Big crowd expected next Saturday night for the visit of our neighbours.
Our boys will need to eradicate some of the basic errors evident in the last two games if they want to come away with two points.....some of our passing yesterday was piss poor..high balls into Conor Lavery?? :-\
We are stumbling along and picking up points without Benny firing on all cylinders yet.
Hope he kicks into gear on Saturday.
The exact same could be said of Armagh so it should be interesting. Our handling skills have been very poor and we showed some dreadful naivety kicking high ball into our FF line repeatedly yesterday.
A game that could be won from the sidelines (unfortunately for us), McCartan seems very tactically astute and will no doubt have our line chasing their tails. The amount of basic errors in Armagh's game yesterday was criminal - good to hear Down were something similar - if we repeat that there'll only be one outcome.
As for the Armagh team - I wouldn't waste McKeever on a man-marking job, I'd really like him to stay at CHB no matter what and hold the centre, if i remember rightly F Mo marked Clarke before and did a decent job? Mal Mackin did more than enough to deserve another start after yesterday's performance, but I reckon he'll be the fall guy for Saturday night's team. If Lavery is fit enough he will start and we'll move Vernon to WHF, toss of coin between BJP and Brian Mallon I'd imagine, it'll come down to whether POR reckons we have enough brawn in there and could do with some brains. I would start either ahead of Grugan but I'd say Grugan will get the nod - he does good things but is currently half of what an inter-county whf needs to be. I've no doubt he'll develop into something really good thou.
Team I'd like to see start:
McEvoy
Mallon Donaghy Moriarty
Duffy McKeever Dyas
Lavery(if fit) Toner
BJP MOR Vernon
Mallon Swift McDonnel
i see the irish news is bigging up Dyas from yesterday, how good was he?
Quote from: Banana Man on February 21, 2011, 01:14:10 PM
i see the irish news is bigging up Dyas from yesterday, how good was he?
He was v good, not brilliant (nobody was) but v good. He seems to be growing into the team and it is noticeable at times that the backs are trying to get him into space so that he delivers the pass into the forward line. Last year was a wipeout for him with his injury but now that he is injury free (fingers crossed) he is starting to come good.
For me Grugan has to start, a lot of people not convinced by him but IMO he was the only HF yesterday constantly making runs; 5-10 mins to go and he was still out in front and was acting as a good link man from HBs and MF which was what we were crying out for.
CV is too good in terms of workrate, drive etc to leave out of the team so if Lavery is fit, start him MF and have CV in HF line and drop BJP as the game will be played at a much higher tempo - Brian Mallon had a good night last time v Down in the McK cup and should start ahead of him.
What will the Down defence be like? Last time out it was pretty experimental, have the injuries cleared up?
our defence is recovering but not at full strength yet. Dee Rafferty and Dan McCartan are both out, Rooney & Garvey made their first appearances at the weekend. It will certainly be a much stronger defence than Armagh faced in the McKenna cup. But it doesn't matter. Both teams are of similar standard just now (for one reason or another). It will be a tight game. Armagh will be much tighter marked than against Monaghan, so it will depend on how well their players link together rather than one player making great runs, as I don't see that happening.
Big Dan was very impressive yesterday...at one stage he was unmarked inside their 21 after he had caught a great ball inside his own 14 and kept running in support....if Marty Clarke had have been on the ball he could have been put through for a goal...
Anyone else notice there was very few Galway fans in attendance.....there was only a polite ripple of applause everytime they scored ....even when they got their goal ...
Asked on the General but might as well say here too, any bars in Liverpool that would show this match lads?
If it's on Setanta it'll be on in O'Neills
Quote from: Don Johnson on February 21, 2011, 05:29:15 PM
Asked on the General but might as well say here too, any bars in Liverpool that would show this match lads?
Missing it myself as well. Some genius decided to fix the Ulster Scór semi-final for Saturday night in Silverbridge at 7pm. The two major GAA occasions of the weekend in the locality and they are both at the same time. Ridiculous. ::)
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 21, 2011, 04:25:22 PM
our defence is recovering but not at full strength yet. Dee Rafferty and Dan McCartan are both out, Rooney & Garvey made their first appearances at the weekend. It will certainly be a much stronger defence than Armagh faced in the McKenna cup. But it doesn't matter. Both teams are of similar standard just now (for one reason or another). It will be a tight game. Armagh will be much tighter marked than against Monaghan, so it will depend on how well their players link together rather than one player making great runs, as I don't see that happening.
I doubt that very much. Monaghan have much more natural markers than down. Down have better footballers in their defence.
I would have thought we need Grugan for the longer frees. Stevie can't get them off the ground.
That's a kick in the stones Tacadoir. Surely these events shouldn't be clashing.
Bloody saturday nights - looks like i won't make it. Gutted.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on February 21, 2011, 02:22:47 PM
For me Grugan has to start, a lot of people not convinced by him but IMO he was the only HF yesterday constantly making runs; 5-10 mins to go and he was still out in front and was acting as a good link man from HBs and MF which was what we were crying out for.
CV is too good in terms of workrate, drive etc to leave out of the team so if Lavery is fit, start him MF and have CV in HF line and drop BJP as the game will be played at a much higher tempo - Brian Mallon had a good night last time v Down in the McK cup and should start ahead of him.
Would agree Grugan has to start with 1 eye on Ulster championship QF. Games like this will bring him on. He has scores in him and for too long our HF line has not provided enough.
Mallon should start also but in the corner and stay there. Swift was isolated too much yesterday. If Stevie comes out for the ball, better to have 2 men inside.
Is King back for Down? Fitzpatrick seems to have done well but with both Rodgers and King missing would Down be short of physicality in the middle?
Hope the Armagh management don't decide to launch high balls in on top of Swift again as I'd imagine that would be right up Dan Gordon's street. I'd isay that the Down defence will surround Stevie like they did last year (a tactic that was helped enormously by the fact that we went down to 14). It's up to us to figure a way round this.
Quote from: Orangemac on February 21, 2011, 10:19:07 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on February 21, 2011, 02:22:47 PM
For me Grugan has to start, a lot of people not convinced by him but IMO he was the only HF yesterday constantly making runs; 5-10 mins to go and he was still out in front and was acting as a good link man from HBs and MF which was what we were crying out for.
CV is too good in terms of workrate, drive etc to leave out of the team so if Lavery is fit, start him MF and have CV in HF line and drop BJP as the game will be played at a much higher tempo - Brian Mallon had a good night last time v Down in the McK cup and should start ahead of him.
Would agree Grugan has to start with 1 eye on Ulster championship QF. Games like this will bring him on. He has scores in him and for too long our HF line has not provided enough.
Mallon should start also but in the corner and stay there. Swift was isolated too much yesterday. If Stevie comes out for the ball, better to have 2 men inside.
Is King back for Down? Fitzpatrick seems to have done well but with both Rodgers and King missing would Down be short of physicality in the middle?
Do a bit of googling there - or read other threads - King has played both league games to date for down
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2011, 10:47:43 AM
Hope the Armagh management don't decide to launch high balls in on top of Swift again as I'd imagine that would be right up Dan Gordon's street. I'd isay that the Down defence will surround Stevie like they did last year (a tactic that was helped enormously by the fact that we went down to 14). It's up to us to figure a way round this.
Couldnt hold him in the League Final, he murdered Down that day.
Quote from: snoopdog on February 22, 2011, 11:35:53 AM
Quote from: mackers on February 22, 2011, 10:47:43 AM
Hope the Armagh management don't decide to launch high balls in on top of Swift again as I'd imagine that would be right up Dan Gordon's street. I'd isay that the Down defence will surround Stevie like they did last year (a tactic that was helped enormously by the fact that we went down to 14). It's up to us to figure a way round this.
Couldnt hold him in the League Final, he murdered Down that day.
True..........as I said going down to 14 men in Pairc Esler made it that bit easier for Down. We just couldn't handle going down to 14, the exact same happened in Casement Park in the championship. Hopefully we have practised a bit for that scenerio since. I see Pat McEneaney is reffing it on Saturday so the standard of refereeing SHOULD be better than our old friend Sludden served up on those occasions..............
Grugan was superb against us in the McKenna cup. Very mobile and accurate, can't believe people are even suggesting he should not play. As for Stevie, well he is a class act and any team would struggle against him. But our defence is hard working and will allow very little space. I think the strong points on both sides are their forwards - Coulter, Clarke, Hughes, McComiskey, McDonnell, Grugan, Vernon, Swift. All these players are top quality. There may be a load of chest beating and boasting on this forum over the rest of the week but the fact is that these two sides are of a very close standard and the game will not be easy for either one.
I personally think that if u hold stevie ( thats a mighty big if ) then u beat armagh. That may change in may when there is a couple of clarkes back but if down double mark him and leave the likes of BJP or mackin to shoot all day they will have more than enough to win.
Armagh ones may say the same about benny but i think there is more threat there from hughes, clarke, mccumisky and even murtagh. Benny has been contributing this year but we dont rely on him for scores as much as we once did.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 22, 2011, 01:32:46 PM
I personally think that if u hold stevie ( thats a mighty big if ) then u beat armagh. That may change in may when there is a couple of clarkes back but if down double mark him and leave the likes of BJP or mackin to shoot all day they will have more than enough to win.
Armagh ones may say the same about benny but i think there is more threat there from hughes, clarke, mccumisky and even murtagh. Benny has been contributing this year but we dont rely on him for scores as much as we once did.
If Down do manage to hold Stevie Armagh will learn alot about Grugan, Swift, Vernon etc. which may help down the line.
The stand in Newry is all ticket for this game lads so you'd need to get on to your club if you don't want to be standing out in the cold.
Anyone know of any bars in Edinburgh that might show the match?
WhiteGoodman, Just as well we're not relying on Benny's scores cos he hasn't got a single point so far in the league. But we certainly are relying on his skill, he has set up half our points with his catching and running. Stevie, I don't think, offers that to Armagh. So hopefully if our defence just moves fast it will be able to close down the Armagh attack and force shooting from the half forward line. Like the Armagh man says they will then learn a lot about Vernon and Grugan.
Our_fella - If it is on anywhere it will be Biddy Mulligans in the Grassmarket. I guarantee you will see Gaelic there just don't know which match they'll have on.
Quote from: 5 Sams on February 22, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
The stand in Newry is all ticket for this game lads so you'd need to get on to your club if you don't want to be standing out in the cold.
do season tickets enable you to get into the stand for this match?
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 22, 2011, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on February 22, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
The stand in Newry is all ticket for this game lads so you'd need to get on to your club if you don't want to be standing out in the cold.
do season tickets enable you to get into the stand for this match?
If you are a season ticket holder I think you will get an e mail with a link to a site where you can print your ticket off. Season ticket alone won't get you in....you'll need the print off as well as the season ticket.
Quote from: SHEEDY on February 22, 2011, 05:43:54 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on February 22, 2011, 03:20:32 PM
The stand in Newry is all ticket for this game lads so you'd need to get on to your club if you don't want to be standing out in the cold.
do season tickets enable you to get into the stand for this match?
The stand is now extended and there is another new stand in fron t of the fitness centre so should be more seats. I'm told by my club it is £11 for the terrace. How much for the stand and how many will the clubs get?
How's BJP doing since he moved up to ye??
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 22, 2011, 05:22:28 PM
WhiteGoodman, Just as well we're not relying on Benny's scores cos he hasn't got a single point so far in the league. But we certainly are relying on his skill, he has set up half our points with his catching and running. Stevie, I don't think, offers that to Armagh. So hopefully if our defence just moves fast it will be able to close down the Armagh attack and force shooting from the half forward line. Like the Armagh man says they will then learn a lot about Vernon and Grugan.
Our_fella - If it is on anywhere it will be Biddy Mulligans in the Grassmarket. I guarantee you will see Gaelic there just don't know which match they'll have on.
If Down are going to attempt to close down the Armagh attack it will have been too late. Some of McDonnell's point taking has been exquisite. Against Monaghan a ball got played out wide at a narrow angle, no sooner had I cursed the f**kers for playing the wrong ball McDonnell had stuck it between the posts. Grugan IMO has been the main link man, constantly shows for the ball coming out of defence and can play the accurate passes inside. If Down stop him they will starve much of the good ball going in, as our distribution coming from the the half back line and defence in general has been poor of late.
I'm hoping for a high scoring game, both defences are not at their strongest so hopefully we see plenty of scores.
Quote from: macdanger2 on February 22, 2011, 07:53:05 PM
How's BJP doing since he moved up to ye??
I think he's done rightly, some people aren't convinced but I think he's a good option to have. Hasn't really put a foot wrong though hasn't set the world on fire either.
The County board emailed club secretaries (most of whom have full-time jobs of course) at 3 16pm today requesting that clubs provide the exact number of stand tickets needed by their club by 5pm TOMORROW. The date of this match has been known for months. The standard of organisation is absolutely disgraceful. The insatiable demands placed on club officials are simply unfair.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 22, 2011, 10:26:25 PM
The County board emailed club secretaries (most of whom have full-time jobs of course) at 3 16pm today requesting that clubs provide the exact number of stand tickets needed by their club by 5pm TOMORROW. The date of this match has been known for months. The standard of organisation is absolutely disgraceful. The insatiable demands placed on club officials are simply unfair.
We have been set a deadline of 2pm. Why could the clubs not have been informed of this last week? Just puts so much pressure on club officials.
Quote from: our_fella on February 22, 2011, 03:43:14 PM
Anyone know of any bars in Edinburgh that might show the match?
i used to Live in Edinburgh and i spent many a sunday afternoon in Ryans Pub at the end of Princes Street below the castle.
Good pints and great Grub.
Isnt the egg chasing on in Edinburgh this weekend though?
Just ask the lad behind the bar to stick it on to Setanta.
Lets be honest here, on saturday night you have one changing room with a management team who have their team playing to a structured game plan, they have possibly the best football trainer in the country, one of the most knowledgable men in the province and a very astute manager. In the other changing room you have a weight lifter and two men who are extremely limited tactically and a manager whose heart cant possibly be in winning no matter what any Armagh man thinks.
There wont be any shocks, it will simply be a straight forward win for Down by maybe 5/6 points depending on how much Armagh open out towards the end when their chasing the game against a well organised counter attacking down team. Its difficult to know where Down are right now but last weeks game will have helped Garvey and Rooney and brought a bit more stability to a defence who played very well last year, I do feel that after a win this saturday if we can take 3 or 4 points from our next 6 we could be looking at the top 2.. Ambitious but we were the 2nd best team in ireland last year!
Quote from: redandblackareback on February 23, 2011, 11:05:42 PM
Lets be honest here, on saturday night you have one changing room with a management team who have their team playing to a structured game plan, they have possibly the best football trainer in the country, one of the most knowledgable men in the province and a very astute manager. In the other changing room you have a weight lifter and two men who are extremely limited tactically and a manager whose heart cant possibly be in winning no matter what any Armagh man thinks.
There wont be any shocks, it will simply be a straight forward win for Down by maybe 5/6 points depending on how much Armagh open out towards the end when their chasing the game against a well organised counter attacking down team. Its difficult to know where Down are right now but last weeks game will have helped Garvey and Rooney and brought a bit more stability to a defence who played very well last year, I do feel that after a win this saturday if we can take 3 or 4 points from our next 6 we could be looking at the top 2.. Ambitious but we were the 2nd best team in ireland last year!
A bit over-confident, no?
QuoteAmbitious but we were the 2nd best team
I think you mean the second best team in Division 2.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 23, 2011, 11:38:07 PM
QuoteAmbitious but we were the 2nd best team
I think you mean the second best team in Division 2.
Very good, very good.. No not over confident lads just realistic really of where the 2 teams are right now. Think its going to take Armagh another couple of years to bring through some of those successful minors but unfortunately for you guys Paddy is not the answer for Armagh football. It was a very poor appointment from the county board and a very poor decision by Paddy to take it, tactically he is inept and there is no one in his management team with a footballing brain sorry but true.
