gaaboard.com

Conflict of interest??

What wil this man be at next..

Where's the conflict?

How does writing an article for the Irish News conflict with his interests as Tyrone football manager? Please explain?

Ziggy - i had nighmares about that dog last night!!!

I couldn't give a shit* if he was writin the pamphlets for mass, I'm just tryin to raise a debate.. It just seems a little strange though that he'll be giving his opinions in the biggest GAA newpspaper on the Island while managing Tyrone. If he can't get out of manager mode then the amount of information published by him would be limited.

I've nothing against the man - it just seems strange for him to have a column..

Any different than After Dinner speeches of pre-All-Ireland inspirational speeches to clubs like the Belfast Camogie team? Nah, Mickey's ok. Thanks for you concern though ;)

I don't think he'll be giving much away in his column - he might be spreading the word !

Better men than Mickey have had to give up newspaper columns due to managerial committments. Sure Sambo gave up "Samob Says..." in the Irish News when he took the reins at Antrim.  ;)

Quote from: GrandMasterFlash on February 02, 2009, 08:08:04 AM
Conflict of interest??

What wil this man be at next..

I would see it as hypocracy if he were to accept money for it.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 01:49:52 PM
I would see it as hypocracy if he were to accept money for it.

Where'd be the hypocrisy in that? It's not like writing articles for newspapers is an amateur domain.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 02:20:54 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 01:49:52 PM
I would see it as hypocracy if he were to accept money for it.

Where'd be the hypocrisy in that? It's not like writing articles for newspapers is an amateur domain.

He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He is hardly being paid for his literary genius or mayby I have missed something. As far as I can see (if he gets paid) he is doing the job because of his profile achieved on the backs of his Gaa players.

If he objects to them being paid, fine. I have no problem with that.

However if he objects to them being paid, using a column for which he is paid, and his being their is only because of his Gaa success, then I see it as hypocracy.   

what is wrong with writing for a paper? Everything he has ever had to say has been worth listening too and I'm an Armagh man

Some people have little to be worrying about  ::)

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

It's not GAA work. It's writing for a paper, and whether the subject matter of his columns is GAA or not, is incidental (and you, or me or anyone, don't know yet what he'll be writing about).

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
He is hardly being paid for his literary genius or mayby I have missed something. As far as I can see (if he gets paid) he is doing the job because of his profile achieved on the backs of his Gaa players.

More assumptions in the dark.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
If he objects to them being paid, fine. I have no problem with that.

However if he objects to them being paid, using a column for which he is paid, and his being their is only because of his Gaa success, then I see it as hypocracy.   

And yet more assumptions in the dark.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 02:20:54 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 01:49:52 PM
I would see it as hypocracy if he were to accept money for it.

Where'd be the hypocrisy in that? It's not like writing articles for newspapers is an amateur domain.

He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He is hardly being paid for his literary genius or mayby I have missed something. As far as I can see (if he gets paid) he is doing the job because of his profile achieved on the backs of his Gaa players.

If he objects to them being paid, fine. I have no problem with that.

However if he objects to them being paid, using a column for which he is paid, and his being their is only because of his Gaa success, then I see it as hypocracy.   

How would it be hypocrisy,
has MH ever preached against getting honest pay for honest work?

I'll look forward to reading his articles.
I suppose that it will an article composed from a telephone interview I doubt that MH's attention to Tyrone  will suffer.

QuoteAs far as I can see (if he gets paid) he is doing the job because of his profile achieved on the backs of his Gaa players

Maybe Tyrone has a high profile because of MH.

Mickey Harte's profile is based on his GAA record and his ability to express himself clearly and concisely in a way that an ordinary joe like myself can understand.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He objects to pay-for-play / grants for inter-county players. He has no problems with anyone making money elsewhere off the back of the GAA, whether that's advertising, work or the media. Bejaysus, who would have a problem with that.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 02:20:54 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 01:49:52 PM
I would see it as hypocracy if he were to accept money for it.

Where'd be the hypocrisy in that? It's not like writing articles for newspapers is an amateur domain.

He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He is hardly being paid for his literary genius or mayby I have missed something. As far as I can see (if he gets paid) he is doing the job because of his profile achieved on the backs of his Gaa players.


If he objects to them being paid, fine. I have no problem with that.

However if he objects to them being paid, using a column for which he is paid, and his being their is only because of his Gaa success, then I see it as hypocracy.   

You picked a very appropriate name for the GAA Board. writing a column for a newspaper is not an amateur sport like Gaelic football.

This is very simple.

I have an opinion.

Hypocracy means saying one thing and doing the opposite.

If he says he is against players getting money for being Gaa players but accepts money for being a Gaa man then it is my opinion that it would be hypocracy.

FOSB of course it is an assumption. ::)

We are short on facts as:
1. we don't know if he will be paid
2. he could be writing on theoretical physics
3. we don't know if he will use the column to speak out against the players.

That is why I said if.

I think the Irish News have fooled all of us by making this annoucement.


You've missed the main point :



The Irish News has gone up to 70p - Mickey's fee must have forced the increase ?


Seriously though, the Irish News have pulled a stroke here - introducing Mickey and masking the rise in the cost.

I'll repeat myself again for you muppet.

Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2009, 02:50:00 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He objects to pay-for-play / grants for inter-county players. He has no problems with anyone making money elsewhere off the back of the GAA, whether that's advertising, work or the media. Bejaysus, who would have a problem with that.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
FOSB of course it is an assumption. ::)

As Ziggy says there muppet, he's very specifically against the payment of monies for play, per se. Fact, and not an assumption in sight!... Which kind of blows a hole below the waterline in your argument. :)

Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2009, 03:03:17 PM
I'll repeat myself again for you muppet.

Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2009, 02:50:00 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:33:40 PM
He publicly objects to his Gaa players getting any money so why can't I object to him getting money for Gaa work?

He objects to pay-for-play / grants for inter-county players. He has no problems with anyone making money elsewhere off the back of the GAA, whether that's advertising, work or the media. Bejaysus, who would have a problem with that.

[/b]

How many current players make money from the list you mentioned?

I would suggest there are a lot of former managers who benefit from that list.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 03:05:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 02:58:56 PM
FOSB of course it is an assumption. ::)

As Ziggy says there muppet, he's very specifically against the payment of monies for play, per se. Fact, and not an assumption in sight!... Which kind of blows a hole below the waterline in your argument. :)

Which of course in real terms that means 'monies for play'ers. Which refloats my ship thank you.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 03:08:57 PM
Which of course in real terms that means 'monies for play'ers. Which refloats my ship thank you.

Yes, but not for playing Gaelic Games. MH will not be paid for playing Gaelic Games either, if he's paid at all. So you're still foundered, and it's a sharp rock.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 03:21:27 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 03:08:57 PM
Which of course in real terms that means 'monies for play'ers. Which refloats my ship thank you.

Yes, but not for playing Gaelic Games. MH will not be paid for playing Gaelic Games either, if he's paid at all. So you're still foundered, and it's a sharp rock.

So your argument is that he is against some Gaa people getting paid for something he doesn't do, but has no problem getting paid for his type of Gaa person?

FFS muppet, where has Harte ever said GAA players cannot get paid for advertising, work and the media off the back of the GAA, but he can??

Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2009, 03:41:36 PM
FFS muppet, where has Harte ever said GAA players cannot get paid for advertising, work and the media off the back of the GAA, but he can??

Ziggy I never said that.

What i was trying to say was that very few current players earn money that way. However lots of managers or former managers do earn money that way.

I have no problem with a principled objection to anyone whether it is a player, manager or water carrier, getting money in the Gaa. It is an amateur assocation or at least it pretends to be. I also have no problem with people who voice this objection publicly.

Equally I have no problem with people who earn money because of their personal profile in the Gaa.

My opinion is that if anyone did the former and the latter that it would be hypocracy.

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 03:49:36 PM

Quote from: ziggysego on February 02, 2009, 03:41:36 PM
FFS muppet, where has Harte ever said GAA players cannot get paid for advertising, work and the media off the back of the GAA, but he can??

Ziggy I never said that.

What i was trying to say was that very few current players earn money that way. However lots of managers or former managers do earn money that way.

I have no problem with a principled objection to anyone whether it is a player, manager or water carrier, getting money in the Gaa. It is an amateur assocation or at least it pretends to be. I also have no problem with people who voice this objection publicly.

Equally I have no problem with people who earn money because of their personal profile in the Gaa.

My opinion that if anyone did the former and the latter that it would be hypocracy.

But Mickey hasn't, so why are you going on about?

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 03:25:33 PM
So your argument is that he is against some Gaa people getting paid for something he doesn't do, but has no problem getting paid for his type of Gaa person?

Jeez, you'll have to do a bit better than that, that's simply gross misrepresentation/distortion. Simple: no pay for play, and only pay for play, and there's no hypocrisy in that.

Edit: Neither did MH ever look for money as a club and county player, nor have a go at Canavan for the few bob he makes for his columns.

If it was John O'Mahony or a Mayo player who was writing a column whilst still involved with the county team, on one hand I would welcome the insight into proceedings but, on the other hand, I would see it as a potential distraction for the manager/player. Especially if they're team became involved in something controversial during the year and, as a columnist, the player/manager had to comment on it. That would be where there would be an issue.

Mickey Harte is likely to be the best placed manager to write a column as he is the most secure in his job. But, the question remains, what if there is a massive row in the Armagh v Tyrone first round clash, four players are sent off, there's crowd trouble. Would Mickey Harte feel comfortable writing a column then? I doubt it.

From the newspapers point of view its a great appointment as it will be well read and they couldn't give a toss about whether someone will be compromised or not, so long as they don't ignore the issue at hand, whatever it may be.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 02, 2009, 04:27:11 PM
Mickey Harte is likely to be the best placed manager to write a column as he is the most secure in his job. But, the question remains, what if there is a massive row in the Armagh v Tyrone first round clash, four players are sent off, there's crowd trouble. Would Mickey Harte feel comfortable writing a column then? I doubt it.

Fair point RAGS, but he's savvy enough not to stir things or use it as an apologist platform. I'd imagine he'll be writing more in the abstract than the specific, and steering well clear of the pitfalls and pratfalls.

Edit: And several of the hierarchy just might be feeling a little uncomfortable under the collar, particularly those involved with the 'International Rules', for there's one specific that he'll be more than happy to expound upon, ad nauseam.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 04:36:52 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 02, 2009, 04:27:11 PM
Mickey Harte is likely to be the best placed manager to write a column as he is the most secure in his job. But, the question remains, what if there is a massive row in the Armagh v Tyrone first round clash, four players are sent off, there's crowd trouble. Would Mickey Harte feel comfortable writing a column then? I doubt it.

Fair point RAGS, but he's savvy enough not to stir things or use it as an apologist platform. I'd imagine he'll be writing more in the abstract than the specific, and steering well clear of the pitfalls and pratfalls.

I guess it depends on how the columnn is set out but I presume the Irish News would be hoping for a fair bit of insight into the inner workings. Harte is probably savvy enough to have been able to get the gig without having to mention too much about Tyrone. But, nonetheless, if there is something that is the talk of the country and its a controversy involving Tyrone, Harte will look stupid if he doesn't comment. Just putting himself in a slightly awkward position but then there's every chance there'll be no controversy involving Tyrone

I'll look forward to reading his column, but i have to say that as GrandMasterFlash said, there could be some conflict from one point of view - for example, is Mickey going to analyse/comment on Jack O'Connor's performance/Kerry's training or onfield tactics and then have to line out against Kerry later in the year? (You could of course apply this to any team that Tyrone may meet.) Might that not be awkward or inappropriate for a serving manager?

He can't write a weekly column about the GPA/International Rules/Pay for Play etc constantly (if he did, it would be hard to keep it interesting), so surely he'll have to touch on 'team/player/manager specific' topics such as those i mentioned.

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 02, 2009, 04:53:32 PM
He can't write a weekly column about the GPA/International Rules/Pay for Play etc constantly (if he did, it would be hard to keep it interesting), so surely he'll have to touch on 'team/player/manager specific' topics such as those i mentioned.

He's not just involved with football these days, there's boxing too, for one.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 04:55:31 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 02, 2009, 04:53:32 PM
He can't write a weekly column about the GPA/International Rules/Pay for Play etc constantly (if he did, it would be hard to keep it interesting), so surely he'll have to touch on 'team/player/manager specific' topics such as those i mentioned.

He's not just involved with football these days, there's boxing too, for one.

Let's not forget our most high holy God and Jesus Christ the saviour and all the angels and saints.

According to the paper, he's to be a GAA columnist.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 03:53:54 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 03:25:33 PM
So your argument is that he is against some Gaa people getting paid for something he doesn't do, but has no problem getting paid for his type of Gaa person?

Jeez, you'll have to do a bit better than that, that's simply gross misrepresentation/distortion. Simple: no pay for play, and only pay for play, and there's no hypocrisy in that.

Edit: Neither did MH ever look for money as a club and county player, nor have a go at Canavan for the few bob he makes for his columns.

That's simply gross misrepresentation/distortion.  ;D

What about grants for training (which cannot be described as pay for play) or more particularly the prospect of players striking to get the grants? I am not taking a position on the issue of players receiving money here, I am just suggesting that if he did and subsequently took money to talk about it, then in my opinion that would be hypocritical.

QuoteEdit: Neither did MH ever look for money as a club and county player, nor have a go at Canavan for the few bob he makes for his columns.

I never said he did, I wouldn't know.

I may have imagined it, but didn't Mickey write a column for the ill fated "The Game" publication?

I think you maybe right tyrone86.

Quote from: tyrone86 on February 02, 2009, 06:44:18 PM
I may have imagined it, but didn't Mickey write a column for the ill fated "The Game" publication?

Loved Eamon Coleman's articles. It must have been a dictation job as twas just a stream of thought on anything.

Are we sure its the bearded one and not the also quite famous Mickey Joe Harte who could write a column on the fortunes of Lifford Naomh Padraig and Donegal GAA in general?  It could be a bit like the celebrity out and about columns you get in the Sun or the Star..."Devenney spotted last night with Gráinne Seoige eating chips in Bundoran" etc

Quote from: Caid on February 02, 2009, 07:24:22 PM

Are we sure its the bearded one and not the also quite famous Mickey Joe Harte who could write a column on the fortunes of Lifford Naomh Padraig and Donegal GAA in general?  It could be a bit like the celebrity out and about columns you get in the Sun or the Star..."Devenney spotted last night with Gráinne Seoige eating chips in Bundoran" etc

Where can I get a copy?

Quote from: Caid on February 02, 2009, 07:24:22 PM

Are we sure its the bearded one and not the also quite famous Mickey Joe Harte who could write a column on the fortunes of Lifford Naomh Padraig and Donegal GAA in general?  It could be a bit like the celebrity out and about columns you get in the Sun or the Star..."Devenney spotted last night with Gráinne Seoige eating chips in Bundoran" etc

We need a good news story to cheer us up, how about 'Mugsy spotted snogging Jade Goody on nudist beach in Granard during fireworks display'?

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 06:39:22 PM

What about grants for training (which cannot be described as pay for play) or more particularly the prospect of players striking to get the grants? I am not taking a position on the issue of players receiving money here, I am just suggesting that if he did and subsequently took money to talk about it, then in my opinion that would be hypocritical.

Another totally blind assumption, and it's your prerogative to assume, which so far on this thread has only made an ass out of you, not me  ;)

It's fairly simple to me on reading the article; 'will give his take on major issues on and off the pitch' and 'Mickey will take his position on the Friday column'. If that's not a) a column or b) conflicting with his primary job then I need to get literary lessons..

  Either way, as has been stated, Tyrone will hardly suffer but it can/will be difficult for him to comment on incidents if Tyrone or Tyrone's opponents are involved.

A lot of excitement over nothing. As a current manager he'll have absolutely nothing of any note to say on anything outside of Tyrone in case he makes someone cry. Current players, managers etc are bloody useless at this thing in any sport.

Listening to Oisin talk - thats hardly surprising.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 02, 2009, 09:11:30 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 02, 2009, 06:39:22 PM

What about grants for training (which cannot be described as pay for play) or more particularly the prospect of players striking to get the grants? I am not taking a position on the issue of players receiving money here, I am just suggesting that if he did and subsequently took money to talk about it, then in my opinion that would be hypocritical.

Another totally blind assumption, and it's your prerogative to assume, which so far on this thread has only made an ass out of you, not me  ;)

And you think that the above is an argument? Or even a position??

If it is worthy of debate then surely you can deliver even half an argument, instead capitulation disguised as an insult.

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:13:46 AM
If it is worthy of debate then surely you can deliver even half an argument, instead capitulation disguised as an insult.

Why don't you wait until something is actually printed, instead of uninformed conjecture, and then engage in your righteous indignation. Or alternatively, lighten up.

Benny Tierney wrote his column every week when he was a member of the Armagh management team, apart from terrible lame jokes about 'er indoors' it wasn't a bad read.  Was never controversial and deliberately non-confrontational which must have been difficult for an Armagh man  ;)

I dont think you have to be controversial to write a column every week - Harry Redknapp writes a column for one of the UK papers and it doesnt seem to be a conflict of interest! Mickey will more than likely give his view on the weeks games and repeat what he says in every press conference about tyrone's preparations and performances! Dont be expecting insights and controversy!!

Quote from: BennyHarp on February 03, 2009, 11:41:55 AM
I dont think you have to be controversial to write a column every week - Harry Redknapp writes a column for one of the UK papers and it doesnt seem to be a conflict of interest! Mickey will more than likely give his view on the weeks games and repeat what he says in every press conference about tyrone's preparations and performances! Dont be expecting insights and controversy!!

No, but you do have to write something interesting enough for people to want to read.

A star name should offer at least one of these two things:

- An expert insight into the world of county football, in a non-footballing way (lifestyle, personalities, etc)
- An expert opinion on what has happened, and what will happen, on the actual field.

If they can't provide that, then you might as well have Christine Bleakley writing the column. At least her mugshot would be worth looking at twice.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 09:16:12 AM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:13:46 AM
If it is worthy of debate then surely you can deliver even half an argument, instead capitulation disguised as an insult.

Why don't you wait until something is actually printed, instead of uninformed conjecture, and then engage in your righteous indignation. Or alternatively, lighten up.

All along I said if. It is hypothesis. Most people do it every day of their lives. You will probably do it on this forum before Tyrone matches this summer. You seem to think that shouting the word assumption all the time wins your argument. It isn't even a valid point.

And as for lightening up, you are the one who won't accept that I am entitled to my opinion. I'm not the one trying to persuade anyone to think differently.

A lot of resentment here towards Mickey. He must be doing something right  :)

Exclusive, Mickey Harte's first column for the Irish News, what a scoop!...


Brave New Gaelic World

A Chairde,

I am delighted to be given this opportunity to spread the Gaelic Gospel through the good pages of the Irish News.

First off, may I take this opportunity to state that all money secured from this venture shall be channelled to a very worthy and charitable cause – a new king-size Slumberland orthopaedic bed for Jack O'Connor of Dromid Pearses in Kerry, with one-foot thick sumptuous pillows of the softest duck-down feathers and a king-size duck-down dream-duvet, since I hear he's be having a serious amount of sleepless nights over the last few years, and his nightmares have been particularly garish, ghoulish and instrusive since September 21st last. Once Jack is sorted out (the third Sunday of September '09 should finish him off nicely), I'll look about doing a few more deserving managerial cases. They are all human, after all.


At this juncture, a full four months and more since our most recent All-Ireland triumph, I am finally in a position to reveal the secret of our success in 2008: facial hair, and my advice to every player for 2009 would be to grow your facial hair as long as humanly possible, preferably to football boot length and beyond; and we are already in the process of framing the wording of the blood-or-death-pact for 2009.


We have a tough opener in the Ulster Championship against the current holders Armagh, and I can guarantee here and now we'll be in tip-top-tip-top shape for this particular assignment. After the disappointment of losing to Down in the replay last year we really don't want a repeat of that one, so we're really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really going to go all out to win that particular one, so, beware Armagh (really).

And finally, a couple of words about the value of sound sports psychology on the sporting field: very important.

I couldn't care less whether he writes or not or what he writes but they didn't have to put the price up to pay him!

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:16:06 PM
And as for lightening up, you are the one who won't accept that I am entitled to my opinion. I'm not the one trying to persuade anyone to think differently.

But, even if he does write about football it's not hypocrisy: he's writing, not playing Gaelic Games, and he has never begrudged anyone making a bob or two as a spin-off from their participation in Gaelic Games. That's what you have failed to grasp, that they are two separate spheres, and not even two sides of the one coin.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 03:43:20 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:16:06 PM
And as for lightening up, you are the one who won't accept that I am entitled to my opinion. I'm not the one trying to persuade anyone to think differently.

But, even if he does write about football it's not hypocrisy: he's writing, not playing Gaelic Games, and he has never begrudged anyone making a bob or two as a spin-off from their participation in Gaelic Games. That's what you have failed to grasp, that they are two separate spheres, and not even two sides of the one coin.

Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

I'll leave it to George Bernard Shaw:

"He was at a party once and he told this woman that everyone would agree to do anything for money, if the price was high enough. `Surely not, she said.' `Oh yes,' he said. `Well, I wouldn't,' she said. `Oh yes you would,' he said. `For instance,' he said, `would you sleep with me for... for a million pounds?' `Well,' she said, `maybe for a million I would, yes.' `Would you do it for ten shillings?' said Bernard Shaw. `Certainly not!' said the woman `What do you take me for? A prostitute?' `We've established that already,' said Bernard Shaw. `We're just trying to fix your price now!' "

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 04:12:27 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money?  ::)

I oppose government grants for GAA players and have done so publicly. I support government grants for radon remediation works on private houses and will accept one if I get it.

Am I a hypocrite?

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:27:20 PM
I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

And as has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread already muppet, and which you seem to be singularly incapable of absorbing: Mickey Harte has no problem with people making money out of the GAA, repeat none! He has an issue with the amateur status of players and in keeping it that way, and players only, as in his view payment of players will be to the detriment of Gaelic Games, and by extension to the detriment of the GAA. So therefore he does not do both, and your fundamental premise is fatally flawed. If you want to keep a closed mind on the basis of that misconception be my guest, for I do now see that there's no further point in debating this point with you.

None so blind as those who will not see.

Muppet, I have to agree with FOSB. Mickey has only ever said he doesn't believe in Pay for play. He's never given out about a player getting a job over another better qualified person because of who he is rather than what he does, which lets be honest isn't unheard of. It wouldn't be too hard to name players who picked up jobs easy enough because of who they are. Now if Mickey had came out and condemned this then I'd say you'd have a point on the hypocrisy but I just think your comparing two different views on two separate issues. Mickey doesn't believe in Pay for play and has spoken out against it. Mickey has as far as I know never given out about a GAA player picking up a job because of who he is, which is what Mickey has done.  

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 04:43:06 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:27:20 PM
I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

And as has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread already muppet, and which you seem to be singularly incapable of absorbing: Mickey Harte has no problem with people making money out of the GAA, repeat none! He has an issue with the amateur status of players and in keeping it that way, and players only, as in his view payment of players will be to the detriment of Gaelic Games, and by extension to the detriment of the GAA. So therefore he does not do both, and your fundamental premise is fatally flawed. If you want to keep a closed mind on the basis of that misconception be my guest, for I do now see that there's no further point in debating this point with you.

None so blind as those who will not see.

I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:27:20 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 04:12:27 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money?

Are you for real?

Quote from: Malone Aristocrat on February 03, 2009, 04:51:17 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:27:20 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 04:12:27 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
Getting paid means taking money no matter which way you look at it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

Taking your viewpoint to it's logical conclusion: you have a problem with every writer who gets paid for writing columns or books about amateur activities, from amateur macramé to origami, correct? If not, why the inconsistency? (In your own words this time)

Read what I have posted many times.

I have no problem with people who make money out of the Gaa.

Likewise I have no problem with those who campaign to maintain its amateur status.

However, anyone who does both in my opinion is a hypocrite. It is merely my opinion and nothing you will post here will change it. Accept it.

So, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, Have any of that list publicly attacked others seeking money?

Are you for real?

Sorry MA I missed the word official. However any paid official who publicly attacked others in the association would also be hypocrites in my opinion.

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

There you go again: he IS NOT taking money because of his participation in the GAA, he may be getting paid for writing a column, which is NOT the same thing.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 08:06:22 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 04:49:50 PM
I'll ignore your constant patronising and simply restate that it is my opinion that if someone publicly objects to one part of an association making money but has no problem taking money themselves, because of their participation in that same assocation, then they are hypocrites.

There you go again: he IS NOT taking money because of his participation in the GAA, he may be getting paid for writing a column, which is NOT the same thing.

What is the column about?

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 08:14:16 PM
What is the column about?

What is your obsession? FFS it doesn't matter, he's getting paid (probably) for putting the necessary effort into writing a column for a newspaper that's fit for publication. Simple as.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 03, 2009, 08:17:21 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 03, 2009, 08:14:16 PM
What is the column about?

What is your obsession? FFS it doesn't matter, he's getting paid (probably) for putting the necessary effort into writing a column for a newspaper that's fit for publication. Simple as.

You call me obsessed?  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I wonder what MH's reaction would be if one of his star players (or Mugsy for that matter :o ) were offered the opportunity to pencil a column for a rival newspaper, would MH have any right to say to the player in question to desist from such ramblings - or would the threat be implicit in that he would drop him from the first 15.

Now that would be hypocritical from MH.

ps you're a star Mugsy.

Muppet, do you believe Mickey should not have written his book in 2003 if he was receiving money?
Do you honestly believe that because he opposes PFP he should desist from putting pen to paper on GAA matters for fear of getting a couple of punts from it?

If your answer to both is yes, then you've a fairly warped interpretation of what amateur and professional status, and ones oppostion or support for it, actually means.

What about this damned hypocrite? Getting his few bob for his Hoganstand column, yet calling for the amateur status of players to remain intact, and getting paid for writing about that very same thing!

KEVIN McSTAY column
17 February 2006

Professionalism is not a route best taken

The provincial leagues masquerade as the first serious blows of the season but the veteran GAA fan knows they constitute nothing more than springtime shadow boxing. Yet the crowds have turned out in record numbers to get their first sightings of teams that are under strength, experimental at best and certainly in challenge game mode. It proves, I suppose, that we are living in a very special time for the game of Gaelic football.

Indeed you could argue that the GAA never had it so good - a magnificent new stadium to play host to our national games, Rule 42 relaxed to allow HQ play host to some international games and as mentioned above, big attendances. Throw in the queue of television stations that want to give us live broadcast of our leagues, college and university finals, the championship summer, ladies football and camogie and of course our first cousins from the compromise/international rules series.
There is little question but the skill and fitness levels coupled with the intensity of the games at all levels has made for better contests and up to a dozen teams now harbour ambitions of attaining provincial and All Ireland goals.

The downside, strange to report, concerns the increased income flows that this GAA 'Celtic Tiger Sporting Explosion' has delivered. When the FAI and IRFU are finished their rental agreements for 2007, the GAA will lodge the best part of a cool 10 million euro. Nice work if you can get it. And this particular stream may flow for another few years beyond this while the nation awaits the new stadium on the Southside.

Downside? Afraid so, for as soon as the boys from the GPA completed the maths, the call went out. Grants, increased expenses, a play for pay survey and a couple of well-orchestrated solo runs by high profile players to keep the topic at the top of the sports pages hit the unsuspecting public. The GAA had better get to grips with this for a spark (and it is a little more than that at this stage) neglected can lead to a great fire.

A sport searching for and struggling to find, a solution to the problem of an amateur era attempting to somehow transform into a quasi-professional model, is a phenomenon that is neither new nor exclusive. Rugby in this island walked the path some years ago, so we have a certain type of template to guide us. But I expect no model exists that reflects the traditions and history of the GAA so we can expect difficulties along the way.

It is my strongly held opinion that the association and the players must stay well away from the idea of full time professional engagements. I retired from inter county football almost 16 years ago and in the interim the way players prepare for and play the game has changed dramatically. In fact, it is nearly unrecognisable. The organisation of your sporting week is now as close to professionalism as makes little odds.

At the time we felt the sacrifices were great too but understood very clearly that we, like those who trained us, had volunteered our services and could walk away at any time if we felt we had more important things to do with our lives. By the way, that option still applies to both sides today.
We trained twice a week, fairly hard usually and had a training game on the Saturday and maybe a club or challenge game on the Sunday. The NFL started in October and there was a game every fortnight and a break usually for December and January. Off again in the springtime and usually an exit by the end of March from the league. Another two month break as we eyed the championship! The modern inter county player might laugh at this schedule, especially as it might not compare favourably with a top-level club team in 2006.

No games midweek, no games under lights, few meetings and only a little bit of weights, nutrition and psychology. Over the past few years I decided to sneak into the training sessions of teams I admire from afar so that I can judge for myself how training is going and what type of drills and intensity they apply. It proves that every minute is accounted for and any coach worth his salt has planned the evening and not a single minute will be wasted. The end result is perfectly tuned athletes but the cost to the player is one of time and serious commitment.

To get to and remain at this elite level is not easy and players very often park family, social educational and career responsibilities. The man that sets these standards is exclusively the manager and if he has a few like minded players so much the better. And getting the best manager for your team is often a costly business. This is where the GAA money comes in - there are counties, supporters and business people prepared to do all in their power to get the best, because his expertise and knowledge when dovetailed with a talented crop of players often leads to unimagined levels of success.

But the players are beginning to get envious and want a slice of the action. They obviously do not realise the short life span of a modern manager - those in charge are hired to be fired - or the workload involved. At inter county level it is almost a second full time job; at club standard certainly a twenty five-hour week (three sessions and a match at an average of five hours each and throw in telephone and meeting time) if you are serious about success.

I cannot deny that players have a strong case for certain allowances - travel, accommodation, food, kit and most importantly, loss of earnings due to their football. But the GPA jumped the gun a little and their argument is not well thought out. This extra money will be for a three-year cycle at best before it slows to a trickle. Long term funding for grant aid needs a fixed source of funding - a percentage of league gates, sponsorship from the title sponsor, etc but not one that changes from year to year. At any rate we need a position paper from the GPA that sets out the road map for the next 10-20 years.

When the applause begins to fade and retirement from the playing fields comes into focus, players will have all the time in the world to become managers or pundits or part time columnists if that is their fancy, but they can hardly lay claim to owning the association and thus be in charge of its future. As players we played for the enjoyment, the contest, the fun and the friendships. We played for the pride we had in the jersey and the colours. Today, footballers play for all those reasons too and in my opinion those are reasons enough to keep you at it. If you are lucky enough to play in finals and win them then you are one of the chosen few and those memories are priceless.

And I'll finish with an obvious question: it is late January as I type these words and 50%-60% of clubs are unable to find suitable managers. Money is not the problem - every club is able to offer reasonable rates. So, why all the vacancies if it is so lucrative? The figures rarely stack up if you are honest and I know plenty of managers who ended up in the red as a result of their passion for certain appointments. These matters are rarely tracked by straight lines.

Damning evidence there Fear.

I also think that any players who want the game to stay amateur should not accept jobs where they are expected to teach anything to do with Gaelic Games as they are obviously working and using their experience from Playing Gaelic.

So being a PE teacher in schools is out.

Pundits on TV who want to keep the game amateur are also hypocrits. They are getting paid to talk about it, so them out too.

::)

Edit for terrible spelling

Quote from: Doohicky on February 04, 2009, 01:18:04 PM

So being a PE teacher in scholls is out.

Wooden disagree as that would be a sandal.

Quote from: drici on February 04, 2009, 01:37:00 PM

Quote from: Doohicky on February 04, 2009, 01:18:04 PM

So being a PE teacher in scholls is out.

Wooden disagree as that would be a sandal.

I thought that was common Practice, Brian Gormley was a PE teacher in Strabane.

