildare, monaghan aetc over the past number of seasons have been defensive and some VERY defensive.
Ye , their play may look better than Donegals, but dont tell me that all the above teams play the set positions and dont drop men (half forwards, corner forwards etc) back into their own half at times or all of the time during games.
That, my Kerry compadre, IS defensive football!
or football with an emphasis on defence!
Hardy I want to hear more about the lads with the jumping bikes.
Lads with jumping bikes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoLWgUnToWg)
Savage stuff.
It looks like more of a North Meath thing though.
Quote from: fearglasmor on September 06, 2011, 12:30:57 PM
If Donegal do persist with what they produced against Dublin and if they find that "10 minutes" of conditioning to shut teams out for an entire game an dwin next years All Ireland final on a scor 06-05.
The next step is very easy to predict. The rules will be changed.
Not because of fluffy spectators who should be watching the circus, but because the (mostly) men who are in charge of the GAA's future wont allow the game to develop along those lines.
I am old enough to remember Dublin-Kerry in the 70's Throw passes - throw scores - basketball - rule change.
I agree 100%. I've posted more or less exactly that recently. That's how it should be, provided the men in charge are making the right changes for the right reasons.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 06, 2011, 01:00:31 PM
Savage stuff.
It looks like more of a North Meath thing though.
Definitely Nobberish.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
Dublin will not win by being overly defensive either and I'm sure Gilroy will realise this...If they are to win, they need Connolly and the 2 Brogans firing on all cylinders within 40 yards of goal, NOT around the half back line!
btw Dublin when Tyrone were attacking had two forwards in the Donegal half of the pitch.
Thats one more than Donegal , but how does this mean that they are not defensive when Donegal are?
I'm taking the mick a bit I admit, but most football teams are defensive, but generally when they cross halfway, they dont pass the ball backwards again like Donegal did.
Its not really defensive football that people have an issue with (as they'd mostly be hypocrites otherwise) its the horrible style and refusal to commit players forward that looked bad.
imo
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: fearglasmor on September 06, 2011, 12:30:57 PM
If Donegal do persist with what they produced against Dublin and if they find that "10 minutes" of conditioning to shut teams out for an entire game an dwin next years All Ireland final on a scor 06-05.
The next step is very easy to predict. The rules will be changed.
Not because of fluffy spectators who should be watching the circus, but because the (mostly) men who are in charge of the GAA's future wont allow the game to develop along those lines.
I am old enough to remember Dublin-Kerry in the 70's Throw passes - throw scores - basketball - rule change.
I agree 100%. I've posted more or less exactly that recently. That's how it should be, provided the men in charge are making the right changes for the right reasons.
What would these changes and reasons be?
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
bring in the one solo, one hop rule - then have half time flogging for convicted divers ! ;) :D
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In short make the ball smaller and give them sticks?
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
the hand pass itself isnt the problem though. its avalid way of a team retaining possession.
i would rather watch a slick attacking move involving handpasses , than a team just lumping it up front and letting the forward fight for it.
there already is a game to watch that,- hurling.
I agree with your other two points although both are difficult to do.
Quote from: muppet on September 06, 2011, 02:01:42 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In short make the ball smaller and give them sticks?
What?
Edit. Sorry - getcha.
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?
Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 02:37:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?
Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".
I think that is because of an obsession with systems rather than skills.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?
What, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Liojofdj514/TQKa8_I3YzI/AAAAAAAAA-c/v_earo26c-4/s1600/klan.jpg)
It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics. The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked :P
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:45:53 PMWhat, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game?
It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics. The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked :P
not really. IMO players need to have a high level of skills before they can contemplete systems and strategies etc.
There are a lot of players who are athletes and who dont have the skills and have managed to play intercounty, but these guys are easy to spot. they make great half backs and spoilers, but cannot create or certainly rarely kick points or give accurate long range foot passes. Short ball handpassing is all they cn do (I believe Donegal's team are more skilled footballers than this btw).
people like to pull such ideas out of mid air - but the game never and still doesnt reseble rugby league. I have seen on here where some have mooted a certain amount of handpasses allowed. Sure didnt we have that NFL rule where you couldnt handpas twice in a row- a bit daft, but maybe more ideas need to be looked at. But if we leave managers to come up with a plan to counteract the Donegal tactic, I am sure they will in time. Thats how football keeps evolving !
? for BrokenCrossbar1--what level of championship do you hope to win soon , now that your team has improved?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:45:53 PMWhat, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game?
