The 3 remaining sides in this years All Ireland football championship are 3 highly funded, professionally prepared teams. All 3 have spent huge sums on getting to this stage of the competition. Their resources come from many different sources. Most will know of the high profile sponsorship deals and fundraising expeditions and of one of the counties getting 1.5 million euro yearly off regular GAA folk like you and me to fund the development of their underage players.
The source of their resources needs to be looked at but in this thread I'm focusing on the results of the high level funding and the impact it's having on the game. It is my opinion that if it is let continue it will finish the game of Gaelic football as we know it. The money available to these teams is not just giving them a hugely unfair advantage but it's making teams question the point of competing with them. The only conclusion to this madness will be either the cash rich teams splitting away from the rest to form their own competition or the rest splitting away from them.
Let's have a look at the impact the money is having on teams and competitions already. In Munster Kerry are dominant, nothing new here you say. The difference between now and before is that teams like Tipperary and Clare are putting in huge efforts to improve their standards. Their growth is being stunted at senior level because of whippings they get from Kerry. Let's not forget where Kerry were. No All Ireland since 2009, very little talent coming through, people were even predicting that it would be a long time before Kerry were at the top again. What changed? They got a shed load of money and trained their team to a professional level.
The Connacht championship is being dominated by one side, Mayo are likely to set a record for the number of Connacht titles they win in a row. They've handed out numerous beatings to all teams including a big county in Galway. Similar to Kerry, they are also halting the growth of teams like Roscommon who're putting in huge underage work and beating teams by 20+ points wont be helping them improve. GAA men and women in Leitrim are begging to be put into another competition even, they see no point in entering the Connacht championship and why should they? There's no way they can compete with the money Mayo have available to them.
The Leinster championship is dead. Dublin have won all but 1 of the last 10 Leinster championships. Teams now are beaten before they even get on the pitch. They hand out regular beatings to everyone. No one has got within 7 points of them since 2013. Again here teams are trying to get out of the Leinster championship, there's no point in competing in it. Dublin just use it as a warm up exercise, try out a few players and build up fitness for the later stages. This is a result of years of millions being given to fund the growth of their players and millions being pumped into their senior teams preparation.
Many counties around the country don't have their best players playing for them because the interest is not there. Why train all year to get destroyed in your provincial championship? As I've pointed out, some counties want to be put into a separate competition while the money rich counties are sick of wasting their time beating the poor counties so talk of throwing them into a losers competition is growing. Do we want an elite league where you need money to enter their competition? Is this what the GAA is meant to be about? Also as we seen last Sunday, these teams have no respect for the game. They're all about win at all costs like all professional teams.
Let's call a spade a spade here. This is financial doping, the teams remaining are buying their way to the top. I've already pointed out some of the results that has and will happen because of this but the ultimate conclusion is the game will go professional in these counties. We already see it with players barely ever working, their whole diet/lifestyle/daily routine being looked after by highly paid professionals. This has to be stopped.
The question of how we stop it can be answered later, first we have to let it be known that we want it stopped. There's too much silence on this issue. It barely ever gets mentioned in the national media. Whenever it does it's always shouted down by the money rich counties. Dublin GAA went mad when it was suggested that their yearly 1.5 million budget they get from the GAA should be looked at. We can't let this go on. It will destroy the inter county game, within a decade it will be finished. They'll be an elite league of about 8 playing professionally. We can't let this happen. Let's stop it now!
What are your exact figures for Mayo, Dublin and Kerry?
Back up the claims with factual figures and not some nonsense like "everyone knows" etc....
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
What are your exact figures for Mayo, Dublin and Kerry?
Back up the claims with factual figures and not some nonsense like "everyone knows" etc....
Also many Counties have wealthy businessmen to tap into. Just because other counties don't have the ability to tap into it like others do well that's their own problem really! Donegal was one of the worst hit counties during the recession yet McGuinness was able to get funding to prepare his team to the highest level!
Good post Teo, I agree with every word , your doing sterling work with this agenda. Teo Lurley, ever hear of a former player from Laois called Leo Turley.
When small teams can't compete they blame it on finance instead at looking at their own county structures in place, teams need to follow the Kerry, Dublin, Mayo and Tyrone structures, bringing the game to the next level and other teams falling behind is their own failure alone.
I can tell you that Mayo have a panel this year of 32 only. Lots of guys who were in Horan's squads were left off by H&C.
E.g. only 2 goalies. Most top teams would have 3 in the squad. No room for 3 in Mayo as they budget is too tight.
Add that to the expense of playing late into the Summer and Autumn and you can add on thousands. Finally I don't know why Mayo are being compared to Dublin and Kerry. I did a check of the Elverys stock price there and found it was $0.00.
Elverys is not a global company like Kerry Group or AIG pumping whatever revenue is required into the setup.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
What are your exact figures for Mayo, Dublin and Kerry?
Back up the claims with factual figures and not some nonsense like "everyone knows" etc....
And how do you think I'd have access to the exact figures? We know Kerry raised 4 or 5 million in America nd Britain, Cake Curran said Mayo were spending 12k a week on their team, I think his estimation was low. We can be more sure about Dublin. Their aig deal is well known, we can't know for sure what they get off their 11 or so other sponsors but some of them are big names. We know what they get off the GAA yearly because the GAA release their accounts.
If you don't have a clue about this topic then maybe you should do some research and come back then.
Quote from: screenexile on September 03, 2015, 11:02:33 AM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 10:58:54 AM
What are your exact figures for Mayo, Dublin and Kerry?
Back up the claims with factual figures and not some nonsense like "everyone knows" etc....
Also many Counties have wealthy businessmen to tap into. Just because other counties don't have the ability to tap into it like others do well that's their own problem really! Donegal was one of the worst hit counties during the recession yet McGuinness was able to get funding to prepare his team to the highest level!
Wealthy businessmen are part of the problem. All finances need to be looked at. Do we want everyone competing on a level playing field or not?
Is Ulster not worth a mention >:(
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 11:08:27 AM
I can tell you that Mayo have a panel this year of 32 only. Lots of guys who were in Horan's squads were left off by H&C.
E.g. only 2 goalies. Most top teams would have 3 in the squad. No room for 3 in Mayo as they budget is too tight.
Add that to the expense of playing late into the Summer and Autumn and you can add on thousands. Finally I don't know why Mayo are being compared to Dublin and Kerry. I did a check of the Elverys stock price there and found it was $0.00.
Elverys is not a global company like Kerry Group or AIG pumping whatever revenue is required into the setup.
You're comparing Mayo with Dublin and Kerry, I'm comparing Mayo with Leitrim and Roscommon. There's no doubt that Dublin are far ahead in this financial doping. That doesn't mean that other counties should go unnoticed too. It all needs to be looked at seriously. Counties are going into huge debt just trying to keep up with the big boys.
Quote from: Hereiam on September 03, 2015, 11:14:42 AM
Is Ulster not worth a mention >:(
I was giving the Ulster boyos a pass but you still complain. :) There's reasons I wont be mentioning British funding.
Underneath the hyperbole, Teo has a point. It's extremely hard to stomach lads on the Sunday Game saying smaller counties should 'get their houses in order'. That's an easy thing to say from an ivory tower, when those counties don't have money for coaches, or to run effective development academies. Spending on senior squads is crazy, and counties need to be held to account on money they are wasting on external managers or the like, but at the end of the day, if you don't have enough money to maximise the resources you do have, it's just not fair to be told to get your house in order.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 11:15:33 AM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 11:08:27 AM
I can tell you that Mayo have a panel this year of 32 only. Lots of guys who were in Horan's squads were left off by H&C.
E.g. only 2 goalies. Most top teams would have 3 in the squad. No room for 3 in Mayo as they budget is too tight.
Add that to the expense of playing late into the Summer and Autumn and you can add on thousands. Finally I don't know why Mayo are being compared to Dublin and Kerry. I did a check of the Elverys stock price there and found it was $0.00.
Elverys is not a global company like Kerry Group or AIG pumping whatever revenue is required into the setup.
You're comparing Mayo with Dublin and Kerry, I'm comparing Mayo with Leitrim and Roscommon. There's no doubt that Dublin are far ahead in this financial doping. That doesn't mean that other counties should go unnoticed too. It all needs to be looked at seriously. Counties are going into huge debt just trying to keep up with the big boys.
I would say that money is not the main problem for the likes of Leitrim. It's population and they simply don't have a density of players large enough to compete against the likes of Mayo. Also if you are to reason it out properly there are several areas that need to be looked at for lesser counties to have a chance. See the following.
Back Door: One of the big problems for the smaller counties is the back door. Smaller counties may have one shot at their larger neighbours. And that may come off in June on their home patch as the big teams who aspire to wining the All Ireland are now being primed to peak in August and September. But everyone now is guaranteed a second chance up to the quarters so it's not as big a deal for top teams to lose in June as hey can conceivably still get through to August via the back door. The bottom line is that the back door has benefited the bigger teams more than the smaller teams.
Home patch: Dublin play all games in Croker. It's unfair as it's their home pitch. Remember they play all League games there as well. Dubs will say it's not but if so why then do they always get to warm up in front of the hill? Anyway it would have been much more of a spectacle if Dublin had to leave and go to Longford or Westmeath this year. The Leinster Council at the top are driving this though.
The League format: Mickey Harte said that no team outside Div 1 of the League will win the All Ireland anymore. And he's been proven right to date. Div 1 of the League is like having championship football in February. These are top games and really intense. No comparison to Div 3 or Div 4. The knock on effect is that players playing at this level and this tempo know and get insight into the effort, intensity, strength and conditioning and all the rest that is required for later on in the year. They like it and will put in all the hours possible to try and be better than their counterparts in Div 1. This has serious results for later on in the year against so called "lesser" teams not used to playing at that intensity.
The overall point is that it is not just Money that is the main difference between teams. Although yes I would agree it is a factor.
I think there's two issues here that are be muddled in together.
Yes money is a huge issue, I'll leave that to one side
I'm going to assume Mayo and Galway spend the same amount on football, Roscommon realistically not much less (if you pro-rata out given we're there until September the last few years)
The reason mayo are more successful is largely down to James Horan putting in place a professional structure where Galway clearly haven't. We were beaten by Sligo and Longford before he came along.
Success breeds success, everyone in Mayo has a mayo Jersey, a training top, a jacket, it's all money coming in but it's all due to on the field success, we get huge crowds at our games for the same reason. Money follows that.
It would be nice to have a reasonable conversation about money in the GAA. It's not going to happen though when one party to the conversation always demonstrates naked hostility towards one county in particular.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 11:36:41 AM
I think there's two issues here that are be muddled in together.
Yes money is a huge issue, I'll leave that to one side
I'm going to assume Mayo and Galway spend the same amount on football, Roscommon realistically not much less (if you pro-rata out given we're there until September the last few years)
The reason mayo are more successful is largely down to James Horan putting in place a professional structure where Galway clearly haven't. We were beaten by Sligo and Longford before he came along.
Success breeds success, everyone in Mayo has a mayo Jersey, a training top, a jacket, it's all money coming in but it's all due to on the field success, we get huge crowds at our games for the same reason. Money follows that.
Unfortunately not on the money side, that I can assure you. Football & Hurling is now under the same umbrella the past few years and there is a size-able debt there that has to be managed which limits spending obviously - no restructure from CP in our case unfortunately.
I would fully agree with you on the structures side BUT it is changing albeit slowly - we will get there eventually and an AI win this Sunday would undoubtedly help the coffers long terms also, for both codes.
Quote from: deiseach on September 03, 2015, 11:48:07 AM
It would be nice to have a reasonable conversation about money in the GAA. It's not going to happen though when one party to the conversation always demonstrates naked hostility towards one county in particular.
True, and ironically it means the very topic they would like discussed, doesn't get a proper airing.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 11:18:48 AM
Underneath the hyperbole, Teo has a point. It's extremely hard to stomach lads on the Sunday Game saying smaller counties should 'get their houses in order'. That's an easy thing to say from an ivory tower, when those counties don't have money for coaches, or to run effective development academies. Spending on senior squads is crazy, and counties need to be held to account on money they are wasting on external managers or the like, but at the end of the day, if you don't have enough money to maximise the resources you do have, it's just not fair to be told to get your house in order.
It needs to be sorted at the top and we need to let them know that we want them to sort it. Once this happens we can talk about fair distribution of funds, sorting out every county with plans to ensure the money is spent wisely and so forth. I know Uibh Fhaili would back this campaign for sure seeing where they are now in both codes.
Leo, you say Offaly would back it but from the outside looking in it seems all the Leinster delegates vote year in and out for Dublin to be kept in CP for the championship, I think assuming unity of opinion with these lads is a stretch.....unfortunately
Offaly did vote against that this year, pure coincidence that they were drawn to possibly play the Dubs in the second round :)
This financial issue also drips down to club football. I'm sure most counties have clubs barely surviving trying to pay outside managers, s&c coaches, video analysts, physios etc. Club lottos meant to improve the club infrastructure are being handed over with interest. The big loser in all this is juvenile set-ups which are left under resourced. This eventually leads to poorer county teams down the line. It's a hugely issue croke park need to tackle
A few thoughts. Yes Dublin have unfair advantage but are willing to travel and have said so. Leinster GAA have picked the venues and if Dublin start travelling it means less money for other counties as gate receipts are way down. Most of the other counties would rather play in Croker. A level playing field does not exist when it comes to funding from sponsorship but central funds are allocated appropriately. Corporate sponsors want teams performing, in finals, competitive annually, to get a return. That's why we have Kerry Group, AIG and the likes of Elverys. Although Elverys are but small compared to those they have huge presence countrywide. If Mayo lost them tomorrow you can be sure a huge sponsor will be found. Then again Tayto, Skoda, Renault and chill.ie for example are fair big brands too.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: deiseach on September 03, 2015, 11:48:07 AM
It would be nice to have a reasonable conversation about money in the GAA. It's not going to happen though when one party to the conversation always demonstrates naked hostility towards one county in particular.
True, and ironically it means the very topic they would like discussed, doesn't get a proper airing.
This thread is fair and balanced.
