Armagh V Tipperary - Crossmaglen - 28/03/2010 14.30

[AFS]

Lads I think a small bit of perspective needs to be brought into the whole discussion.  At the start of the year Armagh football was doomed and we were more or less nialled on certainties to go down in some people's eyes.  Now going into the last game promotion is in the players own hands as is a place in the League Final,  Duffy has reignited his intercounty career, Swift has brought himself back into the reckoning, Toner has retrieved some of his form, there is a viable alternative in goals who is getting his chance, a number of other players have played well and the league has been played almost exclusively without 3-4 main players.  This was to be a year of O'Rourle finding his feet, getting to know the players, getting rid of old wood and blending in new, a decent league run, and a decent championship run, preferrably through the back door with a few favourable draws.  I think that six months ago people woud gladly have accepted where we are now.

I don't think many were that pessimistic. What you are saying is right, we find ourselves in a better position than expected. But some gloom is merited, I think our league position is as much down to the poor quality of our competitors as anything special from ourselves. Some of our football is very poor to watch; the forwards, particularly the half forwards still haven't been sorted out; and perhaps most disappointingly, a lot of these promising new players that we've been banking on, have been very ordinary thus far. In short, things have looked awfully similar to the last regime at times (the second half yesterday was identical - over run in the middle; non-existent HF line; Mallon and Kernan dropping back into the defence; one or two men isolated in the FF line). The apparent progress of our neighbours, also under new management and starting from a lower base than us, during the same time frame hasn't helped.

I can't see us beating Donegal, and I fear we'll be heading into the Championship on the back of three disappointing displays. Hopefully Letterkenny will see a bit of invention and fluidity in the forward line, that's what's missing more than anything at the minute.

[DuffleKing]

Jaysus i don't know bc. Anyone who expected this squad of players to be relegated shouldn't have been taken seriously. I think man for man, armagh have as good a 1 - 9 as is in the country. add in mcdonnell and (the hiterto missing) clarke, it's a hell of a start.

I don't think O'Rourke is that far away though. Ironically, i think he's gone completely the wron direction with the half forward line. He's gone for big athletic players here who i suppose he has looked to win ball and be able to support the forward line but it hasn't happen. aaron plays way too deep to contribute in attacking sense and swift yesterday has been the first truely positive contribution from the half forward line - because he can pass the ball. The dearth of break ball being won is a major issue, as well as a consistent scoring threat from here.

The standard of football at the minute is very poor. kerry and tyrone are back v close to the pack and cork retain mental blockages so there is a very good chance for a lot of the sub top tier teams to have a big impact this year - armagh included.


This year to develop and find your feet theory is nonsense. if you can't organise and set up the best players in the county to close to their optimum across a mckenna cup and league campaign in six months then you shouldn't be in the job. I don't think that applies to this management team though, i think they are on course so far and with everyone fit and a bit of tactical nous armagh can be a top 4 team.

[brokencrossbar1]

Maybe a bit dramatic with the pessimism but I do think that Armagh are further forward than what people are thinking.  Let's face it when Joe took over the job there was a core of very good footballers who had been banging hard on the door for the 2-3 years before hand.  They had strong leaders in the likes of McGeeney and McGrane and some of the finest forwards in Ireland at the time.  These players have never been replaced and also the game has changed dramatically from then. 

The standard of football at the minute is very poor. kerry and tyrone are back v close to the pack and cork retain mental blockages so there is a very good chance for a lot of the sub top tier teams to have a big impact this year - armagh included.


This year to develop and find your feet theory is nonsense. if you can't organise and set up the best players in the county to close to their optimum across a mckenna cup and league campaign in six months then you shouldn't be in the job. I don't think that applies to this management team though, i think they are on course so far and with everyone fit and a bit of tactical nous armagh can be a top 4 team.

I agree that the standard of football has been poor this year but it is still only March and until July no one will take any notice of what is going on.  I do think however that this year should be seen as a building year.  O'Rourke was taking over a team that was completely transitional and was nowhere near where it could be.  To think a manager can take over a team and make it work in the space of 6 months is horseshit.  Armagh is not blessed with an abundance of talent and there is a huge jump from minor and u 21 to senior.  The players that have excelled in the underage teams over the last 3-4 years are still 2-3 years away from being inter county senior footballers and anyone who can't see that is fooling themselves.

