QuoteFightback must begin on the ground in rural areas
The GAA's place is more important than ever in these difficult times, writes Páidí ó Sé
By Paidi O Se
Sunday March 06 2011
TWO of the three great bastions of the old order in rural Ireland have collapsed -- the Catholic Church and the Fianna Fáil party. While the third, the GAA, is in robust good health, there is nonetheless great uncertainty about the future in many rural clubs.
By virtue of the single-mindedness, wisdom and vision of many of the people who ran the GAA over the years, in many ways the association has never been stronger.
But we are in danger of creating a rural wasteland because of bureaucratic red tape, emigration and economic decline, and all this is being exacerbated by the exodus of good players to the big clubs as revealed in Damian Lawlor's story in this newspaper today.
There is no doubt that the big clubs can offer substantial incentives to the most talented young players such as cannot be matched by small clubs in the country.
Some very big clubs have the backing of leading business people, many of whom are in the position of being able to set up jobs for young players who join their clubs.
Jobs are like gold dust in the midst of this terrible recession, and it is a temptation hard to resist for many young men who want to get on in life. As well as that, it is often the case that such businessmen have lots of spare property on their hands, with the result that the players they recruit can be fixed up with apartments or houses.
Rural Ireland is in danger of becoming a wasteland because of red tape. I am not arguing that farmers' sons and families should be allowed to build houses wherever they like, but the present situation is far too restrictive.
The planners -- who seem to know everything -- want to have an urbanised structure in society and they don't understand the appeal of a countryside dotted with modern dwellings.
We all know that the great curse of emigration has resumed and this is in danger of denuding GAA clubs of some of their best players in the remoter parts of the country.
We know that dance halls were one of the hubs of social life in rural Ireland and that they have now disappeared. The country pub is in danger of going the same way because of the restrictive drink-driving laws. It is all too depressing a vista and the prospect of a rural wasteland is something we must fight against with every fibre of our being.
It is no use having great football and hurling pitches and excellent facilities and dressing rooms if there are no players to use them. We can all do something, every single one of us. This weekend, I have been once again running my own Tayto Topaz Comórtas Peile Páidí ó Sé in West Kerry. Eight men's and eight women's teams
have been taking part, including three from London, and the finals are in Gallarus today, the ladies' at 12.30pm and the men's at 2.0pm.
In its own way, this Comórtas is a measure of what can be achieved with a bit of commitment, and I have got the most tremendous support in West Kerry for this venture. In this area, 85 self-catering houses are completely full for this weekend, as are the hotels in the region.
It is a very badly-needed boost for us all and if the same effort could be replicated in every village in Ireland, the economic landscape would be dramatically altered.
PS: I've never mentioned cricket before in this column, but I would like to congratulate the Irish cricket team on its fantastic win over England in the World Cup last Wednesday in India.
Kevin O'Brien's sensational innings and his scoring of the fastest century in the history of the World Cup now ranks with the greatest achievements in sport by any Irishman or any other nationality for that matter.
My congratulations to those great sportsmen.
- Paidi O Se
I'm going to disagree with you there, Paidi. This isn't going to be a popular view, but rural depopulation and increased urbanisation is a sign of a developed country. It's inevitable. It took place in the UK at the time of the industrial revolution, it happened to a certain extent in the north of Ireland at the same time, but it passed a lot of Ireland by. Ireland went straight to the IT/service industries which doesn't depend on urbanisation so much, but it still works better in towns and cities.
People move from the country to city because the bigger the city, the more employment options are open to them. Farm work is so automated or mechanised now that you don't need an army of rural workers. That's the way it is everywhere, not just in Ireland.
I can see the appeal of living in a single house out in the country, I grew up in one, but is that kind of living sustainable? What if everyone tried to live the same way? You'd have bungalow blight all over the country far worse than it is now, and traffic on country roads would be diabolical because everyone lives so far away from everything that driving is the only feasible way to get around. Forget about the carbon footprint for a second, but look at what all that driving does to quality of life. The 'quiet country road' becomes a myth because of everyone trying to commute into town where the jobs are and young fellas ripping and tearing up and down the roads in their souped-up cars at other times. Pollution is not to be sniffed at either. With everyone driving diesel cars to save money, the amount of particulates in the the air has everyone breathing in a cloud of soot. Not good for you.
Then there's the small matter of rural isolation. People are sociable animals. This business of living in isolated locations is not natural. Even the GAA recognises this problem, sure they launched a program called the GAA Social Initiative to reach out to men living in the country who have little or no social contact.
Rural pubs are closing? Play me the world's smallest violin! There's enough alcohol consumed and the last thing we need is pubs in areas where drunk driving is the most popular means of getting home.
And what of the small matter of maintaining the roads and taking away the waste produced by country dwellers? Are you happy having a big chunk of your pay packet going towards the cost of that in your taxes?