, on saturday night you have one changing room with a management team who have their team playing to a structured game plan, they have possibly the best football trainer in the country, one of the most knowledgable men in the province and a very astute manager. In the other changing room you have a weight lifter and two men who are extremely limited tactically and a manager whose heart cant possibly be in winning no matter what any Armagh man thinks. [/quote]
have to admit ur not far wrong with ur opinion on r management, player wise there is very little between the teams. youse have better forwards (at the minute), we have better defenders midfield is even enough. Just shows with down nearly winning ai last year what we could do if we had a decent backroom team. Still think our players will be motivated enough t make it a very close game that could go either way.
Quote from: redandblackareback on February 23, 2011, 11:05:42 PM
Lets be honest here, on saturday night you have one changing room with a management team who have their team playing to a structured game plan, they have possibly the best football trainer in the country, one of the most knowledgable men in the province and a very astute manager. In the other changing room you have a weight lifter and two men who are extremely limited tactically and a manager whose heart cant possibly be in winning no matter what any Armagh man thinks.
There wont be any shocks, it will simply be a straight forward win for Down by maybe 5/6 points depending on how much Armagh open out towards the end when their chasing the game against a well organised counter attacking down team. Its difficult to know where Down are right now but last weeks game will have helped Garvey and Rooney and brought a bit more stability to a defence who played very well last year, I do feel that after a win this saturday if we can take 3 or 4 points from our next 6 we could be looking at the top 2.. Ambitious but we were the 2nd best team in ireland last year!
Don't disagree with too much of that - bar the over estimation of Tally & McIvor - unfortunately. I do believe, however, that armagh posess better players and on any given day, gameplan & organization can be over ridden by pure performance (down beating tyrone in the marshes). Sadly, we are lumbered with this management for the forseeable future and i think the the players are good enough to produce a decent championship run - which will mean another year with them.
Anyway - Armagh by 3!
Armagh have better players, but 2 or 3 of them are going to be playing in Navan rather than the Marshes at the weekend, so it will be tight for us.
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
However the standard is at least close and I think the game will be tight. We are helped by Armagh's bad management. I heard a long time ago that Paddy was only ever appointed as a night-watchman. Armagh saw a lot of young talent coming through (evidence a 2009 All Ireland Minor win), the old Armagh team had faded, and McGeeny was still a raw coach. The theory I heard was Paddy was appointed to lead during the fallow years, to do little more than tread water until the new talent was ready and McGeeny had matured as a coach. Then McGeeny takes over as manager of a young talented side. Very importantly when the time is right, the sacking of a former Down player to install the Armagh All-Ireland winning captain would not cause any protests.
I heard this around the time of Paddy's appointment and it all still seems plausible to me.
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, BrendanMcVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
So what you're saying is Armagh don't have a chance...With them players you guys are certs for the all ireland no other team should turn up
What part of - "However the standard is at least close and I think the game will be tight. " can you not understand?
At least read before you try to put words into my mouth which are clearly in complete contradiction of the words I actually wrote.
So once again because you obviously have a problem reading:
So what you're saying is Armagh don't have a chance - NO I AM SAYING THE STANDARD IS CLOSE AND I THINK THE GAME WILL BE TIGHT
Well what part of that paragraph you wrote can u not understand...all your all stars and the players that didn't get them that should have. I'm not putting words into your mouth, you wrote it not me, I'm just pointing out from your words that what chance have we or any other team against your ALL STARS
If the aristocrat All-Ireland finalists cannot beat an understrength relegation candidate team like Armagh at home, it would be a real shock. We are only going along to get a chance to do a bit of shopping in Newry, and amaze at the greatness of Down, winners of the 2008 Dr McKenna cup and many other achievements.
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Not that it matters but just so you're aware - there are way more all stars & nominations in the armagh squad than the down one.
Off the top of my head, andy mallon 1 all star and multiple nominations, ciaran mckeever multiple nominations, Hearty multiple nominations, ak ypoty and multiple nominations, brian mallon multiple nominations, stevie poty countless nominations and (3?) awards, r clarke ypoty, countless nominations and 2 all stars.
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Dan Gordan has been playing full back, Not in same league as brendy donaghy in this position, Benny Coulter, Hughes and Clarke (Who i think is a bit overated) yes would def get onto most teams in the country, McVeigh is of similar ability to Hearty, Kevin McKernan is excellant going forward and would make it onto our half backline Although his defensive capabilities are suspect when playing from 5-7 (Remember he was dropped for a period for down last year mainly because of this) Garvey and Rooney are not better than what we have at our disposal in the backline.
Just my opinion and this hasnt been tainted by a major Down dislikening like many in my county have as i reserve this for our red hand neighbours!!! ;)
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 24, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Dan Gordan has been playing full back, Not in same league as brendy donaghy in this position, Benny Coulter, Hughes and Clarke (Who i think is a bit overated) yes would def get onto most teams in the country, McVeigh is of similar ability to Hearty, Kevin McKernan is excellant going forward and would make it onto our half backline Although his defensive capabilities are suspect when playing from 5-7 (Remember he was dropped for a period for down last year mainly because of this) Garvey and Rooney are not better than what we have at our disposal in the backline.
Just my opinion and this hasnt been tainted by a major Down dislikening like many in my county have as i reserve this for our red hand neighbours!!! ;)
Dont disagree with you on Donaghy, a class act, if we had him last year we would have won the all ireland no doubt about it. Think your way of the mark with the Clarke overrated statement if you watch closely everything goes through him, everything down do welll he s involved. Hearty for me is a pudding no offence and last year was mc veighs best year in a Down shirt. As regards Garvey, he is an excellant man marking and proved this last year on route to the final. Saturday will be tough for Armagh but right now I personally believe we have one of the best forward lines in Ireland, a big statement but statistics dont lie, 3 of the 6 all stars last year.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 24, 2011, 11:08:55 AM
If the aristocrat All-Ireland finalists cannot beat an understrength relegation candidate team like Armagh at home, it would be a real shock. We are only going along to get a chance to do a bit of shopping in Newry, and amaze at the greatness of Down, winners of the 2008 Dr McKenna cup and many other achievements.
Lol. Yes, lets not lower this debate by talking about football. Shopping is my favourite pastime too.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2011, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Not that it matters but just so you're aware - there are way more all stars & nominations in the armagh squad than the down one.
Off the top of my head, andy mallon 1 all star and multiple nominations, ciaran mckeever multiple nominations, Hearty multiple nominations, ak ypoty and multiple nominations, brian mallon multiple nominations, stevie poty countless nominations and (3?) awards, r clarke ypoty, countless nominations and 2 all stars.
Its good to see this threat is getting a bit more lively.
Hearty or Brian Mallon havent shown all star nomination form since jesus was a wee lad!!!
From the Armagh team that is likely to start on Saturday night id take Andy Mallon, Donaghy, McKeever and Stevie. Yas can keep the rest along with Paddy!
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 24, 2011, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2011, 11:13:08 AM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Not that it matters but just so you're aware - there are way more all stars & nominations in the armagh squad than the down one.
Off the top of my head, andy mallon 1 all star and multiple nominations, ciaran mckeever multiple nominations, Hearty multiple nominations, ak ypoty and multiple nominations, brian mallon multiple nominations, stevie poty countless nominations and (3?) awards, r clarke ypoty, countless nominations and 2 all stars.
Its good to see this threat is getting a bit more lively.
Hearty or Brian Mallon havent shown all star nomination form since jesus was a wee lad!!!
From the Armagh team that is likely to start on Saturday night id take Andy Mallon, Donaghy, McKeever and Stevie. Yas can keep the rest along with Paddy!
All Stars are a load of crap and this we have more All Stars than you is childish rubbish. Your AllStars are a reflection on an excellent run in the championship last year and nothing more. Up to that point Down hadn't even an All Star nomination in their team (and it didn't do ye any harm last year).
For the record the only Down players I would take is Danny Hughes, Martin Clarke and Benny Coulter. Down can keep the rest......... :P
Combined 15 (with everyone fit):
McVeigh
Mallon
Donaghy
Rafferty
Dyas
McKeever
Garvey
Toner
Rogers
Hughes
Clarke
Coulter
Clarke
Clarke
McDonnell
[/quote]
All Stars are a load of crap and this we have more All Stars than you is childish rubbish. Your AllStars are a reflection on an excellent run in the championship last year and nothing more. Up to that point Down hadn't even an All Star nomination in their team (and it didn't do ye any harm last year).
For the record the only Down players I would take is Danny Hughes, Martin Clarke and Benny Coulter. Down can keep the rest......... :P
[/quote]
If those 3 play well at all on Saturday night it ll be a 7/8 point comfortable victory. End of story ;)
QuoteIf those 3 play well at all on Saturday night it ll be a 7/8 point comfortable victory. End of story
What silverware do you base that on?
QuoteQuote from: redandblackareback on February 24, 2011, 02:01:21 PM
All Stars are a load of crap and this we have more All Stars than you is childish rubbish. Your AllStars are a reflection on an excellent run in the championship last year and nothing more. Up to that point Down hadn't even an All Star nomination in their team (and it didn't do ye any harm last year).
For the record the only Down players I would take is Danny Hughes, Martin Clarke and Benny Coulter. Down can keep the rest......... :P
If those 3 play well at all on Saturday night it ll be a 7/8 point comfortable victory. End of story ;)
Good to see aristocratic confidence for what will be your lot's second biggest game of the year :P
I'm hoping/expecting memories of last year to influence Armagh's attitude going into this game. Ciaran McKeever will be well fired up, presumably he will pick up Clarke, and with a point to prove will spur on his team mates. They'll need to be top of their games to cope with Down's firepower up front. If McKeever can stop Clarke's influence then IMO favour will swing towards Armagh, with McDonnell and Nippy in good form I would expect a 1-2 point victory.
I'll spin this combined teams thing another way.
The only Armagh players who would significantly improve the Down team are Donaghy and McKeever.
This isn't to say I don't rate the rest of Armagh's players - Stevie McD is one of the best players I've seen, Mallon and Toner are quality, Jamie Clarke looks a great prospect - but more to do with the fact that Down wouldn't become more freescoring with the addition of any Armagh forwards. Maybe a point or two here or there, that's all... i.e. no significant improvement.
In return, any three of M Clarke, Poland, Hughes, Coulter and Maginn would dramatically improve Armagh's half-forward line, Rogers is the best midfielder out of all on show, and McKernan would add a welcome dash of class to their team.
If we're still talking fantasy improvements to our forward line, let's see - How about swapping John Clarke for Stevie Mac? Yeah maybe just about go for that by a hair's breadth. ;)
But Seriously - If we could have Donaghy, then that just releases Gordon to Midfield where he is easily better than anything Armagh have. Still think he should play there for us.
Quote from: thewobbler on February 24, 2011, 02:20:12 PM
I'll spin this combined teams thing another way.
The only Armagh players who would significantly improve the Down team are Donaghy and McKeever.
This isn't to say I don't rate the rest of Armagh's players - Stevie McD is one of the best players I've seen, Mallon and Toner are quality, Jamie Clarke looks a great prospect - but more to do with the fact that Down wouldn't become more freescoring with the addition of any Armagh forwards. Maybe a point or two here or there, that's all... i.e. no significant improvement.
In return, any three of M Clarke, Poland, Hughes, Coulter and Maginn would dramatically improve Armagh's half-forward line, Rogers is the best midfielder out of all on show, and McKernan would add a welcome dash of class to their team.
And the only players who would significantly improve Armagh are Coulter & Clarke - and to a lesser extent Hughes.
The other half forwards you name - including McKernan who would not be entertained as a defender in armagh - are no better / not as good as what we have.
We could actually ship you a load of defenders from beyond our panel who would start for down. McKernan and Gordan are laughably bad defenders and McCartan & Rooney are very average - all four protected by the system.
anyone know of any bars in derry city to catch the match on sat night.
Intresting debate going on here! Imo both teams are equal in terms of squad quality, a think posters are mistakeing bothg teams achilles heel's for bad players! Honestly at the moment down would have the pick of the players (Clarke and Coulter would walk onto any county setup) but armagh always have that resilience to grind out results when they need to. Hopefully it will set the stage for the real contest come the summer.
Armagh to steal it at the death ;)
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 24, 2011, 03:28:04 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 24, 2011, 02:20:12 PM
I'll spin this combined teams thing another way.
The only Armagh players who would significantly improve the Down team are Donaghy and McKeever.
This isn't to say I don't rate the rest of Armagh's players - Stevie McD is one of the best players I've seen, Mallon and Toner are quality, Jamie Clarke looks a great prospect - but more to do with the fact that Down wouldn't become more freescoring with the addition of any Armagh forwards. Maybe a point or two here or there, that's all... i.e. no significant improvement.
In return, any three of M Clarke, Poland, Hughes, Coulter and Maginn would dramatically improve Armagh's half-forward line, Rogers is the best midfielder out of all on show, and McKernan would add a welcome dash of class to their team.
And the only players who would significantly improve Armagh are Coulter & Clarke - and to a lesser extent Hughes.
The other half forwards you name - including McKernan who would not be entertained as a defender in armagh - are no better / not as good as what we have.
We could actually ship you a load of defenders from beyond our panel who would start for down. McKernan and Gordan are laughably bad defenders and McCartan & Rooney are very average - all four protected by the system.
Can I ask what you base that opinion on? I wonder would Kieran Donaghy or Declan O'Sullivan agree with you.
Quote from: bridgegael on February 24, 2011, 04:02:48 PM
anyone know of any bars in derry city to catch the match on sat night.
I don't think you'll have any trouble finding a bar in the city centre showing the game....but if you want a deadly pint of stout to go along with it head to Tinney's just off the Strand Road
is it just me or does any one else think down could give armagh a real pasting on saturday night, having seen armagh to date i cant for the life of me work out the tactical contrbution of the managers on the sideline
our only hope for the championship is to get the two clarkes motoring, find a playmaker for centre half forward a mobile partner for toner and a corner back to assist mallon and donaghy otherwise we could get stuffed then as well
oh ye of little faith!! A can assume that por knows what he's playing at on the sideline and that all the preperation are for the sole purpose of when down travel to armagh in may (giving grugan experiance now). I agree that toner needs a solid midfield partner to shift the responsibilty in the fielding department (possibly the younger duffy from the ogs) Armagh are the underdogs for this match, a tag which they have carried on numerous occasions and would suit them down to the ground! Armagh aint done yet!
On a dry hard pitch where our forwards could use their speed AND IF we were playing to the standard of last summer, then giving Armagh's current form, you would expect Armagh to be torn apart. But it isn't summer, the pitch doesn't suit our game and like Armagh, we are nowhere near on form.
This will be a game of two teams struggling for form. I expect to see many mistakes, many poor decisions in the passing, Quite a few slips (mostly from Down players), and the in bursts, sporadic wonderful glimpses of brilliance. I expect this from both teams because both teams have quality forwards who have talent regardless of form but due to lack of form will not be able to do it for a full 70 minutes.
Down are probably not playing as well as Dublin at this stage, and Armagh gave Dublin a good game, so I reckon we are in there rightly.
Quote from: 5 Sams on February 24, 2011, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: bridgegael on February 24, 2011, 04:02:48 PM
anyone know of any bars in derry city to catch the match on sat night.
I don't think you'll have any trouble finding a bar in the city centre showing the game....but if you want a deadly pint of stout to go along with it head to Tinney's just off the Strand Road
The Gweedore / Peadar's is another decent option.
it's sad but the point about our management is spot on. Unfortunately.
We do have a squad every bit as talented as Down's though. It will be a tight match and might come down to who wants it more. If it comes down to simple desire in the last 5 minutes i'd like to think we'll snatch it.
