After the mind numbing week that was in it the media and other wanna bee higher class people of the country really are portraying a false impression of what the majority of the nation are thinking and it is only them and the invitees to yer wans events that say how great and remarkable this visit is.
The like of Vincent Brown, Dunphy and the whole of RTE would sicken your hole over the last 4 days of this figurehead worship horseshit.
VB had a lad on the other night who thought it was great that they gave India back?? He also stated that they will gladly give back the North when a majority vote for it.... not one person on the panel pulled him up on the fact that the majority on this island would vote to get it back. No more VB in our house after that!
I'm not anti British or anti English but the whole false nature and band wagon jumping by the press and TV over the last few days is absolute putrid reporting and does not reflect the true feelings of the vast majority. It is this bandwagon mentality of us Irish (mainly led by the media) that has us where we are today, i.e. the developers trying to out do each other in D4 and elsewhere, the banks trying to out do each other by over lending, ever tom dick and dart user having to have an apartment on the DORT line at 1/2 a mil per sq foot,
Just wondering what other people think thats all.
Yes. I certainly think that a significant proportion of our society see themselves as better than a lot of other people, and completely buy in to the notion that some are privileged, and they love the notion of royalty.
I don't think there's a question that a lot of people would like to be in the Commonwealth. They stop short of wanting to be British, but they are really 'into' the British institutions.
Edit, I just read the rest of your post though, as opposed to just the subject :), and I think you're going overboard. I think the property bubble etc is a symptom of the same thing, rather than a cause of it. As for the foreign shops and all? I presume you're joking.
It's not just the elite/upper echelons of Irish soceity that have a fascination with royalty. It's many ordinary people also plus the majority of mainstream media. I for one dont share or understand it but I think after this week I'm in the minority. For most of them its nothing to do with politics or English/Irish relationships. Its the whole crowns/titles/castles paraphanalia.
QuoteIts the whole crowns/titles/castles paraphanalia.
Yes, where did this mentality come from?
Is it the 800 years of oppression and we now have to strive to become imperialistic ourselves? I think its only a minority really, anyone I've spoken too either doesn't care or hates the whole event.
Good post highorlow.
Quote from: highorlow on May 20, 2011, 11:07:46 AM
After the mind numbing week that was in it the media and other wanna bee higher class people of the country really are portraying a false impression of what the majority of the nation are thinking and it is only them and the invitees to yer wans events that say how great and remarkable this visit is.
The like of Vincent Brown, Dunphy and the whole of RTE would sicken your hole over the last 4 days of this figurehead worship horseshit.
VB had a lad on the other night who thought it was great that they gave India back?? He also stated that they will gladly give back the North when a majority vote for it.... not one person on the panel pulled him up on the fact that the majority on this island would vote to get it back. No more VB in our house after that!
I'm not anti British or anti English but the whole false nature and band wagon jumping by the press and TV over the last few days is absolute putrid reporting and does not reflect the true feelings of the vast majority. It is this bandwagon mentality of us Irish (mainly led by the media) that has us where we are today, i.e. the developers trying to out do each other in D4 and elsewhere, the banks trying to out do each other by over lending, ever tom dick and dart user having to have an apartment on the DORT line at 1/2 a mil per sq foot,
Just wondering what other people think thats all.
I haven't seen any statistics to suggest what the majority view is so are the majority against it due to historical baggage, against it due to cost, or apathetic as it's only the Dubs and Cork folk really involved "and sure you know what they're like"!
Maybe the majority of people have no problem with the royals and its the minority who do?
Quote from: Bingo on May 20, 2011, 12:14:50 PM
Maybe the majority of people have no problem with the royals and its the minority who do?
I think there's two flavours of those 'not opposed' to the visit and all the pomp.
There are those who have 'no problem' with the Royals (like me) and believe that in general this visit is a good a symbolic thing (like me) and who respect the institution as an integral part of a neighbouring equal state (like me).
Then there are those who figuratively drool over the UK Monarchy, and other UK Institutions, and who give the impression that would actually rather have a relationship with the UK beyond friendly neighbours. There seems to be a surfeit of these in public positions, and certainly in those who give us our news through various media. At the very least, I suspect that the likes of Tony O'Reilly, and quite a few other media types would only love if the Queen was 'ours'.
I think if you were to take out all the readers of Hello! Heat, the Sun, the News of the world and the Sunday Times
you would have a stab at the % of the population who are not fascinated by geegaws and slebs and and it wouldn't be a lot of people.
I too have been taken aback by the gushing of the great and the good here. I'm well inured to the anglicisation of popular culture here, from Coronation Street to the Premiership. But I'm very surprised to see the political and intellectual elite falling over themselves to come across as more sycophantic royal worshippers than the royal correspondents of the BBC. Vincent Brown, every cabinet minister who has opened his/her mouth, even some FFers and virtually all of RTÉ's shapers of opinion have all been way over the top.
I'm positively disposed towards the visit and subscribe to the ostensible motive for it as a symbolic underlining of the GFA and the new dispensation, etc. But I really am surprised to see supposedly hard-nosed observers losing all objectivity and twittering about "her majesty" in terms that would remind you of a swooning teenager in the presence of some pop singer. I've seen nothing like it since the Pope came here and sensible people lost the run of themselves in similar fashion. It wasn't surprising in the case of the Pope but is certainly is in the case of the British queen, especially since the official narrative keeps telling us how much we've "grown up" since those days.
Quote from: Hardy on May 20, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
I too have been taken aback by the gushing of the great and the good here. I'm well inured to the anglicisation of popular culture here, from Coronation Street to the Premiership. But I'm very surprised to see the political and intellectual elite falling over themselves to come across as more sycophantic royal worshippers than the royal correspondents of the BBC. Vincent Brown, every cabinet minister who has opened his/her mouth, even some FFers and virtually all of RTÉ's shapers of opinion have all been way over the top.
I'm positively disposed towards the visit and subscribe to the ostensible motive for it as a symbolic underlining of the GFA and the new dispensation, etc. But I really am surprised to see supposedly hard-nosed observers losing all objectivity and twittering about "her majesty" in terms that would remind you of a swooning teenager in the presence of some pop singer. I've seen nothing like it since the Pope came here and sensible people lost the run of themselves in similar fashion. It wasn't surprising in the case of the Pope but is certainly is in the case of the British queen, especially since the official narrative keeps telling us how much we've "grown up" since those days.
