NFL Div 2 2020

[Chrimtain]

Query: We are a small county and, this evening, football supporters are left disappointed with a poor football performance while hurling supporters are disappointed with a bad performance at under 17 level. Can this small county be successful in the two codes or are we forever fated to be no more than mediocre in both because we see ourselves as a duel county?

[High Fielder]

A good question. In my opinion, we can only ever hope to get a golden crop every now and then. They may be a lifetime apart. The numbers don't stack up unfortunately. Aside from that, there is an awful lot wrong. When you consider a third of our population comes from one town, it is easy to see how imbalances occur. That's only the start. Bottom line. We don't have the numbers, and we're far from being alone

[BallyroanAbu]

Yes we can be successful, more so at football (because numbers are there). I was involved with last years Minor Footballers and using numbers as an argument for poor performance is nothing more than BS.  The talent is there have we the structure and coaching development to harness it is another matter.  This year's Minor Footballers are arguably more talented than last years,  and hopefully they do well.  But I won't be buying the nonsense of numbers it's inadequate development and coaches.  I still am seething over the appointment of this years Minor Coach, hopefully he does well.  However appointing an guy with no club affiliation in Laois is beyond a joke, when both Noel Coss and Killian Fitzpatrick applied for it.  Killian didn't do to badly after!

[High Fielder]

Proportionately speaking, the clubs and counties with the biggest picks do best. I don't know where the BS lies in that very obvious assertion. The BS here is this persistent line that we have the talent, when all the evidence suggests otherwise. Our players look weak and badly prepared the minute they step outside the county. Maybe you're too close to some of the players involved to look at this objectively BA.

[Laoiseabu]

I'd agree with high fielder . As soon as some of the players put on Laois jersey and go outside the county it turns into a complete shit show for them . It's going to take a total change of culture from the ground up from u6s the whole way to senior . The levels of strength and conditioning in Laois is WAY behind the top counties . It was men vs boys today . I honestly don't know who is going to go midfield to replace Lillis and O'Loughlin in the near future . The bigger picture here is that we are a division 3 team . I can see ourselves and Offaly hanging around division 3 for a while in the next couple of years .

[on the hop]

Best part of today was the refund. A sense of deja vu again in Mullingar. It was Hard to know what to expect before today, with no form line or real knowledge of the current make up of the squad. A few withdrawals and then late injuries left us a bit exposed. Once again Westmeath out fought us and at times bullied certain players, nothing new there in Mullingar. Maybe the lack of training or game time contributed to the shapeless nature of our play. Westmeath looked fitter and sharper but this wouldn't excuse how bad so many key players were. We were too slow to move piggott out on heslin, never dealt with the attacks down the sides, especially both their wing backs and never corrected the lack of mobility around the middle third. There was loads more but it was just the general awfulness of the display that is worrying. The casual miss of such a close in free really summed things up.

The club championships have been of a dreadful standard this year. It might be a bit harsh but we have too many senior teams. Quirke has been extremely loyal to some players when their form didn't warrant a start let alone being involved. He might not be able to do much about it in the next month but it will have to change going forward.

[BallyroanAbu]

Proportionately speaking, the clubs and counties with the biggest picks do best. I don't know where the BS lies in that very obvious assertion. The BS here is this persistent line that we have the talent, when all the evidence suggests otherwise. Our players look weak and badly prepared the minute they step outside the county. Maybe you're too close to some of the players involved to look at this objectively BA.

I think we are getting crossed wires here,  I don't think there is any particular problem with numbers of young players up to 17 in this County.  I do think there are issues with their development from 13 to 20.  The way forward in my opinion is improving our Underage Teams but that comes by improvement in structure be it S&C, Technical Training and I would say Coach Development.  There was no particular "Golden Generation" from 1996- 2007 more likely just we landed on good Coaches at that time.  This was at a time where S & C and nutrition were not particularly strong in all counties.  Now we would have to improve in a number areas to bring our underage teams forward, we need consistent development of our players at 13-20 in the areas S&C, technical ability, athletic levels to give them a platform to succeed at senior.   