Duffle i agreed with the combined team you made apart from a few things.
If u have the comfort of having Donaghy at Full Back Dan Gordon would get in ahead of Toner at midfield.
Dyas is completley unproven at senior level. He has potential but sure that is it. Id have Kernan, McKernan or Rooney in there.
Ur point on Gordon and McKernan being laughably bad defenders is laughable. Did u see Gordon on Kieran Donaghy or against Kildare or last wk for that matter. Alright he struggled in the all ireland final but he wasnt the first and wont be the last to do so against that cork full forward line.
U also say McKernan wouldnt be considered as a defender for Armagh. Is he not the same type of defender as Aaron Kernan. R u trying to tell me he is a much better defender than him. They are both lovely footballers who are limited at defending. I would have Declan Rooney ahead of both of them and ur assumption that he is average shows how little u no about Down football.
Of course all things are relative and none of the players mentioned are bad players, but rather relatively poor defenders by county standards.
Gordon wouldn't get a game for down at midfield so i doubt he'd get in a combined team.
Kernan is not good enough defensively to be a top quality defender but he can do enough to get by. McKernan is way behind even that level defensively - but i happen to think he's more effective and dynamic than ak going forward. Rooney wasn't even in the down team at the start of the championship last year and he's very average. you boys really need to see past your lucky draws and tainted victories from last year.
Gordon is filling a hole at full back for down in the absence of alternatives - nothing more. we prefer our full backs to be able to tackle and stay with a forward when he turns.
I know more about down football than you obviously think.
Duffleking, comment is free but the facts are sacred. You claim that you know about Down football but you say that Declan Rooney could not make our side at the start of the championship. Even though he missed the entire league campaign through injury, he was actually brought straight back into our defence for our opening USC match, away to Donegal last May, and kept his place for all eight of our championship fixtures last summer, all the way through to the AI final. As a half-back, he scored two points from play on his seasonal debut in a tight game aganst Galway last Sunday. You may think that he is `very average' but those of us who have seen him regularly would hold a different opinion.
Down team For Armagh, Same exactly as for Galway:
1. Brendan McVeigh (An Ríocht)
2. Gerald McCartan (Boireann)
3. Dan Gordon (Loch an Oileáin)
4. Luke Howard (Áth Bhriain)
5. Aidan Branagan (Cill Chua)
6. Kevin McKernan (Boireann)
7. Declan Rooney (Boireann)
8. Peter Fitzpatrick (Baile Mhairtín)
9. Kalum King (Áth Bhriain)
10. Daniel Hughes (Sabhaill)
11. Mark Poland (Cloch Fhada)
12. Conor Maginn (Áth Bhriain)
13. Conor Laverty (Cill Chua)
14. Brendan Coulter (Droichead Mhaigh Éo)
15. Martin Clarke (An Ríocht)
16. Cathal Murdock (Boireann)
17. Conor Garvey (Droichead Mhaigh Éo)
18. Liam Doyle (Liatroim)
19. Paul McPolin (Cluain Daimh)
20. Ronan Murtagh (Baile Cholmáin)
21. John Clarke (An Ríocht)
22. James Colgan (An Ríocht)
23. Ronan Sexton (Droichead Mhaigh Éo)
24. Aidan Carr (Cluain Dáimh)
25. Mark Doran (Cloch Fhada)
26. Paul McComiskey (Dún Droma)
I'd be happy enough that five out of Armagh's six defenders will be able to do a job on their counterpart. A Mallon suits the fast nippy forwards so he can go on Conor Laverty and should do a good job, Donaghy has the pace and strength to deal with a "half fit" Coulter, Finn Mo will follow Clarke out the field which will suit Armagh, he fouls a lot so the further away from our goals he is the better and he did an excellent job on him in Croker, in addition he can attack fairly well.
I'd be confident enough of the Dyas and McKeever match ups but the one that would concern me is Hughes vs. Duffy. Danny Hughes is a great player and if he's given room to run at a defence will cause all sorts of problems. Paul Duffy is exactly the same, very effective going forward but his main job on Saturday evening should be to keep Hughes quiet and I'd have concerns that he will be able to do it.
Happy enough with that team apart from Id liked to have seen McCumisky or Murtagh instead of Lavery. Mallon didnt give him a kick of it when he came on in the league final and suits him down to the ground. Would have thought the other 2 would have given Mallon more trouble.
Good forward bench options if we are in a bit of trouble.
Interesting to see who will pick up stevie, likely gordon will go to swift, Gerrard McCartan has the height and speed but stevie would be far to cute for a guy in his infancy of county football so likely to be Luke Howard who himself is only coming back from a long term serious injury. I smell trouble if we dont double mark the killeavy c**t!!!
Quote from: redandblackareback on February 24, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 24, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Dan Gordan has been playing full back, Not in same league as brendy donaghy in this position, Benny Coulter, Hughes and Clarke (Who i think is a bit overated) yes would def get onto most teams in the country, McVeigh is of similar ability to Hearty, Kevin McKernan is excellant going forward and would make it onto our half backline Although his defensive capabilities are suspect when playing from 5-7 (Remember he was dropped for a period for down last year mainly because of this) Garvey and Rooney are not better than what we have at our disposal in the backline.
Just my opinion and this hasnt been tainted by a major Down dislikening like many in my county have as i reserve this for our red hand neighbours!!! ;)
Dont disagree with you on Donaghy, a class act, if we had him last year we would have won the all ireland no doubt about it. Think your way of the mark with the Clarke overrated statement if you watch closely everything goes through him, everything down do welll he s involved. Hearty for me is a pudding no offence and last year was mc veighs best year in a Down shirt. As regards Garvey, he is an excellant man marking and proved this last year on route to the final. Saturday will be tough for Armagh but right now I personally believe we have one of the best forward lines in Ireland, a big statement but statistics dont lie, 3 of the 6 all stars last year.
I saw Martin Clarke many times at underage level and have to say he was the best underage player i have seen, However i feel his time at aussie rules has put him back as a player rather than forward. At underage he was all about blistering pace, taking players on and carrying the ball, this was as well as having a fantastic left peg. Now he is a different player, instead prefaring to play the "Quarter back" role at number 11. I think this is for two reasons 1. He has bulked up to much in oz and hasnt the same pace as he previously had, 2. in oz rules he was not able to carry the ball because of the tackle. I just think his time there has taken the edge and (good) rawness from his game. While still a great player i just feel the media over emphasise his role in every game he plays because of who he is. IMO opinion he would come behind coulter, hughes Rodgers and possibly dan Gordan at midfield as your best player.
Also while Hearty has had some v dodgy moments in the past (As all Goalkeepers do) last year he had a fine season.
Clarke has played one season inter county football and was instrumental in his team reaching the AI final, you only have to hear his fellow players speak about how important he was to the teams success last season. He's not the complete player but who has said he is, as for comparing the Martin Clarke of underage football and now is complete nonesense, he's playing against the very best players in Ireland not underage or college football where his size, strength and speed made it easier for him to glide past opposition players but as you reach the highest level of the game players struggle to do this and have to adjust there game in order to succeed as Martin Clarke has done.
Impossible to call the winner tomorrow night at this stage but there'll probably be only a point or two in it either way at the end.
was really confident of a down win earlier in the week but after seeing the down team, im now less confident. imo down have better players sitting on the bench than on the field. would have loved to have seen mutagh and john clarke back on the teamsheet. feel they would have brought much needed power and strength up front. feel aiden carr has also done enough to earn a start. down have played the 2 worst teams in div1 and struggled at times against both. bigger challenges lie ahead,starting on sat night. i hope im proved wrong and the team delivers and gets 1 over the "aoul enemy".
I am disappointed Garvey wasn't selected, he looked fit enough when he came on for Howard. I had hoped he would mark Stevie. I think Garvey is an excellent marker and would be a good man for the job.
There is no doubt Down have a team good enough to beat Armagh, and we haven't been able to say that for about ten years. But also Armagh are good enough on talent alone to beat Down. It will come down to the performance on the night. If one team clicks then they will certainly win. If both teams play their best then Down will win because Armagh are missing R.Clarke and the Cross boys.
Armagh Team:
1. Philip Mc Evoy Dromintee
2. Andy Mallon Pearse Og
3. Brendan Donaghy Clonmore
4. Finnian Moriarty Wolfe Tones
5. Kevin Dyas Dromintee
6. Ciaran Mc Keever St. Patrick's
7. Paul Duffy Pearse Og
8. Kieran Toner Granemore
9. Charlie Vernon Armagh Harps
10 Rory Grugan Ballymacnab
11 Micheal O'Rourke Dromintee
12. Malachy Mackin St. Patrick's
13. Billy Joe Padden Carrickcruppin
14. Gareth Swift Armagh Harps
15. Steven McDonnell Killeavy
16. John Mc Cullagh Carrickcruppin
17. Gavin McParland Ballymacnab
18. Colm Watters Cullaville
19. Conor Clarke Pearse Og
20. John Murtagh Crossmaglen
21. Brian Mallon Tir na nOg
22. Gareth O'Neill Dromintee
23. Declan McKenna Armagh Harps
24. James Lavery Maghery
Quote from: angermanagement on February 25, 2011, 02:11:14 PM
Clarke has played one season inter county football and was instrumental in his team reaching the AI final, you only have to hear his fellow players speak about how important he was to the teams success last season. He's not the complete player but who has said he is, as for comparing the Martin Clarke of underage football and now is complete nonesense, he's playing against the very best players in Ireland not underage or college football where his size, strength and speed made it easier for him to glide past opposition players but as you reach the highest level of the game players struggle to do this and have to adjust there game in order to succeed as Martin Clarke has done.
Impossible to call the winner tomorrow night at this stage but there'll probably be only a point or two in it either way at the end.
Yeah maybe im being a bit hard on the man considering it was his first full year at intercounty level , i as a lover of the game would just like to see a bit more outve him thats all (Though obviously not against the orchard) he showed glimpses of real class last year but i think his overall influence was slightly exaggerated by the media. When your saying comparing the underage Martin Clarke to now as nonsense i have to disagree. While obviously he is not going to dominate matches like he did at underage i was making the point that he doesnt seem to have the same pace or willingness to carry the ball that marked him out as a great talent before he went to oz. For example Sean Cavanagh was always a brilliant carrier of the ball at underage and then carried that onto his best years at senior level. Thats just one example i can think of off the top of my head. Do you think his time in australia has made him a better Gaelic Footballer?
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 25, 2011, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: redandblackareback on February 24, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 24, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Dan Gordan has been playing full back, Not in same league as brendy donaghy in this position, Benny Coulter, Hughes and Clarke (Who i think is a bit overated) yes would def get onto most teams in the country, McVeigh is of similar ability to Hearty, Kevin McKernan is excellant going forward and would make it onto our half backline Although his defensive capabilities are suspect when playing from 5-7 (Remember he was dropped for a period for down last year mainly because of this) Garvey and Rooney are not better than what we have at our disposal in the backline.
Just my opinion and this hasnt been tainted by a major Down dislikening like many in my county have as i reserve this for our red hand neighbours!!! ;)
Dont disagree with you on Donaghy, a class act, if we had him last year we would have won the all ireland no doubt about it. Think your way of the mark with the Clarke overrated statement if you watch closely everything goes through him, everything down do welll he s involved. Hearty for me is a pudding no offence and last year was mc veighs best year in a Down shirt. As regards Garvey, he is an excellant man marking and proved this last year on route to the final. Saturday will be tough for Armagh but right now I personally believe we have one of the best forward lines in Ireland, a big statement but statistics dont lie, 3 of the 6 all stars last year.
I saw Martin Clarke many times at underage level and have to say he was the best underage player i have seen, However i feel his time at aussie rules has put him back as a player rather than forward. At underage he was all about blistering pace, taking players on and carrying the ball, this was as well as having a fantastic left peg. Now he is a different player, instead prefaring to play the "Quarter back" role at number 11. I think this is for two reasons 1. He has bulked up to much in oz and hasnt the same pace as he previously had, 2. in oz rules he was not able to carry the ball because of the tackle. I just think his time there has taken the edge and (good) rawness from his game. While still a great player i just feel the media over emphasise his role in every game he plays because of who he is. IMO opinion he would come behind coulter, hughes Rodgers and possibly dan Gordan at midfield as your best player.
Also while Hearty has had some v dodgy moments in the past (As all Goalkeepers do) last year he had a fine season.
Have to say any time I have watched Clarke which has probably only been in about 10-12 games I have found him to be a massive talent who looked a cut above most others on the pitch. For me he was easily the best player on the pitch v Armagh in the McKenna cup and I thought the only reason Armagh were able to win that game was because he went off with 10 to go.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 25, 2011, 06:02:46 PM
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 25, 2011, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: redandblackareback on February 24, 2011, 12:41:22 PM
Quote from: orchard 8195 on February 24, 2011, 12:24:39 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 09:39:21 AM
I can't see how anyone thinks Armagh has better players - Hello 4 All Stars? and another 3 All star nominations, and McKernan was clearly robbed of one. Who are all these Armagh players that are better than Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter, Marty Clarke, Danny Hughes, Brendan McVeigh, Kevin McKernan, Conor Garvey, Decky Rooney?
Dan Gordan has been playing full back, Not in same league as brendy donaghy in this position, Benny Coulter, Hughes and Clarke (Who i think is a bit overated) yes would def get onto most teams in the country, McVeigh is of similar ability to Hearty, Kevin McKernan is excellant going forward and would make it onto our half backline Although his defensive capabilities are suspect when playing from 5-7 (Remember he was dropped for a period for down last year mainly because of this) Garvey and Rooney are not better than what we have at our disposal in the backline.
Just my opinion and this hasnt been tainted by a major Down dislikening like many in my county have as i reserve this for our red hand neighbours!!! ;)
Dont disagree with you on Donaghy, a class act, if we had him last year we would have won the all ireland no doubt about it. Think your way of the mark with the Clarke overrated statement if you watch closely everything goes through him, everything down do welll he s involved. Hearty for me is a pudding no offence and last year was mc veighs best year in a Down shirt. As regards Garvey, he is an excellant man marking and proved this last year on route to the final. Saturday will be tough for Armagh but right now I personally believe we have one of the best forward lines in Ireland, a big statement but statistics dont lie, 3 of the 6 all stars last year.
I saw Martin Clarke many times at underage level and have to say he was the best underage player i have seen, However i feel his time at aussie rules has put him back as a player rather than forward. At underage he was all about blistering pace, taking players on and carrying the ball, this was as well as having a fantastic left peg. Now he is a different player, instead prefaring to play the "Quarter back" role at number 11. I think this is for two reasons 1. He has bulked up to much in oz and hasnt the same pace as he previously had, 2. in oz rules he was not able to carry the ball because of the tackle. I just think his time there has taken the edge and (good) rawness from his game. While still a great player i just feel the media over emphasise his role in every game he plays because of who he is. IMO opinion he would come behind coulter, hughes Rodgers and possibly dan Gordan at midfield as your best player.
Also while Hearty has had some v dodgy moments in the past (As all Goalkeepers do) last year he had a fine season.
Have to say any time I have watched Clarke which has probably only been in about 10-12 games I have found him to be a massive talent who looked a cut above most others on the pitch. For me he was easily the best player on the pitch v Armagh in the McKenna cup and I thought the only reason Armagh were able to win that game was because he went off with 10 to go.
Was at the McKenna cup game and have to say if I was a down supporter I would have been frustrated with him as all night he was looking for a killer pass which didn't always work, he never took the easy option which would have been more sensible on numerous occasions. No doubt he is a massive talent but is it not right this year is his last for a while and he is heading back down un der next year?
This is more like the debate we needed coming into this very important game for both sides. Not sure about the Down selection myself but in James we trust.