+ 100.
Apolgies if this has been previously discussed. But Paul Costello certainly nailed his colours well and truly to the mast in this recent Late Late appearance.
Unfortunately the bit were he talked about the Queen going to Croke Park is not included in the clip but even Ryan Turbity couldn't believe what he was hearing and had to pull him on the significance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBl-Sb3hOc
Quote from: Hardy on May 20, 2011, 12:44:47 PM
I too have been taken aback by the gushing of the great and the good here. I'm well inured to the anglicisation of popular culture here, from Coronation Street to the Premiership. But I'm very surprised to see the political and intellectual elite falling over themselves to come across as more sycophantic royal worshippers than the royal correspondents of the BBC. Vincent Brown, every cabinet minister who has opened his/her mouth, even some FFers and virtually all of RTÉ's shapers of opinion have all been way over the top.
I'm positively disposed towards the visit and subscribe to the ostensible motive for it as a symbolic underlining of the GFA and the new dispensation, etc. But I really am surprised to see supposedly hard-nosed observers losing all objectivity and twittering about "her majesty" in terms that would remind you of a swooning teenager in the presence of some pop singer. I've seen nothing like it since the Pope came here and sensible people lost the run of themselves in similar fashion. It wasn't surprising in the case of the Pope but is certainly is in the case of the British queen, especially since the official narrative keeps telling us how much we've "grown up" since those days.
Very good post Hardy. At least you haven't been exposed to the UTV coverage with Paul Clarke, Ken Reid and some boy McFadden?? trying to out fawn each other. Though I am largely indifferent to the Queen's visit (it's the missus who insists on watching it, honest), I think the impact, to paraphrase Bill Gates on technology, will be "over estimated in the short run and under estimated in the long run"
Have to say I have been taken aback by the number of fawning monarchists on show this week. Where were these folks educated? Obviously not in a CBS :) My own approach is that she is the head of state of our nearest neighbour and as such should be afforded all the normal protocols and priviledges that would be extended to any visiting leader. I also recognise our unique, and unfortunate, history together and that this is another step in a democratic process that started with the Anglo-Irish agreement and was further cemeted by the GFA. However I have no doings with monarchial systems, or privliedge bestowed by accident of birth and as such have had little or no interest in her as a person, other than not wanting to see her harmed in anyway. Similarly to the wedding a few weeks back I cannot for the life of me understand peoples facination with royalty. The whole thing about Kate Middleton going from commoner to Princess? Please, she's the same person she was prior to the cermony, it's not some frigging faerytale. As was mentioned above the views being espoused through the media and around the world that Irish people are some how overjoyed with the visit is at best manufactured. No ordinary citizens have got within an asses roar of her. For the majority of people I've spoken to the emotions range from overwhelming rank indifference to the visit, to concern that nothing go wrong while she is here.
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
A friend described the royals, quite articulately, as Paris Hilton (and her ilk) on steroids.
Quote from: Mentalman on May 20, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
Have to say I have been taken aback by the number of fawning monarchists on show this week. Where were these folks educated? Obviously not in a CBS :) My own approach is that she is the head of state of our nearest neighbour and as such should be afforded all the normal protocols and priviledges that would be extended to any visiting leader. I also recognise our unique, and unfortunate, history together and that this is another step in a democratic process that started with the Anglo-Irish agreement and was further cemeted by the GFA. However I have no doings with monarchial systems, or privliedge bestowed by accident of birth and as such have had little or no interest in her as a person,................ the views being espoused through the media and around the world that Irish people are some how overjoyed with the visit is at best manufactured. No ordinary citizens have got within an asses roar of her.
Sums up my position very well too.
Despite all the gushing sh1te the pictures of Black jeep speeding along empty streets certainly wasn't very impressive.
I agree with the sentiment of the thread. There was even a comment in one of the northern papers yesterday from someone complaining that Enda Kenny made the Queen walk across the room to shake his shand. How dare he, lol.
We also get a lot of grief from people making out that we're bigots cause we dont swoon.
A lot of them certainly have their heads up their arses. What a crock of shit this visit was. She was completely unwelcome here. Look at the security they had to put on. They had Gardai out guarding the sheep in the fields in Tipperary this morning to make sure there was no trouble from them. A made for tv visit with every step she took stage managed.
What a waste of money it was as well at this time. They are going to throw a state funeral for Fitzgerald now as well to throw money away.
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
Indian is simply soup with a lump of chicken floating in it! When I was out drinking we never had an Indian we always had a traditional curry chip to soak up the pints :P The point I am making is that there has been a general anglicanisation of our society over here and it is irreversible.
I think it's broader than that BC. Sure we've had Anglican influences, and that's only natural. I think the more recent erosion of our erstwhile identity comes from the West though, and the general global homogenisation of the whole world. We are caught between 2 hugely influential players in the English Speaking world in the USA and UK, so it's only natural (if a pity) that many of the worst excesses are now apparent in our own country.
Which is why we should celebrate our language, our music, our games and our history as much as we can, so that it doesn't die off under this pressure. For what it's worth, I still feel as Irish as I ever did :D
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
Hold on that's not what BCB is saying, he is pointing out that we have become completely anglicised in our thinking due to the saturation of British entertainment and media that we have to constantly face.
On a monday lads in work talk about soccer teams as if we were from those industrial towns in the north of England - e.g. if UTD scraped a win in the last minute i have heard ''you's were lucky last night'' - as if the person was at the game, a member of the club, a member of that local community etc
we have become an offshore island no different than the shetlands as far as i can see, that's BCB's point.
Old Ireland is dead and gone and it's gone that long it's too old to lament, ironic the day we realise this that Lizzie Windsor is standing at a statue of the Children of Lir.
I'd have to agree with Brokencrossbar. Which is a pity as we have cultural connections to other places but for some reason people feel that the queen of england taking an interest in us somehow validates our existence.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 02:07:13 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
Indian is simply soup with a lump of chicken floating in it! When I was out drinking we never had an Indian we always had a traditional curry chip to soak up the pints :P The point I am making is that there has been a general anglicanisation of our society over here and it is irreversible.