It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics. The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked :P
not really. IMO players need to have a high level of skills before they can contemplete systems and strategies etc.
There are a lot of players who are athletes and who dont have the skills and have managed to play intercounty, but these guys are easy to spot. they make great half backs and spoilers, but cannot create or certainly rarely kick points or give accurate long range foot passes. Short ball handpassing is all they cn do (I believe Donegal's team are more skilled footballers than this btw).
people like to pull such ideas out of mid air - but the game never and still doesnt reseble rugby league. I have seen on here where some have mooted a certain amount of handpasses allowed. Sure didnt we have that NFL rule where you couldnt handpas twice in a row- a bit daft, but maybe more ideas need to be looked at. But if we leave managers to come up with a plan to counteract the Donegal tactic, I am sure they will in time. Thats how football keeps evolving !
I think we are in agreement Lynchie, i am teasing ye!! I do fear though that sometimes the tactics that are employed are rugby league-esque. 3 men surrounding the ball carrier with only 1 tackling, 7-8 men falling back behind the ball to create a Maginot type line across the 45, short running play giving the ball off the shoulder to the man on the burst. It is fairly like rugby league in my view. With the greater emphasis on upper body conditioning that seems to be encouraged, there is a genuine concern that this will become the way forward dor other teams. I hope that Kerry win on Sunday week, yest they are negative and cynical but they are by far the most positive "big" team playing the game. They have been able to marry both sides of the game better than the rest.
Quote from: samwin08 on September 06, 2011, 03:37:25 PM
? for BrokenCrossbar1--what level of championship do you hope to win soon , now that your team has improved?
The level that they are playing at, Intermediate.
Quote from: muppet on September 06, 2011, 01:40:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:01:12 PM
Quote from: fearglasmor on September 06, 2011, 12:30:57 PM
If Donegal do persist with what they produced against Dublin and if they find that "10 minutes" of conditioning to shut teams out for an entire game an dwin next years All Ireland final on a scor 06-05.
The next step is very easy to predict. The rules will be changed.
Not because of fluffy spectators who should be watching the circus, but because the (mostly) men who are in charge of the GAA's future wont allow the game to develop along those lines.
I am old enough to remember Dublin-Kerry in the 70's Throw passes - throw scores - basketball - rule change.
I agree 100%. I've posted more or less exactly that recently. That's how it should be, provided the men in charge are making the right changes for the right reasons.
What would these changes and reasons be?
Make the ball smaller
give the players sticks
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 02:37:38 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 06, 2011, 02:35:15 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 06, 2011, 02:29:35 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 01:53:34 PM
Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.
In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass. It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective. This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.
the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?
Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".
Have always thought the same. Top tennis players etc all practice their craft endlessly also.
They're all individual sports.
You succeed or fail on your own.
Plus darts, snooker and golf have no physical component worth mentioning and are predominantly games of skill.
And most are pro sports too. However the core point is a valid one. Skills should be coached, and practised. I do think that is recognised and is happening with kids though. It's when they get to 18-20 that people start to neglect skills I think. Not too many lads down with their brother practising kicking scores/frees etc any more.
Anyone suggesting that there is a tactic that can beat Donegal's type of defence is living in a fantasy world. There is none, you can win the game but it will be through frees, a lucky goal or because you concede less than 5 points. I dont understand anyone talking about defensive football as played by everyone else, of course you get bodies back but you don't leave 12 or 13 of them back there. Defending with 6 - 9 players is a skill and requires all that is good about football, defending with 14 is just pass the parcel defending. If Donegal's style became prevalent the BC1 may as well forget about coaching as kick passing would become a waste of time, as would high fielding, and marking.
Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Well put, cadence. For many people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.
If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.
But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.
i with you.... love the aspects of the game you talk about + the bare-faced tenacity and cheek of it to try and beat those who on paper you've no right (as some would see it) to be even lining up against. i just think that's really admirable.
+ i'd like to add that i don't want the skill aspect of football taken away. but i'd hate to see football just to be aesthetically pleasing on the eye. it would become like those meals in fancy restaurants with the finicking little swirls on the plate, lovely to look at, and even nice to consume, but you're left starving, unfulfilled and disappointed by the whole affair. football is so much more than the high field, the pick up, etc, much and all as these are great aspects of the game. i wish we hadda learned our lessons sooner!