[rionach 4]

My worry is that I knew before the season started we had nine maybe ten players capable of holding their own on any team in the country. But the truth  is we havent found any forward to take the heat of mcDonnell and Clarke. We are short 4 or five players . Stefan Forker Ryan henderson Tony kernan Joe feeney mal mackin Martin Ferris have not sparkled in the way one would hope . Yes they have all had their moments but to infrequent . I watched the u-21 on Wednesday last and from that match no-one could come on to the county panel. Maybe Jamie clarke was injured but there was no stand out player and that for me was the disappointing aspect of the game. The players all tried are much of a muchness. Swift has probably produced that litle bit extra and could make a difference .
aaron Kernan had his best game yesterday by far . He will get better in that division with swift maybe moving up we need two more

[naka]

was disappointed with the second half collapse, both goals  conceded were poor from a county team and I thought Donaghy struggled in the second half, for me duffy and ferris played well in defence,
I was also dissapoimted with some of  Heartys kickouts which were aimed at swift in the second half because by simply putting up his right arm he alerted everyone to the fact that he was going to hit swift who invariably  was under pressure trying to get the ball , management need a new signal strategy for kickouts,mallon i thought played ok, as did AK and dyas had a nice cameo,
half forward line as a whole have to take more responsibility and shoot more i lost count of the cross field handpasses in the second half
team for donegal
Hearty( better kickouts and both for me are error prone)
duffy, donaghy mallon
moriarity, mc keever, dyas/ferris
toner,lvernon
swift,AK forker
, Stevie, Clarke, mallon

[mackers]

I've always been a glass half full man myself and I'd go along with BC1. After the Monaghan debacle last year I would have gladly taken a couple years to rebuild whilst playing a better style of football.  we are now, at least, trying to play football the way it should be played IMO. This year has been a step forward, and while we're changing our style of play we're going to have to put up with some inconsistent displays. What can't be forgiven however is the howlers we are conceding......the two goals yesterday and against Meath and Coulter's goal were horrendous defensive lapses.
We have to remember we were playing yesterday without three of our best players. If we were Tyrone we'd be complaining a bit more about our injuries!!
That said, we can't be overly pleased with our campaign as the standard in the division is poor. Donegal were always going to be one of the three big matches we faced in this year's league, we have zero points out of the other two big tests.........

[orange2009]

Match report as Armagh hold out to beat Tipperary

http://armagh-gaa.com/Armagh-TV/News/VIDEO--Match-Report---Armagh-1-15-Tipperary-2-8.aspx

[hobit hunter]

At the end of the day if you don't have scoring forwards you don't win games, leagues or championships.  We have two and one is out injured.  For all the banter back and forth, experiments etc this fact cannot be overlooked.  Down have rampaged through this league and are improving because they have those half and full forwards that we need.  If we are to take on any sort of realism then we have to realise that no matter how much we want it or how much we want to believe you need a Clarke, McDonnell, McConville and Marsden as a minimum to win silverware.  4 out of 6 need to be top class scoring threats - look at any team to win the All Ireland in the last two decades.......with Down 93 possibly the only exception!

[T Fearon]

No doubt the deficiencies in the Down 1993 side led to them  being knocked out by Derry in that year's Ulster Championship first round

I

[hobit hunter]

Just makin sure that you were payin attention, 94

[camloughlad]

At the end of the day if you don't have scoring forwards you don't win games, leagues or championships.  We have two and one is out injured.  For all the banter back and forth, experiments etc this fact cannot be overlooked.  Down have rampaged through this league and are improving because they have those half and full forwards that we need.  If we are to take on any sort of realism then we have to realise that no matter how much we want it or how much we want to believe you need a Clarke, McDonnell, McConville and Marsden as a minimum to win silverware.  4 out of 6 need to be top class scoring threats - look at any team to win the All Ireland in the last two decades.......with Down 93 possibly the only exception

kevin orourke would of been a big help this year.last year he was always out in front hungry for the ball and was able to take a score something a few of the Armagh forwards dnt have.dnt no why he was ever dropped for

[hobit hunter]

I agree camloughlad - he was hugry, first to the ball and looked solid.  Can anyone cast light on his exclusion?

[ardmhaca08]

Orourke met him and told him he didnt tick his boxes and he just wasnt good enough.

[hobit hunter]

Interesting decision.  From championship to off the panel?  We'll have to trust his judgement.  Nevertheless, it still leaves our issue at half forward to sort out!  What age is Murnin by the way and does he have an older brother?

[T Fearon]

Murnin couldn't even make this year's U21 panel.