I was reading a report in one of Sunday's Papers about the Tipp County Secretary talked about the fact that clubs Nationwide spent about €30m on outside Managers last year.
Think of all the uses that money could have been put to rather than lining the pockets of chancers.
32 x 30 x 120 x 3 x 52
32 x 30 x 120 x sum(2+1) x 52(ave close season + championship season)
I don't think there's 30 managers getting paid in many counties, not from my experience anyway and they are certainly not getting paid for 52 weeks of the year, maybe half that. Anyway i don't think it's a case of if we weren't paying that we'd have all the money to invest in more 'worthy' things. And the other point worth noting is that mangers are getting paid because (in part) there is an unwillingness on the part of club members to do the job.
That seems woefully high to me. Of the twelve clubs in the Offaly SFC last year, there are only two clubs where I know the manager was getting paid, there are four clubs where I wouldn't say with any huge degree of confidence but I would guess one paid and three not if forced to, while in the other six clubs, I'd be amazed if any of the managers took anything. I know of two that I can say with absolute certainty that there was no money involved and in the other four, three of those were being managed a club stalwart, so it would be highly unlikely.
Worst case scenario, six clubs paid a manager anything meaningful - and that's in the senior championship. Three or four in intermediate and at most a couple of junior teams would be the absolute height of it - and if any junior B or junior C teams bothered to pay their managers, well then there's no hope for any of us.
Of course that's anecdotal and I realise that things are a lot different in Dublin or in Ulster, but even so I think those numbers are very fanciful.
No manager being paid at our club
Quote from: Zulu on February 03, 2010, 12:28:58 AM
I don't think there's 30 managers getting paid in many counties, not from my experience anyway and they are certainly not getting paid for 52 weeks of the year, maybe half that. Anyway i don't think it's a case of if we weren't paying that we'd have all the money to invest in more 'worthy' things. And the other point worth noting is that mangers are getting paid because (in part) there is an unwillingness on the part of club members to do the job.
Sorry short and sweet on the blackberry last night, what I'm saying is even worst worst case is less than €20m. I'd say the good people of this board could come up with a much more accurate figure starting with the number of clubs with outside managers in each county as a reference point.
I reckon 25 in Down
Quote from: passedit on February 03, 2010, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: Zulu on February 03, 2010, 12:28:58 AM
I don't think there's 30 managers getting paid in many counties, not from my experience anyway and they are certainly not getting paid for 52 weeks of the year, maybe half that. Anyway i don't think it's a case of if we weren't paying that we'd have all the money to invest in more 'worthy' things. And the other point worth noting is that mangers are getting paid because (in part) there is an unwillingness on the part of club members to do the job.
Sorry short and sweet on the blackberry last night, what I'm saying is even worst worst case is less than €20m. I'd say the good people of this board could come up with a much more accurate figure starting with the number of clubs with outside managers in each county as a reference point.
I reckon 25 in Down
It is more prevalent at lower level clubs than people realise. In the divison I play in Cork (Junior A football) I know of 3 clubs that are paying in excess of €70 a night 3 times a week. Our own club have a junior B hurling team and for 2 years paid a man €65 twice a week from February to probably August/September. The same man was coaching a camogie team and getting the same and coaching his own club team for free. He was out every night and picking up in the region of €250 a week in his hand, for junior B and camogie!!!!! I have no issue so long as there is transparency but there should be some level of control of it as there is no way a junior B side should be paying that sort of money for a coach.
It is a serious issue and even if the figures are a small bit inflated, even €10m would be excessive. Remember this is income free gratis and not a red cent ofd tax paid on it. I think that Tipperary have the right idea as do Armagh with McGurn. Make it clear and open and at least that way things can be monitored and assessed to ensure that clubs/teams are getting their money's worth.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 02, 2010, 09:06:52 PM
I was reading a report in one of Sunday's Papers about the Tipp County Secretary talked about the fact that clubs Nationwide spent about €30m on outside Managers last year.
Think of all the uses that money could have been put to rather than lining the pockets of chancers.
Bullshit sensationalist shite from an English paper
There are at least 2500 clubs (some of them with loads of teams ) so at an average €10,000 per club = €25m.
One bucko I know had a rate of 300 Ir Pounds a week back in 2001
So €380 upgraded to 2009 levels = €500 x 40 weeks = € 20,000.
It was a Tipp GAA man who uttered the "Bullshit sensationalist shite from an Englissh Paper".
Maybe you dont like the facts getting in the way of your prejudices ;)
what does it matter whether it's 3mil or 30mil,it's a massive amount of money.id imagine it's round 15mil.2500 clubs,lets say half pay managers=1250.100 a training session,twice a week for 30 weeks=6000.1250x6000=7.5mil.surely half the clubs pay managers,most of them will be getting at least 100 a night,at least two sessions a week,and i cant imagine any club would train less than 30 weeks in the year.
at least 2 out of 3 clubs in Tyrone are paying.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 03, 2010, 06:21:56 PM
There are at least 2500 clubs (some of them with loads of teams ) so at an average €10,000 per club = €25m.
