gaaboard.com

I posted in a thread on the non GAA side about the Newstalk programme on Saturday afternoon there. I was listening to it when I was inside in the Gaelic Grounds before the match, and Tommy Carr and Val Andrews had a right cut at internet forums. I was quite disappointed listening to it, because I didn't recognise myself in the type of person they were describing.

I know anonymity irks people, and I know at times internet forums go above and beyond what's acceptable in terms of personal criticism, but in general I think those incidents are reported and dealt with.

I don't think much is said here that is not uttered in pubs and grounds around the country, the difference being that what you type is there for everyone to see, unless you delete it.

However, a thought struck me as I listened. Who do Val and Tommy think use these boards? What do they think is the demographic of board users? I got the impression that they feel that the people on these boards know nothing about the GAA, and contribute very little. That's what made me disappointed. Not so much to be called names, indirectly, but that good GAA people like Val and Tommy would think that.

Malachy Clerkin was on it as well, and tried to give some balance, but I think he was intimidated to be honest, as Tommy and Val went on and on.

So, I've added a poll here to try and get a sense of the people who use the board. Please be honest in your answers, and you can choose as many as are appropriate.

Good stuff. Keep the votes coming, and please be honest. Did anyone hear the discussion I'm referring to?

Didn't hear it, is there a link to it?

I'm sure it'll be on http:\\www.newstalk.com (//http://http:%5C%5Cwww.newstalk.com) They have a section Shows, where you can select Sports Saturday, and then there's a 'Listen Back' tab. It was early enough on the show on Sat. Probably 2 o'clock ish.

I'd have time for Val Andrews. Think he's a good GAA man. Doubt he's all that into new technology so fair enough. Not everyone can keep up, and a lot of stuff is hype and blather anyway.

Tommy "Tom" Carr, on the other hand, is a mystery to me. Who takes that man seriously, and why? I reckon the wife has to butter his toast in the mornings. I'd say he'd slice off a finger through lack of dexterity if he were let at it himself. And not only that, Tommy Tom is so incredibly smug he makes Kevin McStay sound like the Dalai Lama. At least you could imagine having a pint with Val. It'd be the pint of strychnine if you were stuck at the bar with Tommy Tom.

To be honest AZ, I have no time for Val Andrews or Tommy Carr, very poor analysts and their respective coaching records speak volumes about their knowledge of the modern game. They must be cheap because I can see no reason why Newstalk would employ them.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 11, 2011, 12:36:51 PM
To be honest AZ, I have no time for Val Andrews or Tommy Carr, very poor analysts and their respective coaching records speak volumes about their knowledge of the modern game. They must be cheap because I can see no reason why Newstalk would employ them.

+1

Particularly Tommy Carr.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 11, 2011, 12:38:11 PM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 11, 2011, 12:36:51 PM
To be honest AZ, I have no time for Val Andrews or Tommy Carr, very poor analysts and their respective coaching records speak volumes about their knowledge of the modern game. They must be cheap because I can see no reason why Newstalk would employ them.

+1

Particularly Tommy Carr.

+2, wouldn't make any distinction between the pair though, neither of them give any insight worth talking about and like Dinny said, their records speak for themselves.

Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 11, 2011, 12:36:51 PM
To be honest AZ, I have no time for Val Andrews or Tommy Carr, very poor analysts and their respective coaching records speak volumes about their knowledge of the modern game. They must be cheap because I can see no reason why Newstalk would employ them.

I don't think that Val Andrews' coaching record (or indeed that of Tommy Carr) invalidates his point of view?

I didn't hear the interview myself, so can't really comment.

I do know a friend and club mate of Val Andrews though and he has nothing but praise for the trojan work he has done for Ballymun and the decent fella that he is. I think that needs stated if people here are going to take pot shots at him.

QuoteI don't think that Val Andrews' coaching record (or indeed that of Tommy Carr) invalidates his point of view?

As an analyst which is what I stated it absolutely does, as an inter-county coach in the modern game he has been a failure, simple as that and to be honest I switch off the radio anytime he comes on because as a PAID analyst he hasn't a clue. 

Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 11, 2011, 12:52:32 PM

QuoteI don't think that Val Andrews' coaching record (or indeed that of Tommy Carr) invalidates his point of view?

As an analyst which is what I stated it absolutely does, as an inter-county coach in the modern game he has been a failure, simple as that and to be honest I switch off the radio anytime he comes on because as a PAID analyst he hasn't a clue.

We're talking here about their viewpoint on internet discussion forums. I cannot believe that anyone seriously thinks that a poor inter county coaching record invaildates their point of view on that subject? Mind boggling stuff!!   

Like all of us here they are entitled to their opinion. What they are not entitled to is to try to shut up people or present a demeaning stereotype to denigrade the opinions of users of internet discussion forums.

I've heard a lot of good stuff about Val Andrews that happens away from the glare of the national media so even though his intercounty managment record leaves a lot to be desired I'd have a bit of time for him. Sometimes good managers can fail at intercounty level. Never really warmed to Tommy Carr. I'm sure he has little time for me either!

Quote from: magpie seanie on July 11, 2011, 12:59:50 PM
Like all of us here they are entitled to their opinion. What they are not entitled to is to try to shut up people or present a demeaning stereotype to denigrade the opinions of users of internet discussion forums.

Agreed, and if that is what they said, then I would take issue.

Lads, the point is not their quality, or lack thereof, in terms of coaching teams or even as analysts. What dismayed me is that both of them are solid GAA citizens, who've been around the country, and they seem to have a certain notion about who the people on these forums are.

I know the anonymity of the forums is a big bugbear, and I understand why, especially when some people take advantage of that anonymity to say something, especially personal, that they would never put their real name to.

However, to simply write of the entire internet community on that basis is wrong, and it's disappointing to hear two GAA people go down that route. It was also disappointing to hear Ger Gilroy failing to challenge them on it.

AZ you're missing two boxes.

Journalists and multiples of the above.

But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 11, 2011, 12:58:47 PM

Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 11, 2011, 12:52:32 PM

QuoteI don't think that Val Andrews' coaching record (or indeed that of Tommy Carr) invalidates his point of view?

As an analyst which is what I stated it absolutely does, as an inter-county coach in the modern game he has been a failure, simple as that and to be honest I switch off the radio anytime he comes on because as a PAID analyst he hasn't a clue.

We're talking here about their viewpoint on internet discussion forums. I cannot believe that anyone seriously thinks that a poor inter county coaching record invaildates their point of view on that subject? Mind boggling stuff!!

Where did I say that, I all stated was that I had no time for them as analysts. So I don't particularly care what they think of Internet forums but in their defence as coaches with poor records you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work to out that they would have been the victims of personal attacks on the internet. That is where forums that are not moderated can let themselves down and the wider GAA community on the net.

Quote from: Billys Boots on July 11, 2011, 01:12:02 PM
But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

Yes, it is. But we don't go on national radio and call all GAA players and managers ill informed muppets :) (Sorry muppet)

Quote from: passedit on July 11, 2011, 01:09:30 PM
AZ you're missing two boxes.

Journalists and multiples of the above.

Good point Passedit. I've added that, and I think ye can change your vote if you voted other and you're a journo. Don't be shy, it is Anonymous after all :)

Quote from: AZOffaly on July 11, 2011, 12:29:00 PM
Good stuff. Keep the votes coming, and please be honest. Did anyone hear the discussion I'm referring to?
[/quote

Yeah i listened to it and to be honest it was infuriating listening to such a unbalanced viewpoint.. Val was very irratating. The best analysis of a game is more often than not found on message boards

Everyone's is entitled to their opinions, I dont think being a county player makes your opinion any more (or less) valid than someone who contributes at any other level, having management experience adds a string to your bow alright, but plenty of brutal managers get paid to analyse.  The Sunday Game is a perfect example, it's clear as day that O'Rourke has been in management at a successful level, it's not so clear about any of the rest of them, Brolly loves to hear himself talk, he's a lot less incisive with his analysis than he thinks he is; Spillane is too worried about asthetics to give any semblance of decent analysis; much as I like Tony Davis he adds little; McStay I can have alright and can be on the money a fair percentage of the time.  Martin Carney's co-commentary/analysis is  embarassing.  Peter Canavan is head and shoulders above them all IMO.

