GAA Discussion Paper

[LilySavage]

There are only 30 games at U21 level. No league, no provincial backdoor, no AI quarter finals , no London, NY.. 10 in Leinster, 8 in Ulster, 5 Munster, 4 in Connacht and 3 in the AI series. Getting rid of this, which is one of the best competitions within the GAA , would be madness. Maybe they should take a look at fixtures and why Portlaoise play back to back and why Waterford championship final is only on this Friday and the winners have to play following day in Munster. (Could they not even wait till Sunday!)
For most counties who hav an unsuccessful senior team, the U21s can give the whole county a boost with a decent run and provides some hope for future days. Also, its an honour to make your country u21 team. Taking all this away to eliminate 30 games is not the answer.

[AZOffaly]

I agree Lily, and it is an important stepping stone with regard to development as well. It's an awful big step from U17 to Senior.

[Kickham csc]

How many feckin' reports, to always come out with the same bs conclusions.

The solution is soooo feckin' easy it's a joke. In my mind they need to do something like the following

1 -Year divided up into playing seasons
     a) Club- (3-4 months priority)
     b) Intercounty (3-4 months priority)
     c) Schools and colleges  (3-4 months priority)

2 - Schedule games in an efficient manor, for example
     a) Club teams - Pick a day to play U-8 - U14 games - Play blitz's or league, doesn't matter, (for example; Friday Nights, Saturday mornings) then play the games U8 first, then U10 etc. This frees up the rest of the week for quality coaching
b) School competitions to be played during the same period (e.g. Dalton, Corn na Nog, Ranafast and MacRory played on the same day (just like schools rugby) One school plays the other in all competitions thus stopping lads playing for more than two teams) The atmosphere would be fantastic.
c) same with inter-county, senior, U21, U18 Junior, all played in the same period- forces counties to make squad decisions
d) league and championship to be run concurrently. No separate League and championship campaign, (or scrap 2nd rate provincial championships, and  condense championship

3) Club competitions can overlap inter-county and school competitions, but you can't play players who are on inter county / school teams (this actually stops burn out)

This might not be the complete answer, but in principle, overlapping competitions need to stop

[AZOffaly]

Again I'll throw in the hurling question. What do you do with club players who play both hurling and football?

[Kickham csc]

Forgot one thing,

Eliminate development squads

Use the school system as development squads, or develop development schools for players of all abilities for clubs in a certain area and pick a development selection to play

At the moment, you can have a kid, playing three games in one week, and a couple of training sessions.

The week should be majority training, and one day of games

[AZOffaly]

Forgot one thing,

Eliminate development squads

Use the school system as development squads, or develop development schools for players of all abilities for clubs in a certain area and pick a development selection to play

At the moment, you can have a kid, playing three games in one week, and a couple of training sessions.

The week should be majority training, and one day of games

Can't agree with that, but I'm selfish In all seriousness, the Development Squads do serve a purpose, so I wouldn't be removing them. Your regional development squads might be a runner.

[Kickham csc]

Again I'll throw in the hurling question. What do you do with club players who play both hurling and football?

That's the truly hard question,

for me one solution is making football a autumn / winter sport and hurling a  spring summer sport
or make the club season last 6 months, and alternate the hurling football weekends in regards to priority

or for adults, football games are Sunday's, hurling games are Friday night etc

No easy solution, but the GAA needs to come up with a proposal some about this particular issue.

Getting rid of U-21 football, JHC, are they for real

[johnneycool]

6th Sam, you're best sending that on to someone that might be able to table it at a high level. Logical approach.

Show it to Sean O'G on Thursday night when Down clubs are to vote whether to be the guinea pigs for the odd years trial!!

JohnnyCool can u see a similar system working for Hurling , where there is a major problem with inconsistent fixturing. If you had blocks of intercounty fixtures and club fixtures, would there be scope for an extended ulster club championship in autumn . The AI club series is the one area in which ulster teams (including your own club) have been very competitive at the very top. Imagine if the 3 Ards clubs , and say Derry's top 3, and Antrims top 6, competed in an extended Ulster club championship in the autumn , it could make for a really attractive competition, and prepare the eventual Ulster club champions for a tilt at an allIreland A title that they would be well capable of winning. During the intercounty block of fixtures , there could be time to run off a competitive NHL div 2 competition in the spring , with the winners rewarded with entry to the AllIreland proper and the rest playing chrissy ring and ulster championship in the summer. During this intercounty block your club matches go ahead without county players allowing u to blood players for your Down And Ulster club campaigns

Ironically IMO there's no hurler in Down ever likely to suffer from burn out as they just don't get enough fixtures for that.
The Christy Ring games are played on saturdays which means our lads can play club senior in Antrim the next day, its the best of a bad lot TBH, but its been like that for years and we just couldn't field without the 5 or 6 county lads.

