I wonder will anyone from the nationalist community be celebrating the foundation of the state in which they live? The state that discriminated against them for 50 years. The state that only reflects the culture and ethnicity of just over 50% of the population whilst denying the other 50% any recognition. The state that has allowed a loyalist banner become it's "national flag" and one that equates Irish culture language and sport with sectarianism. Personally for me no.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:20:26 PM
I wonder will anyone from the nationalist community be celebrating the foundation of the state in which they live? The state that discriminated against them for 50 years. The state that only reflects the culture and ethnicity of just over 50% of the population whilst denying the other 50% any recognition. The state that has allowed a loyalist banner become it's "national flag" and one that equates Irish culture language and sport with sectarianism. Personally for me no.
We should fly a black flag for 100 days.
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Plenty will - most of them use the term 'northern ireland' ffs.
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Plenty will - most of them use the term 'northern ireland' ffs.
That's just a term and by saying it won't make you less a person, by the same token saying occupied 6 doesn't make you a better person..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:03:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Plenty will - most of them use the term 'northern ireland' ffs.
That's just a term and by saying it won't make you less a person, by the same token saying occupied 6 doesn't make you a better person..
How the heck can you be a nationalist and use that term ffs?
What does it say on the Executive Ministers and MLAs payslips?
Do they get seals of office and if so what dies it say on them.
What are the MLAs members of?
Technically "NI" was established in 1920 along with the stillborn "Southern Ireland".
That "NI" ended in 1998 and a new "NI" was established by the "Northern Ireland Act 1998"
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 03:06:53 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:03:06 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Plenty will - most of them use the term 'northern ireland' ffs.
That's just a term and by saying it won't make you less a person, by the same token saying occupied 6 doesn't make you a better person..
How the heck can you be a nationalist and use that term ffs?
If you're the type to get bogged down on the term N.I then you're no better that the unionist who will only see things their way..
If you don't accept (rightly or wrongly) that we live alongside a different tradition (that unfortunately has had the means to discriminate against catholic's for well over 60 plus years) Then you are no different to the loyalist thug up the Shankill
I live in Ireland. I recognise as being Irish and enjoy my Irish culture. What part of Ireland I live in won't change anytime soon.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Neither did I or with BT, I did get one with Harlands and Shortts though..
You're a bit older than me though ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Neither did I or with BT, I did get one with Harlands and Shortts though..
You're a bit older than me though ;D
Your first name wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb in Dundonald though.
Your home address might though ;D
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Neither did I or with BT, I did get one with Harlands and Shortts though..
You're a bit older than me though ;D
Your first name wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb in Dundonald though.
Your home address might though ;D
Blatant sectarianism can be challenged under fair employment law, but quite often it's easier to avoid working in a lob sided workforce, thus allowing sectarian attitudes to continue to fester on both sides.
Though I feel partition was anti-democratic and sectarian, I will refer to NI on occasion for convenience as rightly or wrongly it is a recognised jurisdiction and we all have to use it on official documentation in referring to organisations such as Psni, hscni. In reality NI is a dead man walking, it can not continue in its current form as it has been an unmitigated disaster . It's disappointing to see the leader of NI already coat trailing re celebrating a state formed and steeped in sectarianism ,which many unionists are embarrassed about. If I were Arlene et al, I'd be careful what I would wish for. Celebrating NI100 gives an opportunity for nationalists , republicans , egalitarians and even economists , to again expose the ignominious history of this state. NI got some leg up , when initially I think 80% of the GDP of the island was in Belfast. UK has heavily subsidised NI , resulting in unsustainable levels of public sector employment. Divisive Orange culture has been given an elevated status that embarrasses most unionists I know .
New constitutional arrangements on this island are inevitable, but it's essential that the Britishness of unionists is fostered , encouraged and promoted. Whatever the new constitutional arrangements are they must sufficiently champion the respective cultures, to aim
For buyin from
All communities. The failure of NI remains that it never championed Irish culture and therefore never gained that Buyin. Going forward , "In your face" republicanism will only serve to antagonise a large unionist population on this island. It may sound cliched but let's use John Hume , RIP, as our template. Look at how he was respected by all, because he focussed on the normality of difference, and the importance of respecting that .
If Arlene, who Tbf had shown some positive moves lately, wants to put NI in the spotlight for NI100, let her fill her boots. Exposing NI to forensic scrutiny , will only go one way. Many had forgotten or were too young to experience pre-civil rights and the dirty war, increasing awareness will motivate nationalists , embarrass many unionists, and even Arlene and her cohorts can't believe there's much to celebrate .
It reminds me of that surreal patronising advert on TV during the troubles , when there was mayhem on the streets, with the accompanying jingle "come on Northern Ireland, come on, there's a whole lot of work to be done " ....there'll be some job of work sugar-coating NI🤔
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Neither did I or with BT, I did get one with Harlands and Shortts though..
You're a bit older than me though ;D
Your first name wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb in Dundonald though.
Your home address might though ;D
Theres a lad that started his apprenticeship in Harlands, has a Senior county Championship medal playing for Rossa, he's called Sean Murphy, can ya imagine lol
Unionists have to make a song and dance about Norn Iron's centenary. If they didn't, that would be admitting that Norn Iron was, and is, a failed state, and not worth celebrating. No Unionist worth the name would dare admit that. They have to peddle their "NI was a great idea" rhetoric.
Even the dogs on the street know that.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 04:39:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:50:47 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 03:36:39 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2020, 03:34:09 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I am of that generation old enough to have been discriminated against. I won't go in to detail. But I was also fortunate in that my parents would have been relatively better off than our neighbours but still poor.
Didn't even get an interview with NIE back in the day, much to the surprise of my careers teacher back in the day, my first name is a bit of a give away and the job would have been based in Dundonald.
Miss was my mercy
Neither did I or with BT, I did get one with Harlands and Shortts though..
You're a bit older than me though ;D
Your first name wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb in Dundonald though.
Your home address might though ;D
Theres a lad that started his apprenticeship in Harlands, has a Senior county Championship medal playing for Rossa, he's called Sean Murphy, can ya imagine lol
what name is on the birth cert? ;)
Problem is that our tax money will be used to bloody help them celebrate it.
As I said, any so-called nationalist who uses the term -nothern ireland' needs to have a chat with themselves.
This old, ah, but it makes no difference to me...I'm still Irish, are the type of people who buy into the statelet mentality of 'our wee country' and are the type of people who tick northern irish on their census form.
Most obviously, they're the biggest GAA people about!!
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
As I said, any so-called nationalist who uses the term -nothern ireland' needs to have a chat with themselves.
This old, ah, but it makes no difference to me...I'm still Irish, are the type of people who buy into the statelet mentality of 'our wee country' and are the type of people who tick northern irish on their census form.
Most obviously, they're the biggest GAA people about!!
But you're bitter, I get that. You can't live alongside prods. Do yourself a favour and relax.
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
Yes, but symbols like the tri colour, Irish anthem, shamrock, harp etc won't be considered as equality in unionist eyes. Look at how the city hall fleg vote panned out. Nationalists wanted a tri colour at Stormont etc. Unionists will behave in the same way. Unionists in a UI might get equality in terms of Jobs, housing, education maybe, but anyone can find an equality issue if you look for it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 06:10:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
As I said, any so-called nationalist who uses the term -nothern ireland' needs to have a chat with themselves.
This old, ah, but it makes no difference to me...I'm still Irish, are the type of people who buy into the statelet mentality of 'our wee country' and are the type of people who tick northern irish on their census form.
Most obviously, they're the biggest GAA people about!!
But you're bitter, I get that. You can't live alongside prods. Do yourself a favour and relax.
Me thinks you doth protest too much!!
Maybe made you think about using the term 'northern ireland' and calling yourself a nationalist at the same time - that's not a bad thing.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
I once rang Crazy Prices in Craigavon looking about a summer job as a cleaner that they'd advertised in the paper.
Me: "Hello, I'm calling about the cleaning job that was advertised in the Lurgan Mail."
Him: "What's your name?"
Me:
told him my nameHim: "Give us your number and we'll call you back."
I gave him my number and never heard from them. If I said my name was Sammy Braithwaite or Billy Crozier I'm sure he'd have asked how soon I could start. I was only a young cub at the time so I took him at face value, but if I'd known better I'd have reported them to the Fair Employment Commission, for that was fairly blatant.
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 02:38:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2020, 02:27:56 PM
No one from a nationalist or republican background will give it a second thought.
By the same token only our parents and grandparents have been truly discriminated against... Be interested in knowing have any posters been discriminated against through education and jobs?
Being picked on by the peelers and army was a given Unfortunately, and even more so if your family was 'involved'
Personally a flag has had no bearing on me to be annoyed about. There's plenty on either side
Plenty will - most of them use the term 'northern ireland' ffs.
I'll usually say "the north" where the context is clear, at other times I don't mind using the name of the state. I find constructions like "the six counties" and "the north of Ireland" to be a bit clumsy. It reminds me of the people who go out of their way to say "Londonderry."
