Antrim Football Thread

[Belfast GAA man]

Dunloy hurling the perfect example Flanker. 15 out of 30 SHC's. Amazing statistic.

From small acorns....

in Ulster its much easier to excel in Hurling not football - them boys all pay Mageean no doubt

[johnnycool]

Dunloy hurling the perfect example Flanker. 15 out of 30 SHC's. Amazing statistic.

From small acorns....

in Ulster its much easier to excel in Hurling not football - them boys all pay Mageean no doubt

how so?

When you talk about the success of Dunloy you need to mention they got to two AI club finals, really had SMB for the beating on a terrible day and were one of the top teams in Ireland and that's with them geographically isolated from the hurling hotbeds in Munster and Leinster.

There's not the same geographical issues in relation to football, FFS the current AI champions are an hours drive down the road.

[Belfast GAA man]

I mean its much easier for a Belfast or Antrim school to do well in hurling than football as there isn't a massive amount of hurling outside Antrim and Down in Ulster Colleges - have you a chip on your hurl?
harder for the school to knuckle down and train hard to be competitve in schools football

[Kickham csc]

What is the critical question we are trying to answer? Is it about improving the quality of club standards or is it about making the county teams really competitive again.

If its the county, we need to look at what successful counties are doing and create a competitive plan to challenge them at EVERY level. My mind boggles at the down playing of schools and colleges. It's been the corner stone for a lot of county's strategies for youth development. Every county in Ulster is already driving club standards in a systematic program, if we let the clubs work in isolation, in 10 years time we will still be in the same conversation. And if this Option B gets approved, It will be near impossible to break into the top table going forward

From the colleges point of view, couple of examples,
Tyrone -  St Pat's Dungannon, St Pats Armagh and Omagh's rise in the late 90's early 00's helped feed new young talent for Tyrone's All Irelands run,
Derry  -Maghera's influence on Derry's underage teams in the 80's leading to the All Ireland 1993 (something like 20 of the squad were ex pupils). The Derry hurling breakthrough, 8-10 of the starting line-up was ex Maghera (Slaughneil were a laughing stock at the time and CO McEldowney and the Cassidy's made names for themselves in the Mageenan)
Down - Abbey, Colmans

Hurling
Kilkenny - St Kieran's (the talk about the tradition of the school providing an endless supply of hurlers with All Ireland experience to the county minors for generations)
Clare - St. Flannan's, Ennis

If we want to look at club structures, with the focus on club improvements raising all standards, then you could start looking at Derry - in the past 30 years,
Senior Club All Ireland - 2 All Irelands with a further 3 finalists.
Ulster Senior -Derry clubs have won 10 ulster club titles (6 different clubs),  5 beaten finalists
Ulster Minor Club - In the St Paul completion,  17 wins - (9 different clubs) 5 beaten finalists

Then ask yourself, is the success at underage all down to the clubs themselves, or is there more to it

[bannside]

Kickhams I haven't seen anybody downplaying how great it would be to have our schools being competitive in Grade A Ulster Colleges Football. The reality is....can you really see that happening, and if so how?

It hasn't happened for decades, how exactly do you see it happening now, when the dedication and energy needed to be competitive is higher than ever?

As I said previously, go win a couple of Grade Bs first.

Step back and look at the likes of St Pat's Maghera. Every year they get the cream of young talent from a dozen clubs including Lavey Bellaghy Slaughtneil Glen Ballinascreen Newbridge Castledawson Kilrea Dungiven plus others as well as from a few football families from Creggan Toome Portglenone Moneyglass etc.

Every one will have basic skills intact and go in with ambition of making their yeargroup squad. The biggest headache for teachers is who to leave out!

Now what part of that do you see happening in an Antrim school anytime soon?

I'd love it to happen, but sometimes you need to take a reality pill.

Let's build clubs up to far better standard and rising tide will lift all boats. Forget the pie in the sky stuff.

[Sportacus]

To be fair Bannside, several posters have been downplaying MacRory, calling it a "quick fix" etc.  All we're trying to say is it's a significant missing piece of the jigsaw.  Clubs knocking their pan in is essential also and always the foundation, but it has been weird seeing the comments here about MacRory - maybe it's a mindset.

[bannside]

For Antrim schools to get to the standard that they would even be accepted into the Grade A competitions would be almost totally dictated by the quality of player that the surrounding clubs are sending in.

Which takes us back to where it all needs to start.....half a dozen feeder clubs getting on top of their juvenile development at club under 6 or 7 level.

I can't see us closing the gap any other way.

[bannside]

Another case study. Around  early eighties Ballinderry Shamrocks got suspended from adult competition due to poor discipline. The entire club senior panel was detailed for a 2 years to get involved with their juveniles and rebuild club from bottom up.

The result was that a generation of Ballinderry footballers were kingpins of Derry and Ulster football, resulting in winning the All Ireland club title in 2002.

From a middling team with poor discipline to the best football team in Ireland. That's quite a journey.

The only thing that changed was the mindset. Reset and put the work in.

