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(http://www.derekcronin.com/misc/donoghue.jpg)


Made me laugh. There is a facebook group which started this morning trying to get enough members joined to force him to resign.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=146748563594&ref=mf

Leave poor old John alone- Shure isn't he a great lad

Time for poor old john to resign. This kind of thing is common place and there is a culture of taking advantages of expenses but this lad has gone completly over board. I could understand *some* of his expenses when he was Minister for tourism but his expense bills as Ceann Comhairle which seem to match up with race meetings is prettly shocking.

Quote from: Declan on October 06, 2009, 11:39:31 AM
Leave poor old John alone- Shure isn't he a great lad

.....as were the financial regulator, the chief exec's/chairmen of aib/boi/anglo , the FAS top execs and HSE top people .....or so the state executioners think - nothing has or will be done about them
yet we have bank bailouts and now nama that are costing a fecking fortune - enough to keep us afloat and generate a kick start to the economy and stop people losing houses - butthe taxpayer is the last rung on the food chain !
>:(

I think he's toast. When you're setting up meetings to "make detailed proposals", you're trying to put off the inevitable.

He'll probably try to buy himself some time for another week. If the Greens pull the plug at the weekend then he's guaranteed another stint as Ceann Comhairle.

Healy-Rae, Tom Sheahan and Cosaí MacGearailt in Kerry South will be pushing hardest for his resignation because South Kerry will essentially become a 2 seater constituency at the next General Election because O'Donoghue gets automatically re-elected. The sad reality of parish-pump politics in Ireland is that O'Donoghue would more than likely top the poll next time round in Kerry South if he does resign or is pushed now.

So why are the opposition parties not baying for his resignation? Looks like they've all been at it.

QuoteSo why are the opposition parties not baying for his resignation? Looks like they've all been at it.

Exactly Donagh - Remember their willingness to discuss reform of the unvouched expenses system!!!

John like FF are survivors - he'll stay his ground I'd say. Sure didn't he fly up from Kerry yesterday again ?  ;)

I wonder if he is in a position to pay them back? :-X

He'll be gone with 24 hours.

Can't believe he hasn't gone yet. The man hasn't a shred of decency. I enjoyed his humiliation today in the Dáil. Sure he can get a free pint and a taxi from Shamrock Rovers any time, he'll be sound.

Yer being awful hard on poor auld John. Sure only last week me and Mrs Slasher went to town and bought curtains for the living room for €15,000 and they were so big we had to hire a stretch limo to bring us home. Mrs Slasher was so tired by the whole trip we had to go to the wellness spa in inchydoney to chill out for a week.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 06, 2009, 10:34:12 PM
Yer being awful hard on poor auld John. Sure only last week me and Mrs Slasher went to town and bought curtains for the living room for €15,000 and they were so big we had to hire a stretch limo to bring us home. Mrs Slasher was so tired by the whole trip we had to go to the wellness spa in inchydoney to chill out for a week.

I hope you kept receipts for everything? Was it your brother's limo firm and he charged you 10 grand for the week as opposed to the going rate of 2 grand? Sure as long as you've kept the receipt ;)

He has resigned, effective from next week.

Proper order that he has resigned

It was weird watching him chair a debate in the Dail about his own future....Mr Gilmore....Taoiseach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOxxiXXiM7I

A bit like Michael Martin in The House of Commons, when Douglas Carswell put down a motion expressing no confidence in the Speaker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o7m3HUZ8UE

O Donoghue is just the tip of a very big Ice-Berg

Keeping his seat, very nice of him to fall on his butter knife . ::)

He'll only keep his seat if the if there is an election called while he is still ceann comhairle. Unlikeley I'd say. But it does scupper the long term plan to oust jackie healey ray.

Quote from: no mo do yakamo on October 07, 2009, 07:26:57 AM
He'll only keep his seat if the if there is an election called while he is still ceann comhairle. Unlikeley I'd say. But it does scupper the long term plan to oust jackie healey ray.

I think Gnevin is saying that he will remain a TD is falling on a butter knife. If he is unfit for office then he is unfit for office and should resign from the public purse.


It looked to me the FF, FG, GN & Lab seemed to have it all nicely worked out. Cowen was surprised at what went on. He was expecting it all to go according to their cozy wee plan untill SF called for him to resign putting the pressure on Gilmore who broke ranks and stabbed Kenny in the back. Poor Enda dropped the ball on this one.

Fair fecks to Gilmore. It was what the people wanted, and he delivered it.

Is it true O'Donoghue loses his automatic re-election?

I'm sure there are a lot of nervous TDs wondering if they'll be next to be investigated...

Quote from: Hound on October 07, 2009, 09:18:57 AM
Is it true O'Donoghue loses his automatic re-election?.

Not if he lasts until next week and the Greens bring down the Government at the weekend, if he goes this week he loses it (hence his offer to resign next week).

Those pesky Shinners again. I think Zapista has it spot on.

Now, I J H Rae will be generous towards his colleague and offer him a lift to Cahircveen seeing as the aud wheels and airplanes are no longer freebies!

Quote from: Hound on October 07, 2009, 09:18:57 AM
Fair fecks to Gilmore. It was what the people wanted, and he delivered it.

Problem is, the people don't always know what they want. Right now there is a public mood which seems to be wanting heads on spikes, but that's no use to us. Now I don't know what Enda Kenny was thinking, but it is possible that he could have been waiting for JOD to go to the oireachteas committee meeting today and hopefully dig the hole even further, or even having him still in place by the weekend, when the Green Party meet. His very presence would have been a lightning rod for the Greens and could have been the extra push that might have made them give up on Fianna Fáil.

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

with the taxpayer getting raped time and time again down mexico way with the most outrageous bailouts, expenses and corruption its plain a lot of these boys deserve jail time.

and ye mexicans just bend over and continue to take it up the ass  :o

can the mexicans do better than moral indignation or are yis just a bunch of patsys?  :o

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 07, 2009, 09:31:14 AM

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

Didnt see Stiglitz, but know he's against Obamas recovery initiatives as he deems them to be too pro-banker.

Did he give an alternative plan or just have a go at NAMA? Who's to say he's right rather than the economists who think NAMA is the best way forward? Nobody actually knows what to do, and only a few have come up with workable theories. NAMA could work out well, mightnt cost the taxpayer a penny - or it could be a total disaster that bankrupts us.

I'd like to see FG in government, but who's to say they'd implement a plan similar to Stiglitz (if he had a plan and it was a good one) rather than their own plan, which personally I think is worse than NAMA. As I said its not as if any of the politicians on any side know what the answer is.

FG didn't call for O'Donoghue's head as they'd lose a number when it came to voting in the Dáil debates.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 07, 2009, 09:48:27 AM
FG didn't call for O'Donoghue's head as they'd lose a number when it came to voting in the Dáil debates.

But surely that was just burying their heads in the sand Farrandeelin, and pretending that the inevitable wasn't actually inevitable? Besides the fact that it's not an absolute certainty that a replacement Ceann Comhairle will come from their ranks. They fcuked up, bigtime.

There all a pile of thieving bastards.

I think the whole episode has highlighted that Kenny simply is'nt a credible alternative as Taiosaich. He was caught sleeping again & totally outmanouvered by Gilmore. I think the fact is none of the opposition want a general election until the mid-end next year. The general consensus is Fianna Fail are dead men walking, but it makes sense for them to make the hard decisions for cuts etc... as they'll be going anyway....

I have to say Cowen has to be the worst Taisaich in living memory, he seems to be in hiding & totally incapable of leading or stamping any authority on anything. Suprising as i felt when he got in he would be great. Lenihan will be the next leader of FF.

Quote from: Hound on October 07, 2009, 09:47:15 AM

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 07, 2009, 09:31:14 AM

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

Didnt see Stiglitz, but know he's against Obamas recovery initiatives as he deems them to be too pro-banker.

Did he give an alternative plan or just have a go at NAMA? Who's to say he's right rather than the economists who think NAMA is the best way forward? Nobody actually knows what to do, and only a few have come up with workable theories. NAMA could work out well, mightnt cost the taxpayer a penny - or it could be a total disaster that bankrupts us.

I'd like to see FG in government, but who's to say they'd implement a plan similar to Stiglitz (if he had a plan and it was a good one) rather than their own plan, which personally I think is worse than NAMA. As I said its not as if any of the politicians on any side know what the answer is.

I agree with LoneShark on this. Actually saw that guy on Prime time and he said it was utter rubbish to suggest the whole financial system would collapse if the government didn't intervene. He said that the market would adjust and renew and we shouldn't fall for another cycle of bankers raping the taxpayer. Seemed like sense to me.

Stopping NAMA is the most important thing and the Greens are our only hope. God help us.

you get what you vote for, heard the Kerry people interviewed on the radio this morning and they reckon that O Donoghue is a lovely man and sure they are all at it up there in Dublin, why pick on O Donoghue.

Quote from: BerfArmagh on October 07, 2009, 11:07:08 AM
I think the whole episode has highlighted that Kenny simply is'nt a credible alternative as Taiosaich. He was caught sleeping again & totally outmanouvered by Gilmore. I think the fact is none of the opposition want a general election until the mid-end next year. The general consensus is Fianna Fail are dead men walking, but it makes sense for them to make the hard decisions for cuts etc... as they'll be going anyway....

I have to say Cowen has to be the worst Taisaich in living memory, he seems to be in hiding & totally incapable of leading or stamping any authority on anything. Suprising as i felt when he got in he would be great. Lenihan will be the next leader of FF.