I certainly don't feel the need to say "Northern Ireland" twenty times in every sentence like Peter Robinson used to do.
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
As I said, any so-called nationalist who uses the term -nothern ireland' needs to have a chat with themselves.
This old, ah, but it makes no difference to me...I'm still Irish, are the type of people who buy into the statelet mentality of 'our wee country' and are the type of people who tick northern irish on their census form.
Most obviously, they're the biggest GAA people about!!
Just had a chat with myself. I'm okay. I don't feel any less Irish. You can calm down now.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2020, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2020, 05:34:18 PM
As I said, any so-called nationalist who uses the term -nothern ireland' needs to have a chat with themselves.
This old, ah, but it makes no difference to me...I'm still Irish, are the type of people who buy into the statelet mentality of 'our wee country' and are the type of people who tick northern irish on their census form.
Most obviously, they're the biggest GAA people about!!
Just had a chat with myself. I'm okay. I don't feel any less Irish. You can calm down now.
Lol..I've seemed to have touched a raw nerve with the 'ni' thing and their love of the gaa.
We're all questioning our very existence since you've told us you the rules are you can't be a nationalist and ever have used the term "northern ireland" ;D
Marty will make pure Nationalists out of ye yet ::)
What's he going to do when the new All Ireland State won't be an extension if South Armagh?
I try to not use the term, "be the change you want to effect" and all that good stuff.
But Marty, wise up.
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
Yeah the republican / nationalist "thought police" are fairly insufferable.
People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front type stuff really.
I tend to say the North or NI. If I'm abroad I'm Irish/from Ireland. None of this "Northern Irish shite".
I recognise Northern Ireland exists but I don't recognise its legitimacy so am reluctant to refer to it in name. I don't judge people that do, just find it cringey when I say it. Don't think any of that increases my republican credentials.
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
They're doing great, thanks for asking. But to answer your real point, the equation is quite simple, don't like their songs, don't listen to them. It's as simple as that. The fact that a lot of people do listen to them, well they're fully entitled to do so if they so wish. You mightn't like that fact, so what. Enjoy >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3x2ijOpMY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3x2ijOpMY)
Quote from: Chief on August 10, 2020, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
Yeah the republican / nationalist "thought police" are fairly insufferable.
People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front type stuff really.
I was at the Scór one night and chatting to this lady (I was a young cub at the time) about the different acts that we liked. Then she started asking me if I partook in any of the acts.
Her: Do you play Irish music?
Me: No
Her: Do you sing Irish songs?
Me: No
Her: Are you into Irish dancing?
Me: No
Her:Are you into Irish literature?
Me: No
Her (disapprovingly): Well what do you do?
Me: Irish language
Her: Oh...
I think I passed her purity test eventually.
Something I was once told was that no Irishman has the right to put another Irishman to the test to prove his Irishness.
To paraphrase what someone once said about Derry.....
You call it what you like but don't tell me what to call it .
Yeah, I mean forget about being involved with the GAA in whatever capacity, you don't get a gold star on the prove you're a true fenian test until you become a Celtic fan and proudly tell everyone how staunchly you refuse to use the phrase "Northern Ireland".
f**king embarrassing.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 10, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
To paraphrase what someone once said about Derry.....
You call it what you like but don't tell me what to call it .
That's it in a nutshell
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 10, 2020, 09:04:23 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 10, 2020, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
Yeah the republican / nationalist "thought police" are fairly insufferable.
People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front type stuff really.
I was at the Scór one night and chatting to this lady (I was a young cub at the time) about the different acts that we liked. Then she started asking me if I partook in any of the acts.
Her: Do you play Irish music?
Me: No
Her: Do you sing Irish songs?
Me: No
Her: Are you into Irish dancing?
Me: No
Her:Are you into Irish literature?
Me: No
Her (disapprovingly): Well what do you do?
Me: Irish language
Her: Oh...
I think I passed her purity test eventually.
Something I was once told was that no Irishman has the right to put another Irishman to the test to prove his Irishness.
When I was younger, Our family would have been considered very "Irish" in our club , whilst another family were considered the opposite by some. I remember a member of that family , basically Admitting he had no interest in the music dance and even language, he enjoyed soccer and cricket, but he assertively and proudly said "I'm every bit as Irish as you are" ....he was 100% right! I actually find it funny when someone claims to be more Irish than another, how can you possibly define this?
I won't use the term "Northern Ireland" if I can help it. I'll just say the north, the 6 counties etc.
Tbh, it doesn't bother me that much when people say it. If I ever hear Britain referred to as "the mainland" (TM) though... *shudder*
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
This.
The failed putrid statelet is in its death throes, English nationalism and Scottish independence will help put it out of its misery. Unionists will need to get over their Stockholm syndrome and realise the Brits don't give a flying fiddler's fcuk about them.
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
Since you asked, anyone who voted for the Good Friday Agreement agreed to recognise the
fact of the state's existence, while also recognizing our right to aspire to a different constitutional setup. It's okay to recognise the existence of the state, it doesn't mean you have to support it.
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2020, 12:10:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
This.
The failed putrid statelet is in its death throes, English nationalism and Scottish independence will help put it out of its misery. Unionists will need to get over their Stockholm syndrome and realise the Brits don't give a flying fiddler's fcuk about them.
And will you except their traditions when there is a UI?
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2020, 12:10:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
This.
The failed putrid statelet is in its death throes, English nationalism and Scottish independence will help put it out of its misery. Unionists will need to get over their Stockholm syndrome and realise the Brits don't give a flying fiddler's fcuk about them.
And will you except their traditions when there is a UI?
Good question.
As much as prods with a titter of wit are beginning to see that the Torys in England don't give two fiddlers for them we as Nationalists need to allay their fears that we won't behave in a UI the way they behaved when they'd a gerrymandered majority here.
Cloughey True Blues flute band could march up and down the shorefront all day every day if we were in a UI.
Dear Applesisapples,
I do not think Irish people in the North arent * "full Irish citizens".
I am not a "Southern Irishman". Western maybe.
* like most Irish Citizens who reside outside the 26 ye can't vote in Dáil or Presidential Elections or Referenda on the Bunreacht.
That however is not down to my opinion.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
Many Unionists claimed that "NI" was created for them to have a State of their own while 'we" got our own State in the 26.
Anyone who wanted to be Irish or fly Tricolour etc were free to do so by pissing off across the border.
Didn't Paisly once boast that "There are no Nationalist areas in Northern Ireland"
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 09:53:52 AM
Many Unionists claimed that "NI" was created for them to have a State of their own while 'we" got our own State in the 26.
Anyone who wanted to be Irish or fly Tricolour etc were free to do so by pissing off across the border.
Didn't Paisly once boast that "There are no Nationalist areas in Northern Ireland"
Only decades after "the famine", and in throes of insurrection by a "disloyal " population, Britain came up with a plan, to keep a foothold on the island in a gerrymandered and advantaged statelet, and offload the "disloyal rabble" . How on earth did Collins and the "freestaters" sign up to a woefully disadvantaged 26, allowing Britain to retain the economic powerhouse of Antrim and Down? Britain clearly calculated that if they made the 6 counties Unapologetically British and discriminated against the Catholic's, more would leave to the South , further reinforcing the majority and a "Protestant state for a Protestant people".
Northern nationalists will justifiably claim they were "sold out By the free staters in '21" but in reality Southerners were also sold a pup. It's a tribute to the resilience of the 26 county population, that after several decades of extreme poverty and immigration they were able to make a success of ROI. Notwithstanding ongoing significant challenges around poverty homelessness and health, in most parameters ROI scores very well, and blows a heavily subsidised NI out of the water , on most things.
The reason NI has failed is that the stubborn NI nationalists did not leave their homeland , we stayed , and basically made NI ungovernable as we became an increasing minority( now a majority) , as many of us had no loyalty or affiliation to a state that hardly recognised our existence.
To make this island work, we need to learn the lessons of the past. In a 32 county context unionists form a similar sized minority to catholics in NI in '21. How can we ensure that this minority is championed, protected and engaged in any new constitutional arrangement?
In 1921 the Brits had already set up "Northern Ireland" and "Southern Ireland" in their 1920 Act.
The Treaty discussions were in effect to decide the Status of the 26 Counties. And of course nod nod wink wink the Boundary Commission will reduce the size of "NI" as you'll get Derry City, South Armagh, South Down and most of Fermanagh and Tyrone.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
actually reading a book at the moment
"without a dog`s chance 2the nationalists of Ni) and the boundary commission."
whilst it is an academic book it really gives insight as to how the northern nationalists were really told to keep quiet and it will be all right.
unionists had aready decided that they were never going to get involved in the boundary commission because they realised that anything less than what they had was making NI untenable.
its a sad read.