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
I'm sorry, but no..even at their most frenzied level of desperation to win an AI in 2003, Tyrone were not as bad as Donegal the last day IMO...And thats from a Kerry man who was disgusted coming out of croker when they beat us.
Thank you Donegal, you've rendered (some) Ciarraí folk nostalgic for the Tyrone team of 2003! Jim Mc Guinness truly has Messianic powers, all hail! ;)
I remember how everyone was pissed off when Inter Milan beat Barcelona and went on to win the Champions League.
They came up with a plan and beat the best team in the world.
There's a lot to admire in that.
At the same time, you wouldn't want to watch it every weekend.
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.
Rubbish. You can not rely on scoring only from 50 mtrs out to win a game. The idea that donegal would allow free shooting from 50 mtrs is also rubbish. At best you will be under pressure and miss every 2nd shot allowing the made defence to counter. The only way to beat it is to play just as ugly and that is not good for the game
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 06, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.
Rubbish. You can not rely on scoring only from 50 mtrs out to win a game. The idea that donegal would allow free shooting from 50 mtrs is also rubbish. At best you will be under pressure and miss every 2nd shot allowing the made defence to counter. The only way to beat it is to play just as ugly and that is not good for the game
Well if the opposing team set up their stall a la Donegal and thus will only be good for 4 or 5 points tops from play themselves then its not too ambitious a target. The range of most Dublin forwards the last day was about 35 metres. Bring that up to 50 metres and suddenly the space that needs to be covered by Donegal increases by ~95% :o (for anyone doing the maths, i would have put it at 100% but for the pitch is 'only' 88m wide)
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on September 06, 2011, 07:24:42 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on September 06, 2011, 10:46:31 AM
I'm sorry, but no..even at their most frenzied level of desperation to win an AI in 2003, Tyrone were not as bad as Donegal the last day IMO...And thats from a Kerry man who was disgusted coming out of croker when they beat us.
Thank you Donegal, you've rendered (some) Ciarraí folk nostalgic for the Tyrone team of 2003! Jim Mc Guinness truly has Messianic powers, all hail! ;)
i actually did laugh out loud there. fair does, that was funny.
mcguinness in the herald. he's some cheek being annoyed that mcguinness. he should just stfu and take what's coming to him....
http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/mcguinness-annoyed-by-backlash-against-donegal-2867456.html
f**king ruining the game!!!!
Quote from: blast05 on September 06, 2011, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 06, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.
Rubbish. You can not rely on scoring only from 50 mtrs out to win a game. The idea that donegal would allow free shooting from 50 mtrs is also rubbish. At best you will be under pressure and miss every 2nd shot allowing the made defence to counter. The only way to beat it is to play just as ugly and that is not good for the game
Well if the opposing team set up their stall a la Donegal and thus will only be good for 4 or 5 points tops from play themselves then its not too ambitious a target. The range of most Dublin forwards the last day was about 35 metres. Bring that up to 50 metres and suddenly the space that needs to be covered by Donegal increases by ~95% :o (for anyone doing the maths, i would have put it at 100% but for the pitch is 'only' 88m wide)
Not sure about that. To increase the ground to be covered by that much Dublin would need to have been shooting from almost twice as far out, i.e between the 65 and halfway lines. Bringing it out to 50 meters only increases it by ~40%. Take into account the increase in distance from a bigger angle and it reduces the 40% further. And sure Donegal had a spare man up the field for that ;)
Oh great, another maths thread!
the square of the hypotenuse equals that this thread rocks.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on September 06, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 05:59:48 PM
Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.
Rubbish. You can not rely on scoring only from 50 mtrs out to win a game. The idea that donegal would allow free shooting from 50 mtrs is also rubbish. At best you will be under pressure and miss every 2nd shot allowing the made defence to counter. The only way to beat it is to play just as ugly and that is not good for the game
Not if you can't score from 50 metres, you can't. That was kinda my point. Except it wasn't 50 metres. Dublin were missing shots from inside the 45. Not every 2nd shot, which wouldn't be unusual. It was 100% of them until the last ten minutes. That's ugly. Not good for the game either. And who suggested that any team should allow free shooting?
Quote from: cadence on September 06, 2011, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Well put, cadence. For many people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.
If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.
But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.
i with you.... love the aspects of the game you talk about + the bare-faced tenacity and cheek of it to try and beat those who on paper you've no right (as some would see it) to be even lining up against. i just think that's really admirable.