Cowen is bad enough - Having Kenny as Taoiseah would be disaster of all disasters.

The country is in a shambles and FG don't want an election until all the cuts / snips are made just so as they don't have to get theirs hands dirty.

You know im out of the country but Im raging at this fella. I read the independant online everyday, and today it states this fella, claimed 1 POUND in expenses paid to Unicef as a donation on his part from checking out of hotel. The cheek of that is unreal. Its just shows you they dont give a fck about us not a fck.

I lived in Dubai for a while and your one Mary Coughlan came over, her expenses says she stayed in 800EURO night hotel, now Dubai is rich but 800 EURO your talking 7 stars, Burj Al Arab ffs, loads of normal hotels are 5 star and 120EURO a night. Her excuse at the time was "I brought back 40 million euro worth of investment" Ya you did it. ::)...

Dont expect their consitituate to be up in arms either, when I lived in Letterkenny despite all the stuff mcdaid got up to it was ignored as he spent loads of money in North Donegal as Sports minister.

The reason none of the opposition shout to loudly is because if they get looked at aswell you see they been on the gravy train,

The MAIN PROBLEM is the parameters for expenses, and the enforcing of those parameters. It should be reviewed by a private company and enforced by a private co. Once its inhouse with civil servants not much transparency there. The ELECTORATE  cant fcking tolerate this. Why are we so quiet? Why isnt there CIVIL UNREST? If this was France there would be. If you lose your house, etc...... people have to fight this disease and make these fckers walk the plank. There laughing at us with all there entitlements and pensions and bringing the country to its toes and they dont give a fck.

In the private sector you get a bonus when perform well and feck all at that, Why is it in the Public sector gross bad performance gets you a 1m euro bonus across all sectors? Why is bad performance rewarded, who was responsible for writing the contracts with golden handshakes? Why is that tolerated by the ELECTORATE?

These fckers are getting away with murder. Rant over.

Quote from: orangeman on October 07, 2009, 11:28:57 AM

Cowen is bad enough - Having Kenny as Taoiseah would be disaster of all disasters.

Unless the Greens pull the pin on NAMA Kenny won't be Taoiseah. If the Greens alllow Government to continue Kenny won't lead FG to the next election.

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/bazalini/John1-1.jpg)

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/bazalini/John2.jpg)

(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/bazalini/34562291-1.jpg)

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 07, 2009, 11:11:42 AM

Quote from: Hound on October 07, 2009, 09:47:15 AM

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 07, 2009, 09:31:14 AM

Anyone who was watching Joseph Stiglitz on Prime Time last night should be fairly sure by now, if they weren't already, that it's bringing down the government before NAMA is implemented which should be the highest priority for the people of this state. Of course it's hard to see that for all the bloodlust.

Didnt see Stiglitz, but know he's against Obamas recovery initiatives as he deems them to be too pro-banker.

Did he give an alternative plan or just have a go at NAMA? Who's to say he's right rather than the economists who think NAMA is the best way forward? Nobody actually knows what to do, and only a few have come up with workable theories. NAMA could work out well, mightnt cost the taxpayer a penny - or it could be a total disaster that bankrupts us.

I'd like to see FG in government, but who's to say they'd implement a plan similar to Stiglitz (if he had a plan and it was a good one) rather than their own plan, which personally I think is worse than NAMA. As I said its not as if any of the politicians on any side know what the answer is.

I agree with LoneShark on this. Actually saw that guy on Prime time and he said it was utter rubbish to suggest the whole financial system would collapse if the government didn't intervene. He said that the market would adjust and renew and we shouldn't fall for another cycle of bankers raping the taxpayer. Seemed like sense to me.

Stopping NAMA is the most important thing and the Greens are our only hope. God help us.

An intervention of the Greens wouldnt stop NAMA, would it? Would just mean a different version implemented by FG/Lab?

To my knowledge not one Irish economist (never mind Irish politician) has said that we should no nothing and the market will fix everything.

From the moment the financial crisis took hold it has seemed that "everybody" (whether it be the media, the "man on the street" or internet warriors like us) has been screaming at the government - "do something, do anything". Its near impossible to run a business of any size without access to bank funds, the banks almost completely stopped lending and thus we're into a seemingly never ending cycle of things getting worse and worse.

FF, FG and Labour all came up with different plans, all of which contain some pain - as any such plan would.

Now suddenly we've an expert saying "Do nothing - the market will look after everything".

It might be the best idea, I've no clue. But I do know if the government had decided on that plan, there would be a plethora of experts on Prime Time saying that doing nothing means no activity will take place means a deeper and longer lasting recession.

There's no easy way out of this mess, and I don't know if its true that FG don't want an election, but I wouldnt blame them. Kenny's not the man to lead us out of recession, but I havent heard any rumblings of a FG leadership contest (maybe Zap has?).

But everybody needs to accept some pain. Its all very well everyone saying the government has to have the bottle to take the hard decisions - but then as quick as a significant cut is made, there's uproar - "you can't cut that, its too important".

Gilmore got cornered on RTE this morning, got caught off guard, took a battering to which his responses were incoherent mumbles. I was left in serious doubt about his integrity on these matters.
The question related to that all this time he has had a party member (Pat Rabbitte? on the committee that reviews O'Donoghue's expenses,
why were these expenses not flagged?
did Rabbitte not consult with him about these outrageous claims?

did anyone hear thye bauld paidi o'se on newstalk earlier. he was saying that as a statesman o'donoghue was hardly expected to go and stay in 3 star hotels, he has done so much for ireland, he is a great man, he was in my pub once and blah blah blah. oh yea he also put paidi on the failte ireland board, which was nice.
paidi would be a fan of the aul expenses same as his FF brother it must be said.

Hound - one of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again. That's well accepted except by Lenihan who says they will becasue they told him they would. Listening to the bankers has served us well hasn't it.  ::)

On another of your points I don't think many people would mind a bit of pain if they thought it would solve the problems. Thing is practically everyone knows the idiots incompetents (they're not idiots, just unfit for purpose bar lining their own pockets) we have in charge have no clue what to do and are taking no pain themselves (I do not accept that a pay cut when you are spending none of your wages is pain).

Finally to say Kenny isn't the man to lead us out of the recession might be true but Cowen definitely isn't (unless a batten down the hatches and hope Obama sorts it out approach can be described as leadership). Kenny has lots of faults and I wouldn't necessarily have much faith in him but at least I get the impression he has one or two bright people around him.

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 07, 2009, 02:32:20 PM
Hound - one of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again. That's well accepted except by Lenihan who says they will becasue they told him they would. Listening to the bankers has served us well hasn't it.  ::)

I spoke to lenihan recently and he said that his main problem at the moment was to try and make the banks start lending again - that it would def keep heads above water and maybe kickstart things.

I'd have thought that after all the bailout and promises that we could have insisted that the fcukers did start lending- or at least the gov bank (anglo) would do this.
Unfortunately I only thought of saying this to him afterwards ! :(

there are only two of the current crop of politicians that might be good enough as taoiseach - richard bruton or dermot ahearn - with either micheal martin or gilmore at a stretch.
How about this dark horse - a returning charlie mccreevy to charge in on his white horse and provide the cut throat leadership that the country needs.
We dont need more of the same and self gratification and embezzlement thats been going on.

I also think things would rectify themselves, however it would take longer- as nama is merely a publicity stunt (an expensive one) - but doing nothing would make people clam up for a longer period and we wouldnt have the 'green shoots' that are currently being seen out there at the moment (imo from what I have witnessed in recent weeks )

Quoteone of the many major flaws with NAMA is that it won't necessarily start banks lending again

That too is my major issue with NAMA.
20% of NAMAs total bill is been used to bail out Irish Nationwide
8billion to prop up a bank who dont lend to SME's will do nothing to kickstart the economy.

From the Irish Times:


                        ***************************************************

State 'squandering' money - Stiglitz

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz said the Government is "squandering" public money with its plan to establish the National Assets Management Agency (Nama).

Minister for Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said last month the Government will spend €54 billion buying up loans with a face value of €77 billion. The current market value of the loans is some €47 billion.

The €7 billion difference takes into account the properties' "long-term economic value", Mr Lenihan said.

"The Irish Government is squandering large amounts of money to bail out banks," Mr Stiglitz said at conference in Dublin today. "There's a sort of a view that there's no alternative."

That view is "nonsense", Mr Stiglitz said. "The rule of capitalism says that when firms can't pay what they owe, they go bankrupt."

"It's a massive transfer of money from the public to bankers," he said today.

Mr Stiglitz, a professor at Columbia University in New York, told RTÉ's Prime Time last night that overpaying for the loans was "criminal".

Fine Gael finance spokesman Richard Bruton welcomed the intervention of Prof Stiglitz.

"Together with George Soros, Professor Stiglitz is one of the prominent advocates of Fine Gael's 'good bank' solution to fixing the banks. He joins financier Dermot Desmond, commentator David McWilliams, and Michael O'Sullivan of Credit Suisse Private Bank, among others," Mr Bruton said.

"The approach outlined by Professor Stiglitz leaves the risk and responsibility for working out toxic developer loans with the bankers who made them, and the investors who funded them, while also ensuring that a cleansed and healthy banking system is ready to restart lending.

"There is still an opportunity to ditch the massive Nama gamble and adopt Fine Gael's safer and more effective solution to fixing the banks by setting up a National Recovery Bank," Mr Bruton added.