O'Neill the warped idea of what professionalism is actually that one type of Gaa man receiving money is ok while another is taboo. Even better that the former publicly lambasts the latter and even better again if they get paid for doing so..

The Gaa is not an amateur association. People need to get their heads out of their arses and face the facts or the whole thing will go into meltdown. Look at Cork.

I dont support PFP either but I believe a huge opportunity was missed with the Grants episode. Players could have been forced to sign an agreement (preventing strikes, player revolts over managers etc) in return for receipt of the grant. This could still be done and if certain people had supported the idea it could have been a much more permanent solution.

Instead some high profile Gaa people took to attacking the players while at the same time making money from their own Gaa fame. You don't see a conflict, fine. I accept that. I however do see a conflict.

FASB as I suspected, your argument was not ideological merely a defense of your local manager. You found a Mayo pundit with the same position as Harte. Do you think I will change my mind because he is from Mayo?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
O'Neill the warped idea of what professionalism is actually that one type of Gaa man receiving money is ok while another is taboo. Even better that the former publicly lambasts the latter and even better again if they get paid for doing so..

A tad simplistic, perhaps? Personally I don't see anything wrong in Pat Spillane getting paid for presenting the Sunday Game. Do you?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
I dont support PFP either but I believe a huge opportunity was missed with the Grants episode. Players could have been forced to sign an agreement (preventing strikes, player revolts over managers etc) in return for receipt of the grant. This could still be done and if certain people had supported the idea it could have been a much more permanent solution.

But would it have been worth the paper it was written on? Remember, the Cork hurlers signed an agreement last February committing not to go on strike again.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
FASB as I suspected, your argument was not ideological merely a defense of your local manager.

Mickey Harte doesn't manage my own county and still I agree with FOSB on this issue.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
FASB as I suspected, your argument was not ideological merely a defense of your local manager. You found a Mayo pundit with the same position as Harte. Do you think I will change my mind because he is from Mayo?

It's not a defence of my local manager muppet, it's a defence of principle. Kevin Mc Stay, and any other ex-player who gave so much of their time and effort free for the love of the games at one stage, are more than welcome to whatever few bob comes their way now by dint of that previous amateur participation. Nor do I, unlike yourself, begrudge those GAA sporting figures of yesteryear that have turned a bob or two with an autobiography or such, even if they yet extol the virtues of player amateurism.

And for the record, I believe there to be too many salaried positions within the GAA today, but that doesn't make it a professsional organisation, i.e., if it weren't for the amateurs there'd be no GAA; can you name one single other 'professional' sports organisation anywhere in the world that would cease to be if the amateurs within its ranks ceased to be?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 03:59:05 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
FASB as I suspected, your argument was not ideological merely a defense of your local manager. You found a Mayo pundit with the same position as Harte. Do you think I will change my mind because he is from Mayo?

QuoteIt's not a defence of my local manager muppet, it's a defence of principle. Kevin Mc Stay, and any other ex-player who gave so much of their time and effort free for the love of the games at one stage, are more than welcome to whatever few bob comes their way now by dint of that previous amateur participation. Nor do I, unlike yourself, begrudge those GAA sporting figures of yesteryear that have turned a bob or two with an autobiography or such, even if they yet extol the virtues of player amateurism.

I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.

Quote
And for the record, I believe there to be too many salaried positions within the GAA today, but that doesn't make it a professsional organisation, i.e., if it weren't for the amateurs there'd be no GAA; can you name one single other 'professional' sports organisation anywhere in the world that would cease to be if the amateurs within its ranks ceased to be?

I agree there are too many salaried positions within the Gaa. Almost every 'professional' sports organise in the world would collapse if there was no amateurs working at grassroots level. Imagine the state of soccer in this country if the game consisted only of the League of Ireland. Imagine rugby without the schools and clubs.

We all know that there are officials that are paid, we all know there are managers who are paid (without the slightest tremor here not even a thread dedicated to it) and we know there are players that are paid down to underage level.

We delude ourselves by rationalising things away as expenses, mileage, administrative fees but as long as we dont give players a salary we call ourselves amateur. Not only that but if we publicly protest against any players' claim we seem to re-assure ourselves of our purity.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.

And as I've pointed out repeatedly: neither MH nor KMcS are campaigning against others getting a few bob for what they get a few bob for, nor are they saying they should get paid for what others get nothing for, therefore no hypocrisy -- playing and writing-about-playing are not the same thing, they're not even close, or are you saying that those who write about, say, Nazism are as bad as the Nazis or are somehow complicit?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
I agree there are too many salaried positions within the Gaa. Almost every 'professional' sports organise in the world would collapse if there was no amateurs working at grassroots level. Imagine the state of soccer in this country if the game consisted only of the League of Ireland. Imagine rugby without the schools and clubs.

The League of Ireland would not collapse in the morning, not that it's particularly alive anyway. But the LoI does not need amateurs on a day-to-day basis to function. And neither would the RFU.  Yes, they may atrophy and die, eventually, but that is not the same thing. I'm talking about an immediate collapse, not a withering.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 04:47:21 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.

And as I've pointed out repeatedly: neither MH nor KMcS are campaigning against others getting a few bob for what they get a few bob for, nor are they saying they should get paid for what others get nothing for, therefore no hypocrisy -- playing and writing-about-playing are not the same thing, they're not even close, or are you saying that those who write about, say, Nazism are as bad as the Nazis or are somehow complicit?

If those who wrote about Nazis were former or current Nazis then you might have a comparison. (Why is the world obsessed with comparing everything to Nazis, witness the Gaza Israel conflict?).

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 04:33:55 PM
I agree there are too many salaried positions within the Gaa. Almost every 'professional' sports organise in the world would collapse if there was no amateurs working at grassroots level. Imagine the state of soccer in this country if the game consisted only of the League of Ireland. Imagine rugby without the schools and clubs.

Quote
The League of Ireland would not collapse in the morning, not that it's particularly alive anyway. But the LoI does not need amateurs on a day-to-day basis to function. And neither would the RFU.  Yes, they may atrophy and die, eventually, but that is not the same thing. I'm talking about an immediate collapse, not a withering.

Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent.

I believe that the Gaa is where Rugby Union was in the 1980s, deluding itself that it was an amateur association. 

^{I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.}


You see this is were the disagreement is. And it's just going round in circles. Your equating any sort of payment for anthing related to GAA as the same as PFP. We  (myself, Oneill, FOSB) obviously don't. As said before I've no problem with someone getting a bit of a edge from their position in GAA, be it getting a job on the back of it etc. I've no problem with pundits getting paid and wouldn't class it as the same as PFP. And like I've said I don't believe Mickey has ever spoken out against this. However I wouldn't be in favour of PFP, which MH has spoken out against.

It's just two different views. I can't see anyone turning round and conceding the other to be right no matter how much it's discussed.

muppet, you believe that

a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

I believe that

a) the opposite

b) the opposite.

That's a wrap.

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
^{I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.}


You see this is were the disagreement is. And it's just going round in circles. Your equating any sort of payment for anthing related to GAA as the same as PFP. We  (myself, Oneill, FOSB) obviously don't. As said before I've no problem with someone getting a bit of a edge from their position in GAA, be it getting a job on the back of it etc. I've no problem with pundits getting paid and wouldn't class it as the same as PFP. And like I've said I don't believe Mickey has ever spoken out against this. However I wouldn't be in favour of PFP, which MH has spoken out against.

It's just two different views. I can't see anyone turning round and conceding the other to be right no matter how much it's discussed.

You are spinning his opposition as merely being against PFP. If PFP is out but expenses are in then where does that leave grants? He promised to lead a Tyrone team in the event of a players strike. He could have kept quiet like almost every other manager but he didn't.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html)

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 05:04:24 PM
muppet, you believe that

a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

It certainly does matter if that wish is public or private. That is the point. My problem is that they are paid (we dont know this for certain hence the 'if') for making their opinions public and this particular opinion is anti-others getting paid.

Quote
b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Where the f*ck did I say that? I just answered your question where would another sports association cease without amateurs.

Quote
I believe that

a) the opposite

b) the opposite.

That's a wrap.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:10:38 PM

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
^{I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.}


You see this is were the disagreement is. And it's just going round in circles. Your equating any sort of payment for anthing related to GAA as the same as PFP. We  (myself, Oneill, FOSB) obviously don't. As said before I've no problem with someone getting a bit of a edge from their position in GAA, be it getting a job on the back of it etc. I've no problem with pundits getting paid and wouldn't class it as the same as PFP. And like I've said I don't believe Mickey has ever spoken out against this. However I wouldn't be in favour of PFP, which MH has spoken out against.

It's just two different views. I can't see anyone turning round and conceding the other to be right no matter how much it's discussed.

You are spinning his opposition as merely being against PFP. If PFP is out but expenses are in then where does that leave grants? He promised to lead a Tyrone team in the event of a players strike. He could have kept quiet like almost every other manager but he didn't.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html)

Because he doesn't believe in getting paid for playing. So there was no reason for him to stay quiet. He said what he believed. But he never mentioned anyone not getting paid for a doing a job. Whether they got it on the merits of their position in the GAA or not. 

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 05:27:56 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:10:38 PM

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 05:01:48 PM
^{I have never said I begrudge them a few bob. What I said, yet again, is that I find it hypocritical when they campaign agsint others getting a few bob while getting a few bob.}


You see this is were the disagreement is. And it's just going round in circles. Your equating any sort of payment for anthing related to GAA as the same as PFP. We  (myself, Oneill, FOSB) obviously don't. As said before I've no problem with someone getting a bit of a edge from their position in GAA, be it getting a job on the back of it etc. I've no problem with pundits getting paid and wouldn't class it as the same as PFP. And like I've said I don't believe Mickey has ever spoken out against this. However I wouldn't be in favour of PFP, which MH has spoken out against.

It's just two different views. I can't see anyone turning round and conceding the other to be right no matter how much it's discussed.

You are spinning his opposition as merely being against PFP. If PFP is out but expenses are in then where does that leave grants? He promised to lead a Tyrone team in the event of a players strike. He could have kept quiet like almost every other manager but he didn't.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html)

Because he doesn't believe in getting paid for playing. So there was no reason for him to stay quiet. He said what he believed. But he never mentioned anyone not getting paid for a doing a job. Whether they got it on the merits of their position in the GAA or not. 

The proposed strike was for grants not pay for play.

But the point of this whole tread is that Mickey has never spoken out against a GAA person getting paid for a job, whether they've got this on the back of their position in the GAA or not. And this is what has happened with Mickey's appointment to the IN. He's still going to be doing a job which as far as I'm concerned deserved to be paid. I don't find this conflicting with my opinion that there shouldn't be PFP.
Whether it'll help his position as Tyrone manager is another subject but I find no hypocrisy involved.

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 05:45:52 PM
But the point of this whole tread is that Mickey has never spoken out against a GAA person getting paid for a job, whether they've got this on the back of their position in the GAA or not. And this is what has happened with Mickey's appointment to the IN. He's still going to be doing a job which as far as I'm concerned deserved to be paid. I don't find this conflicting with my opinion that there shouldn't be PFP.
Whether it'll help his position as Tyrone manager is another subject but I find no hypocrisy involved.

No matter how you spin it he spoke out against his own players taking action seeking money.

I'm not spinning. He did. and Ive no problem in that. It just seems to be you that is making the jump from players getting money for playing the sport and people doing a job and getting paid for it.

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 06:02:32 PM
I'm not spinning. He did. and Ive no problem in that. It just seems to be you that is making the jump from players getting money for playing the sport and people doing a job and getting paid for it.

Yes it seems to be just me here.

We have a tiered amateur association and we rationalise away the obvious anomalies while demonising anyone that challenges the farce.

I would like to see a true amateur association but I think we are way beyond that now.

If he doesn't take money, expenses aside, for the Tyrone job then there is zero hypocricy in this.

He's getting paid as a journalist here or for opinions which will help sell journalist stories - either way he's getting paid in a journalistic capacity and not as a GAA man. Yes he got his rep there but so what.

Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2009, 06:08:11 PM
If he doesn't take money, expenses aside, for the Tyrone job then there is zero hypocricy in this.

He's getting paid as a journalist here or for opinions which will help sell journalist stories - either way he's getting paid in a journalistic capacity and not as a GAA man. Yes he got his rep there but so what.

He has been hired as a Gaa columnist. It is reasonable to assume he will only discuss Gaa matters. It is also reasonable to assume that if he wasn't Mickey Harte Tyrone's Gaa All-Ireland winning manager he wouldn't be there. Like I said I've no problem with any of this.

But if he (and anyone else, this isn't just about Harte) took money for opining that others shouldn't get money, then I have a problem.

Again this is were we'll have to disagree. To me Mickey might be getting hired as a GAA columinist, but that's the point. He's getting hired to do a job, not to manage. To me I see no problem with pay for it.
You on the other hand see him taking this job as going against what he stated earlier regarding players getting pay/ grants. Which I totally disagree with. If it was regarding a grant or pay for a manager then I'd concede to your point of view.

But i can't see either side changing their view on this so it's prob been done to death.

Quote from: supersarsfields on February 04, 2009, 06:28:29 PM
Again this is were we'll have to disagree. To me Mickey might be getting hired as a GAA columinist, but that's the point. He's getting hired to do a job, not to manage. To me I see no problem with pay for it.
You on the other hand see him taking this job as going against what he stated earlier regarding players getting pay/ grants. Which I totally disagree with. If it was regarding a grant or pay for a manager then I'd concede to your point of view.

But i can't see either side changing their view on this so it's prob been done to death.

Fair enough.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:18:34 PM
It certainly does matter if that wish is public or private. That is the point.

Rubbish. If someone has a particular opinion, and someone sticks a mike or a recorder under his/her nose then it becomes public... what do you want them to do, lie?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:18:34 PM

Quote
b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Where the f*ck did I say that? I just answered your question where would another sports association cease without amateurs.

You said that it didn't matter whether the amateurs were an intrinsic component part of an organisation (GAA) or indirectly contributing (LoI). I would call that an equation.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:10:38 PM
He promised to lead a Tyrone team in the event of a players strike. He could have kept quiet like almost every other manager but he didn't.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/tyrone-to-defy-strike-1215577.html)

Let me get this straight: you are against pay-for-play, but you would support players striking for the grants, and MH had no right to make a statement on it, even though he doesn't criticise the grants in that article you refer to. A tape-recorder was stuck under MH's nose, what did you want him to do? Almost every other manager probably hadn't a tape-recorder shoved under their nose. And how do you know he hadn't been reassured by the Tyrone panel that they wouldn't be striking?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 07:59:23 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:18:34 PM
It certainly does matter if that wish is public or private. That is the point.

Rubbish. If someone has a particular opinion, and someone sticks a mike or a recorder under his/her nose then it becomes public... what do you want them to do, lie?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 05:18:34 PM

Quote
b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Where the f*ck did I say that? I just answered your question where would another sports association cease without amateurs.

You said that it didn't matter whether the amateurs were an intrinsic component part of an organisation (GAA) or indirectly contributing (LoI). I would call that an equation.

Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:03:23 PM
Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

I'm taking your positions to their logical conclusions.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 08:07:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:03:23 PM
Others have debated with me but at least they understand the point.

You are just jumping on crazy tangents.

I'm taking your positions to their logical conclusions.

The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:09:25 PM
The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

Show me exactly where I've misrepresented you, as opposed to hiding behind a "condescension" charge.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 08:12:08 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:09:25 PM
The ultimate patronising comment. Your logical conclusions are clearly not mine.

Show me exactly where I've misrepresented you, as opposed to hiding behind a "condescension" charge.

QuoteNor do I, unlike yourself, begrudge those GAA sporting figures of yesteryear that have turned a bob or two with an autobiography or such, even if they yet extol the virtues of player amateurism.

I dont begrudge anyone a few bob. That is the point.

Quotemuppet, you believe that

a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

Where did I say 'you can never make money....without being charged with hypocrisy'? You put those words in my mouth.

Quote
b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Show me where I said that without any of your beloved assumptions, extrapolation or bringing things to its (your) logical conclusions.

QuoteSo, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

::) ::) ::) ::)

All misrepresenting me. All putting words in my mouth(so to speak). All ignoring post after post explaining my opinion.

If the players had the same potential for earnings through media work that Harte has then, yes, then it would be fine. But the fact is that they dont..his profile is much higher, he has to potential to earn a lot more. The thing is is that the players are as much responsible for his profile as he is himself. Now maybe some of the money he earns goes into a kitty and the player benefit from that. If not then, yes, it is fair to call him a hypocrite.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:27:39 PM
I dont begrudge anyone a few bob. That is the point.

So, in your eyes MH (and KMcS) is a hypocrite, yet you don't begrudge him, right?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:27:39 PM

Quote
a) if you've done something as an amateur, and were glad to do so and want to see the amateur status remain (and it's irrelevant whether that wish be private or public), then you can never make money on the back of that participation, at least not without being charged with hypocrisy, regardless of what that money-making activity might be

Where did I say 'you can never make money....without being charged with hypocrisy'? You put those words in my mouth.

So what are you saying then, that MH and his like can make money as a result of his GAA background at some point in the future, just not now?

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:27:39 PM

Quote
b) amateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

Show me where I said that without any of your beloved assumptions, extrapolation or bringing things to its (your) logical conclusions.

You said  that it doesn't matter whether an organisation collapses tomorrow or in thirty years because of the services of amateurs being withdrawn: "Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent." Therefore, in your opinion, since it doesn't matter when the organisation actually kicks it, amateurs are as important to one organisation as they are to the other.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:27:39 PM

QuoteSo, every ball and hurley manufacturer, every groundskeeper, every official, every food purveyor for the after-match refreshments, they are all hypocrites in your book because they're making money off the back of amateur efforts, however tenuous the link may be.

::) ::) ::) ::)

All misrepresenting me. All putting words in my mouth(so to speak). All ignoring post after post explaining my opinion.

OK, I accept that that particular sentiment was not what you meant, though I wasn't referring to that far back in the thread, only the current cycle of this thread.

QuoteSo what are you saying then, that MH and his like can make money as a result of his GAA background at some point in the future, just not now?

No. MH and anyone else are free to do as they wish. All I am saying ad nauseum is that if they are paid because of their profile as Gaa people then they shouldn't campaign against others in the Gaa receiving money.

QuoteYou said  that it doesn't matter whether an organisation collapses tomorrow or in thirty years because of the services of amateurs being withdrawn: "Both soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent." Therefore, in your opinion, since it doesn't matter when the organisation actually kicks it, amateurs are as important to one organisation as they are to the other.

This does not accurately reflect my position. You asked:

Quotecan you name one single other 'professional' sports organisation anywhere in the world that would cease to be if the amateurs within its ranks ceased to be?

I replied:

QuoteAlmost every 'professional' sports organise in the world would collapse if there was no amateurs working at grassroots level. Imagine the state of soccer in this country if the game consisted only of the League of Ireland. Imagine rugby without the schools and clubs.

You ran:

QuoteThe League of Ireland would not collapse in the morning, not that it's particularly alive anyway. But the LoI does not need amateurs on a day-to-day basis to function. And neither would the RFU.  Yes, they may atrophy and die, eventually, but that is not the same thing. I'm talking about an immediate collapse, not a withering.

I reeled:

QuoteBoth soccer and rugby would die without its amateurs whether it took a couple of years or not is irrelevent.

You then concluded that what I meant was:

Quoteamateurs are as important to the FAI and IRFU as they are to the GAA

It wasn't. Clearly amateurs are far more important to the Gaa. The FAI and IRFU dont get 83,000 attendances to see amateurs. They dont even get to build a stadium that size.

We are clearly creatures who think differently. Please dont assume on my behalf. If you have a question I will try to answer.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
No. MH and anyone else are free to do as they wish. All I am saying ad nauseum is that if they are paid because of their profile as Gaa people then they shouldn't campaign against others in the Gaa receiving money.

OK, but I would dispute the "campaigning" charge.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
Clearly amateurs are far more important to the Gaa. The FAI and IRFU dont get 83,000 attendances to see amateurs. They dont even get to build a stadium that size.

OK, though despite that you acknowledge how crucially important amateurs are to the GAA you still maintain that:

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
The Gaa is not an amateur association.

Just to be clear.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 04, 2009, 09:12:43 PM

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
No. MH and anyone else are free to do as they wish. All I am saying ad nauseum is that if they are paid because of their profile as Gaa people then they shouldn't campaign against others in the Gaa receiving money.

OK, but I would dispute the "campaigning" charge.

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 08:56:58 PM
Clearly amateurs are far more important to the Gaa. The FAI and IRFU dont get 83,000 attendances to see amateurs. They dont even get to build a stadium that size.

OK, though despite that you acknowledge how crucially important amateurs are to the GAA you still maintain that:

Quote from: muppet on February 04, 2009, 02:48:24 PM
The Gaa is not an amateur association.

Just to be clear.

Unfortunately yes.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 04, 2009, 08:38:09 PM
If the players had the same potential for earnings through media work that Harte has then, yes, then it would be fine. But the fact is that they dont..his profile is much higher, he has to potential to earn a lot more. The thing is is that the players are as much responsible for his profile as he is himself. Now maybe some of the money he earns goes into a kitty and the player benefit from that. If not then, yes, it is fair to call him a hypocrite.

How did you escape the flaming?  :D

It will be interesting to read how Mickey addresses dealing with other teams, tactics and predictions. Maybe he'll stay clear of that. Intriguing to see his approach.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 04, 2009, 08:38:09 PM
If the players had the same potential for earnings through media work that Harte has then, yes, then it would be fine. But the fact is that they dont..his profile is much higher, he has to potential to earn a lot more. The thing is is that the players are as much responsible for his profile as he is himself. Now maybe some of the money he earns goes into a kitty and the player benefit from that. If not then, yes, it is fair to call him a hypocrite.

Well we obviously have different views on this.  Mickey got offered this role not just because of his position as Tyrone manager. I would suggest the fact that he speaks well and has strong views on aspects of the GAA also played a part. Also the players and Mickey are at different points in their careers. There's nothing to stop the players taking up a media role if they were offered it. And Mickey has never spoken out against this. So to me there is no hypocrisy.   

Quote from: ONeill on February 04, 2009, 10:51:25 PM
It will be interesting to read how Mickey addresses dealing with other teams, tactics and predictions. Maybe he'll stay clear of that. Intriguing to see his approach.

This is exactly my point - given the fact he's gonna 'comment on all things on and off the field' how is he gonna talk about any other team that's still in the Championship at the time of going to press without bringing extra pressure on Tyrone or causing conflict.

  This is not a slight on his character (before anyone goes off on one), he's a very shrude man whom I have a lot of repect for. I'm speaking from the point of view that it will not make great journalism and I don't really see it as a big coup d'état at all!! I don't think it's the same as Benny Tierney at all as his column is humorous and he does not hold the same position as MH.

  Maybe I'm just jealous that Banty hasn't made it with the 'highbrow' GAA media...  ::)

It might be rather dull indeed.

I actually got a sneak preview of his opening paragraph from Irish News journo Paddy Archer:

JOE KERNAN SMELLS OF CATS

People see him as my modern nemesis. That couldn't be further from the truth. Joe and I are good friends and we share an interest in cats, although I'll never go as far as letting them sleep in my bed at night. Ha Ha. We pray together once a month. Armagh are a good team. But so are Monaghan and Down. And Cavan and all the rest for that matter. They all have good manager and good players. Everyone of them. Even Leitrim. Michaela says London are good too, with good players and manager. Mark likes New York although he was always a lover of apples. Especially big ones. Ha ha. What I don't like is red sauce. I prefer HP........

Quote from: ONeill on February 05, 2009, 10:58:51 AM
It might be rather dull indeed.

I actually got a sneak preview of his opening paragraph from Irish News journo Paddy Archer:

JOE KERNAN SMELLS OF CATS

People see him as my modern nemesis. That couldn't be further from the truth. Joe and I are good friends and we share an interest in cats, although I'll never go as far as letting them sleep in my bed at night. Ha Ha. We pray together once a month. Armagh are a good team. But so are Monaghan and Down. And Cavan and all the rest for that matter. They all have good manager and good players. Everyone of them. Even Leitrim. Michaela says London are good too, with good players and manager. Mark likes New York although he was always a lover of apples. Especially big ones. Ha ha. What I don't like is red sauce. I prefer HP........

;D You excel yourself once again O'Neill!!

I'm thinking column names.. If Paddy Heaney or whoever has 'Off The Fence' of a Thursda then surely Mickey Harte's Frida column should be called 'On The Fence'..

Consistency key for rules Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/02/09

Welcome to my Friday column with The Irish News. I'm delighted to be joining a publication that is so highly recognised in the journalistic world generally, and the GAA domain specifically. Over the next number of weeks and months I will share some thoughts and ideas around the pertinent issues of the day. I know you won't necessarily agree with my take on things. However, if I can stimulate some healthy/heated debate then perhaps my shared experiences with you, the reader, will be of some value...

IT seems everyone has a view on how the new playing rules will work out this year. If nothing else, they have provided the media, managers, players, officials and supporters with a major talking point for the remainder of the National League.

There are many people who have already condemned the rules experiment as a failure, but I think it is too early to make a valued judgement on their success or otherwise.

To date, Tyrone have played four games with four different referees with the new rules/sanctions in place, and I would be happy with the way each official interpreted them.

People might well cite particular incidents and make comparisons, but we have to accept mistakes will be made along the way.

Nobody is going to get every call right, whether they are managers, players or referees. Like everything else in life, there will be human error.

The key to good refereeing is consistent application of whatever rules prevail. If that happens, then I feel most people will be favourably disposed to the changes. Consistency is critical and, to date, I have not seen anything to make me unduly concerned about this experiment.

I don't necessarily concur with the notion that the changes will impact negatively when the
high-stakes nature of Championship football kicks in.

Everything goes back to that word: consistency. If consistency prevails, then it really shouldn't matter what the competition is. People will put greater emphasis on Championship football – but Championship football is no different to League or McKenna Cup football. It's football or it's not. Rules remain or they don't.

I was very happy with the way Sligo referee Marty Duffy handled the spotlight during last
Saturday's high-profile League match between Tyrone and Dublin. I know there was some
debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee's interpretation was correct.

I also thought it was inaccurate when Setanta Sports' coverage likened it to a foul from another game that bore no resemblance to the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed.

People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

If I were to make one constructive criticism of Martin Duffy's performance on Saturday night (and this observation applies to all referees), then I would advise a more discreet display of authority. An obvious, overt, dictatorial manner is not necessary to show you are in control.

I WAS very impressed with the fireworks and lighting display that took place after last

Saturday's game at Croke Park to celebrate the GAA's 125th anniversary, and hearty congratulations are due to Jarlath Burns and all those who were involved.

It was quite spectacular and everyone should be proud of this shared investment. I had earlier suggested that the GAA might consider a review of the proposed outlay of e500,000 on the fireworks and lighting display. However, when it was fully explained that the entire sum involved would be raised through the entrance fee on the night then it seemed a much more reasonable proposition.

It certainly was a memorable occasion, and it was obvious that 'the Man above' approved as we were blessed with a beautiful night in the capital.

Credit, too, must go to both sets of players who, despite the limited preparation time (this was still January after all) served up a game of memorable quality.

WHILE much praise has been directed towards the GAA for the wonderful success of last Saturday night's spectacular presentation, perhaps the most significant event of the evening took place away from the razzmatazz.

I believe Ard-Stiurthoir Pauric Duffy, President Nicky Brennan, Stadium manager Peter McKenna and all their staff should be equally proud of the caring manner in which they facilitated the visit of young Cian Corrigan to the event.

Young Cian (an ardent Tyrone fan) has just recently undergone serious spinal surgery and through an excellent piece of teamwork between the Gardai, the staff of the Royal Victoria Hospital and the GAA, Cian's dream came true when he was afforded the opportunity to meet the Tyrone players in the changing room. Cian's parents John and Rachel were most appreciative of this act of kindness by all concerned.

No plans to stop soon
I'M entering my seventh year as Tyrone senior football and my 19th consecutive year as manager of a Tyrone team at some level and I still very much appreciate the privilege.

It's difficult to determine when I will finish up with my native county. But, with all managers, there is a time-frame on every tenure.

I agreed with the county board that I will be involved this year and next year. At the end of the 2010 season is when my current arrangement lapses.

I always keep an open mind on my future, and if the experience continues to prove as challenging, exciting and rewarding as it currently is, then who knows when the adventure might end?

With all the media interest that surrounds Gaelic games, it is a very public arena and, naturally, some people will find that pressure difficult to bear.

Maybe it's the way of the world that results are the only measure of success.

It seems to be if you win trophies then you're a success; if you lose matches, you're a failure. I have never subscribed to that philosophy.

I think that individual development of players and team improvement are more accurate barometers of success than merely the raising of trophies or winning of titles.

Give Armagh game the Croker treatment
I'D be disappointed if our Ulster Championship game with Armagh doesn't go to Croke Park this summer because the game is certainly big enough. I believe the Croke experience is unique and players treasure every opportunity they get to play there.

Too often in the past, few teams from Ulster were afforded this luxury. Thankfully, the venue is no longer the daunting prospect it once was for players from this province.

Indeed, the level of performance achieved by teams at school, club, college and county level is reflective of the self-confidence that exists within the players from this part of our country.

It's encouraging to hear people

actually discussing the possibility of an Ulster Championship first round game going ahead at Croke Park, and I believe it would be

another celebration of the strength of Gaelic games in the province if the game was hosted there.

Despite the quality of provision now available at our county and provincial grounds, every Croke Park opportunity ought to be seized and savoured.

The Ulster Council is recognised throughout not only the GAA world, but within all sporting

organisations on this island, as being innovative and forward-thinking.

Given that GAA headquarters is available on this date (and it's my understanding that it is), I have no doubt that the possibility of many from the province heading for Jones's Road on May 31 will be given much considered thought in the weeks ahead.

Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2009, 11:09:28 AM
Consistency key for rules Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/02/09

Welcome to my Friday column with The Irish News. I'm delighted to be joining a publication that is so highly recognised in the journalistic world generally, and the GAA domain specifically. Over the next number of weeks and months I will share some thoughts and ideas around the pertinent issues of the day. I know you won't necessarily agree with my take on things. However, if I can stimulate some healthy/heated debate then perhaps my shared experiences with you, the reader, will be of some value...

IT seems everyone has a view on how the new playing rules will work out this year. If nothing else, they have provided the media, managers, players, officials and supporters with a major talking point for the remainder of the National League.

There are many people who have already condemned the rules experiment as a failure, but I think it is too early to make a valued judgement on their success or otherwise.

To date, Tyrone have played four games with four different referees with the new rules/sanctions in place, and I would be happy with the way each official interpreted them.

People might well cite particular incidents and make comparisons, but we have to accept mistakes will be made along the way.

Nobody is going to get every call right, whether they are managers, players or referees. Like everything else in life, there will be human error.

The key to good refereeing is consistent application of whatever rules prevail. If that happens, then I feel most people will be favourably disposed to the changes. Consistency is critical and, to date, I have not seen anything to make me unduly concerned about this experiment.

I don't necessarily concur with the notion that the changes will impact negatively when the
high-stakes nature of Championship football kicks in.

Everything goes back to that word: consistency. If consistency prevails, then it really shouldn't matter what the competition is. People will put greater emphasis on Championship football – but Championship football is no different to League or McKenna Cup football. It's football or it's not. Rules remain or they don't.

I was very happy with the way Sligo referee Marty Duffy handled the spotlight during last
Saturday's high-profile League match between Tyrone and Dublin. I know there was some
debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee's interpretation was correct.

I also thought it was inaccurate when Setanta Sports' coverage likened it to a foul from another game that bore no resemblance to the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed.

People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

If I were to make one constructive criticism of Martin Duffy's performance on Saturday night (and this observation applies to all referees), then I would advise a more discreet display of authority. An obvious, overt, dictatorial manner is not necessary to show you are in control.