+ i'd like to add that i don't want the skill aspect of football taken away. but i'd hate to see football just to be aesthetically pleasing on the eye. it would become like those meals in fancy restaurants with the finicking little swirls on the plate, lovely to look at, and even nice to consume, but you're left starving, unfulfilled and disappointed by the whole affair. football is so much more than the high field, the pick up, etc, much and all as these are great aspects of the game. i wish we hadda learned our lessons sooner!
Congrats. Of all the pathetic feeble justifications of "Visionary Jim"'s pig ugly tactics your post beats the lot.
This is where we will be in a couple of years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TzIlW9p3a8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TzIlW9p3a8)
Quote from: muppet on September 07, 2011, 02:24:10 AM
This is where we will be in a couple of years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TzIlW9p3a8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TzIlW9p3a8)
Some of those boys had ample opportunity to kick it over the bar. Disgusting lack of knackers.
Ireland set up shop around the goals and they are heros.
Donegal do it and the get lambasted from every corner.
Andoireabu ..... you need to go back to maths class - area of half a circle with radius of 50m versus area of half a circle with radius of 35m.... 'pie times radius squared / 2' and all that
Quote from: blast05 on September 07, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
Ireland set up shop around the goals and they are heros.
Donegal do it and the get lambasted from every corner.
bulldung..Ireland played a 4-4-2 formation (as usual under Trapp). Donegal played a 13-0-1 formation
Letter in IT
• Sir, – Keith Duggan speaks for all Donegal GAA fans in his reasoned and balanced piece ("No class in RTÉ Establishment's crass attack", Sports Weekend, September 3rd). I was lucky enough to be in Croke Park, along with more than a quarter of the county's population, to watch Donegal play Dublin. Those who watched at home, "up there" in Donegal, would most likely have tuned into the BBC coverage, far superior in terms of balanced commentary, and reflecting the passion felt by ordinary county supporters.
Donegal played with heart and commitment, and while it was not a classic game, the team made us feel proud. Donegal teams and fans have felt the chill wind of contempt and disrespect from Montrose commentators long before this season. Keith Duggan spoke for a whole county. – Yours, etc,
BRID McGINLEY,
Moville,
Inishowen,
Co Donegal
'Donegal teams and fans have felt the chill wind of contempt and disrespect from Montrose commentators long before this season.'
Nicely done Bríd.
'reasoned and balanced piece' ?
It was nothing but a rant!
By Donegal standards it was reasoned and balance. :P
Quote from: sheamy on September 07, 2011, 12:55:27 PM
'reasoned and balanced piece' ?
It was nothing but a rant!
I enjoyed it!
The title also makes it sound like the whole of RTE had a go at Donegal. Katherine Thomas and Pat Kenny and the whole pile of them. It was 2-3 clowns who are best ignored in good times and bad. People in Donegal should pay no heed.
If most people are honest, they watched that game and went 'that was Shi-ite' (as Pat would say). Upon further reflection you realise you watched every second of it intently. I was in this position. I was disgusted at what had (hand) passed for football. Then I realised it was one of the few matches I had watched intently from start to finish all year. I had long left Kerry v Mayo when I saw the nature of the resistance. Brings an interesting question to mind about what counts as entertainment.
I still it's terrible for the game to be headed this way, and I probably would have been as big a tool as Brolly and co had someone interviewed me 2 mins after the game. However, thinking about it again, it deserves more credit. Certainly from anyone basing their argument on an 'entertainment' factor.
Quote from: blast05 on September 07, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
Ireland set up shop around the goals and they are heros.
Donegal do it and the get lambasted from every corner.
Andoireabu ..... you need to go back to maths class - area of half a circle with radius of 50m versus area of half a circle with radius of 35m.... 'pie times radius squared / 2' and all that
My counting is grand thanks. I took it you meant 35*88 and 50*88 as you mentioned the width of the pitch, for this my sums stand. As you meant a radius of 35 and 50 then the width of the pitch doesnt matter a sh1te and the new area to cover is more than 100% so your ~95% is still wrong.
(Pi(35^2))/2=1924.23
(Pi(50^2))/2=3926.99
Increase in area is 2002.76 so as a percentage of the original is 104%
Looks like it isn't me who needs the maths class after all.
Quote from: ross matt on September 06, 2011, 11:31:31 PM
Quote from: cadence on September 06, 2011, 06:30:02 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 06, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
Well put, cadence. For many people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.
If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.
