People you admire

[Snapchap]

Do many elected Sinn Fein and SDLP politicians attend local and international Rugby, Cricket and Hockey matches?

Martin McGuinness spoke of his "particular disappointment" when, to quote a BBC article:

Mrs Foster turned down an offer to attend both a Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland football match with him at 2016 European Championships.

"They refused to go. I wasn't asking her to go to a 1916 commemoration, it was a football match, it was an opportunity to reach out. Arlene went to the Northern Ireland match and I went to both."

[haranguerer]

I have great respect for Mickey Harte because of his dtremendous dignity under pressure as he coped with the death of his daughter. I have reservations about much that Mickey has done but, like Aidan McGinely of recent times., Mickey and his wife were an inspitation to us all.
More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.

I do not understand this in the slightest

What do you not understand? Do you think she should not have attended in order to conform with the usual stereotypes? Her religious beliefs prevented here attending the mass but she turned up for the graveside ceremonies and in doing so she probably upset more of her own supporters than anyone else.
There was nothing to be gained politically by her going there- just a token of respect for the ordeal the Harte and McAravey families were going through.

I think you are mixing up a number of things here. Can you tell me how her religious beliefs prevent her attending the mass? In any event 'in doing so she upset a number of her own supporters' - are you really excusing her bigotry and those of her supporters by admiring her for taking a slight step away from it? Your bar is set incredibly low. And of course there was something to gain politically (not that I'm saying that was necessarily what her attendance was for) - hasn't she fooled people like you into thinking she's a decent sort despite being a hateful bigot (as you state yourself in your response)?

She hasn't fooled me in the slightest. It goes against my nature to admit that I find anything done by the DUP or any of its members to be worthy of praise but to an impartial observer that would make me a bigot also.
I am told that the reason she attended the Harte funeral was because she felt sorry for Mrs harte  and genuinely wanted to show her understanding of a mother's grief. One mother expressing concern for another in her time of deepest grief is a human trait that crosses all sorts of political and cultural divisions.
I'm afraid I don't see how she could have hoped to gain anything politically by doing what she did- contrary to her perceived form. I can't warm to the DUP in any shape or form and the fact that Arlene is not  longer in that party doesn't bother me one way or the other.

One mother showing support for another rises above sectarian battle lines for me.

PS I must really be losing the plot big time!
I recall seeing a (very reasonable) post by imtommygunne and I intended responding to it but when I went to look for it again, I couldn't' find it.
I'm genuinely stuck for time at the moment but I'll resume my search when I get a chance. ( Maybe 'll be locked up first.) Lol

'Sectarian battle lines' are not a major, or even a minor feature, of life in the north. I think you have swallowed a narrative on the Troubles which northern nationalists would not recognise.

Many people attend funerals of those of other faiths and always have done. That Arlene has deliberately drawn such attention to any such gesture she makes, when the rest of us would consider it the most basic of human decency, should tell you all you need to know about her.

[imtommygunn]

i find it hard to judge her at the minute because Edwin Poots makes her look good. Once that settles down I guess we can reflect better. My view on her and the same on Pengelly would be that they come across much more reasonable when they're not in the DUP and they when they are in there they are clearing playing to the masses. That doesn't make it any better. In fact it makes it worse as you don't fully know where they stand really.

(North South meetings, GAA matches and catholic funerals are, the way he is going anyway, not things which Poots looks like he would go anywhere near had he the choice and then there's gay blood etc so at the minute Arlene smells of roses but the dust needs to settle.)

[haranguerer]

I think she should be judged like anyone else, against general standards of human decency, not the standards of the DUP.

She is far worse than Poots because she was happy to go along with whatever suppression of rights kept her in power, while seemingly not actually supporting what she was doing (as she'd have us believe now) herself. How could you be any more heinous than going along with all of that for pure personal interest. At least Poots professes to believe in the misguided principles he supports. Arlene is now backtracking to try to sanitise herself for a future career. And judging by on here it'll work.