In England, if you live in 'the country' it means you live in a village. You still have acres of fields to admire out the back, but when you need a pint of milk you can still walk to the store and get one instead of having to strap yourself into a two ton vehicle and drive there.
I'm not saying people should be forced to live in cities, but the fact is that's the way people are increasingly choosing to live. It's a long term trend that becomes more noticeable during a recession when people are the most desperate for work and are more inclined to make the move. You can sit there like King Canute ordering the tide to go back out, but you're going to look a bit silly.
[Sits back and waits for the feather to fly]
Restrictive drink driving laws? God bless his troubles!
Agree with Eamonn. A reduction on population within rural communities as a sure sign of development. I'm originally from a very rural area and small GAA club but moved to Sligo town for education, work, ease of life etc.
It's a very difficult issue regarding rural players being attracted to bigger urban clubs. Persoanlly I believe bigger clubs should not be allowed to poach players as is the case in Dublin. However where players genuinely live and work in the area they can seek a transfer. Sorry, but I have no idea how this should be policed but as long as the GAA turn a blind eye to this then smaller clubs will get smaller and bigger clubs get bigger.
Quote from: ck on March 06, 2011, 05:26:08 PM
Agree with Eamonn. A reduction on population within rural communities as a sure sign of development. I'm originally from a very rural area and small GAA club but moved to Sligo town for education, work, ease of life etc.
It's a very difficult issue regarding rural players being attracted to bigger urban clubs. Persoanlly I believe bigger clubs should not be allowed to poach players as is the case in Dublin. However where players genuinely live and work in the area they can seek a transfer. Sorry, but I have no idea how this should be policed but as long as the GAA turn a blind eye to this then smaller clubs will get smaller and bigger clubs get bigger.
Rather than resisting the tide, the GAA could help to make it easier to establish new urban clubs. Does the Games Development department have a recipe or procedure that people can follow when starting a new club? I know we have in the US colleges (http://ncgaa.org/?page_id=18) since starting new clubs is a big part of what we do.
Paidi is wrong on the drink driving. There are powerful forces of centralisation, but that is no reason why measures such as broadband cannot be taken to make life modern in all parts of the country. Increased urbanisation is the death of the GAA or indeed any real sense of Irish identity. It is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2011, 05:50:53 PM
Increased urbanisation is the death of the GAA or indeed any real sense of Irish identity.
So you're only a real Irishman if you're a culchie?
I'm from Lurgan where there's about half a dozen GAA clubs in the town with long established rivalries. The GAA in the town is as strong as ever.
There's about 17 clubs in San Francisco, and it wasn't until a few years ago that there was even a dedicated set of GAA fields for them to play on.
The GAA can't survive in an urban environment? I don't buy it.
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
At least half of them were won when their team was full of lads from the country.
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 06, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
At least half of them were won when their team was full of lads from the country.
IMO the making of Dublin GAA was the getting rid of country lads playing for them.
Quote from: spuds on March 06, 2011, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 06, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
At least half of them were won when their team was full of lads from the country.
IMO the making of Dublin GAA was the getting rid of country lads playing for them.
True Spuds, it was also good for the rural counties, not having their players stolen away. It wasn't just Dublin, didn't Louth profit from Mayo and Galway players in the 1950's
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 06, 2011, 08:51:01 PM
Quote from: spuds on March 06, 2011, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 06, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
At least half of them were won when their team was full of lads from the country.
IMO the making of Dublin GAA was the getting rid of country lads playing for them.
True Spuds, it was also good for the rural counties, not having their players stolen away. It wasn't just Dublin, didn't Louth profit from Mayo and Galway players in the 1950's
2 Mayomen on Louth All Ireland winning team in 1957. Did Frank Stockwell of the 'terrible twins' fame play for Louth ? Know he lived there for a long time.
Edit: see he did in 1950 & 1951
Quote from: spuds on March 06, 2011, 09:40:14 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 06, 2011, 08:51:01 PM
Quote from: spuds on March 06, 2011, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on March 06, 2011, 06:51:47 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 06:26:50 PM
QuoteIt is no accident that Antrim and Dublin win little when compared to less populated places.
Dublin have won 22 All Ireland football titles, only Kerry has surpassed that.
At least half of them were won when their team was full of lads from the country.
IMO the making of Dublin GAA was the getting rid of country lads playing for them.
True Spuds, it was also good for the rural counties, not having their players stolen away. It wasn't just Dublin, didn't Louth profit from Mayo and Galway players in the 1950's
2 Mayomen on Louth All Ireland winning team in 1957. Did Frank Stockwell of the 'terrible twins' fame play for Louth ? Know he lived there for a long time.
Edit: see he did in 1950 & 1951
Pretty sure Stockwell did too, he was a Garda wasn't he.
i'm going against all of ye on this. there is no reason to say an urbanised population means a more developed country - thats bull.