I WAS very impressed with the fireworks and lighting display that took place after last

Saturday's game at Croke Park to celebrate the GAA's 125th anniversary, and hearty congratulations are due to Jarlath Burns and all those who were involved.

It was quite spectacular and everyone should be proud of this shared investment. I had earlier suggested that the GAA might consider a review of the proposed outlay of e500,000 on the fireworks and lighting display. However, when it was fully explained that the entire sum involved would be raised through the entrance fee on the night then it seemed a much more reasonable proposition.

It certainly was a memorable occasion, and it was obvious that 'the Man above' approved as we were blessed with a beautiful night in the capital.

And thats where I stopped reading

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 11:35:23 AM

Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2009, 11:09:28 AM
Consistency key for rules Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/02/09

Welcome to my Friday column with The Irish News. I'm delighted to be joining a publication that is so highly recognised in the journalistic world generally, and the GAA domain specifically. Over the next number of weeks and months I will share some thoughts and ideas around the pertinent issues of the day. I know you won't necessarily agree with my take on things. However, if I can stimulate some healthy/heated debate then perhaps my shared experiences with you, the reader, will be of some value...

IT seems everyone has a view on how the new playing rules will work out this year. If nothing else, they have provided the media, managers, players, officials and supporters with a major talking point for the remainder of the National League.

There are many people who have already condemned the rules experiment as a failure, but I think it is too early to make a valued judgement on their success or otherwise.

To date, Tyrone have played four games with four different referees with the new rules/sanctions in place, and I would be happy with the way each official interpreted them.

People might well cite particular incidents and make comparisons, but we have to accept mistakes will be made along the way.

Nobody is going to get every call right, whether they are managers, players or referees. Like everything else in life, there will be human error.

The key to good refereeing is consistent application of whatever rules prevail. If that happens, then I feel most people will be favourably disposed to the changes. Consistency is critical and, to date, I have not seen anything to make me unduly concerned about this experiment.

I don't necessarily concur with the notion that the changes will impact negatively when the
high-stakes nature of Championship football kicks in.

Everything goes back to that word: consistency. If consistency prevails, then it really shouldn't matter what the competition is. People will put greater emphasis on Championship football – but Championship football is no different to League or McKenna Cup football. It's football or it's not. Rules remain or they don't.

I was very happy with the way Sligo referee Marty Duffy handled the spotlight during last
Saturday's high-profile League match between Tyrone and Dublin. I know there was some
debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee's interpretation was correct.

I also thought it was inaccurate when Setanta Sports' coverage likened it to a foul from another game that bore no resemblance to the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed.

People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

If I were to make one constructive criticism of Martin Duffy's performance on Saturday night (and this observation applies to all referees), then I would advise a more discreet display of authority. An obvious, overt, dictatorial manner is not necessary to show you are in control.

I WAS very impressed with the fireworks and lighting display that took place after last

Saturday's game at Croke Park to celebrate the GAA's 125th anniversary, and hearty congratulations are due to Jarlath Burns and all those who were involved.

It was quite spectacular and everyone should be proud of this shared investment. I had earlier suggested that the GAA might consider a review of the proposed outlay of e500,000 on the fireworks and lighting display. However, when it was fully explained that the entire sum involved would be raised through the entrance fee on the night then it seemed a much more reasonable proposition.

It certainly was a memorable occasion, and it was obvious that 'the Man above' approved as we were blessed with a beautiful night in the capital.

And thats where I stopped reading

Well...read the rest and it puts a lot into perspective...

Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2009, 11:09:28 AM
.... the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed. People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

Does he mean he didn't kick him in the arse  ;)

Quote from: longrunsthefox on February 06, 2009, 11:37:37 AM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 11:35:23 AM

Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2009, 11:09:28 AM
Consistency key for rules Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/02/09

Welcome to my Friday column with The Irish News. I’m delighted to be joining a publication that is so highly recognised in the journalistic world generally, and the GAA domain specifically. Over the next number of weeks and months I will share some thoughts and ideas around the pertinent issues of the day. I know you won’t necessarily agree with my take on things. However, if I can stimulate some healthy/heated debate then perhaps my shared experiences with you, the reader, will be of some value...

IT seems everyone has a view on how the new playing rules will work out this year. If nothing else, they have provided the media, managers, players, officials and supporters with a major talking point for the remainder of the National League.

There are many people who have already condemned the rules experiment as a failure, but I think it is too early to make a valued judgement on their success or otherwise.

To date, Tyrone have played four games with four different referees with the new rules/sanctions in place, and I would be happy with the way each official interpreted them.

People might well cite particular incidents and make comparisons, but we have to accept mistakes will be made along the way.

Nobody is going to get every call right, whether they are managers, players or referees. Like everything else in life, there will be human error.

The key to good refereeing is consistent application of whatever rules prevail. If that happens, then I feel most people will be favourably disposed to the changes. Consistency is critical and, to date, I have not seen anything to make me unduly concerned about this experiment.

I don’t necessarily concur with the notion that the changes will impact negatively when the
high-stakes nature of Championship football kicks in.

Everything goes back to that word: consistency. If consistency prevails, then it really shouldn’t matter what the competition is. People will put greater emphasis on Championship football – but Championship football is no different to League or McKenna Cup football. It’s football or it’s not. Rules remain or they don’t.

I was very happy with the way Sligo referee Marty Duffy handled the spotlight during last
Saturday’s high-profile League match between Tyrone and Dublin. I know there was some
debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee’s interpretation was correct.

I also thought it was inaccurate when Setanta Sports’ coverage likened it to a foul from another game that bore no resemblance to the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed.

People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

If I were to make one constructive criticism of Martin Duffy’s performance on Saturday night (and this observation applies to all referees), then I would advise a more discreet display of authority. An obvious, overt, dictatorial manner is not necessary to show you are in control.

I WAS very impressed with the fireworks and lighting display that took place after last

Saturday’s game at Croke Park to celebrate the GAA’s 125th anniversary, and hearty congratulations are due to Jarlath Burns and all those who were involved.

It was quite spectacular and everyone should be proud of this shared investment. I had earlier suggested that the GAA might consider a review of the proposed outlay of e500,000 on the fireworks and lighting display. However, when it was fully explained that the entire sum involved would be raised through the entrance fee on the night then it seemed a much more reasonable proposition.

It certainly was a memorable occasion, and it was obvious that ‘the Man above’ approved as we were blessed with a beautiful night in the capital.

And thats where I stopped reading

Well...read the rest and it puts a lot into perspective...

How has any of the rest of the column (I went and read it under your advice) have anything to do with the "oh so holy" line I have highlighted?

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 11:42:42 AM

Quote from: longrunsthefox on February 06, 2009, 11:37:37 AM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 11:35:23 AM

Quote from: ONeill on February 06, 2009, 11:09:28 AM
Consistency key for rules Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/02/09

Welcome to my Friday column with The Irish News. I'm delighted to be joining a publication that is so highly recognised in the journalistic world generally, and the GAA domain specifically. Over the next number of weeks and months I will share some thoughts and ideas around the pertinent issues of the day. I know you won't necessarily agree with my take on things. However, if I can stimulate some healthy/heated debate then perhaps my shared experiences with you, the reader, will be of some value...

IT seems everyone has a view on how the new playing rules will work out this year. If nothing else, they have provided the media, managers, players, officials and supporters with a major talking point for the remainder of the National League.

There are many people who have already condemned the rules experiment as a failure, but I think it is too early to make a valued judgement on their success or otherwise.

To date, Tyrone have played four games with four different referees with the new rules/sanctions in place, and I would be happy with the way each official interpreted them.

People might well cite particular incidents and make comparisons, but we have to accept mistakes will be made along the way.

Nobody is going to get every call right, whether they are managers, players or referees. Like everything else in life, there will be human error.

The key to good refereeing is consistent application of whatever rules prevail. If that happens, then I feel most people will be favourably disposed to the changes. Consistency is critical and, to date, I have not seen anything to make me unduly concerned about this experiment.

I don't necessarily concur with the notion that the changes will impact negatively when the
high-stakes nature of Championship football kicks in.

Everything goes back to that word: consistency. If consistency prevails, then it really shouldn't matter what the competition is. People will put greater emphasis on Championship football – but Championship football is no different to League or McKenna Cup football. It's football or it's not. Rules remain or they don't.

I was very happy with the way Sligo referee Marty Duffy handled the spotlight during last
Saturday's high-profile League match between Tyrone and Dublin. I know there was some
debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee's interpretation was correct.

I also thought it was inaccurate when Setanta Sports' coverage likened it to a foul from another game that bore no resemblance to the indiscretion that Mickey McGee committed.

People ought to be very careful about making dubious comparisons. It was a judgement call that could have gone against him, but it was by no means as blatant a foul as the one highlighted in the Setanta footage.

If I were to make one constructive criticism of Martin Duffy's performance on Saturday night (and this observation applies to all referees), then I would advise a more discreet display of authority. An obvious, overt, dictatorial manner is not necessary to show you are in control.

I WAS very impressed with the fireworks and lighting display that took place after last

Saturday's game at Croke Park to celebrate the GAA's 125th anniversary, and hearty congratulations are due to Jarlath Burns and all those who were involved.

It was quite spectacular and everyone should be proud of this shared investment. I had earlier suggested that the GAA might consider a review of the proposed outlay of e500,000 on the fireworks and lighting display. However, when it was fully explained that the entire sum involved would be raised through the entrance fee on the night then it seemed a much more reasonable proposition.

It certainly was a memorable occasion, and it was obvious that 'the Man above' approved as we were blessed with a beautiful night in the capital.

And thats where I stopped reading

Well...read the rest and it puts a lot into perspective...

How has any of the rest of the column (I went and read it under your advice) have anything to do with the "oh so holy" line I have highlighted?

I'm just saying it puts everything into perspective... that's all

Am I missing something SidelineKick?

Have you a problem with him mentioning the man above holding off the rain, sleet and Snow as it was a horrible weekend of weather?

Are you serious SLK? That one line put you of reading the article?? Your a hard critic then.

I'd be more worried about the fact he wants the Armagh game in Dublin. I'd rather see it played at either Omagh or Clones before CP. But hey each to their own.

It really doesn't  ???

However, not a bad column all-in-all but it'll take a week or two for his own style to come through.  Talks a bit of sense at least.

It's his constant need to make us all feel that we owe "God" something and without "God" nobody would be able to do anything.  It happened to be a slightly better night than people expected, big f**king deal.

Are you an avowed atheist SLK?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:12:54 PM
Are you an avowed atheist SLK?

I may well be but I certainly wouldnt make a habit of writing publicly about it in a daily newspaper if I was in the position MH is in.  Everybody has their own beliefs maybe he should keep his to himself. (I know I am giving my beliefs on here but this is a discussion board and I'm not in the public eye).

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 12:10:41 PM
It's his constant need to make us all feel that we owe "God" something and without "God" nobody would be able to do anything.  It happened to be a slightly better night than people expected, big f**king deal.

God is getting very pissed off with you Sidekick  :-\

Quote from: longrunsthefox on February 06, 2009, 12:16:28 PM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 12:10:41 PM
It's his constant need to make us all feel that we owe "God" something and without "God" nobody would be able to do anything.  It happened to be a slightly better night than people expected, big f**king deal.

God is getting very pissed off with you Sidekick  :-\

May he strike me down with lightning  :D That would be a turn up for the books!

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 12:15:49 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:12:54 PM
Are you an avowed atheist SLK?

I may well be but I certainly wouldnt make a habit of writing publicly about it in a daily newspaper if I was in the position MH is in.  Everybody has their own beliefs maybe he should keep his to himself. (I know I am giving my beliefs on here but this is a discussion board and I'm not in the public eye).

I can see where you're coming from, but MH's devout (and public) piety is such a readily identifiable and integral characteristic of the man at this stage that I wouldn't let it bother me one way or the other.

Sounds like you've suffered as a child SLK from a strict religious upbringing & so now any hint of talk of the man upstairs & you're off on a witch hunt.

I know there was some debate surrounding a few incidents during the game, and it was put to me that our defender Mickey McGee perhaps should have been yellow-carded, instead of being black-carded, for one particular tackle in the first half. Objectively, it was a decision that could have gone either way, but in this instance I think the referee's interpretation was correct.

I like the way Harte refers to the McGee black card incident, deflecting attention from the clearly more critical black-card (should have been a yellow) Sean Cavanagh was given, which had a direct impact on the result.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:19:28 PM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 12:15:49 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:12:54 PM
Are you an avowed atheist SLK?

I may well be but I certainly wouldnt make a habit of writing publicly about it in a daily newspaper if I was in the position MH is in.  Everybody has their own beliefs maybe he should keep his to himself. (I know I am giving my beliefs on here but this is a discussion board and I'm not in the public eye).

I can see where you're coming from, but MH's devout (and public) piety is such a readily identifiable and integral characteristic of the man at this stage that I wouldn't let it bother me one way or the other.

FFS now I just have to agree with you  :D

I don't think its really the place to be spouting religious stuff and perhaps I did over react by stopping reading the column, I actually found what he said interesting with regards to everything else in the column.

Quote from: Fuzzman on February 06, 2009, 12:20:15 PM
Sounds like you've suffered as a child SLK from a strict religious upbringing & so now any hint of talk of the man upstairs & you're off on a witch hunt.

CALM DOWN

:D Strict religious upbringing!

Quote from: Will Hunting on February 06, 2009, 12:26:52 PM
I like the way Harte refers to the McGee black card incident...

I did too.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:30:19 PM

Quote from: Will Hunting on February 06, 2009, 12:26:52 PM
I like the way Harte refers to the McGee black card incident...

I did too.

What tackle was it compared to?

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 06, 2009, 12:34:50 PM
What tackle was it compared to?

I don't actually know, didn't catch all of the Setanta analysis.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 12:30:19 PM

Quote from: Will Hunting on February 06, 2009, 12:26:52 PM
I like the way Harte refers to the McGee black card incident...

I did too.

Good... then we are in agreement.

Quote from: Will Hunting on February 06, 2009, 01:16:35 PM
Good... then we are in agreement.

Tyrone and Derry in agreement on something... down with this sort of thing!

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 06, 2009, 01:34:53 PM

Quote from: Will Hunting on February 06, 2009, 01:16:35 PM
Good... then we are in agreement.

Tyrone and Derry in agreement on something... down with this sort of thing!

Well, until the end of March anyway!

I must say that i was really looking forward to reading Mickey's column, and was a tad disappointed as i found it rather boring!! I am sure he will improve in time!!

Quote from: amigo on February 06, 2009, 02:24:16 PM
I must say that i was really looking forward to reading Mickey's column, and was a tad disappointed as i found it rather boring!! I am sure he will improve in time!!

Its not going to be ground breaking stuff, and anyhow i thought after calling for his head in 2008 that you wouldn't be reading the opinions of M.Harte!! S.S!!

thought it was a bit boring myself but i think the bearded one will improve!!!!!

I actually disagree with MH on his constructive criticism of Marty Duffys overly authoritarian style of refereeing. No one dared question him, and those that did soon realised there was no room for debate. Too often players think they can influence a referee - and it was evident from the first moment he banished ricey to 10 feet away from his carding of Mickey McGee that he was taking no shit.

QuoteIt's his constant need to make us all feel that we owe "God" something and without "God" nobody would be able to do anything.  It happened to be a slightly better night than people expected, big f**king deal.

He's as bad as George Bush. Never trust a Jesus freak.

How Ireland has changed!  I wouldn't be one for dunderin' the bible meself but jeasis I never thought I'd see the day when somebody throws in a few 'thank Gods" into an article and all of a sudden they're the divil for bein too holy! The country's fecked!

Quote from: Mickeys beard on February 06, 2009, 10:15:09 PM
How Ireland has changed!  I wouldn't be one for dunderin' the bible meself but jeasis I never thought I'd see the day when somebody throws in a few 'thank Gods" into an article and all of a sudden they're the divil for bein too holy! The country's fecked!

Aye but you would say that, being his beard and all.  :D :D

It wasn't the most exciting article to be honest - the paper has many better columnists. I also thought that throwing 2 other half-stories in at the bottom was a bit messy. Should have had a bigger picture to fill the rest of the page and just stuck to the main story. One decent topic each week would be sufficient.

In all fairness, a currently serving inter-county manager isn't going to do a 'Brian Dooher ate my hamster' or 'Tyrone fans are f**king animals' (hmmm?) story.  I expect more of the same.  Safe jornalism, and I hope he keeps it up.  A retired Mickey might provide a more rivoting read.

Quote from: AFS on February 07, 2009, 08:09:50 PM
It was, as anticipated, boring and bland as fcuk. I don't see the point in having Harte at all. I'm sure he has lots of interesting opinions to air, but he has to be too restrained because of the position he's in. I can't see him shifting off all those fences much in the future either, to be honest. They'd have been better off letting a figure like Brian McEniff or Pete McGrath or someone, with relatively recent involvement but not too many direct links, write a column. At least then we could read an opinion or two  :-\

ha! have you read the gaelic life?

McGrath is woejus

I don't know if anyone has raised this already, but I just wonder if The Irish News' decision to run with a Mickey Harte column each Friday might have had anything to do with the competition offered by The Gaelic Life on that same day.

For me, The Gaelic Life is now a must read every week.  It is easily the best publication for GAA coverage in Ulster by a country mile.  Might The Irish News have been under some pressure to give their own GAA coverage on a Friday a real shot in the arm with this new Mickey Harte column?

Either way, it is great that GAA followers in this part of the world are now spoiled for choice!

Quote from: Mickeys beard on February 06, 2009, 10:15:09 PM
How Ireland has changed!  I wouldn't be one for dunderin' the bible meself but jeasis I never thought I'd see the day when somebody throws in a few 'thank Gods" into an article and all of a sudden they're the divil for bein too holy! The country's fecked!

Nah, Mike Sheehy and Kerry are fecked! ;D

Quote from: AFS on February 07, 2009, 10:00:05 PM
Woejus?

Don't really read it that often :-\

Rather than actually him, I was more kinda using Pete as an example of the type of person they could get, not really directly involved but still with decent inside knowledge. I'm sure there are plenty of people in that type of position.

What is Woejus?

Is it one of those DUP religious titles?

The Right Honerable Woejus Ian Paisley???

Quote from: Redhandfan on February 08, 2009, 03:31:53 PM
I don't know if anyone has raised this already, but I just wonder if The Irish News' decision to run with a Mickey Harte column each Friday might have had anything to do with the competition offered by The Gaelic Life on that same day.

For me, The Gaelic Life is now a must read every week.  It is easily the best publication for GAA coverage in Ulster by a country mile.  Might The Irish News have been under some pressure to give their own GAA coverage on a Friday a real shot in the arm with this new Mickey Harte column?

Either way, it is great that GAA followers in this part of the world are now spoiled for choice!

Dunno, I always end up getting both the Irish News and the Gaelic Life... Afraid of missing something...

Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

Can anyone post the article? Remember I was giving off about his religious spoutings last week? Is this what we're in for every week?

It's not about who's right – it's about what's right

THE amount of column
inches that have been
written about the
difficulties currently being
experienced within the
GAA family in Cork, in many ways
reflects contemporary society's
appetite for bad news.
I deliberately use the terminology
"GAA family" because that is
ultimately how all of us who are
involved in the organisation see
ourselves – part of one big
sporting and cultural family.
The corollary to that is that if
there is a problem with any family
member then we are all adversely
affected.
Perhaps the emphasis to date,
both internally and in the public
domain, has been very much of
the "blame game" nature.
Who's right seems more
important than what's right.
Like most prolonged and
protracted disputes, the energies
of those directly immersed in the
dilemma is problem-orientated
rather than solution-driven. While
the win-lose mentality prevails
there can only be one outcome –
we are all losers.
The blunt facts of the matter are
that the current impasse didn't
happen in an instant, it is a result
of a process of decline over a
period of time.
Is it not a little naive to expect a
perfect, quick-fix solution?
In any major conflict there are no
instant solutions, just pathways
towards a resolution. In the north
of Ireland, we are probably more
acutely aware of this phenomenon
in the context of the ongoing
peace process.
Indeed, the fact that the sports
minister Gregory Campbell of the
DUP, was able and willing to
welcome the Tyrone minors and
seniors, along with officials of the
Tyrone County Board and Ulster
Council to Stormont last Friday
evening, in recognition of 2008's
double All-Ireland, should act as a
significant indicator that things
which once seemed impossible
can, with meaningful engagement,
be achieved.
It is the stated position of the
chief protagonists in the Cork
dispute that they have the future
well-being of the GAA in the
county at heart.
The obvious question all involved
must ask themselves is: Is my/our
current position achieving that
aim?
If the answer is 'no' (and I don't
think it would take Einstein to
work that one out) then some new
thinking is required.
Ultimately that will create a
degree of discomfort for everyone
directly involved.
We are creatures of habit and, as
such, we don't always embrace
change, but without change there
can be no growth.
If all rival parties are truly genuine
about their concern for the
greater good of the GAA in the
county (and we ought to take
their positions at face value) then
perhaps one piece of unexpected
giving will be more constructive
than 10 statements of
self-righteousness.
An old American Indian saying
reminds us that "to truly
understand another human being
we must first walk a mile in his
moccasins".
All concerned must recognise
there are never any perfect
solutions to conflict situations.
'Solutions' that permit festering
are non-solutions. It's about
what's right, not who's right.
Sometimes there is greater
strength in flexibility. Invariably in
these circumstances, the focus is
solely on what each party stands
to lose.
The pressure to not lose face
supersedes all other (logical)
outcomes.
Is it not possible to be the
instigators of a new phenomenon
and actually 'gain face' by
communicating to connect rather
than defeat?
Ultimately, this necessitates
identifying what all those involved
in the current situation have in
common rather than what divides
them.
If this stance is adopted, then
personalities, and past and recent
historical positions and
perspectives, become secondary
to the key objective, which is a
fully participating Cork GAA
family.
Can the Cork County Board
continue with the current
arrangement? Of course it can.
Is it a constructive solution?
Absolutely not.
Can the 2008 panel of players
adhere to their current position?
Of course they can.
Will it serve them well
individually and collectively?
Definitely not.
The conclusion, therefore, is not
about who you are against in this
debate, but rather how you can
best serve, even in the interim,
the future well-being of the GAA in
the Rebel county.
IOF all people, given my own
past history of engagement in
disputes of a GAA nature, am
not suggesting that such lateral
thinking would be easily
embraced by any of those
involved at the coalface, but
sooner or later a lasting solution
will only come about in this way.
The Jesuit writer John Powell
gives us an insight as to how we
might deal with issues of conflict
when he reminds us that there
is 'my truth', 'your truth', and
'the truth'.
Yes it is difficult to leave words or,
actions, which we perceive as
hurtful behind us, but this little
story, related by Fr Vincent
Travers in his book In Touch With
God illustrates the value of doing
just that.
An old Buddhist monk was taking
a novice from one monastery to
another along the banks of a river.
The river was swollen due to
recent rainstorms and, as they
rounded the corner, they came
across an old woman who was
crying uncontrollably.
Her daughter, who lived on the
other side, was dying and she
though, because of the torrent,
she would never see her again.
The old monk, after consoling her
as best he could, resumed the
journey. There was only so much
he could do. After all, it was
forbidden for a Buddhist monk to
touch a female.
The young monk stood his ground
and decided he was strong
enough to carry the woman
across the river.
He duly picked her up carried her
across to the other side and set
her down.
When he got back, the senior
monk screamed at the young man
about the sacrilege he had
committed.
This tirade of abuse went on all
afternoon as they continued their
journey. The young monk's only
respite was when he went into the
woods to collect firewood.
When he returned the lecture
began again.
Eventually he could take no more
and said: "Stop! There is one thing
I don't understand about this. I
put the woman down on the far
side of the river this morning.
Why are you still continuing to
carry her?"
Perhaps there is a lot of old
women (baggage) still being
carried in Cork.

P.S. If anyone knows how to edit this so that it will display full page instead of columns - let me know :-)

Here you go lads, read it and weep  ;D

It's not about who's right – it's about what's right
Mickey Harte


The amount of column inches that have been written about the difficulties currently being experienced within the GAA family in Cork, in many ways reflects contemporary society's appetite for bad news. I deliberately use the terminology "GAA family" because that is ultimately how all of us who are involved in the organisation see ourselves – part of one big sporting and cultural family. The corollary to that is that if there is a problem with any family member then we are all adversely affected. Perhaps the emphasis to date, both internally and in the public domain, has been very much of the "blame game" nature.

Who's right seems more important than what's right. Like most prolonged and protracted disputes, the energies of those directly immersed in the dilemma is problem-orientated rather than solution-driven. While the win-lose mentality prevails there can only be one outcome – we are all losers. The blunt facts of the matter are that the current impasse didn't happen in an instant, it is a result of a process of decline over a period of time. Is it not a little naive to expect a perfect, quick-fix solution? In any major conflict there are no instant solutions, just pathways towards a resolution. In the north of Ireland, we are probably more acutely aware of this phenomenon in the context of the ongoing peace process.

Indeed, the fact that the sports minister Gregory Campbell of the DUP, was able and willing to welcome the Tyrone minors and seniors, along with officials of the Tyrone County Board and Ulster Council to Stormont last Friday evening, in recognition of 2008's double All-Ireland, should act as a significant indicator that things which once seemed impossible can, with meaningful engagement, be achieved. It is the stated position of the chief protagonists in the Cork dispute that they have the future well-being of the GAA in the county at heart. The obvious question all involved must ask themselves is: Is my/our current position achieving that aim? If the answer is 'no' (and I don't think it would take Einstein to work that one out) then some new thinking is required. Ultimately that will create a degree of discomfort for everyone directly involved. We are creatures of habit and, as such, we don't always embrace change, but without change there can be no growth.

If all rival parties are truly genuine about their concern for the greater good of the GAA in the county (and we ought to take their positions at face value) then perhaps one piece of unexpected giving will be more constructive than 10 statements of self-righteousness. An old American Indian saying reminds us that "to truly understand another human being we must first walk a mile in his moccasins". All concerned must recognise there are never any perfect solutions to conflict situations. 'Solutions' that permit festering are non-solutions. It's about what's right, not who's right. Sometimes there is greater strength in flexibility. Invariably in these circumstances, the focus is solely on what each party stands to lose. The pressure to not lose face supersedes all other (logical) outcomes.

Is it not possible to be the instigators of a new phenomenon and actually 'gain face' by communicating to connect rather than defeat? Ultimately, this necessitates identifying what all those involved in the current situation have in common rather than what divides them. If this stance is adopted, then personalities, and past and recent historical positions and perspectives, become secondary to the key objective, which is a fully participating Cork GAA family. Can the Cork County Board continue with the current arrangement? Of course it can. Is it a constructive solution? Absolutely not. Can the 2008 panel of players adhere to their current position? Of course they can. Will it serve them well individually and collectively? Definitely not.

The conclusion, therefore, is not about who you are against in this debate, but rather how you can best serve, even in the interim, the future well-being of the GAA in the Rebel county. I of all people, given my own past history of engagement in disputes of a GAA nature, am not suggesting that such lateral thinking would be easily embraced by any of those involved at the coalface, but sooner or later a lasting solution will only come about in this way. The Jesuit writer John Powell gives us an insight as to how we might deal with issues of conflict when he reminds us that there is 'my truth', 'your truth', and 'the truth'. Yes it is difficult to leave words or, actions, which we perceive as hurtful behind us, but this little story, related by Fr Vincent Travers in his book In Touch With God illustrates the value of doing just that. An old Buddhist monk was taking a novice from one monastery to another along the banks of a river. The river was swollen due to recent rainstorms and, as they rounded the corner, they came across an old woman who was crying uncontrollably. Her daughter, who lived on the other side, was dying and she though, because of the torrent, she would never see her again. The old monk, after consoling her as best he could, resumed the journey. There was only so much he could do. After all, it was forbidden for a Buddhist monk to touch a female. The young monk stood his ground and decided he was strong enough to carry the woman across the river. He duly picked her up carried her across to the other side and set her down. When he got back, the senior monk screamed at the young man about the sacrilege he had committed.This tirade of abuse went on all afternoon as they continued their journey. The young monk's only respite was when he went into the woods to collect firewood. When he returned the lecture began again. Eventually he could take no more and said: "Stop! There is one thing I don't understand about this. I put the woman down on the far side of the river this morning. Why are you still continuing to carry her?"

Perhaps there is a lot of old women (baggage) still being carried in Cork.

Remember, it's only February

A word of caution is probably required ahead our game against Kerry at the weekend. The game between Dublin and Tyrone stood out insofar as the conditions in Croke Park were as near to perfect as you could get at this time of year. It was summer football in the middle of winter. But it would be a mistake to think that the remainder of the fixtures in the League involving Tyrone are going to be as easy on the eye as that game. We would do well in Tyrone to keep our feet firmly on the ground.

It's rare that two big games in succession live up to their billing. Needless to say, we will do our best to produce plenty of scores. There will be much speculation about this game, but there is no history to suggest that the result between ourselves and Kerry at this time of year has any bearing on what will happen later on in the summer. We may not meet again at all. People get carried away about Tyrone and Kerry. Lots of teams will be competing for major honours this year. We are just two of the teams that are contenders for the main award. At the same time, tradition and Kerry's recent form tell us that they are among the best.

Whatever team they put out will be a serious measure of the standard we have reached at this time.

I have and did  :D

Again, makes some very valid points, looks like I'll just have to get used to the religious side of his preachings column. Or I could get someone to read it and censor it  :D

Not being biased, but it's actually good stuff and refreshingly less cliched that 96% of journos.

Quote from: ONeill on February 13, 2009, 01:22:18 PM
Not being biased, but it's actually good stuff and refreshingly less cliched that 96% of journos.

True. He actually does make sense.

"At the same time, tradition and Kerry's recent form tell us that they are among the best. "

Kerry among the best? That's some real thoughtful insight!  :D

Best manager in the game. Serious gobshite though!

I really like his take on the Cork mess although I wouldn't be to keen on how he put it across.

It's a pity that he didn't practice what he preaches when he split the Ballygawley club for ten years and remained intransigent to any form of thinking during that period.

Quote from: seamusthebard on February 13, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
It's a pity that he didn't practice what he preaches when he split the Ballygawley club for ten years and remained intransigent to any form of thinking during that period.

This is something i don't know much about - care to expand?  I was wondering what he was on about in the article when he referred to his history of disputes!

Quote from: seamusthebard on February 13, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
It's a pity that he didn't practice what he preaches when he split the Ballygawley club for ten years and remained intransigent to any form of thinking during that period.

Maybe he did, in the end.

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

You must have a good priest if your sermons are of that caliber.

I rarely darken the doors of the chapel myself, so I will take MH's spiritual guidance on a Friday.

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

You must have a good priest if your sermons are of that caliber.

I rarely darken the doors of the chapel myself, so I will take MH's spiritual guidance on a Friday.

Oh god, so now not only is MH the best manager that ever walked but he can be a substitute for a priest? If you miss mass on a Sunday fear not, MH will make it all better with "the man above" on a Friday.

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 13, 2009, 05:41:21 PM

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

You must have a good priest if your sermons are of that caliber.

I rarely darken the doors of the chapel myself, so I will take MH's spiritual guidance on a Friday.

Oh god, so now not only is MH the best manager that ever walked but he can be a substitute for a priest? If you miss mass on a Sunday fear not, MH will make it all better with "the man above" on a Friday.

Yep that's my thinking. Not trying to say he's an actual deity but definitely a useful conduit to the Supreme Being.

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 10:19:45 PM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 13, 2009, 05:41:21 PM

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

You must have a good priest if your sermons are of that caliber.

I rarely darken the doors of the chapel myself, so I will take MH's spiritual guidance on a Friday.

Oh god, so now not only is MH the best manager that ever walked but he can be a substitute for a priest? If you miss mass on a Sunday fear not, MH will make it all better with "the man above" on a Friday.