The current Down senior hurling championship consists of two knock out games, one semi-final and then the final, surely there's some way of sprucing it up considering the pretty decent system in place for the Down senior football championship!!

As for juvenile fixtures our U16's didn't play one game through most of the whole summer months of July and August. There were a few too old for U14 and a bit lacking at minor who only got the odd run out for the minors when management squeezed them in, now there's a reason for a youngster giving up the sport if there ever was one!

Burn out is not the issue for attrition rates in Down hurling, if anything its the opposite!

[AZOffaly]

That's what I said elsewhere. Burn Out is a bit of a misnomer for the majority of players. The underlying reasons may be the same (poor calendaring etc) but the average club player is under cooked in terms of regular games, while the elite players are being burned out due to their commitments.

I would encourage players at club level, and underage, to play both games, but I would reduce the number of age groups they can play in. At county level minors don't play U21. U21s don't play senior. If you do step up a grade, you are immediately ineligible for the grade below. You should be able to run all 3 of those competitions side by side in one code. Same rule apply for hurling.

But the calendar has to be right to ensure regular games for the club players in both. That's why, as someone else said earlier, a one size fits all model will not work, and it's why I am suspicious of proposals that only mention Football, or only mention the Inter County calendar.

What should probably happen is Central Council, or Congress, adopt a formal inter county calendar, which leaves space for club games in both codes, across all age groups and grades, and across both codes. This calendar should have the various eligibility rules embedded in it, as above. This calendar should also contain the Inter Provincial Club Championships.

That then would at least give a framework to each county for them to play their club fixtures, and they should operate within the rules regarding playing above your age which are already there.

I think the college competitions should be downgraded or else fit into the inter county schedule.

Each county then should submit their master schedule for the start of the year, and a committee should review the 32 calendars (or more if we include Britain and the US), and ensure they are meeting explicit criteria regarding regular club games, league and championship, in accordance with the slots laid out in the inter county calendars.

[Canalman]

Reduce panel sizes. Gone way beyond a joke now.

Saw a picture of the Ballyboden panel at the county final in the Herald. 36 (yes I counted them) players togged out. Not picking on BBSE by the way, most club panels photographed at county finals have close to 30 players.

Max of say  24 on a match day panel.

[AZOffaly]

That's hard to do Canalman. Most of the lads on that panel would be training all year with the club team, and playing league games in the muck and shite. They may not get near a game in a championship final, but you'd be hard hearted to deny them their day in the sun.

[tiempo]

Reduce panel sizes. Gone way beyond a joke now.

Saw a picture of the Ballyboden panel at the county final in the Herald. 36 (yes I counted them) players togged out. Not picking on BBSE by the way, most club panels photographed at county finals have close to 30 players.

Max of say  24 on a match day panel.

Tyrone togged out 30+ to play Louth in the qualifiers in 2013, beyond a joke, the rule for county has since been changed, i don't think it should be changed for club though

[AZOffaly]

Yeah, County you can only name 26 on match day.

[Zulu]

The dual club player is challenging alright but I'd differ from 6th Sam insofar as I'd probably suggest club action in one continuos block and IC in another. Strong (club) dual counties would just have to set competition parameters that account for getting all their games played within the block for clubs. So for example, a football only county might have 14 weeks of football for their clubs while dual ones might have to make groups smaller and have 7 hurling and 7 football. To my mind, any sports season should provide players with enough games and at the moment most IC players don't get that and most club players get a disjointed season.

There is no reason the IC year couldn't be played in June, July, August, September and October and the club season in November, January, February, March, April and May (or some variation of that) but that would give the IC scene 16 to 20 weeks and the clubs 20-24 weeks. Some people object to playing club games in the winter but we live in Ireland so we can't squeeze everything into the 2 good weeks we get each year. With better pitches and more floodlighted venues there is no reason we couldn't have a vibrant club GAA scene in the winter and finals would be played in April and May which are traditionally two of the best months.

[AZOffaly]

I agree with that Zulu, but you would need some sort of off season as well.

Another factor on elite player burn out, which is very hard for the GAA to control, is that your elite young player is going to be elite across several sports, never mind the hurling v football debate. In an U14 development squad, for example, you will absolutely have players on Kennedy Cup Soccer, rugby academies, etc. As they age, they tend to focus on one sport over another, but at the younger ages, you are certainly challenged in that area, as anyone who tries to organise a challenge match at a weekend for a development squad can attest.