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
Tbf the "fleg culture" has had a recent positive spin . I'm sure Johnnycool can relate to this. Going in to Newtownards recently I noticed the "Thank you NHS" flags on every lamppost . NHS workers will no doubt feel valued, and motivated that someone had gone to that trouble to show their support , never mind the expense of bulk buying all those "Thank you NHS" flags superimposed on a Union Jack 🇬🇧 🤔
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 11, 2020, 11:15:20 AM
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
Tbf the "fleg culture" has had a recent positive spin . I'm sure Johnnycool can relate to this. Going in to Newtownards recently I noticed the "Thank you NHS" flags on every lamppost . NHS workers will no doubt feel valued, and motivated that someone had gone to that trouble to show their support , never mind the expense of bulk buying all those "Thank you NHS" flags superimposed on a Union Jack 🇬🇧 🤔
I'm always shocked the Newtownards isn't awash with Best Kept Town awards as it's so colourful at this time of year.
;D
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 10, 2020, 02:20:26 PM
I wonder will anyone from the nationalist community be celebrating the foundation of the state in which they live? The state that discriminated against them for 50 years. The state that only reflects the culture and ethnicity of just over 50% of the population whilst denying the other 50% any recognition. The state that has allowed a loyalist banner become it's "national flag" and one that equates Irish culture language and sport with sectarianism. Personally for me no.
Glad you added the last sentence because I just wasn't sure what side of the fence you were sitting on, lol.
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
You did grow up here during the troubles? The amount of bombs that went off in Belfast alone which caused huge damage and clean up, more than your 11th and 12th days currently, the rate hikes would have the same i'd assume
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 10, 2020, 10:26:06 PM
I won't use the term "Northern Ireland" if I can help it. I'll just say the north, the 6 counties etc.
Tbh, it doesn't bother me that much when people say it. If I ever hear Britain referred to as "the mainland" (TM) though... *shudder*
Same here.
I'm surprised that nobody has posted Jim Allister's grand plan for the centerary....
In a meeting with NIO Minister of State, Robin Walker MP, Jim Allister set out his party's vision and expectations for the centenary in 2021 of the creation of Northern Ireland.
Among the proposals put by TUV were the following:
• Since the centenary marks not just the creation of Northern Ireland but the U.K. as presently constituted, this must be a national celebration;
• A visit by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and royal address to the Northern Ireland Assembly and large scale Garden Party;
• The flying of the national flag on all public buildings on each key date;
• An additional public holiday in or about 3rd May;
• A Red Arrows fly past and visit of leading Royal Navy vessels;
• A special Royal Mail stamp collection;
• A specially minted commemorative coin, with presentation to every schoolchild and centenary specific classroom materials;
• A specially commissioned logo to brand and promote all events;
• A U.K. Government cabinet meeting in Belfast to mark the centenary with Prime Ministerial promotional visits to key tourist attractions;
• An exhibition in the National Portrait Gallery in London of key NI figures in sports, military, arts, politics etc over our first 100 years, which would then tour the rest of the U.K.;
• Promotion of Northern Ireland industry, including our food and drink products;
• Special honour and remembrance of all security personnel who gave their lives in defence of Northern Ireland, with a particular focus at the 2021 Remembrance Event in the Royal Albert Hall.
Mr Allister stressed to the Government that it must take control of the organising of the celebrations because if left to the Stormont Executive they would be neutered by the pernicious Sinn Fein veto.
Mr Allister also stressed that these events were about celebrating Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom and, therefore, they were not an occasion to be muddied by Dublin involvement.
Finally, the TUV leader reminded Minister Walker the current government was elected on a pledge to "never be neutral on the Union". (Conservative Election Manifesto 2019). 2021 should, therefore, be one of celebration for Northern Ireland and a year when the rest of the country is reminded that the UK is – in the words of the Tory manifesto – "stronger and richer for Northern Ireland being part of it"
Thats absolutely hilarious. Classic Jim. They would need to be starting the planning soon if he's expecting all that! ;D
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Thats absolutely hilarious. Classic Jim. They would need to be starting the planning soon if he's expecting all that! ;D
Will take the holiday but he can keep the rest
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
You did grow up here during the troubles? The amount of bombs that went off in Belfast alone which caused huge damage and clean up, more than your 11th and 12th days currently, the rate hikes would have the same i'd assume
I was addressing the point applesisapples made about Unionists not recognising Irish culture while they ran our wee colony, while they no longer call the shots, the old attitudes remain. I'd also argue the whole point of bombs going off in Belfast was to cause economic havoc.
f**king hell, the dissies would be wetting themselves at the thought of the entire Tory Cabinet in Belfast...
Jim lives in some Utopian place that really only exists in his head.
Quote from: Orior on August 11, 2020, 12:44:52 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has posted Jim Allister's grand plan for the centerary....
In a meeting with NIO Minister of State, Robin Walker MP, Jim Allister set out his party's vision and expectations for the centenary in 2021 of the creation of Northern Ireland.
Among the proposals put by TUV were the following:
• Since the centenary marks not just the creation of Northern Ireland but the U.K. as presently constituted, this must be a national celebration;
• A visit by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and royal address to the Northern Ireland Assembly and large scale Garden Party;
• The flying of the national flag on all public buildings on each key date;
• An additional public holiday in or about 3rd May;
• A Red Arrows fly past and visit of leading Royal Navy vessels;
• A special Royal Mail stamp collection;
• A specially minted commemorative coin, with presentation to every schoolchild and centenary specific classroom materials;
• A specially commissioned logo to brand and promote all events;
• A U.K. Government cabinet meeting in Belfast to mark the centenary with Prime Ministerial promotional visits to key tourist attractions;
• An exhibition in the National Portrait Gallery in London of key NI figures in sports, military, arts, politics etc over our first 100 years, which would then tour the rest of the U.K.;
• Promotion of Northern Ireland industry, including our food and drink products;
• Special honour and remembrance of all security personnel who gave their lives in defence of Northern Ireland, with a particular focus at the 2021 Remembrance Event in the Royal Albert Hall.
Mr Allister stressed to the Government that it must take control of the organising of the celebrations because if left to the Stormont Executive they would be neutered by the pernicious Sinn Fein veto.
Mr Allister also stressed that these events were about celebrating Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom and, therefore, they were not an occasion to be muddied by Dublin involvement.
Finally, the TUV leader reminded Minister Walker the current government was elected on a pledge to "never be neutral on the Union". (Conservative Election Manifesto 2019). 2021 should, therefore, be one of celebration for Northern Ireland and a year when the rest of the country is reminded that the UK is – in the words of the Tory manifesto – "stronger and richer for Northern Ireland being part of it"
😂😂Those small number of posters from the 26 , who lack empathy towards Northern nationalists , should read and digest the above. It gives a clear view of the aggressive, conflict seeking, self serving bigotry we've had to put up with. Those that peddle the narrative that SF and Extreme unionism are two sides of the same coin, should reflect that if SF had taken the same approach to 1916 celebrations they'd be rightly pilloried. Extreme unionism is usually generated from within unionist strongholds( north Antrim in Jim's case) where the nonsense above is enough to get these Vindictive unneighbourly rabble rousers re-elected with ease . Unionists who live in more balanced areas , don't have the same anti-Irish viewpoint , And are embarrassed by the above, as they know it offends their friends, neighbours.
Sadly Jim is a very able man, and though he appears inherently bigoted , his hard line views make no sense, unless Of course, he's exploiting the electorate for an ongoing meal ticket.
Embarrassing but also hilariously deluded, does he really think those on his "mainland" will be excited by NI 100? The only celebrations across the water will be when a future government in Westminster decides they've had enough , and waves goodbye to his " province " . They did this in '21, got rid of the "disloyal rabble" and bankrolled a sectarian NI , but Jim and generations of Unionist politicians couldn't even score that penalty kick. They've had 100 years to make a go of it, but they still don't get it.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 11, 2020, 02:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 11, 2020, 01:23:09 PM
Thats absolutely hilarious. Classic Jim. They would need to be starting the planning soon if he's expecting all that! ;D
Will take the holiday but he can keep the rest
Exactly what I thought reading the list
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2020, 12:10:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
This.
The failed putrid statelet is in its death throes, English nationalism and Scottish independence will help put it out of its misery. Unionists will need to get over their Stockholm syndrome and realise the Brits don't give a flying fiddler's fcuk about them.
And will you except their traditions when there is a UI?
They and their traditions will be treated a hell of a lot better after reunification of our country than the native Irish people and their traditions were treated under the Stormont apartheid regime.
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 02:16:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 12:39:30 PM
Quote from: general_lee on August 11, 2020, 11:03:27 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 11, 2020, 09:42:51 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
I think the ultimate aim of the head honchos of unionism (and London) was a sort of ethnic cleansing, post partition. Treat Catholics so bad that they could no longer put up with things, and piss off over the border. So, basically, we had the discord of the last 99 years because all Catholics didn't piss off over the border.
Didn't Thatcher once suggest that they should re-draw the border to place areas like South Armagh in the Republic. That was the mentality.