Yep that's my thinking. Not trying to say he's an actual deity but definitely a useful conduit to the Supreme Being.

I like the man but... what you said is utter nonsense.

He may be a good IC manager but he doesn't have a direct line to the Almighty.

It's this sort of stupidness from Tyronies that pisses me off.

I think there's no doubt that Harte is closer to God than most, especially Pillar Caffrey and John Morrison.

Whats he going to be doing on the iriah news. i think that he's a great manager definetly one of the best gaa managers ever and he'd be an asset to rte

God, thy name is Mickey Harte.

His Church is GAA Clubhouses up and down the county. He'll building a strong team of apostles to take with him to hollowed turf on the 3rd Sunday in September.

Bullcrap aside, it's an interesting article. Different to most and interesting to boot.

Quote from: ONeill on February 13, 2009, 11:27:10 PM
I think there's no doubt that Harte is closer to God than most, especially Pillar Caffrey and John Morrison.

His honesty about his beliefs is one of the things I admire about the man.  The car-crash he was involved in would have killed most men though...

Aye, but then again, sure wasn't he flyin through the beads in one hand and textin with the other.

Quote from: seamusthebard on February 13, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
It's a pity that he didn't practice what he preaches when he split the Ballygawley club for ten years and remained intransigent to any form of thinking during that period.

He knows what he is talking about so.

That's 2 weeks i've read it. Probably the last time. I'm not that bothered about his constant religious references - although personally i think it's a bit corny - i just find it very boring. I generally enjoy listening to him when he is being interviewed, but these columns just seem to talk a lot but say very little.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 14, 2009, 12:07:46 AM

Quote from: ONeill on February 13, 2009, 11:27:10 PM
I think there's no doubt that Harte is closer to God than most, especially Pillar Caffrey and John Morrison.

His honesty about his beliefs is one of the things I admire about the man.  The car-crash he was involved in would have killed most men though...

Eh? So Mickey walked away without a scratch, but it would have killed most men? What do you think he is, Robocop?

Robomanager.

No mention of "Groping Gate" today. Its actually pretty boring stuff.

Anyone wish to post it?

Quote from: Minder on February 20, 2009, 10:03:54 AM
No mention of "Groping Gate" today. Its actually pretty boring stuff.

I agree i nearly fell asleep halfway through his column. I was hoping for alot more rivetting stuff from the great one!!!

THE idea of a World Series (essentially a World Cup) in Gaelic Games is often frowned upon as mere pie in the sky. With more imaginative reflection and the correct will, this is the ONLY way we can begin the process of giving an international dimension to our national games.

You may be vaguely aware that there are clubs participating in the promotion of our games in some distant and unusual destinations around the globe. However, you may be equally surprised to know that there are no fewer than 307 organised units of the Association outside of Ireland.

In Asia, there are 20 functioning clubs, with more than twice that number – 45 to be

precise – operating in Australia. In neighbouring New Zealand, you will find no fewer than 17 clubs.

There are nine clubs in Toronto, with a further four in Western Canada, bringing the total in that country to 13.

As you might expect, north America has the greatest proliferation of clubs outside Ireland, which now numbers 129, not including the 47 clubs in New York. Boston North East (31), Chicago Centra (30) and San Francisco (21) are the leaders in terms of numbers of clubs, with the Mid-West and Philadelphia boasting affiliated units in double digits.

The 307 is completed by the 36 clubs in Europe, with France (10), The Netherlands and Spain (five each), accounting for more than half of that number.

Generally, those who refuse to embrace the possibility of a World Series, base their opposition on the fact that no-one could compete with the standard of our Games at home. They further attempt to justify their disapproval by citing that there isn't anything like the level of emigration that there once was, therefore this proposal is doomed to failure.

Both arguments are somewhat flawed as the exercise is dependant upon presenting Irish champions of a suitable standard to create as level a playing field as possible for those from the various destinations of the world.

The emigration (or lack of it) argument also misses the point. It's not about having Irish people representing other countries, rather about the travelling patriots acting as a catalyst amongst the indigenous population of their new abodes, in order to encourage them to discover the playing merits and entertainment value our games have to offer.

The obvious starting point is to have the All-Ireland junior club champions represent our country initially and have each other country/continent present their club champion side. This is not as unusual as it may seem when one considers that in the early days of the GAA, there were no county teams, only club sides who represented their county.

Ultimately this is about beginning the process of internationalising Gaelic Games without compromising them. If, as a result of the initial experiment, a recalibration of standards was deemed necessary then so be it.

In time, it may well be necessary to have different divisions and perhaps the intermediate or senior club champions of Ireland could be accommodated at the World Series.

In due course, it is not unthinkable that the first steps towards county involvement with perhaps the Division Four league champions in football and the Lory Meagher Cup winners in hurling representing Ireland.

I am sure you can make the final connection – All-Ireland senior champions, Martin Donnelly Railway Cup champions, and ultimately truly National Gaelic Games representative teams competing on a world stage.

Perhaps if we think 'generation' rather than years, wouldn't it be conceivable that we could mark 150 years of the GAA with a World Cup extravaganza at Croke Park? I know from speaking to several of the dedicated GAA volunteers in the USA and various other parts of the world I have alluded, that they would see such a prospect as a huge boost to their attempts to spread the GAA gospel. Telling our people in foreign lands about the great work they are doing is right and proper. However, while it's great to celebrate past achievements, we must also be about the business of creating something innovative so that future generations can reflect with equal pride.

I think there are different levels of thinkers within the GAA as there are in religion, business and other matters.  Harte is a deeper thinker than most and even if he dosent use buzz words or phrases or sensationalist attention grabbing language to me his deep thinking and analysis of the greater picture would put a few on here to shame.  Even if all we want to read is about the players and their bad habits and Mickey comes on and outlines a philosphy which a rising undercurrent of opinion believe might serve us well, we should turn the page if we dont understand - theres a few on here would rather throw cabbages - tis like a modern day Judean stoning somedays on here.   Perhaps too many here read the star, the sun and would forget more about Amy Whinehouse than they would remember about GAA.   Ask yourselves the wee question: Are you the junk food addict eating Lobster in a Michelin star restaurant but craving a sup of chips with it?  What level of thinking do you buy into the GAA, Is it pay for play, opening Croke Park or producing better balanced young irelanders?     I believe Mickey has the promise of a Mark Conway or Peter Quinn as one of the great deepthinkers within the GAA, who see the car before the headlights as opposed to those who just see the headlights.             

So he is some sort of Zen master? If Mickey Marte did his column in Swahili there would be some on here telling us how "profound" it was........

This column was never going to be anything other than dross. Harte is in too precarious a position to risk anything that might give any opponent the slightest motiation.
the only plus for him is as a lobby position every week.

p.s. what the feck has mark conway done to be considered a "deep thinker"?

He stood up to the growing tide of shallowness emerging within the GAA, and he feckin won.   

I must live in a parrelel universe. what are you on about?

Quote from: rrhf on February 20, 2009, 11:05:20 AM
He stood up to the growing tide of shallowness emerging within the GAA, and he feckin won.   

Like feck he did. All the doom merchants were professing their love of the game last September without a mention of grants.

I make it his third article and it has all been compete dirge.

RRHF - what are you on about???

The man writes 3 crap articles, this does not make him a deep thinker.

Its a decent article and, as someone who played abroad, I found it interesting. But its a subject matter for a quiet week. On a week when one of his players has been 'grabbing' the headlines and Mickey doesn't mention it, well that's not good enough. If he has signed up as a columinst he has to at least refer to this. If I was the sports editor at the Irish News I wouldn't be impressed. Shit or get off the pot Mickey, you can't have it both ways.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on February 13, 2009, 11:22:46 PM

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 10:19:45 PM

Quote from: SidelineKick on February 13, 2009, 05:41:21 PM

Quote from: tyssam5 on February 13, 2009, 05:35:20 PM

Quote from: screenexile on February 13, 2009, 12:57:16 PM
Dear god lads did anyone read that pile of drivel in this morning's paper? I think the man's away with the fairies. John Morrison only with superior tactical knowledge.

Ancient Indian quotes and a Buddhist parable? I don't think our Priest would be out of place using that article word for word in his Sermon on Sunday!

You must have a good priest if your sermons are of that caliber.

I rarely darken the doors of the chapel myself, so I will take MH's spiritual guidance on a Friday.

Oh god, so now not only is MH the best manager that ever walked but he can be a substitute for a priest? If you miss mass on a Sunday fear not, MH will make it all better with "the man above" on a Friday.

Yep that's my thinking. Not trying to say he's an actual deity but definitely a useful conduit to the Supreme Being.

I like the man but... what you said is utter nonsense.

He may be a good IC manager but he doesn't have a direct line to the Almighty.

It's this sort of stupidness from Tyronies that pisses me off.

You took my comment at face value and I'm the one being called stupid?

Next time I'll insert one of the wee faces for you, would the sticky out tongue one have clarified it for you?

His first two articles were just OK. Today's was  boring stuff. His clumn is not helping his deep thinking image!

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 02, 2009, 11:32:47 PM
A lot of excitement over nothing. As a current manager he'll have absolutely nothing of any note to say on anything outside of Tyrone in case he makes someone cry. Current players, managers etc are bloody useless at this thing in any sport.

No shocks then. Harte bottled the Ricey affair as did the Irish News by allowing him the omission.

Maybe you're just realising that to almost everyone else bar those on this board, it was no big deal. I've managed to set foot in 4 Ulster counties in the last 2 days and have spoken to GAA men. Not one mentioned Ryan McMenamin. They've all taked about the game/tactics. Mickey gave it the coverage it deserved.

Quote from: seamusthebard on February 20, 2009, 09:42:04 PM
His first two articles were just OK. Today's was  boring stuff. His clumn is not helping his deep thinking image!

Care to expand on your philosophy of spreading the games? I'm dying to hear.

Quote from: ONeill on February 20, 2009, 10:45:27 PM
Maybe you're just realising that to almost everyone else bar those on this board, it was no big deal. I've managed to set foot in 4 Ulster counties in the last 2 days and have spoken to GAA men. Not one mentioned Ryan McMenamin. They've all taked about the game/tactics. Mickey gave it the coverage it deserved.

The board members must have been busy sending letters into Off The Fence in the Irish News yesterday where there was really only one topic. Hazard a guess what it was. Mickey Blessed is Thy Name.

A hack predicted to me on Monday that the Irish News rant page on Thurs will be filled by the same 4-5 crackpots. He was proved correct.

The Irish News Off The Fence sold its soul a long time ago. I used to write in ridiculous letters which were printed until my email was banned. So did SS2 and TF.

Quote from: ONeill on February 21, 2009, 12:41:57 AM
A hack predicted to me on Monday that the Irish News rant page on Thurs will be filled by the same 4-5 crackpots. He was proved correct.

The Irish News Off The Fence sold its soul a long time ago. I used to write in ridiculous letters which were printed until my email was banned. So did SS2 and TF.

What, Tony sent ridiculous letters into a newspaper rant page?! Who'd a thunk it ;)

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 20, 2009, 07:31:59 PM
On a week when one of his players has been 'grabbing' the headlines and Mickey doesn't mention it, well that's not good enough. If he has signed up as a columinst he has to at least refer to this. If I was the sports editor at the Irish News I wouldn't be impressed. Shit or get off the pot Mickey, you can't have it both ways.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2009, 10:39:37 PM
Harte bottled the Ricey affair as did the Irish News by allowing him the omission.

Aw c'mon guys! Now i think the column is as dull as the next man, but you can't seriously have expected Mickey to comment on a case of one of his own players currently being considered by the CCCC?

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 21, 2009, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 20, 2009, 07:31:59 PM
On a week when one of his players has been 'grabbing' the headlines and Mickey doesn't mention it, well that's not good enough. If he has signed up as a columinst he has to at least refer to this. If I was the sports editor at the Irish News I wouldn't be impressed. Shit or get off the pot Mickey, you can't have it both ways.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2009, 10:39:37 PM
Harte bottled the Ricey affair as did the Irish News by allowing him the omission.

Aw c'mon guys! Now i think the column is as dull as the next man, but you can't seriously have expected Mickey to comment on a case of one of his own players currently being considered by the CCCC?

Fair enough. Don't think the fact that its under consideration by the CCCC is what stopped him though. But that can be the excuse in this case.

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 21, 2009, 01:00:14 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on February 21, 2009, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on February 20, 2009, 07:31:59 PM
On a week when one of his players has been 'grabbing' the headlines and Mickey doesn't mention it, well that's not good enough. If he has signed up as a columinst he has to at least refer to this. If I was the sports editor at the Irish News I wouldn't be impressed. Shit or get off the pot Mickey, you can't have it both ways.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 20, 2009, 10:39:37 PM
Harte bottled the Ricey affair as did the Irish News by allowing him the omission.

Aw c'mon guys! Now i think the column is as dull as the next man, but you can't seriously have expected Mickey to comment on a case of one of his own players currently being considered by the CCCC?

Fair enough. Don't think the fact that its under consideration by the CCCC is what stopped him though. But that can be the excuse in this case.

Well yeah, he probably wouldn't have mentioned it anyway. But he's never going to highlight bad behaviour of his own players. And as has been said many times before on this thread, as a serving manager, he really isn't going to say anything interesting about anything.

Quote from: ONeill on February 20, 2009, 10:45:27 PM
Maybe you're just realising that to almost everyone else bar those on this board, it was no big deal. I've managed to set foot in 4 Ulster counties in the last 2 days and have spoken to GAA men. Not one mentioned Ryan McMenamin. They've all taked about the game/tactics. Mickey gave it the coverage it deserved.

Ironically, Every single GAA man i spoke to this week about the national league games, including tyrone men, got to McMenamin at some stage. usually with the opening line "what about that kn**ker McMenamin...."

One of us is moving in the wrong circles

Quote from: Uladh on February 21, 2009, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: ONeill on February 20, 2009, 10:45:27 PM
Maybe you're just realising that to almost everyone else bar those on this board, it was no big deal. I've managed to set foot in 4 Ulster counties in the last 2 days and have spoken to GAA men. Not one mentioned Ryan McMenamin. They've all taked about the game/tactics. Mickey gave it the coverage it deserved.

Ironically, Every single GAA man i spoke to this week about the national league games, including tyrone men, got to McMenamin at some stage. usually with the opening line "what about that kn**ker McMenamin...."

One of us is moving in the wrong circles

Yea, I didn't go to Armagh.

Me niether. Real Football people know the boundaries

QuoteI think there are different levels of thinkers within the GAA as there are in religion, business and other matters.  Harte is a deeper thinker than most and even if he dosent use buzz words or phrases or sensationalist attention grabbing language to me his deep thinking and analysis of the greater picture would put a few on here to shame.  Even if all we want to read is about the players and their bad habits and Mickey comes on and outlines a philosphy which a rising undercurrent of opinion believe might serve us well, we should turn the page if we dont understand - theres a few on here would rather throw cabbages - tis like a modern day Judean stoning somedays on here.   Perhaps too many here read the star, the sun and would forget more about Amy Whinehouse than they would remember about GAA.   Ask yourselves the wee question: Are you the junk food addict eating Lobster in a Michelin star restaurant but craving a sup of chips with it?  What level of thinking do you buy into the GAA, Is it pay for play, opening Croke Park or producing better balanced young irelanders?     I believe Mickey has the promise of a Mark Conway or Peter Quinn as one of the great deepthinkers within the GAA, who see the car before the headlights as opposed to those who just see the headlights.

jesus, what a load of unadulterated bollocks. It would be great if the mods enemies of free speech  on here weren't  so biased..... we could  have a proper discussion on Saint Mickey.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on February 22, 2009, 03:44:57 AM

QuoteI think there are different levels of thinkers within the GAA as there are in religion, business and other matters.  Harte is a deeper thinker than most and even if he dosent use buzz words or phrases or sensationalist attention grabbing language to me his deep thinking and analysis of the greater picture would put a few on here to shame.  Even if all we want to read is about the players and their bad habits and Mickey comes on and outlines a philosphy which a rising undercurrent of opinion believe might serve us well, we should turn the page if we dont understand - theres a few on here would rather throw cabbages - tis like a modern day Judean stoning somedays on here.   Perhaps too many here read the star, the sun and would forget more about Amy Whinehouse than they would remember about GAA.   Ask yourselves the wee question: Are you the junk food addict eating Lobster in a Michelin star restaurant but craving a sup of chips with it?  What level of thinking do you buy into the GAA, Is it pay for play, opening Croke Park or producing better balanced young irelanders?     I believe Mickey has the promise of a Mark Conway or Peter Quinn as one of the great deepthinkers within the GAA, who see the car before the headlights as opposed to those who just see the headlights.

jesus, what a load of unadulterated bollocks. It would be great if the mods enemies of free speech  on here weren't  so biased..... we could  have a proper discussion on Saint Mickey.

Perfect description of the previous post. 

Another pretty poor effort today. The main piece was a rehash of his qualifier idea that had been widely reported on 6 months ago. Then there was a bit about some Tyrone supporter that had died, which, while sad, is of little interest or consequence to most of the rest of us here in Ulster. Finally, the cherry on top was an unsurprising and petty dig at the International Rules series - again, nothing new here.

Donny Doherty was almost a better read.

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 07:25:05 PM
. Then there was a bit about some Tyrone supporter that had died, which, while sad, is of little interest or consequence to most of the rest of us here in Ulster.

Fuckin hell. You need to get a bit of perspective--whatever interest it is to you I'm sure whoever the person's family was were very interested.

Quote from: hardstation on February 21, 2009, 12:56:31 AM
SS2 still does but rarely uses the name SS2.

Three of my email addresses got banned. Men like James McDefoe, Terry McCann and Michael Fegan no longer appear. Strangely, the only one that isn't is saffronsam2@something.com.

Quote from: stibhan on February 27, 2009, 09:15:10 PM

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 07:25:05 PM
. Then there was a bit about some Tyrone supporter that had died, which, while sad, is of little interest or consequence to most of the rest of us here in Ulster.

Fuckin hell. You need to get a bit of perspective--whatever interest it is to you I'm sure whoever the person's family was were very interested.

I'm sure they were, but football supporters from every county die every week. Its a sad, inevitable fact of life. Harte hasn't been tasked with writing an obituary column.

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 09:29:34 PM

Quote from: stibhan on February 27, 2009, 09:15:10 PM

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 07:25:05 PM
. Then there was a bit about some Tyrone supporter that had died, which, while sad, is of little interest or consequence to most of the rest of us here in Ulster.

Fuckin hell. You need to get a bit of perspective--whatever interest it is to you I'm sure whoever the person's family was were very interested.

I'm sure they were, but football supporters from every county die every week. Its a sad, inevitable fact of life. Harte hasn't been tasked with writing an obituary column.

Thats a wee bit harsh AFS though, it was hardly a full blown eulogy, merely recognition of the passing of a very well known Tyrone supporter.  There is a very easy way to protest if you like though, don't read it!

Fair enough, its just if he wanted to he could write a wee piece nearly every week on a well known individual in the GAA community that had recently died. I just expected, and wanted, something more original and accessible from his column, I've been very disappointed to date.

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 09:29:34 PM

Quote from: stibhan on February 27, 2009, 09:15:10 PM

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 07:25:05 PM
. Then there was a bit about some Tyrone supporter that had died, which, while sad, is of little interest or consequence to most of the rest of us here in Ulster.

Fuckin hell. You need to get a bit of perspective--whatever interest it is to you I'm sure whoever the person's family was were very interested.

I'm sure they were, but football supporters from every county die every week. Its a sad, inevitable fact of life. Harte hasn't been tasked with writing an obituary column.

What about paddy heaney? He also writes about great Gaels that have passed away who might not have been known to the wider gaa community, this is no different

Right fair enough lads, as long as its not a regular feature I can live with the odd wee peice like that.

I'm more bothered with the rest of the column, which was it was decidedly unoriginal.

I thought it was a solid, reasoned page. People are so dumbed-down now with sensational ideas yet empty theory that it's almost expected now. Mickey is providing food for thought and debate. For him to lambaste the back-door having been a prime gainee (surely not a word) is some move. His article on McCann was about how the GAA fan has moved on in terms of fanatical support and Brendan is only mentioned in the last paragraph.

Quote from: ONeill on February 27, 2009, 10:54:11 PM
I thought it was a solid, reasoned page. People are so dumbed-down now with sensational ideas yet empty theory that it's almost expected now. Mickey is providing food for thought and debate. For him to lambaste the back-door having been a prime gainee (surely not a word) is some move.

Its a very good idea, but its old news. It was well discussed 6 months ago when he first came out with it. How is this providing any new food for thought?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/have-a-harte-1454284.html

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=8970.0

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 07:25:05 PM
Donny Doherty was almost a better read.

I had actually forgotten all about that one! I didn't even notice when it stopped appearing!

I did actually read the column today. It was... alright. The 'side stories' don't add anything to the column and just make it look like he can't fill a page.

I'm also wondering how many more ideas he can have for columns. I reckon that if you were asked to do a weekly column, you'd need to have about 20 good subjects to write about, just in case there was a slow news week. As Mickey is a serving Manager and can't comment as freely as the other columnists, he'd need even more ideas in reserve. I just can't see how he's going to be able to maintain any kind of interest throughout the year.

The Obama-style advert for his column is also starting to grate at this stage.

Quote from: AFS on February 27, 2009, 11:07:08 PM

Quote from: ONeill on February 27, 2009, 10:54:11 PM
I thought it was a solid, reasoned page. People are so dumbed-down now with sensational ideas yet empty theory that it's almost expected now. Mickey is providing food for thought and debate. For him to lambaste the back-door having been a prime gainee (surely not a word) is some move.

Its a very good idea, but its old news. It was well discussed 6 months ago when he first came out with it. How is this providing any new food for thought?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/have-a-harte-1454284.html

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=8970.0

Paid a fortune no doubt to regurgitate a press conference from last year. And the system he proposes would still have exact same flaws as the current system in that some teams still wouldn't get a second chance. Slight tinkering like this would be of little benefit. Unless there's support for a radical overhaul of the championship (which I don't think there is), it might as well be left alone.

Not sure exactly what the Irish News are getting out this arrangement, unless there's an big increase in sales from Tyrone, Saint Mickey isn't exactly riveting reading for the rest of us.

maybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

QuoteIts a very good idea, but its old news. It was well discussed 6 months ago when he first came out with it. How is this providing any new food for thought?

Quotemaybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

Afs made a reasonable point, Harte may have first class ideas but his columns could be a repeat of ideas expressed earlier.  RRhf's response to this point is nothing to be proud of. With defenders like that, a classy person like Harte does not need enemies. 

Quotemaybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

So someone thinks Harte writes a sub-standard column and you abuse him like that ? That's an awful attitude to have.

Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2009, 09:37:22 PM

QuoteIts a very good idea, but its old news. It was well discussed 6 months ago when he first came out with it. How is this providing any new food for thought?

Quotemaybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

Afs made a reasonable point, Harte may have first class ideas but his columns could be a repeat of ideas expressed earlier.  RRhf's response to this point is nothing to be proud of. With defenders like that, a classy person like Harte does not need enemies. 

No hold on RRHF makes a good point. After all Mr Harte is one of the "deep thinkers" in the Association. How dare he be subject to criticism or negative analysis.

Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 09:11:15 PM
maybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

I don;t understand this at all?

Sorry guys, my fault completely. I made the rookie mistake of daring to criticise the infallible one. I deserve all the abuse I receive  :-[

They'll be issuing Fatwas next for any infidels that critisize Mickeys Quaranic musings.

criticise mickeys writing all he want guys as far as I care but leave the some dead Gael talk out of it

Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on February 28, 2009, 10:30:31 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on February 28, 2009, 09:37:22 PM

QuoteIts a very good idea, but its old news. It was well discussed 6 months ago when he first came out with it. How is this providing any new food for thought?

Quotemaybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

Afs made a reasonable point, Harte may have first class ideas but his columns could be a repeat of ideas expressed earlier.  RRhf's response to this point is nothing to be proud of. With defenders like that, a classy person like Harte does not need enemies. 

No hold on RRHF makes a good point. After all Mr Harte is one of the "deep thinkers" in the Association. How dare he be subject to criticism or negative analysis.

Yip - him and Mark Conway - just the two of them really

Quote from: rrhf on February 28, 2009, 09:11:15 PM
maybe if an asshole like afs would have a little respect he would learn something

and you were "calling" on the mods to ban ME for a week  :D

AFS. in to the naughty corner with you, hang your head in shame, don't you know saint mickey is perfect. 

Quote from: rrhf on March 01, 2009, 08:55:01 AM
criticise mickeys writing all he want guys as far as I care but leave the some dead Gael talk out of it

Ah right I thought you were saying it because he questioned the main article. Fair enough.

Ulster leads the way in rejecting Rules future Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
06/03/09
IT was with much delight that I read of the decision by the Ulster Convention to endorse the long overdue motion to Congress, initiated by Kildress Wolfe Tones club, to cease all formal relationships with the Australian Football League.

On the floor of Congress is where all major decisions affecting the GAA are thoroughly discussed and a democratic decision is reached.

For far too long, this hybrid non-entity of a game was foisted upon us as the only way to give Gaelic games an international

outlet.

As I have stated in a previous column, far from advancing the internationalising of our games, this compromise engagement, only serves to diminish the possibility of that very goal.

To be fair, I have to applaud the excellent marketing (propaganda) machine that has driven the 'popularity' of this mediocre game to a significant level.

It is worth remembering that these so-called Tests didn't always attract large attendances. Indeed, it wasn't unusual to have less than 25,000 attending soon after the series was resurrected following a period of inaction.

However, with the obvious attraction for the ever-increasing media circle (three weeks in Australia every second year at a time when the autumn chill was beginning to bite at home), it was easy to understand how the phenomenon would find almost universal favour with sports journalists throughout the land.

To really kickstart the interest, the promotional machine introduced a powerful advertising campaign, not unlike a Sky TV fight-night promotion, where the emphasis was on confrontation, with the key punchline being: 'No

Compromise'.

This, allied to the fact that the numbers attending were much enhanced by the nominal entrance fee for children created by the erroneous notion that this was a 'must see' product.

Soon this clever double-edged promotional campaign was to hit 'rocky' ground (no pun intended) when the violence took precedence over skill.

A serious contradiction had arisen – the prospect of nasty encounters on the field had a certain base lure to it, yet the cheap seats (the children) shouldn't have to witness this ultra-aggressive behaviour.

This conundrum was solved when the aggressive nature of such marketing, having aroused sufficient interest, became much more tempered, even to the point of re-naming it the 'International Rules'.

Interestingly enough, this did not solve the potential for violence within the exchanges – something which caused most grief for those determined to prolong the engagement.

As has been well-documented, it was the violent nature of the play in 2006 which led to the 2007

series being postponed.

A more sanitised version of the game was conjured up for 2008, Ireland win in Australia and all is well again. Not really.

You see, this was never an argument about the violence, or lack of it, in this engagement.

It was about whether or not we were serving the promotion of our games; giving them an

international dimension or not.

Unfortunately, on both counts, the answer is a resounding no.

We have arguably the best field team games available anywhere on this planet in terms of

continuous action, flow, skill levels and spectator

entertainment value, yet some would have us believe that to showcase our products to the wider world, we have to compromise them.

If we, who are entrusted with the promotion of our games, limit our thinking to maintaining the status quo, then we are doing a disservice to those whose vision created what we now have.

Our sporting colleagues in the world of Rugby Union are continuously developing their sport (uncompromised) into non-traditional rugby nations.

Even the current recognition of Italy as a significant force in the Six Nations tournament would have been unthinkable in the Willie John McBride and Mike Gibson era of Irish international rugby.

Those dedicated band of journalists who enjoy the trip Down Under every second year,  and report on all matters

pertaining to the 'tests,' are key players in the continuation of this affair.

It provides the opportunity for many column inches, at a time when things begin to quieten down after all the excitement of the All-Ireland football and hurling finals.

Indeed, the lead up to the series and the reflection (aftermath) of it might even supply those hard- pressed professionals with seven or eight weeks material.

I have often wondered (for about 0.1 of a second) if an AFL type of game was played in Liverpool, Manchester, Cardiff, or Glasgow, would we be taking three weeks out of the GAA calender to engage in such exercises?

The formal contact which currently exists with the AFL only serves to create a warm environment for agents, scouts, pillagers – call them what you will – to plunder our best young talent.

I was always of the opinion that the senior competition was merely a smokescreen by the AFL to create an awareness of the possibilities for our younger developing players to embrace their sport.

They weren't particularly interested in our adult players (unless they were in their early 20s), but needed them to create a platform for the commercial viability of the project.

There was never going to be any reciprocal flow from the professional ranks back to the GAA.

The age-old quip 'at least Dick Turpin wore a mask' appears to ring true.



Remembering two Red Hand greats

I COULDN'T let this week pass without acknowledging two Tyrone sportsmen of immense stature.

Firstly, as is well known throughout the GAA world, last Monday marked the fifth anniversary of the late Cormac McAnallen (pictured left).

Few young sportsmen have made such a positive impact on their contemporaries.

Those of us fortunate to share some of his journey through life have much to treasure.

On a less poignant note, we in the Errigal Ciaran club had the great pleasure of sharing a night of celebration in honour of one of the best players ever to play the game.

Friends and family gathered to recall and appreciate the sheer class that Peter Canavan
possessed.

The numerous video clips highlighted the huge repertoire of skills Peter had within his armoury.

A word of congratulations to Tommy Trainor and his organising committee on a job well done, and to MC for the night, Martin McCarron, who revelled in the role.

OK, I can't defend that one. That's a wee bit of a broken record now. It's well written and coherently analysed, but it's the same old. Also, the Tyrone bias is a tad obvious in the filler articles every week.

So what else can he write about?

Tactics? Bygone matches, managers and players?

I'd like to hear about some of the stories from in the inside during his tenure but I suppose that's all for the memoirs in 2016.

2 things:

In the paper, at the end of the IR column, it says "To be continued..." Whoop-e-doo!

Also...

QuoteA serious contradiction had arisen – the prospect of nasty encounters on the field had a certain base lure to it, yet the cheap seats (the children) shouldn't have to witness this ultra-aggressive behaviour.

But it's okay that the children in the cheap seats at Omagh see a bit of ball juggling?!

A third thing:

The overuse of the snide aside in brackets thing (wally).

The most disappointing thing is that there are loads of topics that he could write about that we'd all love to read.

How do you deal with disruptive players?
How do you tell a player coming to the end of his career that he's no longer needed?
How do you help a young player that's just been added to the panel for the first time?
How do you motivate the team after a shock/big defeat?
How do you keep the players' feet on the ground after a big win?
How do you deal with under preforming players?
How do you tell a player that he's dropped for a big match?
How do you go about assessing whether a new player is worthy of a place on the panel?
etc, etc, etc....

These are all topics only a manager could write about with any authority, and since Harte is the most high profile manager about at the minute it would be fascinating to hear his take on these issues. He doesn't even really have to refer to specific players if he feels uncomfortable about it.

Quote from: AFS on March 06, 2009, 06:07:30 PM
The most disappointing thing is that there are loads of topics that he could write about that we'd all love to read.

How do you deal with disruptive players?
How do you tell a player coming to the end of his career that he's no longer needed?
How do you help a young player that's just been added to the panel for the first time?
How do you motivate the team after a shock/big defeat?
How do you keep the players' feet on the ground after a big win?
How do you deal with under preforming players?
How do you tell a player that he's dropped for a big match?
How do you go about assessing whether a new player is worthy of a place on the panel?
etc, etc, etc....

These are all topics only a manager could write about with any authority, and since Harte is the most high profile manager about at the minute it would be fascinating to hear his take on these issues. He doesn't even really have to refer to specific players if he feels uncomfortable about it.

What would he have left to boast about in his 'end of career' Book?

Quote from: Zapatista on March 06, 2009, 06:45:39 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 06, 2009, 06:07:30 PM
The most disappointing thing is that there are loads of topics that he could write about that we'd all love to read.