Quote from: T Toatler on September 03, 2015, 12:46:41 PM
A few thoughts. Yes Dublin have unfair advantage but are willing to travel and have said so. Leinster GAA have picked the venues and if Dublin start travelling it means less money for other counties as gate receipts are way down. Most of the other counties would rather play in Croker. A level playing field does not exist when it comes to funding from sponsorship but central funds are allocated appropriately. Corporate sponsors want teams performing, in finals, competitive annually, to get a return. That's why we have Kerry Group, AIG and the likes of Elverys. Although Elverys are but small compared to those they have huge presence countrywide. If Mayo lost them tomorrow you can be sure a huge sponsor will be found. Then again Tayto, Skoda, Renault and chill.ie for example are fair big brands too.
Can you explain that comment T? Do you think central funds are currently being allocated appropriately, or do you think they *should*be?
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 12:14:52 PM
Leo, you say Offaly would back it but from the outside looking in it seems all the Leinster delegates vote year in and out for Dublin to be kept in CP for the championship, I think assuming unity of opinion with these lads is a stretch.....unfortunately
Only one county consistently opposes Dublin having every championship match at home. The rank and file vote in delegates though, it's time they were sent a message.
Quote from: maccer on September 03, 2015, 12:35:39 PM
This financial issue also drips down to club football. I'm sure most counties have clubs barely surviving trying to pay outside managers, s&c coaches, video analysts, physios etc. Club lottos meant to improve the club infrastructure are being handed over with interest. The big loser in all this is juvenile set-ups which are left under resourced. This eventually leads to poorer county teams down the line. It's a hugely issue croke park need to tackle
This is very true, if some counties are being provided with fully paid coaches to go into clubs and develop talent then it's hugely unfair. This leads to clubs in other counties trying to catch up as you've pointed out which can have disastrous results.
Quote from: T Toatler on September 03, 2015, 12:46:41 PM
A few thoughts. Yes Dublin have unfair advantage but are willing to travel and have said so. Leinster GAA have picked the venues and if Dublin start travelling it means less money for other counties as gate receipts are way down. Most of the other counties would rather play in Croker. A level playing field does not exist when it comes to funding from sponsorship but central funds are allocated appropriately. Corporate sponsors want teams performing, in finals, competitive annually, to get a return. That's why we have Kerry Group, AIG and the likes of Elverys. Although Elverys are but small compared to those they have huge presence countrywide. If Mayo lost them tomorrow you can be sure a huge sponsor will be found. Then again Tayto, Skoda, Renault and chill.ie for example are fair big brands too.
Dublin county board vote to have their games played in Croke Park every year, where are you getting this willing to travel nonsense from? Crowds wont be going to Leinster matches at all if the situation is let continue. Central funds are not allocated appropriately.
I believe Dublin would not have a problem travelling to play Leinster Championship Matches.
For all the talk of money here - and some of it is quite valid - personally believe that anyone who thinks money is the primary difference between the top-4 counties and the rest, is deliberately looking at the wrong picture in the hope of finding something.
- - -
The reason why Kerry are better at football, as they have been for 40 years, is because they've got better players (not just in terms of talent, but in terms of application too).
The reason why Dublin have been trouncing everyone in Leinster for decade is because they've had demonstratively better players (not just in terms of talent, but in terms of application too).
The reason why Mayo have been dominant for the past 5 years in Mayo is because they've had a golden generation of players, who are all 100% committed to the cause.
The reason why Donegal went from non-entity to genuine contenders is because they employed a manager who stopped looking for excuses, and decided to maximise the talent at his disposal (which was concentrated on improving their application).
- - -
These counties all appear to be better funded, better resourced than competing counties because at present they're successful, and people gravitate towards success. Sponsors are people.
For example, can you imagine how much easier was it for Donegal's county board to approach sponsors in 2011 and 2012 than it was in 2010? Actually I'd harbour a guess that by 2012 they didn't even have to approach sponsors: instead people were approaching them with blank cheques in hand. People want to be associated with success, and sponsors want to believe that its their cash that facilitates the success.
- - -
This won't last forever. In the noughties Armagh and Kildare were two of the biggest cash cows in Irish sport. But the generous people who gave their players and management such a degree of flexibility then, are either gone, or are waiting in the wings until the level of players needed to be successful returns.
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
I believe Dublin would not have a problem travelling to play Leinster Championship Matches.
They don't want to though as their vote shows. Having every match at home is a huge advantage for them and getting as much practice as possible on the pitch where all the later stages are played has been significant in their success up to know and in future times.
We are getting side tracked though, this is not about where games are played or about Dublin GAA although they are the main culprits in the huge spending on preparation of players and teams.
This is about fair play for all 32 counties. Everyone should have an opportunity to compete equally against their opposition. Not only does the finance need to be distributed fairly but systems have to be put in place so all counties are given a chance to develop players to compete. This will improve the standard of Gaelic football countrywide, halt the loss of players to other sports/losing interest in the game, improve the club game in every county and many other advantages. There's plenty of ideas on how this can be done and in what way but first we need enough people to want to do this and make their voice heard. We have to do it before it's too late!
So it turns out all you want is socialism.
Do you know what happens when you try to distribute everything evenly?
The greedy get a new system to exploit.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2015, 01:06:40 PM
For all the talk of money here - and some of it is quite valid - personally believe that anyone who thinks money is the primary difference between the top-4 counties and the rest, is deliberately looking at the wrong picture in the hope of finding something.
- - -
The reason why Kerry are better at football, as they have been for 40 years, is because they've got better players (not just in terms of talent, but in terms of application too).
The reason why Dublin have been trouncing everyone in Leinster for decade is because they've had demonstratively better players (not just in terms of talent, but in terms of application too).
The reason why Mayo have been dominant for the past 5 years in Mayo is because they've had a golden generation of players, who are all 100% committed to the cause.
The reason why Donegal went from non-entity to genuine contenders is because they employed a manager who stopped looking for excuses, and decided to maximise the talent at his disposal (which was concentrated on improving their application).
- - -
These counties all appear to be better funded, better resourced than competing counties because at present they're successful, and people gravitate towards success. Sponsors are people.
For example, can you imagine how much easier was it for Donegal's county board to approach sponsors in 2011 and 2012 than it was in 2010? Actually I'd harbour a guess that by 2012 they didn't even have to approach sponsors: instead people were approaching them with blank cheques in hand. People want to be associated with success, and sponsors want to believe that its their cash that facilitates the success.
- - -
This won't last forever. In the noughties Armagh and Kildare were two of the biggest cash cows in Irish sport. But the generous people who gave their players and management such a degree of flexibility then, are either gone, or are waiting in the wings until the level of players needed to be successful returns.
Money isn't the only reason some of these teams are having success but it has a major part to play and it's the reason why such a big gap is appearing between them and the rest. It also is putting other counties in huge debt trying to keep up with them, plus it's destroying the game in smaller counties who're getting killed every year.
Kerry - Are always there at the top. Correct but look at what was happening, they hadn't won an All Ireland since 2009, it looked like there was very little talent coming through and many predicted they wouldn't see success in a decade at least. Now they have won an All Ireland, are back in another final and have a huge number of underage talent being developed. Is it a coincidence that their improvements started when they decided to get working on raising finance and pumping in huge money to their teams and structures?
Dublin - Just over a decade ago small counties like Westmeath, Laois and Kildare were winning Leinster titles. Meath were regular winners. What happened? The GAA started giving 1.5 million euro on average per year to Dublin GAA in order for them to sort out their underage structures. This is where the 'demonstratively better players' came from. This is why they've won 9 out of the last 10 Lenster championships, this is why they've won 2 All Irelands.
Mayo - Honestly I am less clear on the amount they have spent on their teams preparation but we know from the financial trouble they got into that it's not a small amount. They're spending far more than other Connacht teams that's for sure. Far more than Galway even. This has a huge part to play in their 5 in a row which could go for a lot longer.
Donegal - Fair enough they got a manager who changed their mindset but I don't think anyone can downplay the impact the financial support they got had on getting them to the top level. You can have all the tactics and systems you want but if you don't have the time to coach your players these tactics and systems then they're useless. Having full access to your players in 5 day training camps fully paid for is a huge help.
This is an amateur sport, it shouldn't be about who can attract more sponsors or it shouldn't be about being only able to compete if you have enough money to pay for professional level training set ups. It needs to change and quickly.
Quote from: thewobbler on September 03, 2015, 01:23:10 PM
So it turns out all you want is socialism.
Do you know what happens when you try to distribute everything evenly?
The greedy get a new system to exploit.
The GAA was one of the greatest socialist organisations Worldwide, time to bring it back to that.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:37:24 PM
Mayo - Honestly I am less clear on the amount they have spent on their teams preparation but we know from the financial trouble they got into that it's not a small amount. They're spending far more than other Connacht teams that's for sure. Far more than Galway even. This has a huge part to play in their 5 in a row which could go for a lot longer.
Mayo got into financial trouble because of the costs of the new Stand and lighting employed in McHale Park. Nothing to do with the County team.
Also you say they are spending much more than Galway. Where are your figures for this?
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 01:49:35 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:37:24 PM
Mayo - Honestly I am less clear on the amount they have spent on their teams preparation but we know from the financial trouble they got into that it's not a small amount. They're spending far more than other Connacht teams that's for sure. Far more than Galway even. This has a huge part to play in their 5 in a row which could go for a lot longer.
Mayo got into financial trouble because of the costs of the new Stand and lighting employed in McHale Park. Nothing to do with the County team.
Also you say they are spending much more than Galway. Where are your figures for this?
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
So how am I meant to get the figures? You still haven't answered. Like I said, we can all play dumb and pretend it isn't happening.
Money has a big part to play in the success of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin but also in the lack of success in many other counties. This has to change.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
I believe Dublin would not have a problem travelling to play Leinster Championship Matches.
They don't want to though as their vote shows. Having every match at home is a huge advantage for them and getting as much practice as possible on the pitch where all the later stages are played has been significant in their success up to know and in future times.
Of course they're not going to vote against it, turkeys don't vote for Christmas. If Mayo had the choice we'd play every match in CastleBar, that's not to say Dublin wouldn't play outside CP but it needs
To be realised by the other 11 teams!
Can't really blame Dublin on this
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:15:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 03, 2015, 01:03:58 PM
I believe Dublin would not have a problem travelling to play Leinster Championship Matches.
They don't want to though as their vote shows. Having every match at home is a huge advantage for them and getting as much practice as possible on the pitch where all the later stages are played has been significant in their success up to know and in future times.
Of course they're not going to vote against it, turkeys don't vote for Christmas. If Mayo had the choice we'd play every match in CastleBar, that's not to say Dublin wouldn't play outside CP but it needs
To be realised by the other 11 teams!
Can't really blame Dublin on this
There's only one county that consistently votes against dublin having all their games at home, the rest have to sort themselves out. This is irrelevant to the main topic of the thread however.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
So how am I meant to get the figures? You still haven't answered. Like I said, we can all play dumb and pretend it isn't happening.
Money has a big part to play in the success of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin but also in the lack of success in many other counties. This has to change.
First of all you are the one making the claim. I am disputing it where you say that Mayo spend significantly more than Galway and that it is why Mayo got into bother financially. As I told you it was because of the new stand and lighting in McHale park which cost over 10 million and was built in the boom. That is the number one factor why they got into bother financially. Anything else pales into insignificance.
So you cannot make a simply ridiculous claim without any sort of backup that Mayo are spending way more than Galway. Well obviously you can make any spurious claim you like but I dispute it and I give you the facts to argue my side.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
So how am I meant to get the figures? You still haven't answered. Like I said, we can all play dumb and pretend it isn't happening.
Money has a big part to play in the success of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin but also in the lack of success in many other counties. This has to change.
Leo, would you accept that it's unlikely that Mayo and Donegal are spending to the same degree as Kerry and Dublin?
If you do accept that would you then accept that Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone , Cork and Armagh are all probably spending similar amounts?
Given that we don't know the figures I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.
Given all that it shows that it's not just money, it's structures and professional processes.
Mayo had a five year plan which although shelved actually was partially implemented, we had a very professional manager come in (likewise with Donegal) and we had an exceptional group of players (likewise with Donegal).
Looking at the other teams they seem to be missing the structure in some counties (Galway, Cork, Kdare, Meath) and the players in others (Armagh, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare, Cork)
So I agree money is needed but it's not just that.
Kerry Group and AIG are publicly listed companies with their financial statements freely available and the stock holders calling the shots so if either company were paying anything but the going rate for sponsoring a team with their particular public profile the stock holders would be up in arms.
Since 2000, the games Kerry have played in Croke Park have generated over €100 million in ticket sales alone, so any money the GAA give to Kerry the GAA get serious ROI back.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:28:28 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
So how am I meant to get the figures? You still haven't answered. Like I said, we can all play dumb and pretend it isn't happening.
Money has a big part to play in the success of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin but also in the lack of success in many other counties. This has to change.
First of all you are the one making the claim. I am disputing it where you say that Mayo spend significantly more than Galway and that it is why Mayo got into bother financially. As I told you it was because of the new stand and lighting in McHale park which cost over 10 million and was built in the boom. That is the number one factor why they got into bother financially. Anything else pales into insignificance.
So you cannot make a simply ridiculous claim without any sort of backup that Mayo are spending way more than Galway. Well obviously you can make any spurious claim you like but I dispute it and I give you the facts to argue my side.
Are Mayo people as touchy on this subject as the Dubs? It's not all about Mayo, it's about finance in every county. Mayo got into a little bit of trouble with the stadium but they also spend a lot on their county teams preparation. No I don't have the exact figures and yes you can pretend they spend very little but I don't like playing silly games. We know they are spending far more than Galway and other Connacht teams.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:28:54 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:01:34 PM
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 01:59:27 PM
I've already asked you how am I supposed to get the figures? We can all play dumb and pretend that this team isn't spending this amount or that team is spendng more but that's foolng nobody.
Well if you can't get any figures then stop making a silly claim. Back it up with facts. Then people may begin to listen.
So how am I meant to get the figures? You still haven't answered. Like I said, we can all play dumb and pretend it isn't happening.
Money has a big part to play in the success of Mayo, Kerry and Dublin but also in the lack of success in many other counties. This has to change.