They are correct to an extent that there are some wild opinions on here - there are, and some people clearly dont know their arse from their elbow, but Val & co may miss the odd piss-take thou.

I should note that they didn't (as far as I could hear) mention *this* board. Hogan Stand was mentioned, as was Boards.ie.

Quote from: AZOffaly on July 11, 2011, 01:16:27 PM

Quote from: Billys Boots on July 11, 2011, 01:12:02 PM
But AZ, is it not just (yet) another ill-informed opinion, similar to a fair percentage of what goes on around here?

Yes, it is. But we don't go on national radio and call all GAA players and managers ill informed muppets :) (Sorry muppet)

I'm an ex-ill informed muppet!

Voted honest as I could, I'm a club official (current). Had heart problems as a youngster so I couldn't play.

cheers AZ just curious to see if carr had a rant at the muppets over there.........................great topic btw dude

Good discussion on this. How good or what level someone played or managed at does not make their opinion any more important than anyone elses. It doesn't mean they are right but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

These forums only highlight what supporters are thinking. Some managers view them with suspicion as in their eyes it puts extra pressure on them but it is a results business and supporters will not be responsible for them losing their job. Val Andrews should be more worried about the pathetic showings against Donegal and Longford.

All sports are struggling with this instant voicing of opinions in the digital age. See the IFA are threatening fines for players who tweet inappropriatey, expect a similiar edit to follow from Croke Park.

I know some of you probably think I am mad, and you might be right, but I sent this email off to Ger Gilroy this morning. I was annoyed listening to that I must say.

***************************

Hi Ger,

I'm a fan of the sports programmes on Newstalk, particularly the OffTheBall roadshow and your own Weekend Sport shows. I always feel ye are fans doing a job for fans, however I was disappointed with the way the discussion with Val and Tommy went on Satuday. I was in the Gaelic Grounds, and listening along as I watched Offaly capitulate to Limerick (sigh) and I was dsappointed to hear the two lads have a real cut off internet discussion forums.

I understand the fact that anonymity allows people to say things they wouldn't otherwise say, but very little that is said on internet forums goes unsaid in bars and pitches throughout the country. As long as it is not personal, and relates to the playing, coaching or refereeing skills on display, then surely that is just standard opinion, which everyone is allowed to have. Anything that veers into the personal should be out of bounds, and in fairness is usually moderated when it is reported, on any forums I've seen.

I must say, that listening on Saturday, it seemed to me that Val and Tommy would rather that no-one gave their opinion on GAA unless they had access to the media in some form, which is obviously the preserve of a select few. It sounded as if they thought that those people using the forums contribute nothing to the GAA and should be silenced or ignored. That's the bit that disappointed me. I don't mind being insulted indirectly as a user of those forums, per se, but what I do mind is that staunch GAA men like Val and Tommy would have such little regard for the people that post on those forums. I was also disappointed that, as there was no right of reply, yourself or Malachy didn't explain a few things to the lads, and of the key things that I think the lads are missing is that a lot, if not most, of the people who post on the GAA forums are active members, players, coaches, supporters etc. I don't think they understand that concept, and I think that's a common misunderstanding amongst those who dislike the internet forums. I think they think of the users as 'keyboard warriors' who are probably all pale, waif like creatures that have never kicked or pucked a ball in their life.

As a little experiment, I polled gaaboard.com yesterday. A discussion forum with a lot of members, quite a few contributors, and a lot of 'lurkers'. I asked people to be honest and answer a question as regards their involvement with the GAA. Of course it's highly unscientific, and (as with most polls) it's impossible to really tell if people are being truthful, but I think the results are illuminating, and they are consistant with my experiences whenever you meet someone from the GAABoard (as in our charity golf event that raised money for the Cormac Trust and Pieta House).