E = MC squared
Genius = MC
That will be the difference
I know I really should nt rise to some of the rubbish posts this week but any one who doubts M Clarkes ability obviously has nt watched him to often and don't forget only one year of senior football under his belt . To the match tomorrow night it's looking tight but hope we ll sneak it by a point or two , think Armagh have the upper hand at the back 6 and opposite for us !
Absolutely ridiculous debate on Marty Clarke. He oozes class and if you can't see that i'd suggest a visit to the opticians. Wish we had him in our team.
Hopefully we don't start slowly and if we can keep it tight all the way through we can get a result.
Come on Macha's men !!
C'MON YOU MOURNE MEN!!!
One glance at each bench will tell you who holds the upper hand in terms of squad. Over half the Armagh bench in their first season and the quality of many is very questionable. J Murtagh, G O'Neill, C. Clarke, C Watters G McParland all yet to prove they are of county standard.
Quote from: you take er! on February 26, 2011, 05:46:25 PM
One glance at each bench will tell you who holds the upper hand in terms of squad. Over half the Armagh bench in their first season and the quality of many is very questionable. J Murtagh, G O'Neill, C. Clarke, C Watters G McParland all yet to prove they are of county standard.
That would be my worry, Down have an abundance in talent in comparison. Would be delighted with a draw.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 25, 2011, 06:27:04 PM
E = MC squared
Genius = MC
So genius is the square root of energy?
Scoreline hides a very poor performance from Armagh.....A Mallon way past his best, don't know how he wasnt switched, no ball winners in half forward line, no gameplan evident, at times Down looked like they had extra men all over the pitch.
Apart from that all ok ;)
whats up with mallon hes had some serious roastings lately
Satisfying victory but we made it hard,
Must have had 5 serious goal chances versus Armagh's 1 while I would guess our wide total was twice theirs.However, it's hard to beat a point victory in the derby and at times this was championship pitch. Brendy's injury looked bad - possibly knee ligaments- our man close to the action felt it was a double foul on him. Howard's a great man for this sort of game, the dual between Stevie and Dan was worth the entry fee- Stevie was out in front every time but Dan's blocks and reading of the game is special. How Swift stayed on the fiield for his elbow in the Dan's face in the second half is a mystery, Hats off to Gerard Mc Cartan who has a great football brain to compensate for a light build and his burst up the field in the last 10 showed he had plenty in the tank. Mc Kernan was super- class is permanent- and his point before half-time was critical as Down were way better in the first half. Rooney was good, Brannigan average. I thought Kalum had his best game to date although yet again Colgan brought plenty to the party and his high-field at the end finished Armagh- are you there Bennydorano ?
Pete was VG then too lackidasical and after a fantastic move I don't know how he missed the goal. Danny our skipper put in an unbelievable shift although a point in the 68th minute would have calmed our nerves to make it 4 ahead. Poly was super and came off too soon. Maginn did serious work a, a lot of it off the ball, and he's maturing perfectly.Murtagh was quiet for 60 but sparkled in the last 10, Lavery was much better than previous games against Armagh and Marty was Marty. Mc Keever is hateful but effective but Marty was yet again in the middle of all that was good for Down. An education to watch him. All the subs brought something to it- Murdoch made a great block and his kick-outs were good- I think he will be the keeper for the rest of the league. Garvey brought the cut we needed, Mc Comiskey not as effective as last week but is a class act and Sexton got tore in and was clever in possession. Colgan, as stated, doesn't put a foot wrong, seems fitter and must start in Cork- in place of Brannigan IMO.
Armagh are still a fair side- big, strong and dirty. The much talked about Grogan is still raw and they will clearly benefit from the Cross men. Marty was the difference.
I dont feel too dispondent after that for some reason. A game that could have gone any way a serious amount of misses on both sides.
A few positives, I thought we bossed MF from start to finish, Toner and Vernon had great games and look to be settling in as a formidable pairing, some top drawer defending (and some woeful defending). I was in the stand on Armagh's 50 for the first half and I have to say i've never seen Paul Duffy play a worse half of football, totally cleaned by Danny Hughes, to be fair to him he bucked up in the second half. I said last week that i thought Armagh's HB line was our weakest line, a bit of an improvement but still watery looking and porous at times.
Some poor decision making again form the line, I've read there posters giving off about not making changes quick enough, but I was of the opinion that there shouldn't have been any changes bar Lavery coming on - every other subsitution weakened us. It's a year (or 2) too early for Grugan - far too light. Would never have took Brian Mallon off, i thought he looked very dangerous. Stevie missed a few chances as well but gave Dan Gordon all sorts of headaches.
Very apparent that Down have so much more speed in their team, but they also seem sharper and more aware, Armagh were very laboured looking at times, no speed of thought.
Championship will be interesting, certainly both teams will hold no fear of the other. If we could get Jamie and Ronan Clarke in that forward line we'd be well fit for most teams, Still work to be done in the HB line and still a need for a CHF, thought MOR did very little this evening.
Marty Clarke was very good, thought McKeever on him did well too thou.
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 26, 2011, 10:43:47 PM
Satisfying victory but we made it hard,
Must have had 5 serious goal chances versus Armagh's 1 while I would guess our wide total was twice theirs.However, it's hard to beat a point victory in the derby and at times this was championship pitch. Brendy's injury looked bad - possibly knee ligaments- our man close to the action felt it was a double foul on him. Howard's a great man for this sort of game, the dual between Stevie and Dan was worth the entry fee- Stevie was out in front every time but Dan's blocks and reading of the game is special. How Swift stayed on the fiield for his elbow in the Dan's face in the second half is a mystery, Hats off to Gerard Mc Cartan who has a great football brain to compensate for a light build and his burst up the field in the last 10 showed he had plenty in the tank. Mc Kernan was super- class is permanent- and his point before half-time was critical as Down were way better in the first half. Rooney was good, Brannigan average. I thought Kalum had his best game to date although yet again Colgan brought plenty to the party and his high-field at the end finished Armagh- are you there Bennydorano ?
Pete was VG then too lackidasical and after a fantastic move I don't know how he missed the goal. Danny our skipper put in an unbelievable shift although a point in the 68th minute would have calmed our nerves to make it 4 ahead. Poly was super and came off too soon. Maginn did serious work a, a lot of it off the ball, and he's maturing perfectly.Murtagh was quiet for 60 but sparkled in the last 10, Lavery was much better than previous games against Armagh and Marty was Marty. Mc Keever is hateful but effective but Marty was yet again in the middle of all that was good for Down. An education to watch him. All the subs brought something to it- Murdoch made a great block and his kick-outs were good- I think he will be the keeper for the rest of the league. Garvey brought the cut we needed, Mc Comiskey not as effective as last week but is a class act and Sexton got tore in and was clever in possession. Colgan, as stated, doesn't put a foot wrong, seems fitter and must start in Cork- in place of Brannigan IMO.
Armagh are still a fair side- big, strong and dirty. The much talked about Grogan is still raw and they will clearly benefit from the Cross men. Marty was the difference.
The master of the 3 foot fist pass :P Down caught 2 balls in MF all night from my reckoning, unfortunately they were both in the last few minutes when we needed them.
Was the wide for armagh a point
Also thought blatant push for last kickout
Down better side but seriously Happy with armaghs potential for may
All we need to change is POR
The master of the 3 foot fist pass :P Down caught 2 balls in MF all night from my reckoning, unfortunately they were both in the last few minutes when we needed them.
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Will do me everytime ;).30 foot more like !Your analysis is fair enough although I think it was a close battle in MF, probably shaded by Armagh. If Pete had been on his game he could have had 2-3 as Toner ( I think) wasn't near him. Kalum doesn't play like Vernon but is very clever and economical although not flashy.Good hard game and two good teams.
We had a perfect view of the wide for Armagh and despite the presence of Mr Sluden in front of us I can assure you it was wide.
I was standing right under the tricolour, I thought it was over ???
Not overly dispondent after tonight, we are a long way off our championship team and a 1 point loss is nothing to be ashamed of considering Down had everyone playing except coulter. Our forwards tho were atrocious, totally dependant on stevey yet. Grugan was devoid of aggresion and mor could not make the ball stick. Billy Joe was v unfortunate to be taken off first as i think he was playing ok. Brian Mallon showed some good things in the first half but disappeared in 2nd. Think our midfield won the sector hands down with vernon in particular having an excellant game. Duff got the runaround from danny hughes, mckeever did well on clarke and dyas had a decent game (IMO his best yet). Down full forward line got the better of the 3 boys though finn mo had a good 2nd half. Mcevoy had a v good game though his kickouts are still v ropey. Our worst performance though was on the line. POR is CAT!! Yes he doesnt have a whole lot to bring on but he's the 1 that picked these men and should make changes quicker how grugan and mor (who had a great game at chf last week but i wasnt able to work out where he was meant to be playing tonight) got so long on the pitch is beyond me.
Anyone who was in the stand would have seen that it was NOT a point, it was close but wide.
Orchard Down were missing 3 starters from last years all ireland defence and ambrose rodgers so yes only coulter was missing!!!!
DD u thought murtagh was quiet for 60 mins, i thought he gave he was close to MOM, gave donaghy a torrid time, won every ball that went in to him. Apparantly Ross Carr gave him MOM on setanta. Agreed with u on gerrard mccartan and mckernan who were great although Rooney had a bit of trouble from Swift.
Armagh are a strong side and i give it to Mckeever, he is hateful as they come if ur not from armagh but he is a good a player and a leader. Unfortunately for us he IMO has the indian sign over marty. Fortunately up front they have absolutley no threat outside of stevie and swift. That will change with the 2 clarkes back and the athletic grounds in may is going to be tight as a ducks arse.
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
Mc kernann is no angel either,
Swift took a lot of abuse from his man
As I said I look forward to may because armagh if they can sort POR out will
Improve don't see down improving as much
Good team performance and important win tonight. Another win guarantees safety. A real method in our play and a purpose with each pass. Had Down taken half their chances the win would have been much easier.
Championship will be tougher. In the Athletic Grounds and with Jamie Clarke up front everything does not have to go through Stevie.
I though Pat had to retire ? He didn't give us much tonight but I would never criticise the man as he's still the best around. Maybe it's only the championship he has to retire from ? Anyone watching it on Setanta give us a bit of information on some of the big calls?Mc Veigh's injury and Pete hitting the post in particular ?Find it hard to believe Ross went for Rony Murtagh for MoM but ,like Pat, I respect his judgement so maybe he saw stuff I didn't see.
Reckon there was 10-12,00 there and must complement all concerned for the match arrangements - quality throughout the Down set-up these days.
some of the posts from the Down people are a little far fetched. Some of the boasting coming out of the ground was unbelievable too. That was a good game which Down probably on balance deserved, but catch yourselve on if you think that was an easy 1 point win. Armagh hit 5 wides in a row after going one up and then went on to miss a goal chance one on one. While ye were missing players some of those mentioned came off the bench. None of our "missing" players came off the bench. Waken up!
IMO Armagh easily won the battle of the Midfielders, though Down easily won 90% of breaking ball and fair pay to them for that. We don't have foragers in that area. While I am not a fan, Martin O'Rourke was great at that aspect of the game and is a loss for this ONLY.
Billy Joe Started well but unlike other posters I was glad to see him go off as his work rate dropped and passing faltered. Grugan does look like a real prospect but I agree that he is light and lacks a wee bit of confidence in the physical stakes (which is fair enough at 19/20 in the modern game). MOR looks a little out of his depth at times and I am a little concerned with the HF line generally. Never was I so glad to see Mal Mackin not start. He is a disaster. FULL STOP.
There are prospects and much to be happy with but unless Armagh are (like Down tonight and Tyrone have been) more considerate of their shot selection and passing out of defence (how many fist passes went astray?) anddevelop a means to win dirty ball then it is gong to be another disappointing championship. ARD MMHACHA GO DEO!!
It's early in the season, so the most important outcome from the Marshes was a win which will come very close to keeping us in division one. Five points, which we have on the board, has kept most team up over the last decade, six would be nearly there and seven makes it practically safe.
There's no sense in looking any further, as three of our last four games are away to Cork, Dublin and Kerry, where anything we get will be a bonus, and Monaghan in our only remaining home fixture is always a tough one.
Having said that, there are few sweeter scorelines for Down people than a one-point home win against Armagh in Newry. We should have had more to spare, we could easily have lost it, but these are good days for our boys and they might just get better.
Armagh were missing the Cross squad, but we started without Rafferty, Dan McCartan, Doyle, Garvey, Ambrose, McComiskey and Benny, and really should have been home and dry by the break. We put 3/4 into the keeper's arms, missed another 3/4 sitters, Laverty's shot beat the keeper but not the corner back and Marty missed two 45s. Armagh barely had a wide but were surviving on very limited possesion.
The third quarter was a different story, as they largely took over at midfield and we looked edgy and uncertain for a while, but we still managed to finish like a train and there was a huge contrast in the options available from the bench between the two sides.
McVeigh's kick-outs have been steadily improving, and his injury was a blow and seemed as though he had been fouled twice. Hopefully it was not ligaments. Still, Murdoch is also steady, hit decent kicks and made a fine and crucial save.
Howard gave nothing away, and may be getting back to his best, while Gerard McCartan was impressive again and made a couple of decisive runs late on. Dan was marking one of the best forwards in the game, and was unlikely to get in front of him, but won everything in the air, produced a fantastic block and almost pushed up to get an inspirational point. Hopefully, he will be our full back for years to come.
Brannigan had a decent first half, but, like last week, weakened later and should have been replaced sooner. Rooney was solid, and has the pace required, while McKernan, thankfully, was back to his best, and proved a crucial figure when the match was up for grabs.
Big Kalum was excellent in spells, even if he is a little short of fitness, and he might have been replaced a little early, while Fitzpatrick is an unusual footballer. He only took a couple of catches, and found himself chasing Vernon on a couple of occasions after losing concentration, but he gets up and down the field impressively and might have had two goals.
Maginn took a while to get going but was brilliant in the last quarter, and Poland is a classy player who is also invaluable for his frees. Hughes, as we know, is among the best forwards in Ireland, and, apart from a couple of misses, was again outstanding,
Laverty won almost every ball down his wing, and deserved the goal that was stopped on the line, but it will always be tough for someone of his size to play championship football. Murtagh could not get into the play for most of the game, and was only still there because we had use all five subs. In fairness, he was tremendous in the last ten, won everything which came his way and kicked two vital points.
Marty was in and out, up and down, but remains as good a footballer as we can hope to see. There is little point in going shoulder to shoulder with someone like McKeever, but just a little space produced everything we needed. Amazingly, he is still on an upward curve. He missed a couple of 45s, went for a goal instead of an easy point from an important free, but his quality is there for all to see.
Of the subs, Murdoch did well and has a fine clearance. Garvey was also solid, Sexton is always sound, and McComiskey really should start against Cork. The pick of them was Colgan, who was brilliant in the air and effective on the ground.
We are second in the table on merit, but there is a long way to go.
Despite not having been at the match and having only watched the first half on TV, I'll still make a few points;
A one point defeat to last year's All Ireland finalists away from home is far from a disgraceful result.
Down looked much the better side in the first half.
Many on this board are all happy to indulge in lazy personal sterotypes about amatuer footballers.
Down appear to be more natural confident and natural on the ball than us. I refuse to believe this is down to genetics.
Fundamentally our problems tonight appear to have lain in the same difficulty that has haunted us for the past 5 years - if Stevie doesn't do it who will?
There are numerous individuals within our own county who are at least "one point" a better manager than the current imcumbent
They have to come to the Cathedral City the next time.
We might well have Jamie Clarke and Ronan available at the Athletic Grounds.
Up the orchard!
From an Armagh point of view, thought that match was pretty much in line with the league so far. A few good things, plenty of shite. Down were probably a few points the better team, seeming to find scoring opportunities much easier. They work harder, have more pace and look better drilled.
