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Two thirds of the people in ICU In the ROI who have Covid have not been vaccinated. Now 91% of adults in the ROI have been vaccinated, so that two-thirds is coming out of 9% of the population, so 20 times the rate of responsible people.

Whereas you'd believe that fully, I'd question that. It doesn't add up when you look at death statistics in the north.

People under 40 are not dying in any number up north and they are highest proportion of unvaccinated by a huge percentage. They are the highest proportion of positive cases. They account for over 50% of cases in the past 6/7 weeks yet only account for 0.8% of deaths.

u40s - over 50% of cases, only 0.8% of deaths
over 40s - under 50% of cases 99.2% of deaths

u40s - the least vaccinated cohort
over 40s - the highest vaccinated cohort

Yet we are meant to believe that 67% of people in ICU are unvaccinated? Seems incredible. Do we have a huge amount of unvaccinated over 80s or something?

So how does it stack up that the highest vaccinated groupings are still the ones getting severely ill and dying from Covid, while the unvaccinated are not. That's why these claims simply crumble when scrutinised. Here's a snapshot for you.


This is from the 27th August:





So at the 27th August we had 111k~ positive cases in the u40 category. 11 deaths in the u40 category.

Up until yesterday





On 10th Oct we have 146k~ positive cases in the u40 category, 13 deaths. No further deaths in the 0-19 category in 22k further positive cases. 2 deaths in the 20-39 category in 13k additional cases.

On the other hand we have 25 additional deaths in the 40-59 grouping in 13k~ additional cases and additional 222 deaths of people over the age of 60 in under 13k~ additional cases. It's clear the people getting ill and dying from Covid are those who are elderly or in bad health - to spin it as a vaccination issue does not stand up to the data. So if you're coming on here regurgitating lines you heard that fail any sort of probing of the data, then it merely serves to make you look extremely naive.

The cohort with the highest vaccination rates and least positive cases over 60s saw around 10k cases and over 200 deaths. The cohort with the smallest vaccination rate saw 24k cases and 2 deaths. And you're telling us you're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you're unvaccinated? Incredible. You're more likely to get seriously ill or die if you are elderly, have an underlying health condition or are in poor health. These are the people who need to get vaccinated and these are the people who need to take the necessary precautions and those who interact with them need to do so.

What's more selfish?

A vaccinated healthcare worker heading over to England at the weekened to go out on a weekend in Liverpool in packed pubs or an unvaccinated healthcare worker who limits her social contacts? Who poses the greatest threat to contraction and transmission of the virus?

Some of you chaps seem utterly incapable of analysing what you are being told and what you are regurgitating.

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

What's the stats on likelihood of a reaction to the vaccine by someone of your profile? I'm assuming you've compared the risks?

Extremely remote I'd imagine. More remote than from Covid I'd say. I've no issue acknowledging that.

But not getting a vaccine doesn't mean you will get Covid, not getting the vaccine doesn't mean you don't already have immunity from it, it doesn't mean the immunity you get from the vaccine is better than what you have already have. So many variables, so many unknown.

It's one shade of remoteness vs another shade of remoteness. I've given the vaccine a lot of thought, for someone in my position I just don't see any real upside to it, the benefit is utterly negligible in my view. I've looked at it pragmatically and logically so I respect people who have came to their conclusions by doing the same as me if it led to a different outcome. If you're happy to get the vaccine, it's your choice and I'm not going to tell you did right or wrong. I just wish there was a respect and some people didn't deal in false narratives and propaganda.

The facts are there in the above stats. 67% of the current icu patients are unvaccinated. Coming from only 25% of the population who are unvaccinated.

I don't need to guess or try and guesstimate anything. It's there. It's a fact. If people are reading that and still want to go against all the medical  bodies and advice. Well, I reserve the right to think they either overvalue their own intelligence.

I think it's relevant that you give context.

I could be 200x more likely to win the Euromillions on Tuesday night if I deploy a complex algorithm when choosing my numbers.

I'm still not going to win the lotto though in reality.

You could be 18x time more likely to make the Tyrone panel next year if you jacked in your job, hired a personal trainer, nutritionist and chef and became a full time athlete. It's still not going to happen.

[you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.]

Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.

So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.

You don't do irony, do you? Just about average scientist on the planet has tested the premise that the vaccines are as safe as any other vaccine and recommend we all take it, yet along comes you to tell us that you know better.

Nope. You don't do irony.

Science is conflicted on a lot of things, including Covid, including vaccines.