How do you deal with disruptive players?
How do you tell a player coming to the end of his career that he's no longer needed?
How do you help a young player that's just been added to the panel for the first time?
How do you motivate the team after a shock/big defeat?
How do you keep the players' feet on the ground after a big win?
How do you deal with under preforming players?
How do you tell a player that he's dropped for a big match?
How do you go about assessing whether a new player is worthy of a place on the panel?
etc, etc, etc....

These are all topics only a manager could write about with any authority, and since Harte is the most high profile manager about at the minute it would be fascinating to hear his take on these issues. He doesn't even really have to refer to specific players if he feels uncomfortable about it.

What would he have left to boast about in his 'end of career' Book?

What is the point of his column then if, as seems likely, he is saving content for an autobiography?

Quote from: Minder on March 06, 2009, 09:17:43 PM
What is the point of his column then if, as seems likely, he is saving content for an autobiography?

The Tyrone brilliance doesn't grow on trees, you know!  ;)

Harte mixes it up this week on a subject he has yet to touch on in his column.............




No Room For Compromise



While reflecting on last week's column, and my intimation that the media had a huge influence on the perceived popularity of the Compromise Rules, I was about to cut some slack towards this group of professionals, when one of their own, writing in a daily journal emanating from the capital, reinforced my original view.

This strongly opinionated scribe – regrettably often blinkered – decided that, at the first hint of a proper debate with regard to the continuation of this non-entity of a sport, mis-representation was in order.

The essence of his argument was that since this initiative originated from our province, it was another case of 'Ulster says NO'.

The argument was so full of assumption, we all might as well assume that two plus two makes five.

The key substance to his conclusion was that, because at an earlier consideration at Central Council, Tyrone were the only county to oppose the continuation of the Rules series, the current decision of the Ulster Convention to back the Kildress proposal was merely a reaction to the so-called second test not being hosted in Casement. How ridiculous is that!

It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that this was an attempt to distort the real facts that many gaels throughout the length and breadth of this island see no value in this exercise.

Additionally, if it could be portrayed merely as an "Ulster" campaign, then that might dissuade other counties from aligning with this particular stance.

Ultimately, what reflects worst of all on this interpretation of the proposal is that it is actually the case of Ulster saying YES to the promotion of Gaelic Games, rather than the convenient (trip retention) negative connotation implied.

It has always been somewhat of a mystery to me that the soundbites emanating from a number of high ranking officials – both paid and ambassadorial – encourage a diminution of the very sport, whose development and promotion they are entrusted with, on behalf of all GAA members.

Can you imagine high-ranking business executives speaking in more glowing terms of a company producing a rival product?

If the CEO and other senior management were more inclined to wax lyrical on their opponents' appeal and virtually redesign their market brand – nurtured 125 years – in return for a false and unsustainable alternative, would they be likely to retain their position in the company?

Worse still, what if your rivals came into your workplace and began to enlist your best young talent to experiment with the manufacture of their product and use your premise to do so?

Also, if the reaction of your organisation spokesperson was to suggest that nothing can be done about this – in fact if we don't continue our partnership with these people, they might become even more demanding – would you see that as an effective stewardship of your company?

Is there anything we can do? Lots. Firstly, as the proposal that is on its way to Congress suggests, cease all official ties with the AFL (obviously to include the end of the so called

Compromise series).

No hard feelings towards the Australians and their efforts to promote their sport, but we have plenty to be getting on with here in the promotion of Gaelic Games.

Secondly, we should develop an information resource bank stating clearly all the relevant

implications for our sportsmen who might be encouraged to move to the professional ranks of the AFL.

This should be a thoroughly researched document with all the pros and cons clearly stated in a balanced way, as opposed to the current portrayal of a Bondai Beach paradise opportunity.

An accurate record of the numbers of young players who have made the transition and a definitive assessment of what life was like for them should be made available.

The acknowledgement of the small percentage rate of those who make a successful transition ought to be precisely defined and easily accessible.

The average salary for rookies – and what that translates into in our money, not disguised and

exaggerated in terms of Aussie dollars – ought to keep in context how success in this particular sport might be measured.

The whole area of medical care and the cost of this provision would create an awareness for

our young sportsmen and their families of just some of the potential pitfalls beneath the apparent glamour of such a move. What happens if long-term injury prevents participation?

What about the potential for career development outside of this professional sporting path? What exactly does the working week of an AFL player involve?

In essence, tell it as it is – a job – no longer a hobby.

Comparative figures for Premiership soccer careers and professional rugby union players might give some context for this "dream" opportunity.

Indeed, the athletes from these more lucrative professional career paths have to plan for life after their playing career ends.

The difference is that they usually earn much more on average, and the longevity of their playing career is much superior, to the estimated four and two-thirds years of an AFL athlete.

This reflection is by no means exhaustive, and an organisation that is serious about looking after its most promising emerging

talent ought to be about the business of warding off these marauders from Down Under by creating and supporting quality information and alternatives.

(The recently developed degree programme in Gaelic Games now available in Carlow IT being a case in point.)

The time has come to be totally proactive in the delivery of a real alternative, rather than the

helplessness, often currently portrayed, that there is nothing we can do.

Without entering the debate as to whether the best Gaelic footballers make up the entirety of the Irish team (a certain mix of horses for courses is always apparent), or the fact that this exercise is afforded a fixed date in the calendar, well in advance of the event (no such luxury for the Railway Cup), or the acceptance that this year's opponents were little more than an Australian B team, it's difficult to find an

objective case for the continuation of this engagement.

Rules, rules and more rules

Consistency in the interpretation of the rules by match officials was always, and still is, a point of much debate.

Only those who have performed the task, particularly at a high level, can fully appreciate the difficulty of making accurate calls in live time.

Those who deliberate on sanctions that ought to apply (if any) as a result of the man in black's report are not burdened by such instantaneous calls. Inconsistency on their part is not acceptable.

Ryan McMenamin recently received an eight-week suspension over an incident between himself and Paul Galvin.

Amidst the hysteria, well fuelled by the entire media spectrum, the acceptance of his wrong-doing, and subsequent apology, attracted scant recognition.

Even though this was a classic case of trial by television (with no small help from the rest of the media), no-one in Tyrone made any attempt to condone the incident.

However, when there were clear precedents, arguably of a much more severe nature (by a Donegal footballer and a Cork hurler), which attracted a four-week ban, one has reason to doubt the fairness of Ryan's ban. Indeed, a representative of the CHC openly admitted that the fact the game was televised made the incident more grave!

Have we now got three different sets of rules – the Official Guide, the experimental rules and the rules for televised games? (Almost forgot the fourth set – those that apply to Ricey!)

QuoteThis strongly opinionated scribe – regrettably often blinkered

Maybe this will be in the auto-biography!

In all seriousness though someone call victim support for poor Mickey.  ::)

Jesus mickey, change the record

I agree, once i seen it was about the aussie rules i blanked it, come on Mickey, you have so many good stories about the GAA

the mans obsessed!

He's a stuck record. Getting very boring.

Quote from: Maguire01 on March 13, 2009, 02:37:13 PM
He's a stuck record. Getting very boring.

Heaney and Off the Fence as well as Benny Tierney are the first articles I would turn to when I buy the paper.

Its getting to the stage now where I mighnt even bother my hole reading Mickey's column...

Heaney is brilliant and Brendan Crossan is good when he dosn't talk about Liverpool ;D ;D ;D

change the record mickey!!!

At least he's admitting that Mc Menamin has his own set of rules. ;)

a great manager, but his crusade is getting tiresome to read

QuoteThis strongly opinionated scribe

...ffs, this from a fella who hasn't shut his trap for 5mins for the last 5 years !

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 14, 2009, 04:47:47 AM

QuoteThis strongly opinionated scribe

...ffs, this from a fella who hasn't shut his trap for 5mins for the last 5 years !

Do you talk about anything else other than Tyrone or Tyrone players/managers? A secret fan?

Listen Mickey give the lads something they want to read.  These guys love to read about themselves.  Anything about anonymous keyboard warriors..

QuoteDo you talk about anything else other than Tyrone or Tyrone players/managers? A secret fan?

yes, its the monobrows...how do ye grow them like that ?

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 12:38:57 AM

QuoteDo you talk about anything else other than Tyrone or Tyrone players/managers? A secret fan?

yes, its the monobrows...how do ye grow them like that ?

Ask your sister

QuoteWhile reflecting on last week's column, and my intimation that the media had a huge influence on the perceived popularity of the Compromise Rules, I was about to cut some slack towards this group of professionals, when one of their own, writing in a daily journal emanating from the capital, reinforced my original view.

This strongly opinionated scribe – regrettably often blinkered – decided that, at the first hint of a proper debate with regard to the continuation of this non-entity of a sport, mis-representation was in order.

Ignoring the inevitable blanket Tyronie defence, is this a classic case of colonic irrigation by thesaurus?

Controversial Aussie Rules agent Ricky Nixon is facing possible charges after he crashed his car into a tram in Melbourne on Wednesday.

An uninjured Nixon left the scene of the crash and took a taxi home with over 200 people looking on.



According to Australian media reports, Nixon returned a blood alcohol reading of 0.108 - more than twice to the legal limit - after police followed him to his house and took him to the local station for questioning.

He was released without charges, but a police spokesperson confirmed that investigations were ongoing. Nixon, who held a GAA recruitment camp in Castlebar last August and plans to return to Ireland this year, faces possible charges of driving under the influence and leaving the scene of an accident.

It has also been suggested that the 45-year-old could lose his licence to manage AFL players as a result of the smash.

QuoteAsk your sister

Your mother would be more of an authority I suspect.

Hard to beat a bit of mature debate!

I'm perfectly willing to engage in intercounty slagging without making it personal...clearly you lads cant handle that though....you've all got a bit of the McMenamin in you I'm afraid.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 10:13:03 AM
I'm perfectly willing to engage in intercounty slagging without making it personal...clearly you lads cant handle that though....you've all got a bit of the McMenamin in you I'm afraid.

It was you took the debate to 'monobrows' and I went down to your level which is quite a distance Deliverance boy.

QuoteIt was you took the debate to 'monobrows' and I went down to your level which is quite a distance Deliverance boy.

Its good to know that the term monobrow pushes your buttons you inbreeding twat.

Like the family protrait MS?

(http://www.monobrow.com/images/monobrow-toormix.jpg)

Far too glamorous looking. This is probably closer to the specimens you would see in Aughnacloy or Donemana


(http://www.fatboygetsthin.com/images/monobrow6ik.jpg)

MS be careful, there aren't too many glamorous looking folk in Kerry

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 10:13:03 AM
I'm perfectly willing to engage in intercounty slagging without making it personal

Clearly not.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 08:13:30 PM
Its good to know that the term monobrow pushes your buttons you inbreeding t**t.

Quote from: Maguire01 on March 15, 2009, 10:21:51 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 10:13:03 AM
I'm perfectly willing to engage in intercounty slagging without making it personal

Clearly not.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 08:13:30 PM
Its good to know that the term monobrow pushes your buttons you inbreeding t**t.

You seem content to quote me and not longrunsthefox.....typical of how you Ulster bies have a blind spot for your own wumming.

QuoteMS be careful, there aren't too many glamorous looking folk in Kerry

Yeah, you're right, we just cant compete with the likes of Joe kernan and Francie Bellew.

How do you recognise a Kerryman on an oil rig?
He's the one throwing crusts of bread to the helicopters...

QuoteI backed ye, f**k ye.

Be prepared for a fatwa to be issued against you and banishment from the province.

Did you hear about the latest Tyrone invention?
It's a solar-powered flashlight.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 15, 2009, 11:00:52 PM
Did you hear about the latest Tyrone invention?
It's a solar-powered flashlight.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/UKayed-Rechargeable-Multi-Function-Powered/dp/B001B94YH4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1237158491&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/UKayed-Rechargeable-Multi-Function-Powered/dp/B001B94YH4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1237158491&sr=8-1)

I also have a solar-power flash light.

Well done MS.

Owned again.

What is this obsession with Kerry people slaging off peoples' physical features Mikey even nicknaming your own hero the Gooch....

Last weeks and this weeks coloumn are the best to date.

Fell over laughing at this mouthful

'Spillane postulates with such authority with regard to coaching that I'm amazed he hasn't put that apparent nous to the test at the top level(or indeed any level) of Gaelic football'


:D :D :D :D :D :D....he has hit the nail on the head...no holding back Mickey....fair play to ya :D :D :D

Please tell me he's not on about the international rules again today?

Quote from: The GAA on March 20, 2009, 10:35:35 AM
Please tell me he's not on about the international rules again today?

not at all, he is giving Spillane a dressing down :D :D :D

Can anyone post the article?

Time we kicked narrow-minded views to touch
Mickey Harte

20/03/2009

WHEN I was a young fellow growing up in the late fifties, sixties and early seventies, there was a senior citizen in our locality who had a rather memorable phrase, which went: "There are none so blind as those who don't want to see". Many times since that period I have come to understand the wisdom of his words. A certain gentleman, well known in the world of punditry, both on television and through the Sunday print media, gives regular credence to this particular truth.

Former Kerry footballer Pat Spillane, who undoubtedly harvested a lot of silverware as a player, invariably berates the modern day players and coaches for their skill deficit. He postulates with such authority with regard to the field of coaching that I'm amazed he hasn't put that apparent nous to the test at the top level (or indeed any level) of Gaelic football, and supply the concrete evidence – which would endorse his beliefs – by managing some highly successful teams. To have the audacity to describe the best efforts of our current inter-county players, playing in what might be described as arctic conditions, in some cases, as "dross" reflects more on his limited mindset than on those who bravely performed in such difficult circumstances. To keep things in perspective and context, this is winter football, played between teams who are often experimenting with permutations and personnel in order to find the best possible combination for the provincial and All-Ireland series. It's difficult not to imagine that this highly esteemed former player (especially by himself) only has eyes for the seventies looking through green and gold tinted glasses.

For some time now, he and others have been on what might accurately be described as a crusade to discredit modern day Gaelic football. Huge emphasis is placed on the fact (erroneous in my opinion) that the foot has gone out of football. Those of us who were lucky enough to live through and experience the Kerry and Dublin golden years of the seventies, appreciated the new standards these counties brought to Gaelic football. Equally so, Down in the sixties scaled new heights. However, on closer inspection, the Kerry v Dublin encounters, as well as being exciting, often exhilarating in their time, were also error-ridden. The simple truth is that, unlike Spillane alluded to in his article, we enjoyed and appreciated the positives and didn't allow the poorer elements of play to dominate our thoughts.

In essence, these were the best players of their generation, playing our games to the highest standard that anyone could at that time. It is also worth remembering that this was summer football, played in summer conditions, and it is quite unfair to compare this with current Allianz National Football League football. There were no live televised National Football League games back then, only limited highlights, again distorting the reality of comparing like with like. Indeed, one of the most famous commentary lines ("a long, relieving clearance") from the late, great Micheal O'Hehir, gives us an insight into what might have been described as effective play back then. Translated, it means kick the ball as far, long and high as you can towards the other team's goals and hope some of your own players get it!

Thankfully, the game has evolved and players are much more aware of the value of retaining hard earned possession. Of course, it's not a perfect science and mistakes are part and parcel of all improvement. The evolution of Gaelic football continues at a much faster pace than in the past.  Developments and innovation that used to take at first a generation, then perhaps a decade, are now emerging almost annually. The beauty and challenge for all of us involved in Gaelic games is that no-one has a monopoly on innovation and we are only limited by our imaginations.

IT is also worth making the distinction that the game we play is Gaelic football, not football (we call that soccer). Gaelic football embraces a host of skills – kicking only being one of them – so those who are fixated with that narrow view might do well to keep their minds a little more open. The suggested solution for improving the standard of kicking was even more lamentable than the idea that the game depended on this one facet. Old-fashioned kicking in and out of the goal area is recommended as the best way to improve a player's kicking skills. I can only say I wouldn't recommend this to trainee teachers as one of their lessons on teaching practice – that is if they didn't want to be repeating this aspect of their course in the summer term!

To commit such an idea to print on a date other than April Fool's Day is incredible. To further assert that such a process is not nearly sophisticated enough for the modern day coach is even more ridiculous. This was an inane activity, even when it was en vogue in the fifties and sixties. How anyone could seriously assert that this would enhance the skill of kicking in Gaelic football, in the year 2009, is absolutely incomprehensible.

Life is a process of change. So too is the search for sporting excellence. Even teams or individuals who achieve their best, in terms of results in any given season, must embrace innovation if they wish to retain that status. Gaelic football is an ever-evolving sport and the thrill is in the journey, not the destination. Some of the game's past masters are continuing to live there (in the past).

Thank God many others have recognised the need to move on.

Bad day for my old Alma Mater

WITH my obvious Tyrone bias, I was delighted to attend this year's MacRory Cup final in Healy Park to see my old school, Omagh CBS, take on St Patrick's Academy, Dungannon. Unfortunately, I could empathise with the CBS team and my nephew Peter Harte (pictured far right), their captain, as a similar fate befell myself as captain in 1973, when we lost the decider to St Michael's, Enniskillen.

The fact that it was another Tyrone school who took the honours in this case softens the pain at least for those not directly involved in the Omagh side. I would like to congratulate the Academy boys and their mentors, Peter Herron and our own county senior player Ciaran Gourley and wish them well in their efforts to retain the Hogan Cup.

That one is surely destined to be written off as puke writing by Pat. But I enjoyed it ;D

 ;D I thoroughly enjoyed that! I didnt see Spillane's article - did he really suggest that players should spend time kicking the ball up and down???

Aye this was more like it. There is a lot of that 'in my day' blah blah... I thoroughly enjoyed Kerry-Dublin years but it had its shortcomings too. There was a lot of basketball played by those teams. These are great days too and some very exhilerating football  but has its flaws as well. It is never a perfect world. Spillane is a begrudger though he was a fantastic footballer.
However I don't really like Mickey's style of making sircastic remarks in brackets.         

as i may agree with alot of what mickey Harte's says in this article he makes a wrong statement in saying 'Spillane postulates with such authority with regard to coaching that I'm amazed he hasn't put that apparent nous to the test at the top level(or indeed any level) of Gaelic football'

he may not have managed at the top level but this man was manager of his school team,his clubs u/12 and senior team and club chairman,he may be ott but he has put some time into the gaa,as much if not more than mickey harte and alot of what Harte says is total hypocrisy

Quote from: Drumanee 1 on March 20, 2009, 12:19:57 PM
he may not have managed at the top level but this man was manager of his school team,his clubs u/12 and senior team and club chairman,he may be ott but he has put some time into the gaa,as much if not more than mickey harte and alot of what Harte says is total hypocrisy

Exactly, and therefore he hasn't subjected himself to the same mass scrutiny as managers at the top level have, i.e., Spillane hasn't put his product on the line to be dissected by the like of the pundit with his head up his arse that Spillane so often is.

Spillane reminds me of my yer typical aul fella who complains about everything new & that its not a patch on what it was in his day.
He's got a very closed mindset to others people's views and comes across very arrogant and annoying on TV & in the newspapers.

I think most of the current Sunday game viewers would prefer to see him removed from that show as he seems to always add a negativity to everything, even when he's trying to be positive to a team that have won a good game.

I'm just glad to see someone else in the media limelight say it as it is and that is there's none more blind than those who ....

I say a few of us will be buying the Sunday World on Sunday now.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 20, 2009, 12:27:13 PM

Quote from: Drumanee 1 on March 20, 2009, 12:19:57 PM
he may not have managed at the top level but this man was manager of his school team,his clubs u/12 and senior team and club chairman,he may be ott but he has put some time into the gaa,as much if not more than mickey harte and alot of what Harte says is total hypocrisy

Exactly, and therefore he hasn't subjected himself to the same mass scrutiny as managers at the top level have, i.e., Spillane hasn't put his product on the line to be dissected by the like of the pundit with his head up his arse that Spillane so often is.

harte said he has not managed at any level,thats completely wrong.you can go right across the board with this argument ie:hanson,dunphy,hook etc,pundits are there for a reason and that is to give there opinion weather you agree or not,show me a pundit of ant sport which all people agree

Quote from: corn02 on March 20, 2009, 12:42:29 PM
I say a few of us will be buying the Sunday World on Sunday now.

It should be fun anyway!! This will be better than any loyalist feud...

Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 20, 2009, 12:50:00 PM

Quote from: corn02 on March 20, 2009, 12:42:29 PM
I say a few of us will be buying the Sunday World on Sunday now.

It should be fun anyway!! This will be better than any loyalist feud...

Will they maybe try and link the two?

Harte outs Spillane as UDA informer

Quote from: SidelineKick on March 20, 2009, 12:51:48 PM

Quote from: Our Nail Loney on March 20, 2009, 12:50:00 PM

Quote from: corn02 on March 20, 2009, 12:42:29 PM
I say a few of us will be buying the Sunday World on Sunday now.

It should be fun anyway!! This will be better than any loyalist feud...

Will they maybe try and link the two?

Harte outs Spillane as UDA informer

Bomber Liston to help Kerry leader launch attack on the harte of Tyrone?

Anyone else detect through the column today, Mickey's hurt at Spillane's comments (after all if they didn't annoy him he wouldn't mention them) and jealousy that Spillane was a great player unlike himself?

Quote from: T Fearon on March 20, 2009, 01:27:13 PM
Anyone else detect through the column today, Mickey's hurt at Spillane's comments (after all if they didn't annoy him he wouldn't mention them) and jealousy that Spillane was a great player unlike himself?

Nope  ::)

I thought that was probably he best column to date. My only reservation though, is that it could've been written by anyone. I'm still waiting for a column that only someone in the position of Harte could write, a genuine insight into some facet of the inner runnings of the game.

Quote from: AFS on March 20, 2009, 02:17:03 PM
I thought that was probably he best column to date. My only reservation though, is that it could've been written by anyone. I'm still waiting for a column that only someone in the position of Harte could write, a genuine insight into some facet of the inner runnings of the game.

Yeah I've given out about him for pretty much all his previous articles but fair dues to him having a proper go at Spillane... he deserves it and his constant berating of players annoys the shit out of me... fair play MH.

Quote from: AFS on March 20, 2009, 02:17:03 PM
I thought that was probably he best column to date. My only reservation though, is that it could've been written by anyone. I'm still waiting for a column that only someone in the position of Harte could write, a genuine insight into some facet of the inner runnings of the game.

In fairness, as a current manager he can't say too much AFS.

Thought today's was his best rid. I'm looking forward to Round 2! ;)

Best piece from Mickey thus far.

That puke football comment obviously rankled with Harte...what have I constantly been telling you lads about Tyrones need for recognition from Kerry ? What more proof do you need !

read jack o conners book MS and you will see who is looking for the recognition

Quote from: tyronefan on March 20, 2009, 08:02:03 PM
read jack o conners book MS and you will see who is looking for the recognition

Too much Kerry stuff in that book for our Mikey, if it was all about Tyrone he might give it a read.

Yes Mike

Please please please give us true recognition for that 03 victory as we feel we cheated our way to our 1st AI.

We need the forgiveness and blessing of the Kerry people before we can continue on this road.

Quote from: Fuzzman on March 20, 2009, 08:07:26 PM
Yes Mike

Please please please give us true recognition for that 03 victory as we feel we cheated our way to our 1st AI.

We need the forgiveness and blessing of the Kerry people before we can continue on this road.

Did we beat Kerry that year too? It's getting hard to keep track.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 07:18:58 PM
That puke football comment obviously rankled with Harte...what have I constantly been telling you lads about Tyrones need for recognition from Kerry ? What more proof do you need !

WE ARE NOT WORTHY, WE ARE NOT WORTHY! 

The hurt will dissipate in time MS, in time...

Quote from: ziggysego on March 20, 2009, 05:19:14 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 20, 2009, 02:17:03 PM
I thought that was probably he best column to date. My only reservation though, is that it could've been written by anyone. I'm still waiting for a column that only someone in the position of Harte could write, a genuine insight into some facet of the inner runnings of the game.

In fairness, as a current manager he can't say too much AFS.

Thought today's was his best rid. I'm looking forward to Round 2! ;)

What is the point of the column then?

Did anyone buy the Sunday World last week?

Great column this weekend Mickey. That's more like it. We need gutter dressed up in big words.

Quote from: ONeill on March 20, 2009, 09:15:21 PM
Did anyone buy the Sunday World last week?

Great column this weekend Mickey. That's more like it. We need gutter dressed up in big words.

Do people actually buy the Sunday World? What will be the "World Exclusive" this week - "Big Malcy Mc Coubrey, UVF drug lord from Doagh has admitted to buggering a mountain goat. The local UVF bosses are said to be "furious".........." Or something like that...............

I really look forward to a book containing a compilation of Mickey's articles.

Can I suggest a name?

Whinging when you're winning.


Imagine if Alex Ferguson had a column.  ::)

Tyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius. I think this frustrates Harte as all his systems and "innovations"  ::)  cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 10:31:16 PM
Tyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius. I think this frustrates Harte as all his systems and "innovations"  ::)  cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear

I dont think any Tyrone fans would question how good a player Spillane was Mike. Indeed the manner in which he tracked back all over the field would have made him perfectly at home in the Tyrone side of the past few years, he was at the puke football way before his time ;). No the issue here is Spillane's quite awful punditry, for which Mickey has quite rightly taken him to task. For somebody who played the game to such a high standard Spillane shows a startling lack of insight.

What will the theme of the column be next week? Today it was "playing to the crowd".

Well, its quite obvious that the editors had a word in his ear so he decided to pander to the virulent anti-Kerry sentiment that is so prevalent in Ulster. No doubt sales will triple.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 11:22:30 PM
Well, its quite obvious that the editors had a word in his ear so he decided to pander to the virulent anti-Kerry sentiment that is so prevalent in Ulster. No doubt sales will triple.

I am not aware of any Anti Kerry sentiment in Ulster, particularly in Down. Kerry have always set the standard that all counties aspire to. No one can argue against the success that they have consistently achieved. However people like MS seem to find it difficult to recognise that Tyrone have put it up to Kerry over the past decade and it can be a difficult pill to swallow. They have raised the bar and refuse to lie down. Spillane just never gives credit to the rise of Ulster football, not just over the past decade but even to the success of Derry , Down and Donegal in the early 90s. Kerrys easy passage to AI success is now a thing of the past and that can only be a good thing for the health of the game.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 10:31:16 PM
Tyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius. I think this frustrates Harte as all his systems and "innovations"  ::)  cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear

Nail on the head! Post of the year so far!

What does he say? Can some body post his articles? We dont get the Irish News.

Quote from: Silky on March 21, 2009, 09:37:35 AM
What does he say? Can some body post his articles? We dont get the Irish News.

Page 19 on this thread you gimp.

Say 3 Hail Marys and a prayer to the Holy Ghost.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 07:18:58 PM
That puke football comment obviously rankled with Harte...what have I constantly been telling you lads about Tyrones need for recognition from Kerry ? What more proof do you need !

Yet another Kerry one writhing in pain over 2003, 2005 and 2008 and taking the opportunity to have a wee pop at anything Tyrone.

Personally I have  a good laugh at them,

Keep them coming Kerry lads, ;D  ;D  ;D

Tyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius.

would Peter Canavan not fall into this category.  Or should I be saying "Kerry will never produce a player of Canavans genius".

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 20, 2009, 10:31:16 PM
Tyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius. I think this frustrates Harte as all his systems and "innovations"  ::)  cant make a silk purse from a sow's ear

yeah he has to make do with making 3 allirelands from a sows ear ::)
have you ever heard of peter canavan MS?

Poetic and all as he may be sometimes Paddy Heaney's Against the Breeze about St Paul's, Kilrea made for good reading today.

QuoteTyrone will never produce a player of Spillanes genius.

Frankie Donnelly
Frank McGuigan
Peter Canavan

All 3 as good as if not better than Spillane who benefitted from the players around him setting them on a plate for him.

When you listen to the sh*te he talks how on earth could you describe him as a genius? 

...what did McGuigan ever do apart from score a few points against an Armagh(??) defence made up of  cardboard cut outs of defenders. I mean seriously, you lads are great at the auld revisionism when it comes to the Kerry and Dublin teams of the '80s so lets start facing up some home truths about your own hero's. McGuigan was totally overrated.



Canavan was effective but also severely overrated. Not in Spillanes class at all.


wtf is that Donelly fella.....?

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 24, 2009, 07:27:26 PM
...what did McGuigan ever do apart from score a few points against an Armagh(??) defence made up of  cardboard cut outs of defenders. I mean seriously, you lads are great at the auld revisionism when it comes to the Kerry and Dublin teams of the '80s so lets start facing up some home truths about your own hero's. McGuigan was totally overrated.



Canavan was effective but also severely overrated. Not in Spillanes class at all.


wtf is that Donelly fella.....?

Sheehy - like Spillane you talk some drivel. Spillane was a great footballer-brilliant- but for natural ability not in the same class as McGuigan. All you have ever seen is the 11 points when he was half fit- he played for Tyrone in midfield before going to USA and for seniors when still a minor. Extraordinary footballer who you know nothing about. A natural more like Maurice Fitz, only better,  than workhorse Spillane.       

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 24, 2009, 07:27:26 PM
...what did McGuigan ever do apart from score a few points against an Armagh(??) defence made up of  cardboard cut outs of defenders. I mean seriously, you lads are great at the auld revisionism when it comes to the Kerry and Dublin teams of the '80s so lets start facing up some home truths about your own hero's. McGuigan was totally overrated.



Canavan was effective but also severely overrated. Not in Spillanes class at all.


wtf is that Donelly fella.....?

this lad is a good laugh but you are going to have to get out of kerry and see whats going on in the rest of the country.

other counties are playing football and believe it or not some of them are just as good as kerry and some even better

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 24, 2009, 07:27:26 PM
...

wtf is that Donelly fella.....?

Jaysus, Mike, he was some footballer

Pat Spillane was a poor man's Brian Dooher! And nowhere near in the same class as men like Mikey Sheehy, John Egan, Maurice Fitz, Frank McGuigan and Peter Canavan!

QuoteJaysus, Mike, he was some footballer

you're probably right but this is so much more fun than trying to defend the reputation of past kerry players against Nordie revisionism. ;D

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on March 25, 2009, 01:38:37 AM

QuoteJaysus, Mike, he was some footballer

you're probably right but this is so much more fun than trying to defend the reputation of past kerry players against Nordie revisionism. ;D

Definitely right, Mickey

QuoteMcGuigan was totally overrated.

So over-rated that Micheal O'Muirheartigh used to drive to Ardboe to watch him play club football!  But sure what would he know?

Micheal O'Muirheartigh
[/quote]


Can't have this man at all.  I think he s a bluffer!!!

Railway Cup should not be derailed Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
27/03/09

If many of the power-brokers in the GAA have their way, the competition will soon be a thing of the past     It is most regrettable that some of those in the best position to breathe renewed life into the Railway Cup competitions are advocating the last rites for this traditionally great competition.

Lack of public appeal and minimal television interest are cited as valid arguments for their cessation. These perceived failures are hardly surprising when one considers the continuous absence of a coherent plan for the restoration of this highest representative opportunity for the players of Gaelic Games.

In recent years, the GAA have been very fortunate to have had a most willing and generous sponsor in the person of Martin Donnelly. I know from speaking with Martin that he often found himself frustrated with the attempts to rejuvenate the competition. Moving the finals to such places as Paris or Rome, Boston or Abu Dhabi was never going to restore interest where it was first needed – here, at home in Ireland.

Perhaps these glamour destinations for finals were initiated to make the

competition more attractive to the players.

However, such 'incentives' were not necessary as the players saw it as a great honour to represent their province – when they got the chance. Normally 'getting the chance' would mean when you were chosen.