                        ***************************************************


The €47BN is pure fantasy, never mind the €54BN, which is insult on injury -- perhaps €40BN would have been a more realistic valuation of the current value of those loans (especially with the Carroll judgement of yesterday), or even lower. And that's the problem, the whole fecking thing is guesswork with NAMA, with the taxpayer carrying the risk, as if there hasn't been enough state-sponsored gambling already.

Quotedermot ahearn - with either micheal martin or gilmore at a stretch.
How about this dark horse - a returning charlie mccreevy to charge in on his white horse and provide the cut throat leadership that the country needs.

Stop smoking that funny stuff LB it'll only damage you!!

Quote from: Declan on October 07, 2009, 04:44:46 PM

Quotedermot ahearn - with either micheal martin or gilmore at a stretch.
How about this dark horse - a returning charlie mccreevy to charge in on his white horse and provide the cut throat leadership that the country needs.

Stop smoking that funny stuff LB it'll only damage you!!

:D
goes to show - theres not a whole lot of choice or talent out there !

Listening to the honest citizens of Kerry eulogise and defend O Donoghue, makes one wonder if there is any sense of decency or morality left in the Country. There seemed to be a concensus that it was unfair to take their Pigs Nose out of the trough, but no realisation that the trough itself was immoral and indefensible. Lenihans proposed reforms our merely an attempt to head off further probes, cover up what has been happening for decades, but will eventually effect little change.  It would be interesting, would it not, to see the expense accounts of the six figure salaried Union leaders who are currently waxing so indignantly. Hypocrisy thy name is Ireland

Quote from: Pangurban on October 07, 2009, 08:01:58 PM
Listening to the honest citizens of Kerry eulogise and defend O Donoghue,

I would seriously doubt they were a reflection of the majoity in South Kerry. Those speaking in defence of junket john are of little importance. It's when the leader of the Country tries to defend him you need to worry. We have all been there before though. with the defence of Ahern.

Quote from: Pangurban on October 07, 2009, 08:01:58 PM
Listening to the honest citizens of Kerry eulogise and defend O Donoghue, makes one wonder if there is any sense of decency or morality left in the Country. There seemed to be a concensus that it was unfair to take their Pigs Nose out of the trough, but no realisation that the trough itself was immoral and indefensible. Lenihans proposed reforms our merely an attempt to head off further probes, cover up what has been happening for decades, but will eventually effect little change.  It would be interesting, would it not, to see the expense accounts of the six figure salaried Union leaders who are currently waxing so indignantly. Hypocrisy thy name is Ireland

Why are you surprised. The people of Kerry vote in a complete buffon like Healy Rae who is nothing like what a national politician should be but an inward looking clown. Michael Lowry romped home as an independent after getting the boot out of FG, Beverly Cooper flynn in Mayo walked in too and even after she dumped the hospital lobby in Castlebar when she rejoined FF she will still get voted in again "cos daddy got the road into castlebar".

I don't know if it is an Irish thing to pick a foreign soccer team and support them to the death no matter what making excuses for every unacceptable thing they do even though there is no real relationship between the person and the team. It seems to me the same is true in politics, you back your man and you stick with it no matter what. If he is a gangster you rationalise that he's not as bad as some other bucko somewhere (as long as he throws a few crumbs your way). It is pretty pathetic and personally it depresses me to see people defend those that have no respect for the country or the people.

Quote from: mylestheslasher on October 07, 2009, 08:29:51 PM

I don't know if it is an Irish thing to pick a foreign soccer team and support them to the death no matter what making excuses for every unacceptable thing they do even though there is no real relationship between the person and the team. It seems to me the same is true in politics, you back your man and you stick with it no matter what. If he is a gangster you rationalise that he's not as bad as some other bucko somewhere (as long as he throws a few crumbs your way). It is pretty pathetic and personally it depresses me to see people defend those that have no respect for the country or the people.

Where is Lone Shark when you need him?

BTW, LS when the feck are you going to run for public office?

In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 07, 2009, 08:36:21 PM
In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.

That's the type of throw away remark that excuses them.

Two facts and two falsehoods. We are the people they are the Government, we don't live in a democracy and we don't deserve this.

Quote from: Zapatista on October 07, 2009, 08:43:28 PM

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 07, 2009, 08:36:21 PM
In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.

That's the type of throw away remark that excuses them.

Two facts and two falsehoods. We are the people they are the Government, we don't live in a democracy and we don't deserve this.

Where was the concern when the going was good? You couldn't take your noses out of the trough long enough to see what was happening around you. The government were voted to serve the people, by the people. You reap what you sow. If I dig out my book of quotes I could throw out a few more...

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 07, 2009, 08:57:47 PM
Where was the concern when the going was good? You couldn't take your noses out of the trough long enough to see what was happening around you. The government were voted to serve the people, by the people. You reap what you sow. If I dig out my book of quotes I could throw out a few more...

It's like blaming a passenger for being hurt in a car accident when you are unaware the driver is incapable of driving as he assures you you're safe.

FF built their empire on lies and deciet. It's not our fault we were conned it's the con mans.

Quote from: Zapatista on October 07, 2009, 08:23:12 PM

Quote from: Pangurban on October 07, 2009, 08:01:58 PM
Listening to the honest citizens of Kerry eulogise and defend O Donoghue,

I would seriously doubt they were a reflection of the majoity in South Kerry. Those speaking in defence of junket john are of little importance. It's when the leader of the Country tries to defend him you need to worry. We have all been there before though. with the defence of Ahern.

Paidi O Se couldn't have spoke higher about O'Donoghue on Newstalk at lunchtime.
Pathetic really, and he told Ger Gilroy to not interrupt him a number of times as he waxed lyrical about John's love of the simple life and attending the local football games in Cahirciveen.

Yerra , their cute whures down there...

Quote from: whiskeysteve on October 07, 2009, 09:37:42 AM
with the taxpayer getting raped time and time again down mexico way with the most outrageous bailouts, expenses and corruption its plain a lot of these boys deserve jail time.

and ye mexicans just bend over and continue to take it up the ass  :o

can the mexicans do better than moral indignation or are yis just a bunch of patsys?  :o

Easy for youse nordies to sit back and laugh at the rest of Ireland when ye live in a 'fake makey uppey' statelet bankrolled by the english taxpayer. Sure everybody knows that the 6 counties would be fcuked without England. Dont be under any illusions that robinson, McGuinness and co. are not screwing the english taxpayer also. What's going on here is really rotten. As a Kerryman I would never defend O Donoghue. However he may be the only scapegoat. Them dept of Finance guidelines need to be changed for the good of the country.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 07, 2009, 08:36:21 PM
In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve.

Yes but democracy can be a weapon in the wrong hands.

You can always use it to attack minorities and in Ireland at the moment people with cop on seem to be one such minority.

comethekingdom has a point,
O'Donoghues  golden cash cow receipts were sanctioned and examined by an all party committee which included the late convert Gilmore's party.
John is only a particularly bad apple in a rotten pile.

Claiming back the £1 he gave to some 'tin in face' merchant in Scotland took the biscuit.

However he is a "shining icon" in South Kerry.

FFS - where do I sign up for the revolution. I can do the finances!

Surely it's only a matter of time before other Ministers, ex-Ministers etc. get shown up for expense claims as a result of this?

A neccessary can of worms has been opened - wonder who'll be next to walk the plank

Quote from: comethekingdom on October 07, 2009, 09:57:58 PM
Easy for youse nordies to sit back and laugh at the rest of Ireland when ye live in a 'fake makey uppey' statelet bankrolled by the english taxpayer. Sure everybody knows that the 6 counties would be fcuked without England. Dont be under any illusions that robinson, McGuinness and co. are not screwing the english taxpayer also. What's going on here is really rotten. As a Kerryman I would never defend O Donoghue. However he may be the only scapegoat. Them dept of Finance guidelines need to be changed for the good of the country.

You have to be joking?  ::) That you Paidi?

Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 08, 2009, 12:26:06 AM
Claiming back the £1 he gave to some 'tin in face' merchant in Scotland took the biscuit.

Not defending O'Donoghue, as I beleive he deserves everything he got (apart from the payoff), and as for Paudi O'Se, just a sleveen who many Kerry people despise.

But the £1 charity wasnt put into a box, it was automatically added on to a hotel bill (there are some chains of hotels that automatically add on a charity contriubtion unless you specifically request them not to do so), so O'Donoghue would have just handed in the hotel bill when claiming his expenses, which contained the £1 charge among all the other charges. Its fair to say he probably didnt even notice it. There are lots of things to have a go at O'Donoghue about, but the £1 charity is a complete red herring.

Quote from: stephenite on October 08, 2009, 06:23:33 AM
Surely it's only a matter of time before other Ministers, ex-Ministers etc. get shown up for expense claims as a result of this?

A neccessary can of worms has been opened - wonder who'll be next to walk the plank

Is it really walking the plank when you get a bail out and keep your job?



O'Donoghue in line for €112,000 payoff
We've opened a can of worms -- Gormley

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By Michael Brennan Political Correspondent

Thursday October 08 2009

CEANN Comhairle John O'Donoghue will receive a €112,500 'golden parachute' for resigning in the wake of his expenses scandal.

The deposed Speaker of the Dail will be able to claim a salary of €100,000 for serving as a backbench TD. After two years he will be able to also claim an annual ministerial pension of around €25,000 -- rising to €67,000 when he retires from the Dail.

The severance package is designed to compensate Mr O'Donoghue for dropping from a salary of €212,500 as Ceann Comhairle to €100,000 as a TD.

The extent of the generous payoff is certain to fuel further public anger over the deepening politicians' pay controversy.

