Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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trueblue1234

Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!
Given your initial post you either don't understand power sharing or were intentionally being dishonest.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

trailer

Quote from: Itchy on June 17, 2021, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 08:34:34 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 08:22:01 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
Quote from: Jim Bob on June 17, 2021, 06:33:22 AM
Sinn Fein will get shafted by the Tories on this ...can't believe they are going to trust them on it and nominate a DFM
Will they? I'd say it'll be similar to the abortion and gay marriage issue in that the Brits stepping in allows both sides to save face.

Do you trust the Tories to keep their word?

SF looking to the UK parliament, a parliament that they don't take their seats in and that they don't recognise its authority to pass Irish Language act is next level hypocrisy.

Anyway I am glad that Stormont hasn't fallen and everyone can get on with the important work of governing this place.

It might be Ironic but I dont see how it is hypocrisy unless you think the idea of them even being in stormont is hypocrisy.

SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.


tiempo

What SF have consistently proven time and again is that you don't need to take your seat in WM to get face time with the British PM, get the British to a negotiating table, or get the British to make decisions in your interest. Must really suck balls being a SNP or Plaid Cymru MP.


yellowcard

Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

trailer

Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?

yellowcard

Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?

Possibly but I do think that the risk of collapsing Stormont is potentially greater for the DUP than for SF even though it is not really in the interests of either side. What happens then is that some form of direct rule or joint authority is instigated and decisions that they could previously have vetoed are implemented without their consent. They really are in a corner and that is before you even mention the internal wranglings within the party which are not going away any time soon.   

trueblue1234

The reality is that the British Government are (unreal to be saying this) more reliable negotiating partners than the DUP at the minute. In the past the British Government and Unionists were both United in their contempt for nationalists in NI. The BG now have to keep an appearance of acting fairly, especially where the EU are nosing around. They don't want NI destroying their Great British Brexit.

The DUP are lost. They are like the little kid in the playground who made friends with the school bully to protect them. But now the big kid has realised the little kid is a bollix and f**ked off. The little kid is now all mouth no muscle. They're screwed!!
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Dougal Maguire

Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it
Absolute disaster for the DUP. Up until now they held the trump card that SF would never be forgiven if the collapsed Stormont over the ILA, now it potentially they who are going to do that.

Careful now

Armagh18

Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.
I'd say he's safe enough. He'll just do the usual and blame those pesky Fenians.

Armagh18

Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Then we're looking at an election where they'll get their arses handed to them and inevitably a border poll.

trailer

Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 11:38:02 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 11:05:20 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on June 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM
Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:49:29 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on June 17, 2021, 10:44:34 AM
This is a good outcome for the DUP, they haven't "given in". Westminster will take it out of their hands and they can complain now and again about it

I'd disagree. I think this is a disaster for the DUP and Poots leadership. He looks weak. He has started a chain of events and no one knows where it'll end.

It was the least worst option for them. If Stormont had collapsed and they had been facing an election, they could have been left staring into the abyss. They will have to face that music at some stage in the future but for a new leadership it was the only practical decision they could make.

Yeah they are totally painted into a corner and it wouldn't be so bad if they were a united party but they are so fractious that every option now is a disaster.

I am worried that collapsing Stormont is a legitimate negotiating tactic. What if the DUP want to collapse Stormont over the Protocol? Or some other issue?
Then we're looking at an election where they'll get their arses handed to them and inevitably a border poll.

Listen, Stormont needs to work. Even in a New Ireland Stormont isn't going anywhere. Don't be so naive.

sid waddell

I presume SF will be fighting the next election under the SF/Conservative and Unionist Party banner?  ;D

johnnycool

Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2021, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:19:46 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 10:17:48 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 17, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on June 17, 2021, 09:53:12 AM
Yet again it takes the British Government, a useless, hateful Tory government at that, to deliver for those who identify as Irish in NI - because SF are even more useless

Abortion, same sex marriage and now an Irish language act

Seems to me NI would be better off just going back to direct rule from Westminster, because the British Government stepping in is the only way NI is getting any positive change as it is
Yes because SF famously opposed all 3 of those things.... the obsession is unbelievable.
They chickened out on the abortion issue

And they got none of the three implemented, it took the Brits to do that

Surely indicates British rule would be better because it can actually, you know, do stuff

Also if the Sinn Fein supporters on this forum are anything to go by, a lot of them are conservative and anti-same sex marriage and abortion, so I doubt they're very happy with these things
Was the DUP'ers blocking all 3, not SF. Or are you too blinded by your anti-SF obsession to acknowledge that?

He willfully chooses to misunderstand how power sharing in Stormont works (or not in most cases) and it is the DUP who are either intransigent or break their promises.
I understand full well how it works

It doesn't work

And it certainly doesn't work with the parties involved

It is quite the irony to see the Brits come to the rescue, I thought SF supporters were very much against that kind of thing!

I agree that Stormont in its current form is unsuitable for substantial change to any institutions as we well know but don't think this is down to the DUP and the Shinners as the DUP have made it clear they'll hold their noses not matter what taig is sitting across the table from them.
The DUP have triggered the petition of concern 87 times or the likes since they've been in joint power. They don't want those pesky taigs about the place

armaghniac

Quote from: trailer on June 17, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
SF constantly tell us that WM doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. That other Nationalists are seeming less Irish for taking their seats. And now all of a sudden they are happy for a Parliament that they don't recognise or take their seats in to make laws for the North. That is pure hypocrisy.

I think they would probably say that this is the way to do business with Westminster. Going there would achieve nothing as you could not get a bill passed without the agreement of the government.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B