[Flanker]

For Antrim schools to get to the standard that they would even be accepted into the Grade A competitions would be almost totally dictated by the quality of player that the surrounding clubs are sending in.

Which takes us back to where it all needs to start.....half a dozen feeder clubs getting on top of their juvenile development at club under 6 or 7 level.

I can't see us closing the gap any other way.

100% correct For anyone who has been on the juvenile circuit and has taken teams across the bann it is like day and night. The top Derry clubs wouldn't even take a friendly with the A teams in Antrim and if they did they would have there B team on before the first water break. The top Antrim teams would be lucky to win a game in Derry A juvenile  leagues. Antrim A is at best roughly equal to Derry B.  This is right down the age groups prior to any MacRory cup. The starting point would be to address the significant deficit in quality entering second level education. There is only one place this can be done. If you were in Dunloy @ 10am on a freezing cold Sunday morning in December you would see how it is done

[rogercasement]

Not so sure. I was at a primary school age blitz a few weeks ago where magherafelt brought their strongest to us, we also had naomh eanna and Randalstown. All the Antrim teams more than held their own, I know it might be isolated but still! I know we pulled one of our young teams out of go games and toured ulster playing strongest available and benefitted greatly. Find what works for your club and do it!

[Flanker]

Not so sure. I was at a primary school age blitz a few weeks ago where magherafelt brought their strongest to us, we also had naomh eanna and Randalstown. All the Antrim teams more than held their own, I know it might be isolated but still! I know we pulled one of our young teams out of go games and toured ulster playing strongest available and benefitted greatly. Find what works for your club and do it!

RC that is good to hear. In fairness my experiences would be just above primary school 12s,14s, 16's over a 10 - 15 year period. During that period the gap between Antrim & Derry juvenile teams was getting wider.... Hopefully that tide is turning and the gap closes

I did hear a few weeks back from a Rossa man that PG1 were competitive on the circuit. Have you not got a Magherafelt man putting input to the underage?

[JimStynes]

For Antrim schools to get to the standard that they would even be accepted into the Grade A competitions would be almost totally dictated by the quality of player that the surrounding clubs are sending in.

Which takes us back to where it all needs to start.....half a dozen feeder clubs getting on top of their juvenile development at club under 6 or 7 level.

I can't see us closing the gap any other way.

100% correct For anyone who has been on the juvenile circuit and has taken teams across the bann it is like day and night. The top Derry clubs wouldn't even take a friendly with the A teams in Antrim and if they did they would have there B team on before the first water break. The top Antrim teams would be lucky to win a game in Derry A juvenile  leagues. Antrim A is at best roughly equal to Derry B.  This is right down the age groups prior to any MacRory cup. The starting point would be to address the significant deficit in quality entering second level education. There is only one place this can be done. If you were in Dunloy @ 10am on a freezing cold Sunday morning in December you would see how it is done

Aghagallon regularly beat the strong Armagh teams. We are invited to most the local competitions and we would always be considered to be one of the stronger underage teams and we are always one of the main representatives on the St. Ronan's teams. So unless the Derry underage are much better than Armagh I'm not sure I quite believe that. Apart from the odd exceptional team, the good Antrim teams would compete with the other counties good teams. It's just there are more good teams in the other counties. The Magheras and Magherafelts always have a good scattering of Antrim men on their teams too. One thing I do think is badly missing is a strong primary school competition. The Armagh primary school league is a lot better organised than the Antrim one.

[rogercasement]

Not so sure. I was at a primary school age blitz a few weeks ago where magherafelt brought their strongest to us, we also had naomh eanna and Randalstown. All the Antrim teams more than held their own, I know it might be isolated but still! I know we pulled one of our young teams out of go games and toured ulster playing strongest available and benefitted greatly. Find what works for your club and do it!

RC that is good to hear. In fairness my experiences would be just above primary school 12s,14s, 16's over a 10 - 15 year period. During that period the gap between Antrim & Derry juvenile teams was getting wider.... Hopefully that tide is turning and the gap closes

I did hear a few weeks back from a Rossa man that PG1 were competitive on the circuit. Have you not got a Magherafelt man putting input to the underage?

That's the seniors

[Flanker]

Not so sure. I was at a primary school age blitz a few weeks ago where magherafelt brought their strongest to us, we also had naomh eanna and Randalstown. All the Antrim teams more than held their own, I know it might be isolated but still! I know we pulled one of our young teams out of go games and toured ulster playing strongest available and benefitted greatly. Find what works for your club and do it!

RC that is good to hear. In fairness my experiences would be just above primary school 12s,14s, 16's over a 10 - 15 year period. During that period the gap between Antrim & Derry juvenile teams was getting wider.... Hopefully that tide is turning and the gap closes

I did hear a few weeks back from a Rossa man that PG1 were competitive on the circuit. Have you not got a Magherafelt man putting input to the underage?

That's the seniors

Is there not another with input to the juvenile setup.

I was very impressed when I heard

[rogercasement]

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