Her spiel about 'the dup not being the party she joined' - its just absolute crap. They were even worse when she joined them. Also coming out with that they weren't the party she thought they were - as someone pointed out in Twitter, as the leader for the last 5 years, they are the party she led them to be. She is a publicity hungry nasty piece of work.

References have been made to her past trauma - she is far from alone in this in the political arena in the north. She deserves sympathy for that, but she doesn't deserve allowances for that in her political career; if she can't get past it then its quite clearly not the career for her.

[BennyCake]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

[Keyser soze]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

The correct terminology is 'toe the line'.

[BennyCake]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

The correct terminology is 'toe the line'.

I put that in deliberately to see who was paying attention.

[johnnycool]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

Apart from toe/towing the line, I'm interested in this new direction the Catholic Church is going, in what way has Pope Francey changed anything?

[Itchy]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

Apart from toe/towing the line, I'm interested in this new direction the Catholic Church is going, in what way has Pope Francey changed anything?

Pope Francis is to be admired for the way he embraced marketing. The results are amazing, he does nothing significantly different than any other pope but people think he is some sort of revolutionary.

[johnnycool]

I think Arlene will use every opportunity to get a dig at the DUP. They screwed her over, and she will delight in making an attack on them, and at the same time making herself look better, which will only benefit her and the next step she takes.

But to be honest, there's a lot of organisations that people are a part of, but as individuals they aren't allowed to speak their opinion, and have to follow policy. But then again Arlene, and all DUP members know the score before they join.

Not comparing the DUP to the GAA, but I'm sure there were many who didn't agree with Rule 21, 42 or banning of players who played soccer. Likewise, the Catholic Church. I'm sure there are/were many Clergy who didn't/don't agree with certain rules, but tow the line (I actually think that's why Pope Benedict stood down. Because he wasn't prepared to tow the line in terms of the new direction the church was going on certain issues).

Apart from toe/towing the line, I'm interested in this new direction the Catholic Church is going, in what way has Pope Francey changed anything?

Pope Francis is to be admired for the way he embraced marketing. The results are amazing, he does nothing significantly different than any other pope but people think he is some sort of revolutionary.

Well yes, I'll give him that. He's talked a great talk so far.

[Lar Naparka]

This is my final post on this topic. It has gone decidedly off-topic.
The purpose of the thread was fairly uncomplicated; posters were invited to express their personal opinions and there should be no need for anyone to reply with abuse of any sort.
That sort of schoolground behaviour may be okay on topics of a broader nature but I see no need for it here.
To recap one last time; In my (very) personal opinion Arlene Foster suffered at least as much personal tragedy at the hands of the Provos as any nationalist did because of loyalist paramilitaries. IMO again, I think she has every reason to feel bitter. I don't like her politics but I acknowledge that she left her sectarian overcoat behind her on at least  two occasions. That's my personal opinion- more or less and it will remain so.

[seafoid]

This is my final post on this topic. It has gone decidedly off-topic.
The purpose of the thread was fairly uncomplicated; posters were invited to express their personal opinions and there should be no need for anyone to reply with abuse of any sort.
That sort of schoolground behaviour may be okay on topics of a broader nature but I see no need for it here.
To recap one last time; In my (very) personal opinion Arlene Foster suffered at least as much personal tragedy at the hands of the Provos as any nationalist did because of loyalist paramilitaries. IMO again, I think she has every reason to feel bitter. I don't like her politics but I acknowledge that she left her sectarian overcoat behind her on at least  two occasions. That's my personal opinion- more or less and it will remain so.

Arlene Foster told the FT  she would probably leave the north if there was a united Ireland.
I was very surprised by that.

[KickItInAndStartClapping]

I have great respect for Mickey Harte because of his dtremendous dignity under pressure as he coped with the death of his daughter. I have reservations about much that Mickey has done but, like Aidan McGinely of recent times., Mickey and his wife were an inspitation to us all.
More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.