Our rural depopulation is due to decisions taken at planning level and local government. people would live in rural Ireland through sustainable spatial development
If villages had private or public houses built in them on a sustainable cluster plan and not the linear planning obsession which prevails in Ireland then the local post office could be kept open, along with the local school, garda station, shop, pub and GAA club. allied to that services could easily be provided in the village - sewage, broadband etc
Allied to this a proper local bus service could then be provided as a centralised population is in each village.
it would follow the dutch model where the countryside is kept green and houses are built in small hamlets/villages
the main obstacle to this is every two bit farmer wanting to build 2/3 houses on their land with road frontage.
councils need to be far more proactive in provising serviced sites in villages which will promote proper rural living
Quote from: neilthemac on March 06, 2011, 11:30:19 PM
i'm going against all of ye on this. there is no reason to say an urbanised population means a more developed country - thats bull.
Our rural depopulation is due to decisions taken at planning level and local government. people would live in rural Ireland through sustainable spatial development
If villages had private or public houses built in them on a sustainable cluster plan and not the linear planning obsession which prevails in Ireland then the local post office could be kept open, along with the local school, garda station, shop, pub and GAA club. allied to that services could easily be provided in the village - sewage, broadband etc
Allied to this a proper local bus service could then be provided as a centralised population is in each village.
it would follow the dutch model where the countryside is kept green and houses are built in small hamlets/villages
the main obstacle to this is every two bit farmer wanting to build 2/3 houses on their land with road frontage.
councils need to be far more proactive in provising serviced sites in villages which will promote proper rural living
I knew a Dutch girl and she said she was from a village, turns out its population was 80,000. One mans Village is another mans City.
Quote from: neilthemac on March 06, 2011, 11:30:19 PM
i'm going against all of ye on this. there is no reason to say an urbanised population means a more developed country - thats bull.
Our rural depopulation is due to decisions taken at planning level and local government. people would live in rural Ireland through sustainable spatial development
If villages had private or public houses built in them on a sustainable cluster plan and not the linear planning obsession which prevails in Ireland then the local post office could be kept open, along with the local school, garda station, shop, pub and GAA club. allied to that services could easily be provided in the village - sewage, broadband etc
Allied to this a proper local bus service could then be provided as a centralised population is in each village.
it would follow the dutch model where the countryside is kept green and houses are built in small hamlets/villages
the main obstacle to this is every two bit farmer wanting to build 2/3 houses on their land with road frontage.
councils need to be far more proactive in provising serviced sites in villages which will promote proper rural living
I'm with you on everything except the "urbanisation doesn't mean more developed" thing. By all means live in the country, just do so sensibly and don't be scattered all over the place the way it is now.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 07, 2011, 12:20:34 AM
Quote from: neilthemac on March 06, 2011, 11:30:19 PM
i'm going against all of ye on this. there is no reason to say an urbanised population means a more developed country - thats bull.
Our rural depopulation is due to decisions taken at planning level and local government. people would live in rural Ireland through sustainable spatial development
If villages had private or public houses built in them on a sustainable cluster plan and not the linear planning obsession which prevails in Ireland then the local post office could be kept open, along with the local school, garda station, shop, pub and GAA club. allied to that services could easily be provided in the village - sewage, broadband etc
Allied to this a proper local bus service could then be provided as a centralised population is in each village.
it would follow the dutch model where the countryside is kept green and houses are built in small hamlets/villages
the main obstacle to this is every two bit farmer wanting to build 2/3 houses on their land with road frontage.
councils need to be far more proactive in provising serviced sites in villages which will promote proper rural living
I knew a Dutch girl and she said she was from a village, turns out its population was 80,000. One mans Village is another mans City.
All very interesting, but did you close the deal?
I see Páidís young fella is a chip off the old block.
Busted some lad just after the throw-in and got the line in the Munster schools final yesterday. :o
Quote from: Jinxy on March 07, 2011, 10:15:44 AM
I see Páidís young fella is a chip off the old block.
Busted some lad just after the throw-in and got the line in the Munster schools final yesterday. :o
Only difference is Páidí didn't get the line..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0h3QQIBH6Y
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 06, 2011, 04:52:37 PM
I'm going to disagree with you there, Paidi. This isn't going to be a popular view, but rural depopulation and increased urbanisation is a sign of a developed country.
South America is far more urbanised than Europe. Are you saying that South America is more developed than Europe?
Likewise a lot of African countries have greater rates of urbanisation than a lot of European countries.
On what grounds is your comment based?
Quote from: Jinxy on March 07, 2011, 10:15:44 AM
I see Páidís young fella is a chip off the old block.
Busted some lad just after the throw-in and got the line in the Munster schools final yesterday. :o
Broke his jaw and concussed him, tahge Kennelly style within 10 seconds of throw in. The animal kingdom indeed.
no condoning this whoever the player, thankfully the player is not as seriously injured as first thought at the game, hopefully will make a full recovery..
I'd still rather be a Kerry Animal than a Cork langer however.
