AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain

[Blowitupref]

I genuinely believe that the 'curse' has actually become a curse. The more it is spoken about, coupled with the more often Mayo lose, the more in the minds of people the curse becomes a reality. There is a real subconscious belief in my opinion that they cannot win and this is a real mental block.

Every player in any sport at the top level has an ego. Some wear pinks boots they're that confident, some express it through bleached hair, some just get on with the business of the game and point to the scoreboard when the verbals start. I believe that this 'ego' within the Mayo set up is a false ego. Mentally they think they have it in the, but when push comes to shove they really don't. I often tell a story of an AI club final I played in which we won but never should have.  With 10 minutes to go a comment was made to a Mayo legend about Mayo teams crumbling in AI final and you could actually see him physically shrinking in front of you. That's deep seated. That was over 20 years ago. No amount of sports psychologists will break that. It's there forever until that man dies and then there honestly will be a flood of media coverage of it and it will be like a weight off peoples shoulders. I know it isn't real, I know it isn't logical but the mind is not fully understood and if you hear something often enough and repeat it often enough it becomes 'real'.

Interesting but also surely that is too simplistic given that at that point in time Mayo would not have had anywhere near the same level of fatalism attached to them.. How did that even manifest itself, did the Mayo player break down after being sledged about losing All Ireland finals?

I don't believe in any of the curse nonsense. When that last sole survivor passes away Mayo will still have to overcome the mental barrier of winning an AI final.

Was it just the starting 15 from 1951 just cursed because one of the unused subs Mick Loftus is still alive also.

[trueblue1234]

I think we're analysing things to death now. I'd say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you'll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I'd expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them's the breaks.

[Applesisapples]

Jack O'Se missed a penalty in an All Ireland Final.  Even the greatest players struggle with penalties in gaelic, it is by no means a gimme.  I'm sure there's a stat somewhere showing the conversion rate.

Penalties in Gaelic football are no gimme, smaller nets than soccer and Morgan is a big lad. He hit the post so not far off target and to beat Morgan would need it in the corner.

[Captain Obvious]

To echo a point made earlier..   its amazing that Tyrone beat  Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo on the way to wining an AI and all many of the pundits can talk about is how poor Mayo and Kerry were.

I think pundits do this to excuse their pre-match predictions if they were wrong
ie "I said Mayo would win and I would have been correct if x, y, z didn't happen"

Fans of both sides will naturally focus more on their team - what could have been better, while ignoring (or partly glossing over) the same type of what-ifs for the opposition.

Or sometimes teams actually do beat themselves and lose a game they should have won hands down. Off the top of my head I can think of at least two big championship games in recent years where Tyrone beat themselves rather than have the opposition do it for them - 2010 against Dublin and 2016 against Mayo. They should have had both of those in their pockets and conspired to throw them away with ridiculous profligacy. That's what Mayo did in the 2013, 2016 and 2017 finals

Fixed that for you.

[maddog]

Jack O'Se missed a penalty in an All Ireland Final.  Even the greatest players struggle with penalties in gaelic, it is by no means a gimme.  I'm sure there's a stat somewhere showing the conversion rate.

Charlie Redmond missed three crucial penalties in big finals, two of them All Irelands. Whether or not you think he was a great player, he was an elite placed ball specialist.

Redmond was not an elite penalty taker. His penalties were woejus, he seemed to completely lose the head and have no plan for what to do. As did other Dublin players of the time who took penalties.

Trevor Giles was also a free taking specialist and missed two penalties in All-Irelands. He also scored one. Against Mayo, of course.

Anyone know what Kieran McGurks (rip) penalty record was ? Never seen him miss one.

[yellowcard]

I think we're analysing things to death now. I'd say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you'll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I'd expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them's the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.     

[CK_Redhand]

Yip this all Ireland will have an asterik beside it as "the one where a penalty should have been retaken that would have put mayo a point up with 30 minutes left to play." \s

[trueblue1234]

I think we're analysing things to death now. I'd say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you'll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I'd expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them's the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.   

