Money is Destroying the Game

[Mayo4Sam]

Well I talk about Mayo because that's what I know. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.

The point is there are a group of teams behind Kerry and Dublin that have similar funding, some of those are competing and others aren't. That means funding isn't the only metric for success.

Having said all that I think Mayo could easily drop off if they had a bad year/manager/run of results and I wouldn't be overly confident that they'd be back (likewise with Donegal) but surely this has always been the case?
It's time for Offaly, Laois and in particular Meath and Kildare to stand up and be counted in Leinster

[Teo Lurley]

Kerry Group and AIG are publicly listed companies with their financial statements freely available and the stock holders calling the shots so if either company were paying anything but the going rate for sponsoring a team with their particular public profile the stock holders would be up in arms.
Since 2000, the games Kerry have played in Croke Park have generated over €100 million in ticket sales alone, so any money the GAA give to Kerry the GAA get serious ROI back.

Obviously everyone is getting very defensive over this. Kerry don't just get their finance from Kerry Group or the GAA, before you ask no I don't have the exact figures or anything but denying this would be treating us like fools.
This isn't about knocking counties or anything, this is about trying to make the game fair for all. The game is dying in some counties, it will end up with 8 teams or so competing just like hurling. Is this what people want?

[Mayo4Sam]

It can't always be the establishments fault though, counties have to stand up and be counted as well.
We spent the 70s without a Connacht title FFS and it could happen again!

[Teo Lurley]

Leo, would you accept that it's unlikely that Mayo and Donegal are spending to the same degree as Kerry and Dublin?
If you do accept that would you then accept that Galway, Meath, Kildare, Tyrone , Cork and Armagh are all probably spending similar amounts?
Given that we don't know the figures I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption.

Given all that it shows that it's not just money, it's structures and professional processes.

Mayo had a five year plan which although shelved actually was partially implemented, we had a very professional manager come in (likewise with Donegal) and we had an exceptional group of players (likewise with Donegal).
Looking at the other teams they seem to be missing the structure in some counties (Galway, Cork, Kdare, Meath) and the players in others (Armagh, Tyrone, Meath, Kildare, Cork)

So I agree money is needed but it's not just that.

That is more on the money (pardon the pun). Kerry and Dublin have significantly more resources than any other County. Lets look at

Dublin first.
Massive Gate receipts. Huge Sponsorship from a number of benefactors. Always play at home so players, coaches, trainers all teams, supporters etc don't have the cost burden of traveling for training and/or staying in a different remote location. Huge payback, costs and savings here here I would say.

Kerry
Sponsored by Kerry Group which is valued at what - several billion? A couple million a year is not that much to them. Anyway here's a story about the Kerry U16s. They were training hard this year and to help get them to peak fitness they got that gear (see Tyrone wearing it e.g. Cavanaghs back) to monitor distance and other stuff. I understand it's not cheap but maybe it is? Anyway - the U16s won the All Ireland. But this was the girls U-16 team. Moral of the story is that if this is what they have available for U-16 girls - well you can only imagine what is available at Senior mens inter-county.

We all know Dublin and Kerry are way out in front of this but let's not getting into a game of throwing muck at eachother. Finance needs to be sorted countrywide, from those who are spending too much to those who haven't got two pennies to rub together.

[Teo Lurley]

Well I talk about Mayo because that's what I know. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.

The point is there are a group of teams behind Kerry and Dublin that have similar funding, some of those are competing and others aren't. That means funding isn't the only metric for success.

Having said all that I think Mayo could easily drop off if they had a bad year/manager/run of results and I wouldn't be overly confident that they'd be back (likewise with Donegal) but surely this has always been the case?
It's time for Offaly, Laois and in particular Meath and Kildare to stand up and be counted in Leinster

That's what I'm saying, counties need to stand together on this. No point getting dragged down in who's spending what although some of it is crazy. It's not just one province that needs to stand together either and it's us ordinary members who elect our officials so we have to make our voice heard.

[comeysfield]

Money in the game is an absolute issue and HQ needs to try to put a CAP or some form of control on this so there is some form of level playing ground. I know this is socialism but look at AMerican football and the AFL in the most capitalist countries in the world they in effect have CAPs and structures to ensure there is continuous auto leveling  Even here in little old Cavan the senior setup are having to get Third Parties to fund major elements. While the county board is spending 500K on all teams  so when it broken down the senior setup does not get anything like some other counties. A lot of other funds are coming in via business people a classic example our weekend away in New York funded by a group of people. A lot of funding in Cavan went into U21 and that made a difference, Training weekends / proper food different speacilist coaches etc. Jimbo in Donegal had to sort out funding to win an All -Ireland. Team number 4 this year also has a very good fund raising structure as do some other counties. So rather than the key factor being Players / ability etc suddenly it becomes about having the funding structure right. Ultimately there is now a Funding Arms war starting to happen in football if we want to keep our ethos. Then something has to be stopped or we just go semi- pro and get on with it. Somehow / somewhere I do not believe we want to go pro so HQ needs to step in and start levelling  the field somehow. I think proper controls on the background teams and real enforcement would be a start. Player expenses are controlled so now the Mind Managers and Mentors and Training camps etc need control. Or we just say grand Ulster is the only province that is competitive. Roscommon have funding structures in place so they will come, Cork surely will shoot the dinosaur that is stopping it in that county and then we will just see which county will spend oevr a Million and buy an All Ireland.