Thought McEvoy did alright. McKeever did a decent job on Clarke. Dyas was reasonable. Midfield competed well, but there were longs spells when Down had the upperhand in the breaking ball stakes. McDonnell had a few moments. Swift contributed at times too but suffered from being shifted about.
But I also thought a lot of the defence struggled. Mallon and Duffy were poor. Donaghy was rounded a bit too easily for a couple of scores near the end. Moriarty wasn't very impressive either. Forward play was desperate too for the most part. Grugan and O'Rourke had stinkers, nothing stuck with either. Mallon had a decent opening half hour but literally did not touch the ball for the 25 minutes before he went off. Padden does some decent things but seems very limited, stamina seems to be an issue too. Just still too dependent on McDonnell.
Depressing to be moaning about the management as usual but changes were made disappointingly slowly again. The time to hook off Mallon, O'Rourke and Grugan was when we were a point up and pressing hard, not fifteen minutes later after Down had regained the momentum and the lead.
The Cross lads will obviously add something to us for the summer, but there are problems in the half forwards and on the line that they won't make much difference to.
Down were alot better than this time last year and was very impressed. On saying that if they are as good as some Down people think they should be beating an Armagh team with so many players missing and Stevie missing more than normal much handier than this. The defence has been criticised but to keep a potent forward line as good as Down's to 12 points with a non existent half forward line unable to help is no mean feat. I think the whole full back line got yellow cards as a result of being unable to cope with the speed of overlapping players - desperation rather than dirt for our Down posters. Again if Swift or Stevie didn't show for the ball no one did.
As for the point or wide for Armagh, I was in the stand and it was never a point.
I think Grugan will be a great player but he found Down's physical players to much tonight. Before the Dublin game I though the best course of action would be to introduce him gradually with cameo performances in the league. I haven't really changed my mind. MOR too seemed to struggle with the physical element and if Sludden had have been ref he would have got a fortune of frees. ;)
The one worrying thing for me was that Down seemed a lot sharper and faster both physically and mentally than Armagh. If this is due to inexperience or training I do not know - although I suspect one. Although POR will be criticised he has brought Armagh forward over the last year or so. He may not be the Messiah but he may be John the Baptist. ( A religious metaphor as it is a Sunday!)
Although Down posters will say they had players missing if I am not mistaken only Benny and Ambroise were not available for selection. Therefore those picked must currently be considered the best for now. Armagh through Cross and injuries had twelve missing. Although all would not start their presence would improve the bench also.
For the Down supporter who thought Pat gave them nothing I thought he gave Armagh nothing so he must have been fair enough. :)
As for those who said Armagh were dirty go catch yourself on there was no difference for either team. Down were just better at it. As for Swift, I did not seem him elbow anyone but given the off the ball abuse he got on a number of occasions anyone might lose their temper and to start calling him petty names is very childish.
I thought as a team this was one of the worst Armagh performances I'd seen over the last number of years. There were some good individual performances however that saved the result from being a disaster. The performance as a team was shocking. Very little creativity and no real game plan. Coming out with the ball on numerous occasions no one bar maybe Paul Duffy was showing for the ball, there was no running off the shoulder and the forwards didn't seem to know whether the ball would be in high or in front. In the first half defenders seemed to be marking space instead of their men and only reacted when the ball was on the way to a free man. In attack I lost count of the number of times Armagh gave the ball to an attacker who was surrounded by three men. All that said Down are decent side but they aren't great and will need to improve a lot to get back to last years level IMO.
As for McEaneney I am far from a fan and last nights performance did nothing to change my mind.
As to the substitutions, to me they seemed like they were scripted in advance of the game and not reactionary at all. I've said it before that I think Armagh are a couple of years away from being a very good team but they need a better manager to get there.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 26, 2011, 10:45:38 PM
I dont feel too dispondent after that for some reason. A game that could have gone any way a serious amount of misses on both sides.
A few positives, I thought we bossed MF from start to finish, Toner and Vernon had great games and look to be settling in as a formidable pairing, some top drawer defending (and some woeful defending). I was in the stand on Armagh's 50 for the first half and I have to say i've never seen Paul Duffy play a worse half of football, totally cleaned by Danny Hughes, to be fair to him he bucked up in the second half. I said last week that i thought Armagh's HB line was our weakest line, a bit of an improvement but still watery looking and porous at times.
Some poor decision making again form the line, I've read there posters giving off about not making changes quick enough, but I was of the opinion that there shouldn't have been any changes bar Lavery coming on - every other subsitution weakened us. It's a year (or 2) too early for Grugan - far too light. Would never have took Brian Mallon off, i thought he looked very dangerous. Stevie missed a few chances as well but gave Dan Gordon all sorts of headaches.
Very apparent that Down have so much more speed in their team, but they also seem sharper and more aware, Armagh were very laboured looking at times, no speed of thought.
Championship will be interesting, certainly both teams will hold no fear of the other. If we could get Jamie and Ronan Clarke in that forward line we'd be well fit for most teams, Still work to be done in the HB line and still a need for a CHF, thought MOR did very little this evening.
Marty Clarke was very good, thought McKeever on him did well too thou.
Mallon never touched the ball in the second half.
Boss midfield all day long if you want but useless if you can't translate the possession into scores. Also Down looked a lot fitter than Armagh.
We brought on 4 subs, 2 of them didn't physically touch a ball, they weakened us immeasurably. We did the exact same in a Mckenna cup match, thats why I would've left Mallon on( aside from the fact that he has more to offer than the boys that came on). I'd imagine he came off as he's had a niggly injury as well & maybe wasn't 100%
Quote from: John o connor on February 26, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay. What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: John o connor on February 26, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay. What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.
fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 27, 2011, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: John o connor on February 26, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay. What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.
fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you
the same applys to our ciaran mckeever and garth swift. they are no w**nkers.
Deft analysis from Dubh Driocht & Mourne Rover leaves little room for more comment. However having been critical of McKernan in his last two games I take my hat off to him for a really rumbustious and clever performance last night. I was impressed with Colgan when he came on against Galway and more so last night, looks leaner and keener, could be a big asset later in the year.
Hughes was phenomenal and showed real leadership.
But is it possible that we had one or two handpasses too many at times?
Hats off too to Down GAA and the facilities at Pairc Esler - it is a class ground.
on the night i thought down were clearly the better team and should have won by more than 1 point. bad decision making at times and some poor shooting cost us an even bigger win. big dan was immense and is really growing into the fullback role. downs subs all made decent contributions and when we get ambrose, wee dee rafferty, dan mc cartan and benny back to full fitneess there'll be some serious competion for places.
its not going to happen for por and that means he will get the road before sept. why wait i say dump him now. armagh have not improved at all, they have no method or plan, as said here the subs seem to be planned before the game even starts ::)
It just shows how different people see different things in matches. I thought that was one of murtaghs best games for down. He won every ball that went into him, uncharacteristically laid the ball off on many occassions and set up numerous chances, lavertys point and lavertys goal chance to name but 2.
Agee about big Dan, we are having a few struggles at midfield but there is no way i would take him out of FB, he provides a presence that we havnt had since the brian burns days and is surprising me with his defensive qualities.
Correct me if i am wrong but armagh would have arguable 4 (Hearty, Kearnan, Clarke and Clarke) and down would have at least 4 (McCartan, Rafferty, Rodgers, Coulter) not to mention Garvey and McCumisky to come into the starting line up for athletic grounds.
Both Rodgers and R Clarke are in a race against time to be ready and would both needs games under their belt in the national league if either are going to have an impact come championship.
Quote from: lawnseed on February 27, 2011, 11:45:24 AM
its not going to happen for por and that means he will get the road before sept. why wait i say dump him now. armagh have not improved at all, they have no method or plan, as said here the subs seem to be planned before the game even starts ::)
R u for real, have u ever seen this happen in county football, its not the f**king premiership. Armagh have played 3 league games, won 1 and 2 tight defeats. I mean Jesus H Christ give the man a break.
There are alot of armagh fans that just want to blame POR no matter what happens. Some wanted subs brought on alot earlier and others are saying the subs made no impact and were no better than what was already on the field. I actually think that if armagh could find a couple of break ball winners in the half forward line and a fully fit ronan clarke they would be very hard to beat as they are defensively strong and decent at midfield. POR obviously knows that they are struggling in the half forward line as he is trying out numerous players on this line over the last year and a bit. Is it his fault that armagh are currently struggling to churn out decent half forwards. I mean is there half fowards in armagh club football that he is ignoring?!!?
These type of rediculous statements grind my balls!!!
While I'd agree that Down were the better team they weren't as dominant as some of the Down posters or Ross Carr in his analysis on Setanta would have us believe. Our main problem continues to be our HF line. Grugan and MOR had a decent shift against Monaghan but were very poor last night. The worry would be that this will affect Grugan's confidence in the long term as he should solve this problem for us in the long term along with Nippy Swift.
We rarely supported the man in possession, in fairness it was something that Down did very well, with their HB's storming forward at every opportunity. This is something that Paul Duffy normally does well but his poor form from the Monaghan match continued.
We have to target the match in Castlebar and the home match with Galway to keep us up. C'mon Kilmacud Crokes!! :P
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 27, 2011, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: John o connor on February 26, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay. What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.
fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you
the same applys to our ciaran mckeever and garth swift. they are no w**nkers.
Wear u born in '01 so-called Fan01? ;)
Quote from: Santino on February 27, 2011, 01:38:37 PM
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: Dubh driocht on February 27, 2011, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: fan01 on February 27, 2011, 10:09:55 AM
Quote from: John o connor on February 26, 2011, 11:49:26 PM
Some strange posts on here tonight , IMO thought we were very comfortable biggest 1 point win I've seen in a while . Armagh tried to play football in the first half but reverted to type in second turning up the physical stakes which in the past we would have been unable to cope with. We hit 3/4 uprights , post , and created 3/4 goal chances . A glance at the benches was the biggest difference however , I wonder how Armagh would have dealt with stevie pulling out minutes before throw in . Others have pointed to cross players and R Clarke missing , true but we started the match missing benny , ambrose , d raff , dan mc cartan and p mc comiskey. Lastly I thought c mc keever was the biggest w**nker on the Armagh but I think he has a rival in g swift .
there is only one w**nker playin last night and that has to be the so called Marty Clarke, Mckeever done enough to keep him at bay. What about the down no.11 kneeling on finnian Moriaty neck...the red and black tinted glasses was on when this report was written.
fan01, the reason he is the so called Marty Clarke is because that is his name. I will say that again for you. That is his name.
I don't think anyone needs to say anything else to you
the same applys to our ciaran mckeever and garth swift. they are no w**nkers.
Wear u born in '01 so-called Fan01? ;)
No. why have you a problem?
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2011, 09:44:15 AM
We brought on 4 subs, 2 of them didn't physically touch a ball, they weakened us immeasurably. We did the exact same in a Mckenna cup match, thats why I would've left Mallon on( aside from the fact that he has more to offer than the boys that came on). I'd imagine he came off as he's had a niggly injury as well & maybe wasn't 100%
Benny, he didn't touch the ball in the second half. Literally didn't touch the ball. That is astonishing at this level. John Murtagh or Shorty Clarke are no world beaters but they would've at least touched leather if they'd been sent on earlier.
What annoys me: We have lost three quality forwards in Stefan Forker, Ryan Henderson and Kevin ORourke- all since POR has taken over, simply because he doesnt "rate" these lads. We need the likes of these lads who are going to pose a scoring threat on the opposition. IMO its worrying that we have absoultely no HF line and ff aren't doing much either.
Some positives to be taken from last nite but unfortunately a lot more negatives.
Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2011, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2011, 09:44:15 AM
We brought on 4 subs, 2 of them didn't physically touch a ball, they weakened us immeasurably. We did the exact same in a Mckenna cup match, thats why I would've left Mallon on( aside from the fact that he has more to offer than the boys that came on). I'd imagine he came off as he's had a niggly injury as well & maybe wasn't 100%
Benny, he didn't touch the ball in the second half. Literally didn't touch the ball. That is astonishing at this level. John Murtagh or Shorty Clarke are no world beaters but they would've at least touched leather if they'd been sent on earlier.
Doubt that's true, he slipped on his hole in front of me in possession of the ball. Watters & Clarke never touched leather, Murtagh scored a good point but is an unbelievable liability. I know who I'd prefer to see on no matter how many 'touches' he had.
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 24, 2011, 04:46:38 PM
On a dry hard pitch where our forwards could use their speed AND IF we were playing to the standard of last summer, then giving Armagh's current form, you would expect Armagh to be torn apart. But it isn't summer, the pitch doesn't suit our game and like Armagh, we are nowhere near on form.
This will be a game of two teams struggling for form. I expect to see many mistakes, many poor decisions in the passing, Quite a few slips (mostly from Down players), and the in bursts, sporadic wonderful glimpses of brilliance. I expect this from both teams because both teams have quality forwards who have talent regardless of form but due to lack of form will not be able to do it for a full 70 minutes.
Don't think that the match can be summed up better than this pre match synopsis by PaulD123.
If Down perservere with the brand of football they are playing, minimise errors and are more clinical in their finishing, I can see them wiping the floor with many a team this year. But I realise it is a big If, as I reckon they have had the potential to do that since 2008.
Where was Mal Mackin last night? Didn't see him (or Ronan clarke) on the line.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2011, 07:04:07 PM
Where was Mal Mackin last night? Didn't see him (or Ronan clarke) on the line.
Probably because you were too busy watching B. Mallon :D
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 27, 2011, 12:05:53 PM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 27, 2011, 11:45:24 AM
its not going to happen for por and that means he will get the road before sept. why wait i say dump him now. armagh have not improved at all, they have no method or plan, as said here the subs seem to be planned before the game even starts ::)
R u for real, have u ever seen this happen in county football, its not the f**king premiership. Armagh have played 3 league games, won 1 and 2 tight defeats. I mean Jesus H Christ give the man a break.
There are alot of armagh fans that just want to blame POR no matter what happens. Some wanted subs brought on alot earlier and others are saying the subs made no impact and were no better than what was already on the field. I actually think that if armagh could find a couple of break ball winners in the half forward line and a fully fit ronan clarke they would be very hard to beat as they are defensively strong and decent at midfield. POR obviously knows that they are struggling in the half forward line as he is trying out numerous players on this line over the last year and a bit. Is it his fault that armagh are currently struggling to churn out decent half forwards. I mean is there half fowards in armagh club football that he is ignoring?!!?
These type of rediculous statements grind my balls!!!
With all due respect the comments based on POR are clearly not based on just three league games, it based on the last 15 months when Armagh have looked completely clueless despite having a very decent squad of players and POR has looked to have been out matched by nearly every manager he has faced. IMO POR has all ready shown himself to simply not be good enough either tactically or in keeping the squad together. The only reason I can see for keeping him is that you wont get the required calibre of manager at the stage because they are involved with other teams. So I can understand why others on this board are calling for his head.
Its ridiculous to suggest that teams shouldnt change managers early in the league simply because it isnt done historically. I hope i am wrong but I cant see Armagh doing much under POR
In all honesty, is it POR's fault that we don't have a decent half-forward line? I would dare say it has been up to D Murtagh to provide inside knowledge on the players available in Armagh, judging by some of the inclusions in this year's panel. Someone mentioned Forker, Henderson and K O'Rourke, while I agree they are very good scoring forwards that should never have been let go, they won't solve the problems in the half forward line.
Donal Murtagh must answer for the retirement fo Forker, Henderson and O'Rourke, whilst the including Johnny Murtagh.
By the way, has Johnny Murtagh not signed on to the Cross panel because he was in the States?
Quote from: Orior on February 27, 2011, 07:40:08 PM
Donal Murtagh must answer for the retirement fo Forker, Henderson and O'Rourke, whilst the including Johnny Murtagh.