And where did the curry for the curry chip come from? :D I get your point and its true, it could also be called globalisation or Americanisation
Quote from: Orior on May 20, 2011, 02:02:13 PM
I agree with the sentiment of the thread. There was even a comment in one of the northern papers yesterday from someone complaining that Enda Kenny made the Queen walk across the room to shake his shand. How dare he, lol.
We also get a lot of grief from people making out that we're bigots cause we dont swoon.
No need for that sort of thing, Inda!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2011, 02:10:15 PM
I think it's broader than that BC. Sure we've had Anglican influences, and that's only natural. I think the more recent erosion of our erstwhile identity comes from the West though, and the general global homogenisation of the whole world. We are caught between 2 hugely influential players in the English Speaking world in the USA and UK, so it's only natural (if a pity) that many of the worst excesses are now apparent in our own country.
Which is why we should celebrate our language, our music, our games and our history as much as we can, so that it doesn't die off under this pressure. For what it's worth, I still feel as Irish as I ever did :D
There obviously is the influence of the US but I feel there is a greater and more obvious hangover from Britain. I don't expect people to live in thatched cottages and have all the girls dressed in Irish dancing dresses and all the lads playing nothing but hurling or football(well maybe the last bit alright ;D) but I do expect people to have a bit more pride in their own identity. In our drive to become accepted as a country in the New World we have aped so many other countries that we are now a caricature of a country. Time to go and get a mocha and read Hello, slingback-tastic ;D
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2011, 02:00:12 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on May 20, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
Have to say I have been taken aback by the number of fawning monarchists on show this week. Where were these folks educated? Obviously not in a CBS :) My own approach is that she is the head of state of our nearest neighbour and as such should be afforded all the normal protocols and priviledges that would be extended to any visiting leader. I also recognise our unique, and unfortunate, history together and that this is another step in a democratic process that started with the Anglo-Irish agreement and was further cemeted by the GFA. However I have no doings with monarchial systems, or privliedge bestowed by accident of birth and as such have had little or no interest in her as a person,................ the views being espoused through the media and around the world that Irish people are some how overjoyed with the visit is at best manufactured. No ordinary citizens have got within an asses roar of her.
Sums up my position very well too.
Despite all the gushing sh1te the pictures of Black jeep speeding along empty streets certainly wasn't very impressive.
Certainly choreographed right down to the smallest detail, but I'm not surprised in the slightest. The ruling classes in the south seem to think they're entitled to some form of privilege over the masses as much as the British landlords ever were.
In 1922 one class system was replaced by another, simple as.
did Liz not get to press some commoner flesh down in Cashel? Pity she didn't get to see the toothy grim of Cormac Bonnar.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 02:18:42 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 20, 2011, 02:10:15 PM
I think it's broader than that BC. Sure we've had Anglican influences, and that's only natural. I think the more recent erosion of our erstwhile identity comes from the West though, and the general global homogenisation of the whole world. We are caught between 2 hugely influential players in the English Speaking world in the USA and UK, so it's only natural (if a pity) that many of the worst excesses are now apparent in our own country.
Which is why we should celebrate our language, our music, our games and our history as much as we can, so that it doesn't die off under this pressure. For what it's worth, I still feel as Irish as I ever did :D
There obviously is the influence of the US but I feel there is a greater and more obvious hangover from Britain. I don't expect people to live in thatched cottages and have all the girls dressed in Irish dancing dresses and all the lads playing nothing but hurling or football(well maybe the last bit alright ;D) but I do expect people to have a bit more pride in their own identity. In our drive to become accepted as a country in the New World we have aped so many other countries that we are now a caricature of a country. Time to go and get a mocha and read Hello, slingback-tastic ;D
Or get a bottle of porter and read the Press, sensible brogue-tastic ;D
Quote from: AQMP on May 20, 2011, 02:17:57 PM
Quote from: Orior on May 20, 2011, 02:02:13 PM
I agree with the sentiment of the thread. There was even a comment in one of the northern papers yesterday from someone complaining that Enda Kenny made the Queen walk across the room to shake his shand. How dare he, lol.
We also get a lot of grief from people making out that we're bigots cause we dont swoon.
No need for that sort of thing, Inda!
that's the thing. Outside her realm she can get in the queue like everyone else. It's only that the politicians seem to love all the pomp as they probably are royalty in their own heads.
While I'd agree the Anglo influence is not surprising as we share their language, it's obvious for historical reason we now share a lot in common. Their relative influence on us and vice versa can be debated ad infinitum. More specifically around this visit is the issue of monarchism though. I mean I'm all for respecting our neighbours system of government, what with no constitution and a heriditary ruler, but that doesn't mean I'm joining the queue to be their next subject. I mean, was it just me, or was there no way you could go through school in Ireland in the 70s & 80s, learn our history and that of the world and not be left with a least an aversion, if not a revulsion, to all thing relating to monarchies, royalty and aristocracy. After the past few weeks I'm beginning to feel alone in my views. "Sure you'd have to watch the wedding to see the dress". WTF? No I wouldn't. If they were in the back garden I'd close the curtains, if not load up the single barrel to put them out as the tresspassers they are! That last remark is in jest but you know what I mean. It's come to something when we're afraid to be proud to be Republican, and not only in the sense of being Irish Republican. I just don't get it! ???
Great thread high or low. I agree with the majority of posters here.
My only point is - I think it was disgusting the coverage that i saw, particularly from BBC and UTV! (I tried to watch as little as possible)
My reason is that it was the most one sided broadcasting I have ever seen. There was no other side to the 'how great it is to have her here and how well its going' BS!
I'm totally indifferent to the visit but I think its wrong to force this type of opinion down peoples throats particularly when alot of people would be susceptible to it!
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on May 20, 2011, 02:48:05 PM
Great thread high or low. I agree with the majority of posters here.
My only point is - I think it was disgusting the coverage that i saw, particularly from BBC and UTV! (I tried to watch as little as possible)
My reason is that it was the most one sided broadcasting I have ever seen. There was no other side to the 'how great it is to have her here and how well its going' BS!