The thing is, the more staunch Ulster gentlemen still hold these views, they still think that if people don't aspire to the continuing partition of this country that they should "fúck off back to Ireland". You have men in their 50s who have barely left Belfast their entire lives, bar maybe to visit Glasgow or Benidorm, who form their views on places like south Armagh based on the likes of the deceased Willie Fraser.
They think the indigenous culture is not worth preserving, they think the language is little more than a hobby (except of course when being weaponised by "SFIRA"). They think the GAA hall doubles up as a weapons dump for the local IRA brigade. Even your more moderate "Unionist" would probably prefer if the Irish language died on its hole, such is the furore any time an ILA is brought up.
Meanwhile, your rates and taxes are paying for the annual clean up across the north after the 11th and 12th, the fire brigade to be on standby incase the houses catch fire, the council workers to come and board up houses to stop the windows from melting, even the contractors on the westlink to cover the gantry to prevent fire damage! You're paying for the police to do nothing (maybe hold the ladder) while loyalist flags are strategically placed to cause maximum offence, you're paying for their overtime when they police parades.
100 year of "cultural supremacy" will hopefully mark the beginning of the end.
You did grow up here during the troubles? The amount of bombs that went off in Belfast alone which caused huge damage and clean up, more than your 11th and 12th days currently, the rate hikes would have the same i'd assume
I was addressing the point applesisapples made about Unionists not recognising Irish culture while they ran our wee colony, while they no longer call the shots, the old attitudes remain. I'd also argue the whole point of bombs going off in Belfast was to cause economic havoc.
But by bombing the economy, it was doing exactly what you were complaining about.. Cherry picking!
The bombing didn't bring about peace either
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 09:22:28 AM
Dear Applesisapples,
I do not think Irish people in the North arent * "full Irish citizens".
I am not a "Southern Irishman". Western maybe.
* like most Irish Citizens who reside outside the 26 ye can't vote in Dáil or Presidential Elections or Referenda on the Bunreacht.
That however is not down to my opinion.
At the risk of rising to the bait, are you no longer a full Irish citizen if you move from Dublin to London and lose your right to? What if you happen to be a J1er who goes to America for the summer and an election gets called?
Once your name is on the Voting Register you can vote.
But if your permanent address is outside the 26 Counties you're not entitled to be on the Reguster unless you're a Diplomat or a soldier on UN duty who can get postal votes.
But they obviously have to be on the voting Register in some Cobstituency first.
Doesn't lessen your citizenship but when you hear of Poles, Italians etc living in Ireland who can vote in Polish, Italian elections it's a bit annoying that Irish people from the 26 who've moved overseas can't vote in our elections.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 04:45:06 PM
Once your name is on the Voting Register you can vote.
But if your permanent address is outside the 26 Counties you're not entitled to be on the Reguster unless you're a Diplomat or a soldier on UN duty who can get postal votes.
But they obviously have to be on the voting Register in some Cobstituency first.
Doesn't lessen your citizenship but when you hear of Poles, Italians etc living in Ireland who can vote in Polish, Italian elections it's a bit annoying that Irish people overseas can't vote in our elections.
Is that you Leo? The north isn't overseas.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 04:45:06 PM
Once your name is on the Voting Register you can vote.
But if your permanent address is outside the 26 Counties you're not entitled to be on the Reguster unless you're a Diplomat or a soldier on UN duty who can get postal votes.
But they obviously have to be on the voting Register in some Cobstituency first.
Doesn't lessen your citizenship but when you hear of Poles, Italians etc living in Ireland who can vote in Polish, Italian elections it's a bit annoying that Irish people overseas can't vote in our elections.
Latest example was Belarus embassies very busy over the weekend with their ex-pats voting.
Counting them correctly in Belarus was a slightly different democratic matter.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
One of the absurd aspects of post GFA is that the DUP understand the import of nationality issues more clearly than most Irish nationals.
Ni born are british nationals at birth, it is not removed unless you go through a legal process and if you actually read the temporary resolution to Emma's dilemma, nothing has changed to the status of British nationality being the first nationality imposed on all NI born and your Irish nationality is 2nd class.
It truly is absurd that Irish nationals born in NI do not understand British Nationality law and their status as Irish nationals under that law.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on August 11, 2020, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 11, 2020, 04:45:06 PM
Once your name is on the Voting Register you can vote.
But if your permanent address is outside the 26 Counties you're not entitled to be on the Reguster unless you're a Diplomat or a soldier on UN duty who can get postal votes.
But they obviously have to be on the voting Register in some Cobstituency first.
Doesn't lessen your citizenship but when you hear of Poles, Italians etc living in Ireland who can vote in Polish, Italian elections it's a bit annoying that Irish people overseas can't vote in our elections.
Is that you Leo? The north isn't overseas.
Post amended to take account of your sensitivities ;)
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:04:00 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2020, 12:10:27 AM
Quote from: balladmaker on August 10, 2020, 05:48:30 PM
I would never refer to the place I live as NI, why should we acknowledge a failed, sectarian statelet, purposely set up to discriminate and gerrymander with an inbuilt Unionist majority, a Protestant state for a Protestant people .... guess what, 2021 is expected to show a clear nationalist majority in the north. Our unionist community can at least be assured that they will receive equality in a new Ireland, and be treated a hell of a lot better than they treated Catholics in the first 50 years of their unionist dream state. The first 100 years of this place will also be the last 100 ... I hope I live to see that day.
This.
The failed putrid statelet is in its death throes, English nationalism and Scottish independence will help put it out of its misery. Unionists will need to get over their Stockholm syndrome and realise the Brits don't give a flying fiddler's fcuk about them.
And will you except their traditions when there is a UI?
They and their traditions will be treated a hell of a lot better after reunification of our country than the native Irish people and their traditions were treated under the Stormont apartheid regime.
Says who though? A nationalist or a unionist? No matter what is accommodated for unionism in a new Ireland, it still won't be enough. Unionists will never be content, you can be sure of that.
How were the Irish Prods treated in the south post 21?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 06:09:35 PM
How were the Irish Prods treated in the south post 21?
The elevated position of the catholic church in the new state is remarkable, since the church didn't appear to be instrumental in the securing of "freedom" . However they seem to have been successful in influencing FG and FF in the new state. No doubt that made it uncomfortable for Protestants with relocation to Britain and the North etc probably contributing to a dwindling population. Those that remained would mainly have become integrated in the new state . I am not aware of strong evidence that there was large Protestant unemployment, gerrymandering, voting discrimination, housing discrimination or sectarian violence , to the same extent as the North, but I stand corrected if others know better.
Quote from: 6th sam on August 11, 2020, 06:52:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 06:09:35 PM
How were the Irish Prods treated in the south post 21?
The elevated position of the catholic church in the new state is remarkable, since the church didn't appear to be instrumental in the securing of "freedom" . However they seem to have been successful in influencing FG and FF in the new state. No doubt that made it uncomfortable for Protestants with relocation to Britain and the North etc probably contributing to a dwindling population. Those that remained would mainly have become integrated in the new state . I am not aware of strong evidence that there was large Protestant unemployment, gerrymandering, voting discrimination, housing discrimination or sectarian violence , to the same extent as the North, but I stand corrected if others know better.
I don't think there was to be honest but the emigration was substantial and children in schools seemed to be educated the Irish way which pushed kids to be educated in England or up north!
A large proportion of them were large landowners or business owners and they were generally much wealthier than the Catholic population.
Some had been too loyal to the Brits in the War of Independence and scarpered away after the Treaty.
The big Estates run on 19th Century lines were impossible to keep up so many sold to the Land Commission and departed to England.
There certainly was no systematic policy of discrimination as practised in the 6 but there were instances of individual cases.
One was the case of Dr Kathleen Lynn who wasn't given a top job in a Maternity Hospital because the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin didn't want a C of I person who presumably might corrupt Catholic mothers.
There was a case of Mayo CoCo CoCo wouldn't appoint a Protestant as Head Librarian but did Dev instruct them to give her the job?
Then there was Fethard on Sea in Wexford and a boycott in the 1950s.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on August 11, 2020, 05:47:59 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
In the De Souza case, my understanding is that the UK Home Office is now preparing to allow her to file an application for her husband to obtain permanent residency recognising her as an Irish citizen on the basis that the UKHO is to consider those born in (insert your preference for "that area" here) whom are entitled to Irish citizenship to file such an application as a European Union citizen for which a programme presently exists for settlement during the transition period from leaving the EU (as the UK is currently in) without having to renounce UK citizenship in the process. It would appear that the courts have found that the "expression of identity" clause in the Good Friday Agreement meant that Ms. De Souza was being discriminated against when making the application for residency by the UKHO insisting that if you are deemed a UK citizen, you must apply as such otherwise it would not proceed. Fair play to her for her determination in what was very much a test case.
However, in the eyes of the law in the UK, she is still deemed a UK citizen as is anyone born in (ARGH!) under British Citizenship qualification rules. Wherever you or I like it or not is immaterial within the eyes of British law. We had a thread on this a while back, pointing out that national citizenship is bestowed by nation states by various methods whom may allow you to renounce it by following certain legal procedures - but it is not necessarily cheap.