It's one of a multitude of decisions that go one way or the other in a game. I think your over egging it TBH. I agree the other one could have been called a penalty as well. Just as the McCurry tackle could have been a BC or the first point could have been blown for charging. I think it's usually a good signal when there's been few Mayo fans complaining about it. That tends to signal the significance of the incident.

[yellowcard]

I think we're analysing things to death now. I'd say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you'll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I'd expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them's the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.   

It's one of a multitude of decisions that go one way or the other in a game. I think your over egging it TBH. I agree the other one could have been called a penalty as well. Just as the McCurry tackle could have been a BC or the first point could have been blown for charging. I think it's usually a good signal when there's been few Mayo fans complaining about it. That tends to signal the significance of the incident.

I think probably at this stage that the Mayo fans don't even want to begin thinking about the match, and understandably so. If I was a Mayo supporter the last thing I would want to do is rewatch that match again and I'm not saying that McQuillan was the reason for the defeat. Far from it. The reason I brought it up was to counter the argument that McQuillan was biased against Tyrone which somebody posted up earlier in the thread. Mayo didn't deserve to win imo but that is not to say that those incidents and the non award of a retaken spot kick did not impact the direction of the match.   

[tiempo]

Jack O'Se missed a penalty in an All Ireland Final.  Even the greatest players struggle with penalties in gaelic, it is by no means a gimme.  I'm sure there's a stat somewhere showing the conversion rate.

Penalties in Gaelic football are no gimme, smaller nets than soccer and Morgan is a big lad. He hit the post so not far off target and to beat Morgan would need it in the corner.

100%. Its a game of inches, and lets call a spade a spade, Tyrone rode their luck at times to keep a clean sheet.

His technique doesn't come into it, he tried his best to pick his spot under immense pressure, was a solid effort.

Anyone can miss a penalty, its a very indiscriminate affliction, credit to the fella for stepping up.

[trueblue1234]

I think we're analysing things to death now. I'd say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you'll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I'd expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them's the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.   

It's one of a multitude of decisions that go one way or the other in a game. I think your over egging it TBH. I agree the other one could have been called a penalty as well. Just as the McCurry tackle could have been a BC or the first point could have been blown for charging. I think it's usually a good signal when there's been few Mayo fans complaining about it. That tends to signal the significance of the incident.

I think probably at this stage that the Mayo fans don't even want to begin thinking about the match, and understandably so. If I was a Mayo supporter the last thing I would want to do is rewatch that match again and I'm not saying that McQuillan was the reason for the defeat. Far from it. The reason I brought it up was to counter the argument that McQuillan was biased against Tyrone which somebody posted up earlier in the thread. Mayo didn't deserve to win imo but that is not to say that those incidents and the non award of a retaken spot kick did not impact the direction of the match.   

I don't think McQuillan was biased either. Just missed a fair bit for both sides. Don't think Mayo will be looking back and thinking the ref cost us that one.

[imtommygunn]

Ref had no real bearing on game. Best team won. More belief, better individually, signficantly better tactically.

[seafoid]

I don't think there was a turning point. The Tyrone backs were already dominant in the 1st half

[Jayop]

Ref had no real bearing on game. Best team won. More belief, better individually, signficantly better tactically.

I'd agree with that. Both teams had a few things they could moan about from the ref but they probably balance out over the course of the game. Mayo lost because Tyrone played better than them on the day.

[imtommygunn]

Exactly. Also people are saying it now gives hope to Meath, Kildare, Monaghan, Armagh etc etc. There are none of those teams capable of putting together a defensive performance like Tyrone did in the semi final or final.

It was like 08 the way they built up in 08. Just got significantly better as a team each game until peak.

N.b. I wanted them to lose if I'm honest but they were excellent on Saturday and were just far too good.