I don't see any major difference in player numbers for us at underage with
Monaghan
Armagh
Tyrone
Roscommon

[SCFC]

The stream was just so brutal I couldn't figure out who was supposed to be picking up Heslin before Piggot. Anyone know? Was it Buggie?

[Keyser Söze]

Is that not HF's point BA? That those 4 counties you mention who operate from similar numbers to us don't try to compete at both codes?
And even then, they aren't exactly shooting the lights out every year at underage.
I'm not advocating for dropping one code over the other, merely pointing out the above.

We do need to harvest more for each code from the "other end" of the county. Whatever chance we currently have of finding underage footballers in the hurling end, we have practically none of when it's reversed.
I'd start by looking at the below

You are ignoring the obvious Hesh.
Young lads are given a programme of games from 8 years of age to 17 of years of age in football from end of the county to the other.
Therefore, young lads who show a proficiency will be spotted and asked to attend football trials, or decide to attend themselves.
This opportunity is not given from 8-17 in hurling.

If a 7 year old in Borris, Ballacolla or Rathdowney wants to try football he wanders down to his local field once a week, or once a fortnight at worst.
If a 7 year old in X, Y or Z wants to try hurling he...........What? Depends on parents to bring him 20 minutes away to play with kids he doesn't know? We all know parents are taxi drivers at this stage, rushing around dropping Kid A here and picking up Kid B there. Their is neither the time nor the will to do this. Particularly as there is no history of hurling in this area, the parents probably never hurled, are they going to go to all of this effort? No.

By not exposing our entire captive audience to the game at 7, 8, 9 & 10 we are already deciding that we don't need/want/have access to 50% of our county. Who is making the choice that these 7, 8, 9 & 10 year olds won't be exposed to it? It's not them!

Take U15 Development Squads.
Football mentors can go and have a look at
Portlaoise
Graiguecullen
Ballyroan
Na Fianna (The Arles'??)
Portarlington
St. Pauls
St Joseph's
Ballylinan
Killeshin
The Heath
Stradbally
Kilcavan The Rock
Mountmellick
Park Ratheniska Spink
Rosenallis
Ballyfin
The Harps
Castletown
Camross
Clough Ballacolla

The Hurling mentors can go and see
Portlaoise
The Harps
Abbeyleix
Camross
Castletown
Rathdowney Errill
Clough Ballacolla
Park Ratheniska Timahoe
Borris Kilcotton
Na Fianna (Ballyfin Mountmellick??)
Ballinakill
Rosenallis
Raheen
Mountrath


Thats 20 teams Vs 14 teams.
Thats 90 extra kids playing U15 football when there is a round of games on.

I've said this before 10-15 year olds will play anything! If you told them there was a competitive game of hide and seek there'd be 20 of them at the pitch waiting.
There is no reason there can't be a development division at 11/13/15/17 for any clubs that don't currently enter competitive teams. Anyone who feels they wish to step up to the next divisions, more than welcome.
If you an U11 football team, there is no reason you can't have an U11 hurling team. Actually, there is no excuse for not having one.

[BallyroanAbu]

Is that not HF's point BA? That those 4 counties you mention who operate from similar numbers to us don't try to compete at both codes?
And even then, they aren't exactly shooting the lights out every year at underage.
I'm not advocating for dropping one code over the other, merely pointing out the above.

We do need to harvest more for each code from the "other end" of the county. Whatever chance we currently have of finding underage footballers in the hurling end, we have practically none of when it's reversed.
I'd start by looking at the below

You are ignoring the obvious Hesh.
Young lads are given a programme of games from 8 years of age to 17 of years of age in football from end of the county to the other.
Therefore, young lads who show a proficiency will be spotted and asked to attend football trials, or decide to attend themselves.
This opportunity is not given from 8-17 in hurling.