What the De Souza case has set a marker for is for those born in N******n I*****d whom solely identify themselves with Irish citizenship can do so without having to formally identify themselves as British (even if the UK state deems them as such). However what this means beyond her and her husband's case (and those in a very similar scenario) is perhaps still up for legal debate.
The De Souza case set no such marker. Can Irish nationals not get it out of their head that the GFA's clause on identity is relatively meaningless until and unless it's put into law?
Identity has nothing to do with it. Emily identifying with Irish nationality has nothing to do with it. It is about the nationality law and what the law recognises, in this case British nationality Law.Emily could identify with being as Kerry as Peig Sayers, that means sfa in the eyes of the law.
Irish Nationality is secondary to the British nationality that is imposed upon Irish nationals born in NI.
Just what the free state government wanted when it turned its back
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
One of the absurd aspects of post GFA is that the DUP understand the import of nationality issues more clearly than most Irish nationals.
Ni born are british nationals at birth, it is not removed unless you go through a legal process and if you actually read the temporary resolution to Emma's dilemma, nothing has changed to the status of British nationality being the first nationality imposed on all NI born and your Irish nationality is 2nd class.
It truly is absurd that Irish nationals born in NI do not understand British Nationality law and their status as Irish nationals under that law.
Any state can pass a law doesn't make me any less Irish, that's my choice and birthright.
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 12, 2020, 09:19:04 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
One of the absurd aspects of post GFA is that the DUP understand the import of nationality issues more clearly than most Irish nationals.
Ni born are british nationals at birth, it is not removed unless you go through a legal process and if you actually read the temporary resolution to Emma's dilemma, nothing has changed to the status of British nationality being the first nationality imposed on all NI born and your Irish nationality is 2nd class.
It truly is absurd that Irish nationals born in NI do not understand British Nationality law and their status as Irish nationals under that law.
Any state can pass a law doesn't make me any less Irish, that's my choice and birthright.
Who's claiming you're less Irish? This is not about feelings, this is about basic civil rights 101.
NI born Irish nationals are British nationals at birth whether a person recognises it or not. And regardless of how you only identify with your Irish nationality, it is your British Nationality that's legal tender in the UK. The DUP were quite correct under the law, it is your British nationality that is protected and takes precedence. A superior nationality, eg, only a British national can play representative sport for the IFA team. The same goes for any other NI representative team, also GB+NI .
You referred to Emily as sorting something out. Why so? What do you think she sorted out that needed sorting out?
Now you might be aware that she sorted out nothing, does it not matter to you anymore that something still needs to be sorted out?
The temporary relief for people in Emily's situation only refers to EU citizens, not specifically Irish nationals. Other NI born Irish nationals went through the legal process of discarding their imposed British nationality in order to protect their partners/spouses' residence and civil rights, in post Brexit UK.
Why shouldn't Irish only nationality for NI born have the same equal status that British nationality has in the law? The logical next step is to take Emily's cause and the GFA clauses to the next stage.
Quote from: Main Street on August 12, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 12, 2020, 09:19:04 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Main Street on August 11, 2020, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 11, 2020, 09:00:13 AM
To be fair you are most likely to hear Southern Irish people such as Rossfan either expressly or by insinuation suggest we in the North are somehow less than full citizens. I use Northern Ireland were appropriate but find it sticks in my teeth, I use the North and NI as well. Doesn't affect my view on a UI to accept that the state exists. It doesn't prevent me questioning the legitimacy of a breakaway state founded on violence and the threat of violence. I have long held the view that had unionists recognised two cultures and administered the state fairly then we wouldn't have had the discord of the last 99 years.
You're not less that full Irish citizens but your Irish citizenship is second class in NI. It is your British nationality which gives you equality in NI under the law. Instead of seeing the GFA as a place to move forward from, the strategy of DUP and their like is to stall or/and pull back on the advances made in the GFA. In fact the DUP understand that better than Irish nationals. Whereas the next step for NI is to have the GFA identity paragraphs and other stuff be brought into law.
That for Irish nationals born in NI, the Irish nationality alone is treated equal under the law as British Nationality.
That any NI born can chose now to discard their British nationality free of cost. that those born in the future in NI are only automatically a British national if at least one of their parents is a British national. That for one born in NI who has no parents who are a British national, still qualifies to obtain a British nationality should they so desire.
Sorry but I am not a British National, whatever you are the British might think. I believe Emma de Souza has sorted that legally as well.
One of the absurd aspects of post GFA is that the DUP understand the import of nationality issues more clearly than most Irish nationals.
Ni born are british nationals at birth, it is not removed unless you go through a legal process and if you actually read the temporary resolution to Emma's dilemma, nothing has changed to the status of British nationality being the first nationality imposed on all NI born and your Irish nationality is 2nd class.
It truly is absurd that Irish nationals born in NI do not understand British Nationality law and their status as Irish nationals under that law.
Any state can pass a law doesn't make me any less Irish, that's my choice and birthright.
Who's claiming you're less Irish? This is not about feelings, this is about basic civil rights 101.
NI born Irish nationals are British nationals at birth whether a person recognises it or not. And regardless of how you only identify with your Irish nationality, it is your British Nationality that's legal tender in the UK. The DUP were quite correct under the law, it is your British nationality that is protected and takes precedence. A superior nationality, eg, only a British national can play representative sport for the IFA team. The same goes for any other NI representative team, also GB+NI .
You referred to Emily as sorting something out. Why so? What do you think she sorted out that needed sorting out?
Now you might be aware that she sorted out nothing, does it not matter to you anymore that something still needs to be sorted out?
The temporary relief for people in Emily's situation only refers to EU citizens, not specifically Irish nationals. Other NI born Irish nationals went through the legal process of discarding their imposed British nationality in order to protect their partners/spouses' residence and civil rights, in post Brexit UK.
Why shouldn't Irish only nationality for NI born have the same equal status that British nationality has in the law? The logical next step is to take Emily's cause and the GFA clauses to the next stage.
Sorry but I'm too old to play representative sport but even if I wasn't there would be no chance of me representing NI. As I said the British can treat me as a UK citizen if they so wish. It doesn't make me one and it isn't about feelings. The reason NI will never work is unionist failure to accept the legitimacy of my Irish citizenship and identity.
It's going to be a wonderful inclusive celebration according to Bozo ;D
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40031879.html
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on August 13, 2020, 12:58:20 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on August 12, 2020, 02:01:08 PM
<snip>As I said the British can treat me as a UK citizen if they so wish. It doesn't make me one and it isn't about feelings.<snip> ---8<--
For the record, it is not just the UK Government that would consider you an UK Citizen but also the Irish Government too (your Irish citizenship, notwithstanding), as well as pretty much most nations on this planet. For example, if you were in Britain and you were arrested in very dodgy circumstances, if you were to approach the Irish Embassy or Consulate for help on the grounds that you believed yourself to be a foreigner in GB (i.e. don't hold UK citizenship) they & the DFA would almost certainly refuse to give any diplomatic assistance on the grounds that you are a recognised citizen of the country that you were arrested in - this is standard international diplomatic protocol where dual or multiple citizenship is concerned.
I'm not willing to test that but I'd say depending on the circumstances as with the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4 they would. I wouldn't expect help if I robbed a bank.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2020, 12:44:04 PM
It's going to be a wonderful inclusive celebration according to Bozo ;D
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40031879.html
Deluded gobshite.
Quote from: red hander on August 13, 2020, 02:26:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2020, 12:44:04 PM
It's going to be a wonderful inclusive celebration according to Bozo ;D
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40031879.html
Deluded gobshite.
Likely Bozo is not deluded, he has a record of playing along to the audience in the 6 counties and then doing the opposite.
It'll be celebrated like the 12th, one side will have the best craic and the others will continue on without lifting an eyebrow...
Or the Queen's jubilee. Really not one shite could a lot of people give I suspect.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 04:17:49 PM
It'll be celebrated like the 12th, one side will have the best craic and the others will continue on without lifting an eyebrow...
Aye, but at least we can all go to Bundoran for the statutory day off ;)
Quote from: BennyCake on August 13, 2020, 05:00:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 04:17:49 PM
It'll be celebrated like the 12th, one side will have the best craic and the others will continue on without lifting an eyebrow...
Aye, but at least we can all go to Bundoran for the statutory day off ;)
If I can work it, I'll be working it
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
People getting very rattled when pulled up on using the term 'northern ireland'...and saying I use it occasionaily , the odd time or only if I need to etc. etc....like wtf??? You're either pregnant or you're not!
We all know the abuse Seán Cavanagh got when he talked about the same thing a while back but people on here are the exact same. Then they turn it around and say 'look, he thinks he's more Irish than me etc. etc'. Pure diversion tactics when faced with reality. Always wanting to play the man instead of the ball.
As I stated previoulsy, As a nationalist/republican, how the f**k can you use the term 'northern ireland'?