By the way, has Johnny Murtagh not signed on to the Cross panel because he was in the States?
Apparently he isn't eligible as he played championship over in NY. I'd have any of those other three ahead of Murtagh.
When Aaron Kernan is available again he should be slotted into the half back line allowing Kevin Dyas to take a place in the half forward line. In addition Gareth O'Neill should be tried at full forward allowing Gareth Swift to get an opportunity to play at centre half forward. If Armagh could get the half forward line sorted out it would definitely get us over the line in these tight 1 or 2 point games.
1. Paul Hearty
2. Andy Mallon 3. Brendan Donaghy 4. Finnian Moriarty
5. Aaron Kernan 6. Ciaran McKeever 7. Paul Duffy
7. Charlie Vernon 8. Kieran Toner
10. Kevin Dyas 11. Gareth Swift 12. Billy Jo Padden
13. Jamie Clarke 14. Gareth O'Neill or Ronan Clarke 15. Stevie McDonnell
QuoteApparently he isn't eligible as he played championship over in NY.
There was a quote from Tony Mac in the programme at Navan to the effect that while some peripheral members of the Cross panel had gone to the US/Australia, nobody of any use had done so!
The game in Newry was enjoyable enough, the Marshes is now a fine ground. Down deserved the narrow win, but weren't as good as some Mourne posters think. Neither was it the worst Armagh performance for years, anyone who says that wasn't in Navan etc in recent leagues. It is very noticeable that Armagh lack pace and lack the organisation to have the man running to take the pass. I imagine that Down and even Monaghan have taken some of the Tyrone philosophy of training at pace to promote speed of thought. Armagh is still more in the stand your ground and win your own ball mode.
The players all think Paddy Orourke and Donal Murtagh are absolutely uselees, so how is this team going to go anywhere without having respect for the manager. They know there useless and dont have a clue. We have no system at all, nobody in the forward line really knows what there jobs are. Compare that to Downs forward line. Paddy O'Rourke had alot of the Downs players in his time and they were useless, look at them now. The County Board have alot to answer for! I feel sorry for the boys trainin away knowin that they will never do anyhtin with POR in charge. County Board need to grow a set for a change!
Duffleking what did u think of the laughable bad defenders performance to keep one of the best forwards in ireland to a point from play?!?
Thought dan gordon was very impressive
Would you revise ur view on his defensive capabilities? What about Mckernan who I agree needs work defensively but upped his game considerably in terms of his responsibilities as a defender first and attacker second.
Certainly reappraise gordon - though its the first time he's given me reason to do so. McKernan was as naive and sloppy defensively last night as ever - that it wasn't exploited doesn't make him a better defender.
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2011, 08:02:48 PM
QuoteApparently he isn't eligible as he played championship over in NY.
There was a quote from Tony Mac in the programme at Navan to the effect that while some peripheral members of the Cross panel had gone to the US/Australia, nobody of any use had done so!
The game in Newry was enjoyable enough, the Marshes is now a fine ground. Down deserved the narrow win, but weren't as good as some Mourne posters think. Neither was it the worst Armagh performance for years, anyone who says that wasn't in Navan etc in recent leagues. It is very noticeable that Armagh lack pace and lack the organisation to have the man running to take the pass. I imagine that Down and even Monaghan have taken some of the Tyrone philosophy of training at pace to promote speed of thought. Armagh is still more in the stand your ground and win your own ball mode.
Classic Tony Mac. I read in Oisin's book that during a bonding session for the Armagh team, he told a fellow panelist that he wasnt county standard. Is there a name for someone that cant tell lies?
was at the game last night - impartial, as im a tyrone fan...thought that both teams didnt look great...Armagh looked lost and very unsettled in midfield for parts of the game...Clarke was given too much freedom bu to be fair isnt really all that...Steve McD did alot of running and looked v strong...cant see either team doing much for the year, unless big improvements
Allianz Football League Division 1 P W D L F A +/- Pts
1 Dublin 3 3 0 0 8-35 2-42 11 6
2 Down 3 2 1 0 5-30 2-33 6 5
3 Cork 3 2 0 1 1-48 5-38 -2 4
4 Mayo 3 1 1 1 3-35 4-28 4 3
5 Kerry 3 1 0 2 3-37 3-35 2 2
6 Monaghan 3 1 0 2 1-44 2-40 1 2
7 Armagh 3 1 0 2 2-33 2-37 -4 2
8 Galway 3 0 0 3 1-35 4-44 -18 0
Not a bad look to the table from my point of view - Down with the best defence and second in the scoring ranks - hope I can say the same after their next three matches!
Lol did tony mac actually say that to a fellow member of the panel, he is certainly straight and to the point
Quotewas at the game last night - impartial, as im a tyrone fan.
Had a yearning for Div 1 football, I suppose.
QuoteNaomhBridAbú
Don't be using that username about Cross'
Did I read somewhere that Ross "Michael McGimpsey" Carr gave ronan Murtgah mom on Setanta?
Not enough to be boring, has to be bullsh1t champ as well!
He was very close to my mom too, 2 cracking scores,at least 2 assists and won every ball that went in, who was urs Leo
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 27, 2011, 10:21:04 PM
He was very close to my mom too, 2 cracking scores,at least 2 assists and won every ball that went in, who was urs Leo
Danny Hughes by a mile - taking the hits, foraging deep to fetch and turn defence to attack, even a couple of beautiful catches under pressure, not perfect butt a BIG game, duracell man.....
I like Murtagh, I see alot of club games where he is immense, he did well - but nowhere mom - ahead of him were Hughes, Gordon and McKernan (who made me eat my words after recent displays).
Thought Danny had a great first half but quieter in the second and made some wrong decisions which may have been punished against stronger opposite. Agree that Dan and mckernan played very well but thought considering he came in at very late notice and was up against one of the best full backs about, murtagh got the vote for me
As an Armagh man I thought Danny Hughes was the best player on the pitch by a distance. If we could take one Down player to player for Armagh I would pick him every time. As for Gordon he did play rightly last night but on most other days Stevie would have scored 3 or 4 from play with the chances he got. The Monaghan player marked him nearly as well but Stevie finished the match with 3 from play. I like McKernans attitude to playing but he was marking an inexperienced player (in intercounty terms) and it should be a few more games before you can see if he is improving defensively.
I know some Down posters are suggesting that Armagh did not have many missing from their first team - and they might be true - but last night our major problem was that we had no obvious options to bring on. Down could bring on fresh legs that gave the team impetus while it seemed to me Armagh only brought the last couple of subs on when they thought the game was slipping away. More panic than plan!
Finally can Armagh posters help me here. I go to most Armagh matches. Since the introduction of Saturday night floodlit matches how many league games under lights have Armagh actually won. I can only think of the Laois game last year. Any more? We have definitely taken some heavy defeats! Ban these matches I say! ;D
Agree completely with Tevez.
Time for a bit of realism here. Armagh have no game plan whatsoever as far as i can see. If we do, would someone kindly explain it to me ?
I've heard the rumours of the players having no respect for the management before and it may or may not be true but Armagh look like a team playing on instinct alone which simply won't cut it in this day and age.
This is no knee jerk reaction to a defeat to Down either. Last season i thought we were in trouble tactically and there has been no improvement whatsoever this season.
feels like the dark days again..................................
did coulter feature at any stage?
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on February 28, 2011, 09:34:50 AM
did coulter feature at any stage?
Nope....didn't need him ;)
Thought myself that Down were comfortable throughout despite the squeaky bum last 10 minutes.
We have a seriously strong bench. Garvey, McCumiskey and Colgan all did well and we still had Doyle and Clarke unused....young Murdock looks the part and was very quick off his line to block McDonnell.
There are few boys on here laughing at Ross Carr's MOM award for Murtagh......he won every ball that went in to him and used it well....then he effectively won the game with his two points at the end.....I might be biased but he deserved MOM for that alone.
Other plusses on the night were Dan's performance....in fact I thought our whole full back line looked solid and we still have Dee Raff and Dan McCartan to come back. Maginn's is maturing into a fine player and enough has been said about Danny Hughes on here already...
A satisfying night all round.....
[I've heard the rumours of the players having no respect for the management before and it may or may not be true but Armagh look like a team playing on instinct alone which simply won't cut it in this day and age.
This is no knee jerk reaction to a defeat to Down either. Last season i thought we were in trouble tactically and there has been no improvement whatsoever this season.
feels like the dark days again..................................
[/quote]
i hear that POR et AL have approached a few guys in the county to sort out a forwards coach but have been turned down because they dont think the management team will be about that long, is this true ?
another annoying thing for me was pre match in that down went thru a thorough warm up yet armagh had a few shorts at goal, it all looked amateurish from an armagh point of view, what remit has mc gurn
interesting point for me was that i was sitting close to mc ivor in the stand who was barking out instructions to paddy tally to run on to the pitch and implement, yet we had our management team on the line watching impassively .
Armagh tried hard but are lacking overall talent. Perhaps the Cross players will improve that. I wouldn't be banking on Ronan Clarke though, we have no idea what sort of player he will come back. Also with Cross winning, Armagh now have to play Mayo away and Kerry at home without those players. But Paddy is a disaster, he is indeed tactically inept. From the school of - "Get stuck in lads" management. I can't see Armagh improving while you have him in charge. As someone else pointed out most of the current Down team were available to him and we were beat out the door in each championship.
As for Down - if we become more ruthless we can challenge any team in the country. We were much improved in regaining possession in midfield, our defence kept Armagh to the 2nd lowest score in any Division 1 game this year, and we created 5 really good goal chances.
Next time against Cork is a serious challenge. We have had three games where we are making slight improvements each time. We've had the luxury of being below 100% and still getting away with it. Now we embark on a series of away games that we need to have the errors corrected and perform pretty much to our full ability. It has been a good schedule for us from that point of view.
I said here on friday it would be a comfortable 5/6 point win, it should have been if danny hughes had scored at the end but it was the most comfortable one point win Iv seen in a long time.
I feel a bit sorry for Armagh because they actually do have some very very good players, they have a couple of cracking minor teams coming through but unfortunately along the sideline they have a very inept management team who are clearly out of their depth.
Justin mc nulty has proved a hit with Laois and I feel Paddy will regret not replacing him before the summer is out.
Are people actually serious here?? 2 narrow defeats to, arguably, 2 of the top 3 teams in Irealand last year and POR is getting a bollocking for it! Sum people need to realise that little fact before the crucification begins.
As regard to andy getting "skint alot this last while", the poor fella's usually assigned the task of marking the oppisition best players. I feel that not 1 player in the country could contain the likes of brogan when hes being supplied with countless oppertunities!
Finally, the Ciarian mc Keever issue. Hes a first class dickhead! But we should take solace in the fact that hes are dickhead, he gets in players heads and on their nerves. Id rather see him playing chb for the orchard than anybody else!
P.S., if and when the 2 clarkes return i could almost guarentee these close encounters will sway are way (am pretty confident them boys could muster together a few scores ;))
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
Are people actually serious here?? 2 narrow defeats to, arguably, 2 of the top 3 teams in Irealand last year and POR is getting a bollocking for it! Sum people need to realise that little fact before the crucification begins.
You presume all criticism stems from this year's displays alone. It does not.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM
As regard to andy getting "skint alot this last while", the poor fella's usually assigned the task of marking the oppisition best players. I feel that not 1 player in the country could contain the likes of brogan when hes being supplied with countless oppertunities!
Conor Laverty is not next nor near Down's best player. And Mallon did not mark Brogan in the Dublin game. Mallon has high standards, and by these standards he hasn't been great lately.
To be fair to Andy Mallon theres wasps that couldnt catch conor laverty.
A good result for Down but the performance was error ridden. We need to be more clinical up front for the three big away games coming up. Danny Hughes was my MOM by a mile.
Quote from: naka on February 28, 2011, 10:41:07 AM
[I've heard the rumours of the players having no respect for the management before and it may or may not be true but Armagh look like a team playing on instinct alone which simply won't cut it in this day and age.
This is no knee jerk reaction to a defeat to Down either. Last season i thought we were in trouble tactically and there has been no improvement whatsoever this season.
feels like the dark days again..................................
i hear that POR et AL have approached a few guys in the county to sort out a forwards coach but have been turned down because they dont think the management team will be about that long, is this true ?another annoying thing for me was pre match in that down went thru a thorough warm up yet armagh had a few shorts at goal, it all looked amateurish from an armagh point of view, what remit has mc gurn
interesting point for me was that i was sitting close to mc ivor in the stand who was barking out instructions to paddy tally to run on to the pitch and implement, yet we had our management team on the line watching impassively .
[/quote]
Who was approached
will ask my source cani confirm names
fyi tierney confirmed this as well in his column in the irish news last week that people had been approached but turned it down
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 28, 2011, 11:21:00 AM
Also with Cross winning, Armagh now have to play Mayo away and Kerry at home without those players.
They should only be missing for the Mayo match. We play Kerry at home on the 20th of March. In fairness to the Kernans they always come straight back in after their club matches and hopefully Jaimie Clarke and Paul Hearty will do that also. I'd imagine a home tie against Kerry will be a big enough carrott to encourage them all to come back immediately, especially with relegation hanging over their county team.
Quote from: naka on February 28, 2011, 02:07:58 PM
will ask my source cani confirm names
fyi tierney confirmed this as well in his column in the irish news last week that people had been approached but turned it down
He didn't cite the same reason as you for them turning the job down though.
We badly need someone to get the forwards moving in a more cohesive way.
Forgive me for presumming the criticism does spawn from this year, after all we are posting on the down vs armagh page(reading through posts most references are made about armaghs 2 defeats), not the POR should be axed page ;). If these matches were won would we even be having this conversation?? But fair due, last years championship was a bit of an anti-climax with that hiding by Monaghan, and blame should be put towards management!
My mistake regards mallon, assumed he marked brogan (missed match :(), after all the lack of natural corner backs in the county could a could only assume... the point im getting at is that it even a player of mallons standard will slip up, nobodys perfect 100%!
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2011, 10:03:46 PM
Quotewas at the game last night - impartial, as im a tyrone fan.
Had a yearning for Div 1 football, I suppose.
QuoteNaomhBridAbú
Don't be using that username about Cross'
I dont have a hang up about Armagh as a neighbouring county - was down to see a good game of football and was a bit dissappointed to be honest, with the exception of parts of the second half.
Will be supporting Cross all the way on st pats, and willntry and get to the game.
Not sure how warranted the slagging of the managment team is - I'd like to see a list of all those players that have been overlooked for games so far - excluding the 4/5 from Cross, and a few injuries, the management team are not overlooking any better players.
Secondly, they played against a good Down team - not a great one, and one that is also in a period of transition...the Armagh management team is looking at surfing in Div 1, I'd say as a priority. All other focus would be on June onwards, and the team selection should be a bit different then.
Its wrong to be blaming a management team at this time of year in a competition, which let's face it is only relevant to your over all strategy NEXT year, should youbget relegated.
Peaking is key in GAA, arguably more so than in soccer and youll not enjoy the false sense of security that goes along with winning the Th McKenna cup or NFL...Anglo celt and Sam is what really matters
Quote from: NaomhBridAbú on February 28, 2011, 02:43:50 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on February 27, 2011, 10:03:46 PM
Quotewas at the game last night - impartial, as im a tyrone fan.
Had a yearning for Div 1 football, I suppose.
QuoteNaomhBridAbú
Don't be using that username about Cross'
When I say surfing, I probably meant surviving
I dont have a hang up about Armagh as a neighbouring county - was down to see a good game of football and was a bit dissappointed to be honest, with the exception of parts of the second half.
Will be supporting Cross all the way on st pats, and willntry and get to the game.
Not sure how warranted the slagging of the managment team is - I'd like to see a list of all those players that have been overlooked for games so far - excluding the 4/5 from Cross, and a few injuries, the management team are not overlooking any better players.