I'm totally indifferent to the visit but I think its wrong to force this type of opinion down peoples throats particularly when alot of people would be susceptible to it!
I know I've mentioned it on the other thread but your point above was demonstrated so clearly on Vincent Brown the other night, where Aengus Ó'Snodaigh was the only person on the panel opposed to the visit and throughout the entirety of the extended special episode, he was the ONLY panel member who had their opinion challenged at all.
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
I'm not buying into BC1 knocking the Indian takeaway, I'm a better person for discovering the joys of an Indian takeaway. Its my biggest pleasure at the weekend to scoff the Indian down watching X-factor on the box before lying up for the night to watch Match of the Day while enjoying a few cans of Carling.
Quote from: Bingo on May 20, 2011, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
I'm not buying into BC1 knocking the Indian takeaway, I'm a better person for discovering the joys of an Indian takeaway. Its my biggest pleasure at the weekend to scoff the Indian down watching X-factor on the box before lying up for the night to watch Match of the Day while enjoying a few cans of Carling.
LMFAO! WUM!
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on May 20, 2011, 03:22:59 PM
Quote from: Bingo on May 20, 2011, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
I'm not buying into BC1 knocking the Indian takeaway, I'm a better person for discovering the joys of an Indian takeaway. Its my biggest pleasure at the weekend to scoff the Indian down watching X-factor on the box before lying up for the night to watch Match of the Day while enjoying a few cans of Carling.
LMFAO! WUM!
...and shouting a jolly loud "TALLY-HO!!" when one of those delightful chaps scores a goal. Hurrrraaaghhh!
Quote from: Bingo on May 20, 2011, 03:19:57 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on May 20, 2011, 01:55:48 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Nothing wrong with an Indian takeway. Would ye have us all eating bacon and cabbage everynight before the dance at the crossroads.
while enjoying a few cans of Carling.
Damned Canadians
Once she is gone I think there will be a collective sigh of relief all round and for varying reasons.
However I do think there will be a bit of a backlash against the over the top adoration. Has celebrity culture taken over so much that our national behaviour is determined by how famous a person is? I was for the visit, in that I believe it was worth tolerating as we will look back on it as an important step along the road. All sides have taken some difficult steps and there are other steps that will need to be taken some of which won't be palatable to the 'other side'. The Pope in Belfast?
I find myself agreeing with the line taken by the SF leadership. It was probably too much to expect them to meet her at this point in time, but their public utterances were responsible and measured I thought. If the Pope (any ideas for a better comparison?) arrived in Belfast and Robinson behaved similarly I don't to many would complain.
The protests were overplayed in the media I thought. There wasn't really that many protestors and it isn't fair to identify young opportunist thugs with any group when it is obvious most of them were only out to scrap with the cops.
Finally, people who spoke out against the visit are entitled to do so. However those who disagree with them are also allowed to speak out in return. A small number of the former are somehow trying to portray themselves as victims of this speaking out against speaking out.
In my view its all big brother/big neighbour mentality. Of course we are going to be influenced by English/british threads/fashion/culture etc etc, but its only the same way they are look to the west and take influence from the USA. In the modern age, its impossible to avoid - so much instant access to the media that people can choose as they wish and the popular threads are often the most media driven, so it'll not be possible to avoid them.
Many on this thread say we are losing our Irishness but how often have we seen been "Irish" or "Typical Irish effort" laughed and ridiculed on these boards. I've done it and say everyone has. What we class as Irish way of doing things is seen as backwards and we often seek out to do things other ways and keep pace with the modern world. It can also be the case that if the Brits do something British or the Yanks do something american, the comments from this island are "Typical gobshite yanks/brits". So we slate other other nations for retaining their culture ie British Royalty or Yanks fatness, yet we are sad that we are losing ours? ???
On the whole its modern world order and maybe Jim Corr is right, thats what the secret socities want and soon we'll all be the one and impossible to differeniate nations.
Anyone confused? ;D
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 20, 2011, 01:47:22 PM
Lads it is symptomatic of the Pop Idol, Corrie watching Sun reading, Chelsea supporting(insert team), Indian takeaway eating attitude that has been evident in this country for years. Lets have it out in the open, we lost our sense of Irishness, as a nation, a long, long time ago. People spout off about the West Brit/Blueshit when someone disagrees with a republican viewpoint. The reality is that unfortunately the notion of True Republicanism is long dead and lying in the Garden of Remembrance. We all look East for a lot of our entertainment/news/jobs and we have become, understandibly so, very reliant on Britain. This has gnawed away at our identity gradually and will continue to do so. The one thing we have is the GAA and no one can really touch it or compare to it and perhaps it is the last bastion of "irishness", even more so than our own language. The concern though is even it seems to be losing its way as well with the gagging by the President against anyone else speaking about the QUeen's visit. Freedom of speech so long as it doesn't offend ::) I reckon in the last 15 years there are more native Polish speaking people in Ireland than there is Irish speaking. We have allowed our essence to de chipped away and in many ways the forelock tugging by the "great and good" of the last week has put a final nail in that coffin. :(
FFS .
Look at the way people talk, the food we eat, the accents, the mentality . It's what makes us Irish. There is far more to it than the GAA. For anyone who wants it there is the Irish language .
Name a country in Western Europe that isn't fixated on slebs. Consumerism does that to a country. It won't last forever.
http://fatalplanet.blogspot.com/2011/02/on-problem-of-democracy-in-consumptive.html
Quote from: Bingo on May 20, 2011, 04:08:48 PM
In my view its all big brother/big neighbour mentality. Of course we are going to be influenced by English/british threads/fashion/culture etc etc, but its only the same way they are look to the west and take influence from the USA. In the modern age, its impossible to avoid - so much instant access to the media that people can choose as they wish and the popular threads are often the most media driven, so it'll not be possible to avoid them.
Many on this thread say we are losing our Irishness but how often have we seen been "Irish" or "Typical Irish effort" laughed and ridiculed on these boards. I've done it and say everyone has. What we class as Irish way of doing things is seen as backwards and we often seek out to do things other ways and keep pace with the modern world. It can also be the case that if the Brits do something British or the Yanks do something american, the comments from this island are "Typical gobshite yanks/brits". So we slate other other nations for retaining their culture ie British Royalty or Yanks fatness, yet we are sad that we are losing ours? ???