And these are the same people who'll be complaining about the 'celebrations' next year - sneeky regarders if you ask me.
How ironic?
Jesus Marty! You're a right wee provo ;D
No doubt pencil moustache middle shade haircut. Blue jeans with black oxfords on! Either denim jacket or the Nike hoody shell top!
Republican news in back pocket and your Irish passport at the ready for when the peelers pull you over!
Quote from: marty34 on August 13, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
As I stated previoulsy, As a nationalist/republican, how the f**k can you use the term 'northern ireland'?
This fella?
https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/john-hume-quotes (https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/john-hume-quotes)
Must have been derived from his Planter family roots. The enjoyment of Cricket, too.
Quote from: marty34 on August 13, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
How ironic?
See above.
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
Quote from: marty34 on August 13, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
People getting very rattled when pulled up on using the term 'northern ireland'...and saying I use it occasionaily , the odd time or only if I need to etc. etc....like wtf??? You're either pregnant or you're not!
We all know the abuse Seán Cavanagh got when he talked about the same thing a while back but people on here are the exact same. Then they turn it around and say 'look, he thinks he's more Irish than me etc. etc'. Pure diversion tactics when faced with reality. Always wanting to play the man instead of the ball.
As I stated previoulsy, As a nationalist/republican, how the f**k can you use the term 'northern ireland'?
And these are the same people who'll be complaining about the 'celebrations' next year - sneeky regarders if you ask me.
How ironic?
Did anyone ask you? Back to showing off your national Irish identity with your love of a Scottish soccer team.
Will Evil G be celebrating the 101st anniversary of the establishment* of whatever you want to call the place?
* Established in the British Government of Ireland Act 1920.
I presume the oul pledge of Office that Ministers of the Executive affirm rules out SF and SDLP from Marty's definition if Nationalist/Republican???
https://www.northernireland.gov.uk/topics/your-executive/ministerial-code
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 07:16:23 PM
Jesus Marty! You're a right wee provo ;D
No doubt pencil moustache middle shade haircut. Blue jeans with black oxfords on! Either denim jacket or the Nike hoody shell top!
Republican news in back pocket and your Irish passport at the ready for when the peelers pull you over!
Lol...as I said, playing the man not the ball.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
For three candidates that attract so few votes, they speak on numerous media platforms, Nolan's TV and radio shows, Talkback etc. There's a big listenership of those shows, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that those bin lids were the three biggest representatives of PUL voters.
The bile they spew does filter down to the general PUL population, even to those who don't vote for them, particularly around bonfire/marching season.
Quote from: marty34 on August 13, 2020, 08:50:26 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 07:16:23 PM
Jesus Marty! You're a right wee provo ;D
No doubt pencil moustache middle shade haircut. Blue jeans with black oxfords on! Either denim jacket or the Nike hoody shell top!
Republican news in back pocket and your Irish passport at the ready for when the peelers pull you over!
Lol...as I said, playing the man not the ball.
I'm f**king with you to a point, I grew up with those lads who wanted to be super Irish (like the super prods) and ended up thinking for myself..
Being hard nosed about things will get you nowhere in life, if living here is a strain I'd personally move, we've all had that option. But I live in the North, took the harder option. Calling It N.I is a choice of words, believing in the state and what it stands for is completely different.
Let it ride, you should be more at odds with how the South at the time agreed to have partition.
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2020, 08:08:31 PM
Will Evil G be celebrating the 101st anniversary of the establishment* of whatever you want to call the place?
* Established in the British Government of Ireland Act 1920.
Define "celebrating".
If you mean marching somewhere, buying a big f**k-off flag, or dressing up in some sort of fancy costume etc, then no I won't. Just like eg the Jubilee, Twelfth or VE Day etc.
But if you mean taking some quiet satisfaction at being a citizen of a country which is older than the great majority of other countries, then yes, since it is important to me. And who knows, I might even stretch to sharing a bottle of something white, wet and fizzy with my dinner, rather than something white, wet and still, as is my wont.
Now my nation's international football team, that's very different, a cause for celebration or commiseration every single time!
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/06/21/article-urn:publicid:ap.org:d93361b4108a473583a2c0b808ebe068-PbATzVu868f57cb8a8ca2719d35-433_634x422.jpg)
"140 Not Out!"
Quote from: BennyCake on August 13, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
For three candidates that attract so few votes, they speak on numerous media platforms, Nolan's TV and radio shows, Talkback etc. There's a big listenership of those shows, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that those bin lids were the three biggest representatives of PUL voters.
The bile they spew does filter down to the general PUL population, even to those who don't vote for them, particularly around bonfire/marching season.
So you have a choice.
One may take ones lead/draw ones information from people showing their true priorities in a forum which counts for something (i.e. elections), whether by voting in them or even by declining to do so.
Or one may do so by signing up to the media's need for (literally) unrepresentative, self-promoting gobshites to encourage other random gobshites to listen to their craphead's radio show, or click on their scuzzy website, or buy their lowlife rag etc.
And by your own admission you choose the latter.
There can only be two explanations for this.
The first is a basic lack of intelligence and discernment.
And the other is a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed.
Whichever it is, I hope you're happy in your little world and the Exam Board was kind to you earlier today.
Quote from: marty34 on August 13, 2020, 07:05:35 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 10, 2020, 07:53:40 PM
f**k sake, is this really what it's come to!? "I'm such a big f**king chuckie compared to you because I refuse to say Northern Ireland?" It's the lads who use such shite to judge others that need to have a word with themselves.
How are your mates the Wolfe Tones doing, Balladmaker? I don't remember reading too many stories about all the time they did in the Kesh, but sure they shout "up the Ra" a few times a year so let's give them all a big cheer.
People getting very rattled when pulled up on using the term 'northern ireland'...and saying I use it occasionaily , the odd time or only if I need to etc. etc....like wtf??? You're either pregnant or you're not!
We all know the abuse Seán Cavanagh got when he talked about the same thing a while back but people on here are the exact same. Then they turn it around and say 'look, he thinks he's more Irish than me etc. etc'. Pure diversion tactics when faced with reality. Always wanting to play the man instead of the ball.
As I stated previoulsy, As a nationalist/republican, how the f**k can you use the term 'northern ireland'?
And these are the same people who'll be complaining about the 'celebrations' next year - sneeky regarders if you ask me.
How ironic?
Agreed
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:40:50 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 13, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
For three candidates that attract so few votes, they speak on numerous media platforms, Nolan's TV and radio shows, Talkback etc. There's a big listenership of those shows, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that those bin lids were the three biggest representatives of PUL voters.
The bile they spew does filter down to the general PUL population, even to those who don't vote for them, particularly around bonfire/marching season.
So you have a choice.
One may take ones lead/draw ones information from people showing their true priorities in a forum which counts for something (i.e. elections), whether by voting in them or even by declining to do so.
Or one may do so by signing up to the media's need for (literally) unrepresentative, self-promoting gobshites to encourage other random gobshites to listen to their craphead's radio show, or click on their scuzzy website, or buy their lowlife rag etc.
???And by your own admission you choose the latter.
There can only be two explanations for this.
The first is a basic lack of intelligence and discernment.
And the other is a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed.
Whichever it is, I hope you're happy in your little world and the Exam Board was kind to you earlier today.
Don't patronise me.
Firstly, I was merely replying to your post, stating that things that those three say/said have consequences for a lot of everyday people on both sides (whether they watch Nolan, read the Newsletter etc). Those programs stoke the fires of sectarianism, and they filter down to the local news, political debates, papers, etc, and ultimately can decide voting patterns.
I was not implying that they influence my thinking. I know the game they play, and I don't participate in it.
Maybe it says something about you and your "preconceptions and prejudices" that you assumed I form my opinions from what loyalist figures have to say.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:40:50 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 13, 2020, 09:15:23 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
For three candidates that attract so few votes, they speak on numerous media platforms, Nolan's TV and radio shows, Talkback etc. There's a big listenership of those shows, so you'd be forgiven for thinking that those bin lids were the three biggest representatives of PUL voters.
The bile they spew does filter down to the general PUL population, even to those who don't vote for them, particularly around bonfire/marching season.
So you have a choice.
One may take ones lead/draw ones information from people showing their true priorities in a forum which counts for something (i.e. elections), whether by voting in them or even by declining to do so.
Or one may do so by signing up to the media's need for (literally) unrepresentative, self-promoting gobshites to encourage other random gobshites to listen to their craphead's radio show, or click on their scuzzy website, or buy their lowlife rag etc.
And by your own admission you choose the latter.
There can only be two explanations for this.
The first is a basic lack of intelligence and discernment.
And the other is a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed.
Whichever it is, I hope you're happy in your little world and the Exam Board was kind to you earlier today.
These three commentators seem (seemed, in the case of our dearly departed friend Mr Frazer) to be able to whip the unionist community into a frenzy at any time necessary. The looneys shouted and the unionists responded, oft times violently and in great numbers.