Quote from: blanketattack on March 07, 2011, 10:50:54 AM
South America is far more urbanised than Europe. Are you saying that South America is more developed than Europe?
Likewise a lot of African countries have greater rates of urbanisation than a lot of European countries.
I have to ask you for a citation there.
Quote
On what grounds is your comment based?
It's a known fact that the industrial revolution was all about a mass migration from country to town because of mechanised agriculture (fewer farm labourers needed) and new large scale manufacturing in towns (more factory workers needed). What England went through all those years ago is now happening in Brazil, China and India. But if you want a more specific reference:
"In the richer countries of the West, cities have survived the tumultuous end of the industrial age and are now wealthier, healthier, and more alluring than ever. In the world's poorer places, cities are expanding enormously because urban density provides the clearest path from poverty to prosperity."
Glaeser, Edward. Triumph of the City. P1. Penguin Press, 2011.
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on March 07, 2011, 01:43:22 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 07, 2011, 10:15:44 AM
I see Páidís young fella is a chip off the old block.
Busted some lad just after the throw-in and got the line in the Munster schools final yesterday. :o
Broke his jaw and concussed him, tahge Kennelly style within 10 seconds of throw in. The animal kingdom indeed.
http://munster.gaa.ie/video/
It not nice to see the young lad having a fit on the ground.
urbanization is the solution in countries where People are seen as an issue to be dealt with .not as the true owners of the country
do you really think the like os Lagos pop 7-15million or dhaka 7- 12 million would be good industrialized places to live? or does a nice bungalow a few miles outside the town near a good school with no blacks or tinkers not sound like a better bet?
Ask the people who are flocking to Lagos and Dhaka.
Your racism is noted.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on March 07, 2011, 02:06:43 PM
no condoning this whoever the player, thankfully the player is not as seriously injured as first thought at the game, hopefully will make a full recovery..
I'd still rather be a Kerry Animal than a Cork langer however.
No doubt he was listening to his cousin Dara on how you'll never get sent off in the first few minutes no matter what you do?
Time for kerry to clean up their act, discipline is shocking with the seniors and this gets passed down to the younger lads.
monkey see monkey do ;)
QuoteTime for kerry to clean up their act, discipline is shocking with the seniors and this gets passed down to the younger lads.
coming from a county where grabbing fellows by the throat, head butting lads in hurling, sly digs and verbals in every game etc is the norm and goes unpunished and who have bent every rule in the book to get players off, a manager who is famous only for grabbing a kerry legend by his nuts, going on strike to get their way, yeah sure you think anyone is going to be lectured by someone from Cork. You would need some scrubbing to clean up that Black Kettle and Pot that you normally keep in the Trophy cabinet !
Quote from: rosnarun on March 08, 2011, 12:35:37 AM
urbanization is the solution in countries where People are seen as an issue to be dealt with .not as the true owners of the country
do you really think the like os Lagos pop 7-15million or dhaka 7- 12 million would be good industrialized places to live? or does a nice bungalow a few miles outside the town near a good school with no blacks or tinkers not sound like a better bet?
A tad racist their!! Although the conditions in Lagos horrify us westerners im sure it beats starving to death in the countryside.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2011, 12:54:02 AM
Ask the people who are flocking to Lagos and Dhaka.
Distress migration, Eamonn, is not driven by dreams. People don't go to Dhaka or Delhi to live in a slum with no running water because they fancy the lifestyle. They go because there is no other option. The world's population is twice what it was in 1960.
They go to Dhaka or Delhi because the cities offer more opportunities than the rural areas they came from. Yes there is poverty in the city just as there is in the country. But there are ways out of urban poverty, not so for rural poverty. Hence, the cities are more attractive.
The post before seemed to imply that the choice was between an urban slum and a pretty rural bungalow with a nice driveway; that's not the choice people have in the developing world.
Quote from: rosnarun on March 08, 2011, 12:35:37 AM
nice bungalow a few miles outside the town near a good school with no tinkers
Obviously Mayo is out so :D
Quote from: Rossfan on March 08, 2011, 06:23:29 PM
Quote from: rosnarun on March 08, 2011, 12:35:37 AM
nice bungalow a few miles outside the town near a good school with no tinkers
Obviously Mayo is out so :D
Roscommon will be out of the Championship before us ;)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 07, 2011, 10:07:53 PM
Quote from: blanketattack on March 07, 2011, 10:50:54 AM
South America is far more urbanised than Europe. Are you saying that South America is more developed than Europe?
Likewise a lot of African countries have greater rates of urbanisation than a lot of European countries.
I have to ask you for a citation there.
Quote
On what grounds is your comment based?
