China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Redhand Santa

The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.

Hectic

Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Redhand Santa

The tables show the vaccines are very effective (far from perfect) particularly in younger people. In the 30 to 50 age bracket for example you are 7 times more likely to die or end up in hospital with covid if you are unvaccinated per those numbers. I'm no expert but I'd imagine a lot of the older people in hospital with covid could well have ended up in there anyway for a variety of factors given their age. It's the younger unvaccinated covid people who are causing a problem by taking up much needed beds.

Hectic

Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:25:26 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 09:45:56 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

Vast majority?  Really?

Latest published official (not Facebook or some 5 live propaganda merchant) UK data week 34 to week 37:
Positive cases unvaccinated: 490 (out of a total of 12,164)
Hospitalisations unvaccinated: 179 (out of a total of 1,610)
Deaths unvaccinated: 198 (out of a total of 1,521)

What is clear is that the proportion unvaccinated grows from cases through hospitalisations and deaths.

But related to that and a serious question.  How many people here understand their own risk profile?  How many accept that this virus clearly does discriminate?

Because the majority of young people in hospital (vaccinated or unvaccinated) are in poor health already.

So if vaccination value is really at hospital and mortality level then people who are high risk are the ones that maybe need to be seriously considering vaccination if they have not already.  They should also be making lifestyle changes because it is Covid today but these people are a ticking bomb and also are the greatest drain on our health services generally.  Not the young healthy unvaccinated. 

If we want a long term solution we need to focus resource on improving the health of the population.  Taxing sugar and subsidising healthy food would be a good start.  As it stands it is cheaper and more convenient for people to eat crap.

Otherwise we are just standing p!$$ing on a raging fire.

You see this is the problem - far too much misinformation being thrown about. You didn't read the table properly and the above only relates to people who are 80+ (and got vaccinated the longest time ago).

My bad.  Will update when I get a chance.  I had previously analysed this data and quickly went back thinking I was lifting the totals.  Will update with correct figures when I get a chance.

Keyser soze

Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Hectic

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.

themac_23

Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.

lets use your figures, given that over 80% of the population is vaccinated, including 99% of our vulnerable who are going to be more prone to being hospitalised, 39% of hospital admissions is coming from only 20% of the population, of that 20% its accepted that these are people who felt they didnt need the vaccine due to their demographic of being young fit etc. so would you not say the numbers yo have quoted actually are a massive red flag and should encourage vaccination?

Hectic

Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

And of course given your superior intellect you will have picked up case rates per 100,000 for those over 30 are significantly higher among the vaccinated.

Just another fact.

Redhand Santa

I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Hectic

Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 11:07:11 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:56:56 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on October 20, 2021, 10:42:55 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 10:36:25 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 10:31:10 AM
The tables actually show that per 100,000 people the vaccinated rate of hospitalisation is 112.9 for vaccinated people v 420.8 for non vaccinated. In terms of deaths its 69.3 for vaccinated and 263.2 for non vaccinated. However, the over 80's are bumping up the vaccinated death numbers a lot - if you take them out its 19.8 vaccinated v 107.2 non vaccinated.


Yes that is true and why at younger people in at risk category should consider vaccination if not already done so.

Rates per 100,000 are a good comparable measure but the data does not mean hospitals are full of unvaccinated as 5 Live guy claimed.

Fella you have proved time and again that you haven't the faintest notion about the meaning of basic figures right in front of your face, but you keep on posting embarassingly mad, and completely false, interpretations of information which any reasonably intelligent child could disprove in a New York minute.  Have a wee bit of dignity and stop posting on this thread and making a fool of yourself.

Whatever you think.  I hold my hands up, I pulled the incorrect figures from the table in a rush but only because I knew the official data proves it is false to say majority in hospitals were unvaccinated based on this official data.

Hospitalisations (all age groups) UK week 34 to week 37:
Unvaccinated = 3,220 out of 8,255
Or 39%
39% is not a majority, even by my bad math.

I might have no clue but those are the facts.

lets use your figures, given that over 80% of the population is vaccinated, including 99% of our vulnerable who are going to be more prone to being hospitalised, 39% of hospital admissions is coming from only 20% of the population, of that 20% its accepted that these are people who felt they didnt need the vaccine due to their demographic of being young fit etc. so would you not say the numbers yo have quoted actually are a massive red flag and should encourage vaccination?