You seem to be selectively ignoring deaths associated with the vaccine, serious side effects associated with the vaccines, medical authorities in certain countries halting certain vaccines, suspending certain vaccines for use with particular age categories due to side effects associated with them that caused death and serious illness.

Now, why are you dealing in misinformation here? These are established facts, I don't deny the chances of this are extremely remote but we are talking about varying degrees of remoteness. The data clearly backs up that Covid is of minimal threat to fit and healthy u40s with no underlying medical conditions. If you want to have an argument over remoteness or probabilities you can't just completely dismiss one side of the story because it undermines your illogical position.

You do realise that that 67% comes from a around 25% of the population who are unvaccinated. I'm not a mathematician so someone else can work out the % of the current icu make up in relation to general population.
Plus that rate was for the U50's as we were chatting about you specifically as an U40.

So 18x more likely?

18x of what?

What's the odds you end up in hospital if you're under 40, fit and healthy?

1 in 50,000 say?

So that then drops down to 1 in 3,000 if you aren't vaccinated and that's if they actually get Covid and if they haven't already got natural immunity? Can you see why people look at that information and come to the conclusion a vaccine offers negligible benefits to them?

Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.

So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.

Some figures.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.rte.ie/amp/1252794/

67% currently unvaccinated. Given the numbers of vaccinated v unvaccinated in the general population that's unreal.

You do realise 67% is exectively 2:1 unvaccinated to vaccinated not 18:1?

Yes?

So now do you see how ridiculous the assertion that you are 18x more likely to end up in hospital if you're unvaccinated is?

It's a feature in every county, even the most successful ones. Jack McCaffrey walked away from a record breaking All Ireland winning team that he was central to. It's a huge commitment that takes over a person's life. To be committing that much and not getting game time must be very difficult. Comments have been pretty harsh on this matter IMO.

Ah ya, you can understand that. I think the issue have here is that this seems to be club driven rather than individuals. I think if McAliskey had been patient he could have played a big role this year. He's 30 now though and a few bad injuries in the past few seasons so maybe they have taken their toll. I feel a little for him but I think he should have shown a bit more patience.

I don't think McNulty is anywhere near the shape you need to be in for intercounty football with all due respect and McClure was poor today and never really established himself at intercounty. McClure actually walked off the panel after he started a game against Armagh, on the face of it you have to say it looked a bit petulant - he got hooked after a poor first half display and walked.

Every international stat shows that unvaccinated people are 8, 10 or more times as likely to be in hospital, depending on their age. Any attempt to claim otherwise is fantasy.

So 32 of the 35 in ICU with Covid are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

330 of the 360 Covid patients in hospital are unvaccinated if we apply that statistic?

See that's the thing, you boys are very quick to roll out statistics you've heard of, you don't ever seem to bother applying logic to what you're hearing and test the premise.

PJ Lavery is another one. Brilliant club player over the past 10 years.

I think he was on the panel for Tyrone in 2015 and getting game time in nearly every league game albeit mostly off the bench, think he got a goal down in Castlebar in a league game. Anyway the league finished up and Lavery and Dwayne Quinn dropped off the panel, it was also Quinn's first year on the panel and he had also featured in some games. Lavery certainly would have had a lot to offer Tyrone over the past 10 years.

It's not a good culture to have in a club, I think clubs should do everything in their power to facilitate their players to play at the top level. That type of stuff has taken over football in Derry and destroyed them as a county team.

Are we talking about the same Errigal team that mustered 3 pts in a county final two seasons ago V Trillick and got beat in the semi final last season by Dungannon. Frightening prospect!!

Errigal were good but can read nothing into that game, pathetic from Clonoe. They look in a bad state going forward, don't really get the idea of playing McNulty so far out the pitch when he doesn't have the mobility for it.

Fairly pathetic display from Clonoe. For the money McDonnell is likely commanding they look a very unfit side. McClure, McNulty and McAliskey all very poor - bar Patrick Doris and PJ Lavery nobody turned up for them.

Darragh Canavan has been sensational. Errigal look good but hard to judge really given how bad Clonoe have been.

Are unvaccinated people responsible for all infections? Latest figures I'm seeing in the North is 1,000-1,300 a day. Are you telling me that around  1 person in 10 is responsible for all those numbers? As if those unjabbed are all going around with no masks, sneezing  in people's faces, doing feck all social distancing?