On the whole its modern world order and maybe Jim Corr is right, thats what the secret socities want and soon we'll all be the one and impossible to differeniate nations.
Anyone confused? ;D
Yeah...Jim Corr ;D
I haven't watched TV over the last few days nor tuned into the last word or morning ireland on my transit to and from work because it sickens me to listen to gobshite after gobshite go on about "dragging the irish into the 21st century" and how "mature" we now are. Did all these wankers in the media have a big meeting and decide - "this is how we will sell it to the great unwashed". The media in this country should be ashamed, barely a mention of the Dublin/Monaghan bombs and wall to wall coverage of the british queen. I truly believe they have lost touch with the people on this one as I don't know too many people (bar a couple of women who are just into the whole celebrity thing) who gave two shites what Lizzie got up to. Where was the critical analysis of a country spending 32m on security when we consider the furore over TD expenses and the like. Where was the balance to this debate? I have to say the Vincent Brownes and Matt Coopers of this world shocked me in their attitudes to this
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 20, 2011, 05:24:37 PM
I haven't watched TV over the last few days nor tuned into the last word or morning ireland on my transit to and from work because it sickens me to listen to gobshite after gobshite go on about "dragging the irish into the 21st century" and how "mature" we now are. Did all these w**kers in the media have a big meeting and decide - "this is how we will sell it to the great unwashed". The media in this country should be ashamed, barely a mention of the Dublin/Monaghan bombs and wall to wall coverage of the british queen. I truly believe they have lost touch with the people on this one as I don't know too many people (bar a couple of women who are just into the whole celebrity thing) who gave two shites what Lizzie got up to. Where was the critical analysis of a country spending 32m on security when we consider the furore over TD expenses and the like. Where was the balance to this debate? I have to say the Vincent Brownes and Matt Coopers of this world shocked me in their attitudes to this
For someone who opened by saying they haven't watched tv the last few days or listened to the radio you sure have alot to say alot about what the media have said the last few days.
Drivetime and The Last Word are absolutely sickening this evening. Have these people no sense of dignity fawning over thon oul one as if she is the second coming or something. And as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame? A little tickle on the belly from the English and they morph into the fecking Irish RM.
QuoteAnd as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame?
This is typical Cork people for you, they have to have the one up on the Dubs, they are the Real Capital after all and we have all to bow down to their greatness, (except of course on a football field where they have lived off our scraps for years :P)
Langers All.
PS....jaysus KM its only May, calm it down ta f**k a bitteen..
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 05:39:37 PM
Drivetime and The Last Word are absolutely sickening this evening. Have these people no sense of dignity fawning over thon oul one as if she is the second coming or something. And as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame? A little tickle on the belly from the English and they morph into the fecking Irish RM.
Who the Jaysus said that? I'm glad she came, glad she had a nice little visit, but now she's gone, and it's time for the morons who drooled all over the poor woman to cop the f**k on.
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 05:39:37 PM
Drivetime and The Last Word are absolutely sickening this evening. Have these people no sense of dignity fawning over thon oul one as if she is the second coming or something. And as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame? A little tickle on the belly from the English and they morph into the fecking Irish RM.
Stop whinging and do something about it. Ring them and tell them what you think.
p.s. let me know which show you are on before you ring......
Unfortunately The Last Word doesn't take calls or texts from north of the border.
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Unfortunately The Last Word doesn't take calls or texts from north of the border.
You can leave comments on their website or email them......
Quote from: muppet on May 20, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Unfortunately The Last Word doesn't take calls or texts from north of the border.
You can leave comments on their website or email them......
And be treated as a reactionary, or ignored, or be accussed of sympathising with paramilitaries....
Quote from: Mentalman on May 20, 2011, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 20, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Unfortunately The Last Word doesn't take calls or texts from north of the border.
You can leave comments on their website or email them......
And be treated as a reactionary, or ignored, or be accussed of sympathising with paramilitaries....
If you want, or you could go for balanced alternative view.
Quote from: muppet on May 20, 2011, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: Mentalman on May 20, 2011, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 20, 2011, 06:10:50 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 06:07:42 PM
Unfortunately The Last Word doesn't take calls or texts from north of the border.
You can leave comments on their website or email them......
And be treated as a reactionary, or ignored, or be accussed of sympathising with paramilitaries....
If you want, or you could go for balanced alternative view.
What you or I might think is a balanced alternative view would be treated as reactionary when there is such a cosy consensus in the media, I think at least. Hate to use a phrase from Nixon, but what appears to be the feelings of the silent majority have no place in the media royalty love-in.
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 05:39:37 PM
. And as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame?
Jasus Chr1st !!!! Have they no bit of dignity or self respect left in them the stupid shower of c**ts. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2011, 08:35:31 PM
Quote from: Ulick on May 20, 2011, 05:39:37 PM
. And as for those Cork ones proclaiming they were always the "most Royal and the most loyal of all the dominions" have they no f**king shame?
Jasus Chr1st !!!! Have they no bit of dignity or self respect left in them the stupid shower of c**ts. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
In fairness it only takes a couple of pricks to get into a photo so it is hardly representative of the whole county, the last to fall during the civil war.
the pictures of Black jeep speeding along empty streets certainly wasn't very impressive.
[/quote]
We all know why the streets were empty. Hopefully one day soon the threat from hoods and gangsters will be at last a thing of the past.
There is a bit of snobbery everywhere. You see it, or maybe not when some organisations or groups keep the Royal in their name-i. e. R.D.S.
Quote from: dillinger on May 20, 2011, 08:50:35 PM
the pictures of Black jeep speeding along empty streets certainly wasn't very impressive.
We all know why the streets were empty. Hopefully one day soon the threat from hoods and gangsters will be at last a thing of the past.
There is a bit of snobbery everywhere. You see it, or maybe not when some organisations or groups keep the Royal in their name-i. e. R.D.S.
[/quote]
The Royal County?