Have you read my previous posts?

I am not even challenging that vaccine appears effective for reducing hospitalisation and deaths.  In fact I have posted that benefit a few times.

So yes of course there appears to be people winding up in hospital and some sadly dying where vaccination could have been the difference.

I am advocating that people are educated on their level of risk.  As it is we have a cohort who are not getting vaccinated and that is that because they think that being young is the end of the story.

The reality is that the majority of the young will not need vaccination but among them are people of high risk.

These, in the main, are the younger people ending up in hospital and dying.

So why do we not focus more on risk profile to encourage those at risk towards vaccination as opposed to the big stick approach that just leads people to dig in even more.

Of course that appears to make me an anti-vaxxer, conspiracy theorists and whatever other type of comfort blanket character the hysteria merchants have created in their heads.

Hectic

Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

BennyCake

Quote from: bennydorano on October 20, 2021, 10:13:32 AM
Quote from: Rudi on October 20, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
The building industry is self regulated in the republic, no nsai audits or policing of products to meet minimum accept quality criteria. Therefore the tax payer will be liable for full redress of the re-build of thousands of homes in Donegal (affected by mica) to the tune of 3 billion euro plus.
Same applies to the Covid certs. Leo Varadkar expects me to ask a pub why they let me into their facility without producing a proof of Covid Vaccination Cert. Whats the point in asking for certs if the matter is not going to be policed by an independent body. The government in the republic have handled things poorly too. We always had a winter health crisis regarding hospitals & availability of ICU beds, the unvaccinated are the fall guys these days.

By the way whats the story in the North, do they ask for Covid Certs when dinning indoors?
I was in Sligo at the weekend and it was a shock to the system covid wise, asked for vaccine certificate everywhere and just that feeling of strictness, the North is a joke, you might get asked for a name & phone number at a pub door from my experience.

The covid pass is nonsense.

You could have 100 people in a pub, and they'll all be let in with their passes, no questions asked. Any number of them could have covid. Now, you might say the vaccine reduces transmission/severity, but that's still potentially 100 people coming out of that pub with the virus.

BennyCake

Quote from: themac_23 on October 20, 2021, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 09:24:39 AM
Was listening to 5 live on the way into work, the vast majority of those with Covid in hospital are not vaccinated, that came from the head of the medical doctors federation, he also said that we will need to have the booster to help with this winter as people's immunes will be less due to the last time they had the second jab..

Now, I'd take the information from him over the crackpots on facebook in fairness, I know, call me crazy...

Who knows what's going to happen this winter, it won't be pretty that's for sure, but if several million of people in the UK haven't taken a vaccine how will it ever work?

Are we going down to the point of acceptable death, with hospitals over run with more 'acceptable' deaths from other issues because we have no staff to run it or beds to put people in?

The vaccine roll out really should have been what drove us back towards normality(it has been) but the number of people still not taking the vaccine is a pain, so selfish.

As crude as it sounds, we do have to have a number of acceptable deaths. Every other part of our life has an acceptable number of deaths. We have to live with Covid just like we live with many other diseases. We cannot go back to locking people down. Personally I'd like to see the government turn the screw more and make more things undoable without vaccine passport, there's people who can't take the vaccine we should be giving them a similar exemption pass but everyone else get the jab and get on with life

Pointing the finger at the unvaccinated is a deliberate distraction from the fact that the vaccine clearly isn't working, and isn't stopping the rise in infection rates.

Hectic

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 20, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Hectic on October 20, 2021, 11:19:37 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on October 20, 2021, 11:13:42 AM
I've no way of proving it but I'd imagine a lot of people over 60 who are in hospital with covid could well have ended up there anyway given the age profile. If you look at the under 60's, 2,411 out of 3,840 in hospital are unvaccinated (63%).

Again not disputing but still false to say vast majority in hospital are unvaccinated.

The person that said it would have better knowledge than you , he also said that we are at the end of the first vaccine's best use, as in the effects of that are starting to diminish, thus the requirement of the booster is important, along with protection against the flu the flu jab has been rolled out pretty quick round my way

Lol. Ok.