Leo, would you accept that it's unlikely that Mayo and Donegal are spending to the same degree as Kerry and Dublin?
If you do accept that would you then accept that Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone , Cork and Armagh are all probably spending similar amounts?
Given that we don't know the figures I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.
Given all that it shows that it's not just money, it's structures and professional processes.
Mayo had a five year plan which although shelved actually was partially implemented, we had a very professional manager come in (likewise with Donegal) and we had an exceptional group of players (likewise with Donegal).
Looking at the other teams they seem to be missing the structure in some counties (Galway, Cork, Kdare, Meath) and the players in others (Armagh, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare, Cork)
So I agree money is needed but it's not just that.
Dublin are well out in front in the spending stakes followed by Kerry, yes I agree they're a good bit ahead of the rest.
It's not just money but it has a huge part to play in the widening gap between the top teams and the rest. I don't want to make this about any individual county. We'll get bogged down in lads trying to protect their own. Finance has had a huge impact in the success of various teams, this is a fact and this is what needs to be looked at.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:28:54 PM
Leo, would you accept that it's unlikely that Mayo and Donegal are spending to the same degree as Kerry and Dublin?
If you do accept that would you then accept that Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone , Cork and Armagh are all probably spending similar amounts?
Given that we don't know the figures I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.
Given all that it shows that it's not just money, it's structures and professional processes.
Mayo had a five year plan which although shelved actually was partially implemented, we had a very professional manager come in (likewise with Donegal) and we had an exceptional group of players (likewise with Donegal).
Looking at the other teams they seem to be missing the structure in some counties (Galway, Cork, Kdare, Meath) and the players in others (Armagh, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare, Cork)
So I agree money is needed but it's not just that.
That is more on the money (pardon the pun). Kerry and Dublin have significantly more resources than any other County. Lets look at
Dublin first.
Massive Gate receipts. Huge Sponsorship from a number of benefactors. Always play at home so players, coaches, trainers all teams, supporters etc don't have the cost burden of traveling for training and/or staying in a different remote location. Huge payback, costs and savings here I would say.
Kerry
Sponsored by Kerry Group which is valued at what - several billion? A couple million a year is not that much to them. Anyway here's a story about the Kerry U16s. They were training hard this year and to help get them to peak fitness they got that gear (see Tyrone wearing it e.g. Cavanaghs back) to monitor distance and other stuff. I understand it's not cheap but maybe it is? Anyway - the U16s won the All Ireland. But this was the girls U-16 team. Moral of the story is that if this is what they have available for U-16 girls - well you can only imagine what is available at Senior mens inter-county.
Well I talk about Mayo because that's what I know. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.
The point is there are a group of teams behind Kerry and Dublin that have similar funding, some of those are competing and others aren't. That means funding isn't the only metric for success.
Having said all that I think Mayo could easily drop off if they had a bad year/manager/run of results and I wouldn't be overly confident that they'd be back (likewise with Donegal) but surely this has always been the case?
It's time for Offaly, Laois and in particular Meath and Kildare to stand up and be counted in Leinster
Quote from: blanketattack on September 03, 2015, 02:39:29 PM
Kerry Group and AIG are publicly listed companies with their financial statements freely available and the stock holders calling the shots so if either company were paying anything but the going rate for sponsoring a team with their particular public profile the stock holders would be up in arms.
Since 2000, the games Kerry have played in Croke Park have generated over €100 million in ticket sales alone, so any money the GAA give to Kerry the GAA get serious ROI back.
Obviously everyone is getting very defensive over this. Kerry don't just get their finance from Kerry Group or the GAA, before you ask no I don't have the exact figures or anything but denying this would be treating us like fools.
This isn't about knocking counties or anything, this is about trying to make the game fair for all. The game is dying in some counties, it will end up with 8 teams or so competing just like hurling. Is this what people want?
It can't always be the establishments fault though, counties have to stand up and be counted as well.
We spent the 70s without a Connacht title FFS and it could happen again!
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 02:49:01 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:28:54 PM
Leo, would you accept that it's unlikely that Mayo and Donegal are spending to the same degree as Kerry and Dublin?
If you do accept that would you then accept that Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone , Cork and Armagh are all probably spending similar amounts?
Given that we don't know the figures I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.
Given all that it shows that it's not just money, it's structures and professional processes.
Mayo had a five year plan which although shelved actually was partially implemented, we had a very professional manager come in (likewise with Donegal) and we had an exceptional group of players (likewise with Donegal).
Looking at the other teams they seem to be missing the structure in some counties (Galway, Cork, Kdare, Meath) and the players in others (Armagh, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare, Cork)
So I agree money is needed but it's not just that.
That is more on the money (pardon the pun). Kerry and Dublin have significantly more resources than any other County. Lets look at
Dublin first.
Massive Gate receipts. Huge Sponsorship from a number of benefactors. Always play at home so players, coaches, trainers all teams, supporters etc don't have the cost burden of traveling for training and/or staying in a different remote location. Huge payback, costs and savings here here I would say.
Kerry
Sponsored by Kerry Group which is valued at what - several billion? A couple million a year is not that much to them. Anyway here's a story about the Kerry U16s. They were training hard this year and to help get them to peak fitness they got that gear (see Tyrone wearing it e.g. Cavanaghs back) to monitor distance and other stuff. I understand it's not cheap but maybe it is? Anyway - the U16s won the All Ireland. But this was the girls U-16 team. Moral of the story is that if this is what they have available for U-16 girls - well you can only imagine what is available at Senior mens inter-county.
We all know Dublin and Kerry are way out in front of this but let's not getting into a game of throwing muck at eachother. Finance needs to be sorted countrywide, from those who are spending too much to those who haven't got two pennies to rub together.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
Well I talk about Mayo because that's what I know. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.
The point is there are a group of teams behind Kerry and Dublin that have similar funding, some of those are competing and others aren't. That means funding isn't the only metric for success.
Having said all that I think Mayo could easily drop off if they had a bad year/manager/run of results and I wouldn't be overly confident that they'd be back (likewise with Donegal) but surely this has always been the case?
It's time for Offaly, Laois and in particular Meath and Kildare to stand up and be counted in Leinster
That's what I'm saying, counties need to stand together on this. No point getting dragged down in who's spending what although some of it is crazy. It's not just one province that needs to stand together either and it's us ordinary members who elect our officials so we have to make our voice heard.
Money in the game is an absolute issue and HQ needs to try to put a CAP or some form of control on this so there is some form of level playing ground. I know this is socialism but look at AMerican football and the AFL in the most capitalist countries in the world they in effect have CAPs and structures to ensure there is continuous auto leveling Even here in little old Cavan the senior setup are having to get Third Parties to fund major elements. While the county board is spending 500K on all teams so when it broken down the senior setup does not get anything like some other counties. A lot of other funds are coming in via business people a classic example our weekend away in New York funded by a group of people. A lot of funding in Cavan went into U21 and that made a difference, Training weekends / proper food different speacilist coaches etc. Jimbo in Donegal had to sort out funding to win an All -Ireland. Team number 4 this year also has a very good fund raising structure as do some other counties. So rather than the key factor being Players / ability etc suddenly it becomes about having the funding structure right. Ultimately there is now a Funding Arms war starting to happen in football if we want to keep our ethos. Then something has to be stopped or we just go semi- pro and get on with it. Somehow / somewhere I do not believe we want to go pro so HQ needs to step in and start levelling the field somehow. I think proper controls on the background teams and real enforcement would be a start. Player expenses are controlled so now the Mind Managers and Mentors and Training camps etc need control. Or we just say grand Ulster is the only province that is competitive. Roscommon have funding structures in place so they will come, Cork surely will shoot the dinosaur that is stopping it in that county and then we will just see which county will spend oevr a Million and buy an All Ireland.
Note: this is not meant to be a criticism of any county, In the GAA what happens is you play just enough outside the rules to not get caught. SO at the mooment fair play to Tyrone supporters club, Cute Kerry Hoors in New York, Dublin with AIG, Jimbo getting concerned citizens involved etc. But, what is happening now is just not fair. Look at "Strong" football counties and see how they are now being left behind eg Meath, Galway, Cork . I do not think any genuine GAA person who works in a club want to see Money becoming the big thing at county level. Otherwise this will come to the parish (already at Senior Level in lots of counties) ultimately this will destroy the very thing that makes us give of our free time and Volunteer.
Do we all want to see Mind Doctors, 30 Man Background teams, Speacilist GYM monkeys taking the good out of the whole thing eg Cavan trained at my club last Year counted over 20 Background People. A lot of these lads giving freely of time so other "experts" could gain
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.
2011 Census - Mayo 131,000, Donegal 160,000. ;)
All Counties' sponsorships could have 50% hived off to a special "equalisation fund". However we'd likely then see very small amounts being openly given as sponsorship and all sorts of hidden extras e.g paying for training camps or bus hire, hotel hire etc etc etc
In the murky world of outside financing of things GAA we'll never know how much flows to different Counties.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2015, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.
2011 Census - Mayo 131,000, Donegal 160,000. ;)
Exactly, almost double!
Sorry, my bad, for some reason I thought we were 95k
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2015, 03:55:51 PM
All Counties' sponsorships could have 50% hived off to a special "equalisation fund". However we'd likely then see very small amounts being openly given as sponsorship and all sorts of hidden extras e.g paying for training camps or bus hire, hotel hire etc etc etc
In the murky world of outside financing of things GAA we'll never know how much flows to different Counties.
It's not hard to imagine the Kerry County Board suddenly receiving 'sponsorship' in the form of head a cattle.
Mayo spending on Senior Football team was as follows in 2014:
Travel €438k
Catering €084k
Medical €064K
Gear €024k
Total €610K (down from €646k in 2013)
Total income of County Board €2.124million Expenditure €2.045 million Surplus €79k
Source: Mayo GAA audited accounts 2014. Available in detail on Official Mayo GAA Website
My last post on this subject until after we're out of championship or it's over.
I agree it should be a more level playing field but I don't see how you implement it. If counties have the money they will spend it if it has a chance of garnering success. If you try and limit these amounts it will just drive the money underground but it will still be spent regardless. And it won't effect the outcome of the championship or help lesser counties.
Kerry and Dublin will still come through as will the other stalwarts if the players are available. Other changes need to be made including re-structure of the League maybe and defo pushing Dublin out of Croker for a change. Leinster has died a death.
As to Mayo well the good times won't last forever with us. And we know it. So we enjoy this success while we can. hopefully the team can get what they deserve out of it for all the guts and determination they have shown to keep coming back through all the heartache they have suffered.
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
My last post on this subject until after we're out of championship or it's over.
I agree it should be a more level playing field but I don't see how you implement it. If counties have the money they will spend it if it has a chance of garnering success. If you try and limit these amounts it will just drive the money underground but it will still be spent regardless. And it won't effect the outcome of the championship or help lesser counties.
Kerry and Dublin will still come through as will the other stalwarts if the players are available. Other changes need to be made including re-structure of the League maybe and defo pushing Dublin out of Croker for a change. Leinster has died a death.
As to Mayo well the good times won't last forever with us. And we know it. So we enjoy this success while we can. hopefully the team can get what they deserve out of it for all the guts and determination they have shown to keep coming back through all the heartache they have suffered.
Please don't equate hard to police with impossible to police. Many sports throughout the world have spending caps. American pro sports do it very effectively.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on September 03, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
Mayo spending on Senior Football team was as follows in 2014:
Travel €438k
Catering €084k
Medical €064K
Gear €024k
Total €610K (down from €646k in 2013)
Total income of County Board €2.124million Expenditure €2.045 million Surplus €79k
Source: Mayo GAA audited accounts 2014. Available in detail on Official Mayo GAA Website
Officially...
Whether you like him or not, Teo is largely correct on this. Without having figures to hand, I'd wager that the top spending counties are the most successful - Mayo, Dublin, kerry, Donegal, cork, tyrone. It's not the only reason (some counties spend plenty but waste it and aren't successful) but it's certainly contributory and some effort should be made to level the playing field.
Now the figures would need to be standardised to compare counties including:
- No of clubs in the county (the higher the number, the more money you'd need obviously)
- Size of the county (the further you have to travel, the more you'd need to spend)
- How far you go in the league / championship in a given year (literally!! If you have more long distance away games, it costs more than a home game or local derby)
- How much you raise from your supporters club (if one county is well-organised, they shouldn't have to pay for a county who doesn't make any effort)
Then you'd need to consider benefit in kind that would inevitably come into play if a spending cap was introduced, how would it be policed?
It's certainly doable but I can't see much will to change at present tbh
Where do Monaghan and Cork as Division 1 teams fit into the money is required to be a serious team argument?
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 04:34:29 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 03, 2015, 03:55:51 PM
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on September 03, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.
2011 Census - Mayo 131,000, Donegal 160,000. ;)
Exactly, almost double!
Sorry, my bad, for some reason I thought we were 95k
Plus Ballagh
Quote from: twohands!!! on September 03, 2015, 08:45:39 PM
Where do Monaghan and Cork as Division 1 teams fit into the money is required to be a serious team argument?
They are not serious teams though.
Quote from: Teo Lurley on September 03, 2015, 11:18:13 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on September 03, 2015, 11:14:42 AM
Is Ulster not worth a mention >:(
I was giving the Ulster boyos a pass but you still complain. :) There's reasons I wont be mentioning British funding.
The Queen's Shilling will be somewhat frowned upon but always accepted.
Quote from: comeysfield on September 03, 2015, 02:59:09 PM
Money in the game is an absolute issue and HQ needs to try to put a CAP or some form of control on this so there is some form of level playing ground. I know this is socialism but look at AMerican football and the AFL in the most capitalist countries in the world they in effect have CAPs and structures to ensure there is continuous auto leveling Even here in little old Cavan the senior setup are having to get Third Parties to fund major elements. While the county board is spending 500K on all teams so when it broken down the senior setup does not get anything like some other counties. A lot of other funds are coming in via business people a classic example our weekend away in New York funded by a group of people. A lot of funding in Cavan went into U21 and that made a difference, Training weekends / proper food different speacilist coaches etc. Jimbo in Donegal had to sort out funding to win an All -Ireland. Team number 4 this year also has a very good fund raising structure as do some other counties. So rather than the key factor being Players / ability etc suddenly it becomes about having the funding structure right. Ultimately there is now a Funding Arms war starting to happen in football if we want to keep our ethos. Then something has to be stopped or we just go semi- pro and get on with it. Somehow / somewhere I do not believe we want to go pro so HQ needs to step in and start levelling the field somehow. I think proper controls on the background teams and real enforcement would be a start. Player expenses are controlled so now the Mind Managers and Mentors and Training camps etc need control. Or we just say grand Ulster is the only province that is competitive. Roscommon have funding structures in place so they will come, Cork surely will shoot the dinosaur that is stopping it in that county and then we will just see which county will spend oevr a Million and buy an All Ireland.