When is Kevin Myarse's next column. That should be good :D
anyone hear myarse on the radio saying that the proof of Ireland's new affection for Ireland would be people supporting England in soccer matches! Cooper was laughing at him saying that the Welsh and Scots want to shout for anyone but England as well but Myarse wouldn't listen to anything! What a tool Myarse is!
All this talk about the rights and wrongs of royalty. I think the Irish are pretty clear in their desire for power to be vested in the people and not a hereditary monarch, so in Ireland (or at least most of it) the people have adopted a republic as the system of choice. As for the British system, that's up to the British people to decide how they want to run things. It may baffle outsiders, but the fact is the British monarchy will remain in place for as long as it remains popular among the British people. Unless he's living in the UK where he pays taxes and votes, it's not the place of an Irishman to tell the Brits how to run their country. Look how pissed off we are at the Germans trying to strong-arm the republic into raising corporate tax rates. Sovereignty is something people tend to be a bit protective of.
With hindsight, the fact is that the 26 counties were never 'as one' in their antipathy towards the English and the Royals. In 1922, a whole class of Castle Catholics - who had done very, very well out of English rule - were now asked to fall-in behind a crowd of former rebels who were now in government. That West Brit / Dublin 4 class would hold their loyalties and it became apparent again over the past four days. During the last monarch's visit to Dublin the place was festooned in bunting and red, white and blue and cheering masses. Just goes to show that - and this is a fact! - Ireland dearly loves a lord and lady.
I don't think that the upper echelons are leading the way in this. In all strata of society there are readers of British rags newspapers,.and it is Liverpool this and Manchester that. Media people like something to talk about, and think they'll be invited to the big bash. There are shoneens out there who have now come out of the woodwork, when Franco entered Barcelona after the Spanish civil war there were people to cheer him. But probably not that many, people who have an interest are much more likely to ring in etc than someone who couldn't give a damn.
But QEII is a professional, the world's longest established public figure. She wanted to come and she contributed her own bit, and people recognise that contribution too without being royalists.
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on May 20, 2011, 09:25:57 PM
With hindsight, the fact is that the 26 counties were never 'as one' in their antipathy towards the English and the Royals. In 1922, a whole class of Castle Catholics - who had done very, very well out of English rule - were now asked to fall-in behind a crowd of former rebels who were now in government. That West Brit / Dublin 4 class would hold their loyalties and it became apparent again over the past four days. During the last monarch's visit to Dublin the place was festooned in bunting and red, white and blue and cheering masses. Just goes to show that - and this is a fact! - Ireland dearly loves a lord and lady.
This always makes me laugh. Parts of D4 have over 70% unemployment and a serious drug problems (and I'm not talking about RTE). In 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.
QuoteIn 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.
Not quite, the big houses on Raglan Road, Lansdowne Road etc were there for most of a century before that. Pembroke had its own (unionist) council and wasn't part of Dublin Corporation.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 20, 2011, 10:00:15 PM
QuoteIn 1922 what is now know as D4 would have been farmland with the only population living in a few small (still there and not very salubrious) cottages.
Not quite, the big houses on Raglan Road, Lansdowne Road etc were there for most of a century before that. Pembroke had its own (unionist) council and wasn't part of Dublin Corporation.
Nationalists took control of that Council in 1911 when the elections were more 'democratic'.
Quote from: mylestheslasher on May 20, 2011, 05:24:37 PM
I haven't watched TV over the last few days nor tuned into the last word or morning ireland on my transit to and from work because it sickens me to listen to gobshite after gobshite go on about "dragging the irish into the 21st century" and how "mature" we now are. Did all these w**kers in the media have a big meeting and decide - "this is how we will sell it to the great unwashed". The media in this country should be ashamed, barely a mention of the Dublin/Monaghan bombs and wall to wall coverage of the british queen. I truly believe they have lost touch with the people on this one as I don't know too many people (bar a couple of women who are just into the whole celebrity thing) who gave two shites what Lizzie got up to. Where was the critical analysis of a country spending 32m on security when we consider the furore over TD expenses and the like. Where was the balance to this debate? I have to say the Vincent Brownes and Matt Coopers of this world shocked me in their attitudes to this
Just as you agreed with me on something else some other time this week regarding the visit of lizzieI totally 100% agree with you myles. I didn't watch much tv. FFS how many people could be employed with €30 million etc. I was sick of everyone saying 'oh I hope she has a great time'. Couldn't believe it when my dad told me "it's all the friggin' queen" on tv! I knew there'd be some coverage, but not every move she made. Ah, maybe I'm immature, living in the past etc. ::)
There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.
I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.
The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.
Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 20, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Independence has been a failure.
And British rule was a roaring success?
Kevin Myarse on Late Late show now with some other sycophants.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2011, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 20, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Independence has been a failure.
And British rule was a roaring success?
I didn't say that, and it's not something that logically follows. If you say Trappatoni is managing the ROI soccer team badly, does that mean Steve Staunton was a roaring success? Bad things don't take turns to happen old stock. They can come in bunches.
(No offense to Signor Trap, btw. I think he's doing a fine job, actually).
"Ireland is back". It's official.
Great balance on Vincent browne tonight. 4 guests delighted with the queen and so proud of Ireland etc etc. The balance provided by Jim corr who talked about Dublin/monaghan bombs before Vincent told him to stop wrecking me buzz.
Don't be ashamed of Ireland, it is the tentacles of the media which should be ashamed. The ordinary joes aren't a quarter as interested as these media outlets would have us believe
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2011, 10:47:24 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 20, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.
I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.
The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.
Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.
Fcuk it, I'll say it, +1 feet first!! Today's Ireland is an embarrassment to those who fought for her freedom. Magpie Seanie said that we are a nation of f**king cretins (paraphrase), + f**king 1 on that too.
Irish in name only.
Throwing in the towel is to easy lads.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 20, 2011, 10:45:13 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 20, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Independence has been a failure.
And British rule was a roaring success?
A failure so far maybe. Independence might haven't lived up to all its promises but it means we need to try harder to make it work. The recession and effects of our unbelievable tolerance of political corruption will hopefully have woke a few people up. But pining for the Empire isn't going to solve anything, it will further doom us. We need to reassert ourselves and strive for some true social unity and social justice, instead of the "mé féin" day dream we've had for the last few years.