But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.
i with you.... love the aspects of the game you talk about + the bare-faced tenacity and cheek of it to try and beat those who on paper you've no right (as some would see it) to be even lining up against. i just think that's really admirable.
+ i'd like to add that i don't want the skill aspect of football taken away. but i'd hate to see football just to be aesthetically pleasing on the eye. it would become like those meals in fancy restaurants with the finicking little swirls on the plate, lovely to look at, and even nice to consume, but you're left starving, unfulfilled and disappointed by the whole affair. football is so much more than the high field, the pick up, etc, much and all as these are great aspects of the game. i wish we hadda learned our lessons sooner!
Congrats. Of all the pathetic feeble justifications of "Visionary Jim"'s pig ugly tactics your post beats the lot.
well, i'm not sure that it does, but thanks all the same. i think it's a pity that you've closed your heart to this side of the game. i think if you were more open that it could be a very enriching and rewarding experience for you. instead of going on a downer about it, you could be enraptured. it opens up a whole new world. and i read somewhere, can't remember where, that it's better for your health that way too. i thought it was good advice anyway when i read it.
Quote from: andoireabu on September 07, 2011, 07:06:16 PM
Quote from: blast05 on September 07, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
Ireland set up shop around the goals and they are heros.
Donegal do it and the get lambasted from every corner.
Andoireabu ..... you need to go back to maths class - area of half a circle with radius of 50m versus area of half a circle with radius of 35m.... 'pie times radius squared / 2' and all that
My counting is grand thanks. I took it you meant 35*88 and 50*88 as you mentioned the width of the pitch, for this my sums stand. As you meant a radius of 35 and 50 then the width of the pitch doesnt matter a sh1te and the new area to cover is more than 100% so your ~95% is still wrong.
(Pi(35^2))/2=1924.23
(Pi(50^2))/2=3926.99
Increase in area is 2002.76 so as a percentage of the original is 104%
Looks like it isn't me who needs the maths class after all.
andoireabu stop digging - you're showing St Pat's Maghera up ;D
No amount of indignant puff will fit a semi-circle of diameter 100m onto a pitch which is only 88m wide...
Blast05 was only slightly off in his figures but his method was sound. You, on the other hand, still don't seem to have fully grasped the concept even after being slapped about the head ::)
The area of a semi-circle of radius 50m has indeed an increase of 104% on one of radius 35m. Blast05 said 100%.
But the area of a semi-circle of radius 50m on a 88m wide pitch has a "half segment" cut off from each side (extending 23.75m out linearly from the goalline). The total area lost in this case is 192.44m^2 so the remaining area is 3734.56m^2 which is a 94% increase on the 35m semi-circle area of 1924.23m^2. Blast05 said 95% :P
Think cutting a piece of pie...
...humble pie ;D
The original point was well made blast05 - increasing the shooting range from 35m to 50m almost doubles the defensive area within that range and as a result would almost half the number of Donegal men to the square metre*
*I propose this as a new defensive unit of measurement as the Tyrone one is getting old and out of date.
Jesus lads, would you leave the maths offa here. Noone beats John Brennan at this game:
"If ten players get over 50 per cent on the opposition ten players, then...You're never going to get 15 players playing at 100 per cent. If I could get 20 players at 80 per cent, if I can get 1600 per cent, we'll beat anybody. I'm not a mathematician, but I like working things out. That has been my belief and it has worked down the years with me. You'll never get 15 100 per cents, but if you can get 20 at 80 per cent, you'll beat anybody."
Before 2002 we had no need for numbers or percentages in gaelic football.
Something else we can thank our northern friends for.
Quote from: Jinxy on September 08, 2011, 03:15:24 PM
Before 2002 we had no need for numbers or percentages in gaelic football.
Something else we can thank our northern friends for.
Jinxy, has Mike Sheehy stolen your password?
Aye, ye free staters could do with learning a bit about numbers.
eg -1000000000000000 EUR is bad on a bank account.
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on September 08, 2011, 02:52:45 PM
Quote from: andoireabu on September 07, 2011, 07:06:16 PM
Quote from: blast05 on September 07, 2011, 09:27:34 AM
Ireland set up shop around the goals and they are heros.
Donegal do it and the get lambasted from every corner.
Andoireabu ..... you need to go back to maths class - area of half a circle with radius of 50m versus area of half a circle with radius of 35m.... 'pie times radius squared / 2' and all that
My counting is grand thanks. I took it you meant 35*88 and 50*88 as you mentioned the width of the pitch, for this my sums stand. As you meant a radius of 35 and 50 then the width of the pitch doesnt matter a sh1te and the new area to cover is more than 100% so your ~95% is still wrong.