Note: this is not meant to be a criticism of any county, In the GAA what happens is you play just enough outside the rules to not get caught. SO at the mooment fair play to Tyrone supporters club, Cute Kerry Hoors in New York, Dublin with AIG, Jimbo getting concerned citizens involved etc. But, what is happening now is just not fair. Look at "Strong" football counties and see how they are now being left behind eg Meath, Galway, Cork . I do not think any genuine GAA person who works in a club want to see Money becoming the big thing at county level. Otherwise this will come to the parish (already at Senior Level in lots of counties) ultimately this will destroy the very thing that makes us give of our free time and Volunteer.
Do we all want to see Mind Doctors, 30 Man Background teams, Speacilist GYM monkeys taking the good out of the whole thing eg Cavan trained at my club last Year counted over 20 Background People. A lot of these lads giving freely of time so other "experts" could gain
That's the post I was going to post. As I said before, the GAA at the moment is like the Klondyke. Professional sports (a) see the need for financing caps in order to maintain competitiveness and credibility and prevent the outright purchase of championships and titles and (b) make them work more or less effectively. Surely it's even more important for amateur sport to have such controls and even easier for it to implement them.
Reading Mayo county board returns over the last few years it would be a conservative estimate that 750k per annum was spent on the preparation of their football teams, compare that to Roscommons total spent for 2014 of 197k and that is the total spend of the county board, I do not know Galway figures so I cannot comment.
When there is money about players get "looked after" and also have better training facilities etc, fair play to Mayo they have returned well for the spend and were unlucky not to land the big one and may well do so next year, they have spent their money well and their team have been probably the best prepared team over the last five years, but lesser counties cannot compete, now some might say you cant train an ass to win the derby but before the money came in to it smaller teams were not getting as consistently trashed as they are now, yes there were some bad beatings but the top 3 teams have just moved onto another level, not their fault and fair play to them, Im fairly sure these top teams would prefer proper challenges coming from other counties and its up to the gaa to find a solution to this, its a serious challenge and must be addressed. Great post and great thread Teo Lurley.
You heard it here first. Roman Abramovic watched the hurling AI final and AI football between Mayo and Dublin and has been raving about GAA ever since.
He has enquired as to the quickest way to get involved and sponsor a team with drug money, free prostitutes and gambling revenue. Having found Dublin have the sport all sewn up in this regard he's turning his attention to London with plans for an AI win in 2016 having greased palms in GAA HQ and Sunday Game panellists in the same way as the Dubs have but with more late night 'entertainment' in Lillies and Coppers as well as free vodka and blood money.
Pat Spillane is said to be ready to ride a bear in Moscow while Joe Brolly will ride a cow anywhere if Roman's roubles are right.
Quote from: mrhardyannual on September 03, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
Mayo spending on Senior Football team was as follows in 2014:
Travel €438k
Catering €084k
Medical €064K
Gear €024k
Total €610K (down from €646k in 2013)
Total income of County Board €2.124million Expenditure €2.045 million Surplus €79k
Source: Mayo GAA audited accounts 2014. Available in detail on Official Mayo GAA Website
It's interesting that people are able to find these stats for Mayo. Are they available for the other counties as well particularly Kerry, Dublin, Donegal, Cork, Ross, Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone ?
Ros ones were at last Convention so someone might have them lying about.
However official Co Board figures hardly tell the full story in many Counties.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 18, 2015, 12:21:15 PM
Ros ones were at last Convention so someone might have them lying about.
However official Co Board figures hardly tell the full story in many Counties.
True - but it's somwhere to start
Quote from: Syferus on September 03, 2015, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Nihilist on September 03, 2015, 05:48:39 PM
My last post on this subject until after we're out of championship or it's over.
I agree it should be a more level playing field but I don't see how you implement it. If counties have the money they will spend it if it has a chance of garnering success. If you try and limit these amounts it will just drive the money underground but it will still be spent regardless. And it won't effect the outcome of the championship or help lesser counties.
Kerry and Dublin will still come through as will the other stalwarts if the players are available. Other changes need to be made including re-structure of the League maybe and defo pushing Dublin out of Croker for a change. Leinster has died a death.
As to Mayo well the good times won't last forever with us. And we know it. So we enjoy this success while we can. hopefully the team can get what they deserve out of it for all the guts and determination they have shown to keep coming back through all the heartache they have suffered.
Please don't equate hard to police with impossible to police. Many sports throughout the world have spending caps. American pro sports do it very effectively.
You hit the nail on the head there . PRO SPORTS.
GAA is not a pro sport and it doesn't have the same governance at all.
Also - County Boards run each County and anyone coming in from outside to tell then how to do it can go and s**te. Similar to Provincial setup. The national setup has no holds over the provincial setup which is one of the main blockers to putting in any type of alternative framework for the "stale" championship. (But that's a different debate and thread)
Also don't forget that just because you have a spending cap in pro sports doesn't mean that there aren't ways around it. In American pro sports how much money is spent on trading players between teams prior to and during a professional season. This is currently not allowed in our sport (technically anyway).
Personally speaking money won't kill the game as much as the game will kill itself.
The need to develop and train like professionals is spreading down through the ranks at all levels. It will affect it too ways - 1) players won't commit to this and will disappear from the game to play other more socialable sports with less pressure and more certainty of games/training etc; and 2) Good players will be used and abused from early age if they show potential and when/if they don't make it at high level they will walk away from the game or be forced away through injury/burnout etc.
They pulling and dragging of players for all the talk of burnout is only going one direction. Development squads seem to be starting earlier with bigger numbers and pull players into a county set up. We've had constant issues all year with players missing club training cause they have county training, injuries picked up from training hours on end, county training the day after games, etc etc And this is at U14 level!
Its shooting fish in a barrel for these development squads - start with 50 players and whittle them down over the years until they get 2/3 senior county players from it. You are left with frustrated and burn-out players who have been lead down a county path and are now left with out this. There is a benefit of these squads but at what cost. They have pulled players from clubs all summer and now its the same with school teams.
Monaghan Minor panel for 2016 are actually training these past few weeks. Crazy stuff and they has started before the minor championships and leagues where finished. These same players will now be starting off back with school teams as well.
Its madness and no sign of anything serious been done about it.
You can talk to players about it but they want to do everything and won't say no at that age.
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Kerry, Donegal and Mayo seem to be very adept at raising money alright, as do the Dubs. But the GAA is one of the Dubs main contributers, which I think is the issue a lot of people would have. In 2014 the GAA gave 1.4 million to Dublin for games development, and gave 40k to Donegal and Mayo, and 42k to Kerry.
I don't have an issue with Dublin's vodafone deal, more power to them, but I do think the GAA has to look at whether it's fair to provide so much games development funding to one county, especially when that county is relatively flush with those external deals.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Why does Kerry, Donegal and Mayo's finances need to be under the spotlight?
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Why does Kerry, Donegal and Mayo's finances need to be under the spotlight?
Who do you need to ask that question?
How much do Kerry get annually from Kerry group? why do Kerry underage ladies teams have GPS systems use at u-16 level?
Why arnt Kildare's finances under the spotlight with their full time highly paid manager a few years ago? Multible thousands while the players themselves had to go out and fund raise and manually build their own gym.
Why with Mayo having 13 million in the bank did the GAA bail out Castlebar stadium?
Why are Donegal players 1, getting helicopters to training 2. some players being able to become full time athletes by leaving their jobs 3. getting multiple training camps every year 4. using a professional soccer club for rehab and facilities?
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Why does Kerry, Donegal and Mayo's finances need to be under the spotlight?
Who do you need to ask that question?
How much do Kerry get annually from Kerry group? why do Kerry underage ladies teams have GPS systems use at u-16 level?
Why arnt Kildare's finances under the spotlight with their full time highly paid manager a few years ago? Multible thousands while the players themselves had to go out and fund raise and manually build their own gym.
Why with Mayo having 13 million in the bank did the GAA bail out Castlebar stadium?
Why are Donegal players 1, getting helicopters to training 2. some players being able to become full time athletes by leaving their jobs 3. getting multiple training camps every year 4. using a professional soccer club for rehab and facilities?
Oh right, it's just I've been told by Dublin people that money hasn't had anything to do with them winning 3 out of the last 5 All Irelands. It seems that you think it does.
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Why does Kerry, Donegal and Mayo's finances need to be under the spotlight?
Who do you need to ask that question?
How much do Kerry get annually from Kerry group? why do Kerry underage ladies teams have GPS systems use at u-16 level?
Why arnt Kildare's finances under the spotlight with their full time highly paid manager a few years ago? Multible thousands while the players themselves had to go out and fund raise and manually build their own gym.
Why with Mayo having 13 million in the bank did the GAA bail out Castlebar stadium?
Why are Donegal players 1, getting helicopters to training 2. some players being able to become full time athletes by leaving their jobs 3. getting multiple training camps every year 4. using a professional soccer club for rehab and facilities?
Oh right, it's just I've been told by Dublin people that money hasn't had anything to do with them winning 3 out of the last 5 All Irelands. It seems that you think it does.
Dublin have been in plenty of finals since the 50s, lost more than won, now Dublin are winning, Dublin have a good team, it wont last for ever, just like Tyrone's 00s team, but people just cant take it that Dublin have more naturally gifted footballers in the country and far more than Kerry and play the beautiful game changing the game for the better. It will be a long winter in the minds of the anti-dub brigade.
Ah come off it.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 04:43:59 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 04:32:22 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 03:54:28 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Ranga on September 28, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 12:20:54 PM
Another big fundraiser for Kerry, I believe that will make it 6 million from New York, 1 million from London, ?? Millions from the Kerry Group ( One of the most profitable companies in the world).
Its and old article but I haven't seen it mentioned.
http://irishpost.co.uk/kerry-stars-head-to-london-to-help-e1million-fundraising-push-for-gaa-centre-of-excellence/
7 million ;D The Dubs use that as toilet roll!
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Kerry need to be under the same spotlight, as well as Donegal, Mayo etc.
Why does Kerry, Donegal and Mayo's finances need to be under the spotlight?
Who do you need to ask that question?
How much do Kerry get annually from Kerry group? why do Kerry underage ladies teams have GPS systems use at u-16 level?
Why arnt Kildare's finances under the spotlight with their full time highly paid manager a few years ago? Multible thousands while the players themselves had to go out and fund raise and manually build their own gym.
Why with Mayo having 13 million in the bank did the GAA bail out Castlebar stadium?
Why are Donegal players 1, getting helicopters to training 2. some players being able to become full time athletes by leaving their jobs 3. getting multiple training camps every year 4. using a professional soccer club for rehab and facilities?
Oh right, it's just I've been told by Dublin people that money hasn't had anything to do with them winning 3 out of the last 5 All Irelands. It seems that you think it does.
Dublin have been in plenty of finals since the 50s, lost more than won, now Dublin are winning, Dublin have a good team, it wont last for ever, just like Tyrone's 00s team, but people just cant take it that Dublin have more naturally gifted footballers in the country and far more than Kerry and play the beautiful game changing the game for the better. It will be a long winter in the minds of the anti-dub brigade.
So wait, does money matter or does it not? :D
4 million by AIG would matter I'd say.
It seems the purity of the Volk is the most important thing.
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 28, 2015, 02:36:18 PM
I think your getting confused, I was talking about Kerry, Dublin's finances has been well documented a couple of dozens times on this site.
Maybe for the purpose of the thread you could refresh everyone's mind on Dublin's finances and what they spend?
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
QuoteTwo years ago, outside of Jim Gavin and his selectors, Dublin had 14 backroom team members. That number has wavered little since. It was similar size when the county weren't winning All-Irelands under Paul Caffrey but the point is Dublin are the Texas of Gaelic football: where everything is bigger and often better.
It's known, for example, that they provide match-day expenses for the partners of their players.
Hmmm...
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
QuoteTwo years ago, outside of Jim Gavin and his selectors, Dublin had 14 backroom team members. That number has wavered little since. It was similar size when the county weren't winning All-Irelands under Paul Caffrey but the point is Dublin are the Texas of Gaelic football: where everything is bigger and often better.
It's known, for example, that they provide match-day expenses for the partners of their players.
Hmmm...
Why do I get the feeling that match-day expenses incorporate more than a complimentary match ticket and a burger and a pint?
So how much are Dublin's "match day expenses" and how much are everyone else's?
There is a remarkable lack of facts and sources on this thread, despite some wild claims.
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 24, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
QuoteTwo years ago, outside of Jim Gavin and his selectors, Dublin had 14 backroom team members. That number has wavered little since. It was similar size when the county weren't winning All-Irelands under Paul Caffrey but the point is Dublin are the Texas of Gaelic football: where everything is bigger and often better.
It's known, for example, that they provide match-day expenses for the partners of their players.
Hmmm...
Why do I get the feeling that match-day expenses incorporate more than a complimentary match ticket and a burger and a pint?
Well the way Fogarty wrote it is designed to give you that feeling.
"provide match day meals for championship games" would be less dramatic. Saying they give them expenses could lead the easily led to think the girls get cash to keep the lads happy. Sure it's no wonder we've won 3 All Irelands in the last few years!
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 24, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
QuoteTwo years ago, outside of Jim Gavin and his selectors, Dublin had 14 backroom team members. That number has wavered little since. It was similar size when the county weren't winning All-Irelands under Paul Caffrey but the point is Dublin are the Texas of Gaelic football: where everything is bigger and often better.
It's known, for example, that they provide match-day expenses for the partners of their players.