Unfortunately, this was not the case in recent years as the opportunity to represent your province might have to be forfeited because of internal club commitments, provincial club commitments, college/university commitments or, perhaps the greatest travesty of all – because you were committed to another code endorsed by the GAA!!

Going ahead with the most recent competition while the Compromise Rules series (Yes – that again!) was robbing the Ulster manager Joe Kernan of more than half of his team, displayed something close to contempt for this competition. (Would that go some way towards explaining minimal TV coverage?)

The easy talk in the street is to decry the Railway Cup as a phenomenon of the bygone days which is no longer attractive and which has been replaced by a more vibrant club series.

That the culmination of the club series – the All-Ireland club final – takes place in Croke Park on St Patrick's Day virtually endorses the myth.

Yes, the club series has expanded, almost beyond recognition, from a fledgling competition that didn't originally command unequivocal support, to one of the flagship competitions of the GAA calendar.

Indeed, we are currently experiencing an extension of the series to embrace the junior and intermediate clubs as well as the now traditional senior competition.

This enhancement of the club scene is only to be welcomed as this affords many players the

opportunity to represent their county, albeit in club colours.

Ultimately, every club player can harbour the

ambition of playing in a final in Croke Park. But why should this innovation at club level be at the expense of the inter-provincial series? Just as all club players would love to play for their county, so too do county players relish the chance to represent their province.

As I have alluded to on many occasions in the past, this is the highest truly representative outlet for gaelic players. Stars from the past treasured the opportunity to play with and against the best in Ireland – the modern-day players are no different in that respect, except that the players of yesteryear had an appreciative and sizeable spectatorship.

Currently the series is treated as something to be 'fitted in' to the fixtures calendar. In the last decade or more the competition has been almost contemptuously tampered with. The semi-finals might be in February in Killarney one year and on a November Saturday in Ballyshannon another year.

The sentiments appeared to be – get it played, get it off the books, why bother promoting this ageing competition?

A huge effort was initiated by sponsor Martin Donnelly a couple of years ago when the finals were played at the newly-floodlit Croke Park.

A crowd in the region of 10,000 – 11,000 people turned up (TV viewing numbers were estimated at 220,000 ) for what was a most enjoyable night.

However, this was immediately deemed a failure despite the fact that it was the first attempt at giving the competition the credibility it deserves.

Ultimately, what the competition needs is a fixed date in the calendar. Give two clear, uninterrupted weeks over to the hosting of the series. The last two weeks in October might suit. Build the profile of the games with a concentrated multimedia promotional campaign in the six-week period preceeding the games. In essence – rebrand the Railway Cup. There ought to be plate finals as well, giving every player two games in the series. This tournament could then be used as the final analysis for Allstar selection, thus

affording those players who exited the Championships earlier in the year the chance to stake a claim again. (Regularly up to two-thirds of the Allstar teams selected comes from the All-Ireland finalists).

Alternatively, there could be a team from the Railway Cup series chosen to travel with the traditional Allstar team and have a competitive exhibition game rather than the standard of exhibition game that currently prevails.

The finals could be alternated on a single weekend, with hurling on a Saturday under lights at Croke Park and the football on Sunday and vice versa.

Families, youth groups and schools could obtain

attractive packages for one or both events and perhaps entry tickets drawn for the chosen lucky supporters to meet the players.

With proper, professional promotion, imagination and the correct will, the

environment where television coverage would be sought and public interest rediscovered is most feasible.

Zambia mission so worthwhile

Next Thursday, April 2, my former teaching colleague Pascal Canavan, along with another teacher, Claire O'Donnell, and 14 students from St Ciaran's College, Ballygawley leave for a trip to Zambia.

This group are working in conjunction with the SMA group Friends of Africa on a number of projects in Lusaka and Ndola involving street children and orphans.

The St Ciaran's group have raised £30,000 and after their visit they will make a collective decision as to how best this money can be spent.

This is a most innovative approach to missionary work of this nature and a long-term relationship will be formed with whichever project is decided upon.

The group have given themselves the name 'St Ciaran's Peregrini', a name used to describe the first Irish missionaries.

It is hoped that other schools might initiate other missionary links and give new hope to those suffering from the ravages of poverty in the world.

Three other staff from St Ciaran's will spend six weeks in Zambia during the summer, clearly indicating that the idea of mission is alive and well in the school.

I would like to congratulate Pascal and all concerned for embarking on this act of caring and I have no doubt the life lessons learned through this initiative could never be found in a textbook.

Quote from: Minder on March 27, 2009, 09:38:38 AM
perhaps the greatest travesty of all – because you were committed to another code endorsed by the GAA!!

Give it up Mickey
FFS G-i-v-e  i-t  u-p  ::)

He's right though, Martin Donnelly has been shafted time and again by the organisation. I don't know how he perseveres, but he does.

I think the railway cup final should be played before the all Ireland final with members of the two teams playing obviously excluded. 

I liked the idea of bringing the Railway Cup to other countries, sometime just after the AIF. 

It gives the players the chance to be rewarded with travel abroad to represent their province and brings inter-county standard GAA to the ex-pats guaranteeing big crowds.

Jeysus man will he ever shut up about the International rules?  ::)

It's not as if the Railway Cup was in its prime before they were re-established was it and he misses the point about its demise. Its not the players, most love to represent their province, its the supporters. It means nothing to them in this day and age, sadly.

Quote from: under the bar on March 27, 2009, 12:03:18 PM
I liked the idea of bringing the Railway Cup to other countries, sometime just after the AIF. 

It gives the players the chance to be rewarded with travel abroad to represent their province and brings inter-county standard GAA to the ex-pats guaranteeing big crowds.

I doubt there would be more than a couple of thousand - if even that, no matter where the game was played abroad.

I see Antrim have a motion to play the club finals before Christmas.
What about the Railway cup finals on St. Patricks Day with the semis on the same weekend as the Sigersons?

Lads no matter where & when the Railway Cup is played there is zero interest in them from the paying public. Fact.

QuoteI liked the idea of bringing the Railway Cup to other countries, sometime just after the AIF. 

It gives the players the chance to be rewarded with travel abroad to represent their province and brings inter-county standard GAA to the ex-pats guaranteeing big crowds.

I doubt there would be more than a couple of thousand - if even that, no matter where the game was played abroad.

Have to disagree.   If it was played in cities like Boston, Philly, Sydney etc directly after the AIF there'd be big crowds if the admission price was right and kids free.

How many people attended the All Starts game in San Francisco?

Also, whilst obviously not a direct comparison, how many exiles from the 'away' county turn up to watch London and New York's championship games when in London or New York?

I can't see any evidence of the pulling power of such a suggestion.

I agree about playing it before the AI Final - sure there are plenty of neutrals there and it'd be a chance for Derry and Armagh folk to taste AI day action in the modern era.

Quote from: ONeill on March 27, 2009, 02:05:14 PM
I agree about playing it before the AI Final - sure there are plenty of neutrals there and it'd be a chance for Derry and Armagh folk to taste AI day action in the modern era.

The "modern era" starting in 2004 I take it?  ::)

QuoteI agree about playing it before the AI Final - sure there are plenty of neutrals there and it'd be a chance for Derry and Armagh folk to taste AI day action in the modern era.


The "modern era" starting in 2004 I take it? 

Don't be silly.  It was 2003!

Quote from: under the bar on March 27, 2009, 03:31:14 PM

QuoteI agree about playing it before the AI Final - sure there are plenty of neutrals there and it'd be a chance for Derry and Armagh folk to taste AI day action in the modern era.


The "modern era" starting in 2004 I take it? 

Don't be silly.  It was 2003!

Yes, remind me who Tyrone were playing again  ::)

Why did he not see the hypocrisy in continually emphasising the fact that the players love playing in the Railway Cup, while at the same time dismissing another competition the players love taking part in, the IR series?

Quote from: Maguire01 on March 27, 2009, 01:50:06 PM
How many people attended the All Starts game in San Francisco?

Also, whilst obviously not a direct comparison, how many exiles from the 'away' county turn up to watch London and New York's championship games when in London or New York?

I can't see any evidence of the pulling power of such a suggestion.

The all star game is low in attendance for the reason that it isnt competitive. Taking the competitiveness out of a gaelic game just makes it a terrible spectacle.

Quote from: Puckoon on March 27, 2009, 04:20:02 PM

Quote from: Maguire01 on March 27, 2009, 01:50:06 PM
How many people attended the All Starts game in San Francisco?

Also, whilst obviously not a direct comparison, how many exiles from the 'away' county turn up to watch London and New York's championship games when in London or New York?

I can't see any evidence of the pulling power of such a suggestion.

The all star game is low in attendance for the reason that it isnt competitive. Taking the competitiveness out of a gaelic game just makes it a terrible spectacle.

Much like the Railway Cup.

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
Why did he not see the hypocrisy in continually emphasising the fact that the players love playing in the Railway Cup, while at the same time dismissing another competition the players love taking part in, the IR series?

One is Gaelic Games, the other most definitely isn't. No hypocrisy. The players may well love shagging too, but not to be accommodated under the auspices of the GAA.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 27, 2009, 04:32:45 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
Why did he not see the hypocrisy in continually emphasising the fact that the players love playing in the Railway Cup, while at the same time dismissing another competition the players love taking part in, the IR series?

One is Gaelic Games, the other most definitely isn't. No hypocrisy. The players may well love shagging too, but not to be accommodated under the auspices of the GAA.

That's the rather simplistic argument that Mickey has been pushing onto people for a while. They're patently not the apples and oranges that you (and Mickey) like to paint them as. Players are selected to represent the Irish IR team based on their Gaelic footballing prowess. The IR may not be 100% Gaelic football but its as close as your realistically gonna get on the international stage. Its a real pity Mickey doesn't accept this.

But, the selection process is neither here nor there, it's the playing that is all that matters. And with a defeatist attitude like that, you may well be correct.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 27, 2009, 04:47:28 PM
But, the selection process is neither here nor there, it's the playing that is all that matters. And with a defeatist attitude like that, you may well be correct.

There's a difference between defeatism and realism  ;)

Who was it said "Defeat is acceptable"?


Oh yes, I remember now.  It was Nelson Mandela's chiropodist!

Micky will be forever remembered as one of the great GAA managers, he may be remembered for his Spiritualism, he may be remembered as an outstanding teacher but I don't think his journalism will last long in the memory.

As much as I'd love the GAA do more to promote the Railway Cup, I don't believe playing it before the AI Final is the answer. That honour goes to the Minors.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 27, 2009, 04:32:45 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
Why did he not see the hypocrisy in continually emphasising the fact that the players love playing in the Railway Cup, while at the same time dismissing another competition the players love taking part in, the IR series?

One is Gaelic Games, the other most definitely isn't. No hypocrisy. The players may well love shagging too, but not to be accommodated under the auspices of the GAA.

I think AFS's point is that if Mickey is happy to use the players' feelings to help justify the survival of one competition, he shouldn't disregard them in relation to another, just because he doesn't like the other. I have to agree.

Quote from: ziggysego on March 27, 2009, 05:39:50 PM
As much as I'd love the GAA do more to promote the Railway Cup, I don't believe playing it before the AI Final is the answer. That honour goes to the Minors.

I agree. I also think that ruling out the AI finalists would only futher undermine the value of the competition. The Railway Cup should showacse the best players from each province and playing before the AI would not facilitate that.

Quote from: Maguire01 on March 27, 2009, 06:10:15 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 27, 2009, 04:32:45 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
Why did he not see the hypocrisy in continually emphasising the fact that the players love playing in the Railway Cup, while at the same time dismissing another competition the players love taking part in, the IR series?

One is Gaelic Games, the other most definitely isn't. No hypocrisy. The players may well love shagging too, but not to be accommodated under the auspices of the GAA.

I think AFS's point is that if Mickey is happy to use the players' feelings to help justify the survival of one competition, he shouldn't disregard them in relation to another, just because he doesn't like the other. I have to agree.

That's the gist of it alright Maguire. The players are talking shite when professing their fondness for the IR, but they're great lads when talking about how much they like playing in the Railway Cup. Very selective argument from Mickey.

Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on March 27, 2009, 05:01:50 PM
Micky will be forever remembered as one of the great GAA managers, he may be remembered for his Spiritualism, he may be remembered as an outstanding teacher but I don't think his journalism will last long in the memory.

To be regarded as a great manager, you have to have taken your county to back-to-back All Ireland Championship wins.  This is something Harte has failed to do so I don't see where the 'great' title comes from, why anyone in the world would think he would be remembered for his spiritualism, I have no idea.  Not hiding your beliefs and publicising what you actually do believe are different things completely.  Harte's teaching capabilities are only to be assessed by parents of pupils he has taught.

If we look at his Gaelic Football abilities in terms of how many medals he has, I wonder where he would be ranked?

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 27, 2009, 11:13:18 PM

Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on March 27, 2009, 05:01:50 PM
Micky will be forever remembered as one of the great GAA managers, he may be remembered for his Spiritualism, he may be remembered as an outstanding teacher but I don't think his journalism will last long in the memory.

To be regarded as a great manager, you have to have taken your county to back-to-back All Ireland Championship wins.  This is something Harte has failed to do so I don't see where the 'great' title comes from, why anyone in the world would think he would be remembered for his spiritualism, I have no idea.  Not hiding your beliefs and publicising what you actually do believe are different things completely.  Harte's teaching capabilities are only to be assessed by parents of pupils he has taught.

If we look at his Gaelic Football abilities in terms of how many medals he has, I wonder where he would be ranked?

Shit talk. So if Harte won the All-Irelands of 2003, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 you wouldn't consider him a great manager. Quit the tabloid talk.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 27, 2009, 11:13:18 PM

Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on March 27, 2009, 05:01:50 PM
Micky will be forever remembered as one of the great GAA managers, he may be remembered for his Spiritualism, he may be remembered as an outstanding teacher but I don't think his journalism will last long in the memory.

To be regarded as a great manager, you have to have taken your county to back-to-back All Ireland Championship wins.  This is something Harte has failed to do so I don't see where the 'great' title comes from, why anyone in the world would think he would be remembered for his spiritualism, I have no idea.  Not hiding your beliefs and publicising what you actually do believe are different things completely.  Harte's teaching capabilities are only to be assessed by parents of pupils he has taught.

If we look at his Gaelic Football abilities in terms of how many medals he has, I wonder where he would be ranked?

Even by Armagh posting standards, that has to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on this Board

QuoteIf we look at his Gaelic Football abilities in terms of how many medals he has, I wonder where he would be ranked?

Considerably higher than any past, present or future one-hit-wonder from Armagh!  ;D

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 27, 2009, 11:13:18 PM
To be regarded as a great manager, you have to have taken your county to back-to-back All Ireland Championship wins. 

That's balls. He will be remembered as a great manager, even if he wins nothing else with Tyrone. Before him, Tyrone had no All Irelands, now they have 3.

Using your logic, who are the great GAA managers?

Quote from: ONeill on March 27, 2009, 11:25:39 PM

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 27, 2009, 11:13:18 PM

Quote from: tonesfirstandlast on March 27, 2009, 05:01:50 PM
Micky will be forever remembered as one of the great GAA managers, he may be remembered for his Spiritualism, he may be remembered as an outstanding teacher but I don't think his journalism will last long in the memory.

To be regarded as a great manager, you have to have taken your county to back-to-back All Ireland Championship wins.  This is something Harte has failed to do so I don't see where the 'great' title comes from, why anyone in the world would think he would be remembered for his spiritualism, I have no idea.  Not hiding your beliefs and publicising what you actually do believe are different things completely.  Harte's teaching capabilities are only to be assessed by parents of pupils he has taught.

If we look at his Gaelic Football abilities in terms of how many medals he has, I wonder where he would be ranked?

Shit talk. So if Harte won the All-Irelands of 2003, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 you wouldn't consider him a great manager. Quit the tabloid talk.

It's not tabloid talk, have a titter of wit, will ya?

Name me one other manager who is described as great who didn't achieve back to back All Irelands.  That's the benchmark. Joe Kernan will be remembered for his achievements with Cross more than being manager in 2002.  I wouldn't describe Joe as a great manager either, incidentally.

Seriously, some Tyronies talk about Harte as if he were God Almighty.

Maguire, Micko springs to mind immediately.  He is someone who would deserve to be called 'great'.  Harte is a good manager in terms of what he has inspired Tyrone to achieve thus far.  If he does it again this year, he will deserve to be called a great manager.

So a manager could win 10 all-ireland but if none were back to back then he's plainly not a great manager? 

No-one obviously understood the definition of "great" until you came along.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Quote from: under the bar on March 28, 2009, 11:37:24 PM
So a manager could win 10 all-ireland but if none were back to back then he's plainly not a great manager? 

No-one obviously understood the definition of "great" until you came along.  Thanks for clearing that up.

::)

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:50:47 PM
There's a difference between defeatism and realism  ;)

Well I'm so glad that Cusack & Co weren't as "realistic" as you, otherwise the meeting in Hayes Hotel in Thurles on the 1st November 1884 might have gone as follows:

Michael Cusack Lads, I've convened this meeting with a view to having established one "Gaelic Athletic Association" to promote our native games of Gaelic Football, Hurling, Camogie and handball with a mission statement of "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes".
Maurice Davin Jeez, the soccer is very strong.
John Wyse Power Yeah, it's too strong.
John McKay And the rugby is very strong too.
J. K. Bracken Yep, it's too strong too.
Joseph O'Ryan And the hockey too.
Thomas St. George McCarthy Not to mention tiddlywinks.
Frank Moloney It's too big an ask, we have to be realistic.
Michael Cusack Fair enough, anyone for a jar before we head home?

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 29, 2009, 06:23:19 PM

Quote from: AFS on March 27, 2009, 04:50:47 PM
There's a difference between defeatism and realism  ;)

Well I'm so glad that Cusack & Co weren't as "realistic" as you, otherwise the meeting in Hayes Hotel in Thurles on the 1st November 1884 might have gone as follows:

Michael Cusack Lads, I've convened this meeting with a view to having established one "Gaelic Athletic Association" to promote our native games of Gaelic Football, Hurling, Camogie and handball with a mission statement of "The Association is a National Organisation which has as its basic aim the strengthening of the National Identity of a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic games and pastimes".
Maurice Davin Jeez, the soccer is very strong.
John Wyse Power Yeah, it's too strong.
John McKay And the rugby is very strong too.
J. K. Bracken Yep, it's too strong too.
Joseph O'Ryan And the hockey too.
Thomas St. George McCarthy Not to mention tiddlywinks.
Frank Moloney It's too big an ask, we have to be realistic.
Michael Cusack Fair enough, anyone for a jar before we head home?

C'mon, you aren't seriously trying to compare the promotion of a national organisation in it's native country to the promotion of it internationally. Its a completely different situation and you well know it.

Without getting into the reasons why international GAA is nothing more than a pie in the sky fairytale, there are far more pressing and realistic(there's that word again) targets such as the hundreds of thousands of kids on this island with next to no heed in GAA or the two thirds of the country with no real hurling presence. This is where money and effort should be focused, not some silly pipe dream, regardless of who is promoting it.

Quote from: AFS on March 29, 2009, 07:00:55 PM
C'mon, you aren't seriously trying to compare the promotion of a national organisation in it's native country to the promotion of it internationally. Its a completely different situation and you well know it.

In 1884, it was a massive ask, massive, and it's all about the promotion of the games, be that national or international. It's always easier to find reasons not to do something, and I'm glad they didn't take succour in that in 1884.

What's the importance of having GAA played all over the world anyway?

QuoteWhat's the importance of having GAA played all over the world anyway?

Cos if you don't grow, you shrink.

Quote from: under the bar on March 30, 2009, 08:56:55 AM

QuoteWhat's the importance of having GAA played all over the world anyway?

Cos if you don't grow, you shrink.

Or stay the same.

The GAA is well able to sustain itself on the basis of its activities in Ireland. If anything, the cost of the GAA's current activities outside of Ireland (such as London and New York's involvements in our main compeitions) are probably a serious drain on resources. The cost of London's involvement in Division 4 is hardly being covered by the gate receipts from their games.

I like todays read - its relevant and its brave.   Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that?    He deals effectively with the stuff the rest of us dont get into, and you can hear the whack of a sodden wet towel on the arse of the punditry and media bloodhounds out to get Tommy mc Guigan.   I now only buy the irish news on a Friday and Monday. 

Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
I like todays read - its relevant and its brave.   Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that?    He deals effectively with the stuff the rest of us dont get into, and you can hear the whack of a sodden wet towel on the arse of the punditry and media bloodhounds out to get Tommy mc Guigan.   I now only buy the irish news on a Friday and Monday. 

Absolutely, the abolition of the U-21 championship is totally taboo in our house and is spoken about only in hushed tones.

Teenage starlets get kick from county show

THERE has been much debate in recent years about the necessity for the continuation of the U21 competitions.

Many of those with the most access to the airwaves and print media often espouse that this competition no longer fulfils the purpose for which it was initiated. I would definitely contest such a view.

The simple argument is that since the numbers attending third-level education is ever on the increase, there is no need to accommodate this age group at county level. How wrong is that? To equate playing for your university/college (however successful they might be) to representing your county is naive to say the least.

These people would further argue that the U21s and minors should both be scrapped and replaced by an U19 competition. The suggestion here is further 'validated' by indicating that A-levels and leaving cert exams would not coincide with this innovative, all-embracing alternative underage outlet.

The argument is weak on two fronts. Firstly, we encourage our young people today to lead a

balanced life, hence they ought to be able to integrate study, a social life and sport in appropriate proportions.

Additionally, it has always been the case that U18 teams included many who were still only

17-years-old, and therefore not in the throes of their final school exams. If the competition became an U19 event, then it's fairly reasonable to suspect that it would be made up of players from the 18 and 19 age group (doesn't exactly solve the exam crisis).

As well as that, removing the two competitions for a single U19 series has other inherent flaws. The opportunity to play for your county at senior level – especially on a regular basis – is only in the domain of a privileged few.

The general statistics indicate that, even from a successful minor team, no more than two will be first team regulars by the time they are 28. Occasionally there are exceptions to this, Tyrone '98 being a case in point, yet even in this case only two players actually started both the '98 minor final and the 2008 senior final.

Currently, young players have a chance at 17 and 18 (and a few at 16) to represent their county. Again at 19, 20 and 21, the opportunity is available to those who achieve the required standard. For the large majority of players, this is as good as it gets, and those who don't go beyond these categories really treasure the experience.

Additionally, it is a widely accepted fact that very few minors can make the transition directly to senior level. Indeed, it has often proved detrimental to developing talent. The opportunity to develop at 19, 20 and 21 to county standard among players of their own age group, and with similarly developing physiques, is essential for the majority of these young athletes.

The suggestion, alluded to earlier in this article by opponents of the U21 series, that third-level football is a suitable alternative for this grade of inter-county football, lacks substance in other ways.

In Ulster, for example, there are only three universities/colleges (UUJ, Queen's and St Mary's) competing at the highest level. That's three squads of 30, at most, who can expect to play at this standard. Given that the average student attends for four years and many current (established) county senior players are available to these institutions, that doesn't

exactly cater for huge amounts of emerging talent.

DESPITE the increase in third-level courses, there are still significant numbers who do not attend university, others who decide to leave, and yet more who feel unable or unwilling to challenge for the limited places available at this level.

Alternatively, there are nineinter-county squads in Ulster offering up to 270 players the chance to participate at this level.

All players look back with particular pride at having represented their county at any level.

Even better if they have been fortunate enough to reach an Ulster final and somewhat blessed if they have experienced an All-Ireland final day.

Any suggestion to reduce such opportunities for our young athletes is simply not acceptable.

While this discussion is based in the context of inter-county football, I believe it has equal resonance in the club scene. This is particularly true in clubs with a large youth base, where two adult teams cannot accommodate all who wish to play and many are therefore lost to our games.

Refs under pressure to review decisions

IT'S wonderful to see that inconsistency is alive and well within the discipline domain of the GAA.

With the SSCC (Setanta Selective Control Committee) allied to, and reinforced by, the PMSC (Print Media Selective Committee), it was hardly surprising to find out officially, after more than 24 hours on the media grapevine, that the incident involving Tommy McGuigan (pictured below left) and Sean Marty Lockhart in our game against Derry last weekend was to become the subject of further investigation.

This incident was dealt with by the referee at the time (in fact, David Coldrick (pictured below right) spent 25 seconds dealing directly with Tommy before he issued a black card).

Of course, we are all now aware that the referee may be asked to reconsider his

interpretation of a particular incident if the regulator, Setanta Sports in this case, decide it is one of the highlights.

And we also know that the referee feels under no pressure to change his view if he has no ambition to get more top quality games.

Conversely, however, if you accept that you acted with a degree of incompetence in the first instance, then a high-flying career with the whistle is most likely.

This scenario reminds me of the story about the guy who went to the theatre to see a play and couldn't wait to read what the critics said about it to see if he liked it or not.

Was the referee asked to review any of the rest of his decisions? It seems strange that there have been more than 60 games played in all four divisions of the National Football League since the Ricey incident, and I am not aware of any other reviews.

Statistically, how likely is that?

Statistically how likely is it that Mickey wins the TV/print media/Gaa/referee 'victim of the year award'?

Actually he should go straight to the Victim Hall of Fame.

Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that? 

Have you been reading the same column as the rest of us? He has been rehashing arguments that have been doing the rounds for years.

QuoteAnd we also know that the referee feels under no pressure to change his view if he has no ambition to get more top quality games.

Conversely, however, if you accept that you acted with a degree of incompetence in the first instance, then a high-flying career with the whistle is most likely.

Harte has crossed the line here. Surely this is a case of a current team manager trying to influence a referee via the print media ?

is it not the truth

Quote from: tyronefan on April 03, 2009, 07:50:26 PM
is it not the truth

At the very most it is his opinion.

Paddy Russell said the very same thing in his book

Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2009, 06:40:46 PM
Statistically how likely is it that Mickey wins the TV/print media/Gaa/referee 'victim of the year award'?

Actually he should go straight to the Victim Hall of Fame.

Why didn't he have the balls to come out and say that he felt there was some sort of conspiracy against Tyrone because that's what the article stank of. Expect a visit from a Victims Commissioner soon.

Quote from: Tony Baloney on April 03, 2009, 08:29:16 PM

Quote from: muppet on April 03, 2009, 06:40:46 PM
Statistically how likely is it that Mickey wins the TV/print media/Gaa/referee 'victim of the year award'?

Actually he should go straight to the Victim Hall of Fame.

Why didn't he have the balls to come out and say that he felt there was some sort of conspiracy against Tyrone because that's what the article stank of. Expect a visit from a Victims Commissioner soon.

Because that's the job of the Tyrone posters on the board!

Actually agree with him on the u21 point. I think its a worthwhile competition which should be retained though the scheduling maybe needs a little more tweaking. As far as teenage player burn out is concerned, one very simple step would be to scrap the league stages of the McRory Cup and the Ryan Cup in Universities football. Both pretty much meaningless preliminary competitions which mean that over stretched players fail to get a proper winter break.

Quote from: tyronefan on April 03, 2009, 07:59:51 PM
Paddy Russell said the very same thing in his book

Then it must be true!

Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
I like todays read - its relevant and its brave.   Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that?    He deals effectively with the stuff the rest of us dont get into, and you can hear the whack of a sodden wet towel on the arse of the punditry and media bloodhounds out to get Tommy mc Guigan.   I now only buy the irish news on a Friday and Monday. 

Oh mother of Jaysus!

sixteen of the thirty two counties get ONE game in U21s
Eight get TWO games.
Can someone explain to me how this competition brings on players.
On another note:
Harte claims there are 3 universities for nine counties!
Do the Monaghan, Donegal and Cavan students all come to Belfast?

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 04, 2009, 02:36:31 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
I like todays read - its relevant and its brave.   Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that?    He deals effectively with the stuff the rest of us dont get into, and you can hear the whack of a sodden wet towel on the arse of the punditry and media bloodhounds out to get Tommy mc Guigan.   I now only buy the irish news on a Friday and Monday. 

Oh mother of Jaysus!

Yip, that is embarrassing. even for rrhf.

Quote from: Winnie Peg on April 04, 2009, 03:00:23 PM
sixteen of the thirty two counties get ONE game in U21s
Eight get TWO games.
Can someone explain to me how this competition brings on players.
On another note:
Harte claims there are 3 universities for nine counties!
Do the Monaghan, Donegal and Cavan students all come to Belfast?

All of the Fermanagh, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh, Down and Antrim students don't even go to Belfast - i don't think the other three are any different.

Mickey's great :)

Quote from: ziggysego on April 04, 2009, 04:07:00 PM
Mickey's great :)

I thought you liked girls Ziggy?

Quote from: The GAA on April 04, 2009, 03:02:49 PM

Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on April 04, 2009, 02:36:31 PM

Quote from: rrhf on April 03, 2009, 10:10:31 AM
I like todays read - its relevant and its brave.   Like a magician Harte seems to be able to pluck the issues from thin air and the reader finds themselves nodding and saying to themselves, why didnt I think of that?    He deals effectively with the stuff the rest of us dont get into, and you can hear the whack of a sodden wet towel on the arse of the punditry and media bloodhounds out to get Tommy mc Guigan.   I now only buy the irish news on a Friday and Monday. 

Oh mother of Jaysus!

Yip, that is embarrassing. even for rrhf.

rrhf, Tyrone Dreamer, Tyrones Own, Gabriel Hurl.....this kind of tripe is par for the course for these lads. Complete eejits, the lot of them. Mickeys little helpers is all they are.

Mickey's little helpers? Nah, those slots are already taken.

Paudi O'Se
Jack O'Connor
Pat O'Shea

Just bought Mondays Irish news........ cant wait for Fridays.
Mike yes are taking this national league far too seriously yes will be all blown out by September.   

No one is taking the league seriously I assure you.  I think you should be more concerned with probably the most undignified league campaign by an AI winner in living memory. You lads should hang your heads in shame. 

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 06, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
No one is taking the league seriously I assure you.  I think you should be more concerned with probably the most undignified league campaign by an AI winner in living memory. You lads should hang your heads in shame. 

Seconded!

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 06, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
No one is taking the league seriously I assure you.  I think you should be more concerned with probably the most undignified league campaign by an AI winner in living memory. You lads should hang your heads in shame. 

Seriously Milke this obsession with Tyrone has to stop. I'd say 75% of your posts are Tyrone related, thats not healthy. I know you's have suffered a lot to Tyrone recently and Tyrone are the team of the decade but moaning constantly about Tyrone isnt going to take that away.

Kerry do take the league seriously. The roll of honour says so:

Kerry 18  1928, 1929, 1931, 1932, 1959,1961, 1963, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1977, 1982, 1984, 1997, 2004, 2006
Mayo 11  1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1949, 1954, 1970, 2001
Dublin 9  1953, 1955, 1958, 1964, 1976, 1978, 1987, 1991, 1993
Meath 7 1933, 1946, 1951, 1975, 1988, 1990, 1994
Derry 6  1947, 1992, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2008
Cork 5  1952, 1956, 1980, 1989, 1999
Down 4  1960, 1962, 1968, 1983
Galway 4  1957, 1965, 1967, 1981
Laois 2  1926, 1986
Cavan 2  1948, 1950
Tyrone 2  2002, 2003
Armagh 1  2005
Longford 1  1966
Monaghan 1  1985
Roscommon 1  1979
Offaly 1  1998
Donegal 1  2007

QuoteNo one is taking the league seriously I assure you.  I think you should be more concerned with probably the most undignified league campaign by an AI winner in living memory. You lads should hang your heads in shame.

Yes we hang our heads as we polish the Sam Maguire, Tommy Markham and Hogan cups together, something the rest of you have never and are unlikely to ever see in your county at once.

Got any brasso?

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on April 06, 2009, 10:07:35 PM

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 06, 2009, 07:41:54 PM
No one is taking the league seriously I assure you.  I think you should be more concerned with probably the most undignified league campaign by an AI winner in living memory. You lads should hang your heads in shame. 