I do not understand this in the slightest

What do you not understand? Do you think she should not have attended in order to conform with the usual stereotypes? Her religious beliefs prevented here attending the mass but she turned up for the graveside ceremonies and in doing so she probably upset more of her own supporters than anyone else.
There was nothing to be gained politically by her going there- just a token of respect for the ordeal the Harte and McAravey families were going through.

I think you are mixing up a number of things here. Can you tell me how her religious beliefs prevent her attending the mass? In any event 'in doing so she upset a number of her own supporters' - are you really excusing her bigotry and those of her supporters by admiring her for taking a slight step away from it? Your bar is set incredibly low. And of course there was something to gain politically (not that I'm saying that was necessarily what her attendance was for) - hasn't she fooled people like you into thinking she's a decent sort despite being a hateful bigot (as you state yourself in your response)?

She hasn't fooled me in the slightest. It goes against my nature to admit that I find anything done by the DUP or any of its members to be worthy of praise but to an impartial observer that would make me a bigot also.
I am told that the reason she attended the Harte funeral was because she felt sorry for Mrs harte  and genuinely wanted to show her understanding of a mother's grief. One mother expressing concern for another in her time of deepest grief is a human trait that crosses all sorts of political and cultural divisions.
I'm afraid I don't see how she could have hoped to gain anything politically by doing what she did- contrary to her perceived form. I can't warm to the DUP in any shape or form and the fact that Arlene is not  longer in that party doesn't bother me one way or the other.

One mother showing support for another rises above sectarian battle lines for me.

PS I must really be losing the plot big time!
I recall seeing a (very reasonable) post by imtommygunne and I intended responding to it but when I went to look for it again, I couldn't' find it.
I'm genuinely stuck for time at the moment but I'll resume my search when I get a chance. ( Maybe 'll be locked up first.) Lol

'Sectarian battle lines' are not a major, or even a minor feature, of life in the north. I think you have swallowed a narrative on the Troubles which northern nationalists would not recognise.

Many people attend funerals of those of other faiths and always have done. That Arlene has deliberately drawn such attention to any such gesture she makes, when the rest of us would consider it the most basic of human decency, should tell you all you need to know about her.

After reading this thrilling discussion and seeing that Lar Naparka has decided to post his "last post" I would like to state that i

[Itchy]

This is my final post on this topic. It has gone decidedly off-topic.
The purpose of the thread was fairly uncomplicated; posters were invited to express their personal opinions and there should be no need for anyone to reply with abuse of any sort.
That sort of schoolground behaviour may be okay on topics of a broader nature but I see no need for it here.
To recap one last time; In my (very) personal opinion Arlene Foster suffered at least as much personal tragedy at the hands of the Provos as any nationalist did because of loyalist paramilitaries. IMO again, I think she has every reason to feel bitter. I don't like her politics but I acknowledge that she left her sectarian overcoat behind her on at least  two occasions. That's my personal opinion- more or less and it will remain so.

Nothing wrong with what you write above. However you are changing your tune Lar. Above you say "I don't like her politics but I acknowledge that she left her sectarian overcoat behind her on at least  two occasions" but in your opening post, of all the people in the world you could chose to admire (the actual purpose of this thread was to list people you admire) you selected Arlene. Is it fair to say your position has somewhat shifted now?

[Itchy]

This is my final post on this topic. It has gone decidedly off-topic.
The purpose of the thread was fairly uncomplicated; posters were invited to express their personal opinions and there should be no need for anyone to reply with abuse of any sort.
That sort of schoolground behaviour may be okay on topics of a broader nature but I see no need for it here.
To recap one last time; In my (very) personal opinion Arlene Foster suffered at least as much personal tragedy at the hands of the Provos as any nationalist did because of loyalist paramilitaries. IMO again, I think she has every reason to feel bitter. I don't like her politics but I acknowledge that she left her sectarian overcoat behind her on at least  two occasions. That's my personal opinion- more or less and it will remain so.

Arlene Foster told the FT  she would probably leave the north if there was a united Ireland.
I was very surprised by that.

Were you really surprised. I am not surprised all she would say that. However, whether she means it or not I dont know.