It's a known fact that the industrial revolution was all about a mass migration from country to town because of mechanised agriculture (fewer farm labourers needed) and new large scale manufacturing in towns (more factory workers needed). What England went through all those years ago is now happening in Brazil, China and India. But if you want a more specific reference:
"In the richer countries of the West, cities have survived the tumultuous end of the industrial age and are now wealthier, healthier, and more alluring than ever. In the world's poorer places, cities are expanding enormously because urban density provides the clearest path from poverty to prosperity."
Glaeser, Edward. Triumph of the City. P1. Penguin Press, 2011.
http://www.pobronson.com/factbook/pages/254.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_urb-people-urbanization
Thus South America is more urbanised than Europe and African countries such as Libya are more urbanised than European countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Italy.
Are you saying that South America is more developed than Europe and Libya is more developed than Denmark?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 08, 2011, 06:18:49 PM
They go to Dhaka or Delhi because the cities offer more opportunities than the rural areas they came from. Yes there is poverty in the city just as there is in the country. But there are ways out of urban poverty, not so for rural poverty. Hence, the cities are more attractive.
In developing countries, most people in the rural areas view the 'big smoke' as a kind of Shangri-La where they'll do well. They think they'll be able to send money back to help support their family and improve their families lives in the village. When they reach the 'big-smoke' though it quickly becomes apparent that they've landed in a harsh ultra-competitive urban jungle, where they often have to struggle mightily just to survive amidst millions of others who find themselves in a similar situation. If they're lucky they end up getting jobs such as hawking bits and bobs in hot smokey traffic jams for 20 hours a day etc and are generally exploited to the extreme for little pay. In some countries, the young people who flock to the cities can't turn around and go back home to their village, as they'll be seen as failures and a disgrace to their family. The sad irony of it all is that the villages lose their young men to what's effectively an urban pipe dream, when the most beneficial thing might have been for them to remain in the village itself to do the 'farming' ie manual work which the old people struggle do, such as manually tilling the ground and planting \ harvesting the crops which will ultimately feed the village for the winter. Of course the village age profile rises over time also, as the younger people move away to the cities, thus threatening its sustainability too. It's quite a vicious circle which is difficult to reverse. For every one migrant who succeeds in the city, there are many more who become mired in grinding urban poverty. They would have been better off staying in their rural community or village, where they'd have been valued useful members of that community, helping it to sustain and perhaps moderately improve itself. Not every far away hill is green for the world's poor.
Quote from: Kerry Mike on March 08, 2011, 11:33:49 AM
QuoteTime for kerry to clean up their act, discipline is shocking with the seniors and this gets passed down to the younger lads.
coming from a county where grabbing fellows by the throat, head butting lads in hurling, sly digs and verbals in every game etc is the norm and goes unpunished and who have bent every rule in the book to get players off, a manager who is famous only for grabbing a kerry legend by his nuts, going on strike to get their way, yeah sure you think anyone is going to be lectured by someone from Cork. You would need some scrubbing to clean up that Black Kettle and Pot that you normally keep in the Trophy cabinet !
Paul "the ripper"'s gouging shocked so many people in the GAA it caused them to include a new category of offense, and who is the first player to be banned under this? Another kerry man for headbutting.
Youre completely deluded if you dont think you have a disipline problem and dont try and deflect the issue by going 30 yrs into the past. Already 2 kerry players suspended this year and only 3 games old, and the ripper hasn't even played yet. Another summer coming of deluded kerrymen ranting about the CCCC and conspiracy theories of jim corr proportions.
Have another go at that one.
Not the first time C&S has made a complete fool of himself/herself, lets see the details and facts behind this new catagory of offences???
Quote from: Kerry Mike on March 11, 2011, 11:13:10 AM
Not the first time C&S has made a complete fool of himself/herself, lets see the details and facts behind this new catagory of offences???
The issue is kerrys displine problems and denial of same. And there was talk of having a new category for gouging offenses, but it was thought that the existing bans were enough. I thought that some ammendment was made but i was wrong. :-\
And youre scarcely in any position to condemn other posters with the nonsense you spew.
Quote from: Chris agus Snoop on March 11, 2011, 09:37:52 AM
Quote from: Kerry Mike on March 08, 2011, 11:33:49 AM
QuoteTime for kerry to clean up their act, discipline is shocking with the seniors and this gets passed down to the younger lads.
coming from a county where grabbing fellows by the throat, head butting lads in hurling, sly digs and verbals in every game etc is the norm and goes unpunished and who have bent every rule in the book to get players off, a manager who is famous only for grabbing a kerry legend by his nuts, going on strike to get their way, yeah sure you think anyone is going to be lectured by someone from Cork. You would need some scrubbing to clean up that Black Kettle and Pot that you normally keep in the Trophy cabinet !
Paul "the ripper"'s gouging shocked so many people in the GAA it caused them to include a new category of offense, and who is the first player to be banned under this? Another kerry man for headbutting.
Youre completely deluded if you dont think you have a disipline problem and dont try and deflect the issue by going 30 yrs into the past. Already 2 kerry players suspended this year and only 3 games old, and the ripper hasn't even played yet. Another summer coming of deluded kerrymen ranting about the CCCC and conspiracy theories of jim corr proportions.