I don't expect people to like being criticised, and I accept that anonymity is a bugbear, but I think GAA people would be better off understanding *who* these people are.

Poll Added 12.15 pm yesterday, Monday July 11th.

Results as of Tuesday July 12th @ 10.40 am.

Respondants could choose multiple answers if they were applicable.

Number of Respondants (N.o.R) : 122

N.o.R. with no current or prior involvement in the GAA, other than being a 'supporter'. : 11
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, club players : 94
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, inter county players : 20
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, coaches of adult teams (including inter county) : 22
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, coaches of kids teams (including Go Games etc) : 37
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, county board officials : 13
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, club officials : 35
N.o.R. who are ex, or current, fundraisers for their club : 28
N.o.R. who are journalists or media members : 4
N.o.R. who signalled 'Other' GAA involvement : 5

I think those numbers speak for themselves, and give lie to the theory that internet forums are the preserve of disenchanted, disaffected, disenfranchised malcontents.

Regards

The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

Quote from: thewobbler on July 12, 2011, 11:06:08 AM
The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

My vexation is not because they think our opinions are less important than theirs, that's a common thing. What vexes me is that they thing we should be shut up as if we don't deserve to have an opinion because we are all faceless cowards hiding behind screen names. My point is that anonyity is part of internet forums, but the people behind the handles are every bit as steeped in the GAA as Val or Tommy are.

Quote from: AZOffaly on July 12, 2011, 11:13:56 AM

Quote from: thewobbler on July 12, 2011, 11:06:08 AM
The closedmindedness of Andrews and co does annoy me.

The only roles above that don't apply to me are blow-in and county player. I wad a rubbish player but I sacrificed enough of my time and sat through enough team talks from enough managers to more than earn my opinion. 

I've also sat in the company of enough county players and managers to learn that some people are born with an innate understanding of Gaelic Football when they're on the field, that bears no relation to their ability to analyse the game, or to analyse players. The most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.


We don't help ourselves on here in that some of our members are particularly vexatious and unnecessarily personal. The John Clarke situation though rankled with me - there was hardly even a harsh word said about him on this board or others, but honest appraisals of some of his performances obviously went down the wrong way.

Perhaps if our journalists actually called a spade a spade every once in a while and stopped worrying about offending the players, their sensitivity threshold might rise. I'm not asking for open season on players - I couldn't think of anything worse - but be prepared to accept critiicism along with adulation.

My vexation is not because they think our opinions are less important than theirs, that's a common thing. What vexes me is that they thing we should be shut up as if we don't deserve to have an opinion because we are all faceless cowards hiding behind screen names. My point is that anonyity is part of internet forums, but the people behind the handles are every bit as steeped in the GAA as Val or Tommy are.

I find it ironic that they appear to be doing, with a very broad brush and from a privileged position, what they say we shouldn't be doing, i.e. criticising people.

By the way, diverging slightly, I have the Newstalk App. This beautifully solves the - I only hear the radio when I'm in the car - problem. Now I can listen to David Brady talk about the arse in Murphs's trousers when I'm cutting the grass, washing the child or pretending to do some other vital domestic activity. Magic!

Quote from: thewobbler on July 12, 2011, 11:06:08 AMThe most talented, most intelligent player I've ever seen in Down is, put simply, a dreadful manager.

There's no doubt that Paddy O'Rourke had an outstanding playaing career, but the most talented amongst the many luminaries from the county Down?

Try again bogball.

Has Seán O'Neill had a go at management?

good oul david brady.............more interested in a players size and physique than anything else

Quote from: thewobbler on July 12, 2011, 11:28:15 AM
Try again bogball.

i was only messin!!

Greg Blaney was the best Down footballer in my memory, though wee james was close behind.  Linden matured like a fine wine, but was more of a speedster for my money.
As for the sixties, I wasn't around then.

Reckon he means shorty

Quote from: DuffleKing on July 12, 2011, 05:35:07 PM
Reckon he means shorty

Couldn't be, he was a great Trainer.