Quote from: hardstation on May 20, 2011, 10:47:24 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 20, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
There seems to be general consensus on this Board about the visit. So how come that view isn't expressed in mainstream media? That's some indictment on mainstream media.
I think AZ put his finger on it. As a small nation, if we want to stand among the nations of the Earth we have to try harder than big nations to create an identity and promote that identity. And Broken Crossbar is correct - we've failed utterly to do that. Failed utterly.
The sad truth is that independence happened by accident. The 1918 elections were a trick of the light. The reality is that the majority population on the island likes being a part of British culture just fine. The men watch the soccer teams and the women watch the X-Factor. That's who we are. Independence has been a failure. We don't want to make the necessary effort to be an independent state. We just don't.
Depressing stuff to write on a Friday night but the Queen's visit has damn near broken me. I want to be proud of Ireland. I went back to learn the language after the mess school left it in my head. But my God, I feel more than a little out of step with my nation with every day that passes.
Fcuk it, I'll say it, +1 feet first!! Today's Ireland is an embarrassment to those who fought for her freedom. Magpie Seanie said that we are a nation of f**king cretins (paraphrase), + f**king 1 on that too.
Irish in name only.
In my opinion, that's bollocks.
Standing up for yourself against an oppressor is one thing and an admirable stance. Attempting to define or defend what a national identity is is just a waste of life. You're born on a piece of land (unless you're aboard the Stena) on a planet in a solar system which appears to be the only one capable sustaining human life. Just define your own set of morals and promote that instead of working out what it is to be known as an Irishman.
Today's Ireland is an embarrassment for those who fought for her freedom? Today's Ireland is simply a result of the Americanisation and Anglicisation we embrace and there's not one fcuker here who doesn't whether it's eating a Big Mac to prefers Eminem over Planxty to watching Utd instead of Finn Harps.
We need to lose this complex of thinking we're defending something of cultural value. Open your mind and you'll see that the earth is the earth is the earth whether you're in Cairns, Alabama or Gortin. Yes, traditional music and dance as well as the more literary arts are a treasure but believe me, they're healthy if you look hard enough.
Create an identity and promote an identity? Just be a decent soul and promote that approach to life and you'll find that's the best identity of all.
As for the upper echelons - they're only that if you view them as that.
Hasn't Lizzie had some lovely green dresses on her this week?
I like that post O'Neill by the way, is there a thumbs up button her somewhere??
Interesting comment from Mary Mc Aleese quoted in todays Irish News, where she described her short stint as a presenter in R.T.E. as the worst period of her life. She said that because she was a Woman,A Northener, and a Nationalist she was viewed as the Triumphverate of evil by R.T.E. management. Interestingly Donnacha o Dulaing in his autobiography said that to be suspected of holding Nationalist views, however mild or constitutional, was the death knell for advancement in R.T.E.
Reading the contributions on this topic, which are very true and insightful, i am convinced in my belief that the strongest argument we can put up to dissident republicans, to dissuade them from their folly, is that the present generation of Irish people are not worth fighting for, they have bartered and sold any pretensions or right to independence
Quote from: hardstation on May 21, 2011, 12:43:28 AM
How was the 26 county independence gained?
25 seconds in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_U6U8iiTg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_U6U8iiTg)
Quote from: hardstation on May 21, 2011, 12:47:44 AM
You stand for nothing, live for nothing, aspire to nothing.
Go to Paris and live the lazy life. No £200 for passing go.
And that's the source of the problem. We think standing for something is directly related to the land you're born on or may dwell. That's how close-minded this nation is in terms of what or who you are.
QuoteYou stand for nothing, live for nothing, aspire to nothing.
+1
Those man of the world attitudes are all well and good but what they really allow for is something to push in and define your world for you.
As Ghandi said,
I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all lands to be blow about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any."You can see the world and all its cultures but if you stand for everything and anything you'll stand for nothing.
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 12:56:23 AM
QuoteYou stand for nothing, live for nothing, aspire to nothing.
+1
Those man of the world attitudes are all well and good but what they really allow for is something to push in and define your world for you.
As Ghandi said, I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all lands to be blow about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any."
You can see the world and all its cultures but if you stand for everything and anything you'll stand for nothing.
So, the young lad in Uganda whose parents have succumbed to aids and attempts to raise his own siblings in the best way he can by simply surviving on pickled shit has no discernible identity (or stands for nothing) cos he doesn't consider his national identity as important right now? Some have lost all perspective with an oul lady's visit. Others place the media's interpretation as a much higher value than their own.
Are you living on pickled shit right now? I'm not sure how that example is relevant.
When that Ugandan kid gets on his feet again but wants to strive for social justice for him and his fellow Ugandans his national/social awareness will become more acute when he seeks out those who may have caused his suffering.
The gist of recent posts is that having a national identity is ultimate. To me, it's way down the line after personal and public morals in terms of humanity. I'd rather have a friend who stood for honesty, goodness and loyalty than some hoor who'd slit your throat over a fiver but can sing Black Velvet Band.
Hugh O'Neill et al were a horrible shower.
Like mushrooms?
Personal morality and national/social identity operate on different scales. Everyone in every mode of society wants in a friend what you said. That universal. If you look on Maslows hierarchy of needs, self determination doesn't come above food security and other needs.
But society's are more complex and they need direction.
But in a world where there are people and groups that are out to exploit, if there is no common morality and no unifying force people will get taken to the cleaners. Exploitation thrives in an atomized society. And a national identity can be a very strong force in this regard. and it doesn't have to lead to cutting throats or murder.
It can mean standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty. The very standards you can set for a nation/society to stand for.
Right now I stand for bedtime
Good night lads.
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 01:55:36 AM
But in a world where there are people and groups that are out to exploit, if there is no common morality and no unifying force people will get taken to the cleaners. Exploitation thrives in an atomized society. And a national identity can be a very strong force in this regard. and it doesn't have to lead to cutting throats or murder.
It can mean standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty. The very standards you can set for a nation/society to stand for.
Sounds very like what my idea of what a Republic should be.
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 01:55:36 AM
Personal morality and national/social identity operate on different scales. Everyone in every mode of society wants in a friend what you said. That universal. If you look on Maslows hierarchy of needs, self determination doesn't come above food security and other needs.