As it raged yesterday, the Greens said they intended to make the reform of the discredited Dail expenses regime a key plank of the coalition's programme for government negotiations.

However, the party's ministers are being forced to reveal details of their own travel expenses -- despite preaching about transparency since coming to power two years ago.

Ministers John Gormley and Eamon Ryan are only releasing details of their expenses claims after a series of parliamentary questions from opposition TDs and Freedom of Information Act requests from the Irish Independent in the wake of the spending scandal.

They claimed last night that they were voluntarily preparing to provide their expenses details in the coming weeks -- but haven't done so to date.

Following the announcement of the Ceann Comhairle's imminent resignation, Mr Gormley yesterday admitted all ministers' expenses would reveal "anomalies and excesses".

He said an overhaul of the system should involve "more openness and transparency".

"I think what we have done here is opened up a can of worms, because quite frankly, if you were to do a trawl of all ministers, admittedly John O'Donoghue is probably in a league of his own, but you will find anomalies and you will find excesses," he said.

The Department of Finance last night confirmed Mr O'Donoghue would be entitled to the severance pay because the office of the Ceann Comhairle is designated as a ministerial office for such purposes.

His spokesman was unable to confirm last night whether Mr O'Donoghue would accept the severance pay, or voluntarily decline it. Fine Gael TD Denis Naughton said the revelations would not make the public feel any happier about the scandal over Mr O'Donoghue's €250,000 expenses bill.

"We're back very much to a situation where the Ceann Comhairle is leaving because of what was published, yet he's getting a golden handshake," he said.

Payments

The severance payments are based on Mr O'Donoghue's salary as Ceann Comhairle, which was reduced from €125,000 to €112,500 in line with the 10pc ministerial pay cut in last October's Budget.

He will receive 75pc of his previous monthly salary for the next six months (€42,187). He will then receive 50pc of his previous monthly salary for the following 12 months (€56,250) and 25pc for the following six months (€14,062). The payments will be taxed, so Mr O'Donoghue is likely to receive around half of the €112,500 total.

However, Mr O'Donoghue will lose his ministerial car and driver once he steps down as Ceann Comhairle next week.

According to information provided by the Department of Finance, former ministers such as Mr O'Donoghue are entitled to claim a full ministerial pension if they have 10 years' service.

His full ministerial pension will be around €67,000 when he retires from the Dail. But he will be able to claim 37.5pc of this figure (€25,000 annually) once his severance payments are completed in two years' time.

- Michael Brennan Political Correspondent

Irish Independent
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/odonoghue-in-line-for-8364112000-payoff-1907549.html

When I see stuff like this, I can't help but think of my time working with various bookmaking concerns, and listening to the powers that be talking about "cleaning up" horse racing, despite the fact that these people completely miss the point.

Every time that a horse which should be in contention is effectively stopped, some poor fecker in a betting shop is getting robbed, since he just picked this name out of the paper despite the fact that the horse never had a chance. A lot of the time the punter in question, when he realises that his horse is not trying, gives out about cheating hoors destroying the game and so on.

Here's the thing though - if you told that same punter before the race that his horse wasn't off, but another horse was lined up for the race and had a great chance at a healthy price, would he have stormed off and given out about how corrupt the sport is? Would he feck, he'd be straight down to the ATM and putting half a week's wages on the fancied tip.

When it comes to politics in this country, the Irish people are the very same. We say that we want an honest game, where people are ostensibly trying to make life better for the citizenry as a whole, but that's not what we want at all. We want the inside track, we want to be the person who backs the right time, who is the beneficiary of the corruption. All the votes for people like Lowry, Flynn, O'Donoghue and hundreds more like them are just that - a big "up yours" to the nation of Ireland, but a statement that I want mine. People in South Kerry aren't voting for John O'Donoghue because he got them a fair shake, they're voting for him because he got them way more than that, at least in the areas he had control over.

We have proved, as a race, time and time again that we don't want honesty, we don't want fair play. I just wish we'd stop pretending that we did. Páidí is just standing up for the man who looked after him, and so it goes - mutual back scratching, enough to give the impression to every poor voter in South Kerry that by voting for JOD, they get to be part of the whole thing, and they get a bit of help pulling a few strokes of their own.

However the real sad part of it is that this is all a mirage - Irish politicians have made a virtue out of doing their basic duty. Some company decides to locate a research and development facility in Limerick City, so Willie O'Dea gets to be at the head of the crowd for the ribbon cutting, despite the fact that the man probably didn't even know who the company was until the deal was 95% approved. Limerick people applaud their man for looking after them, despite the fact that they're the ones going to have to do the work, and the politicians had feck all to do with it in most cases.

Charlie's Charvet shirts, Bertie Ahern's digouts, John O'Donoghue's ten star hotels, Mary Coughlan's existence in any job that requires the most basic intellectual capacity and professionalism, all of these things are part of the package. The Irish culture requires the body politic to have things they don't deserve. How else are we, the humble voters, supposed to believe that some day, by getting on the winning team, we too can have all these things that we don't deserve?

People play lotto thinking, it could be you, looking at the winners and their big lifestyle. They don't realise that "it is you". It is you who paid for this. That's your money that this lucky so-and-so is just spending on their third sports car.

So it is with politics. We want to be the insiders, because the inside is clearly the place to be. Let's face it, that's why Fianna Fáil don't punish O'Donoghue for what he did - it's not only part of their culture, it's part of their strategy.

Some day I'd love to get involved in politics, but politicians who go into this game trying to achieve anything get punished, or in most cases, don't even get started. They've made the rules, they've drawn the boundaries, and they know their audience.

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 08, 2009, 12:05:51 PM
When I see stuff like this, I can't help but think of my time working with various bookmaking concerns, and listening to the powers that be talking about "cleaning up" horse racing, despite the fact that these people completely miss the point.

Every time that a horse which should be in contention is effectively stopped, some poor fecker in a betting shop is getting robbed, since he just picked this name out of the paper despite the fact that the horse never had a chance. A lot of the time the punter in question, when he realises that his horse is not trying, gives out about cheating hoors destroying the game and so on.

Here's the thing though - if you told that same punter before the race that his horse wasn't off, but another horse was lined up for the race and had a great chance at a healthy price, would he have stormed off and given out about how corrupt the sport is? Would he feck, he'd be straight down to the ATM and putting half a week's wages on the fancied tip.

When it comes to politics in this country, the Irish people are the very same. We say that we want an honest game, where people are ostensibly trying to make life better for the citizenry as a whole, but that's not what we want at all. We want the inside track, we want to be the person who backs the right time, who is the beneficiary of the corruption. All the votes for people like Lowry, Flynn, O'Donoghue and hundreds more like them are just that - a big "up yours" to the nation of Ireland, but a statement that I want mine. People in South Kerry aren't voting for John O'Donoghue because he got them a fair shake, they're voting for him because he got them way more than that, at least in the areas he had control over.

We have proved, as a race, time and time again that we don't want honesty, we don't want fair play. I just wish we'd stop pretending that we did. Páidí is just standing up for the man who looked after him, and so it goes - mutual back scratching, enough to give the impression to every poor voter in South Kerry that by voting for JOD, they get to be part of the whole thing, and they get a bit of help pulling a few strokes of their own.

However the real sad part of it is that this is all a mirage - Irish politicians have made a virtue out of doing their basic duty. Some company decides to locate a research and development facility in Limerick City, so Willie O'Dea gets to be at the head of the crowd for the ribbon cutting, despite the fact that the man probably didn't even know who the company was until the deal was 95% approved. Limerick people applaud their man for looking after them, despite the fact that they're the ones going to have to do the work, and the politicians had feck all to do with it in most cases.

Charlie's Charvet shirts, Bertie Ahern's digouts, John O'Donoghue's ten star hotels, Mary Coughlan's existence in any job that requires the most basic intellectual capacity and professionalism, all of these things are part of the package. The Irish culture requires the body politic to have things they don't deserve. How else are we, the humble voters, supposed to believe that some day, by getting on the winning team, we too can have all these things that we don't deserve?

People play lotto thinking, it could be you, looking at the winners and their big lifestyle. They don't realise that "it is you". It is you who paid for this. That's your money that this lucky so-and-so is just spending on their third sports car.

So it is with politics. We want to be the insiders, because the inside is clearly the place to be. Let's face it, that's why Fianna Fáil don't punish O'Donoghue for what he did - it's not only part of their culture, it's part of their strategy.

Some day I'd love to get involved in politics, but politicians who go into this game trying to achieve anything get punished, or in most cases, don't even get started. They've made the rules, they've drawn the boundaries, and they know their audience.

Excellently written post, but it is apocalypitic in ways, where is the hope if the good politicians always get frozen out. Also the bit in bold carries more weight with me than any other part of my being, honesty and fair play, when I see that doesnt happen it effects me deeply. You offer us no hope, is it really just going to one continous cycle over and over again. No solutions anything Lone Shark? Cant we break the boundaries like Ted Kennedy did in the senate?

If you are a true democrat, which most people are (I'm having second thoughts myself to be honest), then the whole point is that it's not fair to have a solution. This isn't a bad system that has been imposed against our will, this is what people want. People in this country don't vote for politicians in the truest sense of the word, they vote for personal concierges who are stealing from the till, but they don't care because they don't make the link between the till and our money.

This is democracy for you. We could be better off, but deep down, all wealth is relative (the Celtic tiger proved that above all) and Paddy and Mary Irishperson would prefer to be less well off collectively as long as they get to pull a stroke somewhere along the line and feel like they got one up on their neighbours.

