AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

I agree with that. The last few years under Mickey the team were superbly conditioned but the style of play was micromanaged and very clearly restricted the players. How often were they scared to really commit to attack or shoot? Scared of being subbed after a mistake or immediately after a yellow. The players invariably made poor calls under pressure. The same players who showed great composure these last few weeks. All those years when we dropped an incredible number of shots short. Hardly saw that this year. There was also a recognisable and consistent spine to the team, something else we didn't have under Mickey and the players flourished with it. Look also at the extra number of bodies up the field. I was watching back and at Canavan's late goal chance there are 6 Tyrone players up in attack. The last few years we almost always tried to defend leads late on against good teams. Here we were 4 up late on in the All Ireland final and trying to score a goal. Even putting Donaghy on as a sub at that stage 

Mickey is a legend but he became obsessed by defending and systems which to me meant his teams could never fulfil their potential. That was sad as it was the opposite of his great noughties team. The current lot might well not have beaten the Dubs at their best, but neither would they have been finished after losing an early goal which scuppered their rigid defensive plan. So huge credit to Mickey for his massive achievements and his work in developing many of these players, but he was there a few years too long and was latterly holding them back.

[BennyCake]

I think it's all too simplistic to say  Harte kept them on a lead, Dooher/Logan let them off it.

I know it's all ifs and buts, but the turning point was Donegal game. Three big calls went Tyrone's way. McGee injured (and no card for McKernan - could have been red), the penalty miss, and Murphy's red. Yes it was deserved, but it was a split second thing. Ball fumbled, wild swing. Would Tyrone have won had 2 or 3 of those incidents turned out differently ? I'm not sure.

Then v Kerry,  they were 2 points down when McShane goaled, with a minute to go. If that deflection falls differently, Kerry clear it. That's without including the square ball balls-up.  Thems the breaks. Harte didn't seem to just get those breaks this  last few seasons .

[clarshack]

Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don't think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

[clarshack]

I think it's all too simplistic to say  Harte kept them on a lead, Dooher/Logan let them off it.

I know it's all ifs and buts, but the turning point was Donegal game. Three big calls went Tyrone's way. McGee injured (and no card for McKernan - could have been red), the penalty miss, and Murphy's red. Yes it was deserved, but it was a split second thing. Ball fumbled, wild swing. Would Tyrone have won had 2 or 3 of those incidents turned out differently ? I'm not sure.

Then v Kerry,  they were 2 points down when McShane goaled, with a minute to go. If that deflection falls differently, Kerry clear it. That's without including the square ball balls-up.  Thems the breaks. Harte didn't seem to just get those breaks this  last few seasons .

Fortune favours the brave

[Applesisapples]

I am not up on football tactics and Strategy but to my simple mind this year football seemed more open and exciting to watch (in most cases). I always thought that May-o would not score enough to beat Tie Rone.

[CK_Redhand]

In 2018 final the Tyrone tactics stayed the same until near the end when Cavanagh moved to full forward and they lumped a couple of high balls in.
I think logan and dooher give more freedom and there is now variation in attacks throughout the game e.g. Long kickouts mixed with short, high balls mixed with diagonal runs, breaking the tackle. Under harte it was a deliberate switch on the sideline at a certain point in the match. New management trust players to mix things up and choose the best option the fit the situation and keep the opposition guessing.

Harte deserves a lot of credit but his rigidity held the team back in my opinion.

[tiempo]

Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don't think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

Aww gw'an; if me aunty had ballix she'd be me uncle.

For me Logan and Dooher have been able to bring that bite back to the performances, something that was lacking in very winnable semi finals v Mayo and Kerry that were lost, also think Jim and Jim got into Mickey's head and his inability to free up the forwards to play as forwards was a shame, though he was transitioning between the greatest era in Tyrone football and a slight drop off while other teams improved and peaked. The fact we're still at the top table while Cork Galway Down and Meath flounder is huge credit to Mickey, thankfully appears we won't be having a post-Boylan post-McGrath type plummet.

Will always wonder why he put Melyer on Fenton in the 2018 final, but we were always big underdogs for that one, still feel it was winnable but some of the players were still finding their way and have improved a lot this year with the fresh voice.

[tonto1888]

Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don't think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

How do you know he wouldn't have been overturned?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

AOS just needed to look to his left for that free, Conor Loftus was unmarked out on the wing, simple 20 yard pass was on, he never looked, queue boost to Tyrone, they are on the attack.

To me he's the embodiment of Mayo's issues right now, the fact that the management can't help themselves but indulge him.

For a team that has been so consistently perennially so close, closer than we have been over the last decade, for example, it's evident that not much more is required, though we are an example that could be followed here: 90% of the necessary is already in place, but that little extra that only new management could introduce is required.

JH does not seem to be capable for that final push, IMHO; he's good yes, but lacks that je ne sais quoi where new management with no baggage could take a clear eyed objective view of the deficiencies, and address accordingly, he seems too beholden to vested interests, and too wedded perhaps to the conventional.