Good man Chris usual silly nonsense
I don't think Paidi was thinking in global terms when he composed that article. Empirical evidence may indeed suggest that rural depopulation and increased urbanisation is a sign of a developed country but material development isn't necessarily an improvement and, imo, there is considerable merit in what Paidi has to say.
He was thinking specifically of rural Ireland and the demise of the small country clubs.
What studies elsewhere may suggest is all very well but the problems those rural communities and, by extension, the GAA are facing are very real and have to be confronted.
A GAA club premises doubles up as a social centre in many small communities; much like the blacksmith's forge used to do in past generations.
Clubs are now facing not only the drift of members to urban areas and to the nearest airport but the bank manager is becoming increasingly less friendly and accommodating.
Clubs over-invested in the Celtic Tiger years and are now facing the consequences. Higher costs and a lesser fundraising options are an unwelcome combination at any time.
The club, like the rural pub, served as a focus or at least a meeting point for the local population and I'm afraid that as material conditions improve people tend to become increasingly reserved and their social interaction decreases. Loneliness in the midst of plenty is commonplace.
I've really no idea what can be done to ease the threats to survival where such small clubs are in question but things can't continue as they are for much longer. For better or worse, the face of rural Ireland is undergoing rapid and far-reaching change.
Paidi thinks of the fate of the GAA in such areas and the loss of community spirit when those regions lose their most active and energetic young people. Certainly, larger urban clubs are doing quite—if evidence of material resources is the yardstick.
But the community ethos that underpinned the Association since its foundation is no longer there. The GAA will survive and prosper, as Paidi suggests, but it will be much changed in nature from what it was in his day and mine also.
There are a number of large clubs in Dublin that I know quite well.
When Peter Quinn, amongst others, undertook a major review of GAA structures in the Association some years ago, a few stark reminders that there was going to be trouble ahead emerged.
I'm somewhat fuzzy on the details but I recall it being stated that there were at that time five clubs in Dublin that each had more juveniles in action over the weekend than would be found in a total of five named counties!
Yet each of those superclubs fields one senior side only.
The drop out rate is appalling.
I could add that the percentage of the local community that is involved with small rural clubs is much higher than is the case where large urban ones are concerned. Big clubs may have more members and more resources but they draw from a much larger catchment area and face increased competition for the so-called hearts and minds of those they seek too attract.
Paidi is more than just a pretty face!
There is much to ponder over in what he writes.
Páidí isn't around anymore and some clubs mightn't have long to live either. One in Derry, this weekend met to see if they were going to give it another go before folding. It's a real threat.
Counting the cost of survival
Emigration has left many clubs without enough adult players, writes Damian Lawlor
While emigration has brought a new lease of life to the GAA in foreign lands, losing players has had a devastating effect on rural communities at home
Damian Lawlor– 12 January 2014
TWO years ago Valentia GAA club submitted a motion to Kerry Congress which looked more like a plea for help than anything else.
The motion was simple in its wording, but its sheer candour caught the eye. It proposed that: 'The county board help small rural clubs to survive in these challenging economic times'. Survival. It's that stark out there.
"Existing is the only thing we're concentrating on now," says Valentia chairman John O'Sullivan. "There is talk of things picking up in Ireland -- well they are not picking up down here."
Kerry County Board chairman Patrick O'Sullivan sees little sign of things changing any time soon in the county.
"Out of all the counties on the western seaboard, Mayo and ourselves are the worst hit," he says. "We don't even have that much opportunity to go to Cork to find work because they've been hit too. Unless the IDA and Government come down and help us to stimulate some job creation, we will leak young people like there is no tomorrow.
"We are already trying to keep some of our county players at home; we're looking for a teaching job for one player and trying to find something for one or two more. But if the jobs don't come, we'll lose a generation and we needn't be thinking of winning an All-Ireland for ten years."
For any Kerry man or woman that's a bitter analysis to digest at the start of a new year.
John O'Sullivan feels the issues of unemployment, rural depopulation and emigration could potentially create more havoc than simply affect the Kingdom's chances of winning trophies. He has been banging a drum for the plight of clubs for years.
He's not looking for sympathy and points out that the people of Valentia are very resilient. They are being sorely tested, though -- in 2005 they won the South Kerry championship with a panel of 25, but last year they only had 14 adult footballers on their books. At under 14, 16 and minor level they join forces with Skellig Rangers but they want to hang on to their own identity at adult level for as long as possible.
With this in mind they submitted a proposal looking for 13-a-side games to be brought into effect two years ago, but the motion got nowhere.
Just before Christmas, however, another Kerry club, Tuosist, submitted the same motion and Valentia supported it. This time around the Kerry board indicated they may facilitate teams in Division 5 of their football league exploring the 13-a-side option.