Call it colonialism or whatever, but it's who we are.

the only answer is a revolution !
but we are all now too soft and have 'too much to lose' to do anything about it - despite what Shamrock shore says!

The good politicians are hamstrung by their parties and their interparty colleagues and counterparts.
If someone tried to blow the whistle or buck the trend, they would be ostracised and some measures would be taken to ensure that they didnt get re-elected or maybe not even allowed to stand and their only option then would be as an independant (though they carry some sway at times - the indos voting for FF to give them majority in last election proved).
So the future is bleak for any brave decent TD that wants to try to resolve corruption.
They can only do their good work below the parapets.



the only answer is a revolution !

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
If you are a true democrat, which most people are (I'm having second thoughts myself to be honest), then the whole point is that it's not fair to have a solution. This isn't a bad system that has been imposed against our will, this is what people want. People in this country don't vote for politicians in the truest sense of the word, they vote for personal concierges who are stealing from the till, but they don't care because they don't make the link between the till and our money.

This is democracy for you. We could be better off, but deep down, all wealth is relative (the Celtic tiger proved that above all) and Paddy and Mary Irishperson would prefer to be less well off collectively as long as they get to pull a stroke somewhere along the line and feel like they got one up on their neighbours.

Call it colonialism or whatever, but it's who we are.

You've always had an interesting line on Irish politics, LS, but this reeks of cut & paste. It has been a trope beloved of political animals in Ireland for God-knows-how-long that people would vote for a yellow dog if FF put them up. Well, unless something dramatic happens in the next couple of years we are going to see something dramatic in the next couple of years: FF electoral meltdown. Analyses of us as a 'race' which exclude the probability of the party of power being reduced at the next election to a loose collection of petty chieftains need to consider intergrating that possibility into their thinking.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - we voted for them.  Our politicians are, as Lone Shark says, a reflection of us.

Speak for yourselves sinners.
The integrity of my soul is intact.

Quote from: Main Street on October 08, 2009, 01:50:28 PM
Speak for yourselves sinners.
The integrity of my soul is intact.

Better a sinner than a Shinner ;)

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 08, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
the only answer is a revolution !
but we are all now too soft and have 'too much to lose' to do anything about it - despite what Shamrock shore says!

The good politicians are hamstrung by their parties and their interparty colleagues and counterparts.
If someone tried to blow the whistle or buck the trend, they would be ostracised and some measures would be taken to ensure that they didnt get re-elected or maybe not even allowed to stand and their only option then would be as an independant (though they carry some sway at times - the indos voting for FF to give them majority in last election proved).
So the future is bleak for any brave decent TD that wants to try to resolve corruption.
They can only do their good work below the parapets.



the only answer is a revolution !

If we were France, Leinster House would be burnt down long ago.

Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2009, 01:57:01 PM

Quote from: lynchbhoy on October 08, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
the only answer is a revolution !

If we were France, Leinster House would be burnt down long ago.

Yeah, they'd never tolerate political corruption in France . . .

I can't help but feel the Irish people get to much credit when it comes to this.

I'm of the impression that FF are that good at electioneering that many of the public have no idea how they were duped. FF are masters of manipulation. Just take Bertie Ahern for example. That man has played a huge part in destroying this Country yet the FF machine knew exactly how to play it. They went on a black campaign against his opponents and painted Ahern out to be a victim. It was huge, the guy was in tears on National TV. For some reason Kenny came out looking worse than Ahern. It's not Just our politicans it's the FF machine. The people they have on the inside of every organisation of influence from your GAA club to RTE, from the HSE to the Gardai. Your average voting Joe has no idea of how many angels the are being worked from by FF. The might of FF electioneering and the reach of thier power was evident in the Lisbon debate. It was no coincidence that the main media print and broadcast, business, Union, high profile public figure came out in support of Lisbon. It got a little scary watching them in action.

I often shook my head in disbelief at how the Irish people can continue to support FF. I am now in no doubt of how that happened. It's the innocence of the Irish people that FF have preyed on.

Personally, I am not a believer in the sacred cow system of democracy to elect members of parliament.
I would have a  2 year civics/constitution/law/civil rights course as part of the Leaving Certificate. Those who demonstrate competency in it can get a 10 year licence to vote.

I am fed up with morons/gobshites who can just about digest a tabloid headline, who fall for every politician's con trick and forked tongue, having the right to vote.

Quote from: Main Street on October 08, 2009, 02:28:12 PM
Personally, I am not a believer in the sacred cow system of democracy to elect members of parliament.
I would have a  2 year civics/constitution/law/civil rights course as part of the Leaving Certificate. Those who demonstrate competency in it can get a 10 year licence to vote.

I am fed up with morons/gobshites who can just about digest a tabloid headline, who fall for every politician's con trick and forked tongue, having the right to vote.

Bloody hell. How Platonic. Who would you have setting the exam?

Quote from: Main Street on October 08, 2009, 02:28:12 PM
Personally, I am not a believer in the sacred cow system of democracy to elect members of parliament.
I would have a  2 year civics/constitution/law/civil rights course as part of the Leaving Certificate. Those who demonstrate competency in it can get a 10 year licence to vote.

I am fed up with morons/gobshites who can just about digest a tabloid headline, who fall for every politician's con trick and forked tongue, having the right to vote.

The result would be no different. You would merely have a better definition of class in society. There would be the political class, the voting class and the working class.

Quote from: deiseach on October 08, 2009, 01:38:55 PM

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
If you are a true democrat, which most people are (I'm having second thoughts myself to be honest), then the whole point is that it's not fair to have a solution. This isn't a bad system that has been imposed against our will, this is what people want. People in this country don't vote for politicians in the truest sense of the word, they vote for personal concierges who are stealing from the till, but they don't care because they don't make the link between the till and our money.

This is democracy for you. We could be better off, but deep down, all wealth is relative (the Celtic tiger proved that above all) and Paddy and Mary Irishperson would prefer to be less well off collectively as long as they get to pull a stroke somewhere along the line and feel like they got one up on their neighbours.

Call it colonialism or whatever, but it's who we are.

You've always had an interesting line on Irish politics, LS, but this reeks of cut & paste. It has been a trope beloved of political animals in Ireland for God-knows-how-long that people would vote for a yellow dog if FF put them up. Well, unless something dramatic happens in the next couple of years we are going to see something dramatic in the next couple of years: FF electoral meltdown. Analyses of us as a 'race' which exclude the probability of the party of power being reduced at the next election to a loose collection of petty chieftains need to consider intergrating that possibility into their thinking.

Whatever else it is, I can assure you it isn't cut and paste. I'm not naive enough to think that my words will cut straight to the heart of the Irish voting populace and usher in a new era of honesty and working for the collective good, but they are my own.

As for the FF electoral meltdown, I've yet to see that much evidence that it's going to happen. Polling has become a false reflection, voting FF is now like a dirty pleasure, an indulgence that people know they shouldn't get involved in, but just can't help themselves. The people of South Kerry stand by JOD because he's one of their own - and it's the same in every constituency in Ireland, with the possible exception of some of the Dublin ones. We will tell pollsters that we abhor FF, that we'll vote against them, but then we'll go back into the polling booth and do what we always did.

I'll be utterly delighted if the next election, whenever it may be, proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Also, in order for Ireland to truly grow up, we'd have to do two things. Firstly we'd have to punish FF, but secondly, we'd have to not cod ourselves into looking at the past through rose tinted glasses as the new government cleans up the mess and hopefully expunges the system of a lot of toxins. I think there is a decent chance that FF will be out of government after the next election, a slim chance that they'll be reduced to 30 seats or less as they should be, but that's no good if we go through five years of another government and then do like we always did - punish them for cleaning things up at let FF back in for another generation.

Some light relief from Miriam Lord's piece in the Times today;

'The Bull has now joined five llamas and two goats on Ireland's missing list of circus escapees.'

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 08, 2009, 03:54:19 PM
Whatever else it is, I can assure you it isn't cut and paste. I'm not naive enough to think that my words will cut straight to the heart of the Irish voting populace and usher in a new era of honesty and working for the collective good, but they are my own.

I didn't mean you cogged it from someone else, just that it reflects a potentially outdated paradigm

Quote from: Lone Shark on October 08, 2009, 03:54:19 PMAs for the FF electoral meltdown, I've yet to see that much evidence that it's going to happen. Polling has become a false reflection, voting FF is now like a dirty pleasure, an indulgence that people know they shouldn't get involved in, but just can't help themselves. The people of South Kerry stand by JOD because he's one of their own - and it's the same in every constituency in Ireland, with the possible exception of some of the Dublin ones. We will tell pollsters that we abhor FF, that we'll vote against them, but then we'll go back into the polling booth and do what we always did.

I'll be utterly delighted if the next election, whenever it may be, proves me wrong, but I doubt it. Also, in order for Ireland to truly grow up, we'd have to do two things. Firstly we'd have to punish FF, but secondly, we'd have to not cod ourselves into looking at the past through rose tinted glasses as the new government cleans up the mess and hopefully expunges the system of a lot of toxins. I think there is a decent chance that FF will be out of government after the next election, a slim chance that they'll be reduced to 30 seats or less as they should be, but that's no good if we go through five years of another government and then do like we always did - punish them for cleaning things up at let FF back in for another generation.