But society's are more complex and they need direction.
But in a world where there are people and groups that are out to exploit, if there is no common morality and no unifying force people will get taken to the cleaners. Exploitation thrives in an atomized society. And a national identity can be a very strong force in this regard. and it doesn't have to lead to cutting throats or murder.
It can mean standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty. The very standards you can set for a nation/society to stand for.
I understand that but I do not align 'standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty' with anything other than decent human traits and beliefs, alien to a sense of nationality or what your nation represents which in my opinion is an outdated approach.
Anyway, I'm more concerned now about Hugh O'Neill and the mushrooms.
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2011, 09:21:15 AM
I understand that but I do not align 'standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty' with anything other than decent human traits and beliefs, alien to a sense of nationality or what your nation represents which in my opinion is an outdated approach.
Anyway, I'm more concerned now about Hugh O'Neill and the mushrooms.
I get where you are coming from BUT what about society, or the society our children are born into? One person acting with integrity is one thing, but not much in the face of nobody else, or a large section of society, not paying any heed to these values, as we've seen recently in the south. Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, and her modern acolytes maintain this belief. Personally I think it's one of the most invidious notions of our times, we have to aspire to something beyond ourselves, our immediate family, our GAA club, otherwise the door is open to injustice and tyranny. Anyway, I'm mixing up the personal with the national and society...
It's true, them shroomies be's a hoor :)
Quote from: ONeill on May 21, 2011, 09:21:15 AM
Quote from: thejuice on May 21, 2011, 01:55:36 AM
Personal morality and national/social identity operate on different scales. Everyone in every mode of society wants in a friend what you said. That universal. If you look on Maslows hierarchy of needs, self determination doesn't come above food security and other needs.
But society's are more complex and they need direction.
But in a world where there are people and groups that are out to exploit, if there is no common morality and no unifying force people will get taken to the cleaners. Exploitation thrives in an atomized society. And a national identity can be a very strong force in this regard. and it doesn't have to lead to cutting throats or murder.
It can mean standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty. The very standards you can set for a nation/society to stand for.
I understand that but I do not align 'standing up for justice, social standards, political transparency, honesty and loyalty' with anything other than decent human traits and beliefs, alien to a sense of nationality or what your nation represents which in my opinion is an outdated approach.
Anyway, I'm more concerned now about Hugh O'Neill and the mushrooms.
I have all their CDs
I'm with O'Neill.
A National Identity cannot be defined by one viewpoint or that in itself would be suppression.
If you jump into the future and stand at the end of the United Ireland road, looking backwards, there are events you will see that had to happen to complete the road. Some of these events will not have been palatable and some may have happened out of sequence. But they will all need to have happened to reach, not simply a United Ireland, but ideally one that the Unionists and Britain can accept. Aiming short of that and simply suiting ourselves, would be making the same mistake the Brits made.
I found the over the top fawning hard to stomach but I am rationalising it, not as a new found Irish royalism, but as another sign that people do not want a return to the hatred and the fighting.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 20, 2011, 10:19:06 PM
FFS how many people could be employed with €30 million etc.
Just on the €30m, there's no doubt that valid arguments can be made that it could have been better spent elsewhere. But it's not as if €30m was 'lost' to the Irish economy, is it?
I'm guessing a significant amount of money was spent on Garda overtime. Take 20% (or whatever the income tax rate would be) that would be heading straight back into the coffers. Then how much of the other 80% is spent in the local economy?
Similarly with any money spent on other contractors - they'll have paid staff. They'll pay corporation tax etc etc etc...
So again, whilst there might have been better ways to spend it, am I not right in thinking that it's not quite 'flushed down the toilet'?
This thread has restored my faith in Irish humanity, so many great posts that say whats been on my mind all week in a much better way than i could ever wish to express it.
Now Vincent Brown is off on an anti American rant. Empty rhetoric stuff he just said..... what a flaming c unt ...
Quote from: highorlow on May 23, 2011, 11:22:03 PM
Now Vincent Brown is off on an anti American rant. Empty rhetoric stuff he just said..... what a flaming c **t ...
Exactly Highorlow!
Sitting there with sour puss on him because none of the panel agreed with him that Obama's speech had a "coded meaning" about unwillingness to help Ireland. Full of praise for the Queen a few days ago by contrast.
Quote from: ross matt on May 23, 2011, 11:32:16 PM
Quote from: highorlow on May 23, 2011, 11:22:03 PM
Now Vincent Brown is off on an anti American rant. Empty rhetoric stuff he just said..... what a flaming c **t ...
Exactly Highorlow!
Sitting there with sour puss on him because none of the panel agreed with him that Obama's speech had a "coded meaning" about unwillingness to help Ireland. Full of praise for the Queen a few days ago by contrast.
This is how much the US wants to help Ireland:
(from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0507/1224296372123.html))
The IMF, which believes that lenders should pay for their stupidity before it has to reach into its pocket, presented the Irish with a plan to haircut €30 billion of unguaranteed bonds by two-thirds on average. Lenihan was overjoyed, according to a source who was there, telling the IMF team: "You are Ireland's salvation."
The deal was torpedoed from an unexpected direction. At a conference call with the G7 finance ministers, the haircut was vetoed by US treasury secretary Timothy Geithner who, as his payment of $13 billion from government-owned AIG to Goldman Sachs showed, believes that bankers take priority over taxpayers. The only one to speak up for the Irish was UK chancellor George Osborne, but Geithner, as always, got his way.
I shared a room with my grandfather until he died at 85 and when I was 12. He had seen active service with the IRA in the 20's Never heard him speak of it but my mother did a little. She had a very strong republican leaning obviously with that background. I never heard her give out so much as after coming home from a pilgrimage to lough derg at the impudence of the spotty english soldiers who stopped and boarded the pilgrimage bus pulling out bags as they went up and down the bus. But at the same time she always had a fascination for the british royal family. It was just a human reaction to the pomp and glamour attached to the royals. The point is, its nothing to do with "upper echelons" its just human reaction regardless of class. After all it wasnt upper echelons who threw vegetables and fruit at the "heroes" of 1916.