Last year Tuosist were relegated to Division 5 after pulling out of Division 4 with three rounds left. Like Valentia, they know they are in for a struggle over the next couple of years.
"The relevant clubs will have to meet, see what they have at hand, and through communication with us and the teams they play against they could have the option of playing 13-a-side," confirmed Patrick O'Sullivan.
Further talks will be held in the coming weeks between the relevant parties but once again Kerry, who have done more than most counties to try and cope with ever-declining numbers, have led the way. With clubs all over Ireland struggling to field teams, it's only a matter of time before the concept of 13-a-side football becomes a hot topic.
"It's a huge step," Valentia's O'Sullivan says. "It may be only two players but to us that's massive. We feel this could be the start of something. The aim would be to get the 13-a-side motion in front of GAA Congress in the near future to help clubs like us. Maybe even next year.
"We have 17 players and we're just waiting to see if we lose one or two to the US this summer. It's tight enough but at least we have an option after years of fretting. Just let us compete and there will be no surrender from us."
The club chairman, however, also makes the point that the new black card ruling has inflicted further pressure on them.
"We were the first club around these parts to be really hit by numbers and we have been scraping teams together and barely getting by. Now there's the black card to contend with. Don't get me wrong, it's a good rule and it will stop cynical play, but what do we do? How are we going to go to north Kerry to play a game and cope if we don't have a panel of 16 or 17? You must have a panel and that's where we're caught."
At least the Kerry board can see that exploring the 13-a-side option for struggling clubs is a meaningful way of extending an arm of support. Clubs in Meath were less fortunate last week.
Despite a huge population influx over the last 15 years, there are still some clubs in Meath struggling to stitch adult teams together. Last week, at the county board's reconvened convention, one club submitted a motion to allow teams in the bottom division to seek permission to play 13-a-side league games when there is a difficulty fielding. The club was removed from the league last year after twice failing to field a team and so fell foul of the county's two strikes and you're out rule. Had the 13-a-side option been available the club says it would have fulfilled its fixtures in 2013. However, the proposal was shot down.
Some of the figures which have emerged from counties paint a pretty stark picture. Roscommon have lost 105 players in the last 18 months while almost 900 GAA players have left Clare and Limerick since 2008.
Fermanagh, with just 22 clubs, have serially managed to punch above their weight in Gaelic football, especially over the past decade, but they have seen 74 players transfer to clubs outside of the county in the past two years.
Tipperary, another county with big numbers to draw from, is also hit badly. A recent survey by the board revealed that 639 players from 72 clubs had left the county since July 2008 with only 40 per cent continuing to play abroad.
The hardest hit was the Cappawhite club in west Tipperary which lost 36 players with none returning.
In counties like Tipperary, especially in scenic areas like the Glen of Aherlow, planning permission processes are extremely complicated and have not helped stem the mass exodus of young players. Thus they are forced to move into towns, meaning that the GAA, a rural-based organisation, must now reassess the path forward at ground level.
This will surely mean bringing 13-a-side games into effect across the country over the next three to four years.
Relaxing the parish rule is another option. This rule demands that a player owes allegiance and loyalty to his home club and county. However, the problem with the 'principle of the parish' is that it is not in force across the board, which is a glaring weakness. Furthermore, where a club refuses to allow someone living in their parish to play with another club it can now be brought before the county board for adjudication.
As rural depopulation continues to grip the country, the rule needs to be looked at again. There's no problem with a player switching from a rural club to play for an urban club where he has a better chance of getting a job, or house, but there is absolutely no flow in the opposite direction. Flexibility is needed in some shape or form.
Perhaps here the GAA should immediately look to the Ladies Gaelic Football Association which has a novel solution to this problem. The LGFA also operates, strictly, the parish rule but there is also a rule which allows a player to play for another club if her own club cannot field in a particular year. Her original club retains her registration, so she essentially goes on loan to the other club until such time as her own club can field. This applies in all ages up to adult football and should be seriously considered by the GAA.
Amalgamation will continue to be a way of life, meanwhile, though many club leaders -- and top Croke Park officials themselves -- are wary of going down that road. John O'Sullivan says that it will be a last resort for Valentia.
"We will strive to keep our identity for as long as we possibly can. It's what defines us. It's what makes this ongoing struggle worthwhile."
GAA president Liam O'Neill has already warned clubs to be careful when they join forces. O'Neill, who established a rural communities group chaired by former GAA president Joe McDonagh, says he would like to see clubs hang on in there as long as possible and drive forward when the economic downturn ends.
"I'd counsel on amalgamations. I'd prefer to see it done from a position of relative strength rather than two clubs coming together because they both feel they're weak. The danger there is that the new club might be weak too," he said.
"I'd like to see clubs work their way through the current tough situation as best they can. Being there for the local community is very important at a time like this."