Well, I think the opinion polls have been pretty accurate in recent elections. You seem to be placing a lot of faith (for want of a better term) in your low opinion of the Irish electorate, but I doubt we've EVER seen numbers this low for FF. What is your precedent for such speculation? As for the 'others' getting punished for cleaning things up, that's a fantasy beloved of FG to explain away the fact that they've never won an election after being in government. It ignores the fact that while they may have often inherited a mess, they rarely (if ever) cleaned things up. A bit of self-knowledge about their own inadequacies would help

Quote from: Zapatista on October 08, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
The result would be no different. You would merely have a better definition of class in society. There would be the political class, the voting class and the working class.

You are stuck in viewing society though a class perspective ideology and maybe some fixed methods to eliminate class divisions.

But sure, no one change can effect an end to a political structured ideology  that subverts the constitution rights of the citizens towards the  interests of big business.

But as part of a process I see no obvious negatives to a constitutionally educated electorate.
The evidence is, the more illiterate an electorate, the politicians are more exploitive and self serving.

Quote from: Main Street on October 08, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
But as part of a process I see no obvious negatives to a constitutionally educated electorate.
The evidence is, the more illiterate an electorate, the politicians are more exploitive and self serving.

I was being quite serious when I asked who would write your exam. We do get a bit hung up on platitudes like 'one man one vote' but democracy of the committed doesn't fill me with confidence

Quote from: Main Street on October 08, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
But as part of a process I see no obvious negatives to a constitutionally educated electorate.
The evidence is, the more illiterate an electorate, the politicians are more exploitive and self serving.

I'm fixed on the reality.

Those you claim to be exploitive are those who would probably qualify to vote in your proposal. Bringing the same result.

The last time there was a system like this they brought in the penal laws. The uneducated (catholic majority) had no right to vote.

There are tests for everything yet they are all designed provide a particular outcome usually dictated by the market. If one of the question in your quiz was 'do you believe marijuna should be legalised?' would the right answer be Yes or No?

I don't know if there is a way to prevent this from happening but I do think remving FF from Government and holding individuals who done wrong to account would be a step in the right direction

Back to topic.
I dont know the exact figures but it probably goes something like this.
Somewhere in excess of 200,000 euro in expenses alone in recent years.
If the average taxpayer paid 5000 euro a year in income tax, he has spent 40 years of one mans tax. A working lifetime. Add salary. Same if not more. PER YEAR!!!!!!!  Pension? How many pensions?
I estimate it takes the tax of 50 or 60 workers to keep this man in position for a year. And ten men a year in future to pay his pensions. Its real money, And its our money.
I believe it is criminal.

Quote from: deiseach on October 08, 2009, 04:40:23 PM
Well, I think the opinion polls have been pretty accurate in recent elections. You seem to be placing a lot of faith (for want of a better term) in your low opinion of the Irish electorate, but I doubt we've EVER seen numbers this low for FF. What is your precedent for such speculation? As for the 'others' getting punished for cleaning things up, that's a fantasy beloved of FG to explain away the fact that they've never won an election after being in government. It ignores the fact that while they may have often inherited a mess, they rarely (if ever) cleaned things up. A bit of self-knowledge about their own inadequacies would help

Hey, my speculation is just that - my speculation. I'll be the first to admit that there's no basis for it, but even so I can't help but be worried that there's a lot of people out there who talk about being disgusted at what FF have been up to, but they simply won't follow through. I just think it's in the Irish psyche.

As for the history of FG in government, I'll only speak for the ones in my lifetime. In 1982 they took over from a situation where the government pay cheques were a couple of weeks away from bouncing due to the public largesse of Jack Lynch and his stream of populist measures. They slowly steadied the ship and while things didn't get a whole lot better, they got a bit better. The FG labour government in the 1990's was one of the best we had as far as I'm concerned - most of the current growth can be traced back to decisions taken then, and I genuinely believe that everything that FF did from then on was simply keeping the thing between the ditches - and eventually, they failed to do even that.

Thats the tragedy of Ireland, the natural party of government have become totally corrupted, and the opposition such as it is would be too incompetent too run a Sweetie Shop. Indeed FF have only got away with their shennanigans because the opposition is so inept and clueless. Its only when the Press point them in the right direction that they begin to chase the Hound, and then usually ineffectively. Things will only change when people become engaged with the process of challenging their TDs and local councillors particularly over the accepted practise of clientilism, which is the only activity most of them indulge in, is a massive con and totally unnecessary

Quote from: Zapatista on October 08, 2009, 02:05:48 PM
I can't help but feel the Irish people get to much credit when it comes to this.

I'm of the impression that FF are that good at electioneering that many of the public have no idea how they were duped. FF are masters of manipulation. Just take Bertie Ahern for example. That man has played a huge part in destroying this Country yet the FF machine knew exactly how to play it. They went on a black campaign against his opponents and painted Ahern out to be a victim. It was huge, the guy was in tears on National TV. For some reason Kenny came out looking worse than Ahern. It's not Just our politicans it's the FF machine. The people they have on the inside of every organisation of influence from your GAA club to RTE, from the HSE to the Gardai. Your average voting Joe has no idea of how many angels the are being worked from by FF. The might of FF electioneering and the reach of thier power was evident in the Lisbon debate. It was no coincidence that the main media print and broadcast, business, Union, high profile public figure came out in support of Lisbon. It got a little scary watching them in action.

I often shook my head in disbelief at how the Irish people can continue to support FF. I am now in no doubt of how that happened. It's the innocence of the Irish people that FF have preyed on.

I think you are only half right there Zapatista. I am not sure where you come from but let me tell you something about  the rural Ireland I come from. If FF put up Jack the Ripper for election they would get minimum 20% of the vote, same goes for FG. Its a fan club, you stay with your team to the death. The parties only have to trick or manipulate a few more percent of the "unaffiliated" voters to get their man in.

They are all at it.

Is there a more eloquent illustration of the venal, parish-pump, nature of the colloquial charade that masquerades as Irish politics?... From the Irish Times:

O'Donoghue to stand for re-election

Departing Ceann Comhairle John O'Donoghue will stand for re-election, the former South Kerry Fianna Fáil TD John O'Leary has said.

Speaking on Radio Kerry this morning, Mr O'Leary said Mr O'Donoghue had told him in a telephone conversation that he would be "standing for re-election in South Kerry, definitely".

He is going to let the people of South Kerry decide whether it is right for him to leave office without a hearing, Mr O'Leary said.

On Tuesday night, Mr O'Donoghue (53) announced he would resign his position as Ceann Comhairle. Mr O'Donoghue was first elected to the Dáil in 1987 and was a cabinet Minister from 1997 until 2007, when he was appointed to the office of Ceann Comhairle.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 09, 2009, 12:51:11 PM
Is there a more eloquent illustration of the venal, parish-pump, nature of the colloquial charade that masquerades as Irish politics?

Maybe he'll lose.

I'll get my coat . . .

Quote from: deiseach on October 09, 2009, 01:05:55 PM
Maybe he'll lose.

I'll get my coat . . .

Good job, I was just on my way around to you  ;)

My money'll be on him topping the poll.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on October 09, 2009, 01:13:30 PM
My money'll be on him topping the poll.

Good luck finding a bookie who'll take your money

just an exerpt from his speech today

'By way of illustration, I want to refer to a number of specific issues. There are also many other issues in need of correction. This is for another day. I refer to these illustrations for the sake of demonstrating that the opportunity to defend myself, my office and others, was one of substance. I do not appeal to fair procedures on the basis of some abstract principle. Being afforded a fair hearing would have had real implications. I have been denied that opportunity by a pre-emptive assertion of No Confidence. In referring to some constant and repeated misstatements and misunderstandings, I do so simply to illustrate why fair process is important and, specifically, when one is dealing with the holder of a constitutional office such as Ceann Comhairle.

(1) International Flights: Government Jet.
'The impression has been created that I travelled very frequently to international events, on the government jet. I have extracted the records in this regard. While I was Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism I was on 14 international flights on the Government jet over a five-year period. The government jet was not at my beck and call or for my personal pleasure.

(2) Venice and Cannes.
'I think it is important to point out that accommodation is frequently arranged, locally, for a visiting Minister. It is arranged by the hosts of an event that one is attending. Alternatively, it is arranged by the relevant Department. Some have stated that I stayed in a hotel in Venice at €900 per night. This is advanced as further evidence of extravagance. In fact, a perusal of the records demonstrates that the cost of staying in the Best Western Hotel - Albergo San Marco in Venice was € 312.50 per room. Likewise the cost of the Montfleury Novotel, Cannes was €352.50 per room. This is small detail that shows why making my case in its full detail was important.

(3) Heathrow
'The transfer between terminals at Heathrow was in accordance with standard protocol. This is a long established custom and practice whereby an incoming Minister is greeted by an Embassy official. My case was no exception. It has happened on hundreds of occasions in the past to others who have held office.

(4) Charity
'One of the most bizarre matters that has arisen relates to the sum of £1.00, on a hotel bill, that was a charge imposed for the benefit of a charity. The hotel bill was processed, in the normal way and in accordance with standard procedures, and the costs duly paid. That hotel had an arrangement with the charity to make the payment of £1.00 in respect of guests staying in its accommodation. Through an administrative error when personal costs on the bill were charged to me the charitable sum was omitted. But I never saw the bill. I did not process it for payment. I was not aware of the deduction and the arrangement between the hotel and the charity. I did not claim back this £1.00. To impute to me this level of petty meanness is extraordinary. This again demonstrates the necessity for careful and detailed analysis of the costs incurred and why I had been wronged by a denial of fair procedure.