[yellowcard]

I agree with that. The last few years under Mickey the team were superbly conditioned but the style of play was micromanaged and very clearly restricted the players. How often were they scared to really commit to attack or shoot? Scared of being subbed after a mistake or immediately after a yellow. The players invariably made poor calls under pressure. The same players who showed great composure these last few weeks. All those years when we dropped an incredible number of shots short. Hardly saw that this year. There was also a recognisable and consistent spine to the team, something else we didn't have under Mickey and the players flourished with it. Look also at the extra number of bodies up the field. I was watching back and at Canavan's late goal chance there are 6 Tyrone players up in attack. The last few years we almost always tried to defend leads late on against good teams. Here we were 4 up late on in the All Ireland final and trying to score a goal. Even putting Donaghy on as a sub at that stage 

Mickey is a legend but he became obsessed by defending and systems which to me meant his teams could never fulfil their potential. That was sad as it was the opposite of his great noughties team. The current lot might well not have beaten the Dubs at their best, but neither would they have been finished after losing an early goal which scuppered their rigid defensive plan. So huge credit to Mickey for his massive achievements and his work in developing many of these players, but he was there a few years too long and was latterly holding them back.

Very much agree with that.

It's the difference between a pre programmed, systematic, stats obsessed approach. Dooher and Logan trusted and empowered the players to make good decisions on the field.

Harte was very good at preparing a team but his set up left little room for any risk taking. The argument he had on BBC with Oisin McConville around inside forwards not having to win their own ball was very instructive in itself. I don't think Niall Morgan would have been booming kick outs 80 metres up the pitch under Mickey Harte which is where they created many of their key scores in the big matches. This might have not been beneficial for Morgans own possession statistics in a team meeting but it was certainly more beneficial for the team.

The other thing about it is that Tyrone were very predictable for other top opponents to stifle under Harte. Everybody knew how they would set up by playing the percentages via a constant recycling of possession and defending zonally. There was an element of surprise that existed this year which the opposition wasn't ready for. 

[BennyHarp]

I think Mickey just never had the same confidence in the new generation that he did in the team he brought through from underage. It may not even have been a conscience thing but if he was comparing McCurry to Canavan, Bradley to Steven O'Neill, McKernan to Ricey, Meyler to Dooher, Hampsey to Gormley then he may just have thought that the current crop just were not at the level required so the defensive systems and structures where introduced to give them a bit of support. Its clear now that this was wrong and the lads thrived under the added responsibility of doing their job and the feeling of being trusted to make a mistake or take a risk enabled them to push on the few percentage points that was required. There's no doubt that this was the most open championship since the Dubs started to dominate and with a little bit of luck along the way, the cards fell nicely for Logan and Dooher and to their credit they took full advantage. The really big test will be next year - can we kick on now and continue to evolve? I suspect McKenna, McShane and Canavan will be much better next year, none of them had the advantage of playing club championship football last year so i think this will further help their progress. The midfield is fledgling but has huge potential to improve and with a few more all stars and an All Ireland in the back pocket other players may just raise a level too. Its going to be some championship next year.

[Estimator]

If Tyrone are clear of any injuries and form hasn't dipped from any of their forward line, who is their front 6 for the first rd of next year's Championship?

[Armagh18]

If Dooher and Logan had been managing during the years of Dublin's dominance they would have won nothing either. Tyrone have not improved any from what I can see, the quality from the other teams ie Dublin and Mayo just isn't there to the same level as previous years, all Tyrone had to do was stay at their previous level to be the best.

Not a chance. This Tyrone team is flying and have been nowhere as good going forward under Harte for a few years. They'd have given Dublin their fill of it, certainly better than the 2017 semi and the 2018 final where they rolled over. 

[trueblue1234]

There's no way of knowing that tbf. But I do expect that the next time we meet Dublin, the team will have their AI medals and will go into the game believing they not only could win, but should win. Sometimes that genuine belief can make a huge difference.

[Maroon Manc]

Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

Totally agree. My point was really that Mayo aren't scoring enough in finals to win them. Missing clear cut goal chances saps the confidence of the whole team. 0.15 won't win too many finals but 2.15 would be hard to beat most times. Mckenna showed a level of composure that IMO was beyond any of the Mayo forwards.

Mayo for a team with so many great individual defenders were opened up a lot, Tyrone missed plenty of easy chances. That 2nd goal was coming from the long kickout had been coming since early on and was a very obvious tactic that Horan had done nothing to negate. I listened to a good few podcasts during the build up and plenty from Mayo thought it needed to be a low scoring game for Mayo to win, conceding 2-14 is always going to make it nigh on impossible to win especially when you've got a half forward line and a full forward who barely contribute to the scoreboard. Even with Cillian O'Connor back next year I don't see Mayo winning it with Horan's tactics, its a definition of madness to keep making the same mistakes time and time again.