There's another issue that needs to be urgently looked at. For a large chunk of the summer, hundreds of club players are denied meaningful game time because inter-county managers and county boards suspend championship games for weeks at a time or, in Donegal's case, until the county team is out of the race for Sam Maguire. This has to stop.
There are 2,250 clubs affiliated to the GAA, and the least each of them deserves is to hang on to their own identity. In many cases, however, that is just not feasible anymore.
Club in derry as you said, which is Ogra Colmcille had their AGM and wilk continue to field at intermedate level this year.
is there any list of clubs that have folded in the last few years . may be we could have a GAA club RIP thread
in Mayo there have been a few Mergers at differen levels esp u21 but i havent heard of any folding completley
Aprt from Keenagh who got too good and were Cannabalised by Crossmolina
In reality most counties have too many clubs. Here in Down we have 48 clubs but imo the GAA population can only support about 40. Areas like east Down, mournes and west Down around Banbridge are struggling for numbers at adult and especially juvenile teams. Even the county board at the recent convention suggested playing underage games down to 9 a side. Perhaps people need to swallow their pride and seriously think about amalgamation. Down through the years clubs have folded or amalgamated but true GAA people have adapted for the good of the game, hopefully this will continue
What obligation is there, if any on the GAA to ensure that a club survives and desn't fold ? Would the GAA at county / national level for example come in and financially support a club that is struggling financially and at risk of folding due to lack of funds and/ or players ?
Paidi RIP was spot on in this article. Spatial awareness or future planning never came into it with our politicians over the last 10/15 years. We drew down BMW funds from Europe to sustain our rural regions, but all was invested in the urban sprawl around Dublin. No development of the regions, no growth in the other cities while Dublin continues to struggle with traffic, waste disposal, ghost estates and water shortages. While the LUAS now serves shiny new stations that nobody uses, post offices, garda stations and pubs close throughout the countryside! And to compound the problem they have now changed the electoral boundaries to ensure more politicians in the urban and less in the rural areas. And the onslaught continues: close the bogs, cover the country in pylons and, oh yeah! - drain the Shannon and divert it to Dublin because all its waterpipes are leaking! You couldn't make this up, only in Ireland!!
Quote from: Bojangles on January 15, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Paidi RIP was spot on in this article. Spatial awareness or future planning never came into it with our politicians over the last 10/15 years. We drew down BMW funds from Europe to sustain our rural regions, but all was invested in the urban sprawl around Dublin. No development of the regions, no growth in the other cities while Dublin continues to struggle with traffic, waste disposal, ghost estates and water shortages. While the LUAS now serves shiny new stations that nobody uses, post offices, garda stations and pubs close throughout the countryside! And to compound the problem they have now changed the electoral boundaries to ensure more politicians in the urban and less in the rural areas. And the onslaught continues: close the bogs, cover the country in pylons and, oh yeah! - drain the Shannon and divert it to Dublin because all its waterpipes are leaking! You couldn't make this up, only in Ireland!!
Have you ever been to Dublin?
Green Line, Wicklow stops - at least three with no infrastructure at all around them. Check it out yourself sometime Jinxy.
Quote from: Bojangles on January 15, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Paidi RIP was spot on in this article. Spatial awareness or future planning never came into it with our politicians over the last 10/15 years. We drew down BMW funds from Europe to sustain our rural regions, but all was invested in the urban sprawl around Dublin. No development of the regions, no growth in the other cities while Dublin continues to struggle with traffic, waste disposal, ghost estates and water shortages. While the LUAS now serves shiny new stations that nobody uses, post offices, garda stations and pubs close throughout the countryside! And to compound the problem they have now changed the electoral boundaries to ensure more politicians in the urban and less in the rural areas. And the onslaught continues: close the bogs, cover the country in pylons and, oh yeah! - drain the Shannon and divert it to Dublin because all its waterpipes are leaking! You couldn't make this up, only in Ireland!!
What! they are giving the areas with a bigger population more representation!
Was there not a policy of de-centralising Government bodies to more regional towns in the south, possibly 10 plus years ago and it died a death as no one wanted to move out from Dublin to these new office buildings?
Quote from: johnneycool on January 17, 2014, 11:34:07 AM
Was there not a policy of de-centralising Government bodies to more regional towns in the south, possibly 10 plus years ago and it died a death as no one wanted to move out from Dublin to these new office buildings?
That was a McCreevy back of an envelope plan announced on a Budget Day because he had nothing else to say to grab headlines.
Then it became a case of send some Office, Dept, Body to any town where there's a FF TD. Of course if land could be bought from some FF supporting owner at a big price all the better. ( FÁS to Birr e.g - Director of FAS was a Biffo....)
Meanwhile a few years later Longford, Mullingar and Cavan? Barracks were closed. Proper planning would have seen various Offices re located to those buildings when the Army were moved out. But that would mean no land sales, no new buildings......
Mind you some folks from these parts were able to transfer back to Carrick on Shannon and Ros town.