Hmmm...
Why do I get the feeling that match-day expenses incorporate more than a complimentary match ticket and a burger and a pint?
Well the way Fogarty wrote it is designed to give you that feeling.
"provide match day meals for championship games" would be less dramatic. Saying they give them expenses could lead the easily led to think the girls get cash to keep the lads happy. Sure it's no wonder we've won 3 All Irelands in the last few years!
That's a different thing entirely!
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2015, 03:01:44 PM
So how much are Dublin's "match day expenses" and how much are everyone else's?
Considering Dublin play at home every Championship game, you'd expect them to be considerably less, wouldn't you? As Fogarty alludes to however you never get a detailed breakdown of expenditure.
QuoteSure it's no wonder we've won 3 All Irelands in the last few years!
That can be simply re-framed as how many All-Irelands would you have won without all your financial and home advantages? Hypothetically if Dublin had to compete on the same budget as Leitrim and play at least 3 championship games away from CP, how many All-Irelands do you think they would have won?
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 03:12:36 PM
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on November 24, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
QuoteTwo years ago, outside of Jim Gavin and his selectors, Dublin had 14 backroom team members. That number has wavered little since. It was similar size when the county weren't winning All-Irelands under Paul Caffrey but the point is Dublin are the Texas of Gaelic football: where everything is bigger and often better.
It's known, for example, that they provide match-day expenses for the partners of their players.
Hmmm...
Why do I get the feeling that match-day expenses incorporate more than a complimentary match ticket and a burger and a pint?
Well the way Fogarty wrote it is designed to give you that feeling.
"provide match day meals for championship games" would be less dramatic. Saying they give them expenses could lead the easily led to think the girls get cash to keep the lads happy. Sure it's no wonder we've won 3 All Irelands in the last few years!
So it's just a ticket for the middle of the Hogan and a meal in the Gibson? They have to make their own way back and forth? The odd night over?
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
He spends the first part of the article saying how the draft system helps equalize things in NFL and Aussie Rules, but then dismisses it for GAA (why even bring it up if its an impossibility??, but I suppose he had column inches to fill)
But I'm not sure it is an altogether impossibility.
What if the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc. were told they had to pick a panel for the year one week before the league starts. Let's say 25-28 players over 21, along with any U21s they have. Any player over 21 who doesn't make the panel is free to enter the annual draft, where any of the 10-15 "weaker" counties can enter if they like - and the order is chosen based on some ranking system that someone can come up with.
Would say a Longford or an Offaly be interested in picking up lads that have been overlooked by the Dubs? For example, halfback Darragh Nelson and midfielder Declan O'Mahony are among the better known lads playing really well for Ballyboden at the moment, but highly unlikely to figure for the Dubs. St Vincents have a heap of strong players who can't get a look in.
Players would receive proper expenses, and all such additional costs funded centrally.
Not sure whether many players would have the appetitie for it. Their clubs would be dead against it, no doubt.
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 01:35:11 PM
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/john-fogarty/john-fogarty-how-the-gaa-can-level-the-playing-field-366701.html)
He spends the first part of the article saying how the draft system helps equalize things in NFL and Aussie Rules, but then dismisses it for GAA (why even bring it up if its an impossibility??, but I suppose he had column inches to fill)
But I'm not sure it is an altogether impossibility.
What if the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc. were told they had to pick a panel for the year one week before the league starts. Let's say 25-28 players over 21, along with any U21s they have. Any player over 21 who doesn't make the panel is free to enter the annual draft, where any of the 10-15 "weaker" counties can enter if they like - and the order is chosen based on some ranking system that someone can come up with.
Would say a Longford or an Offaly be interested in picking up lads that have been overlooked by the Dubs? For example, halfback Darragh Nelson and midfielder Declan O'Mahony are among the better known lads playing really well for Ballyboden at the moment, but highly unlikely to figure for the Dubs. St Vincents have a heap of strong players who can't get a look in.
Players would receive proper expenses, and all such additional costs funded centrally.
Not sure whether many players would have the appetitie for it. Their clubs would be dead against it, no doubt.
That's a professional system I can't see that working. Would those lads want to ply their trade for a Longford or Offaly and all the travel etc. unless they were getting paid? I can't see it!! I agree with you his point about the draft isn't really a point unless we have free movement of players in a professional system.
The other point about the GAA centrally negotiating contracts for jerseys/sponsorship etc. is slightly more relevant but doesn't make sense either I don't think. Dublin and other countries are still going to have their high performance centres etc. Then you how do you police the extra funding Dublin and other Counties like Donegal/Kerry/Mayo get that's not included in official accounts?
It's admirable to try and think of ways to even up the score for the weaker counties but the article is just that... weak! It wouldn't surprise me if the Dub WAGs get a few bob following the lads around but the point is a bit useless and hyperbolic without any back up for it and just gives the Dubs another case to say the media are picking on them!!!
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
But I'm not sure it is an altogether impossibility.
What if the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc. were told they had to pick a panel for the year one week before the league starts. Let's say 25-28 players over 21, along with any U21s they have. Any player over 21 who doesn't make the panel is free to enter the annual draft, where any of the 10-15 "weaker" counties can enter if they like - and the order is chosen based on some ranking system that someone can come up with.
Two problems with this:
1. There are a lot of good to great players who will not give the commitment to a weaker county. Why would a under 21 from a stronger county give his time?
2. Players who give their time to a weaker county are getting inter-county experience. They may improve and go back to the stronger county. Meanwhile the weaker county have blooded a player for a strong county and lost time in developing a player of their own.
Not enough money is ruining the game in a lot of counties
Rural counties need coaching and development plans, full time GDAs on the ground promoting the games (ALL GAMES!) in schools and clubs across each county, more developmental style games for U8 - U13, more coaching courses and workshops for aspiring coaches.
Too much money being wasted on county teams, expensive managers for very little return and blown on centres of excellence and white elephant stadiums
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 24, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
But I'm not sure it is an altogether impossibility.
What if the likes of Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc. were told they had to pick a panel for the year one week before the league starts. Let's say 25-28 players over 21, along with any U21s they have. Any player over 21 who doesn't make the panel is free to enter the annual draft, where any of the 10-15 "weaker" counties can enter if they like - and the order is chosen based on some ranking system that someone can come up with.
Two problems with this:
1. There are a lot of good to great players who will not give the commitment to a weaker county. Why would a under 21 from a stronger county give his time?
2. Players who give their time to a weaker county are getting inter-county experience. They may improve and go back to the stronger county.
3. Meanwhile the weaker county have blooded a player for a strong county and lost time in developing a player of their own.
1. As I'd said, only players aged over 21 would be eligible. Whether they'd like to give it a go would be up to themselves. I'm sure there'd be a few takers.
2. That's the whole idea. Its a carrott for the player, in that he might impress his home county and get onto that panel next year, and in the meantime hopefully do well for his adopted county. Just because its not his home county doesn't mean he won't give it 100%. In every other sport players play for teams they have no personal link to, although of course we don't want to go for an completely open transfer system.
3. For the weaker county, they are losing nothing. Developing their own players clearly hasn't been working well enough, they always seem a few players short. So maybe 3 imports in any one year alongside 12 homegrown players (plus subs) would help them all improve.
Just an idea. The losers, if such a plan did take hold, would be the clubs in the bigger counties who lose additional players for some club matches.
Quote from: Hound on November 25, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 24, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
1. As I'd said, only players aged over 21 would be eligible. Whether they'd like to give it a go would be up to themselves. I'm sure there'd be a few takers.
2. That's the whole idea. Its a carrott for the player, in that he might impress his home county and get onto that panel next year, and in the meantime hopefully do well for his adopted county. Just because its not his home county doesn't mean he won't give it 100%. In every other sport players play for teams they have no personal link to, although of course we don't want to go for an completely open transfer system.
3. For the weaker county, they are losing nothing. Developing their own players clearly hasn't been working well enough, they always seem a few players short. So maybe 3 imports in any one year alongside 12 homegrown players (plus subs) would help them all improve.
Just an idea. The losers, if such a plan did take hold, would be the clubs in the bigger counties who lose additional players for some club matches.
Kerry hurlers did this for the last two years. Had players from Tipperary and Clare. Finally got promoted to Div 1B for 2016, but cannot use imported players in that division. The last point about clubs losing a player was one of the conditions - if a conflict of fixtures arose, the player must play for his club. One import was lost on that rule for the final playoff game to go up (versus Antrim, I think).
It will be interesting to see how they get on in Div 1B with only home talent.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 25, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 25, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 24, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
1. As I'd said, only players aged over 21 would be eligible. Whether they'd like to give it a go would be up to themselves. I'm sure there'd be a few takers.
2. That's the whole idea. Its a carrott for the player, in that he might impress his home county and get onto that panel next year, and in the meantime hopefully do well for his adopted county. Just because its not his home county doesn't mean he won't give it 100%. In every other sport players play for teams they have no personal link to, although of course we don't want to go for an completely open transfer system.
3. For the weaker county, they are losing nothing. Developing their own players clearly hasn't been working well enough, they always seem a few players short. So maybe 3 imports in any one year alongside 12 homegrown players (plus subs) would help them all improve.
Just an idea. The losers, if such a plan did take hold, would be the clubs in the bigger counties who lose additional players for some club matches.
Kerry hurlers did this for the last two years. Had players from Tipperary and Clare. Finally got promoted to Div 1B for 2016, but cannot use imported players in that division. The last point about clubs losing a player was one of the conditions - if a conflict of fixtures arose, the player must play for his club. One import was lost on that rule for the final playoff game to go up (versus Antrim, I think).
It will be interesting to see how they get on in Div 1B with only home talent.
I don't think that was a rule, per se, I think it was up to the player. It's a lad from Tipp hurling with Kerry I think you're referring to.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on November 24, 2015, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 24, 2015, 03:01:44 PM
So how much are Dublin's "match day expenses" and how much are everyone else's?
Considering Dublin play at home every Championship game, you'd expect them to be considerably less, wouldn't you? As Fogarty alludes to however you never get a detailed breakdown of expenditure.
QuoteSure it's no wonder we've won 3 All Irelands in the last few years!
That can be simply re-framed as how many All-Irelands would you have won without all your financial and home advantages? Hypothetically if Dublin had to compete on the same budget as Leitrim and play at least 3 championship games away from CP, how many All-Irelands do you think they would have won?
Playing in a regional ground in early Leinster would have made no difference.
Regarding the Financial argument you keep making, Kildare had the most expensive setup in the country under McGeeney and couldn't win a raffle, so you draw your own conclusions.
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 25, 2015, 12:21:16 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 25, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 25, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 24, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
1. As I'd said, only players aged over 21 would be eligible. Whether they'd like to give it a go would be up to themselves. I'm sure there'd be a few takers.
2. That's the whole idea. Its a carrott for the player, in that he might impress his home county and get onto that panel next year, and in the meantime hopefully do well for his adopted county. Just because its not his home county doesn't mean he won't give it 100%. In every other sport players play for teams they have no personal link to, although of course we don't want to go for an completely open transfer system.
3. For the weaker county, they are losing nothing. Developing their own players clearly hasn't been working well enough, they always seem a few players short. So maybe 3 imports in any one year alongside 12 homegrown players (plus subs) would help them all improve.
Just an idea. The losers, if such a plan did take hold, would be the clubs in the bigger counties who lose additional players for some club matches.
Kerry hurlers did this for the last two years. Had players from Tipperary and Clare. Finally got promoted to Div 1B for 2016, but cannot use imported players in that division. The last point about clubs losing a player was one of the conditions - if a conflict of fixtures arose, the player must play for his club. One import was lost on that rule for the final playoff game to go up (versus Antrim, I think).
It will be interesting to see how they get on in Div 1B with only home talent.
I don't think that was a rule, per se, I think it was up to the player. It's a lad from Tipp hurling with Kerry I think you're referring to.
Kerry had a Clare lad and two Tipp lads, all who played their club hurling with their respective home clubs, not sure of the long term benefits of such rulings as they're now in Div1B without them, but sure they'll give it their best!
Heffo, I don't think anyone thinks that taking dublin out of croke park for the early round leinster championship matches will result in dublin losing any of those games. Dublin are too far ahead of the rest of leinster for that.
Where it could make a difference is in say an all ireland quarter final where dublin could be playing their 8th match in croke park in the year but are up against donegal (or tyrone/kerry/cork/mayo etc.) who are playing their first match there in the year. The little nuances of playing in familiar surroundings can make a big difference in a tight match.
I don't think anyone would suggest that it would turn around a 10 point margin!
And by the way, I actually think that if croke park is the only stadium big enough to take the crowd that want to go to a particular game then that's where it should be. I have no problem with dublin playing ALL their matches in Croke park, I think it is just one of those natural advantages that Dublin gain by being our capital city (and home of GAA HQ)
But don't go pretending that playing all of your matches in the same pitch is no advantage!
Quote from: AZOffaly on November 25, 2015, 12:21:16 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on November 25, 2015, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 25, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on November 24, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: Hound on November 24, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
1. As I'd said, only players aged over 21 would be eligible. Whether they'd like to give it a go would be up to themselves. I'm sure there'd be a few takers.
2. That's the whole idea. Its a carrott for the player, in that he might impress his home county and get onto that panel next year, and in the meantime hopefully do well for his adopted county. Just because its not his home county doesn't mean he won't give it 100%. In every other sport players play for teams they have no personal link to, although of course we don't want to go for an completely open transfer system.
3. For the weaker county, they are losing nothing. Developing their own players clearly hasn't been working well enough, they always seem a few players short. So maybe 3 imports in any one year alongside 12 homegrown players (plus subs) would help them all improve.
Just an idea. The losers, if such a plan did take hold, would be the clubs in the bigger counties who lose additional players for some club matches.
Kerry hurlers did this for the last two years. Had players from Tipperary and Clare. Finally got promoted to Div 1B for 2016, but cannot use imported players in that division. The last point about clubs losing a player was one of the conditions - if a conflict of fixtures arose, the player must play for his club. One import was lost on that rule for the final playoff game to go up (versus Antrim, I think).
It will be interesting to see how they get on in Div 1B with only home talent.