One bucko I know had a rate of 300 Ir Pounds a week back in 2001
So €380 upgraded to 2009 levels = €500 x 40 weeks = € 20,000.
It was a Tipp GAA man who uttered the "Bullshit sensationalist shite from an Englissh Paper".
Maybe you dont like the facts getting in the way of your prejudices ;)
There are 47 GAA clubs in Mayo. About 3-4 (max) are paying managers and bringing in help from outside their own club.
Wake up and dont believe everything you read in a rag like that.
Its nothing to do with any prejudice so dont be so sensitive.
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 04, 2010, 09:37:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 03, 2010, 06:21:56 PM
There are at least 2500 clubs (some of them with loads of teams ) so at an average €10,000 per club = €25m.
One bucko I know had a rate of 300 Ir Pounds a week back in 2001
So €380 upgraded to 2009 levels = €500 x 40 weeks = € 20,000.
It was a Tipp GAA man who uttered the "Bullshit sensationalist shite from an Englissh Paper".
Maybe you dont like the facts getting in the way of your prejudices ;)
There are 47 GAA clubs in Mayo. About 3-4 (max) are paying managers and bringing in help from outside their own club.
Wake up and dont believe everything you read in a rag like that.
Its nothing to do with any prejudice so dont be so sensitive.
Every club that has an outside manager is paying the manager. Junior clubs are paying £100+ a week for managers, clubs in higher divisions who are getting a few hundred people at the gate and maybe have a club bar/social club are paying a lot more.
If you are saying there is only 3-4 clubs in Mayo with outside managers then fair enough, I doubt it though.
Below is Down division 1 for next season. A lot of fairly well know names, it would cost the clubs a few pounds in petrol money to get these managers to training. I could just as easily put up division 3 or 4 and most of names would be outside managers.
Mayobridge - Eamon McEnaney
Kilcoo - Jim McCorry
Bryansford - Pete McGrath
Clonduff - Paul Lambe
Burren - Frank Dawson
Longstone - Jody Gormley
Castlewellan - Liam Hardy?
An Riocht - Stephen Poucher
Liatroim - Jarlath Austin?
Rostrevor - John Rafferty
Quote from: Lone Shark on February 03, 2010, 01:31:01 AM
That seems woefully high to me. Of the twelve clubs in the Offaly SFC last year, there are only two clubs where I know the manager was getting paid,
Well in fairness it is good to see Offaly clubs providing employment to Westmeath men during the recession....
€30 Million - sounds like an unbelievable makey-up figure... So that over € 900,000 per county on average for club managers?! Don't believe that for a second - BS
Quote from: Maiden1 on February 04, 2010, 11:39:38 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on February 04, 2010, 09:37:32 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 03, 2010, 06:21:56 PM
There are at least 2500 clubs (some of them with loads of teams ) so at an average €10,000 per club = €25m.
One bucko I know had a rate of 300 Ir Pounds a week back in 2001
So €380 upgraded to 2009 levels = €500 x 40 weeks = € 20,000.
It was a Tipp GAA man who uttered the "Bullshit sensationalist shite from an Englissh Paper".
Maybe you dont like the facts getting in the way of your prejudices ;)
There are 47 GAA clubs in Mayo. About 3-4 (max) are paying managers and bringing in help from outside their own club.
Wake up and dont believe everything you read in a rag like that.
Its nothing to do with any prejudice so dont be so sensitive.
Every club that has an outside manager is paying the manager. Junior clubs are paying £100+ a week for managers, clubs in higher divisions who are getting a few hundred people at the gate and maybe have a club bar/social club are paying a lot more.
If you are saying there is only 3-4 clubs in Mayo with outside managers then fair enough, I doubt it though.
Below is Down division 1 for next season. A lot of fairly well know names, it would cost the clubs a few pounds in petrol money to get these managers to training. I could just as easily put up division 3 or 4 and most of names would be outside managers.
Mayobridge - Eamon McEnaney
Kilcoo - Jim McCorry
Bryansford - Pete McGrath
Clonduff - Paul Lambe
Burren - Frank Dawson
Longstone - Jody Gormley
Castlewellan - Liam Hardy?
An Riocht - Stephen Poucher
Liatroim - Jarlath Austin?
Rostrevor - John Rafferty
You have completely missed the point. Regardless of "outside managers" there is not many clubs in Mayo paying managers.
outside managers arent getting paid?why are they doing it then,i find it extremely hard to believe that they arent getting paid.