I've ssid it before, over the last few months, since more and more  people have been vaccinated, more and more people are doing less and less mask wearing, social distancing,  congregating in big number indoors etc etc. If you're looking at why there's up to 1,300 daily cases, and why the health service is still under pressure, then maybe you need to look at these people.

Figures out this wk show for NI show you are 18 times more likely to be hospitalised for Covid if you are unvaccinated than vaccinated. That's the biggest reason right there. Would you prefer a lockdown to deal with Covid instead? To reduce these large numbers mixing? That's your solution?

This is just incredible. You fully believe that in the past week there were 18 unvaccinated Covid hospital admissions compared for every vaccinated hospital admission.

If you look at the death stats for the past month, the overwhelming amount of deaths are over 60s. Are the vast majority of over 60s not fully vaccinated? Maybe upward of 80% of over 60s?

The next notable statistic is cases, the vast majority of cases are now school children, under the age of 14, it's been that way for over a good month? And these people are generally not been hospitalised and are clearly not dying.

So if you are repeating that statement and not even questioning the veracity of it then I think it tells you that you'd swallow anything you're told.



That's the statistics on Covid cases at present. It's the 7 day average, it's been fairly steady at that over the past month.

Now, can you confirm the number of hospital admissions under the age of 15 (a wholly unvaccinated grouping). According to that we've had around 5k steady positive cases in each of the past 4 weeks. That's around 20k unvaccinated positive cases in under 15s in the past month, all unvaccinated - how many deaths in the past 4 weeks under 15? Zero deaths. How many hospital admissions of under 15 in the past 4 weeks? How many under 15s in ICU with Covid in the past 4 weeks?

Surely by your 18 to 1 assertion that you swallowed without questioning, it should be loaded with hospitalised under 15s as they are the ones getting Covid now and they are the ones who are unvaccinated?

The fact is you are incapable of probing and challenging what you're told, you just accept it and repeat and this is why you begin to look a little bit silly.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-coronavirus-breakdown-shows-21779939.amp

And for adults under 50, whilst the numbers admitted to hospital are lower, an unvaccinated individual is almost 18 times as likely to need hospitalisation.

I'll take their word over yours.

Exactly. You'll take their word for it without any basis for taking their word for it.

Loughmacrory very impressive. Probably the most cohesive and best team performance so far.

Derrylaughan were fairly limited in contrast. Kennedy had a quiet game but Carney was very impressive and might be worth a run out at 11 for Tyrone in the early season, good kick passer and plays with his head up. Grimes was really good for Loughmacrory. Was he dropped off the panel this year or did he leave off his own accord, certainly worth a run next season.

Loughmacrory keeper has a mad 10 minute spell at the start of the second half that brought Derrylaughan into it, bar that Loughmacrory would have ran out handy.

Really looking forward to the second game here now. Errigal's bench looks very impressive.

And thats the fundamental problem in your position: it revolves around YOU. Yes you are at a loss risk of dying from covid. You are at a high risk of transmitting it though. That's the part you keep ignoring.

You're the one demanding other people conform to your viewpoint with little regard for them making their own independent choices and no respect shown to them if they differ from you. That's the selfish part you ignore. It doesn't revolve around your viewpoint, people should have the freedom to make informed decisions without coercion or insults.

They do work. That is a matter if verifiable fact.

Your stance on the jab seems to be all about the risk of catching it. The jab is not just a way to prevent catching it, it's a way to prevent transmitting it.

When the world's scientists say it is effective, where is your evidence for disagreeing?

Great so, why are you concerned if they work? Surely it's only those unvaccinated who in danger so and if they choose to be in danger then that's their problem.

My stance on the vaccine is that the data shows my chance of getting seriously ill or dying from Covid is absolutely minimal.

I acknowledge my chance of having an adverse reaction that could cause serious illness or death from the vaccine are more remote than the minimal chance of Covid.

I also factor in that I may never actually get Covid so may never actually get exposed to something that gives me that minimal chance in the first place whereas I would voluntarily be giving myself the thing that exposes me to a more remote chance of adverse side effect.

Finally I don't know anything about my own immunity, it's quite possible I've had Covid unknowingly already and have immunity. I can't understand why mass antibody testing hasn't been carried out.

I've considered all the above and arrived at a logical position for me. I am happy for people to do their own analysis of the situation and make their own personal decisions.

Unfortunately all the above is common sense, it's pragmatic, rational, logical and sensible and the biggest problem it seems for some people who have got the vaccine, it not only has it made them immune from Covid but a side effect is it has made them immune from common sense too.