I don't think that was a rule, per se, I think it was up to the player. It's a lad from Tipp hurling with Kerry I think you're referring to.
It was James Logue from Tipperary senior club Ballingarry, who had a championship game against Boherlahan-Dualla in Cashel the same day as Kerry played Antrim in the playoff for Div 1B status.
Logue qualified for Kerry under rule 6.9 of the GAA Official Guide ("special eligibility provisions for hurling"). The rule also states in the event of a clash of championship fixtures between club and adopted county, the player shall line out with his club.
As Kerry v Antrim was a league game, it may be determined that the rule doesn't apply. However, technically Logue was expected to chose Ballingarry under the legal definition "expressio unius est exclusio alterius" (to express one thing is to exclude another).
The interpretation could be that as league is a lesser competition than championship, Logue was compelled to play in the latter competition.
What do you think of that for an explanation?
Yeah, that makes sense. Excellently explained :)
Excellent apart from messing up the quotes.
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Its hard to celebrate my club producing a talent like Diarmuid Connolly. No money created him. He was banging balls from 20 yards into the back of the net in the school yard as a 5 year old with both feet I might add.
Quote from: INDIANA on November 25, 2015, 07:09:51 PM
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Its hard to celebrate my club producing a talent like Diarmuid Connolly. No money created him. He was banging balls from 20 yards into the back of the net in the school yard as a 5 year old with both feet I might add.
Connolly was there when the Dubs were getting destroyed. By the way, pity your club could never teach him some discipline, on and off the pitch.
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Stop talking nonsense you clown.
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 25, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Stop talking nonsense you clown.
Kerry bought the 2014 All Ireland aswell. The counties with money are happy to leave things as they are. Why are the rest of us letting them?
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 25, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Stop talking nonsense you clown.
Kerry bought the 2014 All Ireland aswell. The counties with money are happy to leave things as they are. Why are the rest of us letting them?
Because you're shite
Quote from: INDIANA on November 25, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on November 25, 2015, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Ranga on November 25, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
At this stage only the Dubs deny that they were bought their last 3 All Irelands. The worrying thing is that they are still being bankrolled by all of us, why are we all paying for Dublin to buy success? Also, are the Dubs not a bit embarrassed by it all? It must be hard to celebrate any titles because you know it was bought and not earned.
Stop talking nonsense you clown.
Kerry bought the 2014 All Ireland aswell. The counties with money are happy to leave things as they are. Why are the rest of us letting them?
Because you're shite
This may be the only time I agree with Indy. ;D
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
Quote from: FermGael on November 25, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
What's your point ?
All doing it for their love of all things mayo
Has Joe hit the nail on the head?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-gaas-margaret-thatcher-approach-does-not-encourage-participation-34222670.html (http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-gaas-margaret-thatcher-approach-does-not-encourage-participation-34222670.html)
The reason the GAA has gotten into such a mess over the last 10 years is because we have blindly copied the professional sports model. The failure to understand the bleeding obvious fact that it has no relevance to what we do is mystifying.
It came about because of a leadership vacuum and a failure to set out a fit-for-purpose modern strategy. In this vacuum, the GPA and the cartel of vested interests (sponsors, sports psychologists, paid managers, etc) has thrived. Commercialism has become rampant and, up until now, the GAA has simply gone with the flow. The thoroughly discredited 'trickle down' philosophy has become our cornerstone.
The two most notable recent exponents of 'trickle down' were Margaret Thatcher (pause to spit on the ground), and Ronald Reagan, the fantasist and movie actor who became the US president.
Their loopy creed was that if you let the rich get richer, remove and reduce taxation and allow these tycoons to flourish like never before, their riches would somehow trickle down and improve the standard of living of the chambermaids and checkout girls. Instead, it created mass unemployment, destroyed public services and ruined social cohesion.
This idea that by focusing the rewards on the elite, it would trickle down and help everybody is the myth peddled by professional sport. When Richard Scudamore unveiled the English Premier League's new £5bn TV rights deal, he went all Deepak Chopra on it, speaking dreamily about how this would revolutionise the game and benefit everyone.
At the time of writing, only one Premier League club pays its non-footballing staff the living wage, and the most recent UK government report highlighted the fact that grassroots facilities and coaching in England is the worst in Europe.
Amazingly, the penny has not dropped with the GAA hierarchy, that encouraging elitism does not increase participation. It is of course the cornerstone of the GPA's philosophy, since they get a slice of the pie. Take the Sky deal as an example. Páraic Duffy, in good faith, took the view that this exposure would strongly promote our games.
The GPA lauded the agreement. Their spokesman, Seán Potts, enthused that the international element to the deal - with Sky Sports showing 20 matches a year in the UK and Channel 7 showing 45 in Australia (they dumped the games altogether within six months) - changed the face of what the GAA is and what it can be.
They are very fond of high-sounding phrases which are vaguely impressive but mean nothing, no doubt a by-product of all the self-help mumbo-jumbo they peddle.
Potts articulated the fallacy with the following gibberish: "The way we would see it is that any move that increases the exposure of the games and our players is very welcome. We see it as harnessing more platforms for the sport and allowing it to compete with other sports." Gobbledegook.
This perfectly illustrates the fantasy that has been at the heart of the GAA's thinking. It is a fantasy because it is an established fact that watching elite sports emphatically does not increase participation. A systematic review by the British Medical Journal after the London Olympics concluded that "there is no evidence that watching the Olympics has resulted in an increase in participation."
The House of Commons Education Select Committee reached exactly the same conclusion, deriding the idea of an 'Olympic legacy' and concluding that what stimulates participation is voluntary effort, resources, coaches and facilities. (Which is precisely what makes the GAA work.)
The point is that the obsession with the county game is entirely self-defeating. As the renowned economist Margaret Heffernan noted in her remarkable book A Bigger Prize, "Trickle down doesn't work in sport. Focusing resources, rewards and celebrity on the top few doesn't help anyone."
Before the Sydney Olympics, the usual breathless myths were repeated by the politicians and sporting bodies that this would be a massive stimulus to participation and result in a transformation in the health of the nation, blah, blah, blah.
The truth was somewhat more sobering. The 'Socio-Economic study of the impact of the 2000 Sydney Olympics' in 2001, commissioned by the Australian parliament, concluded "the only pastime that was more popular after the Games than before them was watching the TV."
The idea that Sky would somehow promote the games was repeated by the GAA hierarchy. The GPA knew the truth but went along, since they get a slice of the pie, shrewd capitalists that they are. It was of course tosh.
To a non-GAA audience, our games are a novelty like topless darts or mud wrestling. The English viewer who tweeted, 'No wonder they have two doctors behind the goalposts' said it all. My children and their friends love watching WWE on telly. This has not yet led to an explosion in wrestling in the greater Belfast area.
Participation - as noted by the House of Commons Select Committee - is increased solely by volunteer coaches, administrators and honest toil. As the GAA journalist Seán Moran wrote recently, the only way to promote the GAA is to concentrate on the clubs. The point is that we must concentrate on promoting ourselves to ourselves.
Locked into this self-defeating cycle, the leadership have lavished money on the GPA, a free-market limited company (the current deal is worth €8.75m over five years), who in turn have enriched a handful of elite players.
No wonder their recently unveiled championship format contains 40 extra games at a time when burnout and elitism is crucifying the game. The banner headline of their proposal, set out in red capitals, is "THE PROPOSED NEW STRUCTURE WILL IMPACT POSITIVELY ON THE REVENUES GENERATED FROM SENIOR INTER-COUNTY FOOTBALL COMPETITIONS" before going on to estimate the hierarchy can squeeze an extra €1.7m in revenue per annum by adopting this.
There is a chink of light. In Páraic Duffy's recently published discussion paper on rebalancing the game in favour of the clubs, he makes an admission that gives us hope.
Up until now, Páraic has followed 'trickle down'. In the report, he writes: "The important promotional value of the September All-Irelands that I advocated previously now seems to me outweighed by the magnitude of the problem of compressed and rushed club championships . . . and the unfairness of this on club players in these counties."
Again, while it might seem to the neutral observer nothing more than a statement of the bleeding obvious, it is possible that it marks the beginnings of a realisation that 'trickle down', for the GAA, is a bogus and self-defeating philosophy.
USADA's landmark 2012 report on sport in America, 'True Sport. What we stand to lose in our obsession to win', found that concentrating resources on elite athletes doesn't help anyone, encourages an unhealthy win-at-all-costs philosophy and has dramatic negative effects on participation.
As USADA's Travis Tygart put it: "Fostering elitism and capturing TV space for elite competition definitely draws viewers and revenue dollars. But it does nothing to build participation at grassroots level, leading to lifetime involvement in sport."
Which is, our leaders might reflect, the entire purpose of the GAA.
Sunday Indo Sport
What is Brolly's point?
The gpa could kill the giving spirit of the gaa.
I suppose it's an amateur game but we are striving for professional standards and not every player wants to be the best they can be, some just want top play sport and enjoy it.
Would anyone have the following figures because anecdotally to me it looks like we have more kids, boys and girls, playing gaa games than ever but conversely less and less adults are playing.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 04, 2015, 12:41:13 PM
I suppose it's an amateur game but we are striving for professional standards and not every player wants to be the best they can be, some just want top play sport and enjoy it.
Would anyone have the following figures because anecdotally to me it looks like we have more kids, boys and girls, playing gaa games than ever but conversely less and less adults are playing.
Juvenile playing numbers are through the roof but I've no idea what adult numbers are like or what the drop off is after say 25 - I wouldn't be surprised if there were
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 04, 2015, 11:37:18 AM
What is Brolly's point?
Well he's a few;
That the GAA aping the elitist professional sports model are going to come unstuck if they persist with developing and enlarging the intercounty game at the expense of clubs and so forth, pointing out the suggested GPA model of more games at intercounty level will have an even more detrimental impact on club players and this new revenue they forecast won't make its way down to the grassroots.
And that promoting top level sport has not proven to increase participation levels as per the Australian olympics, London Olympics and the best was to increase participation levels is investing at grass routes level with facilities and volunteers on the ground. The EPL is the richest league in the world in terms of TV revenues, yet grassroots coaching and facilities are the worst in Europe.
General crux, don't let the intercounty game be the end all of the GAA as a lot of the media and GPA would want it to be.
Quote from: FermGael on November 25, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
I know one thing...there'll no be too much Euro left in Mayo by the time them four men are finished with them...and they may well win them SAM but it'll cost them ;)
Quote from: illdecide on December 04, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 25, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
I know one thing...there'll no be too much Euro left in Mayo by the time them four men are finished with them...and they may well win them SAM but it'll cost them ;)
Dunno about that.
McEntee is there to work with the boys based out of Mayo mostly in Dublin. This will probably happen for most of the first few months. probably up until March or after before these guys are together all the time. This is a money saving cost and what was employed before in other setups - i.e. rather than bringing them down 3 or 4 nights a week etc along with McEntee with maybe Buckley going up a few times to make sure all sides on the same hymn sheet.
Plus Dublin a lot closer for him which is one of the reasons I suppose he came on board.
If you want to go looking for money going to be spent check out the top two i.e. Kerry and Dublin. Also Rossies I would say along with Armagh. Can't see McGeeney sparing it or McStay.
Quote from: Nihilist on December 04, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 04, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 25, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
I know one thing...there'll no be too much Euro left in Mayo by the time them four men are finished with them...and they may well win them SAM but it'll cost them ;)
Dunno about that.
McEntee is there to work with the boys based out of Mayo mostly in Dublin. This will probably happen for most of the first few months. probably up until March or after before these guys are together all the time. This is a money saving cost and what was employed before in other setups - i.e. rather than bringing them down 3 or 4 nights a week etc along with McEntee with maybe Buckley going up a few times to make sure all sides on the same hymn sheet.
Plus Dublin a lot closer for him which is one of the reasons I suppose he came on board.
If you want to go looking for money going to be spent check out the top two i.e. Kerry and Dublin. Also Rossies I would say along with Armagh. Can't see McGeeney sparing it or McStay.
McEntee isn't working for free or even cheap. Buckley is a professional coach.
Barry Solan now works full-time with Arsenal in London. He's attached to the Mayo U21s (his brother is the manager) and the Mayo seniors. His actual input in either besides sending over a few diet and training plans is highly questionable. Any flights will obviously be underwritten by the Mayo money men.
Kevin lives in Roscommon town, FOD in Boyle. In-county management nearly to a man. Of all the selectors or coaches named so far only Liam McHale would even be getting any serious 'mileage' money. What Mayo are doing doesn't even compare to us. They are in serious debt and they've just brought in another high-priced, high-powered management set-up after swearing off them in 2014 when they ran Horan for having too much power and spending too much money. Magic sums. There's a very real story there if any national journalist wants to make a name for themselves.
Quote from: Nihilist on December 04, 2015, 07:06:45 PM
Quote from: illdecide on December 04, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
Quote from: FermGael on November 25, 2015, 10:34:38 PM
McEntee, Buckley, Horan And Solan.
Sure if you can't beat them, join them
I know one thing...there'll no be too much Euro left in Mayo by the time them four men are finished with them...and they may well win them SAM but it'll cost them ;)
Dunno about that.
McEntee is there to work with the boys based out of Mayo mostly in Dublin. This will probably happen for most of the first few months. probably up until March or after before these guys are together all the time. This is a money saving cost and what was employed before in other setups - i.e. rather than bringing them down 3 or 4 nights a week etc along with McEntee with maybe Buckley going up a few times to make sure all sides on the same hymn sheet.
Plus Dublin a lot closer for him which is one of the reasons I suppose he came on board.
If you want to go looking for money going to be spent check out the top two i.e. Kerry and Dublin. Also Rossies I would say along with Armagh. Can't see McGeeney sparing it or McStay.
I doubt if Roscommon or Armagh got all of their available funds together would be able to match what Mayo will likely spend in 2016 on just their senior team. It's not groundbreaking stuff to know the counties that are challenging for the All Ireland are also the same counties that are spending the most.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2015, 07:24:21 PM
I doubt if Roscommon or Armagh got all of their available funds together would be able to match what Mayo will likely spend in 2016 on just their senior team. It's not groundbreaking stuff to know the counties that are challenging for the All Ireland are also the same counties that are spending the most.