If a 7 year old in Borris, Ballacolla or Rathdowney wants to try football he wanders down to his local field once a week, or once a fortnight at worst.
If a 7 year old in X, Y or Z wants to try hurling he...........What? Depends on parents to bring him 20 minutes away to play with kids he doesn't know? We all know parents are taxi drivers at this stage, rushing around dropping Kid A here and picking up Kid B there. Their is neither the time nor the will to do this. Particularly as there is no history of hurling in this area, the parents probably never hurled, are they going to go to all of this effort? No.

By not exposing our entire captive audience to the game at 7, 8, 9 & 10 we are already deciding that we don't need/want/have access to 50% of our county. Who is making the choice that these 7, 8, 9 & 10 year olds won't be exposed to it? It's not them!

Take U15 Development Squads.
Football mentors can go and have a look at
Portlaoise
Graiguecullen
Ballyroan
Na Fianna (The Arles'??)
Portarlington
St. Pauls
St Joseph's
Ballylinan
Killeshin
The Heath
Stradbally
Kilcavan The Rock
Mountmellick
Park Ratheniska Spink
Rosenallis
Ballyfin
The Harps
Castletown
Camross
Clough Ballacolla

The Hurling mentors can go and see
Portlaoise
The Harps
Abbeyleix
Camross
Castletown
Rathdowney Errill
Clough Ballacolla
Park Ratheniska Timahoe
Borris Kilcotton
Na Fianna (Ballyfin Mountmellick??)
Ballinakill
Rosenallis
Raheen
Mountrath


Thats 20 teams Vs 14 teams.
Thats 90 extra kids playing U15 football when there is a round of games on.

I've said this before 10-15 year olds will play anything! If you told them there was a competitive game of hide and seek there'd be 20 of them at the pitch waiting.
There is no reason there can't be a development division at 11/13/15/17 for any clubs that don't currently enter competitive teams. Anyone who feels they wish to step up to the next divisions, more than welcome.
If you an U11 football team, there is no reason you can't have an U11 hurling team. Actually, there is no excuse for not having one.

It is Keyser, I just hate the excuse of numbers.  Numbers is not the problem in Laois (in football) in my opinion. 

[Laoiseabu]

Numbers is part of the issue . Numbers is clearly affecting the likes of Kilcruise , Killeen , crettyard, barrowhouse , annanough , Timahoe etc . Clubs are dying because of a lack of numbers in Laois . There is very little population down in them parts . Numbers is an issue . The "football " side of Laois is no different population wise to the likes of Leitrim , longford etc who are predominately football only counties .Besides portlaoise who are a dual club , it is a very small population pool for football .

[High Fielder]

Spot on Laoiseabu. Of course BA speaks from the comfort of an amalgamated club. It stands to reason that the more players you have, the better chance you have of getting a good team. Otherwise you're relying on that golden crop I spoke about. It is rare and wonderful when smaller counties and clubs punch above their weight.

[Butch Cassidy]

For Laois to be successful they need Portlaoise to be strong but they haven't been doing well at underage for a few years now. Has their move of home grounds affected playing numbers? Hassle for kids to have to get a lift to training/matches.

I watched a good few of the club games and thought the standard wasn't great. Skill levels were poor and the S&C fron teams didnt appear to be at senior level. Do all club teams have an S&C coach? Rarely see players handpassing off both hands and kicking from both feet which should be a given at senior level

[High Fielder]

I agree Butch. Portlaoise needs to be at the centre of any plan. We can't afford that sort of attrition. It amazes me that Portlaoise are not competitive every year at underage level. We're talking about one of the biggest towns in the country with only one GAA club. Yes they are cash poor but they should be rich in resources. If they lack for anything, the CB should step in. They won't, because they don't want Portlaoise to be dominant. Unfortunately, Portlaoise under achieving does not translate to other clubs improving. As far as I can see, Portlaoise just offer an outlet and nothing else. You come and play if you want and you make it or you don't. No pressure either way and Laois suffers ultimately because a third of our population lives in that town.

Lads like BA are happy because BA are winning soft underage titles. The bigger picture tends to be somewhat rose tinted from that point of view. But make no mistake here. What we are doing here is a fast track to oblivion in inter county terms. We're not competitive and are not likely to be any time soon.

[on the hop]

We are in bother now