(5) Gratuity - €520.00
'It has been suggested that I paid €520.00, and other amounts, in tips to limousine drivers/taxis. This is simply untrue. In certain countries, e.g. the USA, a gratuity is automatically added. In the case of a trip to the United States a gratuity, at a level of 20%, was added. The bill was processed through the Consul in New York, paid and recouped from the Department. A similar process applied to other jurisdictions. I did not pay €520.00 by way of a tip. The tipping arrangement is a standard procedure which was followed on these occasions.

(6) Hong Kong
'A cost of €12,000 is attributed to me, as Ceann Comhairle, for car hire for a trip to Hong Kong whilst in transit. In fact the costs reported include the costs of officials and parliamentary delegates, i.e. other TDs and Senators.

'Any common sense view of my situation will recognize the particular representative functions which arise from being Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism and indeed Ceann Comhairle. One attends events at home and abroad. In attending international events I want to emphasis that it was my function to represent and promote Ireland in many ways. The goodwill and the networking that derives from these occasions benefit important industries in this State. In this context, my period as Minister saw record increases in the number of tourists coming to Ireland. I succeeded as well in providing invaluable assistance which attracted the Volvo Ocean Race, a stage of the World Rally, and the Solheim Cup to Ireland. These are worth millions of Euro to our country. Additionally my attendance at International Race meetings, where I promoted the Irish horse racing industry with Horse Racing Ireland, was of enormous benefit as has been confirmed by that organization to an industry that employs over 16,000 people directly and indirectly mainly in rural Ireland.

Does it strike anyone alse that what our politicians do seems to be about six months behind what they do in London?

Blair/Bertie dominate for years but under increasing pressure (and no little forewarning) decide to step aside. Gordon/Cowen take the reigns and walk into financial meltdown. With the public angry and blame turning to politicians their expenses come to light and they are revealed for the immoral pigs they all are. Politicians come together, scapegoats are needed, lets round on the speaker of the house Michael Martin/John O Donoghue. They get forced out, they feel hard done by, 'we broke no rules etc', the rest of them trot out rubbish like 'lets draw a line in the sand' and 'move on', 'the system was to blame'.

Only a matter of time before TD's are forced to pay back some of the more ridiculous costs.
They don't seem to realise that "I acted within the rules" is not a defence for their immoral ways

What a pompous arrogant p***k O Donaghue is. Jesus, I have never heard such shite sputed out of an individual in my life. You'd think he was making a speech outside the GPO or something. He symbolises everything that is wrong with political life in ireland at the moment. 500,000 people on the dole & all he could cry about was dur process. Bottom line is he was another big time charlie like Ahern & Haughey who was taking the piss....

The Greens did the country a huge dis-service keeping that shower in government. Fair play to Gilmore, he appears to be the only politician with a notion regarding public feeling & a sense of decency. He had balls to do what he did & I applaud him. Cowen has again showed himself to be a clown. He must be the worst taiseach in living memory.

Rant over

I love his I'm only  answerable to the people of Kerry South. Then resign and run in the by election !

I notice he doesn't address his accepting payment to employ a political advisor, even though he is supposed to be neutral as Ceann Comhairle.

It would be like the Cardinal employing a sex therapist.

Quote from: BerfArmagh on October 14, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
What a pompous arrogant p***k O Donaghue is. Jesus, I have never heard such shite sputed out of an individual in my life. You'd think he was making a speech outside the GPO or something. He symbolises everything that is wrong with political life in ireland at the moment. 500,000 people on the dole & all he could cry about was dur process. Bottom line is he was another big time charlie like Ahern & Haughey who was taking the piss....

The Greens did the country a huge dis-service keeping that shower in government. Fair play to Gilmore, he appears to be the only politician with a notion regarding public feeling & a sense of decency. He had balls to do what he did & I applaud him. Cowen has again showed himself to be a clown. He must be the worst taiseach in living memory.

Rant over

Gilmore would have continued to keep his mouth shut if SF hadn't have indicated they would do it. SF said it on tv that morning and Gilmore did it in the Dail before they did in order to save his own face. It should have been Kenny saying it but Kenny is a little puppy in there. Gilmore didn't tell Kenny he was going to do it and stabbed him in the back.  Once again Gilmore is silent on expences. Harney, Dempsey etc should all be targeted by the opposition. They won't be though as none of them want to do it. They will take this lamb and ask for nothing more. If SF do it noone will listen and they might get evicted from the Dail. Joe Higgans probably would have done it but he would be called a looney comunist for it. Gilmore should hang his head in shame. JOD is gone, the public anger has been answered and now they can all go back to their gravy train.

Quote from: Zapatista on October 15, 2009, 08:14:07 AM

Quote from: BerfArmagh on October 14, 2009, 09:38:08 AM
What a pompous arrogant p***k O Donaghue is. Jesus, I have never heard such shite sputed out of an individual in my life. You'd think he was making a speech outside the GPO or something. He symbolises everything that is wrong with political life in ireland at the moment. 500,000 people on the dole & all he could cry about was dur process. Bottom line is he was another big time charlie like Ahern & Haughey who was taking the piss....

The Greens did the country a huge dis-service keeping that shower in government. Fair play to Gilmore, he appears to be the only politician with a notion regarding public feeling & a sense of decency. He had balls to do what he did & I applaud him. Cowen has again showed himself to be a clown. He must be the worst taiseach in living memory.

Rant over

Gilmore would have continued to keep his mouth shut if SF hadn't have indicated they would do it. SF said it on tv that morning and Gilmore did it in the Dail before they did in order to save his own face. It should have been Kenny saying it but Kenny is a little puppy in there. Gilmore didn't tell Kenny he was going to do it and stabbed him in the back.  Once again Gilmore is silent on expences. Harney, Dempsey etc should all be targeted by the opposition. They won't be though as none of them want to do it. They will take this lamb and ask for nothing more. If SF do it noone will listen and they might get evicted from the Dail. Joe Higgans probably would have done it but he would be called a looney comunist for it. Gilmore should hang his head in shame. JOD is gone, the public anger has been answered and now they can all go back to their gravy train.

The trouble with opposition is they are all as bad as FF . Since SF have never been in power down here they are about the only only with a clean bib when it come to this sort of thing anyway.

QuoteI notice he doesn't address his accepting payment to employ a political advisor, even though he is supposed to be neutral as Ceann Comhairle.

A man (who would know these things) told me last night that O'Donoghue summoned his driver from Dublin to drive to his house in Caherciveen with the sole purpose of bringing his son downtown (in Caherciveen) for a haircut. 

Quote from: Gnevin on October 15, 2009, 08:56:44 AM

The trouble with opposition is they are all as bad as FF . Since SF have never been in power down here they are about the only only with a clean bib when it come to this sort of thing anyway.

When we talk about ministers expences the only ones who were in a position to rack them up were FF, PD and GN. FG and Lab have been out of power for the entire boom. They are bound to have a clean sheet? Maybe the lure of a power and it's benefits are what is keeping them silent?

Quote from: Zapatista on October 15, 2009, 09:08:09 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 15, 2009, 08:56:44 AM

The trouble with opposition is they are all as bad as FF . Since SF have never been in power down here they are about the only only with a clean bib when it come to this sort of thing anyway.

When we talk about ministers expences the only ones who were in a position to rack them up were FF, PD and GN. FG and Lab have been out of power for the entire boom. They are bound to have a clean sheet? Maybe the lure of a power and it's benefits are what is keeping them silent?

Not according to Newstalk and others. They where all at it they claim .

Quote from: Gnevin on October 15, 2009, 09:20:12 AM

Not according to Newstalk and others. They where all at it they claim .

They didn't have any ministers. They couldn't head off on junkets at the expence of the tax payer.

Overall Mr Dempsey has been responsible for costs of €38,000 during eight foreign trips since January last year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-splashed-out-836414000-on-limos-1923532.html

Quote from: Zapatista on October 24, 2009, 11:09:05 AM

Overall Mr Dempsey has been responsible for costs of €38,000 during eight foreign trips since January last year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-splashed-out-836414000-on-limos-1923532.html

This will be the 1st of many of these reports. All these ministers are at the same hence the muffled response to the previous case. Many of the opposition were ministers once too and they are also afraid their skeletons will come out of the closet. Pathetic bunch of dicks.

Quote from: Gnevin on October 15, 2009, 09:20:12 AM

Quote from: Zapatista on October 15, 2009, 09:08:09 AM

Quote from: Gnevin on October 15, 2009, 08:56:44 AM

The trouble with opposition is they are all as bad as FF . Since SF have never been in power down here they are about the only only with a clean bib when it come to this sort of thing anyway.

When we talk about ministers expences the only ones who were in a position to rack them up were FF, PD and GN. FG and Lab have been out of power for the entire boom. They are bound to have a clean sheet? Maybe the lure of a power and it's benefits are what is keeping them silent?

Not according to Newstalk and others. They where all at it they claim .

GaaBoard Breaking News:

The coalition has fallen.

GNevin has been spotted defending Fianna Fail without coalition partner Tankie. Rumours of Tankie being sighted on his way to the Park conflict with reports of him being on a Stagg in the Park.

This is an absolute disgrace - these cnuts can more that afford to buy their own tickets to all these matches. Then, if they weren't given the tickets at the taxpayers expense they would probably never grace any of these events!



O'Donoghue given €498 rugby ticket

By Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy


Saturday October 31 2009

FORMER Ceann Comhairle John O'Donoghue was one of four people given free premium tickets to the rugby World Cup final at a cost of €1,700 to the taxpayer.