Seriously Milke this obsession with Tyrone has to stop. I'd say 75% of your posts are Tyrone related, thats not healthy. I know you's have suffered a lot to Tyrone recently and Tyrone are the team of the decade but moaning constantly about Tyrone isnt going to take that away.

Really? There is still a year of this decade to go and my count would be Kerry 4 Tyrone 3... but yeah ok Tyrone are because they say so!  ::) ::) ::)

QuoteReally? There is still a year of this decade to go and my count would be Kerry 4 Tyrone 3... but yeah ok Tyrone are because they say so!

Yeah lots of the winning Kerry team of 2000 played in 2008.....  ::)

Quote from: Aaron Boone on April 06, 2009, 10:15:37 PM
Kerry do take the league seriously. The roll of honour says so:

Kerry 18  1928, 1929, 1931, 1932, 1959,1961, 1963, 1969, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1977, 1982, 1984, 1997, 2004, 2006
Mayo 11  1934, 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, 1941, 1949, 1954, 1970, 2001
Dublin 9  1953, 1955, 1958, 1964, 1976, 1978, 1987, 1991, 1993
Meath 7 1933, 1946, 1951, 1975, 1988, 1990, 1994
Derry 6  1947, 1992, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2008
Cork 5  1952, 1956, 1980, 1989, 1999
Down 4  1960, 1962, 1968, 1983
Galway 4  1957, 1965, 1967, 1981
Laois 2  1926, 1986
Cavan 2  1948, 1950
Tyrone 2  2002, 2003
Armagh 1  2005
Longford 1  1966
Monaghan 1  1985
Roscommon 1  1979
Offaly 1  1998
Donegal 1  2007

How long did i take ye to type all that out?

Quote from: under the bar on April 06, 2009, 11:14:23 PM

QuoteReally? There is still a year of this decade to go and my count would be Kerry 4 Tyrone 3... but yeah ok Tyrone are because they say so!

Yeah lots of the winning Kerry team of 2000 played in 2008.....  ::)

What's that got to do with anything... the decade would be... hang on... the last 10 years not the 10 years between 2003 and fecking 2013... catch a grip man how blinkered are you?!

QuoteSeriously Milke this obsession with Tyrone has to stop. I'd say 75% of your posts are Tyrone related, thats not healthy. I know you's have suffered a lot to Tyrone recently and Tyrone are the team of the decade but moaning constantly about Tyrone isnt going to take that away.

and leave the board to you Tyrone WUM's .....not a chance.  Somebody has to keep ye in line.

QuoteKerry do take the league seriously. The roll of honour says so:

Not taking it serious as in, yes, they want to win every game but its not the be all and end all. Bringing new players in (or getting older ones back up to speed) is what its about. If the competition for places results in wins, well then I'm sure JOC and the boys are happy with that too but I dont think they'll lose any sleep if Galway or Derry beat us in the final.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2009, 01:26:44 AM

QuoteKerry do take the league seriously. The roll of honour says so:

Not taking it serious as in, yes, they want to win every game but its not the be all and end all. Bringing new players in (or getting older ones back up to speed) is what its about. If the competition for places results in wins, well then I'm sure JOC and the boys are happy with that too but I dont think they'll lose any sleep if Galway or Derry beat us in the final.

Mike, that part in bold is just bullsh1t, yes they may use the league as a way of getting player up to speed etc but a final is a final and any team at that stage is there to win it no matter what competition and especially the 2nd most important one. Also Kerry have been beaten in the 3 finals they have played in 2007. The most important thing to JOC will be to win the league again so the players get the confidence again that they may actually be able to win something again, not just compete to the finish line before pulling up short.

Did I say they wouldn't try to win it...? No I didnt. I said IF they lose they wont lose any sleep over it.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on April 07, 2009, 05:48:36 AM
Did I say they wouldn't try to win it...? No I didnt. I said IF they lose they wont lose any sleep over it.

Which again is bullsh1t. If Kerry loose another final especially if they start well and build up a lead, it will signal that there is absolutely no improvement under JOC in 2009. This will increase the pressure on the Kerry players that they must perfrom in the championship with the fans expecting to win the All-Ireland and we all seen last year when the pressure was on in a final how the faltered to deceive in 3 finals.

Look, you seem like one of the few non-WUM Tyronies on here so I will simply state that winning the league is not very high on JOC's list of priorities no matter how much you claim it is. Now that they are in the final they will, of course, try to win it but the result will have no bearing on the championship.   

Listen Mike Feck away back off and commiserate with your Buddy Pat over his demotion, both your views are interesting but irrelevant the way Gaelic Football has moved on.  Leave the rising star of journalism that is Mickey Harte alone and console the fallen Kerry man on his demise - its only human. 

QuoteReally? There is still a year of this decade to go and my count would be Kerry 4 Tyrone 3... but yeah ok Tyrone are because they say so!

Yeah lots of the winning Kerry team of 2000 played in 2008..... 

What's that got to do with anything... the decade would be... hang on... the last 10 years not the 10 years between 2003 and fecking 2013... catch a grip man how blinkered are you?!

Then you are confusing "team" with "county".  Using that basis having won 4 all-irelands since 2000 Kerry as a county have the upperhand, however it is not even remotely the same team.    Tyrone's teams of 2003/05/08 have had essentially the same nucleus AND having beaten Kerry on each occasion.  Not hard to work out if you're half intelligent, but then again.....

In this decade (which is what we are talking about) Tyrone have won 3 All Irelands, 3 Ulsters and 2 National leagues to Kerrys 4 All Irelands, 6 Munsters and 2 National Leagues.  I think its fair to say Kerry have the upper hand on this one.  Not hard to work out if you're half intelligent, but then again.....

QuoteLeave the rising star of journalism that is Mickey Harte

Rising star ? he writes waffle for the Irish News which is just a Nordie propaganda rag !

Quote from: SidelineKick on April 07, 2009, 09:18:52 AM
In this decade (which is what we are talking about) Tyrone have won 3 All Irelands, 3 Ulsters and 2 National leagues to Kerrys 4 All Irelands, 6 Munsters and 2 National Leagues.  I think its fair to say Kerry have the upper hand  ::) on this one.  Not hard to work out if you're half intelligent, but then again.....

Three-Nil  :P :P :P

Time to take positive from negative rules experiment Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
10/04/09

AS the Annual Congress of the GAA draws ever closer, the debate around the experimental rules intensifies.

I had an open mind when they were introduced and was prepared to be persuaded, or otherwise, when they were tested in the field.

Having experienced this new departure for nine of our games (three in the McKenna Cup and six in the Allianz League) and watched numerous other games on television, my conclusion is that the existing rules applied consistently are more than adequate.

Indeed, before we enter any kind of detailed debate as to the value, or otherwise, in terms of the finer detail of the proposals, we ought to keep a degree of perspective on the situation.

It's now a well accepted fact that you get more of what you look for.

If you like a new model of a motorcar and harbour notions of buying one, isn't it amazing just how many of them you see on your daily journey to work?

Has the number of such vehicles currently on the road increased dramatically?

Absolutely not. However, since your mind is drawn towards them, they seem more prolific.

Therein lies the fundamental difficulty with the introduction of these experimental rules.

The chief selling point by those who espoused their necessity was heavily weighted on a premise of the acute need to remove

cynicism and thuggery from our games.

While such honourable intentions would meet with universal approval, this approach created an environment where the focus was on what we didn't want rather than what we desired.

Unfortunately, the number and colour of cards produced in the game became more of the focus rather than the quality of individual or team skills on display.

Referees came under increasing pressure to 'clean up the game' and the whole focus of their

attention became one of catching people transgressing in specific ways, perhaps dividing their attention disproportionately from their core task, that of officiating in a balanced and fair way.

The view I am expressing here is further endorsed by the fact that, when the referees were brought together to analyse footage in

relation to the new rules, the examples were, of necessity, all to do with fouls of an apparent or actual aggressive nature.

Though I am not well enough informed to categorically state, I fancy there wasn't any time given over at these collective review sessions for referees to study any other aspect of quality performance.

Furthermore, I would have to conclude, based on live and recorded experience, that these review sessions did not serve the desired purpose  that of achieving greater consistency.

There have been countless examples of different interpretations of the same rules and, while it is fair to assume in the initial stages of implementation there will be teething problems, the facts are that far from attaining greater consistency, even greater confusion reigns.

When one considers that we now have been exposed to anything from eight to 10 games under the proposed changes, and despite the best efforts of the administrators to instil a consistent interpretation, the evidence suggests otherwise.

The 'head high tackle' (foul) is undoubtedly the most problematic of all as this was included to deal with the so-called 'clothesline' foul and has been regularly confused with innocent and clumsy fouls. In fact, I don't believe I have seen a dangerous foul of that nature in any of the games we have played and yet several players have been sent off for so-called 'head high tackles' (fouls).

On reflection, then, perhaps the real lessons to be taken from the experimental rules is that we don't need to change rules at all.

That in itself will have made the exercise worthwhile. There is no doubt there is now a greater awareness of what constitutes quality tackling and what doesn't quite qualify for that title.

Now is the time for a change of focus. Replace the negative language of cynicism, thuggery and foul play with attention to the creative skills of controlled passing, quality tackling vision, fielding, energy and honest commitment. Doesn't the game look better already?

And haven't there already been rules there to deal with the unsavoury (in real terms minimal) aspect of our games?

Decision is missed chance

AS is by now well documented, to say I am disappointed at the removal of our first round Ulster Championship game from Healy Park to Clones, is somewhat of an understatement.

We (that is the management and players) would have been more than happy to play the game at Healy Park if Croke Park was not available on that date.

From the moment the draw partnered ourselves and Armagh in the first round, it was clear to everyone that the demand for entry to the game would exceed the capacity in Omagh.

It would have been equally evident that this game had a crowd-pulling potential that would exceed any of our or provincial grounds as well.

The equation seems fairly straightforward. Bill this as a game for Headquarters. I have

always been of the belief that we should be about the business of promoting our games to the highest profile at every opportunity. Indeed our province has been a market leader in this capacity. All the more surprising, and disappointing, therefore that this opportunity has been spurned. Again this is no reflection on St Tiernach's Park as we very much enjoy playing there too, as indeed we do at our other provincial ground, Casement Park.

However, what a boost it could have been for Gaelic Games in the province if for the first time in our history we had a first round game that could generate enough interest to necessitate hosting it in Croke Park.

The positive impact of such an event on the GAA in both counties, the province of Ulster and the Championship in general would have been immense.

Additionally, as I have already aired through this publication and other media outlets, the

opportunity to play at, or be part of an occasion in Croke Park, should always be seized.

For those who are familiar with the surroundings, it's another chance to savour something great, and for those new to the scene, an invaluable insight to what might be. It is also a glorious opportunity for families to embrace the experience together in comfort and something that would not be possible if their team was lucky enough to be there later in the summer.



IT has been brought to my attention that selective sentencing is acceptable with both the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) and the Central Hearings Committee (CHC). But, despite all the recent utterances of a fair system applying, Tommy McGuigan's incident being the only one meriting review since February 14, determines that is simply not the case.

I have alluded to the phenomenon which we have come to know as 'trial by television' and this is definitely a subject for a much more

in-depth consideration.

More about this next week.

Jesus. almost an entire article that i am impressed with.

Quote from: Minder on April 10, 2009, 09:43:26 AM

I have alluded to the phenomenon which we have come to know as 'trial by television' and this is definitely a subject for a much more

in-depth consideration.

More about this next week.

Great  ::)

I have to say I completely disagree with mickey Harte, the 1st round of an Ulster Championship tie would not attract a crowd that will well exceed the capacity of Clones.  Look at the replay of the Ulster Final that was played there, it was embarrassing. I see his point with regards to giving players the opportunity to play at Croker, which would be a great experience.  But to play in front of a reduced crowd at HQ may be the equivilent to getting a trip to Australia only to find out you have to go by boat.

Keep it in Clones, a packed house, mighty atmosphere and (hopefully) a cracking game.

EDIT: So as I don't appear to be MH-basing, I did like what he had to say in the first part of the article.  He does talk some sense at times.

Mickey talks complete sense there in his piece about the rules. Spot on, I'd say, and a bit surprising because I'd have had the prejudice that the new rules would have suited Tyrone more than most.

Tyrone and Armagh have had plenty of opportunities to play at Croke Park. I know that not the only case for CP, but it's a poor argument in itself.

Quote from: SidelineKick on April 10, 2009, 10:18:02 AM

Quote from: Minder on April 10, 2009, 09:43:26 AM

I have alluded to the phenomenon which we have come to know as 'trial by television' and this is definitely a subject for a much more

in-depth consideration.

More about this next week.

Great  ::)

I have to say I completely disagree with mickey Harte, the 1st round of an Ulster Championship tie would not attract a crowd that will well exceed the capacity of Clones.  Look at the replay of the Ulster Final that was played there, it was embarrassing. I see his point with regards to giving players the opportunity to play at Croker, which would be a great experience.  But to play in front of a reduced crowd at HQ may be the equivilent to getting a trip to Australia only to find out you have to go by boat.

Keep it in Clones, a packed house, mighty atmosphere and (hopefully) a cracking game.

EDIT: So as I don't appear to be MH-basing, I did like what he had to say in the first part of the article.  He does talk some sense at times.

That replay should never have been held at Croke Park on a Saturday evening. Saturdays are not a great day for people never mind bringing Tyrone and Armagh to Dublin just a week or 2 after they had met there. There was still 30,000 there that day though which wasnt bad. There was over 60,000 at the other 2 meetings between Tyrone and Armagh on Sundays that year. This time round you have the clash of the Ulster and All Ireland Champions which if promoted right would have attracted a large crowd to Croke Park.

Valid enough TD, but do you honestly think the same crowd could be attracted for a first round tie?  The others were an Ulster Final which they thought was going to be the day their team would be crowned Ulster Champions (although it ended a draw) and the other was an AI Semi, which speaks for itself.

Agree with MH re new rules but he is talking complete bollocks in regards to Tyrone v Armagh in Crokers.

If it is a home game Tyrone should have the choice of playing it at Healy park or a provincal ground like Clones but the decision shouldn't be forced upon them by the Ulster Council. Croke Park realistically would lucky to be over half full for this tie.

Quote from: Minder on April 10, 2009, 09:43:26 AM
Time to take positive from negative rules experiment Mickey Harte
By Mickey Harte
10/04/09

It's now a well accepted fact that you get more of what you look for.

If you like a new model of a motorcar and harbour notions of buying one, isn't it amazing just how many of them you see on your daily journey to work?

Has the number of such vehicles currently on the road increased dramatically?

Absolutely not. However, since your mind is drawn towards them, they seem more prolific.

Mickey talks some bollocks. Before I ventured out today I said to myself wouldn't it be great to see more women walking about the streets with their baps out. Went out for a drive and the devil a bit of it.

QuoteBefore I ventured out today I said to myself wouldn't it be great to see more women walking about the streets with their baps out.

On a Good Friday, O'Neill!

Clones seems a reasonable venue for this game, a full house at the home of Ulster GAA.

Perhaps MH's vision of global Gaelic Games isn't that far fetched at all, from today's Irish News...

French side puts some Gallic in Gaelic football
By Claire Simpson

IT was more a case of Gallic than Gaelic football when an all-French side lined out for a tournament in Co Derry.

The club from Liffre, in the Brittany region of north-west France, claim they are the first team with no native English speakers or Irish links to play a football match in Ireland. Nine players have travelled to see the GAA in its native habitat and to take part in seven-a-side matches in Newbridge. Danny Stewart from Ballycastle, who helped organise the trip, said although they did not win the mini-tournament against Newbridge GAC and Errigal Ciaran of Co Tyrone, some of their opponents were shocked by the skill of the French players.

"They don't have any Gaelic pitches so they have to play on rugby pitches in France," he said. "They have to customise the goalposts and because the pitches are smaller it's only 13-a-side." Mr Stewart said Brittany's Celtic culture and the growing availability of Gaelic games on French television has helped popularise the sport.

Brittany now boasts six clubs and up to 80 school teams, who played their first tournament in April. "It has just mushroomed," Mr Stewart said. "What I would like to see is a Brittany county team coming over and winning the All-Ireland."

Think thats great! Fair play to them! Maybe more chance of Brittany winning the AI than Derry in the coming years  :'(

How did that all originate? A teacher from here working over there or something?

Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2009, 07:18:24 PM
How did that all originate? A teacher from here working over there or something?

Tax Exiles?

Quote from: Maguire01 on April 10, 2009, 07:18:24 PM
How did that all originate? A teacher from here working over there or something?

Asterisk started it.

Good man Mickey, let Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil, and Keep an eye on Tyrone have it!  ;)

Variables mean CCCC is not a level playing field
17/04/09

THIS week I would like to address the major part of this column to the chairman of the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC).

Indeed, I would extend the invitation to the outgoing president Nickey Brennan to feel free to clarify without equivocation exactly what criterion has been used with regard to the review of video footage throughout the recent Allianz National Football and Hurling Leagues. I made an attempt to elicit this information from the chairman of the CCCC at the recent hearing afforded Tommy McGuigan by the Central Hearings Committee (CHC). Unfortunately I was told, despite the fact that the answer was significant to Tommy's defence, that they (the CHC or the CCCC) didn't have to answer such questions.

I would have anticipated that, regardless of whether or not the bodies involved felt they didn't have to give an answer, out of common courtesy, and confidence in their own diligent and indiscriminate method of review, they would have proffered one. Despite the vociferous endorsement given recently by the outgoing President of Cumann Luthchleas Gael, a fair and equitable implementation of this type of intervention is an impossibility. The fact that not every game is televised is the first major variable which casts doubt over the fairness of the system.

Players from higher profile teams attracting more coverage will be more likely to have incidents revisited. The nature and degree of attention given to particular footage is invariably determined by different people from programme producers to studio presenters or guest analysts. Variables, variables, variables. Additionally, even then, not all such material highlighted by these unofficial GAA interpreters is followed up.

Again, that is why I am asking the question: 'what criterion is used to initiate a case based on video evidence?' Nickey Brennan has been quoted as saying "I think the policy that we have adopted on that is fair and reasonable" No it isn't. I have seen several incidents in a number of games, some of which have been highlighted by TV analysts, that have never been addressed by the CCCC. It's ironical that in the current climate where the experimental rules task force have been minutely digesting the video tapes to support their own proposals, all, except two incidents, have been deemed in no need of review.

Fair and reasonable policy?

The president also linked the fact that some players have had cards rescinded by virtue of video evidence and implied that they can't avail of this facility when it's to their advantage and not expect to be taken to task when the opposite is true. It's necessary to make the distinction here that the player must, of his own volition, pursue his case to have a wrong decision overturned. No committee studies the evidence and informs him that he should seek a hearing. So it's not "swings and roundabouts" as suggested by the President, and the individual player's right to pursue an injustice against him must remain sacrosanct.

Ultimately, this is not about defending wrongdoing on the field of play, but rather seeking a level playing field in terms of dealing with indiscretions. While pronouncements of 'being fair' and 'being extremely fair to players in all of this' make for pleasant soundbites, the evidence to date does not support this stance. As I alluded to earlier, the fact that not all games are televised, all instances highlighted are not pursued and, to date, no-one has clearly and unequivocally declared the criterion used in deeming occurrences worthy of review determines that this CCCC process can not be fair and reasonable.

New rules advocates light on evidence

AS Annual Congress looms ever closer, the experimental rules issue is being given the full treatment from the rules task force personnel.

I suggested last week that the real (only) value of these new rules was that it generated a debate and created a greater awareness of the playing rules. For that reason Pat Daly, Liam O'Neill and their task force are to be commended for their efforts. However, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and, after seven rounds of games in all four divisions of the Allianz Football League (I will leave the hurlers to speak for themselves), the evidence does not support the soundbites emanating from those whose desire it is to see them implemented.

On Sunday Sport last weekend, Liam O'Neill moved to convince us that these new rules generated less fouls, more scores, more excitement and consistency in refereeing. He intimated that League scores were "up hugely". A table of average scores relating to 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 used in a piece by Marty Morrissey was supposed to be an endorsement of this huge increase.

The facts of the matter are, as noted by Anthony Tohill on the programme, that there was a greater increase between 2006 and 2007 (0.61) and 2007 and 2008 (0.43) than between 2008 and 2009 where the increase was just (0.31). Though my mathematics may not be of the highest standard, I have figured that as a 1.12 per cent increase in this year's scoring averages – hardly the stuff of vindicating sweeping rules changes or qualifying for being "up hugely".

Furthermore, since the idea of more excitement is a very subjective matter, I would have difficulty accepting this assertion as being quantifiable in the current season. When questioned by Michael Lyster about the fact that head high tackles were always a bad offence, Liam O'Neill asserted that this was a 'new foul' and didn't exist in the 1970s and '80s. Ask Mickey Ned O'Sullivan if such a foul existed in the '70s.

The final, and perhaps most crucial, aspect of his pro-new rules sentiment was that they would lead to greater consistency in refereeing. This has most definitely not been the case. Despite the attention given to studying video footage with a total focus on this aspect of refereeing, the evidence does not support this claim of greater consistency.

These men are to be commended for their hard work and the rules awareness generated as a result of their efforts. That said, a consistent application of the existing rules will satisfy us all.

Please God, Congress will agree that the rules are sound and the drive for consistency is the real challenge for everyone involved.

Goodbye, good luck

WHILE I wouldn't agree with the outgoing President Nickey Brennan's view on some issues – as evidenced elsewhere in this column – I would like to wish him well as he leaves this ever more demanding office.

Nickey has made numerous visits to our province, and my own county in particular, since his inauguration as President and he was most welcome on every occasion. No doubt, his energy and passion for the GAA will be put to good use in other roles within the Association in the years to come.

Let the vultures begin to circle

Have to agree with the Beard on this one. Yer man O'Neill really sickened me on Sunday Sport, with his suggestion that the new rules produced more scores and made the games more exciting. He honestly seemed to believe his own guff that these new rules were what the ordinary punter wanted. Fair enough, we need to address the high tackles, body checking etc, but I feel the major point being missed here is that the existing rules can accomplish this, it is in the application of rules where the current system is lacking. Anyway rant over, fair play to Mickey for taking this stance speaking out in his column, but I really fear that we're going to see them rail-roaded through congress ths weekend..

surely the point to the new rules, was to reduce  dangerous and negative illegal play in the game, not to increase the amount of scores.
If thats what we want, why don we just make the goals 20 foot wider and be done with it!

Is Gaelic football a better game than it was 25 years ago, probably, will it be better in 5 no. 

I agree with him about the farcical new rules. I've seen the stats done out in a couple of papers in the last few weeks and the facts are that scores are up somewhere between 1 and 2% - roughly 0.3 - 0.6 points per game. Anyone using the line that the new rules have been resulting in higher scoring games is full of shit.

QuoteUltimately, this is not about defending wrongdoing on the field of play,

:D :D :D :D :D :D

Comedy and whinging together at last.

Cominging?

Whimedy?

Surely players should ultimately have the final say on these rules - was there not a recent vote taken which highlighted that the majority of inter-county players were against the new rules or was this just in relation to hurling? 

These constant attempts to influence referees as well as  the disciplinary procedures of the GAA by a current manager are tantamount to cheating in my view. Very distasteful behavior by Harte. That saintly act of his hides a very, very cynical man.

Anyone notice Harte is very forthcomign about tTrone getting caught behaving badly, he's quick to criticise ahny repercussions of the act, not so keen talking about the actual incident. I have no interest in his column it should be called Mickey's Harte Bleeds' for he is never done gurning.

Didnt wanta start a new thread for this but its realated to the irish news.
did anyone elese read the piece i Benny Tierney (i think) in the Irish News yday 'county players should get a life'.

Think it was a great piece. He sums up players attitutes to training and post training meetings brilliantly IMO. 'Players rate training on how much football they played and if they are home in time to see the champions league highlights'.

Anyone got a link to Tierney's piece?

Here you go fb:

Time for county players to get a life again
The Last Line
With Benny Tierney
29/04/09

IT was with some interest that I read Martin McElkennon's comments last week about how they have freshened up their approach in the Monaghan squad this year by shortening training sessions and having fewer team meetings. While it did not reap any dividends at the weekend, it is a subject that maybe most managers need to address or at least be aware of.

Many years ago, as a county novice, you would head off to your training from Belfast, train to the best of your ability (some more than others), grab a pint of milk on the way out of the training ground, stop at a filling station for the requisite Mars bar and Lucozade and still have time to go to the Bot for a good old students' night out.

As time progressed, and as I was nearing the end of my career, training sessions had increased dramatically, particularly the length of them. Food was now supplied after training, there were physio appointments and at least once a week, after the food, a meeting would take place with maybe a DVD to show your opponents' strengths and weaknesses in an attempt to better your preparation for the forthcoming match.

These post-training meetings and video presentations have become the bane of most players' lives. If I was to put it quite simply, managers gauge the success of a training session as to the players' effort levels and how much information they have gained during their meetings, while the players' success criteria as to how well a training session went is how much football they got and whether they are home in time for Match Of The Day 2 or the Champions League highlights.

Obviously not all players are like this and I fully recognise that the McGeeneys, McGranes and McNultys of this world would train until sunset the next day if they got the chance. However, the majority of players, after working all day and heading straight to training, are at their most content part of the day when their car is pulling into their drive at home.

When I was part of the backroom team under Joe Kernan, one of my responsibilities was putting together the short video and DVD presentations to be shown after training. As I would pull into Callanbridge on a regular basis, John McEntee (and numerous others) would approach the car and ask "Well Benny, is there a DVD tonight?" Once a week I would reply "Yes John." After a few seconds to digest his utter disappointment, he would ask "how long?"

"It's a short one tonight big man, only six minutes," I would reply.

John would wander off dejected muttering: "still too effing long."

Basically the difference between playing and being a manager is immense. Players live for the game, the match , the chance to show why they are part of a county panel. Training is put up with as a necessity, but they can turn off and revert to their normal lives on a regular basis. DVD presentations are alright as long as they are in them on a regular basis and don't take too long.

Managers, on the other hand, never turn off, they are constantly on the look-out for that little initiative or nuance that could motivate and cajole their troops into wanting to become better and potential champions.

I remember calling in on big Joe one day as he was sitting watching a match with his notebook beside him at home telling me that his notebook was his constant companion as he consistently wrote down ideas and possible motivating pointers for that week. Ultimately the player is responsible for himself, both mentally and physically, his own preparation and his mindset, while the manager is responsible for 30 plus people with gargantuan egos who all think they should be playing, keeping them interested and motivated and, most importantly, happy. Joe made no secret of the fact that, after he retired, he found it difficult in the first four months to revert to the normality of everyday life without the intensity and pressure associated with management. In the last two decades, the demands on both managers and players has increased ten-fold, especially regarding how much time they now spend at training and meetings.

While managing and playing for your county is the greatest honour in our game, people still need time to live their lives outside of football. That is why I, for one, was glad to hear that some county teams are now beginning to recognise this and address the life/football imbalance.

Logie will be missed

MUCH has been made of the rapidly diminishing air-time our games have received on the BBC and UTV over the last few years. I suppose it's ironic that, in the last decade, when Ulster teams have come to the fore in Gaelic Games moreso than ever, we have seen a reduction, apparently due to costing, on our provincial channels. Last week, we heard that UTV's Adrian Logan will no longer be part of their sports team after many years of service. Logie, over the years, has, with his bubbly personality and obvious passion for our games, become synonymous with Gaelic coverage in Ulster and Ireland, making sure that our games receive appropriate coverage equating to its popularity throughout our province.

Now with his absence, I feel that this is an ominous sign that Gaelic football, hurling and camogie will receive even less media coverage. I also have no doubts that Logie's obvious talents (even though he is from Tyrone) will be snapped up by other media sources looking for quality and character.

HAVING watched the four National League finals at the weekend, I have to say I was not-overly excited with much of the pedestrian fare on offer. Ironically, it was the Division Four final which provided the most entertaining and open football.

While the four Ulster teams lost and will feel some disappointment, Damian Cassidy is totally correct in his assertion that these results will quickly be forgotten about as the real assessment begins in three weeks. Down's loss to Tipperary will be totally erased should Ross Carr's men beat Fermanagh in the preliminary round. Darren O'Sullivan (pictured) lifted the National League trophy on Sunday nearly apologetically, knowing that if this is the only trophy he lifts this year, then Kerry football will be practically in a state of crisis.

Cheers FoSB

Interesting article.

Interesting indeed.

I don't wanna start another Tyrone v Armagh slagging match but would many of ye admit that the Armagh squad always seem to take their football much too serious ALL the time. Remember reading in Harte's book Knocking down Heaven's door that they all met at some event before the final in 2003 and that the focus on the Armagh players faces was such that no-one would dare smile or risk having a laugh in case they were seen as enjoying themselves too much before a big game.

Would any of ye concur with this point? I was wondering about this when reading Benny's article.

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 30, 2009, 02:35:13 PM
Interesting indeed.

I don't wanna start another Tyrone v Armagh slagging match but would many of ye admit that the Armagh squad always seem to take their football much too serious ALL the time. Remember reading in Harte's book Knocking down Heaven's door that they all met at some event before the final in 2003 and that the focus on the Armagh players faces was such that no-one would dare smile or risk having a laugh in case they were seen as enjoying themselves too much before a big game.

Would any of ye concur with this point? I was wondering about this when reading Benny's article.

Think that was at the Irish News All Star awards. The story was that they turned up together looking very serious, didnt talk to anyone outside their group and left early.

Imagine that. If Donegal had been there they would have invited everyone off to the pub for a sociable session.

Quote from: Tyrone Dreamer on April 30, 2009, 06:28:34 PM

Quote from: Fuzzman on April 30, 2009, 02:35:13 PM
Interesting indeed.

I don't wanna start another Tyrone v Armagh slagging match but would many of ye admit that the Armagh squad always seem to take their football much too serious ALL the time. Remember reading in Harte's book Knocking down Heaven's door that they all met at some event before the final in 2003 and that the focus on the Armagh players faces was such that no-one would dare smile or risk having a laugh in case they were seen as enjoying themselves too much before a big game.

Would any of ye concur with this point? I was wondering about this when reading Benny's article.

Think that was at the Irish News All Star awards. The story was that they turned up together looking very serious, didnt talk to anyone outside their group and left early.

It was at the Irish News Do. Was there myself. Armagh ones came in late and left as soon as the event was over. Whereas the Tyrone boys were there from early on and had a great night it appeared. ( Had a great day a couple of weeks later)

Reading Benny's blog, it's hard to know whether less is more or more is less.

Anyone got today's Harte attack?

Here you go Fuzz...

Rules reaction has bordered on hysteria
Mickey Harte

Reaction from certain quarters with regard to the failure of the proposed experimental rules at congress is bordering on the hysterical.

Emotive outbursts from several media personnel allied to the mis-representative views enunciated by the chairman of the Rules Task Force, Liam O'Neill have revealed people in these quarters as selective democrats. You could be forgiven for thinking that the two-thirds majority rule was secretly and deceptively foisted upon the delegates at Congress, such is the furore over the majority vote losing the decision.

Everyone knew that a simple majority would not suffice. Spurious suggestions were made in the media that somehow team managers were holding the games to ransom. It was also implied by one commentator that inter-county players were equally culpable in what were erroneously described as retaining the nastier components of the sport. Ironically this blinkered view was supported by suggesting that it was a media campaign launched by team managers and county players that prevented the rules from being accepted. So, those who were for the rule changes had no media access?

This same contributor said it was not difficult to understand why managers want the present system to remain as they want to be able to break the rules. If that wasn't enough to convince you who the bad guys were in this scenario, the children were introduced. Using such graphic and emotive language as "beheading" in an U14 match as a natural result of the failure of these rules to be implemented was a further attempt to demonise anyone opposed to them. It is important to remember that this was not a vote to abandon all the rules of gaelic games. There are already sufficient sanctions within the referee's repertoire to deal with all things of an unsavoury nature. Indeed, in recent times interference with an opponent after he plays the ball was particularly highlighted as a yellow card offence.