Correct - counties that are challenging will be spending a lot more.
Most obviously because they will be in the championship longer - thus extending their spend by probably up to 100%. But I dont see how these 2 points are relevant to this thread.
Quote from: Nihilist on December 04, 2015, 08:27:23 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2015, 07:24:21 PM
I doubt if Roscommon or Armagh got all of their available funds together would be able to match what Mayo will likely spend in 2016 on just their senior team. It's not groundbreaking stuff to know the counties that are challenging for the All Ireland are also the same counties that are spending the most.
Correct - counties that are challenging will be spending a lot more.
Most obviously because they will be in the championship longer - thus extending their spend by probably up to 100%. But I dont see how these 2 points are relevant to this thread.
The haves and the have nots. It is not a level playing field.
The same few counties have reached the last four for the last five years it's annual spend for those counties and that supply of cash is unlikely to dry up anytime soon for those sides.
On the other hand if say Cavan,Tipperary were to get in expensive management team have extended run in the championship and spent the same type of cash that the current challengers do now they would likely be in the red for next few years.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2015, 09:27:12 PM
The haves and the have nots. It is not a level playing field.
The same few counties have reached the last four for the last five years it's annual spend for those counties and that supply of cash is unlikely to dry up anytime soon for those sides.
On the other hand if say Cavan,Tipperary were to get in expensive management team have extended run in the championship and spent the same type of cash that the current challengers do now they would likely be in the red for next few years.
I would say it is harder for the likes of Tipp football (I assume that's who you are referring to) because of the cost of running a successful Hurling team. But thats a different matter as successful duel counties must be counted differently.
But going back to the top 4 - well Mayo are in debt up to their neck. Needed a bail out from Croke Park to cover the repayments on the over spend for the stand (unfortunately built in the boom) in McHale park. To say/assume that they have an unlimited supply of cash is simply incorrect.
Quote from: johnneycool on December 04, 2015, 01:46:18 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 04, 2015, 11:37:18 AM
What is Brolly's point?
Well he's a few;
That the GAA aping the elitist professional sports model are going to come unstuck if they persist with developing and enlarging the intercounty game at the expense of clubs and so forth, pointing out the suggested GPA model of more games at intercounty level will have an even more detrimental impact on club players and this new revenue they forecast won't make its way down to the grassroots.
And that promoting top level sport has not proven to increase participation levels as per the Australian olympics, London Olympics and the best was to increase participation levels is investing at grass routes level with facilities and volunteers on the ground. The EPL is the richest league in the world in terms of TV revenues, yet grassroots coaching and facilities are the worst in Europe.
General crux, don't let the intercounty game be the end all of the GAA as a lot of the media and GPA would want it to be.
But sure isn't the same boy making a profitable sideline out of glorifying/critiquing the inter-county game.
I think Joe is well able to run with the hare or hunt with the hounds as the mood/opportunity allows.
Quote from: Nihilist on December 04, 2015, 10:33:29 PM
I would say it is harder for the likes of Tipp football (I assume that's who you are referring to) because of the cost of running a successful Hurling team. But thats a different matter as successful duel counties must be counted differently.
But going back to the top 4 - well Mayo are in debt up to their neck. Needed a bail out from Croke Park to cover the repayments on the over spend for the stand (unfortunately built in the boom) in McHale park. To say/assume that they have an unlimited supply of cash is simply incorrect.
I picked Cavan,Tipperary out as examples because they have done the ground work at underage, Cavan are in division two and Tipperary are likely to gain promotion to that division next year however with the way the game has gone their fate at senior level could be decided by how much money they can afford to spend each year.
The final point you make sounds like Mayo have done a business deal of putting a stadium debt on the back burner while can continue to spend as they have done these last four or five years. A situation like that could become a case of short term gain to long term pain.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 04, 2015, 11:35:12 PM
I think Joe is well able to run with the hare or hunt with the hounds as the mood/opportunity allows.
Not only that, when Tyrone and Donegal were in their pomp (mostly Tyrone) he eulogised their professional training methods. And he savaged anyone he thought 'wasn't a cousin of a county footballer'.
A populist.
Quote from: AZOffaly on December 04, 2015, 11:35:12 PM
I think Joe is well able to run with the hare or hunt with the hounds as the mood/opportunity allows.
He is like a GAA version of Dunphy. As Eugene McGee said about his own writing, a lot of sports journalism is shite.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on December 04, 2015, 11:57:37 PM
I picked Cavan,Tipperary out as examples because they have done the ground work at underage, Cavan are in division two and Tipperary are likely to gain promotion to that division next year however with the way the game has gone their fate at senior level could be decided by how much money they can afford to spend each year.
The final point you make sounds like Mayo have done a business deal of putting a stadium debt on the back burner while can continue to spend as they have done these last four or five years. A situation like that could become a case of short term gain to long term pain.
Lookit - one of the reasons these 2 teams won't be spending as much is because they won't be in the championship that long. Div 1 with a few from Div 2 (but I would exclude both above you mentioned from here) is where it is at when winning provincial and/or getting as far as 1/4 final stage of championship.
Div 1 football is actually like championship now except played in early months. It is seriously tough stuff and the gap is widening as far as I can see. Most Div 1 teams (bar Dublin) actually focus on just maintaining their divisional status because if not they will peak too early.
Winning home games (and an odd one away) is what counts to do this. Realistically that could even get you to a League semi-final spot. Its a fine margin between semi-final an relegation now which again makes it so competitive.
By the way I looked it up again about McEntee and it was confirmed nationally that he will be based out of Dublin and that will be up until MAY looking after 14 of the panel based up there ! So again - I put it back to you that it is not Mayo who are doing the over spend in a big way.
(http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article34513664.ece/1a56a/MOBILE/w300-1x5/gaa-spend.png)
The money spent by Armagh and Roscommon last year. :o
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 09:39:29 AM
(http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article34513664.ece/1a56a/MOBILE/w300-1x5/gaa-spend.png)
The money spent by Armagh and Roscommon last year. :o
two Kerry managers
Division Two winners
U21 team that got to an AI semi final
it all adds up
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 09:39:29 AM
(http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article34513664.ece/1a56a/MOBILE/w300-1x5/gaa-spend.png)
The money spent by Armagh and Roscommon last year. :o
I presume the money spent is on Senior Football and Senior Hurling? If yes, then this makes the Galway spend naturally a lot more than a county like Mayo.
Are Minor/u-21/Juniors included as well?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 09:39:29 AM
(http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article34513664.ece/1a56a/MOBILE/w300-1x5/gaa-spend.png)
The money spent by Armagh and Roscommon last year. :o
two Kerry managers
Division Two winners
U21 team that got to an AI semi final
it all adds up
Yet Tyrone spent 200k less despite winning the AI u21 and making it to late August in the Championship. Huge money being pumped into Roscommon and ye even have your own bus....
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 05, 2016, 10:52:37 AM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 09:39:29 AM
(http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article34513664.ece/1a56a/MOBILE/w300-1x5/gaa-spend.png)
The money spent by Armagh and Roscommon last year. :o
I presume the money spent is on Senior Football and Senior Hurling? If yes, then this makes the Galway spend naturally a lot more than a county like Mayo.
Are Minor/u-21/Juniors included as well?
I'm assuming your logic is correct. Both codes from minor up.
The money spent on particularly single code counties like Armagh and Roscommon is an awful lot considering how they've underperformed in Championship.
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
Don't introduce logic into this discussion. That'd be daft.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
This is only what the county boards spent I presume. Pointless enough exercise. The 'haves' are pulling in massive money from private sources that the 'have nots' can only dream of.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
you're right.
Roscommon need a personal taxi for each player living in dublin, galway or wherever for training during the week
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
you're right.
Roscommon need a personal taxi for each player living in dublin, galway or wherever for training during the week
You seem to be of the opinion Roscommon are unique, they're not, every county has these problems. Roscommon lads on here love to make excuses as to why they haven't made any imprint on championship football in recent years.
The bottom line is Roscommon have one of the highest expenses of a predominant football county and they havery thus far failed to deliver.
Pitch hire.
They don't have a centre of excellence to use.
Correct and we hadn't any fairy godfather picking up some of the tabs so keeping Co Board payments down.
Also had to go to Ruislip (and N Y this year).
Quote from: shark on March 05, 2016, 01:07:01 PM
This is only what the county boards spent I presume. Pointless enough exercise. The 'haves' are pulling in massive money from private sources that the 'have nots' can only dream of.
+1.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
you're right.
Roscommon need a personal taxi for each player living in dublin, galway or wherever for training during the week
You seem to be of the opinion Roscommon are unique, they're not, every county has these problems. Roscommon lads on here love to make excuses as to why they haven't made any imprint on championship football in recent years.
The bottom line is Roscommon have one of the highest expenses of a predominant football county and they havery thus far failed to deliver.
You seem to have awful set against Roscommon for some reason did some rossie on here hurt your feelings about something they said about Tyrone.
Plenty on that list that has spent big and underachived in the championship however they aren't holding their own in division one like Roscommon.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 03:23:40 PM
Correct and we hadn't any fairy godfather picking up some of the tabs so keeping Co Board payments down.
Also had to go to Ruislip (and N Y this year).
Hahaha,you either don't know or you are simply being dishonest.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 05, 2016, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
you're right.
Roscommon need a personal taxi for each player living in dublin, galway or wherever for training during the week
You seem to be of the opinion Roscommon are unique, they're not, every county has these problems. Roscommon lads on here love to make excuses as to why they haven't made any imprint on championship football in recent years.
The bottom line is Roscommon have one of the highest expenses of a predominant football county and they havery thus far failed to deliver.
You seem to have awful set against Roscommon for some reason did some rossie on here hurt your feelings about something they said about Tyrone.
Plenty on that list that has spent big and underachived in the championship however they aren't holding their own in division one like Roscommon.
The way some of your lads behaved after they took a fair and square beating last year was disgraceful. I would say a lot of them have shown themselves to be hypocrites since then. Nobody likes a hypocrite, especially when they display a baseless arrogance when running away from their conflictions.
Tyrone are the cleanest, fairest most honest team that ever played Gaelic football at Minor u21 or Senior.
They never once cheated ever.
None if them ever fell when their hair was tossed.
Whenever they get an unfair free they always kick it wide.
Happy now?
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 04:03:28 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on March 05, 2016, 03:43:38 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 01:46:37 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
you're right.
Roscommon need a personal taxi for each player living in dublin, galway or wherever for training during the week
You seem to be of the opinion Roscommon are unique, they're not, every county has these problems. Roscommon lads on here love to make excuses as to why they haven't made any imprint on championship football in recent years.
The bottom line is Roscommon have one of the highest expenses of a predominant football county and they havery thus far failed to deliver.
You seem to have awful set against Roscommon for some reason did some rossie on here hurt your feelings about something they said about Tyrone.
Plenty on that list that has spent big and underachived in the championship however they aren't holding their own in division one like Roscommon.
The way some of your lads behaved after they took a fair and square beating last year was disgraceful. I would say a lot of them have shown themselves to be hypocrites since then. Nobody likes a hypocrite, especially when they display a baseless arrogance when running away from their conflictions.
This is online discussion board with conflicting views and can be heavily populated by wums. Don't be so damn fragile.
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
Just because Tyrone hurlers don't get as much support does not mean this is the case in other counties.
Quote from: Throw ball on March 05, 2016, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
Just because Tyrone hurlers don't get as much support does not mean this is the case in other counties.
Exactly
They're true Gaels in Roscommon. Support both codes
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on March 05, 2016, 06:50:16 PM
Quote from: Throw ball on March 05, 2016, 04:31:33 PM
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on March 05, 2016, 12:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM
One code?
Ros played Armagh in the Rackard final last year, we also had minor and U21 hurling teams.
Most of our football panel at u21 and senior are based outside the County so travel costs quite a bit as the bus can't gather everyone at the one time.
I'd say the football costs dwarves the hurling costs in both these counties.
Huge money being pumped into these counties who underachieved last year. Roscommon have their own bus which means their travel expenses should be significantly less than other counties.
Just because Tyrone hurlers don't get as much support does not mean this is the case in other counties.
Exactly
They're true Gaels in Roscommon. Support both codes
The hurlers are up to Christy Ring now. For such a small pick they usually punch way above their weight.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 05, 2016, 04:14:37 PM
Tyrone are the cleanest, fairest most honest team that ever played Gaelic football at Minor u21 or Senior.
They never once cheated ever.
None if them ever fell when their hair was tossed.
Does this not falling also include those without hair?
Let him without hair throw the first Elbow .
and he usually did
Questions asked about the money spent in Roscommon and Armagh. The Rossies are fighting back with some answers. What about Armagh? Who got the money? And what did we get for it?
Do you mind me asking where you got this info?
One thing that stands out is that all the talk about Dublin buying all Irelands is nonsense. When you take into account that the minor hurlers and u21 footballers both reached an All Ireland Semi FInal along with both Senior Teams going well I;d say we are spending less than a lot of counties proportionally.
Sure all ye're players live within a few miles of the training and playing centres.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Sure all ye're players live within a few miles of the training and playing centres.
We don't have a training centre, Or a bus for that matter!
Quote from: the_daddy on March 09, 2016, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on March 09, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Sure all ye're players live within a few miles of the training and playing centres.
We don't have a training centre, Or a bus for that matter!
I think the point he's making is that the single biggest expense in every other county is player mileage
Spot on.
I'm sure they all train together somewhere and they don't need a bus with all that taxpayer subsidised public transport around them.
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: the_daddy on March 09, 2016, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on March 09, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Sure all ye're players live within a few miles of the training and playing centres.
We don't have a training centre, Or a bus for that matter!
I think the point he's making is that the single biggest expense in every other county is player mileage
Spot on.
I'm sure they all train together somewhere and they don't need a bus with all that taxpayer subsidised public transport around them.
Since 2013 it's not like they've played 38 out of 48 League and Championship games at home or anything...
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 03:55:27 PM
Quote from: the_daddy on March 09, 2016, 01:37:33 PM
Quote from: Michael Schmeichal on March 09, 2016, 12:36:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 09, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Sure all ye're players live within a few miles of the training and playing centres.