Given that, would you say that the unionist community display
(a) "a basic lack of intelligence and discernment"
or
(b) "a compelling need to have your preconceptions and prejudices confirmed"?
Answers on a postcard.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 13, 2020, 07:48:23 PM
When browsing one of these threads, it always amuses me to see that contributors pontificating on what Themmuns are up to, invariably seem to get their information by reference to three sources:
1. Jim Allister;
2. Jamie Bwyson;
3. Willie Frazer.
For information, at the 2017 Assembly elections, the TUV managed to achieve a mammoth 2.6% of the vote (down from 3.5%, btw).
When Jamie stood as "Community Partnership" representative in the Bangor West ward in North Down Borough's 2011 council elections, he finished 12th of 13 candidates with 167 votes (wasn't even the CP's highest vote!).
And when Frazer stood in various elections, he invariably got his ass, though not his deposit, handed straight back to him, almost always with less than 2% of the vote. (Oh, and he's dead, by the way).
And those returns are just from Unionists who bother to vote - we may safely assume that that large section of the Unionist community who don't bother with it have no time for cretins like those.
But yeah, "Themmuns is all the same..." ::)
Barring wee Wullie (who's departed us) the other two are regularly wheeled out on the "biggest show in the country" ( @Marty, not my country
;) ) as the voice of unionism so it's no wonder usuns believe that's how themmuns think..
You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?
Classic groupthink. If the position you hold is not strong enough to withstand logical analysis then its only basis is sticking together and gatekeepers ensure that people do not step out of line.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
Don't patronise me.
Firstly, I was merely... ... stating that things that those three say... ... ultimately can decide voting patterns.
If they were capable of "deciding voting patterns" then how come they couldn't even get any votes for themselves?
And why won't any of the parties recruit them? (Jim "Mr. 2.5%" Allister had to form his own Party ffs!)
The point is that no Unionist Party which wants to be taken serously would touch people like that with a bargepole.
Yet you seem to take them seriously on the basis that they're never out of the media ::)
I guess you get your take on World Events from Kim Kardashian?
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
I was not implying that they influence my thinking. I know the game they play, and I don't participate in it.
Maybe it says something about you and your "preconceptions and prejudices" that you assumed I form my opinions from what loyalist figures have to say.
I wasn't saying that they influence your thinking.
I was suggesting that you have a pre-formed opinion of Unionists as basically being all bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes etc
And then having formed that opinion, you look around for "evidence" to prove it, in your case pointing to the likes of (literally) unrepresentative individuals like Frazer, Allister and Bryson.
At the risk of patronising you further, I would suggest you should look at the evidence first,
then form your conclusion.
And stop listening to Nolan.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2020, 11:13:31 AM
You are right in the point you make, but what is it with unionism that any form of moderate thinking is quickly shot down as sell outs or lundys?
Well we have posters here telling us that you cannot be nationalist/republican if you use the term "Northern Ireland".
This to an outsider looking in cuts out a fair swathe of middle ground. It demonstrates a belligerent bind to the past as much as an extreme unionist like McAllister. I write this because it implies:
1) The failures of the past mean that "Northern Ireland" cannot today or in the future exist in any acceptable way.
2) The famous spirit of the GFA (evoke so often in Brexit discussions) surely is that Northern Ireland of today can work as all identities are accomondated.
3) 50% of those charged with no. 2 actually don't believe it can work. They are sorely there waiting for the place to be dissolved.
I would the questions:
is it not possible to be uncomfortable with the formation of the state(let), the previous running of the state(let) but be satisfied enough with today's arrangement ? Enough even to be able to utter the name of the place? Enough to accept that some will celebrate it and maybe turn some it to some kind of celebration of Northern Ireland as it is today?
<edit> otherwise for 50% of the current government their sole interest is waiting for the place to disappear?
/Jim.
A few things. Firstly NI/Northern Ireland is not a country, it is currently administratively a region of the UK. It is also a fact that the majority in the region brought us to where we are now by not being magnanimous in their victory. Every opportunity was taken to wave a flag and keep the croppies on there knees. It is not so long a go that every Friday in July the lambs were beat outside the chapel in my parish. There was no recognition of the then 30%'s origin or right to live in the state. Unionism missed the boat of inclusivity at every turn. The fleg waving continues today and puts off most catholics and an increasing number of protestants. If unionism runs true to form then the celebration will be another layer of fleg waving rubbing nationalist nose in the dirt. It will be counter productive and I for one will as I have done every July for years ignore it and head to Donegal.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:46:30 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
Don't patronise me.
Firstly, I was merely... ... stating that things that those three say... ... ultimately can decide voting patterns.
If they were capable of "deciding voting patterns" then how come they couldn't even get any votes for themselves?
And why won't any of the parties recruit them? (Jim "Mr. 2.5%" Allister had to form his own Party ffs!)
The point is that no Unionist Party which wants to be taken serously would touch people like that with a bargepole.
Yet you seem to take them seriously on the basis that they're never out of the media ::)
I guess you get your take on World Events from Kim Kardashian?
Quote from: BennyCake on August 14, 2020, 10:12:57 AM
I was not implying that they influence my thinking. I know the game they play, and I don't participate in it.
Maybe it says something about you and your "preconceptions and prejudices" that you assumed I form my opinions from what loyalist figures have to say.
I wasn't saying that they influence your thinking.
I was suggesting that you have a pre-formed opinion of Unionists as basically being all bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes etc
And then having formed that opinion, you look around for "evidence" to prove it, in your case pointing to the likes of (literally) unrepresentative individuals like Frazer, Allister and Bryson.
At the risk of patronising you further, I would suggest you should look at the evidence first, then form your conclusion.
And stop listening to Nolan.
I refer to your original point about their low votes, and why they seem to get more media attention than they should.
And I don't take them seriously. But, low votes or not, they still have the capacity to stoke up tensions, and that can be dangerous. One arse hanging onto their every word is enough to get a house petrol bombed, an unlucky person to get beaten up, or worse. They also know that when it comes to bonfires, marching etc, they will get support from the PUL community. Even those who don't vote for them.
Where did I say all unionists were bigots, gobshites and fruitcakes? You seem to have formed your own opinion about me by things I haven't said.
Are there bigots within unionism? Yes. Are there bigots within republicanism? Yes. If someone is behaving like a bigot or gobshites, I'll call them out. I have done with unionist parties/politicians, and I have likewise with Republican parties/politicians.
Herself is the epitome of a middle class, middle of the road, very small 'n' nationalist. SDLP voter all her life, calls this place NI, happy enough with the status quo (up until 23 June 2016, at least), clapped the NHS on Thursdays etc. She burst out laughing in my face when I asked her would she be interested in any events to commemorate/celebrate 100 years of the existence of NI. Her exact words were "What is there to celebrate?". I suspect this will be the reaction of the vast majority of non-unionists.
On the Jamie Bryson front didn't members of the DUP feel he was relevant enough to let him have a sneaky look at the Haas proposals before any agreement which amazingly enough they then started to back peddle on when 'grassroots' rejected it. The DUP were also happy enough to turn a blind eye to the daft poster campaign in North Down and North Belfast which of course spectacularly backfired.
Unionists dont really need to vote for Loons like JB or Allister.
The DUPUDA supply plenty of 17th Century half baked eejits for them.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 14, 2020, 01:18:22 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 13, 2020, 08:08:31 PM
Will Evil G be celebrating the 101st anniversary of the establishment* of whatever you want to call the place?
* Established in the British Government of Ireland Act 1920.
Define "celebrating".
If you mean marching somewhere, buying a big f**k-off flag, or dressing up in some sort of fancy costume etc, then no I won't. Just like eg the Jubilee, Twelfth or VE Day etc.
But if you mean taking some quiet satisfaction at being a citizen of a country which is older than the great majority of other countries, then yes, since it is important to me. And who knows, I might even stretch to sharing a bottle of something white, wet and fizzy with my dinner, rather than something white, wet and still, as is my wont.
Now my nation's international football team, that's very different, a cause for celebration or commiseration every single time!
(https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/emojipedia/132/rolling-on-the-floor-laughing_1f923.png)
Well, lads! It's almost here - what are ye all doing for the big 100? With the Covid situation, my celebrations will have to be a bit more inventive and symbolic, so here's the list. Firstly, the dog - who I can hardly tolerate - will be banished from the house to the back yard so as I can look down on him throughout the year (with the hope that he takes the hint and emigrates to the next street). Secondly, I will ignore all neighbours from 25 June to 14 July inclusive. Thirdly, I will wallow with absolute pride when we are referred to as a Devolved "Nation". Fourthly, I will rename Derryvolgie Avenue off the Lisburn/Malone Road as Londonderryvolgie Avenue - indeed, any reference will be expunged - Edenderry will become EdenLondonderry etc. Also, I will lobby that any name that derives from Irish is changed to Ulster-Scots - Shankill to become "Shuckditch Road" and Belfast will become "Ringy thing goes quickly". Lastly, I will campaign for a statue of Jamie Bryson to be erected at Larne to welcome visitors to our wee semi-province as a sign of the evolving NI.