Quote from: Dougal on February 05, 2010, 01:57:02 PM
outside managers arent getting paid?why are they doing it then,i find it extremely hard to believe that they arent getting paid.
Well my club (in Westmeath) has just appointed a new, outside manager. He won't be getting a penny, not even expenses. He has wanted the job for years. Not all managers are mercenaries, although I do accept plenty are.
Quote from: Celt_Man on February 05, 2010, 11:53:26 AM
€30 Million - sounds like an unbelievable makey-up figure... So that over € 900,000 per county on average for club managers?! Don't believe that for a second - BS
Not that unbelievable buck.
30 to 40 clubs per county @ 12500 average ;)
Amazing how some people were f rothing at the mouth about players getting €2 or 3,000 legally ,openly and above board from the Govt yet the first reaction of many of the same to club managers getting buckets of money,illegally, is" Bullshit, crappy paper, English rag?" etc etc
We're some hypocrites in this oul Country alright ;)
I have to agree about Down football
Every "outside" manager in the first and second division that I know of is getting cash. Tax free cash.
Its so prevalent that some of these guys better watch out for the investigation some day :-)
I do not know about Div 3 or 4 but I guess the pattern is the same. All bar two clubs in Division 1 are paying.
Its the greatest shame of modern GAA and it needs to be sorted out
Quote from: Rossfan on February 05, 2010, 05:57:44 PM
Quote from: Celt_Man on February 05, 2010, 11:53:26 AM
€30 Million - sounds like an unbelievable makey-up figure... So that over € 900,000 per county on average for club managers?! Don't believe that for a second - BS
Not that unbelievable buck.
30 to 40 clubs per county @ 12500 average ;)
Amazing how some people were f rothing at the mouth about players getting €2 or 3,000 legally ,openly and above board from the Govt yet the first reaction of many of the same to club managers getting buckets of money,illegally, is" Bullshit, crappy paper, English rag?" etc etc
We're some hypocrites in this oul Country alright ;)
How do you come by that figure.... on average there is probably closer to only 30 to 40 clubs across the 32 counties and they aren't all paying managers... Anyway 12,500 is another made up average figure
Whatever the actual figure it's money that could be put to a lot better use by clubs.
There was a team in the Galway Co Final a few years ago ( Milltown??) whose manager was a Dublin chap living in Dublin who travelled probably 3 times a week for maybe 30 weeks. Legit travel in that ridiculous case nearly 400 per week and then the rest.
Madness.
One clubeen near me dispensed with all outsiders last year, got some of their own to manage and take training etc and they did as good( not very well) as they had with the mercenary imports.
At least the recession might bring this daft era to an end.
QuoteThe most telling stat is the number of outside managers who have had success at All Ireland level with counties. Very very few.
That's not a telling stat at all, in fact it is a bogus stat that means nothing. The strongest counties like Kerry, Cork, Kilkenny (hurling, obviously) and more recently Tyrone don't need to go for outside managers. Most of the counties that go for outside managers have little chance of winning AI's, they'd be outside bets at best. In every walk of life some people excel, so it is no surprise that counties/clubs want to get those who are good coaches or managers to take their team, no more than producing excellent players, producing excellent coaches or managers isn't easy. The problem is clubs don't really vet the coaches/managers properly and end up paying some chancer a lot of money without getting the quality in return.
Did anybody else read the Gaelic Life today......Ciaran Woods says in an article that one club manager in Ulster has asked for £20,000 fee for the year upfront.... ::) I know what I would tell the greedy b**tard >:(
Big problem now imo is club members are unwilling (understandably enough) to take on a 1st team when the previous incumbents were paid.
I know for a fact my club do not pay any managers nor will they as they don't have it, i believe the money side of things are starting to get less and less and from what i can see around our town less and less clubs are paying managers but it still goes on alright...
It's widespread in Dublin and I know of two clubs in Kildare also doing it.
I could probably name a dozen clubs in Kildare where the manager gets paid.
It wouldn't take a genius to work out which clubs in Kildare either.
We don't pay. i never got a cent and my season as a manager lasted over 60 weeks! some managers have been paid in the past, but it was travel money, it was paid by a wealthy member and not the club. We have no money. I'm sure some junior clubs in Belfast are paying
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2011, 10:02:04 AM
We don't pay. i never got a cent and my season as a manager lasted over 60 weeks! some managers have been paid in the past, but it was travel money, it was paid by a wealthy member and not the club. We have no money. I'm sure some junior clubs in Belfast are paying
Are you LH?
No. was hurling manager
Sure noonw would expect even expenses from their own club?
We are a senior club in Cavan (by no means in the top 4-5 club teams) and payed our last manager (local guy from nearby club) 15,000 Euro for the year, a ridiculous amount in my opinion for a small club. Absolutely no travel expenses would have been required. It really is like having a decent 2nd wage.