(Pi(35^2))/2=1924.23
(Pi(50^2))/2=3926.99
Increase in area is 2002.76 so as a percentage of the original is 104%
Looks like it isn't me who needs the maths class after all.
andoireabu stop digging - you're showing St Pat's Maghera up ;D
No amount of indignant puff will fit a semi-circle of diameter 100m onto a pitch which is only 88m wide...
Blast05 was only slightly off in his figures but his method was sound. You, on the other hand, still don't seem to have fully grasped the concept even after being slapped about the head ::)
The area of a semi-circle of radius 50m has indeed an increase of 104% on one of radius 35m. Blast05 said 100%.
But the area of a semi-circle of radius 50m on a 88m wide pitch has a "half segment" cut off from each side (extending 23.75m out linearly from the goalline). The total area lost in this case is 192.44m^2 so the remaining area is 3734.56m^2 which is a 94% increase on the 35m semi-circle area of 1924.23m^2. Blast05 said 95% :P
Think cutting a piece of pie...
...humble pie ;D
The original point was well made blast05 - increasing the shooting range from 35m to 50m almost doubles the defensive area within that range and as a result would almost half the number of Donegal men to the square metre*
*I propose this as a new defensive unit of measurement as the Tyrone one is getting old and out of date.
Fair enough i'll put the spade down. See my mistake now.
as it was a wet day, scores from distance were not easy to get.
Would like to see how these teams get on with the Donegal Iron Curtain defense when its a dry day and they have an opportunity to kick for a point from anywhere from 40 yards out...
I'd expect these teams would land a few more than 6 or 7 points - meaning donegal would have to come out to attack like they did v Kildare.
they can play when they have to. They were just not made play last day out !
If they had they could have won. A view held by many, inc a former Dublin AI winning manager!
Quote from: sheamy on September 08, 2011, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 08, 2011, 03:15:24 PM
Before 2002 we had no need for numbers or percentages in gaelic football.
Something else we can thank our northern friends for.
Jinxy, has Mike Sheehy stolen your password?
Aye, ye free staters could do with learning a bit about numbers.
eg -1000000000000000 EUR is bad on a bank account.
Given its origins I am now rechristening "puke football" to be "nordieball" (or "britball" when I really want to wind ye up). I may also refer to the Dublin variant as "west-britball"
Notice has been served
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 08, 2011, 08:11:16 PM
Given its origins I am now rechristening "puke football" to be "nordieball" (or "britball" when I really want to wind ye up). I may also refer to the Dublin variant as "west-britball"
Notice has been served
You're getting off lightly this evening Sheehy (so far), and I just love your unhinged wind-ups! :D
I heard McFadden drove the team bus home from Dublin the day of the match and the rest of the team all sat at the back.........
Irish News Ulster 'All Stars' last night. All the Donegal men stood at the back of the room. An 'All-Star' team photo was made impossible as they'd only come up to the stage one at a time.
Quote from: highorlow on September 09, 2011, 08:52:50 AM
I heard McFadden drove the team bus home from Dublin the day of the match and the rest of the team all sat at the back.........
:D :D :D :D
Quote from: sheamy on September 09, 2011, 09:37:00 AM
Irish News Ulster 'All Stars' last night. All the Donegal men stood at the back of the room. An 'All-Star' team photo was made impossible as they'd only come up to the stage one at a time.
Keep the day Job
Where did Anthony Tohill disappear too??
As usual Tony Davis can't stop Spillane making his point
(http://www.terracetalk.com/photos/cache/classic-kerry-gaa-photos/1970-to-1990/43-1989patspillane_570.jpg)
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on September 08, 2011, 08:11:16 PM
Quote from: sheamy on September 08, 2011, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on September 08, 2011, 03:15:24 PM
Before 2002 we had no need for numbers or percentages in gaelic football.
Something else we can thank our northern friends for.
Jinxy, has Mike Sheehy stolen your password?
Aye, ye free staters could do with learning a bit about numbers.
eg -1000000000000000 EUR is bad on a bank account.
Given its origins I am now rechristening "puke football" to be "nordieball" (or "britball" when I really want to wind ye up). I may also refer to the Dublin variant as "west-britball"
Notice has been served
I like to call it Kerry-golden-years ball or 'goldenballs' for short.