We don't have a training centre, Or a bus for that matter!
I think the point he's making is that the single biggest expense in every other county is player mileage
Spot on.
I'm sure they all train together somewhere and they don't need a bus with all that taxpayer subsidised public transport around them.
And pretty much all come back to play for their clubs too. It takes an incredible level of dedication to be an IC footballer in 2016 and even more to be an IC footballer from the west living in Dublin, as a large portion of our players are.
Roscommon need a bus to go to their home games.
Who can match Clare's resources, should their funding be cut or a percentage given to other counties like Carlow, Wicklow, Leitrim etc. Along with Tyrone's centre of excellence this sounds like it will be hard to compete with, not even Dublin has such facilities.
Where did and does all the money come from, anyone know where a full breakdown/audit of money for respective county boards can be found?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/dnal-g-bringing-buzz-back-to-banner-34632208.html
31 in the backroom team, bigger than Dublins.
Those sessions take place in a 40-seat theatre, with all the required technology, in Caherlohan, Clare's new training centre, situated between Ennis and Tulla.
Completed at the end of last year, it has four pitches - two floodlit - and state of the art training centre, with a gym and hall. There is a recreation room exclusively for the senior hurlers, with couches, a pool table, table tennis and satellite TV
Was recently chatting to a friend who is deeply involved in the local GAA club scene here in County Tyrone. He has been telling me that he is feeling overwhelmed by the amount of money his club is asking from him.
It's no secret that GAA clubs rely heavily on financial support from their members. Membership fees and occasional contributions for club run competitions are not only understandable but expected. However, recently the club in question has upped the ante, hounding members for money in ways that feel disproportionate and, in my own opinion, disrespectful.
While it's crucial for clubs to cover necessary expenses, it's been reported that this club is requesting members to foot the bill for their own presentation nights. Presentation nights, traditionally, have been a moment for clubs to come together and celebrate the achievements of their members. Asking attendees to pay for their own participation seems to go against the very spirit that these events should embody. Moreover, the practice of soliciting weekly direct debit payments from members has raised eyebrows. While consistent funding is essential for club operations, transparency and accountability regarding financial matters are equally important.
At what point do we draw the line? Perhaps it's time for a collective conversation about what constitutes reasonable financial expectations from our members and how we can hold our clubs accountable to those standards.
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 14, 2024, 02:00:30 PMWas recently chatting to a friend who is deeply involved in the local GAA club scene here in County Tyrone. He has been telling me that he is feeling overwhelmed by the amount of money his club is asking from him.
It's no secret that GAA clubs rely heavily on financial support from their members. Membership fees and occasional contributions for club run competitions are not only understandable but expected. However, recently the club in question has upped the ante, hounding members for money in ways that feel disproportionate and, in my own opinion, disrespectful.
While it's crucial for clubs to cover necessary expenses, it's been reported that this club is requesting members to foot the bill for their own presentation nights. Presentation nights, traditionally, have been a moment for clubs to come together and celebrate the achievements of their members. Asking attendees to pay for their own participation seems to go against the very spirit that these events should embody. Moreover, the practice of soliciting weekly direct debit payments from members has raised eyebrows. While consistent funding is essential for club operations, transparency and accountability regarding financial matters are equally important.
At what point do we draw the line? Perhaps it's time for a collective conversation about what constitutes reasonable financial expectations from our members and how we can hold our clubs accountable to those standards.
Its a difficult one. The cost of running a club has increased massively in recent years with things like floodlights, gyms, physio etc now expected at the same time as facilities costs like energy has skyrockted. Pitch upkeep is now no longer a couple of volunteers on a mower. That is before you get into payments to managers, S&C coaches etc.
A couple of local clubs round me have a combination of monthly DD to all members, players DDs, membership fees etc as well as corporate sponsors. A lot of clubs have moved away from fundraiser events as they are generally so much hassle.
Bottom line is that it has to be paid for and its up to the club to determine the most equitable way to raise funds. Taht being said, It will be a sad day if participation in GAA reduces because members cannot afford it so clubs need to bear this in mind.
Everything is getting squeezed in all aspects of life, the GAA is not immune and the Direct Debit to the club is as vulnerable as any of the rest of them - probably one of the first ones to go for a lot of people under pressure.
Quote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 14, 2024, 02:00:30 PMWas recently chatting to a friend who is deeply involved in the local GAA club scene here in County Tyrone. He has been telling me that he is feeling overwhelmed by the amount of money his club is asking from him.
It's no secret that GAA clubs rely heavily on financial support from their members. Membership fees and occasional contributions for club run competitions are not only understandable but expected. However, recently the club in question has upped the ante, hounding members for money in ways that feel disproportionate and, in my own opinion, disrespectful.
While it's crucial for clubs to cover necessary expenses, it's been reported that this club is requesting members to foot the bill for their own presentation nights. Presentation nights, traditionally, have been a moment for clubs to come together and celebrate the achievements of their members. Asking attendees to pay for their own participation seems to go against the very spirit that these events should embody. Moreover, the practice of soliciting weekly direct debit payments from members has raised eyebrows. While consistent funding is essential for club operations, transparency and accountability regarding financial matters are equally important.
At what point do we draw the line? Perhaps it's time for a collective conversation about what constitutes reasonable financial expectations from our members and how we can hold our clubs accountable to those standards.
He should try Rugby or Soccer or Swimming. See the fees involved in that. GAA is great value for money and a fantastic community organisation. It costs a lot to put teams on the field and for that matter teams that can compete.
But if you can't afford it, then it doesn't really matter the price but the days of £20 membership and away ye go are long gone.
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 02:39:53 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 14, 2024, 02:00:30 PMWas recently chatting to a friend who is deeply involved in the local GAA club scene here in County Tyrone. He has been telling me that he is feeling overwhelmed by the amount of money his club is asking from him.
It's no secret that GAA clubs rely heavily on financial support from their members. Membership fees and occasional contributions for club run competitions are not only understandable but expected. However, recently the club in question has upped the ante, hounding members for money in ways that feel disproportionate and, in my own opinion, disrespectful.
While it's crucial for clubs to cover necessary expenses, it's been reported that this club is requesting members to foot the bill for their own presentation nights. Presentation nights, traditionally, have been a moment for clubs to come together and celebrate the achievements of their members. Asking attendees to pay for their own participation seems to go against the very spirit that these events should embody. Moreover, the practice of soliciting weekly direct debit payments from members has raised eyebrows. While consistent funding is essential for club operations, transparency and accountability regarding financial matters are equally important.
At what point do we draw the line? Perhaps it's time for a collective conversation about what constitutes reasonable financial expectations from our members and how we can hold our clubs accountable to those standards.
He should try Rugby or Soccer or Swimming. See the fees involved in that. GAA is great value for money and a fantastic community organisation. It costs a lot to put teams on the field and for that matter teams that can compete.
But if you can't afford it, then it doesn't really matter the price but the days of £20 membership and away ye go are long gone.
I agree, relatively cheap compared to other activities, but slowly narrowing the gap. In the past month alone, I have contributed toward 3 different fundraising initiatives for my team and we are only into February Christs sake.
My biggest annoyance is the senior coaching team getting a hefty sum (outsiders) when we are not doing enough to bring our own coaches through.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on February 14, 2024, 02:51:51 PMQuote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 02:39:53 PMQuote from: ShutterinbyDayGAAbyNight on February 14, 2024, 02:00:30 PMWas recently chatting to a friend who is deeply involved in the local GAA club scene here in County Tyrone. He has been telling me that he is feeling overwhelmed by the amount of money his club is asking from him.
It's no secret that GAA clubs rely heavily on financial support from their members. Membership fees and occasional contributions for club run competitions are not only understandable but expected. However, recently the club in question has upped the ante, hounding members for money in ways that feel disproportionate and, in my own opinion, disrespectful.
While it's crucial for clubs to cover necessary expenses, it's been reported that this club is requesting members to foot the bill for their own presentation nights. Presentation nights, traditionally, have been a moment for clubs to come together and celebrate the achievements of their members. Asking attendees to pay for their own participation seems to go against the very spirit that these events should embody. Moreover, the practice of soliciting weekly direct debit payments from members has raised eyebrows. While consistent funding is essential for club operations, transparency and accountability regarding financial matters are equally important.
At what point do we draw the line? Perhaps it's time for a collective conversation about what constitutes reasonable financial expectations from our members and how we can hold our clubs accountable to those standards.
He should try Rugby or Soccer or Swimming. See the fees involved in that. GAA is great value for money and a fantastic community organisation. It costs a lot to put teams on the field and for that matter teams that can compete.
But if you can't afford it, then it doesn't really matter the price but the days of £20 membership and away ye go are long gone.
I agree, relatively cheap compared to other activities, but slowly narrowing the gap. In the past month alone, I have contributed toward 3 different fundraising initiatives for my team and we are only into February Christs sake.
My biggest annoyance is the senior coaching team getting a hefty sum (outsiders) when we are not doing enough to bring our own coaches through.
I literally got asked for £200 to sponsor a Camogie lady for the year 2 mins after I wrote that. I'm f**king done lol!
I think the GAA is a fantastic organisation but with outside managers, coaches and S&C's being 'employed' nowadays then costs will rise.
I have no problem paying a good membership fee, if required, per year. The amount of training session, fun and enjoyment my kids get out of the GAA can't be measured. Maybe in a few years time, they may drift but currenly, they love being about the club.
Who are the people that are complaining about costs?
Are these the people who use GAA clubs as babysitting services, roll up in big jeeps, drop kids off then clear off shopping?
Is it people who spend £60 over the week-end on chippys and take-aways. Is it people who going on holidays three times a year?
We need a bit of perspective.
The crunch is kicking in surely but what the GAA, clubs and coaches etc. give back to kids is priceless in my opinion. We may fight and argue about the direct of the GAA but it's great value for money.
It helps when you see the money being spent so you know where it is going, even if a huge chunk is going to management etc, other than management payments there is great value in the membership at my club anyway
I no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
This is Jarlath Burns biggest challenge as president. No president has had the cajones to tackle the issue to date and it has got progressively worse every year. The single biggest expense in any club will be the running costs of the mens senior team. A lot of these coaching lads are on the gravy train and they are costing a hell of a lot more than 10k. Simple rule to implement is that the managers must be a club member, it would curb a lot of this excessive costs burdened onto clubs.
Ultimately it is the members who are subsidising these lads wages and only one team will win the championship anyway, normally the one with the best players. It is sucking all the money out of the game which could be channelled much better than going into the hands of the merry go round managers.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2024, 01:03:49 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
This is Jarlath Burns biggest challenge as president. No president has had the cajones to tackle the issue to date and it has got progressively worse every year. The single biggest expense in any club will be the running costs of the mens senior team. A lot of these coaching lads are on the gravy train and they are costing a hell of a lot more than 10k. Simple rule to implement is that the managers must be a club member, it would curb a lot of this excessive costs burdened onto clubs.
Ultimately it is the members who are subsidising these lads wages and only one team will win the championship anyway, normally the one with the best players. It is sucking all the money out of the game which could be channelled much better than going into the hands of the merry go round managers.
Involved with club at committee level for years and a club man can cost you more than an outsider. We've had oursiders who have refused to take a penny. Depends on individual.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
It's something I've seen first hand. Some people who would walk over hot coals to learn and become coaches while others within the club just refer to them as cone lifters as though there is no potential in them.
Quote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 01:08:59 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2024, 01:03:49 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
This is Jarlath Burns biggest challenge as president. No president has had the cajones to tackle the issue to date and it has got progressively worse every year. The single biggest expense in any club will be the running costs of the mens senior team. A lot of these coaching lads are on the gravy train and they are costing a hell of a lot more than 10k. Simple rule to implement is that the managers must be a club member, it would curb a lot of this excessive costs burdened onto clubs.
Ultimately it is the members who are subsidising these lads wages and only one team will win the championship anyway, normally the one with the best players. It is sucking all the money out of the game which could be channelled much better than going into the hands of the merry go round managers.
Involved with club at committee level for years and a club man can cost you more than an outsider. We've had oursiders who have refused to take a penny. Depends on individual.
See if a club man is looking a penny he should be chased from about the place.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 05:05:19 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 01:08:59 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2024, 01:03:49 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
This is Jarlath Burns biggest challenge as president. No president has had the cajones to tackle the issue to date and it has got progressively worse every year. The single biggest expense in any club will be the running costs of the mens senior team. A lot of these coaching lads are on the gravy train and they are costing a hell of a lot more than 10k. Simple rule to implement is that the managers must be a club member, it would curb a lot of this excessive costs burdened onto clubs.
Ultimately it is the members who are subsidising these lads wages and only one team will win the championship anyway, normally the one with the best players. It is sucking all the money out of the game which could be channelled much better than going into the hands of the merry go round managers.
Involved with club at committee level for years and a club man can cost you more than an outsider. We've had oursiders who have refused to take a penny. Depends on individual.
See if a club man is looking a penny he should be chased from about the place.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 16, 2024, 05:05:19 PMQuote from: mrdeeds on February 16, 2024, 01:08:59 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 16, 2024, 01:03:49 PMQuote from: Wildweasel74 on February 16, 2024, 12:41:02 PMI no issue paying for club activities but draw the line of financing a 10k mercenary management team who float from club to club every couple of years. If they spend that money training up their own.
This is Jarlath Burns biggest challenge as president. No president has had the cajones to tackle the issue to date and it has got progressively worse every year. The single biggest expense in any club will be the running costs of the mens senior team. A lot of these coaching lads are on the gravy train and they are costing a hell of a lot more than 10k. Simple rule to implement is that the managers must be a club member, it would curb a lot of this excessive costs burdened onto clubs.
Ultimately it is the members who are subsidising these lads wages and only one team will win the championship anyway, normally the one with the best players. It is sucking all the money out of the game which could be channelled much better than going into the hands of the merry go round managers.
Involved with club at committee level for years and a club man can cost you more than an outsider. We've had oursiders who have refused to take a penny. Depends on individual.
See if a club man is looking a penny he should be chased from about the place.
Thd problem was often because they were club men and not taking any money they had all coaches and experts in and other things money wasted on and then the bills were huge.