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
Not one brass farthing of public money should be spent on these "celebrations".
As we've been told bi-lingual signage, the ILA and the likes are a waste of public money which instead should be spent on health and education.
What's good for the goose...
Quote from: johnnycool on March 18, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
Not one brass farthing of public money should be spent on these "celebrations".
As we've been told bi-lingual signage, the ILA and the likes are a waste of public money which instead should be spent on health and education.
What's good for the goose...
I agree
I also think not one cent of public money should be spent on commemorations for the War of Independence, Irish independence or any of the participants in it
I am disappointed that the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland thinks his flock should join in the celebration.
Quote from: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 18, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
Not one brass farthing of public money should be spent on these "celebrations".
As we've been told bi-lingual signage, the ILA and the likes are a waste of public money which instead should be spent on health and education.
What's good for the goose...
I agree
I also think not one cent of public money should be spent on commemorations for the War of Independence, Irish independence or any of the participants in it
Whoops - my sarcasim detection meter is broken. On a scale of 0-10 and 10 is 100% sarcasim, where is your statement?
And those people who were Excummunicated? Will there be an Genera Amenstiy ?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
The way Rangers fans were allowed to celebrate I wouldn't be too sure on that.
Quote from: clarshack on March 18, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
The way Rangers fans were allowed to celebrate I wouldn't be too sure on that.
Given that you're so anti-lockdown I'd have thought you would have been fervently favour of Rangers fans celebrating and a big centenary celebration of NI's existence?
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2021, 01:50:55 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 01:44:31 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 18, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
Not one brass farthing of public money should be spent on these "celebrations".
As we've been told bi-lingual signage, the ILA and the likes are a waste of public money which instead should be spent on health and education.
What's good for the goose...
I agree
I also think not one cent of public money should be spent on commemorations for the War of Independence, Irish independence or any of the participants in it
Whoops - my sarcasim detection meter is broken. On a scale of 0-10 and 10 is 100% sarcasim, where is your statement?
Your post makes no sense
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2021, 01:46:34 PM
I am disappointed that the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland thinks his flock should join in the celebration.
See the SDLP were in favour of it too. I can't for the life of me understand that position. I suppose they realised that it couldnt go through anyhow. Still.
Quote from: grounded on March 18, 2021, 06:30:11 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 18, 2021, 01:46:34 PM
I am disappointed that the leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland thinks his flock should join in the celebration.
See the SDLP were in favour of it too. I can't for the life of me understand that position. I suppose they realised that it couldnt go through anyhow. Still.
[/quote
It's typical SDLP
I've noticed a pile of flags gone up on the Moira roundabout. Is there like a set date or week that these centenary celebrations take place? Or were those just a pile of Rangers flags I saw?
Quote from: general_lee on March 18, 2021, 07:52:56 PM
I've noticed a pile of flags gone up on the Moira roundabout. Is there like a set date or week that these centenary celebrations take place? Or were those just a pile of Rangers flags I saw?
Don't think they're rangers flags. They were there last week. What date is the anniversary anyway
Is there a day off for it ;)
Quote from: sid waddell on March 18, 2021, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: clarshack on March 18, 2021, 02:23:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2021, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 18, 2021, 11:17:24 AM
No stone at Stormont
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40246625.html
The quicker the nationalist parties just ignore the 'celebrations' the better...
With the place still in lockdown and no intention of opening up for large gatherings this hopefully will pass off like a fart in the wind, unpleasant at the start but fade away in moments
The way Rangers fans were allowed to celebrate I wouldn't be too sure on that.
Given that you're so anti-lockdown I'd have thought you would have been fervently favour of Rangers fans celebrating and a big centenary celebration of NI's existence?
Aye sure why not if it's an excuse to have a few cans.
Flegs on lamp posts of all hues are like dogs pissing on a garden fence. Eamon Martin will be ignored on the centenary as he is on most issues. It would serve him better if he began addressing the abominable treatment of women and LGBT people in the church. We need married and women priests ASAP.
Quote from: Applesisapples on March 22, 2021, 12:00:17 PM
Flegs on lamp posts of all hues are like dogs pissing on a garden fence. Eamon Martin will be ignored on the centenary as he is on most issues. It would serve him better if he began addressing the abominable treatment of women and LGBT people in the church. We need married men and women priests ASAP.
Agreed.
Michael D rightfully giving the "celebration" a miss.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0915/1246949-centenary-partition-service/
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 11:04:24 AM
Michael D rightfully giving the "celebration" a miss.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0915/1246949-centenary-partition-service/
He's went up in my estimation!
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 16, 2021, 12:31:16 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 11:04:24 AM
Michael D rightfully giving the "celebration" a miss.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0915/1246949-centenary-partition-service/
He's went up in my estimation!
However, shoneen Martin will send someone.
Quote from: Rossfan on September 16, 2021, 11:04:24 AM
Michael D rightfully giving the "celebration" a miss.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2021/0915/1246949-centenary-partition-service/
Queue more DUP outcry. They really don't get irony do they. They don't want anything to do with North-South bodies but the minute it is flipped on them they are outraged (or more outraged than their permanent state of outrage). Clueless.
Eamonn Martin thinks its a grand idea and is castigating SF and the SDLP for not attending. I can't see for the life of me what there is to celebrate. As for the DUP and UUP preaching about out reach, Jesus wept look at the ILA.
Aren't both church leaders primates of All Ireland? So, they don't exactly recognise partition.
Probably the only centenary.
Partition has been a disaster.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 16, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Eamonn Martin thinks its a grand idea and is castigating SF and the SDLP for not attending. I can't see for the life of me what there is to celebrate. As for the DUP and UUP preaching about out reach, Jesus wept look at the ILA.
He is attending an event commemorating the creation of a state designed to subjugate the religion he is head of.
I just don't understand it.
What a centenary celebration it has been for Unionism. Sea border, street protests and 5 different Unionist leaders in a calendar year. The 'celebrations' have really taken a back burner.
Thankfully Higgins has taken the only rational course of action and not helped legitimise the creation of a sectarian statelet that has been nothing but an unmitigated disaster.
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 16, 2021, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 16, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Eamonn Martin thinks its a grand idea and is castigating SF and the SDLP for not attending. I can't see for the life of me what there is to celebrate. As for the DUP and UUP preaching about out reach, Jesus wept look at the ILA.
He is attending an event commemorating the creation of a state designed to subjugate the religion he is head of.
I just don't understand it.
;D
It's a bit like celebrating your wedding anniversary when you're divorced. A failed marriage,a failed state.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 16, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Eamonn Martin thinks its a grand idea and is castigating SF and the SDLP for not attending. I can't see for the life of me what there is to celebrate. As for the DUP and UUP preaching about out reach, Jesus wept look at the ILA.
He's a bishop or cardinal is he? Tells ya all you need to know...
Fair play to the President for his response overnight. I'm all for reconciliation, but fully support his position.
Quote from: Rois on September 17, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Fair play to the President for his response overnight. I'm all for reconciliation, but fully support his position.
Thought his response was excellent, called out the DUP whilst also singling out the point scoring in the event.
Good on him .
Quote from: naka on September 17, 2021, 08:12:03 AM
Quote from: Rois on September 17, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Fair play to the President for his response overnight. I'm all for reconciliation, but fully support his position.
Thought his response was excellent, called out the DUP whilst also singling out the point scoring in the event.
Good on him .
Totally agree.
As as act of reconciliation, Michael D should invite the queen of the U.K. to tea.
Quote from: Rois on September 17, 2021, 08:08:51 AM
Fair play to the President for his response overnight. I'm all for reconciliation, but fully support his position.
+1 ... he gave an excellent response this morning. Plus pointed out that he's the President of Ireland, not the President of the ROI (as the DUP like to go out of their way to refer to him as).
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 16, 2021, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 16, 2021, 03:37:59 PM
Eamonn Martin thinks its a grand idea and is castigating SF and the SDLP for not attending. I can't see for the life of me what there is to celebrate. As for the DUP and UUP preaching about out reach, Jesus wept look at the ILA.
He is attending an event commemorating the creation of a state designed to subjugate the religion he is head of.
I just don't understand it.
Trying to make his failed church relevant again.
Congrats to Good Morning Ulster on a fine party political broadcast on behalf of the DUP. The lack of self awareness displayed by unionism in general and JD in particular never fails to make me laugh.
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2021, 09:56:47 AM
Congrats to Good Morning Ulster on a fine party political broadcast on behalf of the DUP. The lack of self awareness displayed by unionism in general and JD in particular never fails to make me laugh.
I know I'll regret asking but go on, what was said?
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 17, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on September 17, 2021, 09:56:47 AM
Congrats to Good Morning Ulster on a fine party political broadcast on behalf of the DUP. The lack of self awareness displayed by unionism in general and JD in particular never fails to make me laugh.
I know I'll regret asking but go on, what was said?
I haven't the motivation to trot it all out but sure, lack of respect for unionism etc...............