Secondly, they played against a good Down team - not a great one, and one that is also in a period of transition...the Armagh management team is looking at surfing in Div 1, I'd say as a priority. All other focus would be on June onwards, and the team selection should be a bit different then.
Its wrong to be blaming a management team at this time of year in a competition, which let's face it is only relevant to your over all strategy NEXT year, should youbget relegated.
Peaking is key in GAA, arguably more so than in soccer and youll not enjoy the false sense of security that goes along with winning the Th McKenna cup or NFL...Anglo celt and Sam is what really matters
Firstly I thought Down deserved their win & but for some poor decision making they couldve walked away 5/6 point winners.
Pluses for Down were :
Ronan Murtagh - Offered a target man all night long & had the ability to take on his man & get scores. Looks to have got rid of the glorying which pherhaps restricted his performances last year? Now seems more of a team player.
Danny Hughes - Incredible engine & workrate. No longer gets bullied out of games by defenders using borderline tactics to stop his game. Ran the Armagh defence ragged all night & was pivotal as a link man for the defence & midfield. Downs best ball carrier.
Kevin McKernan - Defensively he isnt ever going to be a terrific man marker but counters this with a strategy of putting his man on the back foot for more as much of the game as he can. Done this very well Saturday night.
Kalum King - Although not as noticeable as some above I thought he was the one who seemed to take Armagh's physical players on head to head & showed Down finally have a guy in their who if you want to get physical with you will more than likely end up on your arse. Always plays things simple & held the Midfield together for Down when Fitzpatrick went awol for long periods.
Dan Gordon - Good display & the big diagonal balls that Armagh tend to favour into their isolated forward line allowed him to dominate McDonnell. But at times stood too far off his man & on another day McDonnell couldve caused him some serious problems.
Some fellas seemed to struggle. Gerard McCartan needs to add some weight to his game. looked to light in the tackle & too easy put off the ball. Fitzpatrick chose countless wrong options in the first half. He seemed more concerned in adding his name to the scoresheet. I thought Martin Clarke was poor enough. Made some strange decisions & at times wants the eye of the needle pass. Freetaking was poor also. blasted one wide from 21 yards & hit another from in front of the stand in the 2nd half with a few mins left that hadnt a chance of ever making it with the conditions. This at a time there was the minimum between the teams.
On McEnaney I thought he was very poor. A TV Ref who lords the limelight & was totally inconsistent in his decisions. Seemed to allow Armagh to be a lot more physical in the tackle than Down but to be fair both sets of fans were puzzled at times by his view.
Armagh arent a bad team & Paddy O'Rourke will never win over some of their fans simply due to the fact he is from Down. His team were well in the game for long periods but seemed to struggle in areas. McDonnell & Swift were their only major threat in the forward line. In Midfield Vernon wants to carry the ball far too much & this prevents quick ball into the full forwards. Duffy never got forward all night & Morriarty always seems more intent on getting in a late hit than offering an option to his fellow defenders. In Kevin Dyas they must be scratching their heads because since his return from Oz I have seen very little in his game that warrants inclusion, maybe Armagh folk could tell me different?
But come The Championship it will be two fairly different looking teams Id imagine. Good performance from a Down perspective but by no means does it mean Armagh will be walkovers come The Atletic Grounds meeting.
My point about Paddy Orourke is that he has had 2 yrs in charge and there is still no real plan about how we play and how we go about getting scores. Compare this to what McGeeney has done with Kildare, they have a gameplan that they stick to all the time and the players no exactly what to do. We have the same thing get the ball to stevy. I dont think anyone wud say Kildares forwards are any better than us, but they know there jobs and the team know their gameplan. Players know this and cant believe their stuck with him!
Quote from: guevara on February 28, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
Armagh arent a bad team & Paddy O'Rourke will never win over some of their fans simply due to the fact he is clueless
fixed that for you
QuoteArmagh arent a bad team & Paddy O'Rourke will never win over some of their fans simply due to the fact he is from Down
Why was it that a lot of Down fans couldn't wait to get rid of him when he was over them?
because he was from down?
Quote from: guevara on February 28, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
Dan Gordon - Good display & the big diagonal balls that Armagh tend to favour into their isolated forward line allowed him to dominate McDonnell. But at times stood too far off his man & on another day McDonnell couldve caused him some serious problems.
I get the feeling from various posts here that Down people are trying to
convince themselves that they have an answer to their FB problem in the shape of Dan. I dont buy it guys, if Stevie had've had his shooting boots the other night it could've been embarassing for Dan.
Lads Im just looking at it from an outsiders point of view. Joe Kernan the "God" in Armagh Football who many would claim to be a genius struggled badly in Galway without the abundance of talent he had at his posession at Crossmaglen & Armagh.
The truth be told O'Rourke picked up an Armagh team in a period of transition in my view. The old stalwarts like McConville, McGrane, McGeeney & Marsden had all called it a day & new blood had to be brought in.
What do you want the man to do?? Pull players out of nowhere?? The simple fact is Armagh are probably at a stage Down were in 3/4 years ago in that they had good Club players who had achieved absolutely nothing at County level & were failing to transfer their Club form to Intercounty standard.
McGeeney had the chance to go back & take Armagh & avoided it as he probably realised that he couldnt have done what he wanted to for Armagh Football with that group of players at the time.
Must say I really enjoyed the match on saturday, there was some outstanding play (particulalry from the Down forwards) & some complete episodes of comedy. It pains me to say it, but Down were by far the better team & ifthey had of took their chances could have been out of sight. When Down run at teams with their speed and swift hand passing they are a delight to watch & with Dublin are possibly the most lethal goal chance makingteam in the country. I was particularly inpressed with young Hughes & who was the wee fella (13) he is lightening quick.
From Armaghs point of view, I would agree with many previous comments, Armagh are a team in transition, a lot of the lads it is only their second season at inter county level, i firmly believe you need 2 full seasons under your belt when transitioning from club level to get fully comfotable with the levels expected and gain real confidence.
Points
Armaghs mid field won hands down (I thought Down were wiped out in this sector) however a combination of poor play into the forwards and very poor movement from the armagh forwards for such passes, returned a very low return. Toner had a great improvement on the first 2 games.
Stevie Mac is still the best forward in the business and still shows a great hunger for the cause. I also thought swift showed and won a fair amount of ball
Armagh needs a forwards coach and they need one now. The lack of movement or imagination or connected inteplay was astounding. (in contrast to dwons forwards movement)
I thought Paddon was very unlucky to be taken off, while he does make some silly mistakes I felt he tried very hard, was on the ball a lot and at least tried to make things happen. Was his best game so far
How mallon & O rourke stayed on for 60 mins is beyond me, they were very poor. Youcould see the confidence visibly drain from them in the second half & towards the end, they were not showing for the ball, basically hiding.
Mc Keever did well on clarke, dyas does some very good things and then in the following seconds will do the mosts stupid (I just cannot form an opinion on him yet) Duffy while good going forward is a liability at thgis level, he has no positional sense and loses his man too often. (Maybe this is a tactic?) Andy Mallon got a fair roasting by the No 13, i think we might have seen the best of Andy (hopefully I will be proved wrong) DOnaghy has developed an awful habit of consistently fouling and giving away kickable frees (I believe this is down to fatigue, as hes playing too much football at the minute)
All in all, while disappointed, when kernan, 2 clarkes and (dare i say it, i've always liked stephen kernan as a chf) come into the side, Armagh will give Down a fair run for their money come May
Quote from: bennydorano on February 28, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: guevara on February 28, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
Dan Gordon - Good display & the big diagonal balls that Armagh tend to favour into their isolated forward line allowed him to dominate McDonnell. But at times stood too far off his man & on another day McDonnell couldve caused him some serious problems.
I get the feeling from various posts here that Down people are trying to convince themselves that they have an answer to their FB problem in the shape of Dan. I dont buy it guys, if Stevie had've had his shooting boots the other night it could've been embarassing for Dan.
If my granny had balls she would be my granda. The fact is he missed them, could this not be down to good pressure by dan, no of course not. The tremendous block was probably down to hesitence from stevie too was it!!!!
Sure it is probably the same for Donaghy last year, 2 of the best forwards in ireland just had off days on dan and IF they got him again they would roast him alive!!!!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 28, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
QuoteArmagh arent a bad team & Paddy O'Rourke will never win over some of their fans simply due to the fact he is from Down
Why was it that a lot of Down fans couldn't wait to get rid of him when he was over them?
because he was from down?
i wouldnt care if he was ian paisley and nelson mc causland`s love child if he could get us an all ireland sadly he is not up to it , its an irrelevance that he is from down,
simple question for you is whether you would offer him the down job if wee james quit and i think i know the answer
Quote from: BerfArmagh on February 28, 2011, 09:27:54 PM
Armagh needs a forwards coach and they need one now. The lack of movement or imagination or connected inteplay was astounding. (in contrast to dwons forwards movement)
Just out of interest what would you envisage a "forwards coach" to do?? Work with the forward players only?
Surely how the Armagh team attacks would be something for the entire team to work on as opposed to the forwards only as after all the majority of the time the forwards are dependant on the ball they are getting.
You compliment Down on their movement, have they a "forwards coach"?
Quote from: naka on February 28, 2011, 10:01:43 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on February 28, 2011, 08:46:48 PM
QuoteArmagh arent a bad team & Paddy O'Rourke will never win over some of their fans simply due to the fact he is from Down
Why was it that a lot of Down fans couldn't wait to get rid of him when he was over them?
because he was from down?
i wouldnt care if he was ian paisley and nelson mc causland`s love child if he could get us an all ireland sadly he is not up to it , its an irrelevance that he is from down,
simple question for you is whether you would offer him the down job if wee james quit and i think i know the answer
It wouldn't matter if armagh had bob paisley, they still wouldn't win an all Ireland. If u don't have the forwards u don't have the forwards, and armagh don't.
I freely admit down don't have a great defence but u can work a system around a dad defence, u can do nothing if u don't have scoring forwards or break ball winning forwards ur fucked
Quote from: loughshore lad on February 28, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on February 28, 2011, 09:27:54 PM
Armagh needs a forwards coach and they need one now. The lack of movement or imagination or connected inteplay was astounding. (in contrast to dwons forwards movement)
Just out of interest what would you envisage a "forwards coach" to do?? Work with the forward players only?
Surely how the Armagh team attacks would be something for the entire team to work on as opposed to the forwards only as after all the majority of the time the forwards are dependant on the ball they are getting.
You compliment Down on their movement, have they a "forwards coach"?
Yep...we call him Wee James...can't do much better imho.
Forwards coach now?
People are losing the plot.
Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.
That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.
Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.
Get realistic chaps.
Quote from: 5 Sams on February 28, 2011, 10:35:28 PM
Quote from: loughshore lad on February 28, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
Quote from: BerfArmagh on February 28, 2011, 09:27:54 PM
Armagh needs a forwards coach and they need one now. The lack of movement or imagination or connected inteplay was astounding. (in contrast to dwons forwards movement)
Just out of interest what would you envisage a "forwards coach" to do?? Work with the forward players only?
Surely how the Armagh team attacks would be something for the entire team to work on as opposed to the forwards only as after all the majority of the time the forwards are dependant on the ball they are getting.
You compliment Down on their movement, have they a "forwards coach"?
Yep...we call him Wee James...can't much better imho.
Think I remember reading last year "wee James" said he takes none of the training, the way he set up Queens, St Gall's and Ballinderry in his time over each of them would suggest he likes (or at least did like) a defensive style but then maybe he didn't have as many good forwards at his disposal then as he does now.
Quote from: whitegoodman on February 28, 2011, 09:56:13 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 28, 2011, 09:02:20 PM
Quote from: guevara on February 28, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
Dan Gordon - Good display & the big diagonal balls that Armagh tend to favour into their isolated forward line allowed him to dominate McDonnell. But at times stood too far off his man & on another day McDonnell couldve caused him some serious problems.
I get the feeling from various posts here that Down people are trying to convince themselves that they have an answer to their FB problem in the shape of Dan. I dont buy it guys, if Stevie had've had his shooting boots the other night it could've been embarassing for Dan.
If my granny had balls she would be my granda. The fact is he missed them, could this not be down to good pressure by dan, no of course not. The tremendous block was probably down to hesitence from stevie too was it!!!!
Sure it is probably the same for Donaghy last year, 2 of the best forwards in ireland just had off days on dan and IF they got him again they would roast him alive!!!!
Just something i noticed, Armagh's (many) inadequacies are a separate issue. Bigging up Dan will do Down no good in the long term,no matter how much you want him to suceed.
Well he has played there now close to 10 times and has had one skinning which is better than our previous attempts in that position. also provides a tremendous presence which can't be underestimated in modern football
Quote from: PatDaly on February 27, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
When Aaron Kernan is available again he should be slotted into the half back line allowing Kevin Dyas to take a place in the half forward line. In addition Gareth O'Neill should be tried at full forward allowing Gareth Swift to get an opportunity to play at centre half forward. If Armagh could get the half forward line sorted out it would definitely get us over the line in these tight 1 or 2 point games.
1. Paul Hearty
2. Andy Mallon 3. Brendan Donaghy 4. Finnian Moriarty
5. Aaron Kernan 6. Ciaran McKeever 7. Paul Duffy
7. Charlie Vernon 8. Kieran Toner
10. Kevin Dyas 11. Gareth Swift 12. Billy Jo Padden
13. Jamie Clarke 14. Gareth O'Neill or Ronan Clarke 15. Stevie McDonnell
Half forward line is definitely the main ( but not only) area of concern. Dyas is worth a look here and Swift played well in patches here last year but are there enough scores?
Grugan will be a good sub for last 15/20 mins but we need some pace in the HF line. Although it would mean moving him away from goals would it be worth risking moving Jamie Clarke out to the HF line?
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2011, 10:35:55 PM
Forwards coach now?
People are losing the plot.
Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.
That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.
Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.
Get realistic chaps.
Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.
Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.
POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 28, 2011, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2011, 10:35:55 PM
Forwards coach now?
People are losing the plot.
Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.
That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.
Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.
Get realistic chaps.
Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.
Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.
POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.
Unless they have been hiding under a bushel who are these defenders?
Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 28, 2011, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2011, 10:35:55 PM
Forwards coach now?
People are losing the plot.
Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.
That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.
Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.
Get realistic chaps.
Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.
Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.
POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.
Would have to agree with this - although I wouldn't put the boot into Paddy just yet,as I think the championship is far from a foregone conclusion.
Yes but what you fail to recognise in your own analysis DK is that Down have made massive progress in this time. Under James McCartan the team has finally got a settled look about it.
In 2008 Armagh beat Cavan, Down & Fermanagh to win the Ulster Championship??? Hardly the hardest set of games they couldve faced that year? Down were totally inconsistent as were Fermanagh after early promise & Cavan were brutal!
Armagh's team that day was : Hearty; Mallon, Bellew, Moriarty; Donaghy, A O'Rourke, C McKeever; McGrane, Toner; Vernon, P McKeever, M O'Rourke; McDonnell, Clarke, S Kernan.
Out of that team the highlighted guys mentioned provided a massive amount of experience of winning tight games or grinding out results that Armagh didnt always deserve. They rovided leadership & filled pivotal roles within a quite young team. You can add to that Hearty who has an AI.
Of the 6 defenders that day 4 are still on your team now
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 01, 2011, 12:33:08 AM
Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too
Mallon had great form a couple of years ago, doesnt seem near as sharp now. Donaghy isnt next nor near the best full back in Ulster, good footballer but you are overrating him. You are talking about better defenders and then you bring Duffy and Kernan into it? Dyas has potential but again where talking about now, same with McKeown. Would give you McKeever alright, Derry could be doing with someone like him at the minute.