The cost was just for tickets to the match -- in which South Africa beat England in Paris -- and did not include flights and accommodation. The bill was footed by the Irish Sports Council, and Mr O'Donoghue was accompanied by council chairman Ossie Kilkenny and two others, whose identities have not been revealed.

The former Ceann Comhairle refused to return calls last night, while it was unclear if he was offered the tickets or asked for them. The latest revelation comes only weeks after the South Kerry TD resigned from his position as Ceann Comhairle amid uproar over the €550,000 in expenses racked up in his five years as Sports Minister and the €250,000 in his two years as Ceann Comhairle. His resignation came after details of years of lavish spending emerged.

At the time of the rugby final, which took place in October 2007, Mr O'Donoghue was Ceann Comhairle and had been moved from his previous position as Arts, Sports and Tourism Minister after the General Election that May.

The Sports Council could not explain why they paid for his tickets, given that he was no longer Sports Minister.

council chairman Ossie Kilkenny also refused to comment when contacted last night and refused to say who accompanied him and Mr O'Donoghue to the match.

Four tickets were bought for €1,678 -- two were in the most-expensive category for the game at €498, and another two were in the second-most-expensive one at €341.

Pool tickets for the match started at €10 and other tickets ranged in price from €100 upwards, according to the International Rugby Board.

Documents obtained by the Irish Independent under the Freedom of Information Act also show that the Arts, Sports and Tourism ministers since 2007 did not receive any free tickets. Details of expenses incurred by board members of the council show that former FAS chairman Peter McLoone -- as well as Maurice Ahern, brother of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern -- are among a number of board members who have been given free sports tickets in the last six years.

Mr McLoone, who is general secretary of the IMPACT trade union and is involved in negotiations on public-sector pay, and Mr Ahern availed of free tickets to sought-after events such as All-Ireland finals and Irish rugby internationals.

The tickets ranged in cost from basic stand prices to €300 packages. Mr McLoone went to see Ireland take on Argentina in the 2007 Rugby World Cup at a cost of €800.

Mr McLoone, who stepped down as a member of the Sports Council in September after a 10-year term, was given two free tickets -- and sometimes three and four -- to at least 25 sporting events since 2002.

Free

These included All-Ireland hurling and football finals, rugby internationals and soccer internationals. International rugby matches took up the vast majority of Mr McLoone's free-ticket allocations, and he attended almost every major home game over the last few years, including matches against England, South Africa, the All Blacks, France and other six nations teams.

Other allocations for matches do not say who they were given to but only say they were allocated to board members.

Mr Kilkenny, a well-known accountant, also received free tickets for a similar number of events, often for as many as four people, in his role as chairman.

Mr Ahern, who also recently stepped down after a 10-year term, attended less events than Mr McLoone but also took in rugby and soccer internationals as well as All-Ireland deciders. Mr Ahern said he was on five different committees for the council and the tickets were a small token for his efforts. He said board members forfeited their €7,000 allowance this year.

The spending details also show that board members were given Christmas gifts such as vouchers for top golf courses like Mount Juliet and Michelin-starred restaurants like Chapter One, as well as jewellery and gift vouchers. Others in receipt of expenses from the council include Kerry legend Mick O'Dwyer, who claimed thousands of euro of mileage, former Dublin midfielder Brian Mullins and head of the Special Olympics, Mary Davis.

The details also show that annual Christmas parties cost thousands of euro, including dinner at the Alexander Hotel in Dublin in 2007 for €2,949 and at the Conrad Hotel in 2006 for €6,176. Similar dinners at the Conrad in previous years also saw members who lived in the capital -- including Mr McLoone and Mr Mullins -- being put up in the hotel for the night.

- Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy

Irish Independent

Quote from: comethekingdom on October 31, 2009, 09:40:52 AM
This is an absolute disgrace - these cnuts can more that afford to buy their own tickets to all these matches. Then, if they weren't given the tickets at the taxpayers expense they would probably never grace any of these events!



O'Donoghue given €498 rugby ticket

By Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy


Saturday October 31 2009

FORMER Ceann Comhairle John O'Donoghue was one of four people given free premium tickets to the rugby World Cup final at a cost of €1,700 to the taxpayer.

The cost was just for tickets to the match -- in which South Africa beat England in Paris -- and did not include flights and accommodation. The bill was footed by the Irish Sports Council, and Mr O'Donoghue was accompanied by council chairman Ossie Kilkenny and two others, whose identities have not been revealed.

The former Ceann Comhairle refused to return calls last night, while it was unclear if he was offered the tickets or asked for them. The latest revelation comes only weeks after the South Kerry TD resigned from his position as Ceann Comhairle amid uproar over the €550,000 in expenses racked up in his five years as Sports Minister and the €250,000 in his two years as Ceann Comhairle. His resignation came after details of years of lavish spending emerged.

At the time of the rugby final, which took place in October 2007, Mr O'Donoghue was Ceann Comhairle and had been moved from his previous position as Arts, Sports and Tourism Minister after the General Election that May.

The Sports Council could not explain why they paid for his tickets, given that he was no longer Sports Minister.

council chairman Ossie Kilkenny also refused to comment when contacted last night and refused to say who accompanied him and Mr O'Donoghue to the match.

Four tickets were bought for €1,678 -- two were in the most-expensive category for the game at €498, and another two were in the second-most-expensive one at €341.

Pool tickets for the match started at €10 and other tickets ranged in price from €100 upwards, according to the International Rugby Board.

Documents obtained by the Irish Independent under the Freedom of Information Act also show that the Arts, Sports and Tourism ministers since 2007 did not receive any free tickets. Details of expenses incurred by board members of the council show that former FAS chairman Peter McLoone -- as well as Maurice Ahern, brother of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern -- are among a number of board members who have been given free sports tickets in the last six years.

Mr McLoone, who is general secretary of the IMPACT trade union and is involved in negotiations on public-sector pay, and Mr Ahern availed of free tickets to sought-after events such as All-Ireland finals and Irish rugby internationals.

The tickets ranged in cost from basic stand prices to €300 packages. Mr McLoone went to see Ireland take on Argentina in the 2007 Rugby World Cup at a cost of €800.

Mr McLoone, who stepped down as a member of the Sports Council in September after a 10-year term, was given two free tickets -- and sometimes three and four -- to at least 25 sporting events since 2002.

Free

These included All-Ireland hurling and football finals, rugby internationals and soccer internationals. International rugby matches took up the vast majority of Mr McLoone's free-ticket allocations, and he attended almost every major home game over the last few years, including matches against England, South Africa, the All Blacks, France and other six nations teams.

Other allocations for matches do not say who they were given to but only say they were allocated to board members.

Mr Kilkenny, a well-known accountant, also received free tickets for a similar number of events, often for as many as four people, in his role as chairman.

Mr Ahern, who also recently stepped down after a 10-year term, attended less events than Mr McLoone but also took in rugby and soccer internationals as well as All-Ireland deciders. Mr Ahern said he was on five different committees for the council and the tickets were a small token for his efforts. He said board members forfeited their €7,000 allowance this year.

The spending details also show that board members were given Christmas gifts such as vouchers for top golf courses like Mount Juliet and Michelin-starred restaurants like Chapter One, as well as jewellery and gift vouchers. Others in receipt of expenses from the council include Kerry legend Mick O'Dwyer, who claimed thousands of euro of mileage, former Dublin midfielder Brian Mullins and head of the Special Olympics, Mary Davis.

The details also show that annual Christmas parties cost thousands of euro, including dinner at the Alexander Hotel in Dublin in 2007 for €2,949 and at the Conrad Hotel in 2006 for €6,176. Similar dinners at the Conrad in previous years also saw members who lived in the capital -- including Mr McLoone and Mr Mullins -- being put up in the hotel for the night.

- Fiach Kelly and Edel Kennedy

Irish Independent

Wonder will use the excuse it was in the line of duty I had to go. But he cant use that excuse as he wasnt sports minister. The thing that pisses me off from his time of sports minister and all the sport events he went to, Id say he had a duty to be a feck all and just picked and chosed the ones that suited him. The Irish taxpayer gave him this ticket and with his wage its unreal cheek to accept it. Problem is we dont make the decision to give it to him. Our money is being spent without our consent.They have to change all the procedures of the expenses. Also the duties of these ministers and events there allowed should also be regulated. A total revamp and transparency. I want to see the new procedures...

Quote from: comethekingdom on October 31, 2009, 09:40:52 AM
This is an absolute disgrace - these cnuts can more that afford to buy their own tickets to all these matches. Then, if they weren't given the tickets at the taxpayers expense they would probably never grace any of these events!

We have been robbed.

Fair play ctk, is he in your constituency? The people of Kerry need to show their disgust at this more than anyone as he claims their support justifies his actions.

Other end of the county I'm afraid Zap. I've never voted FF anyway - all a bundle of gangsters - the lot of them !!

He did nothing wrong. It would only be wrong if he were to do it after being caught.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/o-cuiv-defends-his-836420000--on-chauffeurs-in-two-years-1940264.html

Thursday November 12 2009

A GOVERNMENT minister spent €20,000 on chauffeur services while on foreign trips over the past two years.

Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Minister Eamon O Cuiv racked up the bill during 12 of his 16 official trips abroad. The lavish spend on limousines, SUVs and other luxury chauffeur services included tips totalling €1,500 during three US visits.

Mr O Cuiv last night defended the amounts, but admitted some of the car hire was "very expensive" and that costs would have to be cut in future.

Senator Callely rejects Committee's findings

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0715/callelyi.html

I wonder were he learnt these tricks?