The referee is at liberty to determine if a late challenge (foul) on a player as he plays the ball necessitates an equal sanction. If match officials choose to ignore such actions, should the blame be laid at the manager's door? This power of the manager theme was further endorsed by Liam O'Neill where he afforded those of us in that position much more influence than we have noticed to date.

How does that argument square with the fact that Jack O'Connor (Kerry), Ross Carr (Down) and Damien Cassidy (Derry) were opposed to the changes, yet their counties voted to retain them? If my influence was as strong as he suggests in administrative circles, Ulster Championship match against Armagh would be in Croke Park. Furthermore we are told by the same administrator that we should stick to managing and let those charged with administrating get on with the job. I would totally agree with him on this point, and would respectfully suggest that no current county manager that I am aware of cast a vote on the floor of Congress. Additionally, I do hope that this dictum about what we as managers should be about doesn't extend to not allowing us to have an opinion –  especially one acutely relevant to the task we are entrusted with.

The attempts to ostracise those opposed to the changes received a further boost in the Sunday papers where one contributer refuted the suggestion that the reforms were backed by massive PR campaign. In fact, he suggested that O'Neill and Daly merely supplied some positive statistics and were simply too honest. He went on to bemoan the disadvantaged position the Task Force leaders were in with the managers coming out every week and voicing dismay. (Did it not occur to him that most managers cannot come out every week and express an opinion about anything unless they are invited to do so by some of his fellow journalists?).

As highlighted by former All-Ireland final referee Paddy Collins, a man with high-ranking Leinster Council Official experience, you can be opposed to the experimental rules and be against cynicism in our games. In the aftermath of this defeat for the proposed rules changes, there was widespread reference to the lack of democracy within the GAA voting structures. As I alluded to earlier, was anyone unaware of this fact?

This was no rabbit pulled out of the hat by the pro-status quo people.

So let's deal with the stark facts and detach ourselves from extremism – journalistic and otherwise – and accept that the rules are fine, and it is consistent interpretation and application remains a challenge.

Real life savers on the Lough

Last Saturday morning, Brendan and Brigid McAnallen continued the positive and invaluable work of the Cormac Trust when they visited the Lough Neagh Rescue Station at Ardboe.

They were joined there by the lifeboat crew from Kinnego, where Brendan and Brigid handed over defibrillators to assist with their life-saving capacity at both stations and on their rescue boats on the Lough. Trevor McKee, chairman of Lough Neagh Rescue, expressed his deepest gratitude to the to the McAnallen family and the Cormac Trust for their most generous gesture. He went on to say that this equipment would be vital not only to the lifeboat service, but also to the communities surrounding the station at the Battery harbour, Ardboe and Kinnego marina in Lurgan. He was pleased to relate that the lifeboat crews have been trained in the correct use of the defibrillators and having them on board the boats at all times would enhance their life-saving capabilities at the scene of incidents on the Lough and its tributary waters.

Myself, Chris Lawn and current Loughshore players Brian McGuigan and PJ Quinn were given a tour of the station and a scary cruise of the Lough. It was an experience which opened our eyes to the hidden dangers of the Lough and the skill and commitment of the rescue volunteers. The Kinnego crew, complete with their orange Armagh life jackets, proceeded to initiate the rivalry due for completion on May 31 when they set about soaking the Tyrone lads before they returned to shore.

These life-savers, who are all volunteers, deserve immense credit for the excellent service they provide and all of us should be conscious of supporting their fund raising efforts in the future.

Incidentally, in the past year these men have attended 28 call outs and brought 75 people to safety.

Jesus. 2 well articulated and reasoned articles in a row from harte that i agree with. i'm off to tell the king that the sky is falling in.

He makes good points again but as some forecasted when he took over this role, will all this have a negative impact on Tyrone.

He certainly has rubbed a few up the wrong way in the GAA & it will be interesting to see come championship time will Refs & the southern media be a little biased in their judgements of Tyrone & Mr Harte. If there are any bad tackles over the summer will the CCCC take a sterner view than normal.

Its all fine and dandy having your say on such a public medium, even if he does often speak the truth but would it not be better to keep a low profile and not be giving ammunition for those with scores to settle.

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 01, 2009, 02:44:10 PM
He makes good points again but as some forecasted when he took over this role, will all this have a negative impact on Tyrone.

He certainly has rubbed a few up the wrong way in the GAA & it will be interesting to see come championship time will Refs & the southern media be a little biased in their judgements of Tyrone & Mr Harte. If there are any bad tackles over the summer will the CCCC take a sterner view than normal.

Its all fine and dandy having your say on such a public medium, even if he does often speak the truth but would it not be better to keep a low profile and not be giving ammunition for those with scores to settle.

It depends on how high a profile you seek.

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 01, 2009, 02:44:10 PM
He makes good points again but as some forecasted when he took over this role, will all this have a negative impact on Tyrone.

He certainly has rubbed a few up the wrong way in the GAA & it will be interesting to see come championship time will Refs & the southern media be a little biased in their judgements of Tyrone & Mr Harte. If there are any bad tackles over the summer will the CCCC take a sterner view than normal.

Its all fine and dandy having your say on such a public medium, even if he does often speak the truth but would it not be better to keep a low profile and not be giving ammunition for those with scores to settle.

Could it get any worse? :-\

Read the article again. It is not a reasoned analysis of the rule changes or their impact. All it says is that the rules are fine, referees and the disciplinary processes aren't.

Most of the article is spent protesting that he and other managers have little influence on decision making. It is hard to know is he moaning about this lack of influence or is upset that people think he does have influence but actually doesn't.

Everything above this line is rubbish and shouldn't have appeared in the article: "So let's deal with the stark facts and detach ourselves from extremism – journalistic and otherwise – and accept that the rules are fine, and it is consistent interpretation and application remains a challenge."

That would have been a good starting point and it would have been interesting to hear his views on that. Instead he spent the whole article, as seems to be his style, assuming the role of victim to some Gaa official/southern media/refereeing attacker. It is all very tiresome when it could be so much better.

Quote& the southern media be a little biased

I think what you meant to say, surely, was will the southern media (who are a lot more even handed than nordie commentators) respond to a concerted propaganda campaign by Harte to gain advantage for his team ?

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 01, 2009, 08:17:55 PM

Quote& the southern media be a little biased

I think what you meant to say, surely, was will the southern media (who are a lot more even handed than nordie commentators) respond to a concerted propaganda campaign by Harte to gain advantage for his team ?

Mmmmm you'd never see a Kerryman in the media about anything.  :D :D

no current kerry manager has stooped to Hartes tactics of undermining referees and the disciplinary procedures week in, week out. Its a disgrace. The GAA should step in and fine him for bringing the game into disrepute.

A GAA player or manager cannot be fined. You're watching too much soccer.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 02, 2009, 03:43:42 AM
no current kerry manager has stooped to Hartes tactics of undermining referees and the disciplinary procedures week in, week out. Its a disgrace. The GAA should step in and fine him for bringing the game into disrepute.

How many do you have?

Not enough to count the subs they use

Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2009, 08:11:28 PM
Read the article again. It is not a reasoned analysis of the rule changes or their impact. All it says is that the rules are fine, referees and the disciplinary processes aren't.

Most of the article is spent protesting that he and other managers have little influence on decision making. It is hard to know is he moaning about this lack of influence or is upset that people think he does have influence but actually doesn't.

Everything above this line is rubbish and shouldn't have appeared in the article: "So let's deal with the stark facts and detach ourselves from extremism – journalistic and otherwise – and accept that the rules are fine, and it is consistent interpretation and application remains a challenge."

That would have been a good starting point and it would have been interesting to hear his views on that. Instead he spent the whole article, as seems to be his style, assuming the role of victim to some Gaa official/southern media/refereeing attacker. It is all very tiresome when it could be so much better.

muppet, you post therefore you are  ;)

Don't read or even reread the fecking thing FFS; jeez talk about going out of your way to be offended!

Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2009, 08:11:28 PM
It is not a reasoned analysis of the rule changes or their impact

You, possibly due to interference of some obvious emotional issues or just plain old dumbfoolery,
are chronically incapable of comprehending even the simple basics of the written word.

First is , article theme, as outlined in the headline and the opening line.

Quotethe rules are fine, and it is consistent interpretation and application remains a challenge.......That would have been a good starting point and it would have been interesting to hear his views on that.

I'm sure MH has already given vent to his views on the new rules in his articles before the Convention.
That argument has been won.
Some people move on to new debates.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on May 02, 2009, 01:48:27 PM

Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2009, 08:11:28 PM
Read the article again. It is not a reasoned analysis of the rule changes or their impact. All it says is that the rules are fine, referees and the disciplinary processes aren't.

Most of the article is spent protesting that he and other managers have little influence on decision making. It is hard to know is he moaning about this lack of influence or is upset that people think he does have influence but actually doesn't.

Everything above this line is rubbish and shouldn't have appeared in the article: "So let's deal with the stark facts and detach ourselves from extremism – journalistic and otherwise – and accept that the rules are fine, and it is consistent interpretation and application remains a challenge."

That would have been a good starting point and it would have been interesting to hear his views on that. Instead he spent the whole article, as seems to be his style, assuming the role of victim to some Gaa official/southern media/refereeing attacker. It is all very tiresome when it could be so much better.

muppet, you post therefore you are  ;)

Don't read or even reread the fecking thing FFS; jeez talk about going out of your way to be offended!

I'm not offended, it's just tiresome when it could be interesting.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 02, 2009, 03:43:42 AM
no current kerry manager has stooped to Hartes tactics of undermining referees and the disciplinary procedures week in, week out. Its a disgrace. The GAA should step in and fine him for bringing the game into disrepute.

I believe that once again sir, you are talking complete bollix.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2009/04/23/story90035.asp

"Do they want fierce high-scoring, free-flowing games?" Kerry chief Jack O'Connor wondered.

"Rugby is very attractive at the moment and a lot of it comes from the physicality of it. I am not advocating foul play high up or low down, why should I with the players like the Gooch and those fellows!

"But, I think you have to retain a certain amount of physicality in Gaelic football because if you don't, it will be much less a product.

"I know for a fact that our players who got 'those yellow cards' wouldn't tackle for love nor money. We do stats on tackling and one of these fellows only got in one tackle in the following game — he was scared that if he went near a man, he'd get sent off."

That was an interview. Theres a big difference between that and a weekly column or are you too stupid to tell.

Face facts. Harte never shuts his trap and his constant harping on about this and that is becoming very tiresome. Mickey harte needs to realize that we had a great association long before he came along and we will have a great association long after he is gone. The association is bigger than one mouthy manager and its about time this media-obsessed, egocentric johhny come lately was appraised of that fact.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 03, 2009, 08:18:08 PM
The association is bigger than one mouthy manager and its about time this media-obsessed, egocentric johhny come lately was appraised of that fact.

Do you mean apprised?  :P

Perhaps it's time you apprised yourself of the meaning of appraise.

Being fully apprised of your anal musings my honest appraisal is that they are worthless.

                                                         

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 03, 2009, 08:18:08 PM
That was an interview. Theres a big difference between that and a weekly column or are you too stupid to tell.

Face facts. Harte never shuts his trap and his constant harping on about this and that is becoming very tiresome. Mickey harte needs to realize that we had a great association long before he came along and we will have a great association long after he is gone. The association is bigger than one mouthy manager and its about time this media-obsessed, egocentric johhny come lately was appraised of that fact.

mmmm yes of course.

"The yellow card effectively takes the tackle out of the game as a player will not tackle a fellow that is running at him any more.

"It's as simple as that, they are taking the physicality out of the game," O'Connor added.

http://www.the-kingdom.ie/news/story/?trs=mhaukfsngb

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 03, 2009, 10:25:12 PM
Being fully apprised of your anal musings my honest appraisal is that they are worthless.                                                    

The only thing more predictable than MH's weekly column Sheehy, is your weekly-plus whinge and moan about it. Get a life (and a dictionary).

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 03, 2009, 08:18:08 PM
That was an interview. Theres a big difference between that and a weekly column or are you too stupid to tell.

Face facts. Harte never shuts his trap and his constant harping on about this and that is becoming very tiresome. Mickey harte needs to realize that we had a great association long before he came along and we will have a great association long after he is gone. The association is bigger than one mouthy manager and its about time this media-obsessed, egocentric johhny come lately was appraised of that fact.

Pot-kettle-black  ;)

Whether you agree with him or not, he is always quite rational and his articles are well thought out - unlike some whose articles are simply designed to provoke.

I note a damning appraisal of Mickey Harte's teams in Sunday's Tribune from Pete McGrath in the gentlemanly way that Pete conducts himself. Others should take note.

Quote
In many ways McGrath was a forerunner to Mickey Harte – an articulate, spiritual, thoughtful, dignified man – but as McGrath promptly notes, "Mickey would have different philosophies to me."

"It's a lot to do with where you come from and what you've been brought up with. Down football has traditionally been about flair and attacking football. You still expect your defenders to defend but in an open honest way, to get to the ball first and to tackle and pressurise without getting the whole team behind the ball and adopting tactics that might border on the cynical. That has never been the Down way and when you've had the success we've achieved playing with style and expression, I still think that ultimately will win out."

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 05, 2009, 11:50:17 AM
I note a damning appraisal of Mickey Harte's teams in Sunday's Tribune from Pete McGrath in the gentlemanly way that Pete conducts himself. Others should take note.

Quote
In many ways McGrath was a forerunner to Mickey Harte – an articulate, spiritual, thoughtful, dignified man – but as McGrath promptly notes, "Mickey would have different philosophies to me."

"It's a lot to do with where you come from and what you've been brought up with. Down football has traditionally been about flair and attacking football. You still expect your defenders to defend but in an open honest way, to get to the ball first and to tackle and pressurise without getting the whole team behind the ball and adopting tactics that might border on the cynical. That has never been the Down way and when you've had the success we've achieved playing with style and expression, I still think that ultimately will win out."

Isnt that wonderful.

Maybe if they had adopted Mr Hartes techniques and abandoned the self appointed royalty status of Ulster football, a panel of 25 young men from the Mourne county would be sitting this morning with all ireland  under 21 medals.

But then again wasnt it better to play with style and expression, the Down way, and lose !

Style and expression indeed.
I do long for the old days when Tyrone lined out a "Small" talented team with pure footballers and let other coaches use the tactic stop Tyrone playing their usual game & we'll be fine

Can any of ye Statto lads publish Tyrone's scores in the years we've won the AI.
Was there loads of low scoring negative football played?

I'd happily give up two of our AI's if we can just get back to being an attractive (No not that way), high scoring, exciting team to watch again.

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 05, 2009, 11:50:17 AM
I note a damning appraisal of Mickey Harte's teams in Sunday's Tribune from Pete McGrath in the gentlemanly way that Pete conducts himself. Others should take note.

Quote
In many ways McGrath was a forerunner to Mickey Harte – an articulate, spiritual, thoughtful, dignified man – but as McGrath promptly notes, "Mickey would have different philosophies to me."

"It's a lot to do with where you come from and what you've been brought up with. Down football has traditionally been about flair and attacking football. You still expect your defenders to defend but in an open honest way, to get to the ball first and to tackle and pressurise without getting the whole team behind the ball and adopting tactics that might border on the cynical. That has never been the Down way and when you've had the success we've achieved playing with style and expression, I still think that ultimately will win out."

Pete certainly talking a fair smattering of shite there.

Well said Pete McGrath. Thank god there are some Gaels in Ulster who want to see Gaelic football played properly.

At least one person in Ulster is not  kow-towing to "Saint" Mickey and his church of cynicism. 

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 05, 2009, 09:01:12 PM
Well said Pete McGrath. Thank god there are some Gaels in Ulster who want to see Gaelic football played properly.

At least one person in Ulster is not  kow-towing to "Saint" Mickey and his church of cynicism. 

Pete lost  ::) and Mickey wouldn't send a team out to stand aside and let Cork run through for a goal like that as Mayo and Cork do with Kerry in senior finals.   

Some Kerry people still complain about the tactics Down used in the '68 All-Ireland Final ! At a Q&A session a couple of years ago, Ross Carr said that the forwards on the Down teams he played on were expected to track back and do a share of defensive duties!
On the substantive point of the topic,I have to say that I have found Mickey's column very disappointing.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 05, 2009, 09:01:12 PM
Well said Pete McGrath. Thank god there are some Gaels in Ulster who want to see Gaelic football played properly.

At least one person in Ulster is not  kow-towing to "Saint" Mickey and his church of cynicism. 

I tell you what if I had three celtic crosses in my back pocket I wouldn't care if I put 15 men on the goal line.

The 2nd half in Portlaoise yest had a crowded midfield and a madness from Down only seemingly associated from Ulster teams.

The first half was the purist side yet Down lost midfield & more all the way, but anyone could see from the stands the HARTE-mindest coming in in the 2nd half. Maybe the team played the 2nd half regardless of the way McGrath had instructed it?

The wind wasn't a major factor as it was sideways towards the apartments in PL.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 05, 2009, 09:01:12 PM
Well said Pete McGrath. Thank god there are some Gaels in Ulster who want to see Gaelic football played properly.

At least one person in Ulster is not  kow-towing to "Saint" Mickey and his church of cynicism. 

Sounds like you should give Pete a run at the Kerry job. O'Connor has been worshiping at the church of Mickey for some time now.

QuoteSounds like you should give Pete a run at the Kerry job.

lets not lose the run of ourselves now.......
No Ulsterman would ever be fit to manage a Kerry team (it is sacrilegious to to even mention it) .........however, McGrath would come a lot closer than most I suppose.

... right enough considering Pat O'Shea couldn't manage them last year...

I see Micky has taken a "dig" at Pete McGrath today. ;D

Can someone post the article  ?

Sin é é:

Main players need to reach consensus on rules debate
Mickey Harte

THE fact that so many column inches have been devoted to rules and referees' interpretation, application or non-application of them might suggest that the issue should be consigned to recent history.

Paradoxically, the controversy and debate initiated as a result of the experimental rules can act as a catalyst for a constructive and ongoing process in search of that almost elusive trait – consistency.

In deference to Pat Daly, Liam O'Neill and the Rules Task Force, their objective was to clarify exactly what should happen in the event of indiscretions, with four distinct outcomes. In theory this consisted of a tick, a black book, a yellow card and a red card and appeared to be quite straightforward. In practice, the interpretation of individual referees in relation to the various categories, not only in different games, but indeed within a single game, proved problematic.

While I am not fully au fait with the exact amount of time spent by referees and administrators in relation to striving for consistency, it is fair to say that a concerted effort was made to standardise the process. As I have alluded to many times in the past, our match officials have the unenviable task of making decisions in live time, which is so different to retrospectively studying video tape and re-running incidents at a slowed down speed from a variety of angles in the comfort of a television studio. However, despite the difficulties faced and the inevitability that perfection is always beyond us, we still ought to challenge ourselves to be the best we can be, in all aspects of life.

I believe that while the intentions are honourable on behalf of all concerned, there is too little real communication between all of the people who can contribute to a more successful working solution. In my opinion, there are four distinct groupings whose co-operation is essential if we are going to make progress with this thorny issue. Firstly, there are our administrators, whose contribution often goes unheralded, yet without whom nothing would happen. Secondly, there are our players whose commitment, skill and dedication essentially ensure that we have a viable and crowd-pulling product to offer. Thirdly, our match officials, especially referees, who often inconvenience themselves for their own club and county, under much scrutiny and with limited praise, to facilitate the playing of our games. Finally, there are managers. Though a more transient group than any of the previous three, they also have key roles to play in influencing the final product.

To date, despite intermittent attempts to engage on some of these fronts, there has been no constructive and meaningful engagement between representative groups from all four strands at a single forum. Hence the 'them and us' atmosphere regularly raises its head, sometimes even leading to unhelpful sniping towards each other.

In my best efforts to be totally objective, (not an easy thing to do), I am of the opinion that who's right appears to be more important than what's right. The fact that we are returning to the status quo with regard to the rules for the Championship should not mean that the search for improvement should be sidelined. Quite the opposite is appropriate and an active forum for assessing, analysing and appreciating each other's role during this season's Championship campaign might prove much more productive rather than a win-lose confrontation at a later date.

Indeed, I would suggest that, right now, the structures should be drawn up by officials at Headquarters to bring representation together and clearly identify what we all have in common and how we might respectfully build on that commonality. Mindsets need to change and we need to hear and embrace how we can be helpful to each other rather than the perceived notions that regularly currently prevail.

If everyone brought their vision of how things could be better to the table and most importantly, if all concerned were to attempt to understand the significance of their own and each other's behaviour in given situations, then the entire focus would move to where co-operation, rather than conflict, can flourish.

If particular games were used as templates for observation and analysis in advance of the representative forum, and interpretation from different perspectives given, then a more comprehensive understanding would be available to all and, when shared in a non-threatening environment, this would inevitably lead to better practice.

The real advantage in this approach would be that, with the privilege of having a valid  opportunity to comment on the performance of others, everyone would have to be much more conscious of taking responsibility for their own behaviour. Essentially, this is a positive human relations exercise where everyone could share their reading of specific incidents and how particular styles of body language might impact on them or be interpreted by them.

If such a forum were to be initiated and consistently (that word again) convened across the rest of this season, I feel that would be the most positive legacy of the recent rules experiment.

Feck, whilst there may well be a valid point somewhere therein, that was hard going. Does Evil Genius do the ghost writing?

Finally Mickey listens to what the Fuzzman says.

I've been saying this for some time now that there needs to be communication between all parties so they can reach a common ground.

As they say at the loughshore "is that a dog hid in the hay." 

Quote from: saffron sam2 on May 08, 2009, 11:30:18 AM
Feck, whilst there may well be a valid point somewhere therein, that was hard going. Does Evil Genius do the ghost writing?

Reillers i think...

Quote from: Fuzzman on May 08, 2009, 12:10:10 PM
Finally Mickey listens to what the Fuzzman says.

I've been saying this for some time now that there needs to be communication between all parties so they can reach a common ground.

Interestingly, before the introduction of the new rules there was a meeting of concerned parties (including at least 15 current inter-county managers) where the changes to the rules were discussed and various examples of fouls from each category (i.e. no card, black card, yellow card and red card) were shown. Whilst there was general concensus among most of the people there, one manager was almost always two degrees below his peers. When examples were shown involving his own players, there was no talking to him at all. One manager was even allegedly moved to say (in a Dublin accent), "f**k sake, M*****. You're turning this whole thing into a joke."

Maybe Mickey Harte wasn't aware of this meeting.

Wsa Paddy Heaney at this meeting?

Quote from: orangeman on February 02, 2009, 03:01:05 PM
I think the Irish News have fooled all of us by making this annoucement.


You've missed the main point :



The Irish News has gone up to 70p - Mickey's fee must have forced the increase ?


Seriously though, the Irish News have pulled a stroke here - introducing Mickey and masking the rise in the cost.

I have to say,if that 10p went towards paying Mickey for writing this column, it's the worst gaelic football value for money I have had this year!

I'm sure he'll have no bother shouldering the blame for the increase... sure isn't he to blame
for most everything else, no one is being forced to buy and read his column lads.
How many times has it been said on here "if you don't like or are offended with a thread or the like...don't read it"

Quote from: Tyrones own on May 10, 2009, 01:23:11 AM
I'm sure he'll have no bother shouldering the blame for the increase... sure isn't he to blame
for most everything else, no one is being forced to buy and read his column lads.
How many times has it been said on here "if you don't like or are offended with a thread or the like...don't read it"

Does that mean that a poster who doesn't agree with him can't post a critical comment or even read the thread?

Quote
Does that mean that a poster who doesn't agree with him can't post a critical comment or even read the thread?

No I wouldn't go that far, can't is a strong word there but for those of us that didn't honestly believe at the start that he was actually going to spill the beans to his
successful way of thinking or his superior tactical nous at critical times during games, not to mention come out and castigate his players after any kind of infraction to
the rules of the game see most of this thread for what it is.... a cringeworthy weekly whinge fest :'(  from the usual suspects of envy and resentment.
I quite enjoy his column.. :)

Quote from: Tyrones own on May 10, 2009, 05:31:25 PM

Quote
Does that mean that a poster who doesn't agree with him can't post a critical comment or even read the thread?

No I wouldn't go that far, can't is a strong word there but for those of us that didn't honestly believe at the start that he was actually going to spill the beans to his
successful way of thinking or his superior tactical nous at critical times during games, not to mention come out and castigate his players after any kind of infraction to
the rules of the game see most of this thread for what it is.... a cringeworthy weekly whinge fest :'(  from the usual suspects of envy and resentment.
I quite enjoy his column.. :)

I couldn't agree more.  ;D

Quote from: muppet on May 10, 2009, 05:36:41 PM

Quote from: Tyrones own on May 10, 2009, 05:31:25 PM

Quote
Does that mean that a poster who doesn't agree with him can't post a critical comment or even read the thread?

No I wouldn't go that far, can't is a strong word there but for those of us that didn't honestly believe at the start that he was actually going to spill the beans to his
successful way of thinking or his superior tactical nous at critical times during games, not to mention come out and castigate his players after any kind of infraction to
the rules of the game see most of this thread for what it is.... a cringeworthy weekly whinge fest :'(  from the usual suspects of envy and resentment.
I quite enjoy his column.. :)

I couldn't agree more.  ;D

Fixed that for ye 8)

Quote from: Tyrones own on May 10, 2009, 05:31:25 PM

Quote
Does that mean that a poster who doesn't agree with him can't post a critical comment or even read the thread?

No I wouldn't go that far, can't is a strong word there but for those of us that didn't honestly believe at the start that he was actually going to spill the beans to his
successful way of thinking or his superior tactical nous at critical times during games, not to mention come out and castigate his players after any kind of infraction to
the rules of the game see most of this thread Mickey's column for what it is.... a cringeworthy weekly whinge fest;)

Strange how the envy all stems from the same few counties  :D
read it and weep girls ;D

It does make me weep reading it funny enough.

Well,I waited three months before making any comment on the merit of Mickey's column,so I take it I am not one of 'the usual suspects' who takes part in the 'weekly whinge fest'. Having read criticism on here of everyone who analyses or comments on gaelic games,from 'Pat the shite' to Frank Mitchell, I can't see why Mickey should be any different to the rest, especially since he has seen fit to question the quality of some of that analysis himself! I don't enjoy his column. I never expected any insight into the tactics employed by an inter-county manager, much less criticism of his players.I find his articles long-winded,take the following example:
'If particular games were used as templates for observation and analysis in advance of the representative forum,and interpretation from different perspectives given,then a more comprehensive understanding would be available to all and,when shared in a non threatening environment,this would inevitably lead to better practice.'
I am beginning to suspect he was involved in the drafting of the Belfast Agreement!

Agreed.....he suffers from the same windbag tendencies as a certain Tymoan poster on here. One bloated, convoluted sentence after another.  It must be a Tyrone thing.

Quote from: DennistheMenace on May 10, 2009, 10:41:55 PM
It does make me weep reading it funny enough.

I wouldn't doubt it, he does seem to have had the habit of giving his neighbours lots to weep about long before he ever had a column. :P

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 10, 2009, 10:56:16 PM
Agreed.....he suffers from the same windbag tendencies as a certain Tymoan poster on here. One bloated, convoluted sentence after another.  It must be a Tyrone thing.

Yerra FFS beating ye bies out the gates of Croke Park is the only Tyrone thing that matters here Mikey...but then ye know that ;D

QuoteYerra FFS cheating ye bies out the gates of Croke Park is the only Tyrone thing that matters here Mikey...but then ye know that

fixed that for you dubya.

I don't know why people who are involved closely with teams take up writing these newspaper columns.

They're hardly going to reveal any team 'secrets' or anything like that.

Having read a few of Harte's articles, he's just coming across as a right moaner as far as I'm concerned.

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on May 10, 2009, 11:08:35 PM

QuoteYerra FFS cheating ye bies out the gates of Croke Park is the only Tyrone thing that matters here Mikey...but then ye know that

fixed that for you dubya.

Wha........?  Ba...:D  Ba...:D  you've finally lost it ye poor b**tard, how sad to have come down to this as an excuse.
Tormented or demented? hard to say which :'(

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 10, 2009, 11:20:20 PM
I don't know why people who are involved closely with teams take up writing these newspaper columns.

They're hardly going to reveal any team 'secrets' or anything like that.

Having read a few of Harte's articles, he's just coming across as a right moaner as far as I'm concerned.

Two reasons.....
Money
Ego

Quote from: tbrick18 on May 10, 2009, 11:27:04 PM
Two reasons.....
Money
Ego

True  ;D

But I don't see how this is going to benefit either Tyrone or Harte himself in the long term. I don't think the column has reflected well on him and it could come back to bite him on the arse in the future.

I'd say it could bite him where ever it likes DH....he'll have an ass pocket full of Celtic crosses on one side and a fat bill fold on the other.
Do you honestly think he cares what the keyboard warriors here think of his column, after all, you're all still buying it ::)

I'm sure Mickey couldn't give a fiddlers what people think of his column but I just don't think it is appropriate for team managers to have such columns.

I remember Micko had one a few years ago in the Examiner but he just came out with the usual raméis and Kerry cute hoorism that you'd expect from him. Harte seems like more of a rent-a-quote on a whole range of topics from the International Rules to video evidence and I don't think it will do his popularity any good outside Tyrone. I certainly can't see it being well received by GAA hq.

Btw, I've never bought a copy of the Irish News in my life!

Quote from: Tyrones own on May 10, 2009, 11:43:35 PM
I'd say it could bite him where ever it likes DH....he'll have an ass pocket full of Celtic crosses on one side and a fat bill fold on the other.
Do you honestly think he cares what the keyboard warriors here think of his column, after all, you're all still buying it ::)

I certainly don't buy the Irish News to read Mickey's column, the 'Births deaths and marriages' would take precedence, but not in that order!

Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on May 10, 2009, 11:52:49 PM
I'm sure Mickey couldn't give a fiddlers what people think of his column but I just don't think it is appropriate for team managers to have such columns.

I remember Micko had one a few years ago in the Examiner but he just came out with the usual raméis and Kerry cute hoorism that you'd expect from him. Harte seems like more of a rent-a-quote on a whole range of topics from the International Rules to video evidence and I don't think it will do his popularity any good outside Tyrone. I certainly can't see it being well received by GAA hq.

Btw, I've never bought a copy of the Irish News in my life!

If we knew what they're paying him for his weekly rent-a-quotes, you might see it differently :-\

QuoteI certainly don't buy the Irish News to read Mickey's column, the 'Births deaths and marriages' would take precedence, but not in that order!

That's fair enough Paul although obviously the powers that be at the Irish News can't tell why you buy it or anyone else for that matter..if the circulation numbers
are good then any and all content including Harte's "weekly rantings" must be doing it's job then. To me it has the same ring to it as a certain Mr Spillane... very few liked
his biased slant on the Sunday game however it was due to the amount of energy and attention he was getting at the time that kept him there for as long as he was IMO.

I don't know why you have included 'weekly rantings' in a post addressed to me! I never used the words or any terms even remotely like them! As I said in my first comment in this topic,I have been very disappointed in his column, both the content and his style of writing. On the matter of remuneration and circulation,I wonder, if the reward is substantial, do the editorial staff at The Irish News  feel  they are getting value for money or are other publications looking on enviously?

QuoteI don't know why you have included 'weekly rantings' in a post addressed to me!

Apologies, that wasn't directed at you, merely quoting the general Jist of opinion from what I've read here.

QuoteOn the matter of remuneration and circulation,I wonder, if the reward is substantial, do the editorial staff at The Irish News  feel  they are getting value for money or are other publications looking on enviously?

Hard to know but I suppose as long as he keeps doing what it is he does for them we'll have to assume they're happy enough with him.