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 01, 2011, 12:33:08 AM
Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too
Donaghy is good, McKeever is good. Mallon was roasted by Down speed and will be roasted again by a fast forward. You didn't even mention Moriarty, hardly surprising given his error count. Kernan is a decent attacker but is hardly a top class defender. Duffy is more interested in trying to get sneaky hits in than playing football. So in fact given Mallon's loss of speed Armagh have in fact two good defenders - Donaghy and McKeever, so as long as the opposition only have two good attackers they'll be fine.
Down have similar defensive issues but our solution is to turn them all into real footballers and train them to work as a unit so as to provide backup.
I don't know why i'm answering you but i suppose there has to be newsround to go with newsnight.
A defence is not built on 6 out and out stoppers. in that regard we have 3 of the best who can also play football - that's 1 or 2 more than most decent defences. take down for example - no defenders individually at that level. other defenders in ulster at that level i would say justin McMahon, Karl Lacey, Darren Hughes, Barry Owens and a firing conor gormley.
Like a forward line, individual talent is not enough. Armagh are not defending as a unit and those three individuals are not playing well at the minute. Both i put at the door of management.
the other defenders on the squad are at least county standard. if you don't think moriarty, dyas, duffy, ak or McKeown can't do a good job on the three lesser threats in any forward line, particularly with the first three in place, then i don't know.
by the way - anyone who says that mallon is struggling because of pace is very poorly informed.
Quote from: oakleafgael on March 01, 2011, 12:50:23 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 01, 2011, 12:33:08 AM
Mallon's form has dipped but he's an exceptional man marker. Donaghy is the best full back in ulster at least. McKeever is a class apart. those three are defenders of the highest quality - rare to have in the same team. Dyas has the potential to be our best player. AK and duffy are very good attacking half backs. crossmaglen captain McKeown has tremendous potential too
Mallon had great form a couple of years ago, doesnt seem near as sharp now. Donaghy isnt next nor near the best full back in Ulster, good footballer but you are overrating him. You are talking about better defenders and then you bring Duffy and Kernan into it? Dyas has potential but again where talking about now, same with McKeown. Would give you McKeever alright, Derry could be doing with someone like him at the minute.
The highlighted bit definitely qualifies for d1ckhead post of the year!!! Darren Hughes gave a great exhibition of full back play against us (and he would normally play HB as far as I am aware), outside of that I've haven't seen anybody in Ulster to better him.
So according to Dufflelking Armagh only need three defenders. Well done, that will take care of teams that only have three attackers. Of course it would need those opposition teams to be awful decent and play their only three decent attackers at CHF for McKeever to mark, Full Forward for Donaghy to mark and one in the corner for Mallon to Mark. I'm sure the rest of the county managers will have no problem accommodating you on this one.
God forbid they may actually put of a strong half forward line like Coulter-Clarke-Hughes. That would just be unfair on poor Donaghy having to waste his time marking the "Weaker" forward Ronan Murtagh who incidentally caught everything on Saturday and scored two points from play against him.
And it would be a disgrace if Cork decided to play a full-forward line of Goulding-O'Connor-Sheehan. Surely one of these boys should be placed at CHF for McKeever to mark, mind you Cork would probably be happy to move Pearse O'Neill in form the right wing to centre just to accommodate McKeever. They wouldn't be so selfish as to have him up against Duffy who is not meant to be defending in Duffleking's system.
Come on now don't be silly. You don't get to choose where the "lesser threats" come from, nor do you get to dictate that the opposition are only allowed to play three good attackers. If you play two non-defensive wing backs then your wings will get torn apart by the top 4-5 teams in the country.
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 01, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
So according to Dufflelking Armagh only need three defenders. Well done, that will take care of teams that only have three attackers. Of course it would need those opposition teams to be awful decent and play their only three decent attackers at CHF for McKeever to mark, Full Forward for Donaghy to mark and one in the corner for Mallon to Mark. I'm sure the rest of the county managers will have no problem accommodating you on this one.
God forbid they may actually put of a strong half forward line like Coulter-Clarke-Hughes. That would just be unfair on poor Donaghy having to waste his time marking the "Weaker" forward Ronan Murtagh who incidentally caught everything on Saturday and scored two points from play against him.
And it would be a disgrace if Cork decided to play a full-forward line of Goulding-O'Connor-Sheehan. Surely one of these boys should be placed at CHF for McKeever to mark, mind you Cork would probably be happy to move Pearse O'Neill in form the right wing to centre just to accommodate McKeever. They wouldn't be so selfish as to have him up against Duffy who is not meant to be defending in Duffleking's system.
Come on now don't be silly. You don't get to choose where the "lesser threats" come from, nor do you get to dictate that the opposition are only allowed to play three good attackers. If you play two non-defensive wing backs then your wings will get torn apart by the top 4-5 teams in the country.
LOL. Football for the remedial class...
To be fair armagh have a decent defence, donaghy would be up there with darren hughes and justin mcmahon as the top full back in ulster. McKeever is a leader and a good defender. Mallon was a great defender, he may be past his best but is still a decent defender.
The problem is not ur defence, u have currently one quality forward and Swift has also the potential to be one. Other than that there is no threat and u dont win games against high quality opposition without a threat. I dont see this as POR fault. He may have many faults but this isnt one of them. U can try all the systems or forward coaches u like but if u dont have the players u dont have them. Armagh would need to find 2 half forwards and 1 full forward to make an all ireland semi final.
Jamie Clarke may be one of them but is largely unproven at the highest level, the derry match aside last year. Ronan Clarke may or may not come back the same player so i wouldnt be relying on him to produce the goods if he ever does come back.
Duffleking - Do you just open your mouth and let any old tosh come out? Do you even consider the nonsense and contradiction that you spout? Here are your own comments in the last week alone:
DK - Anyway - Armagh by 3! - I think you'll find that they never even got three ahead let alone came close to winning by three
DK - We could actually ship you a load of defenders from beyond our panel who would start for down. -Maybe you should keep those defenders for yourself we seemed to do all right on Saturday as our defence conceded less points than yours
DK - Rooney wasn't even in the down team at the start of the championship last year - doh! yes he was and played every game
DK - Gordon is filling a hole at full back for down...we prefer our full backs to be able to tackle and stay with a forward when he turns - Seemed to stay with Stevie okay on Saturday night, only 1 point from play
DK - Thought dan gordon was very impressive - Sorry is that you contradicting yourself?
DK - Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone - ANYONE wow now that's a boast, Now you want to talk about laughable. Better defenders than ANYONE. Sure why don't we just crown you champions already and give you six all-stars as no one has better defenders.
DK - Football for the remedial class... - Lot of remedial comments up there from you DK, don't know your facts, contradicting yourself, making wild boasts, Hugely over optimistic predictions. So I'll make it remedial for you - Down conceded 11 points, Armagh conceded 12 points. Down defenders conceded less than Armagh defenders. Down won.
Boast all you like but you won't change having only one win from three games. I'll just leave you to live in the comfort of your own delusions of grandeur. I'm sure you'll take comfort from having better defenders than ANYONE as you slip into the warmth of the relegation zone.
Last time I checked it was a discussion board... ::)
is there anybody disputing that?
I'll dispute that for the sake of dispution
Duffleking wise yourself up! Armagh have 6 defenders who are average enough. In McKeever they have a guy who has proven to be an excellent man marker at times & a leader among his team but on Saturday night he didnt seem to like being dragged all over the field by Clarke. Mallon got roasted & Donaghy who in your opinion is the best in his position in Ulster got the run around from a guy who couldnt make Downs starting 15 consistently laste year.
Outside of them 3 you have Moriarty who is a ticking time bomb, Duffy who normally is very good but was very poor & Dyas who in my opinion has shown nothing to justify the hype since his return from Oz.
So for a defence as good as you claim them to be they seem pretty average to me.
Down havent got the best defenders in Ireland....we all know that but we have guys playing in there who at the minute are having more good days than bad & that will do for me!!
But then again its probably POR fault these 6 guys arent living up to the tag of having "better defenders than anyone"
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 22, 2011, 01:24:23 PM
There may be a load of chest beating and boasting on this forum over the rest of the week but the fact is that these two sides are of a very close standard and the game will not be easy for either one.
For a man that appeared to be taking a sensible approach at the start of the thread you have been sucked into a chest beating and boasting match yourself.
After some of the lectures being handed out by some of our Down posters you'd swear we got a hiding from you lot. You seem to forget that we overturned the tables last year and I'd refrain from many more lectures until after the 28th of May if I were you.
For all the domination that Down had and for all the faults that Armagh supporters appear to have with their manager, Down did indeed only beat Armagh by a point. I put this down til 2 things;
Armagh will always fight to the end like they did against Dublin last year as they are generally hard to break down and have a great team spirit. I honestly believe if they were not behind their manager this would not be the case.
Secondly Down wastefulness was infuriating and could of cost us the game but hopefully this will improve over the course of the league and we usually improve when the ground gets a bit harder. The pleasing thing is that we have not played well in 3 games and we have 5 points. I just hope we play well at the end of may or we will end up on our holes.
The championship could come down to whether either team have inspirational players in clarke and rodgers back and whether they come back the same players. Armagh put a huge emphasis on the return of clarke and rightly so as he is a class player but dont underestimate the influence of rodgers for down not only as a midfielder but as a leader.
For all the bragging and boasting, the match at the Athletic grounds will be skintight with it going right to the wire, the atmosphere under the lights will be electric and it could prove to be the game of the championship. I cant wait!!!!
Quote from: mackers on March 01, 2011, 06:35:03 PM
Quote from: PAULD123 on February 22, 2011, 01:24:23 PM
There may be a load of chest beating and boasting on this forum over the rest of the week but the fact is that these two sides are of a very close standard and the game will not be easy for either one.
For a man that appeared to be taking a sensible approach at the start of the thread you have been sucked into a chest beating and boasting match yourself.
After some of the lectures being handed out by some of our Down posters you'd swear we got a hiding from you lot. You seem to forget that we overturned the tables last year and I'd refrain from many more lectures until after the 28th of May if I were you.
l
Mackers, I stand by my previous posts. I don't think I've been doing chest beating. The main thread of my argument is that Down have an average defence and Armagh do too. That was my opinion in my pre-match posts and is the same now. Down played far better football but Armagh dug in and fought for the game. It was tight like I said it would be.
The only lecture I was giving was that Armagh's defence is not that much better than ours and that our defenders are not "Laughably bad". I have never said our's is great or better than "Anyone".
My comments may have been harsh on Duffleking but he made some very arrogant remarks to me accusing me of being newsround to his newsnight and accusing me of being remedial. he said the stupid comments I only quoted them back.
But I predicted a tight game, it was a tight game. Before the game I said I thought the teams were of simliar skill levels but now I know we are better. However Armagh will have better forwards by Suummer and will never give up. And even if we are better we are not fantastically better. I am satisfied we are a bit better. But who knows it is a long time till summer things could change. After saturday I don't feel it is chest beating to say that I would be confident of a Down win in May because I will also say I still think it will be tight and I wouldn't expect to win by more than a couple of points
The lord jaysus.
You are making my point for me chap.
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 01, 2011, 11:48:42 PM
The lord jaysus.
You are making my point for me chap.
More complete tosh from you DK, do you never learn. So I'm making your point for you that Down's average defence is no worse than Armagh's is that so?
DK - McKernan and Gordan are laughably bad defenders
DK - We could actually ship you a load of defenders from beyond our panel who would start for down.
DK - Gordon is filling a hole at full back for down...we prefer our full backs to be able to tackle and stay with a forward when he turns
DK - Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone Exactly how is that you making the point that your defence is no better than ours? Once again you don't even think before you write something. Everyone can see that you have continually made idle boasts and unsubstantiated claims that Down's defence is "Laughbly bad" while Armagh's is "Better than Anyone". Catch a grip you look like a fool more and more with each post. Best you go away and hide, come back in May when the dust has settled and people have forgotten your ridiculous posts (most of which came afer you lost, yes LOST)
match might not be on the saturday now, i see the armagh PRO (Jordan is it?) is talking of having it moved due to a band parade in Markethill that night and says it could cause a lot of trouble especially on the return journey after the game... It was in the paper on Monday there
Simple terms:
Armagh have better individual defenders than most.
They are not playing / defending as a unit
Some of them are worryingly out of form
Down's mediocre defence outperforming them (they didn't really given they had much less threat to deal with but we'll keep it simple for you) is evidence enough of how poorly they are playing.
The lack of confidence, performance and unity is the management's responsibility given the ability in that defence.
For all the bragging and boasting, the match at the Athletic grounds will be skintight with it going right to the wire, the atmosphere under the lights will be electric and it could prove to be the game of the championship. I cant wait!!!!
I would hardly think the lights will be on on the 28th May( however good points made )
Duffleking or PaulD do you's have any work to do?? ::)
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on March 02, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Duffleking or PaulD do you's have any work to do?? ::)
Certainly haven't time to be reading other counties' threads...
Quote from: DuffleKing on March 02, 2011, 02:29:19 PM
Quote from: Radda bout yeee on March 02, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Duffleking or PaulD do you's have any work to do?? ::)
Certainly haven't time to be reading other counties' threads...
Touche! lol
Quote from: Banana Man on March 02, 2011, 09:02:06 AM
match might not be on the saturday now, i see the armagh PRO (Jordan is it?) is talking of having it moved due to a band parade in Markethill that night and says it could cause a lot of trouble especially on the return journey after the game... It was in the paper on Monday there
I hope it is changed, I have a wedding that day
Duffleking you talk some absolute tripe!!
Make your mind up will you?? Armagh have better defenders than most?? Yet before it was Armagh had the 6 best defenders in the Country??
Your claims have no substance as an argument!! I hope you arent basing your point on the fact that Armagh for the past 4/5 years have played a system were their 2 wing fowards are basically extra defenders who do very little in terms of attacking play??
I can see were duffleking is coming from but to call them "the 6 best defenders in the country" is laughable. The majority of armaghs 6 defenders against down have quality and credentials and have shown that at the top stage!
mallon, mc keever, duffy, moriarty all ireland u21 winners.
Donaghy ireland aussie rules team
Dyas, drafted to the afl
To say that these players are not of the highest standard is laughable, time may be needed for them to adapt and gel together!
Quote from: guevara on March 02, 2011, 08:46:04 PM
Make your mind up will you?? Armagh have better defenders than most?? Yet before it was Armagh had the 6 best defenders in the Country??
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on March 02, 2011, 10:51:30 PM
I can see were duffleking is coming from but to call them "the 6 best defenders in the country" is laughable.
When one of you clowns find the quote from me saying that I'll revise my opinion of you
Quote from: DuffleKing on February 28, 2011, 11:33:02 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2011, 10:35:55 PM
Forwards coach now?
People are losing the plot.
Armagh have 3 county standard forwards. One is injured and may never be seen again. One is on club duty. That leaves just one.
That's not POR's fault. You can't make average players into county forwards no matter what you do with them.
Some of our orchard brethren need to wake up and smell the apples. You could get Mick O Dwyer and Mickey Harte in charge of this Armagh team, and allow them to spend hundreds of thousands on coaches, physios, and everything else - and they still wouldn't get past an AI semi final. The players aren't there. But even despite POR, they could make a quarter final this year.
Get realistic chaps.
Wobbler that's a very lazy analysis for a normally insightful poster.
Armagh have the players. they have better defenders than anyone and they have forwards with the potential to be very potent. they are not organised and they have no gameplan. If they were they would comfortably be a top 8 team - this year.
POR has regressed a lot of players individually and lessened the worth of the sum of the parts. this team were ulster champions in 2008, dealing comfortably with this down team.
As they say in tennis,
new balls please
I'll take that as a no then you idiot
You did say roughly the same thing DuffleKing - the rest is just being pedantic....
Leave it lads....the fella isnt gonna admit he was wrong or the fact that he talks absolute dung!
As I said if your gonna make claims like you do back them up with facts not your personal opinion .....