Note: this is not meant to be a criticism of any county, In the GAA what happens is  you play just enough outside the rules to not get caught. SO at the mooment fair play to Tyrone supporters club, Cute Kerry Hoors in New York, Dublin with AIG, Jimbo getting concerned citizens involved  etc. But, what is happening now is just not fair. Look at "Strong" football counties and see how they are now being left behind eg Meath, Galway, Cork  . I do not think any genuine GAA person who works in a club want to see Money becoming the big thing at county level. Otherwise this will come to the parish (already at Senior Level in lots of counties) ultimately this will destroy the very thing that makes us give of our free time and Volunteer.

Do we all want to see Mind Doctors, 30 Man Background teams, Speacilist GYM monkeys taking the good out of the whole thing eg Cavan trained at my club last Year counted over 20 Background  People. A lot of these lads giving freely of time so other "experts" could gain 

   

[Rossfan]

. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.

2011 Census - Mayo 131,000, Donegal 160,000.

All Counties' sponsorships could have 50% hived off to a special "equalisation fund". However we'd likely then see very small amounts being openly given as sponsorship and all sorts of hidden extras e.g  paying for training camps or bus hire, hotel hire etc etc etc
In the murky world of outside financing of things GAA we'll never know how much flows to different Counties.

[Mayo4Sam]

. I'll lump Donegal in with us, although their population is almost double ours.

2011 Census - Mayo 131,000, Donegal 160,000.

Exactly, almost double!

Sorry, my bad, for some reason I thought we were 95k

[deiseach]

All Counties' sponsorships could have 50% hived off to a special "equalisation fund". However we'd likely then see very small amounts being openly given as sponsorship and all sorts of hidden extras e.g  paying for training camps or bus hire, hotel hire etc etc etc
In the murky world of outside financing of things GAA we'll never know how much flows to different Counties.

It's not hard to imagine the Kerry County Board suddenly receiving 'sponsorship' in the form of head a cattle.

[mrhardyannual]

Mayo spending on Senior Football team was as follows in 2014:
Travel          €438k
Catering      €084k
Medical        €064K
Gear            €024k
Total           €610K (down from €646k in 2013)

Total income of County Board €2.124million    Expenditure €2.045 million  Surplus €79k

Source: Mayo GAA audited accounts 2014.   Available in detail on Official Mayo GAA Website

[Nihilist]

My last post on this subject until after we're out of championship or it's over.

I agree it should be a more level playing field but I don't see how you implement it. If counties have the money they will spend it if it has a chance of garnering success. If you try and limit these amounts it will just drive the money underground but it will still be spent regardless. And it won't effect the outcome of the championship or help lesser counties.

Kerry and Dublin will still come through as will the other stalwarts if the players are available. Other changes need to be made including re-structure of the League maybe and defo pushing Dublin out of Croker for a change. Leinster has died a death.

As to Mayo well the good times won't last forever with us. And we know it. So we enjoy this success while we can. hopefully the team can get what they deserve out of it for all the guts and determination they have shown to keep coming back through all the heartache they have suffered.

[Syferus]

My last post on this subject until after we're out of championship or it's over.

I agree it should be a more level playing field but I don't see how you implement it. If counties have the money they will spend it if it has a chance of garnering success. If you try and limit these amounts it will just drive the money underground but it will still be spent regardless. And it won't effect the outcome of the championship or help lesser counties.

Kerry and Dublin will still come through as will the other stalwarts if the players are available. Other changes need to be made including re-structure of the League maybe and defo pushing Dublin out of Croker for a change. Leinster has died a death.

As to Mayo well the good times won't last forever with us. And we know it. So we enjoy this success while we can. hopefully the team can get what they deserve out of it for all the guts and determination they have shown to keep coming back through all the heartache they have suffered.

Please don't equate hard to police with impossible to police. Many sports throughout the world have spending caps. American pro sports do it very effectively.

[DuffleKing]

Mayo spending on Senior Football team was as follows in 2014:
Travel          €438k
Catering      €084k
Medical        €064K
Gear            €024k
Total           €610K (down from €646k in 2013)

Total income of County Board €2.124million    Expenditure €2.045 million  Surplus €79k

Source: Mayo GAA audited accounts 2014.   Available in detail on Official Mayo GAA Website

Officially...

[macdanger2]

Whether you like him or not, Teo is largely correct on this. Without having figures to hand, I'd wager that the top spending counties are the most successful - Mayo, Dublin, kerry, Donegal, cork, tyrone. It's not the only reason (some counties spend plenty but waste it and aren't successful) but it's certainly contributory and some effort should be made to level the playing field. 

Now the figures would need to be standardised to compare counties including:
- No of clubs in the county (the higher the number, the more money you'd need obviously)
- Size of the county (the further you have to travel, the more you'd need to spend)
- How far you go in the league / championship in a given year (literally!! If you have more long distance away games, it costs more than a home game or local derby)
- How much you raise from your supporters club (if one county is well-organised, they shouldn't have to pay for a county who doesn't make any effort)

Then you'd need to consider benefit in kind that would inevitably come into play if a spending cap was introduced, how would it be policed?

It's certainly doable but I can't see much will to change at present tbh

[twohands!!!]

Where do Monaghan and Cork as Division 1 teams fit into the money is required to be a serious team argument?